>>THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US WHICH IS SPONSORED
BY THE NATIONAL HEART LUNG AND
BLOOD INSTITUTE BIOMEDICAL
LECTURE SERIES AND HEALTH
EQUITY OUTREACH SERIES.
BY WAY OF INTERJECTION IN THE
BIOMEDICAL LECTURE SERIES
SPEAKERS PRESENT CURRENT
RESEARCH IN A GIVEN THE
OPPORTUNITY TO BRIEFLY COMMENT
ON BROADER ISSUES AND THEIR
SCIENTIFIC FIELD.
ON THE OTHER HALF THE HEALTH
EQUITY RESEARCH SERIES
HIGHLIGHTS THE WORK AND VOICES
OF THOSE HEALTH EQUITY
RESEARCH TO FOSTER
COLLABORATION TO ADDRESS
PRESSING CHALLENGES AND
OPPORTUNITIES IN THE
BURGEONING AREA OF SCIENTIFIC
RESEARCH PERK I'M HIGHLY
HONORED TO INTRODUCE AS OUR
SPEAKER WHEN EMMY
AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST
PULITZER PRIZE FINALIST AUTHOR
AND PROFESSOR AT STANFORD AND
UCLA DIRECTING THE STANFORD
HEALTH COMMUNICATION
INITIATIVE IN A CLINICAL
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF
MEDICINE AT POPULATION HEALTH
AND ALSO VISITING ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR AT UCLA.
SHE BEGAN HER JOURNALISM
CAREER AS A HEALTH AND SCIENCE
REPORTER MEETING A FEW WEEKS
BEFORE ARRIVING IN DALLAS A
MEDICAL ANALYST FOR CNN AND
REPORTING APPEARS IN YOUR
TIMES, SCIENTIFIC
AMERICAN, 'WIRED" MAGAZINE AND
OTHER OUTLETS.
AN OFFICER AT THE EPIDEMIC
INTELLIGENCE SERVICE WILL SHE
INVESTIGATED DISEASE OUTBREAKS
OF VACCINE PREVENTABLE
DISEASES TRAINED IN MEDICINE
JOURNALISM AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF TORONTO ALSO THE AUTHOR OF
FIVE BOOKS INCLUDING WHAT THE
FACT FINDING THE TRUTH AND ALL
THE NOISE MEDICAL MYTH AND
WHEN WE FALL FOR THEM AND SHE
PREFERRED TO HAVE A FIRESIDE
CHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO REMIND
EVERYONE OUR HONORED SPEAKER
GIVES THEIR VIEWS NOT
NECESSARILY BAD OF NIH I WILL
MODERATE RESERVING THE LAST
TEN OR 15 MINUTES TO TAKE ANY
QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE.
PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE CHAT IF
YOU ARE VIA ZOOM PLEASE POST
QUESTIONS IN THE Q&A BOX IF
YOU HAVE ANY TECHNICAL ISSUES
PLEASE CONTACT ASSISTANCE
THROUGH THE CHAT WITHOUT
FURTHER DELAY THANK YOU FOR
SPEAKING WITH US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME
INTO HIGHLIGHT THIS TOPIC OF
CONVERSATION.
>> MALIHA: TO START, TALK
ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.
YOU BEGIN YOUR BOOK WITH THE
STORY OF HOW YOU WERE RAISED
AS A CONSPIRACY THEORIST HOW
DID THAT LEAD TO THE WORK YOU
DO NOW WITH HEALTH
COMMUNICATION?
>> DR. YASMIN: I DON'T HAVE
THE CAREER I PLANNED I DON'T
COME FROM DOCTORS OR ACADEMICS
AT ALL BUT MY JOURNEY VERY
MUCH MAKES SENSE WHEN YOU
THINK I CAME FROM A COMMUNITY
IN THE UK IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY
FROM XENOPHOBIA AND ISLAM A
PHOBIA.
WHAT BECAME APPARENT TO ME
THAT THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
HELPED US FIND CONNECTION AND
BUILD COMMUNITY AND
DEMONSTRATED TO ME EARLY ON SO
MUCH ABOUT THE SENSE OF
BELONGING BAD AS MUCH AS WE
THINK WE ARE SO RATIONAL AND
LOGICAL LOOKING AT DATA SETS
TO MAKE DECISIONS THERE IS SO
MUCH MORE GOING INTO OUR
BELIEFS AND DECISION-MAKING
PROGRESS I WAS WRITING THIS
BOOK THAT CAME OUT EARLY IN
THE PANDEMIC AND THERE WAS A
TIME PEOPLE KNEW ME OF HAVING
REPORTED THROUGH THE EBOLA
EPIDEMIC AND THE EARLY DAYS OF
COVID.
SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL ME THE
MYTH BUSTER.
SO MY RIGHT TO THIS BOOK THAT
IS ALL ABOUT CONSPIRACIES THAT
ACTUALLY BEING ON ETHICAL
THINGS THAT GOVERNMENTS DID
TWO PEOPLE LEADING TO MISTRUST
AND THOSE THAT WERE ALSO NOT
TRUE.
I CANNOT WRITE THIS BOOK
WITHOUT PUTTING MY STORY AT
THE BEGINNING TO SAY YOU MIGHT
THINK OF ME AS A PERSON WHO IS
LOGICAL AND USES DATA BUT
BECAUSE OF THE COMMUNITY I
GREW UP, I WAS RAISED BY
PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THE MOON
LANDING WAS FAKE AND BELIEVED
WEIRD THINGS ABOUT THE ROYAL
FAMILY.
IT MADE SENSE AT THE TIME
BECAUSE SO MANY OTHER THINGS
THAT HAD HAPPENED WERE
HORRIFIC WERE ACTUALLY TRUE
LIKE THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT
DID GO TO MY HOME COUNTRY IN
INDIA AND STARTED GENERAL
SIDE.
THESE THINGS THAT SEEMED
UNIMAGINABLE AND MAKE SENSE TO
ME NOW BECAUSE EVEN WHEN I'M
TEACHING CLINICIANS AND
TRAINING THEM HOW TO BUILD
RAPPORT AND BREAK THROUGH
BARRIERS WITH PATIENTS WHO ARE
VACCINE HESITANT WE TALK ABOUT
REAL SITUATIONS PEOPLE ARE PUT
IN WHERE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
ARE SHARED WITH THEM BUT IT
CAN SEEM LIKE SUCH A VAN
ABSURD BELIEF IT CAN GIVE YOU
MAGNETIC SUPERPOWERS.
I TRAIN ON HAVING EMPATHY.
HAVE EMPATHY FOR THE PERSON.
OFTEN PEOPLE TELL ME THAT IS
HARD TO DO.
I THINK MOST TIMES IT IS NOT
DIFFICULT FOR ME BECAUSE OF
THE BACKGROUND THAT I HAD.
IT IS HUMBLING TO REMEMBER
THAT.
NOW TO BE ENTRENCHED IN THIS
WORLD, ONE OF MY FAVORITE
FELLOW RESEARCHERS STARTS OFF
THE CALL BY SAYING WHY DON'T
WE SHARE WHAT WE HAVE BELIEVED
IN RECENTLY BUT WAS NOT TRUE.
IT FELT GREAT TO HAVE THESE
WORLD-CLASS RESEARCHERS SAYING
MAYBE IT WASN'T FOR LONG THAT
I FELL FOR THIS OR TOOK ME A
SECOND TO REALIZE.
AND THE FACT I WRITE ABOUT THE
ABILITY TO BE HUMBLE AND
REMEMBER WE ARE ALL
SUSCEPTIBLE TO FALLING FOR
FALSEHOODS AS BEING PROTECTED
AGAINST FALLING THAT IS HOW MY
EVOLVING JOURNEY CONNECTS MY
EARLY DAYS AS A CONSPIRACY
THEORIST AND REALLY EXAMINES
WHY WE FALL FOR THOSE
CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
NOT BLACK AND WHITE BUT SO
GRAY AND MURKY.
>> MALIHA: SO INTERESTING TO
HEAR THAT.
YOU WROTE ABOUT THE MEASLES
OUTBREAK IN MINNESOTA THE
FIRST IN THE STATE IN
APPROXIMATELY 30 YEARS AND
WHEN VACCINE HESITANCY WAS
HIGH ESPECIALLY IN THE SOMALI
COMMUNITY.
YOU POINTED OUT PUBLIC HEALTH
MISSED OPPORTUNITIES TO WORK
WITH THE PUBLIC IN THAT
SITUATION.
CAN YOU SAY MORE ABOUT THAT?
>> IT WAS A HORRIFIC
EPIDEMIC.
BUT THE WORST OUTBREAK IN
MINNESOTA OF MEASLES AT ABOUT
THREE DECADES LOOKING AT IT
WAS AFFECTING VERY MUCH
FOCUSED AMONG SOME ALL THE
KIDS IN THE MINNEAPOLIS AREA.
THE OUTBREAK HAPPENS BUT THE
ROOTS OF THAT CONTAGION GO
BACK A NUMBER OF YEARS AND
WHAT HAPPENED MAY BE AROUND
2010 OR SO WHEN SOME ALL THE
PARENTS WERE WORRIED THAT
RATES OF DEVELOPMENTAL DELAY
WERE HIGHER AMONG THEIR
CHILDREN COMPARED TO THEIR
CHILDREN'S WHITE FRIENDS SO
THE CONCERN STARTED TO SPREAD
AND LOCALLY THEY DID HEAR
ABOUT THIS THEN ADDRESSED IN
THE WAY WE DO IN PUBLIC HEALTH
WHICH WE HEARD YOUR CONCERN WE
WILL NOW DO A STUDY AND DO DUE
DILIGENCE IF THIS IS ACTUALLY
HAPPENING.
IN THE MINNEAPOLIS AREA WE
KNOW THAT TAKES TIME YOU DON'T
SNAP YOUR FINGERS AND GET
VALIDATION OVERNIGHT MOST
TIMES BUT WHAT HAPPENED WAS A
VERY WELL RESEARCHED AND
COORDINATED AND TARGETED
CAMPAIGN BY ANTI-
VACCINE, ANTI- SCIENCE AND
ANTIGOVERNMENT GROUPS
TARGETING THE CONCERNS OF THE
SOMALI PARENTS.
WITH THE WEEK FIELD
ORGANIZATION.
AND WITH THESE CONCERNS TURNED
UP TO MINNEAPOLIS.
EVEN THOSE WITH ARMED GUARDS
WITH PUBLIC HEALTH FOLKS AND
JOURNALISTS.
AND SAID TO THE SOMALI
COMMUNITY WE HAVE HEARD YOUR
CONCERNS YOU ARE RIGHT IT IS
HIGHER AMONG SOME ALL THE
CHILDREN AND WE WILL SHOW YOU
WHY.
THEY SHOWED THEM THE GRAPH
WITH THE VACCINATION COVERAGE
WAS AMONG SOME ALL THE
CHILDREN GIVEN HOW CONTAGIOUS
THEY ARE ESPECIALLY MEASLES
BUT BECAUSE THAT COMMUNITY WAS
TOLD OVER AND OVER WHEN AUTISM
RATES ARE HIGHER BECAUSE YOU
VACCINATE DILIGENTLY THAT
VACCINATION COVERAGE RATE
DROPPED FROM 94 PERCENT TO
AROUND 42 PERCENT AND IT
PLUMMETED AND WE KNOW WHAT
HAPPENS NEXT BECAUSE YOU KNOW
HOW CONTAGIOUS MEASLES IS.
IT WAS HARROWING.
LOOK AT SOME OF THE COVERAGE I
STILL REMEMBER THE INTERVIEWS
WITH THE PARENTS THEY WERE
DEVASTATED BECAUSE THE
CHILDREN WERE SO SICK THEY HAD
TO BE HOSPITALIZED ANOTHER
REMINDER IT IS A DAY MY OLD
CHILDHOOD ILLNESS BUT ALSO
SOME OF THESE FOLKS HAD
SURVIVED HORRORS IN REFUGEE
CAMPS IN THE HORN OF AFRICA
AND LOST FAMILY MEMBERS TO
MEASLES IN THE REFUGEE CAMPS
AND WITH "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
AND "WASHINGTON POST" SAYING I
LOST A SISTER I DID NOT THINK
THIS COULD HAPPEN IN AMERICA.
AT THAT TIME AS AN SERVICE
OFFICER BUT WHEN I WAS I MOVED
FROM THE UK TO HEAR THINKING I
WILL BE CHASING PATHOGENS WITH
ALL OF THESE UNUSUAL DISEASES
I HAVE NOT HEARD OF BUT IT WAS
A MEASLES OUTBREAK CHILDREN
ARE DYING OF WHOOPING COUGH.
IT BROUGHT HOME THE FACT THAT
WHEN THERE IS A VACUUM OF
INFORMATION AND PUBLIC HEALTH
GOES AWAY DURING ITS RESEARCH
WHICH DOES NOT HAPPEN
OVERNIGHT IT COMES TO FILL THE
GAP AND EVEN WITH BAD NEWS IT
HAS THE HUMAN NEED FOR A
CONNECTION OF THE DOTS AND
WANTING TO BE LISTENED TO AND
THEN SOLUTIONS AS WELL.
SOMETIMES I TEACH THAT
PLAYBOOK SADLY WHAT THEY ARE
COMMUNICATING IS FALSE AND IT
IS DOUBLY DANGEROUS BUT THE
WAY THEY COMMUNICATE AND BUILD
CHANNELS IT IS PITCH PERFECT.
>> THAT IS VERY INTERESTING
HOW THEY GET THOSE
COMMUNICATION CHANNELS
APPROPRIATELY.
THAT MAY NOT BE ACCURATE.
>> THE PUBLIC HEALTH
DEPARTMENT IT CAN AFFORD TO
SAY WE COMPLETED THE ANALYSIS
OF RATES OF AUTISM AND
DEVELOPMENTAL DELAY ARE
EQUALLY SPREAD AMONG THESE
DIFFERENT GROUPS THE RATES ARE
NOT HIGHER BUT THEN WE HAD A
DEVASTATING OUTBREAK IT WAS
TOO LATE AND WE KNOW WHAT KIND
OF ENERGY AND EFFORT IT TAKES
TO GET THOSE VACCINATION RATES
BACK UP ONCE THEY DROP
PRECIPITOUSLY.
>> SUCH AN INTERESTING STORY
ONE MESSAGE YOU DRIVE HOME IS
A PERSON'S BELIEF ABOUT A
VACCINE DECISION-MAKING IS NOT
JUST ABOUT WHAT IT IS INSIDE
THE FILE CAN YOU ELABORATE ON
WHAT YOU MEAN AND HOW THE
WORLD SHAPES OUR BELIEF IN
WHAT THAT MEANS FOR SCIENCE
COMMUNICATION?
>> WE SAW THIS DURING COVID
THE MESSAGING WAS THE VACCINE
DEVELOPED IN RECORD TIME IT
WAS AMAZING LOOK AT WHAT
SCIENCE CAN DO IF THERE IS A
CONCERTED EFFORT WITH
RESOURCES AND POWER WITH HIV
AND MALARIA BUT FOR THOSE WHO
ARE NOT IN THE WORLD OF
SCIENCE WASN'T THAT TOO QUICK
AND IT DIDN'T FEEL SAFE.
WHEN AND WE COUNTED THAT
HESITATION WAS BUNCHES OF
FACTS IT'S IMPORTANT TO SHARE
THEY KNOW HOW THEY ARE
CONSTRUCTED BUT IT DOESN'T
ADDRESS THE FACT THAT JUST BY
REPEATING THE INGREDIENTS IT'S
IN SHAMPOO OR TOOTHPASTE THERE
WAS SUCH FRUSTRATION WHEN THE
PROVISION OF THAT INFORMATION
WAS MET WITH RESISTANCE AND
HESITATION TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT
WE DO IN PUBLIC HEALTH OVER
AND OVER WHICH IS A
PATERNALISTIC APPROACH TO
MESSAGING USING THE KNOWLEDGE
DEFICIT MODEL THIS IS THE GAP
BUT THE FACTS ALONE ARE NOT
ENOUGH TO SHIFT THE BIAS WITH
THAT HESITATION SO I SAID THIS
SO MANY TIMES A DECISION TO
VACCINATE OR NOT IS MORE THAN
WHAT IS IN THE FILE.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FACT
THERE IS HISTORY AT PLAY.
THE RACIAL ISSUES GEOPOLITICS
LONG HISTORIES OF UNETHICAL
EXPERIMENTS WITH DIFFERENT
TYPES OF ENGAGEMENT
COMMUNITIES HAVE HAD WITH
HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND OVER
THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC NOT
JUST A REGULAR ROLLOUT BUT
FROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH
EMERGENCY WITH SO MUCH
UNCERTAINTY, WITH THE
SCIENTIFIC ESTABLISHMENTS AND
ASSUMING THAT JUST YOU KNOWING
WHAT THESE MULTISYLLABIC
INGREDIENTS WHICH SHIFT THAT
BUT WE ARE NOT GIVING REALLY
ANY UNDERSTANDING WHY
DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE
DIFFERENT HESITANCY'S ABOUT
VACCINES.
WHAT I HAVE NOTICED OVER A
DECADE OF TRACKING OF ANTI-
VACCINE MESSAGING, THERE HAS
BEEN A SHIFT.
IT'S NOT JUST THE MESSAGING
THAT SAYS VACCINES ARE
TOXIC, CONTAIN MERCURY, CAUSE
AUTISM BUT WE STILL WITNESS
THOSE MESSAGES.
I ALSO SEE A LOT THAT IT WILL
SAY VACCINES ARE ANTI-
AMERICAN OR IT IS ANTI-
FREEDOM IT GOES AGAINST THE
AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE.
SURE, THAT IS HARDER TO DEAL
WITH THAN SOMEONE WHO SAYS I
THINK THEY ARE POISONOUS YOU
CAN BE MORE EQUIPPED TO
COUNTER THAT BUT TO OUR
DETRIMENT WE IGNORE THE BIGGER
IDEOLOGICAL ISSUES THAT WE
DON'T FEEL WE ARE ALWAYS BEST
EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THAT TO
HAVE SOME ENGAGEMENT WITH
THOSE ISSUES ARE TO MAKE SURE
WE ARE PARTNERING WITH SOCIAL
PSYCHOLOGIST AND TRUSTED
MESSENGERS OTHERWISE JUST
SHUTTING THOSE FACTS TO SAY
OVER AND OVER IT IS SAFE IS
NOT ADDRESSING FROM THOSE
DEEP-SEATED CONCERNS AND THE
DISTRUST THAT PEOPLE HARBOR.
>> IT TAKES YOU BACK TO THE
COMMENTS HE STARTED WITH A
SENSE OF BELONGING YOU HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND WHERE PEOPLE ARE
COMING FROM WHEN YOU PACKAGE
THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU
MAY HAVE ALL THE FACTS AND THE
TRUTH BUT IT IS NOT CONVEYED.
>> ALSO THIS ASSUMPTION THAT
MANY OF US MAKE IT IS
SUBCONSCIOUS I HAVE THE
DEGREES AND YEARS OF
EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD I AM
THE TRUSTED MESSENGER.
BUT NO I AM NOT.
IT IS TO OUR DETRIMENT NOT TO
ENGAGE WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
TRUSTED MESSENGERS WITH THE
WHITE HOUSE VERY EARLY IN THE
PANDEMIC IT WAS OCTOBER OF
2020 I WORKED WITH MY MOM A
LONG TIME AIDS ACTIVIST WE
TALKED TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
ON INDIAN RESERVATIONS TO TALK
TO THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY DOING
PUBLIC HEALTH WORK.
MAY BE 20 YEARS GRASSROOTS HIV
ORGANIZING MAY BE GETTING MMR
VACCINES BUT THEY WERE DEEPLY
ROOTED IN OUR COMMUNITIES IS
COUNTED LIKE THOSE THAT WE
WORK WITH EVERY DAY AND
UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE PARTICULAR
CONCERNS WERE.
BUT WE JUST NEGLECTED TO TAP
INTO THAT.
SO NOT INTERESTED IN MAPPING
WHAT THESE NETWORKS LOOK LIKE
TRUSTING WITH THESE MESSENGERS
ARE THE WITH THE NEXT
EMERGENCY WE DON'T JUST ASSUME
THAT PERSON IS EVERYONE'S IDEA
OF A TRUSTED AND INCREDIBLE
SOURCE BECAUSE SADLY THAT'S
NOT ALWAYS THE TRUSTED SOURCE
OF INFORMATION WHEN IT COMES
TO HEALTH AND SCIENCE.
>> WE AGREE ABOUT TAPPING INTO
THE TRUSTED COMMUNITY
LEADERS.
YOUR MOST RECENT BOOK IS
SOLUTIONS ORIENTED.
TELL US ABOUT BEST PRACTICES
ABOUT HEALTH AND SCIENCE.
>> DR. YASMIN: I WROTE WHAT
THE FACT FOR SMART TEENAGERS
ALTHOUGH ADULTS ARE READING IT
BECAUSE I WAS SEEING A LOT OF
CONVERSATION AROUND
MISINFORMATION AND
DISINFORMATION AROUND COVID
EVERYONE TALKED ABOUT FAKE
NEWS AND IT FELT SO ROOTED IN
THE PROBLEM SPACE AND I WAS
CONCERNED WE WERE NEGLECTING
WITH THE STRATEGY FOR THE
FALSEHOOD SO THERE ARE
EVIDENCE-BASED STRATEGIES WHAT
CAN WORK WELL IN THIS
SITUATION SO THINKING ABOUT
YOUNG PEOPLE THEY WANT TO TRY
STUFF OUT TO YOU SOLUTIONS
THAT'S WHY I PUT THE BOOK
TOGETHER A FUN TO READ TOOLKIT
AND I HAVE BEEN TEACHING WHO
IS EMPLOYING A DIFFERENT
PARADIGM.
NOT JUST THAT PART IN A
HOLISTIC APPROACH BUT BEFORE I
GET INTO THOSE IDEAS IT WAS
DISHEARTENING TO SEE ON TOP OF
THE EXPECTATION WITH LIVES AT
RISK TO DEAL WITH THE RAPIDLY
EVOLVING PATHOGEN BUT ALSO THE
EXPECTATION HEALTHCARE WORKERS
MUST KNOW HOW TO DEBUNK EVERY
NURSE KNOWS WHAT TO SAY WHEN
THEY ARE VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED TO
VACCINATION IT WAS SUCH A
DISSERVICE TO OUR PATIENTS AND
NOT FAIR TO THOSE WORKING IN
THE CHALLENGING ROLES TO
ASSUME IT IS EASY TO DO THERE
IS A SCIENCE AND ART AND WE
NEED TO TEACH THAT YOU ASKED
ABOUT MY BACKGROUND TO BEGIN
WITH BECAUSE I WAS THAT KID IN
MEDICAL SCHOOL WANTED TO BE A
SURGEON ALWAYS SPENDING TOO
MUCH TIME WHY IS THERE SO MUCH
FOCUS TO BE FILMED WHILE
COMMUNICATING WITH THEY ACTOR
PATIENT IF YOU ARE GOOD BUT IF
YOU ARE BAD THEN WHATEVER THAT
WAS ME JEN BECAUSE I SAW THE
RAMIFICATIONS OF NOT ENOUGH
FOCUS ON COMMUNICATION I ENDED
UP HAVING THIS AREA AND MY
CAREER COMMUNICATION IS HEALTH
INTERVENTION AND THAT EVIDENCE
BACKS THIS UP THE MOST
UBIQUITOUS INTERVENTION OF ALL
THAT WE CONSIDER SCIENCE WE
WILL SPEND ONE YEAR IN THE LAB
WITH VACCINE DEVELOPMENT BUT
THE MESSAGING WILL BE WE WILL
FIGURE IT OUT ONCE THE VACCINE
IS AVAILABLE.
ONE OF THE BEST PRACTICES I
WANT TO SHARE IS THE IDEA OF
PRE- BUNKING SO LET'S GO
THROUGH WIDE IS NOT TRUE AND
WHAT IS A FALLACY OR FACT THAT
PRE- BUNKING LOOKS LIKE WOW.
THIS VACCINE GOING THROUGH
CLINICAL TRIALS LOOKS
PROMISING AND WE MIGHT HAVE IT
AVAILABLE IN SIX MONTHS TIME
THAT IS AMAZING.
WE HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE
BUT THEN TO SAY THAT TOO MANY
PEOPLE THAT QUICK OF A
TURNAROUND WILL NOT BE THE
AMAZING SCIENCE MOMENT BUT
THEY RUSHED THEY HURRIED IT IS
NOT SAFE AND WHO DID THEY
EXPERIMENT ON.
THAT WOULD PREEMPT WHAT THE
FUTURE CIRCULATING FALSEHOODS
WOULD BE AND YOU PREPARE
MESSAGING TO HELP PEOPLE
REALIZE THEY WILL HEAR THIS
AND IT'S NOT TRUE.
THIS IS HOW WE EXPEDITED THE
PROCESS.
WE DO NOT DO THAT HAVING
CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE OF
OPERATION WARP SPEED IT SCARED
MANY PEOPLE BUT AT THE END OF
THE PROCESS THERE WAS THE
REALIZATION THEY WERE IN A LAB
FOR A YEAR CREATING VACCINES
WE COULD OF BEEN THERE BETA
TESTING MESSAGING SURE PEOPLE
HAVE SEEN THE STUDIES WHERE
YOU TALK TO TEN DIFFERENT
PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINE
HESITANT SPECIFICALLY AROUND
THE COVID VACCINE YOU WILL GET
TEN ASTONISHINGLY DIFFERENT
REASONS WHY THEY HAVE CONCERNS
ABOUT THE VACCINE THEY HAVE
THEIR TIGHTER BOOSTER THEY
WERE CONCERNED AND THEN THE
OTHER PERSON DOESN'T WANT ANY
VACCINE WHAT WE HAVE DONE AS
BAD PRACTICE TO MEET EVERYONE
WITH THE SAME INFORMATION
REGARDLESS OF THEIR UNDERLYING
CONCERNS WHICH I THINK SAVES
US TIME BUT IT DOESN'T HELP
BUILD ANY BRIDGES SOMEONE IS
THAT YOU CAN DO ON A BIGGER
SCALE AND ON A MICROSCALE BUT
ANOTHER BEST PRACTICE EVEN
WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU I DON'T
CARE IT GIVES YOU SUPERPOWERS
WITH THE MICROCHIP JUMP IN
WITH THE FACTS.
START BY ASKING QUESTIONS HOW
THEY COME TO BELIEVE THAT I
TEACH IT IS PROCESS RARELY
WANTED DONE CONVERSATION BUT
ONE COMMENT GIVES YOU THE
INTEL YOU ARE GATHERING DATA
WHERE LEARNING WHY THEY DON'T
WANT TO BE VACCINATED BUT ALSO
IT STARTS TO BUILD RAPPORT AND
SAYING SHE'S JUST NOT A KNOW
IT ALL DOCTOR WHO I ASSUME
WILL THROW FACTS AT ME AND
MAKE ME FEEL SILLY AND
DOWN, THAT IS ANOTHER BEST
PRACTICE SOME ARE DEBUNKING
INFORMATION ONE OF MY
FAVORITES IN WHAT THE FACT IS
PEELING BACK THE CURTAIN HOW
THIS IS SPREAD AND ENGINEERED
TO GO VIRAL IN THE FIRST PLACE
SO WHY BREAK DOWN THAT
DISINFORMATION PLAYBOOK BUT I
TOOK THIS HOW CLIMATE SCIENCE
DENIAL THIS IS SPREAD WITH A
FIVE PRONGED APPROACH I
CHECKED THE RESEARCH BUT
BASICALLY WHAT JOHN COOK SAYS
HE HAS AN ACRONYM EACH LETTER
STANDS FOR A DIFFERENT
STRATEGY IT IS FLICC HE IS
CONCERNED WITH CLIMATE SCIENCE
TO NIHILISM BUT WITH THE SAME
STRATEGIES THAT HAVE BEEN USED
WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE TO
NIHILISM OR SPREADING ANTI-
VACCINE MESSAGES THE SAME
STRATEGIES ABOUT CIGARETTES
BEING SAFE TO SMOKE OR BEING
USED BY A BIG BOY ALL AND
MANIPULATING PUBLIC'S THAT
FRACKING IS SAFER THAN IT IS.
SO JOHN COOK BREAKS DOWN THE
TAXONOMY AND GET STEEP BUT
WHAT FLICC STANDS FOR IS FAKE
EXPERT LOGICAL FALLACY
IMPOSSIBLE EXPECTATION
CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND CHERRY
PICKING I GET INTO MORE DETAIL
WHICH EACH IS AS A QUICK
EXAMPLE FAKE EXPERTS IS WHEN
SOMEBODY LOOKS LIKE A CREDIBLE
SOURCE OF INFORMATION.
A STETHOSCOPE, WHITE COAT IF
THEY HAVE A COURSE AT HARVARD
AND THEY LOOK LEGITIMATE BUT
WHAT THEY SAY IS NOT TRUE SO
BECAUSE WE ARE SO DEEP IN THE
WORLD I CAN DO A QUICK SEARCH
TALK ABOUT VACCINE
EFFECTIVENESS YOU KNOW THE
WORDS MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS
BUT SAYING THE SUBJECT WAS
ECONOMICS COME I WOULD BE
HARD-PRESSED TO EXACTLY KNOW
WHO IS AN EXPERT OF MACRO
ECONOMICS AND WHO ISN'T THAT'S
A SITUATION THE PUBLIC IS IN.
IT BREAKS DOWN THE STRATEGIES
USED TO MANIPULATE SO WHEN YOU
TEACH PEOPLE THE STRATEGY THEY
SEE THEM EVERYWHERE IN THAT
CONTEXT OF ONE-ON-ONE
DISCUSSION HOW YOU COME TO ME
I JUST DON'T BUY IT I DON'T
SEE HOW THE VACCINES CAN BE
SAFE.
I CAN TELL SAYING NO, THAT'S
NOT TRUE THE CONVERSATION WILL
NOT GO ANYWHERE.
BUT I CAN SIDELINED THE TOPIC
TO PUT VACCINES.
BUT WE BELIEVE IN CLIMATE
CHANGE PERK YOU ARE CONCERNED
ABOUT THE POLAR BEARS AND THE
ICEBERGS.
PEOPLE HAVE USED THE STRATEGY
OF FAKE EXPERTS TO MAKE PEOPLE
BELIEVE CLIMATE CHANGES AND
HAPPENING.
BUT THEY CHERRY PICK THE DATA.
SO THAT SLIGHTLY DIFFUSES THE
CONVERSATION NOW WE TALKED
ABOUT SOMETHING WE SEE EYE TO
EYE LIKE I AM SEEING PEOPLE
LIE AND CALL IT A HOAX AND
THEY USE THE SCIENTIST.
IT GIVES YOU MORE OF AN
UMBRELLA PROTECTION AND
CLIMATE CHANGE WAS OUR EXAMPLE
LIKE GUN CONTROL OR OTHER
TOPICS THAT THE PERSON WHO IS
INFORMED OF THE UNDERLYING
STRATEGIES WITH A SLIGHTLY
DIFFERENT MINDSET THAT IS A
FEW OF THE BEST PRACTICES I
FIND EXCITING WITH EVIDENCE
THERE ARE MANY MORE WE CAN GET
INTO BUT THOSE ARE THE MOST
EXCITING.
>> MALIHA: THAT IS INTERESTING
ESPECIALLY PRE- BUNKING WITH
TRUSTED OPINION LEADERS AND
WHEN THOSE COULD BE IT'S NOT A
DIFFICULT FIX.
>> DR. YASMIN: EVEN IN THE
CONTEXT OF A NOVEL PATHOGEN
AND TO HAVE STUDIED THIS IT IS
THE SAME CONSPIRACY THEORIES
AND FALSEHOODS THAT SPREAD TO
SWITCH OUT THE NAME OF THE
PATHOGEN.
AND THE RESEARCHERS AND THEN
WHO GOT OUT TO CAUSE THE
EPIDEMIC.
IT IS PREDICTABLE WHAT
FALSEHOODS ARE SPREAD.
AND THEN TO FIND OUT ALREADY
WHAT ARE THE EXISTING CONCERN.
IN THE BEFORE THEY SAY TO BE
UNREALISTIC I'M WRITING A
PAPER.
WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT SOUTH
AFRICAN PUBLIC HEALTH AGENCIES
DURING COVID.
YOU WERE ALREADY TAXED AND
UNDER RESOURCED.
SO AT THE HEIGHT OF COVID AS
VACCINATIONS ARE ROLLED OUT SO
TO DO THE QUICK AND DIRTY
SURVEYS AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL.
JUST GATHER INTEL WITH THIS
PROVINCE IT LOOKS LIKE MUSLIM
COMMUNITIES THAT THERE ARE
PORK PRODUCTS IN THE VACCINE
BUT THIS AREA CAUSES
INFERTILITY AND THEY ARE
WORRIED ABOUT PREGNANT PEOPLE.
SO YOU CAN TALK AT YOUR
MESSAGING THAT IS MEANINGFUL
TO SAY HEY EVERYONE IT DOESN'T
CAUSE AUTISM MORE IMMEDIATE
HEART ATTACKS.
I HOPE TO SHARE MORE ABOUT
THAT BUT LOOK UP THE SOUTH
AFRICAN RESPONSE.
IS IT IS DEMONSTRATES YOU CAN
BE INVOLVED BUT STILL GATHER
INTELLIGENCE AT THE HEIGHT OF
A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.
>> MALIHA: ABSOLUTELY IT
REMINDS ME OF A QUOTATION FROM
ONE OF THE FIELD TEAMS AND SHE
ALWAYS SAYS THE PROBLEM LIES
IN THE COMMUNITY THE SOLUTION
LIES IN THE COMMUNITY.
BUT THEY HAVE TO DELVE INTO
THAT.
VERY FASCINATING.
THERE IS SO MUCH TO UNPACK.
YOU HAVE LOOKED AT NEWS
DESERTS ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES WITH INDIVIDUAL AND
PUBLIC HEALTH TELL US ABOUT
YOUR SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF
HEALTH.
>> DR. YASMIN: I WENT TO
JOURNALISM SCHOOL BECAUSE I
REALIZED BECAUSE THE CDC WAS
NOT DOING ENOUGH TO ADDRESS
ANTI- SCIENCE ANTI- VACCINE
MOVEMENTS.
TIME I WAS SENT OUT TO A
DIFFERENT OUTBREAK IT WAS A
VERY SINGULAR FOCUS ON THE
PATHOGEN THAT WE WERE IGNORING
THE FACT THERE WERE THESE
ANTIGOVERNMENT AND TIE CDC
MESSAGES BEING SPREAD PROGRESS
I WENT TO JOURNALISM SCHOOL TO
TALK ABOUT CONTAGION HOW NOW
WE CAN BE USED TO PROTECT
PUBLIC HEALTH.
SO WITH THE NEWS DOES IT WHEN
MANY PLACES HAVE LOST LOCAL
NEWS INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND GET "THE NEW YORK
TIMES", CNN AND BUT YOU MISS A
LOT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT
DEEPLY ROOTED LOCAL JOURNALISM
ON.
AND THERE ARE VERY REAL
CONSEQUENCES OF A NEWS DESERT.
AND THEN YOU LOSE YOUR LOCAL
NEWSPAPER AS YOUR TAXES GO UP
$85 PER PERSON PER
YEAR, MEASUREMENT OF
GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION AND
EFFICIENCY WORSEN.
AND FEWER PEOPLE RUN FOR
OFFICE FOR EACH AVAILABLE
POSITION.
AND THOSE COMPANIES THAT LEND
MONEY TO MUNICIPALITIES LIKE
HOSPITALS CHARGE HIGHER
INTEREST RATES TO A TOWN THAT
DOES NOT HAVE A ROBUST LOCAL
NEWS AND POLARIZATION AND
COHESION ARE WORSEN THOSE
PLACES.
IT MAKES SENSE.
PEOPLE ARE NOT AWARE WHO TO
VOTE FOR YOU DON'T HAVE THAT
LOCAL REPORTING FOR CITY HALL
MEETING.
OF COURSE THAT MAKES SENSE BUT
WITH THAT DEMOCRACY FOR YOUR
PUBLIC HEALTH IT IS STILL
ONGOING FOR THOUSANDS OF NEWS
DESERTS AND GROWING BECAUSE OF
A LACK OF INVESTMENT WITH THE
TERRIBLE BUSINESS MODEL AND
LOOKING AT THINGS LIKE VACCINE
COVERAGE RATES LIKE NEWS
DESERTS VERSUS PLACES THAT ARE
NOT.
LOOKING AT LIFE EXPECTANCY.
LOOKING AT COVID AND OTHER
ACADEMICS TALKING ABOUT
DISPARITIES IN HEALTH, TALK
ABOUT EARLY COVID WE SAW BLACK
KANSANS WERE SEVEN TIMES MORE
LIKELY TO DIE OF COVID THAN
THE WHITE NEIGHBORS BUT WE
WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT EQUITY
AND ACCESS TO INFORMATION THAT
WAS FACT CHECKED INCREDIBLE.
WE HAVE A PRESIDENT TALKED
ABOUT AND UPTICK TO POISON
CONTROL CENTERS PERHAPS
BECAUSE OF THAT ARE OTHERS BUT
THEY ARE REAL CONSEQUENCES
WHAT LEVEL OF DATA YOU HAVE
ACCESS TO.
IT'S AN AREA OF INTEREST TO
ME.
AND THEN TO DO REVIEW OF
SITUATION AND EQUITY AND
ACCESS AS A SOCIAL
DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH.
BUT IT'S VERY FOCUSED ON THE
DIGITAL DIVIDE.
AND RESEARCH IS LOOKING AT A
BROADER DEFINITION IS NOT JUST
ABOUT ACCESS BUT WHAT THE
LITERACY LEVELS ARE IN THE
COMMUNITY AND IF IT NEEDS ARE
BEING MET.
BUT THE POWERFUL RELATIONSHIP
AND THE HEALTH OUTCOMES AND
WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.
AND THEN HEALTH CARE ACCESS
AND WHY IT IS SO LAYERED.
AND THEN TO SEE ISLAM BE VERY
BADLY REPRESENTED.
LIKE "THE NEW YORK TIMES" FOR
EXAMPLE IF THEY ARE COVERING A
STORY ABOUT A CRIME THEY ARE
700 PERCENT MORE LIKELY TO BE
LISTED AS A MUSLIM SO THEN YOU
GREW UP WITH THAT BUT DURING
COVID WHEN I HAVE FAMILY
MEMBERS WHO ARE ON THE FENCE
ABOUT GETTING THE COVID
VACCINE THAT THEY HAD ACCESS
TO IT AND BECAUSE THEY HAD
SUCH A DEEP-SEATED DISTRUST IN
JOURNALISM AND THEY WOULD
BUTCHER THE FAITH OVER AND
OVER IS ME GOING I KNOW THEY
DON'T ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT.
THIS IS A GOOD ARTICLE ON
COVID VACCINES.
IT IS COMPLEX BUT INFORMATION
ACCESS IS A POWERFUL SOCIAL
DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH I HOPE
WE TO ESTABLISH THAT.
>> THAT IS SO TRUE JUST TO THE
OTHER POINTS THE LOCAL PAPERS
WERE ALSO TRUSTED SOURCES OF
INFORMATION.
THEY COULD HELP RESEARCHERS
IDENTIFY WHO ARE THE OPINION
LEADERS IN THE COMMUNITY WITH
TRUSTED SOURCE OF INFORMATION
AS WELL IS RESEARCHERS WE ARE
LOSING THEM IT'S VERY
FASCINATING GOING BACK TO
FOCUSING ON COMMUNICATION WITH
THAT SCIENTIFIC PROCESS IS
NAVIGATING UNCERTAINTY.
IF IT IS TRANSMITTED FROM THE
ANIMAL TO A HUMAN DURING COVID
BUT IT CAN HAVE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES.
WHAT ARE ALTERNATIVE WAYS FOR
SCIENTISTS TO SPEAK TRUTHFULLY
ABOUT SCIENCE QUICK.
>> DURING COVID ASKING TO
TROUBLESHOOT AT A MOMENTS
NOTICE.
AND NOW WHAT IS TRENDING ON
TWITTER AND THEN TO TALK ABOUT
THAT APPROACH BUT THEN TO
ANSWER THE QUESTION WITH THAT
UNSEXY WORK.
OTHERWISE WE END UP IN A
PANDEMIC TO PLAY CATCH UP WITH
EVERYONE ABOUT WHAT A VACCINE
AND HOW IT WORKS.
DOCTOR FAUCI SAID AND THEN
SHORTLY AFTER THE MESSAGING
AND THEN TO MAKE THE MASKS AT
HOME.
AND WITH THAT EMERGING DATA OF
THE PUBLIC POLICY SHOULD BE
WITH THE BEST AVAILABLE
INFORMATION.
SO MANY PEOPLE I SPOKE TO AND
YOU AS WELL SOMEWHERE A MASK
THEN SOME DO NOT.
AND THAT DOES A DISSERVICE IN
TERMS OF NOT EXPLAINING THE
SCIENTIFIC PROCESS AND THEN IT
IS THE WHOLE PROCESS OF HOW WE
COME TO THESE ANSWERS AND HOW
THEY EVOLVE.
BUT THEN TO START SO YOUNG.
AND THEN TO BUILD THOSE
SKILLS.
WHAT OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE
TO PEOPLE IT IS A HIGH PROFILE
ATHLETE AND VACCINE THAT
CAUSED MYOCARDITIS BUT WHAT
THEY CAN SPREAD VERY QUICKLY
THE OF THE LICENSE TO DO THIS
IS SPEAK WITH SUCH AUTHORITY.
AND IN THE MEANTIME IT'S LIKE
THAT LIKE THE MEASLES OUTBREAK
SITUATION AND THEN WILLING TO
DO DUE DILIGENCE.
AND WE OFTEN DON'T WANT TO
SPEAK UNTIL WE HAVE A VERY
HIGH LEVEL OF CERTAINTY.
AND THAT INTO WHICH THE
CONSPIRACY THEORIST AND PEOPLE
WITH THE THEY THAT WOULD JUMP
INTO AND FULFILLED HUMAN
BRAINS NEED TO CONNECT THE
DOTS TO HAVE SOMEONE MAKE
SENSE OF THIS AND WITH THAT
AWFUL INCIDENT IN HOUSTON TWO
YEARS AGO WITH THAT BIG
CONCERT DURING WHICH FANS DIED
SO WHY WOULD THIS HAPPEN NOW?
WHY WASN'T THERE GOOD CROWD
CONTROL AND WHY WAS IT
DIFFICULT FOR THE AMBULANCE TO
GET THERE?
IT WAS DEVASTATION AND CHAOS
AND THEN HAVING PRESS
CONFERENCES HAVE MORE
INFORMATION BY THE TIME THEY
DID THAT WHAT HAD ALREADY GONE
VIRAL ON TIKTOK THE VIDEO
SAYING IT WAS ALL PART OF A
SATANIC RITUAL AND IT SOUNDS
SILLY IT WAS ALWAYS A CROWD
CONTROL ISSUE AND THE ISSUE
WITH PC NOT SATANIC RITUALS OR
THE SACRIFICES BUT IT IS A
REMINDER ALL THE TIME THESE
CONSPIRACY THEORIES SPREAD
BECAUSE IT WORKS LIKE A
SECURITY BLANKET AND THIS IS
HOW THE CHILD DIED HOW COULD
THIS HAPPEN THEY ARE OFFERING
TO CONNECT THE DOTS TO GIVE A
COMPLETE STORY SO THAT IS WHY
WE HAVE TO GET MORE
COMFORTABLE EXPLORING
CERTAINTY AND UNCERTAINTY
INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO
OURSELVES TO MAKE A STATEMENT
ONCE WE KNOW ALL OF THIS WHEN
I WAS DOING A TRAINING FOR WHO
LEADERS ONE YEAR AGO I WAS
TALKING ABOUT BEING MORE
PUBLIC FACING AND FOR EXAMPLE
ONE OF THEIR FACES JUST
DROPPED HE LOOKS SAD AND
HORRIFIED AND TO SAY WHAT ARE
YOU THINKING RIGHT NOW?
IF WE TAKE YOUR APPROACH TO
SAY MY LEVEL OF CERTAINTY IS
THIS, THEN WE HAVE TO GO BACK
TO PEOPLE AND SAY WE WERE
WRONG.
AND THE FACT THAT BUILDING
TRUST REQUIRES TRANSPARENCY
AND THEN TO TAKE THIS
INFORMATION HERE'S WHAT I
THINK NOW OR WHAT I'M LOOKING
AT.
THAT BUILDS THE TRUST WE TALK
OURSELVES INTO A DANGEROUS
SPOT OF BECOMING THE ALL
KNOWING SCIENTIST.
SPEAKING WITH ASSUREDNESS.
BUT MY THINKING AND I'M HAPPY
IF OTHERS DISAGREE BUT THAT WE
TRIP UP A BIT MORE.
FROM THOSE WHO ARE NOT OUR
PEERS.
YOU GET TO THE END OF THE
SLIDE WITH THE CONCLUSIONS WE
COME TO.
HERE ARE 17 LIMITATIONS BUT WE
ARE GOOD AT DOING THAT.
BUT WE HAVE PUT OURSELVES INTO
AN UNCOMFORTABLE AND SAD
SITUATION I MUST BE THE ALL
KNOWING SCIENTIST AND ALWAYS
BE RIGHT THEY WILL DECAPITATE
ME IF I AM WRONG.
KNOW.
BE HONEST ABOUT THE SCIENTIFIC
PROCESS.
>> MALIHA: BUILDING TRUST
REQUIRES COMPLETE
TRANSPARENCY.
THAT WAS A VERY GREAT
STATEMENT.
>> DR. YASMIN: WE SAW THAT
DONE WELL AT SOME PARTS OF THE
EBOLA EPIDEMIC WHEN TOM
FRIEDMAN WAS DIRECTOR CDC AND
THE PRESS CONFERENCE ALLOWED
HIM TO SAY I SAID ABC
YESTERDAY AND IT TURNS OUT IT
WAS DEF.
I AM SORRY.
IT WAS THIS.
IT FELT LIKE MORE OF A
COLLABORATIVE COMMUNICATION IT
WAS NOT ALL PERFECT HAVE MANY
CRITIQUES BUT THAT PART I SAID
THIS YESTERDAY DID NOT
TRANSPIRE, IS PART THAT GOES
TOWARDS THE TRANSPARENCY I AM
TALKING ABOUT.
>> MALIHA: HOW SCIENTIST CAN
SPEAK MORE TRUTHFULLY IF
AUDIENCE MEMBERS ARE
INTERESTED TO EXPAND THE
PUBLIC BUT IT COULD BE
DISTRACTING FROM THE ACTUAL
SCIENCE OR THEY MAY LOSE
RESPECT FROM PEERS.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON
THESE CONCERNS?
>> DR. YASMIN: THEY ARE STILL
CONCERNS THEY ARE DIMINISHING
WHEN I FIRST WENT TO
JOURNALISM SCHOOL TEN YEARS
AGO, I SAW SUCH COMMITTEES
SEEKING OUT FOR THOSE ACADEMIC
POSITIONS THING SHE WROTE A
BOOK FOR THE PUBLIC AND THAT
WORKED AGAINST CARL SAGAN.
WE DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS A
BACKLASH AGAINST HIM SO THAT
WAS A KNOWLEDGE GAP FOR ME.
OF COURSE THAT DOES EXIST.
WITH THAT WORLD OF SCIENCE
COMMUNICATION WHETHER TIKTOK
TO BE AVAILABLE TO BE
INTERVIEWED AND TO SAY TO
PEOPLE WITH AN INTEREST FIND
YOUR NICHE AND BIT BY BIT
HELPS TO BUILD THOSE
CONNECTIONS THOSE COMMUNITIES
THEY MAY NOT HAVE HAD
LONG-STANDING RELATIONSHIPS.
I WOULD BE ENCOURAGING OF THAT.
>> MALIHA: THIS WAS AMAZING.
WE HAVE A VERY SHORT AMOUNT OF
TIME.
THERE SO MUCH HERE THAT NEEDS
TO BE UNPACKED BUT THANK YOU
FOR SPEAKING WITH US.
WE HAVE A A FEW MINUTES IF YOU
LIKE TO TAKE QUESTIONS FROM
THE AUDIENCE.
WHILE IN NURSING SCHOOL HAD
THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPLETE A
COMMUNITY HEALTH ROTATION AND
ONE STRATEGY THEY USED WAS
COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS
SERVING AS VOLUNTEERS
SUFFERING FROM HIV THEY WERE
ADHERING TO THEIR MEDICATION
REGIMENT I FELT THIS IS A
STRATEGY THAT COULD BE USEFUL
TO CONVEY INFORMATION FROM
PEOPLE WHO ARE FAMILIAR TO AND
EMBEDDED HOW TO UTILIZE
COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS MORE
IN THIS CAPACITY?
>> DR. YASMIN: THANK YOU FOR
SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCE.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN INDIA
WITH COMMUNITY HEALTH WORKERS.
THERE ARE WAYS TO DO THIS ON
THE GROUND BUT AT A HIGHER
LEVEL WE NEED THE PARADIGM
SHIFT THE WAY WE TEACH
COMMUNICATIONS.
WITH THAT ATTITUDE OF HOW WE
COMMUNICATE AND WHO SHOULD BE
THE TRUSTED MESSENGER.
AND AS YOU ARE HIGHLIGHTING
THESE TWO HAVE LIVED
EXPERIENCES WITH VERY CLOSE
RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE
COMMUNITIES THAT THEY SERVED
MORE INTEGRATED THAN THEY
WOULD NEVER BE.
THERE HAS TO BE THE GRASSROOTS
EFFORTS.
THERE ARE SOME EFFORTS IN THE
US WORKING WITH LATIN ASK
COMMUNITIES WITH COUNSEL
DETECTION PERK I DON'T KNOW IF
YOU CALL THEM COMMUNITY HEALTH
WORKERS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
TRAINED IN PARTICULAR PROGRAMS
HOW TO DO THIS THERE WOULD BE
AWESOME BEST PRACTICES TO LEAN
INTO.
IT DEMANDS A BIGGER INVESTMENT
ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND THAT IS
AN UPHILL BATTLE AND THE
STORYTELLING WITH THE LAST
QUESTION COMES INTO PLAY WE
HAVE THE INVISIBILITY PROBLEM
WE HAVEN'T HAD A FIRE IN THIS
TOWN FOR TEN YEARS SO LET'S
DEFUND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT MAY
HAVE BEEN GOING OUT TO SCHOOLS
AND TEACHING FIRE SAFETY BUT
WITH PUBLIC HEALTH SOMETIMES
WE ARE SO INVISIBLE IT LOOKS
LIKE WE ARE NOT NEEDED BECAUSE
IT IS BEHIND THE SCENES WORK.
AND THEN THAT PROCESS OF HOW
WE DEVELOP TREATMENTS IT GOES
TOWARDS THE BIGGER EFFORT TO
BUILD TRUST.
>> MALIHA: YOU PROBABLY WILL
NOT BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE
CHAT BUT THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE PUTTING IN
EXAMPLES OF COMMUNITY HEALTH
WORKERS.
>> DR. YASMIN: I WAS EVEN
THINKING OF AN INITIATIVE OF
BARBERSHOPS.
THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM BLOOD
PRESSURE CHECKS AND PROSTATE
CANCER AWARENESS AND HIV
TESTING COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS
AND FREE IN THE BARBERSHOP
THERE IS A LOT WE CAN LEAN
INTO BUT I THINK THOSE ARE
POWERFUL EFFORTS.
EVENTUALLY IT DOES START TO
CONNECT PEOPLE WITH THE
HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
>> MALIHA: GREAT PRESENTATION
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS OF
OTHER LANGUAGES AND MITIGATION
APPROACHES LIKE THINKING OF
MULTILEVEL APPROACHES
MODERATION OF SOCIAL MEDIA
RESPONSIBILITY OF DIGITAL
LITERACY AND ALSO ON THAT AI
BOTS BUT I WILL BREAK IT DOWN
TO ANSWER THIS FIRST.
>> DR. YASMIN: THERE HAS SOME
BEEN GOOD REPORTING OF CONTENT
MODERATION VARIES WHEN IT
COMES TO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES
SHOWING A PROLIFERATION AND
SPANISH-LANGUAGE THAT PERHAPS
IS NOT CAPTURED AS WELL THIS
SPEAKS TO DIVERSITY JUST BEING
A CHECK BOX ISSUE TO NEED MORE
HANDS ON DECK WITH THOSE
CAPABILITIES TO ENGAGE IN WORK
WITH THIS ALSO A REMINDER THE
HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND
HEALTHCARE WORKERS PERHAPS ARE
NOT THE ONES THAT SHED COUNTER
ALL OF THAT WHEN I GIVE
LECTURES ON THIS I HAVE THE
SLIDE WITH A THREE-PRONGED
APPROACH IT'S NOT A QUICK FIX
EITHER TO TALK ABOUT
GOVERNMENTS ROLE OF TEACHING
DIGITAL LITERACY EARLY ON
THAT'S WHY A WROTE THE BOOK I
DID NOT FEEL THERE WAS A
ENOUGH THERE TEACHERS TELLING
ME TO TEACH LITERACY BUT I DID
NOT KNOW HOW SO THERE IS A
CURRICULUM AND LESSON PLANS
BUT ALSO THE GOVERNMENTS ROLE
IN REGULATING THE BIG SOCIAL
MEDIA BUT NOT ALL SOCIAL MEDIA
IS DESIGNED THE SAME WAY.
BUT THERE ARE THE FOR PROFIT
ORGANIZATIONS.
THE MORE POLARIZING THE
GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION AND WE
NEED IT FAST.
YOU CAN LOOK UP GROUPS FROM CC
DH ESPECIALLY DURING COVID
THEY ARE THE ONES WHO COMPILED
THE REPORTS SO THE 12 PEOPLE
ON TWITTER WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE
SPREADING 65 PERCENT OF THE
LIES ABOUT COVID AND SOME ARE
SCIENTIST WHO WERE DISCREDITED
AND THOSE WHO WERE VERY WELL
RESPECTED SPEWING FALSEHOODS
WE COULD TALK ANOTHER HOUR BUT
IT DOES REQUIRE THE APPROACH
OF GOVERNMENT AND THEN THE
INDIVIDUAL LEVEL IT'S WHY I
WROTE WHAT THE TO CREATE TOOLS
TO HELP PEOPLE DEVELOP THE
LITERACY SO THEY ARE NOT AS
VULNERABLE.
>> MALIHA: WE HAVE ONE MORE
QUESTION.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED
IN THIS TOPIC THERE IS A
CONCERN RECENT ADVANCES IN
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WILL
RESULT IN THE EXPLOSION OF
MISINFORMATION AI CAN CARRY ON
CONVERSATIONS AND CONVINCE
THEM WHICH CAN CHANGE THE
OUTCOME HOW CAN THIS BE
COUNTERACTED?
>> DR. YASMIN: TEACHING PEOPLE
WHAT IS POSSIBLE AND BUILDING
UP THE LEVEL IN THE ROLE OF
COGNITIVE IMMUNOLOGY IT'S LIKE
PAINTING A PICTURE AND THEN
LIKE A SEESAW ON THE
PLAYGROUND AND THEN A HEALTHY
LEVEL OF SKEPTICISM.
SO IT IS ABOUT BUILDING THE
INDIVIDUAL LEVEL BUT EVERYONE
JUST NEEDS TO BE ON THE
LITERACY SCALE WITH THOSE
POLICY EFFORTS AND
GOVERNMENTWIDE EFFORTS TO MAKE
SURE THIS IS IMPLEMENTED SO
PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF WHAT AI
CAN DO.
AND FROM THAT RESEARCH TO
GENERATE FALSE HEADLINES AND
THOSE WHO THEY THINK THEY ARE
TALKING TO IS A DEEP FAKE OR
THAT THE SCIENTIST REALLY IS
NOT SAYING THAT BUT THE
APPROACH THAT DOESN'T JUST
TURN EVERYONE I DON'T BELIEVE
ANYTHING I SEE OR READ OR HEAR
CAN ALSO BE HARMFUL.
I WILL END THAT THERE IS A
REALLY GOOD STUDY THAT CAME
OUT UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA
AND 2021 SO SCIENCES SO COOL
WHAT THEY DID IN THE STUDY IS
TO SAY YAY SCIENCE I DON'T
TRUST THE SCIENTIST AND THEN
WHAT THEY STUDIED IS PEOPLE'S
PROPENSITY TO FALL FOR THE
FALSEHOODS THAT THEY ARE
SPREADING THE FALSEHOODS AND
IT TURNED OUT THOSE WHO SAID
YES WERE MORE LIKELY TO FALL
FOR THE PSEUDOSCIENCE.
AND SO WHAT HOPE IS THERE BUT
THERE IS HOPE.
THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT.
I REMAIN VERY OPTIMISTIC
ESPECIALLY WORKING WITH YOUNG
PEOPLE NOW.
SO ANY OF THE EFFORTS EVERYONE
LOVES SCIENCE.
KNOW.
DEVELOPING THE CRITICAL
THINKING SKILLS TO SEE WHAT IS
HELPFUL WHAT COULD BE
MISLEADING PSEUDOSCIENCE THE
ENDGAME IS NOT THE TRUST BUT
THE ABILITY TO HAVE THOSE DEEP
INFORMED CONVERSATIONS THAT IS
LITERATE IN SCIENCE, HEALTH
AND CAN MAKE INFORMED
DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR HEALTH.
AND HAVING ACCESS TO THE
INFORMATION.
>> MALIHA: THERE IS A LOT IN
THE CHAT THE CITATION FOR THE
BARBER AS WELL.
AND THEN TO SPEAK TO FAMILY
MEMBERS.
WE ARE AT THE TOP OF THE HOUR.
ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID THIS
VERY WELL THANK YOU FOR
SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE IT WAS
GREAT TO HEAR YOUR EXPERIENCE
AND APPROACH WE HAVE A LOT TO
THINK ABOUT AFTER TODAY.
MY COLLEAGUE CAPTURE THAT VERY
WELL FOR ALL OF US.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR
JOINING OUR FIRST BLS-HERO
LECTURE AND LISTENING TO DR.
YASMIN FIRESIDE CHAT.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING.
>> DR. YASMIN: THANK YOU FOR
HAVING ME.