>>WELCOME TO THE
2022 SERIES OF
WOMEN LEADERS IN ANY
RESEARCH, A MONTHLY SERIES
BROUGHT IN BY THE NIH CENTER
FOR INTERVENTIONAL
ONCOLOGY. I'M BRAD WOOD ONE
OF THE HOSTS,
ALTHOUGH THIS IS HOSTED BY
THE WHOLE CENTER AND
THE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE.
>> (MULTIPLE AUDIO)
>> DR. WOOD:
SERIES HAS RECENTLY BEEN
RENAMED EMPOWERMENT OF
UNDERREPRESNETED RESEARCHERS
TO BE MORE
INCLUSIVE OURSELVES FOR THE
UNDERREPRESENTED
GROUPS EXTENDING BEYOND WOMEN
JUST BEYOND
INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY OR
ONE DISCIPLINE AND
TODAY'S SPEAKER WE ARE SUPER
HAPPY TO HAVE AMY
DEIPOLYI, MD, PHD, WHO WOULD
SHARE:
YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU
WANT: BUT, WAIT,
WHAT DO I EVEN WANT?
---
THIS IS HOPEFULLY A VERY
EXCITING TALK. IT
SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT LIKE
A ROLLING STONES SONG TO ME.
MY FATHER USED TO PLAY IT
AND PUT ME TO BED
WHEN I WAS LITERALLY SIX
PLANES A LOT ABOUT ME.
YOU CANNOT ALWAYS GET WHAT
YOU TIME.
>> HELLO EVERYONE.
THE IDEA IS TO FOSTER AND
EMPOWER MENTORSHIP,
ROLE MODELING, INCLUDING TEAM
SCIENCE AND CAREER
DEVELOPMENT BY HIGHLIGHTING
SOLUTIONS AT THE
INTERFACE OF SCIENCE INDUSTRY
AND ACADEMIA.
AND WE HONOR AND HIGHLIGHT
WOMEN AS
UNDERREPRESENTED LEADERS.
>> DR. WOOD:
TO BETTER PRACTICE WHAT WE
PREACH AS A WHITE
MALE, I AM SHARING HOST
DUTIES FROM HERE ON.
JOIN ME IN WELCOMING OUR
NEWLY APPOINTED
CHAIRWOMAN JOCELYNE RIVERA,
AN NIH -- SCHOLAR
WHO WORKS JOINTLY BETWEEN NIH
AND THE CIO AND
OXFORD.
THANK YOU FOR THE FOLKS IN
CIO, MEDICAL RESEARCH
PROGRAM, -- -- AND CLINICAL
CENTER TO HAVE
HELPED MAKE THIS SERIOUS
SUCCESSFUL WITH REALLY
MANY THOUSANDS OF VIEWERS
LAST YEAR.
OUR FIRST YEAR REALLY FAR
EXCEEDED OUR OWN
EXPECTATIONS.
THANK YOU ALL FOR MAKING THIS
A SUCCESSFUL
SERIES. JOCELYNE ALL YOURS.
>> THANK YOU FOR THE
INTRODUCTION.
I WANT TO MENTION THAT I AM
TRULY HONORED TO BE
HERE AND VERY GRATEFUL TO YOU
FOR PROVIDING ALL
OF US EXCEPT SPACE TO TALK
ABOUT THE THINGS
THAT WE ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE
TO TALK ABOUT.
I WANT TO INVITE YOU TO THE
UPCOMING LECTURES.
FEBRUARY 2, MONA FLORES,
-- WE WILL START WITH THREE
QUOTES THAT BRAD AND
I FOUND VERY INTERESTING.
SOMETHING THAT SUITS WITH US.
---
THE FIRST ONE IS FROM RALPH
WALDO EMERSON. HE
SAID, THE ONLY PERSON YOU ARE
DESTINED TO BECOME
IS THE PERSON YOU DECIDE TO
BE.
---
THE SECOND ONE IS FROM REV.
MARTIN LUTHER KING
JR. WHO SAID THE ULTIMATE
MEASURE OF A MAN OR
WOMAN IS NOT WHERE HE OR SHE
STANDS IN MOMENTS
OF COMFORT AND CONVENIENCE
BUT WHERE HE OR SHE
STANDS AT TIMES OF CHALLENGE
AND CONTROVERSY.
AND SO WE HAVE A QUOTE FROM A
WOMAN AS WELL,
CHRISTINE CRUZ VERGARA.
SHE SAID TO FOCUS ON
CLARIFYING THE VALUES AND
WHAT LIES MY DECISIONS AND IS
ACCORDINGLY, WHILE
IT IS QUITE FRANKLY IT
FOREVER PRESSES MY POWER
AND STRENGTH COMES FROM
KNOWING MYSELF, BEING
MYSELF AND NEVER GETTING TO
THE POINT WHERE I
HAVE LOST WHO I AM. I THINK
THAT IS MY FAVORITE
ONE.
---
SO THE LECTURE TITLE FOR
TODAY'S SERIES IS, YOU
CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU
WANT: BUT, WAIT, WHAT
DO I EVEN WANT?
THAT IS A HUGE QUESTION AND I
AM LOOKING FORWARD
TO HEARING DR. DEIPOLYI.
QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION WILL
BE AFTER THE
LECTURE SO DON'T HESITATE TO
PARTICIPATE AND WE
WILL CHECK THE CHAT AS WELL
AND ARE SPEAKER
TODAY IS AMY DEIPOLYI,
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AND
DIRECTOR OF INTERVENTION
RADIOLOGY AT WEST
VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY IN
CHARLESTON AND TRAINED AT
MGH AND WAS ATTENDING -- AT
NYU MEMORIAL
SLOAN-KETTERING CANCER CENTER
BEFORE
TRANSITIONING TO WVU.
---
SHE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT
WOMEN'S HEALTH AND
INCLUSIVE BODY AND
PRESENTATION OF IMMINENT
RADIOLOGY AND OTHER
MALE-DOMINATED MEDICAL
PROFESSIONS AND SHE HAS
PURSUED THIS MISSION TO
RESEARCH, CLINICAL WORK AND
MENTORSHIP OF
ASPIRING PHYSICIAN
SCIENTISTS; OVER THE LAST
FIVE YEARS AT NUMBER
SLOAN-KETTERING CANCER
CENTER SHE SPECIALIZED IN
TREATING METHODS FOR
BREAST CANCER WHICH
PREDOMINANTLY IMPACT WOMEN
IN CONDUCTING RESEARCH ON
IMMUNOLOGY IMPACT OF
-- BREAST CANCER LIVER
METASTASIS. SHE HAS ALSO
RESEARCHED CANCER BIAS
INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY
AND FOUND THAT DESPITE WOMEN
DELIVERING THE SAME
QUALITY AND QUANTITY OF
CLINICAL CARE, THEY ARE
UNDERREPRESENTED IN INDUSTRY
PAYMENTS AND UNDER
IDENTIFIED AS KEY OPINION
LEADERS IN THE FIELD.
VERY INTERESTING AND I AM
GOING TO PASS IT NOT
TO ANNA.
SHE WILL CONTINUE WITH THE
LECTURE SYNOPSIS.
>> ANNA: THANK YOU JOCELYNE.
I WILL READ THE SYNOPSIS
BEFORE HEADING OVER TO
DR. DEIPOLYI.
BEING A WOMAN IN MEDICINE
INVOLVES CHALLENGES
AND MANY OF THE CHALLENGES
ARE AMPLIFIED IN
INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY.
AFTER SPENDING YEARS DOING
CLINICAL RESEARCH, I
HAVE SHIFTED FOCUS
TO ADMINISTRATIVE AND
PRACTICE BUILDING
ACTIVITIES.
I WILL TALK ABOUT HOW PLANNED
AND UNEXPECTED
LIFE EVENTS SHAKE MY CAREER
PATH, SHAPE MY
PRIORITIES AND ALTERED
WHAT I DEFINE A SUCCESS AND
REFRAMEWHAT I
BELIEVE YIELDS HAPPINESS.
WE'LL DISCUSS HOW MENTORS
HAVE SHAPED
MY DECISIONS AND HELP ME
IDENTIFY AND OVERCOME
BARRIERS.
NO MENTOR IS PERFECT AND EVEN
WELL-MEANING ONES
CAN GIVE BAD ADVICE, BUT EVEN
THAT ADVICE CAN BE
HELPFUL. SO NOW DR. DEIPOLYI,
YOU CAN BEGIN
WHENEVER.
>> THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH AND
I AM SO HONORED TO
BE HERE SPEAKING YOU TODAY
LAST YEAR.
THANK YOU TO DR. WOOD OUR NEW
HOST AND IT IS
WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU GUYS.
I HAVE BEEN AN INTERVENTIONAL
RADIOLOGY FOR
SEVEN YEARS OF PRACTICE AND
HAD THE GREAT
FORTUNE AT THE LIVING IN SOME
OF THE MOST AMAZING
CITIES ON THE PLANET, NEW
YORK CITY, SAN
FRANCISCO, BOSTON.
I RECENTLY SHIFTED GEARS AND
TOOK A NEW POSITION
IN WEST VIRGINIA
I THINK FOR MOST OF MY
FRIENDS AND FAMILY
AND COLLEAGUES IT WAS KIND OF
A BIG SHOCK
TO GO FROM THE CITY ATMOSPHERE
AND SWITCH OVER TO A PLACE
WHERE I KNEW NO ONE,
AND I KIND OF FOUND HIS
BOUNDLESS NATURAL BEAUTY
AND
MOUNTAIN BUT NOT A SINGLE
APPLE STORE. PERHAPS
SOME PEOPLE WOULD
CHARACTERIZE IT AS A MIDLIFE
CRISIS,
AND FOR SOME PEOPLE
YOU KNOW AND MIDLIFE CRISIS
MEANS YOU
GET DIVORCED AND BUY A FANCY
SPORTS CAR AND FOR
ME I MOVED TO THE SUBURBS AND
BOUGHT A PRIUS.
---
WE LOOK AT HOW I GOT HERE
STEP-BY-STEP
MAYBE IT WILL MAKE MORE SENSE
TO YOU GUYS. TO
THINK ABOUT HOW IT ENDED UP
WHERE I AM NOW, I
HAVE TO GO BACK TO MY
UNDERGRADUATE YEARS
WHICH WAS THE FIRST TIME WHEN
I REALLY WAS PHASED
WITH A DECISION ABOUT WHAT I
WAS GOING TO DO,
WHAT I WAS GOING TO MAJOR IN.
GROWING UP I WAS ALWAYS A
HUGE NERD.
I WAS GOOD AT MATH AND
SCIENCE; I COMPETED IN
MATH CONTESTS.
THESE DAYS I CAN HARDLY DO
ARITHMETIC BUT BACK
THEN I WAS LIKE A MATH
GENIUS.
THIS WAS ME ON A PHYSICS
TEAM, ME AND A BUNCH OF
DUDES. BEING A NERD,
I CANNOT IMAGINE SENDING OFF
MY DAUGHTER TO
DETERMINE LIKE THIS BUT THOSE
WERE THE GOOD
TIMES AND I WAS DOING MATH
AND SCIENCE AND WHEN THINKING
IN COLLEGE ON WHAT
I WAS GOING TO FOCUS ON,
HAVING FAMILY MEDICINE, I
LIKE SCIENCE SO MAYBE
THINK ABOUT BEING A DOCTOR,
MAYBE DO SOMETHING
IN SCIENCE.
---
EARLY ON I TOOK THIS AMAZING
CLASS THAT
BASICALLY HAD AN ENGLISH
PROFESSOR
AND A PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR.
IT WAS THIS
MULTIDISCIPLINARY CLASS
LOOKING AT THE FREUDIAN
PSYCHOANALYSIS OF
SHAKESPEAREAN DRAMA, IT WAS
SO
COOL.
LOOKING AT WHAT MOTIVATES
PEOPLE TO BEHAVE
THE WAY THEY DO HUMAN
BEHAVIOR IS SO FASCINATING
AND WONDERING TO ME AND I
DECIDED I WOULD DO
THAT.
---
THE TIME I WAS AT HARVARD
UNIVERSITY.
THEY HAVE THIS PROGRAM CALLED
MIND, BRAIND AND
BEHAVIOR.
YOU GOT TO CHOOSE HOW YOU GOT
INVESTIGATE
NEUROSCIENCE TONIGHT
CHOSE TO TRACK COGNI YOU
ASSIGNED TO MAJOR IN
PSYCHOLOGY AND A MINOR IN
BIOLOGY AND SATISFY
MY PRIMARY REQUIREMENT WHICH
WAS PERFECT AND I
JOINED HIS PRIMARY RESEARCH
LAB. WE HAD THESE
TAMERINS IN CAPTIVITY AND
THESE ARE THE SIZE OF
A BIG NEW YORK CITY RAT.
I BUILT THIS FAKE JUNGLE IN
THE LAB AND THEY
WOULD RUN AROUND AND I WOULD
TEST THEIR SPATIAL
KNOWLEDGE AND WORKING WITH
MINI MARSHMALLOWS
AND HAD TO CAPTURE THEM BACK
AND PUT THEM BACK
IN THEIR HOUSING.
GOD KNOWS WHAT KIND OF USEFUL
KNOWLEDGE CAN BE GAINED FROM
SUCH AN ENDEAVOR
BUT I MANAGED TO GET A
PUBLICATION OR TWO IN MY
COLLEGE THESIS FROM THIS.
---
AND THEN OF COURSE AFTER THIS
GREAT EXPERIENCE,
COMES THE END OF COLLEGE AND
AGAIN IT WAS LIKE
OH GOD I ACTUALLY HAVE TO
MAKE UP MY MIND ABOUT
SOMETHING. I MIGHT AS WELL BE
A DOCTOR.
IT'S A GOOD CAREER. IT IS
STABLE.
I CAN HELP PEOPLE.
SO I WENT ABOUT SOLICITING
SOME LETTERS OF
RECOMMENDATION. AND THAT
BRINGS US TO ONE OF MY
FIRST, MOST IMPORTANT
MENTORS, DR. SIMONS, PROF.
SIMONS.
HE LED THIS UNDERGRADUATE
CLASS THAT LOOKED AT
ATTENTION.
THIS IS A SIDEBAR. I DON'T
KNOW HOW MANY SAW
THIS ON TV. THERE WAS AN
EXPERIMENT THAT WE RAN
WHERE THERE WAS A WHITE TEAM
AND A BLACK TEAM
AND THEY WOULD PASS THE
BASKETBALL, EACH TEAM
WOULD PASS THE BALL AMONG
THEMSELVES AND THE
TASK WOULD BE TO WATCH THE
VISION COUNT HOW
MANY PASSES ONE OF THE TEAMS
MADE OVER A MINUTE.
HALFWAY THROUGH THE VIDEO A
PERSON DRESSED IN A
GORILLA SUIT
WALKS THROUGH THE VIDEO AND
FEWER THAN HALF OF
THE SUBJECT NOTICE THE
GORILLA WALKING THROUGH
WHICH IS COOL BECAUSE IT SAYS
SOMETHING ABOUT
SELECTIVE ATTENTION AND THAT
IS HOW HE BUILT HIS
CAREER. WE RECORDED THIS
MOVIE IN THE BUILDING
UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND THIS
IS ME, FACED AWAY
FROM THE CAMERA AND I WILL
TELL YOU THAT
HARVARD STUDENTS ARE VERY --
WELL THERE VERY
UN-ATHLETIC -- IT TOOK A LOT
OF HOURS TO FILM
THIS BECAUSE
THEY KEPT HITTING EACH OTHER
WITH THE BALLS.
WE DID THIS EXPERIMENT WHICH
WAS VERY COOL.
AND SO WE WOULD TRICK ALL
KINDS OF UNWITTING
SUBJECTS
INTO HAVING SELECTIVE
ATTENTION AND IT WAS
INTERESTING.
---
ANYWAY I WENT UP TO HIM.
HE HAD BEEN ON THE THESIS
COMMITTEE AND I ASKING
FOR A LETTER OF
RECOMMENDATION FOR MEDICAL
SCHOOL. HE SAID TO ME, THAT
IS REALLY TOO BAD.
I AM DISAPPOINTED. YOU HAVE
SUCH A GOOD MIND FOR SCIENCE
I HOPED YOU WENT TO
GRAD SCHOOL AND THIS IS A BIG
DISAPPOINTMENT FOR
ME.
SO THIS WAS POSITIVE
REINFORCEMENT, IT WAS
WONDERFUL, OR MAYBE HE OPENED
MY EYES TO IT TO
REALIZING HOW I DID LIKE
SCIENCE. YEAH, MAYBE I
SHOULD JUST SCIENCE TOO, REAL
SCIENCE NOT JUST
BEING A DOCTOR.
AND I STARTED LOOKING INTO IT.
---
I DISCOVERED THAT THERE WERE
COMBINED PROGRAMS,
MD/PHD PROGRAMS FUNDED BY TAX
DOLLARS THAT YOU
COULD GO
AND GET YOUR PHD
AND DO YOUR MD AND HE DID NOT
HAVE ANY DEBT AND
DELAYING IMPORTANT DECISIONS
TO LATER AND DO
SCIENCE. AND SO I APPLIED TO
THAT.
---
HE COULD HAVE SAID SURE,
I WILL WRITE YOU A LETTER AND
I WOULD'VE GONE TO
MED SCHOOL AND STAYED IN THE
NORTHEAST IN MY
WHOLE LIFE WOULD HAVE BEEN
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
I LIKE TO CALLING THIS THE
BUTTERFLY EFFECT THEORY OF
MENTORSHIP, WHERE EVEN
THE SMALLEST THING A MENTOR
CAN DO CAN RESULT IN
BIG LIFELONG CONSEQUENCES FOR
THE MENTEE.
LIKE A FLAP OF A BUTTERFLY
WING CAN RESULT IN A
TORNADO STORM IN ANOTHER PART
OF THE WORLD.
---
MAYBE LIKE I DON'T KNOW
DRIVE-BY MENTORSHIP OR
SOMETHING. REGARDLESS HE MADE
A REALLY BIG IMPACT ON ME
JUST WITH THIS COMMENT
AND ENCOURAGEMENT ABOUT ME
BEING A SCIENTIST.
THEN I STARTED GOING ON THE
INTERVIEW TRAIL. I
TRACED IT TO THE POINT AT
WHICH THE BIRTH OF THE
CONCEPT --
THE CONCEPT OF BEING A
PHYSICIAN SCIENTIST.
I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYONE WOULD
EXPECT THE COLLEGE
STUDENT TO HAVE ANY CONCEPT
OF ANYTHING,
BUT AT LEAST THE NARRATIVE
THAT I WOULD TELL ON
THE INTERVIEW TRAILS IS THAT
I'M GOING TO
HAVE A DISCOVERY GIVEN TO THE
PATIENT, LIKE DR.
HOUSE OR SOMETHING. I WANT TO
DO SCIENCE LIKE
THE REAL THING
OF DISCOVERY AND DIRECTLY
IMPACT THE PEOPLE ON
THE FLOOR. THAT NARRATIVE
LANDED ME A SPOT IS SAN
FRANCISCO THE UNIVERSITY
OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO
WHICH IS A GREAT
MEDICAL SCHOOL AND THEY
HAPPEN TO HAVE LIKE THE
TOP NEUROSCIENCE GRADUATE
PROGRAM AT THE TIME SO
IT WAS A PERFECT MATCH FOR MY
NEUROSCIENCE
INTEREST AND BACKGROUND.
---
AND THIS WAS MY YEAR IN THE
MSTP, MEDICAL
SCIENTIST TRAINING PROGRAM
JUST ME AND A BUNCH
OF DUDES. IT DID NOT STRIKE
ME AS STRANGE AT THE
TIME I DID NOT NOTICE HOW
WEIRD IT WAS.
EVERY YEAR THAT WOULD BE
MAYBE ONE WOMAN OR
ZERO. I DON'T HAVE PICTURES
FROM THAT TIME,
WAY BEFORE THE IPHONE SO I
PULLED THE PICTURES
FROM THE INTERNET NOW. WE
LOOKED YOUNGER THEN.
---
MEDICAL SCHOOL WAS SORT OF
LIKE A GOOD TIME. THE
FIRST TWO YEARS WAS LIKE
ANIMAL HOUSE, MEETING
ALL THESE PEOPLE AND IT'S
FUN. YOU HAVE TO SHOW
UP AND STUDY AND WORK ON A
LONG AS YOU DO THAT
IT WAS GOOD
BUT THEN THERE WAS A RUDE
AWAKENING
WHEN AFTER TWO YEARS YOU DO
YOUR PHD
AND OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO
START MAKING DECISIONS
AGAIN. APPARENTLY THAT WAS
DIFFICULT FOR ME.
---
AND SO, AS IT TURNED OUT, THE
UCSF NEUROSCIENCE
PROGRAM
WAS PHENOMENAL BUT IT WAS
VERY MUCH BASIC
SCIENCE. SO THE CHOICES OF
WHAT SORT OF STUDIES
YOU COULD DO WERE LIMITED
TO BASICALLY
CELL CULTURE,
COMPUTATIONAL ON YOU COULD
WORK WITH ANIMALS BUT
IT WOULD BE LIKE PUTTING
ELECTRODES IN THE
BRAINS NOT BUILDING JUNGLES
FOR MONKEYS AND
REWARDING THEM WITH
MARSHMALLOWS.
---
JOSLIN WAS MY CLOSEST FRIEND
AT THE TIME AND WE
BOTH WANTED TO DO
COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE
WE DID NOT HAVE A WAY TO DO
IT THERE. WE
IDENTIFIED THIS CENTER WITHIN
UCSF CALL THE
MEMORY AND AGING CENTER WHICH
IS IN THE
DEPARTMENT OF NEUROLOGY, THE
PI OF THAT CENTER
DR. MILLER WAS
FAMOUS FOR STUDYING FRONTAL
TEMPORAL DEMENTIA,
AND THEY DID MRI AND IMAGING
WORK ON THOSE
PATIENTS
AND WE REALLY WANTED TO WORK
WITH HIM BUT HE WAS
NOT IN THE GRADUATE PROGRAM
OFFICIALLY. WE MET
WITH ONE OF THE LEADERS OF
THE MSTP AND WE
ASKED, COULD YOU
GIVE HIM AN HONORARY
MEMBERSHIP IN YOUR GRADUATE
PROGRAM WHICH
OFFENDED HIM FOR SOME REASON
AND HE BASICALLY
SAID
WE WERE NOT REALLY SCIENTISTS
AND WE SHOULD
LEAVE THE PROGRAM AND GO TO
MEDICAL SCHOOL AND
GET ON WITH OUR LIVES. AND HE
ACTUALLY CALLED US
BACK TO APOLOGIZE FOR HAVING
SAID THAT BUT STILL
NOT VERY HELPFUL.
---
IN THE END WE ENDED UP
CARTING AROUND PATH WHERE
WE WORK IN THE MEMORY AND
AGING CENTER WITH DR.
MILLER DOING THESE
EXPERIMENTS ON HUMAN
SUBJECTS. BUT WE ALSO HAD TO
BE IN A PROPER
SCIENTIFIC LAB.
FOR ME THAT WAS IN AN
ALZHEIMER'S RESEARCH LAB
THAT HAD A -- MOUSE MODEL.
FOR SOME REASON I AM REALLY
INTERESTED IN
SPATIAL KNOWLEDGE AND I BUILT
THESE MAZES THAT
MICE HAD TO SWIM AND CHOPPED
UP THEIR BRAINS AND
LOOK AT HOW DISEASE
PATTERNS IN THE BRAINS
CORRELATED WITH THE
DEFICITS
AND IN HUMANS AND RECRUITED
THEM. UP WITH THEM
IN WHEELCHAIRS AND WHEELED
THEM AROUND THE
NEUROLOGY CLINIC. AND THEN
AFTERWARDS TESTED
ASPECTS OF THEIR MEMORY FOR
THE ROUTE AND
CORRELATED THEIR DEFICITS
WITH ATROPHY ON
STRUCTURAL BRAIN IMAGING.
AND AGAIN THIS WAS NOT
GROUNDBREAKING, NOBEL
PRIZE WINNING WORK BY ANY
MEANS.
---
WE KNEW THAT THE HIPPOCAMPUS
WAS SUPER IMPORTANT
FOR SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE AND
MENU THAT ALZHEIMER'S
IMPACT HIPPOCAMPUS BUT I
MANAGED TO GET TWO
PAPERS OUT OF THAT AND I
SWEAR TO GOD FINISHING
GRAD SCHOOL WAS THE HAPPIEST
DAY OF MY WHOLE
LIFE BECAUSE IT WAS A SLOG TO
FIND THIS PATH AND
GET THROUGH ESPECIALLY THE
MOUSE WORK BUT I DID
IT.
---
AND I HAD PHENOMENAL
MENTORSHIPS DURING THIS
TIME.
I DID GET WHAT I
CONSIDER BAD ADVICE FROM ONE
OF MY MENTORS WHO
TOLD ME THAT HE THOUGHT
THAT THE BEST WAY FOR ME TO
BE AS A FEMALE
SCIENTIST, TO BE MORE LIKE
CYNTHIA KENYON. SHE
IS A BRILLIANT SCIENTIST,
AWARD-WINNING
SCIENTIST. SHE DISCOVERED
THAT IF YOU STARVE AN
ANIMAL, LIKE IF YOU ONLY FEED
A WORM EVERY OTHER
DAY IT LIVES TWICE AS LONG.
SHE TRIED THEM HERSELF AND
LOST 60 LBS. SHE WAS
AN AMAZING SCIENTIST. I THINK
SHE'S 200 YEARS
NOW, KIDDING.
SHE HAD A HIGH-PITCHED,
CALIFORNIA VIBE. LIKE
DITZY BLONDE.
BUT THEN SHE WOULD SAY
SOMETHING INSIGHTFUL.
I GUESS IN HIS VIEW IT WAS
FAR BETTER THAN BEING
DIRECT AND FORWARD. IT WAS
MUCH BETTER TO BE LIKE
A GENIUS IN DISGUISE
IF YOU WERE A WOMAN BECAUSE
OTHERWISE IT WAS NO
WAY TO SURVIVE IN THIS
PROFESSION I GUESS.
---
EVEN IF I WANTED TO PRETEND
TO BE DIFFERENT I
DON'T THINK THAT WAS GOING TO
BE FEASIBLE.
I THINK I WORE MY HEART ON MY
SLEEVE AND I THINK
HE WAS WRONG.
---
YOU MAY BE AWARE OF THE STUDY
THAT LOOKED AT
SUPREME COURT JUSTICES. EVEN
THE WOMEN SUPREME
COURT JUSTICES SPEAK LESS OF
THE TIME THEY ARE
INTERRUPTED TWICE AS MUCH AS
THEIR MALE
COUNTERPARTS.
THERE ARE PSYCHOLOGY
EXPERIMENTS THAT SHOW THAT
SUBJECT PREFER WOMEN IN
LEADERSHIP POSITIONS TO
HAVE DEEPER VOICES ARE
SPEAKING IN THIS HIGH
PITCH, DITZY THING, IS NOT AN
EFFECTIVE STRATEGY
IN IF YOU WANTED TO PRETEND
TO BE LIKE THAT.
---
I HAD ALSO AN AMAZING THESIS
COMMITTEE CHAIR,
DR. JENNIFER LAVAIL. SHE WAS
5'2",
AND SHE HAD A NATURALLY
HIGH-PITCHED VOICE AND
SHE STRUGGLED TO BE HEARD IN
THE
FIELD AND HER ADVICE WAS
BEFORE YOU GIVE TALKS
GET ANGRY.
GOING TO THE BATHROOM. GET
YOURSELF REVVED UP,
OR RUN UP AND DOWN THE
STAIRS. NOT EXACTLY SURE
BUT FOR HER IT WAS HARD TO BE
HEARD.
SO GETTING UP THE ENERGY TO
BE HEARD.
---
I THINK THESE POINTS SPEAK TO
THIS, I GUESS
STEREOTYPE THAT MANY WOMEN
STRUGGLE WITH IN
MALE-DOMINATED FIELDS.
THERE'S TWO THINGS YOU
CAN BE: YOU CAN EITHER BE
LIKE THIS AGGRESSIVE,
CONFIDENT WOMAN WHOM PEOPLE
DO NOT LIKE THAT IS
EFFECTIVE. OR YOU CAN BE THE
REALLY SWEET,
MATERNAL HONEY, A PUSHOVER
ALL THE TIME.
TO BE HONEST IF I WERE GIVEN
THE CHOICE AND HAD
TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO I
WOULD TAKE GREEN
BITCH OVER SUGAR MAGNOLIA
EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK.
ALL I CAN BE AS MYSELF,
LIKE KURT COBAIN SAID, WANTED
TO BE SOMEONE ELSE
IS A WASTE OF THE PERSON YOU
ARE.
---
AT THE END OF THE DAY WOULD
WORK FOR ME IS THAT
EVEN IF I COME ACROSS AS
BEING AGGRESSIVE, AS
LONG AS I AM ADVOCATING FOR
SOMETHING THAT IS
JUST AND RIGHT, THAT IS
PROBABLY JUST THE WAY TO
GO.
---
ANYWAY SO ONE DAY WHEN I WAS
DOING MY HUMAN
EXPERIMENTS IN THE MEMORY
AND AGING CENTER WITH
ONE OF THESE PATIENTS IN A
WHEELCHAIR I WAS
NAVIGATING THROUGH THE
HALLWAY,
AND IT WAS REALLY HARD TO
RECRUIT HUMAN SUBJECTS
AS IT IS FOR EVERY
EXPERIMENT.
ANYWAY I AM GOING IN THE
HALLWAY AND THESE
LADIES, THE SECRETARIES IN
THE NEUROSURGERY
DEPARTMENT SAID YOU CANNOT
COME THROUGH HERE
THEY WERE HAVING A MEETING IN
HALLWAY.
NO YOU CANNOT COME. THAT WAS
A BIG WASTE OF THE
SUBJECT.
AND THEN I SAW THIS GUY DR.
ANDREW PARSA, AN
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT UCSF
AND HE WAS VERY
SUCCESSFUL,
AT A FULL CLINICAL SCHEDULE
AND WAS PUNISHING
PAPERS ON TUMOR VACCINES HE
WAS AMAZING.
I DECIDED TO GO IN TALK TO
HIM SO I INTRODUCED
MYSELF AND HOW I TAKE THE
PATIENT'S ON A
WHEELCHAIR AND CAN I HAVE
PERMISSION TO DO IT.
AND SPEAKING WITH ME HE SAID
YEAH YOU CAN DO
THAT BY NOW YOU HAVE TO BE ON
TEAM PARSA.
---
SO HE HAD TEAM PARSA, A GROUP
OF TRAINEES
RESIDENTS, MEDICAL STUDENTS
WHOM HE MENTORED AND
WE WERE CONTINUALLY WRITING
PAPERS LIKE A CHILD
LABOR PAPER FACTORY.
IF YOU ARE ON TEAM PARSA YOU
ARE NOT JUST
WORKING WITH DR. PARSA. YOU
ARE GOING TO THANKS
GIVING DINNERS, YOU ARE PART
OF HIS LIFE. HE HAS
A WIFE, CHARLOTTE WHO IS AN
ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON
AND THEY HAVE THREE KIDS. I
ACTUALLY LIVED WITH
THEM FOR A FEW MONTHS AT THE
END AFTER MY LEASE
WAS UP BEFORE I LEFT SAN
FRANCISCO. AND ONLY WAS
HE A PROFESSIONAL MENTOR BUT
ALSO CARED ABOUT US
AS PEOPLE.
HE COINED 360-DEGREE
MENTORING, AND I WILL
ALWAYS REMEMBER HIM FOR THAT.
HE DEEPLY CARED ABOUT US
NOT JUST FOR THE WORK WE WERE
DOING BUT FOR THE
PEOPLE THAT WE WERE.
---
AND SO I OF COURSE REACHED
THE POINT WHERE I
UNFORTUNATELY HAD TO START
MAKING BIG DECISIONS
AGAIN.
THAT IS ONE THING IT WAS
GOING TO SPECIALIZE IN;
I AM BACK IN MED SCHOOL AND
YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP
YOUR MIND AND FOR ME LOVING
THE BRAIN IT WAS
LIKE A LIMITED NUMBER OF
THINGS: NEUROSURGERY
LIKE DR. PARSA, NEUROLOGY,
IMAGING, RADIOLOGY
AND PSYCHIATRY AND FOR ME I
WAS LEANING TOWARDS
PSYCH OR RADIOLOGY PEOPLE
WERE SAYING THAT IS
WEIRD. YOU USE SPECIALIST
TECHNIQUES TO LOOK AT
PEOPLE WITHOUT A PHYSICAL
EXAM WHICH IS FINE
BECAUSE I'M A BIT OF A GERM
PHOBE.
DR. PARSA SAID, YOU NEED TO
GO INTO
NEUROSURGERY, THE FIELD TO BE
IN.
I DON'T KNOW I'M STAYING WITH
YOU GUYS IN I SEE
YOU WORK EVERY SINGLE HOUR OF
EVERY DAY.
HE WAS A POWERHOUSE. HE WAS
RECRUITED THAT 45
YEARS OLD TO BE THE CHAIRMAN
OF NEUROSURGERY AT
NORTHWESTERN, SERIOUS. DR.
PARSA, I DON'T THINK
I CAN DO THE LIFESTYLE. TOO
MUCH. I DON'T THINK
I WOULD BE HAPPY. HE SAID
NEVER SAY THAT AGAIN
WHEN YOU GO ON YOUR
NEUROSURGERY RESIDENCY
INTERVIEWS DO NOT BRING IT UP
FOR SURE. IT'S OUR
SECRET THAT YOU EVER THOUGHT
THAT. OKAY. I THINK
I GREATLY DISAPPOINTED HIM
WHEN I ENDED UP
APPLYING RADIOLOGY BUT I
DECIDED LIKE LOOK, I
CAN DO NEURORADIOLOGY AND
THEN FRMI AND STUDY
HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND HOW THE
SCHOOL THING, THE
THING I WANT TO DO.
---
I WAS BACK ON THE ROAD ON THE
INTERVIEW TRAIL
AND TALKING ON DIFFERENT
PROGRAMS ABOUT THIS
NARRATIVE ABOUT THE PHYSICIAN
SCIENTIST. I WILL
BE THREE DAYS IN THE WAITING
ROOM AND THEN IN
THE LAB READING MRIS AND THIS
IS THE WAY I NEED
TO GET THERE SO THE PATH IS
SHAPING UP AND I
ENDED UP MATCHING AT MASS
GENERAL, BACK IN
BOSTON.
---
I HAD SORT OF A RUDE
AWAKENING.
I WAS BACK IN THE READING
ROOM, AND AS IT TURNED
OUT, I WILL SAY THAT
RADIOLOGY IS PROBABLY THE
SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT MEDICAL
FIELD BECAUSE WE
ARE DIAGNOSING THINGS WITH
IMAGES. IT'S SO
IMPACTFUL FOR PATIENTS. I
WILL SAY THAT.
---
FOR ME PERSONALLY THE IN A
DARK ROOM AND NOT
INTERACTING WITH PATIENTS WAS
CRUSHING. I
REMEMBER WALKING ONE DAY
OUTSIDE OF THE HOSPITAL
AND OVERHEARD A SURGEON
TALKING ABOUT THE
PEDIATRIC SURGICAL PATIENTS
INS AND OUTS. I WAS
SO JEALOUS.
LOOK AT HIM! WHAT AM I DOING?
I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THE
READING ROOM ANYMORE.
IT WAS A STRUGGLE.
I REMEMBER I HAD ONE OF MY
CLOSEST FRIENDS IN
RESIDENCY -- I THINK HE'S ON
TODAY -- USED TO
SAY WHAT ARE WE DOING? SHOULD
WE LEAVE AND APPLY
FOR A SURGERY RESIDENCY?
DID WE MAKE THE WRONG MOVE?
LUCKILY FOR BOTH OF US WE
ROTATED ON OUR IR
ROTATION AND THAT SAVED US IN
RADIOLOGY.
THAT IS WHEN I MET ONE OF MY
MOST IMPORTANT
MENTORS IN MY CAREER, RAHMI
OKAU, HE WAS
ATTENDING AT MDH, A LOT LIKE
DR. PARSA, PUBLISH,
PUBLISH, PUBLISH. PUBLISH OR
PERISH.
IF YOU'RE NOT WRITING PERISH
YOU BASICALLY DIE.
GOING THE OR AND WRITE
PAPERS.
---
I TOOK HIS ADVICE AND HAD TWO
YEARS WHERE HE WAS
MENTORING ME, ONE OF THE MOST
PRODUCTIVE IN
TERMS OF WRITING. WE WROTE,
WROTE PAPERS.
THESE WERE A HANDFUL OF
PAPERS BECAUSE I AM NOT
EVEN INCLUDING ALL OF OURS
ARE THE ONES I
PUBLISH WITH OTHER PEOPLE.
IT WAS A VERY PRODUCTIVE
TIME. AND I TOOK SOME
ADVICE AND WENT INTO IR.
---
THERE ARE SO FEW PICTURES
FROM BACK THEN BECAUSE
WE DID NOT HAVE IPHONES, ME
AND THE DUDES AGAIN.
I GOT USED TO IT.
I'M SURE YOU RECOGNIZE A LOT
OF PEOPLE HERE.
IT WAS FUN.
IT WAS A GOOD TIME.
---
AND AT THE END OF THAT I WAS
SORT OF LIKE ON THE
PATH OF ACADEMIC IR.
I REMEMBER IN THE LAST DAY
OF MY FELLOWSHIP I
GOT SOME ADVICE FROM PETER
MUELLER, A VERY
IMPORTANT MENTOR FOR ME. AT
THIS POINT I HAVE
KNOWN HIM FOR FIVE YEARS. HE
IS INCREDIBLE AND I
AM PROUD TO BE MUELLER
TRAINED.
ONE THINK YOU SAID THAT I
WOULDN'T FORGET IS
THAT DOING CASES IS LIKE
PLAYING SPORTS. YOU
HAVE TO GO IN THERE WITH FULL
CONFIDENCE EVEN IF
IT IS A COMPLICATED THING YOU
HAVE NEVER DONE
BEFORE.
YOU GO IN AND SAY I GOT THIS,
AND YOU DO IT.
I TRY TO DO THAT IN MY CASE
IS AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE, TO HAVE A POSITIVE
OUTLOOK.
---
THE OTHER THING HE TOLD ME
RIGHT BEFORE I LEFT
IS THAT I NEEDED TO GET
MARRIED AS SOON AS
POSSIBLE.
I INCLUDE THIS LINE FROM HIM
BECAUSE I THINK IN
TODAY'S CLIMATE, WE'VE GONE A
LITTLE BIT
OVERBOARD. IT'S DIFFICULT
BECAUSE THERE ARE
STILL PROBLEMS OF EXCLUSION
AND CHAUVINISM,
ETC., ETC. BUT THERE ARE
ACTUALLY THINGS THAT WE
SHOULD TALK ABOUT
AND THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE
TO TALK ABOUT AND
MENTOR SHOULD BE ABLE TO TALK
ABOUT WITH THEIR
MENTEES WITHOUT BEING
POLITICALLY CORRECT OR
SOMETHING.
I KNEW HIM FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
AND ALSO HE WAS RIGHT, HE WAS
CORRECT.
--- I HAD DATED MANY MEN,
SURGEONS, LAWYERS,
UNEMPLOYED MEN, HAD NOT WORK
FOR ME AND I'M
APPROACHING 35 FINISHING UP
MY FELLOWSHIP AND
THE FACT IS THAT BY 35 THE
VAST MAJORITY OF
PEOPLE ARE MARRIED EVEN
DOCTORS.
MOST MEN ARE MARRIED AND LESS
THAN HALF OF WOMEN
ARE MARRIED. I FELT LIKE I
WAS LEFT ON THE TRAIN
STATION'S PLATFORM. WHERE DID
EVERYBODY GO?
---
AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAVE
CAREER GOALS AND
PERSONAL GOALS AND WE HAVE TO
FIGURE A WAY TO
MAKE IT WORK TOGETHER
AND NOT JUST COMPLETELY FOCUS
ON THE CAREER AT
THE EXPENSE OF OTHER THINGS.
SO LUCKY FOR ME, AT
THE TIME THERE WERE ONLY TWO
ACADEMIC IR
POSITIONS IN THE US THAT
YEAR. IT WAS A TERRIBLE
JOB MARKET. AWFUL.
AND I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET
THE ONE IN NEW
YORK CITY, AT NYU, A DREAM
JOB. PROBLEM SOLVED.
MILLIONS OF SINGLE MEN, I
WILL FIND ONE THERE.
---
I STARTED MY JOB AT NYU AND
THIS IS WHERE I MET
DR. HEARNS CHARLES, ONE OF
THE MOST AMAZING
MENTORS I HAD. DR. CHARLES IS
ONE OF THOSE IRS
WITH TRULY GIFTED HANDS THAT
COULD DO ANYTHING
IN ANY BLOOD VESSEL. AND HE
WAS REALLY
INCREDIBLE. I WOULD LIKE RUN
EVERY CASE BY HAND
BEFORE HAND, COMPLEX CASES;
OVER HALF THE TIME I
WOULD HAVE TO SCRUB AND
DOUBLE SCRUB.
HE WAS ALWAYS IN MY CASES, SO
MUCH SO THAT THE
LEAD TECH IS TO SAY THAT I
WAS LIKE A BABY AT
THE TEAT, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS
A LITTLE OFFENSIVE
BUT IT WAS KIND OF TRUE.
---
IN ANY CASE I HAD A TERRIBLE
EXPERIENCE VERY
EARLY ON IN MY ATTENDINGHOOD.
I WAS TRYING TO DO
A BILIARY DRAINAGE, A LITTLE
WAYS INTO THE CASE
RECOGNIZED THAT I CAUSED THE
BLEED WITH THE
NEEDLE AND I CONVERTED TO AN
ANGIOGRAM AND DID
AN AMBOLIZATION, STRUGGLING
TO GET THE CASE
DONE. DR. CHARLES WAS LISTED
AS ON VACATION BUT
HE WAS THE KIND OF PERSON
THAT WOULD STAY EVERY DAY
UNTIL ALL THE CASES WERE
DONE; THAT IS THE KIND
OF LEADER HE WAS. I CALLED
HIM AND IN 10 MINUTES
HE HELPED ME FINISH THE CASE.
THE PATIENT SURVIVED THAT DAY
BUT DID NOT HAVE A
GOOD OUTCOME.
IT WAS VERY UNSETTLING.
IT WAS THE KIND OF THING THAT
MIGHT MAKE SOMEONE
LEAVE A FIELD, INTERVENTION
FIELD, AND I
REMEMBER SHAKING THE NEXT DAY
AND PULLED ME INTO
THE ULTRASOUND PROCEDURE ROOM
WHICH WAS EMPTY
WITH NO PATIENTS AND WE SAT
ON THE STRETCHER. HE
SAID TO ME, YOU ARE A GOOD
DOCTOR.
I WOULD HAVE YOU DO MY
BILIARY EVERY DAY OF THE
WEEK. I REMEMBER HIM SAY THAT
BECAUSE IT IS SO
EASY
TO BE JUDGMENTAL OR TO NOT, I
DON'T KNOW, PICK
APART, WHEN SOMEONE HAS A
COMPLICATION HE
DEFINITELY DID NOT DO THAT
AND HE
DID NOT WANT ME TO DO
HIS BILIARY EVER AFTER MY
PERFORMANCE BUT HE WAS
SO EMPATHIC
AND CONFIDENT IN ME THAT IT
HELP ME GET PAST
THAT. IT WAS REALLY WONDERFUL
OF HIM.
---
SO THEN LIKE A COUPLE OF
YEARS GOES BY. NYU WAS
A GREAT JOB;
I HAD A LITTLE ARMY OF
MEDICAL STUDENTS AND WE
WROTE A BUNCH OF LITTLE
PAPERS. AGAIN NOTHING
NOBEL PRIZE-WINNING.
I HAD SORT OF LIKE A LITTLE
LAB, AND MANY RAHMI
OR MINI DR. PARSA.
I WAS DOING INTERESTING
CASES.
I WAS PRETTY SATISFIED WITH
MY JOB
ALTHOUGH I WAS WORKING VERY
HARD BUT I LIKED IT.
--- AT ONE POINT RAHMI OKLU
SAID ME IS
SCREENSHOT OF A JOB POSTING A
SLOAN-KETTERING.
HE SAID, "APPLY!" AND I SAID
I'M HAPPY BUT HE
SAID JUST APPLY, IT DOES NOT
HURT TO LOOK AND
OBVIOUSLY SLOAN-KETTERING IS
LIKE A PALACE, THE
MECCA, THE WHITE IVORY TOWER
OF IR. WE HAD 12
FANCY PROCEDURE ROOMS AND AN
ARMY OF RESEARCH
STAFF. IT'S A REALLY SPECIAL
PLACE WHERE THERE'S
A LOT OF
POTENTIAL POSSIBILITY TO DO
INTERESTING
COLLABORATION IN RESEARCH AND
THERE ARE 25 OR SO
IR DOCTORS IN THE GROUP SO IT
TOOK LIKE
FOREVER TO APPLY THERE. I
KEPT GOING TO GO
UPTOWN AN INTERVIEW WITH THE
23RD AND 24TH, AND
OF THE COURSE OF THE
APPLICATION AND WHY YOU
CHANGED AND DR. CHARLES STEP
DOWN AND BROUGHT IN
THE NEW DIVISION CHIEF AND
THE WHOLE LANDSCAPE
CHANGED. ONLY A THIRD OR
QUARTER THE PEOPLE THAT
USED TO WORK THERE ARE STILL
THERE NOW. AND I
THOUGHT MAYBE THIS IS MY TIME
TO GO. MAYBE IT'S
A GOOD MOVE TO GO TO SLOAN.
OFF I WENT TO SLOAN-KETTERING
FOR I ENCOUNTERED
MY NEXT MENTOR DR. ERINJERY,
A SCIENTIST BY
NATURE.
HE WAS A GOOD PHYSICIAN
SCIENTIST MENTOR. HE
LOOKED AT MY CV AND HE SAID,
YOU HAVE
DOZENS OF PAPERS BUT THEY ARE
ALL RELATED TO
EACH OTHER. THERE IS NO
THEMATIC CONTENT HERE.
IT'S IMPRESSIVE IN ITS LENGTH
BUT IT IS GOING NOWHERE AND
YOU CANNOT BUILD A
PALACE FROM A PILE OF PEBBLES.
YOU HAVE TO BUILD SOMETHING
LIKE A PROJECT.
---
I TOLD YOU THAT THERE'S LIKE
25 DOCTORS AND WE
ALSO SPECIALIZED IN DIFFERENT
TYPES OF CANCER
AND UNFORTUNATELY LIKE
IT WAS ALREADY THE -- SECTOR
WAS FULLY
SATURATED, HEART AND SOUL OF
INTERVENTION
RADIOLOGY SO I ENDED UP BEING
ASSIGNED TO
METASTATIC BREAST CANCER, A
GOOD FIT FOR ME.
--- BASICALLY NOW THIS
VISION, THIS PATH TO
BECOME THE PHYSICIAN
SCIENTIST KIND OF TAKE
SHAPE. PICK A TOPIC:
METASTATIC BREAST CANCER.
TWO, WRITE A BUNCH OF
RESEARCH PAPERS APPLIED ON
SOCIETAL OR SEED GRANTS.
AND BASED ON THOSE PAPERS
APPLY FOR LARGER NIH
GRANTS AND STEP-BY-STEP BY
STEP SO THE PATH
BECOMES CLEAR TO WHERE I AM
HEADED. THAT IS WHAT
I DID.
I WROTE A BUNCH OF PAPERS
ABOUT LOCAL REGIONAL
THERAPY IN THE SETTING OF
BREAST CANCER.
---
FOR EXAMPLE THIS PAPER HERE
WE LOOKED AT THERMAL
-- OF LIVER TUMORS AND FOUND
THAT IF
YOU ACHIEVED A 5 MM OR
GREATER MARGIN YOU HAVE A
0% CHANCE OF DISEASE IN THAT
AREA MOST OF THE
WORK I DID WAS ABOUT Y 90.
I WOULD SAY MY TRUE INTEREST
IS IN ARTERIAL
WORK. WE FOUND THAT IF YOU
TREAT METASTATIC
BREAST CANCER TO THE LIVER
WITH Y 90 AND YOU
HAVE A RESPONSE HE SURVIVED
SIGNIFICANTLY LONGER.
AND THEN WE FOUND A BUNCH OF
DIFFERENT
PREDICTORS FOR RESPONSE. FOR
EXAMPLE CERTAIN
MUTATIONS.
--- WE ALSO FOUND THAT
SPECIFIC DOSE TO TUMOR
WILL ENABLE YOU TO ACHIEVE
OBJECTIVE RESPONSES
AND DEFINE
THE THRESHOLD AT 80 GREY
WHICH IS HELPFUL AND WE
DEFINED
WHAT YOU EXPECT TO SEE OVER
TIME ON THE PET CT
--
AND FINALLY WE IDENTIFIED ONE
PATIENT IN THE
COHORT WHO HAD NECK SCOPAL
EFFECT AND HAD
TERRIBLE METASTASIS AND GAVE
HER Y 90,
AND WE DID NOT CHANGE HER
SYSTEMIC THERAPY AND
SHE HAD A COMPLETE RESPONSE
IN LYMPH NODE AND
BONE. THAT IMPLIED THAT BY
TREATING THE LIVER
METS (PHONETIC) WE GENERATED
AN IMMUNITY TO THE
OTHER TUMORS THAT RESULTED IN
RESPONSES IN THESE EXTRA
PATHIC SITES WHICH WAS
REALLY COOL.
IT HAD NOT BEEN DESCRIBED IN
THE SETTING FOR Y
90.
--- AND WITH THIS INFORMATION
THAT SAID THE
BASIS FOR MY PERSPECTIVE
STUDY WHICH GOD LITTLE
GRANTS, SEED GRANTS, PILOT
GRANTS TO DO AND HAD
A COHORT OF ABOUT 20 MINUTES
AND WE WERE GETTING
THIS RADIAOEMBOLIZATION
TREATMENT COLLECTED THIS
TUMOR BASELINE AND THAT THE Y
90 AND WHEN THEY
CAME BACK THE SECOND Y 90
AND THERE WERE A NUMBER OF
DIFFERENT FINDINGS
BUT I THINK MOST INTERESTING
WAS THAT CERTAIN BASELINE
BIOMARKERS PREDICTED
RESPONSE, EVEN THOUGH THE
COHORT WAS ONLY 20 PEOPLE. SO
WE FOUND THAT IF
YOU HAD HIGH LEVELS OF
INFLAMMATORY PERIPHERAL
MARKERS YOU HAD SIGNIFICANTLY
WORSE OUTCOMES VS.
IF YOU HAD HIGHER LEVERS OF
PD 1 STAINING AND PD
1 POSITIVE CELLS IN THE
TUMOR, IN THE
MICROENVIRONMENT, YOU DID
SIGNIFICANT BETTER SO
THAT SUGGESTED THAT -- WERE
GOOD BIOMARKERS AND
PD-1 AGENTS WERE POTENTIAL
IMMUNOTHERAPIES FOR
COMBINATION STUDIES.
--- I WOULD SAY THAT THE
OVERALL PROJECT WAS
VERY SUCCESSFUL IN GOING
ALONG THIS MOUNTAIN
PATH LAID FOR ME.
---
THE OTHER REALLY COOL THING
ABOUT
SLOAN-KETTERING WAS FOR THE
FIRST TIME IT WASN'T
JUST ME AND A BUNCH OF DUDES.
THEY WERE ACTUALLY
SEVERAL REALLY AMAZING WOMEN
THAT I WORKED WITH.
LYNN BRODY, ANN -- AND KAREN
BROWN HAD BEEN
THERE FOR MANY YEARS AND ARE
SOME OF THE FINEST
DOCTORS
YOU WILL EVER MEET IN ANY
DISCIPLINE. WHAT WAS
REALLY INTERESTING WAS THAT
THIS WAS THE FIRST
TIME WHERE ALL THE LITTLE
THINGS LIKE THE FEMALE
NURSE SECOND-GUESSING YOU,
NOT BEING IS NICE TO YOU AS
THE MALE DOCTORS,
ETC., ALL OF THAT STUFF WAS
NOT THERE BECAUSE
THESE WOMEN HAD BEEN WHO THEY
WERE. AND I DID
NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT
BUT THERE WAS STILL
CHAUVINISM, LESS SO IN NEW
YORK, IN A BLUE STATE
BUT IS STILL THERE IN THE
INSTITUTION AND IN THE
FIELD. IT'S IRONIC BECAUSE
STUDIES SHOW THAT IF
YOU HAVE MORE WOMEN IN YOUR
WORKPLACE,
IT'S A BETTER WORKPLACE WITH
LESS BURNOUT AND
MORE JOB SATISFACTION SO IR
REALLY STRUGGLED TO RECRUIT
WOMEN INTO THE
WORKPLACE AND I WAS TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND REASONS
WHY.
---
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER
THIS WHOLE LIKE
PHENOMENA, I AM A SURGEON, I
LOOK LIKE A
SURGEON, AND SOMEBODY
PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE ABOUT
HOW HARD IT WAS TO BE A
SURGEON. SURGEONS ARE
40% WOMEN, TRY 10%, THAT'S
WHAT IR IS. EVERYONE
DID TONS OF THESE WHICH WAS
REALLY COOL, ENOUGH
THESE DIFFERENT MEDICAL
SUBSPECIALTIES.
AND WE ALSO DID SOME DATA
PAPERS WHICH ALLUDED
TO IN THE INTRODUCTION,
SHOWING THAT WOMEN IRS
ARE DOING THE SAME LEVEL OF
CASES AND CLINICAL
WORK AND THEIR MALE
COLLEAGUES. BUT IT'S FUNNY.
JUST GOING TO THE MEETINGS
AND BEING AMONG THE
SOCIETY OF INTERVENTIONAL
RADIOLOGISTS,
I HAVE ALWAYS FELT A LITTLE
BIT EXCLUDED. EVEN
GOING TO SEE SOMEONE'S TALK
AND SEE THE DISCLOSURES IF IT
IS A MAN
IN THE FIELD THEY CONSULTED
EVERY COMPANY KNOWN
TO MAN.
WOMEN ARE RELATIVELY NOT
INVOLVED IN THAT. WE
LOOK AT THESE INDUSTRY
PAYMENTS WHICH IS NOT
ONLY A SOURCE
OF ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE SALARY
BUT ALSO THE INDUSTRY
LEADERS. AND THEY CHOOSE
THE KEY OPINION LEADERS IN
OUR FIELD AND EVEN THOUGH
WOMEN ARE 10% OF THE
IRS RECEIVED LESS THAN 1% OF
THE PAYMENTS.
--- I WAS PRETTY HAPPY WITH
LIKE WHERE THINGS
WERE GOING AT SLOAN. I SPENT
OVER FIVE YEARS
THERE
AND HAD MY RESEARCH PROJECT
IN MY CLINICAL
PRACTICE.
IT WAS PRETTY SUBSPECIALIZED.
I THINK IT WAS
PRETTY REWARDING
THING THAT I WAS DOING AND I
TURNED 40; THIS BY
DR. MILLER'S
EXCELLENT ADVICE HAD NOT BEEN
ABLE TO FIND A
SUITABLE HUSBAND AND ALL OF
NEW YORK CITY. WELL,
IN ADDITION TO HAVING A LIFE
PARTNER I ALSO
WANTED TO HAVE KIDS, THAT WAS
ON MY BUCKET LIST.
THESE TWO THINGS.
--- I ALSO HAD MY BUCKET
LIST TO MAKE A THREE
FIGURE SALARY.
AND I LEARNED NOT TO MAKE A
BUCKET LIST WHEN
YOU'RE DRINKING. I WANTED A
BLACK LAB, GOT THAT.
I WANTED THE JEEP WRANGLER,
GOT THAT.
AND I'M NOT GOING TO WAIT
AROUND FOR A HUSBAND.
---
AT THE END OF THE DAY THERE
IS A CLIFF. ONCE
YOU'RE 40 YOU ARE FALLING OFF
THE CLIFF; IT
MAKES IT SO MUCH HARDER. I
THINK IT'S A GREAT
MESSAGE THAT I GOT GROWING
UP.
GO BE INDEPENDENT. GO HAVE
YOUR CAREER. YOU CAN
HAVE IT ALL.
I THINK ELISE TO BE A LITTLE
TEMPERED AND THERE
NEEDS TO BE SOME HONEST
DISCUSSION ABOUT THE
FACT THAT IF YOU DELAY
EVERYTHING IN TERMS OF
FAMILY, YOU MAY MISS OUT ON
YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO
DO IT. THERE ARE CERTAIN
BIOLOGICAL REALITIES THAT YOU
NEED TO THINK
ABOUT.
---
ANYWAY, I AM ABOUT TO HIT
THIS CLIFF. WHAT AM I
GOING TO DO?
LUCKY FOR ME I HAD THIS
AMAZING MENTOR IN -- WHO
IS A LONE PARENT WITH TWO
AMAZING DAUGHTERS OF
HER OWN. YOU KNOW WHAT?
LET'S DO THIS THING.
I AM GOING TO HAVE MY OWN
KID, THE ULTIMATE ACT
OF FEMINISM.
I'M GOING TO DO THIS ON MY
OWN AND I'M GOING TO
HAVE A BABY AND I DID IT.
HERE IS ME, 41.
TWO WEEKS BEFORE MY DUE DATE.
I'M AT THE GYM.
I HAD MY FIRST BABY.
THIS IS LINDSAY.
AND EVERYTHING CHANGED.
I REALIZED BECOMING APPARENT
THINGS WOULD BE
DIFFERENT BUT I THINK UNTIL
YOU ACTUALLY LIVE IT
YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW.
IT TURNED OUT THAT IT WAS LIKE
THE GREATEST LOVE I HAVE EVER
FELT. I DECIDED TO
HAVE A SECOND ONE AND NOW I
HAVE TWO DAUGHTERS.
DURING MY FIRST PREGNANCY I
UNFORTUNATELY
SUDDENLY LOST MY DAD, A BIG
SUPPORTER OF MINE.
I WAS VERY CLOSE TO HIM. HE
DIED UNEXPECTEDLY.
---
AT THE TIME HE PASSED AWAY
AND I WAS TRYING TO
BUY AN APARTMENT IN NEW YORK
-- THANK GOD THE
DEAL FELL THROUGH AND I WAS
HOMELESS, IN AN AIR
B&B.
IN THE SECOND PREGNANCY WAS
WHEN COVID HIT.
IF I EVER GET PREGNANT AGAIN
IT'LL BE AN EARTH
ENDING ASTEROID.
NO MORE KIDS FOR ME.
---
COMING BACK FROM LEAVE AND
READJUSTING TO
THE NEW REALITY
WAS PROBABLY THE HARDEST THING
THAT I HAVE EVER DONE.
AND I THINK IF YOU TAKE THE
JOB OF IR, IT'S
LIKE SUPER STRESSFUL.
IT IS UNPREDICTABLE WHAT
ADD-ONS YOU GET.
YOU GET SOME OF THE SICKEST
PATIENTS AND EVEN
THE MOST MINOR PROCEDURES CAN
GO SOUTH AND ADD
TO THAT A DEADLINE OF TIME,
WHEN YOU TRY TO GET HOME TO
EITHER RELIEVE THE NANNY OR
SEE YOUR KID BEFORE
THEY GO TO BED IT'S A LOT OF
STRESS.
---
I REALIZED IN THIS TRANSITION
THAT I HAD BEEN SO
WORRIED ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE
THOUGHT OF ME THAT I
WAS NOT A FULL PARTNER
ANYMORE IN THE PRACTICE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY I HAD
TO ACCEPT MYSELF
THAT I WAS A DIFFERENT
PERSON. I COULD NOT BE
THE PERSON THAT COULD RALLY
AND BE THE THIRD
SCRUB, LET'S DO THE BILIARY
TOGETHER UNTIL 10
O'CLOCK AT NIGHT. OR GO TO
BEERS AFTERWARDS.
I HAD A WHOLE SET OF OTHER
RESPONSIBILITIES
AND I HAD TO ACCEPT THAT
ABOUT MYSELF.
---
I LIKE THIS QUOTE FROM SLASH.
HE IS TALKING
ABOUT LIFE-CHANGING EVENTS.
THEY USUALLY DO NOT
ANNOUNCE THEMSELVES, IT TAKES
YEARS FOR THE
EMOTIONAL DUST TO SETTLE AS
YOU DO
YOUR BEST TO SEE THROUGH THE
STORM. I AM JUST
TRYING TO SURVIVE. I AM
TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER
ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS
AND WHAT THAT
MEANT FOR ME AND MY FAMILY
THAT I CREATED.
---
SO THINGS ESPECIALLY DURING
THE COVID PANDEMIC,
SORT OF BAD I'D SAY.
I TOLD YOU I WAS A LITTLE
BIT OF A GERM PHOBE,
AND NOT A WHOLE CITY IS
COATED IN COVID. IT'S A
STRUGGLE TO HAVE A YOUNG
FAMILY, YOUNG KIDS IN
AN URBAN SETTING WHERE THE
EXPENSES ARE HIGH,
NOT THE MOST WHOLESOME
ENVIRONMENT; THERE'S A
LOT OF STUFF TO DO AND THAT
IS GREAT BUT IT
REALLY FELT
LIKE THE WALLS WERE CLOSING
IN.
AND I THINK THAT WAS
AGGRAVATED BY THE PANDEMIC
AND DURING THIS DIFFICULT
TIME I GOT A LOT OF
SOLICITED AND UNSOLICITED
ADVICE WHICH I THINK
WAS WELL-MEANING BUT NOT
HELPFUL.
SOMEONE SAID JUST HIRE
ANOTHER NANNY ABOUT THE
TIME PRESSURE.
YEAH, I GUESS SO. FIRST OF
ALL THAT IS SUPER
EXPENSIVE AND THEN I DID NOT
HAVE KIDS TO NEVER
SEE THE NEVER.
---
SOMEBODY TOLD ME TO GET A
SERVANT. THAT WORKED
FOR ME. THEY USED TO COOK MY
MEALS AND WATCH MY
CHILD. WHERE ARE THEY GOING
TO LIVE? WE HAVE TWO
BEDROOMS ALREADY. EVEN
SOMEONE TOLD ME I NEEDED
A BOYFRIEND. THAT IS THE LAST
THING I NEED. IN
THE END I THINK THAT HAVING
THESE EXPERIENCES
REFRAMED HOW I LOOKED AT MY
CAREER. ALL OF A
SUDDEN THERE WAS BETWEEN MY
WORK AND MY
RESPONSIBILITIES AT HOME.
THAT WAS NO SPACE FOR
ME.
EVERYTHING WAS HIGH YIELD AND
INSPIRING AT WORK.
AND I TOOK A GOOD LOOK AT MY
JOB. I WAS GETTING
EXTREMELY BURNED-OUT.
---
I TOLD YOU ABOUT THE
METASTATIC CANCER. THE
DATA WAS EXCITING BUT IT WAS
A BIG LIFT TO WRITE
IT UP. AT THE END OF THE DAY
I AM INTERESTED IN
THE HUMAN BRAIN AND BEHAVIOR;
NOT REALLY
INTERESTED IN IMMUNOLOGY. I
AM DOING IT BECAUSE
THAT IS THE THING THAT MADE
SENSE AT THE TIME
BUT IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT
WAS INSPIRING ME
AND IT BECAME SOMETHING THAT
I LIKE ALMOST COULD
NOT DO.
---
AND SO I STARTED THINKING,
WHAT AM I AFTER?
I AM ON THIS PATH AND GOING
FORWARD BUT IT IS A
SLOG; I AM BURNED OUT. MAYBE
THERE ARE OTHER
PATHS. MAYBE I AM THINKING
ABOUT THIS ALL WRONG
AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT
VERSIONS OF PHYSICIAN
SCIENTISTS AND LEADERS THAT I
NEED TO CONSIDER.
AND THE PATH THAT I WAS ON
MAY NOT BE FOR ME
RIGHT NOW. MAYBE THAT
WOULD'VE WORKED 10 YEARS
AGO.
---
I LIKE THIS QUOTE FROM MOBY:
"IF YOU DO
SOMETHING YOU HATE AND HAVE
SUCCESS, YOU WILL
STILL HATE IT."
MAYBE IT WAS NOT ENOUGH TO
MAKE ME FEEL
FULFILLED IN THE FIELD. SO I
STARTED
INTERVIEWING AT DIFFERENT
PLACES.
I INTERVIEWED AT THIS ONE
PRACTICE IN COLORADO,
A PRIVATE PRACTICE. COLORADO
WOULD HAVE MADE
GOOD SENSE. NEW YORK IS
BECOMING UNMANAGEABLE. I
REALIZE I STILL WANTED TO BE
IN ACADEMICS, SO I
COULD NOT TAKE THE JOB EVEN
IF IT MADE SENSE.
I HAD A GOOD FRIEND AND
MENTOR, DR. -- A
PROMINENT VASCULAR SURGEON IN
NYU, AND HE KNEW
THIS VASCULAR SURGEON HERE
AND HE HAD THIS
VASCULAR SURGERY GROUP AT WVU
IN CHARLESTON AND
FOR POLITICAL REASONS THERE
HAS NOT BEEN
INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY AT
THIS HOSPITAL FOR
ALMOST 10 YEARS IN THIS
HOSPITAL IS A LEVEL I
TRAUMA CENTER AND A CANCER
CENTER, A 1000-BED
HOSPITAL IN THE CONCEPT OF
NOT HAVING IR IS
CRAZY. ANYTHING PORTAL
INTERVENTION,
INTERVENTIONAL ONCOLOGY WAS
BASICALLY MISSING.
AND THAT IS WHAT I AM
BRINGING TO THIS PLACE. I
AM THE DIRECTOR OF
INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY AND
SO FAR THERE IS LIKE ONE OF
ME. I AM A PRETTY
GOOD BOSTON MYSELF. HOPEFULLY
I WILL BE ABOUT TO
SOMEONE ELSE WHEN WE
EVENTUALLY RECRUIT BUT I
AM IN THE DEPARTMENT OF
VASCULAR SURGERY. AND
AGAIN IT'S JUST ME AND A
BUNCH OF DUDES; MAYBE
WILL GET MORE WOMEN IN THE
FUTURE.
---
I FIND THAT I AM VERY ENGAGED
IN THE WORK
BECAUSE INSTEAD OF BEING ONE
OF 25 DOCTORS WHERE
I AM ESSENTIALLY REPLACEABLE,
I AM MORE NEEDED
HERE ON THE CLINICAL FRONT
AND FOR RESEARCH I
THINK I AM GOING TO SHIFT
YEARS AND USE PUBLICLY
AVAILABLE DATABASES TO MORE
CONTINUE THE GENERAL
REPRESENTATION PIECE WHICH I
FIND MORE ENGAGING
THAN THE IMMUNOLOGY THAT I
HAVE BEEN MOST
RECENTLY WORKING ON.
--- AND SO I FEEL LIKE I HAVE
OUR LITTLE PIECE
OF HEAVEN. THIS IS
CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA,
THE STATE CAPITOL.
AND WE HAVE LIKE A DICE HOUSE
AND A BACKYARD AND
YOU CAN LITERALLY DRIVE UP TO
THE DOWNTOWN AND
PARK AND GO TO A RESTAURANT
OR SOMETHING, MUCH
MORE LOGISTICALLY FEASIBLE.
WE REALLY ENJOY IT
HERE.
--- AND SO I DON'T KNOW. WE
WILL SEE WHAT THE
FUTURE HOLDS BUT I THINK THE
THINGS THAT I HAVE
LEARNED IS THAT WHAT WORKS
FOR ONE PERSON MAY
NOT BE INSPIRING FOR THE NEXT
PERSON. WE HAVE
THESE I GUESS SCHEMA WHEN WE
THINK ABOUT WHAT IT
MEANS TO BE A PHYSICIAN
SCIENTIST, BUT THERE ARE
DIFFERENT VERSIONS AND
ITERATIONS OF THAT. THERE
ISN'T JUST ONE PATH TO GET
THERE.
AND WHAT I'VE SEEN IS THAT MY
MENTORS -- I HAVE
BEEN SO BLESSED, AND I HAVE
NOT EVEN TALKED
ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT
HAVE MENTORED ME, JUST
A HANDFUL OF THEM -- THERE
ALWAYS GIVING YOU
ADVICE TO CREATE YOU IN THEIR
OWN IMAGE BECAUSE
THAT IS WHAT THEY KNOW. I
THINK THE THING TO DO
IS TO TAKE THE PIECES THAT
YOU CAN APPLY TO YOUR
OWN PATH AND KIND OF USE IT
AS YOU CAN. AND IN
THE END YOU HAVE TO GO FIND
YOUR MOUNTAIN,
BECAUSE IT WILL BE DIFFERENT
FOR EVERYONE.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR
ATTENTION.
>> DR. WOOD:
AWESOME AMY. THANK YOU AND I
WILL GIVE YOU REAL
CLAP FOR EVERYBODY. AND I
WISH WE CAN GET BACK
TO THE DAYS WHERE WE CAN
STAND UP AND DO THAT
FOR YOU.
REALLY A BUNCH PACKED IN
THERE; THE WORDS OF
WISDOM HIT HOME IN MANY WAYS.
I'M GOING TO TURN
OVER THE QUESTIONS AND THE
REMAINING TIME TO
JOCELYNE AND IF YOU HAVE
QUESTIONS YOU CAN
UNMUTE AND UNVIDEO YOURSELF
ON ZOOM WHEN YOU
HAVE THEM.
I TAKE NOTES DURING THESE
LECTURES AND I WOULD
LIKE TO SUMMARIZE AFTERWARDS
THE QUOTES AND THIS
IS BEEN PARTICULARLY LIVELY
IN TERMS OF WHAT
THOSE SERIES OF QUOTES WILL
DO.
---
THE FEW I TOOK, THE SMALL
EVENTS IMPACTING LIFE
IN A BIG WAY WHICH IS TRUE
FOR EVERYBODY; SMALL
THINGS CHANGE EVERYBODY'S
TRAJECTORY AND YOUR
TRAJECTORIES FANTASTIC AND
INTERESTING,
SOMETHING WE CAN LEARN FROM,
WHICH IS WHAT THIS
SERIES IS ABOUT. LEARNING
FROM OTHER PEOPLE'S
EXPENSES AND NOT HAVING TO
LIVE THROUGH IT
YOURSELF.
---
CHILD LABOR PAPER FACTORY,
KIND OF COOL.
THE READING ROOM IS BORING,
COOL.
CHIEF WRANGLER.
SUITABLE HUSBANDS, UNFOUND.
I NEED A BOYFRIEND?
THE LAST THING I NEED.
THE CRISIS MOMENT IN THE
BATTERY ROOM; WE'VE ALL
BEEN THERE, IN DIFFERENT WAYS,
EVERYBODY HAS BEEN IN THAT
SITUATION WHETHER YOU
ARE A SURGEON OR WHAT.
---
-- -- FEMINISM, STRONGEST
THING I HAVE HEARD.
THE CHEESE STANDS ALONE AND
WHAT YOU DO AT THE
END OF THE DAY AND ULTIMATELY
I WILL REMEMBER
THE LECTURE AS ME AND A BUNCH
OF DUDES, WHICH I
LOVED. I HOPE WE CAN CHANGE
THAT.
YOU WILL BE PART OF THE
CHANGE.
WE DID NOT TALK ABOUT YOUR
EFFORTS TO DO THE
HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE IN
INDUSTRY AND
ELSEWHERE TO PROVIDE METRICS
FOR THE.
ALTERNATE OVER TO JOCELYNE
AND THE GROUP FOR
QUESTIONS.
>> JOCELYNE RIVERA:
THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT WAS
SUPER INTERESTING.
I WILL SAY WITH THE QUOTES,
GET ANGRY BEFORE THE
TALK.
I WOULD GET ANGRY BEFORE ANY
TALK I HAVE.
AMAZING TALK. IF ANYONE HAS
ANY QUESTIONS FEEL
FREE TO UNMUTE.
>> DR. WOOD:
WHILE WE TRANSITION TO THAT,
THE "GET ANGRY
BEFORE YOU TALK,"
REMIND ME MY FRIEND JOHN --
SHARED WHICH IS BODY
LANGUAGE BEFORE JOB
INTERVIEWS IF YOU HAVE AN
OPEN BODY LANGUAGE AND YOU DO
THIS AND BREATHE
AND YELL FOR 30 SECONDS THOSE
PEOPLE GET
ADJUSTED TO SICKLY
SIGNIFICANT MUCH MORE THAN
PEOPLE DO NOT DO THAT THE
NEXT TIME YOU ARE
SITTING ALONE -- YOU HAVE TO
BE ALONE ACTUALLY
FOR THIS -- AND BODY
LANGUAGE. OPEN!
DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER
QUESTIONS?
>> JOCELYNE RIVERA:
YES. HEATHER HAS A QUESTION.
HE SAYS, THANK YOU
FOR THE GREAT TALK. I FOUND
THE -- STUDIES VERY
INTERESTING AND RELEVANT. HOW
WOULD YOU APPROACH
THE PERCEPTION DISCREPANCY OF
THE SOCIETY
TOWARDS WOMEN AND MINORITIES?
HOW WOULD YOU TRY TO SOLVE
THIS PROBLEM?
AFFIRMATIVE-ACTION?
CHANGING SYLLABUS AT SCHOOLS?
MEDIA AND HOLLYWOOD?
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
I DON'T KNOW.
IT IS IMPLICIT. IT'S THE
HARDEST THING TO
ADDRESS OTHER THAN TRYING TO
IDENTIFY AND TALK
ABOUT IT OUT LOUD. THAT IS
THE MILLION-DOLLAR
QUESTION.
>> DR. WOOD:
THAT IS A TOUGH ONE.
AWARENESS GET YOU SOMEWHERE.
THAT IS ALL YOU CAN HOPE FOR,
GETTING PEOPLE
EARLY IN THEIR CAREERS TO
THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES.
WE HAD ANOTHER COOL QUESTION.
CAN YOU SPEAK ABOUT WHAT YOU
FOUND HELPFUL TO
GET OUT OF THE NEGATIVE SELF
TALK POSTPARTUM?
I THINK A LOT OF WOMEN FIND
THEMSELVES HERE.
THAT IS A GOOD ONE.
BRING UP THESE CHALLENGING
TOPICS, THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT ONE.
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
IT'S SO HARD. PARENTING, I
CALL MINE "HARM
REDUCTION STRATEGY," KEEP
THEM A SAFEST
POSSIBLE. IT'S SO HARD TO NOT
HAVE MOMENTS OF
FEELING COMPLETELY DEFICIENT
IN BOTH AREAS.
--- I THINK THE BEST THING
FOR ME WAS THE OTHER
WOMEN WHO WERE GOING TO THE
SAME THING. LIKE I
DON'T KNOW, I HAVE A LOT OF
FEMALE PHYSICIAN
FRIENDS WITH KIDS ABOUT THE
SAME AGE, LIKE MY
FRIEND HOSTY (PHONETIC) OR
CAROLYN. AND WE TEXT
EACH OTHER TALK TO GET
THROUGH IT.
BUT, THAT'S THE
MILLION-DOLLAR QUESTION.
SELF-ACCEPTANCE.
WE ALL STRUGGLE WITH THAT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE A
GOOD ANSWER FOR YOU;
I STILL STRUGGLE WITH IT.
ONE OF THE BABIES IS ONE; THE
OTHER IS THREE AND
HALF. A REALLY ROUGH TIME IN
THE AMY DEIPOLYI
HOUSEHOLD NOW.
>> DR. WOOD:
ANY SECRETS TO SHARE?
HOMELESS AND PREGNANT IN
NEW YORK I LEFT THAT QUOTE
OUT. WE'VE ALL BEEN
THERE.
WHERE DO YOU FIND THE
STRENGTH TO GATHER, TO
KNOW THAT YOU WILL BE OKAY
AND IT IS THE RIGHT
MOVE FOR YOU AND IT WILL
CHANGE YOUR TRAJECTORY.
HOW DO YOU KNOW?
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
SO MY -- MY AUNT TOLD ME
NOTHING IS PERMANENT.
EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE A
BIG MOVE, IF IT IS
WRONG AND IT DOES NOT WORK
OUT, YOU CAN CHANGE
IT.
IN TERMS OF THE BIG THINGS, I
THINK BREAKING IT
DOWN INTO LITTLE PIECES AND
WELL, I HAVE TO DO
THIS WHOLE HUGE THING, YOU
THINK ABOUT WHAT CAN
I DO RIGHT NOW AT THIS
MOMENT? TAKE IT
STEP-BY-STEP.
KIND OF LIKE WRITER'S BLOCK.
EVEN IF IT IS TOTAL CRAP, PUT
IT ON PAPER.
MY PHILOSOPHY IS POWER
THROUGH.
LIKE ROCK BOTTOM I WAS LUCKY
ENOUGH TO HAVE
REALLY CARING FRIENDS.
I LITERALLY LIVED -- AT ONE
POINT I LIVED IN
AUNT COVI'S APARTMENT AND
WITH -- COLLEAGUES OF
MINE, I LITERALLY LIVED IN
THEIR APARTMENTS AND
THEY OPEN THEIR DOORS. BUT
YOU DO NOT ALWAYS
HAVE TO. IF I HAD A BIG
PROBLEM HERE WE WOULD BE
IN TROUBLE BECAUSE WE DO NOT
HAVE A BIG NETWORK
HERE. THAT IS WHAT KEEPS ME
UP AT NIGHT. I DON'T
HAVE GOOD PLANS; WE DO NOT
HAVE A BIG NET, IT'S
CHALLENGING AND YOU TRY TO
TAKE IT DAY BY DAY.
>> DR. WOOD:
DAVE BURKART WRITES, THANK
YOU FOR YOUR COURAGE
AND TENACITY. WHAT A
PHENOMENAL ROLE MODEL.
THANK YOU FOR THAT.
OTHER QUESTIONS?
>> HELLO.
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
GREAT, THANKS SO MUCH FOR
YOUR TALK; THAT WAS
GREAT, I'M AN MBPH STUDENT AS
WELL, FOURTH YEAR.
I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS BUT
I WILL ASK JUST ONE
FOR THE SAKE OF TIME. YOU
MENTIONED THAT BEFORE
YOU WERE REALLY INTERESTED IN
THE BRAIN AND
BEHAVIOR AND EVERYTHING AND
THEN YOU DECIDED YOU
COULD NOT DO NEUROSURGERY
BECAUSE OF ALL THE
HOURS AND EVERY THING ELSE.
AND THEN YOU ENDED
UP DOING IR WHICH IS ALSO
PRETTY SURGICAL, AN
AWFUL LONG HOURS AND WORKING
EVERY DAY.
WHAT IS YOUR KIND OF THOUGHTS
ON HOW THAT ENDED
UP?
AND DOING THIS SIMILAR TYPE
OF LIFESTYLE AS IF
YOU HAD BECOME A NEUROSURGEON.
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
GOOD POINT. MAYBE I WOULD'VE
BEEN HAPPIER AS A
PSYCHIATRIST,
I DON'T KNOW BUT I DO LIKE
USING MY HANDS AND
DOING INTERVENTION.
EVERY CAREER WILL HAVE ITS
CHALLENGES.
AT THE TIME, THE MODELS OF
NEUROSURGERY -- THE
CULTURE MAY HAVE CHANGED BUT
THERE'S ALSO A LOT
OF CULTURAL NOT GETTING ALONG
AMONG PHYSICIANS
OF THAT WAS ALSO PART OF ME.
YOU SPEND EIGHT
YEARS IN TRAINING AND BE IN A
PLACE WHERE PEOPLE
SEEM TO -- I DON'T KNOW --
MAYBE IT WAS A BIASED
LOOK AT IT.
---
PLACES WILL BE DIFFERENT.
THERE WILL BE DIFFERENT
CULTURES AND DIFFERENT
PLACES AND THERE ARE
DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF IR.
IF I WANTED TO DO THE EASY
THING I COULD GO TO A
VEIN CENTER; THERE ARE
PERMUTATIONS OF EVERY
CAREER, AND DIFFERENT
ITERATIONS OF THAT, AT
DIFFERENT PARTS OF YOUR LIFE.
LIKE I SAID
NOTHING IS PERMANENT. SO YOU
MAY BE ABLE TO GO
PART-TIME. LIKE FOR ME I
REALLY CAN'T GO
PART-TIME BECAUSE IT'S JUST
ME; BUT IF YOU HAVE
A PARTNER YOU MAY HAVE MORE
FLEXIBILITY IN THAT
AND THERE ARE CERTAIN
INSTITUTIONS THAT CAN
SUPPORT THAT LIKE MAYO CLINIC
HAS A FLEX AWAY
WHEN YOU CAN COME DOWN TO .6
FTE AND GO BACK UP
WHEN YOU ARE READY. I FIND
THE BIGGER
INSTITUTIONS CAN BE
MUCH MORE HELPFUL IN
SUPPORTING THE FACULTY TO
BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE PEOPLE
THAT HAVE FAMILY
NEEDS. NOT JUST FOR WOMEN BUT
EVERYBODY GOES
THROUGH TIMES IN THEIR LIVES
WHEN THEY NEED MORE
TIME AWAY FROM WORK; THEY
NEED TO WORK LESS AND
THEN WORK MORE. SO YOU HAVE
TO, WHEN YOU START
LOOKING AT RESIDENCY
PROGRAMS, LOOKING AT JOBS,
YOU NEED TO DIG DOWN DEEP TO
FIGURE OUT WHAT
KIND OF PLACE THAT IS AND
WHETHER THAT IS GOING
TO ACCOMMODATE YOU.
--- FOR EXAMPLE THE PRIVATE
PRACTICE -- I
WASN'T INTERESTED IN HAVING
ANY MORE KIDS BUT
THEY LITERALLY HAVE NO FAMILY
LEAVE AT ALL, DOES
NOT EXIST. IF YOU ARE A
PERSON THAT IS GOING TO
HAVE A FAMILY YOU MAY WANT TO
NOT GO THERE TO
THAT JOB.
>> THANKS FOR THAT.
>> JOCELYNE RIVERA:
WE HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM
LINDA HOE
(PHONETIC).
SHE SAID, THANK YOU FOR
SHARING YOUR LIFE'S
LESSONS.
I WAS SO INSPIRED.
HOW DO YOU HANDLE
MICRO-AGGRESSION AND EXPLICIT
SEXISM?
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
I PERSONALLY DECIDED TO WRITE
ABOUT IT AND TALK
ABOUT IT BUT IT'S TRICKY,
LIKE ON A DAY-TO-DAY.
YOU KNOW LIKE I TRUMP TALKED
LOCKER ROOM TALK?
THAT HAPPENS A LOT IN THE
FIELD. I LIKE TO READ
JOKES LIKE THE BEST OF THEM.
I KINDA TRY TO ROLL WITH IT.
BUT THEN, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW
IF I HAVE A GOOD
ANSWER FOR YOU HERE EITHER,
BUT IF I FOUND
SOMEONE -- OKAY THERE WAS
SOMEONE EARLY ON IN MY
SLOAN-KETTERING DAYS, I WROTE
ABOUT THIS IN THIS
EDITORIAL WHO BROUGHT ME IN
THEIR OFFICE AND I
HAVE BEEN IN PRACTICE FOR TWO
YEARS AND THEY
TOLD ME I SHOULD NOT BE
TAKING ON HIGH-LEVEL
CASES
AND I WOULD NOT BE READY TO
HAVE
TRAINEES WORKING FOR ME FOR
ANOTHER TWO YEARS.
WELL, ED AND --
HAVE BEEN IN PRACTICE FOR THE
SAME AMOUNT OF
TIME AND I HAVE DONE MORE
THAN THEM BECAUSE IT
WAS BUSIER AT NYU, WHY AM I
DIFFERENT?
THAT IS JUST FOR YOU. AND I
SAID THAT WAS NOT
TRUE AND I DID NOT LISTEN TO
HIM
WHICH DID NOT RESULT IN THE
BEST PROFESSIONAL
RELATIONSHIP BUT AT THE END
OF THE DAY -- THE
BEST THING TO DO IS TO SMILE
AND THANK THEM.
BUT IT IS UNCOMFORTABLE.
I DON'T KNOW.
>> DR. WOOD:
THANKS FOR SHARING.
I THINK ONE OF THE ANSWERS IS
PROBABLY NOT TO
STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE GROUND
AND NOT JUST
ACCEPT WHAT YOU'RE BEING TOLD.
I APPRECIATE YOUR SHARING.
ANY LAST QUESTIONS BEFORE WE
CLOSE?
>> HAVE A QUICK ONE.
THAT WAS BEAUTIFULLY
INSPIRING.
ANYONE COULD WALK AWAY AND
GET SOMETHING FROM
THE TALK; IT KEPT ME
CAPTIVATED FOR EVERY
MOMENT. I WAS INTRIGUED BY
THE TERM 360-DEGREE
MENTOR.
YOU MAY BE ABLE TO GET AWAY
WITH AT EVERY
MOMENT IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD WITH
YOUR BABIES AND
TODDLERS.
BUT HOW DO YOU NAVIGATE THAT
IN YOUR WORK
ENVIRONMENT?
I KNOW YOU ARE IN A SMALLER
WORK ENVIRONMENT
NOW, BUT PERHAPS YOU HAD
MENTORS WHO WERE LIKE
THAT BECAUSE YOU GOT SO CLOSE
TO THEM, YOU WERE
ABLE TO MANAGE THAT, BUT WHAT
IS YOUR PHILOSOPHY
ON THAT?
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
I THINK IT IS REALLY TRICKY.
LIKE, WE DO LIVE IN A CLIMATE
NOW FOR WE ARE SO
CONCERNED ABOUT -- I THINK
FOR BETTER, NOT FOR
WORSE, WHAT IS POLITICALLY
CORRECT, WHAT IS
ETHICAL AND COMFORTABLE AND
NOT WEIRD.
I THINK IT CAN BE HARD.
IT'S ALSO HARD AS A WOMAN IN
THE FIELD WHERE SO
MANY OF THE MENTORS ARE MEN.
IT CAN BE SORT OF
INAPPROPRIATE IF YOU ARE
DOING THINGS OUTSIDE OF
WORK. IT'S COMPLICATED.
I THINK IT COMES ABOUT VERY
NATURALLY.
BUT I WONDER, MAYBE WHEN YOU
ARE MENTORING
SOMEONE MAYBE NOT RIGHT AWAY
BUT AFTER A TIME
YOU ASK THEM, WHAT ARE YOUR
GOALS IN YOUR LIFE?
AND THEN YOU CAN THEN REFLECT
ON THAT.
I BROUGHT A LOT OF STUFF
ABOUT OH YOU ARE NOT
GOING TO BE -- ANYMORE, AND
THEY WON'T BE
POTENTIAL HUSBANDS.
I BROUGHT IT UP MORE IS A
CHALLENGE. HOW CAN WE
BRING THAT BACK? I DON'T
THINK YOU CAN BE
EFFECTIVE IGNORING THE
PERSONAL SIDE OF PEOPLE'S
LIVES.
--- I THINK IT'S PROBABLY
THE SELECT FEW
MENTOR/MENTEE RELATIONSHIPS
THAT WILL BE ON THAT
LEVEL. MOST OF THE PEOPLE
WILL BE MORE TEMPORARY
PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND OUT
OVER THE COURSE OF
THE YEAR. AND YOU PROBABLY
WON'T HAVE THAT
ABILITY TO BE THAT 360-DEGREE
MENTOR. ALL THE
ONES THAT GAVE YOU PERSONAL
ADVICE I HAD KNOWN
FOR 3-5 YEARS.
>> BY THE WAY I ONLY HAVE
DAUGHTERS. MY YOUNGEST
DAUGHTER WHO IS STILL IN
COLLEGE OR FIRST
(CORRECTION) REFERS TO ME AS
"DUDE."
>> DR. WOOD:
I WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL OF
PEOPLE'S TIME.
THIS IS BEEN AN AWESOME TALK.
I WOULD LIKE TO END ON A
QUOTE FROM LEWIS
CARROLL A PROPO TO THE TOPIC:
WOULD YOU TELL ME
PLEASE WHICH WAY TO GO HERE?
THAT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU
WANT TO GO SEE THE
CAT. I DON'T MUCH CARE WHERE
SAID ALICE.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH WAY
TO GOALSETTING AS
LONG AS I GET SOMEWHERE ADDED
ADDED AS A
CLINICIAN.
FOR SURE YOU WOULD DO THAT
SAID THE CAT IF YOU
WALK LONG ENOUGH. AND YOU
HAVE WALKED LONG
ENOUGH.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND
EVER BODY FOR
PARTICIPATING AND JOINING
TODAY.
THANK YOU TO JOCELYNE FOR
JUMPING IN AND
CHAIRWOMANING THIS NEW SERIES
AND LOOK FORWARD
FOR THE COOL LECTURES. CAN'T
WAIT TO HEAR THEM
HONESTLY. THANK YOU EVERYBODY
FOR BEING A PART
OF IT.
AND HAVE A GREAT DAY.
JOCELYNE, ANY CLOSING
COMMENTS?
>> JOCELYNE RIVERA:
THANK YOU EVERYONE, I ENJOYED
THIS.
I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
THANK YOU.
>> DR. DEIPOLYI:
THANKS GUYS.
>> DR. WOOD:
THANK YOU.