We have Brittany with a question,
a historian. Yes.
I'm pretty.
I'm are are historian and bioethics
Brand-New.
I was wondering about some of the implications
of Tuskegee
beyond the participants.
If they weren't informed of their syphilis
status, the people with whom they were
having relations might have also been
affected by their lack of treatment.
And what kind of considerations were put in place for those,
people who weren't enrolled in the study?
Oh, well, that's a very interesting
and important question.
The assumption,
of the, the investigators was that
and these were people whose syphilitic
infection the men in the study,
their syphilitic infection was at least of five years,
and they were believed to be no longer
infectious.
Now, the whole the the whole understanding
of how and why and under what
circumstances you could get super infected
or get reinfected is, is murky.
It's not discussed.
I don't believe that there was any,
there any plans, you know, to protect,
you know,
partners and children because certainly,
as we know, I mean, what's happening
today, there's been tremendous increase
in congenital syphilis, for example,
as the disease has become, sort of has become more
widespread.
So it's it's an excellent question.
It's does not seem to be something
that was on the agenda
of the Public Health Service.
And frankly, I don't see much discussion
about it.
You know, in the 1970s.
Thank you.
I'm wondering if I don't see anyone
running to the microphone.
So I'd love to give you an opportunity to.
Sort of.
Tell us about the at least the,
legacy of the Tuskegee study
through the Clinton administration.
Sure.
What I was going to say was that,
so in,
the study formally ends,
in 1973.
It does have this impact on the,
you know, on the National Research Act.
I think that there remain, you know,
different, audiences for the Tuskegee syphilis study
that within the African-American community,
I think that there was much greater
sort of knowledge about the study,
and at least, at least in some cases,
a belief that the men in the study
were actually infected.
That I think is not the case, but nevertheless,
I think there are good reasons to believe that there were.
And I think it came as what,
sort of the white medical establishment came
as a, as a huge shock was in like in 1992,
sort of in the midst of, you know, the,
Aids epidemic was recognition.
And I remember very clearly the publication of an editorial
in The New York Times that was astounded.
But African-Americans might be, reluctant
to participate in research involving,
HIV and that they might be reluctant
to take a vaccine developed by the federal
government again.
And that's part of the, I would say, the long standing
legacy
within at least some elements of the African American
community,
distrust of the role of the federal government.
So I think
one of the things that I also found
very interesting was that,
there had I discovered, in 1994
that there had been no, apology,
you know, or there was a financial
settlement,
out of court that the government entered
into,
that awarded each of the men in the study
or their families
$32,000 and lifelong,
medical care, if they wanted it.
And, you know,
various of and,
but there had been no presidential apology.
And I think it was in the wake of the president, President
Clinton's apology to those Americans
whose lives have been darkened
by the shadow of the atom, namely,
the human radiation experiments.
And, you know, the revelation of large scale,
exposure of Americans to ionizing radiation during the
Cold War.
President Clinton offered an apology,
and one year later, he invited men
from the study and their survivors
or their survivors to the white House,
for, a federal apology.
And this came with the establishment
of a bioethics institute at Tuskegee,
University.
And funds to explore,
sort of, you know, long standing racial
disparities
in human experimentation in both its
risks and benefits.
Yeah.
And I think at the time, there. Were.
Maybe 3 or 4 men who were remained
alive at that session with President Clinton
and I think the, the, the last surviving,
man, passed a number of years ago.
That's right. I think today,
there is if people are interested,
I can recommend,
to, video,
interviews or programs I think that are very revealing
and that have the benefit of you get to see
some of the investigators, or at least
one investigator who is still surviving
and, some of the men in the study,
and it gives you
a much more appreciation for what they experience,
sort of over the course of those 40
years and subsequent as well.