>>WELCOME TO THE NEXT EPISODE OF WOMEN LEADERS IN RESEARCH, EMPOWERMENT OF UNDER REPRESENTED RESEARCHERS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE NIH RESEARCH CENTERS FOR ONCOLOGY AND FRIENDS, VARIOUS SOCIETIES AND ENTITIES. WE'RE GLAD YOU ARE HERE. HOPE YOU ENJOYED THE PICTURE OF SCIENTISTS SESSION LAST MONTH. IT IS STILL AVAILABLE ON VIDEOCAST IN THE EVENT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT. IT IS A SHORT VERSION OF THAT AWARD-WINNING MOVIE. TODAY WE'RE REALLY HAPPY TO HAVE Dr. COLLEEN HADIGAN, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER HERE IN THE CLINICAL CENTER OF NIH. TALKING ABOUT LISTENING AND NOT LISTENING AND I WILL TURN THIS OVER TO OUR SUPERSTAR AMY NAVARA. >>SO OUR UPCOMING SPEAKERS WILL START ON APRIL 4TH TERESA CARIDL AND YAEL BENSOUSSAM. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE? >> SO THIS IS OUR PRODUCTION TREE SLIDE WHERE WE SPEND A FEW QUOTATIONS ON INSPIRATIONAL WOMEN AND WE'LL GO AHEAD AND START. NEXT SLIDE. AND AMY IS HERE TODAY AS WELL FROM -- WHO IS CHIEF OF IR WEST VIRGINIA AND SHE WILL START US OFF. THANKS, AMY. >>THANK YOU SO MUCH. SO MARIE CURIE, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS HER, THE FIRST WOMAN SCIENTIST TO WIN A NOBEL PRIZE AND ALSO THE FIRST TO WIN TWO NOBEL PRIZES. QUITE THE FIGURE. SHE WAS RAISED IN SCHOOL IN POLAND AND THERE WAS NO CAREER PATH THERE FOR HER SO SHE WENT TO FRANCE AND EVENTUALLY DIED OF APLASTIC ANEMIA PROBABLY DUE TO HER EXPOSURE IN RESEARCH BUT SHE SAID NOTHING IN LIFE IS TO BE FEARED, IT IS ONLY TO BE UNDERSTOOD. NOW IS THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND MORE SO THAT WE MAY FEAR LESS. NEXT SLIDE? >>THE NEXT WOMAN WAS ROUTE BADER GINSBURG. HER STATEMENT IS WOMEN BELONG IN ALL PLACES ARE DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE. SHE WAS TOP OF HER CLASS AT RGB BUT NO JOB. SHE WAS WORKING AS PROFESSOR AT RUTGERS UNIVERSITY OF LAW AND WORKING FOR WOMEN FIRED BECAUSE THEY WERE PREGNANT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE? >>ELEANOR ROOSEVELT, FIRST LADY OF THE WORLD, FIRST LADY FOR 15 YEARS HERE IN THE U.S. AS WELL AND MANY OF THE DECISIONS DURING THAT TIME OF GREAT IMPACT WERE MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IN LARGE PART ASSISTED OR EVEN MADE BY ELEANOR. WOMEN ARE LIKE TEA BAGS, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW STRONG THEY ARE TILL YOU PUT THEM IN HOT WATER. NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU INFERIOR WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT. DO ONE THING EVERY DAY THAT SCARES YOU. THAT IS THE ONE I LOVE. AND SHE WAS THE DRIVING FORCE IN CREATING THE 1948 CHARTER OF LIBERTIES KNOWN AS THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE? >>THE NEXT ONE, EQUALITY CRUSADER BY ANNETTE COLVIN. SHE WAS ESCORTED OFF A BUS BY A POLICEMAN BECOMING THE FIRST PERSON TO BE ARRESTED FOR CHALLENGING MONTGOMERY'S BUS SEGREGATION HOUSE. [ MULTIPLE VOICES ] >>IF EVERYBODY COULD MUTE, PLEASE IF YOU ARE NOT ALREADY MUTED? THANK YOU. >>ALL RIGHT, NEXT UP IS VIRGINIA WOLF -- WOOLF, ANOTHER FEMALE AUTHOR FOR THE STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS TECHNIQUE AND SHE SAID FOR MOST OF HISTORY, ANONYMOUS WAS A WOMAN. >>NEXT SLIDE. SO I AM GOING TO PROBABLY BUTCHER THE PRONUNCIATION BUT THIS SLIDE IS A QUOTE FROM ISABELLE NEWTON AND I THINK AMY GAVE THE MOST PROFOUND LECTURE ON THIS SERIES THAT I HAVE EVER HEARD SO THANK YOU TO BOTH OF YOU. AND SHE SAID THE BEAUTY OF ANTI RACISM IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO PRETEND TO BE FREE OF RACISM TO BE ANTIRACIST. IT IS THE COMMITMENT TO FIGHT RACISM WHEREVER YOU FIND IT INCLUDING YOURSELF AND IT IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD. NEXT SLIDE. >>OKAY, SO TO CLOSE OUT THIS SECTION WITH A FEW FACTS, AMAZING TO THINK WE HAVE SO MANY WOMEN FOR THE LECTURE SERIES AND YET SCHOOLS ONLY ALLOWED WOMEN IN OUR NEAR HISTORY. I WAS BORN IN 1978 AND LOOK, MY ALMA MATER AND YALE AT 1977 SO JUST A FEW YEARS AGO. AND NOW BRAD MADE THIS SLIDE BUT IT IS TRUE, WOMEN ARE BETTER. WE HAVE ACHIEVED THE HIGHEST IQ SCORES, WE EARN THE MAJORITY OF COLLEGE DEGREES, WE ARE DEFINITELY MORE MATURE EARLIER AND FOR LONGER THAN MEN -- >> AND SOMETIMES INTO ADULTHOOD, I MIGHT ADD, AMY? [LAUGHTER] >>YES. WE LIVE LONGER AND WE SEE MORE COLOR AND YOU DIDN'T WRITE HERE BUT THERE IS ACTUALLY A STUDY SHOWING WOMEN PHYSICIANS ACHIEVE BETTER OUTCOMES THAN MALES IN A VERY LARGE COHORT. NEXT SLIDE. BUT DESPITE ALL THAT, WE ARE UNDERREPRESENTED AND YOU CAN KIND OF READ SOME OF THESE FACT. S . I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE HERE IS WE ARE THE LAST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT DOESN'T MANDATE PAID MATERNITY OR PATERNITY LEAVE IN THE U.S. >>AND TO ME THAT IS SHOCKING AND IT SHOULDN'T BE ACCEPTABLE WHEN YOU HEAR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T RING RIGHT. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT RAISING CHILDREN MEANS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT SHOULDN'T RING RIGHT WITH YOU. SO TODAY IRONINGLY THIS MORNING A PIECE CAME OUT THAT THIS DAY IN THIS YEAR IS EQUAL PAYDAY. IDENTIFYING THE GENDER PAY GAP AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS WOMEN HAVE TO WORK ALL THE WAY TO MARCH 14TH TO MAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF WORK THAT MEN MADE JANUARY 1ST. AND FOR BLACK WOMEN IT IS 65 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, FOR LATINA WOMEN, 6 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR. NEXT SLIDE. >>SO NOW IT IS MY PLEASURE TO PRESENT Dr. COLLEEN HADIG AN ON TODAY'S LISTENING SESSION AND SHE WILL SHARE HER EXPERIENCE AND INSIGHTS ON THE POWERFUL ROLE OF LISTENING AND NOT LISTENING AS SHE NAVIGATED HER CAREER AS PRODUCTIVE CLINICAL INVESTIGATOR AND HER NEWEST ROLE AS CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER OF THE NIH CLINICAL CENTER. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. Dr. HADIGAN RECEIVED HER MEDICAL DEGREE FROM JOHNS HOPKINS SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND SUBSEQUENTLY COMPLETED HER RESIDENCY IN PEDIATRICS AT BOSTON'S CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL FOLLOWED BY A FELLOWSHIP IN PEDIATRIC GASTRO END ROLLING AND HEPATOLOGY IN THE HARVARD COMBINED PROGRAM AT BOSTON'S CHILDREN HOSPITAL AND MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL HOSPITAL. SHE RECENTLY RECEIVED HER MPL AT THE HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH. HER ACADEMIC RESEARCH CENTERED ON LONG-TERM AND METABOLIC COMPLICATIONS OF HIV AND THERAPIES'BOTH CHILDREN AND ADULTS. IN 2006 SHE CAME TO THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH AS A MEMBER OF THE LABORATORY OF IMMUNOREGULATION OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE, NIAID. IN ADDITION HER ACTIVE RESEARCH AND MENTORING, Dr. HADIGAN SERVED AS DEPUTY MANAGER OF NIAID OUTPATIENT HIV AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES RESEARCH CLINIC OVER TEN YEARS IN OCTOBER 2021 SHE BECAME CHIEF MEDICAL VER AND CLINICAL DIRECTOR FOR NIH CLINICAL CENTER SHE IS BOARD CERTIFIED IN PEDIATRICS AND GI AND HELP TO GO AND REMAINS CLINICALLY ACTIVE IN PEDIATRIC GI AND HELP TO GO CONSULTANT FOR NIH CLINICAL CENTER >>THANK YOU. I WANT TO THANK BRAD AND THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ORGANIZED THIS LECTURE SERIES IT PROVIDES AN IMPORTANT PLATFORM FOR WHAT I THINK ARE REALLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE ACROSS THE CLINICAL CENTER AND COMMUNITY AT LARGE. SO I CHOSE THIS TITLE AND TOPIC PARTICULARLY BECAUSE IN OUR TRAINING AS PHYSICIANS, WE ACTUALLY ARE REWARDED TO NOT -- WE'RE REWARDED TO ALWAYS HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER, TO BE SPEAKING THE ANSWER. AND AS A RESULT, WE OFTEN DON'T LISTEN, WE ONLY LISTEN LONG ENOUGH TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SAY NEXT, TO SHOW HOW SMART WE ARE AND SHOW HOW MUCH WE KNOW OR TO ASK THAT POINTED QUESTION TO SHOW OFF HOW MUCH WE KNOW. AND AS YOU PROGRESS IN YOUR CAREER AND AS I HAVE PRO PROGRESSED, I HAVE LEARNED IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ACTIVELY LISTEN AND TAKE THE TIME TO PROCESS WHAT YOU ARE HEARING AS OPPOSED TO PREPARING WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY NEXT SO THAT WAS THE REASON I CHOSE THIS TOPIC. AND LET ME ADVANCE. SO HERE ARE MY DISCLOSURES AS NOSED NIH-ERS HAVE NO DISCLOSURES AND I WILL NOT BE DISCUSSING ANY OFF-PRODUCT LABEL USE. HOWEVER, I MUST SAY I KISSED THE BLARNEY STONE IN 1985. THIS IS A PICTURE OF ME DOING SO WHILE SPENDING A YEAR ABROAD AT OXFORD AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW, THE MYTH IS IF YOU KISS THE BLARNEY STONE ON ANY DAY YOU RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE GAB AND IT MEANS THAT I AM A TALKER AND YET, I AM IRONICALLY GIVING A TALK ABOUT LISTENING. SO THAT IS MY DISCLOSURE AND CERTAINLY IT IS ALSO MY CHALLENGE. I AM GOING TO BE TELLING MY STORIES AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW ME, SOME OF THESE MAY BE STORIES YOU HAVE HEARD BEFORE. HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE INTERESTING OR IMPACTFUL IN SOME WAY AND I ALSO AM CHALLENGING MYSELF WITH THIS QUOTE FROM GANDHI WHICH IS YOU SHOULD ONLY SPEAK IF YOU ARE IMPROVING UPON THE SILENCE. SO I THINK THAT IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE AND GO ABOUT IT WITH TREPIDATION BUT HOPE YOU WILL GO ON THIS CONVERSATION WITH ME AND GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT. SO THE OVERVIEW OF THE TOPIC I WANT TO COVER AND DISCUSS TODAY, FIRST, ARE LISTENING TO YOUR PARENTS, KIND OF WHERE WE SHOULD ALL BEGIN WITH LISTENING. THEN SHARE SOME STORIES AND CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE WISDOM OF -- LISTENING TO THE WISDOM OF OTHERS. THEN, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T BE A FINE TALK WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE DATA. I AM GOING TO TRY TO BRING UP SOME TIMES WHEN WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHEN I DIDN'T LISTEN OR SHOULDN'T HAVE LISTENED AND THEN LISTENING TO LEAD. SO I DON'T -- ALTHOUGH MANY OF YOU MAY KNOW ME, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT NONE OF YOU HAVE HAD THE FORTUNE OF MEETING MY PARENTS SO I WANTED TO INTRODUCE YOU TO JOHN AND CAROL HADIGAN. MY FATHER HAD PASSED AWAY IN 2008 AFTER THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN BUT I WAS BLESSED WITH AN INCREDIBLE SET OF ROLE MODELS WHO WERE DEDICATED, GENEROUS, COMMITTED AND SET STANDARDS FOR THEIR THREE CHILDREN THAT WERE VERY HIGH. THEY EXPECTED MUCH FROM US BUT ALSO GAVE US EVEN MORE. SO I AM GOING TO TELL TWO STORIES, SORT OF FUNNY BUT STILL WORTH LISTENING TO AND IMPORTANT IN UNDERSTANDING BOTH WHO I AM AND KIND OF WHAT DRIVES ME AND ANCHORS ME. SO BEFORE I WAS TO LEAVE TO SPEND MY JUNIOR YEAR AT OXFORD IN MY HOMETOWN, IN NEW YORK, THERE WAS A DEBATE WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL AT OXFORD WAS DEBATING AN AMERICAN SCHOLAR FROM HARVARD AND THE TOPIC WAS AMERICAN HUMOR. SO I DRAGGED MY MOTHER TO THIS AND THOUGHT THIS MIGHT HELP ME WHEN I GO TO OXFORD IN A FEW MONTHS. AND DURING THE COURSE OF THIS DEBATE, ONE OF THE DEBATERS, AND I WON'T SAY IF IT WAS EITHER THE AMERICAN OR BRITISH DEBATER, BUT ONE OF THEM WHEN THEY WEREN'T SPEAKING WAS SO STEEPLY WRAPPED IN THOUGHT THAT HE ACTUALLY BEGAN PICKING HIS NOSE ON STAGE. AND MY MOTHER WAS SO DISTRACTED AND DEVASTATED BY THIS COMPLETE LAPSE OF BEHAVIOR AND SHE, AFTER WE WERE MEETING AT THE END OF THE EVENT, SHE JUST REACHED OVER TO ME AND SAID COLLEEN, PROMISE ME NO MATTER HOW SMART YOU GET AND WHAT STAGE YOU GET ON, DON'T EVER GET SO SMART THAT YOU ABSOLUTELY FORGET COMMON SENSE AND APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR AND START PICKING YOUR NOSE IN PUBLIC. AND I WAS LIKE MOM, I PROMISE, I WILL DO MY BEST. [LAUGHTER] SO HOPEFULLY I HAVE KEPT THAT PROMISE AND KEPT MY BEHAVIOR APPROPRIATE EVEN WHEN IN PUBLIC AND VICE-PRESIDENT GOT TEN SO SMART THAT I HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT. THE NEXT STORY IS ONE THAT INVOLVES MY DAD. SO THIS WAS AGAIN AT A TIME FOR ANOTHER TRANSITION. SO I SPENT SEVERAL YEARS BETWEEN COLLEGE AND GRADUATE SCHOOL PREPPING TO GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL BECAUSE I HAD NOT FIGURED OUT I WANTED TO BE A DOCTOR WHEN I AGREE UP SO I WAS TAKING ALL THE POST-BAC PRE-MEDIUM COURSES AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY AT THE TIME BUT I WAS ALSO TRAINING TO BE AN AEROBICS INSTRUCTOR BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FUN TO TEACH ON THE SIDE AT MEDICAL SCHOOL. MY PARENTS CAME DOWN ON THE DAY I WAS TAKING MY INSTRUCTORS' DESIGN AND I WILL PREFACE THIS AS SAYING SARCASM WAS THE LANGUAGE BETWEEN ME AND MY FAMILY, AT LEAST BETWEEN ME AND MY FATHER. SO I TOOK THE EXAMINATION AND HE SAID TO ME WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT, I THOUGHT YOU WERE GETTING READY TO GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. AND I JUST TOLD HIM, I WAS LIKE WELL, YOU KNOW, DEAD PAN, DAD, THAT'S MY BACKUP PLAN. YOU KNOW IF I DON'T GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL, I AM GOING TO BECOME AN AEROBICS INSTRUCTOR AND HE LOOKED AT ME SERIOUSLY, DEAD PAN, CAN YOU MAKE A LIVING DOING THAT? BECAUSE IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, I AM FINE WITH THAT AND I RECOGNIZE HOW INCREDIBLE THAT WAS, THAT I WAS PROBABLY THE ONLY MEDICAL STUDENT ENTERING HOPKINS THAT YEAR WHOSE FATHER TRULY BELIEVED THAT WHATEVER I CHOSE TO DO, THAT WOULD MAKE ME HAPPY AS LONG AS I COULD MAKE A GOOD LIVING, WAS GOING TO BE PERFECTLY FINE. SO THAT COMPLETE ACCEPTANCE AND UNDERSTANDING THAT YOUR CHILDREN OR YOUR COWORKERS OR COLLEAGUES OR FRIENDS' VISIONS WHAT HAVE THEY WANT TO DO IS SO IMPORTANT IN VALUE AND THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE OVERRIDDEN BY WHAT YOU THINK THEY SHOULD DO. SO THOSE ARE MY TWO LISTEN TO YOUR PARENTS LESSONS. >> AND COLLEEN, SORRY TO INTERRUPT, I AM BREAKING THE RULE OF LISTENING THAT YOU MADE AT THE BEGINNING BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING UP AND HONORING YOUR PARENTS AT THE START OF YOUR TALK AS ROLE MODELS AND INCIDENT INSPIRATION. LOOKING BACK, THE CROSS GENERATIONAL CONNECTIONS ARE SO IMPORTANT TO EVERYTHING ABOUT WHO EACH OF US ARE AND I JUST WOULD SHOUT OUT TO YOU AND APPRECIATE YOU MENTIONING THEM AND I KNOW THAT RINGS TRUE FOR EVERYBODY LISTENING, TO PAUSE AND THINK HOW MUCH YOUR PARENTS MEAN TO YOU OR PARENTAL FIGURE BECAUSE THERE IS PARENTING WITH A LOT OF FOLKS ACROSS GENERATION. >>ABSOLUTELY. NOW I WILL TRANSITION TO THE MUCH BROADER TOPIC OF LISTENING TO THE GENERAL WISDOM OF OTHERS, BEYOND YOUR PARENTS, ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE KIND OF SENDING YOU IMPORTANT THINGS TO INCORPORATE INTO WHO YOU ARE AND HOW YOU TREAT OTHERS AND SO I JUST USE THIS TRANSITION SLIDE, RIGHT, SO THAT WHEN WE TALK, WE ARE ONLY REPEATING WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW SO IT IS SUPER OBVIOUS, RIGHT, BUT WHEN YOU LISTEN, YOU CAN ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING NEW SO RECOGNIZING IT HAS TO GO BOTH WAYS AND EVEN THOUGH IT IS NICE TO HEAR US TALK YOU CAN LEARN SOMETHING BETTER BY LISTENING TO OTHERS AND I HAVE HAD VERY FORTUNATE OPPORTUNITIES THROUGH HAD A VOICE ADVISORS AND MENTORS THAT INVOLVED LISTENING TO. ONE VERY TRANSITION POINT AT THE START OF MY FELLOWSHIP SO YOU DO TWO CLINICAL AND THEN TWO YEARS OF RESEARCH. ALI WALKER IS A GASTRO E NTEROGIST, TRAINED AS A PEDIATRICIAN IN IMMUNOLOGY AND THEN CAME BACK AND CREATED THE PROGRAM OF PEDIATRIC GI AT HARVARD IN THE 70s AND LAUNCH WELL OVER A HUNDRED CAREERS AND MORE THAN 50 PERCENT OF HIS TRAINEES ARE STILL ACTIVE IN CLINICAL RESEARCH ACADEMIC MODEL CENTERS. BUT WHEN I WAS STARTING MY RESEARCH PIECE, I YOU KNOW SAT DOWN WITH HIM AND THOUGHT HE IS REALLY SMART AND KNOWS THE WHOLE HARVARD SYSTEM, I SHOULD LISTENTO HIS ADVICE AND HE IS GOING TO TELL ME TO GO WORK FOR SOMEBODY AND I NEED TO LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS. AT THAT TIME, MY RESEARCH HAD BEEN IN EATING DISORDERS AND PSYCHIATRY SO I HAD A DECENT BACKGROUND AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE FIELD. SO HE LOOKED AT MY CV AND MADE A RECOMMENDATION, YOU SHOULD GO WORK FOR THIS PERSON, HE IS AN UP AND COMING SMART RESEARCHER AS MASS GENERAL AND HE DOES RESEARCH IN ANOREXIA. SO I REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO GO, I WAS LIKE OH Dr. WALKER I REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO EATING DISORDER RESEARCH ANYMORE, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE A GOOD FIT AND HE SAID GO TALK TO HIM. SO I WENT AND TALKED TO HIM AND INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH AFTER I INTERVIEWED WITH HIM, I SAID I AM KIND OF GETTING OUT OF THE EATING DISORDER FIELD AND THERE IS THIS NEW THING WITH PEOPLE HAVING SIDE EFFECTS WITH HIV AND I WOULD LIKE SOMEBODY WHO IS SMART LIKE YOURSELF TO WORK ON THIS TOPIC WITH ME. AND IT REALLY LAUNCHED MY CAREER AND WAS SUCH A HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR ME IN TERMS OF BECOMING A CLINICAL INVESTIGATOR AND ENTERING INTO A FIELD THAT WAS JUST BURGEONING AT THE TIME THAT HIV DRUGS SIDE EFFECTS WERE BECOMING AVAILABLE. AND THEN THE SECOND LISTEN WAS TO ANOTHER ADVISOR AND THAT WAS TIM WALSH WHO WAS THE PERSON I HAD DONE THE EATING DISORDER RESEARCH WITH AT COLUMBIA, HE HAS BEEN A LIFE LONG MENTOR. SO THE LESSON THERE IS WHEN YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD MENTOR, YOU WALK ON THAT RELATIONSHIP, GO BACK TO THAT RELATIONSHIP AND SUPPORT THAT RELATIONSHIP SO YOU HAVE IT ALL THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER. AND WHEN I WAS AT THE POINT IN MY CAREER TO CONSIDER POTENTIALLY LEAVING THE HARVARD SYSTEM AND COME TO THE NIH, I TALKED TO Dr. WALSH WHO HAD KNOWN ME AT THAT TIME FOR 15 OR MORE YEARS AND I PLAINED THAT I HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY AND THERE WAS SOMEBODY RECRUITING ME AT NIH TO DO RESEARCH ON SIDE EFFECTS TO WORK ON NIAID AND DO CLINICAL RESEARCH AND I WASN'T SURE I SHOULD TAKE THE POSITION AND HE SAID WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY. THE HOST ISN'T THAT GOOD BUT THERE IS SOMEBODY I KNOW AT NIH WHO IS IN CLINICAL MEDICINE BUT TRAINED IN HIV AND VERY TRUSTWORTHY AND A PERSON I COULD ASK AND I SAID ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT Dr. MAZZURI, AND HE SAID YES AND I SAID WELL THAT IS THE PERSON TRYING TO HIRE ME AND HE SAID OH, THEN THAT IS WELL. SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO SUPPORTS YOU AND CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE GOOD DECISIONS SO I DON'T REGRET THAT DECISION AT ALL AND RELY STILL ON BOTH OF THEM FOR SIGNIFICANT ADVICE. NOW ONE LAST THING THAT I HAVE USED WHEN I HAVE HAD MENTEES, TALKING ABOUT LISTENING IN A CONFERENCE ROOM AT A LECTURE, MAKE SURE TO LISTEN WHEN THE SMART PEOPLE ARE TALKING, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE DOING MOST OF THE TALKING ARE NOT THE SMARTEST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM, RIGHT? AND SO IT IS KIND OF LIKE THAT DISCERNMENT PIECE OF HOW TO LISTEN CAREFULLY AND PAYING ATTENTION TO THOSE WHO MAY BE SAYING THE MOST IMPORTANT OR INFLUENTIAL THINGS. SO THAT IS A SKILL TO WORK ON. NOW AS I HAD MENTIONED -- OR WAS MENTIONED IN MY BIO, I WENT TO THE HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND I ALSO WENT TO HOPKINS. WELL, IT WAS AT HOPKINS I MET MICHELLE WALENSKI AND WAS ALSO AT THE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND DURING THAT TIME, MICHELLE WAS ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE I HAD MET AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HIV RESEARCH AND SHE SAID YOU SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE THIS COURSE WITH ME WITH MARK BECAUSE HE IS REALLY FUN. AND IT DEFINITELY STRETCHED MY MATH SKILLS I HAVE TO SAY BUT MICHELLE WAS MY PARTNER ON MATH PROJECTS AND SHE KIND OF WALKED ME THROUGH. AND I REMEMBER SURVIVING A WHOLE YEAR OF IT. I CAME OUT SO MUCH SMARTER AND HAD MORE APPRECIATION FOR THE WORK THEY DID IN THE DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIOLOGY. NOW PATH FORWARD, WE HAVE THIS PANDEMIC AND I JUST REMEMBERED VERY DISTINCTLY IN APRIL OR MAY OF 2020, I WAS, LIKE ALL OF US, HOPING THIS WASN'T GOING TO BLOW UP AND BE THE HUGE THING THAT IT TURNED OUT TO BE AND MARC WAS BEING INTERVIEWED I THINK ON CNN AND HE GOT UP THERE AND JUST TOLD WHAT THE NUMBERS AND HIS SCIENCE TOLD HIM, RIGHT, WHICH WAS THAT SARS COV TRANSMISSION WAS GOING TO CONTINUE WELL THROUGH 2025 AND I REMEMBER GRASPING WHEN HE SAID THIS WOULD BE AROUND FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS AND NOBODY WANTED TO BELIEVE THAT BACK THEN, ESTIMATING 40-70 PERCENT OF THE WORLD POPULATION WOULD BE INFECTED AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WOULD DIE. IT WAS NOT POPULAR OR SOMETHING PEOPLE COULD WRAP THEIR HEAD AROUND BUT BY 2022, SO MUCH OF WHAT HE HAD SAID AND HIS COLLEAGUES BECAME TRUE AND THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION ESTIMATED ROUGHLY 40 PERCENT AND SOME POPULATIONS OF THE WORLD AT 70 PERCENT WHERE PEOPLE HAD ONE OR MORE INFECTIONS AND THAT 6 MILLION HAD DIED OF SARS COV2. SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE THEY WERE RIGHT AND IT WAS SMART OF US TO LISTEN TO THEM AND TO FOLLOW THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS. OKAY, SO NOW I JUST WANTED TO GIVE ONE BRIEF EXAMPLE OF LISTENING TO DATA AND THIS ACTUALLY COULD HAVE BEEN ENTITLED LISTEN TO YOUR PATIENTS AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH AN EXPERIENCE I HAD IN MY RESEARCH TIME DOING HIV WORK. SO AS I STATED, I CAME INTO DOING RESEARCH ON COMPLICATIONS OF HIV RIGHT AROUND THE TIME THAT ANTIVIRAL THERAPY WAS BECOMING WIDELY AVAILABLE WHICH LARGELY IMPACTED SURVIVAL FOR HIV BUT WITHIN A YEAR OR SO, WE STARTED NOTICING THAT THERE WERE ALSO UNDESIRABLE, UNANTICIPATED SIDE EFFECTS, UP WITH OF WHICH WAS THE DISFIGURING OR LIPOATROPHY, A SIGNIFICANT DROPPING OF SUBCUTANEOUS FAT IN THE LEGS, ARMS AND FACES OF OUR PATIENTS AS SEEN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH. SO MY FELLOWS WERE JUST REALLY BEGINNING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON TO UNDERSTAND WHAT PART OF THE MEDICATION WAS DOING IT AND BECAUSE PROTEASE INHIBITORS WERE MOPPING THE NEWEST CLASSES OF DRUGS THAT HAD JUST BEEN INTRODUCED AROUND THE TIME THIS REACTION WAS IDENTIFIED, MOST OF IT WAS ATTRIBUTED TO PROTEASE INHIBITORS. SO I ASSEMBLED A COHORT OF PATIENTS AND ASSESSED THEM FOR ALL THESE SIDE EFFECTS AND TOOK A DETAILED HISTORY OF ANY MEDICATION THEY HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO AND THEN TRIED TO SAY WHETHER THEY HAD THE SIDE EFFECTS AND GLUCOSE PROBLEMS. AND I WAS ANALYZING THE DATA OF THE PATIENTS AND RECOGNIZED QUICKLY IT WASN'T A PROTEASE INHIBITOR THAT CAUSED THIS FACIAL DISTURBANCE BUT RATHER LINKED TO THE PROTEASE. AND SO FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KNOW ABOUT HIV, IT WAS FOUND ASSOCIATED TO MITOCHONDRIAL TOXICITY TO THYM IDINE. SO WE HAD THAT INFORMATION ALREADY AND WHEN THE DATA ARE STAIRING YOU IN THE FACE, IT IS IMPORTANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT. NOW WHEN, NOT TO LISTEN. SO THESE ARE JUST EXAMPLES OF THINGS, SOME OF WHICH I THINK WE KIND OF HINTED ON IN THE PRELUDE OF AMAZING WOMEN AND CHALLENGES THEY HAD FACED. I THINK THINGS ARE A LOT BETTER RECENTLY BUT THERE ARE STILL CHALLENGES. SO THE FIRST ONE I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY IS ABOUT SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THE FIRST ROUND OF NOS. AND SOMETIMES EVEN THE SECOND OR THIRD ROUND OF NOS. SO THE FIRST IS I APPLIED TO HARVARD UNDERGRADUATE, THEY SAID NO THANK YOU. I APPLIED TO HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL, THEY SAID NO THANK YOU. I APPLIED TO HARVARD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND EVENTUALLY GOT IN AND I WAS TEACHING AT THE HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL SO I DIDN'T BEGIN UP AND OVER TIME WAS ABLE TO CONVINCE THEM OF MY MERITS WITHIN THEIR ORGANIZATION SO I DIDN'T GIVE UP THERE. THE SECOND ONE, WHICH IS ALSO INTERESTING AND SOMETIMES I EVEN TEND TO FORGET ABOUT THIS IS THAT BETWEEN UNDERGRADUATE AND GRADUATE SCHOOL, I ACTUALLY TYPED OUT AN APPLICATION AND SENT IT TO THE NIH FOR WHAT WAS PROBABLY THE EARLIER ITERATION OF AN INTERNSHIP. THAT PIECE OF PAPER, YOU KNOW, WENT OFF IN AN ENVELOPE WITH A STAMP AND I NEVER HEARD BACK. AND IT HURT, AND I REALLY THOUGHT I WAS A PERFECT FIT FOR THE NIH. AND MANY, MANY YEARS LATER, HERE I AM. I FOUND MY WAY HERE AND I DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN I STEPPED IN THE BUILDING, IT FELT LIKE I BELONGED HERE. SO I AM GLAD THAT I DIDN'T USE THAT FIRST NO TO BE THE LAST ASK THAT I WOULD MAKE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO FIND MY WAY HERE. NOW IN MEDICAL SCHOOL INTERVIEWS, I HAD SOME INTERESTING EXPERIENCES AS WELL. IT I HAD A DEAN OF ADMISSIONS ASK ME HOW I PLANNED TO BE A PHYSICIAN AND A MOTHER. I WAS TAKEN ABACK AND SURPRISED AND THOUGHT IT WAS NOT AN APPROPRIATE QUESTION AND TOLD THE INTERVIEWER I HAD KNOWN WOMEN WHO HAD VASTLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES OF BECOMING A MOTHER AND I HAD KNOWN CAREER WOMEN WHO STOPPED AND EMBRACED MOTHERHOOD AND WOMEN WHO RAPIDLY RETURNED TO WORK TO EMBRACE THEIR CAREER AND I COULDN'T POSSIBLY RESPOND HOW I WOULD RESPOND TO MOTHERHOOD AND THAT IT WAS A RIDICULOUS QUESTION. SO WHEN YOU HEAR THOSE QUESTIONS, REFLECT BACK TO THE ASKER WHAT MAKES SENSE OR DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE. AND THEN IN ANOTHER MEDICAL SCHOOL INTERVIEW, AGAIN, I WILL NOT NAME NAMES OR SCHOOLS, THIS WAS A MEDICAL GROUP THAT DID GROUP INTERVIEWS AND THERE WERE 16 PEOPLE INTERVIEWED AT SCHOOL, FOUR WOMEN, THE REST MEN AND THEY DID GROUPS OF FOUR INTERVIEWS SO WHEN THE FIRST ROUNDS WERE CALLED, THEY CALLED THE FOUR WOMEN TO DO AN INTERVIEW TOGETHER. AND THE INTERVIEW WAS KIND OF GOING ALONG AND THEY GOT TO THE WENT AND SAID DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AND I SAID CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THE FOUR WOMEN ARE BEING INTERVIEWED TOGETHER. AND THEY SAID WELL, I AM SURE THAT JUST HAPPENED BY CHANCE AND I SAID THAT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. AND THEY SAID WELL STATISTICALLY IT IS POSSIBLE AND I SAID OKAY, WELL THEN IT IS HIGHLY IMPROBABLE. SO THEY DISMISSED US AND I THOUGHT WELL I AM NEVER GOING TO GET IN THERE. AND THEN THE NEXT DAY I ACTUALLY RECEIVED A NOTIFICATION FROM THE DEAN OF ADMISSIONS WITH AN APOLICY APOLOGY WHO HAD LOOKED INTO IT AND THERE WAS SOMEBODY WHO THOUGHT IT WOULD BE CUTE FOR THE GIRLS TO INTERVIEW TOGETHER OR THE GIRLS WOULD BE INTIMIDATED TO INTERVIEW WITH THE MEN. SO THIS WAS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO REALIZE THAT WAS NOT PROBABLY THE RIGHT APPROACH TO CONSIDERING WOMEN APPLICANTS TO THEIR MEDICAL SCHOOL. ANOTHER TIME WAS I WANTED A FAST TRACK IN MY RESIDENCY. THE FAST TRACK WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO -- TO STAVE OFF A YEAR OF YOUR RESIDENCY AND DO A FELLOWSHIP TO GET CLOSER TO RESEARCH. AND WHEN I ASKED, I WAS TOLD OH THAT IS NOT FOR CLINICAL RESEARCH, IT IS FOR SCIENTISTS. AND I HAD TO KIND OF EXPLAIN TO THEM THAT CLINICAL RESEARCH IS SCIENCE, THAT IT TAKES A VERY LONG TIME TO BUILD UP AND HAVE A SUCCESSFUL CAREER IN CLINICAL RESEARCH AND THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO DO BASIC SCIENCE OR BENCH WORK. SO I RESPECTFULLY MADE MY CASE AND PROBABLY WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE AT BOSTON CHILDREN'S TO BE ABLE TO FAST TRACK THE FELLOWSHIP TO GET BACK INTO MY RESEARCH CAREER. SO THAT WAS KIND OF A NO I DIDN'T LISTEN TO AND KEPT PRESSING ON. AND THEN THE LAST IS CLINICAL TRIALS. SO WHEN Dr. GRAYSTONE ACCEPTED ME INTO HIS LAB AND RESEARCH GROUP TO DO CLINICAL RESEARCH I WAS AT THE SAME TIME TAKING MY MASTERS IN PUBLIC HEALTH. AND AT ONE POINT HE WAS KIND OF MENTORING ME THAT WELL, YOU CAN TAKE CLASSES OF CLINICAL TRIALS OR YOU CAN DO A CLINICAL TRIAL AND I THINK YOU MIGHT LEARN MORE IF YOU JUST SPEND THE TIME DOING A CLINICAL TRIAL. SO I BEGGED TO STILL DO SOME PART-TIME MASTERS IN PUBLIC HEALTH WORK BUT WAS BUSY DOING CLINICAL TRIALS AS WELL. SO WILL THE FIRST TRIAL, DATA CAME OUT AND WE SAT DOWN AND DID SOME OF THE PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS THAT INITIALLY LOOKED LIKE IT WAS A NEGATIVE RESULT. BUT I RECOGNIZED THE ANALYSIS THEY HAD APPLIED WAS NOT THE MOST APPROPRIATE WAY OF APPROACHING THE DATA. I HAD BEEN TAKING DATA AND STATISTICS IN MY MCH PROGRAM AND SHOWED HIM HOW I WOULD ANALYZE THE DATA AND HAVE A SIGNIFICANT RESULT WHICH WAS ULTIMATELY PUBLISHED IN B AMA. AND AT THAT POINT, HE WAS LIKE HOW DID YOU KNOW TO DO THAT AND I SAID WELL, IT WAS THOSE CLASSES AND AT THAT POINT, HE KIND OF BACKTRACKED AND SAID OKAY, TAKE THE CLASSES, DO THE CLINICAL TRIAL AND TAKE THE CLASSES. SO THOSE WERE EXAMPLES WHERE I DIDN'T QUITE LISTEN OR I LISTENED SELECTIVELY OR TRIED TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME BY BEING PERSISTENT. SO FOR THE LAST BIT, I JUST WANT TO TALK A TINY BIT ABOUT LISTENING TO LEAD AND WHY THAT IS IMPORTANT. AND A PERFECT EXAMPLE WAS ACTUALLY YESTERDAY. SO I AM TAKING A EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP COURSE WHICH HAS BEEN VERY INTERESTING, CHALLENGING AND HAS HELPED ME TO LEARN ALL THE DIFFERENT SKILLS THAT YOU NEED TO TRY AND ASPIRE TO BE A GOOD LEADER AND OUR EVENT YESTERDAY WAS SITTING DOWN WITH Dr. TABACK SO A SMALL GROUP OF US HAD A CHANCE TO SIT DOWN AND PICK HIS BRAIN AND HE HAD SOME VERY INSIGHTFUL OBSERVATIONS AND ANSWERED QUESTIONS AND ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAID THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY POIGNANT AND SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE HEARD HIM SAY THINGS SIMILAR TO THIS BEFORE. HE SAID IT IS NOT ABOUT BEING THE SMARTEST PERSON IN THE ROOM, IT IS ABOUT BEING IN THE ROOM WITH THE SMART PEOPLE, RIGHT? SO IF YOU ARE LEADING AN ORGANIZATION CAN GET THE SMART PEOPLE IN THE ROOM, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO LEAD IF YOU CAN LISTEN TO THEM AND KIND OF CHANNEL THEIR EXPERTISE. SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS GREAT. AND IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE SMART PEOPLE BUT ALL THE PEOPLE, RIGHT? SO LISTENING IS A LEADERSHIP RESPONSIBILITY AND IT DOESN'T ALWAYS APPEAR IN THE JOB DESCRIPTION. I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GREAT CARTOON AND ONE THAT IT SOUNDS WEIRD BUT LISTENING IS ACTUALLY THE WAY TO DO THE WORK. AND AGAIN THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO HAVE A VOICE TO, HAVE THE BENEFIT OF DIVERSITY TO THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION BUT LISTENING TO EVERYONE AND MAKING SURE WHEN YOU ARE IN A MEETING, YOU GIVE EVERYBODY A OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. SO 85 PERCENT OF WHAT WE LEARN, WE LEARN THROUGH LISTENING SO WE ONLY GENUINELY COMPREHEND 25 PERCENT. YOU WILL BE LUCKY IF YOU ONLY REMEMBER ONE THING I SAY BUT I WILL BE HAPPY WITH THAT. SO WE SPEND 85 PERCENT OF WHAT WE KNOW WE HAVE LEARNED THROUGH LISTENING, HUMANS GENERALLY LISTEN AT 25 PERCENT COMPS HENSATION AND IN A TYPICAL BUSINESS DAY, WE SPEND 45 PERCENT OF OUR TIME LISTENING, 30 PERCENT OF OUR TIME TALKING AND 16 PERCENT READING AND 9 PERCENT WRITING. LESS THAN 2 PERCENT OF ALL PROFESSIONALS HAVE HAD FORMAL EDUCATION OR LEARNING TO UNDERSTAND AND IMPROVE LISTENING SKILLS AND TECHNIQUES. SO IF YOU REFLECT ON THIS, OF COURSE IT MAKES SENSE. IT IS THE RARE PERSON WHO PICKS UP A TENNIS RACQUET OR GOLF CLUB AND BECOMES A PRO AND CAN PARTICIPATE ON THE MASTERS GOLF COURSE. YOU NEEDLESS SONS NEED LESSONS SO YOU CAN EXCEL IN THIS PART OF THE JOURNEY IN YEAR CAREER. AND THEN THE LAST PART OF LISTENING, I WANT TO POINT OUT I HAD A CLOSE COLLEAGUE AND MENTOR WHO RECOMMENDED LISTENING TO BOOKS ON AUDIBLE. AND IT WAS SUCH A SKIP TO START DOING THAT BECAUSE I HAD ALWAYS -- WOULD COME HOME AND I WOULD BE EXHAUSTED FROM MY BUSY DAY AT WORK AND READING FELT LIKE WORK BUT I STARTED LISTENING TO BOOKS WHILE I WALKED MY DOG AND I AM NOW 176 BOOKS DOWN THE PATH OF HAVING EXPANDED MY REPERTOIRE OF READING, AND THIS IS WHAT I AM FINISHING UP RIGHT NOW WHICH IS EAST OF EDEN BY DESIGN -- DESIGN BECK AND WILL WRAP UP MY TALK WITH THIS QUOTE. THIS IS A REFERENCE TO SAM HOOK WHO WAS AN IRISH PATRIARCH WHO BROUGHT THE BEST OUT IN PEOPLE BY ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE THEIR SAY. SO WITH THAT, I WILL ACTUALLY END MY SLIDES AND MY TALK AND FIND OUT IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS. >>AWESOME, THANK YOU, COLLEEN. THE CHAT ROOM IS OPEN FOR QUESTIONS. ALSO IF YOU ARE ON ZOOM, FEEL FREE TO UNMUTE AND/OR LET YOUR AUDIT YO SHOW AND CHIME IN. BUT THANKS FOR THAT HAVE VIEW AND IF PEOPLE ARE FEELING SHY OVER THE NEXT WEEK HOPEFULLY WE WILL PULL THEM OUT OF THEIR SHELLS AS THEY LISTEN. I WILL GIVE QUICK HIGHLIGHTS OF WHAT WE HEARD TODAY WHICH I LIKE TO DO AT THE END OF THESE AND PLEASE INTERRUPT ME AS SOON AS THERE IS A QUESTION OR SOMEBODY POPPING UP AND OPEN. I THINK WE -- KISSING THE BLARNEY STONE IS MY TAKE HOME POINT, THE 25 PERCENT I WILL TAKE HOME WHICH IS GIVING YOU THE GIFT OF GAB WHICH I SHARE WITH YOU BUT COMPLIMENTING IT WITH LISTENING MAKES IT A POWERFUL THING AND WE PRIOR UNITE YOUR LEADERSHIP AS WELL. SPEAKING ONLY IF IT IMPROVES ON THE QUIET AND THE SILENCE, THE GANDHI QUOTE, IS POWERFUL. LISTENING TO THEIR PARENTS AND OTHERS, AND TO DATA. AND I THINK WE ALL COULD USE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT IN TERMS OF POLITICS AND SPLITTING AND REALLY JUST TRYING TO LISTEN AND NOT ONLY LISTENING TO DATA TO AVOID MEDIA OVERLOAD BUT LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE'S PERSPECTIVES ARE AND WHY THEY FEEL A CERTAIN WAY. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE, PEOPLE HAVE OTHER BELIEFS THAT MAY IN FACT BE PURELY EVIL BUT HAVE SOME SORT OF TENDRIL OF RAGS NATIONAL RATIONALITY TO HELP US UNDERSTAND. YOUR PARENTS AS ROLE MODELS AND IF YOU LISTEN, YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW, FROM MICHELLE AND MARC, LISTENING TO THE DATA AND TO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW THE DATA AND PREDICT WHAT IS COMING IN THE FUTURE IS KEY. LISTENING TO YOUR MENTEES AND IN EVERY DIRECTION. WE OFTEN GET IN OUR BUBBLES, SOMEONE APPROACHES US AND ASKS A QUESTION AND WE WILL IMMEDIATELY ASSUME WE CAN SHARE SOMETHING WITH THEM INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING A LITTLE BIT AND THEN LISTENING TO THEIR PERSPECTIVE OF WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM. ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS IN THE CHAT. THANK YOU, VERY INSPIRING. I LOVE HOW YOU WERE PERSISTENT AND DIDN'T ALLOW NO TO STOP YOU. I HAVE LEARNED THAT EVERY NCI LEADS TO A YES -- EVERY NO, SORRY, LEADS TO A YES. SO FEEL FREE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF. >> YES, BRAD, I WILL TAKE IT FROM HERE, YOU LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF THE DATA. HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO TO LISTEN TO WHEN THERE IS DISAGREEMENT? SO YOU KNOW THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION. AND THERE IS SOME CONTEXT TO THAT STORY THAT I WILL TALK ABOUT AND IT HAS TO DO WITH -- IT WAS ACTUALLY RELATED TO SOME OF THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT OF THE TIME WHICH IS THE LIFE-SAVING DRUGS HAD REMARKABLY CHANGED EVERYTHING ABOUT HIV AND SO THOSE OF US WHO WERE IN FAVOR OF THE BENEFITS WERE TRYING TO MITIGATE WHAT THE RISKS WERE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WERE THE RISKS THAT PEOPLE WERE SEEING AS A RESULT OF EXPOSURE TO THESE MEDICATIONS. SO MY ADVISORS, WHEN I SAW THAT, WERE IN THIS CAMP OF LET'S NOT POINT AT ONE DRUG AND LET'S WORK AT JUST DESCRIBING WHAT WE'RE OBSERVING AND TRYING TO COME UP WITH STRATEGIES TO MAKE IT SAFER FOR THESE PATIENTS TO STAY ON THE MEDICATION. THERE WERE OTHERS WHO WERE THE ONES WHO WANTED TO GO AFTER ONE DRUG AND GET STATEMENTS FOR PROVING IT WAS THAT ONE DRUG. SO IN HINDSIGHT, I LEARNED THAT THE DATA WERE RIGHT AND I AM NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE THAT IF I HAD DONE THINGS DIFFERENTLY, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER BECAUSE WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO WAS WHAT WAS BEST FOR PATIENTS AND IN THOSE CASES, IT IS ALWAYS -- IT IS JUST THE TRUTH, IT IS NOT THE HOT STATEMENT OR THE AH-HA GOTCHA DATA, IT IS THE TRUTH. SO MY ADVISORS WERE CONSERVATIVE AND SAID I THINK WE SHOULD HOLD BACK TILL WE HAVE LARGER DATA SETS AND INFORMATION TO MAKE SURE THAT IS TRUE. AND MAYBE THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE WHAT WAS CONCERNING AT THE TIME IS SOME PATIENTS WERE STOPPING TAKING THEIR MEDS TO AVOID THE SIDE EFFECTS AND WE WEREN'T SURE ENOUGH TO SAY IT WAS WORTH THE RISK. WE KNEW IT WAS MORE RISKY TO HAVE UNCONTROLLED HIV THAN IT WAS TO HAVE THE SIDE EFFECTS SO I HOPE THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION. SO IT IS NOT ALWAYS EASY TO KNOW. >>SOMETIMES IT IS HARD TO FILTER OUT THE NOISE AND YOU APPOINTED OUT THE INTERVIEWS, AT ANY STAGE IN LIFE THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU J JUST HAVE TO FILTER OUT THE NOISE AND THERE IS ENOUGH GABBING WHETHER ON BLOGS OR ELSEWHERE WHERE PEOPLE ARE STRESSED AND WHEN PEOPLE ARE STRESSED, THEY ALL TURN AROUND AND GIVE INFORMATION YOU MAY NOT WANT OR NEED AND IT MAY BE SOMETIMES JUST TIME TO TURN AWAY FROM THAT DISINFORMATION. SO CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE DO EVERY DAY. LOO, LIKE THERE IS ANOTHER -- >>I HAVE A QUESTION. >>PLEASE DO. >>THANK YOU SO MUCH Dr. HADIGAN FOR THAT AMAZING TALK. WHAT REALLY STAYED IN MY MIND IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE SAID IN OTHER WORDS, BUT BASICALLY SOMETIMES YOU KNOW WHAT DISTURBS YOU IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE PAYING MOST ATTENTION TO, BECAUSE IT IS PROBABLY WHAT DISTURBS YOU THAT IS DIFFERENT TO WHAT YOU ARE THINKING. AND THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO GET DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS. YOU KNOW, IF YOU KEEP IGNORING WHAT YOU HEAR AS A DISTURBED VIEW, IT IS VERY COMFORTABLE BUT YOU ARE IGNORING A LOT OF DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS THAT TOGETHER WILL COME TO BETTER SOLUTIONS. AND I THINK THAT IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW. >>A HUNDRED PERCENT. AND IN FACT YOU KNOW HAVING SOMEBODY WHO IS GOING TO TELL YOU LIKE YOU ARE CRAZY OR YOU ARE MAKING A BAD CHOICE, LIKE YOU CAN'T SURROUND YOURSELF SIMPLY WITH PEOPLE WHO TELL YOU YOU ARE RIGHT OR SHARE YOUR VIEW BECAUSE THEN YOU WILL NEVER SEE ANYTHING BUT YOUR VIEW, RIGHT? YOU KIND OF HAVE YOUR LINEDDERS ON GOING DOWN ONE PATH AND TAKING EVERYBODY WITH YOU INSTEAD OF TAKING THE WIDE FIELD OF VIEW OFFER WHERE TO GO NEXT OR WHAT YOU NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR SO YEAH, I TOTALLY AGREE. AND MADELYN JUST OFFERED A BOOK UP CALLED "THE POWER OF KEEPING YOUR MOUTH SHUT IN AN ENDLESS NOISY WORLD" AND IT IS ON AUDIO SO I CAN LISTEN TO IT WHILE I WALK MY DOG. THANK YOU, MADELYN. I DO WANT TO SAY I TEMPER THIS A LITTLE BIT AND I HOPE I CONVEYED THIS, AS WOMEN YOU DON'T WANT TO NOT BE HEARD, RIGHT? SO STAYING QUIET AND BEING STRATEGIC AND PRECISE IN WHEN YOU STEP INTO A CONVERSATION MAY ACTUALLY HELP YOU GET HEARD BETTER, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO AVOID ALLOWING OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GRAB THE MIC FROM TAKING ALL THE AIR OUT OF THE ROOM AND NOT GIVING US AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE OUR WISDOM, INSIGHT, PERSPECTIVE AND OBSERVATION. SO THERE IS STILL PLENTY OF WORK FOR US TO KNOW HOW BEST TO DO THAT AND TO HONE THAT SKILL BUT TO NOT BE -- YOU KNOW, BEING CAREFUL NOT TO BE AFRAID TO SPEAK UP WHEN YOU REALLY DO KNOW THAT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO SAY ADDS SOMETHING TO THE CONVERSATION EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY NOT HAVE BEEN HANDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK FIRST. >>ALTHOUGH THE TIMING OF OF THAT IS SO IMPORTANT IN FIGURING OUT WHEN YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE AN IMPACT OR HAVE A SYMPATHETIC EAR POTENTIALLY AND THANK CECILIA FOR YOUR QUESTION ON UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS. OUR DEFENSE MECHANISMS MAKE US WANT TO STAY QUIET WHEN OPPORTUNITIES TO SPEAK PRESENT THEMSELVES AND ALSO TO TAKE THE EASY ROUTE WHERE WE DON'T LIKE TO THINK ABOUT THOSE DISTURBING THOUGHTS THAT MIGHT BE LURKING WITHIN US OR AMONGST US. SO HATS OFF TO COLLEEN FOR RAISING QUESTIONS AND SPEAKING HER MIND WHEN -- IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT INSTANCES SHE SAID ALONG THE ROAD OF INTERVIEWS. AND I WOULD SAY A NUMBER OF PEOPLE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE SPOKEN UP AND PROBABLY NONE OF THE MEN SPOKE UP AND ASKED WHY AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE WAY. WE SHOULD ALL BE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS OR AT LEAST RAISING AWARENESS ABOUT IT. AWARENESS IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS ANY KIND OF MEANINGFUL CHANGE. >>I WOULD LIKE TO IMAGINE THINGS ARE DIFFERENT NOW ALTHOUGH IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO. >>I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SO WHENEVER YOU ARE SURE OR WHENEVER YOU WANT TO SPEAK UP, HOW DO YOU GET THE CONFIDENCE? LIKE WHEN YOU ARE IN A ROOM SURROUNDED BY THE SMARTEST PEOPLE AND YOU ARE SURE ABOUT SOMETHING AND YOU ARE CONFIDENT ENOUGH BUT WHENEVER YOU SPEAK UP, THAT CONFIDENCE SETTLES, RIGHT, LIKE DISAPPEARS. MAYBE IT IS A TRAINING THING? LIKE GOING TO GET BETTER AT SOME POINT OR IS IT SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE WORKING ON? >>YEAH, AND I THINK YOU -- SO THE WAY I HAVE DONE IT IS I SPEAK UP WHEN I AM SURE, RIGHT? AND SO LET'S SAY IT IS NOT EVEN PUBLIC SPEAKING. A PERFECT EXAMPLE IS I AM REVIEWING AN ARTICLE SO IF I AM READING A SCIENTIFIC ARTICLE AND I KNOW THE TOPIC PRETTY WELL AND I AM PRETTY SURE THAT THEY EITHER MISSED SOMETHING IMPORTANT OR MISLED OR MISINTERPRETED THE LITERATURE OR DONE SOMETHING WRONG, I ACTUALLY, BEFORE I WILL WRITE THE COMMENT, I WILL PULL UP THE OTHER ARTICLES, I WILL READ THEM AGAIN, I WILL CONVINCE MYSELF THAT I AM RIGHT BEFORE I MAKE SOME KIND OF CRITICAL STATEMENT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER HAD IT BEEN WRITTEN THIS WAY. AND I DO THE SAME THING IN CLINICAL PRACTICE. IF I AM CONSULTED ABOUT A COMPLEX DISEASE, I WILL READ ABOUT THE DISEASE, READ THE SUPPORTING LITERATURE AROUND MY RECOMMENDATIONS OF DOING SOMETHING OR NOT DOING SOMETHING SO THEN I CAN GO INTO THE ROOM WITH CONFIDENCE WITHIN THE LIMITS OF WHAT MY OWN KNOWLEDGE IS AND WHAT I ACCUMULATED AND CAN AT LEAST TAKE IT THAT FAR. AND IF YOU PRACTICE THAT OVER TIME, YOU BECOME MORE COMFORTABLE IN YOUR ABILITY TO SAY I HAVE READ THIS INFORMATION, I HAVE REVIEWED THIS CASE OR READ THIS PAPER AND THESE THREE THINGS NEED TO BE DONE TO BE IMPROVED, RIGHT? AND SO THEN IT FEEDS ON ITSELF AND THEN YOU GET REWARDED FOR BRINGING GOOD QUALITY INPUT TO A CONVERSATION OR TO A CLINICAL CASE OR SCIENTIFIC PAPER AND ONCE YOU ARE REWARDED FOR DOING THAT, YOU WILL BUILD CONFIDENCE OF LIKE WELL THAT FELT GOOD SO I CAN DO IT AGAIN AND IT FEEDS ON ITSELF. IT REALLY COMES WITH TIME. >>AND PART OF THIS NURTURING IS AN ENVIRONMENT THAT LETS PEOPLE SPEAK UP AND I THINK ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN GREAT TO SEE FIRSTHAND IS THE CULTURE CHANGE EVIDENT AT NIH AS WELL IN TERMS OF PEOPLE FEELING COMFORTABLE SPEAKING UP AND SPEAKING THEIR MINDS. AND I THINK THAT GOES TO THE LEADERSHIP BUT IT IS NOT JUST THE LEADERSHIP BUT THAT YOU HAVE TO SPEAK UP WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING. YOU KNOW, I HAD SOMEBODY COME INTO THE OFFICE AFTER SAYING SOMETHING A FEW MONTHS AGO AND I WAS SUPER-PROUD BECAUSE THEY SAID WHAT WAS UP WITH THAT, WAS THAT COOL AND IT IS JUST -- YOU KNOW, I LOVE HAVING AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY SPEAK UP AND I THINK WE'RE GETTING THERE. IT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE THERE YET AND I THINK COMPLACENCY IS AN ENEMY HERE THINKING WE HAVE ACHIEVED ANYTHING. SO KEEP POUNDING AWAY AT WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE. DON'T ASSUME YOU ARE ANYWHERE, IF YOU THINK YOU ARE AWARE AND OPEN-MINDED IN GENERAL, NOT SPEAKING TO YOU, Dr. HADIGAN, SPEAKING TO EVERYBODY AND MYSELF, TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND. AND WITH THAT WE HAVE TO TRY TO THINK ABOUT -- WE ALL HAVE FOLKS THAT WILL COME UP AND WON'T BE AWARE OF THEIR OWN VIEWPOINTS AND IMPLICATIONS OF IT AND HOW IT MAY IMPACT TRAINEES OR SOMEONE ACROSS WHETHER THEIR PEERS OR THEIR SPECIALTY AND THINKING ABOUT REALLY WHAT MAKES THEM CLICK? WHAT MAKES THEIR OPINIONS DIFFERENT FROM OUR OWN? AND SOMETIMES I WILL ON A NEWS LEVEL SWAP AROUND AND LOOK AT OTHER CHANNELS I MIGHT NOT NORMALLY WATCH TO TRY TO APPRECIATE WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM. >>AND I WILL SHARE WITH YOU THIS GREAT STORY. SO WHEN I WAS WORKING AS A MANAGER ON THE OUTPATIENT CLINIC ON O C H, ON AN APRIL FOOL'S DAY, WE DID WALK IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S SHOES DAY. SO EVERYBODY DID ANOTHER PERSON'S JOB FOR THE DAY. WE MADE SURE EVERYBODY WAS SAFE BUT I WORKED IN THE TREATMENT ROOM DRAWING UP HEPERNIZED TUBES. AND Dr. LAINE WORKED AT THE FRONT DESK AND WE HAD A SECRETARY ROLE MODELING THE ATTENDING AND IT WAS REMARKABLE THE PERSPECTIVE THAT HAD ON OTHER PEOPLE'S ROLES WITH HOW THE CLINIC RAN WHEN YOU JUST DID IT FOR A MORNING, RIGHT? YOU SAW IT TRULY FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE AND WE CAN MENTALLY DO THAT ALL THE TIME. SO STOP FOR A MOMENT AND THINK WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO BE THAT PERSON RIGHT NOW AND WHAT THE OTHERS ARE DOING. IT IS EVEN MORE IMPACTFUL WHEN YOU CAN PUT THE OTHER'S SHOES ON AND DO IT AND IT FEEDS A SENSE OF APPRECIATION AND TEAM WORK ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE TRYING TO DO TEAM-BUILDING BECAUSE YOU TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR COLLEAGUES ARE EXPERIENCING IN THAT GROUP ENVIRONMENT. SO WHEN YOU CAN DO IT SAFELY AND FUN, IT -- AND APRIL FOOL'S DAY IS COMING UP SO YOU COULD DO IT COMING UP. >>IT IS BEING ARM AND ARM AND TAKING IT ON A BROADER PERSPECTIVE ON WHATEVER OUR GOALS AND OUR MISSION IS. SO THANK YOU TO YOUR LEADERSHIP, THANKS TO JOCELYNE AND AMY FOR CONTRIBUTING TODAY. ANY LAST-MINUTE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? AWESOME, THEN IT IS A WRAP. THANK YOU SO MUCH, COLLEEN. WE APPRECIATE IT YOU, THANKS FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AND REMEMBER OUR NEXT SERIES HERE, APRIL4TH, THERESE WILL BE SPEAK OINK ING ON A LEAKY PIPELINE, A FASCINATING TOPIC AND THEN IN MAY, WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER ON VOICE AND SOUND AI, WHAT IT MEANS TO GO FROM SPEECH PATHOLOGY TO DATA SCIENTIST TO RUNNING A HUGE MULTIENTER EFFORT. AND THEN UPCOMING TOPICS IN THE FUTURE, ACADEMY TO RADIOLOGY RESEARCH EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SOCIETY OF INTERVENTIONAL CON COLLING LEADERSHIP AND SOME OF OUR OWN INTERNAL WORKS ON PORTRAITURE AND WHAT THE IMPACT OF PORTRAITURE IS. SO LOOK FORWARD TO THOSE, HAVE A GREAT DAY EVERYBODY AND HAPPY SPRING. >>THANKS, BRAD, THANKS, EVERYBODY.