1 00:00:08,641 --> 00:00:10,010 So, I want to 2 00:00:10,010 --> 00:00:13,813 end with an example of a study that kind of highlights 3 00:00:13,813 --> 00:00:17,951 some of the points that I've tried to lay out for you. 4 00:00:17,951 --> 00:00:20,353 And this is a study called ENRICHD. 5 00:00:20,353 --> 00:00:23,123 It was done a couple of years ago. 6 00:00:23,123 --> 00:00:24,157 It's over now. 7 00:00:24,157 --> 00:00:26,926 Called Enhancing Recovery in Coronary Heart Disease Patients. 8 00:00:26,926 --> 00:00:30,697 And the basic premise of ENRICHD comes from data like these. 9 00:00:31,598 --> 00:00:36,436 This is not the ENRICHD data, these are other data from an earlier study. 10 00:00:36,436 --> 00:00:39,539 And it's a phenomenon that we know very well. 11 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:43,676 And the phenomenon is this, that after somebody has a heart attack, 12 00:00:43,676 --> 00:00:47,147 if they're depressed, they are much more likely to die 13 00:00:47,147 --> 00:00:50,583 than if they're not depressed. 14 00:00:51,451 --> 00:00:53,686 So, what you can see, 15 00:00:53,686 --> 00:00:57,223 this is a man's post-MI, post heart attack. 16 00:00:57,223 --> 00:01:03,396 And within two months post-MI, as you can see here, we see a divergence 17 00:01:03,396 --> 00:01:08,701 of participants who become depressed versus those who do not become depressed. 18 00:01:08,701 --> 00:01:13,139 And you can see the mortality rates just go up. 19 00:01:13,139 --> 00:01:17,977 It's a phenomenon that we're -- it's a very real phenomenon. 20 00:01:18,311 --> 00:01:23,316 So, the ENRICHD trial said, "We need to do something about this. 21 00:01:23,316 --> 00:01:27,053 Let's see what happens if we treat the depression. 22 00:01:27,053 --> 00:01:31,458 Let's try that." So, that's what the ENRICHD trial was. 23 00:01:31,458 --> 00:01:37,097 And they also knew that depression was very strongly linked to social support. 24 00:01:37,097 --> 00:01:40,834 So, they actually had an intervention, a dual intervention, 25 00:01:40,834 --> 00:01:44,170 to target low social support and high depression. 26 00:01:45,205 --> 00:01:46,706 And so, the 27 00:01:46,706 --> 00:01:51,678 hypothesis was that they wanted to test whether treating depression 28 00:01:51,678 --> 00:01:56,149 and low social support right after a heart attack 29 00:01:56,149 --> 00:02:01,654 was going to reduce death rates and non-fatal recurrent heart attacks. 30 00:02:01,654 --> 00:02:03,123 Simple study, right? 31 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:05,391 It was not simple. 32 00:02:05,391 --> 00:02:10,096 So, ultimately, they enrolled almost 2,500 post-heart attack participants 33 00:02:10,096 --> 00:02:13,600 that either presented with depression or low 34 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,070 social support or both, very commonly both. 35 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:22,775 And they randomized into a group that got usual care versus one 36 00:02:22,775 --> 00:02:27,947 that got a psychosocial intervention to treat the social support and depression. 37 00:02:27,947 --> 00:02:32,719 And their endpoints were cardiac mortality and a recurrent heart attack. 38 00:02:32,719 --> 00:02:37,490 And they followed them for almost three and a half years. 39 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:42,228 And they were totally masked in terms of their primary outcomes 40 00:02:42,228 --> 00:02:45,698 and they did an intent to treat analysis. 41 00:02:45,732 --> 00:02:51,070 So, here is what I want you -- no, this is not what I want you to see. 42 00:02:51,070 --> 00:02:52,539 Their inclusionary criteria were that 43 00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:56,709 they were going to enroll people within 28 days of having a heart attack. 44 00:02:56,709 --> 00:02:58,778 Now, they wanted to enroll them quicker. 45 00:02:58,778 --> 00:03:01,447 They wanted to get them more quickly than that. 46 00:03:01,447 --> 00:03:05,285 Because you saw on that graph that the divergence happened at two months, 47 00:03:05,285 --> 00:03:09,656 so they wanted to enroll them as quickly as possible but they knew that 48 00:03:09,656 --> 00:03:13,726 it would not be feasible to enroll them much more quickly than this. 49 00:03:13,726 --> 00:03:14,661 Why is that? 50 00:03:14,661 --> 00:03:18,097 Well, you have a patient who just had a heart attack, 51 00:03:18,097 --> 00:03:20,600 they're in a hospital, there are families involved, 52 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,870 they have other things to think about besides your study. 53 00:03:23,870 --> 00:03:28,408 So, they settled on recruiting them within about a month after a heart attack, 54 00:03:28,741 --> 00:03:32,445 and they had a bunch of criteria 55 00:03:32,445 --> 00:03:37,183 -- they had some inclusionary criteria that could substantiate 56 00:03:37,183 --> 00:03:41,387 the fact that they had a heart attack. 57 00:03:41,387 --> 00:03:44,023 They looked at enzymatic increases. 58 00:03:44,023 --> 00:03:48,228 And then they identified whether they were depressed 59 00:03:48,228 --> 00:03:55,335 and/or had low social support and there are good measures to do that. 60 00:03:55,335 --> 00:03:59,305 Here's what I want to show you. 61 00:03:59,305 --> 00:04:01,941 This is the CONSORT diagram. 62 00:04:01,941 --> 00:04:06,145 They screened almost 34,000 people to get 2,481. 63 00:04:06,145 --> 00:04:08,781 So, they screened this number. 64 00:04:08,881 --> 00:04:12,218 Some didn't meet criteria for having had 65 00:04:12,218 --> 00:04:15,989 a heart attack, right, but not that many. 66 00:04:15,989 --> 00:04:21,661 Well, assume they had a heart attack, so they met that criteria. 67 00:04:21,661 --> 00:04:26,866 And then some of them, fair number, 7,000 of them almost, 68 00:04:26,866 --> 00:04:32,538 weren't depressed or had social support, so they didn't meet those criteria. 69 00:04:32,538 --> 00:04:37,277 But look at this, 23,000 didn't meet their medical eligibility. 70 00:04:37,277 --> 00:04:42,015 Given what we've just talked about, what does that mean? 71 00:04:50,256 --> 00:04:50,990 Did they 72 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:54,594 do something wrong with their inclusionary or their exclusionary criteria? 73 00:04:54,594 --> 00:04:56,763 Yeah. You can't say it's wrong. 74 00:04:56,763 --> 00:05:00,033 I mean, these are some of the best researchers 75 00:05:00,033 --> 00:05:02,201 around who were doing this study. 76 00:05:02,201 --> 00:05:03,269 It's not wrong. 77 00:05:03,269 --> 00:05:05,438 But ultimately, when you step back 78 00:05:05,438 --> 00:05:09,442 and look at it, this is where they had the problem. 79 00:05:09,442 --> 00:05:11,244 This is where it happened. 80 00:05:11,244 --> 00:05:16,649 So, it wasn't that it was wrong, but they had to screen so many people 81 00:05:16,649 --> 00:05:21,354 in order to get, you know, 2,500 people because of these eligibility criteria. 82 00:05:21,788 --> 00:05:25,091 Scientifically, it was the right thing to do, 83 00:05:25,091 --> 00:05:28,594 but it made for a very difficult study. 84 00:05:28,594 --> 00:05:33,299 And to operationalize this a little bit more clearly for you, 85 00:05:33,299 --> 00:05:38,237 what this means is that for every 100 participants that they screened 86 00:05:38,237 --> 00:05:42,342 -- these weren't people that called up and said, "I 87 00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:46,479 want to participate." These are 100 participants that they screened, 88 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:50,583 only 7 were actually enrolled and randomized into the trial. 89 00:05:50,583 --> 00:05:52,652 That's a lot of work. 90 00:05:53,619 --> 00:05:55,588 Another way of thinking about 91 00:05:55,588 --> 00:06:00,093 it, in order to get 1, they had to screen 14. 92 00:06:00,093 --> 00:06:04,964 And of course, they had a lot of sites, and not all 93 00:06:04,964 --> 00:06:08,501 the sites were really able to adequately enroll participants. 94 00:06:08,501 --> 00:06:12,405 And that's something that when you have a multi-site trial 95 00:06:12,405 --> 00:06:15,908 you will find that sites recruit at different rates. 96 00:06:15,908 --> 00:06:20,213 There may be reasons to keep sites that have low recruitment 97 00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:22,448 because they're recruiting, you know, particular 98 00:06:22,682 --> 00:06:26,085 characteristics of the patient population that you're interested in. 99 00:06:26,352 --> 00:06:30,189 But it is a phenomenon that occurs fairly frequently. 100 00:06:30,189 --> 00:06:35,261 So, you know, there's been a lot of talk among the investigators 101 00:06:35,261 --> 00:06:39,699 about why there were these differences, why they have these problems 102 00:06:39,699 --> 00:06:41,334 with recruitment and retention. 103 00:06:41,334 --> 00:06:44,971 And some of them had to do with access. 104 00:06:44,971 --> 00:06:50,243 Some of them had to do with the fact that they were recruiting 105 00:06:50,243 --> 00:06:55,681 at very research-heavy sites, so there was a lot of research going on. 106 00:06:55,681 --> 00:07:00,787 And you have to think about that, is there a lot of stuff 107 00:07:00,787 --> 00:07:05,124 going on in this area where you're going to be recruiting? 108 00:07:05,124 --> 00:07:07,894 They didn't have that quite collaborative teams, 109 00:07:07,894 --> 00:07:11,063 and so that reduced their ability to recruit. 110 00:07:11,063 --> 00:07:15,768 And their burden was high, so these participants had to come in 111 00:07:15,768 --> 00:07:18,538 and participate in a psychosocial intervention, which 112 00:07:18,538 --> 00:07:23,276 always is a little bit more burdensome than taking a pharmacologic pill. 113 00:07:24,644 --> 00:07:27,513 And they had a lot of assessments 114 00:07:27,513 --> 00:07:32,418 and the study went on for three and a half years, right? 115 00:07:32,418 --> 00:07:35,254 So, this was a very burdensome study. 116 00:07:35,254 --> 00:07:40,593 They -- but the real key is here, they had really restrictive eligibility 117 00:07:40,593 --> 00:07:43,863 criteria, as you can see from the exclusion, 118 00:07:43,863 --> 00:07:47,333 the high number of patients that were excluded. 119 00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:51,604 So, let me walk through a couple of overall conclusions. 120 00:07:52,004 --> 00:07:53,239 Know your literature. 121 00:07:53,239 --> 00:07:58,144 Know the history of your literature, know where things sit, be able 122 00:07:58,144 --> 00:07:59,779 to identify contextual factors, 123 00:07:59,779 --> 00:08:03,483 know where your question lies on that research continuum. 124 00:08:03,483 --> 00:08:04,717 That's really critical. 125 00:08:04,717 --> 00:08:10,456 Make sure you're designing the right study for the right time for that literature. 126 00:08:10,456 --> 00:08:13,726 Make sure you have clarity on your question. 127 00:08:13,726 --> 00:08:19,866 And this sounds kind of silly, like, "Of course I have clarity on my questions. 128 00:08:19,866 --> 00:08:24,170 I want to know if this does this." But understanding the complexity 129 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:28,107 of your question really means that you have to dive deep 130 00:08:28,107 --> 00:08:32,745 into some of the issues that we're talking about and more, as well, 131 00:08:32,745 --> 00:08:37,750 to understand what your -- you know, all of the complexities of your question. 132 00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:40,586 Have a really good, very specific targeted understanding 133 00:08:40,586 --> 00:08:43,823 of the patient characteristics that you want to target. 134 00:08:44,390 --> 00:08:48,528 Make sure the participants match the outcomes, your primary outcomes, 135 00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:52,698 make sure it's a good match, it's a feasible match. 136 00:08:52,698 --> 00:08:58,304 And make sure that you're asking the right question at the right time. 137 00:08:58,304 --> 00:09:02,241 Going back to internal versus external validity, figure out 138 00:09:02,241 --> 00:09:07,647 in the context of your question, what's most important; or in other words, 139 00:09:07,647 --> 00:09:13,152 think about what you worry about the most, false negatives or false positives?