>> HI. MY NAME IS KARIN LORE. I HAVE MY BASE AT THE KAROLINSKA INSTITUTE IN STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN. I HAVE AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE IN MICROBIOLOGY AND MOLECULAR BIOLOGY AND MY Ph.D. AT THE KAROLINSKA IN IMMUNOLOGY. AFTER I DID MY POST-DOCTORAL TRAINING IN BUILDING 40 THE VACCINE CENTER AND I DID MY POST-DOC FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN FOUR YEARS. BUT IN MY THIRD YEAR, I STARTED TO APPLY FOR ASSISTANT SALARY GRANTS AND IN SWEDEN WE HAVE THIS TRADITIONAL FIVE YEARS RULE WHICH MEANS THAT YOU ARE ONLY ELIGIBLE OF APPLYING WITHIN FIVE YEARS AFTER YOUR Ph.D. DEFENSE WHICH PUT YOU ON A QUITE TIEG AGENDA TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. AND ALSO I WAS AIMING TO GO BACK TO THE KAROLINSKA INSTITUTE AND THERE IS NO TENURE TRACK SYSTEM THERE. SO THERE'S NO ASSISTANT PROFESSORSHIP POSITIONS THAT YOU CAN APPLY FOR. YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO COME WITH YOUR OWN FUNDING THAT COVERS YOUR OWN VAIL AND YOUR -- AVAILABILITY AND YOUR OWN ACTIVITIES. SO THAT'S HOW THE SYSTEM IS SET UP IN SWEDEN. SO WITH THIS ASSISTANT PROFESSOR SALARY GRANT FROM THE SWEDISH RESEARCH COUNCIL, I DEFERRED IT A YEAR SO I COULD STAY FOR FOUR YEARS HERE BECAUSE I FELT THAT I HAD TO FINISH UP MY PROJECTS HERE AND ALSO AS I SAID YOU'RE QUITE INEXPERIENCED SINCE YOU HAVE TO GET STARTING THE APPLY FOR THOSE GRANTS SO I LIKE TO HAVE THAT FOURTH YEAR. AT CHRISTMAS TIME DURING 2005 I MOVED BACK TO SWEDEN AND STARTED TO BUILD UP MY OWN RESEARCH GROUP SO I BASICALLY RUN MY OWN GROUP FOR FIVE YEARS NOW AND MY TWO FIRST Ph.D. STUDENTS HAVE JUST GRADUATED. I HAVE TWO MORE AND A POST-DOC AND USUALLY A TEMPORARY PERSON IN MY GROUP. MY FUNDING COMES FROM EXTERNAL SOURCES BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT WORKS BASICALLY IN SWEDEN. THERE ARE SOME Ph.D. SALARY CONTRIBUTIONS YOU CAN GET FROM THE INSTITUTE BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU HAVE TO GET BY THE EXTERNAL FUNDS. MOST OF THEM, I HAVE GOT ONE GRANT IN INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION FROM A U.S. FOUNDATION THAT MOST OF THE GRANTS ARE FROM SWEDISH SOURCES, MANY FROM FOUNDATIONS THAT GIVE GRANTS TO YOUNG INVESTIGATORS. SO IN A WAY YOU'RE COMPETING WITH A GROUP THAT ARE IN YOUR POSITION WHICH IS GOOD I THINK. THE REASON I'M HERE IS I APPLIED TO ONE OF THOSE MARY CURIE FELLOWSHIPS FOR YOUNG INVESTIGATORS. SO I HAVE CONTINUED TO KEEP A COLLABORATION WITH MY NIH INVESTIGATOR AND A FEW OF THE PIs AT THE VACCINE RESEARCH CENTER AND SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN CO-SUPERVISORS OF THE Ph.D. STUDENTS THAT I HAVE HAD. I MAINTAIN THAT LINK AND I HAVE BEEN BACK EVERY YEAR AND WORKED FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS. -- COUPLE OF WEEKS. I APPLIED FOR THIS EU MARY CURRY FELLOWSHIP TO DO A LONGER RELOCATION AND STAY HERE FOR A WHILE AND BRING PEOPLE IN MY GROUP HERE. WE'RE NOW WORKING ON NON-HUMAN PRIMATE STUDIES THAT WE COULDN'T DO AT THE KAROLINSKA INSTITUTE WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE RESOURCES WE HAVE THERE. SO I HOPE THAT I CAN CONTRIBUTE INFORMATION, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THEM. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GREG, HOW -- WHAT IS YOUR BACKGROUND AND HOW DID YOU END UP IN KING'S COLLEGE? >> HI, EVERYBODY. CAN YOU HEAR ME? >> OKAY. SO I'M ORIGINALLY FROM POLAND AND I DID MY MEDICAL DEGREE IN UNIVERSITY MEDICAL UNIVERSITY, I STARTED MY CAREER AS CLINICAL FELLOW AND THEN GOT INTO RESEARCH AND I DID MY Ph.D. AT THE SANE UNIVERSITY IN IMMUNOLOGY. AFTER A WHILE I MOVED TO NIH, I WAS POST-DOC AT CRITICAL CARE MEDICINE DEPARTMENT WORKING WITH DR. SHAREHEIMER FOR FIVE YEARS AND I ENJOYED THAT TIME AT THE NIH AND ROUGHLY ONE YEAR BEFORE THE END OF MY STAY I STARTED TO LOOK FOR INDEPENDENT POSITION. SO I REALLY STARTED TO LOOK FOR DIFFERENT OPTIONS. AND FINALLY I GOT TO TWO OF THEM SO ONE I GOT AN OFFER FROM KINGS COLLEGE LONDON, ANOTHER ONE WAS IN CANADA UNIVERSITY OF SHARE BLEET BROOK AND THE WAY HOW I STARTED WAS QUITE SIMPLE. WHAT I THINK THE CRITICAL POINT WHEN YOU START LOOKING FOR A JOB IS TO HAVE CONDUCT. THE MORE PEOPLE YOU KNOW, THE MORE YOU ARE KNOWN BY OTHERS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO FIND A GOOD POSITION. SO I SENT AN EMAIL TO PEOPLE I KNEW, MOSTLY PIs OR HEAD OF DEPARTMENTS. IN AREA OF MY INTEREST. SO THE POINT I WANTED TO SHOW IS THAT I HAVE SOME SKILLS AND I KNOW MAYBE SOMETHING THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T KNOW AND IF I STICK TO THE PICTURE OF A DOLLAR GROUP THEN THERE IS A BIG CHANCE THAT THEY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN HAVING ME. IN LONDON I CONTACTED PROFESSOR RUE AND HE -- THIS IS A GRANT FUNDED BY MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL IN THE UK. I OWE THIS GRANT BUT MEANTIME THERE WAS THE OPENING FOR THE FULL ACADEMIC POSITION OF LECTURE, LECTURE IN THE UK SOMETHING LIKE ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE U.S. AND I CAN HEAR AND I WANTED -- I GOT THE FEW POSITION BEFORE I GOT THE CAREER DEVELOPMENT. THEN ACTUALLY I DID SUCCEED IN THIS CAREER DEVELOPMENT AWARD AND I WROTE A FEW MORE GRANT APPLICATIONS. TWO YEARS AGO I GOT ANOTHER GRANT, IT'S CALLED NEW INVESTIGATOR RESEARCH GRANT FROM MRC AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT STARTED MY CAREER, INDEPENDENT CAREER HERE. SO THIS IS RESEARCH FOR POST-DOC AND FOR ALL OTHER THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED. SO AT THE MOMENT, I WORK AS INVESTIGATOR AT THE MRC CENTER HERE. I HAVE A SMALL GROUP, ONE POST-DOC, ONE HD STUDENT AND TWO MSC STUDENTS. SO WHAT I COULD SUGGEST FOR ANYBODY AT SIMILAR STAGE OF CAREER, IT'S TO TRY TO FIND A STRONGEST POINT THAT YOU HAVE AND NAME IT AND TRY TO IDENTIFY GROUPS, PEOPLE THAT COULD BE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE. IT'S I THINK THE OPPORTUNITIES THERE ARE -- AND IF YOU GO TO CONFERENCES, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO TO SMALL CONFERENCES ON A FOCUSED AREA. THIS IS THE PLACE YOU CAN REALLY TALK TO PEOPLE, GET THEM, KNOW EACH OTHER AND HAVE SOME KIND OF VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIPS AND IT HELPS A LOT AFTERWARDS. I WILL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TO JOIN THIS PANEL BUT I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH A DISCLAIMER THAT I'M DEFINITELY THE MOST JUNIOR PANELIST THERE AND I'M STILL ON MY JOB SEARCH THOUGH I STARTED ABOUT A YEAR AGO. AND I THINK PROBABLY ONLY ONES WE'RE LOOKING INTO WHAT MANY PEOPLE CALL ALTERNATIVE CAREER. SO A LITTLE BIT TO MY BACKGROUND, I GREW UP IN SWITZERLAND THAT'S WHERE I DID MY UNDERGRAD IN MOLECULAR BIOLOGY AND FOR MY I MOVED TO THE FRENCH SPEAKING PART OF SWITZERLAND TO JOIN LAB OF AT THE UNIVERSITY OF GENEVA AT THE TIME WHERE I HAD FIVE WONDERFUL YEARS WORKING ON ORGANIZATION AND DYNAMICS OF CHROMATIN WITHIN THE NUCLEUS. WITH THAT BACKGROUND I WAS LOOKING FOR POST-DOC IN THE U.S. AND CAME HERE TO ROCK FELL LEAR UNIVERSITY WHERE I JOINED THE LAB OF AND HAVE THE INCREDIBLE FREEDOM TO DO WHATEVER I WANTED TO DO TO FOLLOW MY INTERESTS AND INTUITION AND SET UP THE PROJECT ON REGULATION OF KNEW CLEA OWE TIDES IN YEAST. I WAS SUCCESSFUL AFTER TWO YEARS I HAD MY FIRST PUBLICATION AND SINCE THEN I ALSO FOUND -- HIT A COUPLE OF DEAD END ROADS AND WAS LOOKING INTO WHAT I WANT TO DO WHEN I GO BACK TO -- EVENTUALLY BACK TO SWITZERLAND WHERE MY FAMILY IS FROM AND THAT'S WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO END UP AT THE END. SO BEING VERY OPPORTUNISTIC AT THE BEING WHEN CHOOSING MY POST-DOC ALLOWED ME TO FOLLOW THE PASSION. BUT I ALSO AT ONE POINT AFTER FOUR AND A HALF YEARS I SAT DOWN AND ASKED A COUPLE OF HONEST QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE CAREER AND THE CHANCE OF GETTING ONE OR THE OTHER AND THESE QUESTIONS WERE KIND OF -- WHAT DID THEY REALLY TAKE TO BE AN INDEPENDENT GROUP LEADER IN SWITZERLAND IN TERMS OF NUMBER OF PUBLICATIONS AS POST-DOC IN TERMS OF AGE, IN TERMS OF RESEARCH SUBJECTS AND EXPERTISE. SO THE QUESTION IS MORE HOW DO I COMPARE MYSELF TO THOSE SUCCESSFULLY LAND AD JOB BRIEFLY IN SWITZERLAND, MEANING A JUNIOR GROUP LEADER. TO OTHER QUESTIONS I ASK MYSELF WHICH ASPECT OF THE WORK DO I LIKE MOST AND WIDOW I LIKE LEAST. THE LAST QUESTION WAS MORE -- SORRY. THERE'S MORE WITH THE SKILLS AND CONFIDENCE AND ALSO INTEREST I HAVE WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO FURTHER DEVELOP. FOR ME ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS AND DOING A LITTLE LOOK INTO IT CAME DOWN THAT FOR AN ACADEMIC JOB I DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PUBLICATIONS AND I HAVE CLOSE TO BEING TOO OLD IN ORDER TO START AN ACADEMIC INDEPENDENT CAREER IN SWITZERLAND. I NOW STARTED TO FOCUS ON THREE, MAYBE QUITE DIFFERENT CAREER PATHS AND I TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OTHER POSSIBILITIES FOR ME ALONG THOSE PARTS. SO THERE ARE QUITE DIFFERENT BUT THEY ALL RESPECT THE OUTCOMES TO QUESTIONS I ASK MYSELF IN THE FIRST PLACE WHICH I JUST TOLD YOU. SO THE FIRST IDEA OR FIRST GROUP OF CAREERS WILL BE AN ACADEMIC JOB BUT NOT AS A PRINCIPLE INVESTIGATOR BUT MORE OF A STAFF SCIENTIST OR FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK EXPERIENCE IN MICROSCOPY SO RUNNING THE MICROSCOPY AT A UNIVERSITY IS SOMETHING I'M GOOD AT AND I LIKE THE DO A LOT. THE INTERACTIONS WITH THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND INTERACTIONS WITHIN SCIENTISTS AND TECHNICAL SPECIALISTS. THE SECOND KIND OF JOB I'M LOOKING INTO RIGHT NOW PUBLIC SECTOR IN SCIENCE MANAGEMENT OR IN SCIENCE POLICY FOR EXAMPLE SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW OR GRANT MANAGEMENT AGENCY OR MORE ADMINISTRATIVE PART OF A UNIVERSITY. THE LAST ACTION IS MORE REALLY GEARED TOWARDS INDUSTRY WITH MY BACKGROUND OVER TEN YEARS OF RESEARCH IN YEAST AND FOCUSING MICROBIAL BIOTECHNOLOGY AND MAYBE OFFER MICROSCOPY, HIGH CONTENT SCREENING JOBS. SO SINCE I STARTED LOOKING FOR THESE JOBS I HAVE BEEN APPLYING FOR 35 POSITIONS. THAT RESULTED IN THREE INTERVIEWS IN ACADEMIC SETTING, THREE IN PHARMA OR BIOTECH AND TWO INTERVIEWS IN THE FIELD OF SCIENCE MANAGEMENT AND SCIENCE POLICY. SO FAR I STILL DON'T HAVE A JOB YET AND THEREFORE I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WHAT IS TAKE HOME POINTS FROM MY JOB SO FAR WITH YOU AND I WOULD LIKE TO FIRST INTO GENERAL POINTS AND THAT IS BE HONEST IN YOUR SELF-ASSESSMENT. IF YOU DON'T HAVE NATURE PUBLICATION AFTER FIVE YEARS DON'T THINK YOU'LL GET INTO 6TH YEAR. REACH OUT TO PEOPLE TO LOOK FOR ADVOCATES, SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS YOU, WHO KNOWS YOUR WORK. FOR THE ACADEMIC JOB SEARCH IT IS IMPORTANT TO START THINKING ABOUT YOUR RETURN THE DAY YOU LEAVE FOR YOUR POST-DOC ABROAD. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT NOT ONLY TO BE GOOD BUT TO BE CONNECTED. FOR ALTERNATIVE CAREERS I CAN SAY WELL BE PERSISTENT, BE POSITIVE AND REACH OUT TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. >> NOT AT ALL. IT'S AN OPEN COMPETITION. I WOULDN'T SAY YOU HAVE OBVIOUS BENEFITS OF BEING SWEET. YOU GET IN IF YOU'RE GOOD. IT'S ALL BASED ON YOUR MERIT. YOUR EVERY DAY LIFE YOU CAN ACTIVELY GET BYE-BYE JUST SPEAKING ENGLISH. ALL THE SEMINARS, ALL THE LAB MEETINGS AND JOURNAL CLUBS ARE IN ENGLISH. AND THERE ARE MANY FOREIGN PC STUDENTS STUDENTS IN POST-DOCS SO I WOULD SAY IT'S A GENERAL WELCOMING ATTITUDE TO FOREIGNERS. SO I DEFINITELY ENCOURAGE YOU TO APPLY. IF YOU FIND SOMETHING THERE. YOU WOULD NOT BE THE ONLY FOREIGNER THERE, ABSOLUTELY NOT. >> YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY THE HOST INSTITUTION WHEN YOU APPLY. USUALLY THERE'S SOME FLEXIBILITY THERE IF YOU WOULD GET THE GRANT AND REALLY WOULD LIKE TO GO TO ANOTHER PLACE BUT I THINK YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. IN MY CASE AND IN ALL OF MY GROUP LEADER COLLEAGUES CASE SO THAT YOU GET A SIGNATURE THAT YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME IF YOU COME WITH YOUR FUNDING. IT'S NOT LIKE THEY SIGN YOU ON UNLESS YOU COME WITH YOUR PACKAGE. THAT'S HOW IT WORKS IN SWEDEN AT LEAST. >> >> IT WORKS QUITE SIMILAR IN THE UK. I WAS VERY LUCKY THAT THERE WAS THE OPENING FOR THE ACADEMIC POSITION SEPARATELY FROM THE GRANT. BUT MY FIRST STEP WAS REALLY TO IDENTIFY THE -- IDENTIFY A PLACE WHERE I COULD BE WANTED. SO I FOUND REALLY A PERSON WHO FIRST ENCOURAGED ME TO WRITE A GRANT APPLICATION FOR THIS CAREER DEVELOPMENT. THE ADVANTAGE IF YOU GET THIS GRANT, YOU CAN HAVE IT IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTITUTION WHEN YOU APPLY TO IT. BUT YOU CAN MOVE TO ANOTHER ONE AS WELL IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PLACE. BUT THE OTHER ARGUMENT, WHEN YOU APPLY FOR THIS KIND OF EARLY GRANT, YOU NEED SOME PRELIMINARY DATA. YOU NEED SOME STRONG APPLICATION. AND TO HAVE IT YOU -- WHEN YOU WORK AS A POST DOC IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET ADDITIONAL DATA OR CREATE DATA THAT COULD BE A BACKGROUND FOR YOUR APPLICATION SO IT HELPS IF YOU KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT YOU APPLY WITH, THEY CAN HELP YOU WRITING THIS KIND OF APPLICATION. OR THEY CAN EVEN PROVIDE YOU WITH PRELIMINARY DATA FOR IT. WITHOUT THAT IT'S REALLY VERY DIFFICULT TO GET MONEY. >> IN MY CASE IT WASN'T SO THAT YOU HAVE TO PRESENT PRELIMINARY DATA OF THE RESEARCH PLAN YOU'RE PRESENTING BUT IT'S GOOD TO AT LEAST PROVE IN SOME WAY THAT YOU HAVE -- I MEAN, THERE'S DISABILITY TO THIS PROJECT, YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF BACKGROUND EXPERTISE IN WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THE NEXT YEARS. IN ONE WAY, IF YOU'RE A JUNIOR AND WANT TO GET STARTED, IT'S TO COLLABORATE. SO MANY IN MY CASE, MY POST-DOC SUPERVISOR IS A COLLABORATOR MANY ON MY PROJECTS ON OTHER NIH INVESTIGATORS. I THINK NOT NECESSARILY THAT THEY ARE INVOLVED THAT MUCH BUT THEIR NAME CAN HELP YOU A LITTLE BIT ON THE WAY. AT LEAST THEY SUPPORT YOU AS A PERSON. WE BELIEVE IN HER, HIM AND WE THINK THIS FROM APOLOGETIC IS GOOD. SO I THINK THAT CAN ALSO -- THAT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE A COLLABORATIVE PERSON AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE BACKING YOU UP. (OFF MIC) (OFF MIC) >> YES, I THINK IT'S A VERY VALID QUESTION AND UP TO TWO YEARS AGO IN THIS QUALITY OF THE HOST INSTITUTION PLAY THE ROLE IN THE APPLICATION REVIEW PROCESS. HOWEVER, IT WAS RECOGNIZED THAT IT SKEWED THE RESULTS SO THAT EVERYBODY WENT TO THE KINGS COLLEGE OR, YOU KNOW -- AND FROM LAST YEAR THIS IS NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. SO THE QUALITY OF THE PROPOSAL IS WHAT IS IN (INAUDIBLE). >> THAT'S IN THE -- RELY ON YOUR CV, IT HAS TO BE A STRONG CV, YOUR INDEPENDENT PUBLICATION IS AN IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTE, ASSET. BUT ALSO THE PROPOSAL, AGAIN, NEEDS TO BE A BREAK THROUGH FRONTIER TYPE OF RESEARCH, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A MULTI-DISCIPLINARY APPROACHES AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY -- I MEAN THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. WHEN YOU GO ONLINE YOU CAN SEE WHAT PROJECTS WERE FUNDED IN THE PAST YEARS. THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA. (OFF MIC) >> AFTER I STARTED MY POST-DOC I GOT INVITED ON A COUPLE OF SWISS INSTITUTIONS WHEN I WENT TO HOME STATE AND TALKED TO PEOPLE THERE. AND IT'S REALLY THAT -- IF YOU'RE HIRED AT THAT TIME JUNIOR GROUP LEADER YOU'RE HIRED FOR POTENTIAL TO BE EXTREMELY GOOD SCIENTIST. THEY DON'T WANT JUST A SOLID SCIENTIST, THEY JUST WANT SOMEBODY WHETHER HAS POTENTIAL TO WENT THE NOBEL PRIZE AND THE BEST INDICATOR FOR THAT ARE VERY GOOD POST-DOCTORAL PUBLICATIONS ALREADY AT THAT POINT RATHER THAN SOMEBODY WHO -- REALLY WANT AN OUTSTANDING PERSON ON PAPER BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY THING THEY CAN REALLY EVALUATE. >> I HAD A GOOD PUBLICATION LIST BUT I DON'T THINK I HAVE NOBEL PRIZE THOUGH I'M SWEDE I DON'T -- YEAH, I HAVE CONNECTIONS AND YOU GET FAR BY CONNECTIONS. BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY DO THE JOB FOR YOU. YOU HAVE TO DO THE JOB AND YOU HAVE TO FORM YOUR EVERY DAY LIFE AND THE WAY YOU CAN GET BY. I THINK MAYBE THAT IS ONE MAJOR HURDLE, LIKE ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE PUT IN THE FORM, WHAT IS THE MAJOR HURDLE, IT'S YOURSELF THAT'S THE MAJOR HURDLE. THE FACT THAT YOU MAY BE ANALYZING YOURSELF A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH AND THE LACK OF SELF-CONFIDENCE CAN I DO THIS, DO I WANT TO DO THIS AND THIS IS JUST WAY TOO DIFFICULT. IT'S NOT GOOD TO BE IN THE OTHER DITCH EITHER AND BELIEVE THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CALL YOU AND OFFER YOU A SUPER DUPER JOB BECAUSE THAT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN EITHER. BUT I THINK THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO THIS. I THINK JUST THE FACT THAT YOU'RE SITTING IN THIS ROOM ALSO PUTS YOU AMONG WAY OVER THE TOP 50% JUST THE FACT THAT YOU'RE DOING A POST-DOC AT THE WORD LEADING INTERNATIONAL RESEARCH CENTER AND THE EXPOSURE AND EXPERIENCES AND THE CONNECTIONS. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED THE FIRST AUTHOR NATURE PAPER SCIENCE PAPER TO SURVIVE IN THIS BUSINESS BECAUSE THEN I THINK IT'S REALLY -- THEN I THINK WE HAVE PUSHED THE SYSTEM A LITTLE BIT TOO FAR. BUT I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THIS DISCOURAGEMENT THAT YOU CAN SEE. I DIDN'T APPLY FOR ERC GRANTS BECAUSE I FELT LIKE THERE WERE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE FROM SWEDEN WHO GET IT EVEN THOUGH I GET IN VERY HARD COMPETITION MY SALARY GRANT THAT'S A SUCCESS RATE. I THINK IT'S 24 POSITION AND AROUND 450 APPLICANTS SO IT'S REALLY TOUGH. BUT THE GRANT IS JUST WAY OUT OF MY LEAGUE. >> DON'T DISCOURAGE POTENTIAL APPLICANTS BECAUSE AGAIN, THE SUCCESS RATE OVERALL IS HIGHER THAN ON THE NIH GRANTS. SO THIS ARGUMENT HOWEVER YOU WANT THE MAKE IT. >> I JUST WANT TO SAY OF COURSE I WAS EXAGGERATING THE NEED OF AT LEAST ONE MAJOR PAIP -- NATURE PAPER IN ORDER TO GET A JOB PLUS FLUOROUP PAPERS BUT IT IS GOING THAT WAY AND THEY ARE JUST EXTREMELY LOTS OF POST-DOCS OUT THERE AND THERE ARE FEWER PI POSITIONS ALL AROUND THE WORLD. AND AS SOON AS YOU ADD GEOGRAPHICAL CONSTRICTION IT CAN BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO FIND THE JOB YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. SO -- AND THE SMALL OF THAT IS -- GREG FOR EXAMPLE APPLIED IN CANADA AND IN THE UK AND PROBABLY ALSO OTHER PLACES AND AT THE END HE TRANSFER. SO SOME PEOPLE WHETHER REALLY WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS MORE ON ONE GEOGRAPHICAL REGION THERE IS JUST MORE DIFFICULT AND MIGHT BE WORTHYING OTHER THINGS THAT ARE AS EQUALLY INTERESTING TO DO RATHER THAN ACADEMIC CAREER. ALSO JOBS WHICH YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED THE EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE ACQUIRED IN YOUR DOING YOUR GRADUATE STUDIES AND YOUR POST-DOCS AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ALTERNATIVE CAREERS ARE JUST ALTERNATIVE BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT AS GROUP LEADER, THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE. THERE ARE INTERESTING THINGS OUT THERE AND THESE THINGS MIGHT BE BETTER SUITED FOR YOU THAN A CLASSIC ACADEMIC CAREER.Ykm (OFF MIC) >> NO, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW IF I WOULD BE SITTING HERE IN FIVE YEARS BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE. NOW I'M ENTERING A PRETTY SENSITIVE PERIOD BECAUSE I CANNOT COMPETE ABOUT THESE YOUNG INVESTIGATOR GRANTS THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, THESE SMALLER GRANTS AIMED FOR YOUNG INVESTIGATORS BECAUSE I RECEIVED MANY OF THEM BUT NOW I'M NOT ELIGIBLE FOR APPLYING ANY MORE. THOUGH THEY ARE NOT THAT MUCH MONEY, IT ADDS UP IF YOU HAVE A HANDFUL OF THEM SO NOW I WOULD BE COMPETING WITH A BIG SHARKS AND THE SENIOR MERIT PEOPLE SO IT DEFINITELY DOESN'T STOP. (OFF MIC) >> I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS QUESTION MYSELF AND NOW I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANOTHER STRATEGY WOULD HAVE PUT ME IN. I THINK IT WORKS PRETTY WELL THE STRATEGY I HAD OR THE WAY IT WORKED OUT BUT WHAT IF I WAS LESS PARANOID OR, YOU KNOW, TOOK IT EASIER, LONGER VACATION, WOULD I BE IN THE SAME POSITION? I DON'T KNOW. SO IT'S HARD TO SAY. I MEAN, DEFINITELY I USED TO JOKE WITH MY POST-DOC COLLEAGUES AT THE TIME THAT WE WERE DRIVEN BY FEAR. WE'RE WORKING OUR WAY UP. WE JUST WANT TO SURVIVE. MAYBE THAT'S FEAR IS A GOOD FEAR IN A WAY BECAUSE IT PUSHES YOU. (OFF MIC) >> MAYBE. I'M QUITE -- VERY HAPPY WITH THE DA REAR I HAVE HAD SO FAR -- CAREER I HAVE HAD SO FAR AND HAVE FUN DOING THE RESEARCH I'M DOING AND DEVELOPING THE PROJECT. AND AS I SAID I WAS JUST REALLY DOING WHAT I LIKED DOING AND WHAT I DID BEST. TAKEN BACK A LITTLE BIT I MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE STRATEGIC IN THE CHOICE OF MY POST-DOCTORAL WORK, THAT THERE WILL BE A LITTLE MORE GEARED TOWARDS OTHER APPLICATIONS RATHER THAN EXTREMELY ACADEMIC BASIC SCIENCE CELL BIOLOGY QUESTION WHICH I'M TRYING RIGHT NOW. (OFF MIC) >> IF I DIDN'T GET THIS SWEDISH ASSISTANT PROFESSOR HIPPOGRANT I THINK THEN I WOULD HAVE DEFINITELY STARTED TO LOOK INTO IT.V#z I WAS FORTUNATE TO GET IT DURING MY THIRD YEAR POST DOC SO THAT I COULD DEFER IT A YEAR, SO I FELT QUITE RELAXED ON THAT POINT. AT LEAST THAT I HAD A JOB. I WAS HUMBLE WHILE WAITING. BUT I NEVER LOOKED INTO OTHER UNIVERSITIES HERE. SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW COMPETITIVE I WOULD HAVE BEEN IF IT'S MORE COMPETITIVE THAN IN SWEDEN. I THINK I GET THE FEELING HERE YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPERIENCED WHEN YOU START YOUR GROUP. BECAUSE SWEDEN HAS A SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO APPLY WITHIN FIVE YEARS, THAT ALSO PUSHES YOU TO START YOUR INDEPENDENT GROUP QUITE EARLY IN YOUR CAREER. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT STUFF IS NECESSARILY GOOD. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. >> I MUST SAY I CAN'T SPEAK FOR (INAUDIBLE) IN EUROPE. >> I CAN'T SPEAK FOR DIFFERENT UNIVERSITIES ACROSS EUROPE, HOW FAR I KNOW THAT THERE IS OVERALL A GREAT INTEREST IN HAVING CANDIDATES WITH U.S. EXPERIENCE. THERE IS A STRONG RECOGNITION THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE WORKING HERE IN THE U.S. COME BACK WITH STRONG SKILLS AND ALSO AS YOU KNOW I MENTIONED THE STRONG INTEREST IN COMBINING INNOVATION WITH SCIENCE. HERE IN THE U.S. WE HAVE A STRONG PUSH TO COMMERCIALIZE SCIENCE. THERE'S MANY PROGRAMS THAT TAKE SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES AND BRING THEM TO A MARKET SO THERE IS A STRONG INTEREST IN EUROPE TO FIND CANDIDATES WITH THIS KIND OF SKILLS, EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE. SO HAVING A U.S. -- EXPERIENCE WORKING IN THE U.S. IS A GREAT ASSET. >> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ONE SINGLE PERSON. I THINK THAT IT WASN'T NECESSARILY MY PI HERE BECAUSE HE'S NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE SYSTEM IN SWEDEN. I MEAN, HE WAS SUPPORTIVE BUT I CANNOT COUNT HIM AS THE MOST SUPPORTIVE PERSON. I THINK IT WAS EXTREMELY HELPFUL THAT I HAD -- I KNEW SOME PEOPLE THAT IN SWEDEN THAT WERE SUCCESSFUL AND HAD DONE THIS BEFORE. EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T KNOW THEM WELL, I STILL FELT LIKE I COULD APPROACH THEM WITH THESE QUESTIONS. AT THAT I DEFINITELY THINK IS A GOOD TIP THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE SHY TO ASK PEOPLE THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS. BECAUSE YOU CAN GET REALLY USEFUL INFORMATION. AND NOT BE AGAIN, DISCOURAGED AND FEEL LIKE OH, CAN I REALLY DO THIS AND SHOULD I REALLY ASK THIS, IT'S EMBARRASSING, JUST GO FOR IT. SO AGAIN, I CANNOT POINT OUT ONE SINGLE PERSON BUT PEOPLE WITH THAT PHENOTYPE THAT HAD GONE THROUGH THIS, THAT COLLECTIVELY, THE INFORMATION I GOT FROM THEM REALLY HELPED. THEN AN IMPORTANT PERSON IN THIS PROCESS IS YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE PROACTIVE BECAUSE THERE IS NO HAND HOLDING. YOU JUST HAVE TO APPLY SEARCH FOR AND APPLY. AND APPELLEE FOR A LOT. AND YOU WON'T GET EVERYTHING BUT THEN JUST CONTINUE AND READJUST AND RETHINK. AND BE OPEN FOR THAT. IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT EXACTLY HOW YOU THOUGHT YOUR PLAN A BUT PLAN B MAYBE BETTER IN THE END. >> HELLO, YES, I LOST THE CONNECTION BUT I THINK I'M ON AGAIN. (OFF MIC) >> I THINK IN EARLY PROCESS OF LOOKING FOR A NEW POSITION THERE ARE TWO SIDES. SO IN MY CASE I COULD NAME TWO PEOPLE ON THE UK SIDE, IT'S PROFESSOR LEE WHO ACTUALLY WANTED TO HAVE ME HERE. I FIT INTO THE PROGRAM OF RESEARCH WE HAD. MY MEMBERTOR -- MENTOR FROM NIH I THINK SHE WAS REALLY GREAT AND REALLY HELPED ME IN TERMS OF WRITING THE APPLICATION FOR THE EARLY GRANT AND IT STILL HELPED ME A LOT, I'M IN A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AND HE HELPS ME. IN TERMS OF OTHER OPTIONS, WHEN I STARTED I APPLIED TO -- I STARTED PROBABLY MOST OF THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS. I TRIED TO GET AN ASSISTANT POSITION, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR POSITION IN THE U.S. AS WELL LIKE IN CANADA AND IN EUROPE AND FINALLY WHAT I CAN SAY THE MOST SUCCESSFUL APPROACH WAS THE DIRECT APPROACH TO PEOPLE WITH WHOM I WOULD LIKE TO WORK SO THIS WAS IN THE UK AND IN CANADA. THIS IS PEOPLE I MET EARLIER, I KNEW THEM, AND I KNEW THAT THEY COULD BE INTERESTED IN HAVING ME IN THE DEPARTMENT OR DIVISION. SO THIS IS THE POINT THAT I MENTION AT THE BEGINNING, THAT THE MORE PEOPLE YOU KNOW THE EASIER IT IS TO START LOOKING FOR A POSITION BECAUSE YOU CAN ASK THEM DIRECTLY WHEN YOU SEND AN EMAIL, YOU ARE NOT NOBODY BUT YOU ARE A PERSON THAT THEY POTENTIALLY CAN RECOGNIZE AND MAYBE YOU COULD BE FAMOUS FOR SOMETHING BECAUSE OF THE MEETINGS THAT YOU ATTENDED. >> I START TO SAY I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH WHAT WAS JUST PREVIOUSLY SAID. YOU WERE REACHING OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID A THIRD STEP BEFORE AND THAT'S MOST PEOPLE YOU LEARN MOST FROM AND YOU LEARN HOW TO DO A CERTAIN PATH SUCCESSFULLY. IN GENERAL MOST ARE EXTREMELY HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE IN THE ACADEMIC OR NON-ACADEMIC CAREERS SO A LOT OF GOOD CONVERSATIONS EITHER BACK IN SWITZERLAND OR OVER SKYPE WITH PEOPLE WHO JUST TALK AND FROM WHOM YOU COULD LEARN HOW TO APPROACH OR HOW THEY APPROACH THE JOB SEARCH OR TRANSITION FROM FOR EXAMPLE, ACADEMIA TO INDUSTRY. SO THERE IS A CASE TO SINGLE OUT A SINGLE PERSON. IF I HAD TO SING T OUT ONE PERSON -- SINGLE OUT ONE PERSON IT'S MY Ph.D. ADVISER BACK IN SWITZERLAND BECAUSE SHE'S CONNECTED IN SWITZERLAND, SHE HAS HER NETWORK IN SWITZERLAND AND THAT'S GEOGRAPHICALLY THE REGION I'M AIMING AT RIGHT NOW. AND SHE KNOW MESS VERY WELL, SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETIMES YOU JUST NEED SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS YOU AND WHO CAN ALSO PICK UP THE PHONE IF THAT'S REQUIRED. AND SAY WELL, I KNOW THIS PERSON, I CAN RECOMMEND THIS PERSON. THAT'S VERY OFTEN MUCH MORE WORTH THAN A VERY SOPHISTICATED APPLICATION LETTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. (OFF MIC) >> YEAH. AGAIN, MY RETURN TO MY Ph.D. INSTITUTE. BUT EVERY TIME I WAS BACK IN SWEE DEN FOR VACATION I USUALLY HAD SOME WORK-RELATED ISSUE THERE. AND MET WITH SOMEONE. SO YEAH, SO I GUESS I DIDN'T GO INTERVIEW TOUR BUT I HAVE LIMITED EXPERIENCE IN THAT. >> I CAN SAY THAT'S GENERALLY WHEN I WENT BACK TO SWITZERLAND FOR FAMILY REASONS TO VISIT FAMILY I ALWAYS MET PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT UNIVERSITIES OR WHO GAVE TALKS AND INTERACT WITH THEM. EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW PEOPLE OR IF YOU ONLY MET THEM AT MEETINGS THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO INVITE YOU FOR A SEMINAR AND LISTEN TO WHAT TOUGH SAY IF YOU HAVE A NICE STORY TO TELL. I THINK AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ONE STORY TO TELL, GO AND TALK ABOUT IT. WHERE YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK./ >> DATABASE OF OPENINGS BUT IT IS A GREAT TOOL FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT'S AVAILABLE OUT THERE, WHAT KINDS OF PROGRAMS, PROJECTS ARE OUT THERE BECAUSE MANY OF THESE OPENINGS ARE FUNDED FROM DIFFERENT EUROPEAN FUNDING SOURCES. SO AGAIN, I WANTED TO GO BACK TO THE SUGGESTION THAT -- CHECK WHAT PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN RECENTLY FUNDED BY THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE OPENINGS PARTICULARLY WHEN IT'S A NEW PROGRAM. I HEAR FROM SCIENTIFIC OFFICERS WHO WORK IN THE RESEARCH WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF EVALUATION OF THIS PROPOSAL, THAT IT'S CUSTOMARY FOR SCIENTISTS TO GET IN TOUCH WITH PIs AND INQUIRE ABOUT OPENINGS WITH NEW PROGRAMS. SO I THINK I'VE NOTICED IT WHEN I INTERACT WITH EUROPEANS WHO COME THE U.S., PARTICULARLY NEWCOMERS, WHO ARE HESITANT TO MARKET THEMSELVES, TO BE PROACTIVE IN CONTACTING PEOPLE. THEY ARE A BIT -- AND I WAS LIKE THAT WHEN I CAME HERE. IT WAS NOT NATURAL FOR ME TO GO AND INTRODUCE MYSELF AND SAY WHAT I WANT, SAY BUT APPARENTLY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO DO. IF YOU IDENTIFY A PROGRAM THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO MATCH FOR YOU DON'T HESITATE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THIS PERSON WHO IS IN CHARGE BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WILL COME OUT OF IT. I SPOKE TO A COLLEAGUE WHO IS IN THE CANCER PROGRAM THAT THIS IS SOMETHING HE STRONGLY RECOMMENDED. SO AGAIN, GO ONLINE, SEE WHAT PROGRAMS WERE FUNDED RECENTLY, IDENTIFY THE PI AND CONTACT THEM. >> ALSO THINKING ABOUT AT MEETINGS AS CRAIG WAS SAYING THAT'S WHERE YOU MET A LOT OF PEOPLE. OFTEN YOU HAVE POSSIBILITIES FOR LIKE A MEDIA EXPERT BREAKFAST OR SO WITH IMPORTANT -- WITH PIs OR TO HAVE LIKE SPECIAL NETWORKING SESSIONS. I GUESS THOSE ARE ALSO GOOD OPPORTUNITIES TO REALLY MAKE THIS STEP AND APPROACH PEOPLE AND JUST TO GET YOURSELF KNOWN AND TO KNOW OTHER PEOPLE. >> I CAN ADD SOMETHING TO THIS TOPIC. >> YES, PLEASE. CAN YOU HEAR ME? >> WE HEAR VERY WELL. >> OKAY. SO IN TERMS OF A MEMBER AT THE NIH IN TERMS OF TRAVELING TO DIFFERENT CONFERENCES, IT WASN'T EASY TO GO TO EUROPE SO MOSTLY WHAT I DID, I TOOK EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO A BIG CONFERENCES BUT ESPECIALLY TO SMALL CONFERENCES IN THE STATES USUALLY A SPECIFIC CONFERENCE IN A PARTICULAR AREA, THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM EUROPE AS WELL AND I THINK THIS IS THE BEST OPTION WHERE YOU HAVE THIS INFORMAL SITUATION WHERE YOU CAN TALK TO BIG NAMES AS WELL TO YOUR COLLEAGUES AND LOOK FOR JUST GET INFORMATION WHERE THERE ARE POTENTIAL OPENINGS, WHERE PEOPLE POTENTIALLY MAYBE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY. SO YES, I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO EUROPE TO POLAND FOR EXAMPLE WITH SOME LECTURES BUT I WOULD SAY THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY WAS TO GO FOR ME IT WAS THE KEYSTONE SIMILAR POEIA, IT WAS SYMPOSIUM ON AMENRRHEA, I ATTENDED IT TWICE AND THIS WAS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ACTUALLY I MET MOST OF THE PEOPLE I KNOW NOW AND WHO I'M FAMILIAR WITH AND TODAY THIS WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY. >> OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE? >> ACTUALLY I WOULD LIKE TO ADD SOMETHING TO WHAT GREG SAID, THAT IN EUROPE ALSO THERE ARE -- NOT ONLY EUROPE BUT IN U.S. BUT I KNOW THE EUROPEAN MARKET LET'S SAY, THE SOCIETY, THE SCIENTIFIC SOCIETIES IN WHICH YOU CAN BE EASILY A MEMBER AND BEING A MEMBER ESPECIALLY YOUNG MEMBER OF THE SOCIETIES ALWAYS -- USUALLY FREE LIKE IN MY CASE EUROPEAN ACADEMIA OF ALLERGENS, CLINICAL IMMUNOLOGY OR EUROPEAN SOCIETY. AND ALWAYS GOING FOR THE CONFERENCE OR IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE CONFERENCE TO EUROPE YOU CAN APPLY FOR A TRAVEL GRANT WHICH IS MUCH EASIER IN MY -- AT LEAST FROM MY OBSERVATIONS, MUCH EASIER TO GET THIS KIND OF GRANT THAN FELLOWSHIP GRANTS HERE IN THE US. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF -- MUCH MORE GRANTS TO GO TO EUROPE AND I HAVE BEEN HERE ONE YEAR, I APPLIED FOR THIS KIND OF GRANTS, TRAVEL GRANTS TO GO TO PETE PEOPLE AND IT WAS NOT -- MEET PEOPLE AND IT WAS NOT SO DIFFICULT TO GET THEM. SO IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND TO MEET PEOPLE TO GET CONNECTIONS AND SO ON. >> I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FUNDING GRANTS AND THE CONNECTIONS. WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT LIKE SOFT SCALES AND HOW IT TAKES TO BE SUCCESSFUL LATER ON. SO WHAT WOULD THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE SAY APART FROM THE GOOD PUBLICATIONS? WHAT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILLS TO MAKE IS TRANSITION? KARIN, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY? >> FOR EXAMPLE THAT YOU CAN REMAIN TO BE FOCUSED ON A PROJECT AND COMPLETE THE PROJECT. BECAUSE NOT UNTIL YOU HAVE THAT PUBLICATION YOU HAVE A DOCUMENTATION OF THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS AND THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. SO I THINK THAT'S -- I MEAN, IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU COMPLETE THINGS AND IF YOU CAN'T, TRY TO AVOID TO LEAVE YOUR POST-DOC POSITION WITHOUT HAVING TOO MUCH UNFINISHED BUSINESS THAT COULD HAVE LED TO SOMETHING GOOD. THOSE ARE PUBLICATIONS AND YOUR PUBLICATION, THAT WILL GIVE YOU A TICKET TO THE NEXT STEP. SO I THINK THAT IS AN IMPORTANT FEATURE. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT WHEN YOU START YOUR LAB THAT YOU DON'T -- YOU HAVE TO GROW WITH THE NEW POSITION. IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE A POST-DOC ONE DAY AND NEXT DAY A PI AND CAN ONLY SIT IN YOUR CHAIR AND GIVE DIRECTIONS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK. YOU HAVE TO TRANSFER YOUR KNOWLEDGE, YOU ARE A GOOD SCIENTIST, TRANSFER THAT KNOWLEDGE, BE OUT IN THE LAB AND TRANSFER WHAT YOU CAN AND TRY TO CREATE A GOOD ATMOSPHERE IN YOUR GROUP. SO THE PEOPLE CAN START TO HELP EACH OTHER AND YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE DESK AND APPLY FOR MORE GRANTS AND YOU GET LIKE A POSITIVE SPIRAL. SO I THINK THAT -- I HAVE SEEN EXAMPLES OF THAT WHEN PEOPLE GET THEIR ASSISTANT PROFESSORSHIP BUT SORT OF CONSIDER THEMSELVES A LITTLE BIT TOO SENIOR. THAT WASN'T HEALTHY. >> OKAY. MAYBE FRANK, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY OTHER SKILLS THAT ARE MOST VALUABLE FOR THE SEARCH? >> FOR THE ACADEMIC JOB SEARCH I THINK IT'S REALLY WHAT WAS SAID BEFORE, YOU GET -- REMAIN FOCUSED AND GET YOUR WORK DONE AND DO IT WELL. I THINK THE SOFT SKILLS YOU'RE ALLUDING TO ARE THOSE THAT ARE IMPORTANT ONCE YOU GOT THE THE JOB BUT THEY WILL NOT GET YOU THE JOB. IS IMPORTANT TO BE A GOOD LEADER AND CREE CRATE AN ATMOSPHERE THAT'S PRODUCTIVE. IT'S DIFFERENT IF YOU LOOK FOR JOBS OUTSIDE OF THE ACADEMIC SETTING AND TR THERE YOU NEED TO HAVE DEPENDING ON WHAT JOB IT IS, A CERTAIN SKILL SET BE IT LANGUAGES OR ORGANIZATION, IT ALSO HELPS A CERTAIN TRACK RECORD ALREADY, YOU WRITE A SCIENCE BLOG IF YOU WANT TO G INTO WRITING OR YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN POLITICS IF YOU WANT TO GO INTO POLICY, THESE SKILLS WILL BE IMPORTANT IF YOU CONSIDER THOSE OTHER JOBS. >> SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, THEY ALSO SHOULD BE SORT OF DOCUMENTED OR VISIBLE. YOU SHOULD SAY OH YES, I LIKE -- BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE -- >> EVERYBODY CAN DO THAT BUT YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT SOMEHOW. THAT'S JUST BY WHAT -- I THINK YOU'RE DOING IN SCIENCE, YOUR PUBLICATION CAN SHOW YOU YOU CAN THINK WELL AND FOR OTHER FIELDS, OTHER FORMS OF DOCUMENTATION FOR YOUR SKILLS AND YOU ALWAYS NEED THAT. >> THANKS. GREG, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR SO ON THIS? >> YES, I WOULD NAME ACTUALLY TWO THINGS. ONE IS SELF-CONFIDENCE, THE SECOND ONE WOULD BE PRESENTATION SKILLS. FROM MY EXPERIENCE TO WHENEVER YOU GO FOR AN INTERVIEW OR WHEN YOU TALK TO PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO BE SURE YOU ARE THE BEST IN THE AREA OF YOUR INTEREST OR WHATEVER YOU DO. THIS IS THE FIRST POINT BECAUSE WHEN YOU ARE CONFIDENT PEOPLE THINK YOU REALLY ARE THE BEST, AND THE SAME APPLIES TO THE PRESENTATION SKILLS. YOU HAVE TO SHOW YOUR DATA, YOU HAVE TO SHOW YOUR PROGRAM OR WHAT DO YOU REALLY WANT TO ACHIEVE. BETTER YOU CAN DO THIS THE BETTER YOU CAN BE RECOGNIZED AND YOU CAN GET POSITIONS. SO I KNOW THIS IS VERY GENERAL BUT I WOULD SAY IF YOU CAN LEARN SOMETHING AT THE NIH AND CLEARLY I HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN SOME PRESENTATION SKILLS. AND GET SOME SELF-CONFIDENCE. I THINK GETTING TO NIH IS VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS THOUGH WHEN YOU ARE THERE I THINK THAT'S A HUGE JUMP IN TERMS OF YOUR CAREER AND IT HELPS IN TERMS OF MOVING SOMEWHERE ELSE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE OR WOULD ANYBODY FROM THAT PANEL LIKE TO MAKE FURTHER COMMENT OR SO? ISABELLA >> >> I WANTED TO INVITE EVERYBODY TO GETTEN OUR MAILING LIST WHO IS NOT YET ON IT BECAUSE WE HAVE A MONTHLY NEWS LETTER AND WE REMIND YOU ABOUT NEW CALLS FOR PROPOSALS. AND FROM TIME TO TIME REALLY WE HAVE INTERESTING JOB OPENINGS THAT MIGHT BE RELEVANT. I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT I SHARED THIS LITTLE ARTICLE ABOUT AMERICAN VERSUS EUROPEAN CV. I'M SURE HE WILL DISTRIBUTE IT TO ALL OF YOU. IT'S A ONE PAGER BUT I THINK IT WAS VERY USEFUL TO READ IT. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. WITH THAT I WAS REALLY LIKE TO THANK ALL THE PANEL MEMBERS FOR BEING WITH US THIS AFTERNOON. ALSO GREG, I THINK IT'S NOW ALMOST 9 P.M. IN LONDON, THANKS FOR SPENDING YOUR EVENING WITH US. FRANK IN NEW YORK, AND IZABELLA AND CANCER FOR BEING -- AND KARIN FOR BEING HERE. IT WAS VALUABLE INPUT FOR ALL OF US. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] >> THEN I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND EVERYONE HERE AGAIN OF THE MAILING LIST, YOUR ROWJOBS/L, EVERYONE INTERESTED IN SIGNING UP FOR LIKE MONTHLY MEETINGS ON JUST EXCHANGING ABOUT JOB SEARCH IN EUROPE PLEASE SIGN UP FOR THE LIST AND WE'LL DISPUTE THE INFORMATION. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST AND PARTICIPATION. >> THANKS, FRANK.