IT'S TIME TO START THE AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE ON POPULATION SCIENCES DISPARITIES VIRTUAL MEETING. THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING BEING VIDEO CAST AND RECORDED. MENTAL OF THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD WISH TO DISCUSS VIEWS, MAY DO SO BY WRITING TO DR. PAULETTE GRAY, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY OF THE NCAB. WITHIN 10 DAYS OF THE MEETING. ANY WRITTEN STATEMENTS OR QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO RECEIVED CAREFUL CONSIDERATION. THE FOLLOWING SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS ARE PARTICIPATING. THE CHAIR -- THERE IS A QUORUM. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PROCESS? OK. HEARING NONE. YOU MAY NOW BEGIN THE MEETING. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JOY. WELCOME, EVERYBODY, TO OUR AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING. I HOPE YOU ALL HAD A NICE THANKSGIVING AND BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO DR. WIN, I WANT TO RE FRESH EVERYBODY'S MIND IN TERMS OF WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN SEPTEMBER AND SET YOU UP FOR THE NEXT PRESENTATION THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HEAR. WE TALKED ABOUT A PORTFOLIO ANALYSIS ON THE CHOSEN POPULATION GROUP. IT WAS TO PRESENT AT THIS SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING. OUR TASK, AS YOU WILL SEE ON THE AGENDA THEN, IS TO DISCUSS A FORMAL WORKING GROUP CHARGE AND THEN DECIDE WHAT AREAS OF EXPERTISE ARE NEEDED FOR THE WORKING GROUP TODAY ALSO. AND WE, AT THE LAST MEETING, TALKED ABOUT WHICH POPULATION GROUP WE WOULD INCLUDE AND I PROPOSED AVENUE AMERICANS AND BLACKS ARE THE LARGER GROUP. THERE WERE SUGGESTIONS FOR HISPANICS, ASIAN PACIFIC ISLANDERS AND NATIVE AMERICANS AND YOU WILL SEE TODAY, IN THE PRESENTATION, THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK THAT HAS GONE INTO A REPORT FOR THE AFRICAN AMERICAN/BLACK POPULATION. I THINK YOU WILL THEN APPRECIATE GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF WORK AND THE TIMEFRAME, THAT WE COULD NOT ADD ANOTHER POPULATION GROUP TO BE PRESENTED TODAY. WE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT AT END OF OUR MEETING. AGAIN, I JUST REALLY, REALLY WANT TO THANK DR. MICHELLE BENNETT AND HER TEAM AND THE OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR AND FOR THE WORK THEY PUT INTO WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE TODAY. WELCOME AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT OVER TO DR. WHIM. WHO MIGHT HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT. ARE YOU GOING TO DO YOUR ANNOUNCEMENT NOW? >> OK. SO, THANK YOU. I WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT I'LL BE RETIRING AT THE END OF JANUARY OF 2021. SO, THIS WILL BE MY LAST SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING AS A DESIGNATED EXECUTIVE SECRETARY OF THE GROUP. I'M GOING TO MISS BEING PART OF -- MISS THIS ROLE, HOWEVER, AFTER RETIREMENT, I WILL BE RETURNING AS A SPECIAL VOLUNTEER, WHICH MEANS I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO. I'M HAPPY TO HELP WITH THE COMMITTEE AS WE GO FORWARD. SO, I DID WANT TO MENTION THAT WE HAVE ALREADY A WONDERFUL REPLACEMENT AND THAT WOULD BE PHIL CASTLE, PHIL CASTLE IS THE PERSON WHO IS NOW THE DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF CANCER PREVENTION. HE ARRIVED IN JULY OF THIS YEAR AND RELIEVED MY OF MY ACTING DIVISION DIRECTOR RESPONSIBILITIES. HE IS A VERY ENERGETIC AND DYNAMIC PERSON. HE HAS BEEN VERY VISH ARY SO FAR AND HE HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF TRYING TO GET TO KNOW A DIVISION WITHOUT ACTUALLY BEING IN THE FILL PRESENCE OF ANYONE. HE WAS A SENIOR INVESTIGATOR IN THE DIVISION OF CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY AND JEANETTE TICKS ANGENETICS AND HEIS LOOKING FORWARD TO MAK ING LOTS OF CONNECTIONS AND ALREADY IS WITH ACROSS THE NCI. AND THE MINUTE I TOLD HIM THAT I, AS I WAS RETIRING, WE WOULD NEED A REPLACEMENT, HE VOLUNTEERED. SO I THINK THAT'S A TERRIFIC SIGN AND HE IS GOING TO BE EXCITED TO STEP INTO THIS ROLE AND WORK WITH US. >> BEFORE YOU MOVE ON, I JUST REAL OH REALLY WANT TO THANK YOU YOU. >> YOU DID A READ JOB SPEARHEADING THIS AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE PHENOMENAL WORK YOU'VE DONE. I WILL MISS YOU, WE WILL MISS YOU. I HOPE AS COME BACK AS A SPECIAL VOLUNTEER, WE CAN WORK TOGETHER. WE MADE THIS AND I WANT TO WELCOME PHIL CASTLE, I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU AND WELCOME TO OUR GROUP. SO, THANK YOU AGAIN, DEBBIE, CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR RETIREMENT ALSO. >> THANK YOU. >> OK. NOW ONTO THE MAIN ATTRACTION, WHICH IS THE PRESENTATION BY MELISSA ANTMAN FOR THE CENTER OF RESEARCH STRATEGIES AND MYSELF AND SHE HAS WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE CENTER FOR RESEARCH STRATEGY STRATEGY. WE'RE GOING TO PRESENTING TALKING THE PRODUCT OF THE WORK IN XL SPREAD SHEET WITH A LISTING OF GRANTS WE THINK ARE RELEVANT TO UNDERSTANDING THE RESEARCH ON AFRICAN AMERICANS AND BLACKS AND WE HAVE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS WHERE WE DISCUSSED DIFFERENT PORTFOLIO ANALYSIS THAT NCI AND NIH HAVE DONE ON MINORITIES AND UNDER-SERVED POPULATIONS. THOSE ARE ALL DONE FOR VERY SPECIALIZED PURPOSES, SUCH AS REPORTING TO CONGRESS, AND INCLUDING OTHER INFORMATION THAT IS NOT SIMPLY ABOUT RESEARCH ON A POPULATION BUT ABOUT TRAINING ACTIVITIES, BUILDING THE NEXT GENERATION OF RESEARCHERS WHO ARE MINORITY OR UNDERSERVED FROM COMMUNITIES WELLS UNDERSTANDING ENROLLMENT AND THAT SORT OF THINGS. WE ATTEMPTS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE EXTRAMURAL PORTFOLIO AND UNDERSTANDING GRANTS THAT FOCUS ON AVENUE AMERICANS AND BLACKS AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO TEAR ABOUT THE PROCESS WE USED AND SOME OF THE LIMITATIONS AND THE NUMBER OF DECISIONS THERE ARE MANY TO GO AS PEOPLE TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO THE EXCESS SPREAD SHE'S AND GIVE IDEAS ABOUT WE CONSIDER THIS TO BE A PILOT AND WE TAKE A SIMILAR APPROACH FOR OTHER RACIAL AND ETHNIC GROUPS AND MINORITY POPULATIONS AND UNDER SERVED POPULATION. IT'S A PORTFOLIO ANALYSIS AT THIS POINT AND WE'RE HOPING IT'S THIS WILL GENERATE LOTS OF SCREEN FOR PEOPLE TO BEGIN WORKING ON UNDERSTANDING IN INITIAL SCREEN THAT CAN BE USED BY THE WORKING GROUP THAT THEY WILL ESTABLISH LATER ON IN THIS SESSION. THE GOAL IS TO USE THE LIST TO ENABLE A DETAILED PORTFOLIO ANALYSIS AND UNDERSTAND THE NIH FUNDED LANDSCAPE TO SUPPORT THE GOALS OF A WORKING GROUP ON RESEARCH ON MINORITY POPULATIONS. THE NEXT SLIDE WILL TAKE US TO DR. ANTMAN'S PRESENTATION AND I'LL COME BACK TO THE END. SHE'S FROM THE CENTER FOR RESEARCH STAT GEE. >> THANK YOU, AS DR. WINN MENTIONED I'M GOING TO DESCRIBE THE FIRST STEP. PILOTING AN AUTOMATED APPROACH TO CANCER RESEARCH THAT IS POTENTIALLY RELEVANT OR INVOLVING AVENUE AMERICANS AND BLACKS. AND AS DR. WINN MENTIONED, THIS IS AVAILABLE AS A AN EXCEL SPREAD SHEET ALONG WITH DATA AVAILABLE FOR SHARING WITH WHAT MAY BE AN EVENT ACTUAUAL WORKING GROUP GROUP. THIS IS A ITERATIVE PROCESS SO WE'LL WORKING WITH THE WORKING GROUP TO REFINE THE DEFINITION, APPROACH AND REFINE A SEARCH BASED ON THE PURPOSE OF THE WORKING GROUP AND ITS GOALS. WE STARTED USING AN TO NARROW DOWN SO IT ALL THE PROJECTS THAT NIH CONSIDERS CANCER RESEARCH AND RELEVANT TO AVENUE AMERICANS AND BLACKS AND WE SEARCHED AT MOMENT JUST THE GRANTS AND AND I MENTIONED THIS IS THE WHOLE NIH SO IT INCLUDES CANCER RESEARCH PROJECTS FUNDED BY OTHER ICs AND NEXT SLIDE. PLEASE. SO JUST TO FOCUS A LIT MORE ON THE DETAILS OF THE METHOD, WE FOCUS ON A RELATIVELY STRAIGHT FORWARD, PERHAPS RELATIVELY ESTIMATE POLL APPROACH USING AVAILABLE TOOLS AND DATA THAT WE HAVE AT THE NIH. WE LEVERAGE SOME OF THE AVAILABILITY. THIS IS USED TO CATEGORIZE PROJECTS FROM BUDGET ESTIMATES BUT THEY HAVE TOOLS AVAILABLE THAT WE COULD EASILY LEVERAGED. WE SEARCHED FOR THESE CONCEPTS OF TERMS AND ALL THEIR SIN A ANYMORES IF THEY WERANYMORES IF THEY WERE MENTIONED AND IF THEY WERE, THEY WERE BROUGHT TO OUR PRELIMINARY LIFTS. AFTER THIS FIRST PASS, WE USUALLY CAN UNDERSTAND A LITTLE MORE ABOUT EACH OF THE GRANTS IF WE WANT, THIS COULD HELP SUPPORT THE WORKING GROUP. AS AN EXAMPLE, WE ALSO PUT ANY OF TWO AUTOMATED PROJECT CATEGORY SCHEMES. WE HAVE CANCER TYPES AVAILABLE AT RCDC AND ANOTHER IS AN AUTOMATED MODEL THAT WE HAVE TO ASSIGN A COMMON OUTLINE POS WHICH GIVES US A SENSE OF WHERE THE RESEARCH AND A FINAL AND STAFF MAY HAVE RYE VIEWED THIS LIST IN ORDER TO MAKE INITIAL SUGGESTIONS THAT COULD HELP GUIDE SOME OF THE WORKING GROUP DISCUSSIONS. SO AS I MENTIONED ONE SCHEME THAT WE HAVE AUTOMATED MODELS FOR SO WE CAN ASSIGN THE NEXT MINING APPROACH IS THE COMMON SCIENTIFIC OUTLINE. THIS WAS AN OUTLINE OF WHERE RESEARCH FALLS ALONG A CANCER RESEARCH AND THAT WAS A CANCER RESEARCH OF WAY NCI IS A PARTNER AND THIS JUST WAS ABLE TO CODE PROJECTS IN A SIMILAR WAY ALONG THIS CANCER RESEARCH AND SO THERE ARE SIX OVER ARCHING CSO CODES RANGING FROM BIOLOGY TO NUMBER SIX WHICH IS CANCER CONTROL, SURVIVOR SHIP AND OUTCOMES AND A NUMBER OF SUB CATEGORIES AS WELL THAT WE CAN APPLY TO EACH OF THE PROJECTS IN OUR LIST. THIS CAN BE HELPFUL, AS WE MOVE FORWARD, TO UNDERSTANDING THE PROJECTS IN THIS AREA AND WHERE THE GAPS AND OPPORTUNITIES ARE. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THERE WAS A REVIEW AND THIS IS A COMPONENT AS WE ITS RATE AND REFINE THE APPROACH AND THE LIST ITERATE. THIS WAS A VE VIEW FOR SUGGESTIONS THAT MAY HELP GUIDE DISCUSSION AND REMINEMENT LATER ON AND WE PUT PROJECTS INTO ONE OF THROW CATEGORIES THOSE THAT WE THOUGHT WERE DEFENSE RELEVANT TO THIS POPULATION AND THOSE NOT RELEVANT TO BLACKS OR AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATIONS AND THOSE WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION AVAILABLE FROM THE NEXT THAT WAS EXTRACTED OR DEPENDS ON SOME OF THE OTHER WORKING GROUP GOALS OR WHAT THEY WANTED INCLUDED. IF THERE'S ALSO SOME SUPPLEMENTAL FIELDS WE COULD ADD, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE WORKING GROUP WANTS TO INCLUDE IN THIS LIST. WE REMOVED GROUPS CONFERENCE GRANTS, WHICH AREN'T RESEARCH, T30 CANCER CENTER SUPPORTS GRANTS ARE NOT AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE SURROUNDING THE RESEARCH. AND WE ALSO REMOVED ANY GRANTS THAT WERE SPECIFIC FOR DIVERSIFYING THE WORKFORCE AND IT WAS A TRAINING GRANT. UNLESS THE RESEARCH IN THE TRAINING AREA, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS RELEVANT TO THIS PARTICULAR POPULATION. NEXT SLIDE, AND AS I MENTIONED THIS IS A REALLY AN INITIAL FIRST PASS SO THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS AS DR. WINN MENTIONED, THIS IS NOT A COMPREHENSIVE OR FORMAL PORTFOLIO ANALYSIS IT'S IDENTIFICATION DESIGNED TO SUPPORT THE WORKING GROUP GOALS AND WE'LL REQUIRE SOME REFINEMENT WORKING WITH A WORKING GROUP ON THIS. AND TO BE CLEAR, ALSO, THIS IS COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM THE DEFENSE AND THE APPROACH FOR THE NIH REPORTING ON MINORITY HEALTH AND HEALTH DISPARITIES. AND THIS WAS A TEXT MINING APPROACH RIGHT NOW FOR GRANTS AND SUB PROJECTS ONLY AT FY2020 AT THE TIME WE DID THE INITIAL SEARCH, THE TEXT DATA AND SCIENTIFIC CONTENT FOR THE CONTRACTS AND INTERMURAL PROJECTS WILL NOT AVAILABLE YET IN THE NIH SYSTEMS FOR SEARCH. I SHOULD MENTION ALSO, THAT WE MAY HAVE TO SUPPLEMENT WITH OTHER DATA FIELDS OR OTHER APPROACHES FOR PROJECTS THAT DON'T HAVE RELEVANT OR DESCRIPTION READILY AVAILABLE IN THE TITLE ABSTRACT SPECIFIC AIMS OF THE OVER ARCHING PROJECT AND A CLINICAL TRIAL WITH A NETWORK DESCRIBED BUT THE SPECIFICS OF THE PHYSICAL TRIAL ARE NOT SO TO BRING IN THESE PROJECTS WE WOULD NEED TO IDENTIFY THEM WITHAL INTERPRETIVE METHODS THAT COULD BE HELPED UPON DISCUSSION AND AND FINALLY, SOME FINAL POINTS BEFORE I HAND IT BACK TO DR. WINN ARE POINTS TO CONSIDER. THIS IS DESIGNED TO BE A GUIDE FOR THE WORKING GROUP AND THE LIST CAN BE REFINED WITH THE WORKING GROUP AND A MANUAL COMPONENT MAY BE NEEDED TO HELP DECIDE INCLUSION OR EXCLUSION CRITERIA FROM THIS LIST. WE DO FEEL THIS APPROACH CAN BE APPLIED TO OTHER POPULATION THAT'S MAY BE OF CREDIT TO THIS WORKING GROUP OR SUBCOMMITTEE AND WE CAN ALSO LEVERAGE SOME ALREADY DEFINED POPULATION GROUPS THAT MAYBE OF INTEREST THAT ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE AND THE RCDC CATEGORIZATION. IT WAS POPULATION GROUPS ON BLACKS AND AVENUE AMERICAN AFRICAN AMERICA NS. AND IT'S A SEPARATE AND DIFFERENT APPROACH TO CAPTURE THOSE PROJECTS. AND SO NOW I'LL HAND IT OVER TO DR. WINN. THANK YOU. >> GREAT. WE CAN MOVE ONTO THE NEXT SLIDE. SO, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED A DRAFT LIST OF EXTRAMURAL GRANTS THAT ARE POTENTIALLY RELEVANT. IT INDICATED TO US THAT WE COULD DO THIS WORK BUT IT CLEARLY WILL TAKE BOTH MANUAL AUTOMATED APPROACHES AS WELL AS MANUAL PURATION TO DO IT AND IT WAS A REALLY BROAD SCREEN USING MINING CAPABILITIES SO IT'S A GOOD STARTING POINT. IF YOU GO ONTO THE NEXT SLIDE, SO WHAT COULD BE DONE NEXT? WITH THE FEEDBACK OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND THE DISPARITIES WORKING GROUP, THIS LIST COULD BE USED TO REFINE AND APPROACH THAT WE COULD USE FOR OTHER RACIAL AND ETHNIC GROUPS AND UNDERSERVED POPULATION AND IT COULD BE USED AS A SHORT-TERM LISTING AND TOOL THAT WOULD ENABLE A WORKING GROUP TO GET STARTED AND WE CONTINUE TO PROCEED AND AND IT COULD PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE OF A GOLD-STANDARD SET OF PROJECTS ON RESEARCH ON AFRICAN AMERICANS AND BLACKS THAT COULD THEN BE USED TO HELP FURTHER DEVELOP AUTOMATED METHODS AND TEXT MINING AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WHERE WE CAN GET TO THE POINT THERE COULD BE A MUCH MORE. WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS NOT SUSTAINABLE AND ALSO CANNOT BE REGULARLY REPRODUCED AND DONE ANNUALLY WITHOUT A MUCH MORE AUTOMATED APPROACH. SO, WE'RE HOPING THAT THIS PROVIDES SOME INFORMATION THAT WE CAN USE FOR BOTH THE SHORT TERM NEEDS AND THE LONG-TERM NEEDS. SO, WITH THAT, WE CAN BEGIN TO GENERATE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE LANDSCAPE OF THAT RESEARCH RELEVANT TO THIS POPULATION AND OTHERS AND THE END GOAL IS ELEKTRA HAS ALWAYS KEPT IN MIND, IS TO USE SUCH INFORMATION TO IDENTIFY GAPS AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR FURTHER RESEARCH ON AVENUE AMERICANS AND BLACKS AND OTHER GROUPS BOTH ACROSS THE AND TO STUDIES AND THE SUCCESS OF WHAT WE CAN DO TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES AND HOW WE CAN IMPLEMENT THOSE INTERVENTIONS AS A LATER POINT. SO, WE WILL PROBABLY NEED RESEARCH AGENDAS FOR EACH MINORITY AND UNDER-SERVED GROUP BUT UNDERSTANDING, ONCE AGAIN, THAT THERE ARE MANY OF THOSE AND WE'LL NEED TO HAVE SOME PRIORITIES ABOUT HOW TO GO FORWARD. SO I THINK WITH THAT, WE CAN TAKE QUESTIONS IF PEOPLE HAVE ANY ABOUT THE PROCESS AND TURN IT BACK TO ELEKTRA. I HAVE COMMENTS ALREADY IN THE CHATBOX, SO THAT'S GREAT. >> SO, CAN I SPEAK? >> CONGRATULATIONS. I SEE QUITE SOME EFFORT TO DO THIS. PART OF THE GOAL OF THIS EXERCISE IS TO HELP IDENTIFY GAPS IN RESEARCH AND THE DATA THAT YOU ARE COLLECTING IS IT ANALYZED OR QUARRIED WITH RESPECT TO THE TYPE OF RESEARCH WHETHER IT'S McCAN MECHANISTIC, AND SO ON? IF WE REALLY WANT TO SEE IT? >> ABSOLUTELY. BECAUSE THE EFFORT WAS TO LOOK AT THE SPECIFIC AIMS OF THESE GRANTS, AND THAT WE WERE ABLE TO LOOK AT BOTH THE TITLE AND THE ABSTRACT TO ASCERTAIN THAT, WE COULD LOOK FURTHER INTO EACH OF THE GRANTS AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WAYS OF HOW YOU WANT TO SEE US CATEGORIZE IT AND DEVELOP A CODING SCHEME. ALSO I'LL LET MELISSA COMMENT. >> YEAH, AND AS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, IT'S JUST STARTING TO APPLY THE CSO CODES OR OTHER CATEGORIES THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO THE START AND WE CAN START FILTERING THROUGH THE GRANTS IN THAT WAY. AND THEN WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SCHEMES WE CAN START APPLYING IN AN AUTOMATED WAY AND TO HELP US NARROW DOWN INTO EACH OF THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESEARCH. >> SO YOU ARE CODIFYING EACH OF THE GRANTS? >> RIGHT NOW WE'VE ALREADY APPLIED SORT OF CANCER-TYPE AND THE COMMON SCIENTIFIC OUTLINE WHICH GIVES US SENSE OF WE'RE ALONG THE RESEARCH CONTINUUM BUT THERE'S OTHER MODELS THAT WE COULD POTENTIALLY APPLY AS WELL. >> OK. GREAT. >> I THINK ONE OF THE DIVISION OF POPULATION SCIENCES CANCER DISPARITIES, CODING SYSTEM, WHICH THEY DEVELOPED FOR IN ALL OF THE GRANTS IN THAT DIVISION ARE CATEGORIZED ALONG THOSE LINES AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD BE SUPPLEMENTED WITH OTHER IDEAS THAT WOULD ADDRESS THE FULL SPECTRUM OF NCI RESEARCH AND COULD BE CONSIDERED IN SOME SORT OF AN AUTOMATED SYSTEM DOWN THE LINE. >> WITH THIS APPROACH THAT YOU USED, WHICH WAS VERY COMPREHENSIVE, WERE YOU ABLE TO CAPTURE DIVERSITY SUPPLEMENTS OFF OF AN RO1 FOR EXAMPLE. THAT WOULD BE FOCUSED ON PARTICULAR GROUPS OR RACE ETHNICITY OR IS THAT TOO GRANULAR? >> WHEN A SUPPLEMENT IS COMPETING AND THE DIVERSITY SUPPLEMENTS ARE, WE CAN CAPTURE THEM WITH THIS APPROACH. THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH THIS AUTOMATED EXTRACTED TEXT, IS THAT IF IT IS AN ADMIN SUPPOSE LAMENT, SSUPPLEMENT WHAT NIH CAPTURES IS THE SAME AS THE OVER ARCHING GRANT SO THAT IS A PLACE WHERE, IN PARTICULAR, I THINK THERE WAS A SUGGESTION IN THE CHAT FOR P30 SUPPLEMENTS SO THINKS LITTL THAT'S A LITTL E BIT OF THE PROBLEM WE MAY HAVE TO SUPPOSE LAMENT WIT SUPPLEMENTS. >> ONE MORE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION. YOU MENTIONED THERE WAS A LOT OF HUMAN TIME THAT WAS NEEDED, SO, WHERE WAS THAT SORT OF YOU GOT THE LIST AND SOMEONE REALLY NEEDED TO REVIEW AND VET IT OR WHERE DOES THE EXCESSIVE TIME COME IN? >> THE INITIAL SEARCH IS ACTUALLY REALLY STRAIGHT FORWARD AND QUITE QUICK. AND THEN, IT'S REALLY THE FIRST PASS, WHICH SAY MANUAL REVIEW OF THE PROJECT, REALLY IF THE GROUP WANTED TO CONSIDER THEM AS INCLUDED OR NOT IN THIS LIST. AFTER SORT OF A FIRST MANUAL REVIEW, IT'S POSSIBLE, BASED ON THE DEFINITION THAT A WORKING GROUP COMES UP WITH OR THE INCLUSION OR EXCLUSION CRITERIA THAT WE CAN REFINE THE SEARCH, AND A LITTLE BETTER BUT IT'S LIKELY WITH THIS SORT OF RESEARCH THAT THERE MIGHT ALWAYS BE SOME SORT OF MANUAL VETTING OR COMPONENT. IN THIS CASE, IT WAS REALLY JUST A QUICK REVIEW OF THE TITLE ABSTRACT AND FOR US INTERNALLY THE SPECIFIC AIMS JUST TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE RELEVANT OR NOT. SOME ARE VERY OBVIOUS SO IT'S FAIRLY QUICK. >> I THINK WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT MECHANISMS ARE MISSING OR ARE FROM THIS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ADMIN SO WE'VE NOT DONE THE DEEP DIVE WITHIN THE ABSTRACTS TO OR BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT YET CREATED AND ARE LOOKING TO YOU TO IDENTIFY THE CONTRACTS AND MEASURES THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO CAPTURE IN A DEEP DIVE. A MANUAL DEEP DIVE AT THIS POINT. >> CAN I JUST ADD ONE QUICK POINT, I THINK YOU'VE REALLY DONE AN EXTENSIVE JOB. I WAS JUST WONDERING, WE NEED TO COME UP WITH A WAY TO SUMMARIZE THE DATA YOU'VE GIVEN US IN ORDER IF WE'RE GOING TO BE WANTING TO COMPARE IT WITH OTHER POPULATIONS GROUPS AND WE NEED TO CATEGORIZE AND SUMMARIZE THE DATA INTO CONCRETE GROUPS, OTHERWISE HOW ARE WE USING THIS DATA? >> UNLESS WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS IT'S A GOOD SEGWAY INTO THE FULLER DISCUSSION OF WHERE TO GO FROM HERE. ELEKTRA, DO YOU THINK? >> WELL, A QUICK QUESTION RELATED TO WHAT WAS SAID. I WOULD ASSUME THAT SOME OF THE PROJECTS WILL HAVE NOT JUST AFRICAN AMERICANS BUT ALSO HISPANICS AND OTHER MINORITIES INCLUDED. SO, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DEAL WITH THAT IT WAS AN EXAMPLE BECAUSE ITS INTRINSIC IMPORTANCE IN GENERAL. TO SEE WHATEVER WE CAN DO AND OTHER GROUPS. >> THOUGH WOULD BE PICKED UP IF WE DECIDED TO DO THAT OTHER POPULATION GROUP. BUT THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION. >> THAT COULD COMPLICATE ANALYSIS. >> NO. >> WELL, YES AND NO. I DON'T THINK SO. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT. SO, ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS ARE SUPERB AND IF YOU WILL REMEMBER WE TALKED ALSO ABOUT AFTER WE PRESENTED THIS TO YOU, AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT COULD BE DONE, THAT WE COULD ASK YOU ALL, IF WE COULD FORM, AN AD HOC WORKING GROUP. WE NEED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THIS AND THEN WE WILL NEED TO VOTE ON THIS. YOU ARE ALL SENT A DRAFT CHARGE FOR THIS PROPOSED WORKING GROUP AND INCLUDING THE NAME AND THE FUNCTIONAL STATEMENTS. SO, DID YOU ALL GET THAT IT WAS AN E-MAIL FROM RICARDO? >> >> BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT PUTTING IT ON A POWERPOINT, AND BECAUSE THE MEMBERS WOULD NOT NECESSARILY WANT THAT, WE MAY WANT TO STATE IT OUT LOUD. >> I'LL READ IT. OK. >> WHAT WE ARE PROPOSEING AND WE'RE OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS FOR ALL OF THIS SO I WANT TO MAKE THAT POINT CLEAR. IS THAT THE NAME AND WORKING ON STRATEGIC AMONG NATIONAL AND ETHNIC MINORITIES AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS. THERE'S A TYPO IN THE TITLE THERE. IT WOULD BE OPPORTUNITIES FOR RESEARCH OBJECT CANCER AMONG RACIAL AND ETHNIC MINORITIES AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS. YES, MARGARET. >> I THINK THAT'S A FINE TITLE. I HAVE A DIFFERENT QUESTION AND PERHAPS I NOTICED AMONG THE READING WE GOT WAS AN EXCELLENT REPORT ONE OF THE CROSS CUTTING THEMES WAS ENABLE RESEARCH AND DISPARAGE POPULATIONS SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE COULD PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, INCLUDE SOME OF THOSE MEMBERS OR I JUST WANT TO AVOID DUPLICATING EFFORTS AND THIS IS A DEGREE OF EFFORTS. SO HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AT ALL? >> I JUST SAW THAT REPORT AND. >> I BELIEVE IT'S -- >> RIGHT, GRAHAM AND JUDY GARBETTER. GAR GARBER AND IT WAS ADDRESSING DISPARITIES IN REVENGE AND IT WOULD BE A GOOD WHERE AND CHARGE AND A FUNCTIONAL STATEMENT AND AREAS OF EXPERTISE AND WE CAN PUT SOMEONE FROM THIS WORKING GROUP ON THIS WRACK PUT IT IN OUR SUGGESTION LIST. WE WANT TO GET TIRE INCIDENTS AND MORTALITY AND IT WAS PRETTY WELL DONE AS WELL. >> IT'S A DRAFT WORKING GROUP REPORT AND IT HASN'T BEEN ACCEPTED BY THE BSA YET SO LET'S NOT ADDRESS THE COMMENTS THAT ARE IN THAT WORKING REPORT DURING THE. >> GOOD COMMENT, WE WILL PROCEED WHEN APPROVED. SO, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE TITLE? THOSE ARE OUR FIRST TASKS. >> DEB IS TRYING TO ASK A QUESTION. >> IF YOU NOTICE THE TITLE OF OUR GROUP, IT'S AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS, WHICH INCLUDES A MYRIAD OF UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS THAT SUFFER FROM HEALTH DISPARITIES AND INEQUITY INEQUITIES. >> WE STILL CAN'T HEAR YOU. >> OK. >> YEAH, YEAH, WE'VE GOT IT. WE GOT RURAL, WE GOT LOW SES, WE GOT -- WE WILL THERE'S A PLAN. >> YOU SAID THAT JUST AFTER TO SEND IT AND YOU ARE GREAT. I DO SEE DEB'S QUESTION. AND IS IT OK IF I MOVE ONTO THE FUNCTIONAL STATEMENT? THE NATIONAL CANCER ADVISORY BOARD AD HOC ON EPIDEMIOLOGY AND DISPARITIES WILL CONVENE AN AD HOC WORKING GROUP THAT WILL ADVICE ON STRATEGIC APPROACHES AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR RESEARCH ON CANCER AMONG RACIAL AND ETHNIC MINORITIES AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS. BASICALLY, TAKES THE IN TERMS OF STRATEGIC AND OPPORTUNITIES BEING THE ULTIMATE GOAL. AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE HAS IDENTIFIED THIS AREA OF FOCUS IS HAVING HIGH POTENTIAL IMPACT AND THE WORKING GROUP IS CHARGED WITH IDENTIFYING AND EVALUATING THE CURRENT STATUS, BARRIERS TO PROGRESS, NEW POTENTIAL STRATEGIC APPROACHES, TO BETTER ADDRESS RESEARCH ON RACIAL AND ETHNIC MINORITIES AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS AND POTENTIAL ACTIONS TO IMPLEMENT THE NEW STRATEGIC RESEARCH APPROACHES EFFECTIVELY. SO, IDENTIFYING THE STATUS SO DEBS COMMENT AND THE WORKING GROUP SHOULD ADDRESS CONTEXT SUCH AS SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING. AND, PART OF THAT WILL BE THIS IN-DEPTH RESEARCH PORTFOLIO ANALYSIS AND WE WILL EXAMINE SEVERAL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ALL HAVE MENTIONED TODAY. SO THAT'S THE FIRST CHARGE. IS EVERYBODY OK WITH THE FIRST CHARGE. THE CURRENT STATUS WITH THE CAVEAT I MENTIONED. DO WE NEED TO DEFINE UNDERSERVED? REALLY GOOD QUESTION, ANDREA. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A DEFINITION OF DISPARITY POPULATIONS, POPULATIONS THAT SUFFERED FROM DISPARITIES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE AND I THINK WE SHOULD USE DEFINITION. IT DOES COVER ALL OF THE POPULATIONS THAT YOU WOULD THINK OF. SUSAN, I SAW YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD YES. YOU AGREE WITH THAT? >> I JUST LOOKED IT UP THE OTHER DAY SO THAT'S WHY I WAS CONFIRMING IT WAS THERE AND CONCLUDED BECAUSE I HAVE THE SAME QUESTION AS ANDREA. >> YEAH, YEAH. >> THANK YOU, AN DEGREE A THAT WAS A GOOD QUESTION. PIGGY BACKS ON ODUS' COMMENT. THE SECOND PART OF THE CHARGE IS BARRIERS TO PROGRESS. THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT. IS EVERYBODY OK IF WE LEAVE THAT? >> NEW POTENTIAL STRATEGIC APPROACHES TO BETTER ADDRESS RESEARCH ON RACIAL AND ETHNICAL MINORITIES AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS. AND THE LAST ONE, POTENTIAL ACTIONS TO IMPLEMENT THE NEW STRATEGIC RESEARCH APPROACHES EFFECTIVELY. OF COURSE WE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET INPUT FROM THE NCI FOLKS AND ET CETERA. SO, DEB, CAN I ASK YOU ONE QUESTION AND I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A COUPLE MINUTES TO ADD ANYTHING. SO DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE'LL BE ABLE TO ROLL IN OTHER POPULATION GROUPS, THE PROCESS OF HOW WE WILL DO THAT? PLEASE. >> I THINK PART OF IT COULD BE, YEAH, AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO GENERALLY THINKING IS THAT THERE ARE MANY POPULATION GROUPS AND THIS WORKING GROUP COULD ADDRESS SEVERAL, MAYBE TWO OR FOUR AND IT MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE WORKING GROUP THAT WOULD HAVE A LIFE OF PERHAPS TWO YEARS AND I THINK WE CAN'T ASK PEOPLE TO SIGN UP AND SAY YOU ARE NOT DONE UNTIL YOU COVERED THE UNDERSERVED AND MINORITY GROUPS SO WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PRACTICAL WAY OF PUT SOMETHING BOUNDARIES AROUND THE DURATION OF THE WORKING GROUP AND MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE MEMBERSHIP THAT THE REFLECTS THAT AND THE TASK IS DOABLE. ONE OPTION IS IT COULD BE THE SUBCOMMITTEE TODAY TO HAVE A FEW IDEAS ABOUT WHAT THE PRIORITIES ARE BUT THAT AS A GIVE US SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT BECAUSE HAVING A PRACTICAL TARGET FOR WHAT THE PRODUCT IS AND THE REPORT IS IS GOING TO BE CRUCIAL AND ANY INPUT YOU HAVE ON THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. >> SO, IF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO KIND OF ADDRESS THE GROUPS WE WANT TO CHARGE THE WORKING GROUP TO FOCUS ON WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT. BOB HAS SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE WE WANT TO WEIGH IN ON KEY VARIABLES AND MEASURES FROM NATIONAL SURVEYS AND OTHER SELF-REPORTED DATA FOR GENDER IDENTITY AND DEB BRUNNER HAS ASKED IF WORKGROUP MEMBERS BE INCLUDED THAT ARE NOT ON THE SUBCOMMITTEE DEFINITELY, THAT'S WHAT WE DID WITH THE LAST SUB WORKING GROUP AND AGE AND AGE IS ON THE DEFINITION OF HEALTH DISPARITIES, BOTH THE AYA AND THE ELDERLY. SO, NED, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING? >> FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANTLY TO THANK DEB AND DFO FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE FOR SO LONG AND ANY OF THE MINI WAYS WE NEED GIFT COUNSELING BUT SHE WON'T GO ANYWHERE BECAUSE WE WILL FIGURE OUT SOMEWAY TO END THIS SPECIAL VOLUNTEER STATUS. I HAVE ENJOYED THE DISCUSSION ON THIS TOPIC AND I THINK THAT EVERYONE GOT A CLEAR SENSE OF THE WORK THAT THIS IS JUST TO DO WHAT WE'VE DONE THUS FAR AND I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE WHAT WE'VE DONE THIS FAR IS NOT REALLY ADEQUATE TO GIVE US THE ANSWER TO WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO KNOW. SO, THIS IS VERY HARD. I MEAN, I THINK I WOULD BE -- I'M JUST I DON'T WANT TO BE NEGATIVE BUT I SENSE A LITTLE BIT OF ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYBODY WANTS EVERYBODY ABOUT EVERYBODY AND GENDER AND DISPARITY AND WE JUST CAN'T DO THAT. IT'S VERY, VERY LABOR AND UNTIL WE INVENT THE AI ROBOT THAT CAN READ THIS AND DO IT FOR US WHICH MAYBE WE SHOULD DO SOME DAY. IT'S AN INTERESTING AND SHOULD NCI INVEST IN NOVEL APPROACHES BECAUSE THIS IS SO LABOR INTENSIVE BUT SHORT OF DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I THINK THAT THIS GROUP WILL HAVE TO MAKE SOME DIFFICULT CHOICES ABOUT WHAT QUESTIONS IT WANTS TO QUESTIONS AND I WILL LEAVE IT TO THE WORKING GROUP TO FIGURE THAT OUT BUT I JUST WANT TO TRY AND REIGN IN THE ENTHUSIASM BECAUSE IT'S WORK AND THIS CAPACITY WE NEED TODAY DO OTHER THINGS FOR NCI. WHILE IT'S DOING THIS. >> THANK YOU, NED. I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING. IT COULD BE A MONUMENTAL TASK. YES. WE CAN DECIDE IF WE HAVE INPUT ON THE FOUR OR SO GROUPS. SO, WORKING GROUP MEMBERSHIP WILL INCLUDE PARTICIPANTS OF THE NCIB AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE AS WELL AS PARTICIPANTS FROM THE SCIENTIFISCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY WITH APPROPRIATE EXPERTISE. THAT ANSWERS DEB BRUNNER AND THE NCAB ON POPULATION SCIENCE EPIDEMIOLOGY AND DISPARITIES AND THE NATIONAL CANCER ADVISORY. JUST THE SAME AS WE DID WITH COHORT REPORT IF YOU WERE GOING TO REN AND IT WAS REPORT TODAY NCAB AND VOTED ON THERE. ANYBODY THINK OF ANY EDITS TO OUR FUNCTIONAL STATEMENT FOR THE WORKGROUP I HEAR NO EDITS. COULD YOU CIRCULATE IT. YOU HAVE ALREADY. I MISSED IT. >> WE CAN SEND YOU FEEDBACK. IT WILL GO TO THE NCAB FOR APPROVAL. >> THERE WERE FOUR PARTS TO IT AND IT WAS PRETTY GOOD. >> AGAIN, IT WAS MAILED TO YOU BY RICARDO. SO, HEARING NO MAJOR CHANGES, DEBBIE, SHOULD WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCUSSION? ABOUT WHAT GROUPS WE WANT TO CHARGE? >> THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE HARD DECISIONS COME IN. >> AND JUST A REMINDER YOU NEED TO VOTE SO YOU MAY WANT TO VOTE ON THE STATEMENT AND DISCUSS THE AREAS IF YOU WANT. >> >> SO JOY, SHOULD I JUST CALL THE VOTE AND THIS WOULD BE. >> I WOULD LIKE TO PUT A MOTION FOR. >> THAT'S FINE. AND A SECOND? >> AND A SECOND MARGARET. >> OK, THIS IS I WIL -- YOU CANNOT MAKE A MOTION AND SECOND IT. SOMEONE ELSE OK? >> OK. >> SO WOULD SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. >> >> SO MOVED. >> SECOND. >> THANK YOU. DISCUSSION? >> DAN: DISCUSSION? CAN I CALL THE VOTE NOW? ALL IN FAVOR. >> THIS WILL GO TO THE NCAB THE NEXT DAY. WE'RE ON THE AGENDA. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS? >> I'M MAKING NOTES OF THE EXCELLENT COMMENTS IN THE CHAT. >> BROAD CATEGORIES. WE HAVE RACIAL AND ETHNIC MINORITIES AND WE HAVE, AS WE MENTIONED, AGE. YOUNG AND THE OLD AND WE HAVE GEOGRAPHY WHICH WOULD BE RURAL AND WE HAVE LGBTQ POPULATION AND WE'RE WE'RE DOING BLACK AFRICAN AMERICANS. >> I WAS JUST CALLED OUT. ARE YOU ASKING ABOUT A SECOND COMPARABLE GROUP? THEY WERE AGE, RURAL, LGBTQ, HANDLEDHANDICAPPED, JUST TO THROW OUT A FEW. >> IT SHOULD BE AN UNDERSERVED POPULATION RATHER THAN A RACIAL ETHNIC POPULATION AND THAT IS MY SUGGESTION. >> I HAVE THE LATINOS OR LATINX THEY PRESENT A GROUP THAT ARE GENETICALLY SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT BUT RELATED TO AFRICAN AMERICANS AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE AFFLUENCE OF THIS SLAVE GRADE AND THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO ENCLOUD THEM AS WELL. RACIAL ILLEGAL NICK GROUP AND AGE GROUP AND RURAL AND GENDER. MAYBE YOU COULD EXPOUND A LITTLE BIT MORE ON GENDER? WE HAVE AFRICAN AMERICAN, LA TINX, YEAH. ANYBODY INTERESTED IN AGE? EITHER ONE? >> I THINK THE SENIOR ADULT GROUP, WHATEVER THAT IS CATEGORIZED AND AND OUR FEET IS AND THOSE WOULD BE INTERESTING. >> I WAS LOOKING UP THE RIGHT IS FOR THAT. AND DEB SAID RURAL. NOW, I HAVE TO BE CAREFUL BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF MY AREAS OF FOCUS SO I'M A LITTLE BIASED ABOUT THAT. BUT I KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN INTEREST IN THE NCI IN THE RURAL POPULATIONS AND HAVING A HIGH CANCER RATE. >.>> DEB, THANK YOU. DEB IS SUGGESTING TO LOOK AT GENDER AND WHAT WE PICK, NOT G.D.P.ER ITSELF. DO YOU THINGENDER ITSELF. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY OR IS THAT GETTING THAT BIGGETTING TOO BIG? >> WE CAN TRY TO COME TOGETHER AND IT'S EASIER AND THERE ARE CODES FOR THAT AND WE CAN TAKE THAT AND EXPLORE IT. >> ALL RIGHT. SO, WE HAVE AND BLACK AFRICAN AMERICAN AND LATINX. THE AGE WE HAVEN'T DECIDED IF WE WANT AYA OR THE OLDER ADULTS. AND THEN I HEARD RURAL. SO I THINK WE HAVE ONE DECISION TO MAKE. I THINK. WHICH IS AYA AND OLDER ADULTS. >> YEAH, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MUCH SHOULD ENTER INTO IT BUT, NCI DOES HAVE A LOT OF EFFORT GOING INTO BOTH RURAL POPULATIONS SORT OF MULTIPLE EFFORTS AS AN ALSO ALWAYS A BIG PURN FOR AYA AND CHILDHOOD CANCERS BUT THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT GROUPS SO MAYBE WE NEED MORE. THAT'S JUST SOMETHING TO FACTOR INTO IT THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A LOT OF -- WE'RE EXTREMELY AWARE OF THOSE AREAS AND ARE TRYING VERY HARD TO PUSH THEM VERY HARD. SO -- >> I THINK AS FAR AS AGE, WE HAVE A LOT OF OVERLAPPING CHILDHOOD CANCER AYA EFFORTS BUT THE OLDER POPULATION, I'M SITTING HERE WHILE WE'RE TALKING, TRYING TO THINK OF EFFORTS IN FOCUS TO THAT AND WE MIGHT BE LACKING IN THAT AREA OF THE OLDER POPULATIONS AND THEY'RE BECOMING MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE 90 PLUS-YEAR-OLDS, ET CETERA. >> DO WE AGREE ON THE FOUR? BLACK AFRICAN AMERICAN, LATINX, OLDER AND RURAL. I KNOW WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THAT I'M NOT SURE WE HAVE THE DEPTH OR THE BREADTH. YES, WE HAVE THREE MINUTES LEFT. SO, ONE THING THAT WE COULD USE MEMBERS' INPUT OBVIOUSLY IS, AREAS OF EXPERTISE THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED. WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC NAMES IN THE PUBLIC MEETING LIKE THIS BUT AREAS OF EXPERTISE AND I SUPPOSE YOU COULD SEND THAT TO US. WE MAY NOT -- I THINK THE NEXT WORKING SUBCOMMITTEE IS COMING ON PRETTY SOON SO, RIGHT. SO, IF YOU COULD THINK OF AREAS OF EXPERTISE AND THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE ARE DISCOVERED ON THIS AD HOC WORKING GROUP, OF COURSE, IT'S A GIVEN THAT THESE FOUR YEARS AND DEBBIE, WOULD YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE >> >> NOT AT THIS POINT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AT THIS MOMENT, BUT WHO WILL WANT TO VOLUNTEER? THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW. >> CORRECT. >> YOU CAN SEND DEBBIE OR MYSELF AMYSELFAN E-MAIL AND WE'LL FORWARD IT ON. H>> I REALLY WANT TO THANK ANDREA AND HER TEAM FOR -- SORRY, MELISSA AND HER TEAM AS WELL AS MICHELLE FOR AMOUNT WORK WE DO ANALL THE WORK THEYDO. DEBBIE, THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU ARE FABULOUS. THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. WE'RE GETTING OUR FIRST SNOWFALL HERE, I KEEP LOOKING OFF AND I'M LOOKING AT MY WINDOW AND FROWNING BECAUSE, IT'S SNOWING. FIRST SNOWFALL OF THE YEAR. I GUESS WE ARE IN WINTER. SO, ANYTHING ELSE? THAT I NEED TO SAY? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. STAY WELL. BYE. >> IT'S TIME TO BEGIN THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON PLANNING AND BUDGET VIRTUAL MEETING. THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING THAT IS BEING VIDEO CAST AND RECORDED. MEMBERS OF PUBLIC WHO MAY WISH TO EXPRESS VIEWS REGARDING ANY ITEMS DISCUSSED DURING THIS MEETING MAY DO SO BY WRITING TO DR. PAULETTE GRAY, THE NCAB EXECUTIVE SECRETARY. WITHIN 10 DAYS AFTER THE MEETING. ANY WRITTEN STATEMENTS OR QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WILL RECEIVE CAREFUL CONSIDERATION. THE FOLLOWING NCAB SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS ARE PARTICIPATING IN TODAY'S VIRTUAL MEETING -- >> DR. ADAMSON WILL JOIN US SHORTLY. THERE'S A QUORUM. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PROCESS? >> HEARING NONE. DR. BARKER, YOU MAY BEGIN THE MEETING. >> THANK YOU, JOY. WELCOME, EVERYBODY. I SPENT A LONG MORNING BUT WE HAVE THE MOST EXCITING THING TO TALK ABOUT NOW AND IT'S OUR PLANNING BUDGET SUBCOMMITTEE. THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING OF THIS GROUP. AND IT'S A RESTART OF THIS COMMITTEE AND I CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER TIME TO ACTUALLY HAVE HAVE RESTARTED THIS COMMITTEE. SO, LET ME JUST REVIEW A FEW THINGS FROM LAST TIME THAT I THOUGHT MIGHT BE WORTH MENTIONING AND THEN I'LL INTRODUCE PAT WHO AR PAT, WHO WILL TALK ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE BUDGET PROCESS AND WHERE WE ARE. THERE ARE THINGS WE DO KNO DON'T KNOW AND WE'LL HIGHLIGHT THOSE AS WE GO THROUGH THIS AGENDA. IN THE PRIOR MEETING, WHICH WAS OUR FIRST MEETING, WE REVIEWED THE CHARGE OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND WE STARTED REVIEWED SOME WAYS THAT WE MIGHT BE MOST HELPFUL TO THE NCI IN TERMS OF WHAT THIS COMMITTEE DOES. IN THE PAST, HAVING BEEN PART OF THIS COMMITTEE, SITTING ON THE NCI THAT THE NCI PART OF THE EQUATION, THERE WAS USUALLY A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW THE COMMUNITIES CAN ACTUALLY HELP THE NCI AND ASSIST THE NCI IN WHATEVER WAYS TO NOT JUST PLAN FOR THE COMPUTE BUT ALSO TO ENSURE THAT WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO HELP FUND THE RESEARCH, WE ALL THINK IS SO IMPORTANT, ACTUALLY GETS DONE. IN THE LAST MEETING, WE HAD A BUDGET REVIEW, PATRICK WENT THROUGH YOU, I THINK, VERY NICE REVIEW OF WHERE WE ARE IN 2020 AND WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT 2021. MICHELLE BENNETT REVIEWED WITH US THE B BYPASS BUDGET PLAN FOR 2022. THE BIGGEST PEVE O PIECE IS TO ACHIEVE AN INCREASE IN THE PAY LINE TO 15% AND WE DID POINT OUT THAT WE MADE SOME REAL HEADWAY AN THAT THIS YEAR AND IT'S REALLY POSITIVE SIGN. WE HOPE TO KEEP IT MOVING AND IT'S WHAT IT RELATED TO. I THINK A FEW OTHER THINGS CAME UP THAT WE DISCUSSED, ESPECIALLY THE SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING THAT CAME TO NCI THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC. SPECIFICALLY, IF YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS, I THINK IT'S VERY EXCITING DEVELOPMENT, NOT JUST FOR NCI BUT THE WHOLE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY, A SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION FOR THIS SURROLOGY FACILITY WHICH IS GOING TO BE A HUGE BOONE TO US, NOT JUST NOW BUT IN FUTURE YEARS AS WE HAVE THESE NEEDS, WHEN WE HAVE THE NEXT PANDEMIC OR OTHER AREAS OF CANCER RESEARCH THAT CAN REALLY BENEFIT FROM SUCH AN INSULATION. SO, KUDOS TO NCI, IF YOU'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS STORY, IT'S COME ALONG REALLY NICELY. I THINK BEYOND THAT, WE TALKED A BIT ABOUT MORE ABOUT THE PERCENTILE AND HOW WE CAN ACTUALLY GET THAT PAY LINE WHERE WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT. AS PATRICK POINTED OUT LAST TIME, SINCE 2013 THE NCI BUDGET HAS INCREASED RIGHT AT 20%. THAT IS REMARKABLE AND I THINK THE MORE REMARKABLE WAS THAT OUR GRANT APPLICATIONS HAVE INCREASED 50% DURING THE SAME PERIOD AND THAT MEANS A LOT OF GOOD SCIENCE IS NOT BEING FUNDED AND WE REALLY DO HAVE TO FOCUS THERE AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FOCUSED FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND IN TERMS OF THE PAY LINE AND GETTING EXTRA FURAL FUNDING REALLY AT A POINT WHERE WE'RE FUNDING HOPEFULLY ALL OF THOSE PROPOSALS THAT SHOULD BE FUNDED BUT AT THE PERCENTILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. WE HAD SOME COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THE COMMITTEE COULD BE A FORCE FOR GOOD HERE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSE TO GO DO RELATIVE TO AND CAN WE INTERACT WITH GROUPS OUT THE TO LET THEM KNOW ABOUT THE DOMAINS OF THE NCI AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY CAME UP WAS THE RELATIONSHIP THAT NCI HAS ESTABLISHED WITH CANCER U.K. WHERE THERE'S ACTUALLY SEEN THE BIG QUESTIONS THAT CAME FROM THAT INITIATIVE AND IT'S EXCITING AND IT GOES BACK TO PROVOCATIVE QUESTIONS WHICH WAS NCI'S AGENDA OVER THE FOUR OR FIVE OR SIX YEARS AND IN PEER REVIEW SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COMMITTEE TALKED ABOUT IN TERMS OF HOW MORE OF THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL AND THEN THE LAST ISSUE THAT CAME UP THE COMMITTEE WANTED SHOW THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE BUDGET PROCESS, ESPECIALLY THE PLANNING FOR THE INCREASE TO REACH THE GOAL OF 15th PERCENTILE. WE DID IN FACT MAKE A MOTION TO THAT AND SCOTT DID AND IT WAS PASSED AND YOU SAW ALL OF YOU SAW THE LETTER THAT WAS GENERATED THAT WEPT TO SUPPORTING THIS INITIATIVE AND I'LL START THERE AND SAY THAT I THINK WE ARE HAVING AND WE'RE PART OF THIS THAT I'VE SEEN AND WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A TRANSITION AND THEY ALWAYS TAKE TIME AND THIS ONE IS A LITTLE MORE UNUSUAL THAN MOST AND ALTHOUGH WE'VE BEEN IN OTHER TRANSITIONS WHERE ELECTION HAVE BEEN CHALLENGES, THIS ONE HAS TAKEN ON A LIFE OF IT'S OWN. EVEN IF WE, SO WE HAVE A CONTINUING RESOLUTION RIGHT NOW AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL END WITH AN OMNIBUS IN SEPTEMBER THAT'S WHAT WE HOPE WILL HAPPEN AND THEN OUR HHS APPROPRIATION WILL BE IN THERE AND WE'LL SEE THE KINDS OF RESOURCES THAT WE HOPE TO HAVE IN 2021. I WOULD SAY WE DON'T HAVE ANSWERS TO ANY OF THOSE QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW, EVERYTHING IS KIND OF STILL UP IN THE AIR SO I THINK OUR BEST ROLE TODAY IS TO LISTEN TO PATRICK'S REVIEW AND WHAT WE CAN DO THAT IS HELPFUL TO ME AND I TO GET YOUR IDEAS ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO AS A SUBCOMMITTEE THAT THEY HELP US HAVE MORE INPUT IN THE PLANNING OR IN THE RIGHT KIND OF INPUT INTO PLANNING RELATIVE TO BUDGET AND ALSO HOW CAN WE ASSIST MORE AND AND HOW WE FUND THE PROGRAMS THAT WE NEED TO NOT FUND AND AS YOU SEE FROM THE BSA AGENDA, THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY GOOD SCIENCE FOR THE BSA AND A LOT OF THOSE PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN WITH US SOME ARE NEW AND MANY ARE RENEWALS, WE HAVE TO HAVE MONEY FOR THOSE PROGRAMS WHICH MEANS WE'LL NEED ADDITIONAL MONEY AND FUNDING FOR SOME OF THE EXTRAMURAL WORK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND WITH THAT, LET ME STOP AND SEE IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO PUT ON THE AGENDA THAT YOU THINK WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR US TO DISCUSS TODAY. SO WITH THAT I WILL INTRODUCE PATRICK. HE HAS SOME SLIDES YOU WILL SEE AND HE WILL RUN US THROUGH THAT AND WE'LL COME BACK AND HAVE A DISCUSSION. >> LET ME BEGIN BY SAYING I HOPE WE HAD A HAPPY THANKSGIVING AND MINE WAS QUIETER THAN NORMAL BUT THAT'S NO SURPRISE GIVEN THE CHALLENGES OF COVID-19. SO FEX SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THIS IS THE SLIGHT BEFORE AND I JUST WANT TO AND HOWEVER, I WANT TO RETURN SOMETHING DR. BARKER SAID WHICH WAS IF YOU LOOK AT THE GROWTH FOR THE FIVE YEARS ENDING IN 2020, NCI HAS SEEN A 30% INCREASE IN ITS BUDGET AND? 2017 THE BUDGET ROSE I WANT TO FOCUS ON THAT YEAR BECAUSE THERE'S PROBABLY A LITTLE DECEPTION IN THAT INCREASE. TWO-THIRDS OF THAT AMOUNT IN 2017, IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT MOON SHOT WE'RE HALFWAY THROUGH THE SEVEN-YEAR WINDOW AND IT IS A SEVEN-YEAR WINDOW AND THAT FUNDING IS AVAILABLE TO BE PROVIDED DURING THAT WINDOW SO IT LEAVES I A QUESTION LOOKING FORWARD WHAT HAPPENED DURING END OF FISCAL YEAR 2023. WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN THIS GRAPH OF THE LARGE, BLUE BAR ARE THE REGULAR BUDGET AND THE BASE BUDGET THAT WE GET AND AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO THAT AND THERE'S INFORMATION ON OUR WEBSITE AND OUR BUDGET DOCUMENTS AND ANYBODY CAN FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME IF THEY STRUGGLED TO FIND THAT OUT SO IF WE WANT TO COMPARE OUR BUDGE TOTE THE NIH BUDGET AND WE'RE IN A PERIOD OF MANY UNKNOWNS AND AND THEY ARE HOW MUCH FUNDING AND WILL NCI BE RECEIVING IN 2020 AND WHEN CAN WHO ARE GOING TO APPROVE THAT BUDGET WE'VE RECEIVED. AND THE CONTROL IS IN THE REPUBLICAN HANDS NOW AND THERE'S TWO SEATS OPEN IN GEORGIA AND THINGS TO CHANGE AND ALL THOSE MAY WORK INTO THE DECISION-MAKING ON THE FINAL BUDGET THAT NCI RECEIVES AND THERE WAS ONE UNCERTAINTY THAT WAS RESOLVED JUST BEFORE THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY AND I APOLOGIZE THIS SOUNDS TECHNICAL BUT IT IS IMPORTANT AND THAT IS THAT THE LEADERSHIP AND CONGRESS REACHED AN AGREEMENT ON THE TOTAL SPENDING FOR FY2021 AND THERE ARE 12 APPROPRIATES SUBCOMMITTEES ONE OF WHICH FUNDS NIH AND NCI PROGRAMS AND BEFORE THOSE 12 SUBCOMMITTEES CAN ENGAGE HOUSE AND SENNAL TO RESOLVE THEIR DISAGREEMENTS ON THEIR SPENDING COMPONENTS WE NEED A GLOBAL AGREEMENT WHICH IS HAPPENED JUST BEFORE THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY AND YOU DON'T NEED TO APOLOGIZE IF YOU MISSED IT. IT'S VERY INSIDE BASEBALL BUT THAT IS THE WHAT ALLOWS THE SUBCOMMITTEES TO BEGIN THEIR WORK IN EARNEST AND THAT FIRST STEP WAS ESSENTIAL GETS IT'S LIKE THE CHINESE PROVERB BEGINS WITH THE FIRST STEP AND THAT WAS THE FIRST ESSENTIAL STEP TO GETTING CLOSURE ON WHAT THE FINAL BUDGETS WILL BE FOR THE MULTITUDE OF FEDERAL AGENCIES FOR THE COMING FISCAL YEAR. LET ME TURN TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, THIS IS ABOUT WHEN WE MIGHT RECEIVE OUR BUDGET AND JUST AS A PRE FACE. CONGRESS WILL HAVE 34 CALENDER DAYS AND 20 BUSINESS DAYS TO COMPLETE ITS WONG ASSUMING CONGRESWORK, ASSUMINGCONGRESS IS NOT IN SE SSION HOLIDAYS. CONGRESS MUST AGREE ON A $1.3 TRILLION BUDGET FOR 500 FEDERAL AGENCIES AND POSSIBLY A AGREE ON A PANDEMIC AND ECONOMIC STIMULUS PACKAGE ANOTHER TRY YAN ANPACK ANOTHER -- WE HAVEA DATE THAT COULD BE CHANGED IF THEY CAN'T REACH AN AGREEMENT BY THAT DATE AND UNLESS THAN TWO WEEKS AWAY AND THEY MAY EXTEND THE C.R., EXTENDING A C.R. IS FAIRLY COMMON. THESE COMING DAYS ARE VERY, VERY CRITICAL TO WHETHER THERE'S ANY GAP IN FUNDING AND WHETHER WE GET AN APPROPRIATION, OR WHETHER THE APPROPRIATION WILL BE YET TO COME BECAUSE THEY CAN'T COMPLETE WORK THAT I HIGHLIGHTED BY DES 11th. AND THE BOTTOM PART OF THE SLIDE EMPHASIZES IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEARS, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR CONGRESS AND THE EXECUTIVE TO BE UNABLE TO GET A FINAL APPROPRIATION SETTLED UNTIL WELL INTO THE TENURE OF A NEW PRESIDENT. I SAY WELL, I MEAN, CERTAINLY IF YOU WATCH DAILY WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A FINAL PR APPROPRIATION IS INTERM ENABLE. THEY GET PUSHED OUT INTO THE NEW SESSION OF CONGRESS AND FOR THE NEW PRESIDENT. SO, THAT IS WHAT ADDRESSES THE WHEN. LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO HERE I HAVE DISPLAYED WHAT IS PENDING FOR ONE OF THOSE 12 SUBCOMMITTEES I REFERRED TO AND THE NCI COMPONENT THAT THAT SUBCOMMITTEE HAS, THAT'S THE LABOR HHS SUBCOMMITTEE. SO, WE HAVE A HOUSE ACTION ON AN APPROPRIATION BILL WITH AN INCREASE FOR NCI OF ABOUT $54 MILLION. THE BIG CAVEAT ON THAT BILL IS IN ADDITION TO THE REGULAR APPROPRIATIONS FOR NCI AND ALL THE OTHER INSTITUTES AND CENTERS AT NIH, THERE IS A SUBSTANTIAL CHUNK OF MONEY, $5 BILLION, FOR RESTORING THE PRODUCTIVITY THAT WAS LOST IN LABS BECAUSE OF SHUTDOWNS OR DELAYS OR PARTIAL RETURNS TO LABS ACTIVITIES DUE TO THE PANDEMIC. THE SENATE HAS A DIFFERENT APPROACH AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE LAB PRODUCTIVITY BUT THEY HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE FOR NCI ON TWO AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS. 4.4% INCREASE. SO, I HOPE YOU CAN APPRECIATE THERE'S A WIDE RANGE OF POSSIBLE OUTCOMES IN ALL OF THAT AND JUST TO FOCUS ON LAB PRODUCTIVITY, WELL, ACTUALLY TO FOCUS ON ALL OF THESE. IF THIS WERE A NORMAL YEAR AND NCI WERE FOR EXAMPLE, TO RECEIVE AN INCREASE SUCH AS WHAT THE SENATE PROPOSES, AND THE VOLUME OF APPLICATIONS AND A NORMAL PACE, WE WOULD BE IN A GOOD POSITION TO IMPROVE GRANTS PAY LINES. BUT AS WE ALL KNOW, THESE ARE NOT NORMAL TIMES AND FOR ONE THING, RESEARCH STALLED DUE TO COVID, AMONG OTHER THINGS, WE'VE BEEN HEARING AND THAT COULD HAVE SIGNIFICANHEARING THAT COULD BECONSEQUENCE S. WE REALLY HAVE TO WATCH THAT PLAY OUT. AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN CONSEQUENCES ON RESEARCH, AS IT STALLED, AND AS LABS HAD TO MEET REQUIREMENTS TO MORE THAN $90 MILLION A MONTH. YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF HOW MUCH SALARY AND BENEFITS MAY HAVE BEEN BURNED WHEN THEY WERE -- THEY WERE LIMITATIONS ON THE ABILITIES OF THESE LABS TO CONDUCT THEIR WORK. AND SO WITH THAT, I THINK I'LL JUST TURN TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, THIS IS THE ANNUAL PLAN THAT MICHELLE BENNETT PRESENTED IN THE LAST MEETING. SHE AND I BOTH HAD PRESENTATIONS. I JUST PUT THIS SLIDE UP BECAUSE IN THE LAST MING, A QUESTION CAME ABOUT THE JOE BIDEN STATED OBJECTIVES OF FUNDING CANCER RESEARCH AND I MERELY WANT TO HIGHLIGHT HERE, WE HAVE A STRATEGIC PLAN THAT IS MICHELLE PRESENTED IN THE LAST MEETING, AND WE KNOW HOW TO DEPLOY RESOURCES AND A MAJOR COMPONENT OF OUR MISSION AND NOTHING MORE THAT'S MY LAST SLIDE AND I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS AND TO HELP THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND ITS DELIBERATIONS. >> I THINK YOU ARE MUTED. >> I THINK YOU PRESENTED A VERY UNCERTAIN PICTURE, AS CERTAINLY AS IT COULD BE PRESENTED. SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. I'M REMINDED OF THE UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE AND THIS IS DEFYING EVERYTHING. I DON'T THINK -- THE REALLY THE RINGER IN AWFU ALL OF THIS, I SAY THIS FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT, IS THE INCOMING PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN, I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF WORKING WITH OVER SOME TIME ON ACTUALLY A CLINICAL TRIAL THAT WE DEVELOPED FOR TVM AND HE WAS KIND ENOUGH TO LEND SOME SUPPORT TO THAT AND ALSO TO HELP US TO LAUNCH AND HE DID SOME PRESS AROUND IT AND SOME OTHER THINGS. HE IS INCREDIBLY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT MORE FUNDING FROM CANCER RESEARCH AND HE HAS PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS AND I WAS VERY SURPRISED AND HE DOESN'T WE HAVE A BIG DIFFERENCE OF $5 BILLION FOR LOST PRODUCTIVITY AND VERSUS JUST NOT A NORMAL APPROPRIATION AND I DON'T WANT TO ASSERT I KNOW. ONE OF THE THINGS THE HOUSE WAS ABLE TO DO, WITH THE RETURN TO -- RESTORING LAB ACTIVITY AND THEY WERE ABLE TO CONVINCE THEIR LEADERSHIP THAT THE BUDGET ACT SHOULD BE WAVED FOR THAT $5 BILLION. WHAT THAT MEANS, NOT TO GET TOO TECHNICAL, IS THAT IT'S A FREE PASS ON THOSE DOLLARS. IT DOESN'T SCORE AGAINST THIS, WHAT I SPOKE OF INITIALLY, AS THIS GLOBAL AGREEMENT. A PANDEMIC, EIGHT YEARS AGO, AT THE OUTSET, IT'S MORE THAN EIGHT YEARS AGO, AT THE OUTSET OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WHEN THEY WERE DEALING WITH A SEVERE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, A LOT OF RESOURCES GOT APPROPRIATED AND THE BUDGET CAPS WERE WAVED. WITH PULL POT APPROPRIATIONS I THINK AS MANY AS FOUR, THE SENATE DIDN'T TAKE THAT APPROACH BUT THEY HAVE TO RECONCILE THEIR BILLS AND, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT TO QUOTE MICK JAGGER, SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE IN HERE BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE TO COME TO AGREEMENT AND THAT JUST HAS TO WATCH THAT PLAY OUT. I'M RELUCTANT TO SPECULATE BECAUSE IT'S A HUGE GAP. IT'S A RED LIGHT OR A GREEN LIGHT WHETHER THEY WAVE BUDGET CAPS AND HAVE THE FREEDOM OF FLEXIBILITY TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL RESOURCES FOR THINGS LIKE PANDEMIC RESPONSE AND RESTORING LAB PRODUCTIVITY. I'LL STOP THERE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO RUN THE CLOCK TOO MUCH. >> THE RESOLUTION OF THAT, I THINK YOU HAVE A VERY BROAD SPECTRUM TO WORK WITH WHICH WE HOPE COMES OUT OF OUR FAVOR AND THERE'S A LOT OF, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE A DEFINITIVE NUMBER AND I'M SURE IT'S ENORMOUS AND IT'S PROBABLY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE MORE THAN EVEN THE WORST-CASE SCENARIOS SO, I HOPE THAT PEOPLE, I KNOW PEOPLE WANT TO UNDERSTAND THIS AND IT'S ALSO THERE ARE LOTS AND LOTS OF COMPETITION HERE FOR WHERE THESE MONEYS CAN ACTUALLY GO THE VERY GOOD NEWS IS WE DO HAVE AT LEAST THREE VACCINES THAT ARE OUT THERE NOW AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL ALLOW PRODUCTIVE RETURN TO WORK FOR MANY OF OUR LABS. AND MANY OF OUR LABS ARE IN CLINICAL CENTERS, WHICH WILL BE, I THINK, A FIRST UP IN TERMS OF GETTING THESE VACCINES. ANY OTHER POINTS OR QUESTIONS? >> PATRICK, I WAS WONDERING, I MISSED THE NEWS THERE WAS THIS GLOBAL AGREEMENT ON THE NUMBER. WHAT IS THAT NUMBER LOOKING LIKE? IS IT MUCH OF AN INCREASE OVER LAST YEAR? SHOULD WE BE ENCOURAGED THAT HHS MIGHT GET, YOU KNOW, A GOOD INCREASE? WHAT WAS THE NUMBER? >> SO, I KNOW THAT I AM GOING TO DISAPPOINT YOU WITH MY ANSWER. WHAT HAPPENED WAS, THEY ANNOUNCED THAT THEY REACHED AGREEMENT. AND THEY DID NOT ANNOUNCE WHAT THE AGREEMENT WAS. AND THEY DO THAT FOR TACTICAL REASONS. AND THEY -- THERE'S A TOP LINE NUMBER, TOTAL AMOUNT, AND THEN THEY HAVE TO DIVIDE THAT AMONGST THTHEY WORRY THERE'S A RUN BY EVERY INTEREST TO THE DOORSTEP OF THE SUBCOMMITTEES WHEN THE SUBCOMMITTEES SPECIFIC ALLOCATIONS ARE KNOWN. SO, I THINK IT'S A MEANS UNDERSTANDABLE MEANS OF LIMITING THE BURDEN THAT THESE FOLKS HAVE TO FACE. THAT'S PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED AND THERE WAS A LOT HAPPENING PRE THANKSGIVING. NO SURPRISE, TECHNICAL AS IT WAS, IT WAS OVERLOOKED. THERE'S A QUESTION IN THE CHAT. LET ME MAKE SURE, BEFORE I SKIP TO THE CHAT, ANYTHING MORE ON THAT LAST QUESTION. IT'S PROBABLY PRETTY GOOD. SO, THE QUESTION COMES, WHAT IS LOSS OF PRODUCTIVITY SO I'M JUST GOING TO READ FROM THE FACE OF THE BILL AND THE DOLLARS THAT THE HOUSE PROVIDED -- THAT'S IN THE HOUSE BILL. THEY HAVEN'T PROVIDED BECAUSE IT DOESN'T COME UNTIL THE AGREEMENT. THE PROPOSAL OF THE HOUSE IS TO OFFSET COSTS RELATED TO REDUCTIONS IN LAB PRODUCTIVITY RESULT INTERESTINRESULTING FROM INTERRUPTI ONS IN FISCAL YEAR 2020. I'LL PUT THAT IN THE CHAT TO. PEOPLE CAN CONTINUE TO REFER TO T I EXPECT PEOPLE ARE TAKING NOTES. I'LL DO THAT. THAT IS WHAT IT IS. THAT COULD CHANGE AS THEY ENGAGE WITH THE SENATE. I'M SORRY, I'M MULTI TASKING HERE AND I WANTING TO GET THIS IN THE CHAT. WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WATCH. ONE THING THAT STRIKES ME, VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD, IS WE KNOW THAT INTERRUPTIONS ARE SHUT DOWNS OF RESEARCH ACTIVITY MAY NOT BE LIMITED TO FISCAL YEAR 2020. SO, THIS WILL ENDURE IN SOME WAYS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE ACTIVE GRANTS AND THAT IS ONE OBSERVATION THAT I MAKE. THAT'S THE STATUTORY LANGUAGE, IT'S FAIRLY BROAD. YOU CAN SEE THE SENSE OF WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO, I THINK. >> SO, YES, IT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO CERTAINLY EFFECT US FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO EFFECT US ACTUALLY FOR SEVERAL YEARS, NOT JUST 2021. SO -- >> YEAH, NO. I JUST SUGGEST THAT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL, BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IT'S A VERY VAGUE AND BROAD DEFINITION, IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL INFORM US TO THINK WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE A GROUP THAT ENGAGES IN TRYING TO QUANTIFY AND UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE THE ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE IN A MORE COMPELLING WAY IF WE CAN CONVINCE OTHERS THAT WE'RE GOING ABOUT IT IN A DELIBERATE AND THOUGHTFUL WAY AS OPPOSED TO JUST SAYING WELL, WE NEED $5 BILLION OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. IT'S NOT SIMPLE, AS YOU POINTED OUT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS. THERE'S DIFFERENT SCIENCE IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND SO THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME EQUATION WHICH WHICH WE ARE QUOTE-UNQUOTE REIMBURSING PEOPLE FOR LOSS OF TIME, RIGHT. SO A LOT OF THE COMPUTATIONAL STUFF HAS REMAINED AND FROM HAVING TIME TO DO IN A DRIVE AND. >> I JUST THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND A LOT OF AND AND IT MAYBE IN THE FUTURE THAT WEN ENGAGE IN DOING IT. >> IT'S HAVING AND IT'S SPEAKING AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE LOSSES OF REVENUE TO AND SHUT DOWN AND SAY ELECTIVE SURGERY AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND SEND THEIR PERSONNEL INTO COVID-19 SERVICE OF COVID-19 THEY HAVE A WHOLE DIFFERENT KIND OF CATEGORY THAT THEY'RE DEG. >> PATRICK, WHAT DO YOU THINK? I DON'T KNOW IF NED WANTS TO COMMENT ON THAT? IS THIS SOMETHING THE NCI CAN AND SHOULD UNDERTAKE? >> >> THERE IS A SURVEY THAT NIH ISSUED TO GRANTEES AND I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIMELINE OF RECEIVING THE RESPONSE AND AND ENCOURAGED PEOPLE AND IT'S DESIGNED TO THESE KINDS OF QUESTIONS. >> NED, CAN YOU COMMENT? >> YEAH, WE HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT IT AND I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS FOR TO HAVE A BETTER IDEA OF AND AND ONE HAND I THINK PATRICK LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG IF IT'S $90 MILLION A MONTH THE BUDGE -- AND IT AND WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING AND THE AND IT'S EMERGENCY FUNDING FOR THIS PURPOSE OR NOT. SO, YOU KNOW, THE NCI, WE'RE A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT GOING OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY AND TELLING US AND MAKE UP FOR LOST COSTS AND IT'S MUCH OF A WE HEAR ABOUT A LOT OF STUFF AND YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT THE DEFICIT IS MASSIVE. ON THE OTHER HAND, I DO THINK HAVING A BETTER SENSE OF THE TYPES OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF COSTS THAT WE AREN'T FULLY AWARE OF AND THAT WOULD BE USEFUL FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS AS WE HELP THE PLAN, WHAT STRATEGY WE SHOULD ADOPT AND THE COMPUTATIONAL THINGS BEING LESS EFFECTIVE THAN CLINICAL TRIALS AND WERE WE GOING TO MAKE UP COSTS IN SOME WAY AND IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO KNOW ABOUT THE UNIVERSE OF THE DEFICITS. SO I THINK OUR INITIAL PLAN WAS TO DO SOME INTERNAL WORK, YOU KNOW, OF WHICH PATRICK SPOKE ABOUT LOOKING AT OUR GRANTS PORTFOLIO TO GET OUR OWN ESTIMATES AND COME OUT THE NIH SURVEY THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE. BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THAT WE MIGHT ASK FOR, WE MIGHT NEED MORE INFORMATION FROM THE CANCER CENTER PROGRAM AND THE TRIALS NETWORK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND SO, I THINK WE CAN -- THIS VERY USEFUL FOR YOU GUYS TO GIVE US YOUR ADVICE IN WHAT MANNER SHOULD THE NCI SEEK INFORMATION. KNOWING THAT AND COLLECT A LOT OF DATA WE CAN'T ACT UPON BECAUSE FUNDING WILL BE AVAILABLE. >> SO, YEAH. THOSE ARE GREAT POINTS. AS I SAY, THERE'S SO MANY CATEGORIES OF THIS AND I JUST LISTENED TO SOME OF THE CANCER CENTERS AND SOME OF THE EFFECTS THERE THAT HAVE BEEN JUST ENORMOUS AND I THINK TO YOUR POINT, AND HOW I COULD FEEL THAT EFFICIENCY AND BUDGET, THE ONE THING THAT I THINK THAT NCAB COULD DO HERE IS TO COME UP WITH ALL OTHER ESTIMATES AND IN TERMS OF THE WAY AND THIS WHOLE PROBLEM IS VIEWED, AND IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT AND IF CONGRESS UNDERSTANDS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH SHUT DOWN AND THE ENTERPRISE BUT SOME PERIODS AND YOU LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF THAT IN AREAS LIKE IT'S GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION AND THE EXTENT TO WHICH PEOPLE ARE NOT RECEIVING THERAPY OR CLINICAL TRIALS, THOSE ARE ALL GETTING ATTENTION. I DON'T THINK THIS ISSUE OF LABORATORIES NOT WORKING AND THE SCIENCE THAT IS NOT BEING PRODUCED IS GETTING THAT MUCH ATTENTION. I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK PATRICK THAT YOU SAID AND AND MAYBE NOT COMPLETELY AROUND OR THE MOST ABSOLUTE AND PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IMPACT ON THE RESEARCH THAT'S NOT GETTING DONE IMPACTS US FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND WE WON'T BE ABLE TO CATCH UP AND HE WE CAN AT LEAST COMPENSATE AND GET PEOPLE BACK ON TRACK AND IN A MUCH MORE AND I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR CONGRESS AND FOR GROUPS OUT THERE THAT ADVOCATE FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THAT. >> YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED EVEN THOUGH WHAT GIVEN THE CHOICE BETWEEN ONE-TIME EMERGENCY BOWL US OF FUNDS FORCES SUSTAINED INCREASES TO OUR BUDGET, IT'S EASIER FOR THE NCI IS EASIER AND AND THEY DON'T ADD TO OUR BASE THAT PROVIDES ADDITIONAL PROBLEMS AND OBVIOUSLY OUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE AN INCREASE TO THE BASE BUDGET WHICH WE NEED FOR A LOT OF REASONS PLUS ONE-TIME FUNDS TO MAKE UP SOME OF THESE DEFICITS. I AM WORRIED IF WE ARE UNCLEAR ABOUT HOW OR THE COMMUNITY IS UNCLEAR ABOUT HOW IT COMMUNICATES THIS DESIRE THAT THEY GET CONFUSED AND SO I DON'T DON'T. WE TRIED TO PROVIDE DATA WHEN ASKED YOU MENTIONED AND I THINK PEOPLE WILL BE -- IT'S VERY CHALLENGING PERIOD BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINTY YOU ALLUDED TO AT THE BEGINNING AND THE TOP NUMBERS DECIDED ON BUT NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IT IS. THAT KIND OF STUFF. >> YEAH. >> WE ARE TRYING TO SEND A SIGNAL WHICH WE'VE ALWAYS SENT, THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF NEEDS AND THAT OBVIOUSLY THE PANDEMIC WILL DISRUPT SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH IN MANY, MANY WAYS BUT DESPITE THOSE FACTS, WE MAINTAIN COMMITTED TO THE TRYING TO ADDRESS IT THE PAY LINE PROBLEM. >> SO, WHILE WE HAVE YOU, NED, WHAT ABOUT OUR EMERGENCY'S PRO APPROPRIATION FOR 300 MILLION FOR THE FACILITY OR THE CAPABILITY THAT WE'VE JUST GOTTEN UNDERWAY? THAT'S A ONE-TIME APPROPRIATION AS WELL, RIGHT? >> YOU MEAN THE SURROLOGY? >> 306. >> YEAH. >> THAT WAS DEDICATED FOR COVID-19 RELATED TOPICS AND FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WON'T HELP US IN THE RPG WITH MANY OF THE ACTIVITIES WE NEED TO TAKE ON. AND FOR THE MOST PART, I DON'T THINK IT'S HELPFUL FROM THE CANCER RESEARCH DISRUPTED BY COVID-19 PROBLEMS AND WE NEED THOSE HUNDREDS AND ADDITIONAL NEW MONEY ALONG THE LINES OF PATRICK MENTIONED. >> I WAS ASKING IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY AND WHEN THE TIMING IS OVER, THAT'S A ONE-TIME, DO WE HAVE PLANS? AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO DEAL WITH THAT? >> THE WHAT COMES NEXT. I THINK WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THAT. IT'S -- IT WAS THROW-YEAR MONEY PATRICK OR WAS REMIND ME AGAIN WHAT WAS THE SPENDING PERIOD FOR THE SURROLOGY? IT'S FIVE-YEAR MONEY. >> IT'S CONFUSING. THE FIVE BILLION IS FIVE-YEAR MONEY. THE 306 MILLION, WAS NO YEAR MONEY MANY OF WE ACTUALLY PLANNED IT THE FULL SPEND PLAN FOR HOWEVER LONG NEEDED WHEN WE WERE JUST DESIGNING OUR COMPONENTS SO WE PLANNED IT DIFFERENTLY THAN OUR ANNUAL APPROPRIATION BECAUSE IT WAS NO YOUR MONEY AND DOUG RAISES HIS HAND THERE. >> EXPLAIN THIS, DOUG. >> I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, THE MONEY IS SPECIFICALLY AS NED SAID, FOR COVID-RELATED ISSUES, PARTICULARLY SUR LOGICAL ONCE ONES AND THE HOPE IS THAT AND THE SERUM NET WHICH ACCOUNTS FOR A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF THAT FUNDING IS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND MANY IMMUNE PARAMETERS OF THE EPIDEMIC THAT MIGHT HAVE RELEVANCE IF THERE ARE FUTURE SIMILAR EPIDEMIC. >> I'M NOT SURE THAT EVERYBODY FULLY UNDERSTOOD THAT AND SO, I DON'T KNOW, I KNOW THERE ARE CONFUSION IN THE COMMUNITIES ABOUT THIS. >> THE NETWORK WAS ESTABLISHED WITH THE TWO-FOLD. ONE WAS TO FORM WHAT WE ARE CALLING CAPACITY BUILDING CENTERS TO REALLY EXPAND OUR ABILITY TO PERFORM SEROLOGICAL ASSAYS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. THE OTHER, WHICH WENT HAND IN HAND WITH IT WAS TO FUND RESEARCH INTO THE IMMUNE RESPONSE INTO SARS-CoV-2 TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE CELLULAR AND HUMORAL BASIS OF THE RESPONSE TO UNDERSTAND THE INNATE AND ADAPTIVE IMMUNE RESPONSE REALLY TO SARS-CoV-2 PRIMARILY AND ALSO WITH THE EYE TOWARDS BEING PREPARED TO ADDRESS ANY FUTURE EMERGING DISEASES AND POSSIBLE PANDEMICS. DOES THAT HELP, ANNE? >> YEAH, THAT'S VERY HELPFUL. AND SO, THOSE CENTERS, GETTING BACK TO NED'S POINT, WHEN COVID-19, LET'S SAY WHEN WE REACH HERD IMMUNITY AND COVID-19 COVID-19 GOES IN THE BOOKS, IT PROBABLY NEVER WILL, RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE COVID-19 PROBABLY FOREVER, BUT SO THE CENTERS WILL CONTINUE OR WOULD YOU THEN SHUT DOWN AT THAT POINT? >> ANNE, THE WAY SERONET IS SET UP WE HAVE A TWO YEAR MILESTONE. AT WHICH POINT, WE'RE GOING TO REASSESS WITH CAPACITY BUILDING CENTERS AND ALL THE RESEARCH GRANTS TO REALLY TAKE STOCK OF WHERE WE ARE IN TWO YEARS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY VACCINES ARE GOING TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE THE LANDSCAPE AND BASED ON THAT ASSESSMENT DETERMINE TO GO FORWARD BUT THE EXPECTATION IS THIS WILL NOT GO BEYOND THE INITIAL FIVE YEARS IT MAY GO ON AT A MUCH, MUCH LOWER LEVEL DEPENDING ON WHERE WE ARE WITH COVID-19. THERE YOU NO PLANS RIGHT NOW. >> IT'S VERY HELPFUL. SO, I THINK IN THE CENTER OF TIME, I THINK I AM WITH YOU, I THINK IT WAS VERY ENCOURAGING AND SO FINGERS CROSSED AND NO ADMINISTRATION THINKING ON THE POSITIVE SIDE THIS COULD BE AN GOOD 2021 FOR THE NCI AND NIH. THERE ARE A LOT OF UNKNOWNS, NOT THE LEAST IS THE ECONOMIC DEVASTATION THAT IS BEING ON EVERY PART OF THE WORLD NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT THIS NEW CONGRESS IS GOING TO HAVE TO GRAPPLE WITH BUT I'M HOPING THAT THEY WILL UNDERSTAND ONCE AND FOR ALL, THAT, BIOLOGY MATTERS AND THE KIND OF WORK THAT WE DO THE AT NCI AND THE NIH REALLY DESERVES TO BE FUNDED AT A MUCH HIGHER LEVEL AND I THINK THAT'S A MESSAGE THAT WE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO REALLY PUT IN FRONT OF PEOPLE. TIM ACTUALLY HAD A INTERESTING QUESTION IN THE CHAT AND I'M PRETTY SURE, KNOWING PAULETTE, SHE WILL WEIGH ON THIS. HE SUGGESTED THAT ESSENTIALLY, THAT WE MIGHT REACH OUT TO THE NEW PRESIDENT AS AN NCAB TO THE PRESIDENT-ELECT I SHOULD SAY, AND LET HIM KNOW THAT WE'RE AT HIS DISPOSAL TO WORK WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION TO MEET THE GOALS FOR CANCER RESEARCH. SO, WHERE ARE YOU, PAULETTE? >> IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO? >> SINCE THE NEW PRESIDENT OR THE PRESIDENT-ELECT IS JUST THAT, A PRESIDENT-ELECT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I WOULD SUB THE NCAB SIT TIGHT UNTIL HE ASSUMES HIS POSITION FULL TIME. NOW, WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THERE'S THE PRESIDENT'S CANCER PANEL SO THE PCB MAY WANT TO WORK TOGETHER IN SOME REGARD. >> SO, MAYBE TOWARDS THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER THEN AFTER PEOPLE ARE AT CABINET POSITIONS ARE FILLED AND WE HAVE AN HHS DIRECTOR AND HOPEFULLY THE SAME NCI DIRECTOR AND WHO KNOWS WHERE, IT'S BELIEVE ME, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS A FEW TIMES. ONE NEVER KNOWS. BUT, SO, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR PATRICK OR MYSELF OR NED OF ANY OF THE OTHER NCI STAFF. >> MARY, YOU WANTED TO TURN YOUR MIC ON AND TALK ABOUT THIS? >> SURE, HI. I'M JUST -- CAN YOU HAR ME NOW? >> WE THEY'RE YOU NOW. OK, GREAT. SO, I WAS JUST COMMENTING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL RISK ASSOCIATED WITH LOOKING UP A CASE TO CONGRESS THAT WE'VE LOST MUCH PRODUCTIVITY IN CANCER RESEARCH AS A RESULT OF THE PANDEMIC. DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME WHEN WE'VE BEEN SHALL T ABLE TO SUPPORT SALARIES ON OUR NCI GRANTS FOR EXAMPLE. SO, WE ARE MAYBE IN A DOUBLE BIND, WOULD WE BE PERCEIVED AS BEING A DOUBLE BIND OF HAVING THE EXPENSE ASSOCIATED WITH RESEARCH WHILE AT THE SAME TIME HAVING AN ACTION KNOWLEDGEMENT THAT WE LOST PRODUCTIVITY. >> IT'S A TWO-EDGED TOWARD, I AGREE. >> I AGREE. >> I MEAN, I THINK WE WERE VERY CLEAR BACK AT THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC AND I SAID EXPLICIT TEE THAT WE WOULD HOPE THAT INSTITUTIONS, ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS WOULD MAINTAIN EMPLOYMENT OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS. WE NEVER -- IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE FOR THE ENTERPRISE IF POST SACKS WERE LAID OFF AND PEOPLE TRIED TO BRING BACK OR WHATEVER SO THEY WERE SUPPORTIVE OF CLINICAL TRIALS, LAB, SCIENCE, WHATEVER WAS STOPPED SO THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO REBUILD THAT RESEARCH INFRASTRUCTURE. WE ALSO THOUGHT IT WOULD BE WORSE. WE ALSO KNEW AT THAT TIME THAT THAT WAS GOING TO CAUSE A PROBLEM IN THE BACK END BECAUSE THAT SCIENTIFIC WORK THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO GET DONE WASN'T GOING TO GET DONE BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN COME IN THE LABS AND THIS SORTS OF ACTIVITIES THAT WERE IMPOSSIBLE AND SO, THE GOOD NEWS IS IS FOR THE MOST PART IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND THOSE PERSONAL COSTS CONTINUED AND INDIVIDUALS ON GRANT AT LEAST, AT ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS WERE NOT LAID OFF AND IT'S NOT TRUE OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE PAID OFF GRANT. BUT NOW, WE HAVE THAT PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH DEFICITS AND PRODUCTIVITY AND AT PATRICK MENTIONS WE TRIED TO ESTIMATE THE SIZE OF THAT AND IT'S ENORMOUS. WHAT IF ANYTHING THE NCI CAN DO ABOUT THAT IN 2021 AND REALLY WHERE WE CAN USE SOME GUIDANCE AND REALLY THIS IS GOING TO BE UP TO CONGRESS. IF THEY APPROPRIATE FUNDS FOR FUNDS FOR THAT PURPOSE, WE WOULD ADDRESS THOSE RESEARCH PERIODS OF NON PRODUCTIVITY. WITHOUT SPECIFIC APPROPRIATIONS FOR THAT, IT WILL BE MUCH MORE LIMITED WHAT WE CAN DO. >> ALSO THOUGH, NED, YOU FRAMED IT REALLY WELL. GETTING TAMA TO MARI' QUESTION, IT'S A TWO EDGE SWORD. DURING FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC, OUR GOAL WAS TO PRESERVE AS MUCH INFRASTRUCTURE AS POSSIBLE AND WE, I THINK WE MORE THAN ACHIEVED THAT AND MAYBE INTRODUCING THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF WHAT ELSE IS OUT THERE, HOW MUCH MORE, HOW DEEP IS THAT HOLE IN TERMS OF LOST PRODUCTIVITY, IT MIGHT BE TO SET IT IN THAT SORT OF SCENARIO IS HERE WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO PRESERVE AND HERE IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE HAVE PRESERVED IN TERMS OF BUDGET AND INVESTMENTS PRIOR INVESTMENTS ESPECIALLY AND BY THE WAY, HERE ARE SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL COSTS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO -- OR WE HAVE AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT FOR AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE IN A REGULAR BUDGET APPROPRIATION. >> SO, IF I CAN COMMENT, I MEAN, I THINK THE DECISION OBVIOUSLY WAS COMPLETELY ON TARGET AND I WONDER IF THERE'S A WAY TO MODEL WHAT A DISASTER IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF YOU HOSPITAL DON YOU HADN'T DONE T HAT AND WHAT THE TRUE COST IF WE HADN'T MAINTAINED THE INFRASTRUCTURE. THESE COSTS, I THINK, ARE GOING TO PALE IN COMPARISON IF YOU LET THE INFRASTRUCTURE COLLAPSE. IF THERE'S A WAY INFORM GE TO GET A HANDLE ON WHAT THAT MIGHT BE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE RELATIVE COST RIGHT NOW IS SMALL COMPARED TO WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IF WE DIDN'T DO THIS? >> CORRECT. I THINK ESPECIALLY AREAS LIKE CLINICAL TRIALS, YOU KNOW, OUR NETWORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE TO SUPPORT THOSE AND I MEAN YOU CAN JUST GO THROUGH A LONG LIST OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS NOT, IT'S ACTUALLY IRREPLACEABLE. >> YOU DON'T FLIP A SWITCH AND BRING THEM BACK. >> I THINK THAT'S CLEAR. >> >> I THINK THAT'S THE KEY POINT. AND I AM 100% WITH PETER THAT NED, YOUR STANCE ON MAINTAINING THE WORKFORCE IS A CRITICAL CONDITION THAT WILL HAVE LONG-TERM PAY OFFICE AND REDUCE COSTS OF CANCER RESEARCH GOING FORWARD COMPARED TO WHAT THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD LOOK LIKE. I JUST THINK WE NEED TO BE IN SEEKING COMPENSATORY FUNDING FROM CONGRESS WE HAVE TO FRAME IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAN LOST PRODUCTIVITY AND I WORRY THAT UNDER THE COVERS YOU SAY YOU'VE PAID FOR THIS PERSONAL AND WHEN THEY THEY HAVE NOT BEEN WORKING AT THE LEVEL THAT THEY WERE WORKING BEFORE AND YOU HAVEN'T SPENT YOUR SUPPLY MONEY SO YOU STILL HAVE SUPPLY MONEY SITTING THERE THAT YOU KNOW IS UNEXPENDED SO, YOU WANT TO FRAME IT AS LOOK, WE PRESERVED THIS WORKFORCE AND THIS IS SAVED, HOW MUCH MONEY COMPARED TO IF WE LET THESE PEOPLE GO AND HAD TO RESTART WITH NEW TRAINING, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, BUT WE LOST THEIR CAPACITY DUE TO PHYSICAL DISTANCING ET CETERA FOR THEM TO WORK IN THE LAB OR ENROLLING PATIENTS ON TRIALS SO WE NEED TO EXTEND OUR PERSONNEL EXPENSES ON GRANTS FOR 10 OR 12 MONTHS OR HOWEVER MUCH TIME WE'VE BEEN COMPROMISED BY THE PANDEMIC AND ACKNOWLEDGE TAG WE HAVE SOME OF THE NON PERSONNEL FUNDS THAT ARE STILL PRESERVED SO I DON'T KNOW -- >> I AGREE, MARY. I WOULD FRAME IT THAT TO REMARKABLE DEGREE PRODUCTIVITY WAS MAINTAINED AND NO ONE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED 100% PRODUCTIVITY BUT THE FACT THAT HE IS PEOPLE ARE STILL WORKING AND COMMITTE -- IT'S TRI VIAL TOWHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN. >> I AGREE 100%. FRANCIS, WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT THROTHREE MINUTES. >> IN THAT CONTEXT, WE MIGHT BUILD IN THE CONTRIBUTION OF THE CANCER RESEARCH IS TO THE COVID AGAINST THE PANDEMIC. SO IT'S NOT JUST ADVANCING COUNCILOR RESEARCH AND THAT SOME OF THE EXPECT TEASE AND EFFORTS TO SUPPLEMENT THE EFFORTS AGAINST COVID. THAT MIGHT CREATE THE FUTURE. >> >> ONE OF THE THINGS WE CAN DO IS TO MAYBE, IN OUR OPEN SESSION, TO COMMEND THE NCI DIRECTOR AND THE NCI PERSONNEL FOR THE EXTENT TO WHICH THEY HAVE PRESERVED THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR NOT JUST FOR 2020 BUT FOR DECADES YET TO COME AND THAT IS POSITIONING THE NCI AND WE HAVE OTHER COSTS BUT FOR THE MOST IF THEY COULD JUST MAKE THAT STATEMENT AND OPEN SESSION AND POTENTIALLY MAKE A INFORMATION AND WE REALLY COMMEND THE NCI FOR THIS AND THAT'S A START AND GETTING ON RECORD HOW THIS HAS NOT -- THIS IS NOT COME TO ANYBODY'S ATTENTION YET. SO, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO PUT ON THE RECORD. WE COULD MAKE THAT MOTION IN OPEN SESSION? >> CAN YOU MAKE THE MOTION. >> OK. >> AND IT WILL BE IN THE MIMICS. >> ALL RIGHT. SORRY, I WAS GOING TO GET AROUND TO THE COMMITTEE BUT WE HAVE TO GET SOME IDEAS BUT MAYBE YOU I WANT TO THANK PATRICK AND UNCERTAIN TIMES BUT HE DID GIVE US THE OPTIONS SO, PLOWS HE LIKES MICK JAGGER OBVIOUSLY WHICH I'M A FAN ON AS WELL AND I HAVE MY SHIRT FROM THE LAST CONCERT AND IN CHICAGO SO. WE HAVE A MINUTE LEFT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS? WE WON'T BE MEETING UNTIL AFTER THE HOLIDAYS, AGAIN. WE'LL HAVE NEWS BEFORE THAT, WITH WE HOPE. BUT, I SUSPECT THAT WE'LL ALL GET NEWS AT THE SAME TIME IN TERMS OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE BUDGET AND EVERYBODY'S LOOK TO GO SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN 2021 SO, ANYWAY, WE'RE RIGHT AT TIME. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. VERY PRODUCTIVE INFORMATION. THANK YOU, NED, FOR YOUR INSIGHTS TODAY. I THINK IT HELPED THIS COMMITTEE ENORMOUSLY. >> THANK YOU ALL AGAIN. >> ALL RIGHT. >> THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATIVE DISCUSSION. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, ALL. >> BYE.