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We have Brittany with a
question,

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a historian. Yes.

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I'm pretty.

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I'm are are historian and
bioethics

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Brand-New.

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I was wondering
about some of the implications

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of Tuskegee

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beyond the participants.

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If they weren't informed of
their syphilis

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status, the people with whom
they were

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having relations might have also
been

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affected by their lack of
treatment.

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And what kind of considerations
were put in place for those,

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people who weren't enrolled in
the study?

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Oh, well, that's a very
interesting

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and important question.

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The assumption,

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of the, the investigators was
that

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and these were people whose
syphilitic

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infection the men in the study,

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their syphilitic infection
was at least of five years,

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and they were believed to be no
longer

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infectious.

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Now, the whole the the whole
understanding

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of how and why and under what

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circumstances you could get
super infected

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or get reinfected is, is murky.

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It's not discussed.

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I don't believe that there was
any,

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there any plans, you know, to
protect,

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you know,

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partners and children because
certainly,

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as we know, I mean, what's
happening

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today, there's been tremendous
increase

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in congenital syphilis, for
example,

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as the disease has become,
sort of has become more

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widespread.

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So it's it's an excellent
question.

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It's does not seem to be
something

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that was on the agenda

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of the Public Health Service.

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And frankly,
I don't see much discussion

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about it.

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You know, in the 1970s.

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Thank you.

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I'm wondering if I don't see
anyone

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running to the microphone.

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So I'd love to give you an
opportunity to.

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Sort of.

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Tell us about the at least the,

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legacy of the Tuskegee study

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through the Clinton
administration.

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Sure.

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What I was going to say was
that,

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so in,

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the study formally ends,

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in 1973.

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It does have this impact on the,

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you know, on the National
Research Act.

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I think that there remain, you
know,

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different, audiences
for the Tuskegee syphilis study

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that within
the African-American community,

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I think that there was much
greater

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sort of knowledge about the
study,

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and at least, at least in some
cases,

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a belief that the men in the
study

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were actually infected.

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That I think is not the case,
but nevertheless,

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I think there are good reasons
to believe that there were.

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And I think it came as what,

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sort of the white
medical establishment came

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as a, as a huge shock was in
like in 1992,

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sort of in the midst of, you
know, the,

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Aids epidemic was recognition.

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And I remember very clearly
the publication of an editorial

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in The New York Times that was
astounded.

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But African-Americans might be,
reluctant

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to participate in research
involving,

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HIV and that they might be
reluctant

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to take a vaccine
developed by the federal

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government again.

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And that's part of the,
I would say, the long standing

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legacy

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within at least some elements
of the African American

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community,

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distrust of the role
of the federal government.

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So I think

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one of the things that I also
found

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very interesting was that,

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there had I discovered, in 1994

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that there had been no, apology,

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you know, or
there was a financial

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settlement,

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out of court
that the government entered

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into,

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that awarded each of the men in
the study

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or their families

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$32,000 and lifelong,

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medical care, if they wanted it.

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And, you know,

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various of and,

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but there had been
no presidential apology.

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And I think it was in the wake
of the president, President

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Clinton's apology to those
Americans

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whose lives have been darkened

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by the shadow of the atom,
namely,

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the human radiation experiments.

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And, you know,
the revelation of large scale,

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exposure of Americans
to ionizing radiation during the

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Cold War.

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President Clinton offered an
apology,

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and one year later, he invited
men

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from the study and their
survivors

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or their survivors to the white
House,

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for, a federal apology.

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And this came with the
establishment

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of a bioethics institute at
Tuskegee,

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University.

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And funds to explore,

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sort of,
you know, long standing racial

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disparities

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in human experimentation in both
its

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risks and benefits.

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Yeah.

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And I think at the time, there.
Were.

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Maybe 3 or 4 men who were
remained

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alive at that session
with President Clinton

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and I think the, the, the last
surviving,

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man, passed a number of years
ago.

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That's right. I think today,

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there is if people are
interested,

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I can recommend,

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to, video,

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interviews or programs
I think that are very revealing

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and that have the benefit of
you get to see

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some of the investigators, or at
least

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one investigator who is still
surviving

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and, some of the men in the
study,

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and it gives you

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a much more appreciation
for what they experience,

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sort of over the course of those
40

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years and subsequent as well.