THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR
TODAY'S NATIONAL LIBRARY OF
MEDICINE HISTORY TALK.
ANNUAL SERIES OF PROGRAMS DESIGN
TO PROMOTE AWARENESS AND USE OF
NLM AND HISTORICAL COLLECTIONS
FOR RESEARCH, EDUCATION AND
PUBLIC SERVICES IN BIO MEDICINE
AND SOCIAL TALKS AND TO
RECOGNIZE THE DIVERSITY OF
COLLECTIONS WHICH ENCOMPASS A
RANGE OF DIGITAL AND PHYSICAL
FORMATS AND ORIGINAL FROM NEARLY
EVERY PART OF THE GLOBE.
MOREOVER NLM HISTORY TALKS FORUM
DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS WHO VAL
THROUGH THE COLLECTIONS AND USE
THEM TO ADVANCE THE RESEARCH
THEY'RE TEACHING AND LEARNING.
WELCOME EVERYONE.
FOR THOSE ON TWITTER, THANK YOU
FOR FOLLOWING ALONG USING THE
HASH TAG NLM HISTORY TALK AND
USE THE LIVE FEEDBACK BUTTON
UNDER THE VIDEO SCREEN AND THE
QUESTIONS WILL COME TO ME AND
I'LL SHARE.
TODAY I HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF
INTRODUCING PROFESSOR OF DREXEL
UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC
HEALTH IN THE DEPARTMENT OF
COMMUNITY HEALTH AND PREVENTION.
HE'S THE CO-AUTHOR OF DOZENS OF
SCHOLARLY ARTICLE WHICH IS
EXAMINE DEMOGRAPHIC VARIABLE.
THE WORK ORIGINATED ON DEFINING
AND MEASURING SEXUAL
ORIENTATIONS AND SAMPLING SEXUAL
MINORITIES FOR PUBLIC HEALTH
RESEARCH.
HE JOINS US TODAY TO TALK ABOUT
A DIMENSION MUCH HIS RESEARCH
WHICH TOOK HIM TO THE ARCHIVAL
COLLECTIONS OF THE NATIONAL
LIBRARY OF MEDICINE.
THE TIME IS WE'RE HERE, WE'RE
QUEER AND GET USED TO IT AND
STRUGGLES AND STORIES TO BE
HEARD TODAY, AND TOMORROW.
WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR
TALK.
>>THANK YOU, DR. REZ NICK THREW
FOR THE INTRODUCTION.
WHO RECOGNIZES THIS PICTURE?
I HOPE SOMEONE IN SOME ROOM
WATCHING IS RAISING THEIR HAND
BECAUSE I THINK IT'S AN
IMPORTANT PICTURE TAKEN AT AN
IMPORTANT MOMENT.
A HINT IS THAT IT HAPPENED AT AN
AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION
CONFERENCE IN 1971.
I'LL COME BACK TO IT A LITTLE
BIT LATER.
DR. RESNIK MENTIONED MUCH OF MY
WORK CRITICALLY EXAMINES
DEMOGRAPHIC VARIABLES AND I'M
INTERESTED IN HOW KNOWLEDGE IS
CONSTRUCTED AND THE CONSEQUENCES
OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS
WHICH IN SCIENCE WE CALL
RESEARCH METHODS ON WHAT IS
CONSTRUCTED AND ULTIMATELY WHAT
WE KNOW.
WHAT WE KNOW AND HOW WE GET TO
KNOW IT WHICH IS ALMOST ENTIRELY
NON-RANDOM OR VICE VERSA IS OF
INTEREST BECAUSE IT
SIMULTANEOUSLY SUPPORTS AND
THREATENED THE EXISTENCE OF
QUEER PEOPLE.
FOR QUEER FOLK, UNDERSTANDING
THE PROCESSES INVOLVED IN
KNOWLEDGE CONSTRUCTION IS
CONSEQUENTLY ESSENTIAL.
I'VE COME TO UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU
CAN'T TAKE SOMETHING FOR GRANTED
SUCH AS MARRIAGE OR EMPLOYMENT
OR HOUSING OR PARENTAL RIGHTS OR
PUBLISHING OR SIMPLY BEING
REPRESENTED ON A LIBRARY SHELF,
YOU THINK BIT MORE CRITICALLY.
EXPLORING THE ROLE OF LIBRARIES
IN THE KNOWLEDGE CONSTRUCTION
PROCESS IS THE FOCUS OF THIS
TALK.
SO SOME QUICK BACKGROUND ABOUT
ME.
I CAME OUT SOMEWHAT IN HIGH
SCHOOL.
I STARTED COLLEGE IN 1982 AT THE
DAWN OF THE AIDS EPIDEMIC SO I
WAS OUT IN COLLEGE.
I STARTED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
PENNSYLVANIA ORGANIZED THE FIRST
AIDS AWARENESS WEEK AT PROBABLY
ANY UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY
AND IN 1988 I STARTED WORKING AT
THE PROJECT HOPE CENTER FOR
HEALTH AFFAIRS IN WASHINGTON,
D.C. WHERE I BEGAN WORKING ON
NUMEROUS PROJECTS EXAMINING THE
HEALTH OF GAY MEN IN
RELATIONSHIP TO AIDS ON SOME OF
THE FIRST GOVERNMENT-FUNDED AIDS
STUDIES.
ONE OF THESE PROJECTS WITH THE
INTERNATIONAL AIDS SURVEY.
IT LED ME TO UNDERSTAND THE
IMPORTANCE OF DATA IN VISIBILITY
AND HOW THE IMPACT AND HOW THAT
IMPACTS PROGRAMS AND FUNDING
WHICH LED ME TO IN 1989 FIRST
ASKING THE NATIONAL HEALTH
INTERVIEW SURVEY TO COLLECT
SEXUAL ORIENTATION DATA.
I WENT TO THE PEOPLE AND SAID
YOU NEED TO ADD A SEXUAL
ORIENTATION VARIABLE.
NO ONE REALLY LISTENED TO ME OF
COURSE BUT THAT SPURRED ME IN
1990 TO GO ON TO MY DOCTORAL
STUDIES WHERE I WROTE DOWN ON A
PIECE OF PAPER THE LAST THING
YOU'LL SEE ON THE SLIDE, DATA
EQUALS POWER.
I WAS STEALING OF COURSE FROM
SCIENCE EQUALS DATA AND I
PARTICIPATED IN THE LATE '80s
AND YOU CAN GENERALIZE
INFORMATION EQUALS POWER.
I BEGIN EXAMINING SO I BEGAN
EXAMINING HOW RESEARCHERS
HISTORICALLY STUDIED AND
CONSEQUENTLY CONSTRUCTED
KNOWLEDGE ABOUT GAY MEN.
WHICH LED KNOW SPEND A LOT OF
TIME IN LIBRARIES AND AT THE
TIME WHEN THERE WERE USED BOOK
STORES, USED BOOK STORES ALL
OVER BOSTON AND ANY CITY I
VISITED.
IN 1991 I CAME ACROSS ONE OF THE
BOOKS THAT INTRIGUED ME MOST
WHICH WAS THE AUTHOR JENNY JUNE
AND THE BIOGRAPHY OF AN
ANDRODINE.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW GAY
MATERIALS GET IN LIBRARIES.
BY GAY I'M USING THE WORD GAY
STARTED WORKING ON THIS THE GAY
TASK FORCE LIBERATION FOUND IN
1971 USED THE WORD GAY AND TALK
ABOUT GAY MATERIALS.
DAY WE MAY CHANGE IT AND USE THE
WORD MINORITY BUT I'M TALKING
ABOUT ANY INTERSECTS YOU WANT TO
IMAGINE.
HOW THE MATERIALS GET IN
LIBRARIES?
THERE'S VARIOUS BARRIERS TO
GETTING IN THE LIBRARIES.
FIRST THEY HAVE TO GET PRODUCED.
ONE THING I FOCUSSED ON IS
PARTICULARLY WITH EARLIER
WRITERS WHAT'S THE INTERNAL
MOTIVATION THAT MAKES YOU WANT
TO WRITE SOMETHING AND I'LL GIVE
A HINT TO WHAT I THINK SOME OF
THE REASONS WHY MIGHT BE.
IF YOU WRITE SOMETHING HOW GET
PUBLISHED?
EARLY FOLKS GIVING A BOOK
CONTRACT THEN DISTRIBUTION IN
THE EARLY DAYS WAS OFTEN WITH
BOOKS PUBLISH ORDER WRITTEN WAS
DISTRIBUTED PERSON TO PERSON LET
ALONE THROUGH BOOKS OR LIBRARIES
AND WORKING LIBRARIES KNOW THESE
THINGS AREN'T FREE AND IF YOU
HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO
ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THE WORLD
TODAY YOU KNOW THERE'S SOCIAL
AND POLITICAL COST TO ACQUIRE
THE DOCUMENTS AND HOW THEY'RE
CLASSIFIED AND SUBJECT HEADINGS
AND HOW THEY GET LABELLED FOR
SEARCHING.
IS THAT GOES TO WHERE THEY GET
SHELVED AND ALSO ONCE THEY'RE IN
A LIBRARY, HOW ARE THEY
RETAINED?
THEY'RE DE FACED, STOLEN I HAVE
A COUPLE STORIES ABOUT STEALING
I HOPE TO GET TO OR BANNED.
SO JENNIFER TERRY IN HER BOOK
TITLED AN AMERICAN OBSESSION
STATES FOR THE LATE 20th
CENTURIES WRITING IN SEXUALITY
EARTH THAN DESCRIBING IT WAS
DISCOURAGED IN THE UNITED
STATES.
AUTHORS MET WITH CENSORSHIP AND
PUBLIC CRITICISM AND EVEN
PERSECUTION ON OBSCENITY CHARGES
THUS LIMITING WHO WOULD SPEAK.
TODAY I'M GOING TO TOUCH ON SOME
OR ALL OF THE THINGS ON THIS
SLIDE USING EXAMPLES OF THREE
PEOPLE.
TWO OF WHICH HAVE DOCUMENTS THAT
ARE IN THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF
MEDICINE.
THE FIRST WENT BY MANY NAMES
TODAY.
TODAY I'M GOING USE THE USE
WORTHER AND MALE PRONOUNS AND IN
OTHER PRESENTATIONS I'LL USE
FEMALE OR THEY PRONOUNS AND HERE
BECAUSE OF THE DOCUMENTS IN THE
NATIONAL LIBRARY OF MEDICINE,
THE WORTHER IS USED AND USES
MALE PRONOUNS ABOUT HIMSELF.
I'LL TELL THE STORY FROM THAT
PREVIOUS SLIDE USING WORTHER AND
THE DOCUMENT OF THE UNDER WORLD
IN THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF
MEDICINE COLLECTION, ALAN
BERNSTEIN AND HIS DOCUMENT IN
THE COLLECTION TITLED MILLIONS
OF QUEERS ARE HOMO AMERICA.
ONE OF MY FAVORITE TITLED BOOKS
OR MANUSCRIPTS.
BUT I'M ADDING BARBARA GIDDENS
FOR THE AMERICAN LIBRARY
ASSOCIATION TASK FORCE ON GAY
LIBERATION AND THE STUFF THAT
SHE WROTE AND WORKED ON.
FIRST, I WANT TO QUICKLY GIVE AN
EXAMPLE OF HOW POWERFUL A SINGLE
BOOK IN A LIBRARY CAN BE.
WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO HAVE A
BOOK IN A LIBRARY AND WHEN THEY
PUBLISHED SEXUAL INVERSION IN
GERM ANYONE 1896 IN ENGLISH IN
1897 WITH LATER ADDITIONS.
SEXUAL INVERSION TODAY I'LL
EQUATE WITH HOMO SEXUALITY IS
OFTEN EQUATED WITH IT.
ELL
ELLISS HAD TO FIGHT TO GET THE
BOOK PUBLISHED AND WORKED WITH
SIMON WHO SAID WAS A QUASATIVE
HOMOSEXUAL.
IT WAS FIRST PUBLISHED IN
GERMANY AND THE BOOK WAS
SUPPRESSED BY BRITISH
AUTHORITIES WHO EVEN CHARGED THE
BOOK SELLER FOR SELLING IT AND
THE BOOK SELLER JUST PLED GUILTY
RATHER THAN FIGHT THE CHARGES.
SIMONS' FAMILY TRIED TO SUPPRESS
THE BOOK MOSTLY TO PROTECT
THEMSELVES.
SIMOOONS -- BUT THE BOOK GOT
PUBLISHED AND GOING BACK TO THE
SAMPLE, WERTHER.
THEY AVAILED THEMSELVES TO THE
NEW YORK ACADEMY OF MEDICINE IN
THE 1890s.
SOME YEARS LATER I READ THE BOOK
SEXUAL INVERSION AND UNTIL 30
YEARS AGO AMERICAN AND BRITISH
PUBLIC OPINION WOULD NOT
TOLERATE THE FACTS EVEN FOR
CIRCULATION AMONG THE MEDICAL
PROFESSION.
AND THE SEXUAL INVERSION THE
EARLIEST PUBLIC BOOK IN THE
ENGLISH LANGUAGE WAS PROPERLY
SUPPRESSED BY THE BRITISH
GOVERNMENT.
WERTHER KNEW OF THE TROUBLES OF
THE PUBLICATION AND BERNSTEIN
CITES ELLIS.
TODAY THESE ARE THE STANDARDS,
IN THE 1930s, ELLIS' AND EVING
AND GETTENS STATES IN A GREAT
REPORTING WITH ERIC MARCUS THE
MAKING GAY HISTORY PODCAST AND
SHE STATES THE CLOSEST I GOT TO
SOME SENSE OF GAY PEOPLE WITH
PERSONALITIES AND REAL LIVES WAS
IN ELLIS' BOOK.
IT WAS FULL OF GOOD STUFF
BECAUSE YOU COULD FIND SOMETHING
TO IDENTIFY WITH MOST OF EAST
ELLIS WROTE ABOUT EVEN IF THEY
SOUNDED PECULIAR.
LET ME DISCUSS GETTING GAY
MATERIALS IN THE LIBRARIES
VERSUS STARTING WITH WERTHER.
I CAME TO WERTHER AS I SAID
BECAUSE OF THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF
THE ANDROGYNE.
I LOOKED FOR THIS SECOND BOOK IN
THE SERIES.
THE FIRST IS AUTOBIO GRAPHY AND
THE SECOND WAS FEMALE
IMPERSONATORS AND A THOUGHT THE
RESULTS MUST BE IN THE THIRD
BOOK THEY TALKED ABOUT THAT
WERTHER TALKS ABOUT THE RIDDLE
OF THE UNDER WORLD WHERE WERTHER
DESCRIBES VARIOUS THINGS I
THOUGHT MIGHT ALSO INCLUDE THIS.
ALONG THE WAY I ENCOUNTERED
SOURCES STATING IT WAS NEVER
PUBLISHED ONLY BECAUSE THEY
NEVER FOUND A COPY.
IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED OR
HAS TO BE A COPY SOMEWHERE.
I WOULDN'T FIND A COPY BUT IT
WAS HARD TO BELIEVE IT WASN'T
AND YOU CAN SEE IN WERTHER'S
SECOND BOOK THEY EVEN SPECIFY
THE WORD LENGTH AND ILLUSTRATION
IN THE BOOK.
IN OTHER PLACES HE STATES IT'S
BEEN ELABORATED WITH THE FEMALE
IMPERSONATORS AND HOW THEY'RE
TALKING THEIR FOURTH BOOK I
IMAGINE MAYBE A HOUSE FIRE
HAPPENED ONE DAY WHILE SEARCHING
THE INTERNET FINDING INFORMATION
ABOUT VICTOR ROBINSON AND FOUND
NATIONAL ARCHIVES IN THE
NATIONAL LIBRARY OF MEDICINE AND
I DON'T KNOW WHY AND I THOUGHT
LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN FIND
ONLINE ABOUT VICTOR ROBINSON'S
ARCHIVES AND STARTED LOOKING
THROUGH THE COLLECTION.
BETWEEN TWO BOOKS -- BETWEEN THE
IN-BOX FIVE AGAIN ONE BOOK AND
THE HISTORY OF IDEATION MEDICINE
WAS THE RIDDLE OF THE UNDER
WORLD.
I THOUGHT THIS COULDN'T BE
HOWEVER, SO I REQUESTED IT.
IT WAS UPON REQUEST I FOUND
CHAPTERS.
NOT THE WHOLE BOOK IN THE
COLLECTION AND IT INCLUDED A
BOOK CONTRACT BETWEEN WERTHER
AND ROBINSON.
IT HAD BEEN LYING LARGELY
UNNOTICED NOT ENTIRELY BUT
LARGELY UNNOTICED IN THE
COLLECTION OF THE NATIONAL
LIBRARY OF MEDICINE.
THAT'S LOTS OF DOCUMENTATION
THAT GIVES US EVIDENCE WHY IT
MAY NOT AND WE'LL DISCUSS THE
DIFFICULTIES WITH PUBLISHING AND
USE THESE PEOPLE BELL, HERZOG
AND ROBINSON AND COMSTOCK.
WHY DON'T KNOW WHY THE RIDDLE OF
THE UNDER WORLD WASN'T PUBLISHED
WE KNOW ABOUT THE STRUGGLES AND
WERTHER STATES I MYSELF HAD TO
BEND THE KNEE FOR 18 YEARS TO
MEDICAL PUBLISHERS BECAUSE IT
WAS FED IN THE PRINTING PRESS.
18 YEARS.
WERTHER FURTHER STATES I WORKED
SEVEN HOURS A DAY -- THIS IS FOR
BELL, I WORKED SEVEN DAYS A WEEK
FOR A LEGAL JOURNAL BECAUSE
UNDER THAT NAME I CALLED UPON
ITS EDITOR TO PERSUADE HIM TO
PUBLISH MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY.
HE WENT TO BELL AND DIDN'T GET
IT PUBLISHED BUT GOT A JOB
WORKING WITH WELL -- TO BELL
AND BELL DIDN'T PUBLISH AND THIS
PICTURE WAS TAKEN BY SCHUFELDT
AND HE LIKED TO BE PHOTOGRAPH AS
STATUE AND IN THE BOOK THE PHOTO
CREDIT IS SCHUFELDT AND HE
WRITES ABOUT MEETING WERTHER AND
THIS IS THE TITLE, THE MEDICAL
AND LEGAL CONSIDERATION OF
PERVERTS AND INVERTS.
ON THE ARTICLE IN PERVERTS AND
INVERTS SCHUFELDT THOUGHT
WERTHER HAD COMMITTED SUICIDE
BECAUSE THE PERSON CAME TO HIM
AS EARL AND HE'S WHAT HE WROTE.
SO SCHUFELD SAYS WHEN HE
APPROACHED HIM HE SAID IT HAD
BEEN . -- POIGNANTLY DECLINED TO
THE SALE OF THE WORK OF THAT
CHARACTER.
THAT IS THE DANGER ARISING FROM
WHAT THE LAW MIGHT THINK OF IT
AND THE ACTION THE COURTS MIGHT
TAKE.
SO IN 1905 SCHUFELD SAYING THIS
IS DANGEROUS, ETCETERA.
HERZOG WHO IS THE PERSON THAT
EVENTUALLY PUBLISHED IT, WHEN
THEY DID PUBLISH IT TALKS ABOUT
THE DIFFICULTY THAT WERTHER HAD
IB NUMEROUS PLACES AND AT THE
INTRODUCTION SAYS I OFFER NO
APOLOGY FOR BRINGING AND SHOWING
HOW ENTHUSIASTIC THEY WERE ABOUT
OFFERING IT AND OFFERED NO
APOLOGY FOR BRINGING THE
AUTOBIOGRAPHY FOR THOSE TO WHOM
THE SALE IS RESTRICT AND
PUBLISHED THE SECOND BOOK AND
SAID THEY'RE DOING THAT OME
BECAUSE 10 PUBLICER --
PUBLISHERS TURNED IT DOWN FOR
PUBLICATION.
ROBINSON IN THE CONTRACT BETWEEN
WERTHER AND ROBINSON, WHICH I
THINK WERTHER PROBABLY WROTE.
SO WERTHER WROTE THE UNDER WORLD
AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND GIVES THE
CONTRACT TO ROBINSON AND THE
CONTRACT SAYS THE RIDDLE OF THE
UNDER WORLD IS TO BE PUBLISHED
WITHOUT THE OMISSION OF CHANGE
OF WORD OR MARK OF PUNCTUATION
OR CAPITALIZATION.
THAT'S WHY I THINK IT WAS
WRITTEN BY WERTHER.
IT'S SO STRICT.
ACCEPTING ANYTHING DR. ROBINSON
WOULD AT MITT SOLELY ON THE
GROUNDS THAT IT WOULD CONFLICT
WITH THE LAW AGAINST OBSCENE
PUBLICATION.
THEY'RE THEY'RE SAYING I MAY NOT
BE PUBLISHED BECAUSE IT COULD BE
OBSCENE AND THERE WAS AN
INTERACTION WITH ANTHONY
COMSTOCK AND HOPEFULLY EVERYONE
KNOWS WHO HE IS AND IF NOT
GOOGLE AND HE'S STILL IN THE
NEWS TODAY.
COMSTOCK CREDITED HIMSELF WITH
DRIVING 15 PEOPLE TO SUICIDE
BECAUSE OF HIS PROSECUTIONS.
WERTHER STATES IN 1900 AS SOON
AS I HAVE THIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY
READY FOR PUBLICATION I
SUBMITTED IT TO MR. COMSTOCK TO
BE CIRCULATE AND HE WAS AN AN
INSPECTOR WITH PROSECUTING POWER
FOR SHIPPING.
COMSTOCK SAID I'LL SKIP SOME OF
WHAT HE SAYS BUT I'LL PUT ON THE
SCREEN WHEN WERTHER WALKS OUT
ROOST HE WRITES WHAT COMSTOCK
SAYS SAYING THE INVERTS ARE NOT
FIT TO WORK WITH THE REST OF
MANKIND.
THEY OUGHT TO HAVE BRAND ON
THEIR FOREHEADS UNCLEAN AND AS
THE LEPERS OF OLD UNCLEAN AS
THEY GO ABOUT AND INSTEAD OF THE
LAW MAKING 20 YEARS IMPRISONMENT
THEY OUGHT TO BE IMPRISONMENT
FOR LIFE AND THEY ARE ASSAULTED
AND BLACKMAILED?
THEY DESERVE TO BE.
YOU CAN SEE AND IN THE DOCUMENT
IN THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF
MEDICINE QUESTION THE RIDDLE OF
THE UNDER WORLD THE UNPUBLISHED
CHAPTERS.
WERTHER HAS THIS I THOUGHT THIS
WAS FUN DESPITE HAVING INTERACTS
WITH PEOPLE OR PERHAPS BECAUSE
OF INTERACTIONS SAYING IF AFTER
MY DEATH OR DURING MY LIFE TIME
I CANNOT EXPECT ATTENTION FROM
THE PUBLIC IF I ATTRACTED
SYMPATHETIC READERS IT WOULD BE
GOOD A GOOD JOKE FOR THEM TO PUT
A FIX TO THE FACADE OF THE
POLICE HEADQUARTERS.
THIS IS THE HEADQUARTERS.
IT STILL EXISTS.
IF ANYONE WANTS I WOULD LOVE TO
GO PUT A PLAQUE ON THERE.
IT'S NO LONGER A POLICE
HEADQUARTER IT'S AN ASSOCIATION
AND THERE'S CONDOS FOR SALE
RIGHT NOW FOR $7.5 MILLION.
WERTHER HAD A LOT OF
DIFFICULTIES GETTING WHAT THEY
DID PUBLISH, PUBLISHED.
ALAN BERNSTEIN WROTE IN
DOCUMENTS I FOUND LATER BUT THE
DOCUMENT IN AND FOCUSSING FOR A
LITTLE WHILE ON THE DOCUMENT IN
THE QUESTION OF THE NATIONAL
LIBRARY OF MEDICINE, MILLIONS IT
WAS TITLED MILLIONS OF QUEERS
ARE HOMO AMERICA.
AND BERNSTEIN STATES HE SENT THE
MILLIONS MANUSCRIPT TO THE ARMY
MEDICAL LIBRARY.
AS THE PRECURSOR TO THE NATIONAL
LIBRARY OF MEDICINE IN THE
SPRING OF 1941 TWO LETTERS ON
MAY 26, 1943, HE TALKED ABOUT
SENDING IT IN 1941.
IN A LETTER TO A FAN, HE
ACTUALLY HAD A FAN WHO READ IT
IN THE LIBRARY HE SAID FANS TO
HIM IN THE SPRING OF 1941 WHICH
MEANS IT OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN IN
THE COLLECTION BECAUSE THE FAN
WROTE TO HIM.
FAN HE SAID, LEARNED OF THIS
DOCUMENT FROM MILLIONS OF QUEERS
IN THE NATIONAL LIBRARY
COLLECTION AND LEARNED OF IT
THROUGH "CONGENIAL ACQUAINTANCES
WORKING IN THE ARMY MEDICAL
LIBRARY."
CONGENIAL ACQUAINTANCES WORKING
IN THE ARMY MEDICAL LIBRARY.
IT REFERS TO AN INFORMAL MEDICAL
LIBRARIAN THING GOING ON WHICH
OFTEN KEPT SECRET BIBLIOGRAPHIES
OF QUEER MATERIALS AND MY
SUSPICION IS THE MANUSCRIPT WAS
STOLEN.
IT WAS ALSO BERNSTEIN'S
SUSPICION HE SAID IN 1941 WAS
STOLEN AND WROTE TO A FRIEND
SAYING THE ONE COPY I GAVE TO
THE THEN ARMY MEDICAL LIBRARY
VANISHED VIA INTERESTED READER
AND PUTS INTERESTED READER IN
QUOTES.
AND IN IN A LETTER TO THE
MEDICAL LIBRARY ASKED FOR A
REFERENCE NUMBER TO THE
MANUSCRIPT TO TRY TO GET IT INTO
ARMY COURSES.
HE WANTED TO GET INTO CERTAIN
COURSES AND SAYING LOOK I WROTE
THIS GREAT DOCUMENT.
HE NEED THE REFERENCE NUMBER TO
GIVE TO HIS SUPERIORS WHICH TO
ME IS A WHOLE ANOTHER STORY IS
HE WAS USING HIS ADDRESS IN THE
ARMY WHILE DOING THIS.
THE ARMY RESPONDED THEY DIDN'T
HAVE IT.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT WENT.
THEY SAID WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE A
COPY.
SO HE SENT A COPY AND AFTER BACK
AND FORTH HE GOT THIS LETTER
FROM THE ARMY MEDICAL LIBRARY.
I'LL READ A LITTLE BIT OF THIS.
IN 1944 SAID I'M NATURALLY
DISTURBED TO LEARN YOU NOT ONLY
SENT A PREVIOUS COPY TO THE
LIBRARY BUT RECEIVED AN
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT ON OUR POST CARD
FORM.
IN VIEW OF THE FACT THE ITEM
ESCAPED MY ATTENTION I EXPECT TO
INVESTIGATE THE MISAPPROPRIATION
I'M ABLE AND CAN ONLY ONLY
VENTURE A GUEST AND THE
MANUSCRIPT STRIKES ME AS THE
SORT OF THING WE SHOULD FIND A
PLACE FOR IN THE COLLECTION
REGARDLESS OF THE USE AND IN THE
FUTURE SOMEONE LIKE ME MAY FIND
FUTURE USE.
THAT'S THE GREAT THING ABOUT
ARCHIVES.
WHAT STRIKES ME MOST WITH THE
DOCUMENT IS ALLEN'S USE OF HIS
REAL NAME WHICH WAS UNHEARD OF
AT THE TIME.
WHILE HE USED PSEUDONYMS
ELSEWHERE HE DIDN'T WRITING
MILLIONS OF QUEERS ARE HOMO
AMERICA TO THE MEDICAL LIBRARY
FROM THIS ADDRESS IN THE ARMY.
THAT TAKES SOME NERVE.
YOU CAN LEARN ABOUT ALLEN
BERNSTEIN AND BUT IT TOOK ME
FOUR YEARS TO FIND OUT THERE WAS
SOMEONE NAMED ALLEN BERNSTEIN
WHO HAD WRITTEN A BUNCH OF OTHER
THINGS AND I FOUND THE TITLE
MILLIONS OF QUEERS ARE HOMO
AMERICA IN A BOOK THE SURGEON
GENERALS PUT OUT EVERY YEAR IN
1945 THEY PUT OUT THE
ACQUISITIONS FOR '44 AND IT'S
LISTED THERE.
I SAW THE TITLE AND THOUGHT IT
HAD TO BE SOMETHING TERRIBLE
ABOUT GAY PEOPLE.
IT TURNED OUT TO BE THIS AND
POSITIVE.
THE DOCUMENT IS ONE OF THE
EARLIEST KNOWN DEFENSES OF HOMO
SEXUALITY IN ENGLISH WITH AN
EARLIER SHORTER DEFENSE, HE
WROTE, I FOUND ONCE I CONTACTED
HIS FAMILY THEY HAD OTHER
MATERIALS.
ANOTHER HE TRIED TO PUBLISH
ENTITLED A PERVERT FIGHTS BACK.
AND HE WROTE AND AT AGE '95 IN
2008 IT INCLUDED ORGANIZING
ACTIVITIES CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN
AN EARLY NUMBER OF WHEN GAYS
WERE NOT ALLOWED TO DONATE AND
EVEN SAME-SEX MARRIAGE AFTER.
AND HE WAS LIKE THE FOREST GUMP
AND YOU CAN WRITE ABOUT HIS
FIGHT TO HAVE HIS DISHONORABLE
DISCHARGE MADE HONORABLE.
TO MOVE ON TO MY LAST EXAMPLE,
BARBARA GITENS I HOPE SOME
RECOGNIZE THE PICTURE WHEN I PUT
IT UP EARLIER.
IT WAS TAKEN BY HER PARTNER.
THE WOMAN ON THE LEFT SHE'S
KISSING IS ISABEL IN JUNE 1971.
THIS IS A 1971 CONFERENCE BUT
THEY HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL BOOTH.
THE BOOTH WAS RUN BY THE
AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION'S
SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY
ROUNDTABLES TASK FORCE ON GAY
LIBERATION.
TASK FORCE ON GAY LIBERATION.
I LOVE THAT.
LATER KNOWN AS THE GAY AND
LESBIAN TASK FORCE WHICH IS NOW
KNOWN AS THE RAINBOW ROUNDTABLE.
THE TASK FORCE WAS CREATED IN
1970 BY JANET COOPER ISRAEL
FISHMAN AND THE FIRST TIME GAY
PEOPLE IN ANY PROFESSIONAL
ORGANIZATION HAD COME TOGETHER
TO ADVANCE THE PROFESSIONAL AND
THEY WERE EAGER TO CHANGE GAY
ALL RIGHT AND GAY PEOPLE'S LIVED
AND OPEN INFLUENCE LIBRARY
HOLDINGS AND THAT'S A QUOTE FROM
AN OPENLY INFLUENCE LIBRARY
HOLDINGS.
I INCLUDE THE PICTURE BECAUSE TO
ME IT REPRESENTS THE BEFORE AND
AFTER MOMENT FOR GAY AND LESBIAN
CIVIL RIGHTS I HOPE OTHERS START
TO THINK OF IN THAT WAY.
AND MORE SPECIFICALLY BEFORE AND
AFTER FOR GAY LITERATURE AND
FROM AN IMPACT ON LITERATURE
THAT WAS ABOUT TO BE PRODUCED TO
HOW THIS LITERATURE WOULD BE
EXPERIENCED BY FOLLOWING
GENERATIONS IN BOOK STORES AND
LIBRARIES.
SEVERAL DAYS AGO I SPOKE WITH
JOHN CUNNINGHAM WHO I HOPE IS ON
AND LISTENING.
HE WAS A CLOSE FRIEND OF
BARBARA'S AND KAY'S AND HE
HIMSELF HAS DONE AMAZING THINGS
WHERE ELSE WITH THE ALA IN THE
1970s AND '80s.
HE SAID I'LL TELL YOU WHY THIS
IS IMPORTANT.
BARBARA HAD READ ABOUT THE TASK
FORCE SOON AFTER IT WAS CREATED,
LIKE MONTHS AFTER IT WAS CREATED
IN 1970 AND IT CLICKED FOR HER.
A LIGHT BULK WENT ON BECAUSE SHE
KNEW THEY COULD ACCOMPLISH SO
MUCH BASED ON HER EXPERIENCE AS
A YOUTH AND IN COLLEGE LOOKING
FOR BOOKS IN LIBRARIES SUCH AS
THE EXAMPLE I GAVE WITH HER
EXPERIENCE WITH ELLIS I POINTED
OUT.
SHE KNEW AS A NON-LIBRARIAN SHE
DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
LOSING HER JOB OR CAREER WHICH
I'LL COME BACK TO.
SHE AND KAY, A PARTNER CAME UP
WITH THE IDEA FOR BOOTH TO GET
PUBLICITY AND BARBARA SAID ABOUT
THE HOMOSEXUAL STRATEGY AND
KISSING BOOTH AT A LIBRARIAN
CONFERENCE?
A GAY KISSING BOOTH?
WHAT ON EARTH ARE THOSE PEOPLE
UP TO?
THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT SHE WAS
HEARING FROM PEOPLE WHO PASSED
BY.
THE TASK FORCE ON GAY LIBERATION
WAS MUCH MORE THAN A KISSING
BOOTH.
I ENCOURAGE YOU TO LISTEN TO THE
PODCAST ON MAKING GAY HISTORY
AND LOOKING THEM UP.
BARBARA COLLECTED A LOT OF THIS
STUFF AND IT'S EASY TO FIND
ONLINE.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE TASK FORCE
ADDRESSED ALL THE CONCERNS THAT
ARE INCLUDED ON THE SLIDE.
THE SLIDE WHICH I TITLED HOW DO
GAY MATERIALS GET IN LIBRARIES.
THEY DIDN'T ADDRESS ALL THE
CONCERNS IN THE PAMPHLET YOU SEE
HERE WHICH I STOLE -- YOU'LL SEE
ON THE BOTTOM IT SAYS HOW TO GET
GAY MATERIALS INTO LIBRARIES I
STOLE THAT TITLE FROM THEM.
THEY ADDRESSED ALL OF THEM OVER
THE FIRST DECADE AND FOR EXAMPLE
INFLUENCED WHAT WAS PRODUCED.
BARBARA BECAME AN INFORMAL MATCH
MAKER BETWEEN PUBLISHERS AND
AUTHORS AND ENCOURAGED A GENRE
AND SIMULTANEOUSLY REDEFINED IT.
YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT
AWARDS DO AND THE SYMBOLISM OF
THEM.
IT'S LEGITIMACY AND REDEFINING
WHAT IT MEANT.
WHEN MATERIALS WEREN'T AVAILABLE
THEY CREATED THEM THEMSELVES AND
A PRIMER CALLED FUN WITH OUR GAY
FRIENDS AND DICK AND JANE AND
PLAYMATES MET SAME-SEX COUPLES
AS PART OF THE NATURAL WORLD
AROUND THEM AND JOHN CAN TELL
YOU OTHER PROGRAMS THEY
PRODUCED.
THE TASK FORCE INFLUENCE THE
DISTRIBUTION AND ACQUISITION BY
SUPPORTING THE CREATION AND
GROWTH OF GAY AND LESBIAN
SPECIFIC ARCHIVES AN CREATING
BIBL -- BIBLIOGRAPHIES TO FIND
BOOKS AND BY 1980 THERE WERE 263
AND ADVISED OTHER ORGANIZATIONS
WITH PARENTS OF GAYS AND ADVISED
ORGANIZATIONS AND LAWMAKERS.
THEY ALSO PRODUCED PAMPHLETS
LIKE THE ONE SHOWN HERE AND THE
TASK FORCE INFLUENCED
CLASSIFICATION AND SHELVING.
I WOULD LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME SO I'LL
SKIP SOME OF THIS BUT THEY WERE
CONCERNED WITH HOW MATERIALS
WERE CLASSIFIED.
IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE AND GOT
TIRED OF READING ABOUT HERSELF
AS SEXUAL PERVERSION AND
WONDERING AND LEARNING.
AND AMELIA CRAWFORD WRITES
DESCRIPTION AND WHEN BOOKS ARE
IN A LIBRARY ARE CLASSIFIED AND
SUBJECT DESCRIPTION IS VALUABLE
AND POLITICAL.
SUBJECT HEADINGS CANNY ENFORCE
OR SUBVERT HIERARCHIES OF SOCIAL
DOMINATION.
TO CONFRONT THESE CONCERNS THE
ORGANIZATION HAD MANY TALKS.
I'LL MENTION ONE, STEVE WOLF IN
1971 AT THE '71 CONFERENCE WHERE
THEY WERE DOING PRESENTING GIVE
A TALK AND IN THAT TALK STATES
THAT THE CURRENT LIBRARY
CLASSIFICATION SUBJECT FITTING
SYSTEMS DO NOT REEFFECT THE
CHANGE IN SOCIAL ATTITUDES.
15 MILLION GAY MEN AND WOMEN
REFUSED TO BE CALLED SEXUAL
ABERRATION, ETCETERA.
THEN THAT CHANGED AND SAID IT
SHOULD BE GAY.
THEY ALSO WORKED WITH PLACES
SAYING THE BOOK SHOULDN'T BE
HIDDEN BUT SHOULD BE EQUALLY
AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO GET ON
THE SHELVES.
THEY GAVE A TALK ABOUT SERVING
THE FEARFUL READER AND IF A
READER IS FEARFUL, HOW DO YOU
DEAL WITH THAT AND THIS I WOULD
HAVE LOVED TO HAVE SEEN.
.
IN 1976 THEY DID A SKIT ENTITLED
NOW YOU SEE IT, NOW YOU DON'T
ABOUT BOOKS GETTING STOLEN FROM
LIBRARIES USUALLY BY FRIENDS,
GAY PEOPLE WHEN WANTED TO HAVE
SOMETHING TO TAKE HOME AND READ
IT AT HOME BUT WERE AFRAID TO
READ IT IN THE LIBRARY OR
SOMETHING.
ONCE AGAIN THE FORMATION OF THE
TASK FORCE ON GAY LIBERATION'S
ROOTS CAN BE SEEN TODAY IN SUCH
THINGS AS CRITICAL CATALOGING.
I WANT TO THANK MY NEIGHBOR WHO
TURNED ME TON CRITICAL
CATALOGING.
THIS IS ALL THE ROOTS OF THIS
STUFF AND I LOVE COMMUNITY
ACTIVITY.
LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE PRODUCED A
HOMOSAURUS.
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE TOO MUCH
TIME BUT THERE'S IMPORTANT
THERE'S A BOOK AWARD.
THIS IS A PICTURE OF ISABELLA
MILLER WHO WON THE FIRST BOOK
AWARD AND ISABEL WAS TYPICAL OF
WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE TIME
AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENED OVER 10
YEARS FROM THIS AWARD TO THE
NEXT.
IT WAS HER REAL NAME, HER BIRTH
NAME.
IT WAS THE NAME SHE USED FOR HER
OTHER BOOKS THAT WERE NON-QUEER
RELATED WERE ALMA ROOTSONG BORN
IN 1924 AND WENT TO A LIBRARY IN
MICHIGAN AND IT INSPIRED HER.
SHE ENDED UP GOING INTO WORLD
WAR II AND GOT MARRIED AND HAD
FOUR CHILDREN AND WROTE SEVERAL
NOVELS AND THEN MET A WOMAN AT
CHURCH AND ENDED UP LEAVING HER
HUSBAND AND MOVING TO GREENWICH
VILLAGE AND WROTE A PLACE FOR US
WHICH WAS USING THE WORD LESBIAN
AND HER MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME.
I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS BUT
MICHAEL McCONNELL ANDOCK -- AND
JACK BAKER AND McCONNELL GOT
FIRED FROM HIS JOB BECAUSE HE
AND HIS PARTNER APPLIED FOR A
MARRIAGE LICENSE.
HIS EMPLOYER FOUND OUT HE WAS
WORKING AS A LIBRARIAN AND GOT
FIRED AND FOUGHT IT AND WON IT
AND THE FIRST CASE WHERE SOMEONE
SUES TO GET THEIR JOB BACK WHEN
THEY WERE FIRED BECAUSE THEY'RE
GAY AND GOT MARRIED AND
CONSIDERED THE FIRST LEGALLY
MARRIED COUPLE IN 1971 AND EVEN
THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION
DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM IN FIGHTING
HIS DISMISSAL FROM BEING FIRED.
I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LOOK THAT
UP AND READ THAT STORY.
IT'S HARD TO TALK ABOUT WERTHER,
DERBSTEIN OR THE TASK FORCE FOR
GAY LIBERATION WITHOUT
RECOGNIZING WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
COMSTOCK'S CONVERSATION I WAS
HESITANT TO PUT ON THE SCREEN
BECAUSE IT'S SO HURTFUL WHEN YOU
READ IT, COMSTOCK'S CONVERSATION
WITH WERTHER STILL SEEMS
FAMILIAR.
HERE'S NEWSPAPER HEADLINES.
YOU CAN PUT AND -- THERE WERE
CONCERNS OVER VIOLATION AND THEY
WERE TALK ABOUT TRANS GENDER
HISTORY BUT THEIR CONCERN WAS
THE INDIVIDUAL SPEAKING
IDENTIFIED AS TWO SPIRIT.
I DON'T WANT TO BE TOO HEAVY AND
THE BAN THE BOOK, THIS BOOK IS
GAY.
I WOULD PROBABLY BAN THAT TOO.
A RECENT REPORT FOUND BOOK BANS
REACHED A HIGH IN 2002 WITH MORE
THAN 200 CHALLENGES.
THE DIRECTOR OF THE ALAs OFFICE
FOR INTERNATIONAL FREEDOM SAID
THE LAST TWO YEARS HAVE BEEN
EXHAUSTING, FRIGHTENING AND
OUTRAGE ENDUCING WITH OVER 2500
BOOKS OBJECTED TO.NDUCING WITH
BOOKS OBJECTED TO.INDUCING WITH
BOOKS OBJECTED TO.
WE ALL KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON
RIGHT NOW WITH LIBRARIES AND
BOOKS BUT WANTED TO TAKE A
MOMENT.
I KNOW I'VE BEEN SPEAKING
QUICKLY BUT I WANTED TO TAKE A
MOMENT TO PUT THE TITLES UP ON
THE SCREEN OF THE BOOKS THAT
I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AND LET
YOU THINK ABOUT THEM.
WERTHER WAS TRYING TO PUBLISH AN
AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A TRANSGENDER
PERSON WRITE BOOK CALLED THE
FEMALE IMPERSONATOR MANY PEOPLE
TODAY MAY THINK OF DRAG QUEEN
AND WHERE IEDAL OF THE UNDER
WORLD AND MILLIONS OF QUEERS ARE
HOMO AMERICA.
AND PRODUCING FUN WITH OUR GAY
FRIENDS AND WHAT SEEMS MORE
RELEVANT THAN EVER, HOW TO GET
GAY MATERIALS INTO LIBRARIES
WHEN GAY MATERIALS ARE BEING
TAKEN OUT OF LIBRARIES.
SO AS I SAID, TWO OF THESE
DOCUMENTS ARE IN THE COLLECTION
AT THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF
MEDICINE.
THANKFULLY THEY EXIST THERE AND
THANKFULLY THEY'VE BEEN
PRESERVED.
TODAY, I WANTED TO END ON A NOTE
OF OPTIMISM BEFORE ONE FINAL
THOUGHT.
HERE'S A VALEDICTORIAN IN SIOUX
CITY IN IOWA WHERE LAWS HAVE
BEEN PASSED AND SIOUX CITY CLASS
OF 1990 -- CLASS OF 2023 ENDING
HIS COMMENCEMENT SPEECH LESS
THAN TWO WEEKS.
>>TODAY I'D LIKE TO HAVE A
STORY OF CLASS OF 2023.
A SHARED LOVE OF OUR CLASS.
A STORY OF HOW WE MADE DREAMS
OUR OWN REALITY AND AN ENCOURAGE
EVERYONE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR
DREAMS.
TO FIGHT FOR THE WORLD YOU WANT
TO SEE.
LIFE IS WHAT WE MAKE IT AND
WE'RE GOING TO EXCEL.
SO, IN FINAL WORDS, I WOULD LIKE
TO THROW THE FIRST BRICK INTO
OUR FUTURE, BREAK THE GLASS
CEILING AND STAND UP FOR THE
RIGHTS OF OTHERS.
I'VE BEEN MEANING TO DO THIS ALL
DAY.
SUPPORT TRANS RIGHTS AND DON'T
LET THEM TAKE AWAY OUR LOVE.
DON'T LET THEM BAN THE BOOKS OF
THE PEOPLE WE LOVE.
AND DON'T STOP FIGHTING FOR WE
ARE THE CLASS OF 2023 AND NO
MATTER WHAT THEY SAY, WHAT THEY
DO, THEY CANNOT STOP US.
THEY CAN BAN THIS BOOK BUT THEY
CANNOT TAKE IT AWAY FROM US.
I LOVE YOU ALL.
SO I WAS TRYING TO NOT LISTEN TO
IT BECAUSE IT WOULD PROBABLY GET
ME CHOKED UP.
I KNOW I SHOULD HAVE GIVEN A
TRIGGER WARNING BEFORE THE
PRESENTATION.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PEOPLE,
GETTENS, WERTHER, BERNSTEIN I
DIDN'T TALK ABOUT MOST OF IT BUT
I WANTED TO END WITH THIS.
FINALLY THROUGH ALL MY RESEARCH,
I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED WHY ARE GAY
MATERIALS EVER PRODUCED AND
AVAILABLE FOR DISTRIBUTION FROM
PERSON TO PERSON IN BOOK STORES
OR LIBRARIES IN ANY WAY?
THAT IS WHAT MOTIVATED PEOPLE
LIKE WERTHER, BERNSTEIN AND
GITENS TO WORK TIRELESSLY
AGAINST ALL ODDS.
THERE'S A CONGRESS OF LIBRARY
INTERVIEW WITH HIM TALKING ABOUT
BEING GAY IN WORLD WAR II.
I WAS RE-LISTENING TO THAT TWO
DAYS AGO.
BERNSTEIN ANSWERED IT FOR ME
WHEN IN THE RECORDING WITH THE
CHUCKLE, STUPID PERSISTENCE.
I JUST WANT TO THANK JOHN
CUNNINGHAM AND DILLON DANGER AND
MY FRIENDS AT THE NEW YORK CITY
LGBTQ COMMUNITY CENTER AND
NATIONAL HISTORY ARCHIVES FOR
SUPPORTING ME AND HELPING ME
WITH THIS.
THANK YOU.
TIME FOR QUESTIONS IF THERE ARE
ANY.
>>DR. SELL, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
FANTASTIC TALK.
WE APPRECIATE YOU PREPARING IT
AND ALL OF OUR CONVERSATIONS
BEFORE HAND.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS THAT
HAVE COME IN AND I'LL REMIND
THOSE WATCHING PLEASE USE THE
SEND LIVE FEEDBACK BUTTON FOR
QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE FOR
DR. SELL AND I'LL SHARE THOSE
WITH HIM.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR
EXPERIENCES AND RESEARCH IN THIS
WONDERFUL TALK.
IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OF
BACKLASH WHEN THE ARMY MEDICAL
LIBRARY INCLUDED MILLIONS OF
QUEERS ON ITS ACQUISITIONS LIST
IN 1943?
IF NOT, DO YOU HAVE ANY THEORIES
AS TO WHY?
>>I DON'T KNOW OF ANY BACKLASH.
TODAY, IT'S INTERESTING IF
YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A
LONG TIME YOU KNOW YOU CAN
SEARCH ANYTHING ONLINE AND
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF STUFF AND
GOVERNMENT-FUNDED GRANTS ON GAY
HEALTH FOR A LONG TIME ANYTIME
ANYTHING WAS PUBLISHED AND
ORGANIZATION S WOULD SEARCH AND
SEE CERTAIN WORDS AND THERE'D BE
BACKLASH AND THE GOVERNMENT FOR
A LONG TIME WHEN SUBMITTING A
GRANT WOULD TELL YOU TO USE
DIFFERENT WORDS.
WORDS NOT BEING SEARCHED FOR.
BACK THEN I DON'T THINK PEOPLE
WERE SEARCHING AND FINDING STUFF
AS EASILY.
IF SOMEONE SAW IT -- MOST PEOPLE
NON-GAY PROBABLY WOULDN'T KNOW
WHAT IT MEANT.
IF THEY DID THEY PROBABLY WOULD
HAVE THOUGHT IT WAS ANYTHING
NEGATIVE.
THAT'S MY THEORY OF WHY THERE
WASN'T ANY I SAW THOUGH I EVENT
SEARCHED FOR THAT.
>>SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS REMARKED
HOW WONDERFUL YOUR TALK WAS AND
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING
IT AND ALL THE RESEARCH BEHIND
IT.
CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
HOW ORAL HISTORY AND INTERVIEWS
FACTORED INTO YOUR RESEARCH.
MENTIONED PEOPLE YOU SPOKE WITH.
WE HAVE SEVERAL QUESTION THAT
HAVE COME IN ABOUT THE USING OF
ORAL HISTORIES IN INTERVIEWS.
>>ORAL HISTORY IS EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT.
ALLEN BERNSTEIN, MOST THEY
TALKED ABOUT ARE ONES I DIDN'T
DO.
MARCUS WHO HAS DONE AMAZING
INTERVIEWS WITH THE EARLY PEOPLE
INCLUDING BARBARA GETTENS AND
THE ARMY OF CONGRESS IS JUST
INTERVIEWING PEOPLE OF WORLD WAR
II AND SOMEONE NAMED ALLEN
BERNSTEIN WAS INTERVIEWED BY
CONGRESS AND STARTED LISTENING
AND I THOUGHT THIS PERSON IS
GAY.
MAYBE IS THE ALLEN BERNSTEIN I
WAS LOOKING FOR.
SO OTHER PEOPLE HAD DONE THEM.
I ACTUALLY TALKED AND MET WITH
BARBARA AND WISH I HAD TIME TO
TALK TO PEOPLE AND MY
CONVERSATION WITH JOHN
CUNNINGHAM THIS WEEK SHOULD HAVE
RECORDED.
I APOLOGIZE TO JOHN FOR NOT.
I WAS MOSTLY TRYING TO CONFIRM
WHETHER I WAS GETTING THE STORY
RIGHT OR NOT AND AS I TALKED TO
HIM I FOUND OUT ABOUT SO MANY
OTHER AMAZING THINGS I DIDN'T
KNOW ABOUT.
ORAL HISTORIES ARE IMPORTANT.
AND I THANK EVERY HISTORIAN WHO
HAS COLLECTED THEM AND THERE'S
BEEN A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING ON
GAY HISTORY THAT HAVE COLLECTED
STUFF SAYING I DON'T KNOW WHY
THIS IS IMPORTANT TODAY BUT MAY
BE IMPORTANT SOME TIME IN THE
FUTURE.
>>THANK YOU.
SO HERE'S WHAT I WOULD CALL A
REFLECTIVE QUESTION.
WHEN DID YOU REALIZE, DR. SELL,
YOU WERE A PART OF CREATING GAY
HISTORY?
>>WHEN PEOPLE STARTED
INTERVIEWING ME.
GRAD STUDENTS STARTED
INTERVIEWING ME AND AS A
RESEARCHER SOMEONE WHO THINK A
LOT ABOUT RESEARCH, STUDENTS
STARTED COMING TO ME AND A KNOW
ABOUT HUMAN SUBJECTS AND
PROTECTING HUMAN SUBJECTS AND
THE IMPORTANCE OF IT AND CAN
TALK ABOUT AND CAN GIVE TWO-HOUR
TALK ABOUT HOW GAY PEOPLE THE
TERRIBLE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO
GAY PEOPLE THROUGH RESEARCH SO I
UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF
HUMAN SUBJECTS AND BOARDS
HOWEVER, MOST BOARDS ARE OVER
PROTECTIVE PEOPLE WOULD COME TO
SAY I WANT TO INTERVIEW AND
PROTECT YOUR ANONYMITY.
NO ONE WILL KNOW IT WILL YOU AND
A SAID NUMEROUS TIMES EVERYONE
WILL KNOW IT'S ME.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW THIS IS ME.
THESE ARE MY WORDS.
SO BACK TO YOUR STUPID HUME JUN
SUBJECTS COMMITTEE AND TELL THEM
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KEEP THE IN
THE CLOSET.
THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE INSIGHTS
I'VE HAD ABOUT RESEARCH.
AND HOW WE CONDUCT IT AND WHEN
ARE WE PROTECTING -- I THOUGHT
WHEN ARE WE PROTECTING SUBJECTS.
WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT QUEER
PEOPLE THERE'S A LOT OF
DOCUMENTS COLLECTED IN WAYS IN
MEDICAL SETTINGS FOR EXAMPLE AND
YOU THINK THIS IS DISCLOSING
MEDICAL STUFF AND WOULD A PERSON
60 YEARS LATER WOULD THEY
APPRECIATE I'M TELLING THEIR
STORY OR AM I INVADING THEIR
PRIVACY?
THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT ME SO.
NEXT QUESTION, SORRY.
SORRY I RAMBLED.
>>ANOTHER REMEMBER WRITES THANK
YOU FOR THE IMPORTANT AND
INFORMATIVE TALK ABOUT AN OFTEN
TOO OVERLOOKED ASPECT OF OUR
HISTORY.
NOTE THE VALUE OF LIBRARY AND
ARCHIVAL COLLECTIONS AND THE
PROACTIVE COLLECTION OF
MATERIALS WITHOUT IMMEDIATE USE
BASED ON THE POSSIBILITY OF
FUTURE RESEARCH VALUE.
HOW OFTEN IN YOUR HISTORICAL
RESEARCH HAVE YOU ENCOUNTERED
EXAMPLES OF LIBRARIANS AND
ARCHIVISTS RECOGNIZING THE
POTENTIAL VALUE IN MATERIALS
THEY MAY FIND PERSONALLY
OBJECTIONABLE?
>>I WAS ABOUT TO GIVE EXAMPLES.
I DON'T THINK THEY KNOW THE
IMPORTANCE.
PEOPLE WERE FIGHTING STUFF
DURING COVID.
THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW GAY
PEOPLE EXPERIENCED COVID AND
STUFF THAT'S OBJECTIONABLE, IT'S
COLLECTED ALL THE TIME.
I HOPE IT IS AT LEAST.
I WENT TO UNIVERSITY OF
PENNSYLVANIA AND STARTED THE
UNDERGRAD GROUP AND I COLLECTED
SIGNS, LGAP LESBIANS AND GAYS
ATTEND AND THEY USED OTHER SIGNS
AND I TORE THEM DOWN.
I REMEMBER SOMEONE SAYING ME YOU
SHOULD KEEP THIS STUFF.
I DON'T KNOW WHO THINKS OF THAT
BUT I HAVE THE PHONE NUMBERS OF
EVERYONE FROM THE FIRST MEETING.
OBJECTIONABLE, I HOPE AND KNOW
AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE PLACES I
SAID QUICKLY BEFORE, THE NEW
YORK CITY LGBT COMMUNITY CENTER
THEY'RE TRYING TO COLLECT THE
STORIES OF INDIVIDUALS AND
ORGANIZATIONS IN NEW YORK CITY
AND THEY'VE HAD LOTS OF STUFF.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT YOU
MEANT BY OBJECTIONABLE.
IT CAN MEAN SO MANY THINGS.
>>CERTAINLY.
WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE OR TWO MORE
QUESTIONS.
WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU IN YOUR
RESEARCH?
WHAT ASPECTS DO YOU EXPECT TO
EXPLORE FURTHER AND DO YOU HAVE
A BOOK IN MIND?
I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S NEXT.
I THOUGHT ABOUT PUBLISHING.
I'M ALWAYS WAITING FOR SOMEONE
TO WRITE THE BOOK FOR ME TO
READ.
THIS STUFF, AS YOU CAN SEE, I
LOVE.
YOU CAN'T SEE ON THE SHELVES
NEXT TO ME BUT THERE'S A HUGE
COLLECTION OF STUFF I WOULD LOVE
TO USE FOR THE PRODUCTION OF THE
BOOK AND THERE WERE PEOPLE DOING
AS FAR AS IN THE '60s
PRE-STONEWALL THE SOCIETY FOR
INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY WERE
COLLECTING DATA AND A LOVE HOW
THE GAY COMMUNITY WAS DOING
RESEARCH ON THEM SELVES AND
TRYING TO COLLECT INFORMATION
TELLING THEIR STORIES RATHER
THAN HAVING STORIES TOLD ABOUT
THEM.
THAT'S WHAT FASCINATES ME.
>>WHAT ASPECTS OF THE STORIES
YOU HAVE SHARED OR NOT SHARED
WISH YOU CAN INVESTIGATE?
ARE THERE ASPECTS OF THE
STORIES YOU WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS
MORE ON IN YOUR NEXT RESEARCH
STEPS IF SOURCES ALLOW?
>>I WANT SOMEONE ELSE --
SOMEONE LISTENING, WHERE'S THE
REST OF THE RIDDLE OF THE UNDER
WORLD, THE FOURTH BOOK.
IF YOU THE FIRST TWO BOOKS THE
AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND FEMALE
IMPERSONATORS BOOKS AND THE
CHAPTERS IN THE NATIONAL LIBRARY
OF MEDICINE.
THIS PERSON, THIS PERSON WAS
OFFENSIVE WITH WRITING AND
PUBLISHING AND GETTING THEIR
STUFF PUBLISHED.
UNLESS THERE WAS A FIRE OR
SOMETHING, THIS STUFF HAS TO BE
LAYING SOMEWHERE.
PLEASE FIND IT AND GIVE IT TO ME
OR JUST SHOW IT TO ME.
>>FAIR ENOUGH.
VERY IMPORTANT.
WHEN ANYONE CAN IDENTIFY THINGS
THAT THEY KNOW ARE HISTORICALLY
SIGNIFICANT OR BELIEVE ARE
HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT OR
THROUGH A CONVERSATION WITH
EXPERTS LIKE YOU CAN GLEAN
THEY'RE HISTORY SIGNIFICANT TO
BE ABLE TO PRESERVE THOSE THINGS
IS SO IMPORTANT.
ONE FINAL QUESTION.
AN INDIVIDUAL WRITES THANK YOU
FOR THE TALK.
I ALWAYS ENJOY HEARING YOUR
PERSPECTIVE AND INSIGHTS.
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE
BIGGEST LESSON FROM QUEER
ORGANIZING HISTORY AND
DOCUMENTING WE CAN HOLD ON TO IN
THESE CURRENT TIMES?
>>QUEER ORGANIZING HISTORY AND
DOCUMENTATION?
I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE ANSWER
TO YOUR QUESTION BUT THIS IS
WHAT I'LL SAY.
IS THAT LIBRARIANS AND LIBRARIES
HAVE BEEN INTEGRAL AND QUEER
LIBRARIANS HAVE BEEN INTEGRAL TO
THIS PROCESS SINCE THE
BEGINNING.
YOU CAN READ ABOUT QUEER
LIBRARIANS FROM THE BEGINNING OF
LIBRARIES.
AND THE WAY INFORMATION WAS
PRESERVED AND WHEN PEOPLE WANTED
SOMETHING REMOVED HOW THEY
PROTECTED IT.
AND SO MY FAVORITE PEOPLE IN THE
WORLD ARE LIBRARIANS.
AND SECOND IS HISTORIANS.
I LOVE LIBRARIANS AND ARCHIVISTS
AND THE WORK THEY DO BUT SO MANY
OF THEM ARE OPENLY QUEER AND
HAVE BEEN FOR A CENTURY AND I
DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT CONNECTION
IS BUT IT'S SPECIAL AND I
APPRECIATE IT.
>>THANK YOU, DR. SELL.
AND I'LL STATE THE OBVIOUS WHICH
DESERVES TO BE STATED, WE
APPRECIATE YOU AND YOUR RESEARCH
AND YOUR TAKING TIME THIS
AFTERNOON TO PREPARE AND PRESENT
THIS TALK AND PERSONALLY AGAIN,
THANK YOU FOR OUR DIALOGUE IN
ADVANCE.
IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE GETTING TO
KNOW YOU AND ON BEHALF OF THE
NATIONAL LIBRARY OF MEDICINE AND
EVERYONE WATCHING I WISH YOU THE
BEST IN YOUR FUTURE WORK AND
LOOK FORWARD TO KEEPING IN
TOUCH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>THANK YOU.
>>FOLLOWING THAT WONDERFUL TALK
BY DR. SELL OF DREXEL UNIVERSITY
IT'S MY PRIVILEGE TO MENTION OUR
NEXT NLM HISTORY TALK IS GOING
TO BE HELD ON THURSDAY,
SEPTEMBER 21st.
IT'S GOING TO BE THE 7th ANNUAL
LECTURE IN THE HISTORY OF
MEDICINE.
JOINING US ON SEPTEMBER 21st IS
DR. KELLY O'DONNELL.
SHE IS ALSO A 2019 NLM FELLOW
AND GOING TO BE SPEAKING ON
MRS. MEDICINE, DOCTOR'S LIVES
AND THE MAKING OF MODERN
AMERICAN HEALTH CARE.
UNTIL SEPTEMBER 21, WISHING
EVERYONE WELL, HEALTHY AND
PEACEFUL SUMMER AND THANK YOU
AGAIN FOR TUNING IN TODAY AND
THANKS AGAIN FROM ALL OF US FOR
A WONDERFUL PRESENTATION THIS
AFTERNOON.
TAKE CARE.
BYE EVERYBODY.