MY NAME IS JEFF REZNICK I'M CHIEF OF THE HISTORY MEDICINE DIVISION OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY AS WE CONTINUE OUR 2022 SERIES OF ALL VIRTUAL NLM HISTORY TALKS FOR THOSE OF YOU ON TWITTER, THANK YOUS VERY MUCH FOR FOLLOWING ALONG, USING THE HASHTAG. NLM HISTORY TALK PROMOTE AWARENESS AND USE OF NLM AND RELATED HISTORICAL COLLECTIONS FOR RESEARCH, EDUCATION, AND PUBLIC SERVICE IN THE FIELDS OF BIOMEDICINE, THE SOCIAL SCIENCES AND THE HUMANITIES. THE SERIES ALSO SUPPORTS THE COMMITMENT OF THE NLM TO RECOGNIZE THE DIVERSITY OF ITS COLLECTIONS WHICH SPAN 10 CENTURIES, ENCOMPASS A RANGE OF DIGITAL FORMATS AND ORIGINATE FROM NEARLY EVERY PART OF THE GLOBE. OUR SERIES IS ALSO INTENDED TO FOREGROUND THE VOICES OF PEOPLE OF COLOR, WOMEN, AND INDIVIDUALS OF A VERY OF CULTURAL AND DISCIPLINARY BACKGROUNDS WHO VALUE THESE COLLECTIONS AND USE THEM TO ADVANCE THEIR RESEARCH, THEIR TEACHING AND THEIR LEARNING. WE SUPPLEMENT HISTORY TALK WITH SPEAKER INTERVIEWS ON OWN BLOG CALLED CIRCULATING NOW. WHICH IS LOCATED AT CIRCULATING NOW. I'LL ADD THAT NLM HISTORY TALK ARE MADE POSSIBLE BUYOUT STANDING TEAM HERE AT THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE HUMANITIES AS PART OF THE NLM/NEH PARTNERSHIP TO COLLABORATE ON RESEARCH, EDUCATION, AND CAREER INITIATIVES. I WANT TO THANK EACH OF EVERY ONE OF THEIR TIME AND TALENT TO BRING THIS APPROPRIATE TO YOU, THE PUBLIC. BEFORE I INTRODUCE TODAY'S SPEAK A FEW NOTES. OUR NEXT NLM HISTORY TALK. THE SIXING ANNUAL LECTURE IN THE HISTORY OF MEDICINE. AND OFFICED BY DR. MATTHEW, THE PROFESSOR OF MODERN EUROPEAN HISTORY. THIS WILL BE HELD NEXT THURSDAY, MAY 5th AT 2:00 EASTERN TIME. HE WILL BE SPEAKING ABOUT THE FIRST WORLD WAR. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THE LIVE FEEDBACK BUTTON UNDER THE VIDEO STREAM THAT YOU'RE WATCHING. USE THIS FEATURE TO SEND QUESTIONS TO ME, I WILL SHARE WITH OUR SPEAKER DURING OUR Q & A FOLLOWING TODAY'S TALK. AND MOST NOTABLY, TODAY'S TALK IS NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE HUMANITIES AS PART OF THE NLM/NEH PARTNERSHIP TO COLLABORATE ON RESEARCH, EDUCATION, AND CAREER INITIATIVES. THANKS INDEED TO THE NEH AND OUR COLLEAGUES THERE ARE OUR COSPONSORTIUM AND OUR GREAT PARTNERSHIP OVER THE YEARS. WITH ALL OF THIS, I HAVE THE PLEASURE AND PRIVILEGE OF INTRODUCED DR. RANA HOGARTH. ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, URBANA-CHAMPAIGN. DR. RANA HOGARTH HOLDS HER DOCTORATE FROM YALE UNIVERSITY, AND HER MASTER'S JOHNS HOPKINS BLOOMBERG SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH. AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, URBANA-CHAMPAIGN, SHE TEACHES COURSES ON RACE AND REVOLUTIONS, SLAVERY AND SOCIETY, AND RACE, SCIENCE, AND MEDICINE AMONG OTHER RELATED OBJECTS. DR. RANA HOGARTH'S RESEARCH FOCUSES ON THE MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC CONSTRUCTS OF RACE DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY AND BEYOND. DR. RANA HOGARTH WAS RECENTLY RECOGNIZED BY HER INSTITUTION AS A SCHOLAR FOR OUTSTANDING EDUCATION AND RESEARCH CONVEYED THROUGH OUR ENERGY, HER CREATIVITY, AND POTENTIAL IN TEACHING AND ADVANCING RESEARCH AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS, URBANA-CHAMPAIGN COLLEGE OF LIBERAL ARTS AND SCIENCES. DR. RANA HOGARTH'S FIRST BOOK, MEDICALIZING BLACKNESS, 1780 TO 1840 WAS PUBLISHED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA PRESS IN 2017. IN IT, SHE EXAMINES HOW WHITE PHYSICIANS MEDICALIZED BLACKNESS, A TERM SHE USES TO DESCRIBE THE PROCESS BY WHITE PHYSICIANS DESCRIBE BLACKNESS AS A MARKER OF DIFFERENCE IN SLAVE SOCIETIES OF THE AMERICAN ATLANTIC. IN ADDITION TO HER BOOK, DR. RANA HOGARTH AUTHORED NUMEROUS ARTICLES AND JOURNALS INCLUDING THE AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, HISTORY COMPASS, AND AFRICAN AND BLACK DIASPORA. OUR NEXT PROJECT SHE WILL BE SPEAKING TODAY, EXAMPS THE GENEALOGY AND DEPLOYMENT OF THE TERMS FOR MIXED RACE OFFSPRING OF BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE IN AMERICAN MEDICAL AND LAY DISCOURSE. DR. RANA HOGARTH'S WORK TRACES HOW THESE TERMS WERE USED IN COLONIAL, CARIBBEAN CONTEXT AND IN MAINLAND NORTH AMERICAN DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY. AND AMERICAN EUGENIC ADOPTED THE TERMS TO CORRELATE MENTAL AND PHYSICAL CAPABILITIES OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE TO THEIR RACIAL ANCESTRAL MAKEUP. I'M HONORED TODAY TO WELCOME DR. RANA HOGARTH TO THE NATIONAL LIBRARY OF MEDICINE TO SPEAK ON "THE MEASURE OF BLACK (UN)FITNESS: LEGACIES OF SLAVERY IN THE EARLY EUGENICS MOVEMENT." DR. RANA HOGARTH, WELCOME. AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. WE REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR TALK. >> DR. HOGARTH: THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT'S REALLY MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE AND I'M THRILLED TO BE SHARE SOMETHING OF MY WORK WITH YOU TODAY. I'M VERY MUCH ALSO LOOKING FORWARD TO THE Q & A. SO I AM GOING TO BE SHARING WITH YOU KIND OF NEW WORK. SOME PRELIMINARY FINDINGS IF YOU WILL. SO PART OF MY TALK TODAY IS COMING FROM MY SECOND BOOK PROJECT WHICH IS TENTATIVELY TITLED, MEASURING MUSEDGEINATION, RACE CROSSING STUDIES AND THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY. I DO WANT TO OFFER A QUICK CONTENT WARNING FOR THE AUDIENCE. I WILL BE USING TERMS SUCH AS NEGRI, RACIAL HYBRID, MULATTO AND ADRENOISM AND I USE IT, MY USE OF THE TERMS IS IN MY WAYANY ENDORSEMENT. SO WITH THIS NEW PROJECT THAT I'M GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU FOOD, I SET OUT TO ANSWER SEVERAL HISTORICAL QUESTIONS THAT WERE RELATED TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF RACE AND RATIONAL DIFFERENCE IN THE AFTERMATH OF SLAVERY AND MANY OF THESE QUESTIONS DID IN FACT EMERGE WHEN I WAS COMPLETING THE FIRST BOOK. SO FOR EXAMPLE, I NOTICED THAT IN SOME OF THE PRIMARY SOURCES, THE MEDICAL TEXTS THAT I WOULD READ I WOULD SEE THERE ARE REFERENCED TO MIXED RACE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT SUSCEPTIBILITIES THAN BLACK PEOPLE FOR CERTAIN KINDS OF FEVERS AND DISEASES. IT GOT ME THINKING ABOUT HOW EACH RACIAL COMPONENTS OF A MIXED RACE PERSON, THIS IS SPECIFICALLY PEOPLE WITH BLACK AND WHITE ANCESTRY, HOW THAT WAS ACTUALLY BEING VIEWED BY PHYSICIANS AND VIEWED IN MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC DISCOURSE. SO I STARTED TO CONSIDER HOW THE RACIAL MAKEUP OF A MIXED RACE PERSON WAS MEASURED AND WONDERED WHEN THAT KIND OF PROCESS BEGAN IN EARNEST. I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THE SCIENTIFIC LOGIC BEHIND IT. I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT SLAVERY HAD TO DO WITH IT, AND ANYTHING AT ALL, THIS ACTUALLY LED ME DOWN THE PATH OF PURSUING QUESTIONS ABOUT DECISION METHODS TO QUANTIFY BLACKNESS THAT WERE ESPECIALLY EMPLOYED BY EUGENICISTS, PARTICULARLY CHARLES B DAVENPORT, ONE OF AMERICAN'S LEADING EUGENICISTS IN THE 20th CENTURY. SO I STARTED THIS PROJECT SAYING I'M JUST GOING TO LOOK AT A COUPLE OF DAVENPORTS OF RACE CROSS STUDY AND WHAT IDENTITIES OF RACE GUIDED HIS RESEARCH TRAJECTORY. SO I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, THIS CURRENT PROJECT EXAMINES THE PROCESS THROUGH WHICH EUGENICISTS CAME TO MEASURE MIXED RACE PEOPLE, THOSE OF BLAG AND WHITE AN ESRY, AND CLASS THEM AS PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, AND SOCIALLY UNFIT. AND MY FIRST BOOK, THE RACE IN THE UNITED STATES AND THE CARIBBEAN I ALSO USED THE SAME REGIONS IN THIS CURRENT PROJECT. IN FACT I FIND THAT IN DOING THIS STUDY IN STARTING THIS PROJECT, SLAVERY ERA IDEAS FROM THESE REGIONS AS THEY RELATED TO RACIAL FITNESS, ENDURANCE, INTELLIGENCE, AND INABILITY, ACTUALLY LAID THE IDEE LOGIC GROUND WORD FOR THE RACE CROSSING STUDIES. SO ESSENTIALLY, THESE FORMER SLAVERY SOCIETIES IN THE AMERICAS EMERGE AS CRITICAL STAGING GROUNDS FOR EUGENICISTS, SOCIAL SCIENCES, AN RUPOLISHES AND OTHERS IN ALLIED PROFESSIONS TO EXTRACT DATA FROM THESE SO-CALLED BLACK AND WHITE RACIAL HYBRIDS FOR THE PURPOSES OF ADVANCING KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF HEREDITY AND RACIAL FITNESS MORE BROADLY. ESSENTIALLY THAT THE SCIENCE THAT THE RESEARCH SUPPORTED VALIDATED THE KIND OF BELIEFS THAT RACE WAS AN ASPECT OF ONE' BIOLOGY, AND BLACK PEOPLE'S STATUS WAS BY LOGICALLY DETERMINED IN A FUNCTION OF THEIR RACE. ONE THING THAT I FOUND LOOKING AT THIS REGION IS THAT KANSAS THE MEASURE OF MISCEGENATION AND RACIAL FITNESS WAS A TRANSNATIONAL ENTERPRISE. SO, CHARLES DAVENPORT, I WILL SAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT IN A MOMENT, ACTUALLY CONDUCTED TWO OF HIS MAJOR RACE CROSSING STUDIES IN 1913. AND RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA IN 1929 IN THE BRITISH WEST INDIES. THERE WERE HIGH RATES OF ILLEGITOMY, THAT FELL IN LINE WITH ERRONEOUS IDEAS ABOUT BLACK SEXUALITY, DAVENPORT CLAIMS HE WAS ABLE TO GET THE DATA HE NEEDED. THERE WAS NO LANGUAGE BARRIER FOR HIS RESEARCH ASSISTANTS AND NO CONCERNS ABOUT OUTING FAMILY SECRETS AND SORT THAT COULD LEAD TO SEVERE HARM FOR THE RESEARCH SUBJECTS. IF WE THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE REDEEMED SOUTH OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THE RACE RELATIONS, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY REDESCEND TO SPEAK ABOUT CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THEIR FAMILY, THEIR ANCESTRY. HE FOUND HE COULD GET AROUND THAT IN THE CARIBBEAN AND SOMETHING THAT IS QUITE CRITICAL THINKING ABOUT WHERE HE CONDUCTED HIS STUDIES. DABBEN PORT WAS ABLE TO CONSTRUCT PARTS OF THE CARIBBEAN AS SORT OF THESE BACKWARDS PLACES WHERE RACIAL MIXTURE WAS ALLOWED TO TAKE PLACE AND OTHER AND PATHOLOGIST THAT GEOGRAPHY IN A WAY THAT WOULD NOT OFFEND HIS AMERICAN AUDIENCES, CONSIDERING THE TYPE OF PROJECTS HE WAS INVOLVING IS INTERRACIAL SEX, IN MANY CASES, THIS WOULD HAVE INVOLVED WHITE MEN AND ENSLAVED BLACK WOMEN. THIS IS NOT A TOPIC HE WOULD ADDRESS OPENLY THE WAY HE WANTED TO IN THE UNITED STATES. SO ESSENTIALLY TO DEAL WITH THIS INTERRACIAL SEX AND MIXING, DAVENPORT WOULD FOCUS ON THE CARIBBEAN, AND OPENLY TALK ABOUT IT THERE AND CAST THAT PLACE AS IMMORAL AND SORT OF A SIGN OF A LESSER CIVILIZED PART OF THE WORLD. A LOT OF THIS OF COURSE KIND OF POINTS TO SLAVERY. THE ROLE OF SLAVERY IN CREATING THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT AIDED RACIAL MIXING. AND I THINK IT IS SORT OF ESSENTIAL TO THINKING ABOUT THE CREATION OR THE CONDUCTING OF THESE MIXED, THESE STUDIES OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE. SO ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT AGAIN, LIKE MIXING A PARALLEL BETWEEN SLAVERY AND EUGENICS, THIS ABILITY TO COMPARE THE BODIES OF BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE IN SICKNESS AND HEALTH VERY MUCH TOOK PLACE DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY. AND A LOT OF THE DATA THAT WAS COLLECTED SORT OF RESURFACES, IT DOESN'T JUST SORT OF DISSIPATE. SO WHAT I WANTED TO DO WITH THIS PROJECT WAS TO THINK ABOUT AND CENTER SLAVERY IN THIS RESPECT AND KIND OF SHOW HOW EUGENIC EFFORTS AT QUANTIFYING RACIAL MIXTURE AND FIDNESS REPRESENTED A MARRIAGE OF NEW IDEAS, IN TERMS OF GENETICS AND SORT OF OLD IDEAS, HOLD OVER FROM SLAVERY. SO, A MARRIAGE OF THE TWO APPROACHES. I ALSO WANTED TO JUST SAY LANE ABOUT WHAT I HOPE TO DO WITH THE SECOND PROJECT. SO ONE, I REALLY WANT TO REFRAME EUGENICS AND THE TARGETS OF THE EUGENIC PHASE. SO THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDIES ON EUGENIC THAT WILL TELL US ABOUT SORT OF IT'S CLEARLY ANTISEMITIC, AUTOMOBILALIST, XENOPHOBIC AND ANTIIMMIGRANTS. BUT I ALSO THOUGHT WE COULD ALSO CONSIDER THE ROLES OF PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT IN THE AMERICAS AND WHAT THEIR EXPERIENCES WERE LIKE WITH EUGENICS. I ALSO WANTED TO MOVE A LITTLE BIT AWAY FROM THE APPROACH OF THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE INAPPROPRIATE APPLICATION OF MENDELIAN GENETICS TO PEOPLE, AND FOCUS MORE ON MEASUREMENT, ANTHROPOLOGY, AND OTHER DISCIPLINES THAT WERE NOT AS SORT OF NEW AND NOW, AS ONE MIGHT SAY IN THAT TIME PERIOD, BUT ACTUALLY HAD ROOTS IN SLAVERY IN THE CIVIL WAR ERA, I WILL SAY A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT. I WILL SAY WITH THIS PROJECT I WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT THE BLENDING OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND THE LOGIC OF RACIAL CATEGORIZATION ROOTED IN SLAVERY. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, DAVIN PORT MIGHT TAKE PICTURES OF PEOPLE AND SAY THIS IS -- AND SOMEHOW, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. BUT SHE ACCESSING AND USE A KIND OF RACIAL CATEGORIZATION THAT WE FIND DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY. AND SO HE IS SORTING TELLING US THESE ARE THE FEATURES TO LOOK FOR AS IF TO SORT OF FURTHER CATEGORIZE AND ISOLATE THESE INDIVIDUALS. AND, OF COURSE, I MENTIONED BEFORE WITH THIS PROJECT I REALLY WANT US TO THINK ABOUT THE ROLE OF FORMER SLAVERY SOCIETIES IN THE AMERICAS AS THE CRITICAL SITES FOR EUGENICISTS TO MEASURE RACIAL FITNESS AND SORT OF AGAIN TO EXTRACT DATA FROM THESE MIXED RACE PEOPLE. NOW, I DO WANT TO FOCUS TODAY AND WHAT I WILL MOSTLY FOCUS ON TODAY IS POINT ONE, REFRAMING EUGENICS AND THE TARGETS OF THE EUGENIC SPACE. SO ESSENTIALLY, AS I SAID BEFORE, THERE'S THIS USE OF COMPARATIVE ANATOMY, ANTHROPOLOGY, ALONG WITH MENDELIAN GENETICS AND STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT CREATES I WOULD ARGUE IS A FACADE OF DATA COLLECTION ON MIXED RACE PEOPLE. AND WE CAN THINK ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, .2 WHEN I MENTION ANTHROPOLOGIST AND THE CIVIL WAR. WE CAN THINK ABOUT DATA COLLECTED BY THE U.S. SANITARY COMMISSION DURING THE CIVIL WAR PARTICULARLY DATA ON VITALITY AND LUNG CAPACITY OF BLACK, WHITE, AND MIXED RACE TROOPS. THAT DATA ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, SUGGESTED THAT BLACK PEOPLE AND MULATTOS WERE LESS FIT THAN WHITE. THIS IS THE KIND OF DATA MEN LIKE DAVENPORT WILL REFER TO. WE CAN THINK ABOUT REALLY EXCELLENT SCHOLARSHIP BY BRAUN, FOR EXAMPLE, DISCUSSED THIS BAROMETER, THAT IS USED IN THE SANITARY COMMISSION STUDY THAT BASICALLY OFFERS US PROOF HOW THIS APPROACH TO PRECISION MEASUREMENT OF VUTHEYTY AMONG DIFFERENT RACES ESSENTIALLY CONTRIBUTED AND HELPED CREATE THIS FICTION. SO IN A SENSE I REALLY WANT TO CONSIDER THE LONG SHADOW SLAVERY CAST OVER THE DEVELOPMENT OF EUGENICIST AND HOW IT HAS SORT OF MAJOR REPERCUSSIONS FOR THE WAYS THAT WE THINK ABOUT HOW BLACK PEOPLE EXPERIENCE EUGENICS AS OBJECTS OF INTEREST BEFORE THEY BECAME TARGETS OF LATER 20th CENTURY EUGENIC PRACTICES, SUCH AS IF VOLUNTARY STERILIZATION. I WANT TO MAKE A VERY SPECIFIC CLAIM HERE, I'M FOCUSING ON THE EARLY DECADES OF THE 20th CENTURY. NOT SO MUCH GOING INTO MID CENTURY AND THE '70s, WE HAVE CASES OF INVOLUNTARY STERILIZATION OF BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN. I'M FOCUSING ON THE EARLY PERIOD. BUT I DO WANT TO SAY THAT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT EUGENICS IN THIS EARLY PERIOD, IT IS SELDOM VIEWED THROUGH THE LENS OF THE ANTIBLOCK RACISM THAT CONTINUED TO FESTER AND GROW AFTER THE CIVIL WAR. AND I WANT US TO SORT OF THINK ABOUT THIS, IN THIS WAY IT CAN BE TRANSFORMATIVE HOW WE THINK ABOUT HISTORIES OF SLAVERY AND SCIENCE. I WANT TO PUSHBACK AGAINST THE IDEA THAT EUGENIC IS REACTIONARY. SO CHANGES IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC LANDSCAPE AND IMMIGRATION, THESE ARE THINGS THAT CAUSE EUGENICS TO SORT OF EMERGE. I ACTUALLY WANT TO THINK ABOUT THIS MORE AS PART OF AN ONGOING PRACTICE OF RACE MAKING. AN ON GOURDE PRACTICE OF PATHOLOGIZING CERTAIN BODIES THAT WAS ALREADY GOING ON. I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT NEW ADVANCES IN GENETICS, OF COURSE, INFLUENCED MEN LIKE DAVENPORT, OF COURSE, INCLUDED THE QUEST TO MEASURE AND PREDICT CERTAIN HUMAN TRAITS. BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS ONE PART OF THE STORY. I THINK WE DO NEED TO KIND OF LOOK BACK TO THE ERA OF SLAVERY. I WOULD SAY THAT WE CANNOT DISAGGREGATE THE NATURE OF EUGENICS STUDIES OF MULATTOS THAT AIDED IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT VERY GROUP OF PEOPLE. SO I THINK ABOUT THIS IN THE SENSE OF, JUST GOING TO SAY RATHER EXPLICITLY, I WANT TO NAME EUGENICS AS A SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE THAT WAS A DIRECT BENEFICIARY OF SLAVERY ERROR IDEOLOGIES ABOUT RACE AND FITNESS. AND I DO THINK THAT, AGAIN, IN TERMS OF WHERE THIS FITS WITH OTHER STUDIES THAT ARE OUT THERE, I OFTEN FIND THAT WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT EUGENICS, AS I SAID BEFORE, IT IS OFTEN VIEWED AS THIS MOVEMENT THAT TARGETED, I'M QUOTING HERE, QUOTE NOT RACIAL OUTSIDERS, BUT MARGINALIZED INSIDER WHOSE THREATENED NATIONAL AND CLASS IDEALS, END QUOTE. NOW, THIS IS CERTAINLY TRUE. AGAIN, I'M SURE MANY OF THE AUDIENCE FAMILIAR WITH EUGENICS MIGHT THINK OF INDIANA AND THE FIRST INVOLUNTARY STERILIZATION LAWS AND THE THINK ABOUT THE FACT THIS IS TARGETING WHITE INMATES AND PRISONERS, POOR WHITE PEOPLE, ALL OF THIS IS OF COURSE VERY TRUE. BUT I WANT TO KIND OF EXPAND THIS IDEA AND MODIFY IT AGAIN, THAT RECOGNIZING MIXED RACE PEOPLE WITH BLACK ANCESTRY WERE RACIAL OUTSIDERS AND MARGINALIZED INSIDERS. PRESENT IN THE AMERICAS PART OF NATION AND EMPIRE BUILDING, BUT THEY WERE ALWAYS MARGINALIZED AND EXCLUDED. IF WE TAKE THIS VERY EXPENSIVE VIEW WE CAN ALSO CONSIDER THE EXPERIENCES OF OR NONWHITE PEOPLE BORN IN THE UNITED STATES FOR GENERATIONS WHO WERE MARGINALIZED INSIDERS AND RACIAL OUTSIDERS, SUCH AS JAPANESE AMERICANS, FOR EXAMPLE. SO WE MIGHT CONSIDER ALSO IN TERMS OF BEING VERY ELASTIC HERE WITH THE IDEA OF REFRAMING EUGENICS, AND ANXIETY ABOUT RACIAL PURITY AND FITNESS AS THEY RELATED TO NONWHITE PEOPLE HAD A VERY STORIED HISTORY BEFORE THE 20th CENTURY. EVEN BEFORE THE TERM OF EUGENICS IN 1883. SO OF COURSE, I'M THINKING ABOUT EUGENICS, YOU'RE THINK ABOUT A LOT OF THE GREAT SECONDARY LITERATURE OUT THERE. OF COURSE, I PICKED UP DANIEL'S WORK WHO IS ONE OF THE LEADING AUTHORITIES ON EUGENICS, AND HE POINTS OUT THAT ROUGH LE20 YEARS BEFORE EVEN COINING THE TERM EUGENIC, THERE WERE WAYS TO IMPROVE HUMAN STOCK. HE DID NEWS HESITATE, FOR EXAMPLE, TO PRONOUNCE BLACK PEOPLE AS MENTALLY INEPT. THESE THOUGHTS APPEAR IN HIS 1869 HEREDITARY GENIUS. AND HE NOTES THAT HE WANTED TO INVESTIGATION THE QUOTE THE ORIGINS OF NATURAL ABOUT END QUOTE. IF WE DIG DEEPER INTO HEREDITARY GENUS. NEGRO INTELLIGENCE WAS TWO GRADES BELOW OF THE ENGLISH AND NOT A SIGN OF QUOTE GOOD STOCK. THIS ASSESSMENT IS ALSO REVEALING. HE TELLS US WHERE HE IS GETTING SOME OF THIS DATA. HE SAYS QUOTE THE NUMBER AMONG THE NEGROES OF THESE WHO SHOULD CALL 1/2 WHITTED MEN IS VERY LARGE. EVERY GROUP ALLUDED TO SERVICES, AND AMERICA IS FULL OF INSTANCES. END QUOTE. HE IS CLEARLY ACCESSING A SPACE OF RACIAL GIARAPHY. LOOKING AT THE AMERICAS IN 1869. AND NEGRO SERVANTS. IN MANY WAYS THIS GIVES US AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE HE IS THINKING AND THINKING ABOUT RACIALIZED LINES. SHE GETTING HIS IDEA FROM THE AMERICANS, FROM A PLACE THAT IS CHANGED FROM TO SLAVERY SYSTEM AND SHAPED THE LANDSCAPE. THINKING ABOUT THIS, PUSHING BACK, NOT STARTING WITH 1883, THE COINING OF THE TERM, BUT THINKING ABOUT EARLY IDEAS OF GOOD AFTERNOON, STOCK AND SORT OF MENTAL ABILITIES AND WHICH RACIAL GROUPS WERE IN AND OUT OF THAT CATEGORIZATION. THE OTHER THING I DO, I'M REFRAMING EUGENICS AND THE TARGETS OF THE EUGENICIST CASE. IT AGAIN GOES BACK TO ANTHROPOLOGY. YOU WILL SEE HERE, I JUST UNDERLINED. THIS IS 1869. SO GOING BACK A BUILT EARLIER, AND THINKING ABOUT ANTHROPOLOGY, WHICH IS SORT OF THE SCIENCE THAT DEFINES PHYSICAL MEASURES OF A PERSON'S SIZE, FORM, AND FUNCTIONAL CAPACITIES. PHYSICIANS AND SCIENTISTS WORKING FOR THE U.S. COMMISSION STUDY, BLACK, WHITE, MULATTO SOLDIERS. HERE IS INVESTIGATES OF THE MILITARY AND STATISTICS OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS, PUBLISHED IN 1869. AND PICTURED RIGHT HERE. HERE, OF COURSE, THIS IS AN EFFORT THAT IS LED BY BENJAMIN, HE IS AN ASTRONOMER. THIS IS A UNION EFFORT, THESE ARE THE FOLKS FIGHTING AGAINST SLAVERY. BUT STILL VERY MUCH WEDDED TO THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE INNATE BIOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE. THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE INFERIOR IN SOME WAY TO WHITES. WHAT HE DOES IS BASICALLY ADVOCATE FOR THE MEASUREMENT OF MEN TO CREATE AND COLLECT DATA SORT OF HARD FACTS, IF YOU WILL. OF COURSE, NOT RECOGNIZING THAT FOR MANY OF THE BLACK AND MIXED RACE TROOPS THAT WOULD HAVE JOIND PROBABLY HAVE SUFFERED FROM EXPOSURE, POOR NUTRITION FOR A LARGE PORTION OF THEIR LIFE, THEY WERE FLEEING FROM SLAVERY, AND SUBJECT TO POOR LIVING CONDITIONS. AT ANY RATE, WE HAVE THIS SO-CALLED COLLECTION OF HARD DATA. WHAT IS INTERESTING TO FIND THAT AMERICAN EUGENICISTS LIKE CHARLES DAVENPORT ACTUALLY CITES THE STUDY IN THIS MILITARY STUDY, ARMY ANTHROPOLOGY, THAT HE COMISSIONS IN 1919. SO DAVIN PORT IS LOOKING FOR THE AVERAGE WAITS OF MULATTOS, HE CITES HIM LOOKING AT THE PARTICULAR STUDY. AND WE KNOW THAT GERMAN STATISTICIAN, HOFFMANN, WHO OFFERED RACE, TRADES AND TENDENCY OF THE AMERICAN NEGRO IN 1896. HOFFMAN WRITES THE MIXED RACE IS THEREFORE SUFFICIENTLY PROVEN BY BOTH METHODS. HERE IS THE DATA ON THEIR VITAMTY, IT IS PROVEN AND A AN EFFECT. I WANT TO BRING THIS UP TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF ONE, THIS EARLY IDEA OF FITNESS AND RACIAL FITNESS IN THE 1860s. THINKING ABOUT HOW IT IS BEING USED AND CREATING THIS PAPER TRAIL FOR YOU. I DO WANT TO SAY A NUMBER OF OTHER FANTASTIC SCHOLARS HAVE ALSO LOOKED AT THIS SANITARY COMMISSION REPORT, THEY HAVE ALL KIND OF SAID, OKAY, THIS STUDY ACTUALLY IS SORT OF LIKE THIS CLEARINGHOUSE OF DATA ABOUT INNATE RACIAL DIFFERENCES AND MEASUREMENT. AND WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE MORE OF THIS IF WE LOOK INTO DAVIN PORT'S PAPER. SO THIS IS WHEN THE AMERICAN PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY, I WENT TO COLLECT PRIMARY SOURCE DATA. YOU WILL SEE THE REFERENCES. THIS IS A PROPOSAL FOR NEGRO STUDY IN 1927. THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE DO THIS? HOW DO WE CREATE AND START PLANNING THIS GREAT STUDY WE WANT TO ENACT? YOU WILL SEE HERE, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE RESONATE OF PREVIOUS WORK, THERE'S A REFERENCE DURING THE CIVIL WAR OBSERVATIONS ON ALL OF THE RACES REPRESENTED IN THE NORTHERN ARMY WERE MADE AFTERWARDS REPORTED ON. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE IS SORT OF, I'M FOLLOWING THIS KIND OF PAPER TRAIL, AND WHO IS CITING WHO, WHERE IS THIS PAPER TRAIL COME FROM . THIS IS CITING THE WORK OF CHARLES DENVER PORT. SO THE AIM OF THIS PAPER IS TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN FILL GAPS IN OUR COLLECTIVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AND EUGENIC IN THE 19th CENTURY. AND THE ASSUMPTIONS, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT IS NOT TRUE ABOUT MIXED RACE BODIES, THAT WERE PICKED UP BY EUGENICISTS AND STUDIED. THEY LOOKED INTO THIS TO SEE IT IS DEBUNK MYTH OR MODIFY THINGS. THERE IS SHOW SHORTAGE OF WHITE COMMON FELTERS WHO WERE INTERESTED IN KIND OF PICKING UP THE THREADS OF INFORMATION AND RUNNING WITH THEM. SO FOR EXAMPLE, I'M GOING TO FOCUS QUITE A BIT ON CHARLES DAVENPORT. BUT I WANT TO BE REALLY CLEAR, I STARTED THE PROJECT, I'M GOING TO WORK WITH DAVENPORT'S PAPERS. BUT HE JOINED A PRETTY CROWDED FIELD OF SCIENTISTS INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC. WE CAN THINK OF WHITE AND BLACK SCIENTISTS STUDYING PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT. SO I SHOULD SAY, AND I'LL SAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT CAROLYN, SHE ACTUALLY WAS A MIXED RACE WOMAN HERSELF. EARNED A MASTER'S IN ANTHROPOLOGIST IN HARVARD AND HAD VERY DIFFERENT CONCLUSIONS FROM CHARLES DAVENPORT. SO I DO FOCUS ON DAVENPORT QUITE A BIT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE, HIS RESEARCH METHODS WERE CRITIQUED BY HIS PEERS, THEY DIDN'T CARE FOR HIS SCIENTIFIC METHODOLOGIES. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, I, YOU KNOW, I JUST COULD NOT RESIST, BUT PEARSON, WHO WAS AT ONE POINT AND TIME A FRIEND OF DAVENPORT, WROTE A SCATHING REVIEW OF RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DAVENPORT AND OPPOSING RACIST VIEWS, BUT ABOUT HIS SCIENCE. AND PEARSON SAYS OF DAVENPORT. THE ONLY THING THAT IS APPARENT, THIS IS RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA, THE SAMPLES ARE TOO SMALL AND DRAWN FROM TOO HETEROGENEOUS POPULATION TO PROVIDE TRUSTWORTHY CONCLUSIONS AT ALL. END QUOTE. HIS PEERS ARE THINKING. CAROLYN IS TRAINED USING SORT OF SIMILAR METHODS OF MEASUREMENT AND WRITES HER MASTER'S THESIS IN 1932, A STUDY OF NEGRO WHITE FAMILIES IN THE UNITED STATES. AGAIN, SHE DOES THIS UNDER INIGIOUS OF SHOWING THE GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE. OPPOSITE OF WHAT DAVENPORT HAS TO SAY. I WILL SAY THAT HER WORK HAS NOT BEEN AS THOROUGHLY STUDIED AS DAVENPORT'S. BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SCHOLARS LOOKING AT HOW BLACK PEOPLE RESPONDED TO AND IN SOME WAY PARTICIPATED IN EUGENIC. THEY INCLUDE A FEW, BUT THERE IS CLEARLY A SCHOLARSHIP, A BODY OF SCHOLARSHIP OUT THERE THAT SUGGESTS THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT CAPTIVE. THEY ARE ALSO INTERESTED IN RACIAL, INTERESTED IN IDEAS OF EUGENICS. SO REALLY WHAT I WANT TO DO, FIND MYSELF DOING WITH THIS NOW IS KIND OF USING DAVENPORT AT THIS POINT OF ENTRY AND SORT OF THINKING ABOUT WHO ELSE IS TACKLING THESE QUESTIONS. HOW SLAVERY IS INFORMING THAT. NOW I WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU A LITTLE BIT OF THE MYTH MAKING AND IDEAS ABOUT BLACK (UN)FITNESS AND MIXED RACE (UN)FITNESS THAT DAVENPORT TACKLES AND OTHER SORT OF SCIENTISTS AT THIS TIME ARE THINKING ABOUT WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING AT MIXED RACE PEOPLE AND CONDUCTING THESE STUDIES. SO SOME OF THE CLAIMS ABOUT MIXED RACE PEOPLE THAT DAVENPORT ADDRESSES IN HIS WORK INCLUDE CLAIMS THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE WERE INHERENTLY SICKLY AND THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO REPRODUCE. SO WE CAN THINK ABOUT HOW THESE MYTHS CIRCULATED. THEY CIRCULATED WIDELY IN THE AMERICAS, WELL BEFORE THE ADVENT OF EUGENICS. THEY WERE NOT ALWAYS CONSISTENT. WE CAN THINK ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH PHYSICIANS WOULD SORT OF MAKE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE INABILITY OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE TO DO ONE THING, AND CLAIM THEY WERE SUPERIOR AT DOING OTHER THINGS. AND THIS IS CLAIMING THAT MULATTOS ARE WEAK. SO THE EDITOR OF THE MEMPHIS MEDICAL REPORTER IN 1855 COMPLAINED THAT THE MULATTO WAS QUOTE LESS CURABLE THAN WHITE PERSONS ON A COUNT OF HIS GREATER FEEBLENESS OF CONSTITUTION, END QUOTE. AND OTHER VIEWS AROUND THIS TIME PEOPLE WERE SIMILAR, THE SLAVE OWNERS IN THE BRITISH CARIBBEAN, IN 1834, MULATTOS WERE WEAK AND AFEMININE PERSONS. AND AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, BENJAMIN, OF THE U.S. SANITARY COMMISSIONS REPORT SAID IT WAS A WELL-KNOWN PHENOMENA THAT MIXED RACE MEN HAD INTERIOR VITALITY. SO HERE ARE THE IDEAS THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE ARE INNATELY WEAK. NOW, DAVENPORT, OF COURSE, IS AWARE OF THIS. SO THINKING ABOUT, FLASHING FORWARD TO THE 20th CENTURY, DAVENPORT IS AWARE OF THIS. AND HE ACTUALLY EARNESTLY ADDRESSED THE HARDINESS, THE ROBUSTNESS OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE INCIDENTAL ASIDES IN HIS STUDY. HE MADE REFERENCE TO IT. BUT MENTIONING THIS PROJECT IS A LONG OF ASSESSING, AND CRITIQUING AND COMMENTS ON AFRICAN DESCENT BODIES, SOMETHING THAT WAS FROM SLAVERY. RIGHT? SO, FOR EXAMPLE, DAVENPORT WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT THE ROBUSTNESS OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE, HE WILL REFERENCE SLAVERY ERA COMMENTERS. I WANT TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF THIS. TWO VERY WELL-KNOWN SLAVERY ERA SHELTERS ARE KNOWN FOR PROPAGATING THIS IDEA THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE CANNOT REPRODUCE. THE FIRST IS EDWARD, IT WAS EXTRAORDINARY THAT TWO MULATTOS SHOULD BE UNABLE TO CONTINUE THEIR SPECIES. THE WOMEN BARON OR OFFSPRING NOT GAINING MATURITY. THAT IS 1774. THAT IS EDWARD WHO IS PROPAGATING THIS CLAIM THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE CANNOT REPRODUCE. AND FURTHER INQUIRY. IN 1943, A PHYSICIAN FROM THE UNITED STATES, ABSOLUTELY DECIDED TO DEVOTE TIME TO THIS TOPIC. SO IN HIS 1843 ARTICLE, THE MULATTO, A HYBRID, POSSIBLE EXTERMINATION OF THE TWO RACES AND MAKES REFERENCE TO THE THE ABILITY TO REPRODUCE. NOT NAMES EDWARD LOG-IN HIS DISCUSSION. THEY ARE HIGH AUTHORITIES IN THEIR HISTORY OF JAMAICA AND THE MALE AND FEMALE MULATTO DO NOT PRODUCE SO MANY CHILDREN TOGETHER. AND THEY HAVE SHORTER LIFESPANS AND THE WOMEN ARE PLAGUED BY DELICACY AND THE INABILITY TO CONCEIVE CHILDREN END QUOTE. SO THIS IS -- NOT AND LONG DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY MAKING THESE OBVIOUSLY FALSE CLAIMS ABOUT THE ABILITIES OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE TO REPRODUCE. WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT DAVENPORT HANDLES THIS. HE TOTALLY BRINGS IT UP. AND WHAT HE DOES IN HIS STUDY, HEREDITY OF SKIN COLOR AND NEGRO WHITE CROSSES IN 1913, HE SAID THERE IS AN ANCIENT TRADITION, AND HE IS QUITE LITERALLY BY NAME POINTING OUT THE FIGURES WHO CLAIM THAT, THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE CANNOT REPRODUCE. DAVENPORT CONCLUDES QUOTE, THERE'S NO SUPPORT IN OUR DATA FOR THE NOTION OF THE LACK OF NEGRO WHITE CROSS OR THEIR VIABILITY. HE IS SAYING THIS IS NOT TRUE. THIS IS A MYTH THAT NEEDS TO BE DEBUNKED. BUT I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR HERE. DAVENPORT IS NOT PROGRESSIVE. HE WANTS TO SAY THAT SCIENCE PROVES, SCIENCE IS WHAT WE SHOULD RELY ON WHEN WE MAKE ANY KIND OF STATEMENT. HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THIS IDEA OF AN INABILITY TO REPRODUCE AND HE IS LESS WILLING TO SAY THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE ARE INHERENTLY WEAK, HE DOES KIND OF MAKE CLAIMS ABOUT THE WEAKNESS OF THE CONSTITUTION IN A VERY INDIRECT WAY. SO FOR EXAMPLE HE WILL SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, MIXED RACE PEOPLE INHERENT SOME PHYSICAL ROBUSTNESS FROM BLACK PEOPLE. HE SAID THE NEGRO HAS MANY INDIVIDUALENS AND PHYSICAL QUALITY OVER THE RIGHT. HE IS LESS APT TO SUFFER FROM DEFECTS OF THE SIGN, GOITER, OBESITY, DEAF-MUTENESS. BEFORE WE SAY DAVENPORT SEEMS REASONABLE. HE IS NOT. HAY SHOW HIGH RATES OF TUBERCULOSIS, AND VENEREAL DISEASE RATES THAT ARE SEVERAL TIMES HIGHER THAN THE WHITES. THIS IS AN OLD IDEA, PARTICULARLY WITH VENEREAL DISEASES. SO RATHER THAN SAYING OKAY, THEY ARE WEAK, I THINK HE IS ACTUALLY PAINING THEM AS VECTORS, THEY ARE A PUBLIC HEALTH MENACE. WE CAN SAY BY THE 20th CENTURY WITH GERM THEORY, THAT TUBERCULOSIS IS AN INDEXES AND CONTAGIOUS. THERE IS A CLEAR KIND OF ASSUMPTION THAT ARE CERTAIN RACES MORE PRONE TO TUBERCULOSIS. WE CAN THINK SPECIFICALLY THE WAYS MEXICANS WERE TREATED IN THE SOUTHWEST BEING A RACE THAT WAS PARTICULARLY PRONE TO TUBERCULOSIS, THE REASON FOR THAT, THEY HAD TOO MUCH INDIGENOUS BLOOD AND TOO FAR REMOVED FROM CIVILIZATION, THAT MADE THEM SUSCEPTIBLE FOR TUBERCULOSIS. SO DAVENPORT IS DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR COLLAPSING A SUSCEPTIBLE TO AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE PART OF A RACIAL DEFICIENCY. SO THIS IS THE SORT OF SCRUTINIZING OF THE MYTHOLOGIES, I SAID DAVENPORT WILL DEBUNK SOME OF THESE MIGS, BUT HE KIND OF REPLACES THEM, I THINK, ARE WITH VERY MUCH IDEAS ABOUT MIXED RACE PEOPLE OF BEING POTENTIAL BURDENS IN MEDICINE. SO THERE IS ALSO ATTENTION TO MIXED RACE PEOPLE'S FEATURES WHICH AGAIN WE LOOK TO THE 18th CENTURY AND FIND THIS OBSESSION WITH FEATURES OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE. AGAIN, WE CAN THINK ABOUT EDWARD LONG WHO AT THE 18th CENTURY PLANTER AND PROVIDED THIS VERY DETAIL VIEW OF MULATTO FEATURES. THEY ARE THE WHITE THAN THE BLACK. THE HAIR HAD A NATURAL CURL, IT RESEMBLES THE NEGRO FLEECE. BUT IT IS A TOLERABLE LENGTH. YOU MIGHT THINK THAT IS TRIVIAL, AND LONG BEING STRANGE AND OBSESSIVE. BUT DAVENPORT DILIGENTLY STUDIED MIXED RACE PEOPLE HAIR. AT THE APS, I HAVE BEEN LOOKING THROUGH THE EUGENIC OFFICE PAPERS HOUSED THERE, THE EUGENIC RECORDS OFFICE WAS STARTED BY DAVENPORT IN 1910. WE ACTUALLY HAVE, THERE ARE FAMILY PEDIGREES. AND PEOPLE BRINGING IN SPECIMENS AND SHARING INFORMATION OF THEIR FAMILY WITH THAT OFFICE. I LOCATED HEAR SAMPLES. THESE ARE SO-CALLED MULATTO HAIR SAMPS. HAIR SAMPLES. THIS IS FROM A FAMILY THAT RESIDED IN JAMAICA IN THE PARISH OF ST. AN, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF THEY VOLUNTEERED TO SEND IT TO THE OFFICE, THIS IS IN NEW YORK. SO, I'M WONDERING ABOUT SORT OF THE STORY, HOW THESE SAMPLES GOT INTO THE ERO. GOT INTO DAVENPORT'S HANDS. BUT I SHOULD SAY THAT IN THE HEREDITY OF SKIN COLOR THERE IS A WHOLE SECTION DEDICATED TO MULATTO HAIR. SO DAVENPORT REALLY DRAWS ATTENTION TO WHAT HE SEES SORT OF TIM. TYPICAL FEATURES. SO, HE WANTED TO KNOW HOW FAR IS THE NEGRO SKIN PIGMENT WITH THE ABSENCE OF OTHER NEGRO CHARACTERISTICS. AND THERE ARE TWO ITEMS WITH DARK PIGMENTATION OF THE OFFSPRING OF THE NEGRO. COLOR OF THE HAIR AND FORM OF THE HAIR OR DEGREE OF CURVING. SO HE SAYS THAT THE ASSOCIATION IS ACCIDENT . HE'LL DOES KEEP REFERRING TO KINKY OR WOOLLY HAIRLINE AS A TYPICAL NEGRO TRAIT AND APPLIES THAT TERM THROUGHOUT HIS RESEARCH. SO YOU CAN SEE HERE, FOR EXAMPLE, HE LISTS A DAUGHTER WHO HAS CURLY, BUT NOT AT ALL KINKY HAIR, IF A WHITE MAN HAD A SON. SHE ACCESSING AND USING THE TERMINOLOGIES TO DESCRIBE THE DIFFERENT KIND OF POPULATIONS, THESE DIFFERENT KIND OF RACIAL CROSSES. AT THE BOTTOM, A SON WITH A COMPLETION, AND A DEEPLY TANNED SKIN, AND BLACK HAIR WHICH WAS A TRACE OF A TENDENCY TO CURL. IT IS ALMOST AS IF IT IS, THESE ARE THE TRAITS THAT COULD GIVE AWAY AFRICAN DESCENT WHO MAY NOT APPEAR TO BE, WHO MIGHT BE VERY LIGHT SKINNED AND TRY TO PASS, FOR EXAMPLE. SO HE'S LOOKING AT FEATURES. BUT HE IS ALSO LOOKING AT INTELLIGENCE. SO I SHOULD SAY MULATTO, THAT THERE WAS DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY A VIEW THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE WERE OF INTERMEDIATE INTELLIGENCE. SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT A RACIAL HIERARCHY HAVING WHITES AT THE TOP, MIXED RACE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE, AND THEN BLACK PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM. THIS IS A VERY SORT OF COMMON BELIEF IN SLAVERY SOCIETIES. WHAT DAVENPORT WANTS TO DO IS REALLY INTERROGATE THIS IDEA, ARE MIXED RACE PEOPLE MORE INTELLIGENT? ARE THEY REALLY SORT OF THE MIDDLE? AND WHAT HE DOES IS HE ACTUALLY DISAGREES WITH THIS. THIS IDEA. BUT, ACTUALLY KIND OF INTERESTING HOW HE DOES SO. SO FIRST LET ME JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. IF WE LOOK AT AN 1852 PUBLICATION ON AGRICULTURAL AND INDUSTRY IN THE SOUTH. WE FIND THE WRITERS IF APPEARS THAT THE MIXED RACE EXHIBITS POWERS MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO CULTIVATION THAN THE PURE AFRICAN. NOW, I SHOULD SAY THAT IS IN THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES. WE ALSO HAVE A DATA FROM THE CARIBBEAN. SO IF WE THINK THE WAYS PLANTERS AND ESTATE MANAGERS WOULD UNTRUST ENCLAVED MULATTOS FOR SKIN AND INTELLIGENCE. SO THERE IS AN IDEA THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE ARE MORE INTELLIGENT AND CAN DO SKILLED AND INTENSE WORK. DAVENPORT IS NOT HAVING ANY OF THIS. SO IF WE LOOK AT RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA, HE DOES CONCEDE THAT MIXED RACE PEOPLE SEEM TO SCORE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER ON THEIR INTELLIGENCE TEST THAN BLACK PEOPLE. BUT THEY HAD TOO MUCH VARIATION. WHAT HE SAYS, AND HERE I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU A SENSE, WHEN SHE DOING HIS NOTES, FROM THE APS, THE NOTES ON RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA. NASAL BREATH, THE COLOR OF THE PERSON, THE HAIR FORM, HE SAYS THIS PERSON FULL BLACK, WHAT ARE THE NOSE, EYES, LIP SHAPE, AND THEN AT THE BOTTOM WHERE THAT BOX IS, KNOCK MORON TEST SUMMARY IN AIRMAIL ALPHA TEST. THOSE ARE THE INTELLIGENCE TEST HE USED IN RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA TO ASSESS THE INTELLIGENCE OF MIXED RACE PEOPLE. THESE ARE THE NOTES AND THEN HAVE THE DIFFERENT FIGURED IN THE PUBLISHED STUDY. SO AS HE SORT OF TRYING TO TAKE AIM AT THIS IDEA OF INNATE, AND INTERMEDIATE INTELLIGENCE, HE BASICALLY CLAIMS THIS WILD VARIATION IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE OF RACE CROSSING. HE WRITES, QUOTE, WHITES SCORE HIGHER THAN THE BLACKS AND THE BROWNS SCORED AN INTERMEDIATE SCORE. BUT A STUDY OF THE DISTRIBUTION SHOW THAT MANY CASES, 5% OF THE BROWNS RECEIVED LOWER SCORES THAN THE BLACKS OR WHITES. AND IT IS NOT WITH THE CHANCE INCLUSION OF THE BROWNS WITH SOME INDIVIDUALS OF UNUSUALLY LOW INTELLIGENCE, RATHER AMONG THE VARIOUS BROWN ARE SOME INDIVIDUALS WHO FIND THEMSELVES QUITE ABOUT AIL TO MAKE A START ON CERTAIN MENTAL TESTS. THERE ARE FEWER FULL BLOODED BLACKS THAT SHOW COMPLETE CAPACITY. AND THE BROWNS TO THE HYBRID NATURE END QUOTE. SO HE IS LITERALLY SAYING IT IS BECAUSE OF MIXED RACE, THERE IS HARMONY IN THE CROSS. IN FACT, HE BASICALLY GOES ON TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THERE, HE ASKS THE QUESTION, AND HE ANSWERS THIS QUITE CLEARLY. HE SAYS IS THERE ANY GROUND FOR THE ALLEGED INFERIORITY TO BROWNS TO BLACKS. HYBRIDS ARE THE FEAR YEAR EITHER PARENTAL STALK. THE BROWN IS CONTRASTED WITH THE BLACK AND HE MAY BE STUPID AND LAZY, BUT CAN BE DEPENDED UPON TO ACT IN HIS OWN WAY. SO, THIS GROUP, WE ALREADY HAD VERY LOW EXPECTATIONS OF THEM, BUT THE BROWNS ARE ALL OVER THE VASE. THIS IS A SIGN OF WHY THIS HYBRID GROUP IS A PROBLEM. SO AGAIN, THIS IS ALL, MUCH OF THIS IS IN RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA, THIS IS THE PUBLISHED STUDY. WHAT WE SEE HERE, HE IS VERY MUCH, AS I SAID, SKEPTICAL OF THIS IDEA OF MULATTO INTELLIGENCE. I WILL SAY THAT OTHER AMERICAN SCIENTISTS, SOCIOLOGISTS, ACTUALLY BELIEVED IN THE IDEA OF MUA LOTO INTELLIGENCE. SO DAVENPORT IS AGAIN KIND OF STANDING ALONE HERE. SO WE CAN THINK ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE AMERICAN AGRICULTURALIST AND STRONG ADVOCATE OF COMPULSORY STERILIZATION, PAUL, WHO IN HIS 1918 EUGENICS TEXTS BASICALLY SAID THAT THE HIGH SCHOLARLY ATTAINMENT OF MULATTO CHILDREN COMPARISON TO THEIR BLACK COUNTERPARTS, CONFIRMS THAT THE ABILITY OF A COLORED MAN IS THE PROMOTION TO THE AMOUNT OF WHITE BLOOD THEY HAVE. END QUOTE. SO YOU HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THIS. ALL OF THESE ARE DECIDEDLY ANTIBLACK AND THEY ARE STEAMED IN RACISM. BUT DAVENPORT IS SAYING THEY ARE NOT MORE INTELLIGENCE, AND ANOTHER COMMENTER SAYING THEY ARE MORE INTELLIGENT, BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE BLOOD IN THEM. I WANT TO MOVE AHEAD THERE. IS SO MUCH TO TELL YOU, I WANT TO KIND OF CONCLUDE HERE. BECAUSE WHAT I'M TRYING TO SHOW YOU AND PAINT A PICTURE HERE FOR YOU OF THE WAYS IN WHICH IDEAS THAT WERE LINGERING IN SLAVERY KIND OF SHOW UP AND INFORM THE MIXED RACE PEOPLE'S BODIES. WHETHER IT IS THEIR FEATURES, THEIR VITALITY, AND THEN THEIR INTELLIGENCE. SO TO CONCLUDE MANY OF THE CONSTELLATIONS OF WHAT INCLUDED BLACKNESS OF ONE'S BIOLOGIST WAS BASICALLY DEVELOPED DURING THE ERA OF SLAVERY. THEY CONTINUED TO FLOURISH AFTER THE INSTITUTIONS DEMISE. AND THESE IDEAS SHOWED REMARKABLY INSURANCE. BUT ENEAGER CASE, THEY WERE THE SCAVALLED FOR BUILDING EUGENIC LOGIC ABOUT RACIAL PURITY AND FITNESS. THESE IDEAS ENDURED BUT THEY ALSO REPRESENTED PART OF THE ETHOS REPRESENTING SPECIFIC CHARACTERISTICS AND GROUP OF PEOPLE AND COMPARING THEM FOR OR GROUPS WITH UNDERSTANDING WEAKNESS AND STRENGTH. THIS I WOULD ARGUE IS A SHARED FEATURE OF EUGENIC AND SLAVERY. AND SLAVERY OF SOUNDNESS AND FITNESS OF BLACK PEOPLE'S BODY TO RAABE. THOSE ASSUMPTIONS CHANGED WHEN SLAVERY ENDED. AND THE REALITY OF RACIAL MIXTURE CAME OUT AS A AN OPEN SECRET IT WAS DEEMED A PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM. SO EUGENICS WAS INVESTED IN MAKING LEGIBLE THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF DIFFERENT KIND OF BODIES OF THEIR INHERITED TRAITS AND ONE OF THE LASTING CONSEQUENCES OF SLAVERY IS BLACKNESS AT A PHENOTYPIC TRAIT. AND DAVENPORT AND OTHERS SEIZED UPON THIS LOGIC. AND RACE CROSSING STUDY SHARED A PATHOLOGIZE BLACK PEOPLE'S BODY. AND WE CAN THING OF THE MULATTO BODY AS A VERY PREDICTABLE COROLLARY. SO I WANTED TO JUST SAY THAT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHAT COMES OUT OF RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA, HE NOTES THE FEAR OF THE PASS FOR WHITES. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT COULD WEAVE THROUGH, MOVE THROUGH THE COLOR LINE AND POSSIBLY TAINT THE WHITE RACE. SO DAVENPORT REFINED AND REPACKAGED WHITE SUPREMACIST IDEAS BY THE DISAMONIOUS RESULTS. HE MAY HAVE CORRECTED THE PERCEPTIONS ABOUT MIXED RACE PEOPLE, THAT WAS NOT OUT OF A DESIRE TO RIGHT PASTS WRONGS. DAVENPORT HAD THE IMAGE OF THE MULATTO TOKING A DANGEROUS, MENTALLY INFERIOR HYBRID AT THE DAWN OF THE 20th CENTURY. HE RENDERED THEM A CLASS OF PEOPLE THAT COULD CUROPOUS WHITE RACIAL 40TY AND DRAG DOWN THE WHITE RACE. THANK YOU. >> JEFFERY: DR. RANA HOGARTH, THANK YOU, FANTASTIC TALK. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT HAVE COME IN. AND THE FIRST ONE IS CAN YOU CHARACTERIZE THE TRANSMISSION OF ENDURING OUR CHANGING IDEAS OF EUGENICS IN THE PROFESSIONAL LITERATURE. AND HOW ACCESSIBLE HAVE YOU FOUND THAT HISTORICAL PROFESSIONAL LITERATURE TO BE? >> DR. HOGARTH: SO, SORRY, CAN YOU JUST REPEAT THAT. I WANT TO TRY TO WRITE DOWN THE QUESTION. >> JEFFERY: SURE, CAN YOU CHARACTERIZE THE TRANSITION OF ENDURING OR CHANGING IDEAS OF EUGENICS IN PROFESSIONAL LITERATURE IN THE PROFESSIONAL LITERATURE AND HOW ACCESSIBLE THAT HISTORICAL PROFESSIONAL LITERATURE BEEN TO YOU? >> DR. HOGARTH: OKAY. SO, YEAH, CERTAINLY. YOU CAN FIND THIS, THESE TRANSMISSIONS IN SORT OF THE LITERATURE. SO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. I SHOULD KIND OF LAY THIS OUT. I HAVE BEEN LOOKING THROUGH PUBLICATIONS ABOUT RACE AND ABOUT FITNESS, SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT THIS PERIOD FROM 1900, TO 1910s, WHAT I HAVE BEEN FINDING, I WILL FIND A REFERENCE, RIGHT? FOR EXAMPLE, I WILL SEE LIKE GOULD OR BACTER. WHAT IS THIS, I WRITE IT DOWN, THESE ARE THE ARMY ANTHROPOLOGIST STUDIES, RIGHT? AND SO I'M LIKE, OKAY, WHAT ARE THEY STUDYING? THEY ARE MAKING REFERENCES TO INNATE RACIAL DIFFERENCES. SO I THINK TO THINK ABOUT, OKAY, THIS IS ESTABLISH IN 1915 CITING THIS 1869 STUDY. SO I'M ACTUALLY TRYING TO COMPILE AND AMASS A PAPER TRIAL AND CONNECT THE DOTS BACKWARDS. SO I STARTED JUST AS FIRST READING THE EUGENIC -- YOU READ PAUL, YOU READ DAVENPORT, YOU MAY READ -- ALL OF THESE KINDS OF CLAIMS ABOUT INNATE DIFFERENCES AND SO-CALLED INFERIOR RACES. I JUST REALLY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, OKAY, WHAT MADE THEM INFERIOR? WHO INSPIRED THIS? IT DIDN'T JUST FALL OUT OF THE SKY. YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT IMMIGRATION IS SOMETHING THAT IS DRIVING THIS, BUT WHAT I DID EVEN WITH THE FIRST BOOK WAS TO KIND OF REALLY UNDERSTAND THE PAPER TRAIL AND THE CULTURE OF CITATION AND THE IDEA OF RELYING ON THE SENSE OF THIS IS OBJECTIVE. I'M FOLLOWING IN THE FOOT STEPS OF OTHER ELITE TRAINED MEN, THEY ARE MOSTLY MEN, COMING UP WITH THIS DATA. SO IT IS VERY EASY FOR ME, ACTUALLY, TO START WITH SOME OF THESE PUBLISHED TREATISES AND -- ARTICLES, SEE WHAT THEY FOOTNOTES ARE. GO BACK AND SAY, OKAY, THESE ARE SOME OF THE PUBLISHED DOCUMENTS FROM EARLIER. BUT WHAT IS REALLY BEEN FASCINATING IS TO GO INTO THE ARCHIVE AND LOOK AT THE MANUSCRIPTS YOU CAN REALLY SEE THE MESSINESS HOW THEY GOT TO THAT PUBLISHED THING. SO, RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA, ONE CAN ACCESS THIS. THE MILITARY STUDIES, ONE CAN ACCESS THIS DIGITALLY AND READ THEM. BUT IT IS INTERESTING, YOU CAN LOOK AT A QUESTIONNAIRE THAT WAS OFFERED TO MILITARY PHYSICIANS DURING CIVIL WAR WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE SOMETHING CALLED A NEGRO QUESTIONNAIRE. THAT IS A MANUSCRIPT SOURCE THAT IS HELD ELSEWHERE. I'M FOLLOWING UP ON. YOU CAN SEE THE TRANSITION OF THE KNOWLEDGE. IT IS VERY MUCH THERE IN THE PUBLICATION. I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE MESSINESS AND PROCESS BEHIND THIS IN THE ANTHROPOLOGY WORK. THANK YOU. >> JEFFERY: THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SOMEONE ELSE HAS WRITTEN IN, NOT A QUESTION, BUT AN OBSERVATION AND THANKS. I WAS TAUGHT IN THE 8th GRADE IN THE 1980s, THIS PERSON SPECIFIES THAT'S BIRACIAL PEOPLE COULD NOT REPRODUCE, EXCLAMATION POINT. I INFORMED THE TEACHER THAT MY GRANDMOTHER WAS BIRACIAL AND CLEARLY HAD MY MOTHER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK, I APPRECIATE YOU. >> DR. HOGARTH: THANK YOU FOR THAT COMMENT. I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT, TOO. YOU WOULD THINK THAT THIS IDEA WOULD BE NONSENSE, IT OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE CONSIDERING WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAS. BUT THE FACT THAT EUGENICISTS SAID WE SHOULD LOOK INTO AND ARE REALLY USING, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG WITH THEM IS SOMETHING I COULD NOT JUST IGNORE, WHEN I STARTED THIS RESEARCH. >> JEFFERY: UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN QUESTIONS COME IN VERY QUICKLY. PARDON ME. THANK YOU FOR THIS ENLIGHTENING TALK. THIS PERSON WRITES IN. DAVENPORT DIED IN 1944. JUST AS INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE ARMY WERE ON THE CUSP OF DESEGREGATING AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS GETTING STARTED. THE QUESTION IS, DID DAVENPORT COMMENT ON THESE TRENDS TOWARD THE END OF HIS LIFE AND TRY TO INFLUENCE POLICY OR POLITICS? >> DR. HOGARTH: OH, THAT'S A REALLY GREAT QUESTION. ACTUALLY, I CONFESS I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE REALLY SPENT HIS LATER PART OF HIS LIFE IN TERMS OF HIS POLICY AGENDA. I DO KNOW THAT HE ACTUALLY MEASURED BLACK SOLDIERS IN MUCOOKIE IN THE NOTs AND 40s. I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR, DAVENPORT DID NOT SEE HIM LIKE A MADISON GRANT FIGURE. LIKE HE DID NOT SEE HIMSELF LIKE THIS FIRE BRAND, I'M JUST GOING TO SPEW THIS KIND OF VERY CLEARLY RACIST NONSENSE. DAVENPORT TRULY SAW HIMSELF AS A SCIENTIST SAYING OKAY, THESE PEOPLE HAVE SOME POSITIVE ATTRIBUTES TO THEM AND THEY CAN THRIVE IN THESE KINDS OF CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO EVER ACHIEVE MORE THAN THAT. SO HE A VERY SPECIFIC KIND OF RACIST APPROACH THAT HE WAS USING THAT WAS UNDER GURRING HIS SCIENCE. SO I DON'T KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN, HE WAS CERTAINLY OPPOSED TO RACIAL MIXING AND INTER MARRIAGE, BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW HE WOULD COME DOWN ON THE IDEA OF DESEGREGATION. BUT THAT IS A REALLY GREAT QUESTION. SOMETHING I WILL THINK OF. >> JEFFERY: THANK YOU. ANOTHER QUESTION, HAVE YOU COMPARED THESE EUGENIC IDEAS ON WHITE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE MIXING TO ANTHROPOLOGICAL IDEAS ON WHITE NATIVE AMERICAN MISCEGENATION? ARE THERE SIMPLY TAIZ ARE THERE SIM -- SIMILARITIES OR DIFFERENCES? HOW DO THESE IDEAS CHANGE OVER TIME. >> DR. HOGARTH: THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. ONE, I JUST STARTED TO DIG MY TOES INTO UNDERSTANDING THE VARIOUS WAYS THAT THESE KIND OF SCIENTISTS APPROACHED RACE MIXING. THEY DID NOT HAVE A UNIFORM VIEW. SO I SHOULD SAY THAT LESLIE DID WORK, NATIVE HAWAI'IANS AND MIXING WITH PEOPLE OF ASIAN DESCENT AND DIDN'T COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT DAVENPORT SAID. I WILL SAY WHAT DAVENPORT DID DO, I HAVE THIS STACK OF PAPERS FROM THE APS. HE QUERIED OTHER SCIENTISTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR RACIALLY MIXED PEOPLE, YOUR HYBRIDS, WHAT ARE THEY LIKE? SO, HE HAS DATA FROM SO CALL CROSSES OF DUTCH AND JAPANESE PEOPLE. AND INTERESTING IDEAS. HE HAS COLLECTED HIS DATA. SO I SENSE THAT HE IS INTERESTED IN THIS AS A GLOBAL PHENOMENA, WITH RESPECT TO THE UNITED STATES AND/OR INDIGENOUS GROUPS, THERE IS CERTAINLY THIS IDEA THAT CERTAIN INDIGENOUS GROUPS ARE SORT OF VIEWED AS BEING PRIMITIVE AND COULD POSSIBLY BE UPLIFTED IN SOME WAY, THERE ARE ALSO EVENTS THEY WILL BE EXTINCT, SO COMPETING NARRATIVES ABOUT INDIGENOUS BODIES. SOMETHING THAT I FIND QUITE FASCINATING. I LOOK, THIS IS WORK OF ANDERSON, HE LOOKS AT MIXING OF ABORIGINALS IN AUSTRALIA WITH WHITE PEOPLE. YOU COULD BREED THE ABORIGINAL. SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES, I KNOW THERE IS A TENSION ABOUT HOW CERTAIN INDIGENOUS GROUP BODIES AND MIXTURES WITH WHITE ARE BEING VIEWED AND TALKED ABOUT. SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I'M HOPING TO ATTEND MORE TO. BUT I JUST TO JUST BE VERY CLEAR, IT IS NOT A UNIFORM APPROACH. IN TERMS OF WHICH RACE. GROUPS ARE CONSIDERED DEFICIENT AND WHICH ONE FOR IS POTENTIAL FOR AND WHICH ONE IS HOPELESS. BUT THANKS FOR THIS QUESTION. IT IS AN EXCELLENT ONE. >> JEFFERY: THANK YOU. ANOTHER PERSON HAS WRITTEN IN. GREAT PRESENTATION. I-- THE EUGENICS RECORDS OFFICE AS I UNDERSTAND IT, RELIED HEAVILY ON NEED VOLUNTEERS. HAVE YOU NOTICED, YET, ANY INCONSISTENCIES IN THEIR SOCIETY IN QUOTES OF GATHERING DATA. I'M ESPECIALLY CURIOUS HOW THIS WOULD APPLY TO BLACK AMERICANS AND SO-CALLED MULATTOS? END QUOTES. >> DR. HOGARTH: RIGHT. THIS IS REALLY GREAT. SO WHAT I HAVE ARE THE NOTES WHICH I HAVE TO KIND OF GO THROUGH THESE. THE HAHN WRITTEN NOTES FROM THE FIELD WORKERS. BUT I HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND COMPARE AND IF THEY ARE USING UNIFORM NOTETAKING. BECAUSE I DO KNOW THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT RACE CROSSING IN JAMAICA AND THE HEREDITY OF SKIN COLOR, THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE DAVENPORT WILL SAY, OH, THIS IS AN INCONSISTENT READING, THAT IS DUE TO ERRORS OF FIELDWORK. THAT IS DUE TO THE SUBJECTIVITIES THAT HAPPEN. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THIS IS SUCH AN EXCELLENT QUESTION, NOT ONLY WILL THERE BE DIFFERENCES HOW THE RESEARCHERS ARE GOING TO RECORDING THINGS AND BEING UNIFORMED ON WHAT THEY'RE SEEING, BUT SOME OF THE TOOLS THEY USE, THE COLOR TOP, THAT WAS INITIALLY MARKED BY MILTON BRADLEY, BUT REPURPOSED FOR SKIN COLOR, YOU PUT THE DISKS OF COLOR AND SPIN TOWARDS THE PERSON'S ARM. AND THE RESEARCHER EYEBALLS IT. SO THERE IS SO MUCH OBJECTIVITY. SO ONE OF THE THINGS I'M HOPI TO DO WHEN I GO BACK TO THE APS IS LOOK AT THE ERO NOTES ON THE DESCRIPTIONS, THE SHORTHAND, AND THE NOTATIONS AND SEE IF THERE WAS YOU NORMITY ACROSS ALL OF THIS RAW DATA COLLECTION AND SO HOW THAT'S THEN GOT TRANSLATED INTO THE BODY OF WORK. THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. THANK YOU. >> JEFFERY: THANK YOU. SOMEONE ELSE HAS WRITTEN IN WITH THIS QUESTION. COULD YOU SAY MORE ABOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE MILITARY IN SUPPORTING EUGENICS RESEARCH? WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MILITARY INDUSTRY, SCIENCE, AND DEFENSE THAT WOULD PROMPT THE SEEMINGLY STRANGE COMBINATION OF ARMY ANTHROPOLOGISTS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. >> DR. HOGARTH: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION. AND SO I THINK HAPPILY, SOMEBODY HAS SORT OF DONE, I THINK, A LITTLE OF THIS WORK. SO PAUL HAS LOOKED AT MEASUREMENTS PARTICULARLY FOCUSING ON THE MILITARY MEASUREMENT AND SORT OF PROGRESSIVE ERA FEARS ABOUT LABOR. AND WHICH BODIES CAN WORK AND WHICH BODIES ARE DEFISHIN' AT WORK. AND SO WHAT YOU FIND IS I SEE THIS KIND OF A BIT OPPORTUNISTIC. RIGHT? IF YOU HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SAY WE HAVE THIS THIS MEN. AND COLLECT THE DATA ON THEM, AND GENERALIZE AND MAKE BROAD SYSTEMS ABOUT WHAT KIND OF WORK THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY, IT KIND OF DOES MAKE SENSE. SO, PAUL ACTUALLY LOOKS AT A LOT OF ARMY DATA ON BLACK MEN AND MIXED RACE MEN, TO SHOW THERE IS AN VERY, OKAY, ARE THEY GOING TO WORK? AND WHAT KIND OF WORK. ARE THEY FIT AND CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY. SO, THERE IS AN INDUSTRIAL PROGRESSIVE CONCERN ABOUT HAVING PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS AND PARTICULARLY THINKING ABOUT HOW ARE THESE PEOPLE OF THIS RACE, RIGHT? THIS SO-CALLED INFERIOR RACE, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY. AND AM MILITARY STUDIES MAKE PERFECT SENSE. AND FOR GOULD, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SANITARY COMMISSION AND THE ABOUT PUBLISHED DATA. MEDICAL OFFICERS WERE SPYING ON THE MEN AS THEY WERE BATHING NAKED TO GET AS MUCH INFORMATION, BECAUSE SOME OF THE MEN SAID NO, I DO NOT WANT TO BE MEASURED IN THIS WAY. SO THEY WERE REALLY TRYING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LARGE N, RIGHT OF THESE DIFFERENT KINDS OF MEN. THEY COULD START TO SORT OF AVERAGE AND TAB A LOT FOR FUTURE USE. AND THERE IS A CERTAIN ABOUT DEFECT. SO WHAT DAVENPORT DID, WITH WORLD WAR I, WHAT ARE THE PHYSICAL DEFECTS, THE PROBLEMS THAT'S WE'RE NOTICING IN SOME OF THE RECRUITS, IS ONE RACIAL GROUP HAVING MORE OF THE PROBLEMS. YEAH, THIS SERVED A WHOLE VARIETY OF PURPOSES. BUT YEAH, THAT IS A REALLY GREAT QUESTION. AND PAUL'S WORK, IS QUITE GOOD. THAT MIGHT OFFER MORE IN-DEPTH INFORMATION. >> JEFFERY: THANK YOU. ONE FINAL QUESTION BEFORE WE CONCLUDE THIS AFTERNOON. WITH RESPECT OF YOUR TIME. THANK YOU FOR THIS VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION. I HAVE LEARNED A LOT MORE ABOUT EUGENICS. DO YOU THINK EUGENICS INFLUENCED HOW BLACK PEOPLE VIEWED EACH OTHER DURING SLAVERY? HOUSE SLAVE VERSUS FIELD SLAVE AND COLORISM THAT CONTINUES TO PERSIST IN BLACK POPULATIONS TODAY? >> DR. HOGARTH: GREAT QUESTIONS. I CAN SPEAK MORE ABOUT COLOR. ALL. SO I DON'T KNOW, SO A LOT OF THE DATA WE HAVE ON FIELD AND HOUSE SLAVES ARE OFTEN GIVEN THROUGH WHITE -- PEOPLE, SO YOU VUTO KIND OF READ THROUGH THAT AND SEE HOW MUCH THAT IS TRUE AND HOW MUCH IS BEING PROJECTED. BUT COLORISM, YES, IT IS REAL. SO COLORISM CONTINUES TO BE A PROBLEM. IT IS A PROBLEM THEN AND NOW. I DID NOT MENTION THIS IN THE TALK, THERE IS THIS IDEA OF WHAT FEATURES ARE CONSIDERED TO BE POSITIVE FEATURES OR WHICH PEOPLE ARE MEANT TO BE THE ONES WHO WILL UPLIFT THE RACE. IN AND MANY CASES, THIS DOES HAPPEN TO BE LIGHTER-SKINNED OR MIXED RACE PEOPLE, IN TERMS OF HAVING THE OPPORTUNITIES OR BEING SELF UFPOINTED RACE MEN, AND RACE WOMEN LEADERS. RIGHT? SO, MUCH OF WHAT I DO DOES TAP INTO THIS. SO SPECIFICALLY, MICHELLE MITCHELL'S WORK, A RIGHTEOUS PROPAGATION TALKS ABOUT THE ASPIRATIONS AND CONCERNS WITHIN AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE GOING TO BE THE LEADERS OF THE RACE? WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FIT WHO CAN SORT OF UP LIFT EVERYONE? AND IT IS VERY MUCH FALLS ALONG THIS KIND OF COLORREST LINE. THERE ARE WAYS IN WHICH -- YOU KNOW, IN LOOKING AT ITERATIONS OF LAKE WHO CAN PASS OR WHAT FEATURES ARE CONSIDERED TO BE FAVORITE, THERE IS A LINE FROM CAROLYN'S RESEARCH AND SHE NOTES, YOU KNOW, THE YOUNG GIRL'S HAIR IS FRIZZY, IT IS ALMOST KINKY, AND SHE'S VERY SENSITIVE ABOUT IT. AND THIS IS HER INTERVIEWING, SO CAROLYN, BEING A MIXED RACE WOMAN, SHE IS TAPPING INTO THE FACT WITHIN THE FAMILIES SHE IS INTERVIEWING AND TAKING TO, WHO ASK FOR UNANIMITY, MY HAIR IS NOT STRAIGHT OR KINGIER OR CURLIER THAN OR MEMBERS OF MAY FAMILY. SO COLOR. ALL IS PRESENT IN ALL OF THE DISCOURSES, FOR WHITE EUGENIC AND FOR BLACK SCIENTISTS INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE OF RACIAL FITNESS. >> JEFFERY: THAT IS FASCINATING. WELL, DR. RANA HOGARTH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR FILE THIS AFTERNOON. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING OUR SERIES. WE WISH YOU EVERY CONTINUED SUCCESS IN YOUR WORK. AND PLEASE KEEP IN TOUCH. WE LOOK FORWARD TO DOING SO. WELCOMING YOU BACK AT THE LIBRARY ONE DAY SOON WHEN WE REOPEN. ALL OF THE BEST TO YOU. THANK YOU, AGAIN FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. >> DR. HOGARTH: THANK YOU SO MUCH, THIS IS GREAT FUN. THANK YOU SO MUCH. TAKE CARE.