1 00:00:08,174 --> 00:00:10,910 So, a few of our examples. 2 00:00:10,910 --> 00:00:15,448 This short hint, because I always get asked this question. 3 00:00:15,448 --> 00:00:19,986 How many humans do I need when I know nothing? 4 00:00:19,986 --> 00:00:24,524 Sometimes the basic element has to do more with stability 5 00:00:24,524 --> 00:00:29,062 of the estimating equation than with really solving the problem. 6 00:00:29,062 --> 00:00:32,699 So, you may run one of these calculations 7 00:00:32,699 --> 00:00:37,237 that tells you, you only need three people per arm. 8 00:00:37,704 --> 00:00:41,141 You will need more than three people per arm. 9 00:00:41,141 --> 00:00:47,313 Fifteen people per arm or rats per arm, et cetera, tend to be the minimum number. 10 00:00:47,313 --> 00:00:51,151 This is a good rule of thumb for early studies. 11 00:00:51,151 --> 00:00:52,285 Why is this? 12 00:00:52,285 --> 00:00:58,458 Well, when you have 15 -- 12 to 15 values, you actually get a somewhat stable 13 00:00:58,458 --> 00:01:01,127 variance equation. I'm not saying it's right. 14 00:01:01,127 --> 00:01:07,267 It could be that you have weird sampling, and the variance is off because of bias, 15 00:01:07,267 --> 00:01:10,737 but the equation itself for variance stabilizes between -- 16 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:15,742 sometimes as low as 10, but usually 12 to 15 numbers in it. 17 00:01:17,043 --> 00:01:19,712 If you're using a Bayesian analysis technique, 18 00:01:19,712 --> 00:01:24,284 sometimes you need at least 70 people per arm before the analysis 19 00:01:24,284 --> 00:01:27,353 is, in fact, stable. 20 00:01:28,621 --> 00:01:30,890 A lot of our studies, 21 00:01:30,890 --> 00:01:37,263 a lot of our analyses and regressions float to something called the Z test. 22 00:01:37,263 --> 00:01:41,367 However, if you have a smaller sample size below 23 00:01:41,367 --> 00:01:46,806 20 or 30, even sometimes below 100, you need to check t-distribution. 24 00:01:46,806 --> 00:01:50,910 If you're doing something like logistic regression, principal components 25 00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:56,850 analysis, et cetera, you usually need a minimum of 10 participants per variable. 26 00:01:56,850 --> 00:01:59,552 These are individual participants per variable. 27 00:02:00,687 --> 00:02:06,626 And in some cases, you may need 100 per variable in order to get stable estimates. 28 00:02:06,626 --> 00:02:11,464 This is for like -- the math will spew out of the computer, 29 00:02:11,464 --> 00:02:14,067 it doesn't mean the functions are stable. 30 00:02:14,067 --> 00:02:17,770 So, there's this balance of wanting to find significant results. 31 00:02:17,770 --> 00:02:23,343 What do I need to if I think these are the differences I'm aiming for? 32 00:02:23,343 --> 00:02:29,115 And then also, how many people do I need for the math to be sound? 33 00:02:29,115 --> 00:02:31,551 So, now, we're going to do 34 00:02:31,551 --> 00:02:36,389 -- it's not truly a live statistical consult, because I took screenshots. 35 00:02:36,389 --> 00:02:40,627 But we're going to look at sample size and power calculations. 36 00:02:40,627 --> 00:02:44,864 And actually, this isn't from your -- this year's hypothesis testing 37 00:02:44,864 --> 00:02:49,502 lecture now, because Paul gave it for you all last week instead. 38 00:02:49,502 --> 00:02:54,507 But I'm going to talk about an example of cholesterol and hypertensive men. 39 00:02:54,507 --> 00:02:57,977 Let's say you have data on 25 hypertensive men, 40 00:02:58,745 --> 00:03:02,148 mean is 220 for their total cholesterol, 41 00:03:02,148 --> 00:03:06,519 and you have a sample standard deviation of 38.6. 42 00:03:06,519 --> 00:03:14,260 If I go out and I look at national population data, 20 to 74-year-old male population, 43 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:20,066 the mean serum cholesterol is 211 with a standard deviation of 46. 44 00:03:20,066 --> 00:03:24,904 So, their standard deviation of population is actually much higher 45 00:03:24,904 --> 00:03:27,340 than in my little sample. 46 00:03:27,340 --> 00:03:29,742 Not common, but that happens. 47 00:03:29,742 --> 00:03:34,614 The question is, my hypertensive men, is their cholesterol different 48 00:03:34,614 --> 00:03:36,549 from the average population? 49 00:03:36,549 --> 00:03:41,421 Now, it could be, because sometimes as we're treating hypertension, we're 50 00:03:41,421 --> 00:03:44,991 treating a lot of other things including hypercholesterolemia. 51 00:03:44,991 --> 00:03:50,663 So, we're going to calculate the power with the numbers that are given. 52 00:03:50,663 --> 00:03:55,735 So, what's the power to see a 9-point difference in mean cholesterol 53 00:03:55,735 --> 00:03:57,003 with 25 people? 54 00:03:57,003 --> 00:04:02,041 There's the question, is this a single sample or a two-sample test? 55 00:04:02,041 --> 00:04:07,914 If I'm comparing the kind of population level information, this is really a one 56 00:04:07,914 --> 00:04:08,881 sample test. 57 00:04:08,881 --> 00:04:15,488 So, Russ Lenth has set up a whole bunch of different software what's called Piface. 58 00:04:16,022 --> 00:04:18,157 There are lots of different software programs 59 00:04:18,157 --> 00:04:23,062 you can use for this, but this is free and it has a cute cow picture. 60 00:04:23,062 --> 00:04:24,597 So, how can I resist? 61 00:04:24,597 --> 00:04:26,733 He also has some really great FAQs 62 00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:29,802 or frequently asked questions and other elements on his website. 63 00:04:29,802 --> 00:04:34,407 He also has a view that I deeply agree with that, "Please don't ask me 64 00:04:34,407 --> 00:04:35,642 for post hoc power." 65 00:04:39,646 --> 00:04:40,446 So, it's 66 00:04:40,446 --> 00:04:44,784 a lovely article on why you shouldn't do post hoc power. 67 00:04:44,784 --> 00:04:50,923 Anyway, you've got this drop down for what type of analysis you want to do. 68 00:04:50,923 --> 00:04:54,294 So, let's say you had a two-sample test. 69 00:04:54,294 --> 00:04:59,832 Let's say I actually had 25 people that were normal that I pulled out 70 00:04:59,832 --> 00:05:02,201 medical records on, and 25 people 71 00:05:02,201 --> 00:05:05,772 that were hypertensive that I pulled medical records on. 72 00:05:07,473 --> 00:05:13,646 I can set up all this information and figure out what my power is. 73 00:05:13,646 --> 00:05:18,918 So, I can either set my sample size and calculate the power, 74 00:05:18,918 --> 00:05:23,923 or I can set my power and calculate my sample size. 75 00:05:23,923 --> 00:05:28,161 Well, let's do it for the one sample test. 76 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:34,767 If I put in my sigma, and I put in the true difference of means, 77 00:05:34,767 --> 00:05:39,172 if I went 90 percent power, I need 170 people. 78 00:05:39,172 --> 00:05:43,576 I basically have no power with my little sample of 79 00:05:43,576 --> 00:05:47,980 25 to test for any types of difference in cholesterol. 80 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:53,252 But you know, I kind of chose the 9 as a difference, 81 00:05:53,252 --> 00:05:55,922 because that's what my difference was. 82 00:05:56,956 --> 00:06:00,927 But what is a clinically meaningful difference in total cholesterol? 83 00:06:00,927 --> 00:06:04,130 What should I be testing as that difference? 84 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:09,669 These are all questions we would ask each other in advance of the study 85 00:06:09,669 --> 00:06:15,641 and not afterwards when you come to me and say, "I have 25 medical records. 86 00:06:15,641 --> 00:06:21,214 This is the data I have." So, what's nice about trying to design 87 00:06:21,214 --> 00:06:25,184 the study is I can move all these values around. 88 00:06:25,618 --> 00:06:28,121 Okay, you can't get 170 medical records. 89 00:06:28,121 --> 00:06:31,758 What can you do? What other assumptions can we make? 90 00:06:31,758 --> 00:06:33,926 So, you can kind of see 91 00:06:33,926 --> 00:06:39,499 if it's not tenable at all to do this study, or what your trade-offs are. 92 00:06:39,499 --> 00:06:41,134 So, a different study, 93 00:06:41,134 --> 00:06:46,572 going back to the two sample which I meant to put that slide down here. 94 00:06:46,572 --> 00:06:50,877 Let's say I have a standard deviation of 2 in each arm. 95 00:06:50,877 --> 00:06:52,345 And you may not 96 00:06:52,345 --> 00:06:56,949 -- sometimes you have different standard deviations for each study arm, I'm 97 00:06:56,949 --> 00:07:02,789 going to run a two-sided alpha 0.05 test, And we'll look at a true difference 98 00:07:02,789 --> 00:07:07,627 of means of 1, 90 percent power, solve for my sample size. 99 00:07:07,627 --> 00:07:11,697 So, sigma is to 2. 2, I'd say, have equal. 100 00:07:11,697 --> 00:07:14,801 I'm going to have two-tailed test on equivalence. 101 00:07:14,801 --> 00:07:18,304 I defined my alpha. Difference of means is 1. 102 00:07:18,304 --> 00:07:22,975 And if I went 90 percent power, and I just hit solve 103 00:07:22,975 --> 00:07:28,781 for a sample size, it's going to tell me I need 85 in each arm. 104 00:07:28,781 --> 00:07:32,351 But you can also make these nice little graphs. 105 00:07:32,351 --> 00:07:37,924 So, you can say along the y-axis, this tall vertical axis, "That's my power." 106 00:07:37,924 --> 00:07:44,664 And then I can see for the sample size in a single study arm on my x-axis 107 00:07:44,664 --> 00:07:50,603 how much power -- oops, I have depending on where I am in the curve. 108 00:07:50,603 --> 00:07:55,741 So, if I only recruit 50 people, what's my power going to be? 109 00:07:56,742 --> 00:07:57,510 These are 110 00:07:57,510 --> 00:08:02,014 nice curves to put in your IRB applications or your grant applications. 111 00:08:02,014 --> 00:08:06,552 So, especially if you're asking for money, then you can say, "Listen, 112 00:08:06,552 --> 00:08:08,821 if you give me less money, 113 00:08:08,821 --> 00:08:14,093 and I have fewer people in my study, this is the tradeoff that's happening. 114 00:08:14,093 --> 00:08:18,598 Are you sure you want me to make that tradeoff?" So, 115 00:08:18,598 --> 00:08:21,601 let's talk about dose escalation a little bit. 116 00:08:22,935 --> 00:08:26,939 Those -- again, remember, we have basic sample size formulas. 117 00:08:26,939 --> 00:08:30,943 Most of us live in Phase I and Phase II. 118 00:08:30,943 --> 00:08:35,748 We're not going to use those basic sample size formulas as often. 119 00:08:35,748 --> 00:08:42,121 One of the simple Phase I types of studies that we do are called dose escalation 120 00:08:42,121 --> 00:08:42,522 studies. 121 00:08:42,522 --> 00:08:46,526 We're looking many times at least first in human studies 122 00:08:46,526 --> 00:08:51,731 with a new compound for something called a dose limiting toxicity or DLT. 123 00:08:52,465 --> 00:08:56,569 Now, it might be that this drug or this compound has been used 124 00:08:56,569 --> 00:09:00,673 in humans before, but now I'm trying it in a different patient group. 125 00:09:00,673 --> 00:09:03,843 A lot of these study designs came out of oncology. 126 00:09:03,843 --> 00:09:06,045 So, they came from the cancer world. 127 00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:10,950 We've been modifying them over the years for kind of, you know, less severe illnesses. 128 00:09:10,950 --> 00:09:16,188 And there are a lot of different ways to do Phase I and Phase II studies. 129 00:09:16,188 --> 00:09:21,060 But I'm going to go through what's called sometimes the 3x3, or there are 130 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:25,932 a lot of other names, Fibonacci sequence, although it's not a real Fibonacci sequence. 131 00:09:25,932 --> 00:09:30,770 But these are kind of the basic models used for several decades for Phase 132 00:09:30,770 --> 00:09:34,941 I studies, and probably large portion of studies still today use them. 133 00:09:34,941 --> 00:09:36,676 But these have been modified 134 00:09:36,676 --> 00:09:40,846 in the last couple of decades just a little more sophisticated studies. 135 00:09:40,846 --> 00:09:46,218 But I want you to understand kind of like the basement where we all started. 136 00:09:46,218 --> 00:09:50,556 So, in Phase I, you decide on a handful of dose levels. 137 00:09:50,556 --> 00:09:53,693 You decide kind of what toxicities are so bad, 138 00:09:53,693 --> 00:09:57,496 you would stop, and you wouldn't give people that dose anymore. 139 00:09:57,496 --> 00:09:59,932 So, it might be that people die. 140 00:09:59,932 --> 00:10:01,300 It might be that, 141 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:05,471 you know, they have uncontrolled vomiting, whatever you want to call it. 142 00:10:06,672 --> 00:10:09,976 Usually, you use something like the common toxicity criteria. 143 00:10:09,976 --> 00:10:15,114 They're AE grading, you'd say, like anything that's a Grade 3 or Grade 4 144 00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:16,949 AE or something like that. 145 00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:20,853 You know, if you have a disease that's not that bad, 146 00:10:21,087 --> 00:10:24,991 you aren't going to be less willing to tolerate adverse events. 147 00:10:24,991 --> 00:10:28,661 And then we have some interventions that never cost toxicities. 148 00:10:28,661 --> 00:10:33,599 So, you've got to figure out something else that you want to measure. 149 00:10:33,599 --> 00:10:38,204 Typically, what happens in these Phase III, 3x3 designs, is at least 150 00:10:38,204 --> 00:10:42,575 three patients will be treated on each dose level, in each cohort. 151 00:10:42,842 --> 00:10:44,844 That's where this 3 comes from. 152 00:10:44,844 --> 00:10:47,813 This isn't a power and sample size calculation issue. 153 00:10:47,813 --> 00:10:53,119 This is when it comes down to it, how many willing -- how many people are 154 00:10:53,119 --> 00:10:54,453 you willing to have 155 00:10:54,453 --> 00:10:59,091 on a totally unknown substance and basically kill at any given point in time? 156 00:10:59,091 --> 00:11:03,396 That sounds very ugly, and I've said it before, but I think it's 157 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:08,034 really important to understand the gravity of some of the work that we're doing. 158 00:11:09,301 --> 00:11:10,603 And sometimes when there's 159 00:11:10,603 --> 00:11:15,207 no choice, you put more people on and you are taking a higher risk. 160 00:11:15,207 --> 00:11:17,143 They need to understand those risks. 161 00:11:17,143 --> 00:11:21,080 And we'll talk about that more in the next segment of lectures. 162 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,685 But important element here is sometimes even though we want to try three people 163 00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:31,590 in a given dose, we do it one by one, just in case, you know, two people die, 164 00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:36,762 and they weren't supposed to, there's no reason to try it on the third person. 165 00:11:36,762 --> 00:11:42,334 So, kind of the old way that we would do this is we would enroll three patients. 166 00:11:42,334 --> 00:11:46,472 If zero out of three patients have these dose limiting toxicities, we'd escalate 167 00:11:46,472 --> 00:11:47,740 to the new dose. 168 00:11:47,740 --> 00:11:51,877 If you saw a dose limiting toxicity in one of the three patients, 169 00:11:51,877 --> 00:11:53,779 we expanded the cohort to six. 170 00:11:53,779 --> 00:11:58,584 So, we added three more people to it, because maybe it was a fluke. 171 00:11:58,584 --> 00:12:02,722 It may not be related to this drug that we're giving them. 172 00:12:02,722 --> 00:12:08,260 And we would escalate to a new dose if zero of the next three new patients 173 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:09,628 didn't develop that DLT. 174 00:12:09,628 --> 00:12:13,766 In other words, only one out of three at a given -- 175 00:12:13,766 --> 00:12:18,738 or one out of six at a given dose developed a dose limiting toxicity. 176 00:12:18,738 --> 00:12:24,443 The idea is that you are trying to work your way to what's called a maximum 177 00:12:24,443 --> 00:12:26,412 tolerated dose or MTD. 178 00:12:26,412 --> 00:12:30,983 This is the dose level immediately below the level at which two 179 00:12:30,983 --> 00:12:36,655 or more patients in a cohort of three or six experienced that dose limiting toxicity. 180 00:12:36,655 --> 00:12:39,692 We're trying to go for a safe dose. 181 00:12:39,692 --> 00:12:43,129 Typically, the maximum dosage is pre-specified in the protocol. 182 00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:47,867 So, we're going to stop at the MTD or the maximum dosage. 183 00:12:47,867 --> 00:12:49,969 This is the big picture. 184 00:12:49,969 --> 00:12:53,005 We're going to go through it in steps. 185 00:12:54,373 --> 00:12:56,442 So, first, I enroll three people. 186 00:12:56,442 --> 00:13:00,579 One of two to three or three to four things can happen. 187 00:13:00,579 --> 00:13:03,682 Maybe none of them have a dose limiting toxicity. 188 00:13:03,682 --> 00:13:07,820 One of them or two or three of them have a dose 189 00:13:07,820 --> 00:13:09,188 limiting toxicity. 190 00:13:13,826 --> 00:13:14,894 Of course, 191 00:13:14,894 --> 00:13:19,064 I drink water or my voice gets worse. 192 00:13:19,064 --> 00:13:24,837 So, nobody has a DLT, I escalate to the new dose. 193 00:13:24,837 --> 00:13:33,212 One out of three have a DLT, I enroll three more people at the same dose. 194 00:13:33,212 --> 00:13:39,518 And if none of those new three people have it, I escalate. 195 00:13:39,518 --> 00:13:43,689 If one or more in this new group 196 00:13:43,689 --> 00:13:49,461 have the DLT, depending on my risk tolerance, I may stop. 197 00:13:49,461 --> 00:13:55,768 But let's say I only have three people on that lower dose. 198 00:13:56,468 --> 00:13:59,138 I don't really know that much. 199 00:13:59,138 --> 00:14:05,811 So, what I might do is in fact drop down a dose and start over. 200 00:14:05,811 --> 00:14:13,385 So, what about two or three people out of my first three have a dose limiting toxicity? 201 00:14:13,385 --> 00:14:18,257 You may stop, or I might drop down a dose, fill 202 00:14:18,257 --> 00:14:24,029 in three more people at that lower dose, make sure it's actually okay. 203 00:14:24,029 --> 00:14:26,265 And I might start over. 204 00:14:26,265 --> 00:14:29,435 I might say, "Well, you know, it was flu season. 205 00:14:29,435 --> 00:14:32,905 I did have my flu shot." But it was flu season. 206 00:14:32,905 --> 00:14:35,441 These people actually where they were already immunosuppressed, 207 00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:40,512 and it seemed like they died of influenza, so we kind of want to restart this. 208 00:14:40,512 --> 00:14:44,950 We're not so sure how much of this is really due to our therapy. 209 00:14:44,950 --> 00:14:46,485 So, you have rules. 210 00:14:46,485 --> 00:14:50,356 I don't want you to talk yourself out of your rules. 211 00:14:50,356 --> 00:14:54,593 You need to think to have reasonable rules in the first place. 212 00:14:54,593 --> 00:14:56,695 But sometimes something weird has happened. 213 00:14:56,695 --> 00:15:00,232 And you went to kind of plan these different starts. 214 00:15:00,232 --> 00:15:04,436 I will also tell you, sometimes this happens on your first dose. 215 00:15:04,436 --> 00:15:09,375 You should always have a backup plan to drop down even from your lowest 216 00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:10,976 -- supposedly lowest dose. 217 00:15:10,976 --> 00:15:16,382 Here it is in a nice chart for those of you who prefer the charts. 218 00:15:16,382 --> 00:15:20,920 This is actually taken out of something that Peter Thall at MD Anderson 219 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,090 did, which is interesting because Peter Thall really doesn't like this design. 220 00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:31,030 But the basic idea is how many patients do you have with a DLT and the decision 221 00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:33,098 you should make. A few thoughts. 222 00:15:33,098 --> 00:15:39,371 So, if you have zero in three and zero in three, you really had to get here through 223 00:15:39,371 --> 00:15:43,909 some de-escalation rule that had to have been applied at a higher dose. 224 00:15:43,909 --> 00:15:49,481 Again, sometimes if I had one in three and then zero in three, I might escalate 225 00:15:49,481 --> 00:15:54,386 unless it was a de-escalation rule that got me to this zero in three. 226 00:15:56,021 --> 00:15:57,656 But you have to 227 00:15:57,656 --> 00:16:02,528 decide what's your risk of a DLT that you're willing to take. 228 00:16:02,528 --> 00:16:07,800 Is it, you know, 16 to 17 percent, or is it 33 percent? 229 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,837 So, what's the risk of having that severe adverse event? 230 00:16:11,837 --> 00:16:18,344 It may or may not be that severe depending on how you set your toxicity levels. 231 00:16:18,344 --> 00:16:22,414 What percentage of patients are you willing to have that? 232 00:16:22,414 --> 00:16:27,119 When you're working with so few patients here, the confidence interval around 233 00:16:27,119 --> 00:16:28,587 it is really huge. 234 00:16:28,587 --> 00:16:33,025 This is the reason a lot of statisticians now don't use these. 235 00:16:33,025 --> 00:16:38,230 They use these different adaptive designs to enroll more people and get more information. 236 00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:43,769 But it is important to figure out like, if there is nothing available except death, 237 00:16:43,769 --> 00:16:49,308 you might be willing to tolerate a lot of toxicity, or you may say no. 238 00:16:49,742 --> 00:16:53,946 So, it's important to figure out what percent of toxicity 239 00:16:53,946 --> 00:16:57,516 and what toxicities should be your dividing line. 240 00:16:57,516 --> 00:17:02,321 So, those stars in that previous table, again, you're implicitly targeting 241 00:17:02,321 --> 00:17:08,193 a dose with the probability of toxicity less than or equal to 17 percent. 242 00:17:08,193 --> 00:17:15,334 But if you're going to look at the two out of six, then you're saying you're willing 243 00:17:15,334 --> 00:17:20,773 to have an MTD with a probability of toxicity at about 33 percent. 244 00:17:20,773 --> 00:17:27,079 Key point in these trials, patients do not go on to the next dose level 245 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:31,683 until all the patients at the previous dose level are beyond 246 00:17:31,683 --> 00:17:36,288 the time frame where you plan to be looking for toxicity. 247 00:17:36,822 --> 00:17:40,059 Do not tell me you need to keep enrolling them, "But 248 00:17:40,059 --> 00:17:44,763 they're here." You have to make sure it's safe to put them on the next level. 249 00:17:44,763 --> 00:17:46,498 Your patients have to be there. 250 00:17:46,498 --> 00:17:50,035 You have to finish analyzing -- you have to finish following them. 251 00:17:50,035 --> 00:17:51,804 You have to clean their data. 252 00:17:51,804 --> 00:17:54,740 Analyze their data. And make a decision, do we escalate? 253 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:55,974 Yes or no? 254 00:17:55,974 --> 00:18:01,246 If you do not have the data to decide if you can escalate, 255 00:18:01,246 --> 00:18:02,881 you cannot ethically escalate. 256 00:18:02,881 --> 00:18:06,552 Again, not a power or sample size calculation issue. 257 00:18:09,688 --> 00:18:12,658 There are lots and lots and lots of new methods. 258 00:18:12,658 --> 00:18:15,360 Almost all of them are better than the method 259 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,231 I just told you, but they are also all based on that method. 260 00:18:19,231 --> 00:18:22,534 Sometimes in Phase I now I'm randomizing to multiple different arms. 261 00:18:22,534 --> 00:18:26,738 I may have various control arms, might be placebo, might be active control. Why? 262 00:18:26,738 --> 00:18:29,108 Because when I'm expecting a lot of toxicity, 263 00:18:29,675 --> 00:18:35,314 again, I need to have this comparison to figure out, is this additional toxicity 264 00:18:35,314 --> 00:18:40,953 because of my new therapy, or is this my general background rate of toxicity? 265 00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:43,355 Especially when I'm dealing with diseases 266 00:18:43,355 --> 00:18:47,759 that maybe I don't want to have a lot of toxicity, 267 00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:55,000 I want to make sure that they're safer, I might put six to 15 plus people per arm. 268 00:18:55,367 --> 00:19:00,572 Also, if I'm expecting a wide heterogeneity in the effects and the toxicities, 269 00:19:00,572 --> 00:19:06,145 I may want to include more people in this Phase I layer of work. 270 00:19:06,145 --> 00:19:12,117 But there are CRM, Bayesian methods, and lots of different methods you can use here.