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OKAY.

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SHALL WE START?

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SO HELLO, WELCOME, EVERYONE.

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TO THIS EXCITING EVENT.

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A DISCUSSION OF THE BOOK, THE

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EXCEPTIONS, NANCY HOPKINS AND

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THE FIGHT FOR WOMEN IN SCIENCE.

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WITH KATE ZERNIKE, THE AUTHOR

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AND NANCY HOPKINS HERSELF, WE

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ARE SO PRIVILEGED.

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I AM JUDY WALTERS AND I'VE BEEN

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ASKED TO START US OFF BY GIVING

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YOU A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION

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ABOUT THE GROUPS THAT HAVE

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ORGANIZED AND SPONSORED THIS

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IMPRESSIVE EVENT.

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THEY INCLUDE THE PORTER BOOK

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CLUB, THE WOMEN SCIENTISTS

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ADVISORS AND THE WOMEN

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SCIENTISTS FELLOWS COMMITTEE.

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I'M DELIGHTED TO TALK ABOUT

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THESE GROUPS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN A

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RESEARCHER AT NIH AND NINDS FOR

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OVER 50 YEARS NOW, AND CURRENTLY

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A SCIENTIST EMERITI, AND AS I GO

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BACK TO A TIME AT NIH WELL

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BEFORE WHEN THESE ORGANIZATIONS

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CAME INTO BEING, I CAN REALLY

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APPRECIATE AND VOUCH FOR WHAT

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THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED AND

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CONTRIBUTED TO LIFE AT NIH.

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THE OLDEST OF THESE, THE WOMEN

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SCIENTISTS ADVISORS, WAS FORMED

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IN 1993 IN RESPONSE TO

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RECOMMENDATIONS OF A TASK FORCE

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ESTABLISHED BY DR. BERNADINE

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HEALY, THE FIRST FEMALE DIRECTOR

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OF NIH.

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IT WAS ESTABLISHED TO EXAMINE

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THE STATUS OF INTRAMURAL WOMEN

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SCIENTISTS.

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THE WOMEN SIGN TU SCIENTIST ADVS

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COMMITTEE WAS FORMED BASED ON

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THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THIS TASK

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FORCE, AND IT IS MADE UP OF

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ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES OF

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TENURED WOMEN SCIENTISTS, ONE

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ELECTED FROM EACH OF THE NIH 27

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INSTITUTES OR CENTERS.

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IT'S CURRENTLY CHAIRED BY DIDI

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STORES, A RESEARCHER IN NICHD

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AND THE FUNCTION IS TO REPRESENT

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THE INTERESTS OF WOMEN

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SCIENTISTS AT THE NIH TO RAISE

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AWARENESS OF ISSUES FACING WOMEN

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SCIENTISTS, TO WORK TOWARD

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IMPROVING WOMEN REPRESENTATION

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OF THE NIH FACULTY AT ALL LEVELS

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AND I CAN TESTIFY THAT THE

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ORGANIZATION HAS ADVOCATED

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EFFECTIVELY FOR THE TENURED

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WOMEN AT NIH SINCE ITS

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BEGINNING.

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AT THE SAME TIME, OR A LITTLE

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BIT LATER, FELCOM, AN NIH

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FELLOWS COMMITTEE WAS ORGANIZED

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BY THE OFFICE OF INTRAMURAL

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TRAINING AND EDUCATION TO

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PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THE

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INTRAMURAL RESEARCH PROGRAM

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TRAINEES IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.

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AND VERY RECENTLY, A NEW YOUNG

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SUBCOMMITTEE OF FELCOM HAS BEEN

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FORMED IN LIAISON WITH THE WSA,

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THE WOMEN SCIENTISTS FELLOWS

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COMMITTEE, OR THE WSF.

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AND THIS WAS OFFICIALLY

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ESTABLISHED IN JUNE OF 2023, AND

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THE WOMEN SCIENTISTS FELLOWS

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COMMITTEE HAS PUT A LOT OF

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EFFORT INTO ORGANIZING THE

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EVENTS, THE TWO EVENTS TODAY.

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EVA HELLSBERG IS CO-FOUNDER AND

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CO-CHAIR OF WSF AND THE OTHER

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CO-CHAIR IS CAROLYN PUH FROM

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NICHD.

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THEY ALSO -- THE COMMITTEES

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LIAISON WITH WSA AND FELCOM.

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THE WSF COMMITTEE FOCUSES ON

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OUTREACH, SUPPORT, AND

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EMPOWERMENT TO WOMEN AND GENDER

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MINORITY FELLOWS WITHIN THE NIH

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AT THE POSTBACCALAUREATE

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GRADUATE POSTDOCTORAL CLINICAL

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AND RESEARCH FELLOW STAGES.

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IT AIMS TO PROVIDE A PLATFORM

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FOR EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION,

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KNOWLEDGE-SHARING, RESOURCE

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ACCESS AND FOSTERING A SENSE OF

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COMMUNITY.

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AND FINALLY, WITH RESPECT TO A

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LOT OF EFFORT GOING INTO THIS

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EVENT, I WANT TO MAKE A BIG

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SHOUT OUT TO THE PORTER BOOK

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CLUB, WHO WITH THE WSF

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COMMITTEE, HAS BEEN CRITICAL TO

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GET THIS EVENT ROLLING AND WILL

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BE MODERATING THE DISCUSSION IN

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THE PORTER BUILDING THIS

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AFTERNOON.

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THE PORTER BOOK CLUB IS AN

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INITIATIVE STEMMING FROM THE

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PORTER NEUROSCIENCE CENTERS

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USERS GROUP, WHOSE MANDATE, POST

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COVID ESPECIALLY, HAS BEEN TO

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CATALYZE INTERACTIONS BETWEEN

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THOSE OF US WITHIN THE PORTER

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NEUROSCIENCE BUILDING AND MORE

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BROADLY IN THE NIH NEUROSCIENCE

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COMMUNITY.

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AND AS PART OF THESE ONGOING

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EFFORTS, THE PORTER USERS GROUP

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CHAIRED BY DR. ALEX WESLER,

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STARTED THE PORTER BOOK CLUB TO

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INVITE AUTHORS OF POPULAR

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SCIENCE BOOKS TO COME TO THE NIH

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AND DISCUSS THEIR WORK.

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AND THE IDEA WAS THAT THIS WOULD

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BE A TYPE OF EVENT OPEN TO

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EVERYONE, REGARDLESS OF TRAINING

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OR SENIORITY, A NOVEL, PUN

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INTENDED, WAY OF TALKING ABOUT

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BIG PICTURE IDEAS THAT WE

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SOMETIMES NEGLECT WHEN WE ARE

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ALL OBSESSING OVER OUR

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SPECIALIZED SCIENTIFIC NICHES.

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SO LONG STORY SHORT, AFTER

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READING THE EXEMPTI PRESREADINGE

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KATE ZERNIKE AND NANCY HOPKINS

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TO COME TO NIH AND WE ARE

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DELIGHTED THAT THEY ACCEPTED.

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AND SO I WILL NOW HAND OVER THIS

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MEETING TO ISABELLA CERANOS, AN

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NIDCR POSTDOC WHO

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ENTHUSIASTICALLY TOOK UP HELPING

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CO-ORGANIZE THIS EVENT FOR THE

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WSF.

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SHE HAD DESIGNED THE APPEALING

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FLYER, AND PROVIDED THE

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ORGANIZATIONAL COMMITTEE WITH ON

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THE SPOT INPUT AND WILL

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INTRODUCE NANCY HOPKINS HERE

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TODAY.

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THANK YOU.

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[APPLAUSE]

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>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.

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MY NAME IS ISABELLA CISNEROS,

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POSTBACCALAUREATE FELLOW IN THE

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NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF CHILD

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HEALTH AND HUMAN DEVELOPMENT.

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TODAY I HAVE THE HONOR OF

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INTRODUCING DR. NANCY HOPKINS,

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AN INCREDIBLE SCIENTIST AND

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ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN IN SCIENCE.

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DR. HOPKINS' SCIENTIFIC CAREER

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BEGAN IN HER BIO 2 CLASSROOM

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WHERE SHE RAPIDLY FELL IN LOVE

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WITH DNA AND UD STANDING THE UNE

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QUESTION OF HOW GENES ARE TURNED

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ON OR OFF.

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SHE GRADUATED IN 1964 WITH A

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B.A. IN BIOLOGY AND WENT ON TO

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PURSUE HER PH.D. AT HARVARD

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UNIVERSITY.

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TOGETHER, SHE DISCOVERED A

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SEMINAL FINDING PUBLISHED IN

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NATURE.

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AFTER EARNING A PH.D. IN 1971

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SHE RECEIVED A PRESTIGIOUS

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FELLOWSHIP TO SUPPORT HER

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POSTDOCTORAL TRAINING WHERE SHE

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STUDIED DNA TUMOR VIRUSES WITH

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DR. JAMES WATSON AND DR. ROBERT

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POLLACK.

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IN 1973 SHE JOINED THE CENTER

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FOR CANCER RESEARCH AS ASSISTANT

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PROFESSOR, WHERE SHE SET OUT TO

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STUDY RNA TUMOR VIRUSES.

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SHE IDENTIFIED VIRAL GENES

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RESPONSIBLE FOR DETERMINING THE

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TYPE AND SEVERITY OF CANCER

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CAUSED BY MASS RETROVIRUSES.

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HOWEVER, AFTER 15 YEARS,

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DR. HOPKINS DISCOVERED A NEW

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INTEREST IN DEVELOPMENTAL

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BIOLOGY, AND PIVOTED TO

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DEVELOPING MOLECULAR TOOLS FOR

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ZEBRAFISH RESEARCH.

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USING LARGE SCALE INSERTIONAL

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MUTAGENESIS, HER LAB IDENTIFIED

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AND CLONED A QUARTER OF THE

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GENES NECESSARY FOR DEVELOPMENT.

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FURTHER ESTABLISHING THE

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ZEBRAFISH AS A MODEL FOR

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VERTEBRATE DEVELOPMENT AND

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CANCER BIOLOGY.

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CURRENTLY SHE'S THE ANGEN

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PROFESSOR OF BIOLOGY EMERITI AT

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M.I.T.

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SHE'S ALSO BEEN A STEADFAST

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ADVOCATE FOR GENDER EQUITY IN

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SCIENCE.

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00:08:16,567 --> 00:08:19,103
WHILE AT M.I.T., DR. HOPKINS AND

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OTHER WOMEN FACULTY STRUGGLED

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WITH DISCRIMINATION, WHETHER

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00:08:22,273 --> 00:08:23,274
BEING REMOVED FROM TEACHING

217
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COURSES OR NOT BEING GIVEN

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ENOUGH LAB SPACE TO DO THEIR

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RESEARCH.

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IN 1994, TOGETHER WITH 15 WOMEN

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FACULTY FROM THE SCHOOL OF

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SCIENCE, DR. HOPKINS DOCUMENTED

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THEIR EXPERIENCES AND PRESENTED

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THEIR FINDINGS IN A LETTER TO

225
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THE DEAN OF SCIENCE.

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THEIR ACTIONS LED TO THE

227
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ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COMMITTEE

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ON THE STATUS OF WOMEN FACULTY,

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WHOSE 1999 REPORT LAUNCHED A

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NATIONAL RECKONING WITH

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DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN IN

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SCIENCE.

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IN THE YEARS SINCE, DR. HOPKINS

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HAS CONTINUED TO ADVOCATE FOR

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EQUITY IN SCIENCE.

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MOST RECENTLY IN 2019, SHE AND

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HER COLLEAGUES FOUNDED THE

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00:08:56,374 --> 00:08:58,176
BOSTON BIOTECH WORKING GROUP, TO

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INCREASE WOMEN'S REPRESENTATION

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AS FOUNDERS AND BOARD MEMBERS OF

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00:09:01,646 --> 00:09:02,313
BIOTECH COMPANIES IN

242
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MASSACHUSETTS.

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00:09:03,848 --> 00:09:06,017
AND IF THAT WASN'T ENOUGH,

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DR. HOPKINS HAS ALSO BEEN THE

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RECIPIENT OF MANY AWARDS AND

246
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HONORS THROUGHOUT HER CAREER.

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SHE IS A MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN

248
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ACADEMY OF ARTS AND SCIENCES,

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THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF MEDICINE

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AND THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF

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SCIENCES.

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SHE HAS WON A NUMBER OF

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ACCOLADES INCLUDING THE PUBLIC

254
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WELFARE AWARD, WHICH SHE WAS

255
00:09:22,433 --> 00:09:23,735
AWARDED THIS YEAR IN RECOGNITION

256
00:09:23,735 --> 00:09:25,169
OF HER COURAGEOUS LEADERSHIP

257
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OVER THREE DECADES TO CREATE AND

258
00:09:27,238 --> 00:09:28,039
ENSURE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR

259
00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:29,841
WOMEN IN SCIENCE.

260
00:09:29,841 --> 00:09:31,409
WITH THAT, PLEASE JOIN ME IN

261
00:09:31,409 --> 00:09:33,111
GIVING A WARM WELCOME TO

262
00:09:33,111 --> 00:09:33,811
DR. NANCY HOPKINS.

263
00:09:33,811 --> 00:09:43,621
[APPLAUSE]

264
00:09:43,621 --> 00:09:46,557
I'LL NOW PASS IT OFF TO REMA TO

265
00:09:46,557 --> 00:09:52,363
INTRODUCE KATE ZERNIKE.

266
00:09:52,363 --> 00:09:53,664
>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

267
00:09:53,664 --> 00:09:55,967
MY NAME IS REMA, A GRADUATE

268
00:09:55,967 --> 00:10:01,639
STUDENT IN THE NIH JOHNS HOPKINS

269
00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:03,408
GRADUATE PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM AND

270
00:10:03,408 --> 00:10:06,277
CO-FOUNDER OF THE WOMEN'S GENDER

271
00:10:06,277 --> 00:10:07,245
MINORITY BOOK CLUB.

272
00:10:07,245 --> 00:10:09,580
I ALONG WITH EVA HELLSBERG AND

273
00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:12,216
JESSICA KEARNEY RECENTLY FOUNDED

274
00:10:12,216 --> 00:10:13,951
THIS BOOK CLUB TO PROMOTE GENDER

275
00:10:13,951 --> 00:10:14,986
EQUITY BY EXPLORING THE

276
00:10:14,986 --> 00:10:17,155
CHALLENGES FACED BY ALL GENDERS

277
00:10:17,155 --> 00:10:18,623
AND FOSTERING A SUPPORTIVE

278
00:10:18,623 --> 00:10:20,224
COMMUNITY AT NIH.

279
00:10:20,224 --> 00:10:22,026
WE COULDN'T HAVE CHOSEN A MORE

280
00:10:22,026 --> 00:10:24,062
FITTING BOOK TO LAUNCH OUR BOOK

281
00:10:24,062 --> 00:10:27,265
CLUB OTHER THAN KATE ZERNIKE'S

282
00:10:27,265 --> 00:10:27,632
THE EXCEPTIONS.

283
00:10:27,632 --> 00:10:29,200
IT IS MY HONOR TO INTRODUCE TO

284
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,968
YOU AN EXCEPTIONAL WOMAN

285
00:10:30,968 --> 00:10:32,937
HERSELF, KATE ZERNIKE, WHO IS A

286
00:10:32,937 --> 00:10:34,138
"NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER AND

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00:10:34,138 --> 00:10:36,541
AUTHOR OF THE INSPIRING YET

288
00:10:36,541 --> 00:10:38,409
INFURIATING STORY OF THE

289
00:10:38,409 --> 00:10:40,378
MARGINALIZATION OF WOMEN IN

290
00:10:40,378 --> 00:10:42,780
ACADEMIA, THE EXCEPTIONS.

291
00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:43,881
ZERNIKE EARNED HER BACHELORS IN

292
00:10:43,881 --> 00:10:45,283
ENGLISH AND HISTORY AT THE

293
00:10:45,283 --> 00:10:46,317
UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO AND A

294
00:10:46,317 --> 00:10:47,351
MASTER'S AT THE GRADUATE SCHOOL

295
00:10:47,351 --> 00:10:49,120
OF JOURNALISM AT COLUMBIA

296
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,121
UNIVERSITY.

297
00:10:50,121 --> 00:10:54,025
SHE STARTED HER CAREER IN 1992

298
00:10:54,025 --> 00:10:56,527
AS A GENERAL ASSIGNMENT AND

299
00:10:56,527 --> 00:10:57,862
EDUCATION BEAT REPORTER FOR THE

300
00:10:57,862 --> 00:10:59,197
PATRIOT LEDGER IN QUINCY,

301
00:10:59,197 --> 00:11:01,799
MASSACHUSETTS.

302
00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:03,167
NOT LONG AFTER, ZERNIKE ALSO

303
00:11:03,167 --> 00:11:06,737
REPORTED FOR THE BOSTON CLOAB O"

304
00:11:06,737 --> 00:11:08,639
ON K-12 EDUCATION, HIGHER

305
00:11:08,639 --> 00:11:10,241
EDUCATION AND SPECIAL PROJECTS.

306
00:11:10,241 --> 00:11:11,742
IN 2000, ZERNIKE BEGAN WORKING

307
00:11:11,742 --> 00:11:12,477
FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES,"

308
00:11:12,477 --> 00:11:15,580
REPORTING ON SUCH TOPICS SUCH AS

309
00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:16,814
EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE, AND THE

310
00:11:16,814 --> 00:11:17,648
OLYMPICS.

311
00:11:17,648 --> 00:11:19,717
DURING HER TIME HERE, ZERNIKE

312
00:11:19,717 --> 00:11:22,053
WAS ALSO PART OF AN

313
00:11:22,053 --> 00:11:24,155
INVESTIGATIONS TEAM WHICH WAS

314
00:11:24,155 --> 00:11:25,590
AWARDED THE PULITZER PRIZE IN

315
00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:27,625
2002 FOR EXPLANATORY REPORTING

316
00:11:27,625 --> 00:11:30,962
ON STORIES ABOUT AL QAEDA BEFORE

317
00:11:30,962 --> 00:11:33,164
AND AFTER THE 9/11 TERROR

318
00:11:33,164 --> 00:11:33,397
ATTACKS.

319
00:11:33,397 --> 00:11:35,633
SHE WOULD THEN GO ON TO WRITE

320
00:11:35,633 --> 00:11:38,102
BOILING MAD, BEHIND THE LINES IN

321
00:11:38,102 --> 00:11:39,637
TEA PARTY AMERICA, AN

322
00:11:39,637 --> 00:11:41,405
EXAMINATION OF THE RISE OF

323
00:11:41,405 --> 00:11:43,341
CONSERVATIVE ACTIVISM UNDER

324
00:11:43,341 --> 00:11:44,675
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S FIRST TERM.

325
00:11:44,675 --> 00:11:46,344
IN ADDITION TO BEING AN

326
00:11:46,344 --> 00:11:48,079
ACCOMPLISHED POLITICAL

327
00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:50,148
JOURNALIST, ZERNIKE IS ALSO NO

328
00:11:50,148 --> 00:11:52,116
STRANGER TO SCIENCE.

329
00:11:52,116 --> 00:11:53,217
ZERNIKE WAS RAISED IN A

330
00:11:53,217 --> 00:11:54,585
HOUSEHOLD WHERE BOTH HER FATHER

331
00:11:54,585 --> 00:11:57,155
AND GRANDFATHER ARE PHYSICISTS

332
00:11:57,155 --> 00:11:58,789
AND, FUN FACT, HER GRANDFATHER

333
00:11:58,789 --> 00:12:02,360
WON THE 1953 NOBEL PRIZE IN

334
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,029
PHYSICS FOR INVENTING THE PHASE

335
00:12:05,029 --> 00:12:06,230
CONTRAST MICROSCOPE.

336
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:08,199
HER UNIQUE EXPOSURE TO SCIENCE

337
00:12:08,199 --> 00:12:11,402
AS WELL AS HER JOURNALISTIC

338
00:12:11,402 --> 00:12:12,970
EXPERTISE AND HIGHER EDUCATION

339
00:12:12,970 --> 00:12:14,005
PROVIDES ZERNIKE THE IDEAL LENS

340
00:12:14,005 --> 00:12:16,841
TO WRITE ABOUT NANCY HOPKINS AND

341
00:12:16,841 --> 00:12:19,076
THE OTHER WOMEN SCIENTISTS AT

342
00:12:19,076 --> 00:12:20,978
M.I.T.

343
00:12:20,978 --> 00:12:23,981
THE EXCEPTIONS HAS BEEN NAMED

344
00:12:23,981 --> 00:12:25,583
AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION

345
00:12:25,583 --> 00:12:27,218
NOTABLE BOOK, "NEW YORK TIMES"

346
00:12:27,218 --> 00:12:29,220
NOTABLE BOOK, AND SHORT-LISTED

347
00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:31,389
FOR ROYAL SOCIETY SCIENCE BOOK

348
00:12:31,389 --> 00:12:33,925
PRIZE TO NAME A FEW AWARDS.

349
00:12:33,925 --> 00:12:35,526
ZERNIKE HERSELF WAS AWARDED A

350
00:12:35,526 --> 00:12:37,728
PRIZE FROM THE EDUCATION WRITERS

351
00:12:37,728 --> 00:12:41,832
ASSOCIATION FOR HER 1999

352
00:12:41,832 --> 00:12:45,369
M.I.T. -- HER 1999 ARTICLE,

353
00:12:45,369 --> 00:12:46,671
M.I.T. WOMEN FIGHT AGAINST BIAS

354
00:12:46,671 --> 00:12:48,239
IN THE "BOSTON GLOBE."

355
00:12:48,239 --> 00:12:50,775
HER JOURNALISM WHILE AT THE

356
00:12:50,775 --> 00:12:51,842
"BOSTON GLOBE" LED HER TO EXPAND

357
00:12:51,842 --> 00:12:54,445
HER WORK AND DETAIL THE ISSUES

358
00:12:54,445 --> 00:12:56,380
AROUND M.I.T. AND DISCRIMINATION

359
00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:58,816
AGAINST WOMEN FACULTY IN THE

360
00:12:58,816 --> 00:12:59,483
EXCEPTIONS.

361
00:12:59,483 --> 00:13:01,552
ZERNIKE CONTINUES AS A REPORTER

362
00:13:01,552 --> 00:13:03,154
ON THE NATIONAL DESK AT THE "NEW

363
00:13:03,154 --> 00:13:04,956
YORK TIMES" REPORTING ON KEY

364
00:13:04,956 --> 00:13:06,290
POLITICAL ISSUES THAT AFFECT

365
00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:07,058
WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

366
00:13:07,058 --> 00:13:09,994
WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE

367
00:13:09,994 --> 00:13:11,862
TO JOIN ME IN WELCOMING KATE

368
00:13:11,862 --> 00:13:12,530
ZERNIKE TO THE STAGE.

369
00:13:12,530 --> 00:13:19,737
[APPLAUSE]

370
00:13:19,737 --> 00:13:21,772
>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR

371
00:13:21,772 --> 00:13:23,207
THOSE LOVELY INTRODUCTIONS.

372
00:13:23,207 --> 00:13:25,276
I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY THE

373
00:13:25,276 --> 00:13:26,410
NICEST INTRODUCTIONS WE'VE HAD,

374
00:13:26,410 --> 00:13:26,744
SO THANK YOU.

375
00:13:26,744 --> 00:13:27,745
THAT WAS REALLY GREAT.

376
00:13:27,745 --> 00:13:30,114
I'M A BIG FAN OF THE NIH

377
00:13:30,114 --> 00:13:34,685
ALREADY.

378
00:13:34,685 --> 00:13:36,153
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE

379
00:13:36,153 --> 00:13:37,121
ACTUALLY BSH BECAUSE WE WERE

380
00:13:37,121 --> 00:13:38,956
DOING THIS WITH THE BOOK CLUB

381
00:13:38,956 --> 00:13:40,024
OVERLAPPING SO I DON'T KNOW HOW

382
00:13:40,024 --> 00:13:41,459
MANY PEOPLE HAVE READ THE BOOK

383
00:13:41,459 --> 00:13:42,226
AND HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE COMING

384
00:13:42,226 --> 00:13:43,527
TO THE STORY FRESH HERE, BUT I

385
00:13:43,527 --> 00:13:44,962
WILL SAY THAT HAVING DONE A LOT

386
00:13:44,962 --> 00:13:46,831
OF THESE EVENTS, SOME SOLO, SOME

387
00:13:46,831 --> 00:13:48,299
WITH NANCY, IT IS ALWAYS BETTER

388
00:13:48,299 --> 00:13:50,668
TO HEAR THE STORY STRAIGHT FROM

389
00:13:50,668 --> 00:13:53,237
NANCY, SO I AM JUST GOING TO

390
00:13:53,237 --> 00:13:55,373
SORT OF PROMPT HER, WE DID THIS

391
00:13:55,373 --> 00:13:57,008
AT THE NATIONAL ACADEMY IN APRIL

392
00:13:57,008 --> 00:13:58,342
AND IT WAS ACTUALLY VERY FUN.

393
00:13:58,342 --> 00:14:00,411
JUST TO SORT OF TELL US THE

394
00:14:00,411 --> 00:14:03,147
STORY ABOUT HOW SHE WENT FROM

395
00:14:03,147 --> 00:14:05,216
BEING THIS NEOPHYTE SORT OF

396
00:14:05,216 --> 00:14:08,052
CONVERT TO BIOLOGY AS A 1

397
00:14:08,052 --> 00:14:09,954
19-YEAR-OLD AT RADCLIFFE IN 1963

398
00:14:09,954 --> 00:14:12,456
TO LEADING THIS GROUP OF WOMEN

399
00:14:12,456 --> 00:14:13,524
IN 1999 AND ALL THE WORK SHE'S

400
00:14:13,524 --> 00:14:14,725
DONE AFTER THAT.

401
00:14:14,725 --> 00:14:17,295
SO NANCY, I THINK THIS IS THE

402
00:14:17,295 --> 00:14:18,663
LAST SCHEDULED EVENT WE HAVE AND

403
00:14:18,663 --> 00:14:21,399
NANCY HAS TOLD ME SHE'S NOT

404
00:14:21,399 --> 00:14:22,366
DOING ANYMORE.

405
00:14:22,366 --> 00:14:24,669
SOMETIMES SHE LIES BUT THIS TIME

406
00:14:24,669 --> 00:14:25,836
SHE MIGHT ACTUALLY MEAN IT.

407
00:14:25,836 --> 00:14:28,739
BUT ANYWAY, I WAS THINKING WHEN

408
00:14:28,739 --> 00:14:31,575
WE MET IN 1999, YOU WERE YOUNGER

409
00:14:31,575 --> 00:14:32,209
THAN I AM NOW.

410
00:14:32,209 --> 00:14:34,779
AND I'M REALLY YOUNG.

411
00:14:34,779 --> 00:14:37,048
ANYWAY, BUT SO AS I TELL THE

412
00:14:37,048 --> 00:14:39,317
STORY, I GOT THIS TIP, I WAS

413
00:14:39,317 --> 00:14:41,285
COVERING HIGHER EDUCATION, AND I

414
00:14:41,285 --> 00:14:42,586
GOT THIS TIP THAT THERE WAS

415
00:14:42,586 --> 00:14:43,721
SOMETHING GOING ON WITH WOMEN

416
00:14:43,721 --> 00:14:45,122
AND DISCRIMINATION AT M.I.T. AND

417
00:14:45,122 --> 00:14:46,857
I WAS LIKE, IT'S PROBABLY A

418
00:14:46,857 --> 00:14:49,260
LAWSUIT AND IT'S PROBABLY, YOU

419
00:14:49,260 --> 00:14:50,661
KNOW, IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE

420
00:14:50,661 --> 00:14:52,563
HE SAID, SHE SAID, IT WILL BE

421
00:14:52,563 --> 00:14:54,565
VERY UNRESOLVED BUT I DECIDED I

422
00:14:54,565 --> 00:14:56,300
WOULD CALL THIS WOMAN WHOSE NAME

423
00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:57,702
I WAS GIVEN WAYS NANCY HOPKINS.

424
00:14:57,702 --> 00:14:59,136
WHEN I CALLED NANCY, SHE TOLD

425
00:14:59,136 --> 00:15:00,338
ME, IN FACT, THE PRESIDENT OF

426
00:15:00,338 --> 00:15:01,839
M.I.T. WAS GOING TO ADMIT THAT

427
00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:03,040
M.I.T. HAD DISCRIMINATED AGAINST

428
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,275
THE WOMEN ON ITS SCIENCE

429
00:15:04,275 --> 00:15:04,709
FACULTY.

430
00:15:04,709 --> 00:15:07,011
SO THAT'S FIRST AMAZING FACT AS

431
00:15:07,011 --> 00:15:08,779
NANCY LIKES TO HEAR ME SAY THIS,

432
00:15:08,779 --> 00:15:10,815
BUT THAT IN MY BUSINESS IS

433
00:15:10,815 --> 00:15:12,183
CALLED A MAN BITES DOG STORY.

434
00:15:12,183 --> 00:15:15,653
IT WAS NOT WHAT WE EXPECTED.

435
00:15:15,653 --> 00:15:16,854
SO -- AND THEN THE SECOND

436
00:15:16,854 --> 00:15:18,289
INTERESTING THING SHE SAID WAS

437
00:15:18,289 --> 00:15:20,358
THAT THIS HAD ALL COME ABOUT,

438
00:15:20,358 --> 00:15:22,226
THE PRESIDENT WAS ACKNOWLEDGING

439
00:15:22,226 --> 00:15:23,194
THIS BECAUSE THE WOMEN ON THE

440
00:15:23,194 --> 00:15:24,195
SCIENCE FACULTY HAD GOTTEN

441
00:15:24,195 --> 00:15:25,763
TOGETHER WITH SOME OF THEIR MALE

442
00:15:25,763 --> 00:15:26,597
COLLEAGUES AND GATHERED ALL THIS

443
00:15:26,597 --> 00:15:27,598
INFORMATION AND PUT IT IN A

444
00:15:27,598 --> 00:15:28,666
REPORT THAT DOCUMENTED ALL THE

445
00:15:28,666 --> 00:15:30,067
WAYS IN WHICH WOMEN WERE -- THE

446
00:15:30,067 --> 00:15:34,238
CHRIS KEP SEETHEDISCREPANCIES TD

447
00:15:34,238 --> 00:15:34,572
AT M.I.T.

448
00:15:34,572 --> 00:15:37,074
I LOVED THAT BECAUSE JUST HAVING

449
00:15:37,074 --> 00:15:38,175
A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF

450
00:15:38,175 --> 00:15:39,243
SCIENCE, I THINK ANYONE WOULD

451
00:15:39,243 --> 00:15:41,011
SEE THIS, THIS TO ME STRUCK ME

452
00:15:41,011 --> 00:15:42,880
THAT THESE WERE FEMALE

453
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:43,981
SCIENTISTS LEANING INTO WHAT

454
00:15:43,981 --> 00:15:45,516
THEY DID BEST, WHICH WAS TO TAKE

455
00:15:45,516 --> 00:15:47,151
A HYPOTHESIS AND THEN GO LOOK

456
00:15:47,151 --> 00:15:48,552
FOR THE DATA TO SEE IF THIS WAS

457
00:15:48,552 --> 00:15:49,120
REALLY TRUE.

458
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,921
SO I WENT TO VISIT -- SO NANCY

459
00:15:50,921 --> 00:15:52,289
TOLD ME THIS, I THOUGHT IT WAS

460
00:15:52,289 --> 00:15:53,224
VERY INTERESTING, SHE WAS GOING

461
00:15:53,224 --> 00:15:54,291
TO SEND ME THE REPORT AND I WENT

462
00:15:54,291 --> 00:15:56,694
TO MEET HER IN HER LAB, AND THIS

463
00:15:56,694 --> 00:15:58,396
BECAME SORT OF A FAMOUS MOMENT

464
00:15:58,396 --> 00:16:00,164
BECAUSE I SAID TO NANCY, WELL,

465
00:16:00,164 --> 00:16:01,399
HOW DID THIS ALL START?

466
00:16:01,399 --> 00:16:03,134
AND SHE SAID, OH, WELL, I NEEDED

467
00:16:03,134 --> 00:16:05,870
MORE SPACE IN MY LAB FOR MY FISH

468
00:16:05,870 --> 00:16:07,171
TANKS AND I COULDN'T GET MORE

469
00:16:07,171 --> 00:16:08,372
SPACE EVEN THOUGH ALL THE MEN

470
00:16:08,372 --> 00:16:09,907
HAD MORE SPACE THAN I DID.

471
00:16:09,907 --> 00:16:12,610
AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, HOW DID

472
00:16:12,610 --> 00:16:13,878
YOU KNOW THE MEN HAD MORE SPACE

473
00:16:13,878 --> 00:16:14,645
THAN YOU DID?

474
00:16:14,645 --> 00:16:16,881
AND SHE SAID, WELL, I MEASURED.

475
00:16:16,881 --> 00:16:17,214
[LAUGHTER]

476
00:16:17,214 --> 00:16:19,316
AND I WAS LIKE, YOU MEASURED?

477
00:16:19,316 --> 00:16:20,918
SHE LOOKED AT ME LIKE I WAS THE

478
00:16:20,918 --> 00:16:21,919
DUMBEST PERSON ON EARTH, SHE

479
00:16:21,919 --> 00:16:23,554
SAID, WITH A TAPE MEASURE.

480
00:16:23,554 --> 00:16:24,855
AND AGAIN, NANCY, CAN YOU SEE

481
00:16:24,855 --> 00:16:26,724
HER NOW, SHE WAS THIS

482
00:16:26,724 --> 00:16:28,392
INCREDIBLY -- IS THIS INCREDIBLY

483
00:16:28,392 --> 00:16:30,161
ELEGANT WOMAN, SHE HAS A SLIGHT

484
00:16:30,161 --> 00:16:31,929
BRITISH ACCENT, AND I JUST

485
00:16:31,929 --> 00:16:32,730
COULDN'T IMAGINE, I THINK YOU

486
00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:33,798
WERE WEARING AT THE TIME -- I

487
00:16:33,798 --> 00:16:34,799
THINK YOU WERE WEARING A SUIT

488
00:16:34,799 --> 00:16:36,867
AND A SILK SCARF AND A BROACH

489
00:16:36,867 --> 00:16:38,836
AND I WAS LIKE, REALLY, YOU WERE

490
00:16:38,836 --> 00:16:39,537
CRAWLING AROUND THE FLOORS WITH

491
00:16:39,537 --> 00:16:40,304
A TAPE MEASURE?

492
00:16:40,304 --> 00:16:42,273
AND INDEED SHE HAD BEEN CRAWLING

493
00:16:42,273 --> 00:16:44,141
AROUND THE FLOORS WITH A TAPE

494
00:16:44,141 --> 00:16:44,375
MEASURE.

495
00:16:44,375 --> 00:16:45,443
AND YOU WERE SURPRISED THAT I

496
00:16:45,443 --> 00:16:46,744
FOUND THAT INTERESTING, THE TAPE

497
00:16:46,744 --> 00:16:47,344
MEASURE.

498
00:16:47,344 --> 00:16:48,512
IT HAD NOT OCCURRED TO YOU THAT

499
00:16:48,512 --> 00:16:49,580
THAT WAS AN UNUSUAL THING TO DO.

500
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:51,148
DO YOU THINK THAT'S BECAUSE YOU

501
00:16:51,148 --> 00:16:53,751
ARE A SCIENTIST?

502
00:16:53,751 --> 00:16:56,086
>> WELL, YES, I MEAN, JUST
TO

503
00:16:56,086 --> 00:16:57,488
GET THE DATA WAS VERY

504
00:16:57,488 --> 00:16:57,955
CONTROVERSIAL.

505
00:16:57,955 --> 00:17:00,224
YOU KNOW, WOMEN ALLOWED TO HAVE

506
00:17:00,224 --> 00:17:01,325
DATA, PEOPLE WERE VERY CONCERNED

507
00:17:01,325 --> 00:17:02,726
ABOUT WOMEN HAVING DATA.

508
00:17:02,726 --> 00:17:04,128
THEY MIGHT FIND OUT WHAT WAS

509
00:17:04,128 --> 00:17:06,497
ACTUALLY GOING ON, OH, MY GOSH.

510
00:17:06,497 --> 00:17:08,332
ANYWAY, SO YEAH, IT WAS

511
00:17:08,332 --> 00:17:10,000
CONTROVERSIAL AND I DID MY

512
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,135
MEASUREMENTS LATE AT NIGHT, WHEN

513
00:17:11,135 --> 00:17:12,903
EVERYBODY HAD GONE HOME, I'D

514
00:17:12,903 --> 00:17:14,738
CREEP AROUND DOING ALL THE SPACE

515
00:17:14,738 --> 00:17:15,306
MEASUREMENTS.

516
00:17:15,306 --> 00:17:16,006
SO, YEAH.

517
00:17:16,006 --> 00:17:17,508
IT WAS A BIG DEAL.

518
00:17:17,508 --> 00:17:20,144
IT'S HARD -- IT'S REALLY HARD TO

519
00:17:20,144 --> 00:17:21,312
IMAGINE TODAY, I THINK, WHAT IT

520
00:17:21,312 --> 00:17:22,847
WAS LIKE THEN ACTUALLY.

521
00:17:22,847 --> 00:17:23,948
THAT IS A SIGN OF PROGRESS.

522
00:17:23,948 --> 00:17:25,616
SO THERE'S HOPE.

523
00:17:25,616 --> 00:17:26,984
OFTEN WE TALK TO YOUNG PEOPLE

524
00:17:26,984 --> 00:17:28,118
AND THEY SAY, HOW MANY COME

525
00:17:28,118 --> 00:17:29,553
NOTHING CHANGED?

526
00:17:29,553 --> 00:17:32,490
AND I SAY, LITTLE DO YOU KNOW.

527
00:17:32,490 --> 00:17:34,558
SO TALKING TO KATE WAS A VERY

528
00:17:34,558 --> 00:17:36,093
SCARY THING, BECAUSE THE WOMEN

529
00:17:36,093 --> 00:17:38,262
HAD OPERATED IN ABSOLUTE

530
00:17:38,262 --> 00:17:38,529
SECRECY.

531
00:17:38,529 --> 00:17:40,397
IN FACT, WE WERE AFRAID THAT

532
00:17:40,397 --> 00:17:41,432
SOMEBODY AT M.I.T. WOULD SEE

533
00:17:41,432 --> 00:17:42,766
THAT MANY WOMEN GET TOGETHER, SO

534
00:17:42,766 --> 00:17:44,435
WE WERE AFRAID TO ACTUALLY MEET

535
00:17:44,435 --> 00:17:47,037
TOGETHER AS A GROUP, BECAUSE

536
00:17:47,037 --> 00:17:48,772
PEOPLE WOULD THINK SOMETHING ODD

537
00:17:48,772 --> 00:17:50,107
WAS GOING ON TO SEE THAT MANY

538
00:17:50,107 --> 00:17:50,474
WOMEN TOGETHER.

539
00:17:50,474 --> 00:17:52,109
SO WE USED TO MOSTLY

540
00:17:52,109 --> 00:17:56,514
COMMUNICATE, YOU KNOW, BY PHONE

541
00:17:56,514 --> 00:17:57,848
ACTUALLY.

542
00:17:57,848 --> 00:17:59,283
AND WE'D HAVE LITTLE

543
00:17:59,283 --> 00:18:00,251
SUBMEETINGS, I'D GO TO PEOPLE'S

544
00:18:00,251 --> 00:18:01,051
OFFICE TO TALK TO THEM.

545
00:18:01,051 --> 00:18:03,187
SO IT WAS A BIG DEAL TO TALK TO

546
00:18:03,187 --> 00:18:04,355
THE PRESS, AND IT WAS THE FIRST

547
00:18:04,355 --> 00:18:05,723
THING WE EVER DID AS A GROUP

548
00:18:05,723 --> 00:18:06,924
WHERE I DIDN'T GET THE

549
00:18:06,924 --> 00:18:08,425
PERMISSION OF EVERY SINGLE ONE

550
00:18:08,425 --> 00:18:09,527
OF THE WOMEN THAT I WAS GOING TO

551
00:18:09,527 --> 00:18:10,661
TALK TO SOMEBODY FROM THE PRESS.

552
00:18:10,661 --> 00:18:12,730
AND I WAS RACING AROUND TRYING

553
00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:16,667
TO GET IN TIME BEFORE KATE CAME

554
00:18:16,667 --> 00:18:18,202
GET EVERYBODY'S PERMISSION THAT

555
00:18:18,202 --> 00:18:19,603
I WOULD BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK WITH

556
00:18:19,603 --> 00:18:21,038
HER AT ALL, AND I DIDN'T GET TO

557
00:18:21,038 --> 00:18:22,473
EVERYBODY SO I FELT VERY NERVOUS

558
00:18:22,473 --> 00:18:24,475
JUST SPEAKING TO HER BECAUSE WE

559
00:18:24,475 --> 00:18:26,710
HAD OPERATED IN ABSOLUTE

560
00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:28,345
SECRECY, AND SUDDENLY, OH, MY

561
00:18:28,345 --> 00:18:29,480
GOODNESS, IT WAS GOING TO BE IN

562
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,015
THE NEWSPAPER?

563
00:18:31,015 --> 00:18:32,082
THAT WAS GOING TO BE INTERESTING

564
00:18:32,082 --> 00:18:32,616
TO SEE.

565
00:18:32,616 --> 00:18:35,286
BUT I ACTUALLY AT THAT TIME

566
00:18:35,286 --> 00:18:37,688
THOUGHT SO FEW PEOPLE IN THE

567
00:18:37,688 --> 00:18:41,158
WORLD UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS IS

568
00:18:41,158 --> 00:18:42,293
ABOUT, SO FEW PEOPLE KNOW WHAT

569
00:18:42,293 --> 00:18:46,530
THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM IS THAT,

570
00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:47,731
YOU KNOW, IS ANYBODY REALLY

571
00:18:47,731 --> 00:18:51,235
GOING TO CARE?

572
00:18:51,235 --> 00:18:53,170
WELL, SHE CHANGED EVERYTHING,

573
00:18:53,170 --> 00:18:53,737
THIS LADY.

574
00:18:53,737 --> 00:18:55,272
>> THE STORY VERY QUICKLY
WENT

575
00:18:55,272 --> 00:18:55,539
VIRAL.

576
00:18:55,539 --> 00:18:56,707
SO WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT,

577
00:18:56,707 --> 00:19:01,712
BUT I WANT TO GO WAY BACK --

578
00:19:01,712 --> 00:19:02,846
WELL, A LITTLE BIT BACK, BECAUSE

579
00:19:02,846 --> 00:19:05,349
YOU DID NOT START OUT, WHEN I

580
00:19:05,349 --> 00:19:06,984
MET YOU, YOU WERE BECOMING A

581
00:19:06,984 --> 00:19:08,485
FEMINIST, BUT YOU DID NOT START

582
00:19:08,485 --> 00:19:09,920
OUT YOUR CAREER THINKING, I'M

583
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:10,788
GOING TO BE A FEMINIST.

584
00:19:10,788 --> 00:19:12,556
YOU DID NOT START OUT YOUR

585
00:19:12,556 --> 00:19:13,190
CAREER THINKING I'M GOING TO

586
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:15,960
CHANGE THE WORLD.

587
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,895
YOU JUST WANTED TO DO YOUR

588
00:19:17,895 --> 00:19:20,097
SCIENSCIENCE.

589
00:19:20,097 --> 00:19:21,532
I LOVE HEARING -- ONE OF MY

590
00:19:21,532 --> 00:19:22,733
FAVORITE QUESTIONS WHEN I WAS

591
00:19:22,733 --> 00:19:23,467
WRITING AND REPORTING THE BOOK

592
00:19:23,467 --> 00:19:24,935
WAS TO ASK THE SCIENTISTS I MET,

593
00:19:24,935 --> 00:19:26,337
HOW DID YOU GET INTO SCIENCE.

594
00:19:26,337 --> 00:19:28,772
AND I PARTICULARLY LIKE NANCY'S

595
00:19:28,772 --> 00:19:29,306
STORY.

596
00:19:29,306 --> 00:19:31,141
CAN YOU TELL US, HOW DID YOU

597
00:19:31,141 --> 00:19:32,242
BECOME A BIOLOGY STUDENT?

598
00:19:32,242 --> 00:19:35,346
>> I WAS IN COLLEGE AND
BLOOKING

599
00:19:35,346 --> 00:19:36,413
FOR SOMETHING TO MAJOR IN.

600
00:19:36,413 --> 00:19:37,815
I HAD TAKEN ALL THE SCIENCE

601
00:19:37,815 --> 00:19:39,183
REQUIREMENTS AND SO FORTH EXCEPT

602
00:19:39,183 --> 00:19:40,317
BIOLOGY, SO THE SPRING OF MY

603
00:19:40,317 --> 00:19:42,219
JUNIOR YEAR, I SIGNED UP FOR

604
00:19:42,219 --> 00:19:44,855
BIOLOGY THINKING MAYBE I'D GO TO

605
00:19:44,855 --> 00:19:45,723
MEDICAL SCHOOL, I DON'T KNOW.

606
00:19:45,723 --> 00:19:49,326
IN MY GENERATION, WOMEN GOT --

607
00:19:49,326 --> 00:19:52,696
MY TYPE GOT A GREAT EDUCATION

608
00:19:52,696 --> 00:19:54,531
AND THEN THEY WOULD WORK FOR A

609
00:19:54,531 --> 00:19:56,100
WHILE, MAYBE THEY'D MARRY YOUNG,

610
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:57,534
HAVE CHILDREN IN THEIR 20s,

611
00:19:57,534 --> 00:20:01,338
AND THAT WAS THE PATTERN

612
00:20:01,338 --> 00:20:02,539
EXPECTED.

613
00:20:02,539 --> 00:20:04,008
BUT I THOUGHT STILL YOU'RE ON

614
00:20:04,008 --> 00:20:05,009
THE TRACK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO

615
00:20:05,009 --> 00:20:06,043
GET ALL THIS EDUCATION, I'M A

616
00:20:06,043 --> 00:20:07,378
LITTLE UNCLEAR WHAT COMES LATER.

617
00:20:07,378 --> 00:20:11,982
BUT I GO INTO THIS CLASSROOM AND

618
00:20:11,982 --> 00:20:13,384
IT WAS A SPRING SEMESTER CLASS

619
00:20:13,384 --> 00:20:15,686
AT HARVARD, INTRODUCTORY BIOLOGY

620
00:20:15,686 --> 00:20:16,887
TAUGHT BY FOUR FACULTY.

621
00:20:16,887 --> 00:20:18,756
THE SECOND WAS A MAN NAMED JIM

622
00:20:18,756 --> 00:20:21,025
WATSON, I KNEW HE'D WON A NOBEL

623
00:20:21,025 --> 00:20:22,559
PRIZE, I WASN'T EXACTLY SURE

624
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:23,861
WHAT A BIG DEAL IT WAS AT THAT

625
00:20:23,861 --> 00:20:25,162
TIME BUT IT WAS A BIG DEAL, AND

626
00:20:25,162 --> 00:20:27,031
HE GAVE THIS LECTURE ABOUT DNA

627
00:20:27,031 --> 00:20:27,998
AND IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT THIS

628
00:20:27,998 --> 00:20:28,899
WAS A REVOLUTION THAT WAS GOING

629
00:20:28,899 --> 00:20:30,868
TO REVEAL THE SECRET OF LIFE.

630
00:20:30,868 --> 00:20:32,469
SO I WENT IN AS ONE PERSON AND

631
00:20:32,469 --> 00:20:33,470
WALKED OUT AS A DIFFERENT

632
00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:34,371
PERSON.

633
00:20:34,371 --> 00:20:37,574
I WAS ON SOME CLOUD.

634
00:20:37,574 --> 00:20:40,711
AND IT WAS LIFE CHANGING.

635
00:20:40,711 --> 00:20:42,346
SO I WENT AND ASKED IF I COULD

636
00:20:42,346 --> 00:20:43,647
WORK IN HIS LAB, HE SAID SURE.

637
00:20:43,647 --> 00:20:45,649
SO I WORKED IN HIS LAB WHILE I

638
00:20:45,649 --> 00:20:46,417
WAS IN COLLEGE.

639
00:20:46,417 --> 00:20:49,153
HE ENCOURAGED ME TO BE A

640
00:20:49,153 --> 00:20:49,520
SCIENTIST.

641
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,888
AND I LOOKED AROUND AND NOTICED

642
00:20:50,888 --> 00:20:54,224
THERE WEREN'T ANY WOMEN FACULTY.

643
00:20:54,224 --> 00:20:56,927
I MEAN, I HAD NONE, THERE WERE

644
00:20:56,927 --> 00:20:57,428
NONE ESSENTIALLY.

645
00:20:57,428 --> 00:21:00,264
>> THERE WERE LITERALLY
NONE AT

646
00:21:00,264 --> 00:21:00,497
HARVARD.

647
00:21:00,497 --> 00:21:01,732
AT THIS POINT YOUR CLASS -- I

648
00:21:01,732 --> 00:21:03,467
GUESS YOUR SISTER'S CLASS A YEAR

649
00:21:03,467 --> 00:21:04,802
AHEAD OF YOU WAS THE FIRST TO

650
00:21:04,802 --> 00:21:06,837
GRADUATE WITH THE MEN OF

651
00:21:06,837 --> 00:21:09,473
HARVARD, AND THE CLASSES WERE

652
00:21:09,473 --> 00:21:09,807
INTEGRATED --

653
00:21:09,807 --> 00:21:10,641
>> ALL THE CLASSES WERE

654
00:21:10,641 --> 00:21:11,008
TOGETHER, YEAH.

655
00:21:11,008 --> 00:21:12,543
>> BUT THERE WAS NOT A
SINGLE

656
00:21:12,543 --> 00:21:13,677
WOMAN ON THE FACULTY AT HARVARD.

657
00:21:13,677 --> 00:21:14,745
>> I DON'T THINK THERE
WAS.

658
00:21:14,745 --> 00:21:16,480
THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE

659
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:17,381
MEDICAL SCHOOL ONE OR TWO.

660
00:21:17,381 --> 00:21:17,781
>> RIGHT.

661
00:21:17,781 --> 00:21:21,185
>> ANYWAY, SO I JUST
ASSUMED

662
00:21:21,185 --> 00:21:22,319
THAT THE REASON WAS AFTER I

663
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:24,121
WORKED IN THE LAB AND SAW THESE

664
00:21:24,121 --> 00:21:25,456
MEN WERE WORKING SIX AND SEVEN

665
00:21:25,456 --> 00:21:26,890
DAYS A WEEK, THESE LONG HOURS,

666
00:21:26,890 --> 00:21:28,525
HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY DO THAT

667
00:21:28,525 --> 00:21:29,593
JOB AND BE A MOTHER?

668
00:21:29,593 --> 00:21:31,628
SO I JUST ASSUMED WOMEN CHOSE TO

669
00:21:31,628 --> 00:21:33,263
BE MOTHERS AND THAT WAS WHY.

670
00:21:33,263 --> 00:21:34,431
LITTLE DID I KNOW, THEY COULDN'T

671
00:21:34,431 --> 00:21:37,801
GET JOBS ACTUALLY.

672
00:21:37,801 --> 00:21:39,136
SO THERE WAS A MUCH MORE SERIOUS

673
00:21:39,136 --> 00:21:41,438
PROBLEM THAN I REALIZED.

674
00:21:41,438 --> 00:21:43,640
SO THAT'S ALL I THOUGHT IT WAS.

675
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,975
AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE WORLD

676
00:21:44,975 --> 00:21:48,445
CHANGED WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS

677
00:21:48,445 --> 00:21:49,213
MOVEMENT, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION

678
00:21:49,213 --> 00:21:50,280
REGULATIONS, THE WOMEN'S

679
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:50,714
LIBERATION MOVEMENT.

680
00:21:50,714 --> 00:21:52,416
THAT WAS THE ERA OF GREAT CHANGE

681
00:21:52,416 --> 00:21:53,450
IN THE UNITED STATES.

682
00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:55,652
AND I WAS JUST QUIETLY GOING

683
00:21:55,652 --> 00:21:57,988
ALONG WITH -- MY GOAL WAS TO WIN

684
00:21:57,988 --> 00:21:59,022
A NOBEL PRIZE AT A VERY EARLY

685
00:21:59,022 --> 00:22:00,390
AGE AND THEN RETIRE FROM SCIENCE

686
00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:03,427
IN TIME TO HAVE MY CHILDREN.

687
00:22:03,427 --> 00:22:03,961
[LAUGHTER]

688
00:22:03,961 --> 00:22:05,929
>> WHAT SHE MEANS BY THIS,
SO AT

689
00:22:05,929 --> 00:22:08,899
THIS POINT, WOMEN AT THIS AGE

690
00:22:08,899 --> 00:22:09,867
HAD THREE CHILDREN ON AVERAGE

691
00:22:09,867 --> 00:22:12,136
AND THEY HAD THE LAST OF THOSE

692
00:22:12,136 --> 00:22:13,403
THREE CHILDREN BY AGE 30 SO SHE

693
00:22:13,403 --> 00:22:17,441
WAS GOING TO WIN THE NOBLE BY

694
00:22:17,441 --> 00:22:17,708
AGE 30.

695
00:22:17,708 --> 00:22:19,376
>> BECAUSE WATSON DID HIS
WORK

696
00:22:19,376 --> 00:22:21,278
AT 25, I FIGURED WHY COULDN'T I.

697
00:22:21,278 --> 00:22:22,780
SO ANYWAY, THAT WAS MY PLAN.

698
00:22:22,780 --> 00:22:25,749
>> SO JIM ENCOURAGES YOU
TO DO A

699
00:22:25,749 --> 00:22:28,252
PH.D. AT YALE, AND YOU GO FOR A

700
00:22:28,252 --> 00:22:29,853
YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF, AND THEN

701
00:22:29,853 --> 00:22:32,256
YOU DROP OUT BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST

702
00:22:32,256 --> 00:22:32,623
THINKING LIKE --

703
00:22:32,623 --> 00:22:37,194
>> WELL, THERE WAS ONLY
ONE

704
00:22:37,194 --> 00:22:38,562
PROBLEM -- YOU COULD WIN A NOBEL

705
00:22:38,562 --> 00:22:39,563
PRIZE IF YOU COULD SOLVE IT,

706
00:22:39,563 --> 00:22:40,397
THERE WAS NOBODY THE A YALE

707
00:22:40,397 --> 00:22:41,365
WORKING ON THAT PROBLEM BUT THE

708
00:22:41,365 --> 00:22:43,100
PEOPLE BACK AT HARVARD WHO WERE

709
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:44,735
WORKING ON IT, I SAID I DON'T

710
00:22:44,735 --> 00:22:46,837
HAVE TIME TO STAY HERE, I'VE GOT

711
00:22:46,837 --> 00:22:48,138
TO GET MY PRIZE BEFORE 25, I'VE

712
00:22:48,138 --> 00:22:49,139
GOT TO GET MOVING.

713
00:22:49,139 --> 00:22:50,908
SO I WENT BACK TO HARVARD FIRST

714
00:22:50,908 --> 00:22:52,609
AS A TECHNICIAN FOR A YEAR AND

715
00:22:52,609 --> 00:22:55,179
THEN WHEN THE PROJECT WORKED,

716
00:22:55,179 --> 00:22:56,680
JIM TOLD ME NOW YOU HAVE TO GO

717
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,115
TO GRADUATE SCHOOL.

718
00:22:58,115 --> 00:22:59,716
OKAY, SO THEN I WENT TO GRADUATE

719
00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:00,050
SCHOOL.

720
00:23:00,050 --> 00:23:02,953
BUT THE PROJECT DID WORK, AND

721
00:23:02,953 --> 00:23:05,322
THE PERSON -- I WAS IN MARK --

722
00:23:05,322 --> 00:23:06,623
HE SHOULD HAVE WON THE NOBEL

723
00:23:06,623 --> 00:23:08,025
PRIZE BUT HE WAS ONE OF THOSE

724
00:23:08,025 --> 00:23:11,662
PEOPLE WHO WAS GYPPED, I'M

725
00:23:11,662 --> 00:23:11,895
AFRAID.

726
00:23:11,895 --> 00:23:14,765
>> SO THE REASON YOU
LOOKED

727
00:23:14,765 --> 00:23:17,334
AROUND AND SAW SO FEW WOMEN OR

728
00:23:17,334 --> 00:23:21,405
NO WOMEN RUNNING LABS WAS

729
00:23:21,405 --> 00:23:22,206
BECAUSE OF CHILDREN, BECAUSE

730
00:23:22,206 --> 00:23:22,806
THEY COULDN'T HAVE CHILDREN.

731
00:23:22,806 --> 00:23:24,341
>> WHO WOULD IMAGINE THEY

732
00:23:24,341 --> 00:23:24,975
COULDN'T GET A JOB.

733
00:23:24,975 --> 00:23:26,510
>> SO FOR A MOMENT YOU
THINK

734
00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:28,145
OKAY, IT'S TIME FOR ME TO HAVE

735
00:23:28,145 --> 00:23:30,047
MY KIDS, I'VE GOT MY PH.D., ALL

736
00:23:30,047 --> 00:23:31,548
VERY NICE, YOU HAVE JOB OFFERS

737
00:23:31,548 --> 00:23:34,751
FROM HARVARD AND MILT  M.I.T. BU

738
00:23:34,751 --> 00:23:36,053
THINK NO I'VE GOT TO HAVE MY

739
00:23:36,053 --> 00:23:37,788
KIDS NOW.

740
00:23:37,788 --> 00:23:38,822
YOUR FIRST MARRIAGE FALLS APART,

741
00:23:38,822 --> 00:23:39,990
SO NOW YOU HAVE TO WORK AND

742
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:41,592
LUCKILY YOU CAN GET A JOB.

743
00:23:41,592 --> 00:23:45,562
AND YOU RECOGNIZE THAT YOU'RE

744
00:23:45,562 --> 00:23:46,396
TREMENDOUSLY PRIVILEGED AND

745
00:23:46,396 --> 00:23:47,497
AGAIN, YOU DON'T THINK THAT

746
00:23:47,497 --> 00:23:48,632
GENDER IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE

747
00:23:48,632 --> 00:23:48,899
FOR YOU.

748
00:23:48,899 --> 00:23:50,801
>> I REALLY DIDN'T.

749
00:23:50,801 --> 00:23:51,034
>> YEAH.

750
00:23:51,034 --> 00:23:53,437
>> FOR WHICH I APOLOGIZE
TO ALL

751
00:23:53,437 --> 00:23:54,705
THOSE FEMINISTS, I DID NOT KNOW

752
00:23:54,705 --> 00:23:55,973
WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT.

753
00:23:55,973 --> 00:23:57,074
I LITERALLY DIDN'T.

754
00:23:57,074 --> 00:23:58,675
THEY WERE VERY ANGRY AND

755
00:23:58,675 --> 00:24:01,645
COMPLAINING BIT EARLY.

756
00:24:01,645 --> 00:24:02,279
 BITTERLY.

757
00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:03,180
I THOUGHT WHAT ARE THEY

758
00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:04,081
COMPLAINING ABOUT?

759
00:24:04,081 --> 00:24:05,716
I WAS CALLED BY M.I.T. AND

760
00:24:05,716 --> 00:24:06,817
HARVARD AND ASKED TO APPLY

761
00:24:06,817 --> 00:24:07,818
BECAUSE SUDDENLY UNIVERSITIES

762
00:24:07,818 --> 00:24:09,620
WERE BEING PRESSURED TO HIRE

763
00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:09,953
WOMEN.

764
00:24:09,953 --> 00:24:11,355
WITHOUT THAT PRESSURE, I DON'T

765
00:24:11,355 --> 00:24:12,623
THINK THERE WOULD BE A WOMAN ON

766
00:24:12,623 --> 00:24:13,790
THE FACULTY AT THESE

767
00:24:13,790 --> 00:24:15,158
INSTITUTIONS FRANKLY UP UNTIL

768
00:24:15,158 --> 00:24:16,393
TODAY, IF THEY HADN'T BEEN

769
00:24:16,393 --> 00:24:17,928
THROUGH THE PRESSURE OF THOSE

770
00:24:17,928 --> 00:24:19,029
GREAT SOCIAL MOVEMENTS.

771
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:19,263
ANYWAY.

772
00:24:19,263 --> 00:24:20,898
>> BUT YOU DIDN'T FEAR --
YOU

773
00:24:20,898 --> 00:24:22,199
DIDN'T WORRY THAT THIS WOULD

774
00:24:22,199 --> 00:24:24,501
MARK YOU AS SORT OF SOME

775
00:24:24,501 --> 00:24:25,135
AFFIRMATIVE ACTION CASE BECAUSE

776
00:24:25,135 --> 00:24:26,470
YOU THOUGHT I HAD GOT GREAT

777
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:28,438
TRAINING, I CAN DO THIS JOB --

778
00:24:28,438 --> 00:24:30,274
YOU KNOW, I, TOO, CAN WIN THE

779
00:24:30,274 --> 00:24:30,474
PRIZE.

780
00:24:30,474 --> 00:24:33,477
>> I BELIEVED IN THE

781
00:24:33,477 --> 00:24:33,777
MERITOCRACY.

782
00:24:33,777 --> 00:24:34,878
DON'T WE ALL?

783
00:24:34,878 --> 00:24:37,614
AMERICA IS A MERITOCRACY.

784
00:24:37,614 --> 00:24:37,814
RIGHT?

785
00:24:37,814 --> 00:24:40,817
>> YEAH, YEAH.

786
00:24:40,817 --> 00:24:44,221
>I HEAR CRYING.

787
00:24:44,221 --> 00:24:46,189
SO WHEN I -- WHENEVER I BRING UP

788
00:24:46,189 --> 00:24:48,325
THAT YOU WERE A PROTEGE OF JIM,

789
00:24:48,325 --> 00:24:50,460
JAMES WATSON, PEOPLE INSTANTLY

790
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:52,863
GO TO ROSALYN FRANKLIN, AND OH,

791
00:24:52,863 --> 00:24:55,999
BUT HE WAS SUCH A SEXIST ABOUT

792
00:24:55,999 --> 00:24:56,867
ROSALYN FRANKLY.

793
00:24:56,867 --> 00:25:00,170
YOU AMAZINGLY READ THE DOUBLE

794
00:25:00,170 --> 00:25:04,107
HELIX, WATSON'S ACCOUNT OF

795
00:25:04,107 --> 00:25:05,842
CODING DNA IN THE PASSENGER SEAT

796
00:25:05,842 --> 00:25:08,245
OF HIS MG ON THE WAY TO CAPE

797
00:25:08,245 --> 00:25:08,912
COD, I BELIEVE.

798
00:25:08,912 --> 00:25:10,113
AS YOU'RE READING THESE PAGES

799
00:25:10,113 --> 00:25:11,214
AND TALKING TO HIM ABOUT THE

800
00:25:11,214 --> 00:25:13,183
BOOK, YOU HAD NEVER HEARD OF

801
00:25:13,183 --> 00:25:15,218
ROSALYN FRANKLY AT THIS POINT

802
00:25:15,218 --> 00:25:16,586
WHO HAD DIED AND WHAT WAS YOUR

803
00:25:16,586 --> 00:25:17,654
IMPRESSION OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED

804
00:25:17,654 --> 00:25:17,854
THERE?

805
00:25:17,854 --> 00:25:21,725
>> THIS IS ALSO PAINFUL.

806
00:25:21,725 --> 00:25:23,460
OH, DEAR, YOU KNOW, TO BE YOUNG

807
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:25,662
IS WONDERFUL IN SOME WAYS BUT IT

808
00:25:25,662 --> 00:25:27,564
YOU CAN BE A LITTLE IGNORANT.

809
00:25:27,564 --> 00:25:29,599
I READ THIS ACCOUNT, IT WAS THE

810
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,736
GRAFT OF THE DOUBLE HELIX, AND

811
00:25:32,736 --> 00:25:34,137
IT WAS MUCH MORE OUTRAGEOUS THAN

812
00:25:34,137 --> 00:25:35,272
THE FINAL VERSION, LET ME TELL

813
00:25:35,272 --> 00:25:36,073
YOU.

814
00:25:36,073 --> 00:25:39,042
THE LAWYERS GOT HOLD OF IT, A

815
00:25:39,042 --> 00:25:41,745
LOT OF STUFF WAS REMOVED.

816
00:25:41,745 --> 00:25:43,180
BUT ANYWAY, IN THERE WAS THIS

817
00:25:43,180 --> 00:25:44,848
DESCRIPTION OF ROSALYN FRANKLIN,

818
00:25:44,848 --> 00:25:47,217
AND I THOUGHT -- AND HE KIND OF

819
00:25:47,217 --> 00:25:49,519
HAD THIS IDEA THAT SHE WAS THIS

820
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:50,954
TECHNICIAN, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY

821
00:25:50,954 --> 00:25:54,124
WHO KIND OF -- IT KIND OF GOT IN

822
00:25:54,124 --> 00:25:55,425
THE WAY OF THE GREAT GENIUSES

823
00:25:55,425 --> 00:25:56,626
WHO WERE GOING TO SOLVE THE

824
00:25:56,626 --> 00:25:57,728
PROBLEM OF THE STRUCTURE OF DNA

825
00:25:57,728 --> 00:25:58,628
AND HERE WAS THIS WOMAN

826
00:25:58,628 --> 00:25:59,463
COLLECTING SOME DATA.

827
00:25:59,463 --> 00:26:01,231
BUT I IT NOT UNDERSTAND AT THAT

828
00:26:01,231 --> 00:26:03,533
TIME HOW HARD IT WAS TO COLLECT

829
00:26:03,533 --> 00:26:03,867
DATA.

830
00:26:03,867 --> 00:26:07,471
I DID NOT UNDERSTAND HOW -- WHAT

831
00:26:07,471 --> 00:26:12,409
DID I KNOW, JIM WAS A GENE JUSTE

832
00:26:12,409 --> 00:26:16,246
WAS MR. SCIENCE, IF HE SAID IT,

833
00:26:16,246 --> 00:26:17,547
IT WAS TRUE AND I JUST

834
00:26:17,547 --> 00:26:18,548
INTERPRETED IT -- I MUST SAY,

835
00:26:18,548 --> 00:26:20,717
JIM WAS A WONDERFUL FRIEND TO MY

836
00:26:20,717 --> 00:26:22,219
FAMILY, TO MY MOTHER, TO MY

837
00:26:22,219 --> 00:26:24,287
SISTER, TO MY BOYFRIEND, WE USED

838
00:26:24,287 --> 00:26:25,322
TO GO TO THE MOVIES ALL

839
00:26:25,322 --> 00:26:25,722
TOGETHER.

840
00:26:25,722 --> 00:26:26,957
I MEAN, HE WAS A REAL FRIEND OF

841
00:26:26,957 --> 00:26:28,925
THE FAMILY, SO I ADORE HIM FOR

842
00:26:28,925 --> 00:26:31,094
THAT ERA, ALTHOUGH HE LATER

843
00:26:31,094 --> 00:26:32,829
BECAME, I THINK, VERY DIFFERENT

844
00:26:32,829 --> 00:26:34,464
FROM SORT OF THE PERSON I KNEW

845
00:26:34,464 --> 00:26:38,735
EARLY ON.

846
00:26:38,735 --> 00:26:40,504
WHAT SHOULD I SAY?

847
00:26:40,504 --> 00:26:41,605
ANYWAY, BUT I THINK THAT HE HELD

848
00:26:41,605 --> 00:26:44,007
THE VIEW OF WOMEN THAT WE'RE

849
00:26:44,007 --> 00:26:44,374
TALKING ABOUT.

850
00:26:44,374 --> 00:26:45,675
THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

851
00:26:45,675 --> 00:26:48,845
ALL OF SOCIETY HELD THAT VIEW.

852
00:26:48,845 --> 00:26:50,347
SO ROSALYN FRANKLIN WAS BATTLING

853
00:26:50,347 --> 00:26:51,681
THE PROBLEM, BUT I DID NOT KNOW

854
00:26:51,681 --> 00:26:53,116
ABOUT THAT SO I JUST THOUGHT

855
00:26:53,116 --> 00:26:54,551
THIS WAS THE CHARACTERS THERE,

856
00:26:54,551 --> 00:26:56,286
AND IT WASN'T UNTIL ALL THOSE

857
00:26:56,286 --> 00:26:59,890
YEARS LATER, AFTER I EXPERIENCED

858
00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:01,858
IT, AND READ THE BOOK ABOUT

859
00:27:01,858 --> 00:27:04,127
ROSALYN FRANKLIN BY -- THERE

860
00:27:04,127 --> 00:27:05,662
WERE SEVERAL WRITTEN ABOUT HER.

861
00:27:05,662 --> 00:27:07,631
>> ANNE SEHR.

862
00:27:07,631 --> 00:27:09,733
>> OH, MY GOSH, YES, SHE
WAS

863
00:27:09,733 --> 00:27:11,168
LIVING THE LIFE THAT I CAME TO

864
00:27:11,168 --> 00:27:13,670
LEAD AT M.I.T.

865
00:27:13,670 --> 00:27:13,970
AND SO --

866
00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:15,639
>> SO WHEN YOU STARTED AT

867
00:27:15,639 --> 00:27:16,940
M.I.T., YOU STARTED IN THIS

868
00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:20,544
BRAND NEW CANCER CENTER, AND

869
00:27:20,544 --> 00:27:23,613
AGAIN, YOU THINK SCIENCE IS A

870
00:27:23,613 --> 00:27:24,848
MERITOCRACY, AND AS YOU SAY,

871
00:27:24,848 --> 00:27:27,117
WHEN YOU DESCRIBE THE PROBLEMS,

872
00:27:27,117 --> 00:27:28,218
THEY WERE SMALL ENOUGH THAT NONE

873
00:27:28,218 --> 00:27:29,553
OF US WOULD REALLY RAISE OUR

874
00:27:29,553 --> 00:27:30,487
HAND AND COMPLAIN, RIGHT?

875
00:27:30,487 --> 00:27:32,155
BUT IT STRIKES ME AS I WAS

876
00:27:32,155 --> 00:27:34,658
REPORTING THE BOOK THAT YOU

877
00:27:34,658 --> 00:27:37,294
REALLY WENT OUT OF YOUR WAY TO

878
00:27:37,294 --> 00:27:39,496
EXPLAIN THESE PROBLEMS AS

879
00:27:39,496 --> 00:27:40,564
ANYTHING BUT GENDER

880
00:27:40,564 --> 00:27:41,231
DISCRIMINATION.

881
00:27:41,231 --> 00:27:42,032
SO FIRST YOU'RE ON THE FIFTH

882
00:27:42,032 --> 00:27:43,300
FLOOR WHICH IS ENORMOUSLY

883
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:44,468
COMPETITIVE, AND YOU THINK OKAY,

884
00:27:44,468 --> 00:27:46,036
IT'S JUST -- IT'S THE LAYOUT,

885
00:27:46,036 --> 00:27:49,139
IT'S THE HUNGRY POSTDOCS WHO

886
00:27:49,139 --> 00:27:50,440
WERE STEALING MY IDEAS.

887
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,642
SO YOU MOVED TO THE THIRD FLOOR,

888
00:27:52,642 --> 00:27:55,245
AND THEN YOU HEAR THAT SOMEONE

889
00:27:55,245 --> 00:27:56,213
ACTUALLY -- SOMEONE FROM NIH

890
00:27:56,213 --> 00:27:57,614
COMES TO VISIT YOU AND TELLS YOU

891
00:27:57,614 --> 00:27:59,416
THAT THERE'S A MAN FROM HARVARD

892
00:27:59,416 --> 00:28:00,150
MEDICAL SCHOOL WHO'S TRAVELING

893
00:28:00,150 --> 00:28:02,252
THE COUNTRY AND TAKING CREDIT

894
00:28:02,252 --> 00:28:04,788
FOR ONE OF YOUR BIGGEST

895
00:28:04,788 --> 00:28:05,088
DISCOVERIES.

896
00:28:05,088 --> 00:28:07,157
WHEN I LATER TALKED TO THAT MAN,

897
00:28:07,157 --> 00:28:08,892
HE SAID, WELL, SHE JUST WASN'T

898
00:28:08,892 --> 00:28:09,826
ON MY RADAR SCREEN.

899
00:28:09,826 --> 00:28:10,861
I HAD NO IDEA SHE WAS DOING

900
00:28:10,861 --> 00:28:11,428
THIS.

901
00:28:11,428 --> 00:28:12,729
I SAID, WELL, ISN'T THAT PART OF

902
00:28:12,729 --> 00:28:13,363
THE PROBLEM?

903
00:28:13,363 --> 00:28:14,231
>> THAT SAYS IT ALL.

904
00:28:14,231 --> 00:28:15,899
>> SO YOU MOVE FROM THE
FIFTH

905
00:28:15,899 --> 00:28:17,167
FLOOR TO THE THIRD FLOOR AND THE

906
00:28:17,167 --> 00:28:18,368
THIRD FLOOR YOU DISCOVER THIS

907
00:28:18,368 --> 00:28:19,736
GUY IS TAKING CREDIT FOR YOUR

908
00:28:19,736 --> 00:28:20,070
IDEAS.

909
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:21,805
THEN YOU DECIDE SOMETIME IN YOUR

910
00:28:21,805 --> 00:28:22,706
40s THAT YOU'RE GOING TO

911
00:28:22,706 --> 00:28:24,641
CHANGE FIELDS, WHICH IS VERY

912
00:28:24,641 --> 00:28:25,442
RISKY.

913
00:28:25,442 --> 00:28:27,644
BUT ALONG THIS -- AS THIS IS ALL

914
00:28:27,644 --> 00:28:29,212
HAPPENING AND YOU'RE TRYING TO

915
00:28:29,212 --> 00:28:31,248
SORT OF, YOU KNOW, DO THIS

916
00:28:31,248 --> 00:28:32,115
EXPERIMENT, IS IT GOING TO BE

917
00:28:32,115 --> 00:28:33,517
DIFFERENT FOR ME IN

918
00:28:33,517 --> 00:28:34,217
DEVELOPMENTAL BIOLOGY, WHICH IS

919
00:28:34,217 --> 00:28:36,820
A FIELD LED BY WOMEN, YOU ARE

920
00:28:36,820 --> 00:28:38,121
SEEING WHAT'S HAPPENING TO OTHER

921
00:28:38,121 --> 00:28:39,656
WOMEN AND YOU ALWAYS SAY THAT IT

922
00:28:39,656 --> 00:28:41,258
TOOK YOU 20 YEARS TO UNDERSTAND

923
00:28:41,258 --> 00:28:42,959
WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO YOU OR

924
00:28:42,959 --> 00:28:44,060
UNDERSTAND GENDER

925
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:45,795
DISCRIMINATION, AND IT TOOK YOU

926
00:28:45,795 --> 00:28:47,531
THE FIRST 15 TO SEE IT IN OTHER

927
00:28:47,531 --> 00:28:49,833
WOMEN, AND THEN ANOTHER FIVE.

928
00:28:49,833 --> 00:28:51,034
WHAT WERE YOU SEEING IN OTHER

929
00:28:51,034 --> 00:28:53,103
WOMEN, WHAT WERE YOU SEEING IN

930
00:28:53,103 --> 00:28:53,970
THE WAYS PEOPLE TREATED THEM?

931
00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:55,605
>> IT VERY HARD TO JUDGE

932
00:28:55,605 --> 00:28:57,674
YOURSELF SO I ALWAYS THOUGHT THE

933
00:28:57,674 --> 00:28:59,910
REAP YOUREASON YOU'RE HAVING THE

934
00:28:59,910 --> 00:29:01,545
PROBLEMS IS YOU'RE JUST NOT GOOD

935
00:29:01,545 --> 00:29:01,778
ENOUGH.

936
00:29:01,778 --> 00:29:05,081
IF YOU DID BETTER, THEN SURELY

937
00:29:05,081 --> 00:29:05,949
YOU WOULDN'T BE TREATED THIS

938
00:29:05,949 --> 00:29:06,983
WAY, YOU WOULD BE PART OF THE

939
00:29:06,983 --> 00:29:08,118
GROUP AND EVERYBODY WOULD ACCEPT

940
00:29:08,118 --> 00:29:08,885
YOU.

941
00:29:08,885 --> 00:29:09,986
SO -- BUT IT'S HARD TO BE

942
00:29:09,986 --> 00:29:11,454
OBJECTIVE ABOUT YOURSELF, SO I

943
00:29:11,454 --> 00:29:12,689
STARTED TO WATCH HOW OTHER WOMEN

944
00:29:12,689 --> 00:29:14,925
WERE TREATED TO SEE WHETHER OR

945
00:29:14,925 --> 00:29:16,526
NOT THERE REALLY WAS A PROBLEM.

946
00:29:16,526 --> 00:29:17,761
AND THERE WEREN'T VERY MANY

947
00:29:17,761 --> 00:29:19,396
WOMEN, WHICH IS WHY IT TOOK SO

948
00:29:19,396 --> 00:29:21,364
LONG.

949
00:29:21,364 --> 00:29:23,633
AND IN MY FIELD, THEY WERE

950
00:29:23,633 --> 00:29:25,068
SPREAD AROUND THE COUNTRY AND I

951
00:29:25,068 --> 00:29:26,169
WAS LOOKING -- BECAUSE YOU COULD

952
00:29:26,169 --> 00:29:27,370
JUDGE THE QUALITY OF THE WORK

953
00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:30,540
THEY DID, RIGHT, IF A MAN OR

954
00:29:30,540 --> 00:29:32,075
WOMAN DID EXPERIMENTS, MADE

955
00:29:32,075 --> 00:29:33,677
DISCOVERIES OF EQUAL IMPORTANCE,

956
00:29:33,677 --> 00:29:35,478
WERE THEY VALUED EQUALLY?

957
00:29:35,478 --> 00:29:36,580
DID PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEM IN

958
00:29:36,580 --> 00:29:38,014
THE SAME TERMS, DID THEY WIN THE

959
00:29:38,014 --> 00:29:39,749
SAME AWARDS, DID THEY GET THE

960
00:29:39,749 --> 00:29:41,084
SAME RECOGNITION?

961
00:29:41,084 --> 00:29:43,386
AND IT BECAME ABSOLUTELY CLEAR

962
00:29:43,386 --> 00:29:44,688
TO ME THAT NONE OF THEM WERE

963
00:29:44,688 --> 00:29:45,021
EQUAL.

964
00:29:45,021 --> 00:29:46,456
AND I DIDN'T THINK THEY KNEW.

965
00:29:46,456 --> 00:29:49,993
I MEAN, I THINK THEY HAD NO CLUE

966
00:29:49,993 --> 00:29:52,028
THEY WERE TREATED THAT WAY, THAT

967
00:29:52,028 --> 00:29:53,463
THEY WERE CLUELESS AS I WAS,

968
00:29:53,463 --> 00:29:54,664
THEY PROBABLY WEREN'T AWARE.

969
00:29:54,664 --> 00:29:56,633
SO I DIDN'T GO UP TO THEM AND

970
00:29:56,633 --> 00:29:58,168
SAY OH, BY THE WAY, DID YOU KNOW

971
00:29:58,168 --> 00:30:00,337
YOU'RE UNDERVALUED, YOU'RE BADLY

972
00:30:00,337 --> 00:30:01,338
TREATED, PEOPLE SPEAK THIS WAY

973
00:30:01,338 --> 00:30:02,772
BEHIND YOUR BACK?

974
00:30:02,772 --> 00:30:04,874
NO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SAY THAT

975
00:30:04,874 --> 00:30:06,376
SO I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO

976
00:30:06,376 --> 00:30:06,610
ANYBODY.

977
00:30:06,610 --> 00:30:09,112
SO IT TOOK 15 YEARS AND I

978
00:30:09,112 --> 00:30:11,314
REALIZED IT WAS EVERYBODY.

979
00:30:11,314 --> 00:30:12,949
EXCEPT MYSELF, I THOUGHT I WAS

980
00:30:12,949 --> 00:30:13,516
THE ONE EXCEPTION STILL.

981
00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:15,585
THEN I WAS REMOVED FROM TEACHING

982
00:30:15,585 --> 00:30:16,419
AT UNDERGRADUATE --

983
00:30:16,419 --> 00:30:18,855
>> WE'RE GOING TO GET TO
THAT.

984
00:30:18,855 --> 00:30:20,090
>> FINALLY I COULDN'T DENY
IT.

985
00:30:20,090 --> 00:30:21,191
COULDN'T DENY IT ANY LONGER.

986
00:30:21,191 --> 00:30:22,592
>> AND YOU START HEARING
PEOPLE

987
00:30:22,592 --> 00:30:25,161
SAY THINGS LIKE, LIKE ABOUT A

988
00:30:25,161 --> 00:30:27,430
PARTICULARLY SUCCESSFUL JUNIOR

989
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:29,065
FACULTY, SHE'S VERY GREEDY ABOUT

990
00:30:29,065 --> 00:30:31,268
HER GRANT, SHE'S GOT TOO MANY

991
00:30:31,268 --> 00:30:32,235
GRANTS.

992
00:30:32,235 --> 00:30:33,336
THE IDEA OF WOULD ANYONE EVER

993
00:30:33,336 --> 00:30:34,871
SAY THAT KIND OF THING ABOUT A

994
00:30:34,871 --> 00:30:37,173
MALE JUNIOR FACULTY MEMBER.

995
00:30:37,173 --> 00:30:38,808
SO YOU SWITCH FIELDS, AND YOU'RE

996
00:30:38,808 --> 00:30:40,143
GOING TO DO THIS EXPERIMENT

997
00:30:40,143 --> 00:30:41,578
BECAUSE, AGAIN, DEVELOPMENTAL --

998
00:30:41,578 --> 00:30:47,250
YOU GO TO -- YOU'RE ON

999
00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:48,985
SABBATICAL WITH YANNI.

1000
00:30:48,985 --> 00:30:50,620
SHE LATER WINS THE NOBEL PRIZE

1001
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:52,289
AND YOU COME BACK, YOU'RE ONE OF

1002
00:30:52,289 --> 00:30:53,256
THE FIRST RESEARCHERS IN THIS

1003
00:30:53,256 --> 00:30:55,692
COUNTRY TO WORK WITH ZEBRAFISH,

1004
00:30:55,692 --> 00:30:57,360
AND THE EXPERIMENTS ARE GOING

1005
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,729
VERY WELL, BUT THAT'S WHEN SORT

1006
00:30:59,729 --> 00:31:01,064
OF, US A SAY, THE PENNY BEGINS

1007
00:31:01,064 --> 00:31:01,498
TO DROP.

1008
00:31:01,498 --> 00:31:02,832
YOU BEGIN TO SEE IT'S HAPPENING

1009
00:31:02,832 --> 00:31:03,433
TO YOU AS WELL.

1010
00:31:03,433 --> 00:31:05,535
>> WELL, YES, I COULDN'T
GET

1011
00:31:05,535 --> 00:31:07,804
MINIMAL SPACE AND I HAD LESS

1012
00:31:07,804 --> 00:31:09,873
SPACE THAN STARTING ASSISTANT

1013
00:31:09,873 --> 00:31:11,341
PROFESSORS AND I WAS A TENURED

1014
00:31:11,341 --> 00:31:12,108
PROFESSOR BY THEN.

1015
00:31:12,108 --> 00:31:13,977
YES, IT WAS A VERY RISKY THING

1016
00:31:13,977 --> 00:31:14,311
TO DO.

1017
00:31:14,311 --> 00:31:15,845
I COULD UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE

1018
00:31:15,845 --> 00:31:17,947
WEREN'T SUPPORTING -- CHANGE

1019
00:31:17,947 --> 00:31:19,182
FIELDS AT MID LIFE, AGE 50 HAD

1020
00:31:19,182 --> 00:31:20,517
BEEN SOMETHING, SO IT WAS

1021
00:31:20,517 --> 00:31:20,884
UNDERSTANDABLE.

1022
00:31:20,884 --> 00:31:22,819
BUT I WAS ASKING FOR SO LITTLE

1023
00:31:22,819 --> 00:31:24,421
AND I'D NEVER ASKED FOR ANYTHING

1024
00:31:24,421 --> 00:31:25,455
BEFORE, SO YET I COULDN'T GET

1025
00:31:25,455 --> 00:31:25,889
IT.

1026
00:31:25,889 --> 00:31:27,324
SO THAT WAS A REAL EYE OPENER.

1027
00:31:27,324 --> 00:31:29,192
THAT LED TO THE MEASURING OF THE

1028
00:31:29,192 --> 00:31:29,592
LABS.

1029
00:31:29,592 --> 00:31:30,894
I SAID TO THE MAN IN CHARGE OF

1030
00:31:30,894 --> 00:31:32,462
SPACE, I SAID, I HAVE LESS SPACE

1031
00:31:32,462 --> 00:31:33,663
THAN EVERY -- HE SAID YOU KNOW

1032
00:31:33,663 --> 00:31:34,431
THAT'S NOT TRUE.

1033
00:31:34,431 --> 00:31:35,832
I SAID IT TRUE.

1034
00:31:35,832 --> 00:31:36,933
HE SAID NO, IT'S NOT.

1035
00:31:36,933 --> 00:31:38,168
I SAID YES IT IS.

1036
00:31:38,168 --> 00:31:40,337
IT WAS RIDICULOUS, IT WAS SO

1037
00:31:40,337 --> 00:31:40,804
OBVIOUS.

1038
00:31:40,804 --> 00:31:42,105
I THOUGHT I'LL SHOW HIM, I'LL

1039
00:31:42,105 --> 00:31:43,306
GET THE DATA, I'LL MEASURE ALL

1040
00:31:43,306 --> 00:31:44,641
THESE LABS, SHOW HIM THE NUMBERS

1041
00:31:44,641 --> 00:31:48,144
AND HE WON'T BE ABLE TO ARGUE

1042
00:31:48,144 --> 00:31:49,112
WITH ME ANYMORE.

1043
00:31:49,112 --> 00:31:50,046
BUT OF COURSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO

1044
00:31:50,046 --> 00:31:50,914
LOOK HE IT NUMBERS.

1045
00:31:50,914 --> 00:31:54,250
>> SO YOU GO SEE A LAWYER
AT

1046
00:31:54,250 --> 00:31:55,452
THIS POINT, AND ON THE ADVICE OF

1047
00:31:55,452 --> 00:31:59,155
A FRIEND, I THINK, RIGHT?

1048
00:31:59,155 --> 00:32:00,523
AND THE LAWYER SAYS TO YOU, TRY

1049
00:32:00,523 --> 00:32:01,925
TO WORK IT OUT WITHIN -- I HAVE

1050
00:32:01,925 --> 00:32:02,992
THE RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE AT

1051
00:32:02,992 --> 00:32:04,027
M.I.T., HE'D WORKED WITH THEM

1052
00:32:04,027 --> 00:32:05,695
BEFORE, TRY TO GO WORK IT OUT

1053
00:32:05,695 --> 00:32:06,596
WITH M.I.T. AND HE TELLS YOU TO

1054
00:32:06,596 --> 00:32:08,832
GO SEE THE PROVOST, AND YOU ARE

1055
00:32:08,832 --> 00:32:10,834
SO PLUGGED IN TO YOUR SCIENCE

1056
00:32:10,834 --> 00:32:12,168
AND SO NOT PLUGGED INTO

1057
00:32:12,168 --> 00:32:13,036
UNIVERSITY POLITICS THAT YOU

1058
00:32:13,036 --> 00:32:14,971
DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO THE PROVOST

1059
00:32:14,971 --> 00:32:15,138
IS.

1060
00:32:15,138 --> 00:32:16,306
>> RIGHT.

1061
00:32:16,306 --> 00:32:17,707
>> SO WHEN YOU GO SEE HIM,
HE IS

1062
00:32:17,707 --> 00:32:22,345
A LITTLE BEE BILL  BEWILDERED, ?

1063
00:32:22,345 --> 00:32:24,247
HE'S NEVER SEEN ANYONE ASK FOR

1064
00:32:24,247 --> 00:32:24,514
SO LITTLE?

1065
00:32:24,514 --> 00:32:26,583
>> HE SAID 200 SQUARE
FEET?

1066
00:32:26,583 --> 00:32:28,017
PEOPLE COME TO SEE ME ASKING FOR

1067
00:32:28,017 --> 00:32:28,718
WHOLE BUILDINGS.

1068
00:32:28,718 --> 00:32:30,553
YOU WANT 200 SQUARE FEET?

1069
00:32:30,553 --> 00:32:31,654
HE COULDN'T RELATE TO IT.

1070
00:32:31,654 --> 00:32:32,689
I MEAN, HE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT

1071
00:32:32,689 --> 00:32:33,890
I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

1072
00:32:33,890 --> 00:32:35,225
EXPWR 

1073
00:32:35,225 --> 00:32:36,793
>> AND THE LAWYER HAS TOLD
YOU

1074
00:32:36,793 --> 00:32:37,694
THAT IF THINGS DON'T GO THE

1075
00:32:37,694 --> 00:32:39,462
RIGHT WAY, YOU HAVE TO USE A

1076
00:32:39,462 --> 00:32:41,431
PARTICULAR WORD, WHICH YOU ARE

1077
00:32:41,431 --> 00:32:42,665
UNCOMFORTABLE USING, RIGHT?

1078
00:32:42,665 --> 00:32:44,300
>> THAT'S RIGHT.

1079
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:45,602
SHE KNOWS MORE ABOUT MY LIFE

1080
00:32:45,602 --> 00:32:47,771
THAN I DO.

1081
00:32:47,771 --> 00:32:50,640
YES, HE SAID JUST USE THE WORD

1082
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,040
"DISCRIMINATION."

1083
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,375
IF THEY'RE NOT RESPONDING

1084
00:32:52,375 --> 00:32:53,810
POSITIVELY FAST ENOUGH, JUST SAY

1085
00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:54,377
DISCRIMINATION.

1086
00:32:54,377 --> 00:32:56,012
>> SO YOU SAY THIS TO THE

1087
00:32:56,012 --> 00:32:57,747
PROVOST, AND HE --

1088
00:32:57,747 --> 00:32:58,715
>> TELL YOU WHAT I'M GOING
TO DO

1089
00:32:58,715 --> 00:33:00,617
FOR YOU, LITTLE LADY.

1090
00:33:00,617 --> 00:33:02,252
I'M GOING TO FIX THIS RIGHT UP.

1091
00:33:02,252 --> 00:33:02,519
[LAUGHTER]

1092
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:03,653
>> AND HE TELLS TO YOU GO
TALK

1093
00:33:03,653 --> 00:33:05,088
TO THE DEAN OF SCIENCE, WHO ALSO

1094
00:33:05,088 --> 00:33:08,258
KIND OF BLOWS YOU OFF, UNTIL YOU

1095
00:33:08,258 --> 00:33:08,892
SAY THE D WORD.

1096
00:33:08,892 --> 00:33:11,361
>> DISCRIMINATION -- OH,
HE

1097
00:33:11,361 --> 00:33:12,529
COMES RUNNING DOWN THE HALL

1098
00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:13,897
AFTER ME, I THINK WE CAN FIX

1099
00:33:13,897 --> 00:33:14,497
THIS PROBLEM.

1100
00:33:14,497 --> 00:33:16,833
>> AS SHE'S WALKING OUT
THE

1101
00:33:16,833 --> 00:33:19,536
DOOR, SHE SAYS IS MIGHT BE

1102
00:33:19,536 --> 00:33:21,004
DISCRIMINATION, AND HE CHASES

1103
00:33:21,004 --> 00:33:21,771
HER OUT THE DOOR.

1104
00:33:21,771 --> 00:33:23,206
SO YOU HAD THIS SPACE PROBLEM

1105
00:33:23,206 --> 00:33:24,374
AND YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE THE

1106
00:33:24,374 --> 00:33:25,608
SPACE PROBLEM AND AS YOU'RE

1107
00:33:25,608 --> 00:33:26,476
TRYING TO SOLVE THE SPACE

1108
00:33:26,476 --> 00:33:27,477
PROBLEM YOU'RE GOING THROUGH ALL

1109
00:33:27,477 --> 00:33:28,545
THESE DOCUMENTS, TRYING TO GET

1110
00:33:28,545 --> 00:33:29,546
INFORMATION AND YOU DISCOVER

1111
00:33:29,546 --> 00:33:30,980
THAT, IN FACT, YOU'RE ALSO

1112
00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:31,848
UNDERPAID.

1113
00:33:31,848 --> 00:33:33,483
YOU'RE PAYING MORE OF YOUR OWN

1114
00:33:33,483 --> 00:33:34,684
SALARY FROM GRANTS THAN OTHER

1115
00:33:34,684 --> 00:33:36,486
MEN IN THE DEPARTMENT.

1116
00:33:36,486 --> 00:33:38,455
SO YOU'RE NOW TRYING TO FIX

1117
00:33:38,455 --> 00:33:40,056
THOSE TWO PROBLEMS, AND AS THOSE

1118
00:33:40,056 --> 00:33:41,391
TWO PROBLEMS, WE'RE NOT SURE

1119
00:33:41,391 --> 00:33:42,158
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, YOU

1120
00:33:42,158 --> 00:33:43,259
THINK YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE

1121
00:33:43,259 --> 00:33:45,094
SPACE, I GUESS YOU DO GET THE

1122
00:33:45,094 --> 00:33:46,262
SPACE, AND -- WELL, ACTUALLY

1123
00:33:46,262 --> 00:33:47,530
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SPACE, WHAT

1124
00:33:47,530 --> 00:33:49,732
DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE WAY MEN

1125
00:33:49,732 --> 00:33:51,267
COMPETE FOR SPACE AND IN

1126
00:33:51,267 --> 00:33:53,236
PARTICULAR, YOU HAD AN ALLY

1127
00:33:53,236 --> 00:33:55,638
EARLY ON, SUSUMO, WHO WAS TRYING

1128
00:33:55,638 --> 00:33:56,873
TO HELP YOU, AND WHAT WAS HIS

1129
00:33:56,873 --> 00:33:57,874
APPROACH TO GETTING MORE SPACE?

1130
00:33:57,874 --> 00:34:01,678
>> JUST OCCUPY IT.

1131
00:34:01,678 --> 00:34:04,647
JUST TAKE IT.

1132
00:34:04,647 --> 00:34:05,515
AND ONE VERY MUCH ADMIRED

1133
00:34:05,515 --> 00:34:06,649
EXAMPLE WAS IN THE SCHOOL OF

1134
00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:07,617
ENGINEERING WHERE A MAN NEEDED

1135
00:34:07,617 --> 00:34:09,552
MORE SPACE, HE TOOK A

1136
00:34:09,552 --> 00:34:11,120
SLEDGEHAMMER AND JUST KNOCKED

1137
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:11,754
THE WALL DOWN BETWEEN HIS LAB

1138
00:34:11,754 --> 00:34:13,756
AND THE ONE NEXT DOOR AND

1139
00:34:13,756 --> 00:34:14,924
OCCUPIED THE SPACE ADJACENT.

1140
00:34:14,924 --> 00:34:16,292
SO IT WAS A MORE AGGRESSIVE

1141
00:34:16,292 --> 00:34:16,960
APPROACH.

1142
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,695
>> SO THEY WOULD SIT
AROUND WITH

1143
00:34:18,695 --> 00:34:19,662
THESE -- HE WOULD HAVE LIKE

1144
00:34:19,662 --> 00:34:20,663
THESE LITTLE FLOOR PLANS AND

1145
00:34:20,663 --> 00:34:22,198
HE'D BE CUTTING OUT LITTLE

1146
00:34:22,198 --> 00:34:24,067
FURNITURE MOVING -- LIKE IMAGINE

1147
00:34:24,067 --> 00:34:25,068
A NOBEL PRIZE WINNER, THIS IS

1148
00:34:25,068 --> 00:34:26,703
HOW HE'S SPENDING HIS TIME,

1149
00:34:26,703 --> 00:34:27,704
LOOKING AT FLOOR PLANS.

1150
00:34:27,704 --> 00:34:29,105
>> MEASURING ALL COLORS
AND

1151
00:34:29,105 --> 00:34:30,473
MOVING THE ROOMS -- IT WAS --

1152
00:34:30,473 --> 00:34:31,908
>> AND HE GOT A BUNCH OF
DEAD

1153
00:34:31,908 --> 00:34:33,109
EQUIPMENT AND MOVED IT INTO THE

1154
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:34,143
SPACE IN CASE HE MIGHT NEED IT

1155
00:34:34,143 --> 00:34:35,078
IN THE FUTURE.

1156
00:34:35,078 --> 00:34:37,380
AND AT THAT POINT, NANCY WAS NOT

1157
00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:41,251
ALLOWED TO HAVE THE SPACE.

1158
00:34:41,251 --> 00:34:42,785
SO THOSE PROBLEMS, YOU'RE JUST

1159
00:34:42,785 --> 00:34:44,187
ABOUT TO GET THE SPACE, THINGS

1160
00:34:44,187 --> 00:34:45,588
ARE LOOKING A LITTLE BETTER THEN

1161
00:34:45,588 --> 00:34:46,689
SOMEBODY ELSE HAPPENS WHICH IS

1162
00:34:46,689 --> 00:34:49,993
THAT YOU'VE BEEN ASKED TO

1163
00:34:49,993 --> 00:34:51,427
DEVELOP A COURSE FOR M.I.T.,

1164
00:34:51,427 --> 00:34:52,629
IT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT M.I.T.

1165
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:54,731
IS GOING TO REQUIRE

1166
00:34:54,731 --> 00:34:57,567
UNDERGRADUATES TO TAKE BIOLOGY,

1167
00:34:57,567 --> 00:34:58,134
PREVIOUSLY THE REQUIREMENTS

1168
00:34:58,134 --> 00:34:59,536
WERE, I BELIEVE, CALCULUS,

1169
00:34:59,536 --> 00:35:00,503
PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY.

1170
00:35:00,503 --> 00:35:01,804
SO THIS IS GOING TO BE BIOLOGY

1171
00:35:01,804 --> 00:35:06,276
FOR ALL YO YO UNDERGRADUATES.

1172
00:35:06,276 --> 00:35:08,978
YOU'VE ALREADY TAUGHT A CLASS

1173
00:35:08,978 --> 00:35:10,980
FOR NON-BIOMAJORS THAT GOT THE

1174
00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:12,181
HIGHEST STUDENT RATINGS IN THE

1175
00:35:12,181 --> 00:35:12,582
ENTIRE DEPARTMENT.

1176
00:35:12,582 --> 00:35:14,350
SO YOU THINK GREAT, I'M

1177
00:35:14,350 --> 00:35:15,018
PERFECTLY POSITIONED TO TEACH

1178
00:35:15,018 --> 00:35:15,685
THIS CLASS.

1179
00:35:15,685 --> 00:35:17,020
ONCE AGAIN YOU THINK YOU ARE THE

1180
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:17,787
EXCEPTION, THERE'S NOT GOING TO

1181
00:35:17,787 --> 00:35:19,088
BE ANY PROBLEM WITH YOU.

1182
00:35:19,088 --> 00:35:20,523
SO TELL US WHAT HAPPENS WITH

1183
00:35:20,523 --> 00:35:21,057
THIS CLASS.

1184
00:35:21,057 --> 00:35:22,358
IS IT A HIT?

1185
00:35:22,358 --> 00:35:23,560
>> THE CLASS WORKS OUT
VERY

1186
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:23,760
WELL.

1187
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,094
I HAVE TO SAY THAT I WAS

1188
00:35:25,094 --> 00:35:26,129
ASSIGNED TO TEACH IT WITH A

1189
00:35:26,129 --> 00:35:28,197
PERSON WHO IS ONE OF THE BEST

1190
00:35:28,197 --> 00:35:30,066
LECTURERS I THE DEPARTMENT EVER

1191
00:35:30,066 --> 00:35:31,668
HAD BUT THE CLASS STRUCTURE AND

1192
00:35:31,668 --> 00:35:33,536
EVERYTHING WE WORKED OUT

1193
00:35:33,536 --> 00:35:34,904
TOGETHER, THE CLASS WAS

1194
00:35:34,904 --> 00:35:36,072
SUCCESSFUL ALL THE WAY AND

1195
00:35:36,072 --> 00:35:38,074
SUDDENLY I WAS UNCEREMONIOUSLY

1196
00:35:38,074 --> 00:35:38,308
DUMPED.

1197
00:35:38,308 --> 00:35:39,375
>> THE DEPARTMENT HEAD WHO
SAID

1198
00:35:39,375 --> 00:35:41,844
TO YOU, GREAT JOB, WE LOVE THIS

1199
00:35:41,844 --> 00:35:42,912
CLASS, SAYS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO

1200
00:35:42,912 --> 00:35:45,081
TEACH THE CLASS BECAUSE --

1201
00:35:45,081 --> 00:35:46,482
>> BECAUSE THE PERSON I

1202
00:35:46,482 --> 00:35:48,284
CO-DEVELOPED IT WITH DECIDED

1203
00:35:48,284 --> 00:35:49,385
THAT HE PREFERRED TO TEACH WITH

1204
00:35:49,385 --> 00:35:50,420
A MAN BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING TO

1205
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:51,287
TURN THIS INTO A COMPANY.

1206
00:35:51,287 --> 00:35:52,789
THEY WERE GOING TO USE THE CLASS

1207
00:35:52,789 --> 00:35:54,891
AS A PLATFORM TO MAKE A COMPANY

1208
00:35:54,891 --> 00:35:58,061
AND SELL CD-ROMS, BOOKS AND SO

1209
00:35:58,061 --> 00:35:58,695
FORTH AND SO ON.

1210
00:35:58,695 --> 00:36:00,263
I SAID, WHAT?

1211
00:36:00,263 --> 00:36:02,999
HE SAID, WELL, ASK, YOU KNOW, MY

1212
00:36:02,999 --> 00:36:04,100
BUDDY, I'M GOING TO -- SO I

1213
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:05,401
CALLED UP THE OTHER MAN, I SAID

1214
00:36:05,401 --> 00:36:06,502
I GATHER YOU'RE GOING TO TEACH

1215
00:36:06,502 --> 00:36:07,437
THIS CLASS?

1216
00:36:07,437 --> 00:36:08,338
AND YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A

1217
00:36:08,338 --> 00:36:08,638
COMPANY?

1218
00:36:08,638 --> 00:36:09,939
HE SAID, LET ME COME CLEAN WITH

1219
00:36:09,939 --> 00:36:10,306
YOU.

1220
00:36:10,306 --> 00:36:11,841
WE PLAN TO MAKE MILLIONS.

1221
00:36:11,841 --> 00:36:13,643
I SAID, OKAY, WELL, BUT WHAT

1222
00:36:13,643 --> 00:36:14,143
ABOUT ME?

1223
00:36:14,143 --> 00:36:16,446
I MEAN, I USED TO TEACH THIS

1224
00:36:16,446 --> 00:36:16,646
CLASS.

1225
00:36:16,646 --> 00:36:16,980
ANYWAY, SO --

1226
00:36:16,980 --> 00:36:18,281
>> YOU WEREN'T GOING TO
GET THE

1227
00:36:18,281 --> 00:36:18,548
MILLIONS?

1228
00:36:18,548 --> 00:36:20,316
>> I WASN'T INVOLVED IN
THE

1229
00:36:20,316 --> 00:36:20,650
MILLIONS.

1230
00:36:20,650 --> 00:36:22,385
WHEN IT CAME TO MAKING MONEY,

1231
00:36:22,385 --> 00:36:24,153
WOMEN WERE SELDOM INVOLVED.

1232
00:36:24,153 --> 00:36:25,355
ANYWAY, I WAS REMOVED FROM

1233
00:36:25,355 --> 00:36:27,423
TEACHING THE CLASS AND THAT WAS

1234
00:36:27,423 --> 00:36:28,324
THE END.

1235
00:36:28,324 --> 00:36:29,192
THAT WAS IT FOR ME.

1236
00:36:29,192 --> 00:36:30,493
I SAID I'M DONE.

1237
00:36:30,493 --> 00:36:30,960
I GIVE UP.

1238
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,029
I MEAN, NO MATTER WHAT I DID, I

1239
00:36:33,029 --> 00:36:35,465
FELT THAT IT WOULD NEVER BE GOOD

1240
00:36:35,465 --> 00:36:36,766
ENOUGH AT M.I.T.

1241
00:36:36,766 --> 00:36:40,236
AND I REALIZED BY THAT POINT,

1242
00:36:40,236 --> 00:36:42,271
THERE WAS NO EXPLANATION LEFT

1243
00:36:42,271 --> 00:36:43,039
EXCEPT YOU WERE A WOMAN.

1244
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:45,108
I MEAN, I TRIED THEM ALL, I

1245
00:36:45,108 --> 00:36:46,876
CHANGED FIELDS, I DID THIS, I

1246
00:36:46,876 --> 00:36:50,847
DID THAT, AND I SAW ALL OTHER

1247
00:36:50,847 --> 00:36:52,915
WOMEN, I MUST ALSO BE VIEWED BY

1248
00:36:52,915 --> 00:36:53,883
MY COLLEAGUES THE WAY THESE

1249
00:36:53,883 --> 00:36:54,884
OTHER WOMEN WERE VIEWED.

1250
00:36:54,884 --> 00:36:55,985
AND THAT WAS THE LOW POINT OF

1251
00:36:55,985 --> 00:36:57,320
THE ENTIRE EXERCISE, I HAVE TO

1252
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:57,553
SAY.

1253
00:36:57,553 --> 00:36:59,622
THE MOMENT WHEN YOU ACCEPT THE

1254
00:36:59,622 --> 00:37:01,257
FACT THAT YOU ARE NOT VIEWED AS

1255
00:37:01,257 --> 00:37:02,358
AN EQUAL BY YOUR COLLEAGUES,

1256
00:37:02,358 --> 00:37:03,993
THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY EITHER

1257
00:37:03,993 --> 00:37:05,328
INVISIBLE OR YOU'RE DISCOUNTED

1258
00:37:05,328 --> 00:37:08,031
IN SOME WAY THAT YOU NEVER --

1259
00:37:08,031 --> 00:37:11,134
IT'S HARD TO ACCEPT.

1260
00:37:11,134 --> 00:37:12,802
AND THAT WAS THE LOW POINT OF

1261
00:37:12,802 --> 00:37:13,202
THE WHOLE THING.

1262
00:37:13,202 --> 00:37:14,837
AT THAT POINT I REALIZED I

1263
00:37:14,837 --> 00:37:16,039
COULDN'T CONTINUE TO DO THE JOB

1264
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:17,306
UNLESS SOMETHING CHANGED.

1265
00:37:17,306 --> 00:37:20,443
>> BUT THAT -- IT PAINFUL

1266
00:37:20,443 --> 00:37:21,444
ACTUALLY EVEN HAVING WRITTEN THE

1267
00:37:21,444 --> 00:37:22,845
BOOK AND HAVING HEARD THE STORY

1268
00:37:22,845 --> 00:37:24,280
SO MANY TIMES AND RETOLD THE

1269
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,481
STORY, IT IS STILL PAINFUL TO

1270
00:37:25,481 --> 00:37:27,583
HEAR IT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT

1271
00:37:27,583 --> 00:37:31,521
FEELING OF INVISIBILITY IS EUN

1272
00:37:31,521 --> 00:37:33,690
UNIVERSAL FOR A LOT OF WOMEN AT

1273
00:37:33,690 --> 00:37:34,824
A CERTAIN POINT IN THEIR CAREER.

1274
00:37:34,824 --> 00:37:35,958
BUT THERE WAS A PARTICULAR

1275
00:37:35,958 --> 00:37:37,060
THING, THIS WAS THE EPISODE THAT

1276
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:38,695
REALLY SNAPPED YOUR FAITH IN THE

1277
00:37:38,695 --> 00:37:40,029
MERITOCRACY, AND IT REALLY WAS

1278
00:37:40,029 --> 00:37:41,664
BECAUSE YOU WERE LOOKING AT

1279
00:37:41,664 --> 00:37:42,865
THESE STUDENT EVALUATIONS.

1280
00:37:42,865 --> 00:37:44,567
>> YES, I HAVE THEM WITH
ME IN

1281
00:37:44,567 --> 00:37:47,503
CASE ANYBODY -- I STILL CARRY

1282
00:37:47,503 --> 00:37:48,604
THEM AROUND, IN CASE ANYBODY

1283
00:37:48,604 --> 00:37:49,939
NEEDS TO SEE THAT IT WAS REALLY

1284
00:37:49,939 --> 00:37:50,406
NOT FAIR.

1285
00:37:50,406 --> 00:37:52,341
>> SO YOU -- AGAIN, LIKE
YOU

1286
00:37:52,341 --> 00:37:56,312
REALLY -- YOU JUST -- YOU WERE

1287
00:37:56,312 --> 00:37:57,647
SO -- YOU STUCK BY YOUR

1288
00:37:57,647 --> 00:37:59,382
SCIENTIFIC INSTINCTS WHICH WERE,

1289
00:37:59,382 --> 00:38:00,149
WAIT, THIS IS ACTUALLY PROOF

1290
00:38:00,149 --> 00:38:00,983
THIS IS NOT THE SAME.

1291
00:38:00,983 --> 00:38:02,585
>> I THOUGHT DATA WOULD BE

1292
00:38:02,585 --> 00:38:04,554
SUFFICIENT, BUT IT'S NOT, EVEN

1293
00:38:04,554 --> 00:38:06,422
THAT'S NOT SUFFICIENT TO

1294
00:38:06,422 --> 00:38:07,857
CONVINCE PEOPLE.

1295
00:38:07,857 --> 00:38:08,624
SO THERE YOU ARE.

1296
00:38:08,624 --> 00:38:10,693
SO THEN I KNEW I HAD TO FIGHT

1297
00:38:10,693 --> 00:38:12,228
AND I FIGURED I'M FIGHTING

1298
00:38:12,228 --> 00:38:13,296
ALONE, MY PLAN WAS TO GO UP

1299
00:38:13,296 --> 00:38:14,464
THROUGH THE LAYERS OF

1300
00:38:14,464 --> 00:38:15,198
ADMINISTRATION, TRYING TO FIND

1301
00:38:15,198 --> 00:38:18,234
SOMEBODY WHO WOULD LISTEN AND

1302
00:38:18,234 --> 00:38:19,602
UNDERSTAND, AND THAT FAILING, I

1303
00:38:19,602 --> 00:38:21,471
ASSUMED I WOULD GO ON AND SUE

1304
00:38:21,471 --> 00:38:22,705
M.I.T. AND I'D BE DOING THIS

1305
00:38:22,705 --> 00:38:24,674
ALONE, WHICH WAS NOT A HAPPY

1306
00:38:24,674 --> 00:38:25,641
PROSPECT, BUT THERE DIDN'T SEEM

1307
00:38:25,641 --> 00:38:27,310
TO BE ANY OTHER CHOICE EXCEPT

1308
00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:28,411
QUIT SCIENCE ALL TOGETHER, WHICH

1309
00:38:28,411 --> 00:38:29,445
I WAS TOO YOUNG.

1310
00:38:29,445 --> 00:38:31,380
IF I'D BEEN RICH, I PROBABLY

1311
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:33,683
WOULD HAVE WALKED OUT THE DOOR

1312
00:38:33,683 --> 00:38:35,051
AND SAID THE HELL WITH THIS BUT

1313
00:38:35,051 --> 00:38:36,352
I REALLY NEEDED A JOB.

1314
00:38:36,352 --> 00:38:38,321
SO ANYWAY, THAT WAS THE PLAN.

1315
00:38:38,321 --> 00:38:39,655
AND THEN --

1316
00:38:39,655 --> 00:38:42,191
>> SO YOU CONSIDER SUING,
BUT

1317
00:38:42,191 --> 00:38:43,159
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SUE ONE

1318
00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:44,460
OF YOUR OLDEST FRIENDS IN

1319
00:38:44,460 --> 00:38:45,695
SCIENCE, WHO IS THE DEPARTMENT

1320
00:38:45,695 --> 00:38:47,363
HEAD, LIKE THIS IS GOING TO BE

1321
00:38:47,363 --> 00:38:48,498
VERY UNPLEASANT, YOU PROBABLY

1322
00:38:48,498 --> 00:38:49,599
WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE SCIENCE IF

1323
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:50,333
ONLY FOR THAT REASON.

1324
00:38:50,333 --> 00:38:51,768
>> IT WOULD PROBABLY
DESTROY

1325
00:38:51,768 --> 00:38:52,935
YOUR CAREER, PRETTY CERTAIN IT

1326
00:38:52,935 --> 00:38:54,070
WAS GOING TO BE THE END OF YOUR

1327
00:38:54,070 --> 00:38:54,604
CAREER IF YOU SUED.

1328
00:38:54,604 --> 00:38:56,939
>> SO INSTEAD YOU WRITE A
LETTER

1329
00:38:56,939 --> 00:38:57,974
TO THE PRESIDENT, AGAIN, YOU

1330
00:38:57,974 --> 00:38:58,374
DON'T KNOW HIM.

1331
00:38:58,374 --> 00:38:59,142
>> LAST CHANCE.

1332
00:38:59,142 --> 00:39:01,244
THE PRESIDENT OF M.I.T.

1333
00:39:01,244 --> 00:39:03,412
A SITDOWN.

1334
00:39:03,412 --> 00:39:04,714
HERE, MR. VEST, PRESIDENT VEST.

1335
00:39:04,714 --> 00:39:06,249
>> I LOVE THIS LETTER
BECAUSE IN

1336
00:39:06,249 --> 00:39:08,618
IT, AGAIN, SHE'S SO CUT OUT FROM

1337
00:39:08,618 --> 00:39:09,185
UNIVERSITY -- SEPARATE FROM

1338
00:39:09,185 --> 00:39:11,053
UNIVERSITY POLITICS, THAT YOU

1339
00:39:11,053 --> 00:39:12,355
ARE SO WORRIED HE WON'T EVEN

1340
00:39:12,355 --> 00:39:13,589
KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

1341
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:14,924
I'M NANCY HOPKINS, I'M A BIOLOGY

1342
00:39:14,924 --> 00:39:16,459
PROFESSOR, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE

1343
00:39:16,459 --> 00:39:17,794
REALLY -- THIS IS REALLY A STAB

1344
00:39:17,794 --> 00:39:18,528
IN THE DAK FOR YOU.

1345
00:39:18,528 --> 00:39:24,167
DARK FOR YOU.>>  I'M SURE
YOU DT

1346
00:39:24,167 --> 00:39:24,967
BUT THERE'S TERRIBLE

1347
00:39:24,967 --> 00:39:25,601
DISCRIMINATION IN YOUR

1348
00:39:25,601 --> 00:39:26,803
DEPARTMENT AND YOU SHOULD KNOW

1349
00:39:26,803 --> 00:39:27,470
ABOUT IT.

1350
00:39:27,470 --> 00:39:29,005
I SHOWED TO A FRIEND, A MAN I

1351
00:39:29,005 --> 00:39:29,906
WAS DATING AND HE SAID YOU'RE

1352
00:39:29,906 --> 00:39:31,073
NOT GOING TO SEND THAT, ARE YOU?

1353
00:39:31,073 --> 00:39:32,975
I SAID I WAS PLANNING TO SEND

1354
00:39:32,975 --> 00:39:33,342
IT.

1355
00:39:33,342 --> 00:39:36,479
HE SAID OH, HE'LL THINK YOUR

1356
00:39:36,479 --> 00:39:38,915
CRAZY, HE WON'T KNOW YOU YOU

1357
00:39:38,915 --> 00:39:41,117
ARE, HE'LL THINK YOU'RE A

1358
00:39:41,117 --> 00:39:42,185
DIFFICULT PERSON AND DISCOUNT

1359
00:39:42,185 --> 00:39:42,351
YOU.

1360
00:39:42,351 --> 00:39:47,023
>> AGAIN -- A FAILURE OF
YOUR

1361
00:39:47,023 --> 00:39:47,356
SCIENCE.

1362
00:39:47,356 --> 00:39:48,925
SO YOU DECIDE YOU'RE NOT GOING

1363
00:39:48,925 --> 00:39:50,226
TO SEND A LETTER TO THE

1364
00:39:50,226 --> 00:39:51,427
PRESIDENT YET, YOU'RE GOING TO

1365
00:39:51,427 --> 00:39:52,628
TAKE ONE LAST STEP WHICH IS TO

1366
00:39:52,628 --> 00:39:54,664
CONSULT ANOTHER WOMAN IN

1367
00:39:54,664 --> 00:39:56,866
BIOLOGY, AND FOR THAT, YOU

1368
00:39:56,866 --> 00:39:58,000
CHOOSE WHO AND WHY?

1369
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,039
>> SO I SAID I BETTER GET
AN

1370
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:04,373
OFFICIAL OPINION FROM SOMEBODY

1371
00:40:04,373 --> 00:40:05,708
INSIDE THE SYSTEM AND THEY'LL

1372
00:40:05,708 --> 00:40:07,510
KNOW IF THIS IS A SERIOUS LETTER

1373
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:08,811
THAT THE MAN WOULD READ

1374
00:40:08,811 --> 00:40:10,680
CAREFULLY AND TAKE SERIOUSLY OR

1375
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:11,681
OFFEND HIM IN ANY WAY.

1376
00:40:11,681 --> 00:40:13,115
I PICK OUT THIS WOMAN I HAD

1377
00:40:13,115 --> 00:40:14,317
ADMIRED BEFORE I EVEN WENT TO

1378
00:40:14,317 --> 00:40:15,618
M.I.T., BEFORE I EVEN MET HER.

1379
00:40:15,618 --> 00:40:17,186
I HAPPENED TO READ A PAPER OF

1380
00:40:17,186 --> 00:40:19,522
HERS IN A JOURNAL WHEN I WAS A

1381
00:40:19,522 --> 00:40:21,023
STUDENT IN TRAINING AND SAID

1382
00:40:21,023 --> 00:40:22,425
WOW, SHE'S AMAZING.

1383
00:40:22,425 --> 00:40:26,562
AND THEN I, ORVETION OF COURSE,,

1384
00:40:26,562 --> 00:40:28,331
SHE WAS A PROFESSOR HIRED BY

1385
00:40:28,331 --> 00:40:29,432
M.I.T. SHORTLY BEFORE I WAS

1386
00:40:29,432 --> 00:40:29,866
HIRED.

1387
00:40:29,866 --> 00:40:34,136
AND HER NAME WAS MARY LOU PARDU,

1388
00:40:34,136 --> 00:40:36,439
A DEVELOPMENTAL BIOLOGY, WORKS

1389
00:40:36,439 --> 00:40:37,240
IN FRUIT FLIES.

1390
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,308
SHE WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT I

1391
00:40:39,308 --> 00:40:43,145
HAD A HUGE ADMIRATION FOR, AND I

1392
00:40:43,145 --> 00:40:45,348
HAD SEEN HOW ALTHOUGH SHE WAS

1393
00:40:45,348 --> 00:40:46,249
RESPECTED, VERY MUCH LIKED, SHE

1394
00:40:46,249 --> 00:40:48,217
WAS VERY POPULAR AND SO FORTH,

1395
00:40:48,217 --> 00:40:49,752
HOW SHE WAS UNDERVALUED RELATIVE

1396
00:40:49,752 --> 00:40:54,290
TO HER STATUS OF HER SCIENCE AND

1397
00:40:54,290 --> 00:40:56,893
HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND

1398
00:40:56,893 --> 00:40:57,226
CONTRIBUTIONS.

1399
00:40:57,226 --> 00:41:01,163
SHE WAS THE FIRST WOMAN ON THE

1400
00:41:01,163 --> 00:41:02,832
FACULTY OFF M.I.T. TO BE ELECTED

1401
00:41:02,832 --> 00:41:04,367
TO THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF

1402
00:41:04,367 --> 00:41:05,568
SCIENCES FOR EXAMPLE BUT SHE WAS

1403
00:41:05,568 --> 00:41:06,369
NOT TREATED --

1404
00:41:06,369 --> 00:41:08,337
>> MARY LOU DIED THIS
YEAR, SHE

1405
00:41:08,337 --> 00:41:10,873
AND JOE GALL WHO ALSO DIED

1406
00:41:10,873 --> 00:41:13,175
RECENTLY TOGETHER DEVELOPED

1407
00:41:13,175 --> 00:41:13,776
IN SITU HYBRIDIZATION.

1408
00:41:13,776 --> 00:41:15,711
SO THAT WAS THE PAPER THAT NANCY

1409
00:41:15,711 --> 00:41:17,647
READ AS A STUDENT IN 1968, I

1410
00:41:17,647 --> 00:41:17,880
BELIEVE.

1411
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,983
>> SO WE GO OFF TO THIS
LITTLE

1412
00:41:20,983 --> 00:41:25,821
CAFE NEAR THE LAB IN KENDALL

1413
00:41:25,821 --> 00:41:27,189
SWEAR AND I HAVE MY LETTER TO

1414
00:41:27,189 --> 00:41:29,125
PRESIDENT VEST, I GIVE TO HER,

1415
00:41:29,125 --> 00:41:30,660
IT'S ABOUT THIS SIZE ON THE

1416
00:41:30,660 --> 00:41:32,828
TABLE, SHE'S READING THE LETTER,

1417
00:41:32,828 --> 00:41:34,397
I'M WATCHING HER READ THE LETTER

1418
00:41:34,397 --> 00:41:36,632
AND SHE PROBABLY THINKS OH, THAT

1419
00:41:36,632 --> 00:41:38,634
HOPKINS WOMAN, SHE WASN'T GOOD

1420
00:41:38,634 --> 00:41:39,635
ENOUGH, IF SHE WAS GOOD ENOUGH

1421
00:41:39,635 --> 00:41:40,803
SHE WOULDN'T HAVE TO COMPLAIN

1422
00:41:40,803 --> 00:41:41,604
ABOUT DISCRIMINATION, BUT

1423
00:41:41,604 --> 00:41:43,172
INSTEAD OF THAT SHE PUT THE

1424
00:41:43,172 --> 00:41:44,607
LETTER BACK ON THE TABLE AND SHE

1425
00:41:44,607 --> 00:41:45,708
SAYS, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING

1426
00:41:45,708 --> 00:41:47,610
YOU'VE SAID AND I'D LIKE TO SIEB

1427
00:41:47,610 --> 00:41:52,248
THE LESIGNTHE LETTER AND I THIND

1428
00:41:52,248 --> 00:41:53,649
GO TOGETHER TO SEE THE PRESIDENT

1429
00:41:53,649 --> 00:41:54,884
OF M.I.T. TO TELL HIM ABOUT THIS

1430
00:41:54,884 --> 00:41:55,851
PROBLEM AND THAT IS THE THING

1431
00:41:55,851 --> 00:41:56,886
THAT CHANGED THE WORLD FOR ME

1432
00:41:56,886 --> 00:41:59,288
AND CHANGED MY LIFE, LED TO KATE

1433
00:41:59,288 --> 00:42:00,690
ZERNIKE WRITING HER BOOK.

1434
00:42:00,690 --> 00:42:04,260
IT WAS THIS ALLIANCE WITH MARY

1435
00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:07,530
LOU -- SHE WAS SO RESPECTED,

1436
00:42:07,530 --> 00:42:10,833
NOBODY COULD DENY THIS WOMAN.

1437
00:42:10,833 --> 00:42:11,434
YOU COULDN'T.

1438
00:42:11,434 --> 00:42:12,668
>> IT WAS ALSO THE FEELING
OF

1439
00:42:12,668 --> 00:42:14,603
YOU WERE NO LONGER ALONE, AND I

1440
00:42:14,603 --> 00:42:16,038
THINK THE REASON THAT THIS

1441
00:42:16,038 --> 00:42:17,473
STORY -- I JUST REMEMBER WHEN

1442
00:42:17,473 --> 00:42:19,008
THIS STORY -- WHEN THE STORY

1443
00:42:19,008 --> 00:42:21,210
FINALLY APPEARED AND DID GO

1444
00:42:21,210 --> 00:42:23,679
VIRAL, THE REACTION FROM SO MANY

1445
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:24,914
WOMEN AND EMAIL FROM AROUND THE

1446
00:42:24,914 --> 00:42:25,948
COUNTRY AND THE WORLD WAS, THIS

1447
00:42:25,948 --> 00:42:27,350
IS MY STORY AND I THOUGHT I WAS

1448
00:42:27,350 --> 00:42:28,217
THE ONLY ONE.

1449
00:42:28,217 --> 00:42:29,418
WHICH ACTUALLY THAT HAD BEEN

1450
00:42:29,418 --> 00:42:30,519
YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU READ THE

1451
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:32,088
BOOK ABOUT ROSALYN FRANKLIN.

1452
00:42:32,088 --> 00:42:32,755
SO I THINK THAT WAS THE

1453
00:42:32,755 --> 00:42:34,490
IMPORTANCE OF THAT MOMENT WITH

1454
00:42:34,490 --> 00:42:36,859
MARY LOU, BUT THEN YOU HAVE THE

1455
00:42:36,859 --> 00:42:38,594
GREAT IDEA, OR THE -- YOU KNOW,

1456
00:42:38,594 --> 00:42:40,329
SOMEWHAT OF AN EPIPHANY TO SAY

1457
00:42:40,329 --> 00:42:41,330
TO MARY LOU, DO YOU THINK THERE

1458
00:42:41,330 --> 00:42:42,398
MIGHT BE OTHER WOMEN WHO FEEL

1459
00:42:42,398 --> 00:42:43,099
THIS WAY?

1460
00:42:43,099 --> 00:42:44,200
AND OF COURSE YOU'RE BOTH

1461
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,335
THINKING WELL, SURELY, THERE ARE

1462
00:42:46,335 --> 00:42:48,104
FIVE SCHOOLS AT M.I.T., SCIENCE

1463
00:42:48,104 --> 00:42:49,872
IS JUST ONE OF THEM, SURELY

1464
00:42:49,872 --> 00:42:51,807
THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY WOMEN AT

1465
00:42:51,807 --> 00:42:52,742
M.I.T., WE CAN'T POSSIBLY ASK

1466
00:42:52,742 --> 00:42:53,309
ALL OF THEM.

1467
00:42:53,309 --> 00:42:54,910
SO WE'RE GOING TO GO AND WE'LL

1468
00:42:54,910 --> 00:42:55,778
JUST START WITH THE SCHOOL OF

1469
00:42:55,778 --> 00:42:56,012
SCIENCE.

1470
00:42:56,012 --> 00:42:57,980
SO YOU GO BACK AND GET LISA

1471
00:42:57,980 --> 00:42:59,115
STEINER AND THE THREE OF YOU

1472
00:42:59,115 --> 00:43:00,549
BEGIN TO WRITE A LIST, THEY

1473
00:43:00,549 --> 00:43:02,718
DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WOMEN ARE IN

1474
00:43:02,718 --> 00:43:05,154
THE SCHOOL OF SCIENCE --

1475
00:43:05,154 --> 00:43:06,489
>> WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE

1476
00:43:06,489 --> 00:43:07,423
CATALOG AND WE'RE WRITING DOWN

1477
00:43:07,423 --> 00:43:09,158
THE NAMES OF THE WOMEN, AND

1478
00:43:09,158 --> 00:43:09,925
THERE'S SIX DEPARTMENTS OF

1479
00:43:09,925 --> 00:43:11,227
SCIENCE, WE GET TO THE END AND

1480
00:43:11,227 --> 00:43:14,630
THERE ARE 15 WOMEN AND

1481
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:15,264
197 TENURED MEN.

1482
00:43:15,264 --> 00:43:16,532
AND I SAY, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE.

1483
00:43:16,532 --> 00:43:18,367
>> THIS IS 1994.

1484
00:43:18,367 --> 00:43:19,869
>> THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.

1485
00:43:19,869 --> 00:43:21,837
I SAID, THEY MUST LIST THEM

1486
00:43:21,837 --> 00:43:22,905
SEPARATELY, MAYBE AT THE BACK OF

1487
00:43:22,905 --> 00:43:24,507
THE BOOK.

1488
00:43:24,507 --> 00:43:27,143
>> IN THE GIRLS' PART.

1489
00:43:27,143 --> 00:43:28,511
>> WE COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

1490
00:43:28,511 --> 00:43:32,481
BUT IT MADE IT VERY EASY TO POLL

1491
00:43:32,481 --> 00:43:32,915
THEM.

1492
00:43:32,915 --> 00:43:34,550
WHAT WE DID THEN WAS WENT

1493
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:35,451
THROUGH THE SCHOOL OF

1494
00:43:35,451 --> 00:43:36,619
ENGINEERING LOOKING FOR WOMEN

1495
00:43:36,619 --> 00:43:38,154
WHO HAD JOINT APPOINTMENTS TO

1496
00:43:38,154 --> 00:43:38,954
SCIENCE, WHICH SOMETIMES

1497
00:43:38,954 --> 00:43:39,922
HAPPENS, AND WE FOUND TWO MORE.

1498
00:43:39,922 --> 00:43:41,824
SO WE GOT OUR NUMBER UP TO 17

1499
00:43:41,824 --> 00:43:44,293
WOMEN.

1500
00:43:44,293 --> 00:43:45,895
AND SO INCLUDING THREE OF US,

1501
00:43:45,895 --> 00:43:47,096
THERE WERE 14 PEOPLE TO GO AND

1502
00:43:47,096 --> 00:43:48,431
ASK, HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY

1503
00:43:48,431 --> 00:43:50,599
EXPERIENCES LIKE THIS?

1504
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:52,802
>> AND SO AGAIN, AS YOU'RE

1505
00:43:52,802 --> 00:43:54,370
GOING -- YOU GO AND YOU'RE STILL

1506
00:43:54,370 --> 00:43:55,438
NERVOUS, SEEING THESE OTHER

1507
00:43:55,438 --> 00:43:56,906
WOMEN, IN PARTICULAR -- YOU TALK

1508
00:43:56,906 --> 00:43:58,407
ABOUT JOANNE AND SYLVIA, AND

1509
00:43:58,407 --> 00:43:59,642
WERE YOU A LITTLE NERVOUS THAT,

1510
00:43:59,642 --> 00:44:02,144
AGAIN, THEY WERE GOING TO THINK

1511
00:44:02,144 --> 00:44:03,446
IT WAS EXCEPTIONAL TO YOU, YOU

1512
00:44:03,446 --> 00:44:05,848
WERE LOSERS, RIGHT.

1513
00:44:05,848 --> 00:44:07,683
AND INSTEAD, WHAT HAPPENS?

1514
00:44:07,683 --> 00:44:08,884
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF
YOU

1515
00:44:08,884 --> 00:44:09,919
KNOW THESE WOMEN.

1516
00:44:09,919 --> 00:44:12,354
SO WE DIVIDED THE LIST IN HALF

1517
00:44:12,354 --> 00:44:14,223
AND MARY LOU AND LISA WENT OFF

1518
00:44:14,223 --> 00:44:16,859
TO ASK HALF OF THEM AND I WENT

1519
00:44:16,859 --> 00:44:19,361
OFF -- AND WHO DO I GO TO MEET,

1520
00:44:19,361 --> 00:44:21,497
JOANNE STUBBE, SHE'S SITTING ON

1521
00:44:21,497 --> 00:44:24,667
THE FLOOR OF HER OFFICE WITH BIG

1522
00:44:24,667 --> 00:44:25,634
MOLECULES ON A SUNDAY, I THINK

1523
00:44:25,634 --> 00:44:27,203
IT WAS, I CAN'T REMEMBER,

1524
00:44:27,203 --> 00:44:30,206
ANYWAY, SO I ASK SYLVIA, AND I

1525
00:44:30,206 --> 00:44:31,507
SAY HAVE YOU EVER HAD ANY

1526
00:44:31,507 --> 00:44:32,241
EXPERIENCE LIKE THIS?

1527
00:44:32,241 --> 00:44:34,076
AND I DESCRIBED THE THING, DO

1528
00:44:34,076 --> 00:44:37,279
YOU HAVE ANYTHING I COULD SIGN?

1529
00:44:37,279 --> 00:44:38,948
THAT WAS THE REACTION PRETTY

1530
00:44:38,948 --> 00:44:39,782
MUCH FROM ALL THESE WOMEN.

1531
00:44:39,782 --> 00:44:41,217
I MEAN, I JUST WAS IN SHOCK.

1532
00:44:41,217 --> 00:44:43,285
I MEAN, OF COURSE THEY'D SEEN

1533
00:44:43,285 --> 00:44:44,220
IT, THEY'D EXPERIENCED IT, THEY

1534
00:44:44,220 --> 00:44:44,987
KNEW ABOUT IT.

1535
00:44:44,987 --> 00:44:45,888
BUT IT WAS SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T

1536
00:44:45,888 --> 00:44:49,592
TALK ABOUT.

1537
00:44:49,592 --> 00:44:51,827
AND SO IN ABOUT A DAY, WE WERE A

1538
00:44:51,827 --> 00:44:52,661
GROUP -- AS SOON AS WE COULD

1539
00:44:52,661 --> 00:44:55,531
FIND EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY SIGNED

1540
00:44:55,531 --> 00:44:57,967
EXCEPT ONE OF THE 17 WOMEN DID

1541
00:44:57,967 --> 00:44:58,501
NOT SIGN.

1542
00:44:58,501 --> 00:44:59,735
SHE SAID SHE PERSONALLY HAD

1543
00:44:59,735 --> 00:45:01,871
NEVER EXPERIENCED IT.

1544
00:45:01,871 --> 00:45:03,005
>> OF COURSE SHE TURNED
OUT TO

1545
00:45:03,005 --> 00:45:04,306
BE THE MOST UNDERPAID.

1546
00:45:04,306 --> 00:45:05,941
>> SHE DID.

1547
00:45:05,941 --> 00:45:09,011
>> SO PRETTY QUICKLY
WITHIN A

1548
00:45:09,011 --> 00:45:10,513
WEEK OR SO, THESE WOMEN SIGN ON

1549
00:45:10,513 --> 00:45:11,680
AND YOU DRAFT A LETTER TO THE

1550
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:12,982
DEAN OF SCIENCE.

1551
00:45:12,982 --> 00:45:13,916
YOU DECIDE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO

1552
00:45:13,916 --> 00:45:15,017
GO TO THE PRESIDENT, YOU'LL

1553
00:45:15,017 --> 00:45:16,752
START WITH THE DEAN.

1554
00:45:16,752 --> 00:45:17,753
WON'T GO ABOVE HIS HEAD.

1555
00:45:17,753 --> 00:45:19,054
AND YOU WRITE THIS LETTER AND

1556
00:45:19,054 --> 00:45:21,056
YOU'RE VERY NERVOUS, AND I

1557
00:45:21,056 --> 00:45:22,725
REMEMBER COMING ACROSS AN EMAIL

1558
00:45:22,725 --> 00:45:27,296
THAT NANCY WRITES TO MARCIA

1559
00:45:27,296 --> 00:45:28,364
MANAUGHT, SHE SAYS BASICALLY

1560
00:45:28,364 --> 00:45:29,632
DON'T WORRY, I'M SHREDDING ALL

1561
00:45:29,632 --> 00:45:31,167
OF THESE DOCUMENTS, YOU'RE NOT

1562
00:45:31,167 --> 00:45:32,101
GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE.

1563
00:45:32,101 --> 00:45:33,102
SO YOU WRITE THIS LETTER TO THE

1564
00:45:33,102 --> 00:45:34,837
DEAN, AND YOU GO MEET -- SIX OF

1565
00:45:34,837 --> 00:45:36,038
YOU GO MEET WITH HIM AND AS

1566
00:45:36,038 --> 00:45:39,975
YOU'RE ON YOUR WAY THERE, YOU

1567
00:45:39,975 --> 00:45:42,611
THINK SURELY HE'S TOLD THE

1568
00:45:42,611 --> 00:45:43,379
PRESIDENT, CALLED THE LAWYERS

1569
00:45:43,379 --> 00:45:44,246
FOR THE SCHOOL, WE'RE IN

1570
00:45:44,246 --> 00:45:45,214
TROUBLE, AND INSTEAD YOU GET

1571
00:45:45,214 --> 00:45:46,448
THERE AND HE HASN'T EVEN READ

1572
00:45:46,448 --> 00:45:47,483
YOUR LETTER, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHY

1573
00:45:47,483 --> 00:45:49,218
YOU'RE THERE, HE'S LIKE DIDN'T

1574
00:45:49,218 --> 00:45:51,053
SHE HAVE SOME ISSUE WITH SPACE

1575
00:45:51,053 --> 00:45:52,254
AND DISCRIMINATION MAYBE.

1576
00:45:52,254 --> 00:45:54,190
WHAT HAPPENS WITH BOB IN THAT

1577
00:45:54,190 --> 00:45:55,291
ROOM?

1578
00:45:55,291 --> 00:46:01,530
>> UM, WELL, YOU KNOW, HE
COMES

1579
00:46:01,530 --> 00:46:03,866
IN AND SEES THESE PEOPLE SITTING

1580
00:46:03,866 --> 00:46:05,201
THERE, I THINK KATE KNOWS BETTER

1581
00:46:05,201 --> 00:46:09,605
THAN I, HE'S TALK TODAY KATE,

1582
00:46:09,605 --> 00:46:16,245
HE'S STILL A FRIND FR FRIEND O ,

1583
00:46:16,245 --> 00:46:17,580
EMAIL ON A REGULAR BASIS, I

1584
00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:19,815
TALKED TO HIM THIS WEEK.

1585
00:46:19,815 --> 00:46:22,284
SO HE HADN'T READ IT, SEEING

1586
00:46:22,284 --> 00:46:23,919
THESE PEOPLE THERE, HE CALLED IT

1587
00:46:23,919 --> 00:46:24,887
LIKE A RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE

1588
00:46:24,887 --> 00:46:25,554
SOMEHOW FOR HIM.

1589
00:46:25,554 --> 00:46:27,256
HE SUDDENLY GOT IT.

1590
00:46:27,256 --> 00:46:28,190
HE JUST -- HE SAID -- AND OF

1591
00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:29,925
COURSE, IT HAS TO BE, HE SAID --

1592
00:46:29,925 --> 00:46:31,126
I'M GOING TO SAY THIS AGAIN,

1593
00:46:31,126 --> 00:46:32,394
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN AND AGAIN, BUT

1594
00:46:32,394 --> 00:46:34,363
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THESE 16

1595
00:46:34,363 --> 00:46:36,131
WOMEN, FOUR OF THEM HAVE WON THE

1596
00:46:36,131 --> 00:46:37,433
U.S. NATIONAL MEDAL OF SCIENCE.

1597
00:46:37,433 --> 00:46:39,435
11 OF THEM ARE MEMBERS OF THE

1598
00:46:39,435 --> 00:46:40,069
NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCE.

1599
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:41,036
>> NOT LOSERS.

1600
00:46:41,036 --> 00:46:42,771
>> THESE WERE NOT LOSERS.

1601
00:46:42,771 --> 00:46:46,575
THESE WERE TOP SCIENTIST IS IN E

1602
00:46:46,575 --> 00:46:47,309
COUNTRY IN THEIR FIELDS.

1603
00:46:47,309 --> 00:46:49,144
THE FACT THAT THEY FELT THIS WAY

1604
00:46:49,144 --> 00:46:52,348
WAS THE POWER OF THIS GROUP.

1605
00:46:52,348 --> 00:46:54,049
>> WHAT I FIND SO
INTERESTING

1606
00:46:54,049 --> 00:46:55,784
ABOUT BOB'S EXPERIENCE IS

1607
00:46:55,784 --> 00:46:56,819
THAT -- AND THIS AGAIN GOES TO

1608
00:46:56,819 --> 00:46:58,454
THE TITLE OF THE BOOK, THE

1609
00:46:58,454 --> 00:46:59,154
EXCEPTIONS, BECAUSE EVERYBODY

1610
00:46:59,154 --> 00:47:00,623
THINKS THEY'RE THE ONLY ONE,

1611
00:47:00,623 --> 00:47:03,592
INCLUDING YOU.

1612
00:47:03,592 --> 00:47:05,561
AND BOB THINKS HE'S GOT THIS

1613
00:47:05,561 --> 00:47:07,062
APPROACH OF HAD ANY OF THESE SIX

1614
00:47:07,062 --> 00:47:09,365
WOMEN COME TO ME INDIVIDUALLY, I

1615
00:47:09,365 --> 00:47:10,899
WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO EXPLAIN

1616
00:47:10,899 --> 00:47:12,701
AWAY HER STORY.

1617
00:47:12,701 --> 00:47:13,902
THIS ONE HAD A GRANT THAT SHE

1618
00:47:13,902 --> 00:47:15,638
DIDN'T GET, THIS ONE -- SHE'S ON

1619
00:47:15,638 --> 00:47:16,739
THAT PROJECT WITH THAT GUY WHO'S

1620
00:47:16,739 --> 00:47:18,741
KIND OF DIFFICULT BUT, YOU KNOW,

1621
00:47:18,741 --> 00:47:21,043
WE PUT UP WITH HIM BECAUSE HE'S

1622
00:47:21,043 --> 00:47:22,044
A GENIUS.

1623
00:47:22,044 --> 00:47:23,746
BUT HEARING THEM ONE AFTER

1624
00:47:23,746 --> 00:47:26,448
ANOTHER, AGAIN, TO ME AS A

1625
00:47:26,448 --> 00:47:27,449
NON-SCIENTIST, THIS IS TO ME --

1626
00:47:27,449 --> 00:47:29,585
IT STRIKES ME AS A VERY

1627
00:47:29,585 --> 00:47:30,919
SCIENTIFIC INSTINCT, IT'S WHAT

1628
00:47:30,919 --> 00:47:31,353
JOURNALISTS DO.

1629
00:47:31,353 --> 00:47:32,921
YOU SEE A PATTERN, YOU THINK, O

1630
00:47:32,921 --> 00:47:33,822
GOD, THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE

1631
00:47:33,822 --> 00:47:36,325
TALKING ABOUT.

1632
00:47:36,325 --> 00:47:38,127
HE ACTUALLY -- YES, HE DOES

1633
00:47:38,127 --> 00:47:39,928
DESCRIBE IT AS A RELIGIOUS

1634
00:47:39,928 --> 00:47:42,498
EPIPHANY BUT ALSO KIND OF A

1635
00:47:42,498 --> 00:47:43,299
EUREKA MOMENT.

1636
00:47:43,299 --> 00:47:44,600
HE WORKS AS A PHYSICIST,

1637
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:45,634
DESCRIBES THIS ONE MOMENT WHEN

1638
00:47:45,634 --> 00:47:47,369
HE HAD ONE OF HIS BIGGEST BREAK

1639
00:47:47,369 --> 00:47:48,704
THROUGHS AND HE WAS SO EXCITED

1640
00:47:48,704 --> 00:47:50,506
ABOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT THAT HE

1641
00:47:50,506 --> 00:47:51,473
WAS ON THE CONNECTICUT TURNPIKE

1642
00:47:51,473 --> 00:47:53,142
AND HE PULLED OFF, HE SUDDENLY

1643
00:47:53,142 --> 00:47:54,510
SAW THE PROBLEM IN HIS HEAD,

1644
00:47:54,510 --> 00:47:56,378
PULLED OFF AND GOT ON A PAYPHONE

1645
00:47:56,378 --> 00:47:58,981
TO TELL HIS COLLABORATOR,

1646
00:47:58,981 --> 00:47:59,948
EUREKA, I'VE GOT IT.

1647
00:47:59,948 --> 00:48:01,050
HE DESCRIBES THE MEETING WITH

1648
00:48:01,050 --> 00:48:01,784
THESE WOMEN LIKE THAT.

1649
00:48:01,784 --> 00:48:03,252
AND HE BECOMES YOUR BIGGEST

1650
00:48:03,252 --> 00:48:05,921
ALLY, BUT THE OTHER MEN ARE VERY

1651
00:48:05,921 --> 00:48:06,989
RELUCTANT, THEY THINK THAT YOU

1652
00:48:06,989 --> 00:48:12,127
WANT TO REPLACE ALL OF THEM

1653
00:48:12,127 --> 00:48:12,328
AND --

1654
00:48:12,328 --> 00:48:14,063
>> RIGHT, THE WOMEN HAVE
DECIDED

1655
00:48:14,063 --> 00:48:15,297
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A

1656
00:48:15,297 --> 00:48:16,265
COMMITTEE WHICH WILL COLLECT

1657
00:48:16,265 --> 00:48:18,400
DATA AND AGAIN, WE FEEL IF WE

1658
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:19,702
COLLECT ENOUGH DATA ACROSS THESE

1659
00:48:19,702 --> 00:48:22,404
DEPARTMENTS IT WILL BE SO

1660
00:48:22,404 --> 00:48:24,039
CONVINCING THAT M.I.T. WILL BE

1661
00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:25,874
ABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, AND

1662
00:48:25,874 --> 00:48:26,875
THEN THEY CAN FIX IT.

1663
00:48:26,875 --> 00:48:29,044
BOB SAYS OKAY, CAN YOU HAVE YOUR

1664
00:48:29,044 --> 00:48:30,112
COMMITTEE, AND WE WALK OUT OF

1665
00:48:30,112 --> 00:48:31,347
THERE, WE THINK WE'VE GOT THIS

1666
00:48:31,347 --> 00:48:32,314
PROBLEM SOLVED.

1667
00:48:32,314 --> 00:48:33,148
OH, BOY.

1668
00:48:33,148 --> 00:48:35,484
WELL, ABOUT A WEEK LATER, I LOOK

1669
00:48:35,484 --> 00:48:36,552
UP AND BOB IS STANDING IN THE

1670
00:48:36,552 --> 00:48:39,955
KODOOR OF MY OFFICE.

1671
00:48:39,955 --> 00:48:41,623
DEANS DON'T COME TO YOUR

1672
00:48:41,623 --> 00:48:49,231
ORVETION YOOFFICE.OH, PROBLEMS,,

1673
00:48:49,231 --> 00:48:49,998
DEPARTMENT HEADS DON'T THINK

1674
00:48:49,998 --> 00:48:50,966
WOMEN SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE

1675
00:48:50,966 --> 00:48:52,801
A COMMITTEE BECAUSE YOU'LL SEE

1676
00:48:52,801 --> 00:48:54,236
THE DATA AND THIS WILL BE VERY

1677
00:48:54,236 --> 00:48:55,471
DANGEROUS, AND SO ON.

1678
00:48:55,471 --> 00:48:57,673
ANYWAY, SO BOB HAS TO WORK -- HE

1679
00:48:57,673 --> 00:48:59,308
SAID WE'LL HAVE TO WORK -- WE

1680
00:48:59,308 --> 00:49:01,944
HAD TO HAVE A PRECOMMITTEE TO

1681
00:49:01,944 --> 00:49:02,478
CALM EVERYBODY DOWN.

1682
00:49:02,478 --> 00:49:04,546
>> A COMMITTEE TO FORM THE

1683
00:49:04,546 --> 00:49:05,314
COMMITTEE, LITERALLY.

1684
00:49:05,314 --> 00:49:07,116
>> A PRECOMMITTEE TO FORM
THE

1685
00:49:07,116 --> 00:49:08,117
COMMITTEE, WHATEVER, SO FINALLY

1686
00:49:08,117 --> 00:49:10,986
WE GET THE COMMITTEE, AND -- OH,

1687
00:49:10,986 --> 00:49:12,221
I SHOULD SAY THAT -- YES, THEN

1688
00:49:12,221 --> 00:49:14,256
WE GET THE COMMITTEE, AND WE DO

1689
00:49:14,256 --> 00:49:16,258
COLLECT THE DATA AND WE WRITE

1690
00:49:16,258 --> 00:49:17,459
OVER A PERIOD OF TWO YEARS

1691
00:49:17,459 --> 00:49:17,659
AND --

1692
00:49:17,659 --> 00:49:19,261
>> AND HE DOES A VERY
SMART

1693
00:49:19,261 --> 00:49:21,230
THING, WHICH IS THAT -- I THINK

1694
00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:23,198
THIS IS THE IDEA OF SOME OF THE

1695
00:49:23,198 --> 00:49:25,000
WOMEN IN YOUR GROUP, IS THAT HE

1696
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,502
MAKES SURE TO INCLUDE MEN BUT

1697
00:49:26,502 --> 00:49:27,936
ALSO MEN WHO ARE VERY POWERFUL.

1698
00:49:27,936 --> 00:49:29,772
SO YOU HAD DEPARTMENT HEADS AND

1699
00:49:29,772 --> 00:49:33,242
A NOBEL PRIZE WINNER AND --

1700
00:49:33,242 --> 00:49:34,443
BECAUSE THE FEELING WAS, IF THE

1701
00:49:34,443 --> 00:49:35,544
WOMEN HAD DONE THIS ON THEIR

1702
00:49:35,544 --> 00:49:37,513
OWN, NOBODY WOULD HAVE PAID

1703
00:49:37,513 --> 00:49:39,081
ATTENTION TO THEM.

1704
00:49:39,081 --> 00:49:40,416
>> WOULDN'T HAVE BELIEVED
THEM.

1705
00:49:40,416 --> 00:49:41,550
YOU HAVE TO PUT MEN ON THE

1706
00:49:41,550 --> 00:49:43,218
COMMITTEE SO PEOPLE BELIEVE THE

1707
00:49:43,218 --> 00:49:44,420
COMMITTEE'S REPORT.

1708
00:49:44,420 --> 00:49:49,591
I SAID WE WANT POWERFUL MEN, HE

1709
00:49:49,591 --> 00:49:50,592
SAID YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE

1710
00:49:50,592 --> 00:49:51,860
THIS STORY, BOB, WAIT UNTIL YOU

1711
00:49:51,860 --> 00:49:52,795
HEAR THIS ONE.

1712
00:49:52,795 --> 00:49:53,796
SO THEY REALIZED THAT THESE

1713
00:49:53,796 --> 00:49:55,063
THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING -- SO

1714
00:49:55,063 --> 00:49:56,365
THEN WE INTERVIEWED THE WOMEN,

1715
00:49:56,365 --> 00:49:57,433
THE WOMEN WOULD COME TO THE

1716
00:49:57,433 --> 00:49:58,434
COMMITTEE AND TELL THEIR

1717
00:49:58,434 --> 00:49:58,967
STORIES.

1718
00:49:58,967 --> 00:50:00,569
AND THESE MEN KNEW HOW THE

1719
00:50:00,569 --> 00:50:01,670
SYSTEM WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK

1720
00:50:01,670 --> 00:50:03,305
BECAUSE THEY WERE RUNNING IT.

1721
00:50:03,305 --> 00:50:05,274
AND THEY WERE AMAZED BY WHAT

1722
00:50:05,274 --> 00:50:06,742
THEY WERE HEARING FROM THESE

1723
00:50:06,742 --> 00:50:07,242
WOMEN.

1724
00:50:07,242 --> 00:50:08,343
WHEN THEY HEARD THE STORIES,

1725
00:50:08,343 --> 00:50:09,411
THEY KNEW IT WAS NOT THE WAY IT

1726
00:50:09,411 --> 00:50:10,646
WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.

1727
00:50:10,646 --> 00:50:13,282
THAT THESE WOMEN WERE NOT HAVING

1728
00:50:13,282 --> 00:50:14,049
A STANDARD LIFE.

1729
00:50:14,049 --> 00:50:14,950
IT WAS DIFFERENT FROM --

1730
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:16,485
>> AND NO WOMAN HAD BEEN A

1731
00:50:16,485 --> 00:50:17,486
DEPARTMENT HEAD OR HEAD OF A

1732
00:50:17,486 --> 00:50:18,520
CENTER AT THIS POINT, RIGHT?

1733
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,354
>> NO.

1734
00:50:19,354 --> 00:50:20,956
>> NO WOMAN HAD TAKEN
MATERNITY

1735
00:50:20,956 --> 00:50:22,191
LEAVE BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A

1736
00:50:22,191 --> 00:50:22,524
STIGMA.

1737
00:50:22,524 --> 00:50:23,559
>> RIGHT.

1738
00:50:23,559 --> 00:50:26,261
?O WOMAN TOOK -- ONLY MEN TOOK

1739
00:50:26,261 --> 00:50:27,262
MATERNITY LEAVE, I GUESS YOU

1740
00:50:27,262 --> 00:50:28,764
CALL IT PATERNITY LEAVE IN THAT

1741
00:50:28,764 --> 00:50:31,300
CASE, BUT ONLY -- WE HAD FAMILY

1742
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:32,601
LEAVE POLICY, BUT WOMEN WERE

1743
00:50:32,601 --> 00:50:33,602
AFRAID TO TAKE THEM BECAUSE OF

1744
00:50:33,602 --> 00:50:37,306
THE BELIEF THAT IF A WOMAN -- AA

1745
00:50:37,306 --> 00:50:38,540
WOMAN COULD NOT BE A GREAT

1746
00:50:38,540 --> 00:50:39,641
SCIENTIST AND ALSO HAVE

1747
00:50:39,641 --> 00:50:42,144
CHILDREN.

1748
00:50:42,144 --> 00:50:43,679
THEREFORE, IF YOU HAD CHILDREN,

1749
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:46,381
HOW COULD SHE POSSIBLY GET

1750
00:50:46,381 --> 00:50:47,783
TENURED AT M.I.T.?

1751
00:50:47,783 --> 00:50:50,419
SO THEY HAD KEPT IT A SECRET

1752
00:50:50,419 --> 00:50:51,186
FROM THE COMMITTEE THAT WAS

1753
00:50:51,186 --> 00:50:52,454
VOTING ON THE TENURE CASE THAT A

1754
00:50:52,454 --> 00:50:54,423
WOMAN HAD HAD CHILDREN, HELD IT

1755
00:50:54,423 --> 00:50:56,058
SECRET FROM THEM UNTIL AFTER THE

1756
00:50:56,058 --> 00:51:01,096
VOTE WAS TAKEN.

1757
00:51:01,096 --> 00:51:03,131
SO THAT'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW

1758
00:51:03,131 --> 00:51:05,667
HARD IT IS IN A MERITOCRACY TO

1759
00:51:05,667 --> 00:51:09,905
REALLY MAKE FAIR JUDGMENTS.

1760
00:51:09,905 --> 00:51:12,140
>> SO THE DEAN BEGINS --
YOU

1761
00:51:12,140 --> 00:51:13,809
HAVE -- YOU IDENTIFY PROBLEMS,

1762
00:51:13,809 --> 00:51:16,011
THE DEAN BEGINS TO FIX THEM.

1763
00:51:16,011 --> 00:51:17,679
ONE THING -- WHEN I DID THIS

1764
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:21,950
STORY, I WAS A YOUNG REPORTER AT

1765
00:51:21,950 --> 00:51:23,252
THE BOSTON GLOBE, AS WE SAY,

1766
00:51:23,252 --> 00:51:24,620
IT'S GREAT TO BE YOUNG BECAUSE

1767
00:51:24,620 --> 00:51:25,521
YOU'RE IGNORANT.

1768
00:51:25,521 --> 00:51:28,423
WHEN I CAME BACK TO THIS AS THE

1769
00:51:28,423 --> 00:51:30,292
IDEA FOR THE BOOK, ONLY THEN DID

1770
00:51:30,292 --> 00:51:32,160
I REALIZE THAT IT HAD TAKEN -- I

1771
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,795
GUESS I KNEW AT THE TIME BUT I'D

1772
00:51:33,795 --> 00:51:36,131
FORGOTTEN THAT IT HAD TAKEN FIVE

1773
00:51:36,131 --> 00:51:37,799
YEARS FROM THE POINT WHEN THE

1774
00:51:37,799 --> 00:51:40,302
WOMEN GET TOGETHER TO WHEN THE

1775
00:51:40,302 --> 00:51:43,438
COMMITCOMMITTEE REPORT ACTUALLYS

1776
00:51:43,438 --> 00:51:43,639
OUT.

1777
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:44,973
PART OF THE INITIAL RELUCTANCE

1778
00:51:44,973 --> 00:51:46,308
WAS FOR THE MEN TO ALLOW YOU TO

1779
00:51:46,308 --> 00:51:47,509
HAVE YOUR COMMITTEE, AND THEN

1780
00:51:47,509 --> 00:51:49,211
IT'S HARD TO GET THE DATA

1781
00:51:49,211 --> 00:51:49,478
BECAUSE --

1782
00:51:49,478 --> 00:51:52,548
>> YEAH, THE COMMITTEE MET
FOR

1783
00:51:52,548 --> 00:51:54,483
TWO YEARS OR MORE, COLLECTING

1784
00:51:54,483 --> 00:51:55,083
DATA.

1785
00:51:55,083 --> 00:51:56,818
GET FAIRLY FREQUENTLY.

1786
00:51:56,818 --> 00:51:57,819
EVERYBODY CAME.

1787
00:51:57,819 --> 00:51:59,354
IT WAS HARD TO GET DATA, WE HAD

1788
00:51:59,354 --> 00:52:00,622
TO FIGHT TO GET DATA.

1789
00:52:00,622 --> 00:52:03,458
ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE

1790
00:52:03,458 --> 00:52:04,426
COMMITTEE, BOB SILVER, HE WENT

1791
00:52:04,426 --> 00:52:06,094
BACK TO THE DEAN, GIVE THOSE

1792
00:52:06,094 --> 00:52:07,362
WOMEN SOME DATA, HE POUNDED ON

1793
00:52:07,362 --> 00:52:07,763
THE TABLE.

1794
00:52:07,763 --> 00:52:08,997
THEY WERE AFRAID THAT -- I THINK

1795
00:52:08,997 --> 00:52:10,365
THEY WERE AFRAID OF BEING SUED,

1796
00:52:10,365 --> 00:52:11,366
LET'S BE HONEST.

1797
00:52:11,366 --> 00:52:12,367
AND I DON'T BLAME THEM.

1798
00:52:12,367 --> 00:52:14,736
YOU KNOW, THEY WERE PROTECTING

1799
00:52:14,736 --> 00:52:14,937
M.I.T.

1800
00:52:14,937 --> 00:52:19,007
>> BUT IT'S SUCH A LESSON
IN

1801
00:52:19,007 --> 00:52:20,542
HOW -- AS YOU SAY HOW LITTLE

1802
00:52:20,542 --> 00:52:21,343
INFORMATION, THE WOMEN JUST

1803
00:52:21,343 --> 00:52:22,144
DIDN'T HAVE THE INFORMATION,

1804
00:52:22,144 --> 00:52:23,111
THEY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THINGS.

1805
00:52:23,111 --> 00:52:24,012
SO FOR INSTANCE IN THAT MEETING

1806
00:52:24,012 --> 00:52:25,647
WITH THE DEAN, YOU KNOW, SYLVIA

1807
00:52:25,647 --> 00:52:27,683
IS TALKING ABOUT HOW SHE -- ALL

1808
00:52:27,683 --> 00:52:29,217
HER LIFE IS SCIENCE, SHE HAS NO

1809
00:52:29,217 --> 00:52:30,919
PERSONAL LIFE, AND SHE'D BEEN

1810
00:52:30,919 --> 00:52:32,321
TRYING TO BUY A CONDO AND SHE

1811
00:52:32,321 --> 00:52:33,956
CAN'T, SHE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD IT,

1812
00:52:33,956 --> 00:52:36,058
AND BOB ALMOST LUNGS ACROSS THE

1813
00:52:36,058 --> 00:52:37,159
TABLE AND SAID, WHY DIDN'T YOU

1814
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:38,627
COME SEE ME ABOUT THAT?

1815
00:52:38,627 --> 00:52:39,628
BECAUSE OF COURSE ALL THE MEN

1816
00:52:39,628 --> 00:52:41,363
KNOW THAT THEY CAN GET A LOAN

1817
00:52:41,363 --> 00:52:42,831
FROM M.I.T. TO BUY REAL ESTATE

1818
00:52:42,831 --> 00:52:46,802
AND THE WOMEN JUST HAD NO CLUE.

1819
00:52:46,802 --> 00:52:47,769
THERE'S THIS THING CALLED THE

1820
00:52:47,769 --> 00:52:49,304
BROWN BOOK THAT HAD ALL THE DATA

1821
00:52:49,304 --> 00:52:50,606
OF WHO WAS GETTING WHAT GRANTS.

1822
00:52:50,606 --> 00:52:51,773
THE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY'D NEVER

1823
00:52:51,773 --> 00:52:52,608
BEEN IN ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T

1824
00:52:52,608 --> 00:52:54,309
KNOW SUCH A THING EXISTED, THEY

1825
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:55,611
HAD NO IDEA THEY KNEW HOW TO GET

1826
00:52:55,611 --> 00:52:56,011
THE INFORMATION.

1827
00:52:56,011 --> 00:52:59,815
SO IT REALLY WATION A MATTER OF

1828
00:52:59,815 --> 00:53:00,882
LETTING YOU IN ON THE SECRET.

1829
00:53:00,882 --> 00:53:02,417
PENNY TALKED ABOUT HAVING A

1830
00:53:02,417 --> 00:53:04,152
PLAYBOOK, LIKE IT WAS REALLY

1831
00:53:04,152 --> 00:53:05,887
GIVING THE WOMEN THE PLAYBOOK,

1832
00:53:05,887 --> 00:53:06,088
RIGHT?

1833
00:53:06,088 --> 00:53:07,289
>> RIGHT, THERE WERE ALL
THESE

1834
00:53:07,289 --> 00:53:08,790
PERKS GIVEN OUT BY

1835
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:09,658
ADMINISTRATORS, AND WOMEN JUST

1836
00:53:09,658 --> 00:53:11,093
DIDN'T GET THEM.

1837
00:53:11,093 --> 00:53:12,628
AND SO IT WASN'T DELIBERATE.

1838
00:53:12,628 --> 00:53:15,230
NONE OF IT'S DELIBERATE.

1839
00:53:15,230 --> 00:53:16,431
IT JUST HAPPENS BECAUSE OF THE

1840
00:53:16,431 --> 00:53:20,335
BIAS AND THE FACT THAT THE WOMEN

1841
00:53:20,335 --> 00:53:21,103
WEREN'T -- WERE CLUELESS ABOUT

1842
00:53:21,103 --> 00:53:22,404
HOW THE SYSTEM WAS WORKING.

1843
00:53:22,404 --> 00:53:23,271
>> AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
THAT

1844
00:53:23,271 --> 00:53:23,438
WAY.

1845
00:53:23,438 --> 00:53:24,706
>> IT ALWAYS BEEN THAT
WAY.

1846
00:53:24,706 --> 00:53:26,541
I THINK WE HAD ONE -- THEN WE

1847
00:53:26,541 --> 00:53:27,242
INTERVIEWED THE DEPARTMENT

1848
00:53:27,242 --> 00:53:28,176
CHAIRS AND THEY WOULD COME IN

1849
00:53:28,176 --> 00:53:29,344
AND SAID WELL, AT THE END OF THE

1850
00:53:29,344 --> 00:53:31,513
YEAR, IF I HAD EXTRA MONEY IN MY

1851
00:53:31,513 --> 00:53:32,948
BUDGET FOR SALARIES, I WOULD

1852
00:53:32,948 --> 00:53:35,083
GIVE TO A YOUNG MAN WHO JUST HAD

1853
00:53:35,083 --> 00:53:37,586
A BABY, WHOSE FAMILY HAD A BABY.

1854
00:53:37,586 --> 00:53:39,221
WELL, OKAY, I GET THAT.

1855
00:53:39,221 --> 00:53:40,656
THAT'S A VERY NICE IMPULSE.

1856
00:53:40,656 --> 00:53:42,924
I WOULD DO THAT TOO, BUT CAN YOU

1857
00:53:42,924 --> 00:53:44,126
SEE WHY THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT

1858
00:53:44,126 --> 00:53:46,762
WELL FOR WOMEN, BECAUSE THEY

1859
00:53:46,762 --> 00:53:47,929
WERE HIDING THE FACT THEY HAD

1860
00:53:47,929 --> 00:53:48,697
BABIES.

1861
00:53:48,697 --> 00:53:50,666
ANYWAY, SO YOU COULD SEE THAT IT

1862
00:53:50,666 --> 00:53:52,601
DIDN'T COME ABOUT BECAUSE PEOPLE

1863
00:53:52,601 --> 00:53:53,835
SAID LET'S TREAT THESE PEOPLE

1864
00:53:53,835 --> 00:53:54,569
BADLY.

1865
00:53:54,569 --> 00:53:56,271
IT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE THAT WAS

1866
00:53:56,271 --> 00:54:00,208
THE WAY THE WORLD WAS.

1867
00:54:00,208 --> 00:54:01,910
>> SO YOU WRITE THIS
REPORT AND

1868
00:54:01,910 --> 00:54:04,413
MANY THINGS HAVE TO HAPPEN.

1869
00:54:04,413 --> 00:54:06,348
YOU WRITE YOUR FIRST REPORT IN

1870
00:54:06,348 --> 00:54:06,548
1996.

1871
00:54:06,548 --> 00:54:08,984
THE REPORT IS NOT MADE PUBLIC

1872
00:54:08,984 --> 00:54:09,384
UNTIL 1999.

1873
00:54:09,384 --> 00:54:11,219
>> IT WAS NEVER PUBLISHED,
IT

1874
00:54:11,219 --> 00:54:12,754
WAS 150 PAGES LONG, DETAILED

1875
00:54:12,754 --> 00:54:14,456
THING OF ALL THE THINGS THAT

1876
00:54:14,456 --> 00:54:17,759
HAPPENED TO THE WOMEN IN THE

1877
00:54:17,759 --> 00:54:18,627
STORY, THE DATA, BLAH, BLAH,

1878
00:54:18,627 --> 00:54:19,661
BLAH.

1879
00:54:19,661 --> 00:54:21,930
>> SO YOU PRESENT THIS TO
THE

1880
00:54:21,930 --> 00:54:22,964
FACULTY POLICY GROUP, WHICH IS

1881
00:54:22,964 --> 00:54:24,199
SORT OF THE EQUIVALENT OF A

1882
00:54:24,199 --> 00:54:25,701
FACULTY SENATE AT M.I.T., AND

1883
00:54:25,701 --> 00:54:26,835
THE FIRST TIME YOU PRESENT IT,

1884
00:54:26,835 --> 00:54:28,737
THERE'S A MALE CHAIR OF THE

1885
00:54:28,737 --> 00:54:30,105
FACULTY AND HE SAYS VERY, VERY

1886
00:54:30,105 --> 00:54:31,707
NICE, FINE, BUT THERE'S SOMEONE

1887
00:54:31,707 --> 00:54:33,875
WHO COMES IN THE NEXT YEAR TO

1888
00:54:33,875 --> 00:54:35,210
REPLACE HIM WHO HAPPENS TO BE A

1889
00:54:35,210 --> 00:54:38,213
M WOMAN WHO HAS SPENT HER CAREER

1890
00:54:38,213 --> 00:54:38,980
STUDYING WOMEN'S WORK -- WOMEN

1891
00:54:38,980 --> 00:54:40,982
IN THE WORKPLACE AND WORK-LIFE

1892
00:54:40,982 --> 00:54:43,085
BALANCE AND AND SHE RECOGNIZES

1893
00:54:43,085 --> 00:54:44,219
THAT WHAT THE WOMEN IN THE

1894
00:54:44,219 --> 00:54:45,053
SCHOOL OF SCIENCE HAVE DONE

1895
00:54:45,053 --> 00:54:47,789
COULD BE A MODEL FOR

1896
00:54:47,789 --> 00:54:48,724
ILLUMINATING DISCRIMINATION,

1897
00:54:48,724 --> 00:54:51,827
PERHAPS IN THE OTHER SCHOOLS AT

1898
00:54:51,827 --> 00:54:52,661
M.I.T., SO SHE HAS THIS IDEA

1899
00:54:52,661 --> 00:54:54,129
THAT YOU'RE GOING TO WRITE A

1900
00:54:54,129 --> 00:54:55,130
SORT OF SANITIZED VERSION OF

1901
00:54:55,130 --> 00:54:56,398
THAT REPORT AND YOU'RE GOING TO

1902
00:54:56,398 --> 00:55:01,336
DISTRIBUTE TO THE FACULTY, AND

1903
00:55:01,336 --> 00:55:02,771
OTHER SCHOOLS CAN LEARN FROM

1904
00:55:02,771 --> 00:55:02,971
THIS.

1905
00:55:02,971 --> 00:55:04,906
THEN YOU ARE SPEAKING TO A GROUP

1906
00:55:04,906 --> 00:55:06,241
OF SCIENTIST JOURNALIST FELLOWS,

1907
00:55:06,241 --> 00:55:08,343
AND ONE OF THEM ASKS YOU WHAT'S

1908
00:55:08,343 --> 00:55:09,077
THE -- TELL ME ABOUT WHAT IT

1909
00:55:09,077 --> 00:55:10,412
LIKE TO BE A WOMAN IN SCIENCE

1910
00:55:10,412 --> 00:55:12,481
AND YOU SAY OH VERY INTERESTING

1911
00:55:12,481 --> 00:55:13,448
YOU SHOULD ASK BECAUSE WE'VE

1912
00:55:13,448 --> 00:55:14,649
JUST GOT THIS LETTER, THEN THE

1913
00:55:14,649 --> 00:55:16,384
HEAD OF THAT PROGRAM SAYS OH, DO

1914
00:55:16,384 --> 00:55:17,686
YOU MIND IF I CALL SOME

1915
00:55:17,686 --> 00:55:18,587
REPORTERS?

1916
00:55:18,587 --> 00:55:19,654
YOUR FIRST INSTINCT WAS NO,

1917
00:55:19,654 --> 00:55:22,290
WHICH IS A GOOD INSTINCT, YOUR

1918
00:55:22,290 --> 00:55:23,391
SECOND INSTINCT WAS, WELL,

1919
00:55:23,391 --> 00:55:24,659
ACTUALLY, WOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS

1920
00:55:24,659 --> 00:55:26,094
DONE SOMETHING REALLY REMARKABLE

1921
00:55:26,094 --> 00:55:27,195
HERE IN ACKNOWLEDGING THIS

1922
00:55:27,195 --> 00:55:28,930
PROBLEM, SO THIS IS THE CLASSIC

1923
00:55:28,930 --> 00:55:31,199
M.I.T. STORY, CLASSIC STORY OF

1924
00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:33,201
SCIENCE IN THE PUBLIC GOOD.

1925
00:55:33,201 --> 00:55:34,469
YEAH, WE'LL SHARE THIS STORY.

1926
00:55:34,469 --> 00:55:35,771
BUT YOU DID NOT EXPECT THIS

1927
00:55:35,771 --> 00:55:39,808
STORY TO RESONATE OUTSIDE M.I.T.

1928
00:55:39,808 --> 00:55:40,008
RIGHT?

1929
00:55:40,008 --> 00:55:41,777
>> NO, I THINK THIS WOMAN
WHO

1930
00:55:41,777 --> 00:55:44,713
BECAME THE CHAIR OF THE FACULTY,

1931
00:55:44,713 --> 00:55:49,384
LOTTI EBAYLAND, EXTRAORDINARY,

1932
00:55:49,384 --> 00:55:51,153
STILL GOING STRONG AT 94, HER

1933
00:55:51,153 --> 00:55:53,755
LIFE WOAS WORK IS TO HELP SOLVE

1934
00:55:53,755 --> 00:55:54,389
FAMILY WORK PROBLEMS.

1935
00:55:54,389 --> 00:55:56,224
SHE KNEW ONE OF THE WOMEN IN MY

1936
00:55:56,224 --> 00:55:57,325
GROUP SO SHE KNEW ABOUT THE WORK

1937
00:55:57,325 --> 00:55:57,993
WE'D DONE.

1938
00:55:57,993 --> 00:56:00,729
AND SHE ASKED TO WRITE -- ASKED

1939
00:56:00,729 --> 00:56:02,798
US TO WRITE A VERY SHORT VERSION

1940
00:56:02,798 --> 00:56:04,900
OF THIS 150-PAGE REPORT THAT

1941
00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:07,569
COULD BE SHARED WITH THE M.I.T.

1942
00:56:07,569 --> 00:56:08,103
FACULTY.

1943
00:56:08,103 --> 00:56:09,771
AND THE CHAIR OF THE FACULTY

1944
00:56:09,771 --> 00:56:11,373
SITS ON THE HIGHEST LEVEL

1945
00:56:11,373 --> 00:56:12,707
COMMITTEE, SO SHE WAS MEETING

1946
00:56:12,707 --> 00:56:16,311
WEEKLY WITH THE PRESIDENT AND

1947
00:56:16,311 --> 00:56:17,813
OTHER DEANS OF M.I.T. SO SHE HAD

1948
00:56:17,813 --> 00:56:20,115
ACCESS TO THE PRESIDENT AND I

1949
00:56:20,115 --> 00:56:23,585
SAID, WELL -- I WROTE THIS

1950
00:56:23,585 --> 00:56:24,686
THING, THEN I SAID PLEASE BE

1951
00:56:24,686 --> 00:56:25,887
SURE TO MAKE SURE THE PRESIDENT

1952
00:56:25,887 --> 00:56:27,389
APPROVES IT, BECAUSE WE DON'T

1953
00:56:27,389 --> 00:56:28,790
WANT -- WE WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW

1954
00:56:28,790 --> 00:56:30,458
THAT WE DEPARTMENT WORK AGAINST

1955
00:56:30,458 --> 00:56:30,892
M.I.T.

1956
00:56:30,892 --> 00:56:32,861
WE WERE WORKING WITH M.I.T.

1957
00:56:32,861 --> 00:56:34,296
OUR WHOLE GOAL WAS TO HELP THEM

1958
00:56:34,296 --> 00:56:35,263
UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM SO THEY

1959
00:56:35,263 --> 00:56:37,199
COULD FIX IT.

1960
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:38,533
THAT WAS SO CRITICAL TO US THAT

1961
00:56:38,533 --> 00:56:39,734
THAT BE THE WAY IT WAS PRESENTED

1962
00:56:39,734 --> 00:56:41,469
TO THE WORLD, NOT AS A CONFLICT,

1963
00:56:41,469 --> 00:56:44,506
BUT AS A COLLABORATION.

1964
00:56:44,506 --> 00:56:46,908
ANYWAY, LOTTIE, WHO IS AN

1965
00:56:46,908 --> 00:56:47,676
EXTRAORDINARY PERSON, SHE TALKED

1966
00:56:47,676 --> 00:56:50,278
TO THE PRESIDENT OF M.I.T. AND

1967
00:56:50,278 --> 00:56:51,213
SAID THAT THIS REPORT WAS GOING

1968
00:56:51,213 --> 00:56:52,781
TO COME OUT, ASKED HIM TO READ

1969
00:56:52,781 --> 00:56:55,617
IT, ASKED THE DEAN TO READ IT,

1970
00:56:55,617 --> 00:56:56,918
AND SHE GOT A COMMENT FROM THE

1971
00:56:56,918 --> 00:56:59,087
PRESIDENT OF M.I.T. APPROVING

1972
00:56:59,087 --> 00:57:00,722
THE PUBLICATION OF THIS REPORT,

1973
00:57:00,722 --> 00:57:03,024
AND HE MADE A COMMENT ABOUT IT,

1974
00:57:03,024 --> 00:57:04,893
WHICH CAME OVER MY EMAIL.

1975
00:57:04,893 --> 00:57:06,194
I CAN STILL REMEMBER SITTING

1976
00:57:06,194 --> 00:57:07,262
THERE AND SEEING THIS COMMENT

1977
00:57:07,262 --> 00:57:08,897
AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS

1978
00:57:08,897 --> 00:57:10,098
BELIEVED THAT GENDER

1979
00:57:10,098 --> 00:57:10,966
DISCRIMINATION IS PART

1980
00:57:10,966 --> 00:57:12,500
PERCEPTION, PART REALITY, TRUE,

1981
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:13,802
BUT I NOW UNDERSTAND THAT

1982
00:57:13,802 --> 00:57:15,170
REALITY IS THE GREATER PART OF

1983
00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:16,504
THE BALANCE.

1984
00:57:16,504 --> 00:57:19,808
AND THAT SENTENCE, I THOUGHT IN

1985
00:57:19,808 --> 00:57:21,977
MY LIFETIME, THE PRESIDENT OF A

1986
00:57:21,977 --> 00:57:23,478
UNIVERSITY WOULD SAY THAT, I

1987
00:57:23,478 --> 00:57:24,446
COULDN'T BELIEVE IT HAD

1988
00:57:24,446 --> 00:57:24,813
HAPPENED.

1989
00:57:24,813 --> 00:57:26,648
AND I KNEW IT WAS AMAZING BUT I

1990
00:57:26,648 --> 00:57:30,218
DIDN'T THINK ANYONE ELSE WHAT

1991
00:57:30,218 --> 00:57:31,987
WOULD UNDERSTAND HOW AMAZING IT

1992
00:57:31,987 --> 00:57:32,320
WAS.

1993
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,089
NOBODY CARES ABOUT US, NOBODY

1994
00:57:34,089 --> 00:57:34,389
CARES

1995
00:57:34,389 --> 00:57:35,523
>> AND YOU THOUGHT MAYBE
IT WAS

1996
00:57:35,523 --> 00:57:36,892
ONLY WOMEN AT M.I.T. THAT WERE

1997
00:57:36,892 --> 00:57:37,692
BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

1998
00:57:37,692 --> 00:57:38,994
>> RIGHT, I THOUGHT THIS
WAS A

1999
00:57:38,994 --> 00:57:40,562
LITTLE M.I.T. PROBLEM.

2000
00:57:40,562 --> 00:57:47,502
LO TTI EBAYLAND KNEW THIS WAS A

2001
00:57:47,502 --> 00:57:48,470
BIG PROBLEM, I DID NOT.

2002
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:50,071
>> SO MY STORY RUNS ON THE
FRONT

2003
00:57:50,071 --> 00:57:51,640
PAGE OF THE BOSTON SUNDAY GLOBE,

2004
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,842
AND THE NEXT MORNING, THERE'S A

2005
00:57:53,842 --> 00:57:55,744
CBS EVENING NEWS CREW OUTSIDE OF

2006
00:57:55,744 --> 00:57:56,278
BOB'S OFFICE.

2007
00:57:56,278 --> 00:57:57,045
YOUR PHONE IS RINGING.

2008
00:57:57,045 --> 00:57:59,247
I REMEMBER TRYING TO CALL NANCY

2009
00:57:59,247 --> 00:58:00,849
JUST TO CHECK IN AFTER THE STORY

2010
00:58:00,849 --> 00:58:02,150
RUNS, AND THESE ARE THE DAYS OF

2011
00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:02,717
THE BUSY SIGNAL.

2012
00:58:02,717 --> 00:58:06,221
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE --

2013
00:58:06,221 --> 00:58:08,256
I COULD NOT REACH NANCY FOR LIKE

2014
00:58:08,256 --> 00:58:09,791
TWO WEEKS, YOUR PHONE WAS BUSY.

2015
00:58:09,791 --> 00:58:12,594
AND SO I FINALLY EMAILED YOU.

2016
00:58:12,594 --> 00:58:15,463
ANYWAY, BUT SO WHAT WAS THE

2017
00:58:15,463 --> 00:58:16,865
REACTION, HOW DID YOU FEEL

2018
00:58:16,865 --> 00:58:18,366
READING THE EMAILS?  WAS IT --

2019
00:58:18,366 --> 00:58:21,069
>> WELL, FIRST I GO OUT
AND GET

2020
00:58:21,069 --> 00:58:22,170
"THE BOSTON GLOBE" AND I SEE

2021
00:58:22,170 --> 00:58:24,773
KATE'S STORY ON THE FRONT PAGE

2022
00:58:24,773 --> 00:58:26,675
AND I FIGURE MY CAREER AND LIFE

2023
00:58:26,675 --> 00:58:27,976
IS OVER AND FIGURE THIS IS NOT A

2024
00:58:27,976 --> 00:58:28,510
GOOD THING.

2025
00:58:28,510 --> 00:58:31,012
THEN I GET AN EMAIL FROM THE

2026
00:58:31,012 --> 00:58:32,781
PRESIDENT OF M.I.T. SAYING

2027
00:58:32,781 --> 00:58:33,848
CONGRATULATIONS, I THINK WHAT?

2028
00:58:33,848 --> 00:58:34,983
HE SAYS WELL, IT WAS A TOUGH

2029
00:58:34,983 --> 00:58:36,484
STORY BUT IT WAS FAIR, AND IT

2030
00:58:36,484 --> 00:58:38,119
GAVE CREDIT WHERE THE CREDIT WAS

2031
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:39,421
DUE, WHICH WAS TO YOUR GROUP OF

2032
00:58:39,421 --> 00:58:40,622
WOMEN FACULTY, SO

2033
00:58:40,622 --> 00:58:42,390
CONGRATULATIONS.

2034
00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:43,658
AND -- BUT NONE NONE OF US

2035
00:58:43,658 --> 00:58:44,292
REALLY PREPARED FOR THE

2036
00:58:44,292 --> 00:58:44,960
MAGNITUDE OF WHAT HAPPENED.

2037
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,895
I MEAN, WE WERE OVERWHELMED, THE

2038
00:58:46,895 --> 00:58:50,298
PRESIDENT WAS OVERWEMM OVERWHELE

2039
00:58:50,298 --> 00:58:53,368
DEAN WAS OVERWHELMED, THE

2040
00:58:53,368 --> 00:58:54,102
EMAILS, THE PHONE CALLS.

2041
00:58:54,102 --> 00:58:55,837
>> "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
PUT IT

2042
00:58:55,837 --> 00:58:58,206
ON ITS FRONT PAGE TUESDAY.

2043
00:58:58,206 --> 00:59:00,175
>> I PICKED UP THE PHONE,
CAME

2044
00:59:00,175 --> 00:59:01,609
IN AND IT WAS SOMEBODY SAYING

2045
00:59:01,609 --> 00:59:03,244
HELLO, YOU'RE ON THE AIR IN --

2046
00:59:03,244 --> 00:59:04,512
WHERE WAS IT, AUSTRALIA.

2047
00:59:04,512 --> 00:59:04,946
THAT'S RIGHT.

2048
00:59:04,946 --> 00:59:08,116
AND I SAID OH, MY GOD, YOU KNOW,

2049
00:59:08,116 --> 00:59:09,517
THAT'S SO BIZARRE.

2050
00:59:09,517 --> 00:59:10,218
ANYWAY, THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED.

2051
00:59:10,218 --> 00:59:12,520
BUT IT WAS THE EMAIL FROM WOMEN

2052
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,356
AND THEY'RE ALL THE SAME, YOUR

2053
00:59:14,356 --> 00:59:16,324
STORY IS MY STORY.

2054
00:59:16,324 --> 00:59:19,394
AND SO IT WAS THIS UNIVERSAL

2055
00:59:19,394 --> 00:59:20,795
TRUTH IN SOME PROBLEM, WHICH HAD

2056
00:59:20,795 --> 00:59:23,932
BEEN SORT OF QUIET, AND WAS

2057
00:59:23,932 --> 00:59:24,833
DEFINED BY THESE WOMEN.

2058
00:59:24,833 --> 00:59:27,769
THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WELL,

2059
00:59:27,769 --> 00:59:29,871
THERE'S SO MANY QUESTIONS, BUT

2060
00:59:29,871 --> 00:59:33,108
LOOKING BACK, WHY WERE WE SO

2061
00:59:33,108 --> 00:59:36,177
SLOW TO UNDERSTAND THIS PROBLEM?

2062
00:59:36,177 --> 00:59:39,214
BECAUSE A FEMINISTS WERE OUT THE

2063
00:59:39,214 --> 00:59:42,384
TELLING US ALL ABOUT IT, WRITE?

2064
00:59:42,384 --> 00:59:43,051
, RIGHT?

2065
00:59:43,051 --> 00:59:44,486
WHY DIDN'T WE HEAR THEM

2066
00:59:44,486 --> 00:59:44,753
CORRECTLY?

2067
00:59:44,753 --> 00:59:46,554
I LOOK BACK ON THAT WITH GUILT

2068
00:59:46,554 --> 00:59:47,489
BECAUSE THOSE WOMEN TRIED TO

2069
00:59:47,489 --> 00:59:48,923
TELL US -- THEY WERE OLDER

2070
00:59:48,923 --> 00:59:50,625
GENERALLY, THE FIRST ONES, JUST

2071
00:59:50,625 --> 00:59:52,060
SLIGHTLY OLDER THAN ME.

2072
00:59:52,060 --> 00:59:53,928
WHY DIDN'T WE LISTEN TO THEM?

2073
00:59:53,928 --> 00:59:55,530
I FEEL GREAT GUILT ABOUT THAT.

2074
00:59:55,530 --> 00:59:57,732
THEY TOLD US OR TRYING TO TELL

2075
00:59:57,732 --> 01:00:00,035
US HOW AWFUL IT WAS GOING TO BE.

2076
01:00:00,035 --> 01:00:01,269
BOB MCCLINTOCK TOLD ME DON'T

2077
01:00:01,269 --> 01:00:02,971
TAKE THAT JOB AT M.I.T., YOU

2078
01:00:02,971 --> 01:00:05,607
WON'T BE ABLE TO STAND THE

2079
01:00:05,607 --> 01:00:06,074
DISCRIMINATION.

2080
01:00:06,074 --> 01:00:07,776
I THOUGHT WHY IS THIS OLD WOMAN

2081
01:00:07,776 --> 01:00:08,543
TELLING ME THIS?

2082
01:00:08,543 --> 01:00:09,711
>> BUT THAT'S PART OF THE

2083
01:00:09,711 --> 01:00:11,046
PROBLEM, IT'S REFLECTIVE OF THE

2084
01:00:11,046 --> 01:00:11,813
INVISIBILITY THAT WE TALKED

2085
01:00:11,813 --> 01:00:12,113
ABOUT.

2086
01:00:12,113 --> 01:00:13,248
>> I THINK ALSO IF YOU'RE
A

2087
01:00:13,248 --> 01:00:14,449
YOUNG PERSON AND YOU'RE IN LOVE

2088
01:00:14,449 --> 01:00:16,885
WITH SCIENCE, JIM WATSON IS

2089
01:00:16,885 --> 01:00:18,253
ENCOURAGING YOU TO BE A

2090
01:00:18,253 --> 01:00:20,088
SCIENTIST, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

2091
01:00:20,088 --> 01:00:21,222
YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.

2092
01:00:21,222 --> 01:00:22,057
YOU'RE NOT HAVING A PROBLEM.

2093
01:00:22,057 --> 01:00:23,258
YOU'RE A STUDENT, YOU DON'T HAVE

2094
01:00:23,258 --> 01:00:24,993
ANY POWER, SO IF YOU'RE LUCKY,

2095
01:00:24,993 --> 01:00:26,094
YOU FELL INTO THE RIGHT SPOT,

2096
01:00:26,094 --> 01:00:28,163
YOU HAD A GOOD MENTOR, YOU GET

2097
01:00:28,163 --> 01:00:29,264
OFFERED A JOB AT M.I.T., WHAT DO

2098
01:00:29,264 --> 01:00:30,698
YOU HAVE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT?

2099
01:00:30,698 --> 01:00:32,534
SO I JUST THOUGHT THOSE

2100
01:00:32,534 --> 01:00:34,402
FEMINISTS WERE A LITTLE OLDER

2101
01:00:34,402 --> 01:00:37,338
AND THEY HAD ENCOUNTERED THE

2102
01:00:37,338 --> 01:00:39,407
PROBLEM BUT IT HAD BEEN SOLVED

2103
01:00:39,407 --> 01:00:40,809
AS CIVIL RIGHTS, AFFIRMATIVE

2104
01:00:40,809 --> 01:00:42,444
ACTION, THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT.

2105
01:00:42,444 --> 01:00:43,211
MY GENERATION WAS NOT GOING TO

2106
01:00:43,211 --> 01:00:43,978
HAVE A PROBLEM.

2107
01:00:43,978 --> 01:00:46,181
BUT WE DISCOVERED THERE WERE

2108
01:00:46,181 --> 01:00:46,981
THESE TWO PROBLEMS, WOMEN

2109
01:00:46,981 --> 01:00:48,016
COULDN'T HAVE CHILDREN AND THEN

2110
01:00:48,016 --> 01:00:49,651
WE DISCOVERED THIS UNCONSCIOUS

2111
01:00:49,651 --> 01:00:53,354
BIAS THAT UNDERVALUED WOMEN AND

2112
01:00:53,354 --> 01:00:55,223
EXCLUDED WOMEN FROM FULL

2113
01:00:55,223 --> 01:00:55,557
PARTICIPATION.

2114
01:00:55,557 --> 01:00:57,192
>> ONE OF THE EMAILS THAT
I

2115
01:00:57,192 --> 01:00:59,394
REMEMBER READING, I THINK IT WAS

2116
01:00:59,394 --> 01:01:00,829
PERHAPS A WOMAN IN ALASKA, BUT

2117
01:01:00,829 --> 01:01:02,330
FIRST SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, WE'VE

2118
01:01:02,330 --> 01:01:03,798
FELT THIS WAY FOR A LONG TIME

2119
01:01:03,798 --> 01:01:05,433
AND NOW THE POWER -- NOW THE

2120
01:01:05,433 --> 01:01:07,469
GREAT M.I.T. IS SAYING IT SO THE

2121
01:01:07,469 --> 01:01:08,670
WORLD WILL RECOGNIZE IT IS TRUE,

2122
01:01:08,670 --> 01:01:11,406
BUT SHE WAS ALSO SAYING, IMAGINE

2123
01:01:11,406 --> 01:01:13,341
WHAT IT LAKE TO BE AT A SMALLER

2124
01:01:13,341 --> 01:01:14,442
INSTITUTION THAT DOESN'T HAVE

2125
01:01:14,442 --> 01:01:15,844
THE RESOURCES THAT M.I.T. DOES,

2126
01:01:15,844 --> 01:01:16,945
IMAGINE HOW MUCH MORE

2127
01:01:16,945 --> 01:01:18,680
DISADVANTAGED WOMEN ARE BECAUSE

2128
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,349
EVERYBODY IS MORE DISADVANTAGED

2129
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:23,818
BY COMPARISON, RELATIVELY

2130
01:01:23,818 --> 01:01:24,385
SPEAKING.

2131
01:01:24,385 --> 01:01:26,121
SO I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU

2132
01:01:26,121 --> 01:01:29,090
DIDN'T SEE IT BECAUSE ALL OF YOU

2133
01:01:29,090 --> 01:01:31,359
REALLY WERE SO INTENT ON BEING

2134
01:01:31,359 --> 01:01:32,360
SCIENTISTS, AND YOU DIDN'T WANT

2135
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,029
TO GET OFF TRACK FROM ANYTHING,

2136
01:01:35,029 --> 01:01:37,031
EVEN WHEN YOU WENT AND YOU WERE

2137
01:01:37,031 --> 01:01:38,366
INVITED TO GIVE HOW MANY TALKS

2138
01:01:38,366 --> 01:01:38,633
AFTERWARD?

2139
01:01:38,633 --> 01:01:40,568
I MEAN, YOU GAVE 200 IS IT?

2140
01:01:40,568 --> 01:01:40,735
400?

2141
01:01:40,735 --> 01:01:42,337
>> I DON'T KNOW, BUT
CERTAINLY

2142
01:01:42,337 --> 01:01:43,571
IN THE THOUSANDS.

2143
01:01:43,571 --> 01:01:45,140
I THINK IT JUST ASTONISHING.

2144
01:01:45,140 --> 01:01:46,207
AND IT CAME FROM ALL OVER THE

2145
01:01:46,207 --> 01:01:46,641
WORLD.

2146
01:01:46,641 --> 01:01:47,609
IT WASN'T JUST THE UNITED

2147
01:01:47,609 --> 01:01:47,842
STATES.

2148
01:01:47,842 --> 01:01:50,578
IT WAS JUST REMARKABLE.

2149
01:01:50,578 --> 01:01:51,346
FIRST IT WAS WOMEN.

2150
01:01:51,346 --> 01:01:52,614
FIRST IT WAS WOMEN TRYING TO GET

2151
01:01:52,614 --> 01:01:54,215
THEIR SCHOOLS TO ASK -- HAVE YOU

2152
01:01:54,215 --> 01:01:56,351
COME AND SPEAK, THEN IT WAS

2153
01:01:56,351 --> 01:01:57,318
ADMINISTRATORS IN THOSE SCHOOLS

2154
01:01:57,318 --> 01:01:58,753
ASKING YOU TO COME AND TELL YOU

2155
01:01:58,753 --> 01:02:02,624
HOW M.I.T. HAD FIXED THE PROB 

2156
01:02:02,624 --> 01:02:02,857
PROBLEM.

2157
01:02:02,857 --> 01:02:04,325
>> BUT YOU WOULD ALWAYS --
AGAIN

2158
01:02:04,325 --> 01:02:06,161
AS A REFLECTION OF HOW MUCH THE

2159
01:02:06,161 --> 01:02:07,595
SCIENCE MEANT TO YOU, YOU WOULD

2160
01:02:07,595 --> 01:02:08,663
ALWAYS GIVE TWO TALKS.

2161
01:02:08,663 --> 01:02:09,998
ONE TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU CALL

2162
01:02:09,998 --> 01:02:11,299
YOUR WOMEN'S WORK AND ONE TALK

2163
01:02:11,299 --> 01:02:12,433
ABOUT YOUR SCIENCE, BECAUSE YOU

2164
01:02:12,433 --> 01:02:14,068
REALLY WANTED TO LEAD WITH THE

2165
01:02:14,068 --> 01:02:15,403
SCIENCE, YOU WANTED TO BE KNOWN

2166
01:02:15,403 --> 01:02:17,071
AS A SCIENTIST.

2167
01:02:17,071 --> 01:02:23,344
>> I WASN'T A WAS ASKED TO
GIVEI

2168
01:02:23,344 --> 01:02:24,979
WAS TRAVELING ANYWAY, THEY SAID

2169
01:02:24,979 --> 01:02:26,414
WELL WE'LL ASK HER TO GIVE THIS

2170
01:02:26,414 --> 01:02:26,948
WOMEN'S TALK TOO.

2171
01:02:26,948 --> 01:02:28,783
I DID A LOT OF THEM AND AGAIN

2172
01:02:28,783 --> 01:02:29,784
THE FASCINATING THING WAS

2173
01:02:29,784 --> 01:02:31,085
MEETING WOMEN AND HAVING THEM --

2174
01:02:31,085 --> 01:02:32,253
LET ME TELL YOU MY STORY.

2175
01:02:32,253 --> 01:02:33,154
THEY'D COME AND START TO TELL

2176
01:02:33,154 --> 01:02:35,557
YOU THE STORY, THEY'D TAKE JUST

2177
01:02:35,557 --> 01:02:37,125
THE FIRST SETUP, AND YOU'D KNOW

2178
01:02:37,125 --> 01:02:39,027
EXACTLY WHAT HAD HAPPENED.

2179
01:02:39,027 --> 01:02:40,128
YOU KNEW THE ANSWER TO WHAT THEY

2180
01:02:40,128 --> 01:02:41,229
WERE GOING TO TELL YOU BEFORE

2181
01:02:41,229 --> 01:02:42,430
THEY TOLD YOU THE STORY BECAUSE

2182
01:02:42,430 --> 01:02:44,065
IT WAS JUST THE PROBLEMS WERE SO

2183
01:02:44,065 --> 01:02:44,799
UNIVERSAL.

2184
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:46,201
IT WAS REALLY REMARKABLE.

2185
01:02:46,201 --> 01:02:48,169
>> SO TELL US A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT

2186
01:02:48,169 --> 01:02:49,771
WHAT M.I.T. DID IN RESPONSE.

2187
01:02:49,771 --> 01:02:51,606
SO YOU WERE -- THERE AGAIN,

2188
01:02:51,606 --> 01:02:52,974
THERE'D NEVER BEEN WOMEN IN THE

2189
01:02:52,974 --> 01:02:54,609
ADMINISTRATION, SO YOU WERE PUT

2190
01:02:54,609 --> 01:02:57,545
ON THE ACADEMIC COUNCIL?

2191
01:02:57,545 --> 01:03:00,348
>> SO -- I LOVE THIS
BECAUSE

2192
01:03:00,348 --> 01:03:02,417
KATE'S BOOK, I THINK SHE DID AN

2193
01:03:02,417 --> 01:03:03,418
INCREDIBLE JOB BUT SHE DOESN'T

2194
01:03:03,418 --> 01:03:04,586
REALLY GET INTO HOW DID M.I.T.

2195
01:03:04,586 --> 01:03:06,054
FIX THE PROBLEM SO MUCH, AND I

2196
01:03:06,054 --> 01:03:08,323
ASKED HER WHY, AND SHE SAID,

2197
01:03:08,323 --> 01:03:09,591
BECAUSE ACADEMIC ADMINISTRATION

2198
01:03:09,591 --> 01:03:11,226
IS ABOUT AS EXCITING AS WATCHING

2199
01:03:11,226 --> 01:03:13,127
PAINT DRY.

2200
01:03:13,127 --> 01:03:15,763
[LAUGHTER 

2201
01:03:15,763 --> 01:03:16,164
[LAUGHTER ?CHT

2202
01:03:16,164 --> 01:03:18,366
>> BUT THERE ARE LESSONS
TO BE

2203
01:03:18,366 --> 01:03:19,901
BE LEARNED, THERE'S SOME LESSONS

2204
01:03:19,901 --> 01:03:20,201
IN THE BOOK.

2205
01:03:20,201 --> 01:03:23,071
>> BUT FOR THOSE OF US
TRYING TO

2206
01:03:23,071 --> 01:03:25,340
FIX THESE PROBLEMS IN THESE

2207
01:03:25,340 --> 01:03:26,207
INSTITUTIONS, HOW DO YOU DO IT,

2208
01:03:26,207 --> 01:03:27,175
WHAT DO YOU DO?

2209
01:03:27,175 --> 01:03:29,244
SO I'VE BEEN DOING ALL THIS WORK

2210
01:03:29,244 --> 01:03:30,345
FROM MY OFFICE, OF COURSE, AND

2211
01:03:30,345 --> 01:03:33,848
HAD NO APPOINTMENT -- BOB WAS

2212
01:03:33,848 --> 01:03:35,149
GOING TO LEAVE M.I.T. AND I

2213
01:03:35,149 --> 01:03:36,784
SPOKE TO THE PRESIDENT OF M.I.T.

2214
01:03:36,784 --> 01:03:39,120
AND THE PROVOST, THIS WONDERFUL

2215
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:40,388
MAN, BOB BROWN.

2216
01:03:40,388 --> 01:03:41,689
THEY SPENT SOME MONTHS TRYING TO

2217
01:03:41,689 --> 01:03:43,992
DECIDE WHAT TO DO, AND SO THEY

2218
01:03:43,992 --> 01:03:48,162
DESAIDEDDECIDED TO APPOINT ME TE

2219
01:03:48,162 --> 01:03:48,930
CENTRAL ADMINISTRATION TO WORK

2220
01:03:48,930 --> 01:03:50,965
WITH THE PROVOST, I CO-CHAIR A

2221
01:03:50,965 --> 01:03:51,866
COMMITTEE WITH THE PROVOST.

2222
01:03:51,866 --> 01:03:53,501
HE HAS THE POWER AND THE MONEY

2223
01:03:53,501 --> 01:03:55,570
TO FIX THINGS.

2224
01:03:55,570 --> 01:03:57,105
AND I SERVE ON THE HIGHEST

2225
01:03:57,105 --> 01:03:59,741
COMMITTEE WITH THE PRESIDENT AND

2226
01:03:59,741 --> 01:04:02,243
THESE DEANS, AND THIS COMMITTEE

2227
01:04:02,243 --> 01:04:04,646
WOULD HAVE ON IT THE DEANS OF

2228
01:04:04,646 --> 01:04:07,148
SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING, AND WE

2229
01:04:07,148 --> 01:04:09,884
ALSO TOOK ON THIS ISSUE, WHICH

2230
01:04:09,884 --> 01:04:13,054
AGAIN I ALSO FEEL, WHEN WE

2231
01:04:13,054 --> 01:04:14,155
STARTED OUT IT WAS 16 WOMEN.

2232
01:04:14,155 --> 01:04:16,224
THEY WERE ALL WHITE WOMEN, AND

2233
01:04:16,224 --> 01:04:19,027
WHEN WE WENT -- THE QUESTION WAS

2234
01:04:19,027 --> 01:04:20,828
WHETHER THIS COMMITTEE SHOULD

2235
01:04:20,828 --> 01:04:22,430
DEAL WITH WOMEN OR WOMEN AND

2236
01:04:22,430 --> 01:04:23,965
MINORITY AFFAIRS.

2237
01:04:23,965 --> 01:04:29,003
AND THIS WAS A VERY INTERESTING

2238
01:04:29,003 --> 01:04:30,538
THING, BECAUSE, WELL, IT ANOTHER

2239
01:04:30,538 --> 01:04:33,274
LONG STORY, BUT JUST VERY

2240
01:04:33,274 --> 01:04:34,876
BRIEFLY, WE WANTED TO DO BOTH,

2241
01:04:34,876 --> 01:04:35,943
AND THIS WAS WHERE WE LEARNED --

2242
01:04:35,943 --> 01:04:37,712
I HAD REALLY THOUGHT -- WELL

2243
01:04:37,712 --> 01:04:38,513
FIRST OF ALL I'D NEVER THOUGHT

2244
01:04:38,513 --> 01:04:39,314
OF DOING ANY OF THIS.

2245
01:04:39,314 --> 01:04:42,884
ALL I WANTED WAS 200 SQUARE FEET

2246
01:04:42,884 --> 01:04:45,520
OF SPACE, I WOULD HAVE BEEN

2247
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:46,921
HAPPY, WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THIS,

2248
01:04:46,921 --> 01:04:48,122
BUT NOW HERE WE ARE TRYING TO

2249
01:04:48,122 --> 01:04:49,257
FIX THIS PROBLEM FOR THE WHOLE

2250
01:04:49,257 --> 01:04:49,590
UNIVERSITY.

2251
01:04:49,590 --> 01:04:50,825
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE

2252
01:04:50,825 --> 01:04:51,726
DISCOVERED -- I ALWAYS THOUGHT

2253
01:04:51,726 --> 01:04:52,360
WOMEN WERE WOMEN.

2254
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:53,795
IT WAS ONE BIG GROUP.

2255
01:04:53,795 --> 01:04:54,762
YOU SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, YOU'D

2256
01:04:54,762 --> 01:04:56,064
SOLVE IT FOR ALL GROUPS.

2257
01:04:56,064 --> 01:04:58,800
BUT OF COURSE IT TURNS OUT THAT,

2258
01:04:58,800 --> 01:04:59,901
NO.

2259
01:04:59,901 --> 01:05:01,869
THERE ARE MANY, MANY

2260
01:05:01,869 --> 01:05:03,838
SUBDIVISIONS OF THIS PROBLEM.

2261
01:05:03,838 --> 01:05:07,809
AND WE HAD AN EXTRAORDINARY

2262
01:05:07,809 --> 01:05:10,878
WOMAN NAMED EVELYN HAMMONDS, AN

2263
01:05:10,878 --> 01:05:13,047
EXTRAORDINARY SCIENCE PERSON.

2264
01:05:13,047 --> 01:05:14,449
SHE WAS AT M.I.T. AT THE TIME,

2265
01:05:14,449 --> 01:05:15,883
SHE WAS BLACK, AND SHE WAS THE

2266
01:05:15,883 --> 01:05:17,685
PERSON THAT TAUGHT US ABOUT THE

2267
01:05:17,685 --> 01:05:18,820
DOUBLE BLIND FOR WOMEN OF COLOR.

2268
01:05:18,820 --> 01:05:20,488
SO SHE WAS A PART OF THIS --

2269
01:05:20,488 --> 01:05:22,423
>> AND THE DOUBLE BLIND IS
THAT

2270
01:05:22,423 --> 01:05:24,525
PROGRAMS FOR WOMEN -- PROGRAMS

2271
01:05:24,525 --> 01:05:27,462
TO HELP WOMEN TENDED TO END UP

2272
01:05:27,462 --> 01:05:28,663
HELPING WHITE WOMEN, AND

2273
01:05:28,663 --> 01:05:30,531
PROGRAMS FOR UNDERREPRESENTED

2274
01:05:30,531 --> 01:05:31,199
MINORITIES, PARTICULARLY BLACK

2275
01:05:31,199 --> 01:05:32,600
PEOPLE, ENDED UP HELPING MEN IN

2276
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:33,201
THOSE GROUPS.

2277
01:05:33,201 --> 01:05:36,971
SO WOMEN ARE IN THE NO WOMAN'S

2278
01:05:36,971 --> 01:05:37,171
LAND.

2279
01:05:37,171 --> 01:05:39,741
>> SO THE BIG DEAL OF WORK
DONE

2280
01:05:39,741 --> 01:05:40,375
ON THAT.

2281
01:05:40,375 --> 01:05:43,111
THEN WE HAD ALSO ANOTHER WOMAN

2282
01:05:43,111 --> 01:05:44,712
WHO REALLY CHANGED THE SCHOOL OF

2283
01:05:44,712 --> 01:05:45,012
ENGINEERING.

2284
01:05:45,012 --> 01:05:46,514
HER NAME IS LONA GIBSON.

2285
01:05:46,514 --> 01:05:52,120
SHE WORKED ON THE LGQT ISSUES,

2286
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:53,321
BECAUSE SHE/HER SELF WAS GAY AND

2287
01:05:53,321 --> 01:05:55,923
SHE DID A SURVEY TO FIND OUT HOW

2288
01:05:55,923 --> 01:05:57,291
MANY GAY PEOPLE WERE IN THE

2289
01:05:57,291 --> 01:05:59,127
SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING, WHICH HAS

2290
01:05:59,127 --> 01:06:00,428
ABOUT 350 FACULTY, AND SHE

2291
01:06:00,428 --> 01:06:01,329
DISCOVERED THERE WERE ONLY TWO

2292
01:06:01,329 --> 01:06:02,964
AND SHE DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS

2293
01:06:02,964 --> 01:06:03,798
REALLY POSSIBLE.

2294
01:06:03,798 --> 01:06:05,333
NO, SHE SAID, BECAUSE THEN SHE

2295
01:06:05,333 --> 01:06:06,768
REALIZED THAT OF COURSE THEY

2296
01:06:06,768 --> 01:06:08,069
WERE NOT ABLE TO ADMIT THAT THEY

2297
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:09,604
WERE GAY IN THAT ERA.

2298
01:06:09,604 --> 01:06:12,106
AND SO SHE BECAME AN ADVOCATE

2299
01:06:12,106 --> 01:06:14,442
FOR THAT WHOLE -- BEFORE IT

2300
01:06:14,442 --> 01:06:16,978
BECAME MUCH BROADER AT M.I.T.

2301
01:06:16,978 --> 01:06:19,380
AND SHE WORKED WITH THE DEAN OF

2302
01:06:19,380 --> 01:06:20,548
ENGINEERING TO DO -- FOR THAT

2303
01:06:20,548 --> 01:06:22,650
SCHOOL, WHAT HAD BEEN DONE IN

2304
01:06:22,650 --> 01:06:24,085
SCIENCE AND THEY TRANSFORMED THE

2305
01:06:24,085 --> 01:06:24,619
SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING.

2306
01:06:24,619 --> 01:06:26,354
I MEAN, THEY LITERALLY DID.

2307
01:06:26,354 --> 01:06:27,688
>> ONE OF THE LESSONS I
THINK

2308
01:06:27,688 --> 01:06:29,223
FROM ENGINEERING IS THAT --

2309
01:06:29,223 --> 01:06:29,991
WELL, ONE OF THE LESSONS FROM

2310
01:06:29,991 --> 01:06:31,726
THE WHOLE STORY IS THAT TO GET

2311
01:06:31,726 --> 01:06:32,927
MORE WOMEN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO

2312
01:06:32,927 --> 01:06:33,661
LOWER STANDARDS.

2313
01:06:33,661 --> 01:06:34,295
LIKE LET'S JUST --

2314
01:06:34,295 --> 01:06:36,264
>> THAT WAS THE CRITICAL,

2315
01:06:36,264 --> 01:06:37,331
CRITICAL -- THANK YOU FOR

2316
01:06:37,331 --> 01:06:37,999
BRINGING THAT UP.

2317
01:06:37,999 --> 01:06:39,400
I HOPE EVERY ONE OF YOU BRINGS

2318
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:40,835
THIS UP EVERY TIME YOU HEAR

2319
01:06:40,835 --> 01:06:42,236
ANYBODY TALK ABOUT THIS, WHICH

2320
01:06:42,236 --> 01:06:43,237
YOU FREQUENTLY DO.

2321
01:06:43,237 --> 01:06:45,206
HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY -- AND

2322
01:06:45,206 --> 01:06:47,508
THE WOMEN -- THE MOST ADAMANT

2323
01:06:47,508 --> 01:06:49,477
ABOUT THIS, THOSE WOMEN WERE SO

2324
01:06:49,477 --> 01:06:50,244
AFRAID, OF COURSE THEY ALWAYS

2325
01:06:50,244 --> 01:06:51,546
ARE, THAT IF YOU HIRE SOMEBODY

2326
01:06:51,546 --> 01:06:53,981
WHO'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH, THAT WILL

2327
01:06:53,981 --> 01:06:55,483
LOWER ALL OF THEM.

2328
01:06:55,483 --> 01:06:57,652
AND SO YES.

2329
01:06:57,652 --> 01:07:00,087
>> SO ENGINEERING ENDED UP
WITH

2330
01:07:00,087 --> 01:07:02,056
REALLY IMPROVING -- ENGINEERING

2331
01:07:02,056 --> 01:07:04,459
WHICH IS A VERY MALE FIELD

2332
01:07:04,459 --> 01:07:04,826
TRADITIONALLY --

2333
01:07:04,826 --> 01:07:06,994
>> HAD% OF 

2334
01:07:08,229 --> 01:07:10,832
>> 4% OF THE FACULTY WERE
WOMEN.

2335
01:07:10,832 --> 01:07:13,568
THE DEAN TOOK IT ON, HE READ THE

2336
01:07:13,568 --> 01:07:16,737
REPORT, READ LONA'S REPORT, WAS

2337
01:07:16,737 --> 01:07:18,473
BLOWN AWAY, SAID IT WAS

2338
01:07:18,473 --> 01:07:19,040
UNACCEPTABLE.

2339
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,341
HE SET UP A THING, HE CALLED

2340
01:07:20,341 --> 01:07:22,410
IT -- INSTEAD OF JUST TAKING THE

2341
01:07:22,410 --> 01:07:23,311
APPLICATIONS THAT COME IN, YOU

2342
01:07:23,311 --> 01:07:26,280
ACTUALLY GO OUT AND SEARCH FOR

2343
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:27,815
EXCEPTIONAL WOMEN THAT YOU CAN

2344
01:07:27,815 --> 01:07:28,115
HIRE.

2345
01:07:28,115 --> 01:07:29,250
THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

2346
01:07:29,250 --> 01:07:30,718
AND SUDDENLY THEY HIRED THESE

2347
01:07:30,718 --> 01:07:31,385
WOMEN.

2348
01:07:31,385 --> 01:07:32,253
SO PEOPLE SAID OH, THIS IS NOT

2349
01:07:32,253 --> 01:07:33,387
GOING TO WORK OUT.

2350
01:07:33,387 --> 01:07:34,689
AND THEY GOT THESE WOMEN, AND

2351
01:07:34,689 --> 01:07:36,090
THEY TURNED OUT TO BE

2352
01:07:36,090 --> 01:07:37,291
PHENOMENAL, AND MANY OF THEM ARE

2353
01:07:37,291 --> 01:07:38,559
NOW CHAIRMAN OF DEPARTMENTS AND

2354
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:39,293
SO FORTH.

2355
01:07:39,293 --> 01:07:40,461
PEOPLE SAY WHERE WERE THOSE

2356
01:07:40,461 --> 01:07:40,895
WOMEN?

2357
01:07:40,895 --> 01:07:42,029
WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW ABOUT THESE

2358
01:07:42,029 --> 01:07:42,530
WOMEN?

2359
01:07:42,530 --> 01:07:44,899
AND MANY OF THEM HAD NOT APPLIED

2360
01:07:44,899 --> 01:07:46,801
TO M.I.T. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T

2361
01:07:46,801 --> 01:07:48,135
THINK THEY FIT THE SLOT OR THE

2362
01:07:48,135 --> 01:07:48,903
DESCRIPTION OF THE JOB OR

2363
01:07:48,903 --> 01:07:49,570
WHATEVER IT WAS.

2364
01:07:49,570 --> 01:07:50,972
SO THEY BROADENED THE FIELD,

2365
01:07:50,972 --> 01:07:51,305
REALLY.

2366
01:07:51,305 --> 01:07:52,507
I MEAN, YOU COULD DO IT AT

2367
01:07:52,507 --> 01:07:52,840
M.I.T.

2368
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,610
IT'THEY WERE BIG ENOUGH

2369
01:07:55,610 --> 01:07:56,377
DEPARTMENTS.

2370
01:07:56,377 --> 01:07:58,679
YOU COULD BROADEN THE FIELD AND

2371
01:07:58,679 --> 01:08:00,314
HAVE SOMEBODY JUST STUDY GREEN

2372
01:08:00,314 --> 01:08:02,183
WIDGETS, YOU MIGHT GET BLUE

2373
01:08:02,183 --> 01:08:02,817
WIDGETS OR WHATEVER IT WAS, SO

2374
01:08:02,817 --> 01:08:04,685
THAT WAS HOW THEY DID IT, BUT

2375
01:08:04,685 --> 01:08:05,720
THEY NEVER CHANGED THE QUALITY.

2376
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,121
YOU CANNOT DO THAT AT M.I.T.,

2377
01:08:07,121 --> 01:08:08,623
THAT'S JUST A DISASTER, YOU'RE

2378
01:08:08,623 --> 01:08:09,724
NOT HELPING ANYBODY.

2379
01:08:09,724 --> 01:08:11,259
SO THEY FOUND PHENOMENAL PEOPLE

2380
01:08:11,259 --> 01:08:13,261
AND THEY'VE THRIVED AND --

2381
01:08:13,261 --> 01:08:16,597
>> SO HALF THE DEPARTMENTS
IN

2382
01:08:16,597 --> 01:08:18,466
ENGINEERING NOW ARE LED BY

2383
01:08:18,466 --> 01:08:18,666
WOMEN.

2384
01:08:18,666 --> 01:08:19,767
>> CHAIRS OF HALF THE

2385
01:08:19,767 --> 01:08:20,234
DEPARTMENTS LAST YEAR.

2386
01:08:20,234 --> 01:08:21,836
I DON'T KNOW -- I HAVEN'T

2387
01:08:21,836 --> 01:08:23,437
CHECKED AGAIN FOR THE LAST YEAR

2388
01:08:23,437 --> 01:08:24,839
OR TWO, BUT IT'S JUST AMAZING.

2389
01:08:24,839 --> 01:08:27,341
AND THEY WENT FROM 4% WOMEN TO

2390
01:08:27,341 --> 01:08:31,479
22% WOMEN, FACULTY, AND THAT'S

2391
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:31,779
REMARKABLE.

2392
01:08:31,779 --> 01:08:33,381
>> WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP
TO

2393
01:08:33,381 --> 01:08:35,016
QUESTIONS IN A FEW MINUTES IF

2394
01:08:35,016 --> 01:08:36,083
EVERYONE WANTS TO THINK ABOUT

2395
01:08:36,083 --> 01:08:38,319
WHAT THEY MIGHT WANT TO ASK BUT

2396
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:39,820
NANCY JUST TO WRAP UP WITH YOU,

2397
01:08:39,820 --> 01:08:41,689
HOW DO YOU LOOK BACK ON ALL OF

2398
01:08:41,689 --> 01:08:42,223
THIS NOW?

2399
01:08:42,223 --> 01:08:46,294
I MEAN, FOR A LONG TIME, IT SORT

2400
01:08:46,294 --> 01:08:47,261
OF BROKE MY HEART BECAUSE WE

2401
01:08:47,261 --> 01:08:48,462
WOULD TALK AND YOU WOULD SAY OH,

2402
01:08:48,462 --> 01:08:49,897
BUT THINK OF ALL THE SCIENCE I

2403
01:08:49,897 --> 01:08:52,400
COULD HAVE DONE IF I HADN'T BEEN

2404
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:53,301
MEASURING FLOORS AND RUNNING

2405
01:08:53,301 --> 01:08:55,136
AROUND GIVING TALKS ABOUT WOMEN

2406
01:08:55,136 --> 01:08:57,672
AND HAVING TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE

2407
01:08:57,672 --> 01:09:00,441
WHY THESE ARE STILL ISSUES.

2408
01:09:00,441 --> 01:09:01,909
>> AND IT'S ALL YOUR
FAULT.

2409
01:09:01,909 --> 01:09:04,011
>> IT'S ALL MY FAULT.

2410
01:09:04,011 --> 01:09:04,211
RIGHT.

2411
01:09:04,211 --> 01:09:05,980
SO BECAUSE I RUINED YOUR LIFE,

2412
01:09:05,980 --> 01:09:07,949
NOW TELL ME HOW YOU FEEL.

2413
01:09:07,949 --> 01:09:09,483
>> OBVIOUSLY IT'S SO MUCH
MORE

2414
01:09:09,483 --> 01:09:11,986
IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING I DID

2415
01:09:11,986 --> 01:09:12,486
MYSELF SCIENTIFICALLY.

2416
01:09:12,486 --> 01:09:14,021
>> THAT'S NOT TRUE, BUT
ANYWAY.

2417
01:09:14,021 --> 01:09:17,158
>> BUT WHO COULD IMAGINE
SUCH AN

2418
01:09:17,158 --> 01:09:17,391
OUTCOME?

2419
01:09:17,391 --> 01:09:18,960
IT NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND.

2420
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,228
I LOOKED BACK, HOW CLUELESS WERE

2421
01:09:21,228 --> 01:09:23,431
WE IN I'M ENORMOUSLY, YOU KNOW,

2422
01:09:23,431 --> 01:09:25,199
DELIGHTED THAT IT WORKED.

2423
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:31,172
I FEEL, WHERE ARE WE TODAY,

2424
01:09:31,172 --> 01:09:32,239
THAT'S WHAT -- I'M ALWAYS

2425
01:09:32,239 --> 01:09:33,074
LOOKING FORWARD.

2426
01:09:33,074 --> 01:09:34,041
WHERE ARE WE TODAY?

2427
01:09:34,041 --> 01:09:35,176
WHY WASN'T IT ENOUGH?

2428
01:09:35,176 --> 01:09:36,711
WHY DO WOMEN STILL HAVE

2429
01:09:36,711 --> 01:09:36,978
PROBLEMS?

2430
01:09:36,978 --> 01:09:38,446
DO THEY HAVE PROBLEMS?

2431
01:09:38,446 --> 01:09:41,215
I MEAN, WHAT'S -- WHERE ARE WE?

2432
01:09:41,215 --> 01:09:42,850
WHY IS THIS COUNTRY NOT ABLE TO

2433
01:09:42,850 --> 01:09:43,584
ELECT A WOMAN PRESIDENT?

2434
01:09:43,584 --> 01:09:45,119
I MEAN, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT

2435
01:09:45,119 --> 01:09:46,420
ALLOWED TO SPEAK ABOUT POLITICS

2436
01:09:46,420 --> 01:09:48,222
AT NIH SO I'M NOT GOING TO.

2437
01:09:48,222 --> 01:09:50,124
BUT IT REMARKABLE, REALLY, ISN'T

2438
01:09:50,124 --> 01:09:51,726
IT?

2439
01:09:51,726 --> 01:09:53,294
EXTRAORDINARY.

2440
01:09:53,294 --> 01:09:56,764
SO I'LL SAY -- TWO COMMENTS.

2441
01:09:56,764 --> 01:09:58,532
ONE WAS PRESIDENT VEST, HE USED

2442
01:09:58,532 --> 01:10:00,468
TO COME TO OUR COMMITTEE

2443
01:10:00,468 --> 01:10:02,136
MEETINGS WITH BOB BROWN, THE

2444
01:10:02,136 --> 01:10:02,737
PROVOST, WHENEVER HE COULD.

2445
01:10:02,737 --> 01:10:04,005
IF HE WAS IN TOWN AND FREE,

2446
01:10:04,005 --> 01:10:04,905
WOULD HE COME TO THE COMMITTEE.

2447
01:10:04,905 --> 01:10:08,409
HE WAS JUST FASCINATED BY THE

2448
01:10:08,409 --> 01:10:10,478
PROBLEM, HE SAID ANYTHING I CAN

2449
01:10:10,478 --> 01:10:11,245
MEASURE, I'M GOING TO FIX, I

2450
01:10:11,245 --> 01:10:13,080
PROMISE YOU THAT, NANCY, BUT I

2451
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:14,982
DON'T KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THIS

2452
01:10:14,982 --> 01:10:15,716
UNCONSCIOUS BIAS.

2453
01:10:15,716 --> 01:10:17,218
AND I THINK THAT COMMENT IS

2454
01:10:17,218 --> 01:10:17,718
PROFOUND.

2455
01:10:17,718 --> 01:10:19,687
AND WE STILL DON'T.

2456
01:10:19,687 --> 01:10:21,088
BUT IF YOU ASK THE PSYCHOLOGIST

2457
01:10:21,088 --> 01:10:22,323
HOW DO YOU SOLVE IT, THEY'LL

2458
01:10:22,323 --> 01:10:24,291
TELL YOU, YOU CHANGE THE WORLD,

2459
01:10:24,291 --> 01:10:25,793
AND THE BIASES WILL CHANGE WITH

2460
01:10:25,793 --> 01:10:26,460
IT.

2461
01:10:26,460 --> 01:10:27,995
PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT THEY SEE.

2462
01:10:27,995 --> 01:10:30,264
IF THEY SEE A WOMAN PRESIDENT,

2463
01:10:30,264 --> 01:10:30,865
HAVEN'T THEY ALWAYS BEEN

2464
01:10:30,865 --> 01:10:31,165
PRESIDENT?

2465
01:10:31,165 --> 01:10:32,700
IT'S NOT SEEING THEM IN THOSE

2466
01:10:32,700 --> 01:10:34,135
ROLES THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEM,

2467
01:10:34,135 --> 01:10:35,136
RIGHT?

2468
01:10:35,136 --> 01:10:36,370
SO CHANGE THE WORLD.

2469
01:10:36,370 --> 01:10:37,972
SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO DO.

2470
01:10:37,972 --> 01:10:39,173
FINALLY, I'D SAY L.

2471
01:10:39,173 --> 01:10:43,010
OH TTI EBAYLAND, AGE 9 4-RBGS

2472
01:10:43,010 --> 01:10:44,245
WHERE DO YOU THINK WE ARE, WE

2473
01:10:44,245 --> 01:10:46,347
DID A SESSION WITH HER, SHE SAYS

2474
01:10:46,347 --> 01:10:47,448
WELL, WHAT THE M.I.T. REPORT

2475
01:10:47,448 --> 01:10:48,716
DID, IT PUT THE ISSUE ON THE

2476
01:10:48,716 --> 01:10:50,484
TABLE SO YOU COULD TALK ABOUT IT

2477
01:10:50,484 --> 01:10:52,687
OPENLY, AS WE ARE HERE.

2478
01:10:52,687 --> 01:10:54,188
WE TRIED TO SOLVE PROBLEMS SO IT

2479
01:10:54,188 --> 01:10:56,090
WOULD BE FAIR, WE'D COLLECT DATA

2480
01:10:56,090 --> 01:10:57,291
AND MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS FAIR,

2481
01:10:57,291 --> 01:10:59,060
WE'D MAKE SURE JOB SEARCHES WERE

2482
01:10:59,060 --> 01:11:00,695
FAIR, THAT THEY WERE NOT

2483
01:11:00,695 --> 01:11:02,096
DISCRIMINATING AGAINST PEOPLE.

2484
01:11:02,096 --> 01:11:04,732
BUT SHE SAID, AND THAT'S ALL

2485
01:11:04,732 --> 01:11:06,834
BECAUSE YOU CREATED SORT OF

2486
01:11:06,834 --> 01:11:08,135
FAIRNESS BY MEASURING ALL THE

2487
01:11:08,135 --> 01:11:09,470
TIME, BUT WHAT WOULD SCIENCE

2488
01:11:09,470 --> 01:11:12,306
LOOK LIKE, SHE SAYS, IF IT HAD

2489
01:11:12,306 --> 01:11:14,275
BEEN DESIGNED BY WOMEN, FOR

2490
01:11:14,275 --> 01:11:15,242
WOMEN?

2491
01:11:15,242 --> 01:11:16,310
WHAT WOULD THE WHOLE PROFESSION

2492
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:16,977
LOOK LIKE?

2493
01:11:16,977 --> 01:11:19,346
WHAT WOULD IT BE?

2494
01:11:19,346 --> 01:11:22,650
AND SO WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIT

2495
01:11:22,650 --> 01:11:26,053
PEOPLE WHO WERE LEADING ONE KIND

2496
01:11:26,053 --> 01:11:29,557
OF LIFE IN MY GENERATION INTO AN

2497
01:11:29,557 --> 01:11:32,526
EXISTING SYSTEM WHERE MEN

2498
01:11:32,526 --> 01:11:33,728
SUPPORTED THE FAMILY AND WOMEN

2499
01:11:33,728 --> 01:11:35,596
STAYED AT THIS LEVEL.

2500
01:11:35,596 --> 01:11:38,099
SO THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING

2501
01:11:38,099 --> 01:11:38,566
QUESTION.

2502
01:11:38,566 --> 01:11:39,633
AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT IN

2503
01:11:39,633 --> 01:11:40,601
THE RECENT COUPLE OF WEEKS

2504
01:11:40,601 --> 01:11:41,602
BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE

2505
01:11:41,602 --> 01:11:42,803
ELECTION, I THINK WHAT DO WOMEN

2506
01:11:42,803 --> 01:11:43,270
WANT?

2507
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:45,106
WHERE ARE WE?

2508
01:11:45,106 --> 01:11:46,607
HOW SHOULD IT LOOK?

2509
01:11:46,607 --> 01:11:48,075
WHY ISN'T THERE DAYCARE

2510
01:11:48,075 --> 01:11:50,911
EVERYWHERE, WHY ISN'T IT

2511
01:11:50,911 --> 01:11:51,779
AUTOMATIC THAT WOMEN CAN WORK

2512
01:11:51,779 --> 01:11:53,547
AND WHY ARE THEY STILL FIGHTING,

2513
01:11:53,547 --> 01:11:54,582
SO WHERE ARE WE?

2514
01:11:54,582 --> 01:11:57,151
>> YEAH.

2515
01:11:57,151 --> 01:12:01,622
SO DOES SOMEONE WANT TO LEAD

2516
01:12:01,622 --> 01:12:04,425
QUESTIONS?

2517
01:12:04,425 --> 01:12:05,493
>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

2518
01:12:05,493 --> 01:12:06,794
MY NAME IS JESSICA KEARNY.

2519
01:12:06,794 --> 01:12:09,029
I'M A POSTBAC AT NINDS,

2520
01:12:09,029 --> 01:12:10,197
CO-FOUNDER OF THE WOMEN AND

2521
01:12:10,197 --> 01:12:12,399
GENDER MINORITIES BOOK CLUB WITH

2522
01:12:12,399 --> 01:12:12,733
REMA.

2523
01:12:12,733 --> 01:12:14,034
I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU VERY MUCH

2524
01:12:14,034 --> 01:12:17,104
TO KATE AND NANCY FOR BEING HERE

2525
01:12:17,104 --> 01:12:17,438
TODAY.

2526
01:12:17,438 --> 01:12:18,739
WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP THE FLOOR

2527
01:12:18,739 --> 01:12:21,308
FOR QUESTIONS, BUT FIRST,

2528
01:12:21,308 --> 01:12:22,176
SELFISHLY I'M GOING TO ASK MY

2529
01:12:22,176 --> 01:12:22,710
OWN QUESTION.

2530
01:12:22,710 --> 01:12:23,811
>> YEAH, PLEASE.

2531
01:12:23,811 --> 01:12:27,348
>> SO I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT
THE

2532
01:12:27,348 --> 01:12:28,249
ONE WOMAN THAT DEPARTMENT SIGN

2533
01:12:28,249 --> 01:12:33,020
THE LETTER, NANCY.

2534
01:12:33,020 --> 01:12:34,021
WHY -- FIRST OF ALL, DID SHE

2535
01:12:34,021 --> 01:12:37,158
EVER CHANGE HER MIND AND

2536
01:12:37,158 --> 01:12:38,726
RECOGNIZE THAT SHE HAD BEEN

2537
01:12:38,726 --> 01:12:39,360
DISCRIMINATED AGAINST WHEN YOU

2538
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,228
CAME TO HER WITH THAT DATA,

2539
01:12:41,228 --> 01:12:44,231
TELLING HER THAT SHE HAD BEEN

2540
01:12:44,231 --> 01:12:46,867
WOEFULLY UNDERPAID?

2541
01:12:46,867 --> 01:12:48,269
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT SHE
EVER

2542
01:12:48,269 --> 01:12:49,770
KNEW SHE WAS THE MOST UNDERPAID.

2543
01:12:49,770 --> 01:12:51,138
>> THIS IS A TOUGH PROBLEM

2544
01:12:51,138 --> 01:12:52,540
BECAUSE WE TRIED NOT TO EVER

2545
01:12:52,540 --> 01:12:53,440
IDENTIFY PEOPLE AND IF YOU WERE

2546
01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:55,976
TO GO BACK -- SO I FEEL FUNNY TO

2547
01:12:55,976 --> 01:12:56,410
TALK ABOUT IT.

2548
01:12:56,410 --> 01:12:58,145
IN GENERAL, LET ME SAY, OF

2549
01:12:58,145 --> 01:12:59,814
PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET IT, LIKE

2550
01:12:59,814 --> 01:13:01,682
ME, I THINK AS I WAS ONE OF THEM

2551
01:13:01,682 --> 01:13:06,687
FOR SO LONG MYSELF, I HAVE TO

2552
01:13:06,687 --> 01:13:08,289
SAY, THE MOMENT WHEN YOU REALIZE

2553
01:13:08,289 --> 01:13:09,557
WHAT REALLY HAPPENED IS THE MOST

2554
01:13:09,557 --> 01:13:11,091
PAINFUL MOMENT OF THE WHOLE

2555
01:13:11,091 --> 01:13:11,725
THING.

2556
01:13:11,725 --> 01:13:15,663
I THINK THAT'S A DENIAL

2557
01:13:15,663 --> 01:13:16,463
COMPONENT TO IT.

2558
01:13:16,463 --> 01:13:17,331
AS LONG AS YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU

2559
01:13:17,331 --> 01:13:17,898
WANT TO DO.

2560
01:13:17,898 --> 01:13:22,837
I DIDN'T CARE.

2561
01:13:22,837 --> 01:13:26,073
I THINK SOME PEOPLE DON'T FEEL

2562
01:13:26,073 --> 01:13:29,376
THAT THEY ARE DISCRIMINATED

2563
01:13:29,376 --> 01:13:29,710
AGAINST.

2564
01:13:29,710 --> 01:13:30,778
EVEN WHEN THE DATA SHOW YOU THAT

2565
01:13:30,778 --> 01:13:31,478
THEY ARE.

2566
01:13:31,478 --> 01:13:32,580
IT'S JUST TOO HARD TO ACCEPT IT.

2567
01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:38,786
>> WHEN I INTERVIEWED HER,
SHE

2568
01:13:38,786 --> 01:13:39,787
SAID -- IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE

2569
01:13:39,787 --> 01:13:41,455
IT'S ALL IN EMAIL, I DIDN'T TALK

2570
01:13:41,455 --> 01:13:42,656
TO HER ON THE PHONE BUT IN

2571
01:13:42,656 --> 01:13:44,058
EMAILS SHE WOULD SAY, YES, I

2572
01:13:44,058 --> 01:13:45,593
PROBABLY DID HAVE LESS THAN THE

2573
01:13:45,593 --> 01:13:47,027
MEN, BUT SHE WAS RELUCTANT --

2574
01:13:47,027 --> 01:13:48,562
AND SHE WOULD EVEN SAY LIKE I

2575
01:13:48,562 --> 01:13:49,530
WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BUT

2576
01:13:49,530 --> 01:13:51,332
SHE WAS RELUCTANT TO SORT OF TAG

2577
01:13:51,332 --> 01:13:52,700
IT, I THINK PARTLY FOR THAT

2578
01:13:52,700 --> 01:13:53,601
REASON BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO

2579
01:13:53,601 --> 01:13:55,603
GET THE LABEL OF BEING SOMEONE

2580
01:13:55,603 --> 01:13:56,704
WHO COMPLAINED, BUT I ALSO

2581
01:13:56,704 --> 01:13:58,038
THINK -- AND THIS WAS TRUE FOR

2582
01:13:58,038 --> 01:13:58,939
NANCY, THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE

2583
01:13:58,939 --> 01:14:01,108
WHO WERE TELLING NANCY, THIS IS

2584
01:14:01,108 --> 01:14:02,209
SEX DISCRIMINATION, AND THERE

2585
01:14:02,209 --> 01:14:06,914
WAS THIS FEELING THAT IT HAD TO

2586
01:14:06,914 --> 01:14:08,382
BE OBVIOUS, IT HAD TO BE

2587
01:14:08,382 --> 01:14:09,149
INTENTIONAL AND IN SOME CASE IT

2588
01:14:09,149 --> 01:14:10,651
IS HAD TO INVOLVE SEX, THAT

2589
01:14:10,651 --> 01:14:12,653
SOMEONE HAD TO LIKE HIT ON YOU,

2590
01:14:12,653 --> 01:14:13,988
YOU REBUFFED THEM AND THEN THEY

2591
01:14:13,988 --> 01:14:14,955
DIDN'T GIVE YOU A JOB.

2592
01:14:14,955 --> 01:14:16,357
IT HAD TO BE THAT CLEAR-CUT.

2593
01:14:16,357 --> 01:14:18,325
SO I THINK FOR HER, SHE FELT

2594
01:14:18,325 --> 01:14:20,394
THAT THESE MEN AROUND HER HAD

2595
01:14:20,394 --> 01:14:22,062
JUST BEEN, YOU KNOW, ACTING THE

2596
01:14:22,062 --> 01:14:25,666
WAY THEY ACT, AND THEY HADN'T

2597
01:14:25,666 --> 01:14:27,868
INTENDED TO TREAT HER THAT WAY,

2598
01:14:27,868 --> 01:14:28,936
THEREFORE, SHE COULDN'T CALL IT

2599
01:14:28,936 --> 01:14:29,303
DISCRIMINATION.

2600
01:14:29,303 --> 01:14:30,905
I THINK ALL THESE YEARS LATER,

2601
01:14:30,905 --> 01:14:32,406
SHE IS NOT QUITE RESOLVED ON

2602
01:14:32,406 --> 01:14:33,274
THAT QUESTION.

2603
01:14:33,274 --> 01:14:34,108
>> SO THE PROBLEM IS THE

2604
01:14:34,108 --> 01:14:35,209
DEFINITION OF DISCRIMINATION

2605
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:35,442
ITSELF.

2606
01:14:35,442 --> 01:14:37,811
>> BUT I THINK THE REAL
PROBLEM

2607
01:14:37,811 --> 01:14:40,314
IS THAT AS A PSYCHOLOGISTS ALSO

2608
01:14:40,314 --> 01:14:42,650
TELL US, PEOPLE WHO ARE

2609
01:14:42,650 --> 01:14:45,052
DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, THEY

2610
01:14:45,052 --> 01:14:46,487
ABSORB THE SAME CULTURE SO THEY

2611
01:14:46,487 --> 01:14:47,621
REALLY FEEL THEY AREN'T GOOD

2612
01:14:47,621 --> 01:14:48,722
ENOUGH, SO THAT'S THE PROBLEM

2613
01:14:48,722 --> 01:14:48,956
REALLY.

2614
01:14:48,956 --> 01:14:51,091
AND THE WOMEN THEMSELVES BECOME

2615
01:14:51,091 --> 01:14:52,226
PART -- ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

2616
01:14:52,226 --> 01:14:55,062
THEY HAVE THE SAME VIEWS.

2617
01:14:55,062 --> 01:14:56,497
>> HELLO, DR. HOPKINS.

2618
01:14:56,497 --> 01:14:57,865
THIS IS FANTASTIC.

2619
01:14:57,865 --> 01:14:58,666
THANK YOU SO MUCH.

2620
01:14:58,666 --> 01:15:00,367
I DID A POSTDOC AT M.I.T. FOR A

2621
01:15:00,367 --> 01:15:01,835
BRIEF PERIOD, BUT I WAS ALSO A

2622
01:15:01,835 --> 01:15:03,771
NEW PROFESSOR WHEN YOU GAVE YOUR

2623
01:15:03,771 --> 01:15:05,039
2011 SPEECH THAT THEN WAS

2624
01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:06,373
EMAILED OUT AND RIPPLED

2625
01:15:06,373 --> 01:15:07,241
THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AND I WANT

2626
01:15:07,241 --> 01:15:08,475
TO THANK YOU FOR THAT ALSO.

2627
01:15:08,475 --> 01:15:11,645
SO EXCITED WI ABOUT THIS EVENT.

2628
01:15:11,645 --> 01:15:12,947
JUST ABOUT THE RE-THINKING

2629
01:15:12,947 --> 01:15:14,515
SCIENCE, THERE ACTUALLY IS AN

2630
01:15:14,515 --> 01:15:16,150
INTERESTING SHOW ON APPLE TV

2631
01:15:16,150 --> 01:15:18,252
CALLED FOR ALL MANKIND THAT NASA

2632
01:15:18,252 --> 01:15:19,687
HAD TO INTEGRATE AND BRING WOMEN

2633
01:15:19,687 --> 01:15:20,888
ON BOARD MUCH EARLIER AND IT

2634
01:15:20,888 --> 01:15:22,423
CHANGES THE WHOLE COURSE OF U.S.

2635
01:15:22,423 --> 01:15:24,458
HISTORY FOR THOSE THAT -- CHECK

2636
01:15:24,458 --> 01:15:24,892
IT OUT.

2637
01:15:24,892 --> 01:15:26,627
BUT I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU IF

2638
01:15:26,627 --> 01:15:27,795
YOU COULD TELL THIS GROUP TOO,

2639
01:15:27,795 --> 01:15:28,929
BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE THINK

2640
01:15:28,929 --> 01:15:30,931
THIS IS STILL FAR-OFF HISTORY,

2641
01:15:30,931 --> 01:15:32,099
AND EVEN SOME OF THE NAMES YOU

2642
01:15:32,099 --> 01:15:33,600
MENTIONED WERE THERE WHEN I WAS

2643
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:36,303
A POSTDOC THERE IN 2006, 2008,

2644
01:15:36,303 --> 01:15:38,072
BEFORE M.I.T. WENT TO A RACIAL

2645
01:15:38,072 --> 01:15:38,605
RECKONING.

2646
01:15:38,605 --> 01:15:39,974
SO I'M CURIOUS IF YOU COULD JUST

2647
01:15:39,974 --> 01:15:41,575
LET THE AUDIENCE HEAR AND THOSE

2648
01:15:41,575 --> 01:15:42,109
WATCHING ONLINE.

2649
01:15:42,109 --> 01:15:43,310
SOME OF THOSE YEARS OF SOME OF

2650
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:44,778
THE THINGS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

2651
01:15:44,778 --> 01:15:45,980
BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE MIGHT

2652
01:15:45,980 --> 01:15:47,514
THINK THIS IS IN THE 70s,

2653
01:15:47,514 --> 01:15:48,248
80s OR 90s.

2654
01:15:48,248 --> 01:15:49,483
IF YOU COULD GIVE SOME YEARS AND

2655
01:15:49,483 --> 01:15:50,484
DATES TO THESE PEOPLE ABOUT SOME

2656
01:15:50,484 --> 01:15:52,586
OF YOUR STORIES TO SEE THAT IT'S

2657
01:15:52,586 --> 01:15:53,687
RECENT HISTORY.

2658
01:15:53,687 --> 01:15:56,390
AND YOUR WORK IS VERY IMPORTANT.

2659
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:56,724
>> THANK YOU.

2660
01:15:56,724 --> 01:15:57,291
THANK YOU.

2661
01:15:57,291 --> 01:16:02,629
THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

2662
01:16:02,629 --> 01:16:05,933
IT MOST REREMINDS ME, M.I.T. WAS

2663
01:16:05,933 --> 01:16:07,701
FIXING ITSELF, IT REALLY WAS.

2664
01:16:07,701 --> 01:16:10,537
THE BIOTECH INDUSTRY WAS GROWING

2665
01:16:10,537 --> 01:16:11,839
UP AROUND US, AND WHEN YOU WENT

2666
01:16:11,839 --> 01:16:13,640
AND LOOKED AT THE DATA FOR THAT,

2667
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:17,244
IT HADN'T CHANGED FROM THE

2668
01:16:17,244 --> 01:16:17,778
1950s.

2669
01:16:17,778 --> 01:16:19,146
IT HADN'T CHANGED FROM THE TIME

2670
01:16:19,146 --> 01:16:20,981
IT STARTED.

2671
01:16:20,981 --> 01:16:22,850
I MEAN, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY

2672
01:16:22,850 --> 01:16:23,183
SHOCKING.

2673
01:16:23,183 --> 01:16:24,518
SO THE MEN WHO WERE THE FACULTY,

2674
01:16:24,518 --> 01:16:25,719
WHO WERE ON THE FACULTY AT

2675
01:16:25,719 --> 01:16:27,388
M.I.T. WHO WERE OUT FOUNDING

2676
01:16:27,388 --> 01:16:30,991
THESE BIOTECH COMPANIES THAT

2677
01:16:30,991 --> 01:16:32,860
HAVE ADVISORY BOARDS AND --

2678
01:16:32,860 --> 01:16:34,628
BOARDS AND SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY

2679
01:16:34,628 --> 01:16:38,032
BOARDS, AND CO-FOUNDERS HAD

2680
01:16:38,032 --> 01:16:39,299
COMPLETELY EXCLUDED WOMEN.

2681
01:16:39,299 --> 01:16:40,367
SO THEY'RE SITTING IN THERE

2682
01:16:40,367 --> 01:16:42,136
TEACHING CLASSES WITH 60, 70%

2683
01:16:42,136 --> 01:16:44,805
WOMEN STUDENTS, AND THEY'RE

2684
01:16:44,805 --> 01:16:46,273
WORKING WITH ONLY MEN IN THE

2685
01:16:46,273 --> 01:16:48,642
COMPANIES THEY FOUNDED.

2686
01:16:48,642 --> 01:16:51,912
AND SO WAS IT FIVE YEARS AGO,

2687
01:16:51,912 --> 01:16:55,649
SUSAN HARTFIELD, WHO HAD BEEN

2688
01:16:55,649 --> 01:16:58,519
PRESIDENT OF THE M.I.T. AND

2689
01:16:58,519 --> 01:17:00,254
ANOTHER TOOK THIS ON AND FOUNDED

2690
01:17:00,254 --> 01:17:04,358
A BOSTON BIOTECH GROUP AND

2691
01:17:04,358 --> 01:17:05,993
BROUGHT IN VENTURE CAPITALISTS

2692
01:17:05,993 --> 01:17:08,762
AND SO FORTH, AND I HAD THE

2693
01:17:08,762 --> 01:17:09,797
WOMEN COME AND TELL THEIR

2694
01:17:09,797 --> 01:17:10,130
STORIES.

2695
01:17:10,130 --> 01:17:11,632
THEY WERE TOLD WHEN YOU GO TO

2696
01:17:11,632 --> 01:17:13,467
PITCH IN FRONT OF A VENTURE

2697
01:17:13,467 --> 01:17:15,102
CAPITALIST, DO NOT BRING ANOTHER

2698
01:17:15,102 --> 01:17:17,071
WOMAN WITH YOU BECAUSE THEY

2699
01:17:17,071 --> 01:17:18,205
CAN'T DEAL WITH TWO WOMEN IN THE

2700
01:17:18,205 --> 01:17:19,306
ROOM AT THE SAME TIME.

2701
01:17:19,306 --> 01:17:20,307
[LAUGHTER ?CHT THAT'S WHERE WE

2702
01:17:20,307 --> 01:17:20,707
ARE.

2703
01:17:20,707 --> 01:17:21,909
NOW WE'RE TALKING -- WE'RE

2704
01:17:21,909 --> 01:17:22,643
TALKING NOW.

2705
01:17:22,643 --> 01:17:24,244
WE'RE NOT TALKING ANCIENT

2706
01:17:24,244 --> 01:17:24,478
HISTORY.

2707
01:17:24,478 --> 01:17:27,147
WE'RE TALKING NOW.

2708
01:17:27,147 --> 01:17:28,816
>> BUT JUST TO PUT SOME
DATES ON

2709
01:17:28,816 --> 01:17:30,317
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, SO

2710
01:17:30,317 --> 01:17:33,287
NANCY GETS HER JOB AT M.I.T. IN

2711
01:17:33,287 --> 01:17:34,655
1973, WHICH IS THE YEAR THAT --

2712
01:17:34,655 --> 01:17:37,124
I GUESS EARLY ON IN THE FEDERAL

2713
01:17:37,124 --> 01:17:38,225
GOVERNMENT, WHEN THE FEDERAL

2714
01:17:38,225 --> 01:17:40,160
GOVERNMENT SAYS TO THE

2715
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,296
UNIVERSITIES, YOU HAVE TO HIRE

2716
01:17:42,296 --> 01:17:43,864
MORE WOMEN OR WE'LL TAKE WAY

2717
01:17:43,864 --> 01:17:46,567
YOUR FUNDING, BUT WHEN THEY

2718
01:17:46,567 --> 01:17:49,970
DISCOVER THERE ARE -- SO 1994 IS

2719
01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:51,638
WHEN THEY DISCOVER THAT THERE

2720
01:17:51,638 --> 01:17:52,239
ARE 15 TENURED WOMEN IN THE

2721
01:17:52,239 --> 01:17:56,043
SCHOOL OF SCIENCE AND 197 MEN.

2722
01:17:56,043 --> 01:17:57,010
1994.

2723
01:17:57,010 --> 01:17:58,045
SO 1999 IS WHEN THIS REPORT

2724
01:17:58,045 --> 01:18:01,748
COMES OUT, I GUESS IT WAS 2001

2725
01:18:01,748 --> 01:18:04,251
THAT SUSAN BECOMES THE FIRST

2726
01:18:04,251 --> 01:18:05,252
FEMALE PRESIDENT OF M.I.T.

2727
01:18:05,252 --> 01:18:07,855
2002, THERE ARE IMOWN -- BY THAT

2728
01:18:07,855 --> 01:18:09,623
POINT I THINK THERE ARE THREE

2729
01:18:09,623 --> 01:18:10,791
FEMALE PRESIDENTS IN THE IVY

2730
01:18:10,791 --> 01:18:11,024
LEAGUE.

2731
01:18:11,024 --> 01:18:12,159
BUT YEAH, A LOT OF THIS IS

2732
01:18:12,159 --> 01:18:13,393
REALLY RECENT.

2733
01:18:13,393 --> 01:18:17,030
2010 WAS WHEN M.I.T., USING

2734
01:18:17,030 --> 01:18:18,332
NANCY'S REPORT ON WOMEN AS A

2735
01:18:18,332 --> 01:18:23,070
MODEL, DID THE HAMMIT REPORT ON

2736
01:18:23,070 --> 01:18:24,271
UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITIES, BUT

2737
01:18:24,271 --> 01:18:27,441
STILL, AGAIN, I THINK -- 2% OF

2738
01:18:27,441 --> 01:18:28,308
SCIENTISTS ARE WOMEN OF COLOR?

2739
01:18:28,308 --> 01:18:30,244
I MEAN -- OR MAYBE IT'S BLACK

2740
01:18:30,244 --> 01:18:31,311
WOMEN EXCLUSIVELY, BUT THE

2741
01:18:31,311 --> 01:18:32,746
NUMBERS ARE SHOCKINGLY LOW.

2742
01:18:32,746 --> 01:18:36,917
AND I REALLY DO THINK IT'S

2743
01:18:36,917 --> 01:18:39,553
PEOPLE'S PERCEPTION OF WHAT IS

2744
01:18:39,553 --> 01:18:42,890
ALLOWED OR --

2745
01:18:42,890 --> 01:18:46,360
>> I THINK IT'S A HARD
PROBLEM,

2746
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:47,461
THEY REALLY ARE.

2747
01:18:47,461 --> 01:18:49,997
IF YOU TAKE WOMEN OF ANY COLOR,

2748
01:18:49,997 --> 01:18:55,335
WHAT PERCENT, IT'S ABOUT 21

2749
01:18:55,335 --> 01:18:57,838
OR-2%, WOMEN IN FACULTY IN

2750
01:18:57,838 --> 01:18:58,906
SCIENCE AT M.I.T.

2751
01:18:58,906 --> 01:19:00,407
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT HOW HIGH

2752
01:19:00,407 --> 01:19:02,509
COULD IT GET, IF YOU LOOK AT THE

2753
01:19:02,509 --> 01:19:03,477
PIPELINES COMING IN, IT NEVER

2754
01:19:03,477 --> 01:19:04,912
GOING TO BE 50%, NEVER.

2755
01:19:04,912 --> 01:19:07,714
I MEAN, THERE ARE CERTAIN FIELDS

2756
01:19:07,714 --> 01:19:08,815
THAT JUST DON'T HAVE WOMEN IN

2757
01:19:08,815 --> 01:19:09,116
THEM.

2758
01:19:09,116 --> 01:19:10,551
SO NOW YOU'RE GOING WAY BACK,

2759
01:19:10,551 --> 01:19:11,718
YOU'RE GOING WAY BACK.

2760
01:19:11,718 --> 01:19:12,986
WHERE DO WOMEN DROP OUT?

2761
01:19:12,986 --> 01:19:14,421
IF YOU LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL

2762
01:19:14,421 --> 01:19:15,589
FIELDS, THEY DROP OUT AT

2763
01:19:15,589 --> 01:19:16,590
DIFFERENT POINTS FROM DIFFERENT

2764
01:19:16,590 --> 01:19:18,592
FIELDS.

2765
01:19:18,592 --> 01:19:23,096
IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.

2766
01:19:23,096 --> 01:19:24,198
>> HI.

2767
01:19:24,198 --> 01:19:25,299
I'M ROSIE KAPLAN.

2768
01:19:25,299 --> 01:19:26,934
I'M A SENIOR INVESTIGATOR IN THE

2769
01:19:26,934 --> 01:19:28,168
PEDIATRIC ONCOLOGY BRANCH.

2770
01:19:28,168 --> 01:19:30,837
I'M A MOM OF 6 KIDS.

2771
01:19:30,837 --> 01:19:32,739
AND I RUN A LAB AND I TRY TO DO

2772
01:19:32,739 --> 01:19:34,074
CLINICAL TRIALS TOO.

2773
01:19:34,074 --> 01:19:34,808
AND I -- THANK YOU.

2774
01:19:34,808 --> 01:19:36,076
I JUST WANT TO SAY THANK YOU SO,

2775
01:19:36,076 --> 01:19:36,410
SO MUCH.

2776
01:19:36,410 --> 01:19:37,511
THANK YOU.

2777
01:19:37,511 --> 01:19:39,713
BECAUSE I THINK SEEING IS

2778
01:19:39,713 --> 01:19:40,380
BELIEVING.

2779
01:19:40,380 --> 01:19:42,449
I WAKE UP PRETTY MUCH I'D SAY

2780
01:19:42,449 --> 01:19:45,319
90% OF MY MORNINGS THINKING

2781
01:19:45,319 --> 01:19:47,921
ABOUT THAT I WANT TO EFFECT

2782
01:19:47,921 --> 01:19:50,791
CHANGE, THAT I STILL FEEL LIKE

2783
01:19:50,791 --> 01:19:52,125
SOCIETY IS NOT SET UP FOR

2784
01:19:52,125 --> 01:19:53,660
WORKING MOMS IN A WAY THAT'S

2785
01:19:53,660 --> 01:19:56,530
REALLY TENABLE FOR MOST PEOPLE.

2786
01:19:56,530 --> 01:19:59,967
I'M NEVER SURPRISED FOR MY

2787
01:19:59,967 --> 01:20:02,236
FEMALE TRAINEES, MINORITY

2788
01:20:02,236 --> 01:20:02,869
TRAINEES ARE STRESSED ABOUT HOW

2789
01:20:02,869 --> 01:20:03,937
THEY'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT

2790
01:20:03,937 --> 01:20:04,471
NEXT LEVEL.

2791
01:20:04,471 --> 01:20:06,640
I JUST -- I HEAR IT SO MUCH AND

2792
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:08,075
I BELIEVE IT.

2793
01:20:08,075 --> 01:20:12,980
BUT MY PROBLEM IS, I HATE THE

2794
01:20:12,980 --> 01:20:15,115
IDEA THAT I DON'T HAVE A PLAN TO

2795
01:20:15,115 --> 01:20:16,650
FIX IT, SO, THEREFORE, I SAY

2796
01:20:16,650 --> 01:20:20,354
NOTHING ABOUT IT, BECAUSE I FEEL

2797
01:20:20,354 --> 01:20:21,922
ALL THESE YEARS, AND THROUGH

2798
01:20:21,922 --> 01:20:23,690
CHILD CARE, THROUGH WORKING, I

2799
01:20:23,690 --> 01:20:25,559
MEAN, MY SON IS 23.

2800
01:20:25,559 --> 01:20:28,061
I'VE BEEN 24 YEARS BETWEEN BEING

2801
01:20:28,061 --> 01:20:29,596
PREGNANT AND NOW.

2802
01:20:29,596 --> 01:20:32,132
AND I HAVE NO BETTER SOLUTION.

2803
01:20:32,132 --> 01:20:34,701
I THINK ABOUT SOLUTIONS BUT I

2804
01:20:34,701 --> 01:20:35,902
CAN'T ACTUALIZE THEM IN WAYS

2805
01:20:35,902 --> 01:20:38,505
THAT ARE MEANINGFUL AND DOES IT

2806
01:20:38,505 --> 01:20:39,873
MATTER TO -- IS IT IMPORTANT TO

2807
01:20:39,873 --> 01:20:40,807
POINT IT OUT OR SPEAK UP, IS

2808
01:20:40,807 --> 01:20:42,376
THAT SUFFICIENT, OR DO I REALLY

2809
01:20:42,376 --> 01:20:43,810
NEED TO COME WITH A PLAN BECAUSE

2810
01:20:43,810 --> 01:20:45,912
I FEEL REALLY INADEQUATE WITH

2811
01:20:45,912 --> 01:20:50,651
THE PLAN A LOT OF THE TIME.

2812
01:20:50,651 --> 01:20:53,587
[APPLAUSE]

2813
01:20:53,587 --> 01:20:55,222
>> HUGE APPLAUSE TO YOU,
FIRST

2814
01:20:55,222 --> 01:20:56,456
OF ALL, FOR DOING THIS.

2815
01:20:56,456 --> 01:20:58,659
BUT I THINK WHY IS -- WELL,

2816
01:20:58,659 --> 01:20:59,826
THAT'S A LOT TO TAKE ON

2817
01:20:59,826 --> 01:21:01,428
YOURSELF.

2818
01:21:01,428 --> 01:21:03,830
>> WELL, I'M NOT --
CLEARLY I'M

2819
01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:04,798
NOT.

2820
01:21:04,798 --> 01:21:06,466
>> WELL, BUT I THINK THIS
IS

2821
01:21:06,466 --> 01:21:07,901
PART OF THE -- AND I WANT NANCY

2822
01:21:07,901 --> 01:21:09,236
TO SPEAK ON THIS, BUT I WOULD

2823
01:21:09,236 --> 01:21:10,604
SAY JUST HAVING TALKED TO A LOT

2824
01:21:10,604 --> 01:21:12,239
OF WOMEN EITHER REPORTING THE

2825
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:13,840
BOOK OR SPEAKING ABOUT THE BOOK,

2826
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,409
I THINK THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR A

2827
01:21:15,409 --> 01:21:16,810
LOT OF WOMEN.

2828
01:21:16,810 --> 01:21:19,046
AND HAVING HAD MY OWN CAREER, AS

2829
01:21:19,046 --> 01:21:20,447
I OFTEN SAY, WHEN I CAME BACK TO

2830
01:21:20,447 --> 01:21:22,349
WRITE THIS BOOK, I WAS THE AGE

2831
01:21:22,349 --> 01:21:24,017
THAT NANCY WAS WHEN SHE STARTED

2832
01:21:24,017 --> 01:21:24,518
MEASURING THOSE FLOORS.

2833
01:21:24,518 --> 01:21:26,219
I HAD A VERY DIFFERENT

2834
01:21:26,219 --> 01:21:28,288
PERSPECTIVE ON THINGS WHEN I WAS

2835
01:21:28,288 --> 01:21:30,357
A 30-YEAR-OLD WRITING THIS STORY

2836
01:21:30,357 --> 01:21:31,058
FOR "THE BOSTON GLOBE" BECAUSE I

2837
01:21:31,058 --> 01:21:31,558
HAD SEEN MORE.

2838
01:21:31,558 --> 01:21:32,926
I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS

2839
01:21:32,926 --> 01:21:34,428
THAT, YES, WE ARE SO STRESSED,

2840
01:21:34,428 --> 01:21:35,529
WE ARE THINKING THAT WE ARE

2841
01:21:35,529 --> 01:21:37,664
ALONE DOING THIS, WE'RE THINKING

2842
01:21:37,664 --> 01:21:39,633
THAT IT'S UP TO US TO SOLVE.

2843
01:21:39,633 --> 01:21:40,834
IT'S VERY HARD TO TALK ABOUT

2844
01:21:40,834 --> 01:21:44,371
BECAUSE YOU THINK -- YOU'RE SO

2845
01:21:44,371 --> 01:21:45,839
WORRIED ABOUT BEING TAGGED AT

2846
01:21:45,839 --> 01:21:46,440
"THE MOM."

2847
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:48,408
FOR ME, I WOULD NEVER PUT  MY

2848
01:21:48,408 --> 01:21:50,610
KIDS' ARTWORK, I WOULDN'T PUT UP

2849
01:21:50,610 --> 01:21:53,580
PICTURES OF MY KIDS, MEANWHILE

2850
01:21:53,580 --> 01:21:56,917
MY MALE COLLEAGUES, THEIR

2851
01:21:56,917 --> 01:21:59,052
CUBICLES WERE FESTOONED WITH

2852
01:21:59,052 --> 01:22:02,189
PICTURES OF THEIR KIDS, GREAT

2853
01:22:02,189 --> 01:22:02,556
DAD.

2854
01:22:02,556 --> 01:22:03,724
I THOUGHT THEY WOULD THINK LESS

2855
01:22:03,724 --> 01:22:04,157
OF ME.

2856
01:22:04,157 --> 01:22:05,292
THE ONE THAT REALLY GET ME AND

2857
01:22:05,292 --> 01:22:07,060
WHEN I TELL THE STORY, I HAVE

2858
01:22:07,060 --> 01:22:08,862
COLLEAGUES FROM WORK WHO COME TO

2859
01:22:08,862 --> 01:22:10,130
ME AND WHISPER, I'M SO GLAD YOU

2860
01:22:10,130 --> 01:22:11,898
SAID THAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT

2861
01:22:11,898 --> 01:22:12,165
HAPPENED.

2862
01:22:12,165 --> 01:22:13,834
BUT PEOPLE WOULD SAY TO ME, WHEN

2863
01:22:13,834 --> 01:22:15,335
I WOULD SAY WELL, THIS IS

2864
01:22:15,335 --> 01:22:17,971
HAPPENING TO ME, I DON'T THINK I

2865
01:22:17,971 --> 01:22:20,073
WAS -- I DON'T SEEM TO BE

2866
01:22:20,073 --> 01:22:21,875
GETTING TRACTION IN THIS AREA OF

2867
01:22:21,875 --> 01:22:23,076
MY STORY, PEOPLE WOULD SAY I

2868
01:22:23,076 --> 01:22:24,277
THOUGHT YOU COULDN'T TRAVEL,

2869
01:22:24,277 --> 01:22:25,812
BECAUSE I HAD KIDS, OR I THOUGHT

2870
01:22:25,812 --> 01:22:26,947
YOU WOULDN'T WANT THAT JOB.

2871
01:22:26,947 --> 01:22:28,648
AND I THINK SO OFTEN, IT'S THAT

2872
01:22:28,648 --> 01:22:29,216
PEOPLE DON'T ASK.

2873
01:22:29,216 --> 01:22:30,650
THEY MAKE THESE ASSUMPTIONS

2874
01:22:30,650 --> 01:22:32,452
ABOUT WHAT WOMEN CAN AND CAN'T

2875
01:22:32,452 --> 01:22:33,854
DO, AND SO PART OF IT IS THAT WE

2876
01:22:33,854 --> 01:22:35,622
HAVE TO ALLOW WOMEN TO SAY WHAT

2877
01:22:35,622 --> 01:22:36,323
THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO.

2878
01:22:36,323 --> 01:22:38,425
OF COURSE WE ALSO HAVE TO --

2879
01:22:38,425 --> 01:22:39,359
HELPING WITH DAYCARE WOULD BE

2880
01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:40,660
GREAT.

2881
01:22:40,660 --> 01:22:42,396
NANCY TALKS ABOUT POLYBUNTING,

2882
01:22:42,396 --> 01:22:46,099
THE PRESIDENT OF RADCLIFFE WHEN

2883
01:22:46,099 --> 01:22:47,868
SHE WAS THERE, SHE HAD FOUR

2884
01:22:47,868 --> 01:22:50,470
KIDS, A MICRO BIOLOGIST.

2885
01:22:50,470 --> 01:22:51,371
SHE THOUGHT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE

2886
01:22:51,371 --> 01:22:52,973
A CAREER AND FAMILY BUT GAVE

2887
01:22:52,973 --> 01:22:53,807
THEM NO INDICATION OF HOW THEY

2888
01:22:53,807 --> 01:22:54,808
WERE SUPPOSED TO DO THIS.

2889
01:22:54,808 --> 01:22:55,976
WHEN YOU LOOK BACK, ONE OF THE

2890
01:22:55,976 --> 01:22:57,244
MOST STUNNING THINGS IN

2891
01:22:57,244 --> 01:22:58,178
REPORTING THIS BOOK WAS THERE

2892
01:22:58,178 --> 01:23:02,282
WAS A REPORT ON THE NATIONAL --

2893
01:23:02,282 --> 01:23:03,116
PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S COMMISSION

2894
01:23:03,116 --> 01:23:04,284
ON THE STATUS OF WOMEN.

2895
01:23:04,284 --> 01:23:05,619
IT WAS A NATIONAL BEST SELLER.

2896
01:23:05,619 --> 01:23:07,387
IT WAS LIKE THE 9/11 REPORT OF

2897
01:23:07,387 --> 01:23:07,954
ITS TIME.

2898
01:23:07,954 --> 01:23:08,789
EVERYBODY BOUGHT THAT BOOK.

2899
01:23:08,789 --> 01:23:10,023
IT WAS TALKING ABOUT THE NEED

2900
01:23:10,023 --> 01:23:12,559
FOR UNIVERSAL DAYCARE, ALL THESE

2901
01:23:12,559 --> 01:23:14,094
PROPOSALS.

2902
01:23:14,094 --> 01:23:15,629
MATERNITY LEAVE, WE DIDN'T SEE

2903
01:23:15,629 --> 01:23:16,763
THAT FOR 30 YEARS, WE'RE STILL

2904
01:23:16,763 --> 01:23:17,431
TALKING ABOUT DAYCARE.

2905
01:23:17,431 --> 01:23:20,066
THAT WAS 1963, WE WERE

2906
01:23:20,066 --> 01:23:20,867
IDENTIFYING THE PROBLEM.

2907
01:23:20,867 --> 01:23:24,004
HERE WE ARE 2024, I MEAN,

2908
01:23:24,004 --> 01:23:25,505
WHAT'S -- LIKE WHY CAN'T WE FIX

2909
01:23:25,505 --> 01:23:25,705
THIS?

2910
01:23:25,705 --> 01:23:26,973
BUT I THINK PARTLY IT'S THAT WE

2911
01:23:26,973 --> 01:23:27,674
CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT.

2912
01:23:27,674 --> 01:23:28,575
I DON'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE

2913
01:23:28,575 --> 01:23:29,743
SUPPOSED TO RUN AROUND TALKING

2914
01:23:29,743 --> 01:23:31,144
ABOUT IT, BUT I WILL SAY,

2915
01:23:31,144 --> 01:23:31,912
OFTENTIMES AT ABOUT THIS POINT

2916
01:23:31,912 --> 01:23:32,979
IN THE CONVERSATION, I SAY TO

2917
01:23:32,979 --> 01:23:34,514
THE AUDIENCE, I HATE TALKING

2918
01:23:34,514 --> 01:23:36,316
ABOUT THIS STUFF BECAUSE I

2919
01:23:36,316 --> 01:23:37,317
ALWAYS THINK -- AND SOMETIMES I

2920
01:23:37,317 --> 01:23:39,219
SEE IT IN PEOPLE'S EYES, THEY'RE

2921
01:23:39,219 --> 01:23:40,787
THINKING OH, WELL, I BET THERE'S

2922
01:23:40,787 --> 01:23:45,192
ANOTHER REASON ARENA TO EXPLAINI

2923
01:23:45,192 --> 01:23:46,293
BET SHE'S REALLY NOT GOOD

2924
01:23:46,293 --> 01:23:46,726
ENOUGH.

2925
01:23:46,726 --> 01:23:48,328
I THINK THAT IS THE NATURAL

2926
01:23:48,328 --> 01:23:49,396
INSTINCT, THE DEFAULT POSITION

2927
01:23:49,396 --> 01:23:50,163
FOR ALL OF US.

2928
01:23:50,163 --> 01:23:51,064
CERTAINLY WAS FOR NANCY.

2929
01:23:51,064 --> 01:23:52,332
>> I THINK IT'S
FASCINATING.

2930
01:23:52,332 --> 01:23:56,002
AS I SAY, I THINK THE THING

2931
01:23:56,002 --> 01:23:58,271
ABOUT THE UNCONSCIOUS BIAS, THE

2932
01:23:58,271 --> 01:24:00,273
DISCRIMINATION THAT PEOPLE WERE

2933
01:24:00,273 --> 01:24:01,241
EXPERIENCING WAS NOT ALLOWED TO

2934
01:24:01,241 --> 01:24:03,276
BE SPOKEN ABOUT BECAUSE OF THE

2935
01:24:03,276 --> 01:24:03,677
MERITOCRACY IDEA.

2936
01:24:03,677 --> 01:24:04,811
IF YOU WERE REALLY GOOD ENOUGH,

2937
01:24:04,811 --> 01:24:06,146
THIS WOULDN'T BE BOTHERING YOU.

2938
01:24:06,146 --> 01:24:07,247
SO THAT SILENCED PEOPLE ON THAT

2939
01:24:07,247 --> 01:24:07,414
ONE.

2940
01:24:07,414 --> 01:24:08,348
AND I THINK THIS IS VERY

2941
01:24:08,348 --> 01:24:08,682
SIMILAR.

2942
01:24:08,682 --> 01:24:10,383
I HADN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT

2943
01:24:10,383 --> 01:24:11,618
IT, THE WAY YOU PUT IT WAS VERY

2944
01:24:11,618 --> 01:24:12,352
HELPFUL.

2945
01:24:12,352 --> 01:24:13,653
I THINK, YES, WHERE ARE THE

2946
01:24:13,653 --> 01:24:16,122
WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY?

2947
01:24:16,122 --> 01:24:17,090
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

2948
01:24:17,090 --> 01:24:19,059
YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THIS RECENT

2949
01:24:19,059 --> 01:24:20,193
ELECTION, WHY ARE WOMEN NOT

2950
01:24:20,193 --> 01:24:21,862
SUPPORTING OTHER WOMEN?

2951
01:24:21,862 --> 01:24:22,629
I DON'T GET IT.

2952
01:24:22,629 --> 01:24:23,930
I MEAN, IS THERE SOME FENCE IN

2953
01:24:23,930 --> 01:24:25,632
WHICH THE GROUP IS NOT A GROUP?

2954
01:24:25,632 --> 01:24:27,501
WE DON'T HAVE A COMMON PROBLEM,

2955
01:24:27,501 --> 01:24:28,235
WHAT'S GOING ON?

2956
01:24:28,235 --> 01:24:29,436
I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

2957
01:24:29,436 --> 01:24:31,538
I'M ASKING YOU.

2958
01:24:31,538 --> 01:24:33,673
I FEEL I'M TOO OLD TO SOLVE IT.

2959
01:24:33,673 --> 01:24:38,578
YOU'RE TO BUSY TO SOLVE IT.

2960
01:24:38,578 --> 01:24:40,580
[LAUGHTER]

2961
01:24:40,580 --> 01:24:41,982
>> WHERE IS THE SOLUTION?

2962
01:24:41,982 --> 01:24:42,315
>> THANK YOU.

2963
01:24:42,315 --> 01:24:43,984
>> THANK YOU.

2964
01:24:43,984 --> 01:24:45,185
>> I THINK PEOPLE DO --
WOMEN,

2965
01:24:45,185 --> 01:24:46,853
TOO, FEEL VERY -- YOU KNOW, YOU

2966
01:24:46,853 --> 01:24:47,554
HEAR BOTH SIDES OF IT ALL THE

2967
01:24:47,554 --> 01:24:48,054
TIME.

2968
01:24:48,054 --> 01:24:49,089
LIKE, WOW, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU

2969
01:24:49,089 --> 01:24:49,823
DO THAT JOB.

2970
01:24:49,823 --> 01:24:51,525
BUT ALMOST LIKE, HOW DO YOU DO

2971
01:24:51,525 --> 01:24:52,392
THAT JOB?

2972
01:24:52,392 --> 01:24:53,827
LIKE, DO YOU DO THAT JOB?

2973
01:24:53,827 --> 01:24:55,795
ARE YOU REALLY DOING THAT JOB?

2974
01:24:55,795 --> 01:24:58,398
AND THAT'S ALSO LOTS OF

2975
01:24:58,398 --> 01:24:59,232
IMPLICATIONS IN THAT.

2976
01:24:59,232 --> 01:25:00,200
AND ALSO YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING

2977
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:00,867
THAT JOB.

2978
01:25:00,867 --> 01:25:01,768
I'VE HEARD IT A LOT.

2979
01:25:01,768 --> 01:25:02,602
I SHOULD BE HOME.

2980
01:25:02,602 --> 01:25:03,670
I HAD THESE CHILDREN, I SHOULD

2981
01:25:03,670 --> 01:25:04,571
BE WITH THEM.

2982
01:25:04,571 --> 01:25:07,340
THEY SHOULD NOT BE OFF IN SOME

2983
01:25:07,340 --> 01:25:10,744
DAYCARE OR AFTERCARE OR -- EVEN

2984
01:25:10,744 --> 01:25:12,579
WORSE, LIKE HOME AND MANAGING

2985
01:25:12,579 --> 01:25:14,180
THEIR INDEPENDENT LIVES AT 10 OR

2986
01:25:14,180 --> 01:25:14,814
WHATEVER, LIKE, THAT'S THE

2987
01:25:14,814 --> 01:25:15,916
WORST.

2988
01:25:15,916 --> 01:25:17,784
THEN I'M CLEARLY IN THE WORST.

2989
01:25:17,784 --> 01:25:19,986
I HEAR IT.

2990
01:25:19,986 --> 01:25:21,655
>> I THINK WE HAVE TIME
FOR ONE

2991
01:25:21,655 --> 01:25:22,489
OR TWO MORE QUESTIONS.

2992
01:25:22,489 --> 01:25:24,124
>> LET'S DO THE PEOPLE --

2993
01:25:24,124 --> 01:25:24,591
>> YES.

2994
01:25:24,591 --> 01:25:25,859
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
THIS.

2995
01:25:25,859 --> 01:25:26,927
I HAVE A QUICK COMMENT AND A

2996
01:25:26,927 --> 01:25:27,928
QUESTION.

2997
01:25:27,928 --> 01:25:30,230
THE COMMENT IS SORT OF ON THE

2998
01:25:30,230 --> 01:25:32,599
HISTORY TOPIC, LIKE, AS YOU WERE

2999
01:25:32,599 --> 01:25:36,536
SORT OF TALKING ABOUT THE -- I

3000
01:25:36,536 --> 01:25:37,571
KEPT THINKING, IT WAS ONLY IN

3001
01:25:37,571 --> 01:25:40,574
THE EARLY 70s THAT JULIE

3002
01:25:40,574 --> 01:25:41,508
RICHARDSON IS THE CASE THAT

3003
01:25:41,508 --> 01:25:43,076
FORCED NIH TO PUT WOMEN ON GRANT

3004
01:25:43,076 --> 01:25:44,144
REVIEW PANELS.

3005
01:25:44,144 --> 01:25:46,046
AND LIKE, I ONLY CAME ACROSS

3006
01:25:46,046 --> 01:25:51,718
THIS CASE RECENTLY, AND SHE IS

3007
01:25:51,718 --> 01:25:55,355
THE PREAFS GENER PREVIOUS GENERF

3008
01:25:55,355 --> 01:25:57,557
ACTIVISTS AND THAT GENERATION IS

3009
01:25:57,557 --> 01:25:59,426
JUST NOT TAUGHT AT ALL, AND WE

3010
01:25:59,426 --> 01:26:00,727
ARE FOR GETTING HOW RECENT THAT

3011
01:26:00,727 --> 01:26:00,894
IS.

3012
01:26:00,894 --> 01:26:01,895
THAT WAS YOUR FIRST GRANT.

3013
01:26:01,895 --> 01:26:03,630
THERE WERE NO WOMEN ON THOSE

3014
01:26:03,630 --> 01:26:04,397
PANELS.

3015
01:26:04,397 --> 01:26:06,066
AND I FEEL LIKE WE DO NEED TO

3016
01:26:06,066 --> 01:26:07,601
KNOW THAT HISTORY SO MUCH MORE.

3017
01:26:07,601 --> 01:26:09,235
AND AS FAR AS MY QUESTION, WE

3018
01:26:09,235 --> 01:26:11,771
CAN TALK ABOUT SORT OF LIKE HUGE

3019
01:26:11,771 --> 01:26:13,573
CHANGE EVERYWHERE, BUT JUST TO

3020
01:26:13,573 --> 01:26:15,875
FOCUS, YOU KNOW, JUT AT M.I.T.,

3021
01:26:15,875 --> 01:26:18,645
IF -- TODAY, IF YOU COULD

3022
01:26:18,645 --> 01:26:19,279
CHANGE -- WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE,

3023
01:26:19,279 --> 01:26:20,313
LIKE, RIGHT NOW IF YOU COULD

3024
01:26:20,313 --> 01:26:21,247
JUST SAY THIS SHOULD BE

3025
01:26:21,247 --> 01:26:22,449
DIFFERENT AT M.I.T. TO MAKE IT

3026
01:26:22,449 --> 01:26:25,485
BETTER?

3027
01:26:25,485 --> 01:26:27,220
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL,
I'VE BEEN

3028
01:26:27,220 --> 01:26:29,656
RETIRED NOW FOR 11 YEARS.

3029
01:26:29,656 --> 01:26:31,558
AND SO I'M NOT REALLY THE PERSON

3030
01:26:31,558 --> 01:26:32,525
TO ASK.

3031
01:26:32,525 --> 01:26:36,129
TO ME, AGAIN, I LOOK AND I SAY

3032
01:26:36,129 --> 01:26:37,764
WE HAVE A WOMAN PRESIDENT --

3033
01:26:37,764 --> 01:26:38,765
>> AT M.I.T.

3034
01:26:38,765 --> 01:26:39,232
>> AT M.I.T.

3035
01:26:39,232 --> 01:26:43,803
I MEAN -- OH, YEAH, M.I.T.

3036
01:26:43,803 --> 01:26:44,170
[LAUGHTER]

3037
01:26:44,170 --> 01:26:45,772
AND SHE'S JUST -- I LOVE HER.

3038
01:26:45,772 --> 01:26:48,375
I MEAN, FOR WOMEN OF MY

3039
01:26:48,375 --> 01:26:49,576
GENERATION, THE IDEA THERE COULD

3040
01:26:49,576 --> 01:26:51,811
EVER BE A WOMAN PRESIDENT OF

3041
01:26:51,811 --> 01:26:52,579
M.I.T., WE DIDN'T EVEN THINK

3042
01:26:52,579 --> 01:26:53,580
ABOUT IT, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT

3043
01:26:53,580 --> 01:26:54,080
IT.

3044
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:55,415
WE WEREN'T CREATIVE ENOUGH TO

3045
01:26:55,415 --> 01:26:57,350
IMAGINE IT.

3046
01:26:57,350 --> 01:27:00,186
SO I THOUGHT -- I MEAN, WOMAN

3047
01:27:00,186 --> 01:27:01,821
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

3048
01:27:01,821 --> 01:27:03,123
BEFORE THERE'D BE A WOMAN

3049
01:27:03,123 --> 01:27:05,058
PRESIDENT OF HARVARD.

3050
01:27:05,058 --> 01:27:07,260
SO FOR US, THESE CHANGES WERE

3051
01:27:07,260 --> 01:27:08,428
EXTRAORDINARY IN THEMSELVES, BUT

3052
01:27:08,428 --> 01:27:10,230
I THINK THAT THE ONE THAT WE

3053
01:27:10,230 --> 01:27:12,632
JUST TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, AND I

3054
01:27:12,632 --> 01:27:17,203
THINK THAT LOTTIE BAYLAND -- IF

3055
01:27:17,203 --> 01:27:18,838
MEN AND WOMEN TOGETHER DESIGN

3056
01:27:18,838 --> 01:27:20,373
SOMEBODY THAT WORKED FOR

3057
01:27:20,373 --> 01:27:21,541
EVERYBODY OPTIMALLY, HOW DID WE

3058
01:27:21,541 --> 01:27:23,009
DO IT, I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING AT

3059
01:27:23,009 --> 01:27:23,677
CHANGE AT THAT LEVEL.

3060
01:27:23,677 --> 01:27:25,211
I THINK TO THE EXTENT -- IN

3061
01:27:25,211 --> 01:27:27,714
FACT, M.I.T. JUST FINISHED, THEY

3062
01:27:27,714 --> 01:27:29,449
ON THEIR OWN DECIDED TO GO AND

3063
01:27:29,449 --> 01:27:30,650
DO AN UPDATE FOR THE WHOLE OF

3064
01:27:30,650 --> 01:27:32,552
M.I.T. FOR THE 25TH ANNIVERSARY,

3065
01:27:32,552 --> 01:27:33,887
I GUESS, THE M.I.T. REPORT THAT

3066
01:27:33,887 --> 01:27:35,588
WE DID MANY YEARS AGO, AND THEY

3067
01:27:35,588 --> 01:27:38,091
COLLECTED DATA ACROSS M.I.T. AND

3068
01:27:38,091 --> 01:27:39,726
SO THEY'RE STILL AT IT.

3069
01:27:39,726 --> 01:27:40,994
THEY'RE MAKING SURE EVERYTHING

3070
01:27:40,994 --> 01:27:42,429
IS FAIR AND EQUITABLE.

3071
01:27:42,429 --> 01:27:44,297
BUT IT'S THIS OTHER QUESTION.

3072
01:27:44,297 --> 01:27:45,665
>> OF BIAS, YEAH.

3073
01:27:45,665 --> 01:27:46,666
>> THANK YOU.

3074
01:27:46,666 --> 01:27:48,201
YEAH.

3075
01:27:48,201 --> 01:27:49,169
>> HELLO.

3076
01:27:49,169 --> 01:27:51,337
MY NAME IS GRETA FORBES.

3077
01:27:51,337 --> 01:27:52,739
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TO

3078
01:27:52,739 --> 01:27:53,306
TALK TO US.

3079
01:27:53,306 --> 01:27:55,508
I'M ACTUALLY ONE OF ROSIE'S

3080
01:27:55,508 --> 01:27:57,711
TRAINEES, AND I'M IN AWE OF HER

3081
01:27:57,711 --> 01:28:00,447
KINDNESS EVERY INK  SINGLE DAY O

3082
01:28:00,447 --> 01:28:01,314
EVEN THE SMALL CHANGES REALLY

3083
01:28:01,314 --> 01:28:02,348
IMPACT THE WHOLE FIELD OF

3084
01:28:02,348 --> 01:28:02,682
ACADEMIA.

3085
01:28:02,682 --> 01:28:04,884
BUT MY QUESTION IS, I'M

3086
01:28:04,884 --> 01:28:05,919
INTERESTED IN MOVING INTO THE

3087
01:28:05,919 --> 01:28:09,522
FIELD OF IMMUNOLOGY IN

3088
01:28:09,522 --> 01:28:11,057
GYNECOLOGICAL DISORDERS BUT THE

3089
01:28:11,057 --> 01:28:12,225
POLITICAL CLIMATE, THERE'S A LOT

3090
01:28:12,225 --> 01:28:14,060
OF RHETORIC ABOUT COLLAPSING THE

3091
01:28:14,060 --> 01:28:16,029
NIH AND DOING POLICIES THAT ARE

3092
01:28:16,029 --> 01:28:17,297
IMPACTING WOMEN'S HEALTH.

3093
01:28:17,297 --> 01:28:18,832
WHAT DO YOU -- WHAT WORDS DO YOU

3094
01:28:18,832 --> 01:28:23,336
HAVE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO

3095
01:28:23,336 --> 01:28:25,472
THE SCIENCE AND ALSO THE WORK TO

3096
01:28:25,472 --> 01:28:27,107
MAKE THINGS BETTER?

3097
01:28:27,107 --> 01:28:30,944
>> WHAT ADVICE DO I HAVE?

3098
01:28:30,944 --> 01:28:32,912
[LAUGHTER]

3099
01:28:32,912 --> 01:28:37,784
WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG, BE SELFISH.

3100
01:28:37,784 --> 01:28:39,753
YOU KNOW, ONE THING I SHOULD

3101
01:28:39,753 --> 01:28:42,589
SAY, IF THESE WOMEN HADN'T HAD

3102
01:28:42,589 --> 01:28:43,690
TENURE, THEY COULD NOT HAVE DONE

3103
01:28:43,690 --> 01:28:44,257
THIS.

3104
01:28:44,257 --> 01:28:48,595
THEY HAD THE SECURITY OF THAT.

3105
01:28:48,595 --> 01:28:50,830
BUT WHAT MADE THIS GROUP

3106
01:28:50,830 --> 01:28:52,265
SPECIAL, EVERY ONE OF THOSE

3107
01:28:52,265 --> 01:28:53,099
WOMEN MADE A CONTRIBUTION TO

3108
01:28:53,099 --> 01:28:55,068
THIS EFFORT THAT WAS ESSENTIAL.

3109
01:28:55,068 --> 01:28:56,603
WHAT MADE THEM SPECIAL WAS, THEY

3110
01:28:56,603 --> 01:28:57,604
WERE PEOPLE WHO I THINK COULD

3111
01:28:57,604 --> 01:28:59,205
NOT HAVE BEEN HAPPY WITHOUT

3112
01:28:59,205 --> 01:28:59,472
SCIENCE.

3113
01:28:59,472 --> 01:29:00,707
THEY WERE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT

3114
01:29:00,707 --> 01:29:01,875
WHICH THEY WERE SO PASSIONATE,

3115
01:29:01,875 --> 01:29:03,810
THEY WOULD HAVE PUT UP WITH MUCH

3116
01:29:03,810 --> 01:29:05,044
WORSE THAN ANYTHING THEY EVER

3117
01:29:05,044 --> 01:29:06,312
EXPERIENCED AND STILL DONE IT.

3118
01:29:06,312 --> 01:29:07,080
AND THAT WAS CERTAINLY MY

3119
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:07,447
FEELING.

3120
01:29:07,447 --> 01:29:09,783
I MEAN, I COULDN'T IMAGINE LIFE

3121
01:29:09,783 --> 01:29:12,418
WITHOUT SCIENCE.

3122
01:29:12,418 --> 01:29:13,820
SO I THINK IF YOU HAVE A PASSION

3123
01:29:13,820 --> 01:29:15,421
AND SO FORTH, THAT'S CRITICAL.

3124
01:29:15,421 --> 01:29:16,756
THEN IF YOU CAN GET -- YOU NEED

3125
01:29:16,756 --> 01:29:17,857
SOMEWHERE TO STAND, HAVE SOME

3126
01:29:17,857 --> 01:29:18,591
POWER.

3127
01:29:18,591 --> 01:29:20,827
IF YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE

3128
01:29:20,827 --> 01:29:21,928
SOMETHING, HOW DO YOU GET POWER?

3129
01:29:21,928 --> 01:29:24,464
I USED TO SAY HOW DO I GET SOME

3130
01:29:24,464 --> 01:29:26,266
POWER AROUND HERE?

3131
01:29:26,266 --> 01:29:28,334
AND OUR POWER CAME FROM THE

3132
01:29:28,334 --> 01:29:29,969
SOLIDARITY OF THOSE WOMEN.

3133
01:29:29,969 --> 01:29:30,937
AND THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE, BY

3134
01:29:30,937 --> 01:29:32,672
THE WAY, THAT DOES WORRY ME, WHY

3135
01:29:32,672 --> 01:29:34,874
DON'T WOMEN SUPPORT EACH OTHER

3136
01:29:34,874 --> 01:29:39,012
MORE THAN THEY DO?

3137
01:29:39,012 --> 01:29:40,880
BUT HOW DO YOU JUST KEEP GOING?

3138
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:43,616
>> I THINK -- SO JUST
HAVING

3139
01:29:43,616 --> 01:29:46,119
WRITTEN HER STORY, AND TALKING

3140
01:29:46,119 --> 01:29:47,487
TO ALL THESE OTHER WOMEN, THAT

3141
01:29:47,487 --> 01:29:49,856
WHAT KEPT PEOPLE GOING, IN SOME

3142
01:29:49,856 --> 01:29:51,090
WAYS YOU COULD SAY IS A BAD

3143
01:29:51,090 --> 01:29:52,725
THING BECAUSE THEY DID KIND OF

3144
01:29:52,725 --> 01:29:53,960
PUT BLINDERS ON TO ALL OF THE

3145
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:54,961
THINGS THAT WERE HAPPENING TO

3146
01:29:54,961 --> 01:29:56,029
THEM BECAUSE THAT WAS THE WAY

3147
01:29:56,029 --> 01:29:58,264
THEY COULD SURVIVE, BUT EVERYONE

3148
01:29:58,264 --> 01:30:01,234
WAS SO DRIVEN BY PASSION FOR

3149
01:30:01,234 --> 01:30:03,036
SCIENCE, AND I THINK THAT'S TRUE

3150
01:30:03,036 --> 01:30:04,137
IN IN FIELD, YOU HAVE TO

3151
01:30:04,137 --> 01:30:04,771
REMEMBER WHY YOU'RE DOING WHAT

3152
01:30:04,771 --> 01:30:06,005
YOU'RE DOING AND THAT WILL KEEP

3153
01:30:06,005 --> 01:30:06,906
YOU GOING.

3154
01:30:06,906 --> 01:30:07,807
THERE'S CERTAINLY LOTS OF

3155
01:30:07,807 --> 01:30:08,975
EFFORTS OUT THERE TO TRY TO PUT

3156
01:30:08,975 --> 01:30:10,009
MORE ATTENTION ON WOMEN'S

3157
01:30:10,009 --> 01:30:11,211
HEALTH, SO I THINK YOU WILL FIND

3158
01:30:11,211 --> 01:30:11,811
THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.

3159
01:30:11,811 --> 01:30:12,846
YOU JUST HAVE TO REMEMBER WHY

3160
01:30:12,846 --> 01:30:13,713
YOU'RE DOING IT.

3161
01:30:13,713 --> 01:30:15,014
ONE THING I WOULD SAY JUST TO

3162
01:30:15,014 --> 01:30:17,417
CLOSE IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN

3163
01:30:17,417 --> 01:30:18,718
TERMS OF WHAT WE CAN CHANGE, A

3164
01:30:18,718 --> 01:30:21,187
LOT OF THIS COMES DOWN TO SMALL

3165
01:30:21,187 --> 01:30:23,189
CHANGES IN OUR ATTITUDE.

3166
01:30:23,189 --> 01:30:25,525
I WAS -- AND THIS IS TRUE FOR ME

3167
01:30:25,525 --> 01:30:26,626
TOO, SO EVEN AFTER DOING ALL

3168
01:30:26,626 --> 01:30:29,028
THIS WORK, I SPOKE TO THE WOMEN

3169
01:30:29,028 --> 01:30:29,829
IN TRANSPORTATION SERVICES

3170
01:30:29,829 --> 01:30:31,297
CONFERENCE WHICH I DID NOT EVER

3171
01:30:31,297 --> 01:30:33,132
EXPECT TO SPEAK TO IN NEW

3172
01:30:33,132 --> 01:30:35,501
ORLEANS THIS SPRING, AND I DID A

3173
01:30:35,501 --> 01:30:36,603
PODCAST WHILE I WAS THERE WITH

3174
01:30:36,603 --> 01:30:39,105
THE HEAD OF A MAJOR RAPID AREA

3175
01:30:39,105 --> 01:30:40,440
TRANSIT SYSTEM, A WOMAN, AND SHE

3176
01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:42,809
SAID WELL, IT'S LIKE RUTH BADER

3177
01:30:42,809 --> 01:30:44,210
GINSBURG SAID THERE WILL BE

3178
01:30:44,210 --> 01:30:45,578
ENOUGH WOMEN ON THE COURT WHEN

3179
01:30:45,578 --> 01:30:45,945
THERE WERE NINE.

3180
01:30:45,945 --> 01:30:48,481
I WAS LIKE, WAIT, NO, NO, NOT

3181
01:30:48,481 --> 01:30:48,748
NINE.

3182
01:30:48,748 --> 01:30:50,683
AND SHE COULD SEE THAT I WAS

3183
01:30:50,683 --> 01:30:51,584
RECOILING BECAUSE I'M THE MOTHER

3184
01:30:51,584 --> 01:30:52,452
OF BOYS, RIGHT?

3185
01:30:52,452 --> 01:30:54,621
SOY WAS LIKE WAIT, WE CAN'T JUST

3186
01:30:54,621 --> 01:30:55,955
REPLACE ALL THE BOYS WITH GIRLS

3187
01:30:55,955 --> 01:30:58,024
WHICH IS WHAT I THINK PEOPLE

3188
01:30:58,024 --> 01:30:59,058
WORRY WOMEN ARE TRYING TO DO.

3189
01:30:59,058 --> 01:31:00,660
SHE SAW WHAT I WAS DOING, LIKE,

3190
01:31:00,660 --> 01:31:02,729
MY SHOCK, AND SHE SAID NO, NO,

3191
01:31:02,729 --> 01:31:04,297
NO, WE HAVE TO GET TO THE POINT

3192
01:31:04,297 --> 01:31:06,900
WHERE THE IDEA OF NINE WOMEN ON

3193
01:31:06,900 --> 01:31:08,401
THE COURT, THAT THERE ARE NINE

3194
01:31:08,401 --> 01:31:10,536
WOMEN QUALIFIED ENOUGH TO BE ON

3195
01:31:10,536 --> 01:31:12,639
THE COURT AND THAT IS NOT

3196
01:31:12,639 --> 01:31:13,873
EXCEPTIONAL, WE HAVE TO GET TO

3197
01:31:13,873 --> 01:31:15,375
THAT POINT BECAUSE FOR SO LONG,

3198
01:31:15,375 --> 01:31:17,744
WE DID NOT THINK IT UNUSUAL OR

3199
01:31:17,744 --> 01:31:19,379
ODD THAT THERE WERE NINE MEN ON

3200
01:31:19,379 --> 01:31:19,679
THE COURT.

3201
01:31:19,679 --> 01:31:21,881
SO IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF

3202
01:31:21,881 --> 01:31:22,916
UNDERSTANDING THE POTENTIAL OF

3203
01:31:22,916 --> 01:31:26,019
WOMEN.

3204
01:31:26,019 --> 01:31:35,128
[APPLAUSE]

3205
01:31:35,128 --> 01:31:35,662
>> ALL RIGHT.

3206
01:31:35,662 --> 01:31:36,829
THANK YOU SO MUCH TO EVERYBODY

3207
01:31:36,829 --> 01:31:38,197
FOR YOUR FANTASTIC QUESTIONS.

3208
01:31:38,197 --> 01:31:43,369
THANK YOU AGAIN TO KATE ZERNIKE

3209
01:31:43,369 --> 01:31:45,939
AND NANCY HOPKINS.

3210
01:31:45,939 --> 01:31:47,974
WE WILL BE HAVING A RECEPTION

3211
01:31:47,974 --> 01:31:50,209
THAT IS HOSTED BY FAES RIGHT

3212
01:31:50,209 --> 01:31:51,477
OUTSIDE WITH COFFEE AND TREATS,

3213
01:31:51,477 --> 01:31:52,712
SO MAKE SURE TO CHECK THAT OUT,

3214
01:31:52,712 --> 01:31:55,548
AND WE WILL HAVE A PART 2 FOR

3215
01:31:55,548 --> 01:31:57,617
THIS EVENT IN PORTER THAT IS

3216
01:31:57,617 --> 01:32:00,053
BUILDING 35, ROOM 610, WHERE

3217
01:32:00,053 --> 01:32:01,354
KATE WILL BE TALKING AND WE'RE

3218
01:32:01,354 --> 01:32:02,822
GOING TO HAVE A FIRESIDE CHAT

3219
01:32:02,822 --> 01:32:04,791
WITH BOTH OF THEM FOR ANY MORE

3220
01:32:04,791 --> 01:32:06,326
BURNING QUESTIONS THAT EVERYBODY

3221
01:32:06,326 --> 01:32:06,993
MAY HAVE.

3222
01:32:06,993 --> 01:32:08,594
ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU TO WOMEN

3223
01:32:08,594 --> 01:32:10,029
SCIENTISTS ADVISORS, WOMEN

3224
01:32:10,029 --> 01:32:11,998
SCIENTISTS FELLOWS, AND THE

3225
01:32:11,998 --> 01:32:13,333
PORTER BOOK CLUB FOR SPONSORING

3226
01:32:13,333 --> 01:32:13,700
THIS EVENT.

3227
01:32:13,700 --> 01:32:22,742
[APPLAUSE]