1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,080 >> WELCOME TO THE FOURTH SESSION 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,480 OF THE 21st YEAR OF THE 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,680 COURSE, DEMYSTIFYING MEDICINE. 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,280 THE OVERALL GOAL IS TO BRIDGE 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,960 EXCITING DEVELOPMENTS IN BIOLOGY 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,520 AND ENGINEERING WITH MEDICINE. 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,760 THIS IS THE LOGO OF 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:29,440 THE COURSE, THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE, 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,840 MANY OF US THINK OF IT AS THE 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,800 MOST FAMOUS BRIDGE IN HISTORY. 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,080 AND WE ARE LIKE THE INDIVIDUALS 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,560 ON THE CATWALK, TAKING ADVANTAGE 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,400 OF HEARING EXPERT IDEAS AND 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,280 OPINIONS AND INFORMATION FROM 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,400 INDIVIDUALS WHO REPRESENT TWO 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,720 VERY DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES, BUT 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,920 DEALING WITH A MAJOR DISEASE 18 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:57,400 PROBLEM. 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,120 THE TWO SPECIFIC BRIDGES BEING 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,640 CROSSED TODAY IN COMMUNICATION 21 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:08,640 ARE, ONE, THE 19th CENTURY 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,040 DISCOVERY BY ELIE METCHNIKOFF 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,520 AND SECONDLY HOW MEDICAL HISTORY 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,880 RESULTS IN RECENT RESURRECTING A 25 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,640 DISCARDED DISCOVERY IN THE TIME 26 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,600 OF COVID PANDEMIC. 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,520 140 YEARS AGO METCHNIKOFF, A 28 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,440 RUSSIAN-BORN NATURALIST, NOT A 29 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:33,640 PHYSICIAN, STUDIED THE STARFISH 30 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,160 AND DISCOVERED WHAT HE CULLED 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:47,880 THE CALLED THE CELL EATING, 32 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:56,160 PHAGOCYTIC IMMUNE SYSTEM, BURIED 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:56,600 FOR YEARS. 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,880 BOTH AMERICAN RECEIVED PRIZE FOR 35 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,680 STUDIES ON IMMUNOLOGY. 36 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,840 OVER THE NEXT CENTURY THERE WERE 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,280 TEN NOBEL PRIZES GIVEN FOR 38 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,640 RESEARCH DEALING WITH ADAPTIVE 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:08,720 SYSTEM. 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,800 BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL 2013 THAT 41 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,080 THE AWARD WAS GIVEN TO BOYDLER 42 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,600 AND HOFFMAN FOR DISCOVERY OF 43 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,760 TOLL RECEPTORS FOR MACROPHAGES, 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,640 THE FIRST AWARD GIVEN FOR ANY 45 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:26,240 STUDIES DEALING WITH THE INNATE 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,760 IMMUNE SYSTEM. 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:28,960 METCHNIKOFF STUDIED THE 48 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:30,160 MICROBIOME ALONG THE WAY AND 49 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:38,840 PROPOSED ITS ROLE IN HEALTH, 50 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,280 DISEASE, EVEN AGING. 51 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,480 OUR FIRST SPEAKER TODAY, NEXT 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,880 SLIDE PLEASE, IS LUBA VIKHANSKI, 53 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,880 SHE'S A NOTED SCIENCE WRITER OF 54 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,280 ARTICLES AND BOOKS AND WORKS AT 55 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:03,920 THE WEIZMANN INSTITUTE IN 56 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:04,200 ISRAEL. 57 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,080 SHE OBTAINED ACCESS TO 58 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,880 PREVIOUSLY UNAVAILABLE 59 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,480 INFORMATION FROM THE PASTEUR 60 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,920 INSTITUTE WHERE METCHNIKOFF WAS 61 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,000 A DIRECTOR AND WROTE A BOOK, HOW 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,880 ELIE METCHNIKOFF CHANGED THE 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,280 COURSE OF MODERN MEDICINE. 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,200 THE TITLE OF HER TALK IS 19th 65 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,400 CENTURY INNATE IMMUNITY, ELIE 66 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,360 METCHNIKOFF AND THE IMMUNITY 67 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:34,680 WAR. 68 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,640 OUR SECOND SPEAKER IS BOB GALLO, 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,720 WHO RECEIVED HIS MEDICAL DEGREE, 70 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,280 TRAINED IN IMMUNOLOGY AT YALE, 71 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,920 IN CHICAGO, SPENT 30 YEARS AT 72 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,080 THE NIH, NATIONAL CANCER 73 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,560 INSTITUTE, WHERE HE WAS HEAD OF 74 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,960 THE LABORATORY OF TUMOR CELL 75 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:56,280 BIOLOGY. 76 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,080 PRIOR TO THE AIDS PANDEMIC, BOB 77 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,680 WAS THE FIRST TO IDENTIFY A 78 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,800 HUMAN RETROVIRUS, HTLV-1, AS 79 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,680 CAUSING A HUMAN CANCER. 80 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,440 AND IN 1982, I HEARD HIM PRESENT 81 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,480 AT A COLD SPRING HARBOR MEETING, 82 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,280 THE CONCEPT, HIS IDEA, THAT AIDS 83 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:26,040 WAS CAUSED BY A RETROVIRUS. 84 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,680 IN 1984, HE CO-DISCOVERED HIV AS 85 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,640 THE CAUSE OF AIDS, AND HIS 86 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,560 RESEARCH BROUGHT HONORS FROM 87 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,000 COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, 88 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,560 ELECTION TO THE NATIONAL ACADEMY 89 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,080 OF SCIENCES, INSTITUTE OF 90 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,960 MEDICINE, ABOUT 35 HONORARY 91 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,440 DOCTORATES, AND IN 1980s AND 92 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,160 '90s HE WAS THE MOST 93 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,440 REFERENCED SCIENTIST IN THE 94 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:52,880 WORLD. 95 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,920 AND MOST REMARKABLY, HAD THE 96 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,320 UNIQUE DISTINCTION WINNING 97 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:08,000 AMERICA'S MOST PRESTIGIOUS 98 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,280 SCIENTIFIC AWARD, THE LASKER 99 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:10,840 AWARD IN MEDICINE. 100 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:13,480 HIS DISCOVERIES LED TO 101 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,280 DIAGNOSTIC AND THERAPEUTIC 102 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:18,160 ADVANCES IN CANCER, AIDS, AND 103 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,360 OTHER VIRAL DISORDERS. 104 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,200 AND TODAY, HIS WORK CONTINUES AT 105 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,720 THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND WHERE 106 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,280 HE'S THE GUDELSKY DISTINGUISHED 107 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:30,400 PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, 108 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,360 CO-FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF THE 109 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,200 INSTITUTE OF HUMAN BIOLOGY, AND 110 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,280 CO-FOUNDER AND SCIENTIFIC 111 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:40,320 ADVISER TO THE GLOBAL VIRUS 112 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:40,840 NETWORK. 113 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:42,720 RECENTLY, HE HAS TURNED HIS 114 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,240 ATTENTION TO THE INNATE IMMUNE 115 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,840 SYSTEM, AS IT APPLIES TO 116 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:49,800 COVID-19 AND OTHER VIRAL 117 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,400 DISEASES. 118 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,080 AND THE TITLE OF BOB'S TALK IS 119 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,920 REFLECTION ON SARS-COV-2 120 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,080 PANDEMIC AND INNATE IMMUNITY. 121 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,480 SO, WE WILL BEGIN WITH LUBA 122 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:04,720 VIKHANSKI. 123 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:04,880 IT'S A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU WITH US 124 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,840 THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS 125 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:08,760 OPPORTUNITY TO TALK. 126 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,760 I WANT TO SAY A WORD ABOUT MY 127 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:11,800 VIRTUAL BACKGROUND. 128 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,640 THIS IS THE LIBRARY OF THE 129 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,240 PASTEUR INSTITUTE IN PARIS, AND 130 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:18,320 IN THIS INSTITUTE, METCHNIKOFF 131 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,960 WORKED FOR THE SECOND HALF OF 132 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,400 HIS LIFE AND WAGED TWO MAJOR 133 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,120 BATTLES IN HIS LIFE. 134 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,320 ONE WAS TO ADVANCE HIS THEORY OF 135 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,480 IMMUNITY, AND THE OTHER WAS TO 136 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,200 DEFEAT AGING. 137 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,200 AND WHEN HE DIED IN 1916, IT 138 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,000 SEEMED HE LOST BOTH HIS BATTLES. 139 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,080 BUT TODAY WE CONSIDER HIM A 140 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,600 WINNER, AND I WILL TELL YOU HOW 141 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,400 THIS HAPPENED. 142 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,320 AND IN THE PROCESS I HOPE TO 143 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,400 GIVE YOU INSIGHT TO THE ORIGINS 144 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,560 OF THE 145 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:54,920 INNATE IMMUNITY RESEARCH. 146 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:55,960 LET ME INVITE YOU TO PARIS AT 147 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,640 THE HEIGHT OF THE PERIOD THAT 148 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,240 BECAME KNOWN AS THE BELLE EPOCH, 149 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,080 A SPLURGE OF CREATIVITY IN THE 150 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,480 CITY, THESE ARE ICONIC WORKS OF 151 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,680 HEARTS AROUND THAT TIME, THE 152 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,760 EIFFEL TOWER IS ALMOST FINISHED 153 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,000 FOR THE UPCOMING WORLD FAIR. 154 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,640 AND THE SAME YEAR, 1888, A NEW 155 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,400 INSTITUTION OPENS IN PARIS, FOR 156 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,480 DIFFERENT SORT OF CREATIVITY, IN 157 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,320 SCIENCE AND MEDICINE. 158 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,600 IT IS THE PASTEUR INSTITUTE, AND 159 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,920 THE VERY FIRST SCIENTIST TO MOVE 160 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,760 INTO THIS BUILDING IS THE 161 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,600 RUSSIAN ZOOLOGIST, ELIE 162 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,640 METCHNIKOFF, HE CHANGES HIS 163 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,960 FIRST NAME TO ELI WHEN HE COMES 164 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,560 TO FRANCE, FROM ODESSA, IN ORDER 165 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,680 TO DEFEND HIS THEORY OF 166 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,000 IMMUNITY, WHICH IS IN TROUBLE. 167 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,880 WHO WAS METCHNIKOFF? 168 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:58,640 HERE HE IS AS AN ANGRY YOUNG 169 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,000 MAN, BORN IN UKRAINE, WHICH WAS 170 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,720 THEN PART OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE. 171 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:12,600 HIS FATHER CAME FROM MOLDAVIAN 172 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:13,640 NOBILITY, MOTHER'S JEWISH 173 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,480 PARENTS CONVERTED TO 174 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,160 CHRISTIANITY, GRADUATED FROM 175 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,360 UNIVERSITY AT 19, LOOKING FOR AN 176 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,120 INTERESTING RESEARCH TOPIC. 177 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,520 AT THE TIME, ONE OF THE CENTRAL 178 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,240 QUESTIONS IN BIOLOGY WAS HOW ARE 179 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,360 DIFFERENT TYPES OF ANIMALS 180 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,240 RELATED TO ONE MOTHER. 181 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,440 METCHNIKOFF WAS BLOWN AWAY BY 182 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,080 "THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES" 183 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,680 PUBLISHED RECENTLY BY DARWIN. 184 00:08:38,680 --> 00:08:43,440 THEN THERE WAS THE IDEA THAT 185 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,680 PERHAPS DARWIN'S EVOLUTION WAS 186 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:45,680 STILL VERY CONTROVERSIAL, AND 187 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:48,360 THERE WAS THE IDEA THAT PERHAPS 188 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:54,640 IT COULD BE FIGURED OUT THROUGH 189 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:55,320 EMBRYOLOGY. 190 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:56,840 BUT EMBRYOLOGY IN VERTEBRATES 191 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,440 WAS NOT MUCH STUDIED, AND IN 192 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,000 GENERAL THEY WERE SO DIVERSE 193 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,640 PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THERE IS NO 194 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,200 WAY THAT THEY COULD HAVE ALL 195 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:15,040 COME FROM A COMMON ANCESTOR LIKE 196 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,200 DARWIN HAD SUGGESTED. 197 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,600 HE BEGAN TO STUDY EMBRYO, THEY 198 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,200 WERE MADE UP OF GERM LAYERS, 199 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,200 FROM WHICH DIFFERENT ORGANISMS 200 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,960 GERMINATED IN THE SAME WAY AS 201 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,800 VERTEBRATES. 202 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,760 HE IN FACT CREATED ONE OF THE 203 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,720 FIRST LINKS BETWEEN THE TWO 204 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,320 TYPES OF ANIMALS, OTHER PEOPLE 205 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,400 WERE STUDYING MORPHOLOGY AND IT 206 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,320 WAS JUST TOO DISSIMILAR. 207 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:42,240 BUT THROUGH STUDYING DEVELOPMENT 208 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:50,200 THE WAY HE DID, HE SHOWED A 209 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,920 UNITY HERE, TWO EXAMPLES, TWO 210 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,840 PAPERS, ONE IN SQUID, ONE IN 211 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:58,160 SCORPIONS. 212 00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,680 AT A YOUNG AGE BECAME A 213 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,840 CO-FOUNDER OF A NEW BRANCH OF 214 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,200 SCIENCE, COMPARATIVE EMBRYOLOGY 215 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:06,920 OF INVERTEBRATES, PARTICULARLY 216 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,680 FASCINATED BY THE MIDDLE GERM 217 00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:14,800 LAYER, MESODERM, SOMETIMES 218 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,200 EMBRYOS HAD ONLY TWO LAYERS, AND 219 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,040 THIS MESODERM CONTAINED A MOBILE 220 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,000 CELL THAT SOMETIMES THEY STAYED 221 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,960 ON IN THE ADULT ANIMAL, AND 222 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,120 THESE CELLS PERFORMED A 223 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:30,880 PRIMITIVE FORM OF DIGESTION IN 224 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,920 ANIMALS THAT DIDN'T HAVE A 225 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,200 PROPER DIGESTIVE SYSTEM. 226 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,800 SO, HE CONDUCTED STUDIES OF THE 227 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:40,080 DIGESTION. 228 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:41,880 THESE ARE SOME OF THE DRAWINGS 229 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,960 FROM HIS PAPERS. 230 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,360 AND THESE ARE PICTURES I FOUND 231 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,680 ON THE INTERNET OF THE RELEVANT 232 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:53,480 SPECIES AND FIGURED OUT WITH 233 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,360 DYES ORGANELLES WHICH DIGESTION 234 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:04,240 TOOK PLACE THE CONTENT OF THE 235 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,200 ORGANELLES WAS ACIDIC, STUDIES 236 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,400 MOBILE CELLS IN EVERY 237 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,880 TRANSPARENT ANIMAL HE COULD LAY 238 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,720 HIS HANDS ON, THIS IS A PARTIAL 239 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:12,640 LIST FROM ONE PAPER. 240 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,400 AND THEN HE WROTE A REVIEW ABOUT 241 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:16,800 THIS. 242 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,600 HE WASN'T THE FIRST SCIENTIST TO 243 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,600 STUDY INTRACELLULAR DIGESTION 244 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,200 BUT CONDUCTED EXPANSIVE STUDIES 245 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,960 AND SYSTEMATIC ONES AND COULD 246 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:29,600 DRAW GENERALIZED CONCLUSIONS, 247 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,280 FOR EXAMPLE THIS WAS AN ACTIVE 248 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,360 PROCESS, NOT MERELY 249 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:37,800 DISINTEGRATION. 250 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,960 WHEN METCHNIKOFF WAS IN HIS LATE 251 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,120 30s, HIS WIFE OLGA INHERITED A 252 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:44,800 LARGE ESTATE. 253 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:50,440 AND THIS CAME IN HANDY BECAUSE 254 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,800 HE HAD QUARRELED WITH 255 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:52,440 ADMINISTRATION AT ODESSA 256 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:52,880 UNIVERSITY. 257 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:57,360 HE WAS A PROFESSOR OF ZOOLOGY. 258 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,000 NOW THE ESTATE HIS WIFE 259 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,800 INHERITED BROUGHT IN THREE TIMES 260 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,800 A PROFESSOR'S SALARY. 261 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,600 SO HE NO LONGER HAD TO WORRY 262 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,040 ABOUT MAKING A LIVING, AND HE 263 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,000 COULD DEVOTE HIMSELF ENTIRELY TO 264 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,440 SCIENCE, AND WITH OLGA TRAVELED 265 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,760 TO SICILY TO THE PORT OF 266 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,120 MESSINA, WHERE HE WANTED TO 267 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,120 STUDY MARINE ANIMALS, AND ONE OF 268 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,360 THE SPECIES THAT HE STUDIED WAS 269 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:25,600 THE STARFISH. 270 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,920 THIS IS A LARVA OF A STARFISH, 271 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,800 VERY PLEASED TO FIND THIS IMAGE, 272 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,120 JUST THE SPECIES METCHNIKOFF 273 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,000 WORKED ON, INTERESTED IN THE 274 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,160 CELLS IN THE LARVA, THAT 275 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,440 PERFORMED DIGESTION, AND THERE 276 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,320 HAD AN IDEA FOR AN EXPERIMENT 277 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,480 THAT BECAME REALLY HIS MOST 278 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,000 FAMOUS EXPERIMENT. 279 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,080 AND WHEN HE LATER WON THE NOBEL 280 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,600 PRIZE FOR THIS WORK, HE WROTE AN 281 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,600 ESSAY ABOUT HIS STAY IN SICILY, 282 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,240 AND IN THAT ESSAY HE TOLD THE 283 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,800 STORY OF HOW HE SUDDENLY HAD 284 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,200 THIS IDEA THAT PERHAPS THE SAME 285 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,080 MOBILE CELLS IN THE LARVA 286 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,280 PERFORM NOT ONLY DIGESTION BUT 287 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,200 MAYBE SERVE THE ORGANISM IN 288 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,320 RESISTANCE AGAINST HARMFUL 289 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:15,880 AGENTS. 290 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,880 SO, HE RAN INTO THE GARDEN AND 291 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,360 BROUGHT BACK SOME THORNS FROM A 292 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,760 ROSE BUSH AND HE INSERTED THEM 293 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,240 UNDER THE SKIN OF THE 294 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,360 TRANSPARENT LARVA, THE FOLLOWING 295 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,520 DAY IN THE MORNING HE SAW THAT 296 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,520 THE EXPERIMENT HAD BEEN A 297 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:32,400 SUCCESS. 298 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,000 THAT THE MOBILE CELLS INDEED 299 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,680 GANGED UP ON THE THORNS, 300 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:40,800 OBVIOUSLY IN ORDER TO PROTECT 301 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,440 THE LARVA, AND FROM THIS HE DREW 302 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,920 THE CONCLUSION THAT MAYBE THE 303 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,480 HYPOTHESIS THAT PERHAPS THE SAME 304 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,440 CELLS IN THE HUMAN BODY ALSO 305 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,400 PLAY A PRODUCTIVE ROLE. 306 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,720 IT WAS MOST UNUSUAL AT THE TIME 307 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,200 TO MAKE THIS CONCLUSION FROM AN 308 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,800 INVERTEBRATE TO THE HUMAN BODY. 309 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,880 BUT METCHNIKOFF WAS A CURIOUS 310 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,360 MAN AND HE HAD ATTENDED COURSES 311 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,560 IN PATHOLOGY AND HE KNEW THAT 312 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:14,200 SOMETIMES LEUKOCYTES WERE FOUND 313 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,600 AT THE SITE OF INFECTION AND 314 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:26,440 THAT SOMETIMES THEY ALSO 315 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,280 CONTAINED MICROBES, SO THAT WAS 316 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:39,080 HOW HE REALLY MADE THIS JUMP FRP 317 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,640 STARFISH TO HUMANS, HE SAID HE 318 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,120 SUDDENLY BECAME A PATHOLOGIST. 319 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,240 HE WRITES AT A EUREKA MOMENT BUT 320 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,400 WE HAVE SEEN THIS WAS PRECEDED 321 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,720 BY YEARS AND YEARS OF STUDIES, 322 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,440 AND THIS WAS HOW THE FIRST 323 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,040 MODERN THEORY OF IMMUNITY WAS 324 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:04,240 BORN. 325 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,080 JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME HISTORIC 326 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,120 CONTEXT, AT THE TIME THERE WAS 327 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,400 NOTHING KNOWN ABOUT IMMUNITY. 328 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:16,680 IT WAS ALREADY SOME PROGRESS IN 329 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:17,400 UNDERSTANDING DISEASES, LOUIS 330 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:18,600 PASTEUR STARTED CREATING THE 331 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,800 FIRST VACCINES, BUT NO ONE HAD A 332 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,640 CLUE HOW VACCINES WORKED. 333 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:30,480 AND A FEW MONTHS EARLIER ROBERT 334 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,480 KOCH DISCOVERED THE BACILLI 335 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,000 CAUSING TUBERCULOSIS BUT NO ONE 336 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,320 NEW WHY SOME PEOPLE RECOVERED 337 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,600 FROM TB. 338 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,800 THE HUMAN BODY WAS SEEN AS A 339 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:41,800 VESSEL, PEOPLE THOUGHT IF 340 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,000 SOMEBODY RECOVERED IT WAS SIMPLY 341 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,920 BECAUSE THE GERMS DIED IN AND OF 342 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:50,320 THEMSELVES. 343 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,120 SO WHEN METCHNIKOFF PUBLISHED 344 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,800 HIS FINDINGS FROM SICILY, IN 345 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,160 1883, THESE ARE THE DRAWINGS OF 346 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,640 THE STARFISH LARVA AND THE 347 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,400 THORNS AND HOW THE CELLS PROTECT 348 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:03,600 THE LARVA. 349 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200 HE WAS VERY CAREFUL AND AT THE 350 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,960 END MADE A CAUTIOUS STATEMENT 351 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,120 THAT MAYBE THE SAME DIGESTION 352 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,200 PLAYS A PROTECTIVE ROLE IN 353 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,520 PROTECTING THE ORGANISM AGAINST 354 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,600 HARMFUL BODIES FROM THE OUTSIDE. 355 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,000 BUT ALREADY IN THAT PAPER, HE 356 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,600 COINED NEW NAMES FOR THESE 357 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:26,360 CELLS, CALLED THEM PHAGOCYTES, 358 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,600 FROM GREEK WORDS FOR EATING AND 359 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,640 CELLS, THE PROCESS BECAME 360 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,240 PHAGOCYTOSIS AND LATER ON IN 361 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,480 ANOTHER PAPER HE COINED THE TERM 362 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:44,800 MACROPHAGES FOR BIG EATERS AND 363 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,240 MICROPHAGEES, NEUTROPHILS, TERMS 364 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,760 NO LONGER USED, SMALLER AND MORE 365 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,480 MOBILE PHAGOCYTES. 366 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,560 HE CONTINUED TO STUDY PHAGOCYTES 367 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,200 IN DIFFERENT ANIMALS AND SHOWED 368 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:01,600 THAT THEY ALSO PLAY A ROLE IN 369 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,400 MAINTENANCE, HOMEOSTASIS, IN 370 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:05,080 CONSUMING ATROPHIED FISHES, 371 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:11,080 NEXT? E. FOR EXAMPLE WHEN A 372 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:12,920 TADPOLE TURNS INTO A FROG, THESE 373 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,440 ARE DRAWINGS OF PROGRESSION OF 374 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,880 ATROPHY, AND MADE 375 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,600 MODERN-SOUNDING GUESSES ABOUT 376 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,800 THE ORIGINS OF PHAGOCYTES, THE 377 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,400 ONES IN TISSUES AND BLOOD MUST 378 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,920 COME FROM THE SAME SOURCE. 379 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,200 BUT UNTIL THEN, HIS THINKING 380 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,760 ABOUT PHAGOCYTES AS A FORCED 381 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,880 IMMUNITY WAS A BRILLIANT GUESS, 382 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,120 BASED ON INTUITION. 383 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:38,600 HE HADN'T SEEN EVIDENCE OF THAT. 384 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:45,280 AND THEN HE FOUND EVIDENCE IN 385 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:51,400 MOST UNLIKELY PLACE, IN A FRIEND 386 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,360 IN ODESSA, HE SAW THE LITTLE 387 00:17:55,360 --> 00:18:00,400 CREATURES, NICKNAMED WATER 388 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,920 FLEAS, AND THEY WERE INFECTED BY 389 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,000 A FUNGUS. 390 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,040 HE LOOKED IN THE MICROSCOPE AND 391 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,560 SAW THIS CORRECTION OF 392 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,840 PHAGOCYTES IN THE ABDOMEN -- 393 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,720 COLLECTION OF PHAGOCYTES IN THE 394 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,800 ABDOMEN THAT TRIED TO STOP, 395 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,000 CONSUME THE FUNGI. 396 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,480 WHEN THEY MANAGED IN THE 397 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:31,000 DARKNESS, SURVIVED, WHEN THEY 398 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,120 DIDN'T THE CREATURES DIED. 399 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,200 HE LATER WROTE A HISTORIC ESSAY 400 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,880 ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE 401 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,680 PHAGOCYTE THEORY SOME 30 YEARS 402 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,360 LATER AND WROTE THAT WHEN THE 403 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,640 THEORY WAS ATTACKED FROM ALL 404 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:50,840 SIDES, AND HE ASKED, IF HAD HE 405 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,800 GOTTEN ON THE WRONG TRACK, ALL 406 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,560 HE HAD TO DO WAS RECALL FUNGAL 407 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,080 DISEASE OF THE DAPHNIA TO KNOW 408 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,600 HE WAS A FIRM GROUND. 409 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,000 INDEED WHEN HE STARTED 410 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,000 PUBLISHING HIS STUDIES ON 411 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,040 PHAGOCYTOSIS AND IMMUNITY, HE 412 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,520 WAS REALLY ATTACKED FROM ALL 413 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:12,960 SIDES. 414 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:18,800 HIS IDEAS RAN COUNTER TO 415 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,440 EVERYTHING THAT PHYSICIANS 416 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:20,720 BELIEVED. 417 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,400 PATHOLOGISTS HAD SEEN MICROBES 418 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,400 INSIDE CELLS BUT BELIEVED THE 419 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,960 CELLS SPREAD DISEASE, CERTAINLY 420 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,640 DIDN'T FIGHT THEM. 421 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,920 SOME OF THE RESPONSES AND 422 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,200 OBJECTIONS TO METCHNIKOFF'S 423 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,360 THEORIES WERE INSULTING. 424 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:43,520 PERHAPS THE WORST ONE CAME FROM 425 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,040 THIS RESPECTABLE FRENCH 426 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,680 PHYSICIAN WHO SAID THAT 427 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,000 PHAGOCYTE THEORY IS AN ORIENTAL 428 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,440 FAIRY TALE BORN IN THE HEAD OF A 429 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,160 COSSACK AND I WONDERED WERE 430 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,160 THESE ATTACKS SO VICIOUS. 431 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,200 I THINK IT'S BECAUSE MEDICINE 432 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,600 ARE RECENTLY BECOME A PROPER 433 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,040 SCIENCE AND PHYSICIANS WERE 434 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,880 PROUD OF THAT, AND EVERYTHING 435 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,920 HAD TO BE BASED ON THE MATERIAL 436 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:13,320 EVIDENCE. 437 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,760 HERE HIS IDEAS OF CELLS THAT EAT 438 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,920 MICROBES, THEY JUST SOUNDED SO 439 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:25,000 WEIRD, IT SMACKED OF MYSTICISM, 440 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,480 VITALISM, ALL THESE DISCREDITED 441 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,120 SERIES, AND HE WASN'T EVEN A 442 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,080 PHYSICIAN. 443 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,200 HE WAS A ZOOLOGIST. 444 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,320 HE WAS AN OUTSIDER, A RUSSIAN. 445 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,080 SO, THEY DIDN'T WANT THE 446 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,560 DISCIPLINE TO BE DISCREDITED. 447 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,680 SO METCHNIKOFF FELT HE HAD TO 448 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,920 FIGHT BACK AND THAT WAS WHEN HE 449 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,240 MOVED TO THE PASTEUR INSTITUTE 450 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,800 IN PARIS, IN ORDER TO PROPERLY 451 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,440 DEFEND HIS THEORY. 452 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,240 THEN AT THE TIME IN GERMANY, 453 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,560 SCIENTISTS DEVELOPED A RIVAL 454 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:01,760 THEORY OF IMMUNITY. 455 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,400 THEY SAID IMMUNITY DID NOT 456 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,800 DEPEND ON CELLS BUT RATHER ON 457 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,200 THE BODY FLUIDS, THE ARCHAIC 458 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,240 NAME WAS HUMOROUS, THIS THEORY 459 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,800 BECAME KNOWN AS THE HUMORAL 460 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:23,120 THEORY, ONE OF THE MOST 461 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,320 PROMINENT PROPONENTS OF THIS WAS 462 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,920 EMIL BEHRING, IN ONE HIS FIRST 463 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:30,520 PAPERS CHALLENGED METCHNIKOFF 464 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:36,240 AND SAID HE WANTS TO HIGHLIGHT 465 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,560 EXPERIMENTS THAT SHOW PURELY 466 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,000 CHEMICAL VIEWPOINT FOR IMMUNITY. 467 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000 SO WHAT HAPPENED LATER ON 468 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,240 METCHNIKOFF CALLED THE ATTACKS 469 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:48,920 ON HIS THEORY A WAR. 470 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,880 THAT'S WHY I CALLED IT IMMUNITY 471 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,360 WAR IN MY BOOK. 472 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:56,800 AND IN FACT, THERE WAS A GREAT 473 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,800 HOSTILITY AT THE TIME BETWEEN 474 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,880 FRANCE AND GERMANY, IT ALL WENT 475 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,640 BACK TO THE WAR BETWEEN FRANCE 476 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,280 AND RUSSIA A FEW YEARS BEFORE 477 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:09,680 THAT. 478 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,520 SO, AS SOON AS METCHNIKOFF 479 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,760 ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH PASTEUR IT 480 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,120 GAME A MATTER OF HONOR FOR 481 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:17,120 GERMAN SCIENTISTS TO PROVE HIM 482 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,040 WRONG IN ORDER TO SHOW WHO WAS 483 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,600 SUPERIOR IN SCIENCE AND 484 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,680 MEDICINE, WHO WAS THE TRUE RULER 485 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,160 OF EUROPE. 486 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,800 SO, POOR METCHNIKOFF HAD TO 487 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,360 FIGHT HIS IMMUNITY WAR AGAINST 488 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:37,080 THE BACK DROP OF A REAL WAR, 489 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,120 THIS POLITICAL HOSTILITY 490 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,800 CERTAINLY ADDED FUEL TO THE 491 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,120 FIRE. 492 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:45,200 SO THERE WERE NOW TWO REALLY 493 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,960 CAMPS OF IMMUNITY. 494 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,000 METCHNIKOFF WITH HIS CELLULAR 495 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,880 IMMUNITY IN FRANCE, AND THE 496 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,640 GERMAN SCIENTISTS WITH THEIR 497 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,720 HUMORAL IMMUNITY. 498 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,000 AND IN FACT METCHNIKOFF WAS AT A 499 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 DISADVANTAGE FROM THE START 500 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,200 BECAUSE HUMORAL IMMUNITY VERY 501 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,400 SOON PROVED VERY USEFUL. 502 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,600 NOW IN RETROSPECT, WE SAY THAT 503 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:11,200 BEHRING DISCOVERED ANTIBODIES. 504 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,000 AT THE TIME, AT THE BEGINNING 505 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,200 SCIENTISTS DID KNOW WHAT WAS IN 506 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,400 THE BODY FLUIDS, THEY KNEW THERE 507 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,880 WAS SOME BIOLOGICAL CHEMICALS 508 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,720 THERE, BUT EVEN BEFORE THAT WAS 509 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,720 COMPLETELY AND FULLY FIGURED OUT 510 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,280 BEHRING STARTED USING BODY 511 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,800 FLUIDS IN TREATING CHILDREN FOR 512 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,240 DIPHTHERIA. 513 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,520 THIS WAS THERAPY, IMMUNIZED 514 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,120 HORSES AND OTHER LARGE ANIMALS 515 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,200 AGAINST DIPHTHERIA AND DREW THE 516 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:49,120 BLOOD AND WITH THE SERUM THEY 517 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:49,960 TREATED CHILDREN, FOR 518 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,600 DIPHTHERIA, ADULTS AS WELL, 519 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,200 QUITE SUCCESSFULLY. 520 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,480 THERE WAS TREMENDOUS EXCITEMENT 521 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,160 OVER THAT. 522 00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,800 SOMETIMES WE THINK BACK ABOUT 523 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,720 ANTIBIOTICS AS THE FIRST 524 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,600 SUCCESSFUL THERAPY AGAINST 525 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,320 INFECTION, BUT IN FACT IT WAS 526 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,280 SERUM THERAPY THAT WAS THERE 527 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:09,480 FIRST. 528 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,680 AND WHEN THE NOBEL PRIZES WERE 529 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,200 AWARDED FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 530 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,280 1901, THE FIRST PRIZE IN 531 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,640 MEDICINE WENT TO BEHRING FOR HIS 532 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:21,760 SERUM THERAPY. 533 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,800 BUT METCHNIKOFF WAS NOT 534 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,920 DISCOURAGED BY THE FACT THAT HIS 535 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,200 STATUS WAS NOT PRACTICAL. 536 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,520 ON THE CONTRARY, HE WAS 537 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,280 ENERGIZED BY THIS CONFRONTATION. 538 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,240 HE LAUNCHED A LARGE PROGRAM OF 539 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,800 STUDIES AT THE PASTEUR 540 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,320 INSTITUTE, A WHOLE SERIES OF 541 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,480 STUDIES HAD TO DO WITH 542 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,440 PHAGOCYTES AND INFLAMMATION. 543 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,960 HE DELIVERED 12 LECTURES AT THE 544 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,480 PASTEUR INSTITUTE, THEY WERE 545 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,400 LATER -- THEY CAME OUT AT A 546 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,520 BOOK, TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH 547 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,880 NOW CONSIDERED A CLASSIC BECAUSE 548 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,120 HE LAID FOUNDATIONS FOR THE 549 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:02,200 MODERN UNDERSTANDING OF 550 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:02,520 INFLAMMATION. 551 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,800 AT THE TIME, SCIENTISTS THOUGHT 552 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,360 THAT INFLAMMATION WAS PASSIVE 553 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,600 AND HARMFUL. 554 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,840 THAT LEUKOCYTES THROUGH BLOOD 555 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,520 VESSELS, CAUSED NOTHING BY HARM. 556 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,600 METCHNIKOFF ARGUED IT WAS 557 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,240 ACTUALLY ACTIVE AND HEALING. 558 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,640 AND HE WROTE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT 559 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,680 BY THE BLOOD CURRENT ORGANISM 560 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,280 CAN AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT SEND A 561 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,320 CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF 562 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,600 LEUKOCYTES TO AVERT EVIL. 563 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,200 BUT THE MAJOR POINT OF 564 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,600 CONTENTION BETWEEN THE TWO CAMPS 565 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,960 WAS WHETHER PHAGOCYTES CAN OR 566 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,840 CANNOT KILL THE GERMS. 567 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,080 OF COURSE THE GERMAN SCIENTISTS 568 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,600 BELIEVED THAT THEY DIDN'T KILL 569 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,080 THEM, THEY SIMPLY PICKED UP DEAD 570 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,360 BACTERIA. 571 00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:56,000 FOR EXAMPLE, ONE PROMINENT 572 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,600 BACTERIALOLOGYIST WROTE IN ONE 573 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,400 GERMAN JOURNAL THAT I PICKED 574 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,560 THIS QUOTE, I LIKE IT BECAUSE 575 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,280 IT'S VERY POETIC, PHAGOCYTES ARE 576 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,920 EITHER VICTIMS OF BACTERIA THAT 577 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,520 CONTINUE VICTORIOUS MARCH OR ARE 578 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,600 GRAVES SCATTERED OUTSIDE THE 579 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,000 BATTLEFIELD, MEANING THEY 580 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,320 CONTAIN DEAD BODIES OF THE 581 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,840 BACTERIA AFTER THE FIGHTING IS 582 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:23,040 OVER. 583 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:35,480 SO METCHNIKOFF HAD TO PROVE THAT 584 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,080 PHAGOCYTE KILLED BACTERIA, 585 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:44,320 INFECTED PIGEONS WITH ANTHRAX, 586 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,960 REMOVED PHAGOCYTES FILLED WITH 587 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,800 ANTHRAX GERMS AND APPLIED A 588 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,320 SOLUTION TO KILL THE CELL. 589 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,200 A FEW HOURS LATER LOOKED AND SAW 590 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,200 BACTERIA CONTINUED TO GROW. 591 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,080 HE WROTE THAT USING THIS METHOD 592 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,360 SIMPLE AND DEMONSTRATIVE HE WAS 593 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,840 ABLE TO SHOW THAT PHAGOCYTES 594 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,400 CAPTURE THE BACTERIA LIVE. 595 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,800 BUT OF COURSE HIS OPPONENTS WERE 596 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,000 NOT CONVINCED AND CONTINUED TO 597 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,720 SHOW THAT FLUIDS COULD KILL 598 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,120 BODY -- BODY FLUIDS COULD KILL 599 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,080 BACTERIA WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM 600 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,160 CELLS, AND THEN CAME THE MAJOR 601 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,720 OPPONENT, THE FINAL ONE, THIS 602 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,320 GERMAN JEWISH SCIENTIST, PALMER 603 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,400 LICK WHO DEVELOPED THE NOTION OF 604 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,440 RECEPTORS, CALLED THEM SIDE 605 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,760 CHAINS, ANTIBODIES CAN 606 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,880 NEUTRALIZE PATHOGENS THROUGH THE 607 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,160 PRECISE FIT, HE BORROWED A 608 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,280 METAPHOR FROM ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, 609 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,040 LOCK AND KEY. 610 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,600 AND THIS BECAME HUGE BECAUSE IT 611 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:55,280 SORT OF LAID THE FOUNDATIONS FOR 612 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:55,840 THE ENTIRE PHARMACEUTICAL 613 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,440 INDUSTRY OF THE FOLLOWING 614 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,600 20th, AND PALMER LICK STARTED 615 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,880 DEVELOPING DRUGS, YOU CALLED 616 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,080 THEM MAGIC BULLETS, A MOVIE WAS 617 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,320 MADE IN HOLLYWOOD, DR. EHRLICH'S 618 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,000 MAGIC BULLET. 619 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,960 NOW, METCHNIKOFF TRIED TO ARGUE 620 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,480 THERE WAS NO CONTRADICTION 621 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,600 BETWEEN PHAGOCYTES AND 622 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,040 RECEPTORS. 623 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,920 BUT EHRLICH WOULD HEAR NONE OF 624 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:24,360 THAT. 625 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:28,200 THEY KNEW EACH OTHER AND 626 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,600 ACTUALLY PERSONALLY EHRLICH 627 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,840 LIKED METCHNIKOFF BUT HE 628 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,800 BELIEVED ONLY IN CHEMISTRY, ALL 629 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,000 THIS TALK ABOUT EATING CELLS, 630 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,720 RUSSIAN MYSTICISM TO HIM, AND 631 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,400 EVEN ONCE WROTE TO A FRIEND IN 632 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,320 DENMARK THAT HE HAD GREAT 633 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,400 ADMIRATION FOR THE HEAD OF THE 634 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,800 PASTEUR INSTITUTE AND WROTE IT 635 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,600 WAS SUCH A SHAME THAT HE SHOULD 636 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,040 STRAYED SO DEEPLY INTO MYSTICISM 637 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,440 AND RUSSIAN FOG. 638 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,440 AND OF COURSE MEANING THAT 639 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,240 METCHNIKOFF HAD TOO MUCH 640 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:12,760 INFLUENCE OVER HIM. 641 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,800 SO, MANY BELIEVED IN 642 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:20,840 PHAGOCYTOSIS, THAT IT WAS REAL, 643 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,280 BUT IT WAS CONSIDERED USELESS, 644 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,680 NOBODY WORKED ON THAT, AND THE 645 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,440 FUTURE OF MEDICINE SEEMED TO 646 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,760 BELONG TO ANTIBODIES, NEW 647 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,480 VACCINES, NEW THERAPIES, AND SO 648 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,960 THE WORST BLOW TO METCHNIKOFF 649 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:48,040 WAS WHEN THE ENEMY ABANDONED 650 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,320 HIM, GERMAN SCIENTISTS STOPPED 651 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,240 FIGHTING FROM HIM AND WITHOUT 652 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,560 OPPOSITION HE LOST STEAM. 653 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,600 ON HE STOPPED WORKING ON 654 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,160 IMMUNITY. 655 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:05,520 HE WROTE IN 1901, THESE ARE 656 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,000 DRAWINGS FROM THE BOOK, AND THEN 657 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,960 IT SEEMED LIKE THIS WAS IT FOR 658 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,920 THE PHAGOCYTES THEORY. 659 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,720 A FEW YEARS LATER, WHEN KNOW 660 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,200 COMMITTEE DECIDED TO AWARD NOBEL 661 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,320 PRIZE FOR COMMUNITY, METCHNIKOFF 662 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,400 WAS HONORED EVEN THOUGH IT 663 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,400 SEEMED THE HUMORAL CAMP HAD WON, 664 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,600 HE HAD BEEN THE FIRST TO TALK 665 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,080 ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE IMMUNITY 666 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,400 THAT BROUGHT HEALING POWERS OF 667 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,920 THE BODY AND EXPLAINED WHAT 668 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,840 LEUKOCYTES DO WHICH IS HUGE AND 669 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,960 HE CONDUCTED LOTS AND LOTS OF 670 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,040 VALUABLE STUDIES. 671 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,840 BUT THE CATCH WAS THAT THE PRIZE 672 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,560 WAS SHARED BETWEEN HIM, HAD HE 673 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,200 TO SHARE THE PRIZE WITH EHRLICH. 674 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,960 THE NOBEL COMMITTEE WROTE THAT 675 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,480 BY DIVIDING THE PRIZE BETWEEN 676 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,440 THEM, THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE 677 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,400 SIDES IN THIS IMMUNITY DEBATE. 678 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,400 AND OF COURSE IN RETROSPECT, 679 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,880 THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. 680 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,080 THEY CONSIDERED ONE OF THE MOST 681 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,640 WORTHY AND MOST WELL AWARDED 682 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,080 NOBEL PRIZES. 683 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,600 BUT BOTH METCHNIKOFF AND EHRLICH 684 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,240 WERE UNHAPPY. 685 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,800 EHRLICH BELIEVED HE DESERVED THE 686 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,400 PRIZE ON HIS OWN AND METCHNIKOFF 687 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:36,320 DIDN'T GO TO THER CEREMONY IN 688 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,360 STOCKHOLM, WROTE HE WAS BUSY 689 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,360 TEACHING AT THE PASTEUR 690 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,240 INSTITUTE BUT MORE LIKELY IT WAS 691 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:42,720 AN EXCUSE AND HE JUST DIDN'T 692 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,200 WANT TO PLAY SECOND FIDDLE TO 693 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,800 EHRLICH IN STOCKHOLM. 694 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,400 AND ALSO BY THEN ONCE HE WROTE 695 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,440 HIS MAJOR WORK ON IMMUNITY, HE 696 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,080 WAS IN HIS MID-50s, HE WAS 56. 697 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,240 AND HE STARTED TO WORRY ABOUT 698 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:02,480 AGING. 699 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,840 HE SWITCHED, BY NOW HE HAD 700 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,360 COMPLETELY NEW DIRECTION OF 701 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:09,880 STUDIES. 702 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,440 HE DEVELOPED THIS THEORY THAT IT 703 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,440 WAS THE CONTENT OF THE MICROBES 704 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,200 IN THE INTESTINES, TODAY WE CALL 705 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,000 THE MICROBIOME, RESPONSIBLE FOR 706 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,400 AGING, THAT THEY RELEASED 707 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,200 POISONS THAT SOMEHOW IMPROPERLY 708 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,480 STIMULATED PHAGOCYTES AND THAT'S 709 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,880 WHAT CAUSED THE PROPER -- THE 710 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,280 ATROPHY OF TISSUES. 711 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,200 HE STARTED STUDYING OLD ANIMALS. 712 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,560 THIS IS A STUDY OF PARROTS, 713 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:40,000 LONG-LIVED BIRDS. 714 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,640 THIS IS A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE 715 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,480 BRAIN OF A YOUNG PARROT AND OLD 716 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,840 PARROT, WHICH HAS NEURONS THAT 717 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:57,280 WERE SWALLOWED BY PHAGOCYTES. 718 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,520 HE ALSO STARTED WRITING 719 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:00,560 PHILOSOPHICAL BOOKS ABOUT THIS, 720 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,600 AND THIS IS THE FIRST ONE. 721 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,600 THIS IS CALLED "THE NATURE OF 722 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,320 MAN," AND IN THIS BOOK HE COINED 723 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,400 A NEW TERM, GERONTOLOGY, AND HE 724 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,040 CALLED ON OTHER SCIENTISTS TO 725 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,680 STUDY AGING IN A SYSTEMATIC WAY. 726 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,280 SO FOR THE THIRD TIME IN HIS 727 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,200 LIFE BECAME A FOUNDER OF A NEW 728 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,800 SCIENCE. 729 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,440 THEN HE WROTE IN BROAD TERMS, 730 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,040 WHAT HE SAW AT DISHARMONY OF 731 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,160 HUMAN NATURE. 732 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,360 THE WORD HARMONY WAS BETWEEN THE 733 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,120 SHORTEST OF LIFE AND THE 734 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,520 INFIRMITIES OF OLD AGE AND THE 735 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,000 STRONG WILL TO LIVE THAT PEOPLE 736 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,280 CONTINUED TO EXPERIENCE. 737 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,360 HE THOUGHT THIS WAS THE GREATEST 738 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,200 DISHARMONY OF ALL. 739 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,400 BUT NOTE THE SUBTITLE, STUDIES 740 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,400 OF OPTIMISTIC PHILOSOPHY. 741 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,000 AND WHEN METCHNIKOFF WAS AWARDED 742 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,600 THE NOBEL PRIZE, THE "NEW YORK 743 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,600 TIMES" RAN THE VERY LONG 744 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,720 INTERVIEW WITH HIM THAT ALSO WAS 745 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:13,200 SUBTITLED, THE APOSTLE OF 746 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,000 OPTIMISM, AND A BUNCH OF 747 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,080 INTELLECTUALS IN PARIS CREATED A 748 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,800 CLUB TO PROMOTE OPTIMISM, THEY 749 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,880 INVITED HIM. 750 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,400 HE BELIEVED HUMAN LIFE SHOULD 751 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,440 BE. 752 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,200 SHOULD BE MUCH LONGER, NORMAL 753 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,800 CYCLE OF LIFE SHOULD BE PERHAPS 754 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,560 SOMETHING LIKE 150 YEARS AND 755 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:40,960 BELIEVED THAT IF PEOPLE LIVED 756 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,320 THROUGH WHAT HE CALLED THE FULL 757 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,920 AND NORMAL CYCLE, THEY WILL LOSE 758 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,200 THE LIFE INSTINCT AND DEVELOP A 759 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,720 DEATH INSTINCT AND THEY WILL DIE 760 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:56,440 WILLINGLY. 761 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,000 HE WROTE ANOTHER PHILOSOPHICAL 762 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,480 BOOK, THE PROLONGATION OF LIFE, 763 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,400 OPTIMISTIC STUDIES, AND I WANTED 764 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,800 TO KNOW WHY DID OPTIMISM, THE 765 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,680 WORD ON THE -- THE WORD 766 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,080 OPTIMISM, THE CONCEPT CAME UP SO 767 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:12,280 MUCH. 768 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,600 AT THE TURN OF THE 20th 769 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,960 CENTURY PESSIMISM AND OPTIMISM 770 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,400 WERE MORE VIEWED AS 771 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,480 PHILOSOPHICAL OUTLOOKS RATHER 772 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,080 THAN STATES OF MIND, THE WAY WE 773 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,400 VIEW THEM TODAY. 774 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,440 AND IN FACT, THE DICHOTOMY 775 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,400 BETWEEN PESSIMISM AND OPTIMISM 776 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,360 WAS KIND OF CENTRAL TO 777 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,720 INTELLECTUAL LIFE IN EUROPE. 778 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,960 SO IT WAS ONLY NATURAL FOR 779 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,160 METCHNIKOFF TO DEFINE WHERE HE 780 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,920 STOOD ON THIS ISSUE. 781 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,520 BUT HE WASN'T AN EXTREME 782 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,040 OPTIMIST. 783 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,480 PEOPLE WERE AGAIN ASKING THE 784 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,880 SAME WAY AS WE DO NOW, IS THE 785 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,200 WORLD GETTING BETTER? 786 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,240 AND EXTREME OPTIMIST WOULD SAY 787 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,200 SURELY IT IS BUT METCHNIKOFF 788 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,640 DIDN'T THINK THE WORLD WAS 789 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,760 GETTING BETTER ON ITS OWN. 790 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,800 BUT HE DID THINK THAT IT COULD 791 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,240 BE IMPROVED WITH THE HELP OF 792 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:10,000 SCIENCE. 793 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,000 HUMAN CONSTITUTION IS NOTABLE 794 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,760 AND CAN BE ALTERED TO BENEFIT 795 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,440 HUMANITY, THAT'S WHY HE DEFINED 796 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,800 HIMSELF AS AN OPTIMIST. 797 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,840 AT THE TIME PESSIMISM WAS A MUCH 798 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,960 MORE POPULAR PHILOSOPHY. 799 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,600 SO HERE AGAIN HE WAS GOING 800 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:26,680 AGAINST THE GENERAL TYPE. 801 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,480 HE WAS AT THE SAME TIME AS BEING 802 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,000 A VISIONARY WAS A VERY PRACTICAL 803 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:34,760 MAN. 804 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,600 SO, HE CAME UP WITH A SOLUTION 805 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,200 TO AGING, AT LEAST A WAY TO 806 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,400 DELAY IT, AS HE HOPED. 807 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,640 BELIEVE IT OR NOT THIS IS 808 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,600 PROBIOTIC YOGURT, WHAT YOU BUY 809 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,840 TODAY IN THE SUPERMARKET. 810 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,960 THESE ARE PILLS OF LACTIC ACID 811 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,400 BACTERIA, METCHNIKOFF CAME UP 812 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,800 WITH THIS IDEA THAT YOGURT COULD 813 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,400 DELAY AGING BECAUSE IT CONTAINS 814 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,480 THE BACTERIA THAT TURN MILK 815 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,320 SUGARS INTO ACID AND THIS ACID 816 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,480 IN THE TEST TUBE KILLED OTHER 817 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,880 BACTERIA. 818 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,560 SO HE THOUGHT THAT IF THE SAME 819 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:27,480 THING HAPPENS IN INTESTINES, IF 820 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,000 BACTERIA KILL THE HARMFUL ONES 821 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,000 PERHAPS AGING COULD BE DELAYED. 822 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,400 THIS STARTED YOGURT CRAZE ALL 823 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,880 OVER THE WORLD, AND METCHNIKOFF 824 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,080 HIMSELF WAS EATING YOGURT THREE 825 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,200 TIMES A DAY. 826 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,560 AND HE ALSO TRIED TO PREVENT 827 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,320 GERMS FROM GETTING INTO THE 828 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:45,520 BODY. 829 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,720 HE ATE EVERYTHING BOILED AND HE 830 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:52,840 STERILIZED UTENSILS IN 831 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,040 RESTAURANTS BEFORE EATING, AND 832 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,160 FOR HIS GUESTS, AND PEOPLE WERE 833 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,880 ALL OVER THE WORLD BUYING YOGURT 834 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,000 AND THESE PILLS. 835 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,720 THESE PILLS HAVE HIS NAME ON 836 00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:03,720 THEM, HE ALLOWED ONE COMPANY TO 837 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,760 USE THE -- TO PROMOTE HIM USING 838 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,160 HIS NAME AND HE BECAME WHAT 839 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,000 TODAY WE WOULD CALL A MEDIA 840 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,720 PERSONALITY, ALREADY FAMOUS BY 841 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:17,800 THEN BUT YOGURT REALLY MADE HIM, 842 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,080 YOU KNOW, SORT OF A HOUSEHOLD 843 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:21,720 NAME. 844 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:23,920 AND THIS STARTED THE MODERN 845 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,840 YOGURT INDUSTRY. 846 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,400 UNTIL THEN YOGURT WAS THIS 847 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,280 OBSCURE ETHNIC FOOD. 848 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,440 THIS IS A CARTOON OF METCHNIKOFF 849 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,280 SHOWING HIM TURNING OUT 850 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:34,760 CENTENARIANS. 851 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,920 AND THEN IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL 852 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,640 THIS OPTIMISM AND HOPE FOR LONG 853 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:44,680 LIFE, ALL THESE STUDIES, WORLD 854 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,800 WAR I BROKE OUT. 855 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,000 AND IN THE WAY, IT KILLED 856 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,640 METCHNIKOFF BECAUSE HE SO 857 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,200 BELIEVED IN RATIONAL THINKING 858 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,680 AND PROGRESS, AND SCIENCE, AND 859 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,560 SO THE SENSELESS KILLING, 860 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,600 MASSIVE KILLING JUST DEVASTATED 861 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,080 HIM. 862 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,240 AND HE DEVELOPED SEVERE HEART 863 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:04,400 TROUBLE, HEART FAILURE. 864 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:11,880 HE DIED AT THE AGE OF 71. 865 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,840 AND SO HIS THEORIES OF AGING 866 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:15,920 WERE NOT ACCEPTED ANYWAY IN THE 867 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,440 SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AND WHEN HE 868 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,800 HIMSELF DIED NOT EVEN HALFWAY TO 869 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,160 HIS GOAL OF 150, SO THAT WAS 870 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,320 PRETTY MUCH IT FOR THOSE IDEAS. 871 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,520 AND NO ONE WAS WORKING ON THE 872 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,080 PHAGOCYTE THEORY BY THEN. 873 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,360 SO IT REALLY SEEMED HE LOST ON 874 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,040 BOTH FRONTS. 875 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,320 BUT TODAY IN RETROSPECT, WE -- 876 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,200 HE'S CONSIDERED THE FOUNDING 877 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,240 FATHER OF INNATE IMMUNITY 878 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:52,080 RESEARCH, AND EARLY FOUNDER OF 879 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:52,880 ADAPTIVE IMMUNITY RESEARCH. 880 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,280 AND I'M SURE MANY OF OF YOU KNOW 881 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:58,120 ABOUT FRIENDLY COLLABORATIONS 882 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,160 BETWEEN SCIENTISTS WHO WORK ON 883 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,680 THESE TWO ARMS OF THE IMMUNE 884 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,120 SYSTEM, BUT PERHAPS IF YOU -- 885 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,200 WHEN YOU THINK BACK, YOU KNOW, 886 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,880 IT WASN'T ALWAYS AS FRIENDLY AT 887 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:11,040 ALL. 888 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,320 SO MAYBE WE CAN APPRECIATE MORE 889 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,800 THE COLLABORATIONS THAT EXIST 890 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:17,000 TODAY. 891 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,120 AND WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST 892 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,360 FEW YEARS ALSO THAT MICROBIOME 893 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,440 BECAME TOTALLY LEGITIMATE TOPIC 894 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,120 IN AGING RESEARCH, AND PROBABLY 895 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,680 PLAYS A ROLE IN THE AGING 896 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:35,920 PROCESS. 897 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,320 SO, ABOUT A CENTURY AFTER 898 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,200 METCHNIKOFF DIED, I CONDUCTED A 899 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:47,120 SEARCH IN PubMed TO SEE WHAT 900 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,480 HAPPENED WITH PHAGOCYTE 901 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:48,760 RESEARCH. 902 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:54,760 A NUMBER OF STUDIES PER YEAR. 903 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,400 LIKE DR. ARIS, IT WAS FORGOTTEN, 904 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,240 AND THIS SURGE OF STUDIES. 905 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,200 THE SAME THING YOU SEE, SAME 906 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,280 GRAPH YOU SEE WHEN YOU DO A 907 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,520 SEARCH FOR MACROPHAGE, AND I'M 908 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,800 SURE THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A 909 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,640 GREAT SOURCE OF OPTIMISM FOR 910 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:19,400 METCHNIKOFF AND IN FACT IT PUTS 911 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:20,200 HIS OPTIMISTIC PHILOSOPHY IN A 912 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,800 NEW LIGHT IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU 913 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,640 KNOW, THE OPTIMISM THAT CAN COME 914 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,040 FROM -- FOR ADVANCES IN SCIENCE 915 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,000 AND MEDICINE THAT CAN COME FROM 916 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,000 THIS SURGE OF STUDIES IN INNATE 917 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:33,840 IMMUNITY. 918 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,360 AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE RECENT 919 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,400 COVERS OF JOURNALS WITH 920 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,360 METCHNIKOFF'S PICTURES ON THE 921 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:41,600 COVER. 922 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,000 SO, I WOULD LIKE TO END WITH A 923 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:51,920 QUOTE THAT I USE IN MY BOOK, 924 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:52,800 FROM LOUIS PASTEUR, THE 925 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,160 SCIENTIST MUST CONCERN HIMSELF 926 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,200 WITH WHAT ONE WILL SAY ABOUT HIM 927 00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,000 IN A CENTURY RATHER THAN WITH 928 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,400 CURRENT INSULTS OR COMPLIMENTS. 929 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,000 THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 930 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:10,000 >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LUBA, 931 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,600 FOR A WONDERFUL PRESENTATION. 932 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,560 AND OF THE GREAT DEBT THAT WE 933 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,480 HAVE TO A SCIENTIST WHO CAN BE 934 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,400 MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE 935 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,080 THAN ABOUT THE CURRENT STATE OF 936 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,840 TURMOIL. 937 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,840 SO NOW WE'LL PROCEED TO BOB 938 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:35,000 GALLO, WHO IS GOING TO TALK MORE 939 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,040 ABOUT INNATE IMMUNITY NOW. 940 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,000 >>THANK YOU FOR 941 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,720 INVITING ME AND I THANK THE 942 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,240 PEOPLE ATTENDING. 943 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:50,080 IN CONTRAST TO LUBA'S TALK, SHE 944 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,120 MENTIONED THE BEGINNING OF 945 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,000 INNATE IMMUNITY, THE FOCUS ON 946 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,880 MACROPHAGE AND SOMETIMES 947 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:57,200 GRANULOCYTES. 948 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,640 BUT THE INNATE IMMUNITY I'M 949 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,240 TALKING ABOUT IS NOT GUARDING 950 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:03,200 AGAINST LARGER ORGANISMS BUT 951 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,520 RATHER AGAINST VIRUSES SO I 952 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,040 WON'T TALK ABOUT THOSE CELLS 953 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,040 GENERALLY AS FAR AS WE KNOW NOT 954 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,840 SO IMPORTANT FOR VIRUSES. 955 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,600 BUT THINGS LIKE WHAT WE CALL 956 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,640 TODAY IN THE IMMUNE SYSTEM 957 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,960 NATURAL KILLER CELLS, NK CELLS, 958 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:20,960 THINGS LIKE MOLECULES, INSTEAD 959 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,920 OF THE ANTIBODIES, WE'LL BE 960 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,800 TALKING ABOUT INNATE IMMUNE 961 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,280 MOLECULE. 962 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:27,720 INTERFERON. 963 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:28,240 THE VARIOUS INTERFERENCE. 964 00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:30,120 BUT BEFORE I GET TO THAT, I WANT 965 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,800 TO LOOK AT THE FIRST PART OF MY 966 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:46,800 TALK IS ON SUMMARY FLEXION -- 967 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,480 SOME REFLECTIONS ABOUT THE 968 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:48,760 PANDEMIC. 969 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,640 THE OUTLINE IS HERE. 970 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,280 A 971 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,200 A FEW LESSONS FROM HIV AND AIDS, 972 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,520 THE LAST PANDEMIC UNTIL THIS 973 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:57,720 ONE. 974 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,600 NO WAY TO PREPARE FOR HIV/AIDS, 975 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:01,760 WE CAN PREPARE FOR PANDEMICS, 976 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,560 CERTAINLY NO WAY TO PREPARE FOR 977 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,280 HIV AND AIDS. 978 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:07,680 ALTHOUGH PUBLIC HEALTH THINGS 979 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,800 ARE IN COMMON, YOU CAN DO 980 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,960 CERTAIN PUBLIC HEALTH THEMES ONE 981 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,200 PANDEMIC TO ANOTHER OR EPIDEMIC 982 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,040 TO ANOTHER, MICROBES CAN DIFFER. 983 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,560 VIRUSES CAN DIFFER SO MUCH. 984 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,960 IT'S HARD TO DRAW LESSONS ALL 985 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,360 THE TIME, ONE FROM ANOTHER. 986 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,760 THEN I WOULD LIKE TO MORE INTO 987 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,200 SARS-COV-2 COMPLETELY AND POINT 988 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,400 OUT SOME ASPECTS THAT I BELIEVE 989 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,920 STRONGLY, PAN MEANS ALL, THIS 990 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,240 MUST INVOLVE THE WHOLE WORLD. 991 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:35,600 BOTH IN TAKING CARE OF THE WHOLE 992 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:36,800 WORLD, NOT JUST OURSELVES, IT 993 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,240 WILL BE IN OUR INTEREST NOT JUST 994 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,840 DOING THE RIGHT THING, BUT ALSO 995 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,600 WE NEED THE COOPERATION OF 996 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,200 MEDICAL SCIENCE DOCTORS 997 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:47,640 EVERYWHERE. 998 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:48,240 THE COMPLEXITIES OF THERAPY I 999 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,240 DON'T THINK I'LL HAVE TIME TO 1000 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:51,800 GET TO AND SHOULD WE BE SO 1001 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,560 WORRIED ABOUT WHETHER THIS THING 1002 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,880 ORIGINATED AND HOW, I THINK NOT, 1003 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,560 BUT THAT'S MY OPINION. 1004 00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:59,680 THE VACCINES ARE TERRIFIC BUT 1005 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,040 NOT LONG LASTING AND THAT WAS 1006 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:02,600 PREDICTABLE. 1007 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,960 THEY ARE STILL UNAVAILABLE FOR 1008 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,600 MANY PEOPLE. 1009 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:06,680 THE MECHANISMS, WELL, THEY ARE 1010 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,400 NOT REALLY CERTAIN. 1011 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,040 WE BELIEVE IT'S NEUTRALIZING 1012 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,840 ANTIBODIES ATTACKING THE SPIKE 1013 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,160 BUT THERE'S LITTLE PROOF. 1014 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,120 THERE'S SOME SUGGESTION OF OTHER 1015 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,280 THINGS GOING ON. 1016 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,880 IT'S LIKELY THAT IT PLAYS A 1017 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,880 SUBSTANTIAL ROLE BUT MAYBE NOT 1018 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,200 THE ONLY ROLE. 1019 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,040 AND THEN FINALLY BUT TAKING UP 1020 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,000 AT LEAST A THIRD OF THE TALK 1021 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,480 I'LL FOCUS ON INNATE IMMUNE 1022 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:28,280 STIMULATION. 1023 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,640 I HAVE TO TALK ABOUT INNATE 1024 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,600 IMMUNITY AND SHOULD WE STIMULATE 1025 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,000 DELIBERATELY BY REPURPOSING SOME 1026 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,880 OLD VACCINES THAT CAN BE BROADLY 1027 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,400 ACTIVE, THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY 1028 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,680 ARE MADE AGAINST SOME OTHER 1029 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,320 MICROBE, SOME OTHER VIRUS, COULD 1030 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,120 WORK AGAINST SARS TOO, AGAINST 1031 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:49,400 RESPIRATORY VIRUSES IN GENERAL. 1032 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,440 AND THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE 1033 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:51,960 FOR THIS. 1034 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:53,280 I WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT FROM 1035 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,120 THE START. 1036 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,400 I CONTRIBUTED NOTHING TO INNATE 1037 00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:58,800 IMMUNITY ADVANCES. 1038 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,400 I WORKED A LITTLE BIT ON 1039 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,160 INTERFERON'S BASIC MECHANISMS OF 1040 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,120 HOW THEY BLOCKED RETROVIRUSES 1041 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,040 BUT THAT WAS IN THE '70s AND I 1042 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,440 DIDN'T PROBABLY EVEN RECOGNIZE I 1043 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,680 WAS WORKING ON INNATE IMMUNITY 1044 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:12,920 REALLY. 1045 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,920 WHAT I HAVE BEEN IS IMPACTED BY 1046 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,440 IT THINKING HOW WE COULD HAVE 1047 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,200 TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IT AND SHOULD 1048 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,920 HAVE, AND SHOULD FOR THE FUTURE, 1049 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,400 IN THIS REGARD FROM NEW 1050 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,200 EPIDEMICS OR PANDEMICS. 1051 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,640 HAVE THERE HAVE BEEN SIX IN THE 1052 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,480 PAST HUNDRED YEARS, THESE ARE 1053 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,200 WIDELY APART EXCEPT FOR NUNS, 1054 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,880 THAT RECURS, IF YOU GET THE 1055 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,440 WRONG FLU VIRUS WELL ANOTHER 1056 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,960 EPI, SOMETIMES REAL PANDEMIC. 1057 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,320 WE DO HAVE THE FLU OF 1918, THE 1058 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,960 GREAT KILLER, SPANISH FLU, THE 1059 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,080 RUSSIAN FLU OF 1977, SWINE FLU 1060 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,040 OF 2008, WHICH IS ALMOST THE 1061 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:00,520 PANDEMIC. 1062 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:05,000 SO FLU IS THE BIG PROBLEM. 1063 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,480 OF THE GREAT PANDEMICS, FOUR -- 1064 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,680 RATHER, YEAH, FOUR, ARE 1065 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,280 RESPIRATORY, UNDERLYING, THE 1066 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:15,680 THREE FLUS, AND CURRENT SARS. 1067 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:21,960 THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF 1068 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,360 VIRUSES, FOUR, 30 YEARS APART. 1069 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,000 IF WE SAY FLU, USE THE GREAT 1070 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:31,480 FLU, THE REAL BIG PANDEMIC, WE 1071 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,520 JUMP TO POLIO, HIV, LATE 70s 1072 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:40,080 30 YEARS LATER AND THEN SARS, 30 1073 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:41,000 YEARS LATER. 1074 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,360 HIV AND SARS STILL CONTINUE. 1075 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:48,400 IN MY MIND LESSONS OF EACH ARE 1076 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:54,840 FORGOTTEN BY THE NEXT, IF YOU 1077 00:47:54,840 --> 00:48:03,000 READ ABOUT POLIO, LESSONS THE 1078 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,720 GREAT FLU ARE FORGOTTEN. 1079 00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,800 WE FORGOT THE LESSONS AND 1080 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,840 LESSONS OF HIV WERE FORGOTTEN AS 1081 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,040 WELL. 1082 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,440 SO, I'LL COME BACK TO THAT POINT 1083 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,480 ABOUT HOW WE REMEMBER OR DON'T 1084 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:18,760 REMEMBER. 1085 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,080 SO AS I ALREADY SAID, THE 1086 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,040 PANDEMICS, EXCEPTING FLU, HAVE 1087 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,240 BEEN A GENERATION APART, 25 TO 1088 00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,160 30 YEARS, MANY EPIDEMICS IN 1089 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,000 BETWEEN, CONCURRENTLY LIKE 1090 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,680 DENGUE, FIRST SARS, MERS, OTHER 1091 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,360 INFLUENZA STRAINS, CHIKUNGUNYA, 1092 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:48,600 WEST NILE, EBOLA, ZIKA AND 1093 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,560 OTHERS, RNA VIRUSES, MOST 1094 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:51,080 RESPIRATORY. 1095 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:52,840 THEY ALL REPRODUCE AT HIGH 1096 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,920 RATES, I DON'T CONSIDER FINDING 1097 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,520 A RESPIRATORY VIRUS AS REALLY A 1098 00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:58,320 DISCOVERY BECAUSE THEY ARE 1099 00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,760 USUALLY DRIPPING OFF THE TONGUE 1100 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,600 OR THE MOUTH. 1101 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:01,600 IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THEY ARE THE 1102 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,440 CAUSE OF THE DISEASE AND OBVIOUS 1103 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,400 YOU CAN ISOLATE THEM EASILY. 1104 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,480 RNA VIRUSES ALL HAVE HIGH 1105 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,000 MUTATION RATES, WE DON'T HAVE 1106 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,640 TIME TO GET INTO WHY THIS IS 1107 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,480 TRUE BUT THEY MUTATE. 1108 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,000 THIS IS NOTHING NEW WITH 1109 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:18,400 SARS-COV-2. 1110 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,520 CURRENT PANDEMIC PEOPLE THINK 1111 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,080 THIS IS UNIQUE SOMETIMES AND OF 1112 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,120 COURSE ALL RNA VIRUSES HAVE THIS 1113 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,200 KIND OF MUTABILITY. 1114 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:34,440 EXCEPT FOR HIV, EXCEPT FOR HIV, 1115 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:40,720 THEY ARE EASILY TRANSMISSIBLE 1116 00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:42,520 AND EASY TO FIND. 1117 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,160 THIS IS MY VIEWPOINT, IT'S AN 1118 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,000 OPINION, ANY PANDEMIC CAN BE 1119 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,720 DESCRIBED IN ONE WORD. 1120 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:52,040 CHANGE, THE WORD IS CHANGE. 1121 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,520 THAT CAN BE CHANGE IN A VIRUS OR 1122 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,680 CHANGE IN SOCIETY OR BOTH. 1123 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,880 FOR SARS-COV-2, WE DO NOT KNOW 1124 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,600 THE IDENTITY OF THE CHANGE BUT 1125 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,440 LIKELY INVOLVED GENETIC CHANGES 1126 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:08,360 IN PREVIOUSLY EXISTING 1127 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,880 CORONAVIRUS, IN THE SPIKED 1128 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,200 REGION IN PARTICULAR, BUT WAS 1129 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,600 THERE A SOCIAL CHANGE? 1130 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,360 IF SO, WE HAVEN'T IDENTIFIED IT. 1131 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,720 WAS THERE A SOCIAL CHANGE IN THE 1132 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:20,000 WUHAN REGION? 1133 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,200 LET'S CONSIDER SOME PAST 1134 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,200 PANDEMICS AND EPIDEMICS. 1135 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,600 POLIO, WHAT WAS THE CHANGE? 1136 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,760 IT APPEARS POLIO VIRUS WAS A 1137 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,160 CHANGE NOT BY SOCIETY AS MUCH BY 1138 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,480 THE VIRUS, GENETIC CHANGE, IT 1139 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,560 WAS AND IS AN ENTEROVIRUS, 1140 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,200 GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT, WE WON'T 1141 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,600 GO INTO CLASSIFICATION, AN RNA 1142 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:46,000 VIRUS, WE JUST DISCUSSED THAT. 1143 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,200 FROM A RELATIVELY HARMLESS VIRUS 1144 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,080 OF THE GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT 1145 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,600 MUTATED TO CHANGE ITS TROPISM, 1146 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,000 THAT IS, WHAT IT TARGETS, WHAT 1147 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,000 ITS RECEPTOR IS AND BECAME 1148 00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,240 NEUROTROPIC, TARGETING THE CELLS 1149 00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:00,720 OF THE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM 1150 00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,600 CAUSING THE DISEASE WE CALL 1151 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:04,720 POLIO MYELITIS. 1152 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:06,680 WHAT ABOUT CHANGES IN ANCIENT 1153 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:07,000 TIME? 1154 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,440 WE HAVE CHANGES IN SOCIETY WHEN 1155 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,160 ROMANS WENT TO THE EASTERN 1156 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:13,000 MEDITERRANEAN, NEW EPIDEMICS AND 1157 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:13,840 PANDEMIC FOLLOWED. 1158 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,520 CHANGES WHEN THE NEW WORLD WAS 1159 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,240 DISCOVERED, EUROPEANS CAME HERE, 1160 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:21,600 ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SEA. 1161 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,400 WE HAVE A MINOR SCALE NON-VIRAL 1162 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,120 DISEASE LIKE LET'S SAY LYME 1163 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,320 DISEASE, IN OUR AREA WE HAVE 1164 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,480 DEER IN OUR BACK YARD, DEERS 1165 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:35,960 HAVE DEAR TICKS THAT CARRY THE 1166 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,760 LYME AGENT, AND WE GET PANDEMICS 1167 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,520 BUT LOCAL EPIDEMICS, 1168 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:42,720 LEGIONNAIRES DISEASE WITH 1169 00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:43,280 REFRIGERATION AND AIR 1170 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:44,840 CONDITIONING, THAT'S A CHANGE. 1171 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,760 WHAT HAPPENED WITH HIV? 1172 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,480 WITH HIV, WE HAVE VIRUS RESPECT 1173 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,200 IN THE RAINFOREST GOING FROM ONE 1174 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,400 PRIMATE TO MAN PERIODICALLY, WHY 1175 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,040 DID THIS BECOME EPIDEMIC AND 1176 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:56,400 THEN PANDEMIC? 1177 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:57,880 WE ASSUMED THERE WAS A GENETIC 1178 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,440 CHANGE IN ONE OF THE MONKEY 1179 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,400 VIRUSES KNOWN AS SIMIAN 1180 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,000 IMMUNODEFICIENCY VIRUS, SIV, BUT 1181 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,000 COLONIAL POWERS LEFT AFRICA AND 1182 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,280 PEOPLE MOVED FROM RAIN FORESTS 1183 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,040 IT TOWNS, THIS IS NOT SCIENCE 1184 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,800 NOW BUT SOCIAL HISTORY, THERE 1185 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,560 WAS INCREASE IN PROSTITUTION, 1186 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,520 VIRUS CONCENTRATED, AND THEN 1187 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,360 WHAT WAS LOCAL BECAME GLOBAL BY 1188 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,400 POST WORLD WAR CHANGES WE CAN 1189 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,880 DESCRIBE AS THE AIRPLANE, 1190 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:28,440 TOURISM, INCREASED SEXUAL 1191 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,120 PROMISCUITY, BLOOD GOING FROM 1192 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,040 ONE NATION TO ANOTHER, FOR 1193 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,440 EXAMPLE, JAPAN DOESN'T USE ITS 1194 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,080 OWN BLOOD, USES BLOOD FROM 1195 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,240 AMERICA AND EUROPE. 1196 00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:41,760 AND THE INSANE INTRAVENOUS DRUG 1197 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,400 ABUSE BECOMING ALMOST GLOBAL, 1198 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,880 COULD LEAD TO A FLUID BORNE 1199 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,160 INFECTION RATHER HARD TO 1200 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,480 TRANSMIT, BECOMING COMMONPLACE. 1201 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:56,320 THAT'S IN ANY CASE HOW I WOULD 1202 00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:57,400 VIEW IT. 1203 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,200 DOES THE ORIGIN MATTER THAT 1204 00:52:59,200 --> 00:52:59,720 MUCH? 1205 00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:00,600 NORMALLY WE'RE CURIOUS, WE WANT 1206 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:01,240 TO KNOW. 1207 00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:02,840 I'M ALL FOR IT. 1208 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:03,840 BUT I THINK WE'VE GONE A LITTLE 1209 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,520 FAR WITH THIS AND WE'VE PUSHED A 1210 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:08,840 BIT. 1211 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,760 I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS THAT 1212 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:10,960 MUCH. 1213 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,160 IT MATTERS A BIT BUT NOT MUCH. 1214 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:15,120 LET'S TAKE SARS-COV-2. 1215 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,160 WHAT IF IT WAS BORN IN THE 1216 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:17,640 MARKET? 1217 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,800 WE PROVED THAT. 1218 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:21,640 IT INVOLVED MAMMALIAN 1219 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,440 INTERMEDIATE, WE PROVED THAT. 1220 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,320 LET'S SAY IT WASN'T THE MARKET 1221 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,200 BUT DIRECTLY CAME FROM BAT TO 1222 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,000 MAN, OR BAT TO ANOTHER MAMMAL TO 1223 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:31,200 MAN. 1224 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,560 WELL, THAT WOULD BE USEFUL TO 1225 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:34,800 KNOWING WHAT MAMMAL BUT WE WOULD 1226 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,120 ALREADY KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT 1227 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,400 THE MARKETS, WE COULD ACT ON 1228 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:38,960 THAT NOW. 1229 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,440 AND WHAT IF IT'S A LAB LEAK? 1230 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,200 WE HAVE GOOD EVIDENCE, I WOULD 1231 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,480 SAY NOW, MOST SCIENTIFIC 1232 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:52,000 COMMUNITY WOULD AGREE, THIS IS 1233 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,040 NOT A LABORATORY-CREATED VIRUS. 1234 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,920 COULD IT BE A LAB LEAK? 1235 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,640 WE CAN ALMOST NEVER RULE THAT 1236 00:53:58,640 --> 00:53:59,760 OUT FROM ANY VIROLOGY LAB WITH 1237 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,480 ANY VIRUS. 1238 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:02,800 DO WE KNOW WHAT TO DO WITHOUT 1239 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,200 PROVING IT? 1240 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:05,400 WE DO. 1241 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,040 WE COULD, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE 1242 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,120 GREATER PRECAUTION ON WHO WORKS 1243 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,880 ON THESE THINGS, REQUIRE SPECIAL 1244 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:12,280 TRAINING. 1245 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,960 FOR EXAMPLE, GAIN OF FUNCTION 1246 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,560 RESEARCH IN WHICH YOU 1247 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:17,440 DELIBERATELY MANIPULATE VIRAL 1248 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,080 GENES SO THEY INFECT HUMAN CELLS 1249 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,240 BETTER SO THAT WE CAN BE BETTER 1250 00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:23,200 PREPARED FOR EPIDEMIC OR 1251 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,000 PANDEMIC BY SUCH A VIRUS IF IT 1252 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,000 MUTATES IN THAT DIRECTION WE 1253 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,160 COULD HAVE GREATER REVIEWS. 1254 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,560 RYE 1255 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:36,640 VIROLOGISTS ARE PRONE TO WANT TO 1256 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,040 GET FUNDED, YOU WANT ANSWERS, 1257 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:39,560 YOU WANT SCIENCE TO GO FORWARD. 1258 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:40,240 WE STILL DO. 1259 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,440 BUT WE MIGHT TAKE A LESSON FROM 1260 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,400 THE PAGES OF MOLECULAR BIOLOGY 1261 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,120 WHERE WHEN GENE CLONING CAME TO 1262 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,680 THE FOREFRONT THEY HAD MEETINGS 1263 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,160 IN CALIFORNIA CALLED ASILOMAR 1264 00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,040 CONFERENCES WHICH LED TO HAVING 1265 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,920 REVIEWS FOR GENE CLONING OF WHAT 1266 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,760 WAS ETHICALLY ADVISABLE, WHAT 1267 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,720 WAS THE RISK/BENEFIT VALUE HERE, 1268 00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:02,440 OR RATIO. 1269 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:03,560 AND THEY USED INTELLIGENT 1270 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,600 LAYPEOPLE TO BE ON SOME OF THE 1271 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:06,600 REVIEW BODIES. 1272 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,560 WE COULD DO THAT NOW IN VIROLOGY 1273 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,600 SO YOU DON'T JUST HAVE 1274 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:14,080 VIROLOGISTS' OPINION. 1275 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,560 MY VIEW IN THE END IS IT IS 1276 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,680 REALLY NOT WORTH PUSHING CHINA 1277 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,600 IN THIS, IN THE END WE'LL ONLY 1278 00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,000 SUCCEED IN PUSHING THEM FROM 1279 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,080 AWAY FROM COLLABORATION. 1280 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,640 I DON'T SEE WHAT THERE IS THEY 1281 00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:29,680 ARE REALLY GETTING. 1282 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,920 THIS IS ANOTHER GENERAL COMMENT 1283 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,040 THAT I'D LIKE TO MAKE. 1284 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,440 I WANT TO PICK UP WHAT ARE 1285 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:35,120 CONTROVERSIAL THINGS IN MY MIND 1286 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,280 IN A I DON'T AGREE WITH. 1287 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,320 I FREQUENTLY HEAR COMMENTATORS 1288 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:39,600 SAY WE'LL NEVER FORGET. 1289 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,560 WE WILL FORGET. 1290 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,400 THE LESSONS OF PRIOR VIRUS 1291 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,400 PANDEMICS SHOWED TO ME THAT 1292 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:46,560 ROUGHLY AFTER A GENERATION OR SO 1293 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,760 FROM THE TIME OF THE END OF THE 1294 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,160 PANDEMIC, END OF A PROBLEM, WE 1295 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:51,960 FORGET IN EVERY SINGLE CASE. 1296 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,560 I DON'T THINK THIS WILL BE ANY 1297 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:54,800 DIFFERENT. 1298 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,400 IN THIS STORY OF HIV, IT'S 1299 00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:58,800 PARTICULARLY RELEVANT. 1300 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,680 ACTUALLY IT'S NOT EVEN NOW OFTEN 1301 00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,200 CURRENTLY LISTED AS ONE OF THE 1302 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,000 RECENT PANDEMICS BELIEVE IT OR 1303 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:04,280 NOT. 1304 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,600 IT'S STILL ONGOING. 1305 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:07,800 BUT IT'S SOMETIMES FORGOTTEN, TO 1306 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,880 BE LISTED AS ONE OF THE PREVIOUS 1307 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:11,760 PANDEMICS. 1308 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,160 I'M GOING TO SHOW A COUPLE 1309 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,880 SLIDES ON HIV. 1310 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,520 LESSONS FROM HIV ARE -- IT'S A 1311 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,000 VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF VIRUS, 1312 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,800 BUT LET ME SAY THAT THE SLIDE 1313 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,200 BEGINS BY SAYING REMARKABLY BIAS 1314 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,600 OF RECENT PAST IN THE '70s, I 1315 00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:28,200 CAME TO THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES 1316 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,480 OF HEALTH IN THE '60s, IN MY 1317 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,200 MIND FROM WHERE I SAT THERE WAS 1318 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,680 A STRONG RESPECT FOR VIROLOGY, 1319 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,600 VIRUSES CAUSING SERIOUS DISEASE, 1320 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:44,280 FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF EPI AND 1321 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:45,960 PANDEMICS BUT BY 1970s, VERY 1322 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:46,200 DIFFERENT. 1323 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,560 I HEARD STATEMENTS LIKE LISTED 1324 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,160 ON THE TOP HERE, SERIOUS 1325 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:53,480 EPIDEMIC INFECTIOUS DISEASES ARE 1326 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,000 OVER IN THE INDUSTRIALIZED 1327 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:56,200 WORLD. 1328 00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,800 THEREFORE WE CAN FORGET ABOUT 1329 00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:58,000 IT. 1330 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,240 IT WAS SOMETHING YOU WOULDN'T 1331 00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:01,880 SAY TODAY BECAUSE INDEED WE AT 1332 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,440 LEAST ARE SUPPOSED TO CARE ABOUT 1333 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:04,840 OTHER NATIONS AND OTHER PARTS OF 1334 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:05,680 THE WORLD. 1335 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,920 BUT ALSO IT'S IN OUR INTEREST TO 1336 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,400 CARE, ISN'T IT? 1337 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:16,560 SO IT WAS SAID, OH, THOSE ARE 1338 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:17,640 PROBLEMS FOR THE TROPICAL 1339 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,600 DISEASE INSTITUTES ONLY AND 1340 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,600 FUNDING SHOULD GO TO 1341 00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:23,400 DEGENERATIVE DISEASES. 1342 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,000 HAVING NOT THE WISDOM TO THINK 1343 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,520 IT THROUGH SOMETIMES THE 1344 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:27,920 DEGENERATIVE DISEASES ARE CAUSED 1345 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,200 BY A MORE LET'S CALL THEM SLOW 1346 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:32,520 VIRUS, DIFFICULT TO FIND, 1347 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,560 DIFFICULT TO PROVE, LIKE THE 1348 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,320 RECENT EVIDENCE THAT A COMMON 1349 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:38,960 INFECTION OF HUMANKIND 1350 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,360 EPSTEIN-BARR OR HERPES VIRUS 1351 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,200 ABOUT 95% OF US HAVE MAY IN SOME 1352 00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,480 PEOPLE BE THE CAUSE OF MULTIPLE 1353 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:46,760 SCLEROSIS. 1354 00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,360 WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S 1355 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,000 SO LIMITED IN ITS HIT TO CAUSE 1356 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:51,920 THE DISEASE. 1357 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:52,960 THAT'S WHERE WE ARE. 1358 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,600 THE SECOND WAS THAT A CERTAIN 1359 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,360 CATEGORY OF VIRUSES LIKE WHAT IS 1360 00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,000 THE AIDS VIRUS, RETROVIRUS, 1361 00:57:59,000 --> 00:57:59,800 DON'T INFECT HUMANS. 1362 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:01,080 THERE WERE MANY REASONS. 1363 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,720 THIS WAS THE '70s, NOT A GOOD 1364 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,640 TIME FOR SOME OF US TO BE 1365 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,160 WORKING AND LOOKING FOR HUMAN 1366 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:09,480 RETROVIRUSES, AND THERE'S 1367 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,000 STRONG -- WELL, PROOF, NOT 1368 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,480 STRONG EVIDENCE, PROOF FOR THE 1369 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,080 STATEMENT THAT IT WAS FELT THAT 1370 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,400 NO VIRUSES CAUSED CANCER, NO 1371 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:18,240 INFECTION CAUSES CANCER, OR 1372 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,360 PLAYS A ROLE IN CANCER IN MAN. 1373 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,080 IT WAS A RATHER FORMAL 1374 00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,040 CONCLUSION IN A 1974 MEETING ON 1375 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,360 THE ORIGINS OF HUMAN CANCER AT 1376 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,760 COLD SPRING HARBOR LABORATORIES. 1377 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,400 BY THE EARLY '80s, THESE 1378 00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:34,560 PREJUDICES WERE OVERCOME. 1379 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:35,600 VIRUSES ARE NOW KNOWN TO BE 1380 00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,360 INVOLVED IN THE CAUSE OR AT 1381 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,320 LEAST STAGE OF THE ORIGIN OF A 1382 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,480 BIT OVER 20% OF HUMAN CANCERS. 1383 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:43,200 RETROVIRUSES WERE INDEED 1384 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,880 DISCOVERED IN MAN AND SHOWN TO 1385 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,800 CAUSE SERIOUS DISEASE, LOOK AT 1386 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,920 BULLET 3, AIDS APPEARED CAUSED 1387 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:51,880 BY ANOTHER RETROVIRUS, NOW 1388 00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,400 ORIGINALLY I WAS THINKING OF 1389 00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,040 TALKING ABOUT HOW THESE ADVANCES 1390 00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:55,320 OCCURRED. 1391 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,400 BUT THERE IS NOT TIME FOR THAT. 1392 00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,960 SO I'M GOING TO GO JUST USE THIS 1393 00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:08,080 AS WHAT'S CALLED SEDGEWAY. 1394 00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:14,200 THE BLOOD TEST WAS A KEY ADVANCE 1395 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:15,600 PREVENTING BLOOD TRANSFUSION 1396 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,200 INFECTION AND CONSEQUENT 1397 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:18,000 INFECTIONS, ALLOWED EPIDEMIC TO 1398 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,000 BE FOLLOWED BECAUSE WE HAD A 1399 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,400 TEST, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO WAIT 1400 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,800 FOR TEN YEARS OR FIVE YEARS OR 1401 00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,920 EIGHT YEARS FOR THE PERSON TO 1402 00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,560 DEVELOP AIDS, TO KNOW HOW THIS 1403 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:27,480 THING WAS SPREADING. 1404 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:32,040 WE COULD TELL WITHIN TWO WEEKS 1405 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,960 WHEN ANTIBODIES WOULD APPEAR. 1406 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,600 CELL CULTURE SYSTEM ALLOWED 1407 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:37,560 SCREENING, WHEN THERAPY BECAME 1408 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,960 AVAILABLE BY THE BLOOD TEST WE 1409 00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,240 COULD DETERMINE WHO TO TREATMENT 1410 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,320 AS WELL AS BLOCK MOTHER-TO-CHILD 1411 00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:44,840 TRANSMISSION. 1412 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,240 IT WAS ALSO CRITICAL FOR MY 1413 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,400 COLLEAGUES AND MYSELF TO VERIFY 1414 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,560 HIV IS THE CAUSE OF AIDS BECAUSE 1415 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,160 VIRUS ISOLATION WAS VERY TRICKY, 1416 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:53,800 VERY DIFFICULT, PATIENTS HAD 1417 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,400 HAVE YOU OF FEW T CELLS FROM 1418 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,200 WHICH THE VIRUS HAD TO BE 1419 00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:57,960 OBTAINED. 1420 00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,800 IT WAS A REAL KIND OF NIGHTMARE. 1421 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,760 BLOOD TEST ALLOWED VERIFICATION, 1422 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,840 PEOPLE COULD TEST ALL OVER THE 1423 01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,240 WORLD AND VERIFICATION CAME 1424 01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,680 RATHER EASILY. 1425 01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,720 SO WE SWITCHED BACK TO 1426 01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,040 SARS-COV-2, COVID, AROUND I 1427 01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,800 WOULD SAY WE'RE GOING TO AGAIN 1428 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,840 IT MUST INVOLVE THE WORLD, 1429 01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:20,840 COMPLEXITIES OF THERAPY, BECAUSE 1430 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,000 UNLIKE AIDS VIRUS ALSO STAY 1431 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,000 AROUND GIVING YOU OPPORTUNITY TO 1432 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,480 HAVE DRUG THERAPY THAT TARGETS 1433 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:27,160 THE VIRUS. 1434 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:33,600 QUICK IN THE EARLY PHASE WHEN 1435 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:35,440 YOU NEED ANTI-VIRAL THERAPY. 1436 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:40,080 YOU CAN DO IT RAPIDLY. 1437 01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:40,960 WE HAVE PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL MAJOR 1438 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,120 VACCINES BUT THEY ARE NOT 1439 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,640 AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY. 1440 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,080 ALSO IT'S IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE 1441 01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:47,880 THAT THEY DON'T LAST LONG. 1442 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:48,720 FIVE TO SIX MONTHS. 1443 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:50,680 YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT. 1444 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:51,920 THAT'S KEY POINT. 1445 01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,400 THEY DON'T LAST LONG. 1446 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,720 AND THAT WAS KINDLY PREDICTABLE 1447 01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,080 FROM THE GENOME PUBLISHED IN 1448 01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,880 2020, JANUARY 10, BY THE 1449 01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:00,120 CHINESE. 1450 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,400 YOU COULD PREDICT THIS WOULD BE 1451 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:01,960 THE CASE. 1452 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,120 THAT'S A PROBLEM YOU GOT TO KEEP 1453 01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:05,400 BOOSTING. 1454 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,760 IS THERE A ROLE FOR INNATE 1455 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,640 IMMUNE STIMULATION? 1456 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,120 BY REPURPOSING OLD VACCINES THAT 1457 01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,040 ARE BROADLY REACTIVE AND MIGHT 1458 01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:14,240 HELP? 1459 01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,000 IT'S TIME TO FOCUS IN THAT WAY 1460 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,240 FOR A MINUTE BUT FIRST WHAT 1461 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:22,800 HAPPENED TO DIAGNOSTICS? 1462 01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:23,600 ACCURATE AND SENSITIVE 1463 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,600 DIAGNOSTICS ARE KEY TOO ANY 1464 01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,200 PANDEMIC OR EPIDEMIC, THE 1465 01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,000 REASONS ARE OBVIOUS, OFTEN 1466 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,560 UNDERAPPRECIATED, AND WE DID 1467 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,920 RATHER POORLY IN THE EARLY DAYS 1468 01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:37,200 OF THE CURRENT SARS CORONAVIRUS 1469 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:38,400 PANDEMIC. 1470 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:38,960 WHY? 1471 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:40,200 WELL, NUMBER ONE, THERE WASN'T 1472 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,440 ANY RESPONSIBLE GROUP OR GROUPS. 1473 01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,560 IT HAS BEEN SAID THIS WAS A 1474 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,400 PROBLEM FOR CDC TO SOLVE. 1475 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:47,800 BUT THAT'S REALLY NOT TRUE. 1476 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,280 IT'S NOT IN CDC'S ORDERS TO GO 1477 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,720 GET BLOOD TESTS OR PARTICULAR 1478 01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,880 TESTS THOUGH THEY ARE INTERESTED 1479 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,640 EVERY TIME AND TRY. 1480 01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:58,320 THE HIV TEST WAS NOT DEVELOPED 1481 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,600 AT CDC BUT IS DEVELOPED IN MY 1482 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,800 LAB AT NIH. 1483 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,320 SO NIH SOMETIMES CONTRIBUTES TO 1484 01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:05,680 TESTING. 1485 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,400 I THINK WE JUST DIDN'T GET 1486 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:08,240 INVOLVED BECAUSE PEOPLE THOUGHT 1487 01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:09,000 IT WAS EASY. 1488 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,640 THERE'S A LOT OF VIRUS, IT'S 1489 01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:12,200 OBVIOUS. 1490 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,040 YOU CAN MAKE DIAGNOSTIC TEST 1491 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:14,440 PRETTY FAST. 1492 01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,200 SO I THINK IT WAS A FAILURE OF 1493 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,800 ALL OF US THAT WE DIDN'T GET 1494 01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:20,040 INVOLVED. 1495 01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,120 MY INSTITUTE DIDN'T GET 1496 01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:23,600 INVOLVED. 1497 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,000 THERE'S ALSO CROSS-REACTIONS 1498 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,920 WITH RATHER HARMLESS SEASONAL 1499 01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,040 CORONAVIRUSES THAT MADE IT MORE 1500 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,800 DIFFICULT AT THE BEGINNING. 1501 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:32,600 THERE'S INSUFFICIENT GLOBAL 1502 01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:32,920 COOPERATION. 1503 01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,360 PERHAPS, PERHAPS, THERE WAS ALSO 1504 01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,720 SOME FEAR OF THIS VIRUS LEADING 1505 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:38,480 PEOPLE, SCIENTISTS, MEDICAL 1506 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,480 SCIENTISTS, MAYBE, AT THE 1507 01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:43,200 BEGINNING, TO STAY AWAY. 1508 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,720 SO, HERE ARE SOME SPECIFICS, I 1509 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,160 WANT TO BE SURE THAT I LEAVE YOU 1510 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,880 WITH BEFORE WE GO FURTHER TO 1511 01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:51,240 INNATE IMMUNITY. 1512 01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:55,120 THIS IS A VIRUS AREAS TO FIND, 1513 01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:56,360 SELF-EVIDENT, NEEDS TO INVOLVE 1514 01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:57,280 THE WORLD. 1515 01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:58,520 IT'S ESSENTIAL IN MY MIND FOR 1516 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,240 CHINA, U.S. AND EUROPE, I 1517 01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:05,600 INCLUDE RUSSIA, TO HAVE CLOSE 1518 01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:05,960 COLLABORATION. 1519 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,240 KNOWING THE ORIGIN IS NOT 1520 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:08,800 CRITICAL AND CAN BE HARMFUL TO 1521 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,640 PUSH IT TOO FAR. 1522 01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:13,280 WE DISCUSSED DIAGNOSTICS 1523 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,600 ALREADY, COMPLEXITY OF THERAPY, 1524 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:16,520 THE VACCINES, VARIANTS. 1525 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,560 THEY ARE LIKELY TO BE COVERED, 1526 01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,920 MOST VARIANTS ARE LIKELY TO BE 1527 01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,360 COVERED BY CURRENT VACCINE BUT 1528 01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:24,920 THE LIMITED AVAILABILITY EVEN 1529 01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,360 NOW FOR THE WORLD. 1530 01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:31,080 NOW WE COME TO IS THERE A ROLE 1531 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,080 FOR STIMULATING INNATE IMMUNITY? 1532 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,320 WHAT ARE ITS BENEFITS? 1533 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,600 WHAT ARE ITS LIMITS? 1534 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,480 HOW CAN WE STIMULATE IT? 1535 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,080 WE MIGHT FIND DRUGS TO DO IT, 1536 01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,400 THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE MORE 1537 01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:43,800 ACCEPTABLE. 1538 01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:45,480 LET'S SAY THE U.S. ARMY TO HAVE 1539 01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:49,640 A PILL IN THE POCKET OF A 1540 01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,600 SOLDIER GOING TO A NEW AREA, WE 1541 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:57,840 KNOW HOW TO DO IT NOW WITH OLD 1542 01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:58,120 VACCINES. 1543 01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:02,880 MEASLES, MUMPS, RUBELLA, ORAL 1544 01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,840 POLIO, NOT THE DEAD ONE OF SALK, 1545 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:06,280 DOESN'T WORK WELL. 1546 01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:13,160 LIVE SHINGLES,IVE , INTRANASAL, 1547 01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,360 THEY WILL ALL WORK, NOT TO THE 1548 01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:20,480 EXTENT THE LIVES ONES DO. 1549 01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,000 YELLOW FEVER, ROTAVIRUSES, BCG, 1550 01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,400 WHICH IS FOR TUBERCULOSIS, BUT 1551 01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,000 REPURPOSED FOR NEW RESPIRATORY 1552 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,320 EPIDEMIC, OR PANDEMIC. 1553 01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,680 WHAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF INNATE 1554 01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,320 IMMUNITY IN CONTROLLING SARS 1555 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:36,560 CORONAVIRUS 2? 1556 01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:37,400 IT'S IMPORTANT, PERIOD, AS 1557 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,400 YOU'LL SEE IN A MOMENT FROM MY 1558 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:45,920 SLIDE, 95% OF ALL -- WELL, ALL 1559 01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,800 CREATURES HAVE INNATE IMMUNITY, 1560 01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:50,840 AND 95% HAVE ONLY INNATE 1561 01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:51,480 IMMUNITY. 1562 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,200 IT'S ONLY WE VERTEBRATES THAT 1563 01:04:54,200 --> 01:05:00,800 EVOLVE ADAPTIVE IMMUNE RESPONSE. 1564 01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,880 95% OF LIVING ORGANISMS HAVE 1565 01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:05,600 INNATE MECHANISMS AND GET 1566 01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:06,040 PROTECTED. 1567 01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,400 LET'S THINK HOW MANY, IF YOU'RE 1568 01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,800 OVER 20 OR 30 YEARS OLD, YOU 1569 01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,080 KNOW YOU'VE HAD INFECTIONS THAT 1570 01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:12,400 WENT NOWHERE. 1571 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,880 ONE DAY YOU WOKE UP, WITH A 1572 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:16,960 SMALL HEADACHE, MAYBE FATIGUE. 1573 01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,120 OR MAYBE JUST HAD A CHILL OR 1574 01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:20,280 TWO. 1575 01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,400 AND POSSIBLY A LOW GRADE FEVER, 1576 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:23,080 USUALLY NOT. 1577 01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:24,840 NEXT DAY YOU WERE BETTER. 1578 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,360 YOU WERE INFECTED BY A VIRUS. 1579 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:28,880 HOW DID IT GET BETTER? 1580 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,200 DID THE VIRUS RUN OUT OF CELLS 1581 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:30,600 TO INFECT? 1582 01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:31,720 OF COURSE NOT. 1583 01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,960 THE VIRUS DECIDED TO GO AWAY? 1584 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:35,000 OF COURSE NOT. 1585 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,360 IT'S YOUR INNATE IMMUNE SYSTEM. 1586 01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,960 IT TOOK IT AWAY. 1587 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,440 THAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU OVER 1588 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,240 AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. 1589 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:43,200 INNATE IMMUNITY DOESN'T PROTECT 1590 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,080 AGAINST DISEASE SO MUCH, IT 1591 01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:47,240 PREVENTS COMPLETELY AGAINST 1592 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:47,520 INFECTION. 1593 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,640 I SAID I LIKE TO USE THE ANALOGY 1594 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,680 OF THE END OF THE WESTERN ROMAN 1595 01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:52,920 EMPIRE. 1596 01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,200 IT WENT AROUND IN THE MID-400s 1597 01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:00,200 OR SO, ROMANS UNDER SIEGE, AT 1598 01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,880 THE GATE YOU HAD PREMIER 1599 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,520 LEGIONNAIRES TO BLOCK ENTRY. 1600 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:07,440 WHEN THEY BREAK THROUGH, 1601 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:08,840 SECONDARY AUXILIARY AND OTHER 1602 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,200 LEGIONNAIRES ARE GOING TO COME 1603 01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:11,800 INTO THE FRAY. 1604 01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:12,680 THAT'S THE ADAPTIVE IMMUNE 1605 01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:13,000 SYSTEM. 1606 01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,080 BUT AT THE BEGINNING IT'S ALL 1607 01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,960 THE INNATE IMMUNE SYSTEM THAT 1608 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:17,400 BLOCKS INFECTION. 1609 01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:18,520 I WAS STRUCK BY SEVERAL THINGS 1610 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,320 IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC 1611 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,800 THAT SAID TO ME, IT'S EXTREMELY 1612 01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:25,800 IMPORTANT FOR THIS CORONAVIRUS. 1613 01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,200 FIRST OF ALL I BEGAN LEARNING 1614 01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:33,000 FROM MY COLLEAGUE AT THE FDA, A 1615 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,400 RUSSIAN SCIENTIST, WHOSE PARENTS 1616 01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,640 WERE WELL KNOWN RUSSIAN 1617 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:40,920 VIROLOGISTS, HIS NAME IS 1618 01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,640 CONSTANTINE SHUMIKO, HIS PARENTS 1619 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,120 WORLD WITH ALBERT SABIN WITH THE 1620 01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,360 FIRST POLIO TRIALS OF THE LIVE 1621 01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:49,320 VACCINE IN RUSSIA. 1622 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,160 THAT WAS THE '50s. 1623 01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,000 IN THE '70s, HIS MOTHER 1624 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,840 OBSERVED IN ANALYZING DATA THAT 1625 01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,040 PARTICULAR YEAR THAT PEOPLE WHO 1626 01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,240 WERE JUST VACCINATED WITH THE 1627 01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,640 LIVE POLIO VIRUS WERE PROTECTED 1628 01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:05,520 AGAINST INFLUENZA AT LEAST 1629 01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,160 CORRELATING BETTER THAN WITH THE 1630 01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:08,240 FLU VACCINE. 1631 01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:10,320 SO THEY MADE NOTE AND THEY FOUND 1632 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:16,000 OUT THERE'S INDEED A LITERATURE, 1633 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,720 SCATTERED, NEVER ORGANIZED OR 1634 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:20,160 FUNDED, UNDERSTUDIED, HEAVY IN 1635 01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,000 LITERATURE AND IT'S COME BACK 1636 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:22,200 TODAY. 1637 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:23,640 I WAS AWARE OF THAT. 1638 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,400 I STARTED THINKING WITH THIS 1639 01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:27,920 PANDEMIC, BECAUSE I REALIZED AND 1640 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:34,600 READ A BOOK ON THE IMMUNOLOGY. 1641 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,800 BATS ARE HARBORING CORONAVIRUS, 1642 01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:46,080 THEY LIVE WITH IT, HOW DO THEY 1643 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:47,240 HOLD IT IN CHECK? 1644 01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:48,960 NOT BY ANTIBODIES OR ADAPTIVE 1645 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,400 IMMUNE SYSTEM. 1646 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:54,800 THEY HAVE A CONSTANT WE CALL IT 1647 01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:55,920 CONSTITUATIVE LEVEL OF INNATE 1648 01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,000 IMMUNE RESPONSE. 1649 01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,400 BY HAVING THE NATURAL KILLER 1650 01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,040 CELLS ACTIVATED AT LOW LEVEL AND 1651 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:01,280 PRESENT. 1652 01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,120 THIS IS PART OF THE INNATE 1653 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:04,560 IMMUNE SYSTEM. 1654 01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:06,480 AS WELL AS MOLECULE INTERFERON, 1655 01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,800 PRESENT AT LOW LEVEL, TOO HIGH, 1656 01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:11,400 YOU'LL GET INFLAMMATION AND MANY 1657 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,760 OTHER PROBLEMS. 1658 01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:14,240 IT'S A LOW LEVEL. 1659 01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:18,240 AND THAT LEADS THEM TO CONTROL. 1660 01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,800 THEN I NOTICED GENETIC 1661 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:23,560 INFORMATION IN THE SARS 1662 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,920 CORONAVIRUS IS OVERLY CHOCK FULL 1663 01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:28,480 OF GENETIC SEQUENCES THAT TARGET 1664 01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:30,200 SPECIFICALLY INNATE IMMUNITY. 1665 01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:33,680 WHAT WE CALL THE GENE 1666 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,720 NON-STRUCTURAL PROTEIN 1, 1667 01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,080 NON-STRUCTURAL PROTEIN AND 14 1668 01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,400 HAVE THE CAPACITY OF INTERFERING 1669 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:41,600 WITH INNATE IMMUNITY. 1670 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,400 THAT SAID TO ME THIS VIRUS IS 1671 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,000 VERY MUCH FRIGHTENED BY INNATE 1672 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:45,240 IMMUNITY. 1673 01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:49,200 BUT IT'S GOT TO BE THERE IN 1674 01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:49,440 ADVANCE. 1675 01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:53,280 CLINICALLY, BEGINNING WITH THE 1676 01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,880 WORK AT STANFORD, THERE'S A 1677 01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,120 BETTER PROGNOSIS CORRELATES 1678 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:00,960 MAINLY WITH INNATE IMMUNITY 1679 01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,440 PARAMETERS, THAT'S BEEN SEEN 1680 01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:04,760 OVER AND OVER. 1681 01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,040 NOW, DURABILITY IS SAID TO BE 1682 01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,600 THE MAIN ADVANTAGE OF THE 1683 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,680 CONVENTIONAL ADAPTIVE IMMUNE 1684 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,200 STIMULATING VACCINES, SPECIFIC 1685 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:17,360 VACCINES LIKE MEASLES, POLIO, 1686 01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,840 CURRENT SARS-COV-2 MESSENGER RNA 1687 01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:22,720 VACCINES, ET CETERA. 1688 01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:23,880 CLASSICAL APPROACH WITH 1689 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,840 SARS-COV-2 DOES NOT YIELD 1690 01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,800 ANTIBODIES THAT ARE DURABLE. 1691 01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,920 AND WHAT ABOUT THE DURABILITY OF 1692 01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:32,720 THE INNATE IMMUNE RESPONSE? 1693 01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,640 I HAVE TO TELL YOU I'LL COME 1694 01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,320 BACK IN THE NEXT SLIDE I THINK, 1695 01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:42,000 WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF 1696 01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,840 DATA ON I AT LEAST A MONTH. 1697 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:48,800 EVIDENCE FROM BCG FROM WORK OF A 1698 01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:50,400 ROMANIAN SCIENTISTS IN HOLLAND, 1699 01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,480 WITH BCG HE MEASURED IT LAST THE 1700 01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:54,960 SIX MONTHS. 1701 01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:59,080 YOU'LL NEVER GET LIFETIME LIKE 1702 01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:01,400 WITH POLIO OR SMALLPOX OR 1703 01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:02,920 MEASLES, ET CETERA. 1704 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,200 BUT THERE ARE PLACES AND TIME AS 1705 01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,160 I'LL TRY TO ARGUE SOON. 1706 01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,320 THERE'S CLINICAL EVIDENCE HIGHER 1707 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,200 LEVELS OF INTERFERON, IFN, 1708 01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:16,360 CORRELATE WITH BETTER PROGNOSIS. 1709 01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,080 NOW THERE ARE SEVERAL 1710 01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,000 CORRELATIVE POSITIVE CLINICAL 1711 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,600 STUDIES, IN MAN, THAT ARE 1712 01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,680 SCATTERED HERE AND THERE, 1713 01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:28,000 RUSSIAN STUDY IN INDIA, IN 1714 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,320 BRAZIL, MEXICO, ALSO ANIMAL 1715 01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:34,560 STUDIES, FOR EXAMPLE, AT NIH, BY 1716 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:36,840 DR. SHEER AND COLLEAGUES WITH 1717 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:38,720 VCG, A GROUP AT UCSF AND 1718 01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,800 STANFORD THAT PUBLISHED ON USING 1719 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:43,320 ORAL POLIO VIRUS AGAIN, THIS 1720 01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,920 TIME A MUTATED FORM THAT THEY 1721 01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,240 GAVE A SPECIAL ABBREVIATION TO 1722 01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:51,280 SO IT ONLY INFECTS CELLS LIKE IN 1723 01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,800 THE GUT AND NOT ABLE TO INFECT 1724 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:55,560 ANYMORE. 1725 01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,200 AND THEY SHOWED DRAMATIC 1726 01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:58,920 PROTECTION AGAINST SARS-COV-2, 1727 01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:02,400 AS WELL AS BEING ABLE TO USE IT 1728 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:02,800 THERAPEUTICALLY. 1729 01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:07,000 SO, IF YOU USE IT EARLY ON. 1730 01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:11,200 SO, THESE STUDIES, TO ME, ARGUE 1731 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,280 RATHER STRONGLY WE BETTER PAY 1732 01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:13,600 MORE ATTENTION TO INNATE 1733 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:13,840 IMMUNITY. 1734 01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,400 LET'S LOOK AT SOME PROPERTIES OF 1735 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:17,680 INNATE IMMUNITY CONTRASTED TO 1736 01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:18,800 THE ADAPTIVE IMMUNE SYSTEM. 1737 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:23,760 I THINK IF YOU DROP DOWN TO THE 1738 01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:25,400 FIRST ONE IN RED, WHEN YOU 1739 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:26,360 DEVELOP ANTIBODIES FOR THE FIRST 1740 01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,400 TIME WHEN YOU'RE EXPOSED TO A 1741 01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,520 NEW VACCINE, IT TAKES WEEKS TO 1742 01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,800 MAKE THE ANTIBODIES, TWO, THREE 1743 01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:33,840 WEEKS. 1744 01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,720 TO GET REAL IMMUNE RESPONSE, 1745 01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:37,520 IT'S WEEKS. 1746 01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:38,800 IT TAKES USUALLY MORE THAN THE 1747 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,000 TWO YEARS IT TOOK THIS TIME TO 1748 01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:42,200 DEVELOP THE VACCINE. 1749 01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:43,520 IT AVERAGES MORE LIKE FOUR TO 1750 01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:44,480 FIVE YEARS. 1751 01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:45,800 AS YOU KNOW, IN SOME PARTS OF 1752 01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,360 THE WORLD WE STILL DON'T HAVE 1753 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:48,840 IT. 1754 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:53,480 SO, WHAT DO YOU DO? 1755 01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:55,560 INNATE IMMUNE VACCINES, INNATE 1756 01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:56,760 IMMUNE STIMULATION, OCCURS 1757 01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:57,120 WITHIN AN HOUR. 1758 01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:01,440 SO IF I GO TO MY DRUG STORE AND 1759 01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:03,440 GET MMR, MEASLES, MUMPS, 1760 01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:05,400 RUBELLA, ONE HOUR LATER I'LL 1761 01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:06,400 HAVE INNATE IMMUNE STIMULATION 1762 01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,600 LIKELY LASTING AT LEAST A MONTH. 1763 01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:12,840 AND IT WILL BE IN MY VIEW 1764 01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:13,120 EFFECTIVE. 1765 01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:14,960 THE ADAPTIVE IMMUNE SYSTEM COMES 1766 01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:16,600 FROM THE LYMPHOID SYSTEM. 1767 01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:21,040 IT INVOLVES CELLS WE CALL B 1768 01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:24,160 CELLS, B LYMPHOCYTES, T CELLS, 1769 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,120 INCLUDES ANTIBODIES. 1770 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:27,560 ANTIBODIES. 1771 01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:33,000 ALSO T CELLS THAT KILL 1772 01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:33,440 SPECIFICALLY. 1773 01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:36,840 SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TURN THEIR 1774 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:38,640 MICROPHONE OFF BECAUSE YOU'RE 1775 01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:38,960 INTERFERING. 1776 01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,760 INNATE IMMUNITY IS COMING FROM 1777 01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,720 MYELOID CELLS, MYELOID CELLS 1778 01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,800 FROM THE BONE MARROW, AND LOCAL, 1779 01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,400 AND THEY LEAD TO MAINLY BUT NOT 1780 01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,920 SOLELY BY A LONG SHOT 1781 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:55,440 INTERFERON, INTERFERONS, AND 1782 01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:57,080 NATURAL KILLER CELLS. 1783 01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:00,000 I'VE MENTIONED THAT THEY ARE 1784 01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,160 PRESENT IN THE ADAPTIVE IMMUNE 1785 01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,240 SYSTEM, IT'S ONLY IN 1786 01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:08,400 INVERTEBRATES 95% OF SPECIES 1787 01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:10,080 HAVE ONLY INNATE IMMUNITY. 1788 01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:11,800 AND WE TALKED ABOUT DURABILITY 1789 01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:12,160 ALREADY. 1790 01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,000 THE SAFETY OF A NEW VACCINE IS 1791 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,840 USUALLY UNKNOWN AND VARIABLE, WE 1792 01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,800 ALREADY KNOW THE USE OF OLD 1793 01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,200 VACCINES, WE KNOW WHAT SAFETY 1794 01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:23,000 THEY HAVE. 1795 01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,760 COST, A NEW VACCINE IS 1796 01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:27,400 RELATIVELY COSTLY. 1797 01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:32,080 REPURPOSEING OLD VACCINES IS 1798 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:32,480 VERY INEXPENSIVE. 1799 01:13:32,480 --> 01:13:33,640 ORAL POLIO 12 CENTS A PILL. 1800 01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,600 MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO USE IT SO 1801 01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,600 IF YOU GO TO MMR PROBABLY A FEW 1802 01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:39,040 DOLLARS. 1803 01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,040 FUNDING FOR RESEARCH AND 1804 01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:43,600 DEVELOPMENT OF ADAPTIVE IS OF 1805 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:49,080 IMMUNITY IS IN THE BILLIONS, 1806 01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:49,960 VERY POORLY STUDIED, THESE ARE 1807 01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,440 THE OPPORTUNITIES IN MY MIND FOR 1808 01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:54,840 USING BROAD STIMULATING INNATE 1809 01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:55,400 IMMUNE STIMULATING VACCINES. 1810 01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:58,320 AT THE BEGINNING OF ANY NEW 1811 01:13:58,320 --> 01:13:59,240 EPIDEMIC OR PANDEMIC, TO FILL IN 1812 01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:00,800 THE GAP OF TIME BETWEEN 1813 01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:05,440 APPEARANCE OF THE NEW EPIDEMIC 1814 01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:09,200 AND DEVELOPING DURABLE SPECIFIC 1815 01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:09,560 VACCINE. 1816 01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,480 FOR COUNTRIES THAT CANNOT GAIN 1817 01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:13,200 ACCESS FOR EVEN LONGER PERIODS 1818 01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:16,600 OF TIME, COSTS CAN BE LOW. 1819 01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,120 THIS IS SOMETHING TO THINK OF 1820 01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:19,360 NOW. 1821 01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,360 IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH 1822 01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,960 DURABILITY OF THE SPECIFIC 1823 01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:25,720 VACCINE, LIKE THIS ONE LASTS SIX 1824 01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,200 MONTHS, I WOULD SAY MAX, OR IF 1825 01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:30,800 THAT VACCINE IS UNABLE TO HANDLE 1826 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:32,880 SOME VARIANTS THAT EMERGE, THINK 1827 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,520 OF THIS APPROACH. 1828 01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:36,280 FINALLY, WHAT ABOUT PUTTING THEM 1829 01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:36,640 TOGETHER? 1830 01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:39,520 SOME PEOPLE THINK MAYBE THE 1831 01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,280 INNATE IMMUNE STIMULATION WOULD 1832 01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:43,160 INHIBIT DEVELOPMENT OF THE 1833 01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:46,520 SPECIFIC VACCINES WORKING AS 1834 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:47,320 WELL. 1835 01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:48,960 THE OPPOSITE IS LIKELY TRUE, 1836 01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,240 NOTHING TO SUGGEST THE OPPOSITE. 1837 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,800 YOU LIKELY MAKE THE CURRENT 1838 01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,480 VACCINES WORK EVEN BETTER. 1839 01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:57,600 THE PROBLEMS GOING FORWARD WITH 1840 01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:58,480 INNATE STIMULATING OLD VACCINES 1841 01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:00,360 I THINK MOST IMPORTANT IS THE 1842 01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,560 LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AMONG 1843 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,040 POPULATION, EVEN SCIENTISTS. 1844 01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,200 INCLUDING UNTIL THIS EPIDEMIC 1845 01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:08,280 MYSELF. 1846 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,400 VERY LITTLE RESEARCH SUPPORT. 1847 01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:11,720 TOO IS FEAR, THIS MAY CAUSE 1848 01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,400 CONFUSION IN THE PUBLIC, AND 1849 01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:15,120 THAT I UNDERSTAND. 1850 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,760 AND LEAVE TO GREATER VACCINATION 1851 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,680 RESISTANCE, LOOK WHAT'S GOING ON 1852 01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:21,000 NOW. 1853 01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,440 DURABILITY. 1854 01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:23,640 LIKELY A FEW MONTHS. 1855 01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,040 MAYBE BETTER THAN WE BELIEVE. 1856 01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:28,520 UNJUSTIFIED FEAR OF SIDE 1857 01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,240 EFFECTS, FIFTH IS CONCERNS THEY 1858 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,080 MAY INTERFERE WITH SPECIFIC 1859 01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:33,600 VACCINES, AS I MENTIONED. 1860 01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,600 BUT THAT I THINK IS THE OPPOSITE 1861 01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:38,480 WOULD BE TRUE. 1862 01:15:38,480 --> 01:15:40,320 LAST, NO MARKET VALUE. 1863 01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:44,160 VERY INEXPENSIVE, YOU CAN'T 1864 01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:45,160 PATENT IT. 1865 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,400 THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY. 1866 01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,440 I THINK I -- I KNOW I FINISHED 1867 01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:52,920 IN TIME. 1868 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:53,280 MAYBE TOO EARLY. 1869 01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,080 I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DIDN'T GET 1870 01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,160 YOUR MONEY'S WORTH, I BLAME MY 1871 01:15:57,160 --> 01:15:58,520 FRIEND WIN BECAUSE HE MADE ME 1872 01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,200 TAKE OUT A LOT OF SLIDES. 1873 01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:01,560 [LAUGHTER] 1874 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:02,720 NO, I THINK IT WAS BETTER THIS 1875 01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:27,600 WAY, MORE TIME FOR DISCUSSION. 1876 01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,080 I WAS HAPPY TO FOLLOW LUBA. 1877 01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:36,000 I DIDN'T KNOW ALL THOSE DETAILS. 1878 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:43,240 >> THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT 1879 01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,080 AUTOIMMUNITY. 1880 01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:48,280 QUESTION NUMBER ONE, DID 1881 01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,600 METCHNIKOFF HAVE IDEA OF IMMUNE 1882 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,840 SYSTEM TURNING ON ITS HOST, I 1883 01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,720 HAVEN'T SEEN ANY MENTION IN HIS 1884 01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:57,800 WORK ABOUT AUTOIMMUNITY. 1885 01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,200 HE DID TALK ABOUT INAPPROPRIATE 1886 01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,760 ROLE OF PHAGOCYTES IN AGING BUT 1887 01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:07,760 THIS WAS -- YOU KNOW, HE 1888 01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:12,360 BELIEVED THEY CAUSED ATROPHY BUT 1889 01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:14,600 NOT AUTOIMMUNITY. 1890 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,760 >> LUBA, THERE A QUESTION ASKED, 1891 01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,360 FROM THE MANY DISCOVERIES MADE 1892 01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:20,360 BY METCHNIKOFF, WHAT DO YOU 1893 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:29,840 THINK WAS THE MOST EXCITING AND 1894 01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:30,720 IMPORTANT TO HIM? 1895 01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:32,360 >> OH, WELL, I THINK 1896 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:34,520 PHAGOCYTOSIS WAS HIS BABY, FOR 1897 01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,640 SURE. 1898 01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:42,280 YOU KNOW, I THINK THE VERY FIRST 1899 01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:46,600 DISCOVERY, THE FACT THAT HE WON 1900 01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:51,680 THE NOBEL NOBEL PRIZE WROTE 1901 01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,360 ABOUT THE EXPECT WITH THE 1902 01:17:55,360 --> 01:18:00,880 STARFISH LARVA, MY GUESS IS THIS 1903 01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:01,440 WAS HIS FAVORITE. 1904 01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:02,800 >> IT WAS ASKED WHETHER -- I 1905 01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:10,320 GUESS YOU ANSWERED THIS PARTLY 1906 01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,920 BUT THE QUESTION WAS IS THE FACT 1907 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:18,400 THAT METCHNIKOFF WAS A BIOLOGIST 1908 01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:20,520 AND DEALING WITH ORGANISMS 1909 01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,000 NON-VERTEBRATES IN WHICH THE 1910 01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,720 INNATE SYSTEM IS THE ONLY SYSTEM 1911 01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:31,880 THAT'S PRESENT, DID THAT PLAY A 1912 01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:39,120 PART IN HIS ATTITUDES TOWARD THE 1913 01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:41,400 SUGGESTION THAT THE ADAPTIVE 1914 01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:46,000 SYSTEM WASN'T RELEVANT OR WASN'T 1915 01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:46,280 IMPORTANT? 1916 01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:48,840 >> I THINK -- LOOK, I CAN ONLY 1917 01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:51,440 SAY WHAT I THINK. 1918 01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:52,680 I DON'T KNOW WHAT -- YOU KNOW, 1919 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,000 HOW IT REALLY WAS BUT I THINK 1920 01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,200 THERE WAS A BIAS THERE, 1921 01:18:57,200 --> 01:18:57,800 ABSOLUTELY. 1922 01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:59,200 HE DID WORK WITH VERTEBRATES. 1923 01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:01,760 HE WORKED WITH RABBITS AND WITH 1924 01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:03,800 RATS AND BUT, FOR EXAMPLE, HE 1925 01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,000 WAS NEVER INTERESTED IN 1926 01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:07,200 LYMPHOCYTES, AND MAYBE THAT'S 1927 01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:13,520 BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE 1928 01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:14,080 VERTEBRATES, THE ORIGINAL 1929 01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:15,280 SPECIES HE WORKED WITH THAT 1930 01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:16,520 DON'T HAVE THEM. 1931 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:24,600 BUT I THINK MORE THAN THAT, YOU 1932 01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,120 HE WASN'T WILLING TO REALLY 1933 01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:29,240 ADMIT THE DECISIVE ROLE OF 1934 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:32,360 ANTIBODIES BECAUSE IT WAS AN 1935 01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:34,800 EITHER/OTHER, LIFE AND DEATH. 1936 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,000 IF HE ACCEPTED THAT ANTIBODIES 1937 01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,000 WERE THE MAIN THING, THEN HIS 1938 01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:43,240 LIFE'S WORK WOULD GO DOWN THE 1939 01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:44,680 DRAIN. 1940 01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:45,640 HE DID ACCEPT THEIR FUNCTION 1941 01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:49,960 SORT OF A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS 1942 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:54,880 THE END BUT THOUGHT IT WAS 1943 01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,920 SECONDARY AND PHAGOCYTES WERE 1944 01:19:57,920 --> 01:19:59,920 THE PREDOMINANT ONES. 1945 01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:03,000 >> DID METCHNIKOFF EVER CONSIDER 1946 01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:04,960 THE IDEA THE INNATE SYSTEM COULD 1947 01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:06,600 SORT OF TURN ON ITSELF AND 1948 01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:11,760 PRODUCE WHAT TODAY WE WOULD CALL 1949 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:12,080 AUTOIMMUNITY? 1950 01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:13,400 >> I ANSWERED THAT BEFORE. 1951 01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,080 I READ THAT QUESTION FROM THE 1952 01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,280 PROMPT, THAT I HAVE IN THE CHAT. 1953 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,440 NO, I DON'T -- I DIDN'T SEE ANY 1954 01:20:22,440 --> 01:20:25,000 EVIDENCE OF THAT, ONLY IN 1955 01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,960 ATROPHY AND OLD AGE. 1956 01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,600 BUT NOT IN AUTOIMMUNITY. 1957 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:33,120 >> WHAT THAT IS AUTOPHAGY? 1958 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:33,400 >> SORRY? 1959 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:38,040 >> I SAID THEN WHAT IS 1960 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:40,200 AUTOPHAGY, WHEN YOU'RE EATING, 1961 01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:41,760 IT'S NORMAL, PHYSIOLOGY, BUT YOU 1962 01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:48,120 EAT YOUR OWN JUNK, RIGHT? 1963 01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,880 >> YEAH, DEGRADATION. 1964 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:51,600 WELL, BAD COMMENT. 1965 01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,080 IT WILL TAKE US AWAY FROM 1966 01:20:54,080 --> 01:21:00,200 REALITY. 1967 01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:01,040 >> SO, OKAY. 1968 01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:01,600 BOB? 1969 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,440 THERE ARE A SERIES OF QUESTIONS, 1970 01:21:04,440 --> 01:21:05,840 QUITE A FEW. 1971 01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:06,840 I'M TRYING TO GET THEM 1972 01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:07,120 ORGANIZED. 1973 01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:12,760 ONE IS DO YOU THINK THE FLU 1974 01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:14,960 VACCINE ACTIVATES INNATE 1975 01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:15,200 IMMUNITY? 1976 01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:17,120 >> WHY NOT? 1977 01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:18,000 OF COURSE, YES. 1978 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:18,840 LIVE ONE. 1979 01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,360 REMEMBER I SAID THERE'S 1980 01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:24,120 INTRANASAL AND INJECTABLE BUT 1981 01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:26,600 INTRANASAL FOR SURE, AND I WOULD 1982 01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,120 SAY EVEN THE DEAD ONE, SOME 1983 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:29,600 INNATE IMMUNITY. 1984 01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:31,400 LOOK, IF YOU DON'T HAVE INNATE 1985 01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:32,600 IMMUNITY UP CAN'T MAKE 1986 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:37,320 ANTIBODIES, YOU DON'T MAKE 1987 01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:40,560 ANTIBODIES, YOU DON'T GET THAT 1988 01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:40,800 RESPONSE. 1989 01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:42,160 MAYBE THE MEMORY AFTER BUT IN 1990 01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:44,680 ORDER TO BEGIN ANY VACCINATION, 1991 01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:52,080 YOU NEED INNATE IMMUNITY. 1992 01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:53,000 SO, YEAH, SURE. 1993 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:54,600 DEAD VACCINES DON'T WORK AS 1994 01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:56,680 WELL, THAT SEEMS CLEAR, NOT AS 1995 01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:59,960 BIG A STIMULATION, OKAY? 1996 01:21:59,960 --> 01:22:00,440 BUT YEAH. 1997 01:22:00,440 --> 01:22:02,360 I THINK FLU VACCINE -- 1998 01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:04,280 >> YEAH. 1999 01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:10,800 THERE'S A QUESTION RAISED ABOUT 2000 01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,800 THE ORAL POLIO VACCINE, WHICH 2001 01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:16,680 CLEARLY WAS ASSOCIATED VERY 2002 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:21,200 INFREQUENTLY FORTUNATELY BUT WAS 2003 01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:25,080 ASSOCIATED WITH THE CLINICAL 2004 01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:25,600 DISEASE. 2005 01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,120 HOW DID YOU GET AROUND THAT 2006 01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:28,320 ISSUE? 2007 01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:30,920 >> I THINK IT'S RATHER SIMPLE, 2008 01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:34,240 I THINK. 2009 01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,080 FIRST OF ALL, IT'S ONE IN EVERY 2010 01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,680 FEW MILLION DOSES, IN AN 2011 01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:41,040 UNVACCINATED POPULATION. 2012 01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:44,640 IN THE UNITED STATES, WE TOOK IT 2013 01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:46,280 BETWEEN 1962 AND 2000, THE LIVE 2014 01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:47,160 ORAL POLIO. 2015 01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:50,400 THERE WASN'T A SINGLE CASE, MY 2016 01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:51,640 UNDERSTANDING, NOT A SINGLE 2017 01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,480 CASE, THE NUMBER OF DOSES WERE 2018 01:22:53,480 --> 01:22:55,120 BILLIONS, NOT A SINGLE SIDE 2019 01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,560 EFFECT MAJOR, NOT A SINGLE POLIO 2020 01:22:57,560 --> 01:22:58,640 CASE. 2021 01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:00,320 SO, IN A VACCINATED POPULATION 2022 01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:03,360 THERE IS NO PROBLEM. 2023 01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:03,960 IN OTHER POPULATIONS THEY ARE 2024 01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:05,000 DOING IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO 2025 01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:06,840 AND NEED IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT 2026 01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,000 THEY HAVE AND CAN AFFORD. 2027 01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,440 AND IT'S ABOUT 1 IN 2 MILLION. 2028 01:23:12,440 --> 01:23:14,520 IF YOU PLANNED IT, WE'RE 2029 01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:15,400 VACCINATED WITH IPV, IT WOULDN'T 2030 01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:17,440 BE A DANGER FOR US BUT IF YOU 2031 01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:19,160 WANT TO BE SURE, YOU USE 2032 01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,600 SOMETHING THAT CAN'T REVERT. 2033 01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,240 I MEAN, GATES -- I SHOULDN'T SAY 2034 01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:27,200 GATES, HIS FOUNDATION FUNDED 2035 01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:33,360 SOME PEOPLE TO MAKE A SEROTYPE 2036 01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:34,520 2 THAT CAN'T REVERT. 2037 01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,400 I DON'T THINK 1 AND 3 REVERT. 2038 01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:40,200 THERE'S EASY WAYS TO GET AROUND 2039 01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:40,600 IT. 2040 01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:40,960 THAT'S IT. 2041 01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:45,560 I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO AVOID 2042 01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:47,320 USING OPV. 2043 01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:49,680 FROM TALKING -- PEOPLE I KNOW 2044 01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:50,400 AND RESPECT THE MOST HAVE THE 2045 01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:56,240 SAME OPINION THAT ARE THE BEST 2046 01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:58,800 POLIO VIROLOGISTS, VIMMER IN NEW 2047 01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:06,880 YORK, EGGOL IN MOSCOW, AND MY 2048 01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:08,200 FRIEND CONSTANTINE CHERMIKOFF 2049 01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:09,120 WOULD ADVOCATE STOP THE 2050 01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:10,840 DISCUSSION OF NO MORE 2051 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,400 VACCINATION WITH OPV AND TALK 2052 01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:14,560 ABOUT ERADICATING, BECAUSE IT'S 2053 01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,720 NOT GOING TO BE ERADICATED BUT 2054 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:19,200 GET EVERYONE VACCINATED WHICH IS 2055 01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,800 STILL NOT THE CASE. 2056 01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:23,760 IT'S NOT INSURMOUNTABLE, IT'S 2057 01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:24,120 SURMOUNTABLE. 2058 01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:25,800 I DIDN'T SAY -- I THOUGHT OF OPV 2059 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:26,760 BECAUSE OF THE LESSON IN THE 2060 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:32,880 PAST BUT IT'S NOT LIMITED TO 2061 01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:33,840 OPV. 2062 01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,240 ROTAVIRUSES, INTRANASAL FLU, 2063 01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:37,240 BCG, THERE'S MEASLES, MUMPS, 2064 01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:37,480 RUBELLA. 2065 01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:39,000 I DON'T WANT TO PROMOTE THIS TOO 2066 01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:40,760 MUCH BUT MANY PEOPLE IN THE 2067 01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:42,600 GLOBAL VIRUS NETWORK THAT ARE 2068 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,360 CENTER DIRECTORS, WE TAKE MMR 2069 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,080 BEFORE THE VACCINE WAS 2070 01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,800 AVAILABLE, EVEN NOW, IN BETWEEN 2071 01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:50,360 BOOSTS. 2072 01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:51,000 FOR JUST BOOSTING INNATE 2073 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,120 IMMUNITY WHEN WE KNOW WE'RE 2074 01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:54,400 GOING INTO A POPULATION-DENSE 2075 01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:54,920 AREA. 2076 01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,920 IF I'M GOING TO TRAVEL, IN A 2077 01:24:57,920 --> 01:24:58,680 POPULATION-DENSE AREA, I'D LIKE 2078 01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,600 FOR SEVERAL WEEKS TO HAVE MY 2079 01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:03,120 INNATE SYSTEM ALERTED. 2080 01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:06,120 BECAUSE THEY PROTECT AGAINST 2081 01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:06,400 INFECTION. 2082 01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:11,480 NOT AGAINST JUST DISEASE IN 2083 01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:13,680 ALLOWING INFECTION. 2084 01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:15,560 >> THAT'S OBVIOUSLY VERY 2085 01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:16,880 IMPORTANT. 2086 01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:20,800 AARON ASKS WHAT'S THE 2087 01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:22,760 POSSIBILITY THAT AN HIV-LIKE 2088 01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,920 RETROVIRUS THAT ATTACKS THE 2089 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,720 IMMUNE SYSTEM CAN CHANGE ITS 2090 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,440 TROPISM TO BECOME A RESPIRATORY 2091 01:25:31,440 --> 01:25:31,640 VIRUS? 2092 01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:34,400 >> MY BEST ANSWER IS IN 1988 I 2093 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:35,520 WAS ASKED THAT, IN A PRESS 2094 01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:37,720 CONFERENCE IN WHICH IN THE NEXT 2095 01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,000 ROOM THERE WAS ANOTHER PRESS 2096 01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,560 CONFERENCE IN STOCKHOLM, THE 2097 01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:45,160 INTERNATIONAL AIDS SOCIETY 2098 01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:45,520 MEETING. 2099 01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:47,320 AND TWO SCIENTISTS, MYSELF AND 2100 01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:48,560 ANOTHER, FROM EUROPE, WERE PUT 2101 01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,280 IN OPPOSITE ROOMS AND ASKED THE 2102 01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:52,000 SAME QUESTION. 2103 01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,240 HE SAID THAT IT WAS A GOOD 2104 01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:56,320 POSSIBILITY WE COULD HAVE THE 2105 01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:58,600 SUPER VIRUS AND THAT MADE 2106 01:25:58,600 --> 01:25:58,880 HEADLINES. 2107 01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:00,480 AND MY ANSWER WOULD BE THE SAME 2108 01:26:00,480 --> 01:26:03,280 AS I SAID THEN. 2109 01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,800 IF A VIRUS CHANGES ITS TROPISM 2110 01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,640 TO TARGET T CELLS, IT'S GIVING 2111 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,400 UP ITS TROPISM TO TARGET MY NOSE 2112 01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:15,120 AND MY MOUTH AND MY RESPIRATORY 2113 01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:15,720 TRACT. 2114 01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:17,200 IT CAN'T -- SECONDLY, HOW MANY 2115 01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:18,960 YEARS HAVE WE HAD HIV FLOATING 2116 01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:20,440 AROUND NOW? 2117 01:26:20,440 --> 01:26:23,080 IT'S ABOUT 42 YEARS, 43 YEARS, 2118 01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:23,520 45 YEARS. 2119 01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:25,600 THE WAY THIS VIRUS REPLICATES, 2120 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,560 THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INFECTED, 2121 01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,240 YOU KNOW, REALLY A LOT OF 2122 01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:32,160 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. 2123 01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:33,640 DON'T YOU THINK IT WOULD HAVE 2124 01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:35,080 HAPPENED BY NOW? 2125 01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:37,280 SO, THE ANSWER IS I THINK 2126 01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:38,480 THAT'S -- WE GOT A LOT OF THINGS 2127 01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:40,000 TO WORRY ABOUT, THIS IS LIKE 2128 01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:42,320 WORRYING ABOUT TOMORROW, THE 2129 01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:43,520 MOON IS GOING TO HIT THE EARTH. 2130 01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:44,560 I DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO 2131 01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:45,920 HAPPEN AND THAT YOU HAVE TO 2132 01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:47,440 WORRY BIT. 2133 01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:49,720 THE TROPISM CHANGE WOULD DESTROY 2134 01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:51,680 ITS ABILITY TO TARGET T CELLS 2135 01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:52,560 RATHER SPECIFICALLY AND 2136 01:26:52,560 --> 01:27:00,120 MACROPHAGE, TO AN EXTENT. 2137 01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:06,160 >> WHAT IS THE MECHANISM WHEREBY 2138 01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:07,680 BCG AFFECTS BLADDER CANCER? 2139 01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:11,160 >> I ASSUME IT'S THE SAME BY 2140 01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:11,800 STIMULATING TOLL-LIKE RECEPTORS 2141 01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:13,160 THAT INDUCE A LOT OF INNATE 2142 01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:15,080 IMMUNITY WHICH IS OF COURSE USED 2143 01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,040 TO TREAT CANCERS, AND WAS PUSHED 2144 01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,040 IN GERMANY PRIOR TO CHEMOTHERAPY 2145 01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:22,000 AS YOU MAY KNOW, I DON'T HAVE 2146 01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:22,840 ANY EXPERIENCE WITH IT, NEVER 2147 01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:26,680 FOLLOWED IT THAT CAREFUL 2148 01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:27,320 CAREFULLY BUT ASSUME THE 2149 01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:28,320 MECHANISM IS THE SAME. 2150 01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:34,800 YOU DEVELOP A LOT OF INTERFERON, 2151 01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:36,000 DEVELOP NATURAL KILLERS CELLS, 2152 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:40,840 WHICH CAN KILL CANCER CELLS, 2153 01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:42,480 THROUGH INNATE IMMUNITY, YEAH. 2154 01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:43,880 MANY PEOPLE STUDY INNATE 2155 01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,800 IMMUNITY IN TERMS OF CANCER, I'M 2156 01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:53,200 NOT EXPERT ON OR DON'T KNOW A 2157 01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:53,960 LOT ABOUT. 2158 01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:59,640 >> TODAY YOU REFERRED TO A 2159 01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:00,520 VARIETY OF EPIDEMIOLOGIC 2160 01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:06,000 STUDIES, NOT ALL LINKING THE 2161 01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:12,120 INNATE IMMUNE SYSTEM TO A 2162 01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,960 PROTECTIVE ROLE. 2163 01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:16,040 TWO QUESTIONS. 2164 01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:18,240 ONE, IS THERE RENEWED INTEREST 2165 01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,240 IN THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD THAT 2166 01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:27,160 PEOPLE MORE AND MORE ARE 2167 01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:28,440 STUDYING MECHANISM AND 2168 01:28:28,440 --> 01:28:29,160 OCCURRENCES AFOOT REGARDING 2169 01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:31,880 INNATE IMMUNE SYSTEM AND WHAT 2170 01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:34,800 WOULD YOU SUGGEST AS WAYS IN 2171 01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:39,840 WHICH SUCH RESEARCH COULD BE 2172 01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:40,160 STIMULATED? 2173 01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:46,680 >> FIRST ANSWER NO, SECOND 2174 01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:47,880 ANSWER, I DON'T KNOW. 2175 01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:48,960 YOU SAID BE BRIEF. 2176 01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:50,160 NO, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY 2177 01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:50,600 REAL INCREASE. 2178 01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:51,800 THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT 2179 01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:57,920 KEEP IN TOUCH WITH EACH OTHER. 2180 01:28:57,920 --> 01:28:59,520 THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST, WE 2181 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:05,880 TALK ABOUT IT A LOT, IT'S POORLY 2182 01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:06,200 FUNDED. 2183 01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:09,880 WELL, I'M TALKING -- WELL, I'M 2184 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:10,760 TALKING TO MILITARY, BECAUSE THE 2185 01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:11,800 ARMY LOOKS FOR THAT. 2186 01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:13,400 WHEN THEY GO INTO LET'S SAY YOU 2187 01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:16,080 HAD TO SEND A LARGE NUMBER OF 2188 01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:17,040 SOLDIERS INTO FUNNY AREA NEAR 2189 01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:23,280 EGYPT, LET'S SAY THERE WAS A NEW 2190 01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:26,080 OUTBREAK OF A RESPIRATORY VIRUS, 2191 01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:31,080 IMAGINE YOU HAD A PILL IN YOUR 2192 01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:33,800 POCKET, FORGET MMR OR OBG. 2193 01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:35,440 THIS SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE 2194 01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:41,800 CONVERTED TO A PILL THAT REACTS 2195 01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:42,960 CAN THE SAME RECEPTORS WITH THE 2196 01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:44,160 SAME THING IN YOUR POCKET. 2197 01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:45,680 I THINK THAT DAY WILL COME. 2198 01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,000 I DON'T KNOW WHEN. 2199 01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:50,640 I HAVE A DISCUSSION NEXT WEEK 2200 01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:52,400 WITH SOME GROUP OF COLONELS IN 2201 01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:53,720 THE ARMY ABOUT THIS. 2202 01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:59,960 I MEAN I HOPE SOMEBODY WILL GET 2203 01:29:59,960 --> 01:30:01,800 INTERESTED IN COMING. 2204 01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:11,200 >> ARE THERE ANY, TO YOUR 2205 01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:12,800 KNOWLEDGE, CONTROLLED CLINICAL 2206 01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,560 TRIALS WITH BCG OR OTHER -- 2207 01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:16,400 >> YES. 2208 01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:18,880 THERE WILL BE A RUSSIAN STUDY 2209 01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:20,440 PUBLISHED, AND PEOPLE WILL SAY 2210 01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:21,800 IT'S FROM RUSSIA, LIKE IT 2211 01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,560 DOESN'T MEAN -- YOU KNOW, BUT 2212 01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:26,400 THERE IS. 2213 01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:30,760 >> LIKE METCHNIKOFF, WHERE WE 2214 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:31,080 STARTED. 2215 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,040 >> HE ENDED UP MOVING TO PARIS. 2216 01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:34,680 TODAY MOVE HERE MAYBE, OR MAYBE 2217 01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:36,600 MOVE TO CHINA, I'M NOT SURE. 2218 01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:37,520 IN ANY CASE, YES. 2219 01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:45,000 THERE WILL BE A RUSSIAN STUDY 2220 01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,480 PUBLISHED, WITH OPV I GUESS. 2221 01:30:47,480 --> 01:30:49,200 THERE HAVE BEEN SMALL STUDIES 2222 01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:54,280 FROM INDIA, I THINK MEXICO, I 2223 01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:56,160 WOULD FOLLOW, THE BEST IN MY 2224 01:30:56,160 --> 01:31:04,680 FIELD IS A GUY, FOLLOW THE NAME 2225 01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,280 NETEA, A ROMANIAN, WORKING WHY 2226 01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:10,360 HOLLAND IN A UNIVERSITY, A 2227 01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,760 REALLY GOOD SCIENTIST. 2228 01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:15,720 AND HE'S THE ONE WHO DISCOVERED 2229 01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:18,720 TRAINED INNATE IMMUNITY FROM 2230 01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:20,400 MYELOID CELL INNATE IMMUNITY. 2231 01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,160 TRAINED, MEANING -- HE SHOWED IT 2232 01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:24,120 LASTED MUCH LONGER THAN WE 2233 01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:25,880 THOUGHT, WITH BCG HE SHOWED SIX 2234 01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:27,240 MONTHS, HE KNOWS THE MECHANISM, 2235 01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:30,400 HE'S WORKED OUT THE MECHANISMS, 2236 01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:38,400 HE GETS INVOLVED IN TRIALS, ALSO 2237 01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:39,200 MICHAEL AVIDAN AT WASHINGTON 2238 01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:45,760 UNIVERSITY, AND CHRIS STEIN 2239 01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:51,840 STABLE-BEN, AND HER COLLEAGUE 2240 01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:54,920 PETER AABBY, THEY DO CLINICAL 2241 01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:55,160 TRIALS. 2242 01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:57,320 YES, DO I KNOW THEM ALL, NO. 2243 01:31:57,320 --> 01:32:00,720 FOR THIS TALK I ASKED MY FRIEND 2244 01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:05,080 IF HE WOULD SEND A LIST OF ALL 2245 01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:07,560 SUCH PAPERS, HE DID THREE DAYS 2246 01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:07,720 AGO. 2247 01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:10,120 AND LET'S BE OPEN, I FORGOT TO 2248 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:11,400 READ IT. 2249 01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:13,880 IF I READ IT, I'D KNOW THE 2250 01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:14,360 ANSWER BETTER. 2251 01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:19,200 BUT IT'S SOMEWHERE IN MY STACK 2252 01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:24,560 OF -- ON MY DESK. 2253 01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:25,480 >> IF YOU WOULD BE KIND ENOUGH 2254 01:32:25,480 --> 01:32:26,840 WHEN YOU GET TO IT -- 2255 01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:28,400 >> I'LL SEND IT TO YOU. 2256 01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:29,840 >> WE'LL POST IT. 2257 01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:34,080 WE'LL POST THEM ON THE WEBSITE 2258 01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:36,040 BECAUSE I'M SURE ATTENDEES WOULD 2259 01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:40,400 BE VERY INTERESTED IN READING 2260 01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:40,880 SUCH -- 2261 01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:42,040 >> LET'S REMEMBER THE ANIMAL 2262 01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:43,680 PAPERS THAT JUST CAME OUT. 2263 01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:45,560 TWO ANIMAL TRIALS JUST CAME OUT. 2264 01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:47,720 ONE, I THINK A VERY INTERESTING 2265 01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:53,760 STUDY BY ELLEN SCHERER OF NIH, 2266 01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:56,680 INTRAVENOUS BCG, PROTECTING MICE 2267 01:32:56,680 --> 01:33:01,400 AGAINST LETHAL CHALLENGES SARS 2268 01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:01,520 2. 2269 01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,640 ANOTHER COLLABORATING WITH A 2270 01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:07,800 GROUP AT STANFORD, SHOWING IN 2271 01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:09,160 ANIMAL MODEL, "CELL" PAPER, 2272 01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:12,640 WONDERFUL DATA OF PROTECTION, 2273 01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:13,400 ALSO USING THERAPEUTICALLY. 2274 01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:14,840 WHICH ONE HAS TO BE A LITTLE 2275 01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:17,080 CAREFUL ABOUT IF IT'S TOO FAR 2276 01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:17,960 INTO THE INFECTION PROCESS 2277 01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:19,120 BECAUSE YOU WANT TO TAKE CARE OF 2278 01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:21,960 THE VIRUS BUT DON'T WANT TO MAKE 2279 01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:25,640 INFLAMMATION AUGMENTED IN LATER 2280 01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:25,880 STAGES. 2281 01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:30,920 >> THERE WAS A QUESTION ON THAT 2282 01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:32,200 SCORE, WHETHER THE CYTOKINE 2283 01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:34,920 STORM THAT'S BEEN OBSERVED IN 2284 01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:37,680 SOME COVID PATIENTS COULD BE DUE 2285 01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:39,280 TO THE INNATE IMMUNITY. 2286 01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:39,800 >> NOT REALLY, NO. 2287 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:41,560 I DON'T THINK SO. 2288 01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:42,880 I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW BUT I DON'T 2289 01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:43,640 THINK SO. 2290 01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:46,760 USING INNATE IMMUNITY IS 2291 01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:48,360 SOMETHING THAT OCCURS AT THE 2292 01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:51,520 BEGINNING, NOT LATE. 2293 01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:53,200 IN FACT CYTOKINES INVOKED WITH 2294 01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:57,040 THINGS LIKE IL6, NOT A BIG PART 2295 01:33:57,040 --> 01:33:58,080 OF INNATE IMMUNITY USUALLY. 2296 01:33:58,080 --> 01:33:59,560 SO I DON'T -- THIS IS COMPLEX 2297 01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:01,640 WHEN YOU GET LATE AND ALL THIS 2298 01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:02,000 INFLAMMATION. 2299 01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:03,560 YOU I DON'T WANT TO USE INNATE 2300 01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:05,520 STIMULATION LATE. 2301 01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,160 THAT'S FOR SURE. 2302 01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:11,000 THIS IS BEFOREHAND AND EARLY 2303 01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:11,320 PHASE. 2304 01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:15,280 IF YOU'RE REALLY SICK GETTING 2305 01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:16,400 INTO A CYTOKINE STORM, A 2306 01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:18,120 RESPIRATOR, YOU I DON'T WANT 2307 01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:19,440 ANYBODY STICKING YOU, CAUSING 2308 01:34:19,440 --> 01:34:28,000 ANYTHING THAT WOULD AUGMENT 2309 01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:28,440 INFLAMMATION. 2310 01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:31,640 >> IF YOU LOOK AT SYMPTOMOLOGY, 2311 01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,160 TYPICAL COVID CASE WHERE THERE 2312 01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:37,400 ARE SYMPTOMS, WHAT SYMPTOMS 2313 01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:42,760 WOULD YOU ASCRIBE LIKELY AS DUE 2314 01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:43,480 TO THE INNATE IMMUNE SYSTEM? 2315 01:34:43,480 --> 01:34:45,520 >> WELL, YOU KNOW, EVERY 2316 01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,920 TIME -- I MENTIONED THAT AT MY 2317 01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:49,440 AGE PROBABLY THERE'S BEEN 100, 2318 01:34:49,440 --> 01:34:51,560 200, HOW MANY TIMES WE'VE BEEN 2319 01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:52,840 INFECTED, THE NEXT DAY WE'RE 2320 01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:55,440 WELL, WHAT WERE YOUR SYMPTOMS? 2321 01:34:55,440 --> 01:34:56,440 THEY ARE EITHER NOTHING AND WHAT 2322 01:34:56,440 --> 01:34:58,280 ARE YOUR SYMPTOMS AFTER A 2323 01:34:58,280 --> 01:34:58,560 VACCINATION? 2324 01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:00,800 WHAT DO YOU THINK IT'S DUE TO? 2325 01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:01,200 INNATE IMMUNITY. 2326 01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:02,760 WHAT ARE THEY USUALLY? 2327 01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:03,480 NOTHING, MAYBE A LITTLE 2328 01:35:03,480 --> 01:35:05,080 HEADACHE, MAYBE A CHILL. 2329 01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:08,400 MAYBE A LOW GRADE FEVER. 2330 01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:10,200 THOSE ARE THE MAIN THINGS. 2331 01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:13,240 THOSE ARE INTERFERON SYMPTOMS 2332 01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:16,640 MAINLY. 2333 01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:18,080 I DON'T KNOW WHAT MORE I CAN 2334 01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:18,360 SAY. 2335 01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:19,720 I DON'T THINK IN LATE STAGE 2336 01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:20,760 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT. 2337 01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:23,640 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A GREAT 2338 01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:28,640 DEAL OF DESTRUCTION OF A LOT OF 2339 01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:29,840 VASCULAR DESTRUCTION, AND I 2340 01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:32,400 DON'T KNOW, I JUST READ SOMEBODY 2341 01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:36,000 WHO HAS A HYPOTHESIS ABOUT GRADY 2342 01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:37,440 KIEM CAUSING BULK OF 2343 01:35:37,440 --> 01:35:37,840 PATHOGENESIS. 2344 01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:39,720 I MEAN, THAT'S A MESS. 2345 01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:41,920 A LOT OF CELLS ARE -- I DON'T 2346 01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:44,280 KNOW HOW MUCH THE IMMUNE SYSTEM 2347 01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:44,560 HAS A ROLE. 2348 01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:47,920 A LOT OF IT IS DIRECT VIRAL. 2349 01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:49,200 WE DON'T KNOW SO-CALLED LATE 2350 01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:50,360 COVID, WE DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S 2351 01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:51,320 DUE TO IMMUNITY. 2352 01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:53,400 IT MAY BE WELL THAT VIRUS IS 2353 01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:53,720 STILL THERE. 2354 01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:56,240 WHO HAS PROVEN VIRUS IS NOT 2355 01:35:56,240 --> 01:36:00,520 STILL THERE, A YEAR LATER? 2356 01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:02,160 I JUST -- WIN KNOWS, I JUST HAD 2357 01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:04,360 KNEE SURGERY. 2358 01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:06,200 THE PERSON DOING MY PHYSICAL 2359 01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,120 THERAPY TOLD ME HER BROTHER IS A 2360 01:36:08,120 --> 01:36:09,760 YEAR OTHER TWO LATER STILL CAN'T 2361 01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:10,480 TASTE OR SMELL. 2362 01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:15,040 DO WE KNOW IT'S NOT VIRUS LEFT 2363 01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:16,800 SOMEWHERE BETWEEN HIS NASAL 2364 01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,760 PASSAGES, OLFACTORY NERVES OR 2365 01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:31,000 THE BRAIN ITSELF? 2366 01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:33,080 >> I GUESS WE STILL DON'T KNOW, 2367 01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:34,160 DO YOU KNOW? 2368 01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:38,840 WHAT DO WE KNOW IS THE MECHANISM 2369 01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:39,720 OF CHRONIC COVID? 2370 01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:40,480 >> I DON'T KNOW. 2371 01:36:40,480 --> 01:36:42,800 AND I BET YOU NOT TOO MANY 2372 01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:44,640 PEOPLE KNOW OR MAYBE NOBODY. 2373 01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:45,520 I DON'T KNOW. 2374 01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:47,240 YOU ASK A QUESTION THAT IS THE 2375 01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:50,120 MAIN SUBJECT OF OUR GLOBAL VIRUS 2376 01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:51,760 NETWORK MEETINGS NOW, RELATED TO 2377 01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:52,760 SARS 2. 2378 01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:56,320 SHOULD WE BE THINKING OF WHAT DO 2379 01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:58,840 WE KNOW, AND I THINK THIS IS NOT 2380 01:36:58,840 --> 01:36:59,720 GOING ANYWHERE. 2381 01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:01,880 WE NEED ALL OUR CLINICIANS 2382 01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:02,560 TOGETHER, WE'LL GET THE SAME 2383 01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:04,080 DESCRIPTION BUT I THINK WE KNOW 2384 01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:08,440 VERY ALSO. -- VERY LITTLE. 2385 01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:11,800 WE DON'T KNOW MUCH. 2386 01:37:11,800 --> 01:37:13,720 IT'S POSTMORTEM WE'LL HAVE TO 2387 01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,680 RELY ON, NOT MANY AVAILABLE FOR 2388 01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:18,920 DEEP DOWN STUDY BUT I THINK IT 2389 01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:29,280 WILL COME FROM POST MORT EM. 2390 01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:33,000 >> WE HAVE A SESSION IN THE 2391 01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:34,840 COURSE ON CHRONIC COVID. 2392 01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:39,120 ON MARCH 29. 2393 01:37:39,120 --> 01:37:42,280 WITH THE WALTER KOROSHETZ, 2394 01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:45,200 DIRECTOR OF NINDS. 2395 01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:47,680 AND JOSH GORDON, DIRECTOR OF OF 2396 01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:48,840 THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF 2397 01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:49,720 MENTAL HEALTH. 2398 01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:55,600 WE'LL SEE WHAT EMERGES AT THAT 2399 01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:56,160 POINT. 2400 01:37:56,160 --> 01:38:04,880 THERE'S A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER 2401 01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,880 ANTIGEN SPECIFICITY OF THE CD 8 2402 01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,440 T-CELL RECEPTOR CAN BE 2403 01:38:11,440 --> 01:38:15,960 DIFFERENT, IN DIFFERENT ORGANS, 2404 01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:18,880 PLAYING A ROLE IN WHAT ORGAN IS 2405 01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:22,480 AFFECTED, SAY THE ORAL MUCOSA 2406 01:38:22,480 --> 01:38:25,600 VERSUS -- OR THE ORAL PHARYNX 2407 01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:27,480 VERSUS THE LUNGS. 2408 01:38:27,480 --> 01:38:31,960 IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE FOR 2409 01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:37,320 ANTIGEN SPECIFICITY OF CD8 2410 01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:38,000 T-CELL RECEPTORS? 2411 01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:39,440 >> RIGHT, THE WORDS I SAY WE 2412 01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:45,000 DON'T USE ENOUGH, I DON'T KNOW. 2413 01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:46,720 I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING 2414 01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:48,680 IN THE LITERATURE THAT DESCRIBES 2415 01:38:48,680 --> 01:38:48,880 THAT. 2416 01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:51,840 IT SEEMS REASONABLE THERE COULD 2417 01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:52,960 BE VARIATION, DIFFERENT ORGANS 2418 01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:54,480 HAVE DIFFERENT NUMBERS OF T 2419 01:38:54,480 --> 01:38:56,240 CELLS AND DIFFERENT -- SOMETIMES 2420 01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,000 THE MARKERS ARE VERY DIFFERENT. 2421 01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:00,560 DIFFERENT DEGREES OF ACTIVATION, 2422 01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:02,800 DIFFERENT DEGREES OF 2423 01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:03,160 DIFFERENTIATION. 2424 01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:04,240 SO WHY NOT? 2425 01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,120 I SUSPECT IT'S LIKELY TO BE THE 2426 01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:08,320 CASE. 2427 01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:12,880 BUT I CAN'T QUOTE LITERATURE 2428 01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:14,200 THAT KNOWS THAT. 2429 01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:16,680 THERE WAS ONE ABOUT WHETHER 2430 01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:18,840 OMICRON CAME FROM AN 2431 01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:20,080 HIV-INFECTED PERSON BECAUSE IT 2432 01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:23,040 CAME OUT OF SOUTH AFRICA. 2433 01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:24,200 REASONABLE, WE'VE CERTAINLY 2434 01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:25,000 THOUGHT ABOUT IT. 2435 01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:27,160 THERE'S NO PROOF OF IT. 2436 01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:40,200 >> ALL RIGHT. 2437 01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:45,640 I'M TRYING TO -- ALL RIGHT. 2438 01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:47,560 I'M HAVING SOME DIFFICULTY WITH 2439 01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:48,480 MY CHAT BOX HERE. 2440 01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:51,960 THERE ARE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS 2441 01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:53,840 THAT JUST ARRIVED. 2442 01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:56,080 >> IF I SEE ONE THAT YOU HAVEN'T 2443 01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:58,560 SAID, DO YOU WANT ME TO READ IT? 2444 01:39:58,560 --> 01:39:58,800 >> SURE. 2445 01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,680 >> I SEE ONE THAT SAYS DO THE 2446 01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:04,360 CURRENT VACCINES FROM CHINA 2447 01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:05,560 STIMULATE INNATE IMMUNITY 2448 01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:05,920 EFFECTIVELY? 2449 01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:07,120 I DON'T THINK SO. 2450 01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:08,640 I DOUBT IT. 2451 01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:11,760 I MEAN, MOST OF THE ONES FROM 2452 01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:14,480 CHINA THAT I'M AWARE OF ARE 2453 01:40:14,480 --> 01:40:17,600 REALLY CARRYING A GENE, THAT 2454 01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:19,360 GENE BY A VECTOR, EXPRESSED THAT 2455 01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:21,200 PROTEIN, WOULDN'T BE NECESSARILY 2456 01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:21,520 VERY POWERFUL. 2457 01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:24,360 DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH REPLICATION 2458 01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:26,000 THERE IS. 2459 01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:31,440 I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE LIKELY 2460 01:40:31,440 --> 01:40:32,600 TO BE POWERFUL IMMUNE 2461 01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:32,920 STIMULATORS. 2462 01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:36,320 I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM VERY 2463 01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:38,800 MUCH ARE. 2464 01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:44,400 2465 01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:47,120 >> I'M SORRY. 2466 01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:52,520 2467 01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:53,320 >> THERE'S ANOTHER, ASKING HOW 2468 01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:55,640 DOES POLIO VACCINE LAST A 2469 01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:56,000 LIFETIME? 2470 01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:58,880 HOW DO ANY? 2471 01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:00,080 WHY POLIO? 2472 01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:01,840 YOU KNOW, JAY CHUNG, YOU ASKED 2473 01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:04,000 THAT QUESTION, WHY DO YOU ASK ME 2474 01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:05,560 ABOUT POLIO THAT YOU COULD ASK 2475 01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:06,600 ABOUT ANYTHING, WHY DOES 2476 01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:08,200 ANYTHING LAST A LIFETIME? 2477 01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:10,400 IT'S LUCKY THE RIGHT B CELL THAT 2478 01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:13,200 CONVERTS TO PLASMA CELLS THAT 2479 01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:14,080 ARE MATURE, THAT FIND THE RIGHT 2480 01:41:14,080 --> 01:41:15,360 MISSION IN THE BONE MARROW, 2481 01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:19,000 THAT'S WHAT WE KNOW. 2482 01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,360 THEY MAKE ANTIBODIES THAT GET TO 2483 01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:23,200 WHAT WE CALL THE GAMMA STAGE OF 2484 01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:25,680 THE IMMUNE RESPONSE OF AN 2485 01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,680 ANTIBODY, AND THOSE JUST GO ON 2486 01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:30,560 AND ON AND ON. 2487 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:32,880 IT'S THE DIFFERENTIATION OF THE 2488 01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:34,960 B CELL TO THE RIGHT PLASMA CELL, 2489 01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:40,960 AND WHY SOME B CELLS DO IT AND 2490 01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:42,400 SOME DON'T. 2491 01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:45,360 POLIO AND MANY OF OUR VACCINES 2492 01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:48,040 THAT LAST LIFETIME, ALL VACCINES 2493 01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:49,600 THAT LAST A LIFETIME HAVE TO DO 2494 01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,760 THAT, HAVE TO STIMULATE NERVE B 2495 01:41:54,760 --> 01:42:02,160 B CELL THAT RESPOND TO EPITOPES. 2496 01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:04,400 WE'LL LOOK FOR B CELLS THAT 2497 01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:05,640 CONVERT WITH FAST ASSAYS THAT 2498 01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,880 WE'RE ABLE TO DO IN BLOOD RATHER 2499 01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:10,800 THAN BONE MARROW, TRYING TO 2500 01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:12,880 DEVELOP THAT ACTUALLY. 2501 01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:13,400 SUCH STUDIES. 2502 01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:16,280 >> BOB, WE HAVE A QUESTION FOR 2503 01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:18,600 YOU FROM JOHN GALLIN. 2504 01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:20,800 HE SAYS THANK YOU, BOB. 2505 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:22,920 INNATE IMMUNITY, AS YOU SAID, IS 2506 01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:23,280 COMPLEX. 2507 01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:27,520 WE CAN LEARN FROM PATIENTS WITH 2508 01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:30,160 INBORN DEFECTS OF INNATE IMMUNE 2509 01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,560 SYSTEM, PATIENTS WITH CHRONIC 2510 01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:34,400 GRANULOMATOUS DISEASE RESPOND TO 2511 01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:36,120 VACCINES NORMALLY AND DO NOT 2512 01:42:36,120 --> 01:42:39,000 HAVE VIRAL INFECTIONS AS PART OF 2513 01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:41,080 THEIR CLINICAL PICTURE. 2514 01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:45,600 A PATIENT WE FOLLOW WITH OUR IK 2515 01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:47,000 4 DEFICIENCY OF THE TOLL 2516 01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:49,200 RECEPTOR PATHWAY ALSO DOES WELL. 2517 01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:50,920 DO YOU THINK STUDIES OF THE 2518 01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,720 GROUP OF PATIENTS WITH DEFECTIVE 2519 01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:56,200 INNATE IMMUNITY WOULD BE ONE 2520 01:42:56,200 --> 01:43:00,600 METHOD TO DISSECT THE IMPORTANCE 2521 01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:08,520 OF SPECIFIC COMPONENTS OF THE 2522 01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:09,600 INNATE IMMUNITY IN VIRAL 2523 01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:09,840 DISEASE? 2524 01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:13,800 >> YEAH, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT 2525 01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:14,160 THOSE PATIENTS. 2526 01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:16,080 IT'S A GOOD IDEA. 2527 01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:16,960 FRANKLY SPEAKING, MY BIAS WOULD 2528 01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:19,680 HAVE BEEN THAT IF YOU HAVE 2529 01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:21,120 SERIOUS MUTATIONS THAT AFFECT 2530 01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:23,040 INNATE IMMUNITY, YOU WON'T LIVE 2531 01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:23,920 PAST ONE YEAR. 2532 01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:25,320 I WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT IT 2533 01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:25,640 POSSIBLE. 2534 01:43:25,640 --> 01:43:27,800 BECAUSE WE GET SO MANY 2535 01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:29,160 INFECTIONS EARLY IN LIFE AND 2536 01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:32,880 EXPOSURE TO THINGS THAT YOU 2537 01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:34,520 WONDER HAD YOU THEY COULD 2538 01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:34,840 SURVIVE. 2539 01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:38,000 YES, IF YOU HAVE SUCH A PATIENT 2540 01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:42,280 POPULATION IT COULD BE 2541 01:43:42,280 --> 01:43:42,800 INVALUABLE. 2542 01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:44,400 >> ALL RIGHT. 2543 01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:44,880 LET'S SEE. 2544 01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:47,760 WAIT A MINUTE HERE. 2545 01:43:47,760 --> 01:44:03,120 2546 01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:04,200 WELL, ROB ASKED THE SAME 2547 01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:05,240 QUESTION THAT I FLOATED UP TO 2548 01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:11,560 YOU A LITTLE WHILE AGO. 2549 01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:16,560 WHY IS INNATE IMMUNITY STUDIED 2550 01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:18,800 SO LITTLE? 2551 01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:20,000 2552 01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:25,920 >> I WISH I WERE SMARTER. 2553 01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:28,200 I DON'T KNOW. 2554 01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,360 ONE POSSIBILITY IS THAT A LOT OF 2555 01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:32,640 VACCINE RESEARCH IS CERTAINLY 2556 01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:34,400 AND PROPERLY DRIVEN BY 2557 01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:35,400 PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES, RIGHT? 2558 01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:37,160 THE CONSEQUENCE OF THAT WOULD BE 2559 01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:38,880 THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE 2560 01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:40,680 TO BE AFFORDABLE. 2561 01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:43,000 I MEAN, I DON'T CRITICIZE THE 2562 01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:44,040 PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY. 2563 01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:45,840 THEY HAVE TO SURVIVE. 2564 01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:47,520 SOMEBODY HAS TO DEVELOP REGULAR 2565 01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:48,000 VACCINES. 2566 01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:49,880 SO I THINK THEY DON'T DRIVE IT 2567 01:44:49,880 --> 01:44:52,640 IN THIS DIRECTION SO THERE'S NOT 2568 01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:55,440 A LOT OF SPINOFF RESEARCH FROM 2569 01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:58,880 PEOPLE THAT INTERACT WITH THE 2570 01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:03,200 PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND 2571 01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:04,240 COLLABORATE, IT'S UNDERSTUDIED. 2572 01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:06,000 THAT MAY BE ONE PART OF THE 2573 01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:07,400 REASON. 2574 01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:09,120 I THINK IN THIS CASE BECAUSE 2575 01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:10,480 IT'S NOT -- WE'RE NOT USED TO 2576 01:45:10,480 --> 01:45:11,800 THINKING ABOUT IT, I DON'T WANT 2577 01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:12,880 TO GO THROUGH THE PERSONAL 2578 01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:14,200 THINGS OF PEOPLE THAT I TALKED 2579 01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:17,480 WITH BUT IF YOU COULD SEE THAT 2580 01:45:17,480 --> 01:45:19,560 IF I WAS IGNORANT, WHEN I WAS 2581 01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:22,280 FIRST STARTING OUT, ABOUT THE 2582 01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:25,000 IMPORTANCE OF THIS AREA, I 2583 01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:26,960 DIDN'T FIND MANY PEOPLE WHO 2584 01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:28,480 AREN'T ALREADY IN THE PROBLEM, 2585 01:45:28,480 --> 01:45:29,880 ANY BETTER INFORMED. 2586 01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:31,960 IN FACT, A LOT WORSE INFORMED. 2587 01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:33,920 I WAS SURPRISED. 2588 01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:35,720 SO I THINK IT'S JUST 2589 01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:36,320 UNDERAPPRECIATED AREA OF 2590 01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:36,560 RESEARCH. 2591 01:45:36,560 --> 01:45:38,200 ONE OF THE AREAS THAT NEEDS TO 2592 01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:39,280 GET FILLED IN. 2593 01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:43,200 WE NEED CLINICAL TRIALS WITH IT. 2594 01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:44,200 WE NEED FUNDING. 2595 01:45:44,200 --> 01:45:48,000 IT'S NOT BEEN AN INTEREST TO 2596 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:52,840 NIH. 2597 01:45:52,840 --> 01:45:54,680 I SEE A QUESTION, THE SAME EXACT 2598 01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:59,040 NAME AS MY COUSIN, A MUSICIAN. 2599 01:45:59,040 --> 01:45:59,320 [LAUGHTER] 2600 01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:01,360 I PLAYS IN A SYMPHONY, IT CAN'T 2601 01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:03,000 BE HIM, NO WAY HE WOULD BE 2602 01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:05,520 ASKING A SCIENCE QUESTION. 2603 01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:10,840 SAME EXACT NAME, RON CAPALEPI, 2604 01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,080 SAME NAME AS ROMEO AND JULIETTE, 2605 01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:18,560 YES, JULIET'S NAME. 2606 01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:21,600 CAPULETS, FROM VERONA. 2607 01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:23,360 >> YOUR COUSIN ASKS TO DISCUSS 2608 01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:27,920 WHAT EVIDENCE EXISTS ABOUT THE 2609 01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:29,400 EFFICACY OF INNATE IMMUNITY. 2610 01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:31,360 >> WELL, RON, YOU PROBABLY ARE 2611 01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,160 MY COUSIN TO ASK. 2612 01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:34,040 YOU WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO 2613 01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:35,960 WHAT I SAID IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 2614 01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:36,160 TALK. 2615 01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:39,800 THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE, TRIED 2616 01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:43,360 TO SUMMARIZE, BEGINNING FOR ME, 2617 01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:44,640 THE GROUP'S PAPER FROM STANFORD 2618 01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:46,400 SHOWING CORRELATES OF DOING WELL 2619 01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:48,880 BEFORE THE VACCINES WERE INNATE 2620 01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:51,200 IMMUNE CORRELATES. 2621 01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:52,840 THERE'S A HOST OF STUFF. 2622 01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:54,800 THE ANIMAL STUDIES THAT I JUST 2623 01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:59,600 MENTIONED, CLINICAL STUDIES I 2624 01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:00,720 MENTIONED, THE STUDIES WITH 2625 01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:03,040 INTERFERON AND CORRELATIONS THAT 2626 01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:05,040 I MENTIONED, THE EVIDENCE THAT 2627 01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:05,880 THIS VIRUS CARRIES AT LEAST 2628 01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:07,760 THREE GENES TO TRY TO AVOID 2629 01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:08,240 INNATE IMMUNITY. 2630 01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:10,400 WHY IS IT DOING THAT WHEN IT 2631 01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:11,920 DOESN'T HAVE MUCH GENETIC 2632 01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:13,640 INFORMATION TO SURVIVE THAT IT'S 2633 01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:16,040 SO WORRIED ABOUT IT? 2634 01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:18,960 SO I SHOULD SEND YOU MY SLIDES, 2635 01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:19,200 RON. 2636 01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:25,320 PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU'RE MY 2637 01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:26,800 COUSIN, RON CAPALETTI. 2638 01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:27,600 >> LUBA, THERE'S A QUESTION, 2639 01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:34,360 WHAT DO YOU PLAN FOR YOUR NEXT 2640 01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:36,320 BOOK? 2641 01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:36,640 PERHAPS COVID? 2642 01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:37,120 >> NO, NO. 2643 01:47:37,120 --> 01:47:40,400 NO PLANS AT THE MOMENT. 2644 01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:43,120 2645 01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:44,760 >> ALL RIGHT. 2646 01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:47,160 WELL, LISTEN, ON BEHALF OF ALL 2647 01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:48,800 THE PEOPLE LISTENING AND FOR ALL 2648 01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:52,040 OF US, WE WANT TO THANK BOTH OF 2649 01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:55,560 YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME. 2650 01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:59,120 IT'S NOW ALMOST MIDNIGHT IN 2651 01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:00,600 ISRAEL, THANK YOU ESPECIALLY. 2652 01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:02,680 AND IT'S A PLEASURE TO MEET YOU 2653 01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:04,760 AT LAST, LUBA. 2654 01:48:04,760 --> 01:48:06,720 AND BOB, THANK YOU REALLY SO 2655 01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:09,360 MUCH FOR PROVOKING AND 2656 01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,960 STIMULATING AND PRESENTING A 2657 01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:16,680 VERY EXCITING PERCEPTIVE WAY OF 2658 01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:19,120 CAUSING US TO ALL, EVERYBODY, TO 2659 01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:22,480 TAKE A HARD LOOK AT WHERE WE 2660 01:48:22,480 --> 01:48:23,720 THINK WE ARE. 2661 01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:24,560 >> THANK YOU. 2662 01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:30,920 >> WE WANT TO JUST MENTION TWO 2663 01:48:30,920 --> 01:48:35,160 THINGS. 2664 01:48:35,160 --> 01:48:37,560 2665 01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:40,200 OUR ASSOCIATES IN THIS PROGRAM, 2666 01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:42,160 GOING TO CHAIR THE NEXT THREE 2667 01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:44,160 SESSIONS OF THIS COURSE, AS I 2668 01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:47,280 WILL BE IN A PART OF THE WORLD 2669 01:48:47,280 --> 01:48:49,200 WHERE WE'RE NOT SURE ABOUT HOW 2670 01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:51,600 RELIABLE THE CONNECTIONS ARE 2671 01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:53,000 GOING TO BE. 2672 01:48:53,000 --> 01:48:56,720 AND THE NEXT SESSION IS ON 2673 01:48:56,720 --> 01:49:00,200 FEBRUARY 1, AND SPEAKERS ARE 2674 01:49:00,200 --> 01:49:03,480 MIKE LEONARDO OF NIAID, AND 2675 01:49:03,480 --> 01:49:07,200 HELEN SU, DEFINING GENES 2676 01:49:07,200 --> 01:49:09,240 UNDERLYING MENDELIAN 2677 01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:10,400 IMMUNOLOGICAL DISORDERS, LEADS 2678 01:49:10,400 --> 01:49:11,560 TO PRECISION MEDICINE 2679 01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:11,920 INTERVENTIONS. 2680 01:49:11,920 --> 01:49:15,000 I'M SURE IT WILL BE A VERY 2681 01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:15,840 EXCITING PRESENTATION. 2682 01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:19,480 SO THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. 2683 01:49:19,480 --> 01:49:21,920 AND STAY WELL. 2684 01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:22,640 >> THANK YOU. 2685 01:49:22,640 --> 00:00:00,000 >> THANK YOU.