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GOOD MORNING EVERYONE,
AND

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WELCOME TO SESSION 7-H A COUPLE

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LOGISTIC ISSUES HERE.

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SO WE'RE GOING TO -- SORRY WE'RE

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GETTING STARTED JUST A MINUTE

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LATE.

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A COUPLE ADMINISTRATIVE

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ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM ME.

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HI, THIS IS HOLLY AGAIN.

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I SENT YOU ALL AN E-MAIL

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YESTERDAY.

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TODAY IS THE LAST DAY.

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WE'RE GOING TO SEND YOU THE

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POST-COURSE ASSESSMENT LATER

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TODAY WILL.

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IF YOU HAVE FOLLOWED THE COURSE

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LIVE, GO AHEAD AND TAKE IT AS

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SOON AS YOU WOULD LIKE TO.

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FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO NEED TO

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SPEND SOME TIME REVIEWING

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LECTURES AND TAKING QUIZZES, WE

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WILL RE-SEND IT ON THE 16TH.

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THE LAST DAY TO REVIEW RECORDED

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LECTURES AND COMPLETE -- AND TO

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COMPLETE QUIZ SZ TWO WEEKS FROM

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TODAY, THE 15TH OF NOVEMBER AT

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11:59 P.M. EASTERN TIME.

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AND ON YOUR CERTIFICATES WE ARE

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GOING TO PREPARE THOSE AFTER THE

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15TH SO WE CAN GET ALL THE DATA

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IN, YOU'LL GET IT BY DECEMBER 1

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OR FOUR WEEKS AFTER CLASS, AS WE

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ADVERTISED.

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SO A QUICK REVIEW OF TOAVMENTD

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FIRST THE WORD OF THE DAY IS

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NONINVASIVENESS.

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WE WERE GOING TO START WITH

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DR. MARIELLE GROSS ON WEARABLES,

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SHE'S RUNNING A LITTLE LATE, SO

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SASKIA HENDRIKS HAS NICELY

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STEPPED IN AND IS GOING TO DO

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HER LECTURE ON IMPLANTABLE BRAIN

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DEVICES.

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THEN WE'LL HAVE DR. GROSS TALK

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ABOUT WEARABLES, AND THEN WE'LL

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HAVE VAS RAHM -- AND THEN WE'LL

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HAVE VAS RAHIMZADEH RSZ TALK

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WILL LLM'S.

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SASKIA IS HERE AT THE NIH

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BIOETHICS AND HAS JOINT

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APPOINTMENT IN NEUROETHICS AT

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THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF

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NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS AND

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STROKES, FOCUSES HER RESEARCH ON

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RESEARCH ETHICS AND THE ETHICAL,

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SOCIAL AND LEGAL IMPLICATIONS OF

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EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, PRIMARILY

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IN NEUROSCIENCE AND

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REPRODUCTION, THEREFORE, SHE IS

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THE PERFECT PERSON TO START US

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OFF ON IMPLANTABLE BRAIN

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DEVICES, AND IT'S A LOVELY

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FOLLOW-UP TO THE LECTURE ON

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POST-TRIAL ACCESS THAT WE HAD

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LAST WEEK.

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SO I'LL HAND IT OFF TO SASKIA.

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>> THANK YOU SO MUCH,
HOLLY.

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IT'S A PLEASURE TO SPEAK HERE

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TODAY.

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OKAY.

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SO I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT BRAIN

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IMPLANTS.

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SO LET'S START HERE.

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WHY ARE WE IMPLANTING DEVICES IN

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PEOPLE'S BRAINS?

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WELL, NEUROLOGICAL AND MENTAL

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HEALTH DISORDERS ARE CAWGZ A

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HIGH BURDEN OF DISEASE, BOTH IN

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THE HAD U.S. AND WORLDWIDE.

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HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN

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EXCITING DEVELOPS IN ENGINEERING

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AND NEUROSCIENCE THAT THERE WE

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MAY BE DEVELOPING DEVICES THAT

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COULD ALLEVIATE THIS HIGH BURDEN

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OF DISEASE.

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SOME HAVE EVEN DESCRIBED THE

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CREATION OF NEW THERAPEUTIC

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TOOLS AND ETHICAL IMPERATIVE IN

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THIS SPACE.

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INDEED, SOME NEURAL IMPLANTS

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HAVE ARECEIVED REMARKABLE

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SUCCESSES SUCH AS FOR EXAMPLE

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DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION FOR

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PARKINSON'S DISEASE.

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FOR THIS DEVICE, A SPEECH

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PROCEDURE --

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>> UCSF RESEARCHERS HAVE
SHOWN

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THAT FULL WORDS AND SENTENCES

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CAN BE DECODED FROM THE BRAIN

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ACTIVITY A PERSON WITH PARALYSIS

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WHO IS UNABLE TO SPEAK.

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DR. EDWARD ARE -- WORKED A --

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WHO LOST THE ABILITY TO

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ARTICULATE WORDS FIFTEEN YEARS

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AGO, THE MAN HAS RELIED ON OTHER

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LIMITED MEANS TO COMMUNICATE.

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[MUSIC]

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IN THIS STUDY, AN ELECTRODE

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DEVICE WAS IMPLANT #-D OVER THE

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BRAIN AREA THAT NORMALLY

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CONTROLS THE VOCAL TRACT.

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A QUESTION WAS DISPLAYED FOR THE

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PARTICIPANT AND THE DEVICE

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RECORDED BRAIN ACTIVITY WHILE HE

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ATTEMPTED TO SPEAK IN REPLY.

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A COMPUTER ALGORITHM TRANSLATED

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THE BRAIN ACTIVITY PATTERNS INTO

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WORDS AND SENTENCES IN REALTIME

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HAD. -- IN REALTIME.

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[MUSIC]

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THE COMPUTER ALGORITHM WAS

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TRAINED TO DIFFERENTIATE AMONG

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50 WORDS THAT COULD GENERATE

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OVER 1,000 SENTENCES.

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WORDS WERE DECODE WD UP TO 93%

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ACCURACY AT 18 WORDS PER MINUTE.

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THIS IS THE FIRST TIME BRAIN

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ACTIVITY IN THE SPEECH CORTEX OF

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A PARALYZED PERSON HAS BEEN

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DECODED INTO FULL WORDS.

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[MUSIC]

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THE ADVANCE PAVES THE WAY FOR

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NEW TECHNOLOGY TO RESTORE

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NATURAL AND RAPID COMMUNICATION

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FOR PEOPLE WITH SEVERE PARALYSIS

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.

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>> OKAY.

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SO AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE,

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HOWEVER, IN ORDER TO CREATE

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THESE NEW DEVICES AS THEY ARE

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THERAPEUTIC TOOLS, WE FIRST NEED

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CLINICAL RESEARCH TO MAKE SURE

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THEY'RE WORKING AND ARE

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SUFFICIENTLY SAFE.

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NOW, THIS CLIN -- THESE CLINICAL

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TRIALS RAISE A NUMBER OF ETHICAL

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CHALLENGES, AS YOU YOU MIGHT

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IMAGINE.

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OF COURSE THERE IS ALREADY

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GUIDANCE ON HOW TO DO CLINICAL

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RESEARCH ETHICALLY, AS YOU'VE

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LEARNED DURING THE COURSE OF

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THIS COURSE, AND WE CAN HEAVILY

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DRAW ON THAT, ALSO FOR THIS

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SPACE.

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HOWEVER, SOME OF THE NUANCES AND

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THE CONTEXT RELATED FACTORS IN

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THIS SPACE REQUIRE SPECIFICATION

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AND INTERPRETATION OF THIS

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EXISTING GUIDANCE IN THESE

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SPECIFIC CHALLENGES.

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THE NIH BRAIN INITIATIVE

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NEUROETHICS WORKING GROUP

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IDENTIFIED THE ETHICS OF NEURAL

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ARE BRAIN DEVICE AS A PRIORITY

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AREA.

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SO TODAY I'LL DISCUSS TWO

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SPECIFIC ETHICAL CHALLENGES THAT

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WERE IDENTIFIED AS CRITICAL TO

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THIS TYPE OF RESEARCH.

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FIRST IS THE ANALYSIS AND

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ASSESSMENT OF RISK.

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SECOND IS POST-TRIAL

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RESPONSIBILITIES, AND I'LL SPEND

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MOST OF MY TIME THERE.

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SO LET'S START WITH RISKS.

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SO DETERMINING THE TYPE AND

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EXTENT OF RISKS IN THESE TYPES

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OF TRIALS IS FUNDAMENTAL TO

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EVALUATING THE ETHICS OF NEURAL

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DEVICE STUDIES AS IT IS IN OTHER

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TYPES OF TRIALS THIS.

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ALLOWS US TO PROTECT RESEARCH

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PARTICIPANTS FROM UNNECESSARY

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HARM, TO INFORM THE RISK/BENEFIT

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EVALUATION AND DETERMINE WHETHER

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A STUDY IS ETHICAL TO CONDUCT

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AND TO ENABLE PROPER INFORMED

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CONSENT.

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IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE TYPES OF

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STUDIES, THERE ARE SIX SOURCES

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OF RISKS THAT MAY COME UP IN

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THESE TRIALS.

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SOME OF THESE RISKS MAY HAVE

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SPECIAL MEANING TO PATIENTS

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BECAUSE THEY RELATE TO THE

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BRAIN.

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SO FIRST, SURGERY FOR IMPLANTING

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OR REPLACING INVASIVE DEVICES

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CAUSES RISKS, INCLUDING THOSE OF

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LIKE HEMORRHAGE, STROKE AND

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SEIZURES.

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OF COURSE, THERE'S ALSO GENERAL

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PERKS RI OPERATIVE COMPLICATIONS

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THAT ARE RARE BUT CAN BE SEVERE

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WHEN THEY OCCUR, LIKE DEEP VEIN

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THROMBOSIS.

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SECOND, HARDWARE THAT'S

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IMPLANTED IN BRAINS POSES RISKS,

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INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE N A LEAD

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CAN BREAK, CAN MIGRATE OR

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MALFUNCTION, SOME OF WHICH MAY

213
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REQUIRE ADDITIONAL SURGERY, BUT

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MAY ALSO CAUSE THINGS LIKE

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BLEEDING AND SO ON.

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THE STIMULATION OF THESE DEVICES

217
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CAN CAUSE ADVERSE EFFECTS.

218
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FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE SEEN THINGS

219
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LIKE SPEECH DISTURBANCES,

220
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PARESTHESIAS AND EFFECTIVE

221
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DISRUPTIONS WITH THE USE OF DEEP

222
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BRAIN STIMULATION, DBS.

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SIDE EFFECTS TEND ON DEPEND ON

224
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THE LEVEL AND FOCUS OF THE

225
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STIMULATION AND CAN OFTEN BE

226
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SOMEWHAT ALLEVIATED BY ADJUSTING

227
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THE SETTINGS OF THE DEVICE AND

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STIMULATION, ALTHOUGH IN THIS

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CASE SOMETIMES THIS INVOLVES

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TRADE-OFFS WITH THE THERAPEUTIC

231
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EFFECTS.

232
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SOME STUDIES ALSO REPORT ON

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EFFECTS OF DBS AND OTHER

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DEVICES, ON COGNITION,

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PERSONALITY, MOOD AND BEHAVIOR,

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SOMETIMES DESCRIBED AS ATYPICAL

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RISKS.

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THESE CHANGES ARE REALLY POORLY

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UNDERSTOOD, AND UNPREDICTABLE.

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AFFECTS ON PERSONALITY OR

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BEHAVIOR MAY BE INTEND OR

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UNINTENDED, MAY BE CONSIDERED

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BENEFICIAL OR HARMFUL AND MAY BE

244
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EVALUATED DIFFERENTLY DEPENDING

245
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ON WHO YOU ASK, THE PARENT OR

246
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THE CAREGIVER OR SOMEONE ELSE.

247
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WE NEED FURTHER RESEARCH TO

248
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STUDY HOW OFTEN THESE TYPES OF

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PERSONALITY CHANGES AND

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BEHAVIORAL CHANGES OCCUR,

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CHARACTERIZED, WHEN THEY ARE

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PROBLEMATIC AND WEIGH HOW THESE

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RISKS WEIGH AGAINST POSSIBLE

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THERAPEUTIC BENEFITS.

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AS I'M SURE IS NOT A SURPRISE TO

256
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YOU AT THIS POINT IN THE COURSE,

257
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RESEARCH ITSELF MAY ENTAIL SOME

258
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INCREMENTAL RISKS, INCLUDING,

259
00:09:28,603 --> 00:09:29,704
FOR EXAMPLE, RISKS OF PROCEDURES

260
00:09:29,704 --> 00:09:33,208
THAT ARE CONDUCTED ONLY FOR

261
00:09:33,208 --> 00:09:34,743
RESEARCH PURPOSES, LIKE

262
00:09:34,743 --> 00:09:36,811
EXTENDING A CLINICALLY INDICATED

263
00:09:36,811 --> 00:09:38,113
SURGERY IN ORDER TO DO MORE

264
00:09:38,113 --> 00:09:41,216
MEASUREMENT OF THE BRAIN.

265
00:09:41,216 --> 00:09:43,385
WE ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER PRIVACY

266
00:09:43,385 --> 00:09:44,052
AND SECURITY.

267
00:09:44,052 --> 00:09:48,423
SO IN TERMS OF PRIVACY, WE

268
00:09:48,423 --> 00:09:51,293
ANALYZE AGGREGATE GRAIN THE MAY

269
00:09:51,293 --> 00:09:52,394
DISCLOSE SENSITIVE OR PRIVATE

270
00:09:52,394 --> 00:09:53,929
INFORMATION ABOUT INDIVIDUALS,

271
00:09:53,929 --> 00:09:55,230
AND THOSE SNROSTLED A TRIAL

272
00:09:55,230 --> 00:09:57,098
SHOULD THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT

273
00:09:57,098 --> 00:09:58,533
WEIGHING THE SOCIAL AND

274
00:09:58,533 --> 00:10:00,168
SCIENTIFIC VALUES OF SHARING

275
00:10:00,168 --> 00:10:01,369
DATA WITH THE PRIVACY INTERESTS

276
00:10:01,369 --> 00:10:04,105
AND OTHER INTERESTS OF POTENTIAL

277
00:10:04,105 --> 00:10:04,439
PARTICIPANTS.

278
00:10:04,439 --> 00:10:07,142
THERE'S ALSO SOME CONCERN ABOUT

279
00:10:07,142 --> 00:10:10,011
THIRD PARTY HACKING OF THE

280
00:10:10,011 --> 00:10:12,213
DEVICE, RESULTING IN

281
00:10:12,213 --> 00:10:14,282
UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO DATA, OR

282
00:10:14,282 --> 00:10:16,384
EVEN CHANGING DEVICE SETTINGS,

283
00:10:16,384 --> 00:10:19,020
WHICH COULD POSE SERIOUS HEALTH

284
00:10:19,020 --> 00:10:19,988
RISKS FOR INDIVIDUALS.

285
00:10:19,988 --> 00:10:21,289
I'M UNAWARE OF ANY OF THESE

286
00:10:21,289 --> 00:10:22,624
CASES THAT HAVE ACTUALLY

287
00:10:22,624 --> 00:10:24,492
OCCURRED, BUT THIS IS A RISK

288
00:10:24,492 --> 00:10:25,794
THAT WE'RE BECOMING MORE AWARE

289
00:10:25,794 --> 00:10:28,997
OF FOR IMPLANTED DEVICES IN

290
00:10:28,997 --> 00:10:29,230
GENERAL.

291
00:10:29,230 --> 00:10:30,966
ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS

292
00:10:30,966 --> 00:10:32,567
POTENTIAL FINANCIAL BURDENS.

293
00:10:32,567 --> 00:10:34,336
FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE IS A

294
00:10:34,336 --> 00:10:35,770
COMPLICATION THAT LEADS TO

295
00:10:35,770 --> 00:10:36,771
LONG-TERM DISABILITY, THIS MIGHT

296
00:10:36,771 --> 00:10:40,475
HAVE A FINANCIAL IMPACT ON THE

297
00:10:40,475 --> 00:10:40,709
PATIENT.

298
00:10:40,709 --> 00:10:43,311
SO IN OUR VIEW, A RESEARCH

299
00:10:43,311 --> 00:10:44,946
PROTOCOL SHOULD BE EVALUATED FOR

300
00:10:44,946 --> 00:10:48,049
THESE SIX SOURCES OF RISKS IN

301
00:10:48,049 --> 00:10:51,987
TERMS OF MAKING THE RISK/BENEFIT

302
00:10:51,987 --> 00:10:52,320
CALCULATION.

303
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,189
SO AS ALWAYS, WE WANT TO

304
00:10:54,189 --> 00:10:56,057
MINIMIZE THE RISKS AS FAR AS

305
00:10:56,057 --> 00:10:57,959
POSSIBLE WITHIN WHAT'S POSSIBLE

306
00:10:57,959 --> 00:10:59,461
FOR THE GOALS OF THE STUDY, AND

307
00:10:59,461 --> 00:11:01,463
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE

308
00:11:01,463 --> 00:11:02,864
BENEFITS TO PARTICIPANTS AND

309
00:11:02,864 --> 00:11:05,367
SOCIETY ARE PROPORTIONATE TO OR

310
00:11:05,367 --> 00:11:06,935
OUTWEIGH THE RISKS OF ANY OF

311
00:11:06,935 --> 00:11:07,936
THESE RESEARCH STUDIES.

312
00:11:07,936 --> 00:11:10,105
IN THE CONTEXT OF BRAIN

313
00:11:10,105 --> 00:11:11,973
IMPLANTS, THE RISKS ARE

314
00:11:11,973 --> 00:11:13,508
SUFFICIENTLY HIGH, THAT WE TEND

315
00:11:13,508 --> 00:11:15,710
TONT DO THIS -- THAT WE TEND TO

316
00:11:15,710 --> 00:11:18,213
NOT DO THIS RESEARCH WITH BRAIN

317
00:11:18,213 --> 00:11:20,382
IMPLANTS UNLESS THERE'S EITHER A

318
00:11:20,382 --> 00:11:21,616
SUFFICIENT THERAPEUTIC BENEFIT

319
00:11:21,616 --> 00:11:24,552
TO COMPENSATE THE RISK TO

320
00:11:24,552 --> 00:11:26,855
INDIVIDUALS, OR WE ADD ON A

321
00:11:26,855 --> 00:11:28,490
RESEARCH PROCEDURE TO A

322
00:11:28,490 --> 00:11:30,225
CLINICALLY INDICATED BRAIN

323
00:11:30,225 --> 00:11:32,627
SURGERY, SO FOR EXAMPLE, WE DO

324
00:11:32,627 --> 00:11:34,062
SOME MEASUREMENTS TO BETTER

325
00:11:34,062 --> 00:11:36,598
UNDERSTAND THE BRAIN ON

326
00:11:36,598 --> 00:11:38,333
CONSENTING PATIENTS WHO ARE

327
00:11:38,333 --> 00:11:41,636
UNDERGOING EPILEPSY SURGERY, FOR

328
00:11:41,636 --> 00:11:42,170
EXAMPLE.

329
00:11:42,170 --> 00:11:45,173
SO IN TERMS OF RISK LIMITS OF

330
00:11:45,173 --> 00:11:46,474
ACCEPTABLE RISKS IN THESE TYPES

331
00:11:46,474 --> 00:11:47,709
OF RESEARCH, OF COURSE IT

332
00:11:47,709 --> 00:11:49,577
DEPENDS ON WHETHER IT HAS A

333
00:11:49,577 --> 00:11:52,080
THERAPEUTIC INTENT OR NOT.

334
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,716
WITHIN RESEARCH, WITH A -- WHAT

335
00:11:54,716 --> 00:11:57,252
ARE THE PROSPECTS OF BENEFITS.

336
00:11:57,252 --> 00:12:05,694
AS IN ALL SURGERIES, RISKS ARE

337
00:12:05,694 --> 00:12:07,195
CR DEPENDENT ON BENEFITS.

338
00:12:07,195 --> 00:12:09,631
WITH TRIALS T PATIENTS WITH

339
00:12:09,631 --> 00:12:10,398
TREATMENT-RESISTANT DISORDERS,

340
00:12:10,398 --> 00:12:12,033
FOR WHOM THIS IS A LAST RESORT

341
00:12:12,033 --> 00:12:14,169
OF SOME KIND, AND PATIENTS WITH

342
00:12:14,169 --> 00:12:17,372
SIGNIFICANT BURDENS OF DISEASE.

343
00:12:17,372 --> 00:12:20,775
SO MORE PROTECTION MAY BE

344
00:12:20,775 --> 00:12:21,776
APPROPRIATE FOR CERTAIN

345
00:12:21,776 --> 00:12:24,946
VULNERABLE GROUPS, SUCH AS

346
00:12:24,946 --> 00:12:27,682
ADULTS IF WITH THE, WITH THE

347
00:12:27,682 --> 00:12:28,783
CAPACITY -- OR A PARENT WITH

348
00:12:28,783 --> 00:12:31,286
CAPACITY FOR CONSENT, AS ALWAYS,

349
00:12:31,286 --> 00:12:33,254
PROTECTING VULNERABLE APARTMENT

350
00:12:33,254 --> 00:12:34,956
ANTS BY EXCLUDING THEM FROM

351
00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:36,925
RESEARCH ALSO DEPRIVES THEM OF

352
00:12:36,925 --> 00:12:38,059
THE POTENTIAL BENEFIT TO

353
00:12:38,059 --> 00:12:40,228
RESEARCH AND MAY EXPOSE THE

354
00:12:40,228 --> 00:12:41,763
POPULATION TO MORE RISKS LATER

355
00:12:41,763 --> 00:12:43,865
ON IF INTERVENTIONSES ARE USED

356
00:12:43,865 --> 00:12:45,066
WITHOUT EVIDENCE IN THIS

357
00:12:45,066 --> 00:12:46,034
SPECIFIC TARGET POPULATION.

358
00:12:46,034 --> 00:12:47,902
SO IN TERMS OF RESEARCH WITHOUT

359
00:12:47,902 --> 00:12:49,170
A PROSPECT OF BENEFIT, THESE

360
00:12:49,170 --> 00:12:52,807
WOULD BE THE ADD-ON TYPE OF

361
00:12:52,807 --> 00:12:55,009
STUDIES, THERE'S A NUMBER OF

362
00:12:55,009 --> 00:12:56,544
QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW MUCH RISK IS

363
00:12:56,544 --> 00:12:58,413
ACCEPTABLE FOR THESE TYPES OF

364
00:12:58,413 --> 00:13:00,181
INTERVENTIONS WITHOUT PROSPECT

365
00:13:00,181 --> 00:13:01,015
OF BENEFIT.

366
00:13:01,015 --> 00:13:02,050
FOR EXAMPLE, HOW LONG IS IT

367
00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:07,255
ACCEPTABLE TO PROLONG A SURGERY,

368
00:13:07,255 --> 00:13:08,623
AND I BRAIN SURGERY, IN ORDER TO

369
00:13:08,623 --> 00:13:10,592
JUST OBTAIN MORE KNOWLEDGE FOR

370
00:13:10,592 --> 00:13:12,327
SOCIETY AND SCIENCE.

371
00:13:12,327 --> 00:13:12,560
OKAY.

372
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:18,900
SO LET'S MOVE TO POST-TRIAL

373
00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:21,202
RESPONSIBILITIES.

374
00:13:21,202 --> 00:13:22,937
SO OBVIOUSLY SINCE THIS IS

375
00:13:22,937 --> 00:13:24,839
CLINICAL RESEARCH, PARTICIPANTS

376
00:13:24,839 --> 00:13:26,241
MAY OR MAY NOT BENEFIT FROM

377
00:13:26,241 --> 00:13:27,208
PARTICIPATING IN A CLINICAL

378
00:13:27,208 --> 00:13:28,643
TRIAL BUT IN MANY OF THESE CASES

379
00:13:28,643 --> 00:13:29,944
OF A RESEARCH WITH THE PROSPECT

380
00:13:29,944 --> 00:13:34,783
OF BENEFIT, THE PROSPECT OF

381
00:13:34,783 --> 00:13:36,417
POTENTIAL BENEFIT IS A STRONG

382
00:13:36,417 --> 00:13:37,519
MOTIVATOR FOR PARTICIPANTS TO

383
00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:38,720
WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THESE

384
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,455
STUDIES, AND FOR THE MOST PART,

385
00:13:40,455 --> 00:13:42,957
GUIDED BY REGULATIONS AND

386
00:13:42,957 --> 00:13:44,926
ETHICAL FRAMEWORKS,

387
00:13:44,926 --> 00:13:45,693
PARTICIPANTS' INTEREST DURING

388
00:13:45,693 --> 00:13:47,562
THESE TRIALS ARE CAREFULLY

389
00:13:47,562 --> 00:13:48,229
PROTECTED.

390
00:13:48,229 --> 00:13:50,098
HOWEVER, ONE AREA THAT REMAINS

391
00:13:50,098 --> 00:13:52,066
INSUFFICIENTLY ADDRESSED, IN MY

392
00:13:52,066 --> 00:13:54,235
VIEW, IS WHAT HAPPENS TO

393
00:13:54,235 --> 00:13:55,670
PARTICIPANTS WITH THEIR MEDICAL

394
00:13:55,670 --> 00:14:00,809
NEEDS RELATED TO THE DEVICE

395
00:14:00,809 --> 00:14:03,311
AFTER THEIR TRIAL PARTICIPATION

396
00:14:03,311 --> 00:14:03,545
ENDS.

397
00:14:03,545 --> 00:14:05,380
SLOAT ME START WITH A CASE -- SO

398
00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:06,815
LET ME START WITH A CASE, THIS

399
00:14:06,815 --> 00:14:12,487
IS UNFORTUNATELY AN ACTUAL CASE

400
00:14:12,487 --> 00:14:14,422
REPORTED BY JOE BAIRD.

401
00:14:14,422 --> 00:14:18,359
THIS IS A PATIENT WITH SEVERE

402
00:14:18,359 --> 00:14:19,894
EPILEPSY SINCE CHILDHOOD W A

403
00:14:19,894 --> 00:14:21,963
PROFOUND IMPACT ON QUALITY OF

404
00:14:21,963 --> 00:14:22,297
LIFE.

405
00:14:22,297 --> 00:14:23,598
THIS PATIENT VOLUNTEERED FOR

406
00:14:23,598 --> 00:14:26,868
FIRST IN HUMAN TRIAL FOR A BRAIN

407
00:14:26,868 --> 00:14:28,736
COMPUTER INTERFACE WHICH USES

408
00:14:28,736 --> 00:14:30,538
DATA TO PREDICT WHEN EPILEPTIC

409
00:14:30,538 --> 00:14:32,574
PROCEDURES WERE ABOUT TO HAPPEN.

410
00:14:32,574 --> 00:14:33,875
THE BRAIN COMPUTER INTERFACE

411
00:14:33,875 --> 00:14:36,077
THEN ALERTED THE PATIENT,

412
00:14:36,077 --> 00:14:40,048
ALLOWING THEM TO TAKE

413
00:14:40,048 --> 00:14:43,818
PROPHYLACTIC MEDICATION SO THIS

414
00:14:43,818 --> 00:14:45,420
PATIENT WENT FROM AN AVERAGE OF

415
00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:47,589
THREE SEIZURES A MONTH TO NONE,

416
00:14:47,589 --> 00:14:49,023
WHICH PROFOUNDLY IMPACTED HER

417
00:14:49,023 --> 00:14:50,892
QUALITY OF LIFE, THE TYPES OF

418
00:14:50,892 --> 00:14:51,860
ACTIVITIES SHE WAS ABLE TO

419
00:14:51,860 --> 00:14:55,163
ENGAGE IN AND SO ON.

420
00:14:55,163 --> 00:14:56,664
THEN, THE COMPANY EXPERIENCED

421
00:14:56,664 --> 00:14:58,967
WHAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS

422
00:14:58,967 --> 00:15:01,402
FINANCIAL CONSTRAINTS, I BELIEVE

423
00:15:01,402 --> 00:15:06,774
IT FOLDED, AND RECOMMENDED

424
00:15:06,774 --> 00:15:07,175
EXPLANTATION.

425
00:15:07,175 --> 00:15:08,710
LET'S SEE WHAT SHE SAYS, TO HELP

426
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:09,377
US UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS

427
00:15:09,377 --> 00:15:11,379
EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE FOR THIS

428
00:15:11,379 --> 00:15:11,713
PARTICIPANT.

429
00:15:11,713 --> 00:15:13,081
I WISH I COULD HAVE KEPT IT.

430
00:15:13,081 --> 00:15:14,115
I WOULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO

431
00:15:14,115 --> 00:15:15,383
KEEP IT.

432
00:15:15,383 --> 00:15:16,818
I WANTED TO STAY WITH IT.

433
00:15:16,818 --> 00:15:17,919
I WOULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING.

434
00:15:17,919 --> 00:15:19,587
I WOULD HAVE PAID MONEY, I WOULD

435
00:15:19,587 --> 00:15:21,656
HAVE DONE ANYTHING I COULD HAVE.

436
00:15:21,656 --> 00:15:23,958
TO THIS DATE, I'VE NEVER AGAIN

437
00:15:23,958 --> 00:15:26,661
FELT AS SAFE AND SECURE, NOR AM

438
00:15:26,661 --> 00:15:28,496
I THE HAPPY, OUTGOING CONFIDENT

439
00:15:28,496 --> 00:15:29,130
WOMAN I WAS.

440
00:15:29,130 --> 00:15:30,131
I ALWAYS FELT LIKE THERE WAS

441
00:15:30,131 --> 00:15:33,735
PART OF ME MISSING, LIKE I HAD

442
00:15:33,735 --> 00:15:34,836
FORGOTTEN OR LEFT SOMETHING

443
00:15:34,836 --> 00:15:40,174
BEHIND, A PART OF ME.

444
00:15:40,174 --> 00:15:42,477
JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A

445
00:15:42,477 --> 00:15:44,445
DIFFERENT FLAVOR HERE, THIS IS

446
00:15:44,445 --> 00:15:47,515
THE SECOND CASE A PATIENT WITH

447
00:15:47,515 --> 00:15:48,850
TREATMENT-RESISTANT DEPRESSION

448
00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:53,421
WHO HAD UNDERGONE A LOT OF

449
00:15:53,421 --> 00:15:55,957
DIFFERENT CLINICALLY INDICATED

450
00:15:55,957 --> 00:15:58,226
THERAPIES WITHOUT AN EFFECT, AND

451
00:15:58,226 --> 00:15:59,994
SHE DECIDED TO PARTICIPATE IN A

452
00:15:59,994 --> 00:16:02,497
TRIAL INVOLVING DEEP BRAIN

453
00:16:02,497 --> 00:16:02,830
STIMULATION.

454
00:16:02,830 --> 00:16:06,200
AFTER THE TRIAL, SHE WAS ALLOWED

455
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,770
TO KEEP THE DEVICE, AND SHE WAS

456
00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:10,972
VERY HAPPY BECAUSE SHE WAS

457
00:16:10,972 --> 00:16:12,373
FINALLY BENEFITING.

458
00:16:12,373 --> 00:16:14,676
SO HER CLINICAL DEPRESSION

459
00:16:14,676 --> 00:16:18,713
SCORES WENT DOWN.

460
00:16:18,713 --> 00:16:21,783
SO HOWEVER, WHILE SHE HAD THIS

461
00:16:21,783 --> 00:16:23,651
IMPLANT, WHICH WAS BENEFITING

462
00:16:23,651 --> 00:16:28,356
HER, THE DEVICE AT THIS JUNCTURE

463
00:16:28,356 --> 00:16:30,124
WAS NOT YET FDA APPROVED FOR

464
00:16:30,124 --> 00:16:30,725
THIS INDICATION.

465
00:16:30,725 --> 00:16:33,394
SO SHE SAYS, FOR ME, THIS DEVICE

466
00:16:33,394 --> 00:16:35,196
IS NOT AN EXPERIMENT ANYMORE.

467
00:16:35,196 --> 00:16:36,698
WE KNOW THIS WORKS.

468
00:16:36,698 --> 00:16:39,300
THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT DID

469
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:39,701
WORK.

470
00:16:39,701 --> 00:16:41,569
IF I NEED A BATTERY REPLACEMENT

471
00:16:41,569 --> 00:16:43,338
OR LEAD FIXED OR ANY OF THOSE

472
00:16:43,338 --> 00:16:45,540
THINGS, IT'S A WAY TO KEEP ME

473
00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:46,174
ALIVE.

474
00:16:46,174 --> 00:16:48,609
SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT, I WILL

475
00:16:48,609 --> 00:16:50,278
NEVER KNOW FROM ONE SURGERY TO

476
00:16:50,278 --> 00:16:52,213
THE NEXT IF THE NEXT ONE WILL BE

477
00:16:52,213 --> 00:16:56,517
COVERED BY MY INSURANCE.

478
00:16:56,517 --> 00:16:58,052
MANY.

479
00:16:58,052 --> 00:16:58,252
OKAY.

480
00:16:58,252 --> 00:16:59,887
SO UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE SEEN

481
00:16:59,887 --> 00:17:01,556
SEVERAL CASES IN THE MEDIA OVER

482
00:17:01,556 --> 00:17:04,225
THE PAST YEARS IN WHICH PATIENTS

483
00:17:04,225 --> 00:17:06,260
WERE LEFT WITH A DEFURNGHT

484
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:08,196
DEVICE AFTER GETTING -- DEFUNCT

485
00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:09,764
DEVICE AFTER GETTING A BRAIN

486
00:17:09,764 --> 00:17:10,198
IMPLANT.

487
00:17:10,198 --> 00:17:11,499
FORMER PATIENTS WHO LACK ACCESS

488
00:17:11,499 --> 00:17:13,568
TO THIS TYPE OF CARE CAN

489
00:17:13,568 --> 00:17:15,103
OBVIOUSLY EXPERIENCE SYMPTOM

490
00:17:15,103 --> 00:17:17,972
REBOUND BUT MAY ALSO EXPERIENCE

491
00:17:17,972 --> 00:17:20,241
INCREASED RISKS AND/OR HIGH

492
00:17:20,241 --> 00:17:22,744
OUT-OF-POCKET EXPENSES.

493
00:17:22,744 --> 00:17:24,078
SO THE GENERAL CASE HERE IS

494
00:17:24,078 --> 00:17:25,079
SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

495
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:29,017
A PATIENT ENROLLS IN A CLINICAL

496
00:17:29,017 --> 00:17:31,319
TRIAL AND FORTUNATELY BENEFIT

497
00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:31,986
FROM THE DEVICE.

498
00:17:31,986 --> 00:17:32,954
DURING THE TRIAL THE PATIENT IS

499
00:17:32,954 --> 00:17:34,188
WELL TAKEN CARE OF BY THE

500
00:17:34,188 --> 00:17:35,390
CLINICAL TEAM, BUT AFTER THE

501
00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:37,792
TRIAL ENDS, MANY PATIENTS WHO

502
00:17:37,792 --> 00:17:38,826
EXPERIENCE BENEFIT FROM THE

503
00:17:38,826 --> 00:17:40,395
DEVICE WANT TO KEEP IT.

504
00:17:40,395 --> 00:17:42,930
AFTER ALL, MOST HAVE BEEN

505
00:17:42,930 --> 00:17:43,931
TREATMENT-RESISTANT TO EXISTING

506
00:17:43,931 --> 00:17:45,133
OPTIONS, MEANING THAT IF THIS

507
00:17:45,133 --> 00:17:46,667
DEVICE WORKS, THIS IS THE ONE

508
00:17:46,667 --> 00:17:49,303
THING THAT WORK FOR THEM.

509
00:17:49,303 --> 00:17:50,738
PATIENTS, HOWEVER, WHO KEEP AN

510
00:17:50,738 --> 00:17:52,040
IMPLANT MAY NEED CERTAIN TYPES

511
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,142
OF CARE TO MAINTAIN THEIR

512
00:17:54,142 --> 00:17:55,977
BENEFITS AND MINIMIZE THEIR

513
00:17:55,977 --> 00:17:57,612
RISKS RELATED TO THE IMPLANT.

514
00:17:57,612 --> 00:18:00,148
THIS COULD RANGE FROM FOLLOW-UP

515
00:18:00,148 --> 00:18:02,650
VISITS TO ADJUST STIMULATION

516
00:18:02,650 --> 00:18:04,419
SETTINGS, BATTERY REPLACEMENT,

517
00:18:04,419 --> 00:18:05,820
DEVICE REPAIR OR EVEN REMOVAL.

518
00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:07,155
IN MANY CASES, HOWEVER, IN THE

519
00:18:07,155 --> 00:18:08,689
U.S. AND SEVERAL OTHER

520
00:18:08,689 --> 00:18:09,991
COUNTRIES, THERE'S NOT ALWAYS A

521
00:18:09,991 --> 00:18:14,829
CLEAR PATHWAY TO RECEIVE THIS

522
00:18:14,829 --> 00:18:15,029
CARE.

523
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:17,698
FOR EXAMPLE, INSURANCE MAY OFTEN

524
00:18:17,698 --> 00:18:18,866
DENY COVERAGE FOR THE MOST

525
00:18:18,866 --> 00:18:23,237
EXPERIMENTAL TYPES OF IMPLANTS.

526
00:18:23,237 --> 00:18:24,906
THERE EXIST A POTENTIAL GAP IN

527
00:18:24,906 --> 00:18:26,140
PATIENTS' ACCESS TO CLINICAL

528
00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:29,143
CARE THEY NEED RELATED TO THEIR

529
00:18:29,143 --> 00:18:30,678
DEVICE, THEIR RESEARCH

530
00:18:30,678 --> 00:18:31,012
PARTICIPATION.

531
00:18:31,012 --> 00:18:33,114
AND COMMONLY, THE AT RISK PERIOD

532
00:18:33,114 --> 00:18:35,817
FOR THESE GAPS IN CARE IS

533
00:18:35,817 --> 00:18:38,653
BETWEEN WHEN A PATIENT ROLLS OUT

534
00:18:38,653 --> 00:18:40,221
OF THE TRIAL AND WHEN THE DEVICE

535
00:18:40,221 --> 00:18:44,258
IS FDA APPROVE AND PRESUMABLY

536
00:18:44,258 --> 00:18:46,461
INSURED BY -- COVERED BY

537
00:18:46,461 --> 00:18:46,794
INSURANCE.

538
00:18:46,794 --> 00:18:48,229
AND THIS PERIOD MAY LAST A

539
00:18:48,229 --> 00:18:50,098
NUMBER OF YEARS.

540
00:18:50,098 --> 00:18:52,400
BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHER CASES

541
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,670
THAT MAY ACTUALLY EXPAND FOR THE

542
00:18:55,670 --> 00:18:56,204
PATIENT'S LIFETIME.

543
00:18:56,204 --> 00:18:57,538
FOR EXAMPLE, SOME DEVICES NEVER

544
00:18:57,538 --> 00:18:59,841
GET FDA APPROVAL, OR IN SOME

545
00:18:59,841 --> 00:19:02,043
CASES, EVEN IF A DEVICE IS FDA

546
00:19:02,043 --> 00:19:03,311
APPROVED, THE COMPANY GOES OUT

547
00:19:03,311 --> 00:19:06,214
OF BUSINESS OR IT'S A

548
00:19:06,214 --> 00:19:07,615
COMMERCIALLY UNVIABLE PRODUCT OR

549
00:19:07,615 --> 00:19:08,282
SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS AND

550
00:19:08,282 --> 00:19:09,484
PATIENTS MAY LOSE ACCESS TO THE

551
00:19:09,484 --> 00:19:11,986
CARE THAT THEY NEED.

552
00:19:11,986 --> 00:19:14,589
SO WHAT ARE THE NEEDS THAT

553
00:19:14,589 --> 00:19:15,723
PATIENTS HAVE AFTER THESE TYPES

554
00:19:15,723 --> 00:19:17,658
OF TRIALS?

555
00:19:17,658 --> 00:19:21,429
SO IT ALL STARTS WITH AN OBVIOUS

556
00:19:21,429 --> 00:19:23,064
ONE THAT IS TO ANTICIPATE WHAT A

557
00:19:23,064 --> 00:19:24,599
PATIENT NEEDS AFTER THE TRIAL

558
00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:27,668
ENDS AND PLAN FOR IT.

559
00:19:27,668 --> 00:19:30,505
SEVERAL PLANS MAY REQUIRE

560
00:19:30,505 --> 00:19:32,673
ADVANCE PLANNING, FOR EXAMPLE,

561
00:19:32,673 --> 00:19:35,209
NEGOTIATING BETWEEN DIFFERENT

562
00:19:35,209 --> 00:19:35,543
STAKEHOLDERS.

563
00:19:35,543 --> 00:19:37,945
BUT WE UNFORTUNATELY STILL SEE

564
00:19:37,945 --> 00:19:39,514
HAPPEN THAT TRIALS WITH

565
00:19:39,514 --> 00:19:40,715
IMPLANTED DEVICES ARE STARTED

566
00:19:40,715 --> 00:19:42,016
BEFORE THE TEAM HAS REALLY

567
00:19:42,016 --> 00:19:43,551
THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER

568
00:19:43,551 --> 00:19:46,988
THE TRIAL ENDS, OR THEY DECIDE

569
00:19:46,988 --> 00:19:49,590
TO RELY ON AD HOC

570
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:50,892
DECISION-MAKING, MEANING THAT

571
00:19:50,892 --> 00:19:52,560
THEY'LL DECIDE WHAT TO DO WHEN

572
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,396
IT HAPPENS, WHICH CAUSES ANXIETY

573
00:19:55,396 --> 00:19:57,732
FOR PATIENTS.

574
00:19:57,732 --> 00:19:59,133
SO AFTER HEARING ABOUT PATIENTS

575
00:19:59,133 --> 00:20:01,669
WHO LOST ACCESS TO THEIR

576
00:20:01,669 --> 00:20:03,738
EXPERIMENTAL IMPLANTS, SOME

577
00:20:03,738 --> 00:20:05,606
PARTICIPANTS ARE NOW INDICATING

578
00:20:05,606 --> 00:20:06,641
THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO

579
00:20:06,641 --> 00:20:08,342
PARTICIPATE IN THESE TRIALS

580
00:20:08,342 --> 00:20:10,211
UNLESS SUFFICIENT PLAN IS IN

581
00:20:10,211 --> 00:20:13,948
PLACE FOR POST-TRIAL CARE.

582
00:20:13,948 --> 00:20:15,683
SO THIS IS PROBABLY THE LEAST

583
00:20:15,683 --> 00:20:19,220
CONTROVERSIAL THING I'LL SAY

584
00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:20,188
TODAY, WHICH IS WE SHOULD MAKE

585
00:20:20,188 --> 00:20:22,156
SURE THAT PARTICIPANTS KNOW THEY

586
00:20:22,156 --> 00:20:23,591
MIGHT NEED CARE AFTER THE TRIAL

587
00:20:23,591 --> 00:20:24,792
ENDS RELATED TO THEIR IMPLANT

588
00:20:24,792 --> 00:20:26,794
AND WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT IN

589
00:20:26,794 --> 00:20:30,164
TERMS OF ACCESS TO THIS CARE.

590
00:20:30,164 --> 00:20:31,499
SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE THIS

591
00:20:31,499 --> 00:20:32,366
INFORMATION INTO ACCOUNT WHEN

592
00:20:32,366 --> 00:20:33,434
THEY MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT

593
00:20:33,434 --> 00:20:35,770
WHETHER OR NOT TO ENROLL IN A

594
00:20:35,770 --> 00:20:36,170
TRIAL.

595
00:20:36,170 --> 00:20:39,140
WE DON'T HAVE DATA ON THE

596
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:40,675
PROPORTION OF PATIENTS WHO ARE

597
00:20:40,675 --> 00:20:43,511
TOLD THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION,

598
00:20:43,511 --> 00:20:46,581
BUT IT SEEMS LIKE AT LEAST BASED

599
00:20:46,581 --> 00:20:48,649
ON SMALL QUALITATIVE STUDIES

600
00:20:48,649 --> 00:20:50,117
THERE'S AT LEAST A SIGNIFICANT

601
00:20:50,117 --> 00:20:51,219
PROPORTION OF PATIENTS THAT

602
00:20:51,219 --> 00:20:52,720
DON'T RECALL TALKING ABOUT THIS.

603
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,155
OF COURSE, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT

604
00:20:54,155 --> 00:20:56,457
DIDN'T HAPPEN, BUT AT LEAST IT

605
00:20:56,457 --> 00:20:57,758
SUGGESTS THAT THERE'S AN

606
00:20:57,758 --> 00:20:59,093
OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE OUR

607
00:20:59,093 --> 00:21:00,061
INFORMED CON SEBILITY PROCESS

608
00:21:00,061 --> 00:21:02,163
RELATED TO THESE -- CONSENT

609
00:21:02,163 --> 00:21:03,364
PROCESS RELATED TO THESE

610
00:21:03,364 --> 00:21:04,565
QUESTIONS.

611
00:21:04,565 --> 00:21:04,799
OKAY.

612
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:06,100
SO WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT

613
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:08,069
THE FIRST CASE, PATIENTS WHO ARE

614
00:21:08,069 --> 00:21:09,570
EXPERIENCING SIGNIFICANT

615
00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:10,705
CLINICAL BENEFITS MAY WANT TO

616
00:21:10,705 --> 00:21:12,139
KEEP THE DEVICES.

617
00:21:12,139 --> 00:21:13,341
AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE ANY

618
00:21:13,341 --> 00:21:15,376
ABSOLUTE OR RELATIVE NUMBERS

619
00:21:15,376 --> 00:21:15,643
HERE.

620
00:21:15,643 --> 00:21:17,678
WE JUST HAVE A SMALL, A COUPLE

621
00:21:17,678 --> 00:21:19,880
OF SMALL QUALITATIVE STUDIES IN

622
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,515
WHICH ALMOST ALL PATIENTS WHO

623
00:21:21,515 --> 00:21:22,617
EXPERIENCE SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT

624
00:21:22,617 --> 00:21:24,285
FIT WANTED TO KEEP THE DEVICE,

625
00:21:24,285 --> 00:21:25,853
BUT WE NEED MORE INFORMATION TO

626
00:21:25,853 --> 00:21:28,155
KNOW WHICH PROPORTION THIS IS.

627
00:21:28,155 --> 00:21:29,624
THERE IS, HOWEVER, ONE OTHER

628
00:21:29,624 --> 00:21:32,260
GROUP WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT

629
00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:34,462
YET, AND THAT IS IN SOME CASES

630
00:21:34,462 --> 00:21:36,097
THE RISK SHES EVEN IF THE DEVICE

631
00:21:36,097 --> 00:21:38,199
IS NOT WORKING, THE RISKS OF

632
00:21:38,199 --> 00:21:40,167
TAKING IT OUT ARE HIGHER THAN

633
00:21:40,167 --> 00:21:42,570
LEAVING IT IN PLACE BECAUSE IT

634
00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:43,304
REQUIRES ADDITIONAL BRAIN

635
00:21:43,304 --> 00:21:44,305
SURGERY AND SO ON.

636
00:21:44,305 --> 00:21:45,973
SO IN THOSE CASES, PATIENTS ALSO

637
00:21:45,973 --> 00:21:49,910
HAVE A CLINICAL INTEREST TO KEEP

638
00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:51,979
THE DEVICE.

639
00:21:51,979 --> 00:21:54,382
HOWEVER, ONCE THEY HAVE AN

640
00:21:54,382 --> 00:21:55,283
IMPLANTED, PATIENTS NEED A

641
00:21:55,283 --> 00:21:57,418
NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS,

642
00:21:57,418 --> 00:21:58,853
INCLUDING POTENTIAL EMERGENCY

643
00:21:58,853 --> 00:22:00,087
CARE FOR COMPLICATIONS RELATED

644
00:22:00,087 --> 00:22:03,024
TO THE DEVICE, AS WELL AS

645
00:22:03,024 --> 00:22:04,892
ROUTINE FOLLOW-UP CARE AND

646
00:22:04,892 --> 00:22:06,294
DEVICE SUPPORT HAD AND REPAIR.

647
00:22:06,294 --> 00:22:08,696
I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE OF

648
00:22:08,696 --> 00:22:09,497
THINGS HERE.

649
00:22:09,497 --> 00:22:12,867
9 ACCESS TO SPECIALIZED IT

650
00:22:12,867 --> 00:22:13,200
CLINICIANS.

651
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,835
IN SOME CASES, THESE DEVICES ARE

652
00:22:14,835 --> 00:22:18,205
SO NEW AND UNIQUE THAT IF A

653
00:22:18,205 --> 00:22:20,875
PATIENT, FOR EXAMPLE, NEEDS

654
00:22:20,875 --> 00:22:21,542
STIMULATION SECRETARIES CHANGED

655
00:22:21,542 --> 00:22:23,711
OR NEEDS A LEAD REPLACED OR SOME

656
00:22:23,711 --> 00:22:25,346
SORT OF SURGERY, IT'S REALLY

657
00:22:25,346 --> 00:22:27,214
ONLY THE CLINICAL TEAM, THE

658
00:22:27,214 --> 00:22:28,749
RESEARCH TEAM THAT PUT IT IN

659
00:22:28,749 --> 00:22:30,618
THAT'S WILLING TO PROVIDE

660
00:22:30,618 --> 00:22:31,719
THIS -- WILLING AND SPECIALIZED

661
00:22:31,719 --> 00:22:33,888
ENOUGH TO PROVIDE THIS CARE.

662
00:22:33,888 --> 00:22:36,290
SO THESE PATIENTS CAN BE HIGHLY

663
00:22:36,290 --> 00:22:38,592
DEPENDENT ON THE CLINICAL

664
00:22:38,592 --> 00:22:39,593
RESEARCH TEAM IN ORDER TO

665
00:22:39,593 --> 00:22:42,330
RECEIVE THE POST-TRIAL CARE.

666
00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:44,065
ANOTHER THING THAT'S GOING ON

667
00:22:44,065 --> 00:22:45,900
HERE RELATES TO HARDWARE AND

668
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:47,268
SOFTWARE UPDATES.

669
00:22:47,268 --> 00:22:49,403
SO SOME OF THESE DEVICES ARE

670
00:22:49,403 --> 00:22:51,839
KIND OF LIKE APPLE PHONES,

671
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:54,108
MEANING THAT THEY ARE NOT

672
00:22:54,108 --> 00:22:55,242
COMPATIBLE WITH EXISTING

673
00:22:55,242 --> 00:22:58,779
COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE HARDWARE

674
00:22:58,779 --> 00:23:00,114
PIECES, SO THEY MIGHT HAVE

675
00:23:00,114 --> 00:23:01,415
UNIQUE LEADS, THEY MIGHT HAVE

676
00:23:01,415 --> 00:23:03,017
UNIQUE BATTERIES, THEY MIGHT

677
00:23:03,017 --> 00:23:04,352
HAVE UNIQUE ALL SORTS OF

678
00:23:04,352 --> 00:23:05,886
COMPONENTS AND SOFTWARE, WHICH

679
00:23:05,886 --> 00:23:08,389
AGAIN MAKES THESE PATIENTS

680
00:23:08,389 --> 00:23:09,623
UNIQUELY DEPENDENT ON IN THIS

681
00:23:09,623 --> 00:23:12,026
CASE THE COMPANY TO CONTINUE TO

682
00:23:12,026 --> 00:23:14,962
SUPPORT THIS HARDWARE OR

683
00:23:14,962 --> 00:23:17,365
SOFTWARE.

684
00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:20,568
OF COURSE, CLINICAL TEAMS MAY

685
00:23:20,568 --> 00:23:24,071
RETIRE OR CHANGE RESEARCH FOCUS,

686
00:23:24,071 --> 00:23:26,073
DEVICE COMPANIES, ESPECIALLY IF

687
00:23:26,073 --> 00:23:28,476
IT'S STARTUPS, THEY MIGHT FOLD,

688
00:23:28,476 --> 00:23:31,979
A PRODUCT MIGHT BE COMMERCIALLY

689
00:23:31,979 --> 00:23:32,947
UNVIABLE, SO THINGS CAN HAPPEN

690
00:23:32,947 --> 00:23:34,715
THERE, AND THIS IS OFTEN WHERE

691
00:23:34,715 --> 00:23:38,686
WE'VE SEEN PROBLEMS OCCUR.

692
00:23:38,686 --> 00:23:41,622
OF THE THINGS ON THIS LIST, ONLY

693
00:23:41,622 --> 00:23:43,791
EMERGENCY CARE FOR COMPLICATIONS

694
00:23:43,791 --> 00:23:45,793
OF THE DEVICE IS USUALLY

695
00:23:45,793 --> 00:23:48,963
PROVIDED BY THE PATIENT'S

696
00:23:48,963 --> 00:23:49,830
INSURANCE TION AS WELL AS

697
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:53,033
FOLLOW-UP VISITS ARE USUALLY

698
00:23:53,033 --> 00:23:55,436
COVERED BY INSURANCE FOR

699
00:23:55,436 --> 00:23:57,405
PATIENTS, IF THIS WAS COVERED

700
00:23:57,405 --> 00:23:58,606
FOR THE CLINICAL INDICATION THEY

701
00:23:58,606 --> 00:23:59,607
HAVE TO START WITH.

702
00:23:59,607 --> 00:24:01,041
THE OTHER THINGS ARE NOT

703
00:24:01,041 --> 00:24:02,576
NECESSARILY STRUCTURALLY COVERED

704
00:24:02,576 --> 00:24:04,545
BY INSURANCE OR ANY OF THE OTHER

705
00:24:04,545 --> 00:24:07,948
STAKEHOLDERS INVOLVED IN THESE

706
00:24:07,948 --> 00:24:09,383
TRIALS.

707
00:24:09,383 --> 00:24:09,817
OKAY.

708
00:24:09,817 --> 00:24:10,985
SO WE'VE LEARNED FROM PATIENTS

709
00:24:10,985 --> 00:24:12,753
THAT THERE WAS SOME OTHER THINGS

710
00:24:12,753 --> 00:24:14,822
THEY MAY NEED OR AT LEAST WOULD

711
00:24:14,822 --> 00:24:16,891
BENEFIT THEM AFTER A TRIAL ENDS.

712
00:24:16,891 --> 00:24:18,993
FOR EXAMPLE, THE HEALTHCARE

713
00:24:18,993 --> 00:24:22,830
SYSTEM CAN BE QUITE COMPLICATED.

714
00:24:22,830 --> 00:24:24,031
ASSISTANCE IN COORDINATING CARE

715
00:24:24,031 --> 00:24:25,766
CAN HELP THEM, FOR EXAMPLE, GET

716
00:24:25,766 --> 00:24:27,067
THE THINGS COVERED THAT WOULD BE

717
00:24:27,067 --> 00:24:29,036
COVERED FOR THEM IF THEY

718
00:24:29,036 --> 00:24:30,204
PROVIDED NECESSARY PAPERWORK AND

719
00:24:30,204 --> 00:24:32,673
SO ON.

720
00:24:32,673 --> 00:24:34,208
THERE'S ALSO THE FACT THAT SOME

721
00:24:34,208 --> 00:24:35,543
OF THESE DEVICES HAVE

722
00:24:35,543 --> 00:24:37,845
IMPLICATIONS FOR OTHER TYPES OF

723
00:24:37,845 --> 00:24:38,045
CARE.

724
00:24:38,045 --> 00:24:40,815
FOR EXAMPLE, SOME IMPLANTS ARE

725
00:24:40,815 --> 00:24:42,216
COMPATIBLE WITH MRI.

726
00:24:42,216 --> 00:24:45,186
OTHER ONES ARE NOT, FOR CLINICAL

727
00:24:45,186 --> 00:24:47,688
PROVIDER IT'S USEFUL TO TELL THE

728
00:24:47,688 --> 00:24:47,988
DIFFERENCE.

729
00:24:47,988 --> 00:24:50,891
SO THERE'S THIS NEED FOR

730
00:24:50,891 --> 00:24:51,525
CLINICALLY RELEVANT INFORMATION

731
00:24:51,525 --> 00:24:53,327
ABOUT THE DEVICE TO BE

732
00:24:53,327 --> 00:24:54,695
ACCESSIBLE FOR CLINICIANS

733
00:24:54,695 --> 00:24:56,163
OUTSIDE THE TEAM AND BECAUSE

734
00:24:56,163 --> 00:24:57,364
RESEARCH RECORDS ARE NOT

735
00:24:57,364 --> 00:24:59,333
NECESSARILY PUT INTO A MEDICAL

736
00:24:59,333 --> 00:25:01,502
RECORD, THIS IS NOT APPLES THE

737
00:25:01,502 --> 00:25:03,037
CASE CURRENTLY.

738
00:25:03,037 --> 00:25:04,805
-- THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE

739
00:25:04,805 --> 00:25:05,072
CURRENTLY.

740
00:25:05,072 --> 00:25:06,774
I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE

741
00:25:06,774 --> 00:25:08,209
LAST POINT HERE, WHICH IS MENTAL

742
00:25:08,209 --> 00:25:11,812
HEALTH SERVICES RELATED TO TRIAL

743
00:25:11,812 --> 00:25:12,813
PARTICIPATION.

744
00:25:12,813 --> 00:25:14,482
SO WE KNOW THAT PARTICIPATING IN

745
00:25:14,482 --> 00:25:17,852
THESE TRIALS AND THEN NOT

746
00:25:17,852 --> 00:25:19,286
BENEFITING OR DISCONTINUING TO

747
00:25:19,286 --> 00:25:22,122
BENEFIT FROM A DEVICE OR EVEN IN

748
00:25:22,122 --> 00:25:26,627
CERTAIN NONTHERAPEUTIC TRIALS

749
00:25:26,627 --> 00:25:28,362
ENGAGEMENT IN THE RESEARCH CAN

750
00:25:28,362 --> 00:25:30,764
HAVE A LARGE EMOTIONAL IMPACT

751
00:25:30,764 --> 00:25:32,967
AND LARGE IMPACT ON THE MENTAL

752
00:25:32,967 --> 00:25:34,068
WELL-BEING OF PATIENTS, AND WE

753
00:25:34,068 --> 00:25:36,470
THINK THAT ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY

754
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:38,339
TRANSITION OUT OF A TRIAL OR

755
00:25:38,339 --> 00:25:43,043
TRANSITION OUT OF SOMETHING, A

756
00:25:43,043 --> 00:25:47,548
DEVICE, THEY MAY NOT BENEFIT

757
00:25:47,548 --> 00:25:48,415
FROM MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

758
00:25:48,415 --> 00:25:50,050
RELATED TO THEIR TRIAL

759
00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:51,785
PARTICIPATION, SO DON'T GET ME

760
00:25:51,785 --> 00:25:55,422
LONG, THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH

761
00:25:55,422 --> 00:25:56,957
THINGS OUT THERE THAT ARE AMAZE

762
00:25:56,957 --> 00:25:58,058
AND GO CAN DO EVERYTHING THEY

763
00:25:58,058 --> 00:26:00,361
CAN TO HELP THEIR PATIENTS OUT

764
00:26:00,361 --> 00:26:02,096
THERE AFTER THE TRIAL, A LOT OF

765
00:26:02,096 --> 00:26:02,329
TEAMS.

766
00:26:02,329 --> 00:26:03,163
BUT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT

767
00:26:03,163 --> 00:26:04,265
THERE ARE LIMITATIONS IN TERMS

768
00:26:04,265 --> 00:26:06,267
OF MISSION AND RESOURCES THAT

769
00:26:06,267 --> 00:26:07,334
THE ORGANIZATIONS WHO ARE

770
00:26:07,334 --> 00:26:09,403
INVOLVED IN THIS RESEARCH HAVE.

771
00:26:09,403 --> 00:26:12,473
FOR EXAMPLE, NIH HAS NO LEGAL

772
00:26:12,473 --> 00:26:13,908
AUTHORITY TO TRANSFER FUNDS ONCE

773
00:26:13,908 --> 00:26:17,945
A TRIAL IS NO LONGER ACTIVE.

774
00:26:17,945 --> 00:26:19,280
CMS IS BOUND BY COVERING THE

775
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,948
TYPES OF CARE THAT ARE INDICATED

776
00:26:20,948 --> 00:26:22,883
BY LAW.

777
00:26:22,883 --> 00:26:24,418
DEVICE COMPANIES MAY SIMPLY BE

778
00:26:24,418 --> 00:26:27,788
UNABLE TO CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN A

779
00:26:27,788 --> 00:26:28,489
VIABLE PRODUCT.

780
00:26:28,489 --> 00:26:30,324
AS A RESULT, MOST OF THE CURRENT

781
00:26:30,324 --> 00:26:31,959
PLANS ARE KIND OF LIKE A

782
00:26:31,959 --> 00:26:34,361
PATCHWORK OF CONDITIONAL

783
00:26:34,361 --> 00:26:35,663
ASSURANCES.

784
00:26:35,663 --> 00:26:38,098
IT DOESN'T HELP THAT WITHIN AND

785
00:26:38,098 --> 00:26:39,300
BETWEEN INVOLVED RESEARCH

786
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:40,935
INSTITUTIONS, FUNDERS, DEVICE

787
00:26:40,935 --> 00:26:42,136
MANUFACTURERS, INSURANCING

788
00:26:42,136 --> 00:26:44,438
RESEARCHERS, PATIENTS AND

789
00:26:44,438 --> 00:26:46,073
CAREGIVERS, THERE MAY BE

790
00:26:46,073 --> 00:26:47,374
DISAGREEMENT ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF

791
00:26:47,374 --> 00:26:51,312
PLAN IS SUFFICIENT OR

792
00:26:51,312 --> 00:26:52,646
APPROPRIATE AND HOW

793
00:26:52,646 --> 00:26:55,282
RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE DIVIDE.

794
00:26:55,282 --> 00:26:56,917
NOW, OF COURSE THE EXISTENCE OF

795
00:26:56,917 --> 00:26:59,219
AN UNMET CLINICAL NEED DOESN'T

796
00:26:59,219 --> 00:27:01,288
IMPLY A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY TO

797
00:27:01,288 --> 00:27:02,489
PROVIDE CARE.

798
00:27:02,489 --> 00:27:05,125
IN FACT, MANY CLINICAL NEEDS ARE

799
00:27:05,125 --> 00:27:06,894
UNFORTUNATELY UNMET IN THIS

800
00:27:06,894 --> 00:27:08,629
COUNTRY, WHICH LEADS US TO A

801
00:27:08,629 --> 00:27:09,830
NORMATIVE QUESTION, THAT IS,

802
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:11,999
WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES, IF ANY,

803
00:27:11,999 --> 00:27:13,100
DO PROFESSIONAL STAKEHOLDERS

804
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:14,635
HAVE TO FACILITATE OR PROVIDE

805
00:27:14,635 --> 00:27:16,637
THIS CARE?

806
00:27:16,637 --> 00:27:19,373
AND IT'S POSSIBLE I'LL COME OUT

807
00:27:19,373 --> 00:27:20,474
SOMEWHERE DIFFERENT THAN JOE

808
00:27:20,474 --> 00:27:21,442
HERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE SAID

809
00:27:21,442 --> 00:27:24,244
LAST WEEK, BUT BY WAY OF

810
00:27:24,244 --> 00:27:25,412
REMINDER IN THAT THERE ARE

811
00:27:25,412 --> 00:27:27,047
LARGER DEBATES ABOUT POST TRIAL

812
00:27:27,047 --> 00:27:28,482
CARE, MOST OF WHICH HAVE FOCUSED

813
00:27:28,482 --> 00:27:30,451
ON DRUGS, A LOT OF WHICH HAVE

814
00:27:30,451 --> 00:27:32,086
FOCUSED ON HIV AND A LOT OF

815
00:27:32,086 --> 00:27:34,088
WHICH HAS FOCUSED ON THE CONTEXT

816
00:27:34,088 --> 00:27:35,322
OF INTERNATIONAL RESEARCH.

817
00:27:35,322 --> 00:27:37,458
THERE ARE NO REGULATORY OR LEGAL

818
00:27:37,458 --> 00:27:39,460
REQUIREMENTS TO PROVIDE THIS

819
00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:41,095
CARE, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN

820
00:27:41,095 --> 00:27:42,630
LONG-STANDING ETHICAL DEBATES

821
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:48,002
ABOUT WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES WE

822
00:27:48,002 --> 00:27:48,435
HAVE.

823
00:27:48,435 --> 00:27:49,970
SO HERE ARE WHAT I TAKE TO BE

824
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:53,273
THE MAIN ARGUMENTS FOR SOME

825
00:27:53,273 --> 00:27:54,041
POST-TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES.

826
00:27:54,041 --> 00:27:56,944
SO THIS INCLUDES FIRST, IF

827
00:27:56,944 --> 00:27:58,312
YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL

828
00:27:58,312 --> 00:27:59,847
STAKEHOLDER SNROSTLED A TRIAL

829
00:27:59,847 --> 00:28:01,248
THAT'S -- INVOLVED IN A TRIAL

830
00:28:01,248 --> 00:28:02,916
THAT'S IMPLANTING AN

831
00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:03,684
EXPERIMENTAL DEVICE IN

832
00:28:03,684 --> 00:28:04,885
SOMEBODY'S BRAIN, YOU MAY HAVE

833
00:28:04,885 --> 00:28:06,420
SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP

834
00:28:06,420 --> 00:28:08,589
THESE PATIENTS PREVENT OR

835
00:28:08,589 --> 00:28:09,590
AMELIORATE ANY HARMS THAT MAY

836
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:10,658
OCCUR TO THEM AS A CONSEQUENCE

837
00:28:10,658 --> 00:28:13,527
OF THIS RESEARCH PARTICIPATION.

838
00:28:13,527 --> 00:28:17,898
WE CALL THIS NONMALEFICENCE.

839
00:28:17,898 --> 00:28:19,667
SIMILARLY, YOU MAY HAVE SOME

840
00:28:19,667 --> 00:28:23,137
RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP ADVANCE

841
00:28:23,137 --> 00:28:28,542
PATIENTS' INTERESTS, B HE

842
00:28:28,542 --> 00:28:29,843
NEFICENCE, SOME EXPRESS THIS

843
00:28:29,843 --> 00:28:30,978
ARGUMENT BY SAYING IT WOULD BE

844
00:28:30,978 --> 00:28:33,213
KIND OF CRUEL TO GIVE A GUY SO

845
00:28:33,213 --> 00:28:34,915
MUCH OF HIS LIFE BACK AND THEN

846
00:28:34,915 --> 00:28:36,650
SNATCH IT AWAY, JUST BECAUSE OF

847
00:28:36,650 --> 00:28:38,652
A FEW PENNIES, ALTHOUGH IT'S

848
00:28:38,652 --> 00:28:41,588
MORE THAN A FEW PENNIES.

849
00:28:41,588 --> 00:28:44,858
IN GENERAL, I THINK

850
00:28:44,858 --> 00:28:46,627
NONMALEFICENCE IS ONE OF THE

851
00:28:46,627 --> 00:28:48,362
STRONGEST ARGUMENTS FOR

852
00:28:48,362 --> 00:28:49,697
POST-TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES.

853
00:28:49,697 --> 00:28:50,230
OKAY.

854
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:53,834
SECOND, SOME ARGUE THAT WE HAVE

855
00:28:53,834 --> 00:28:54,635
POST-TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES

856
00:28:54,635 --> 00:28:56,704
GARNERED IN RECIPROCITY, THAT

857
00:28:56,704 --> 00:28:58,872
IS, WE SHOULD PROVIDE POST-TRIAL

858
00:28:58,872 --> 00:28:59,973
CARE IN RETURN FOR THE BURDENS

859
00:28:59,973 --> 00:29:02,743
AND RISKS THE PATIENT UNDERWENT

860
00:29:02,743 --> 00:29:05,012
TO ADVANCE THE SCIENCE.

861
00:29:05,012 --> 00:29:06,747
SO FOR EXAMPLE, THIS PARTICIPANT

862
00:29:06,747 --> 00:29:08,515
EXPRESSES THAT VIEW THAT IS IT

863
00:29:08,515 --> 00:29:11,452
FELT LIKE HEY, LOOK, I LIKE YOUR

864
00:29:11,452 --> 00:29:12,986
I AM PREGNANTINGS IN MY

865
00:29:12,986 --> 00:29:13,987
BRAIRNTION I'M WALKING AROUND

866
00:29:13,987 --> 00:29:16,490
WITH THIS -- MY BRAIN, I'M

867
00:29:16,490 --> 00:29:17,591
WALKING AROUND WITH THIS, YOU

868
00:29:17,591 --> 00:29:18,592
HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO, YOU

869
00:29:18,592 --> 00:29:21,195
KNOW, LOOK AFTER ME.

870
00:29:21,195 --> 00:29:21,628
OKAY.

871
00:29:21,628 --> 00:29:25,799
NOW, SOME PEOPLE ARGUE FOR

872
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:26,366
POST-TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES

873
00:29:26,366 --> 00:29:27,334
RESPECT FOR PERSONS WRRKS THE

874
00:29:27,334 --> 00:29:29,002
CONCERN IS THAT NOT PROVIDING

875
00:29:29,002 --> 00:29:30,504
THIS TYPE OF CARE COULD BE

876
00:29:30,504 --> 00:29:32,506
CONSTRUED AS USING A PARTICIPANT

877
00:29:32,506 --> 00:29:34,208
AS A MEANS TOWARDS AN END.

878
00:29:34,208 --> 00:29:36,009
AND FINALLY, SOME HAVE ARGUED

879
00:29:36,009 --> 00:29:39,246
THAT THERE ARE SOME

880
00:29:39,246 --> 00:29:40,581
RESPONSIBILITIES GROUNDED IN THE

881
00:29:40,581 --> 00:29:41,582
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE

882
00:29:41,582 --> 00:29:45,419
RESEARCHER AND THE PARTICIPANT

883
00:29:45,419 --> 00:29:46,820
THAT CREATES SOME SORT OF DUTIES

884
00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:48,355
EVEN AFTER A TRIAL ENDS,

885
00:29:48,355 --> 00:29:50,424
REFERRED TO AS A PARTIAL

886
00:29:50,424 --> 00:29:52,659
ENTRUSTMENT RELATIONSHIP.

887
00:29:52,659 --> 00:29:54,628
BUT THERE ARE ALSO SOME REASONS

888
00:29:54,628 --> 00:29:55,963
TO THINK WHY THESE

889
00:29:55,963 --> 00:29:57,798
RESPONSIBILITIES HAVE LIMITS,

890
00:29:57,798 --> 00:29:59,333
AND THEY PRIMARILY COME DOWN TO

891
00:29:59,333 --> 00:30:01,735
OPPORTUNITY COSTS, TO SUPPORT

892
00:30:01,735 --> 00:30:04,605
POST-TRIAL CARE FOR

893
00:30:04,605 --> 00:30:06,006
PARTICIPANTS, WE MIGHT HAVE TO

894
00:30:06,006 --> 00:30:08,108
FOREGO OTHER THINGS, SUCH AS

895
00:30:08,108 --> 00:30:08,976
IMPLEMENT FURTHER TRIALS TO

896
00:30:08,976 --> 00:30:09,943
BENEFIT THE PATIENT POPULATION

897
00:30:09,943 --> 00:30:11,879
AT LARGE, ASSUMING THAT THIS IS

898
00:30:11,879 --> 00:30:12,846
WHAT THE MONEY WOULD OTHERWISE

899
00:30:12,846 --> 00:30:14,982
BE SPENT ON.

900
00:30:14,982 --> 00:30:17,751
SO AT THE CORE, THERE'S THIS

901
00:30:17,751 --> 00:30:19,453
TENSION BETWEEN THE INTERESTS OF

902
00:30:19,453 --> 00:30:22,856
FORMER PARTICIPANTS AND THE

903
00:30:22,856 --> 00:30:23,857
INTERESTS.

904
00:30:23,857 --> 00:30:25,159
SPEED OF THE RESEARCH AND

905
00:30:25,159 --> 00:30:27,127
ADVANCING THE BEEN FACILITIES OF

906
00:30:27,127 --> 00:30:28,228
THE POPULATION -- AND THE

907
00:30:28,228 --> 00:30:29,296
BENEFITS OF THE POPULATION AT

908
00:30:29,296 --> 00:30:29,496
LARGE.

909
00:30:29,496 --> 00:30:32,166
THIS IS ACTUAL A REALLY FAMILIAR

910
00:30:32,166 --> 00:30:33,367
TENSION AND RESEARCH ETHICS IN

911
00:30:33,367 --> 00:30:35,502
GENERAL, AND I HOPE TO CONVINCE

912
00:30:35,502 --> 00:30:36,904
YOU THAT WHEREVER WE PUT THIS

913
00:30:36,904 --> 00:30:38,205
BALANCE, IT SHOULD GO A LITTLE

914
00:30:38,205 --> 00:30:39,807
BIT MORE TOWARDS THE INTERESTS

915
00:30:39,807 --> 00:30:40,974
OF THE PARTICIPANTS IN THESE

916
00:30:40,974 --> 00:30:43,143
TYPES OF TRIALS.

917
00:30:43,143 --> 00:30:45,445
WITHIN LIMITS.

918
00:30:45,445 --> 00:30:48,515
SO THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF

919
00:30:48,515 --> 00:30:49,516
POST-TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES WITH

920
00:30:49,516 --> 00:30:50,918
SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WE HAVE

921
00:30:50,918 --> 00:30:52,553
SOME RESPONSIBILITIES, THEY HAVE

922
00:30:52,553 --> 00:30:54,087
LIMITS, AND WHATEVER THEY ARE,

923
00:30:54,087 --> 00:30:55,422
THEY'RE SHARED AMONG THE

924
00:30:55,422 --> 00:30:56,723
STAKEHOLDERS WHO PARTICIPATE IN

925
00:30:56,723 --> 00:30:58,559
THESE TRIALS, SONLT JUST THE

926
00:30:58,559 --> 00:30:59,927
RESEARCHER, BUT ALSO THE FUNDER

927
00:30:59,927 --> 00:31:03,664
AND THE COMPANY AND ALL OF THIS.

928
00:31:03,664 --> 00:31:05,532
AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT

929
00:31:05,532 --> 00:31:07,835
JOE SAID, BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME

930
00:31:07,835 --> 00:31:09,002
CHALLENGES IN OPERATIONALIZING

931
00:31:09,002 --> 00:31:10,137
AND SPECIFYING THIS, BECAUSE

932
00:31:10,137 --> 00:31:12,206
THIS IS PRETTY HIGH LEVEL, IT'S

933
00:31:12,206 --> 00:31:14,074
HARD TO KNOW WHAT EXACTLY TO DO

934
00:31:14,074 --> 00:31:15,642
IN A SPECIFIC CASE BASED ON THIS

935
00:31:15,642 --> 00:31:18,478
GUIDANCE, AND SOME GROUPS LIKE

936
00:31:18,478 --> 00:31:20,013
MRCT HAVE WORKED ON THE

937
00:31:20,013 --> 00:31:22,850
SPECIFICATION, BUT THEY TEND TO

938
00:31:22,850 --> 00:31:23,884
PURPOSEFULLY EXCLUDE DEVICES.

939
00:31:23,884 --> 00:31:26,453
AND I DO THINK THAT DEVICES,

940
00:31:26,453 --> 00:31:27,754
ESPECIALLY I AM PLANLTDED

941
00:31:27,754 --> 00:31:29,323
DEVICES, ARE KIND OF A UNIQUE

942
00:31:29,323 --> 00:31:31,091
CASE IN THIS CONTEXT.

943
00:31:31,091 --> 00:31:33,994
SO WHY WOULD I SAY THAT?

944
00:31:33,994 --> 00:31:34,194
OKAY.

945
00:31:34,194 --> 00:31:38,498
SO I THINK IN GENERAL, THE

946
00:31:38,498 --> 00:31:41,034
AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITIES WE

947
00:31:41,034 --> 00:31:43,070
HAVE KIND OF DEPEND ON THE

948
00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:45,038
CONTEXT OF THE TRIAL BECAUSE

949
00:31:45,038 --> 00:31:47,140
THESE ARG THUMENTS WE JUST

950
00:31:47,140 --> 00:31:48,008
DISCUSSED -- ARG THUMENTS WE

951
00:31:48,008 --> 00:31:49,643
JUST DISCUSSED HAVE MORE

952
00:31:49,643 --> 00:31:52,346
WEIGHTED IN CERTAIN CONTEXTS.

953
00:31:52,346 --> 00:31:56,149
FOR EXAMPLE, BENEFICENCE AND

954
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:58,218
NONMALEFICENCE HAVE MUCH MORE

955
00:31:58,218 --> 00:31:59,753
WEIGHT IN THE INTERESTS OF

956
00:31:59,753 --> 00:32:01,088
PATIENTS RECEIVING THIS CARE IS

957
00:32:01,088 --> 00:32:01,321
HIGHER.

958
00:32:01,321 --> 00:32:02,789
IN THE CASE OF NEURAL IMPLANTS I

959
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:04,024
WOULD SAY THESE ARGUMENTS HAVE

960
00:32:04,024 --> 00:32:05,425
QUITE SOME REACH, FIRST BECAUSE

961
00:32:05,425 --> 00:32:07,494
THESE ARE TREATMENT-RESISTANT

962
00:32:07,494 --> 00:32:08,262
PATIENTS WITH SIGNIFICANT

963
00:32:08,262 --> 00:32:11,331
BURDENS OF DISEASE, SO THEIR

964
00:32:11,331 --> 00:32:12,332
BENEFICENCE-BASED CLAIMS CAN BE

965
00:32:12,332 --> 00:32:14,868
QUITE HIGH.

966
00:32:14,868 --> 00:32:17,504
ALSO, NONMALEFICENCE IN THIS

967
00:32:17,504 --> 00:32:18,605
CASE, OBVIOUSLY HAVING A

968
00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:21,875
COMPLICATION RELATED TO A BRAIN

969
00:32:21,875 --> 00:32:24,077
DEVICE CAN HAVE A DETRIMENTAL

970
00:32:24,077 --> 00:32:27,047
IMPACT ON YOUR HEALTH, AND I

971
00:32:27,047 --> 00:32:28,682
THINK DEVICES ARE KIND OF

972
00:32:28,682 --> 00:32:30,017
DIFFERENT THAN PHARMACEUTICALS

973
00:32:30,017 --> 00:32:33,053
IN TERMS OF NONMALEFICENCE IN

974
00:32:33,053 --> 00:32:34,588
THE SENSE THAT FOR DRUGS, IF YOU

975
00:32:34,588 --> 00:32:36,423
KEEP ON USING THEM AFTER THE

976
00:32:36,423 --> 00:32:38,091
TRIAL ENDS, YOU CAN HAVE A

977
00:32:38,091 --> 00:32:41,128
COMPLICATION AND THEN YOU HAVE A

978
00:32:41,128 --> 00:32:41,595
NONMALEFICENCE-BASED

979
00:32:41,595 --> 00:32:43,897
RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF

980
00:32:43,897 --> 00:32:44,097
THAT.

981
00:32:44,097 --> 00:32:46,533
IN THE CASE OF IMPLANTS, YOU CAN

982
00:32:46,533 --> 00:32:48,402
HAVE A COMPLICATION FROM AN I AM

983
00:32:48,402 --> 00:32:50,604
PLABT YOU RECEIVED TWENTY YEARS

984
00:32:50,604 --> 00:32:52,205
AGO -- FROM AN IMPLANT YOU

985
00:32:52,205 --> 00:32:53,440
RECEIVED TWENTY YEARS AGO,

986
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:53,774
RIGHT?

987
00:32:53,774 --> 00:32:56,810
BUT ALSO EX-PLANTING AN IMPLANT

988
00:32:56,810 --> 00:32:57,477
ENTAILS RISKS.

989
00:32:57,477 --> 00:32:59,980
SO IN THE CASE OF IMPLANTS,

990
00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:01,415
NONMALEFICENCE ALSO PROVIDES AN

991
00:33:01,415 --> 00:33:03,850
ARGUMENT FOR KEEPING THE DEVICE,

992
00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:04,918
AS WELL AS PROVIDE MORE WEIGHT

993
00:33:04,918 --> 00:33:09,289
AFTER THE TRIAL ENDS.

994
00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:09,957
OKAY.

995
00:33:09,957 --> 00:33:10,924
RECIPROCITY TENDS TO HAVE MORE

996
00:33:10,924 --> 00:33:12,225
WEIGHT FOR TRIALS WITH HIGHER

997
00:33:12,225 --> 00:33:14,428
RISKS AND BURDENS, AGAIN, I TOOK

998
00:33:14,428 --> 00:33:15,595
THIS TO BE THE CASE.

999
00:33:15,595 --> 00:33:18,732
SOME OF THESE ESPECIALLY BC I

1000
00:33:18,732 --> 00:33:20,267
TRIALS, THEY INVOLVE NOT JUST

1001
00:33:20,267 --> 00:33:22,336
BRAIN SURGERY BUT ONE OR TWO

1002
00:33:22,336 --> 00:33:23,770
YEARS OF COMING INTO THE CLINIC

1003
00:33:23,770 --> 00:33:25,305
TO TRAIN WITH THE DEVICE FOR

1004
00:33:25,305 --> 00:33:26,940
MANY HOURS A WEEK.

1005
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:30,210
THESE ARE LIKE REALLY

1006
00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:31,311
SIGNIFICANT BURDENS OF THE

1007
00:33:31,311 --> 00:33:35,382
TRIAL, SO TO SAY.

1008
00:33:35,382 --> 00:33:37,217
RESPECT FOR PERSONS, MORE WEIGHT

1009
00:33:37,217 --> 00:33:38,352
IF PATIENTS LACK ALTHOUGH

1010
00:33:38,352 --> 00:33:39,519
TIFERS, AGAIN, THESE ARE

1011
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:40,787
TREATMENT VISITS IN PATIENTS.

1012
00:33:40,787 --> 00:33:42,489
AND THE RELATIONSHIP-BASED

1013
00:33:42,489 --> 00:33:43,690
ARGUMENTS HAVE MORE WEIGHT FOR

1014
00:33:43,690 --> 00:33:44,891
TRIALS, AGAIN, WITH HIGH RISK

1015
00:33:44,891 --> 00:33:47,761
AND BURDENS, MORE DEPENDENCY AND

1016
00:33:47,761 --> 00:33:48,595
STRONG RELATIONSHIPS.

1017
00:33:48,595 --> 00:33:51,498
SO WHAT I'M SAYING HERE IS I

1018
00:33:51,498 --> 00:33:53,033
DON'T KNOW THAT ANYTHING IS

1019
00:33:53,033 --> 00:33:54,334
REALLY UNIQUE ABOUT NEURAL

1020
00:33:54,334 --> 00:33:55,669
DEVICES, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT

1021
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:57,304
THESE ARGUMENTS FOR PROVIDING

1022
00:33:57,304 --> 00:33:58,705
POST TRIAL CARE, IT SEEMS THAT

1023
00:33:58,705 --> 00:34:00,807
ALL OF THEM HAVE MORE WEIGHT IN

1024
00:34:00,807 --> 00:34:03,577
THE CASES OF THESE NEURAL

1025
00:34:03,577 --> 00:34:03,844
IMPLANTS.

1026
00:34:03,844 --> 00:34:06,313
SO IN GENERAL, I THINK

1027
00:34:06,313 --> 00:34:07,647
POST-TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES ARE

1028
00:34:07,647 --> 00:34:09,116
HIGHER IN NEURAL IMPLANT TRIALS

1029
00:34:09,116 --> 00:34:12,753
THAN IN MOST DRUG TRIALS, ON

1030
00:34:12,753 --> 00:34:12,986
AVERAGE.

1031
00:34:12,986 --> 00:34:15,389
THE ONE THING I HAVEN'T TALKED

1032
00:34:15,389 --> 00:34:17,457
ABOUT YET IS THIS LAST BULLET

1033
00:34:17,457 --> 00:34:19,459
HERE, WHICH IS THE ASSOCIATION

1034
00:34:19,459 --> 00:34:22,362
OF THE BRAIN WITH THINGS LIKE

1035
00:34:22,362 --> 00:34:26,099
IDENTITY AND PERSONALITY.

1036
00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:28,935
SO THIS MIGHT MEAN THAT BRAIN

1037
00:34:28,935 --> 00:34:30,137
IMPLANTS INCLUDING THE BENEFITS

1038
00:34:30,137 --> 00:34:32,572
AND THE RISKS HAVE MORE MEANING

1039
00:34:32,572 --> 00:34:33,140
FOR PATIENTS.

1040
00:34:33,140 --> 00:34:35,375
I THINK WE STILL NEED MORE

1041
00:34:35,375 --> 00:34:36,676
EMPIRICAL AND CONCEPTUAL

1042
00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:37,844
RESEARCH TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH

1043
00:34:37,844 --> 00:34:41,982
WEIGHT TO GIVE TO THIS ARGUMENT.

1044
00:34:41,982 --> 00:34:43,517
SO HOW ABOUT NEURAL IMPLANTS

1045
00:34:43,517 --> 00:34:45,052
COMPARED TO OTHER IMPLANTS?

1046
00:34:45,052 --> 00:34:47,454
WELL, I ACTUALLY THINK MANY OF

1047
00:34:47,454 --> 00:34:49,189
THE ARGUMENTS THAT GIVE MORE

1048
00:34:49,189 --> 00:34:50,624
WEIGHT TO POST-TRIAL

1049
00:34:50,624 --> 00:34:51,625
RESPONSIBILITIES FOR NEURAL

1050
00:34:51,625 --> 00:34:53,026
IMPLANTS ALSO APPLY TO CERTAIN

1051
00:34:53,026 --> 00:34:55,195
TYPES OF OTHER IMPLANTS, FOR

1052
00:34:55,195 --> 00:34:57,097
EXAMPLE, THINK ABOUT CARDIAC

1053
00:34:57,097 --> 00:34:58,532
PACEMAKERS, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY'RE

1054
00:34:58,532 --> 00:35:00,033
PROBABLY RELATIVELY SIMILAR.

1055
00:35:00,033 --> 00:35:01,802
BUT THERE ARE OTHER IMPLANTS

1056
00:35:01,802 --> 00:35:03,336
THAT MAY BE SOMEWHERE ELSE ON

1057
00:35:03,336 --> 00:35:08,275
THE SPECTRUM, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE,

1058
00:35:08,275 --> 00:35:09,476
ANTI-CONCEPTION IMPLANTS OR

1059
00:35:09,476 --> 00:35:12,412
MAYBE CERTAIN IMPLANTS FOR

1060
00:35:12,412 --> 00:35:13,747
DIABETES THAT ARE JUST MUCH

1061
00:35:13,747 --> 00:35:15,916
LOWER RISK RS EASIER TO TAKE OUT

1062
00:35:15,916 --> 00:35:19,419
AND SO ON.

1063
00:35:19,419 --> 00:35:20,921
I DO THINK THAT NEURAL DEVICE

1064
00:35:20,921 --> 00:35:22,155
VERCH RELATIVELY IN AN EARLY

1065
00:35:22,155 --> 00:35:23,290
STAGE COMPARED TO SOME OTHER

1066
00:35:23,290 --> 00:35:25,692
FIELDS OF MEDICINE THAT USUALLY

1067
00:35:25,692 --> 00:35:27,627
HL DHAISH USE A LOT OF IMPLANTS.

1068
00:35:27,627 --> 00:35:29,196
FOR EXAMPLE, CARDIOLOGY OR

1069
00:35:29,196 --> 00:35:30,730
ORTHOPEDICS OR SOMETHING LIKE

1070
00:35:30,730 --> 00:35:32,466
THAT, WHICH CREATES MORE GAPS

1071
00:35:32,466 --> 00:35:33,333
FOR PATIENTS.

1072
00:35:33,333 --> 00:35:35,969
SO FOR EXAMPLE H THESE DEVICES

1073
00:35:35,969 --> 00:35:37,704
TEND TO BE AT A MUCH MORE EARLY

1074
00:35:37,704 --> 00:35:40,474
STAGE, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY ARE

1075
00:35:40,474 --> 00:35:43,410
NONFDA APREUFERRED FOR DIFFERENT

1076
00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:44,945
INDICATION, PATIENTS DESCROONT A

1077
00:35:44,945 --> 00:35:46,012
CLINICALLY AVAILABLE

1078
00:35:46,012 --> 00:35:47,247
ALTERNATIVE, LIKE THERE ARE MANY

1079
00:35:47,247 --> 00:35:48,648
COCHLEAR IMPLANTS, FOR EXAMPLE,

1080
00:35:48,648 --> 00:35:49,549
ALREADY ON THE MARKET, IF YOU

1081
00:35:49,549 --> 00:35:51,051
GET AN EXPERIMENTAL ONE THAT

1082
00:35:51,051 --> 00:35:52,619
DOESN'T WORK OR IT WORKS, BUT

1083
00:35:52,619 --> 00:35:54,020
YOU CAN ALSO SWITCH TO ANOTHER

1084
00:35:54,020 --> 00:35:54,888
ONE PRESUMABLY.

1085
00:35:54,888 --> 00:35:57,757
SO THAT'S NOT THE CASE FOR THESE

1086
00:35:57,757 --> 00:35:58,091
NEUROIMPLANTS.

1087
00:35:58,091 --> 00:35:58,992
ANOTHER THING THAT HAPPENED IN

1088
00:35:58,992 --> 00:36:01,361
SOME OTHER IMPLANT FIELDS LIKE

1089
00:36:01,361 --> 00:36:03,663
CARDIOLOGY IS THEY ESTABLISH

1090
00:36:03,663 --> 00:36:04,865
COMPATIBILITY STANDARDS FOR

1091
00:36:04,865 --> 00:36:05,198
HARDWARE.

1092
00:36:05,198 --> 00:36:10,137
SO WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT YET FOR

1093
00:36:10,137 --> 00:36:11,671
NEUROSCIENCE.

1094
00:36:11,671 --> 00:36:12,439
NEWBORN-IMPLANTED IMPLANTS I

1095
00:36:12,439 --> 00:36:14,441
THINK ARE A LITTLE BIT

1096
00:36:14,441 --> 00:36:14,708
DIFFERENT.

1097
00:36:14,708 --> 00:36:15,308
MANY OF THE FACTORS THAT COME

1098
00:36:15,308 --> 00:36:18,044
TOGETHER FOR OUR IMPLANTS TO

1099
00:36:18,044 --> 00:36:18,979
INCREASE THE RESPONSIBILITIES

1100
00:36:18,979 --> 00:36:22,249
ARE LESS COMMON FOR NONIMPLANTED

1101
00:36:22,249 --> 00:36:23,884
DEVICES, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S NO

1102
00:36:23,884 --> 00:36:25,619
IMPLANT TO TAKE OUT, MAY TARGET

1103
00:36:25,619 --> 00:36:27,487
LESS SEVERE CONDITIONS, NOT

1104
00:36:27,487 --> 00:36:29,122
NECESSARILY TREATMENT-RESISTANT

1105
00:36:29,122 --> 00:36:30,757
PATIENTS, TRIALS MAY NOT BE AS

1106
00:36:30,757 --> 00:36:30,991
RISKY.

1107
00:36:30,991 --> 00:36:32,959
SO I THINK THE NON-IMPLANTED

1108
00:36:32,959 --> 00:36:34,928
DEVICES IN TERMS OF POST-TRIAL

1109
00:36:34,928 --> 00:36:37,330
RESPONSIBILITIES MAY BE MORE

1110
00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:39,799
LIKE DRUGS, FOR EXAMPLE.

1111
00:36:39,799 --> 00:36:42,269
ON THE OTHER HAND, GENE THERAPY

1112
00:36:42,269 --> 00:36:44,171
TRIALS HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH

1113
00:36:44,171 --> 00:36:45,772
I AM IMPLANTS, BUT THAT'S

1114
00:36:45,772 --> 00:36:46,673
ANOTHER TALK.

1115
00:36:46,673 --> 00:36:47,040
OKAY.

1116
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,377
SO WE MADE A COUPLE OF

1117
00:36:50,377 --> 00:36:51,244
RECOMMENDATIONS, AND SUGGEST

1118
00:36:51,244 --> 00:36:52,579
SOME POTENTIAL STRATEGIES FOR

1119
00:36:52,579 --> 00:36:54,548
DREARING THESE NEEDS -- FOR

1120
00:36:54,548 --> 00:36:55,649
ADDRESSING THESE NEEDS.

1121
00:36:55,649 --> 00:36:57,584
I'M GOING TO GO OVER ALL OF

1122
00:36:57,584 --> 00:36:58,919
THEM, BUT BASICALLY THE BASICS

1123
00:36:58,919 --> 00:37:01,755
ARE WE THINK THOSE INVOLVED IN

1124
00:37:01,755 --> 00:37:03,056
THESE TRIALS SHOULD ANTICIPATE

1125
00:37:03,056 --> 00:37:04,491
AND PLAN FOR POST-TRIAL NEEDS

1126
00:37:04,491 --> 00:37:07,127
AND PROPERLY INFORM

1127
00:37:07,127 --> 00:37:07,460
PARTICIPANTS.

1128
00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:09,095
WILL IT MIGHT BE THE CASE THAT

1129
00:37:09,095 --> 00:37:10,297
THIS WOULD REQUIRE OR IT WOULD

1130
00:37:10,297 --> 00:37:14,000
BE HELPFUL FOR FUNDERS, FDA'S OR

1131
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,902
IRBS TO RECOMMEND OR ASSESS

1132
00:37:15,902 --> 00:37:18,305
THESE PLANS FOR CARE AND/OR THE

1133
00:37:18,305 --> 00:37:20,373
DISCLOSURE GUIDANCE, AND THE

1134
00:37:20,373 --> 00:37:23,109
BRAIN INITIATIVE IS IS ALREADY

1135
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:24,911
DOING THAT AT THIS POINTED,

1136
00:37:24,911 --> 00:37:27,280
ASKING FOR A POST-TRIAL PLAN FOR

1137
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,182
SOME OF THESE FUNDING

1138
00:37:29,182 --> 00:37:29,516
OPPORTUNITIES.

1139
00:37:29,516 --> 00:37:32,352
THE INFORMED CONSENT PIECE MAY

1140
00:37:32,352 --> 00:37:34,321
BENEFIT FROM REGULATORY

1141
00:37:34,321 --> 00:37:37,157
GUIDANCE, ALTHOUGH I WILL SAY

1142
00:37:37,157 --> 00:37:39,025
THAT THE RANKS ALREADY SAY WE

1143
00:37:39,025 --> 00:37:40,327
SHOULD DISCLOSE REASONABLY

1144
00:37:40,327 --> 00:37:44,397
FORESEEABLE RISKS, BURDENS AND

1145
00:37:44,397 --> 00:37:46,132
BENEFITS, AND IN MY VIEW, THAT

1146
00:37:46,132 --> 00:37:47,734
COULD BE INTERPRETED AS

1147
00:37:47,734 --> 00:37:49,869
INCLUDING RISKS, BENEFITS AND

1148
00:37:49,869 --> 00:37:51,304
BURDENS AFTER TRIALS END.

1149
00:37:51,304 --> 00:37:52,772
IT'S NOT SPECIFIED THAT WAY IN

1150
00:37:52,772 --> 00:37:55,242
THE RANKS, IT'S NOT INTERPRETED

1151
00:37:55,242 --> 00:37:57,110
THAT WAY BROADLY, BUT I THINK

1152
00:37:57,110 --> 00:37:59,479
MAYBE WE COULD INTERPRET IT THAT

1153
00:37:59,479 --> 00:37:59,713
WAY.

1154
00:37:59,713 --> 00:38:01,047
I ALSO THINK GENERALLY IF

1155
00:38:01,047 --> 00:38:02,983
PATIENTS HAVE A STRONG CLINICAL

1156
00:38:02,983 --> 00:38:04,784
INTEREST IN KEEPING THE DEVICE,

1157
00:38:04,784 --> 00:38:06,620
WE SHOULD REALLY TRY TO MAKE

1158
00:38:06,620 --> 00:38:09,155
SURE THEY CAN.

1159
00:38:09,155 --> 00:38:10,690
AND THEN FOR PATIENTS WHO KEEP

1160
00:38:10,690 --> 00:38:12,659
AN IMPLANT, I THINK WE SHOULD DO

1161
00:38:12,659 --> 00:38:14,628
OUR BEST TO FACILITATE ACCESS TO

1162
00:38:14,628 --> 00:38:17,564
EMERGENCY AND ROUTINE CARE AND

1163
00:38:17,564 --> 00:38:19,132
MINIMIZE OUT-OF-POCKET COSTS AS

1164
00:38:19,132 --> 00:38:19,866
FAR AS POSSIBLE.

1165
00:38:19,866 --> 00:38:21,401
IF WE HAVE TO SET PRIORITIES

1166
00:38:21,401 --> 00:38:23,903
BETWEEN WHAT TYPES OF CARE WE

1167
00:38:23,903 --> 00:38:25,372
SUPPORT, I THINK WE SHOULD FOCUS

1168
00:38:25,372 --> 00:38:27,007
ON RESPONSIBILITIES THAT ARE

1169
00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:29,709
GROUNDED IN NONMA LEF

1170
00:38:29,709 --> 00:38:30,844
NONMALEFICENCE BECAUSE I

1171
00:38:30,844 --> 00:38:32,312
THINK -- NONMA LEF SINCE BECAUSE

1172
00:38:32,312 --> 00:38:35,348
I THINK THIS IS THE STRONGEST

1173
00:38:35,348 --> 00:38:36,983
RESPONSIBILITY WE HAVE TO

1174
00:38:36,983 --> 00:38:37,317
PARTICIPANTS.

1175
00:38:37,317 --> 00:38:38,718
SOME MODELS FOR SHARING THE

1176
00:38:38,718 --> 00:38:39,686
COSTS FOR DOING THIS.

1177
00:38:39,686 --> 00:38:41,755
WE ARE CURRENTLY NEGOTIATING

1178
00:38:41,755 --> 00:38:44,090
DIFFERENT PIECES, MAYBE LIKE AN

1179
00:38:44,090 --> 00:38:46,293
INSTITUTION WAIVES THE FEE FOR

1180
00:38:46,293 --> 00:38:48,461
OPERATING ROOM FOR UNINSURED

1181
00:38:48,461 --> 00:38:49,663
PATIENTS AND THE MANUFACTURER

1182
00:38:49,663 --> 00:38:51,865
DONATES FIVE BATTERIES OR

1183
00:38:51,865 --> 00:38:52,132
WHATEVER.

1184
00:38:52,132 --> 00:38:53,733
THERE'S THIS OTHER MODEL WHICH

1185
00:38:53,733 --> 00:38:55,635
WE'RE INCREASINGLY LOOKING AT,

1186
00:38:55,635 --> 00:38:57,437
WHICH IS HAD THAT STAKEHOLDERS

1187
00:38:57,437 --> 00:39:00,707
ALL PAY INTO A SPECIFIC TYPE OF

1188
00:39:00,707 --> 00:39:01,808
INSURANCE, FUND OR ESCROW OR

1189
00:39:01,808 --> 00:39:03,677
SOME SORT OF COMBINATION OF

1190
00:39:03,677 --> 00:39:05,111
FUNDS, JUST LIKE THE VACCINE

1191
00:39:05,111 --> 00:39:07,280
INJURY FUND IN SOME WAYS, THAT

1192
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,049
MIGHT COVER A SMALL PROGRAM OF

1193
00:39:09,049 --> 00:39:10,283
RESEARCH OR ALL RELEVANT

1194
00:39:10,283 --> 00:39:11,885
RESEARCH SUPPORTED BY A FUNDER,

1195
00:39:11,885 --> 00:39:14,120
MANUFACTURER OR AN INSTITUTION.

1196
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,655
THIS MAY HAVE THE BENEFIT THAT

1197
00:39:15,655 --> 00:39:18,158
IT REDUCES THE FINANCIAL RISKS

1198
00:39:18,158 --> 00:39:21,227
FOR ANY OF THE INDIVIDUAL

1199
00:39:21,227 --> 00:39:22,662
STAKEHOLDER INVOLVED, WHILE ALSO

1200
00:39:22,662 --> 00:39:26,266
THE UPFRONT CONTRIBUTIONS MAY

1201
00:39:26,266 --> 00:39:27,801
PROVIDE MORE STABILITY OF

1202
00:39:27,801 --> 00:39:31,404
COVERAGE FOR PATIENTS.

1203
00:39:31,404 --> 00:39:33,573
SUCH AN INSURANCE PLAN OR FUND

1204
00:39:33,573 --> 00:39:35,742
COULD BE MANAGED BY AN IMPARTIAL

1205
00:39:35,742 --> 00:39:38,411
THIRD PARTY, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE

1206
00:39:38,411 --> 00:39:41,414
CLEAR ARTICULATED COVERAGE

1207
00:39:41,414 --> 00:39:41,748
CRITERIA.

1208
00:39:41,748 --> 00:39:42,649
ANOTHER THING I THINK WE SHOULD

1209
00:39:42,649 --> 00:39:44,617
CONSIDER FOR THIS PARTICULAR

1210
00:39:44,617 --> 00:39:46,386
CONTEXT IS POLICIES OR PRACTICES

1211
00:39:46,386 --> 00:39:48,154
THAT ALLOW COVERAGE TO HEALTH

1212
00:39:48,154 --> 00:39:50,557
INSURANCE BASED ON INDIVIDUAL

1213
00:39:50,557 --> 00:39:54,160
LEVEL BENEFIT.

1214
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,795
SO RIGHT NOW COVERAGE DECISIONS

1215
00:39:55,795 --> 00:39:57,430
ARE LARGELY MADE ON GROUP LEVEL

1216
00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:58,765
BENEFITS, WHICH MAKE SENSE ON A

1217
00:39:58,765 --> 00:40:00,266
POPULATION LEVEL, EXCEPT IN

1218
00:40:00,266 --> 00:40:02,569
THESE CASES WHERE THERE'S STRONG

1219
00:40:02,569 --> 00:40:04,003
EVIDENCE FOR INDIVIDUAL LEVEL

1220
00:40:04,003 --> 00:40:06,406
BENEFIT, I THINK WE MIGHT LOOK

1221
00:40:06,406 --> 00:40:07,841
INTO OPPORTUNITIES FOR INSURANCE

1222
00:40:07,841 --> 00:40:10,243
COVERAGE TOO.

1223
00:40:10,243 --> 00:40:13,179
WE SHOULD TRY TO AVOID THESE

1224
00:40:13,179 --> 00:40:14,714
CASES WHERE THESE CLINICIANS

1225
00:40:14,714 --> 00:40:16,282
WITH HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE

1226
00:40:16,282 --> 00:40:18,017
UPDATES THAT PATIENTS ARE SO

1227
00:40:18,017 --> 00:40:19,753
DEPENDENT ON FALL AWAY AND THEN

1228
00:40:19,753 --> 00:40:22,021
ARE REALLY DIFFICULT TO RESTORE.

1229
00:40:22,021 --> 00:40:23,723
FOR EXAMPLE, WE MIGHT WANT TO

1230
00:40:23,723 --> 00:40:25,725
TRAIN A NETWORK OF CLINICAL

1231
00:40:25,725 --> 00:40:27,560
SPECIALISTS CAPABLE OF PROVIDING

1232
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,996
THIS CARE AND COMPANIES SHOULD

1233
00:40:29,996 --> 00:40:33,366
CONSIDER STRATEGIES TO PROTECT

1234
00:40:33,366 --> 00:40:34,801
PATIENTS AGAINST LOSING ACCESS

1235
00:40:34,801 --> 00:40:36,202
TO A REASONABLE NUMBER OF

1236
00:40:36,202 --> 00:40:39,139
HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE, LIKE SOME

1237
00:40:39,139 --> 00:40:42,442
OF THE STRATEGIES ON THIS PAGE.

1238
00:40:42,442 --> 00:40:42,776
OKAY.

1239
00:40:42,776 --> 00:40:45,945
SO THE MAIN CONCERN ABOUT

1240
00:40:45,945 --> 00:40:48,047
PROVIDING MORE POST-TRIAL CARE

1241
00:40:48,047 --> 00:40:50,016
IS UNDULY AFFECTING SCIENTIFIC

1242
00:40:50,016 --> 00:40:51,885
PROGRESS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT

1243
00:40:51,885 --> 00:40:52,118
BEFORE.

1244
00:40:52,118 --> 00:40:54,421
FOR EXAMPLE, THIS MIGHT

1245
00:40:54,421 --> 00:40:55,722
DISINCENTIVIZE COMPANIES AND

1246
00:40:55,722 --> 00:40:56,589
RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS IN

1247
00:40:56,589 --> 00:40:57,991
PARTICIPATING IN THIS TYPE OF

1248
00:40:57,991 --> 00:40:59,859
RESEARCH, OR IT MIGHT MOVE SOME

1249
00:40:59,859 --> 00:41:02,262
OF THIS RESEARCH TO DIFFERENT

1250
00:41:02,262 --> 00:41:03,363
JURISDICTIONS, WHERE THERE ARE

1251
00:41:03,363 --> 00:41:05,698
LESS STRINGENT REQUIREMENTS.

1252
00:41:05,698 --> 00:41:07,834
I THINK WE SHOULD CAREFULLY

1253
00:41:07,834 --> 00:41:10,270
CONSIDER THESE POTENTIAL

1254
00:41:10,270 --> 00:41:11,271
DRAWBACKS, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS

1255
00:41:11,271 --> 00:41:14,441
OF MANDATING REQUIREMENTS, AND

1256
00:41:14,441 --> 00:41:15,542
IN DETERMINING HOW

1257
00:41:15,542 --> 00:41:16,976
RESPONSIBILITIES ARE

1258
00:41:16,976 --> 00:41:18,778
OPERATIONALIZED AND DISTRIBUTED,

1259
00:41:18,778 --> 00:41:20,747
FOR EXAMPLE, SPECIFYING LIMITS

1260
00:41:20,747 --> 00:41:23,349
AND CRITERIA FOR SUPPORTING POST

1261
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:24,551
TRIAL CARE SEEMS VERY REASONABLE

1262
00:41:24,551 --> 00:41:25,652
TO ME.

1263
00:41:25,652 --> 00:41:27,854
WE MIGHT ALSO WANT TO THINK

1264
00:41:27,854 --> 00:41:29,622
ABOUT INCENTIVES AND OTHER

1265
00:41:29,622 --> 00:41:30,924
POLICY-LEVEL STRATEGIES TO

1266
00:41:30,924 --> 00:41:32,826
CONSIDER AND REDUCE POTENTIAL

1267
00:41:32,826 --> 00:41:33,827
DETERRENT EFFECTS OF PROVIDING

1268
00:41:33,827 --> 00:41:38,164
THIS CARE.

1269
00:41:38,164 --> 00:41:38,398
OKAY.

1270
00:41:38,398 --> 00:41:42,869
SO LET ME END HERE.

1271
00:41:42,869 --> 00:41:44,404
TRIALS INCLUDING BRAIN IMPLANTS

1272
00:41:44,404 --> 00:41:49,776
CAN CAUSE SIGNIFICANT RISKS.

1273
00:41:49,776 --> 00:41:51,744
STILL, PATIENTS ARE VOLUNTEERING

1274
00:41:51,744 --> 00:41:53,379
IN THEM IN ORDER TO BENEFIT

1275
00:41:53,379 --> 00:41:55,381
SOCIETY AND IN THE HOPES OF

1276
00:41:55,381 --> 00:41:57,317
BENEFITING THEMSELVES.

1277
00:41:57,317 --> 00:41:59,385
NOW, THESE PATIENTS ARE AT RISK,

1278
00:41:59,385 --> 00:42:01,254
NOT JUST OF THE RISKS WRN THE

1279
00:42:01,254 --> 00:42:02,689
TRIAL, BUT ALSO AT RISK OF

1280
00:42:02,689 --> 00:42:04,457
SIGNIFICANT UNMET CLINICAL NEEDS

1281
00:42:04,457 --> 00:42:07,026
RELATED TO THEIR RESEARCH

1282
00:42:07,026 --> 00:42:08,862
PARTICIPATION AFTER TRIALS END.

1283
00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:11,898
SO YOU MIGHT DISAGREE WITH SOME

1284
00:42:11,898 --> 00:42:13,299
OF THE SPECIFICS THAT I PROPOSE,

1285
00:42:13,299 --> 00:42:15,068
AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.

1286
00:42:15,068 --> 00:42:15,969
BUT I HOPE TO CONVINCE YOU THAT

1287
00:42:15,969 --> 00:42:18,371
THE NATURE OF THESE BRAIN

1288
00:42:18,371 --> 00:42:19,572
IMPLANT TRIALS INCLUDING THE

1289
00:42:19,572 --> 00:42:20,540
RISKS GIVES US SOME

1290
00:42:20,540 --> 00:42:22,275
RESPONSIBILITY TO AT LEAST DO A

1291
00:42:22,275 --> 00:42:23,710
LITTLE BIT BETTER FOR THESE

1292
00:42:23,710 --> 00:42:25,245
PATIENTS AND ESTABLISH BEST

1293
00:42:25,245 --> 00:42:27,113
PRACTICES FOR POST-TRIAL CARE.

1294
00:42:27,113 --> 00:42:29,716
I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR

1295
00:42:29,716 --> 00:42:32,185
QUESTIONS.

1296
00:42:32,185 --> 00:42:41,361
[APPLAUSE]

1297
00:42:41,361 --> 00:42:42,862
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
SASK

1298
00:42:42,862 --> 00:42:45,698
YARKS THAT WAS TERRIFIC,

1299
00:42:45,698 --> 00:42:47,467
AND --LY SASKIA, THAT WAS

1300
00:42:47,467 --> 00:42:48,134
TERRIFIC, THANK YOU FOR THE

1301
00:42:48,134 --> 00:42:49,435
QUICK CHANGE.

1302
00:42:49,435 --> 00:42:51,738
IT LOOKS LIKE JASMINE HAS A

1303
00:42:51,738 --> 00:42:52,171
QUESTION.

1304
00:42:52,171 --> 00:42:52,872
THERE ARE FOLKS IN THE ROOM YOU

1305
00:42:52,872 --> 00:42:54,807
CAN SEE OBVIOUSLY AND FOLKS IN

1306
00:42:54,807 --> 00:42:56,776
VIRTUAL LAND CAN SEND ME

1307
00:42:56,776 --> 00:42:57,043
QUESTIONS.

1308
00:42:57,043 --> 00:42:58,011
WE'LL START WITH JASMINE.

1309
00:42:58,011 --> 00:42:59,178
>> THANKS VERY MUCH FOR
THIS.

1310
00:42:59,178 --> 00:43:00,914
I FOUND IT REALLY INTERESTING

1311
00:43:00,914 --> 00:43:06,119
AND PLAUSIBLE, BUT I WANTED TO

1312
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:10,690
HEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE

1313
00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:14,527
BENEFICENCE AND NONMALFEASANCE

1314
00:43:14,527 --> 00:43:15,728
REQUIREMENTS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS

1315
00:43:15,728 --> 00:43:19,132
LIKE, I MEAN, AS YOU SAY, THAT

1316
00:43:19,132 --> 00:43:22,535
THE NONMALFEASANCE BIT IS LIKE

1317
00:43:22,535 --> 00:43:23,937
DOING A LOT OF THE WORK, BUT I

1318
00:43:23,937 --> 00:43:25,805
GUESS IT WASN'T CLEAR TO ME WHY

1319
00:43:25,805 --> 00:43:32,679
THAT WE SHOULD THINK OF PULLING

1320
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,114
LIKE SUPPORT AND NOT GIVING

1321
00:43:35,114 --> 00:43:37,684
POST-TRIAL ACCESS AS MALFEASANCE

1322
00:43:37,684 --> 00:43:39,686
IN A LOT OF CASES, BECAUSE, I

1323
00:43:39,686 --> 00:43:40,987
MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE IF THERE'S A

1324
00:43:40,987 --> 00:43:42,422
CHANCE FOR INFECTION OR

1325
00:43:42,422 --> 00:43:45,592
COMPLICATIONS, THAT SEEMS LIKE

1326
00:43:45,592 --> 00:43:46,893
MALFEASANCE, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE

1327
00:43:46,893 --> 00:43:49,662
MOST OF WHAT'S AT ISSUE IS

1328
00:43:49,662 --> 00:43:51,064
THEY'VE LIKE REALLY GOTTEN USED

1329
00:43:51,064 --> 00:43:52,966
TO THESE BENEFITS, AND IT'S GOOD

1330
00:43:52,966 --> 00:43:54,601
FOR THEM TO HAVE THESE BENEFITS,

1331
00:43:54,601 --> 00:43:56,569
AND PULLING THEM LIKE CAUSES A

1332
00:43:56,569 --> 00:43:58,004
KIND OF EMOTIONAL HARM, BUT IT

1333
00:43:58,004 --> 00:43:59,872
SEEMS LIKE IT'S KIND OF JUST AN

1334
00:43:59,872 --> 00:44:01,074
EMOTIONAL HARM THAT'S A REACTION

1335
00:44:01,074 --> 00:44:02,809
TONTD HAVING THE BENEFIT.

1336
00:44:02,809 --> 00:44:04,677
-- TONT HAVING THE BENEFIT.

1337
00:44:04,677 --> 00:44:07,080
SO IKS -- TO NOT HAVING THE

1338
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:07,313
BENEFIT.

1339
00:44:07,313 --> 00:44:09,182
I GUESS I WAS HOPING YOU COULD

1340
00:44:09,182 --> 00:44:10,149
SAY A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THAT.

1341
00:44:10,149 --> 00:44:12,685
>> THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY

1342
00:44:12,685 --> 00:44:13,753
ON CLARIFY THAT.

1343
00:44:13,753 --> 00:44:15,188
I AGREE WITH YOU, BASICALLY NEW

1344
00:44:15,188 --> 00:44:16,723
YORK STOCK EXCHANGE THE BENEFITS

1345
00:44:16,723 --> 00:44:20,193
OF A DEVICE, TO ME THAT'S A BEEN

1346
00:44:20,193 --> 00:44:22,495
HE SINCE BASED, IF WE HAVE AN

1347
00:44:22,495 --> 00:44:24,364
OBLIGATION, THAT'S A BENEFICENCE

1348
00:44:24,364 --> 00:44:24,597
BASE.

1349
00:44:24,597 --> 00:44:25,832
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN MANY

1350
00:44:25,832 --> 00:44:26,499
OF THESE CASES.

1351
00:44:26,499 --> 00:44:27,934
THERE ARE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO

1352
00:44:27,934 --> 00:44:31,170
HAVE ARC YOU HAD FOR

1353
00:44:31,170 --> 00:44:32,305
NONMALEFICENCE CLAIMS RELATED

1354
00:44:32,305 --> 00:44:34,273
TOP THE PSYCHOSOCIAL HARMS OF

1355
00:44:34,273 --> 00:44:35,808
LOSING ACCESS TO A DEVICE, SO

1356
00:44:35,808 --> 00:44:37,110
THERE IS SOME LITERATURE ABOUT

1357
00:44:37,110 --> 00:44:39,278
THAT WHICH YOU JUST BROUGHT UP,

1358
00:44:39,278 --> 00:44:43,883
BUT I THINK TO ME THE MA LEF

1359
00:44:43,883 --> 00:44:45,652
SINCE -- MALEFICENCE COMES INTO

1360
00:44:45,652 --> 00:44:47,387
PLAY NOT JUST WHEN COMPLICATIONS

1361
00:44:47,387 --> 00:44:49,122
IMURT ALSO THE ROUTINE CARE

1362
00:44:49,122 --> 00:44:50,490
THAT'S REQUIRED TO CONTINUE TO

1363
00:44:50,490 --> 00:44:51,658
REDUCE SIDE EFFECTS AND REDUCE

1364
00:44:51,658 --> 00:44:52,859
THE CHANCE OF COMPLICATIONS OF

1365
00:44:52,859 --> 00:44:55,595
HAVING A BRAIN IMPLANT.

1366
00:44:55,595 --> 00:44:59,098
IT ALSO COMES UP WHEN IN THE

1367
00:44:59,098 --> 00:45:01,534
CONTEXT OF EXPLANTATION OF THESE

1368
00:45:01,534 --> 00:45:02,335
DEVICES.

1369
00:45:02,335 --> 00:45:04,837
SO SOME TRIALS PLAN ON BASIC

1370
00:45:04,837 --> 00:45:08,141
EX-PLANTING THE DEVICE AFTER THE

1371
00:45:08,141 --> 00:45:09,676
STUDY ENDS, WHICH CAN BE

1372
00:45:09,676 --> 00:45:11,978
APPROPRIATE IN CERTAIN CONTEXTS,

1373
00:45:11,978 --> 00:45:13,079
BUT THAT INVOLVES ADDITIONAL

1374
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:15,815
RISKS TO YOUR PARTICIPANT.

1375
00:45:15,815 --> 00:45:18,317
SO EXPLANTATION I THINK OR

1376
00:45:18,317 --> 00:45:19,952
AVOIDING EXPLANTATION ALSO CAN

1377
00:45:19,952 --> 00:45:22,689
BE SEEN AS A NONMALEFICENCE

1378
00:45:22,689 --> 00:45:23,056
BASED DUTY.

1379
00:45:23,056 --> 00:45:23,823
DOES THAT HELP?

1380
00:45:23,823 --> 00:45:25,792
>> THANKS, THAT WAS VERY

1381
00:45:25,792 --> 00:45:26,025
HELPFUL.

1382
00:45:26,025 --> 00:45:26,926
>> YEAH, GREAT QUESTION.

1383
00:45:26,926 --> 00:45:27,894
>> CAROLINE, GO AHEAD.

1384
00:45:27,894 --> 00:45:29,128
>> HI.

1385
00:45:29,128 --> 00:45:30,630
THANK YOU, SASKIA.

1386
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:31,798
I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.

1387
00:45:31,798 --> 00:45:37,603
ONE OF THEM IS I GUESS MORE

1388
00:45:37,603 --> 00:45:38,604
LOGISTICAL.

1389
00:45:38,604 --> 00:45:40,573
IT SEEMS LIKE A BIG PART OF THE

1390
00:45:40,573 --> 00:45:42,542
TALK WAS LIKE COST INCENTIVES

1391
00:45:42,542 --> 00:45:45,411
FOR COMPANIES WHO ARE DEVELOPING

1392
00:45:45,411 --> 00:45:47,380
THESE DRUGS AND THAT OFTENTIMES

1393
00:45:47,380 --> 00:45:49,148
THEY COME IT A POINT WHERE

1394
00:45:49,148 --> 00:45:50,783
THERE'S NOT COMMERCIAL VIABILITY

1395
00:45:50,783 --> 00:45:52,385
HAD, AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU

1396
00:45:52,385 --> 00:45:54,187
COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE

1397
00:45:54,187 --> 00:45:56,255
ABOUT WHY THAT MIGHT BE THE CASE

1398
00:45:56,255 --> 00:45:58,658
FOR NEURAL DEVICES AS OPPOSED TO

1399
00:45:58,658 --> 00:46:00,626
PHARMACEUTICAL DEVICES AND WHAT

1400
00:46:00,626 --> 00:46:01,627
SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS THERE ARE

1401
00:46:01,627 --> 00:46:04,697
IN TERMS OF ENSURING COMMERCIAL

1402
00:46:04,697 --> 00:46:05,898
VIABILITY AS WELL AS FDA

1403
00:46:05,898 --> 00:46:06,966
APPROVAL ASK HOW THAT MIGHT

1404
00:46:06,966 --> 00:46:09,469
DIFFER FROM PHARMACEUTICALS.

1405
00:46:09,469 --> 00:46:12,238
AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION WAS

1406
00:46:12,238 --> 00:46:14,741
LAST WEEK JOE TALKED OR BROUGHT

1407
00:46:14,741 --> 00:46:20,079
UP THE POINT THAT PERHAPS THE

1408
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:20,947
POST-TRIAL BENEFITS

1409
00:46:20,947 --> 00:46:23,583
RESPONSIBILITY STEMS FROM LIKE A

1410
00:46:23,583 --> 00:46:25,118
SPECIAL -- OR WHETHER OR NOT

1411
00:46:25,118 --> 00:46:26,319
RESEARCHERS SHOULD TAKE ON THE

1412
00:46:26,319 --> 00:46:28,287
RESPONSIBILITY OF LIKE A

1413
00:46:28,287 --> 00:46:30,256
DOCTOR-PATIENT RELATIONSHIP AND

1414
00:46:30,256 --> 00:46:31,657
LIKE WHETHER OR NOT THAT MIGHT

1415
00:46:31,657 --> 00:46:32,759
HAVE LIKE SPECIAL APPLICATIONS

1416
00:46:32,759 --> 00:46:37,597
IN THIS CASE BECAUSE THE IMPLANT

1417
00:46:37,597 --> 00:46:39,265
IS IMPLANTED IN THEM AND YOU

1418
00:46:39,265 --> 00:46:40,767
CAN'T TAKE THEM OUT, AND IT'S

1419
00:46:40,767 --> 00:46:42,201
LIKE SO INTIMATELY RELATED TO

1420
00:46:42,201 --> 00:46:44,403
THEIR CARE AND WHETHER OR NOT WE

1421
00:46:44,403 --> 00:46:46,139
SHOULD APPLY LIKE CLINICAL

1422
00:46:46,139 --> 00:46:47,673
RESPONSIBILITIES TO POST-TRIAL

1423
00:46:47,673 --> 00:46:49,742
CARE, WHICH MIGHT HAVE A HIGHER

1424
00:46:49,742 --> 00:46:51,010
STANDARD THAN RESEARCH

1425
00:46:51,010 --> 00:46:54,714
RESPONSIBILITIES TO THE PATIENT.

1426
00:46:54,714 --> 00:46:56,916
>> GREAT QUESTIONS.

1427
00:46:56,916 --> 00:46:57,517
THANK YOU.

1428
00:46:57,517 --> 00:47:00,453
LET ME START WITH THE SECOND

1429
00:47:00,453 --> 00:47:00,620
ONE.

1430
00:47:00,620 --> 00:47:03,856
SO YES, SOME ARGUE FOR POST

1431
00:47:03,856 --> 00:47:04,791
TRIAL RESPONSIBILITIES GROUNDED

1432
00:47:04,791 --> 00:47:06,359
IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE

1433
00:47:06,359 --> 00:47:09,462
RESEARCHER AND THE PATIENT, AND

1434
00:47:09,462 --> 00:47:11,097
MANY OF THE PEOPLE I'VE SPOKEN

1435
00:47:11,097 --> 00:47:14,500
TO WHO THINK THAT'S -- WOULD

1436
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:16,469
ARGUE THAT THOSE

1437
00:47:16,469 --> 00:47:17,203
RELATIONSHIP-BASED

1438
00:47:17,203 --> 00:47:18,204
RESPONSIBILITIES GET STRONGER IF

1439
00:47:18,204 --> 00:47:20,072
RELATIONSHIPS ARE TIGHTER AND IF

1440
00:47:20,072 --> 00:47:21,474
PATIENTS ARE MORE DEPENDENT ON

1441
00:47:21,474 --> 00:47:24,477
THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE

1442
00:47:24,477 --> 00:47:25,778
SPECIFIC CLINICIAN, WHICH TENDS

1443
00:47:25,778 --> 00:47:28,414
TO REALLY BE THE CASE IN THESE

1444
00:47:28,414 --> 00:47:30,616
TYPES OF TRIALS OR BASED ON A

1445
00:47:30,616 --> 00:47:33,019
LOT OF THESE TRIALS, I'M

1446
00:47:33,019 --> 00:47:33,886
GENERALIZING A LITTLE BIT,

1447
00:47:33,886 --> 00:47:35,188
BECAUSE THEY INVOLVE SUCH A

1448
00:47:35,188 --> 00:47:39,025
CLOSE COLLABORATION WITH THE

1449
00:47:39,025 --> 00:47:40,359
NEUROSURGICAL TEAM AND THE

1450
00:47:40,359 --> 00:47:42,862
PATIENT TO LEARN HOW TO WORK THE

1451
00:47:42,862 --> 00:47:44,063
MACHINE FOR THE PATIENT'S

1452
00:47:44,063 --> 00:47:46,465
BENEFIT BASICALLY AND TO CONDUCT

1453
00:47:46,465 --> 00:47:49,302
THE RESEARCH, AS WELL AS A HIGH

1454
00:47:49,302 --> 00:47:51,737
DEPENDENCY OF THE PATIENT ON

1455
00:47:51,737 --> 00:47:55,775
THIS SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL.

1456
00:47:55,775 --> 00:48:01,247
SO I THINK, I DO THINK THAT

1457
00:48:01,247 --> 00:48:02,215
INCREASES THE RESPONSIBILITIES

1458
00:48:02,215 --> 00:48:04,851
BASED ON THE RELATIONSHIP FOR

1459
00:48:04,851 --> 00:48:06,152
THESE TYPES OF TRIEMS.

1460
00:48:06,152 --> 00:48:08,020
I'M NOT SURE -- FOR THESE TYPES

1461
00:48:08,020 --> 00:48:08,788
OF TRIALS.

1462
00:48:08,788 --> 00:48:11,290
I'M NOT SURE I WOULD -- TO ME,

1463
00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:12,592
CHARACTERIZING THESE NEEDS AS

1464
00:48:12,592 --> 00:48:13,793
RELATED TO THE RESEARCH AS

1465
00:48:13,793 --> 00:48:17,463
OPPOSED TO GENERAL CLINICAL

1466
00:48:17,463 --> 00:48:19,532
NEEDS SERVES THE PURPOSE THAT,

1467
00:48:19,532 --> 00:48:21,500
FIRST, I MEAN, THEY ARE CAUSALLY

1468
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:22,902
CONNECTED TO RESEARCH, OF

1469
00:48:22,902 --> 00:48:27,840
COURSE, BUT ALSO THERE ARE SO

1470
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,609
MANY NEEDS A -- THERE ARE SO

1471
00:48:29,609 --> 00:48:32,345
MANY CLINICAL NEEDS A PATIENT IN

1472
00:48:32,345 --> 00:48:34,780
THIS COUNTRY ARE UNMELT AND

1473
00:48:34,780 --> 00:48:36,082
DOESN'T PROVIDE CLINICIAN

1474
00:48:36,082 --> 00:48:37,416
NECESSARILY OBLIGATION TO MEET

1475
00:48:37,416 --> 00:48:38,918
THOSE NEEDS, SO I THINK WE HAVE

1476
00:48:38,918 --> 00:48:40,920
A LARGER OBLIGATION FOR

1477
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,788
RESEARCH-BASED CLINICAL NEEDS

1478
00:48:42,788 --> 00:48:44,891
BECAUSE THE PATIENT TOOK THEM ON

1479
00:48:44,891 --> 00:48:46,559
ON BEHALF OF TO BENEFIT SOCIETY

1480
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:47,960
AND WE ARE AS A SOCIETY

1481
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:48,961
BENEFITING FROM THEIR RISKS AND

1482
00:48:48,961 --> 00:48:53,366
BURDENS THAT THEY UNDERTOOK, AND

1483
00:48:53,366 --> 00:48:54,000
WE'RE -- YEAH.

1484
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,201
SO I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING

1485
00:48:55,201 --> 00:48:59,272
THAT THE RESEARCH PIECE DOES

1486
00:48:59,272 --> 00:49:00,673
THERE, WHICH MAKES ME WANT TO

1487
00:49:00,673 --> 00:49:02,241
NOT JUST REFER TO THESE AS

1488
00:49:02,241 --> 00:49:04,877
CLINICAL NEEDS NECESSARILY.

1489
00:49:04,877 --> 00:49:07,380
IN RELATION IT YOUR FIRST

1490
00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:10,750
QUESTION ABOUT VIABILITY OF

1491
00:49:10,750 --> 00:49:14,186
DRUGS VERSUS DEVICES AND THE

1492
00:49:14,186 --> 00:49:16,923
COMMERCIALIZATION THEREOF, I

1493
00:49:16,923 --> 00:49:19,458
ACTUALLY THINK THAT'S A GOOD

1494
00:49:19,458 --> 00:49:19,725
QUESTION.

1495
00:49:19,725 --> 00:49:20,893
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S

1496
00:49:20,893 --> 00:49:23,296
STRUCTURAL EVIDENCE ON WHETHER

1497
00:49:23,296 --> 00:49:26,532
PHARMACEUTICALS OR DRUGS ARE

1498
00:49:26,532 --> 00:49:29,302
MORE OR LESS LIKELY TO BE

1499
00:49:29,302 --> 00:49:31,270
COMMERCIALLY VIABLE THAN

1500
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:31,604
DEVICES.

1501
00:49:31,604 --> 00:49:35,007
I'M SURE WHAT THE DATA SAYS ON

1502
00:49:35,007 --> 00:49:38,344
THAT ONE.

1503
00:49:38,344 --> 00:49:40,579
I DO THINK THIS IS A SPACE WHERE

1504
00:49:40,579 --> 00:49:42,648
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STARTUPS.

1505
00:49:42,648 --> 00:49:44,517
COMMERCIAL VIABILITY TENDS TO BE

1506
00:49:44,517 --> 00:49:47,920
HARDER FOR A SMALLER POPULATION

1507
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,355
SIZES, SO LIKE RARE DISEASES,

1508
00:49:49,355 --> 00:49:53,292
BUT THOSE ARE FOR BOTH DEVICES

1509
00:49:53,292 --> 00:49:54,627
AND DRUGS TOO, SO I THINK I'LL

1510
00:49:54,627 --> 00:49:56,028
HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON THE

1511
00:49:56,028 --> 00:49:57,763
DATA ON THAT ONE.

1512
00:49:57,763 --> 00:50:01,400
>> WE DO KNOW FROM A
COUPLE OF

1513
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:02,935
LECTURES AGO HOW, YOU KNOW, THE

1514
00:50:02,935 --> 00:50:04,403
NUMBER OF PHARMACEUTICALS THAT

1515
00:50:04,403 --> 00:50:07,506
START OUT IN PHASE I THAT GO TO

1516
00:50:07,506 --> 00:50:09,709
PHASE II, THAT GO TO PHASE III,

1517
00:50:09,709 --> 00:50:12,044
THERE'S A PRETTY HUGE DROPOFF.

1518
00:50:12,044 --> 00:50:14,780
SO IF WE THINK OF MANY OF THESE

1519
00:50:14,780 --> 00:50:17,717
TRIALS AS PHASE I, PHASE II, WE

1520
00:50:17,717 --> 00:50:20,453
KNOW BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT

1521
00:50:20,453 --> 00:50:22,855
MORE COMMON DRUG COMPOUNDS THAT

1522
00:50:22,855 --> 00:50:24,657
THERE'S A BIG FALLOFF, AND THE

1523
00:50:24,657 --> 00:50:26,525
DIFFERENCE HERE, RIGHT, IS THAT

1524
00:50:26,525 --> 00:50:27,960
IT'S IMPLANTED IN YOUR BRAIN

1525
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,730
VERSUS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE

1526
00:50:30,730 --> 00:50:37,103
TAKING IN.

1527
00:50:37,103 --> 00:50:43,476
>> (AWAY FROM MICROPHONE).

1528
00:50:43,476 --> 00:50:45,177
>> IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK
THAT

1529
00:50:45,177 --> 00:50:47,580
WAY, AND IN SOME OF THESE CASES,

1530
00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:49,181
FOR EXAMPLE, DBS FOR DEPRESSION,

1531
00:50:49,181 --> 00:50:50,416
WE'VE TRIED THAT FOR A LONG

1532
00:50:50,416 --> 00:50:52,184
TIME, AND ESPECIALLY THE EARLY

1533
00:50:52,184 --> 00:50:55,021
WORK, IT APPEARED TO HAVE

1534
00:50:55,021 --> 00:50:56,422
BENEFITS FOR SMALL POPULATIONS

1535
00:50:56,422 --> 00:50:58,324
THAT WE COULDN'T IDENTIFY AHEAD

1536
00:50:58,324 --> 00:50:59,291
OF TIME.

1537
00:50:59,291 --> 00:51:01,861
SO NOT FOR THE ENTIRE GROUP, BUT

1538
00:51:01,861 --> 00:51:03,496
YES, FOR LIKE WHATEVER, A SMALL

1539
00:51:03,496 --> 00:51:06,732
NUMBER OF PATIENTS WITHIN THAT

1540
00:51:06,732 --> 00:51:06,999
TRIAL.

1541
00:51:06,999 --> 00:51:10,169
PART OF IT IS BECAUSE WE JUST

1542
00:51:10,169 --> 00:51:11,604
DON'T KNOW HOW WELL -- WE DON'T

1543
00:51:11,604 --> 00:51:12,905
UNDERSTAND THE BRAIN PERHAPS AS

1544
00:51:12,905 --> 00:51:15,074
WELL AS WE WOULD LIKE.

1545
00:51:15,074 --> 00:51:17,610
>> KELLY, AND THEN WE HAVE
A

1546
00:51:17,610 --> 00:51:18,911
COUPLE QUESTIONS FROM OUR

1547
00:51:18,911 --> 00:51:20,813
VIRTUAL AUDIENCE.

1548
00:51:20,813 --> 00:51:22,114
>> HI, SASKIA.

1549
00:51:22,114 --> 00:51:24,483
SO I WAS WONDERING, ESPECIALLY

1550
00:51:24,483 --> 00:51:26,786
WITH THESE, THE KIND OF LIKE

1551
00:51:26,786 --> 00:51:28,320
WITH NEURAL IMPLANTS BECAUSE

1552
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:29,855
THEY TEND TO BE SO KIND OF LIKE

1553
00:51:29,855 --> 00:51:32,591
EARLY STAGE, WHETHER THERE'S

1554
00:51:32,591 --> 00:51:33,893
MAYBE LIKE -- LIKE WHETHER YOU

1555
00:51:33,893 --> 00:51:35,094
COULD SORT OF JUSTIFY PROVIDING

1556
00:51:35,094 --> 00:51:37,663
THE SORT OF POST-TRIAL CARE AS

1557
00:51:37,663 --> 00:51:39,732
AN EXTENSION OF LIKE AN ABILITY

1558
00:51:39,732 --> 00:51:41,867
TO DO RESEARCH, JUST BECAUSE IT

1559
00:51:41,867 --> 00:51:43,135
SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU

1560
00:51:43,135 --> 00:51:44,503
HAVE A PATIENT WHO HAS THIS

1561
00:51:44,503 --> 00:51:45,838
IMPLANT AND MAYBE LIKE TEN YEARS

1562
00:51:45,838 --> 00:51:47,239
DOWN THE LINE, YOU KNOW, THE

1563
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,808
DEVICE STARTS TO MALFUNCTION,

1564
00:51:48,808 --> 00:51:49,875
THAT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING THAT

1565
00:51:49,875 --> 00:51:51,644
WOULD BE IMPORTANT SAFETY AND

1566
00:51:51,644 --> 00:51:52,645
EFFICACY DATA TO BE ABLE TO

1567
00:51:52,645 --> 00:51:54,947
COLLECT RS EVEN IF IT'S WITH A

1568
00:51:54,947 --> 00:51:56,816
VERY SMALL END, SO I WAS JUST

1569
00:51:56,816 --> 00:51:58,117
WONDERING LIKE IF YOU THINK THAT

1570
00:51:58,117 --> 00:52:00,319
BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF NEURAL

1571
00:52:00,319 --> 00:52:01,720
IMPLANT RESEARCH, LIKE IF THAT

1572
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,489
WOULD BE KIND OF A VIABLE

1573
00:52:03,489 --> 00:52:06,859
ARGUMENT TO MAKE.

1574
00:52:06,859 --> 00:52:12,798
>> TO SOME DEGREE I THINK
YES.

1575
00:52:12,798 --> 00:52:15,167
I MEAN, THE FDA REQUIRES THE

1576
00:52:15,167 --> 00:52:16,735
ADMINISTRATION OF SOME ADVERSE

1577
00:52:16,735 --> 00:52:17,636
EFFECTS GENERALLY SPEAKING, SO

1578
00:52:17,636 --> 00:52:18,904
SOME OF THAT DATA IS ALREADY

1579
00:52:18,904 --> 00:52:20,873
BEING COLLECTED, EVEN IF WE

1580
00:52:20,873 --> 00:52:22,141
DON'T TAKE CARE OF PATIENTS.

1581
00:52:22,141 --> 00:52:25,478
THERE ARE SOME STUDIES OR TEAMS

1582
00:52:25,478 --> 00:52:27,113
THAT IF HOPE TO DO LONG-TERM

1583
00:52:27,113 --> 00:52:28,981
FOLLOW-UP STUDIES OR USE

1584
00:52:28,981 --> 00:52:31,050
LONG-TERM FOLLOW-UP STRATEGIES

1585
00:52:31,050 --> 00:52:32,251
STUDIES AS A STRATEGY TO

1586
00:52:32,251 --> 00:52:34,687
CONTINUE TO PROVIDE CARE FOR

1587
00:52:34,687 --> 00:52:36,889
PARTICIPANTS, WHICH I THINK IS A

1588
00:52:36,889 --> 00:52:38,424
FINE STRATEGY.

1589
00:52:38,424 --> 00:52:39,959
THE ONLY PROBLEM I SEE WITH IT

1590
00:52:39,959 --> 00:52:41,827
IS RELYING ON THAT STRATEGY IF

1591
00:52:41,827 --> 00:52:43,996
YOU HAVEN'T YET SECURED FUNDING

1592
00:52:43,996 --> 00:52:46,765
FOR FOLLOW-UP TRIALS BECAUSE YOU

1593
00:52:46,765 --> 00:52:48,400
MIGHT NOT THEN GET THAT FUNDING,

1594
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,570
AND IF THAT WAS YOUR PLAN, THAT

1595
00:52:51,570 --> 00:52:53,105
MIGHT FALL TRUE.

1596
00:52:53,105 --> 00:52:55,508
BUT I DO THINK THAT FOLLOW-UP

1597
00:52:55,508 --> 00:52:56,709
STUDIES CAN PLAY AN IMPORTANT

1598
00:52:56,709 --> 00:52:59,545
ROLE IN THIS AND PERHAPS LIKE

1599
00:52:59,545 --> 00:53:01,881
ONE OF THE WAYS OF THINKING

1600
00:53:01,881 --> 00:53:02,648
ABOUT SOLUTIONS WOULD BE TO

1601
00:53:02,648 --> 00:53:04,383
THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN SECURE

1602
00:53:04,383 --> 00:53:06,619
THE MORE LONG-TERM HORIZON.

1603
00:53:06,619 --> 00:53:07,786
ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS THAT

1604
00:53:07,786 --> 00:53:10,322
SOME OF THESE NEEDS MIGHT BE

1605
00:53:10,322 --> 00:53:12,057
LIKE FOR A PATIENT'S LIFETIME,

1606
00:53:12,057 --> 00:53:13,692
SO THAT'S A LONG TIME FOR A

1607
00:53:13,692 --> 00:53:17,730
FOLLOW-UP STUDIES.

1608
00:53:17,730 --> 00:53:17,930
MUCH.

1609
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:19,932
>> GREAT.  WE HAVE A
COUPLE MORE

1610
00:53:19,932 --> 00:53:20,166
MINUTES.

1611
00:53:20,166 --> 00:53:21,133
I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS

1612
00:53:21,133 --> 00:53:23,769
FROM THE VIRTUAL AUDIENCE.

1613
00:53:23,769 --> 00:53:26,939
SO YOU VERY BRIEFLY TOUCHED ON

1614
00:53:26,939 --> 00:53:30,776
THIS TOPIC, BUT DALIP WONDERS

1615
00:53:30,776 --> 00:53:32,077
SHOULD WE BE WORRIED ABOUT THE

1616
00:53:32,077 --> 00:53:33,846
SORT OF CONFLICT OF AUTONOMY

1617
00:53:33,846 --> 00:53:35,247
BETWEEN AN INDIVIDUAL AND A

1618
00:53:35,247 --> 00:53:38,517
MACHINE THAT IS IMPLANTED?

1619
00:53:38,517 --> 00:53:39,752
WE MIGHT NOT BE THERE YET, BUT

1620
00:53:39,752 --> 00:53:42,288
THAT MIGHT EXAGGERATE SOME OF

1621
00:53:42,288 --> 00:53:45,090
THE WORRIES THAT NOT KNOWING HOW

1622
00:53:45,090 --> 00:53:47,193
PERSONALITY BE CHANGES MAY

1623
00:53:47,193 --> 00:53:47,393
OCCUR.

1624
00:53:47,393 --> 00:53:50,462
>> YEAH.

1625
00:53:50,462 --> 00:53:55,868
THERE IS A LITERATURE ABOUT THAT

1626
00:53:55,868 --> 00:53:58,604
QUESTION, AND IT'S GETTING MORE

1627
00:53:58,604 --> 00:54:03,542
ATTENTION NOW THAT SOME OF THESE

1628
00:54:03,542 --> 00:54:05,377
DEVICES ARE USING AI TO IMPROVE

1629
00:54:05,377 --> 00:54:07,680
THEIR OWN ALGORITHMS, SO THAT

1630
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,916
MAKES IT MORE OF A BLACK BOX OF

1631
00:54:10,916 --> 00:54:13,352
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR BRAIN,

1632
00:54:13,352 --> 00:54:16,222
AND THERE ARE -- I MEAN, THERE

1633
00:54:16,222 --> 00:54:19,191
ARE DEFINITELY CONCERNS RELATED

1634
00:54:19,191 --> 00:54:21,026
TO DIMINISHING AUTONOMY BASED ON

1635
00:54:21,026 --> 00:54:24,096
THESE TYPES OF DEVICES, FOR

1636
00:54:24,096 --> 00:54:27,399
EXAMPLE, THE GROUP IN SEATTLE

1637
00:54:27,399 --> 00:54:29,134
REPORTS ON SOME OF THESE

1638
00:54:29,134 --> 00:54:30,169
EFFECTS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I

1639
00:54:30,169 --> 00:54:31,337
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO

1640
00:54:31,337 --> 00:54:33,439
APPRECIATE THAT FOR MANY

1641
00:54:33,439 --> 00:54:35,074
PATIENTS, IF THESE DEVICES WORK,

1642
00:54:35,074 --> 00:54:36,942
THEY ACTUALLY ENHANCE AUTONOMY

1643
00:54:36,942 --> 00:54:38,143
SIGNIFICANTLY BECAUSE THEY ALLOW

1644
00:54:38,143 --> 00:54:39,878
PATIENTS TO DO SO MUCH MORE OF

1645
00:54:39,878 --> 00:54:44,083
THEIR OWN ACTIVITIES.

1646
00:54:44,083 --> 00:54:45,918
SO THERE ARE -- BUT I THINK

1647
00:54:45,918 --> 00:54:46,919
THERE ARE SOME COMPLEX

1648
00:54:46,919 --> 00:54:48,554
PHILOSOPHICAL AND EMPIRICAL

1649
00:54:48,554 --> 00:54:49,788
QUESTIONS THAT WE ARE JUST

1650
00:54:49,788 --> 00:54:51,390
DELVING INTO.

1651
00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:53,726
>> GREAT.

1652
00:54:53,726 --> 00:54:58,664
SO FOLCMON SCTION, HAVE -- ASKS,

1653
00:54:58,664 --> 00:55:00,833
HAVE COMPANIES FAILED TO PROVIDE

1654
00:55:00,833 --> 00:55:02,468
POST-TRIAL CAIRKS ARE THERE SORT

1655
00:55:02,468 --> 00:55:03,802
OF FOLLOW-UP STORIES TO THE ONES

1656
00:55:03,802 --> 00:55:05,738
YOU SHARED ABOUT PEOPLE WHO

1657
00:55:05,738 --> 00:55:06,972
ENCOUNTER HARM BECAUSE THEY HAVE

1658
00:55:06,972 --> 00:55:11,777
A DEVICE THAT ISN'T EX-PLANTED,

1659
00:55:11,777 --> 00:55:12,077
FOR EXAMPLE?

1660
00:55:12,077 --> 00:55:14,446
>> YES.

1661
00:55:14,446 --> 00:55:21,253
SO THAT'S WHY THE QUICK VERSION.

1662
00:55:21,253 --> 00:55:24,290
>> THERE ARE PEOPLE --
THERE ARE

1663
00:55:24,290 --> 00:55:25,991
PEOPLE WHO HAD TO HAVE AN

1664
00:55:25,991 --> 00:55:27,126
EX-PLANT BECAUSE THE COMPANY

1665
00:55:27,126 --> 00:55:28,460
FOLDED, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE

1666
00:55:28,460 --> 00:55:29,662
NOW WALKING AROUND WITH IMPLANTS

1667
00:55:29,662 --> 00:55:31,163
WHO ARE NOT SUPPORTED, SO THEY

1668
00:55:31,163 --> 00:55:32,898
CAN'T USE THEM, THEY MIGHT

1669
00:55:32,898 --> 00:55:33,098
NOT --

1670
00:55:33,098 --> 00:55:34,500
>> OR TURNED OFF,
BASICALLY.

1671
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:36,835
>> THEY'RE TURNED OFF,
YEAH, OR

1672
00:55:36,835 --> 00:55:37,936
THEY'RE STILL TURNED ON BUT

1673
00:55:37,936 --> 00:55:39,004
THEY'RE JUST WAITING FOR THE

1674
00:55:39,004 --> 00:55:40,572
BATTERY TO DIE OUT AND THEN FOR

1675
00:55:40,572 --> 00:55:41,674
THEM TO LOSE ACCESS.

1676
00:55:41,674 --> 00:55:44,510
IN SOME CASES, THERE ARE OTHER

1677
00:55:44,510 --> 00:55:48,447
ROUTES FOUND TO HELP THESE

1678
00:55:48,447 --> 00:55:49,648
PATIENTS, LIKE SOME OF THIS

1679
00:55:49,648 --> 00:55:50,983
ACTUALLY COMES DOWN TO MONEY AND

1680
00:55:50,983 --> 00:55:52,484
IN SOME CASES YOU CAN FIND MONEY

1681
00:55:52,484 --> 00:55:57,423
IN DIFFERENT PLACES, BUT IT'S

1682
00:55:57,423 --> 00:55:58,957
THE EXPERTISE AND THE HARDWARE,

1683
00:55:58,957 --> 00:56:01,927
THE COMMERCIALLY PROPRIETARY

1684
00:56:01,927 --> 00:56:03,662
HARDWARE PIECES THAT ARE REALLY

1685
00:56:03,662 --> 00:56:06,065
HARD TO REPLACE EVEN IF YOU HAVE

1686
00:56:06,065 --> 00:56:11,670
MONEY, IF THERE IS TR A KINK IN

1687
00:56:11,670 --> 00:56:11,870
THERE.

1688
00:56:11,870 --> 00:56:13,872
>> ONE LAST QUESTION AND
TWO

1689
00:56:13,872 --> 00:56:15,307
FOLKS EMPLOYED THIS, AND I DON'T

1690
00:56:15,307 --> 00:56:16,742
THINK YOU MENTIONED IT AMONG

1691
00:56:16,742 --> 00:56:19,511
YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT IS

1692
00:56:19,511 --> 00:56:22,348
THERE ANY EFFORT SORT OF BACK TO

1693
00:56:22,348 --> 00:56:24,883
KELLY'S POINT, TOO, OF THE NIH

1694
00:56:24,883 --> 00:56:27,653
AS A FUNDER, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU

1695
00:56:27,653 --> 00:56:30,055
KNOW, CREATING EITHER THE TYPE

1696
00:56:30,055 --> 00:56:37,863
OF SYSTEM THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE

1697
00:56:37,863 --> 00:56:39,264
VACCINE -- COMPENSATION SYSTEM

1698
00:56:39,264 --> 00:56:41,567
OR ALLOWING INVEST GAY

1699
00:56:41,567 --> 00:56:45,070
INVESTIGATORS TO APPLY TO SOME

1700
00:56:45,070 --> 00:56:46,605
FUND OR ACCESS OF MONEY TO

1701
00:56:46,605 --> 00:56:47,473
PROVIDE THAT CARE?

1702
00:56:47,473 --> 00:56:48,006
>> THANK YOU.

1703
00:56:48,006 --> 00:56:51,744
GOOD QUESTION.

1704
00:56:51,744 --> 00:56:53,812
FIRST I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT

1705
00:56:53,812 --> 00:56:54,480
THESE RESPONSIBILITIES I THINK

1706
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,517
ARE SHARED, SO IT'S NOT JUST

1707
00:56:58,517 --> 00:57:00,285
THIS FUNDER, IT'S NOT JUST THE

1708
00:57:00,285 --> 00:57:04,990
COMPANY, IT'S NOT JUST THE

1709
00:57:04,990 --> 00:57:06,859
RESEARCHER, I THINK THERE ARE

1710
00:57:06,859 --> 00:57:07,960
SEVERAL EFFORTS IN THE FEEMED TO

1711
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:09,061
TRY TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM,

1712
00:57:09,061 --> 00:57:11,029
THERE'S MORE AWARENESS ARISING

1713
00:57:11,029 --> 00:57:13,365
AMONG COMPANIES, AMONG FUNDERS,

1714
00:57:13,365 --> 00:57:17,669
AMONG OTHERS.

1715
00:57:17,669 --> 00:57:19,204
NIH HAS CERTAIN LEGAL LIMITS,

1716
00:57:19,204 --> 00:57:20,439
LIKE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO

1717
00:57:20,439 --> 00:57:22,508
TRANSFER FUNDS AFTER A TRIAL P

1718
00:57:22,508 --> 00:57:23,909
ENDS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH POSES

1719
00:57:23,909 --> 00:57:27,780
LIMITATIONS IN WHAT WE CAN --

1720
00:57:27,780 --> 00:57:29,314
ARE ALLOWED BY LAW TO DO.

1721
00:57:29,314 --> 00:57:31,383
WE ARE LOOKING INTO IT IS WHAT I

1722
00:57:31,383 --> 00:57:31,784
CAN SAY.

1723
00:57:31,784 --> 00:57:32,584
>> GREAT.

1724
00:57:32,584 --> 00:57:34,319
WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, SASKIA,

1725
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:37,189
FOR JOINING US.

1726
00:57:37,189 --> 00:57:39,958
[APPLAUSE]

1727
00:57:39,958 --> 00:57:42,161
AND THOSE WHO ARE HERE ON CAMPUS

1728
00:57:42,161 --> 00:57:43,629
CAN HAVE YOU AS A REFERENCE

1729
00:57:43,629 --> 00:57:44,062
MOVING FORWARD.

1730
00:57:44,062 --> 00:57:45,431
THANK YOU.

1731
00:57:45,431 --> 00:57:46,832
WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT

1732
00:57:46,832 --> 00:57:47,399
PRESENTATION.

1733
00:57:47,399 --> 00:57:51,870
IT'S MY PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE

1734
00:57:51,870 --> 00:57:54,606
MARIELLE GROSS, WHO IS JOINING

1735
00:57:54,606 --> 00:57:55,641
US THIS MORNING.

1736
00:57:55,641 --> 00:57:58,010
SHE IS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF

1737
00:57:58,010 --> 00:58:01,613
BIOETHICS AND RURAL WOMEN'S

1738
00:58:01,613 --> 00:58:03,015
HEALTH AND A RURAL WOMEN'S

1739
00:58:03,015 --> 00:58:04,116
HEALTH PHYSICIAN AT THE

1740
00:58:04,116 --> 00:58:05,050
UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH AND

1741
00:58:05,050 --> 00:58:06,652
JOHNS HOPKINS, SHE STUDIES THE

1742
00:58:06,652 --> 00:58:08,720
ETHICS OF EVIDENCE, INFORMATION

1743
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,255
TECHNOLOGY AND HEALTH DATA

1744
00:58:10,255 --> 00:58:11,990
SUPPLY CHAINS THROUGH THE LENS

1745
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:14,359
OF STRUCTURAL JUSTICE.

1746
00:58:14,359 --> 00:58:16,028
SHE IS GOING TO TALK WITH US

1747
00:58:16,028 --> 00:58:18,430
TODAY ABOUT ETHICAL ISSUES

1748
00:58:18,430 --> 00:58:20,766
RELATED TO WEARABLES IN

1749
00:58:20,766 --> 00:58:21,033
RESEARCH.

1750
00:58:21,033 --> 00:58:31,543
I'LL HAND IT OVER TO MARIELLE.

1751
00:58:32,010 --> 00:58:34,880
>> THANK YOU, HOLLY.

1752
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:35,080
HELLO.

1753
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:36,949
GOOD AFTERNOON, LATE MORNING.

1754
00:58:36,949 --> 00:58:37,950
I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.

1755
00:58:37,950 --> 00:58:39,485
DOES THAT SOUND GOOD TO

1756
00:58:39,485 --> 00:58:39,785
EVERYBODY?

1757
00:58:39,785 --> 00:58:41,553
I THINK THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT

1758
00:58:41,553 --> 00:58:41,954
OF A --

1759
00:58:41,954 --> 00:58:43,455
>>> ITS PROBABLY ME,
BECAUSE I

1760
00:58:43,455 --> 00:58:45,057
HAVE A MIC, TOO, THERE WAS A

1761
00:58:45,057 --> 00:58:46,592
LITTLE FEEDBACK WHEN I STEPPED

1762
00:58:46,592 --> 00:58:46,758
UP.

1763
00:58:46,758 --> 00:58:52,397
>> OKAY.

1764
00:58:52,397 --> 00:58:53,832
I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.

1765
00:58:53,832 --> 00:58:55,868
SO BEFORE WE GET INTO TALKING

1766
00:58:55,868 --> 00:58:57,870
WITH ETHICS OF WEARABLES, I JUST

1767
00:58:57,870 --> 00:59:00,172
WANT TO MAKE TWO QUICK

1768
00:59:00,172 --> 00:59:02,441
DISCLOSURES, ISN'T WE WILL ALSO

1769
00:59:02,441 --> 00:59:04,409
GET INTO SOME OF THE SPECIFICS

1770
00:59:04,409 --> 00:59:05,077
OF THE TECHNOLOGIES.

1771
00:59:05,077 --> 00:59:06,979
ONE IS THAT IN ADDITION TO MY

1772
00:59:06,979 --> 00:59:08,714
ROLE AS A PROFESSOR, I ALSO HAVE

1773
00:59:08,714 --> 00:59:10,582
A STARTUP COMPANY THAT'S

1774
00:59:10,582 --> 00:59:12,551
FOCUSING NOT ON ANY OF WEARABLES

1775
00:59:12,551 --> 00:59:14,620
BUT ON SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGIES

1776
00:59:14,620 --> 00:59:16,488
AND THE BLOCKCHAIN SPACE THAT

1777
00:59:16,488 --> 00:59:17,990
HAVE POTENTIAL I THINK TO SOLVE

1778
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:20,092
SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN THE

1779
00:59:20,092 --> 00:59:21,727
WEARABLE SPACE, SO I WANTED TO

1780
00:59:21,727 --> 00:59:22,327
DISCLOSE THAT.

1781
00:59:22,327 --> 00:59:23,362
THE OTHER THING THAT OCCURRED TO

1782
00:59:23,362 --> 00:59:24,663
ME AS I WAS PREPARING FOR THIS

1783
00:59:24,663 --> 00:59:26,865
TALK IS THAT MY BROTHER RUNS A

1784
00:59:26,865 --> 00:59:28,834
COMPANY THAT MAKES WEARABLES,

1785
00:59:28,834 --> 00:59:30,035
CALLED INNOVATIVE EYEWEAR AND

1786
00:59:30,035 --> 00:59:31,203
IT'S A SMART GLASSES COMPANY, SO

1787
00:59:31,203 --> 00:59:32,771
I WANTED TO DISCLOSE THAT AS

1788
00:59:32,771 --> 00:59:34,640
WELL, BUT IT CAN ALSO BE A

1789
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,075
SOURCE OF SOME OF THE PERSONAL

1790
00:59:37,075 --> 00:59:38,143
EXPERIENCES THAT I'VE HAD IN

1791
00:59:38,143 --> 00:59:40,445
GROWING UP AROUND THESE

1792
00:59:40,445 --> 00:59:41,213
TECHNOLOGIES AND TRYING TO

1793
00:59:41,213 --> 00:59:43,415
FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO GOOD WITH

1794
00:59:43,415 --> 00:59:44,716
THEM, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE

1795
00:59:44,716 --> 00:59:53,025
INHERENT CHALLENGES.

1796
00:59:53,025 --> 00:59:54,993
SO THE FASCINATING THING ABOUT

1797
00:59:54,993 --> 00:59:59,264
WEARABLES IS THAT THEY'RE REALLY

1798
00:59:59,264 --> 01:00:00,599
INTERTWINED WITH THE HUMAN

1799
01:00:00,599 --> 01:00:02,401
EXPERIENCE, AND THEY DATE FAR

1800
01:00:02,401 --> 01:00:04,536
BACK BEFORE THE SORT OF DIGITAL

1801
01:00:04,536 --> 01:00:06,171
WEARABLES THAT WE TEND ON THINK

1802
01:00:06,171 --> 01:00:06,905
OF.

1803
01:00:06,905 --> 01:00:07,105
RIGHT?

1804
01:00:07,105 --> 01:00:09,341
OUR SHOES, OUR GLASSES.

1805
01:00:09,341 --> 01:00:12,077
THESE ITEMS ARE WEARABLE

1806
01:00:12,077 --> 01:00:13,946
TECHNOLOGY, AND IN FACT, THEIR

1807
01:00:13,946 --> 01:00:17,916
PERMANENCE AND EMBEDDEDNESS IN

1808
01:00:17,916 --> 01:00:19,418
OUR LIVES AND OUR EXPERIENCES

1809
01:00:19,418 --> 01:00:21,086
AND SORT OF OUR RELIANCE UPON

1810
01:00:21,086 --> 01:00:25,891
THEM, RIGHT, YOU MIGHT THINK

1811
01:00:25,891 --> 01:00:26,892
ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT WE

1812
01:00:26,892 --> 01:00:28,794
JUST TALKED ABOUT IN LIGHT OF

1813
01:00:28,794 --> 01:00:30,696
BRAIN IMPLANTS ALSO PROBABLY

1814
01:00:30,696 --> 01:00:32,898
APPLY TO GLASSES, RIGHT, WHICH

1815
01:00:32,898 --> 01:00:36,501
IS SEEMINGLY FAR LESS INVASIVE,

1816
01:00:36,501 --> 01:00:40,339
BUT SOME OF THE MORAL ATTENTIONS

1817
01:00:40,339 --> 01:00:41,974
AND BENEFITS AND RISKS ARE

1818
01:00:41,974 --> 01:00:50,549
REALLY QUITE SIMILAR.

1819
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:52,084
FUNDAMENTAL, BASIC PRINCIPLES,

1820
01:00:52,084 --> 01:00:52,851
THINKING ABOUT WEARABLES AND

1821
01:00:52,851 --> 01:00:54,186
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY,

1822
01:00:54,186 --> 01:00:55,153
WE'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT

1823
01:00:55,153 --> 01:00:56,488
ADDING TO THE FACT THAT THEY'RE

1824
01:00:56,488 --> 01:00:57,889
BEING WORN, THAT THEY'RE

1825
01:00:57,889 --> 01:00:58,857
COMPUTATIONAL DEVICES, THAT THEY

1826
01:00:58,857 --> 01:01:00,826
HAVE EMBEDDED DIGITAL

1827
01:01:00,826 --> 01:01:02,361
TECHNOLOGIES, KEY FEATURES OF

1828
01:01:02,361 --> 01:01:03,562
THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE THAT

1829
01:01:03,562 --> 01:01:06,531
THEY'RE ALWAYS THERE, THEY'RE ON

1830
01:01:06,531 --> 01:01:08,266
THE PRESENT, THEY'RE

1831
01:01:08,266 --> 01:01:09,234
CONTINUOUSLY COLLECTING DATA,

1832
01:01:09,234 --> 01:01:10,335
THEY CAN TRANSMIT THAT DATA,

1833
01:01:10,335 --> 01:01:11,770
THEY CAN USE THAT DATA FOR

1834
01:01:11,770 --> 01:01:13,205
ANALYSIS, THEY CAN HAVE OTHER

1835
01:01:13,205 --> 01:01:15,707
FEATURES THAT RELATE TO BOTH,

1836
01:01:15,707 --> 01:01:18,677
YOU KNOW, IMPUTING THAT DATA FOR

1837
01:01:18,677 --> 01:01:22,147
PREDICTION AS WELL AS FOR

1838
01:01:22,147 --> 01:01:25,450
INTERVENTIONAL PURPOSES AND

1839
01:01:25,450 --> 01:01:26,551
TYPICALLY AND CERTAINLY MOST

1840
01:01:26,551 --> 01:01:28,286
COMMONLY RESEARCH CONTEXTS THESE

1841
01:01:28,286 --> 01:01:29,721
WEARABLES ARE TYPICALLY THIRD

1842
01:01:29,721 --> 01:01:30,722
PARTY CONSUMER ELECTRONICS,

1843
01:01:30,722 --> 01:01:32,457
ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES ALSO MEDICAL

1844
01:01:32,457 --> 01:01:33,325
DEVICES, AND I THINK THAT

1845
01:01:33,325 --> 01:01:34,760
THERE'S A REALLY IMPORTANT

1846
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:44,069
DISTINCTION THAT WE'LL GET INTO.

1847
01:01:44,069 --> 01:01:46,238
SO I THOUGHT TO THINK ABOUT

1848
01:01:46,238 --> 01:01:47,339
WEARABLES REALLY DEEPLY AND

1849
01:01:47,339 --> 01:01:48,740
ETHICALLY ABOUT HOW WE'RE DOING

1850
01:01:48,740 --> 01:01:49,875
RESEARCH ON WEARABLES, I THOUGHT

1851
01:01:49,875 --> 01:01:51,043
WE COULD STEP BACK AND THINK

1852
01:01:51,043 --> 01:01:52,577
ABOUT, WHAT DOES IT MEAN REALLY

1853
01:01:52,577 --> 01:01:57,516
TO WEAR SOMETHING AND TO HAVE IT

1854
01:01:57,516 --> 01:01:58,183
ON YOURSELF?

1855
01:01:58,183 --> 01:01:59,818
THESE ARE THE STANDARD

1856
01:01:59,818 --> 01:02:00,786
DEFINITIONS, YOU KNOW, TO CARRY

1857
01:02:00,786 --> 01:02:02,454
OR TO HAVE ON ONE'S PERSON, I

1858
01:02:02,454 --> 01:02:04,322
THINK CRITICALLY AS A COVERING

1859
01:02:04,322 --> 01:02:07,025
SHES AN ADORNMENT OR AS

1860
01:02:07,025 --> 01:02:08,560
PROTECTION -- COVERING, AS AN

1861
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:09,895
ADORNMENT OR AS PROTECTION.

1862
01:02:09,895 --> 01:02:11,296
SOMETHING TO BE CARRIED

1863
01:02:11,296 --> 01:02:13,065
HABITUALLY ON OUR PERSON, LIKE

1864
01:02:13,065 --> 01:02:14,266
WE WEAR GLASSES, AND SOMETHING

1865
01:02:14,266 --> 01:02:17,135
TO DISPLAY ON ONE'S APPEARANCE

1866
01:02:17,135 --> 01:02:19,404
AS IN TO WEAR A SMILE.

1867
01:02:19,404 --> 01:02:20,405
INTERESTINGLY IN REALLY THINKING

1868
01:02:20,405 --> 01:02:21,740
ABOUT THIS AND SOME OF THE

1869
01:02:21,740 --> 01:02:23,141
ETHICAL CHALLENGES INJURED LYING

1870
01:02:23,141 --> 01:02:25,343
RESEARCH AND ETHICS AROUND

1871
01:02:25,343 --> 01:02:28,747
WEARABLES, THERE'S ANOTHER

1872
01:02:28,747 --> 01:02:31,149
IMPORTANT NEENG THE WORD --

1873
01:02:31,149 --> 01:02:32,684
NEENG THE WORD TO WEAR, AND THAT

1874
01:02:32,684 --> 01:02:34,820
IS REALLY TO WEAR DOWN OR TO

1875
01:02:34,820 --> 01:02:36,621
ERODE AND I THINK THERE'S A

1876
01:02:36,621 --> 01:02:37,622
REALLY POWERFUL INTERPLAY

1877
01:02:37,622 --> 01:02:41,126
BETWEEN THESE CONCEPTS OF BOTH

1878
01:02:41,126 --> 01:02:42,527
ENHANCEMENT, PROTECTION, ALMOST

1879
01:02:42,527 --> 01:02:45,130
AS AN ARMOR, RIGHT, OUR SHOES

1880
01:02:45,130 --> 01:02:46,565
ARE A WEARABLE THAT PROTECT US

1881
01:02:46,565 --> 01:02:48,767
AS WE GO AROUND THE WORLD, AND

1882
01:02:48,767 --> 01:02:50,836
YET HOW WEARING ON SOMEBODY CAN

1883
01:02:50,836 --> 01:02:52,804
ALSO BREAK THEM DOWN AND CAN

1884
01:02:52,804 --> 01:02:55,540
TAKE AWAY AND BE A WAY OF SORT

1885
01:02:55,540 --> 01:02:57,843
OF SUBLGHTSLY AND OVER TIME --

1886
01:02:57,843 --> 01:03:00,011
SUBTLY AND OVER TIME DIMINISHING

1887
01:03:00,011 --> 01:03:01,880
CERTAIN FEATURES LIKE AUTONOMY

1888
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:07,185
AND POWER.

1889
01:03:07,185 --> 01:03:08,820
SO TO FRAME OUR DISCUSSION, I

1890
01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:14,726
THINK THERE'S REALLY THREE KEY

1891
01:03:14,726 --> 01:03:16,261
TAXONOMIES OF WEARABLE DEVICES

1892
01:03:16,261 --> 01:03:18,130
IN A DIGITAL CONTEXT THAT I LIKE

1893
01:03:18,130 --> 01:03:18,997
TO THINK ABOUT.

1894
01:03:18,997 --> 01:03:22,834
THE FIRST ONE RELIES ON

1895
01:03:22,834 --> 01:03:23,802
LOCATION, LIKE LOCATION,

1896
01:03:23,802 --> 01:03:25,337
LOCATION, LOCATION, THAT'S THE

1897
01:03:25,337 --> 01:03:27,305
GPS TRACKER THAT'S IN ALL OF OUR

1898
01:03:27,305 --> 01:03:28,640
PHONES, WE MIGHT SAY WE'RE

1899
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,375
WEARING IT NOW IF WE HAVE OUR

1900
01:03:30,375 --> 01:03:32,344
SMARTPHONES IN OUR POCKETS.

1901
01:03:32,344 --> 01:03:33,979
THESE ARE APPS, THEY COULD BE

1902
01:03:33,979 --> 01:03:36,948
ANKLE AND WRIST BRACELETS

1903
01:03:36,948 --> 01:03:38,150
TRADITIONALLY FOR KEEPING A PET

1904
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:40,552
OR A PRISONER IN A CERTAIN

1905
01:03:40,552 --> 01:03:43,288
LOCATION, THOSE ARE WEARABLE

1906
01:03:43,288 --> 01:03:45,490
DEVICES, THEY CAN TRANSMIT

1907
01:03:45,490 --> 01:03:46,591
GEOLOCATION, TYPICALLY TO THIRD

1908
01:03:46,591 --> 01:03:48,226
PARTIES WHO MIGHT ENFORCE SOME

1909
01:03:48,226 --> 01:03:50,328
SORT OF PARAMETERS OR MIGHT USE

1910
01:03:50,328 --> 01:03:53,732
THAT INFORMATION ON INFORM HOW

1911
01:03:53,732 --> 01:03:57,002
THEY POLICE THAT PERSON'S

1912
01:03:57,002 --> 01:03:59,070
ACTIVITY H ANOTHER MAJOR

1913
01:03:59,070 --> 01:04:01,573
CATEGORY IS IN BIOMETRIC

1914
01:04:01,573 --> 01:04:01,907
SURVEILLANCE.

1915
01:04:01,907 --> 01:04:04,976
SO THESE ARE THE TECHNOLOGIES

1916
01:04:04,976 --> 01:04:05,944
HIGHLY ADVANCED ESPECIALLY OVER

1917
01:04:05,944 --> 01:04:07,379
THE PAST FIVE YEARS AND I THINK

1918
01:04:07,379 --> 01:04:09,815
WE CAN ANTICIPATE THE NEXT FIVE

1919
01:04:09,815 --> 01:04:12,117
YEARS AS OUR SENSOR TECHNOLOGY

1920
01:04:12,117 --> 01:04:12,450
ADVANCES.

1921
01:04:12,450 --> 01:04:14,853
THESE ARE CAPTURING BIOMETRIC

1922
01:04:14,853 --> 01:04:16,822
BIOLOGICAL DATA THAT CAN BE

1923
01:04:16,822 --> 01:04:17,889
ELECTRONIC, ELECTRIC DATA, LIKE

1924
01:04:17,889 --> 01:04:19,791
A HEART RATE, IT CAN ALSO BE

1925
01:04:19,791 --> 01:04:21,626
CHEMICAL AND CHEMICALLY SENSED

1926
01:04:21,626 --> 01:04:23,161
AND WHETHER THAT'S, YOU KNOW,

1927
01:04:23,161 --> 01:04:25,797
FROM THE SWEAT ON YOUR SKIN OR

1928
01:04:25,797 --> 01:04:28,633
FROM A SMALL AMOUNT OF BLOOD

1929
01:04:28,633 --> 01:04:32,070
THAT CAN JUST PROVIDE A CHEMO

1930
01:04:32,070 --> 01:04:38,410
SENSATION TO DETECT DIFFERENT

1931
01:04:38,410 --> 01:04:39,845
ANALITE SNRKS YOUR BLOOD, THESE

1932
01:04:39,845 --> 01:04:41,046
ARE BIOLOGICAL DATA ABOUT THAT

1933
01:04:41,046 --> 01:04:42,147
YOU'RE BEING SENSED.

1934
01:04:42,147 --> 01:04:43,315
THEN THERE'S THIS THIRD

1935
01:04:43,315 --> 01:04:44,749
CATEGORY, WHICH INCLUDES VIDEOS,

1936
01:04:44,749 --> 01:04:47,919
IMAGES AND AUDIO CAP CAPTURE,

1937
01:04:47,919 --> 01:04:50,121
RANGING FROM THINGS LIKE BODY

1938
01:04:50,121 --> 01:04:51,423
CAMERAS, THE SMART GLASSES LIKE

1939
01:04:51,423 --> 01:04:53,458
I WAS DESCRIBING MY BROTHER'S

1940
01:04:53,458 --> 01:04:53,692
COMPANY.

1941
01:04:53,692 --> 01:04:55,994
THESE ARE REALLY CAPTURING, I

1942
01:04:55,994 --> 01:04:57,095
WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS, HAD

1943
01:04:57,095 --> 01:05:00,365
IT'S NOT JUST SENSING YOU, BUT

1944
01:05:00,365 --> 01:05:02,534
SENSING WHAT YOU SENSE AND

1945
01:05:02,534 --> 01:05:04,936
SENSING YOUR BOTH BEHAVIORAL AND

1946
01:05:04,936 --> 01:05:05,537
SOCIOLOGICAL CONTEXT.

1947
01:05:05,537 --> 01:05:07,138
SO THESE ARE SORT OF THREE

1948
01:05:07,138 --> 01:05:08,573
DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS, AND OF

1949
01:05:08,573 --> 01:05:09,975
COURSE MANY DEVICES WILL SEEK TO

1950
01:05:09,975 --> 01:05:12,277
AND IN SOME WAYS COMBINE

1951
01:05:12,277 --> 01:05:13,478
DIFFERENT COMPONENTS ALONG THIS

1952
01:05:13,478 --> 01:05:15,447
SORT OF TAXONOMY, BUT I THINK

1953
01:05:15,447 --> 01:05:17,749
WHEN WE'RE CONSIDERING THE

1954
01:05:17,749 --> 01:05:19,284
ETHICAL IMPLICATIONS AS WELL AS

1955
01:05:19,284 --> 01:05:20,919
THE RISKS AND POTENTIAL BENEFITS

1956
01:05:20,919 --> 01:05:22,354
OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES, REALLY

1957
01:05:22,354 --> 01:05:23,989
THINKING ABOUT THEM ALONG THESE

1958
01:05:23,989 --> 01:05:30,095
THREE LINES CAN BE HELPFUL.

1959
01:05:30,095 --> 01:05:32,063
NOW, I SHOULD SAY BEFORE WE GET

1960
01:05:32,063 --> 01:05:36,001
INTO ANY MORE ETHICAL

1961
01:05:36,001 --> 01:05:37,535
CONSIDERATIONS AND CONCERNS

1962
01:05:37,535 --> 01:05:39,738
PERHAPS THAT I'LL RAISE, I THINK

1963
01:05:39,738 --> 01:05:44,309
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE

1964
01:05:44,309 --> 01:05:46,411
THE SUBSTANTIAL EXPANSION OF

1965
01:05:46,411 --> 01:05:49,481
WEARABLE TECHNOLOGIES OR SORT OF

1966
01:05:49,481 --> 01:05:51,082
DIGITALLY IMBUED WEARABLE

1967
01:05:51,082 --> 01:05:52,517
TECHNOLOGIES HA WE'RE ALREADY

1968
01:05:52,517 --> 01:05:54,486
EXPERIENCING AND THAT WE CAN

1969
01:05:54,486 --> 01:05:55,921
ANTICIPATE CONTINUING TO

1970
01:05:55,921 --> 01:05:56,221
EXPERIENCE.

1971
01:05:56,221 --> 01:05:59,024
SO FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR, FOR

1972
01:05:59,024 --> 01:06:00,959
THE FIRST TIME, MORE

1973
01:06:00,959 --> 01:06:03,929
SMARTWATCHES WERE SOLD THAN

1974
01:06:03,929 --> 01:06:04,296
NONSMARTWATCHES.

1975
01:06:04,296 --> 01:06:07,632
AND IN FACT, APPLE SOLD MORE

1976
01:06:07,632 --> 01:06:11,503
WATCHES THAN ALL OF SWITZERLAND.

1977
01:06:11,503 --> 01:06:13,238
THIS IS REALLY TREMENDOUSLY

1978
01:06:13,238 --> 01:06:15,440
IMPACTFUL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT

1979
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,177
HOW THESE TECHNOLOGIES, WHEN

1980
01:06:19,177 --> 01:06:21,046
THEY'RE REALLY CRITICALLY WHEN

1981
01:06:21,046 --> 01:06:22,814
THEIR FORM FACTOR IS RIGHT AND

1982
01:06:22,814 --> 01:06:24,749
WHEN THEY'RE CULTURALLY

1983
01:06:24,749 --> 01:06:25,951
APPROPRIATED BY PEOPLE, HOW

1984
01:06:25,951 --> 01:06:27,285
RAPIDLY THEY CAN REALLY BE

1985
01:06:27,285 --> 01:06:28,586
ADOPTED, RIGHT?

1986
01:06:28,586 --> 01:06:29,788
SMARTWATCHES WERE NOT A NEW

1987
01:06:29,788 --> 01:06:31,323
THING LAST YEAR.

1988
01:06:31,323 --> 01:06:33,525
IT WAS JUST THE PAST COUPLE OF

1989
01:06:33,525 --> 01:06:35,393
YEARS THERE'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS

1990
01:06:35,393 --> 01:06:38,229
UPTICK IN THEIR ADOPTION AND

1991
01:06:38,229 --> 01:06:39,197
NORMALIZATION WHEN YOU GET

1992
01:06:39,197 --> 01:06:41,199
SOMETHING LIKE A WATCH THAT'S

1993
01:06:41,199 --> 01:06:43,501
BEEN AROUND FOR MANY, MANY YEARS

1994
01:06:43,501 --> 01:06:45,036
AND YOU IMBUE IT WITH NEW

1995
01:06:45,036 --> 01:06:46,905
TECHNOLOGIES THAT CAN BE

1996
01:06:46,905 --> 01:06:48,640
EMPOWERED BY SMALLER AND LIGHTER

1997
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,409
BATTERIES AND MORE SORT OF

1998
01:06:51,409 --> 01:06:53,378
COMPUTING, YOU KNOW, THE ABILITY

1999
01:06:53,378 --> 01:06:56,047
TO DO PRETTY ADVANCED COMPUTING

2000
01:06:56,047 --> 01:06:57,849
IN A SMALL DISTRIBUTED DEVICE

2001
01:06:57,849 --> 01:06:59,617
HAS DRAMATICALLY CHANGED.  SO

2002
01:06:59,617 --> 01:07:01,386
FOR THAT REASON, WE THINK ABOUT

2003
01:07:01,386 --> 01:07:02,787
THE IMPACT ON THE WATCH

2004
01:07:02,787 --> 01:07:03,888
INDUSTRY, RIGHT, MANY PEOPLE

2005
01:07:03,888 --> 01:07:04,990
DON'T WEAR WATCHES ANYMORE

2006
01:07:04,990 --> 01:07:06,291
BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED THEM TO

2007
01:07:06,291 --> 01:07:08,927
TELL TIME, AND INDEED, PEOPLE

2008
01:07:08,927 --> 01:07:10,462
WHO WEAR SMARTWATCHES OFTEN

2009
01:07:10,462 --> 01:07:11,963
AREN'T USING THEM TO TELL TIME.

2010
01:07:11,963 --> 01:07:13,932
THEY'RE USING THEM FOR THEIR

2011
01:07:13,932 --> 01:07:15,100
OTHER FUNCTIONALITY, FOR THE

2012
01:07:15,100 --> 01:07:16,134
DATA THAT THEY CAN GET FROM

2013
01:07:16,134 --> 01:07:16,501
THEM.

2014
01:07:16,501 --> 01:07:18,903
SO I KIND OF GO INTO THIS WHOLE,

2015
01:07:18,903 --> 01:07:21,406
YOU KNOW, CONTEXT OF THE

2016
01:07:21,406 --> 01:07:24,909
SMARTWATCH BECAUSE THESE DEVICES

2017
01:07:24,909 --> 01:07:26,978
ARE GOING TO BE MAJOR IN TERMS

2018
01:07:26,978 --> 01:07:28,947
OF THE NEXT TEN TO TWENTY YEARS

2019
01:07:28,947 --> 01:07:30,815
IN TERMS OF LIKE IF WE THINK

2020
01:07:30,815 --> 01:07:32,884
ABOUT ALL OF OUR WEARABLES, ALL

2021
01:07:32,884 --> 01:07:35,220
OF OUR TRADITIONAL WEARABLES

2022
01:07:35,220 --> 01:07:36,955
BECOMING SMART DEVICES OR HAVING

2023
01:07:36,955 --> 01:07:39,157
THE ABILITY TO BE SMART DEVICES,

2024
01:07:39,157 --> 01:07:40,458
THE IMPLICATIONS AND THE

2025
01:07:40,458 --> 01:07:41,993
SIGNIFICANCE OF BOTH WHAT WE CAN

2026
01:07:41,993 --> 01:07:43,028
LEARN AND THE POWER OF WHAT WE

2027
01:07:43,028 --> 01:07:44,629
CAN LEARN FROM THAT INFORMATION

2028
01:07:44,629 --> 01:07:47,265
TO HELP PEOPLE TO ADVANCE

2029
01:07:47,265 --> 01:07:48,033
RESEARCH, THIS IS REALLY

2030
01:07:48,033 --> 01:07:49,768
CRITICAL TOO.

2031
01:07:49,768 --> 01:07:51,136
SO WHILE WHEN YOU'RE PRESENTING

2032
01:07:51,136 --> 01:07:52,837
ON THE ETHICS AND THE

2033
01:07:52,837 --> 01:07:53,805
CHALLENGES, I THINK THAT THAT

2034
01:07:53,805 --> 01:07:57,275
CAN GET LOST, AND I THINK IT'S

2035
01:07:57,275 --> 01:07:59,611
REALLY CRITICAL THAT THEY WI --

2036
01:07:59,611 --> 01:08:00,845
THAT WE THINK ABOUT THE DESIGN

2037
01:08:00,845 --> 01:08:02,914
AND THE TECHNOLOGY ENABLEMENTS

2038
01:08:02,914 --> 01:08:06,184
OF WEARABLE TECHNOLOGY TO -- AS

2039
01:08:06,184 --> 01:08:07,018
A REALLY IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY

2040
01:08:07,018 --> 01:08:09,554
AND ONE THAT'S NOT

2041
01:08:09,554 --> 01:08:10,221
UNCOMPLICATED, AND I THINK

2042
01:08:10,221 --> 01:08:11,656
CERTAINLY WHEN WE COMPARE TO

2043
01:08:11,656 --> 01:08:13,958
WHAT SOME PEOPLE WILL CALL AN

2044
01:08:13,958 --> 01:08:16,027
INSIDABLE, LIKE A BRAIN

2045
01:08:16,027 --> 01:08:18,329
IMPLANTED DEVICE, A WEARABLE,

2046
01:08:18,329 --> 01:08:20,532
WHICH HAS INHERENTLY MUCH LESS

2047
01:08:20,532 --> 01:08:24,569
FRICTION TO BE ADOPTED, HAS A

2048
01:08:24,569 --> 01:08:26,671
POTENTIAL FOR FAR GREATER AND

2049
01:08:26,671 --> 01:08:31,910
MORE SORT OF DISTRIBUTION AND

2050
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:33,678
IMPLEMENTATION BECAUSE YOU DON'T

2051
01:08:33,678 --> 01:08:35,613
NEED A NEUROSURGERY TEAM AND A

2052
01:08:35,613 --> 01:08:40,318
NEUROLOGICAL TEAM, AND IT'S A

2053
01:08:40,318 --> 01:08:41,920
LOT EASIER TO APPLY THESE THINGS

2054
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:43,455
AND IN FACT THAT'S PART OF THEIR

2055
01:08:43,455 --> 01:08:43,688
DESIGN.

2056
01:08:43,688 --> 01:08:47,358
SO THINKING ABOUT THE DESIGN OF

2057
01:08:47,358 --> 01:08:48,593
WEARABLES IS REALLY I THINK

2058
01:08:48,593 --> 01:08:50,128
WHERE THE ETHICS HAVE TO CENTER

2059
01:08:50,128 --> 01:08:57,068
ON THE DESIGN BECAUSE WEARABLES

2060
01:08:57,068 --> 01:08:58,536
ARE IN MANY WAYS DESIGNED TO BE

2061
01:08:58,536 --> 01:09:00,772
EASY TO APPLY WITH A FORM FACTOR

2062
01:09:00,772 --> 01:09:03,708
THAT MATCHES THE HUMAN BODY AND

2063
01:09:03,708 --> 01:09:05,009
OUR ERGONOMICS AND DYNAMICS OF

2064
01:09:05,009 --> 01:09:09,280
OUR MOVEMENTS, AND THEIR SUCCESS

2065
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:11,483
IS REALLY PARALLELED WITH HOW

2066
01:09:11,483 --> 01:09:13,218
COMFORTABLY AND EASY WE CAN PUT

2067
01:09:13,218 --> 01:09:15,854
THEM ON, AND AT THE SAME TIME,

2068
01:09:15,854 --> 01:09:19,124
YOU KNOW, WHEN DONE WELL, THEY

2069
01:09:19,124 --> 01:09:20,225
RECEDE INTO THE BACKGROUND AND

2070
01:09:20,225 --> 01:09:21,359
YOU FORGET THAT THEY'RE THERE.

2071
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:23,061
SO WHILE THE FRICTION TO SORT OF

2072
01:09:23,061 --> 01:09:25,797
ADOPT THEM MIGHT BE SOMEWHAT

2073
01:09:25,797 --> 01:09:26,998
LOW, WHEN THEY'RE DESIGNED

2074
01:09:26,998 --> 01:09:28,333
RIGHT, WE FORGET THAT WE'RE

2075
01:09:28,333 --> 01:09:29,968
WEARING THEM OR THEY JUST BECOME

2076
01:09:29,968 --> 01:09:31,936
IN MANY WAYS SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU

2077
01:09:31,936 --> 01:09:34,105
WOULD CONSIDER FOR AN IMPLANTED

2078
01:09:34,105 --> 01:09:36,307
DEVICE PART OF THAT PERSON AND

2079
01:09:36,307 --> 01:09:41,112
REALLY, YOU KNOW, I TAKE

2080
01:09:41,112 --> 01:09:43,548
SERIOUSLY MARSHA McCLUNE'S

2081
01:09:43,548 --> 01:09:44,749
ASSESSMENT THAT THESE

2082
01:09:44,749 --> 01:09:45,950
TECHNOLOGIES BECOME AN EXTENSION

2083
01:09:45,950 --> 01:09:46,918
OF OURSELVES, WHETHER THEY'RE

2084
01:09:46,918 --> 01:09:48,586
INSIDE OF OUR BODIES OR SIMPLY

2085
01:09:48,586 --> 01:09:49,454
APPLIED ON THE OUTSIDE OR

2086
01:09:49,454 --> 01:09:51,189
SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN AS SOME OF

2087
01:09:51,189 --> 01:09:53,391
OUR, YOU KNOW, DEVICES IN THE

2088
01:09:53,391 --> 01:09:57,996
GYNECOLOGICAL SPACE MIGHT BE

2089
01:09:57,996 --> 01:10:00,198
CONSIDERED SO WE HAVE THESE

2090
01:10:00,198 --> 01:10:01,499
THREE TAXON MS. ON THE TYPES OF

2091
01:10:01,499 --> 01:10:02,467
DATA THAT ARE BEING COLLECTED

2092
01:10:02,467 --> 01:10:04,702
AND THERE'S THREE REALLY I THINK

2093
01:10:04,702 --> 01:10:05,904
KEY ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS,

2094
01:10:05,904 --> 01:10:09,941
THEY'RE ALL WEAVING INTO ONE

2095
01:10:09,941 --> 01:10:11,242
ANOTHER AND THERE'S

2096
01:10:11,242 --> 01:10:12,110
CORRESPONDING DESIGN FEATURES WE

2097
01:10:12,110 --> 01:10:13,311
CAN THINK ABOUT TO FRAME THE

2098
01:10:13,311 --> 01:10:18,383
REST OF OUR CONVERSATION.

2099
01:10:18,383 --> 01:10:20,485
THE FIRST IS PRIVACY AND

2100
01:10:20,485 --> 01:10:21,986
AUTONOMY AND I THINK THIS IS

2101
01:10:21,986 --> 01:10:23,688
REALLY WHERE I WILL LEAD THE

2102
01:10:23,688 --> 01:10:24,656
CONVERSATION TOWARDS ANGD OF

2103
01:10:24,656 --> 01:10:26,191
WEARABLE DEVICES AS SORT OF

2104
01:10:26,191 --> 01:10:27,325
DECEPTIVELY INVASIVE.

2105
01:10:27,325 --> 01:10:29,694
AGAIN, BY DESIGN.

2106
01:10:29,694 --> 01:10:31,129
THEY'RE SEEMINGLY EASY TO PUT

2107
01:10:31,129 --> 01:10:35,066
ON, AND YET THEY SEEM LIKE

2108
01:10:35,066 --> 01:10:35,867
NONINVASIVE, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU

2109
01:10:35,867 --> 01:10:39,003
COMPARE THEM TO SOMETHING LIKE A

2110
01:10:39,003 --> 01:10:42,507
BRAIN SURGERY AND YET I THINK

2111
01:10:42,507 --> 01:10:43,374
THERE'S IMPORTANT WAYS IN WHICH

2112
01:10:43,374 --> 01:10:45,009
WE CAN CONSIDER THEM AS

2113
01:10:45,009 --> 01:10:46,344
POTENTIALLY MORE INVASIVE

2114
01:10:46,344 --> 01:10:47,645
DEPENDING ON WHAT KIND OF DATA

2115
01:10:47,645 --> 01:10:50,481
THEY'RE COLLECTING AND FOR HOW

2116
01:10:50,481 --> 01:10:53,017
LONG AND HOW THAT DATA MIGHT BE

2117
01:10:53,017 --> 01:10:53,218
USED.

2118
01:10:53,218 --> 01:10:55,320
SO THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF PRIVACY

2119
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:56,821
AND AUTONOMY, ESPECIALLY WHEN

2120
01:10:56,821 --> 01:10:58,356
YOU CONSIDER HISTORICAL CONTEXT

2121
01:10:58,356 --> 01:11:00,992
OF WEARABLES BEING USED TO

2122
01:11:00,992 --> 01:11:02,961
CONTROL PEOPLE'S AUTONOMY, THIS

2123
01:11:02,961 --> 01:11:05,463
IS NOT ZUS A POLITICAL SENSE --

2124
01:11:05,463 --> 01:11:06,664
THIS IS NOT JUST IN A POLITICAL

2125
01:11:06,664 --> 01:11:07,932
SENSE BUT ALSO IN A PANDEMIC

2126
01:11:07,932 --> 01:11:10,101
SENSE OR IN A NUMBER OF OTHER

2127
01:11:10,101 --> 01:11:11,202
CONTEXTS, THE POTENTIAL FOR

2128
01:11:11,202 --> 01:11:14,906
THESE DEVICES TO ESSENTIALLY

2129
01:11:14,906 --> 01:11:17,008
INTRUDE ON IN THE BACKGROUND OF

2130
01:11:17,008 --> 01:11:19,644
ALL ACTIVITIES IS REALLY

2131
01:11:19,644 --> 01:11:19,944
SUBSTANTIAL.

2132
01:11:19,944 --> 01:11:21,379
THIS IS BY THEIR NATURE, AND

2133
01:11:21,379 --> 01:11:22,480
AGAIN, WHEN THEY'RE DESIGNED

2134
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:23,915
RIGHT, THEY DO THIS REALLY WELL,

2135
01:11:23,915 --> 01:11:25,550
AND WE FORGET THAT THEY'RE

2136
01:11:25,550 --> 01:11:25,750
THERE.

2137
01:11:25,750 --> 01:11:29,220
IN FACT, ONE OF THE DOWNSIDES OF

2138
01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:30,688
SOME OF THE APPLICATIONS OF

2139
01:11:30,688 --> 01:11:31,556
THESE TECHNOLOGIES HAS BEEN IN

2140
01:11:31,556 --> 01:11:33,992
PEOPLE SIMPLY REMOVING THINGS OR

2141
01:11:33,992 --> 01:11:35,727
PERHAPS FOR GETTING THAT THEY,

2142
01:11:35,727 --> 01:11:36,961
YOU KNOW, IF THEIR SMARTPHONE IS

2143
01:11:36,961 --> 01:11:38,229
THE WEARABLE, IT'S EASY TO LEAVE

2144
01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:39,397
THAT ON A COUNTER AND WALK OUT

2145
01:11:39,397 --> 01:11:40,865
OF THE ROOM, AND THAT TELLS YOU

2146
01:11:40,865 --> 01:11:42,834
SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT WE CAN

2147
01:11:42,834 --> 01:11:44,569
ANTICIPATE WITH THE FUTURE OF

2148
01:11:44,569 --> 01:11:47,105
MOBILE COMPUTING DEVICES BEING

2149
01:11:47,105 --> 01:11:48,506
MORE TOWARDS WEARABLES AND LESS

2150
01:11:48,506 --> 01:11:49,907
TOWARDS THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT

2151
01:11:49,907 --> 01:11:51,643
YOU COULD LEAVE ON A COUNTER.

2152
01:11:51,643 --> 01:11:53,778
THEY WANT IT ON OUR BODIES AS

2153
01:11:53,778 --> 01:11:55,413
MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO, AGAIN,

2154
01:11:55,413 --> 01:11:56,614
MAXIMIZE THE POE TECIALG FOR

2155
01:11:56,614 --> 01:11:58,483
BENEFIT AND TO COLLECT --

2156
01:11:58,483 --> 01:12:00,118
POTENTIAL FOR BENEFIT AND TO

2157
01:12:00,118 --> 01:12:01,452
COLLECT DATA PASSIVELY AND AT

2158
01:12:01,452 --> 01:12:03,388
THE SAME TIME MAXIMIZING THE

2159
01:12:03,388 --> 01:12:05,290
INTRUSIVENESS AND THE SORT OF

2160
01:12:05,290 --> 01:12:07,358
POTENTIAL FOR INVASION INTO OUR

2161
01:12:07,358 --> 01:12:10,295
PRIVATE LIVES.

2162
01:12:10,295 --> 01:12:12,163
THE SECOND WHOLE CATEGORY I

2163
01:12:12,163 --> 01:12:15,099
CONSIDER EMBEDDED BIAS.

2164
01:12:15,099 --> 01:12:17,869
SO THIS IS A STRUCTURALLY BUILT

2165
01:12:17,869 --> 01:12:19,437
IN FEATURE THAT CAN BE BOTH ON

2166
01:12:19,437 --> 01:12:22,440
THE LEVEL OF A DEVICE ITSELF, AS

2167
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:24,509
IN WHO IT WAS BUILT FOR, FOR

2168
01:12:24,509 --> 01:12:26,177
WHAT PURPOSE, AND WHO WAS PAYING

2169
01:12:26,177 --> 01:12:29,547
FOR THAT TO BE BUILT AND

2170
01:12:29,547 --> 01:12:29,881
IMPLEMENTED.

2171
01:12:29,881 --> 01:12:31,316
ALSO EMBEDDED IN THE PROCESS OF

2172
01:12:31,316 --> 01:12:33,718
HOW THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE

2173
01:12:33,718 --> 01:12:33,985
VALIDATED.

2174
01:12:33,985 --> 01:12:35,787
SO TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE'S

2175
01:12:35,787 --> 01:12:38,089
SCIENCE BEHIND THEM, WHETHER

2176
01:12:38,089 --> 01:12:40,191
THEY ARE A MEDICAL DEVICE OR A

2177
01:12:40,191 --> 01:12:41,592
CONSUMER ELECTRONIC, THERE'S

2178
01:12:41,592 --> 01:12:43,127
SCIENCE BEHIND THESE DEVICES,

2179
01:12:43,127 --> 01:12:45,630
WHO WERE THEY TESTED ON?

2180
01:12:45,630 --> 01:12:47,432
WHOSE BENEFITS WERE THEY PROVEN

2181
01:12:47,432 --> 01:12:47,632
FOR?

2182
01:12:47,632 --> 01:12:50,668
WHOSE SAFETY WERE THEY PROVEN

2183
01:12:50,668 --> 01:12:50,835
FOR?

2184
01:12:50,835 --> 01:12:54,872
HOW EFFICACIOUS ARE THEY AND

2185
01:12:54,872 --> 01:12:56,174
CONSIDERATIONS AROUND BOTH THE

2186
01:12:56,174 --> 01:12:59,677
QUALITY OF THE EVIDENCE AND THE

2187
01:12:59,677 --> 01:13:01,312
REQUIREMENTS FOR, YOU KNOW,

2188
01:13:01,312 --> 01:13:02,814
WHAT'S EVIDENCE, TRULY

2189
01:13:02,814 --> 01:13:04,615
EVIDENCE-BASED ABOUT THESE

2190
01:13:04,615 --> 01:13:05,817
TECHNOLOGIES, AS WELL AS THEIR

2191
01:13:05,817 --> 01:13:08,019
SOCIOLOGICAL AND POTENTIALLY

2192
01:13:08,019 --> 01:13:10,088
POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES WHICH

2193
01:13:10,088 --> 01:13:13,791
ALSO MIGHT BURDEN PEOPLE IN A

2194
01:13:13,791 --> 01:13:16,327
NONEQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED MANNER.

2195
01:13:16,327 --> 01:13:18,396
SORT OF BUILDING ON THAT AND

2196
01:13:18,396 --> 01:13:20,164
EXTENDING INTO ANOTHER CATEGORY

2197
01:13:20,164 --> 01:13:23,301
OF REALLY POWER ASYMMETRY, BEING

2198
01:13:23,301 --> 01:13:24,969
AN ESSENTIAL ETHICAL CONCERN

2199
01:13:24,969 --> 01:13:26,104
THAT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IN

2200
01:13:26,104 --> 01:13:27,739
THE DESIGN OF THESE DEVICES AS

2201
01:13:27,739 --> 01:13:28,673
WELL AS IN THE RESEARCH THAT WE

2202
01:13:28,673 --> 01:13:30,875
DO WITH THEM HAS TO DO WITH

2203
01:13:30,875 --> 01:13:31,676
POWER ASYMMETRY.

2204
01:13:31,676 --> 01:13:34,579
WHEN YOU'RE THE PERSON WEARING

2205
01:13:34,579 --> 01:13:36,881
THE DEVICE AND YOU'RE NOT THE

2206
01:13:36,881 --> 01:13:37,849
PERSON WHO OWNS THE DATA THAT

2207
01:13:37,849 --> 01:13:39,517
COMES FROM THAT DEVICE, THERE'S

2208
01:13:39,517 --> 01:13:40,718
A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN

2209
01:13:40,718 --> 01:13:42,353
TERMS OF WHAT YOU'RE ABLE TO

2210
01:13:42,353 --> 01:13:44,756
GAIN AND WHAT YOU'RE ABLE TO --

2211
01:13:44,756 --> 01:13:47,492
WHAT BENEFITS YOU PROVIDE THOSE

2212
01:13:47,492 --> 01:13:49,594
WHO ARE OBTAINING THE DATA AND

2213
01:13:49,594 --> 01:13:50,661
WHAT BENEFITS YOU'RE RECEIVING

2214
01:13:50,661 --> 01:13:52,096
AND WHO HAS CONTROL OVER THAT

2215
01:13:52,096 --> 01:13:53,865
DATA, WHO HAS ACCESS TO THAT

2216
01:13:53,865 --> 01:13:55,800
DATA, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE

2217
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:56,934
SIGNIFICANT TO THE PRIOR

2218
01:13:56,934 --> 01:13:58,269
QUESTIONS AROUND WHO IS PAYING

2219
01:13:58,269 --> 01:14:00,438
FOR THESE DEVICES TO BE BUILT

2220
01:14:00,438 --> 01:14:02,206
AND IMPLEMENTED AND WHO IS

2221
01:14:02,206 --> 01:14:04,509
BENEFITING FROM THEM, BUT ALSO

2222
01:14:04,509 --> 01:14:06,611
REALLY SIGNIFICANT FOR, YOU

2223
01:14:06,611 --> 01:14:08,146
KNOW, LONG-TERM I THINK SOCIAL

2224
01:14:08,146 --> 01:14:14,485
JUSTICE IN TERMS OF THE IF YOU

2225
01:14:14,485 --> 01:14:16,120
THINK FULLY CIRCLE BACK TO THE

2226
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:17,989
IDEA OF THESE DEVICES ARE REALLY

2227
01:14:17,989 --> 01:14:19,891
SOMETHING THAT WE CONSIDER TO BE

2228
01:14:19,891 --> 01:14:21,526
INVASIVE OR THAT WE CONSIDER A

2229
01:14:21,526 --> 01:14:24,562
DEEP SURVEILLANCE TECHNIQUE, THE

2230
01:14:24,562 --> 01:14:26,097
FACT THAT ALL OF THAT DATA FROM

2231
01:14:26,097 --> 01:14:32,303
OUR BODIES COULD BE TAKEN AND

2232
01:14:32,303 --> 01:14:32,937
FNT HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONTROL

2233
01:14:32,937 --> 01:14:35,940
OR EVEN REVIEW THAT BECOMES

2234
01:14:35,940 --> 01:14:36,808
SIGNIFICANT -- AND NOT HAVE THE

2235
01:14:36,808 --> 01:14:38,042
ABILITY TO CONTROL OR EVEN

2236
01:14:38,042 --> 01:14:39,110
REVIEW THAT BECOMES SIGNIFICANT

2237
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:40,111
FOR US TO CONSIDER.

2238
01:14:40,111 --> 01:14:41,946
SO I'LL KIND OF WEAVE THOSE

2239
01:14:41,946 --> 01:14:47,552
DIFFERENT TOPICS THROUGH A

2240
01:14:47,552 --> 01:14:48,319
DIFFERENT CONCEPTS.

2241
01:14:48,319 --> 01:14:49,854
THE FIRST ONE IS THINKING ABOUT

2242
01:14:49,854 --> 01:14:54,025
WHERE DID THIS DEVICE COME FROM

2243
01:14:54,025 --> 01:14:55,626
AND WHO HAS PROVEN THAT IT'S

2244
01:14:55,626 --> 01:14:56,394
GOOD FOR WHAT?

2245
01:14:56,394 --> 01:14:57,929
THIS IS I THINK REALLY CRITICAL

2246
01:14:57,929 --> 01:14:59,263
WHEN WE THINK ABOUT RESEARCH

2247
01:14:59,263 --> 01:15:00,498
ETHICS BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF

2248
01:15:00,498 --> 01:15:02,133
RESEARCH THAT'S DONE ON DEVICES

2249
01:15:02,133 --> 01:15:07,138
THAT ARE CREATED IN THE CONSUMER

2250
01:15:07,138 --> 01:15:08,673
CONTEXT AND THEN BEING APPLIED

2251
01:15:08,673 --> 01:15:10,441
FOR PERHAPS USES OUTSIDE OF THE

2252
01:15:10,441 --> 01:15:12,176
CONSUMER CONTEXT, IN A MEDICAL

2253
01:15:12,176 --> 01:15:13,511
CONTEXT.

2254
01:15:13,511 --> 01:15:14,745
SO FOR EXAMPLE, A CONSTITUTED HE

2255
01:15:14,745 --> 01:15:17,982
WILL OF APPLE SMART -- A STUDY

2256
01:15:17,982 --> 01:15:19,951
OF APPLE SMARTPHONE USERS FOR

2257
01:15:19,951 --> 01:15:22,887
THE ABILITY TO DETECT THEIR

2258
01:15:22,887 --> 01:15:24,655
ATRIAL FIBRILLATION IS AN

2259
01:15:24,655 --> 01:15:26,390
EXAMPLE OF SORT OF MEDICAL

2260
01:15:26,390 --> 01:15:27,625
SCIENTISTS SAYING WAIT A SECOND,

2261
01:15:27,625 --> 01:15:29,994
THIS CONSUMER DEVICE HAS A

2262
01:15:29,994 --> 01:15:31,429
POTENTIAL SIGNIFICANCE FOR

2263
01:15:31,429 --> 01:15:34,298
CLINICAL UTILITY, AND APPLYING

2264
01:15:34,298 --> 01:15:35,366
THAT RESEARCH -- I KEEP HITTING

2265
01:15:35,366 --> 01:15:37,502
THIS THING, MY GESTURES.

2266
01:15:37,502 --> 01:15:39,871
I HAVE TO WATCH THE GESTURES.

2267
01:15:39,871 --> 01:15:42,139
APPLYING, SO THE SIGNIFICANCE OF

2268
01:15:42,139 --> 01:15:43,708
TAKING A TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS

2269
01:15:43,708 --> 01:15:45,409
SORT OF DESIGNED AND IMPLEMENTED

2270
01:15:45,409 --> 01:15:47,211
IN A COMMERCIAL CONTEXT AND THEN

2271
01:15:47,211 --> 01:15:48,946
REALLY APPROPRIATING IT FOR

2272
01:15:48,946 --> 01:15:50,581
ANOTHER USE, WHICH MAY BE VERY

2273
01:15:50,581 --> 01:15:51,682
APPROPRIATE AND HAS THE

2274
01:15:51,682 --> 01:15:53,317
POTENTIAL TO BENEFITED A LOT OF

2275
01:15:53,317 --> 01:15:55,186
PEOPLE, ALTHOUGH NOT ALL PEOPLE

2276
01:15:55,186 --> 01:15:56,587
EQUALLY, RIGHT, NOT EVERYBODY

2277
01:15:56,587 --> 01:15:58,256
HAS AN APPLE SMARTPHONE, NOT

2278
01:15:58,256 --> 01:16:01,192
EVERYBODY HAS A SMARTPHONE, SO

2279
01:16:01,192 --> 01:16:02,393
THAT'S SIGNIFICANT.

2280
01:16:02,393 --> 01:16:04,929
THERE'S ALSO VASTLY DIFFERENT

2281
01:16:04,929 --> 01:16:06,163
LEVELS OF REQUIREMENTS FOR THE

2282
01:16:06,163 --> 01:16:07,999
SCIENCE THAT GOES INTO, YOU

2283
01:16:07,999 --> 01:16:11,536
KNOW, USING A -- SORT OF PROVING

2284
01:16:11,536 --> 01:16:12,937
THAT AN APPLE PHONE CAN BE USED

2285
01:16:12,937 --> 01:16:16,240
AS A STEP TRACKER, AS OPPOSED TO

2286
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:19,310
A GLUCOOM TER BEING USED FOR

2287
01:16:19,310 --> 01:16:21,279
TRACKING AND SAFELY MONITORING

2288
01:16:21,279 --> 01:16:21,812
SOMEBODY'S DIABETES.

2289
01:16:21,812 --> 01:16:24,649
SO A DEVICE THAT HAS FDA EVEN

2290
01:16:24,649 --> 01:16:27,051
CLEARANCE BUT FDA REVIEW HAS FAR

2291
01:16:27,051 --> 01:16:28,586
MORE, A LOT MORE COS ASSOCIATED

2292
01:16:28,586 --> 01:16:30,755
WITH IT, BECOMING APPROVED, AND

2293
01:16:30,755 --> 01:16:32,757
I THINK IMPORTANTLY WE SHOULDN'T

2294
01:16:32,757 --> 01:16:34,525
FORGET THAT WHETHER IT'S FDA

2295
01:16:34,525 --> 01:16:36,294
APPROVED OR CONSUMER ELECTRONIC,

2296
01:16:36,294 --> 01:16:38,563
IN BOTH CASES, THERE'S COMPANIES

2297
01:16:38,563 --> 01:16:43,601
THAT ARE INVESTED IN THE SORT OF

2298
01:16:43,601 --> 01:16:44,468
PROFIT MOTIVE RELATED TO THE

2299
01:16:44,468 --> 01:16:45,570
PRODUCTION AND PA APPROVAL OF

2300
01:16:45,570 --> 01:16:47,305
THESE DEVICES, SO DOESN'T SORT

2301
01:16:47,305 --> 01:16:49,941
OF ELIMINATE THAT DISPARITY, BUT

2302
01:16:49,941 --> 01:16:53,244
IT IS SIGNIFICANT TO CONSIDER

2303
01:16:53,244 --> 01:16:54,779
WHAT'S GETTING REVIEWED AND BY

2304
01:16:54,779 --> 01:16:56,747
WHOM, AS OPPOSED TO I THINK

2305
01:16:56,747 --> 01:16:59,584
TAKING ON FACE VALUE THE IDEA

2306
01:16:59,584 --> 01:17:01,552
THAT THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE

2307
01:17:01,552 --> 01:17:03,421
EFFECTIVE, ESPECIALLY WHEN

2308
01:17:03,421 --> 01:17:05,289
THEY'RE BEING APPLIED OUTSIDE OF

2309
01:17:05,289 --> 01:17:07,358
THEIR ORIGINAL INTENT, BUT EVEN

2310
01:17:07,358 --> 01:17:09,427
FOR THEIR ORIGINAL PURPOSE.

2311
01:17:09,427 --> 01:17:10,728
AS I WAS PREPARING FOR THIS

2312
01:17:10,728 --> 01:17:12,063
LECTURE, SO MANY PEOPLE WERE

2313
01:17:12,063 --> 01:17:13,464
GIVING ME DIFFERENT EXAMPLES, I

2314
01:17:13,464 --> 01:17:16,000
THINK THE MOST PROFOUND ONE WAS

2315
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,371
SOMEBODY WHO HAD A SLEEP TRACKER

2316
01:17:20,371 --> 01:17:21,906
THAT STARTED -- WAS REPORTING

2317
01:17:21,906 --> 01:17:23,107
HIM AS SLEEPING WHILE HE WAS

2318
01:17:23,107 --> 01:17:24,742
WATCHING A MOVIE.

2319
01:17:24,742 --> 01:17:26,510
AND IT WAS LIKE, THAT'S VERY

2320
01:17:26,510 --> 01:17:27,812
INTERESTING THAT A DEVICE, YOU

2321
01:17:27,812 --> 01:17:29,113
KNOW, IT WAS LIKE WHAT DATA WAS

2322
01:17:29,113 --> 01:17:30,681
IT EVEN USING TO DETERMINE THAT

2323
01:17:30,681 --> 01:17:32,516
YOU WERE ASLEEP, THAT IT COULD

2324
01:17:32,516 --> 01:17:33,851
MAKE SUCH A MISTAKE?

2325
01:17:33,851 --> 01:17:35,553
IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SUCH A

2326
01:17:35,553 --> 01:17:36,754
QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE

2327
01:17:36,754 --> 01:17:38,055
DIFFERENCE THAT ANY HUMAN BEING

2328
01:17:38,055 --> 01:17:39,724
WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL, THIS

2329
01:17:39,724 --> 01:17:41,592
PERSON IS SITTING ON THE COUCH

2330
01:17:41,592 --> 01:17:43,160
WATCHING A MOVIE, NOT SLEEPING

2331
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,096
ON THE COUCH, YET IT'S AMAZE

2332
01:17:45,096 --> 01:17:47,765
THAT GO A TECHNOLOGY THAT'S MIT

2333
01:17:47,765 --> 01:17:49,166
SIENGS BACKED AND BLAH BLAH BLAH

2334
01:17:49,166 --> 01:17:51,235
WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY NO, YOU'VE

2335
01:17:51,235 --> 01:17:52,436
BEEN SLEEPING FOR THE LAST TWO

2336
01:17:52,436 --> 01:17:53,571
HOURS, SO MAYBE I SHOULD BE

2337
01:17:53,571 --> 01:17:56,040
GETTING UP MORE DUFERG THE

2338
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:57,475
MOVE -- DURING THE MOVIE BUT

2339
01:17:57,475 --> 01:17:58,676
IT'S REALLY REMARKABLE WHEN YOU

2340
01:17:58,676 --> 01:17:59,877
CONSIDER THAT THE SAME EXACT

2341
01:17:59,877 --> 01:18:01,646
THINGS ARE APPLIED TO OXYGEN

2342
01:18:01,646 --> 01:18:03,047
MONITOR, YOU KNOW, OXYGEN

2343
01:18:03,047 --> 01:18:06,784
MONITOR SAYING THAT PEOPLE DON'T

2344
01:18:06,784 --> 01:18:09,186
HAVE CERTAIN OXYGEN SATURATION,

2345
01:18:09,186 --> 01:18:10,721
WHEN REALLY THEIR VALIDATION

2346
01:18:10,721 --> 01:18:12,056
HADN'T BEEN DONE SUFFICIENTLY IN

2347
01:18:12,056 --> 01:18:14,025
PEOPLE WITH THEIR SKIN COLOR.

2348
01:18:14,025 --> 01:18:14,225
RIGHT?

2349
01:18:14,225 --> 01:18:18,529
WE SORT OF TAKE THESE DEVICES AS

2350
01:18:18,529 --> 01:18:20,398
I THINK THERE'S A WAY IN WHICH

2351
01:18:20,398 --> 01:18:22,033
THEIR ADOPTION BECOMES SO

2352
01:18:22,033 --> 01:18:24,335
NATURAL THAT WE MAKE A LOT OF

2353
01:18:24,335 --> 01:18:26,070
ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THEIR

2354
01:18:26,070 --> 01:18:27,271
EFFICACY, ESPECIALLY WHEN

2355
01:18:27,271 --> 01:18:30,241
THERE'S HARDWARE INVOLVED, AND

2356
01:18:30,241 --> 01:18:32,109
THAT THOSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT

2357
01:18:32,109 --> 01:18:33,511
NECESSARILY VALIDATED, AND

2358
01:18:33,511 --> 01:18:35,246
AGAIN, WHEN YOU START TAKING

2359
01:18:35,246 --> 01:18:36,714
DEVICES, THIS WAS A COMMON ONE,

2360
01:18:36,714 --> 01:18:38,549
WAS TO TAKE ANY DEVICE THAT WAS

2361
01:18:38,549 --> 01:18:40,184
MEASURING PEOPLE'S TEMPERATURE

2362
01:18:40,184 --> 01:18:41,485
DURING THE PANDEMIC SUDDENLY

2363
01:18:41,485 --> 01:18:44,055
BECAME A DEVICE THAT COULD BE

2364
01:18:44,055 --> 01:18:45,923
COOPTED FOR PANDEMIC, YOU KNOW,

2365
01:18:45,923 --> 01:18:48,426
EITHER SURVEILLANCE CONTROL,

2366
01:18:48,426 --> 01:18:50,528
PREDICTION, AND THE COMMON

2367
01:18:50,528 --> 01:18:59,870
EXAMPLE THE ORAL DID RING -- AWP

2368
01:18:59,870 --> 01:19:01,305
TRACKING, ANOTHER ONE FOR

2369
01:19:01,305 --> 01:19:06,010
FERTILITY TRACKING, DEVICES

2370
01:19:06,010 --> 01:19:07,645
CREATED WITHOUT FDA APPROVAL FOR

2371
01:19:07,645 --> 01:19:08,846
CERTAIN PURPOSES AND NOW YOU'RE

2372
01:19:08,846 --> 01:19:10,181
APPLYING THEM TO THE CONTEXT OF

2373
01:19:10,181 --> 01:19:11,382
COVID AND SORT OF THE VAST

2374
01:19:11,382 --> 01:19:12,817
AMOUNT OF UNKNOWN ABOUT HOW

2375
01:19:12,817 --> 01:19:14,885
THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE REALLY

2376
01:19:14,885 --> 01:19:15,886
FUNCTIONING, AND I THINK IT'S

2377
01:19:15,886 --> 01:19:18,823
CRITICAL AS IN, YOU KNOW, ANY

2378
01:19:18,823 --> 01:19:20,357
OTHER FIELD, BUT PERHAPS WITH

2379
01:19:20,357 --> 01:19:21,759
THESE DEVICES WHEN YOU HAVE

2380
01:19:21,759 --> 01:19:25,162
SOMETHING, IT COULD SORT OF SEEM

2381
01:19:25,162 --> 01:19:26,897
LIKE IT'S SORT OF A FACT OF HOW

2382
01:19:26,897 --> 01:19:28,299
IT'S GOING TO WORK.

2383
01:19:28,299 --> 01:19:29,533
AND I REALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE

2384
01:19:29,533 --> 01:19:32,603
WHO ARE DOING SCIENCE AND DOING

2385
01:19:32,603 --> 01:19:34,238
RESEARCH ON WEARABLES TO FIND

2386
01:19:34,238 --> 01:19:36,674
OUT WHAT DATA WENT INTO PROVING

2387
01:19:36,674 --> 01:19:40,044
THAT THIS DEVICE WORKS AT ALL.

2388
01:19:40,044 --> 01:19:42,780
WHAT STUDIES WERE DONE TO SHOW

2389
01:19:42,780 --> 01:19:45,182
THAT IT IS ACCURATE IN ANY WAY,

2390
01:19:45,182 --> 01:19:48,385
EVEN FOR ITS ORIGINAL INTENDED

2391
01:19:48,385 --> 01:19:50,254
PURPOSE, AND WHAT IS YOUR

2392
01:19:50,254 --> 01:19:51,355
EVIDENCE THAT WHILE VERY

2393
01:19:51,355 --> 01:19:52,389
REASONABLE IT TAKE SOMETHING

2394
01:19:52,389 --> 01:19:53,524
THAT'S MONITORING TEMPERATURE

2395
01:19:53,524 --> 01:19:55,626
AND IN FACT MANY PEOPLE THINK

2396
01:19:55,626 --> 01:19:57,895
ABOUT GOOD DESIGN IS DESIGN THAT

2397
01:19:57,895 --> 01:20:01,866
IS MADE FOR EMERGENTS, SO READY

2398
01:20:01,866 --> 01:20:04,268
FOR PEOPLE APPLYING IT IN NEW

2399
01:20:04,268 --> 01:20:05,369
WAYS, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A

2400
01:20:05,369 --> 01:20:06,871
BAD THING, BUT I THINK IT PUTS

2401
01:20:06,871 --> 01:20:08,739
YOU AT THE ONUS ON THE RESEARCH

2402
01:20:08,739 --> 01:20:10,107
COMMUNITY TO THINK, WELL, IF I'M

2403
01:20:10,107 --> 01:20:11,675
GOING TO START USING THIS FOR,

2404
01:20:11,675 --> 01:20:14,545
YOU KNOW, THE PROPOSED SORT OF

2405
01:20:14,545 --> 01:20:16,847
ALTERNATIVE USE OF TEMPERATURE

2406
01:20:16,847 --> 01:20:20,017
MONITORING IN THE PANDEMIC AS AN

2407
01:20:20,017 --> 01:20:21,986
EXAMPLE, HOW AM I VALIDATING

2408
01:20:21,986 --> 01:20:23,154
THAT THAT'S AN APPROPRIATE USE

2409
01:20:23,154 --> 01:20:24,822
AND NOT JUST SKIPPING OVER THAT

2410
01:20:24,822 --> 01:20:26,157
AND SAYING WELL IT'S USED FOR

2411
01:20:26,157 --> 01:20:27,124
TEMPERATURE MONITORING, SO WE'RE

2412
01:20:27,124 --> 01:20:28,859
GOING TO USE IT FOR MONITORING

2413
01:20:28,859 --> 01:20:30,194
TEMPERATURE IN THIS OTHER

2414
01:20:30,194 --> 01:20:30,528
CONTEXT.

2415
01:20:30,528 --> 01:20:32,696
SO THAT'S ONE WHOLE SET OF

2416
01:20:32,696 --> 01:20:33,063
CONSIDERATIONS.

2417
01:20:33,063 --> 01:20:34,365
I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT'S

2418
01:20:34,365 --> 01:20:35,900
SUPER IMPORTANT WHEN WE THINK

2419
01:20:35,900 --> 01:20:39,370
ABOUT THESE DEVICES AND THEIR

2420
01:20:39,370 --> 01:20:41,038
APPLICATION IN RESEARCH IS THAT

2421
01:20:41,038 --> 01:20:43,407
THERE'S A SORT OF POPULAR --

2422
01:20:43,407 --> 01:20:47,912
THERE'S A PROPENSITY FOR

2423
01:20:47,912 --> 01:20:49,446
CERTAINLY INVALIDATED IN POPULAR

2424
01:20:49,446 --> 01:20:51,215
SURVEYS THAT PEOPLE VIEW THAT

2425
01:20:51,215 --> 01:20:51,782
DATA ESPECIALLY WHEN THAT

2426
01:20:51,782 --> 01:20:53,484
RESEARCH IS BEING DONE AT A

2427
01:20:53,484 --> 01:20:55,586
RESEARCH CERTAIN, WHETHER IT'S

2428
01:20:55,586 --> 01:20:58,856
BY M DW'S OR Ph.D.'S OR

2429
01:20:58,856 --> 01:20:59,623
ANYBODY DOING RESEARCH THAT

2430
01:20:59,623 --> 01:21:01,559
THOSE DATA ARE PREKED BY SORT OF

2431
01:21:01,559 --> 01:21:02,993
SOME OF THE NORMS AND LEGAL

2432
01:21:02,993 --> 01:21:04,094
PROTECTIONS THAT WE ASSUME HA

2433
01:21:04,094 --> 01:21:06,163
PLY TO OUR HELIDATA, SORT OF AT

2434
01:21:06,163 --> 01:21:07,731
LARGE OR ELECTRONIC MEDICAL

2435
01:21:07,731 --> 01:21:09,033
RECORDS CERTAINLY.

2436
01:21:09,033 --> 01:21:11,001
AND THAT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE IN

2437
01:21:11,001 --> 01:21:13,904
ALMOST ALL CASES, OR AT LEAST IN

2438
01:21:13,904 --> 01:21:18,442
A SUBSET OF CASES, EVEN FOR ANY

2439
01:21:18,442 --> 01:21:19,877
DEVICE, WHICH CAN BE QUITE

2440
01:21:19,877 --> 01:21:22,713
EASILY TRACKED TO GET THAT DATA

2441
01:21:22,713 --> 01:21:23,714
FROM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU RECEIVE

2442
01:21:23,714 --> 01:21:25,282
THE DEVICE FROM YOUR CLINICIAN

2443
01:21:25,282 --> 01:21:26,550
FOR EXAMPLE FOR A RESEARCH

2444
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:28,085
STUDY, SORT OF SUBJECTS THAT

2445
01:21:28,085 --> 01:21:29,854
THAT DATA FROM THAT DEVICE WILL

2446
01:21:29,854 --> 01:21:31,288
RECEIVE THE SAME SORT OF RESPECT

2447
01:21:31,288 --> 01:21:33,557
AND LEGAL PROTECTION AS THAT

2448
01:21:33,557 --> 01:21:35,426
DATA WOULD BE IF IT WAS

2449
01:21:35,426 --> 01:21:37,928
OBTAINED, SAY, BY A BLOOD

2450
01:21:37,928 --> 01:21:39,463
PRESSURE MONITOR OR OTHER

2451
01:21:39,463 --> 01:21:41,699
SIMILAR TYPE DEVICES THAT ARE

2452
01:21:41,699 --> 01:21:43,000
APPLIED TO YOU WHEN YOU'RE IN

2453
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:45,069
THE CLINICAL SETTING, NOW THAT

2454
01:21:45,069 --> 01:21:47,238
YOU'RE BEING MONITORED REMOTELY,

2455
01:21:47,238 --> 01:21:48,706
IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE BECAUSE

2456
01:21:48,706 --> 01:21:50,875
OF THE THIRD PARTIES INVOLVED

2457
01:21:50,875 --> 01:21:53,077
AND BECAUSE OF OTHER SORT OF

2458
01:21:53,077 --> 01:21:56,981
GAPS IN OUR REGULATORY

2459
01:21:56,981 --> 01:22:00,150
INFRASTRUCTURE.

2460
01:22:00,150 --> 01:22:03,454
CRITICAL TO THINKING ABOUT

2461
01:22:03,454 --> 01:22:07,591
WEARABLES IS THE REALLY LIMITED

2462
01:22:07,591 --> 01:22:08,926
POTENTIALS OF INFORMED

2463
01:22:08,926 --> 01:22:09,360
CONSENTED.

2464
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:10,694
SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF

2465
01:22:10,694 --> 01:22:13,631
RESEARCH THAT'S DEMONSTRATED THE

2466
01:22:13,631 --> 01:22:14,531
LIFETIMES ESSENTIALLY THAT IT

2467
01:22:14,531 --> 01:22:15,866
WOULD TAKE TO ACTUALLY READ ALL

2468
01:22:15,866 --> 01:22:18,535
OF THE PRIVACY POLICIES THAT ARE

2469
01:22:18,535 --> 01:22:21,071
GOING INTO ALL OF THESE DEVICES.

2470
01:22:21,071 --> 01:22:22,706
AS A PRACTICING CLINICIAN AND A

2471
01:22:22,706 --> 01:22:23,574
SURGEON, I COULD TELL YOU EVEN

2472
01:22:23,574 --> 01:22:25,242
IN THE CLINICAL CONTEXT, WE KNOW

2473
01:22:25,242 --> 01:22:26,644
THAT PEOPLE RNLT READING THESE

2474
01:22:26,644 --> 01:22:29,280
INFORMED CONSENT -- ARE NOT

2475
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:30,281
READING THESE INFORMED CONSENT

2476
01:22:30,281 --> 01:22:31,582
FORMS AND ARE REALLY PUTTING A

2477
01:22:31,582 --> 01:22:32,783
LOT OF TRUST IN THE PEOPLE THAT

2478
01:22:32,783 --> 01:22:33,984
THEY'RE GETTING THESE DEVICES

2479
01:22:33,984 --> 01:22:35,219
FROM OR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE

2480
01:22:35,219 --> 01:22:36,520
DOING RESEARCH OR DOING CLINICAL

2481
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:38,956
CARE TO HAVE THEIR BEST

2482
01:22:38,956 --> 01:22:41,258
INTERESTS AT HEART AND ARE IN

2483
01:22:41,258 --> 01:22:41,458
MIND.

2484
01:22:41,458 --> 01:22:43,894
AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME

2485
01:22:43,894 --> 01:22:46,230
OF THE CHALLENGES AROUND, YOU

2486
01:22:46,230 --> 01:22:48,065
KNOW, WHAT IS MEANINGFUL

2487
01:22:48,065 --> 01:22:51,235
INFORMED CONSENT FOR APPLYING A

2488
01:22:51,235 --> 01:22:53,103
DEVICE THAT YOU'RE GOING ON

2489
01:22:53,103 --> 01:22:54,838
FORGET THAT YOU'RE WEARING --

2490
01:22:54,838 --> 01:22:56,140
GOING ON FORGET THAT YOU'RE

2491
01:22:56,140 --> 01:22:57,074
WEARING, THAT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW

2492
01:22:57,074 --> 01:22:58,442
THAT DATA IS USED AND WE DOAN

2493
01:22:58,442 --> 01:23:00,311
KNOW WHAT WE MIGHT USE AT THAT

2494
01:23:00,311 --> 01:23:01,512
DATA FOR WHEN WE'RE GOING INTO

2495
01:23:01,512 --> 01:23:03,047
THAT RESEARCH, THERE'S SORT OF

2496
01:23:03,047 --> 01:23:04,915
AN INHEROIN, YOU KNOW, BROAD

2497
01:23:04,915 --> 01:23:06,550
APPLICATION OF BROAD CONSENT

2498
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:09,186
WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE GET A TON OF

2499
01:23:09,186 --> 01:23:10,387
REALLY INTIMATE, VERY PARTICULAR

2500
01:23:10,387 --> 01:23:12,690
DATA FROM A PERSON, WHETHER IT'S

2501
01:23:12,690 --> 01:23:15,659
THEIR LOCATION, THEIR BODY,

2502
01:23:15,659 --> 01:23:17,661
THEIR SOCIOLOGICAL CONTEXT AND

2503
01:23:17,661 --> 01:23:21,298
BEHAVIORS, AND YET, YOU KNOW,

2504
01:23:21,298 --> 01:23:23,600
TREATING IT AS WHAT I THINK

2505
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,203
ABOUT INFORMED CONSENT VIS-A-VIS

2506
01:23:26,203 --> 01:23:28,939
ACCEPTING COOKIES AND YEAH,

2507
01:23:28,939 --> 01:23:30,574
YEAH, GIVE ME THE FITBIT AND

2508
01:23:30,574 --> 01:23:32,343
I'LL PUT IT ON AND WE'LL KIND OF

2509
01:23:32,343 --> 01:23:33,978
TAKE IT FROM THERE CREATES SORT

2510
01:23:33,978 --> 01:23:36,914
OF AN INHERENT I THINK ONUS UPON

2511
01:23:36,914 --> 01:23:39,350
THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY TO NOT

2512
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:42,419
JUST THINK ABOUT INFORMED

2513
01:23:42,419 --> 01:23:45,823
CONSENT AS ACHIEVED

2514
01:23:45,823 --> 01:23:46,623
PROSPECTIVELY BUT AS SOMETHING

2515
01:23:46,623 --> 01:23:48,225
THAT REQUIRES REALLY CONSENSUS

2516
01:23:48,225 --> 01:23:50,661
AND SORT OF ONGOING

2517
01:23:50,661 --> 01:23:51,829
COMMUNICATION ABOUT HOW THOSE

2518
01:23:51,829 --> 01:23:53,330
DEVICES ARE, IN FACT, BEING

2519
01:23:53,330 --> 01:23:54,665
USED, WHAT THAT DATA IS IN FACT

2520
01:23:54,665 --> 01:23:57,735
BEING USED FOR, REALLY CRITICAL

2521
01:23:57,735 --> 01:23:59,703
FOR SOME APPLICATIONS OF

2522
01:23:59,703 --> 01:24:01,372
WEARABLES, A GOOD EXAMPLE IS

2523
01:24:01,372 --> 01:24:02,573
FACEBOOK STORIES WHICH ARE THE

2524
01:24:02,573 --> 01:24:05,309
SMART GLASSES THAT HAD THE VIDEO

2525
01:24:05,309 --> 01:24:06,577
AUDIO CAMERAS AND THE IDEA, AND

2526
01:24:06,577 --> 01:24:08,412
THIS IS TRUE FOR OTHER SENSOR

2527
01:24:08,412 --> 01:24:10,047
TECHNOLOGY, WHEN A PERSON

2528
01:24:10,047 --> 01:24:11,782
CONSENTS TO WEAR OR PURCHASES

2529
01:24:11,782 --> 01:24:13,684
AND CONSENTS SORT OF IMPLICITLY

2530
01:24:13,684 --> 01:24:15,085
CONSENTS TO WEAR A DEVICE, THAT

2531
01:24:15,085 --> 01:24:16,720
DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE PEOPLE

2532
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,456
AROUND THEM DID, AND IT'S AN

2533
01:24:19,456 --> 01:24:20,457
INTERESTING PARALLEL TO WHAT WE

2534
01:24:20,457 --> 01:24:23,193
TALK ABOUT IN TERMS OF CONSENT

2535
01:24:23,193 --> 01:24:24,261
FOR GENETICS, WHERE YOU THINK

2536
01:24:24,261 --> 01:24:25,729
ABOUT THIS IS THE KIND OF THING

2537
01:24:25,729 --> 01:24:27,231
THAT YOU COULD CONSENT FOR BUT

2538
01:24:27,231 --> 01:24:28,499
YOUR WHOLE FAMILY'S GENETICS

2539
01:24:28,499 --> 01:24:29,633
COULD BE REVEALED BY THAT

2540
01:24:29,633 --> 01:24:31,168
DECISION, THIS SAME THING IS

2541
01:24:31,168 --> 01:24:33,270
TRUE IN A FAR GREATER FIELD OF

2542
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:36,206
SORT OF, YOU KNOW, COLLATERAL

2543
01:24:36,206 --> 01:24:38,642
PARTIES OR THIRD PARTIES WHO

2544
01:24:38,642 --> 01:24:40,144
BECAUSE OF THE SENSING DEVICES

2545
01:24:40,144 --> 01:24:41,712
I'M WEARING, NOW ALL OF YOU ARE

2546
01:24:41,712 --> 01:24:43,113
ALSO BEING MONITORED.

2547
01:24:43,113 --> 01:24:44,681
SO SORT OF THE BURDENS AROUND

2548
01:24:44,681 --> 01:24:46,183
AND SOME OF OUR NORMS AROUND

2549
01:24:46,183 --> 01:24:47,484
INFORMED CONSENT REALLY DON'T

2550
01:24:47,484 --> 01:24:49,019
APPLY IN THIS CONTEXT, SO I

2551
01:24:49,019 --> 01:24:50,654
THINK SOME OF OUR DUTIES AROUND

2552
01:24:50,654 --> 01:24:52,122
ENSURING THE SAFETY, PROTECTION,

2553
01:24:52,122 --> 01:24:53,757
BOTH THE PRIVACY OF THAT DATA AS

2554
01:24:53,757 --> 01:24:55,726
WELL AS THE BENEFITS TO THOSE

2555
01:24:55,726 --> 01:24:56,794
INDIVIDUALS WHO MIGHT BE

2556
01:24:56,794 --> 01:24:58,228
AFFECTED BEYOND EVEN THE

2557
01:24:58,228 --> 01:25:00,964
INDIVIDUAL IN OUR STUDIES IS

2558
01:25:00,964 --> 01:25:02,266
REALLY CRITICAL.

2559
01:25:02,266 --> 01:25:04,468
SO I THINK THIS IS WEAR SOME OF

2560
01:25:04,468 --> 01:25:06,570
OUR OPPORTUNITIES LIE IN TERMS

2561
01:25:06,570 --> 01:25:08,739
OF WEARABLE RESEARCH AS

2562
01:25:08,739 --> 01:25:10,607
SOMETHING WHERE THE ABILITY TO

2563
01:25:10,607 --> 01:25:13,544
CONFER TO THAT INDIVIDUAL THE

2564
01:25:13,544 --> 01:25:16,280
BENEFITS OF PARTICIPATING IN

2565
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:17,614
THAT RESEARCH BECOMES AN

2566
01:25:17,614 --> 01:25:19,349
OPPORTUNITY THAT WILL OFFSET

2567
01:25:19,349 --> 01:25:21,985
SOME OF THE RISKS THAT WE

2568
01:25:21,985 --> 01:25:24,154
ESSENTIALLY THAN THEY MAY BE

2569
01:25:24,154 --> 01:25:26,890
UN-- KNOW THAT THEY MAY BE

2570
01:25:26,890 --> 01:25:28,225
UNWILLINGLY TAKING ON ESPECIALLY

2571
01:25:28,225 --> 01:25:29,860
IF THEY DON'T FULLY APPRECIATE

2572
01:25:29,860 --> 01:25:31,295
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WHAT THE

2573
01:25:31,295 --> 01:25:32,830
DATA COMING FROM THEM FROM THESE

2574
01:25:32,830 --> 01:25:33,931
DEVICES WILL BE ABLE TO DO AND

2575
01:25:33,931 --> 01:25:35,232
HOW IT MIGHT AFFECT THEM

2576
01:25:35,232 --> 01:25:37,301
PRESIDENT FUTURE.

2577
01:25:37,301 --> 01:25:38,936
-- AND HOW IT MIGHT AFFECT THEM

2578
01:25:38,936 --> 01:25:39,937
IN THE FUTURE.

2579
01:25:39,937 --> 01:25:41,472
SO WE KIND OF TOUCHED ON THE

2580
01:25:41,472 --> 01:25:43,340
IMPACT ON DISPARITIES AND

2581
01:25:43,340 --> 01:25:45,409
DISCRIMINATION ALREADY.

2582
01:25:45,409 --> 01:25:47,511
I THINK THE REALLY IMPORTANT

2583
01:25:47,511 --> 01:25:48,946
EXAMPLES TO KEEP IN MIND ARE

2584
01:25:48,946 --> 01:25:50,247
ONES, AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE

2585
01:25:50,247 --> 01:25:52,749
TEMPERATURE SENSING, ESPECIALLY

2586
01:25:52,749 --> 01:25:55,052
GIVEN THE GENETIC DIFFERENCES

2587
01:25:55,052 --> 01:25:56,253
AND PHYSIOLOGIC DIFFERENCES

2588
01:25:56,253 --> 01:25:58,122
BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, AS AN

2589
01:25:58,122 --> 01:25:58,455
EXAMPLE.

2590
01:25:58,455 --> 01:25:59,089
RIGHT?

2591
01:25:59,089 --> 01:26:00,224
WE'RE APPLYING A DEVICE THAT'S

2592
01:26:00,224 --> 01:26:02,292
MEANT FOR SLEEP TRACKING, MAYBE

2593
01:26:02,292 --> 01:26:05,262
TESTED IN A LARGELY MALE

2594
01:26:05,262 --> 01:26:06,697
POPULATION, NOW WE'RE TESTING IT

2595
01:26:06,697 --> 01:26:07,998
FR APPLICATION FOR WHETHER

2596
01:26:07,998 --> 01:26:10,300
PEOPLE CAN GO TO WORK DURING THE

2597
01:26:10,300 --> 01:26:12,169
COVID PANDEMIC.

2598
01:26:12,169 --> 01:26:13,403
WELL, IF PEOPLE HADN'T STOPPED

2599
01:26:13,403 --> 01:26:16,006
TO CONSIDER THAT WOMEN'S

2600
01:26:16,006 --> 01:26:17,608
TEMPERATURE NATURALLY FLUCTUATES

2601
01:26:17,608 --> 01:26:19,943
OVER THE COURSE OF A MONTHLY

2602
01:26:19,943 --> 01:26:25,315
CYCLE, THEY COULD SORT OF BE

2603
01:26:25,315 --> 01:26:29,887
INADVERTENT AM SEQUESTERED --

2604
01:26:29,887 --> 01:26:31,088
INADVERTENTLY SEQUESTERED OR

2605
01:26:31,088 --> 01:26:32,623
BASED ON THE FINDINGS, OH, YOUR

2606
01:26:32,623 --> 01:26:33,857
TEMPERATURE IS TRENDING UP, THAT

2607
01:26:33,857 --> 01:26:34,958
MEANS YOU SHOULD STAY HOME FROM

2608
01:26:34,958 --> 01:26:36,693
WORK TODAY, MAYBE THAT WAS A

2609
01:26:36,693 --> 01:26:37,794
PHYSIOLOGIC PROCESS THAT WASN'T

2610
01:26:37,794 --> 01:26:40,364
REALLY CAPTURED IN THE DESIGN OF

2611
01:26:40,364 --> 01:26:41,532
THE DWIERKS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF

2612
01:26:41,532 --> 01:26:42,466
HOW THESE COULD BE AIF HE

2613
01:26:42,466 --> 01:26:44,168
CANNING PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY.

2614
01:26:44,168 --> 01:26:46,303
IT BECOMES MORE SIGNIFICANT WHEN

2615
01:26:46,303 --> 01:26:48,505
YOU THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE

2616
01:26:48,505 --> 01:26:50,174
REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE OR

2617
01:26:50,174 --> 01:26:51,742
REPRODUCTIVE INJUSTICE CONTEXT

2618
01:26:51,742 --> 01:26:53,577
AND HOW BOTH PRIVATE AND PUBLIC

2619
01:26:53,577 --> 01:26:55,746
ENTITIES CAN BE COOPTED FOR THE

2620
01:26:55,746 --> 01:26:57,814
PURPOSES OF IMPLEMENTING VARIOUS

2621
01:26:57,814 --> 01:26:59,283
KINDS OF STATE CONTROL OVER

2622
01:26:59,283 --> 01:27:01,552
ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES

2623
01:27:01,552 --> 01:27:03,520
OR DEMONSTRATING WHO MIGHT HAVE

2624
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:05,189
HAD A MISCARRIAGE OR WHO MIGHT

2625
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:06,390
HAVE HAD AN ABORTION JUST BASED

2626
01:27:06,390 --> 01:27:08,458
ON THEIR TEMPERATURE ALONE, AND

2627
01:27:08,458 --> 01:27:09,526
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE

2628
01:27:09,526 --> 01:27:11,428
THINKING ABOUT, LIKE REALLY

2629
01:27:11,428 --> 01:27:12,729
NONBENIGN USES OF THESE

2630
01:27:12,729 --> 01:27:15,899
TECHNOLOGIES THAT WE'RE SEEM --

2631
01:27:15,899 --> 01:27:17,568
THAT WERE SEEMINGLY OFF THE

2632
01:27:17,568 --> 01:27:19,670
SHELF IN BEST BUY AS SOMETHING

2633
01:27:19,670 --> 01:27:21,004
YOU CAN BUY AND SUDDENLY THERE'S

2634
01:27:21,004 --> 01:27:24,007
A COMPANY WHO COULD HAVE THAT A

2635
01:27:24,007 --> 01:27:25,209
STATE MIGHT HAVE AN INTEREST IN

2636
01:27:25,209 --> 01:27:26,877
FIENG OUT ABOUT.

2637
01:27:26,877 --> 01:27:28,278
THIS -- FINDING OUT ABOUT.

2638
01:27:28,278 --> 01:27:29,913
THIS HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN TRUE

2639
01:27:29,913 --> 01:27:32,883
IN POLITICAL ACTIVITY,

2640
01:27:32,883 --> 01:27:34,751
GEOLOCATION, IN AREAS LIKE

2641
01:27:34,751 --> 01:27:36,386
TAIWAN SPHRAMPLE A PLACE WHERE

2642
01:27:36,386 --> 01:27:39,790
PEOPLE REALLY EXPERIENCED THE

2643
01:27:39,790 --> 01:27:41,325
HARMS OF THEIR DEVICES REGARDING

2644
01:27:41,325 --> 01:27:42,859
WHERE THEY ARE WITH REGARD TO

2645
01:27:42,859 --> 01:27:44,127
POLITICAL ACTIVITIES.

2646
01:27:44,127 --> 01:27:46,997
AND AGAIN, THE QUESTION WHEN

2647
01:27:46,997 --> 01:27:48,198
YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT DOING

2648
01:27:48,198 --> 01:27:50,300
RESEARCH ON WEARABLES, AHA,

2649
01:27:50,300 --> 01:27:51,735
THERE'S ALL OF THESE PEOPLE THAT

2650
01:27:51,735 --> 01:27:52,803
ARE ALREADY WEARING WEARABLES,

2651
01:27:52,803 --> 01:27:54,471
WHY DON'T WE STUDY THEM BECAUSE

2652
01:27:54,471 --> 01:27:56,206
IT'S AGAIN THE FRICTION TO

2653
01:27:56,206 --> 01:27:58,709
IMPLEMENT IT AND IN SOME CASES

2654
01:27:58,709 --> 01:28:00,410
THE NEED TO DO ADDITIONAL

2655
01:28:00,410 --> 01:28:02,246
INFORMED CONSENT MIGHT SIMPLY BE

2656
01:28:02,246 --> 01:28:04,514
ELIMINATED BY A MINIMAL RISK

2657
01:28:04,514 --> 01:28:05,549
RESEARCH DESIGN.

2658
01:28:05,549 --> 01:28:07,284
AT THE SAME TIME, WHO HAS THOSE

2659
01:28:07,284 --> 01:28:08,819
DEVICES ALREADY AND WHAT ARE WE

2660
01:28:08,819 --> 01:28:11,088
GOING TO LEARN, WHO ARE WE GOING

2661
01:28:11,088 --> 01:28:12,689
TO BE BENEFITING, WHO ARE WE

2662
01:28:12,689 --> 01:28:14,424
GOING TO BE AIF HE CAN BIG THAT

2663
01:28:14,424 --> 01:28:15,926
RESEARCH THAT MIGHT NOT BE

2664
01:28:15,926 --> 01:28:16,793
EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED?

2665
01:28:16,793 --> 01:28:17,794
AGAIN, IF YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT

2666
01:28:17,794 --> 01:28:19,029
LIKE AN APPLE DEVICE OR WE'RE

2667
01:28:19,029 --> 01:28:20,430
GOING TO DO A STUDY ON PEOPLE

2668
01:28:20,430 --> 01:28:22,165
WHO ALREADY HAVE FIT BITS, AS

2669
01:28:22,165 --> 01:28:23,934
OPPOSED TO A STUDY THAT PROVIDES

2670
01:28:23,934 --> 01:28:25,569
THEM AS PART OF THE RESEARCH.

2671
01:28:25,569 --> 01:28:26,770
AGAIN, THAT DISENLTDZ MEAN THAT

2672
01:28:26,770 --> 01:28:28,538
THIS SECOND WAY -- THAT DOESN'T

2673
01:28:28,538 --> 01:28:30,140
MEAN THAT THIS SECOND WAY IS

2674
01:28:30,140 --> 01:28:31,608
NECESSARILY BETTER, IT COMES

2675
01:28:31,608 --> 01:28:32,342
WITH DIFFERENT RISKS AND

2676
01:28:32,342 --> 01:28:33,443
BENEFITS AND JUST PART OF THE

2677
01:28:33,443 --> 01:28:36,413
CONSIDERATION.

2678
01:28:36,413 --> 01:28:37,948
AND SORT OF THE LAST SORT OF

2679
01:28:37,948 --> 01:28:39,883
MAJOR THEME I'LL HIGHLIGHT IS

2680
01:28:39,883 --> 01:28:41,118
ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHO OWNS THE

2681
01:28:41,118 --> 01:28:42,419
DATA THAT COMES FROM THESE

2682
01:28:42,419 --> 01:28:42,953
DEVICES?

2683
01:28:42,953 --> 01:28:45,389
WHO OWNS THE INFORMATION ABOUT

2684
01:28:45,389 --> 01:28:46,690
WHERE YOU WERE, WHAT YOU WERE

2685
01:28:46,690 --> 01:28:47,891
DOING, HOW YOU WERE FEELING,

2686
01:28:47,891 --> 01:28:49,293
WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, THINKING,

2687
01:28:49,293 --> 01:28:50,927
WHO YOU WERE WITH?

2688
01:28:50,927 --> 01:28:53,063
WHO OWNS THAT DATA?

2689
01:28:53,063 --> 01:28:54,364
BECAUSE IN THE CURRENT

2690
01:28:54,364 --> 01:28:55,465
REGULATORY FRAMEWORKS AND THE

2691
01:28:55,465 --> 01:28:57,000
CURRENT WAY THAT THESE DEVICES

2692
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:58,869
ARE ADMINISTERED, IT'S LARGELY

2693
01:28:58,869 --> 01:28:59,636
NOT THE INDIVIDUAL.

2694
01:28:59,636 --> 01:29:01,505
AND IN FACT, IN MANY CASES, THE

2695
01:29:01,505 --> 01:29:03,140
INDIVIDUAL MAY NOT EVEN HAVE

2696
01:29:03,140 --> 01:29:05,208
ACCESS FULLY TO THE BREADTH OF

2697
01:29:05,208 --> 01:29:07,644
THAT DATA, IN PARTICULAR FOR

2698
01:29:07,644 --> 01:29:08,812
THEMSELVES, MUCH LESS THE

2699
01:29:08,812 --> 01:29:10,213
CONTEXT OF THE AGGREGATE DATA

2700
01:29:10,213 --> 01:29:12,549
THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO FULLY

2701
01:29:12,549 --> 01:29:13,850
MAKE SENSE OR MEANING OUT OF

2702
01:29:13,850 --> 01:29:15,819
THAT DATA AND TO MAKE IT AT

2703
01:29:15,819 --> 01:29:17,454
LEAST POTENTIALLY USEFUL TO THAT

2704
01:29:17,454 --> 01:29:17,988
INDIVIDUAL.

2705
01:29:17,988 --> 01:29:19,523
SO I THINK CRITICALLY THINKING

2706
01:29:19,523 --> 01:29:20,524
ABOUT IN A RESEARCH DESIGN OF

2707
01:29:20,524 --> 01:29:22,159
WHO OWNS THE DATA, WHO IS GOING

2708
01:29:22,159 --> 01:29:24,895
TO PROFIT FROM THIS, WHO IS SORT

2709
01:29:24,895 --> 01:29:26,730
OF -- WHOSE SORT OF INTENTIONS

2710
01:29:26,730 --> 01:29:28,632
ARE GOING TO BE EITHER VALIDATED

2711
01:29:28,632 --> 01:29:30,367
OR POTENTIALLY CRICTSDZ VIA THE

2712
01:29:30,367 --> 01:29:31,568
RESEARCH YOU'RE DOING --

2713
01:29:31,568 --> 01:29:32,569
CONTRADICTED VIA THE RESEARCH

2714
01:29:32,569 --> 01:29:33,870
YOU'RE DOING WITH THESE DEVICES

2715
01:29:33,870 --> 01:29:35,605
AND WHO IS GOING TO BE INTIRVED

2716
01:29:35,605 --> 01:29:38,775
THAT, BOTH IN THE CONTEXT OF THD

2717
01:29:38,775 --> 01:29:40,110
THAT, BOTH IN THE CONTEXT OF THE

2718
01:29:40,110 --> 01:29:42,612
STUDY AND IN THE LONG TERM ARE

2719
01:29:42,612 --> 01:29:44,481
THINGS TO THINK ABOUT.

2720
01:29:44,481 --> 01:29:45,782
AS INDIVIDUAL RESEARCHERS, YOU

2721
01:29:45,782 --> 01:29:48,618
KNOW, WE TEND ON THINK ABOUT

2722
01:29:48,618 --> 01:29:50,153
IT'S VERY TRADITIONAL RESEARCH

2723
01:29:50,153 --> 01:29:51,588
ETHICS IS VERY LIKE THE

2724
01:29:51,588 --> 01:29:53,557
INDIVIDUAL RESEARCHER AND LIKE

2725
01:29:53,557 --> 01:29:54,424
YOU'RE PROVIDING A CERTAIN

2726
01:29:54,424 --> 01:29:56,159
AMOUNT OF THINGS ON THIS PERSON,

2727
01:29:56,159 --> 01:29:57,594
BUT IN ADDITION TO US AS

2728
01:29:57,594 --> 01:29:58,795
INDIVIDUALS, WE HAVE TO THINK

2729
01:29:58,795 --> 01:30:01,765
ABOUT OUR EMPLOYERS AND WHAT

2730
01:30:01,765 --> 01:30:03,633
THEY OWN AS A RESULT OR WHAT THE

2731
01:30:03,633 --> 01:30:04,701
COMPANIES WHOSE DEVICES WE'RE

2732
01:30:04,701 --> 01:30:06,002
USING OR IF THEY'RE PROVIDING

2733
01:30:06,002 --> 01:30:07,871
THEM AS A LOAN, RIGHT, AS YOU

2734
01:30:07,871 --> 01:30:09,706
MIGHT THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE

2735
01:30:09,706 --> 01:30:11,041
ELECTRONICS THAT YOU IMPLANT

2736
01:30:11,041 --> 01:30:13,243
SOMETIMES ARE PROVIDED A LOANER

2737
01:30:13,243 --> 01:30:14,544
BASIS, SOMETIMES A WEARABLE IS

2738
01:30:14,544 --> 01:30:16,313
PROVIDED ON A LOANER BASIS, WHO

2739
01:30:16,313 --> 01:30:17,948
REALLY SORT OF OWNS THAT FOR THE

2740
01:30:17,948 --> 01:30:20,884
TIME THAT THE PERSON IS WEARING

2741
01:30:20,884 --> 01:30:21,051
IT?

2742
01:30:21,051 --> 01:30:25,088
WHO OWNS THAT INFORMATION AND,

2743
01:30:25,088 --> 01:30:29,326
YOU KNOW, THE GOOD THING I GUESS

2744
01:30:29,326 --> 01:30:31,094
WE TALK ABOUT IN SOME OF THE

2745
01:30:31,094 --> 01:30:32,062
FUTURE DIRECTIONS IS THE

2746
01:30:32,062 --> 01:30:33,630
POTENTIAL FOR SORT OF NEW

2747
01:30:33,630 --> 01:30:35,031
TECHNOLOGIES AND NEW STRUCTURES

2748
01:30:35,031 --> 01:30:37,234
AND NEW THINKING AROUND HOW

2749
01:30:37,234 --> 01:30:39,403
THESE DEVICES ARE DESIGNED, HOW

2750
01:30:39,403 --> 01:30:40,537
THE RESEARCH AROUND THEM IS

2751
01:30:40,537 --> 01:30:41,938
DESIGNED THAT CAN GIVES

2752
01:30:41,938 --> 01:30:43,273
OPPORTUNITIES TO MAYBE DESIGN

2753
01:30:43,273 --> 01:30:46,643
FOR SORT OF MORE ETHICALLY

2754
01:30:46,643 --> 01:30:47,978
EMBEDDED RESEARCH.

2755
01:30:47,978 --> 01:30:50,080
THIS I THOUGHT WAS A GREAT JUST

2756
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:53,350
IMAGE FROM AN ARTICLE ABOUT

2757
01:30:53,350 --> 01:30:54,785
CONSUMER WEARABLES IN PARTICULAR

2758
01:30:54,785 --> 01:30:56,853
BECAUSE IT SHOWS HOW SORT OF OUR

2759
01:30:56,853 --> 01:30:58,588
MENTAL MODEL IS REALLY HERE, YOU

2760
01:30:58,588 --> 01:31:00,257
KNOW, ON THE LEFT OF WHAT'S

2761
01:31:00,257 --> 01:31:03,093
INVOLVED IN THE RESEARCH AND IS

2762
01:31:03,093 --> 01:31:04,795
SWERNL A CONSUMER WEARABLE --

2763
01:31:04,795 --> 01:31:05,929
CERTAINLY WITH A CONSUMER

2764
01:31:05,929 --> 01:31:07,063
WEARABLE, YOU HAVE THE RESEARCH

2765
01:31:07,063 --> 01:31:08,231
AND YOU HAVE THE PARTICIPANTS

2766
01:31:08,231 --> 01:31:09,533
BUT THEN YOU HAVE ALL THESE

2767
01:31:09,533 --> 01:31:11,268
OTHER THIRD PARTIES AND ALL

2768
01:31:11,268 --> 01:31:12,035
THESE THIRD PARTY ACTIVITIES

2769
01:31:12,035 --> 01:31:14,004
GOING ON OVER HERE, UPON WHICH

2770
01:31:14,004 --> 01:31:15,439
THE RESEARCHER RELIES TO GET THE

2771
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:17,541
DATA THEY NEED FOR THEIR END BUT

2772
01:31:17,541 --> 01:31:20,577
THAT IT'S NOT SORT OF A CLOTHED

2773
01:31:20,577 --> 01:31:21,778
SYSTEM -- CLOSED SYSTEM AND SORT

2774
01:31:21,778 --> 01:31:25,515
OF THE STAKES AT HAND ARE JUST

2775
01:31:25,515 --> 01:31:27,717
FAR MORE WIDESPREAD, AND I THINK

2776
01:31:27,717 --> 01:31:31,021
AGAIN INHERENTLY HIDDEN.

2777
01:31:31,021 --> 01:31:33,757
SO SOME FUTURE DIRECTIONS, AND

2778
01:31:33,757 --> 01:31:35,725
HOW ARE WE DOING ON TIME?

2779
01:31:35,725 --> 01:31:38,895
>> SO YOU'RE DOING GREAT.

2780
01:31:38,895 --> 01:31:40,430
TENNESSEE FOR YOUR LECTURE, THEN

2781
01:31:40,430 --> 01:31:41,865
WE'LL HAVE TEN MINUTES FOR

2782
01:31:41,865 --> 01:31:42,165
DISCUSSION.

2783
01:31:42,165 --> 01:31:43,300
>> OKAY, GREAT.

2784
01:31:43,300 --> 01:31:43,767
PERFECT.

2785
01:31:43,767 --> 01:31:45,302
I'LL HIGHLIGHT SOME POTENTIAL

2786
01:31:45,302 --> 01:31:46,169
TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS.

2787
01:31:46,169 --> 01:31:49,573
REALLY THIS IS JUST TO KIND OF

2788
01:31:49,573 --> 01:31:50,540
INTRODUCE THESE SOLUTION AREAS

2789
01:31:50,540 --> 01:31:53,610
THAT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE

2790
01:31:53,610 --> 01:31:54,611
SIGNIFICANCE FOR SOME OF THE

2791
01:31:54,611 --> 01:31:56,012
CHALLENGES THAT WE WERE TALKING

2792
01:31:56,012 --> 01:31:56,546
ABOUT.

2793
01:31:56,546 --> 01:31:59,182
SO THE FIRST IS BLOCKCHAIN

2794
01:31:59,182 --> 01:31:59,683
TECHNOLOGY.

2795
01:31:59,683 --> 01:32:00,484
FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT BE

2796
01:32:00,484 --> 01:32:02,252
FAMILIAR WITH IT, THE MOST

2797
01:32:02,252 --> 01:32:04,754
FAMOUS EXAMPLE IS BITCOIN.

2798
01:32:04,754 --> 01:32:07,424
THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE BEHIND

2799
01:32:07,424 --> 01:32:08,525
BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGY IS A

2800
01:32:08,525 --> 01:32:10,494
DISTRIBUTED LEDGER, WHERE

2801
01:32:10,494 --> 01:32:12,796
EVERYBODY HAS ACCESS TO THE SAME

2802
01:32:12,796 --> 01:32:16,166
SET OF THE DATA ON THEIR OWN

2803
01:32:16,166 --> 01:32:18,101
SORT OF IN A LOCAL CONTEXT, SO

2804
01:32:18,101 --> 01:32:20,670
THE SORT OF SHARED VERSION OF

2805
01:32:20,670 --> 01:32:23,974
THE TRUTH IS SORT OF UNDERLYING

2806
01:32:23,974 --> 01:32:25,275
PRINCIPLE FOR A BLOCKCHAIN

2807
01:32:25,275 --> 01:32:25,709
TECHNOLOGY.

2808
01:32:25,709 --> 01:32:26,576
SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT IN

2809
01:32:26,576 --> 01:32:28,211
TERMS OF A WEARABLE, HOW THIS

2810
01:32:28,211 --> 01:32:29,112
MIGHT BE SIGNIFICANT, IF

2811
01:32:29,112 --> 01:32:30,547
EVERYBODY WHO IS, SAY, WEARING

2812
01:32:30,547 --> 01:32:33,183
THE WEARABLES IN YOUR STUDY HAD

2813
01:32:33,183 --> 01:32:35,018
ACCESS TO THEIR DATA AS WELL AS

2814
01:32:35,018 --> 01:32:36,686
ALL OF THE DATA THAT YOU WERE

2815
01:32:36,686 --> 01:32:37,721
COLLECTING FOR THE STUDY AND

2816
01:32:37,721 --> 01:32:39,656
WERE ABLE TO ACTUALLY BE

2817
01:32:39,656 --> 01:32:43,493
INCLUDED IN THE, AT LEAST AS

2818
01:32:43,493 --> 01:32:45,228
PEOPLE WHO HAD ACCESS TO AND THE

2819
01:32:45,228 --> 01:32:46,496
ABILITY TO ANALYZE AND INTERPRET

2820
01:32:46,496 --> 01:32:47,631
FOR THEMSELVES THAT RESEARCH

2821
01:32:47,631 --> 01:32:49,299
DATA CREATES AN OPPORTUNITY ON

2822
01:32:49,299 --> 01:32:50,734
THINK ABOUT REALLY THE STRUCTURE

2823
01:32:50,734 --> 01:32:53,236
OF YOUR DATA ARCHITECTURE AS ONE

2824
01:32:53,236 --> 01:32:56,106
THAT'S INHERENTLY INCLUSIVE AND

2825
01:32:56,106 --> 01:32:57,741
INHERENTLY, YOU KNOW, HAS BUILT

2826
01:32:57,741 --> 01:33:00,143
IN MECHANISMS FOR ENFORCING

2827
01:33:00,143 --> 01:33:01,878
TRUST FOR PROVE ABILITY, RIGHT,

2828
01:33:01,878 --> 01:33:03,847
SOIT NOT JUST THE COMPANY -- SO

2829
01:33:03,847 --> 01:33:05,048
IT'S NOT JUST THE COMPANY WHO

2830
01:33:05,048 --> 01:33:06,683
MADE THE DEVICES, THE ONE WHO

2831
01:33:06,683 --> 01:33:08,218
GETS DATASET AND GETS TO ANALYZE

2832
01:33:08,218 --> 01:33:10,654
IT AND GETS TO TELL THE WORLD

2833
01:33:10,654 --> 01:33:12,722
ABOUT WHAT THEY FOUND, IT ALSO

2834
01:33:12,722 --> 01:33:15,025
CREATES MECHANISMS TO ENFORCE

2835
01:33:15,025 --> 01:33:16,760
NOT ABILITY FOR THOSE RESEARCH

2836
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:17,994
FINDINGS AND FOR REALLY JUST

2837
01:33:17,994 --> 01:33:19,829
SHARING THE ACCESS TO THE

2838
01:33:19,829 --> 01:33:22,899
INFORMATION IN A WAY THAT

2839
01:33:22,899 --> 01:33:27,737
DEMOCRATIZES IT FUNDAMENTALLY.

2840
01:33:27,737 --> 01:33:29,773
THERE'S A WHOLE SORT OF CULTURAL

2841
01:33:29,773 --> 01:33:31,541
MOVEMENT AROUND BLOCKCHAIN

2842
01:33:31,541 --> 01:33:33,076
TECHNOLOGY TYPICALLY CALLED WEB

2843
01:33:33,076 --> 01:33:35,178
3 MOVEMENT WHICH REALLY HAS AT

2844
01:33:35,178 --> 01:33:37,881
ITS FUNDAMENTAL CORE THE IDEA

2845
01:33:37,881 --> 01:33:39,883
THAT THE OWNERSHIP OF THE WEB OR

2846
01:33:39,883 --> 01:33:42,485
THE OWNERSHIP OF THE DIGITAL

2847
01:33:42,485 --> 01:33:44,721
SPACE NEEDS TO BE DEMOCRATIZED

2848
01:33:44,721 --> 01:33:46,456
FOR THE FUTURE OF DEMOCRACY TO

2849
01:33:46,456 --> 01:33:48,325
BE REAL AND TO BE MAINTAINED,

2850
01:33:48,325 --> 01:33:49,526
WHEREAS WE THINK ABOUT ALL OF

2851
01:33:49,526 --> 01:33:54,264
OUR SOCIAL AND POLITICAL

2852
01:33:54,264 --> 01:33:55,332
ORGANIZATIONS IN THE PHYSICAL

2853
01:33:55,332 --> 01:33:56,866
WORMED THAT HAVE CERTAIN

2854
01:33:56,866 --> 01:33:59,703
PRINCIPLES EMBEDDED IN THEM AND

2855
01:33:59,703 --> 01:34:01,137
CERTAIN DEMOCRATIZED OWNERSHIP

2856
01:34:01,137 --> 01:34:02,872
OVER LIKE OUR BODIES, AND ARE

2857
01:34:02,872 --> 01:34:04,307
YET WHEN YOU GO INTO THE DPIJ

2858
01:34:04,307 --> 01:34:06,376
TAL SPACE, MANY PEOPLE --

2859
01:34:06,376 --> 01:34:08,712
DIGITAL SPACE, MANY PEOPLE WILL

2860
01:34:08,712 --> 01:34:11,982
THINK OF IT WHERE THERE'S THESE

2861
01:34:11,982 --> 01:34:14,517
LARGE AGGREGATORS THAT LARGE THE

2862
01:34:14,517 --> 01:34:17,787
DATA IN A WAY THAT GIVES THEM

2863
01:34:17,787 --> 01:34:18,655
INESCAPABLE ADVANTAGE OVER

2864
01:34:18,655 --> 01:34:20,190
POTENTIAL COMPETITORS TO THEM,

2865
01:34:20,190 --> 01:34:21,491
MUCH LESS TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO

2866
01:34:21,491 --> 01:34:22,359
THEY'RE SERVING.

2867
01:34:22,359 --> 01:34:22,592
OKAY.

2868
01:34:22,592 --> 01:34:23,893
SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE IDEAS

2869
01:34:23,893 --> 01:34:25,962
AROUND THERE.

2870
01:34:25,962 --> 01:34:26,963
ZERO KNOWLEDGE PROOFS IS AN

2871
01:34:26,963 --> 01:34:28,264
IMPORTANT AND NOW REALLY

2872
01:34:28,264 --> 01:34:30,133
STARTING TO TAKE OFF TECHNOLOGY,

2873
01:34:30,133 --> 01:34:35,472
WHERE YOU CAN PROVE

2874
01:34:35,472 --> 01:34:36,906
INFORMATION ABOUT A DATASET

2875
01:34:36,906 --> 01:34:38,441
WITHOUT GETTING ACCESS TO THAT

2876
01:34:38,441 --> 01:34:41,077
DATASET, SO THE REALLY CRITICAL

2877
01:34:41,077 --> 01:34:42,479
FEATURE UNDERLYING

2878
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:43,113
ZERO-KNOWLEDGE PROOF TECHNOLOGY

2879
01:34:43,113 --> 01:34:44,914
IS THAT I CAN KEEP MY DATA

2880
01:34:44,914 --> 01:34:46,216
PRIVATE FROM YOU AND YOU CAN

2881
01:34:46,216 --> 01:34:48,752
STILL DO ANALYSIS THAT

2882
01:34:48,752 --> 01:34:49,519
DEMONSTRATES WHETHER OR NOT

2883
01:34:49,519 --> 01:34:51,688
CERTAIN CRITERIA LIKE IF A OR B

2884
01:34:51,688 --> 01:34:53,757
IS CORRECT, YOU CAN FIND OUT

2885
01:34:53,757 --> 01:34:56,292
THAT ANSWER IN A PROVEABLE

2886
01:34:56,292 --> 01:34:57,260
MATHEMATICALLY PROVEABLE WAY

2887
01:34:57,260 --> 01:34:58,595
WITHOUT ME EVER SHOWING YOU MY

2888
01:34:58,595 --> 01:35:00,363
DATA, SO THE FACT THAT THOSE

2889
01:35:00,363 --> 01:35:02,532
KINDS OF SORT OF ALGORITHMIC

2890
01:35:02,532 --> 01:35:05,568
PROOFS ARE POSSIBLE WITHOUT

2891
01:35:05,568 --> 01:35:06,803
SHARING DATA CREATES REALLY

2892
01:35:06,803 --> 01:35:07,771
IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITIES IN THE

2893
01:35:07,771 --> 01:35:08,938
SPACE OF WEARABLES WHERE WE

2894
01:35:08,938 --> 01:35:09,739
MIGHT HAVE REALLY IMPORTANT

2895
01:35:09,739 --> 01:35:11,041
REASONS TO KEEP OUR DATA LOCAL

2896
01:35:11,041 --> 01:35:13,910
TO THE DEVICE AND KEEP IT SORT

2897
01:35:13,910 --> 01:35:15,245
OF FUNDAMENTALLY DISTRIBUTED,

2898
01:35:15,245 --> 01:35:16,880
AGAIN, WHETHER IT'S WITH A

2899
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:18,615
BLOCKCHAIN OR NOT, THAT DATA CAN

2900
01:35:18,615 --> 01:35:20,483
REMAIN LOCAL TO THE DEVICE,

2901
01:35:20,483 --> 01:35:21,584
DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SHARED WITH

2902
01:35:21,584 --> 01:35:23,186
THE COMPANY OR SHARED EVEN WITH

2903
01:35:23,186 --> 01:35:24,387
THE RESEARCHER FOR THEM TO BE

2904
01:35:24,387 --> 01:35:30,894
ABLE TO LEARN FROM IT.

2905
01:35:30,894 --> 01:35:34,698
ANOTHER CATEGORY OF PRIVACY

2906
01:35:34,698 --> 01:35:35,365
PRESERVING TECHNOLOGIES RELEVANT

2907
01:35:35,365 --> 01:35:37,367
HERE, TRUSTED EXECUTION

2908
01:35:37,367 --> 01:35:38,668
ENVIRONMENTS, ALREADY BEING

2909
01:35:38,668 --> 01:35:40,537
IMPLEMENTED IN SOME WEARABLE

2910
01:35:40,537 --> 01:35:42,038
CONTEXT, THOSE INTERESTED IN

2911
01:35:42,038 --> 01:35:43,039
WEARABLE RESEARCH THIS IS A

2912
01:35:43,039 --> 01:35:44,040
REALLY IMPORTANT AND GROWING

2913
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:45,775
OPPORTUNITY, ESSENTIALLY IT'S

2914
01:35:45,775 --> 01:35:47,110
HARDWARE THAT FUNCTIONS LIKE A

2915
01:35:47,110 --> 01:35:49,646
BLACK BOX BUT ON THE LEVEL OF

2916
01:35:49,646 --> 01:35:50,280
THE INDIVIDUAL.

2917
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,248
SO PEOPLE CAN PUT THEIR DATA IN.

2918
01:35:52,248 --> 01:35:53,216
OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T NECESSARILY

2919
01:35:53,216 --> 01:35:54,017
SEE IT.

2920
01:35:54,017 --> 01:35:56,853
SO IT DOES SORT OF LENDS ITSELF

2921
01:35:56,853 --> 01:35:58,822
TO MAINTAIN BEING PRIVACY OF

2922
01:35:58,822 --> 01:35:59,856
IDENTITY AS WELL AS WHILE AT THE

2923
01:35:59,856 --> 01:36:01,558
SAME TIME CREATING THAT DATA AND

2924
01:36:01,558 --> 01:36:02,992
ALLOWING THAT DATA TO BE USEFUL

2925
01:36:02,992 --> 01:36:04,661
FOR DIFFERENT LEARNING

2926
01:36:04,661 --> 01:36:05,695
FUNCTIONS.

2927
01:36:05,695 --> 01:36:08,131
AND A FOURTH CATEGORY WHICH IS

2928
01:36:08,131 --> 01:36:11,201
PROBABLY THE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST

2929
01:36:11,201 --> 01:36:12,202
AS DEVELOPED IF NOT MORE

2930
01:36:12,202 --> 01:36:13,737
DEVELOPED I WOULD SAY THAN

2931
01:36:13,737 --> 01:36:15,105
BLOCKCHAIN TOMG AT THIS POINT IS

2932
01:36:15,105 --> 01:36:16,706
A FED -- TECHNOLOGY AT THIS

2933
01:36:16,706 --> 01:36:19,642
POINT A FEDERATED APPROACH TO

2934
01:36:19,642 --> 01:36:20,744
LEARNING, ALTERNATE IS SPLIT

2935
01:36:20,744 --> 01:36:22,078
LEARNING APPROACH, WHERE

2936
01:36:22,078 --> 01:36:23,613
ESSENTIALLY YOU CAN SEND AN

2937
01:36:23,613 --> 01:36:25,014
ALGORITHM TO SOMEBODY'S DEVICE,

2938
01:36:25,014 --> 01:36:26,349
THAT COMPUTATION CAN BE DONE

2939
01:36:26,349 --> 01:36:27,417
LOCALLY, THE MOST COMMON EXAMPLE

2940
01:36:27,417 --> 01:36:28,952
OF THIS IS HOW AUTO CORRECT

2941
01:36:28,952 --> 01:36:31,054
WORKS ON OUR TEXT MESSAGES, SO

2942
01:36:31,054 --> 01:36:33,089
IT HAPPENS SO FAST, THAT'S

2943
01:36:33,089 --> 01:36:34,424
HAPPENING FAST BECAUSE THE

2944
01:36:34,424 --> 01:36:35,759
COMPUTATION IS HAPPENING ON YOUR

2945
01:36:35,759 --> 01:36:37,327
DEVICE AND YOUR TEXT MESSAGES

2946
01:36:37,327 --> 01:36:38,328
NEVER LEAVE THE DEVICE.

2947
01:36:38,328 --> 01:36:39,696
SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW WE

2948
01:36:39,696 --> 01:36:46,102
CAN THINK ABOUT THE DATA AS BEIR

2949
01:36:46,102 --> 01:36:47,837
EMBEDDING A SORT OF ETHICAL

2950
01:36:47,837 --> 01:36:49,172
PRINCIPLES IN THE DESIGN OF HOW

2951
01:36:49,172 --> 01:36:52,776
WE IMPLY MEN THESE TECHNOLOGIES.

2952
01:36:52,776 --> 01:36:53,877
THE FINAL POINT IS REALLY SORT

2953
01:36:53,877 --> 01:36:55,845
OF TAKING THE TECHNOLOGICAL

2954
01:36:55,845 --> 01:36:56,846
IMPLEMENTATION, ONE CATEGORY OF

2955
01:36:56,846 --> 01:36:58,581
WAYS WE CAN COMBAT SOME OF THESE

2956
01:36:58,581 --> 01:37:00,416
CHALLENGES IS IN THE TECHNOLOGY

2957
01:37:00,416 --> 01:37:01,484
ITSELF, IN THE DESIGN ITSELF, IN

2958
01:37:01,484 --> 01:37:04,020
THE DESIGN OF OUR STUDIES IS THE

2959
01:37:04,020 --> 01:37:04,687
OTHER WAY.

2960
01:37:04,687 --> 01:37:06,322
SO IN THE DESIGN OF HOW WE

2961
01:37:06,322 --> 01:37:08,792
INCLUDE AND SHARE GOVERNANCE FOR

2962
01:37:08,792 --> 01:37:09,359
THESE TECHNOLOGIES WITH THE

2963
01:37:09,359 --> 01:37:10,960
PEOPLE WHO WE'RE STUDYING.

2964
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:13,830
SO HOW YOU MIGHT INCLUDE PEOPLE

2965
01:37:13,830 --> 01:37:15,799
IN THE CONVERSATIONS NOT JUST

2966
01:37:15,799 --> 01:37:17,767
DURING INFORMED CONSENT, BUT

2967
01:37:17,767 --> 01:37:19,636
REGULARLY THROUGHOUT THE

2968
01:37:19,636 --> 01:37:19,869
CONTEXT.

2969
01:37:19,869 --> 01:37:21,037
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WEARABLES

2970
01:37:21,037 --> 01:37:23,139
ALLOWS YOU TO DO IS STUDY PEOPLE

2971
01:37:23,139 --> 01:37:25,008
THAT ARE VERY, VERY FAR AWAY

2972
01:37:25,008 --> 01:37:25,975
FROM YOU, WITHOUT EVEN PERHAPS

2973
01:37:25,975 --> 01:37:27,076
OBSERVING A PERSON WEARING THE

2974
01:37:27,076 --> 01:37:28,611
DEVICE THAT YOU'RE GETTING DATA

2975
01:37:28,611 --> 01:37:28,945
FROM.

2976
01:37:28,945 --> 01:37:31,247
SO I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE WHO ARE

2977
01:37:31,247 --> 01:37:33,082
STUDYING, YOU KNOW, STUDYING

2978
01:37:33,082 --> 01:37:35,185
WEARABLE DATA TO OBSERVE PEOPLE

2979
01:37:35,185 --> 01:37:37,453
IN THEIR NATURAL HABITAT, IF YOU

2980
01:37:37,453 --> 01:37:38,888
WILL, AND SEE HOW THESE DEVICES

2981
01:37:38,888 --> 01:37:41,191
ARE REALLY AFFECTING PEOPLE,

2982
01:37:41,191 --> 01:37:43,493
GIVE PEOPLE ALSO THE SORT OF

2983
01:37:43,493 --> 01:37:45,461
POWER, PART OF THIS IS THE SCARY

2984
01:37:45,461 --> 01:37:46,663
THING FOR RESEARCHERS IS IF

2985
01:37:46,663 --> 01:37:47,864
YOU'RE GOING TO SAY WE'RE GOING

2986
01:37:47,864 --> 01:37:49,065
TO DISTRIBUTE POWER, WE'RE GOING

2987
01:37:49,065 --> 01:37:51,234
ON GIVE A SAY IN HOW NOT JUST

2988
01:37:51,234 --> 01:37:52,569
WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO

2989
01:37:52,569 --> 01:37:53,570
HAPPEN THE IN BEGINNING OF THE

2990
01:37:53,570 --> 01:37:54,470
RESEARCH, BUT WE'RE GOING TO

2991
01:37:54,470 --> 01:37:56,306
GIVE YOU A SAY IN HOW THINGS ARE

2992
01:37:56,306 --> 01:37:58,374
GOING AND THE ABILITY CRITICALLY

2993
01:37:58,374 --> 01:38:00,610
TO OPT OUT, TO WITHDRAW, TO

2994
01:38:00,610 --> 01:38:02,478
CHANGE THINGS BASED ON WHAT ENDS

2995
01:38:02,478 --> 01:38:05,448
UP HAPPENING REQUIRES BOTH

2996
01:38:05,448 --> 01:38:06,883
DISTRIBUTION OF AND TRANSPARENCY

2997
01:38:06,883 --> 01:38:08,284
ABOUT HOW THE RESEARCH IS GOING,

2998
01:38:08,284 --> 01:38:09,285
WHAT WE'RE LEARNING, WHAT WE'RE

2999
01:38:09,285 --> 01:38:10,820
FINDING, WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH

3000
01:38:10,820 --> 01:38:14,524
IT, BUT ALSO OF THE POWER TO

3001
01:38:14,524 --> 01:38:15,859
DIRECT CHANGES AND FOR PEOPLE

3002
01:38:15,859 --> 01:38:18,494
WHO ARE WEARING THE DEVICES OR

3003
01:38:18,494 --> 01:38:21,197
PART OF THE RESEARCH TO EFFECT

3004
01:38:21,197 --> 01:38:22,398
SORT OF THE DIRECTION OF THE

3005
01:38:22,398 --> 01:38:23,733
RESEARCH, WHICH REQUIRES REALLY

3006
01:38:23,733 --> 01:38:27,670
LIKE A LOT OF TRUST BOTH IN THE

3007
01:38:27,670 --> 01:38:29,205
RESEARCH COMMUNITY AND PLANS

3008
01:38:29,205 --> 01:38:30,907
REALLY FOR HOW YOU'RE GOING TO

3009
01:38:30,907 --> 01:38:33,109
DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY IF THE

3010
01:38:33,109 --> 01:38:34,544
RESEARCH PARTICIPANTS DECIDE

3011
01:38:34,544 --> 01:38:35,979
THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE WAY

3012
01:38:35,979 --> 01:38:37,513
THAT THE RESEARCH WAS GOING OR

3013
01:38:37,513 --> 01:38:40,016
THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE CONCLUSIONS

3014
01:38:40,016 --> 01:38:41,985
OR, YOU KNOW, THE CONTENT ABOUT

3015
01:38:41,985 --> 01:38:43,519
THEM THAT YOU WERE PUBLISHING.

3016
01:38:43,519 --> 01:38:44,954
SO IN ORDER FOR THEM TO EVEN BE

3017
01:38:44,954 --> 01:38:46,856
ABLE TO REVIEW THAT, THEY HAVE

3018
01:38:46,856 --> 01:38:50,093
TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT THAT DATA

3019
01:38:50,093 --> 01:38:55,231
AND HAVE TRANSPARENCY ABOUT

3020
01:38:55,231 --> 01:38:55,431
THAT.

3021
01:38:55,431 --> 01:38:57,400
SPROIF MY LAST THREE TAKE AWAYS

3022
01:38:57,400 --> 01:38:58,968
HERE, ONE, I HOPE TO HAVE AT

3023
01:38:58,968 --> 01:39:01,037
LEAST CONVINCED YOU OR TO

3024
01:39:01,037 --> 01:39:03,539
CONSIDER WEARABLES AS REALLY A

3025
01:39:03,539 --> 01:39:05,842
TRULY INVASIVE METHODOLOGY GIVEN

3026
01:39:05,842 --> 01:39:07,810
THE AMOUNT OF DATA THAT THEY CAN

3027
01:39:07,810 --> 01:39:10,113
COLLECT AND GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF

3028
01:39:10,113 --> 01:39:11,748
ALMOST THIS PARASITIC NATURE OF

3029
01:39:11,748 --> 01:39:13,416
HOW THEY CAN ABSORB THINGS AND

3030
01:39:13,416 --> 01:39:14,717
HOW THEY CAN REALLY, HOW THEY'RE

3031
01:39:14,717 --> 01:39:17,987
TAKING FROM PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT

3032
01:39:17,987 --> 01:39:20,523
I THINK IT MAY BE VERY EASY TO

3033
01:39:20,523 --> 01:39:22,492
FORGET AND THAT THEY RELY ON

3034
01:39:22,492 --> 01:39:22,725
TRUST.

3035
01:39:22,725 --> 01:39:25,028
THE SECOND IS TO THINK ABOUT,

3036
01:39:25,028 --> 01:39:27,397
YOU KNOW, CHALLENGE YOUR

3037
01:39:27,397 --> 01:39:28,164
ASSUMPTIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN

3038
01:39:28,164 --> 01:39:29,866
YOU'RE USING CONSUMER DEVICES,

3039
01:39:29,866 --> 01:39:32,802
BUT I'M ALMOST EQUALLY

3040
01:39:32,802 --> 01:39:35,305
SIGNIFICANT I THINK FOR MEDICAL

3041
01:39:35,305 --> 01:39:36,739
DEVICES, BUT CHALLENGE YOUR

3042
01:39:36,739 --> 01:39:37,941
ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THE

3043
01:39:37,941 --> 01:39:38,875
APPLICABILITY AND VALIDITY OF

3044
01:39:38,875 --> 01:39:40,777
THE USE OF THOSE MATERIALS FOR

3045
01:39:40,777 --> 01:39:42,812
YOUR INTENDED PURPOSE BECAUSE IF

3046
01:39:42,812 --> 01:39:44,280
YOU DIG INTO THE DATA, YOU WANT

3047
01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:47,517
TO BE SURE THAT YOU'RE STANDING

3048
01:39:47,517 --> 01:39:49,385
ON SOLID GROUND FROM WHERE YOU

3049
01:39:49,385 --> 01:39:50,820
WORK, AND IT'S JUST CERTAINLY

3050
01:39:50,820 --> 01:39:51,721
NOT GUARANTEED.

3051
01:39:51,721 --> 01:39:53,523
AND THE LAST IS THAT, YOU KNOW,

3052
01:39:53,523 --> 01:39:56,059
THERE ARE POWER ASYMMETRIES

3053
01:39:56,059 --> 01:39:58,594
STRUCTURALLY BUILT INTO HOW

3054
01:39:58,594 --> 01:40:00,129
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW WHORKS GETS TO

3055
01:40:00,129 --> 01:40:01,531
ACCESS THAT -- WHO GETS TO

3056
01:40:01,531 --> 01:40:03,499
ACCESS THAT DATA AND WHO GETS TO

3057
01:40:03,499 --> 01:40:04,600
COMMERCIALIZE IT AND WHO GETS TO

3058
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:06,035
HAVE CONTROL OVER IT AND WHEN

3059
01:40:06,035 --> 01:40:07,870
IT'S THAT REALLY INTIMATE DATA,

3060
01:40:07,870 --> 01:40:09,539
THERE ARE ALSO OPPORTUNITIES

3061
01:40:09,539 --> 01:40:10,974
BOTH TECHNOLOGICALLY AND IN YOUR

3062
01:40:10,974 --> 01:40:15,345
RESEARCH DESIGNS THAT INCLUDE

3063
01:40:15,345 --> 01:40:17,113
PARTICIPANTS, THAT PROTECT THEIR

3064
01:40:17,113 --> 01:40:18,982
INTERESTS FROM PRIVACY AND

3065
01:40:18,982 --> 01:40:19,749
AUTONOMY STANDPOINT.

3066
01:40:19,749 --> 01:40:21,184
SO I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT, AND I

3067
01:40:21,184 --> 01:40:24,454
LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR QUESTIONS.

3068
01:40:24,454 --> 01:40:26,189
[APPLAUSE]

3069
01:40:26,189 --> 01:40:27,957
I'LL TRY TO STOP HITTING THESE.

3070
01:40:27,957 --> 01:40:33,029
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

3071
01:40:33,029 --> 01:40:35,431
SO AS YOU PROBABLY SAW WITH

3072
01:40:35,431 --> 01:40:38,501
SASKIA'S LECTURE, WE HAVE FOLK

3073
01:40:38,501 --> 01:40:40,003
IN THE ROOM WHO CAN GO TO THE

3074
01:40:40,003 --> 01:40:41,471
MIC TO ASK QUESTIONS, AND I ALSO

3075
01:40:41,471 --> 01:40:43,006
HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FROM OUR

3076
01:40:43,006 --> 01:40:43,773
VIRTUAL AUDIENCE.

3077
01:40:43,773 --> 01:40:47,176
SO AS YOU ALL RUSH TO THE MICS,

3078
01:40:47,176 --> 01:40:50,346
HERE IS A QUESTION FROM LAURA.

3079
01:40:50,346 --> 01:40:52,648
SHE SAYS, I'M INTERESTED IN THE

3080
01:40:52,648 --> 01:40:54,050
SPEAKER'S TAKE ON THE RISKS

3081
01:40:54,050 --> 01:40:57,220
ASSOCIATED WITH POTENTIALLY

3082
01:40:57,220 --> 01:40:58,988
CONFLICTING PRIORITIES OF

3083
01:40:58,988 --> 01:41:00,123
CONSUMER DEVICES.

3084
01:41:00,123 --> 01:41:04,127
FOR EXAMPLE, HEALTH VERSUS

3085
01:41:04,127 --> 01:41:05,161
MARKETABILITY, PROFITABILITY,

3086
01:41:05,161 --> 01:41:06,963
AND WHETHER SUCH CONFLICTING

3087
01:41:06,963 --> 01:41:08,831
PRIORITIES MAY RESULT IN

3088
01:41:08,831 --> 01:41:11,801
REDUCING HEALTH.

3089
01:41:11,801 --> 01:41:14,203
SO ADS FOR FAST FOOD LOCATIONS

3090
01:41:14,203 --> 01:41:15,638
OR HELIACTIVITIES THAT AREN'T

3091
01:41:15,638 --> 01:41:17,607
EVIDENCE-BASED OR REDUCING

3092
01:41:17,607 --> 01:41:20,243
AUTONOMY VIA PSYCHOLOGICAL

3093
01:41:20,243 --> 01:41:20,610
MANIPULATION H.

3094
01:41:20,610 --> 01:41:22,512
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A
REALLY

3095
01:41:22,512 --> 01:41:24,313
GREAT QUESTION.

3096
01:41:24,313 --> 01:41:26,349
I THINK ONE GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS

3097
01:41:26,349 --> 01:41:28,851
THAT I THINK ABOUT IS WITH SLEEP

3098
01:41:28,851 --> 01:41:29,485
TRACKING.

3099
01:41:29,485 --> 01:41:29,919
RIGHT?

3100
01:41:29,919 --> 01:41:30,119
OKAY.

3101
01:41:30,119 --> 01:41:33,322
ASSUME THAT THE SLEEP TRACKER IS

3102
01:41:33,322 --> 01:41:34,724
WORKING.

3103
01:41:34,724 --> 01:41:37,894
PROVE THAT YOU'VE ACTUALLY

3104
01:41:37,894 --> 01:41:38,661
IMPROVED PEOPLE'S SLEEP AS A

3105
01:41:38,661 --> 01:41:40,763
RESULT OF THEIR USE OF THOSE

3106
01:41:40,763 --> 01:41:43,066
DEVICES, BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE WHO

3107
01:41:43,066 --> 01:41:45,001
USE DEVICES FOR TRACKING

3108
01:41:45,001 --> 01:41:47,103
PURPOSES EXPERIENCE BENEFITS,

3109
01:41:47,103 --> 01:41:49,405
MANY PEOPLE EXPERIENCE HARMS,

3110
01:41:49,405 --> 01:41:51,474
AND THAT REALLY ONLY COMES OUT

3111
01:41:51,474 --> 01:41:52,708
WITH RESEARCH OVER TIME, WHICH

3112
01:41:52,708 --> 01:41:54,677
IS WHY RESEARCH ON THESE

3113
01:41:54,677 --> 01:41:56,746
DEVICES, EVEN IF THEY'RE ALREADY

3114
01:41:56,746 --> 01:41:57,947
IMPLEMENTED, IS SO CRITICAL,

3115
01:41:57,947 --> 01:42:00,016
LIKE WE NEED THAT LONG-TERM SORT

3116
01:42:00,016 --> 01:42:01,551
OF LIKE ALL THE WAYS THAT PEOPLE

3117
01:42:01,551 --> 01:42:03,086
ARE ACTUALLY USING THESE

3118
01:42:03,086 --> 01:42:04,854
DEVICES, WE NEED TO STUDY THAT.

3119
01:42:04,854 --> 01:42:06,489
IS IT ACTUALLY MAKING THEM

3120
01:42:06,489 --> 01:42:08,357
HEALTHIER OR IS IT

3121
01:42:08,357 --> 01:42:09,659
PSYCHOLOGICALLY OR PHYSICALLY

3122
01:42:09,659 --> 01:42:11,060
TOXIC IN SOME WAY AND REALLY ON

3123
01:42:11,060 --> 01:42:11,761
EVERY LEVEL?

3124
01:42:11,761 --> 01:42:13,062
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT AN PS

3125
01:42:13,062 --> 01:42:15,031
THE QUESTION -- IF THAT ANSWER

3126
01:42:15,031 --> 01:42:16,466
PS THE QUESTION, BUT I THINK

3127
01:42:16,466 --> 01:42:17,667
THAT IT'S AN OPEN QUESTION AND

3128
01:42:17,667 --> 01:42:19,402
IT'S GOING ON VARY CASE BY CASE

3129
01:42:19,402 --> 01:42:21,604
AS TO WHETHER A PROPOSED BENEFIT

3130
01:42:21,604 --> 01:42:24,674
IS, IN FACT, BEING ACCRUED TO

3131
01:42:24,674 --> 01:42:26,175
PEOPLE AND ESPECIALLY WHEN

3132
01:42:26,175 --> 01:42:28,044
DEVICES ARE NOT FDA, YOU KNOW,

3133
01:42:28,044 --> 01:42:29,579
THROUGH THE FDA PROCESS, THERE'S

3134
01:42:29,579 --> 01:42:31,347
NO POST-MARKET ANALYSIS.

3135
01:42:31,347 --> 01:42:33,182
BASICALLY IT SELLS OR IT

3136
01:42:33,182 --> 01:42:33,649
DOESN'T.

3137
01:42:33,649 --> 01:42:34,183
RIGHT?

3138
01:42:34,183 --> 01:42:36,319
THE MARKET DECIDES.

3139
01:42:36,319 --> 01:42:37,687
WHICH IS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN IT

3140
01:42:37,687 --> 01:42:38,688
BEING HEALTHY OR NOT.

3141
01:42:38,688 --> 01:42:41,757
>> YEAH, AND IT BRINGS UP
SOME

3142
01:42:41,757 --> 01:42:43,392
OF THE ISSUES THAT SASKIA

3143
01:42:43,392 --> 01:42:46,863
BROUGHT UP INTHERMS OF THE SORT

3144
01:42:46,863 --> 01:42:50,066
OF WHAT ARE, IF ANY OF THE

3145
01:42:50,066 --> 01:42:52,435
RESEARCHERS' OBLIGATIONS TO

3146
01:42:52,435 --> 01:42:55,972
CARRY ON THAT SORT OF LONG-TERM

3147
01:42:55,972 --> 01:42:58,808
DATA COLLECTION TO SEE HOW WHAT

3148
01:42:58,808 --> 01:43:00,543
MIGHT HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW,

3149
01:43:00,543 --> 01:43:02,845
INTERESTING IN THE CONTEXT

3150
01:43:02,845 --> 01:43:04,080
OFFING -- I'M GETTING SOME

3151
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:05,815
FEEDBACK, I'LL MOVE BACK THIS

3152
01:43:05,815 --> 01:43:08,651
WAY -- INTERESTING FINDINGS THAT

3153
01:43:08,651 --> 01:43:10,753
YOU MIGHT COLLECT AS A RESULT OF

3154
01:43:10,753 --> 01:43:12,922
A RESEARCH PHASE THAT IF THE

3155
01:43:12,922 --> 01:43:14,891
PERSON CONTINUES TO USE THAT

3156
01:43:14,891 --> 01:43:17,059
APP, ARE THERE LONG-TERM DOWN

3157
01:43:17,059 --> 01:43:19,462
SIDES TO DOING SO, AND WE WON'T

3158
01:43:19,462 --> 01:43:21,330
KNOW IF THERE ISN'T ANY

3159
01:43:21,330 --> 01:43:25,968
LONG-TERM FOLLOW-UP OF THOSE

3160
01:43:25,968 --> 01:43:27,003
INDIVIDUALS.

3161
01:43:27,003 --> 01:43:28,938
>> THERE'S A GROWING
MOVEMENT TO

3162
01:43:28,938 --> 01:43:30,439
START CONSIDERING SOME OF THESE

3163
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:31,674
APPLICATIONS AND WEARABLES AGAIN

3164
01:43:31,674 --> 01:43:33,176
TEND TO HAVE A PHYSICAL HARDWARE

3165
01:43:33,176 --> 01:43:37,580
COMPONENT AS WELL AS A SOFTWARE

3166
01:43:37,580 --> 01:43:38,681
COMPONENT BUT THERE'S A GROWING

3167
01:43:38,681 --> 01:43:39,649
MOVEMENT TO CONSIDER THESE

3168
01:43:39,649 --> 01:43:41,184
THINGS MORE AS LIKE MEDICINES

3169
01:43:41,184 --> 01:43:42,585
AND THEREFORE SORTED OF

3170
01:43:42,585 --> 01:43:45,021
REQUIRING MORE RESEARCH TO FIND

3171
01:43:45,021 --> 01:43:47,857
OUT REALLY HOW, YOU KNOW, AGAIN,

3172
01:43:47,857 --> 01:43:49,392
IS THIS JUST THE HAWTHORNE

3173
01:43:49,392 --> 01:43:51,194
EFFECT THAT WE WERE LIKE BECAUSE

3174
01:43:51,194 --> 01:43:52,461
WE WERE WATCHING SO WE SAW AND

3175
01:43:52,461 --> 01:43:54,897
THEN WE CHANGED FOR A BIT, BUT

3176
01:43:54,897 --> 01:43:56,866
THEN OUR SORT OF WE GOT BURNED

3177
01:43:56,866 --> 01:43:59,235
OUT ON THAT STIM EXPLUS IT NO

3178
01:43:59,235 --> 01:44:00,436
LONGER WAS EFFECTIVE?

3179
01:44:00,436 --> 01:44:02,205
WE DOAN KNOW FOR A LOT OF

3180
01:44:02,205 --> 01:44:04,173
THIS -- ON THAT STIMULUS AND IT

3181
01:44:04,173 --> 01:44:05,841
NO LONGER WAS EFFECTIVE?

3182
01:44:05,841 --> 01:44:06,943
WE DON'T KNOW FOR A LOT OF THIS

3183
01:44:06,943 --> 01:44:07,143
STUFF.

3184
01:44:07,143 --> 01:44:09,245
>> THE IDEA OF REGULATING
THESE

3185
01:44:09,245 --> 01:44:12,748
AS MEDICINES ALSO BRINGS UP YOUR

3186
01:44:12,748 --> 01:44:16,552
POINT ABOUT BOTH CAUTIONS TO THE

3187
01:44:16,552 --> 01:44:18,521
RESEARCHERS TO KNOW, LIKE, OH, I

3188
01:44:18,521 --> 01:44:21,457
COULD USE THIS FOR THAT, FOR

3189
01:44:21,457 --> 01:44:22,892
THEM TO UNDERSTAND THE DATA

3190
01:44:22,892 --> 01:44:25,528
THAT'S BEING USED TO SEE THAT

3191
01:44:25,528 --> 01:44:27,496
THAT STHING EFFECTIVE IN

3192
01:44:27,496 --> 01:44:28,798
MEASURING -- THAT THING IS

3193
01:44:28,798 --> 01:44:31,334
EFFECTIVE IN MEASURING THE THING

3194
01:44:31,334 --> 01:44:33,436
OF INTEREST, AND FOR US AS

3195
01:44:33,436 --> 01:44:36,272
POTENTIAL PARTICIPANTS OF MAYBE

3196
01:44:36,272 --> 01:44:38,641
ASKING THE INVESTIGATOR, YOU

3197
01:44:38,641 --> 01:44:39,742
KNOW, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT

3198
01:44:39,742 --> 01:44:40,643
THIS TECHNOLOGY?

3199
01:44:40,643 --> 01:44:42,712
WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO USE THIS

3200
01:44:42,712 --> 01:44:45,881
PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY TO FOLLOW

3201
01:44:45,881 --> 01:44:48,384
THIS, OR JUST MY KNOW BEING

3202
01:44:48,384 --> 01:44:50,152
ENOUGH, BEING PRESENTED ENOUGH

3203
01:44:50,152 --> 01:44:51,120
INFORMATION IN THE INFORMED

3204
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:53,356
CONSENT FORM TO APPRECIATE WHAT

3205
01:44:53,356 --> 01:44:56,626
THE LIMITATIONS OF THIS

3206
01:44:56,626 --> 01:45:01,831
TECHNOLOGY ARE.

3207
01:45:01,831 --> 01:45:03,432
>> YEAH, AND I THINK THE
ABILITY

3208
01:45:03,432 --> 01:45:05,167
TO DO REALLY MEANINGFUL INFORMED

3209
01:45:05,167 --> 01:45:06,102
CONSENT, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT

3210
01:45:06,102 --> 01:45:09,205
MIGHT NOT BE REQUIRED IN THIS

3211
01:45:09,205 --> 01:45:10,206
CONTEXT, CONSIDERED MINIMAL

3212
01:45:10,206 --> 01:45:11,607
RISK, CONSIDERED THE KIND OF

3213
01:45:11,607 --> 01:45:13,643
TWHRING AT MOST YOU'RE CLICKING

3214
01:45:13,643 --> 01:45:15,111
A BOX, ACCEPTING THE COOKIES,

3215
01:45:15,111 --> 01:45:16,846
THE FRICTION TO ADOPTION

3216
01:45:16,846 --> 01:45:18,381
COMPARED TO LIKE AN IMPLANTED

3217
01:45:18,381 --> 01:45:21,117
DEVICE IS SO LOW, AND, IN FACT,

3218
01:45:21,117 --> 01:45:22,785
MANY OF THEM HAVE ALREADY BEEN

3219
01:45:22,785 --> 01:45:24,186
ADOPTED, IN FACT, THAT'S WHY WE

3220
01:45:24,186 --> 01:45:26,489
THINK THERE'S THEY'RE A GOOD

3221
01:45:26,489 --> 01:45:27,690
PLATFORM FOR OUR RESEARCH, IT

3222
01:45:27,690 --> 01:45:29,992
REALLY BEGS THE QUESTION OF WELL

3223
01:45:29,992 --> 01:45:31,093
WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE DONE IN

3224
01:45:31,093 --> 01:45:32,828
TERMS OF LIKE ACTUALLY SHARING

3225
01:45:32,828 --> 01:45:33,929
WHAT WE'RE FINDING, SHARING WHAT

3226
01:45:33,929 --> 01:45:35,564
WE'RE DOING WITH IT, SO THAT

3227
01:45:35,564 --> 01:45:37,867
PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND THE

3228
01:45:37,867 --> 01:45:39,302
CONTENT AND THE CONTEXT, RIGHT,

3229
01:45:39,302 --> 01:45:40,803
OF EVEN WHAT BHENT ON THAT FORM

3230
01:45:40,803 --> 01:45:48,978
IN THE FIRST PLACE.

3231
01:45:48,978 --> 01:45:49,945
>> L.

3232
01:45:49,945 --> 01:45:51,747
I WOULD LOVE TO, IF YOU HAVE ANY

3233
01:45:51,747 --> 01:45:52,848
QUESTIONS OR THOUGHT, I WOULD

3234
01:45:52,848 --> 01:45:55,484
LOVE TO HEAR, OR CHALLENGES, I

3235
01:45:55,484 --> 01:45:55,885
WELCOME VERY MUCH.

3236
01:45:55,885 --> 01:45:57,553
>> I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION
FROM

3237
01:45:57,553 --> 01:46:01,057
OUR VIRTUAL AUDIENCE.

3238
01:46:01,057 --> 01:46:03,592
IETA ASKS, IN WEARABLES, SUCH AS

3239
01:46:03,592 --> 01:46:05,428
SMARTWATCHES, IS THERE ANY

3240
01:46:05,428 --> 01:46:07,263
LEGISLATION FOR DATA PROTECTION

3241
01:46:07,263 --> 01:46:10,366
IN THE U.S. AS IN EUROPE THAT

3242
01:46:10,366 --> 01:46:11,767
LEGAL DATA PROTECTION COULD BE

3243
01:46:11,767 --> 01:46:14,503
RELATED TO RESEARCH ETHICS, FOR

3244
01:46:14,503 --> 01:46:14,737
EXAMPLE?

3245
01:46:14,737 --> 01:46:15,971
I DON'T KNOW HOW FLUENT YOU ARE

3246
01:46:15,971 --> 01:46:17,673
IN THE EU RULES ABOUT THIS.

3247
01:46:17,673 --> 01:46:19,975
>> YEAH, IT'S VERY
INTERESTING,

3248
01:46:19,975 --> 01:46:20,309
RIGHT?

3249
01:46:20,309 --> 01:46:26,749
SO A LOT OF THE EU GOVERNANCE,

3250
01:46:26,749 --> 01:46:27,950
YOU KNOW, FROM LIKE A POLITICAL

3251
01:46:27,950 --> 01:46:30,486
SENSE OVER DATA IS FAR STRONGER

3252
01:46:30,486 --> 01:46:31,687
THAN WHAT WE HAVE IN THE UNITED

3253
01:46:31,687 --> 01:46:31,921
STATES.

3254
01:46:31,921 --> 01:46:33,222
AT THE SAME TIME, MOST OF THE

3255
01:46:33,222 --> 01:46:34,623
TECHNOLOGIES ARE COMING FROM

3256
01:46:34,623 --> 01:46:36,092
EITHER U.S. BASED COMPANIES OR,

3257
01:46:36,092 --> 01:46:38,961
YOU KNOW, ELSEWHERE OUTSIDE OF

3258
01:46:38,961 --> 01:46:39,195
EUROPE.

3259
01:46:39,195 --> 01:46:41,831
SO EUROPE KIND OF HAS THIS VERY

3260
01:46:41,831 --> 01:46:42,798
INTERESTING, VERY

3261
01:46:42,798 --> 01:46:43,666
PHILOSOPHICALLY INFORMED

3262
01:46:43,666 --> 01:46:45,000
POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE ON HOW

3263
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,603
THESE DATA COULD BE USED BY THE

3264
01:46:47,603 --> 01:46:48,037
STATE.

3265
01:46:48,037 --> 01:46:49,271
THEY'RE ALSO A LITTLE BIT

3266
01:46:49,271 --> 01:46:51,006
SEPARATED FROM ALL OF THE

3267
01:46:51,006 --> 01:46:54,110
PROCESSES THAT ARE PRODUCING

3268
01:46:54,110 --> 01:46:56,312
THESE TECHNOLOGIES, AND I THINK,

3269
01:46:56,312 --> 01:47:03,419
YOU KNOW, THE BARN DOOR IS BEING

3270
01:47:03,419 --> 01:47:06,355
OPEN AND WHAT NOT BEING

3271
01:47:06,355 --> 01:47:07,323
SOMETHING THAT'S VERY HARD TO

3272
01:47:07,323 --> 01:47:09,291
WRAP BACK IN.

3273
01:47:09,291 --> 01:47:12,161
BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE MAKING

3274
01:47:12,161 --> 01:47:14,230
STRIDES, AND I THINK THAT

3275
01:47:14,230 --> 01:47:16,098
THERE'S SOME DATA PROTECTIONS,

3276
01:47:16,098 --> 01:47:18,701
BUT AGAIN, NOT LIKE THERE ARE

3277
01:47:18,701 --> 01:47:21,103
OVER DATA THAT YOU MIGHT THINK

3278
01:47:21,103 --> 01:47:22,872
OF AS LIKE THE INLTD MA SI OF

3279
01:47:22,872 --> 01:47:25,040
THE DATA -- INTIMACY OF THE DATA

3280
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:28,477
THAT'S COLLECTED FROM THESE

3281
01:47:28,477 --> 01:47:30,212
DEVICES GOES WAY BEYOND WHAT'S

3282
01:47:30,212 --> 01:47:31,280
IN YOUR ELECTRONIC MEDICAL

3283
01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:33,616
RECORD BECAUSE IT'S QUITE

3284
01:47:33,616 --> 01:47:36,118
LITERALLY SENSING WHAT'S IN YOUR

3285
01:47:36,118 --> 01:47:37,753
BODY, IT MIGHT NOT BE VALID BUT

3286
01:47:37,753 --> 01:47:39,054
PEOPLE MIGHT TREAT IT AS SUCH.

3287
01:47:39,054 --> 01:47:40,256
SO I THINK THERE'S A NEED FOR

3288
01:47:40,256 --> 01:47:41,490
CONSUMER DEMAND AND CONSUMER

3289
01:47:41,490 --> 01:47:42,792
AWARENESS AROUND THESE THING AS

3290
01:47:42,792 --> 01:47:46,195
WELL TO SORT OF DRIVE THOSE LIKE

3291
01:47:46,195 --> 01:47:47,329
VERY INCREMENTAL LEGISLATIVE

3292
01:47:47,329 --> 01:47:50,900
CHANGES THAT REALLY REQUIRE A

3293
01:47:50,900 --> 01:47:53,669
CULTURAL CHANGE MORE THAN -- AND

3294
01:47:53,669 --> 01:47:57,706
LIKE NEW EXPECTATIONS, AS

3295
01:47:57,706 --> 01:47:59,775
OPPOSED TO JUST LIKE NEW

3296
01:47:59,775 --> 01:48:01,076
REGULATIONS COMING OUT OF THIN

3297
01:48:01,076 --> 01:48:01,243
AIR.

3298
01:48:01,243 --> 01:48:03,712
YEAH, OR BOTH.

3299
01:48:03,712 --> 01:48:05,681
CAROLINE, YOU GET THE LAST WORD.

3300
01:48:05,681 --> 01:48:07,116
YEAH, THANK YOU FOR
THIS

3301
01:48:07,116 --> 01:48:07,316
TALK.

3302
01:48:07,316 --> 01:48:10,286
IT WAS SUPER-INTERESTING.

3303
01:48:10,286 --> 01:48:13,289
WHAT IT'S BRINGING UP FOR ME I

3304
01:48:13,289 --> 01:48:17,293
THINK IS THIS IDEA OF LIKE

3305
01:48:17,293 --> 01:48:17,960
HYPER-INDIVIDUALIZATION OF

3306
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:19,261
HEALTH DATA AND

3307
01:48:19,261 --> 01:48:21,030
COMMERCIALIZATION OF HELIDATA

3308
01:48:21,030 --> 01:48:23,766
AND KIND OF THE EMERGENCE OF,

3309
01:48:23,766 --> 01:48:27,036
YOU KNOW, ALL OF US PING ACCESS

3310
01:48:27,036 --> 01:48:30,439
TO VERY MINUTE DETAILS OF OUR

3311
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:32,074
HEALTH DATA WHEN IT MIGHT NOT BE

3312
01:48:32,074 --> 01:48:33,275
HELPFUL ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL

3313
01:48:33,275 --> 01:48:34,543
BUT INSTEAD ON A POPULATION

3314
01:48:34,543 --> 01:48:36,178
LEVEL, AND I'M WONDERING YOUR

3315
01:48:36,178 --> 01:48:38,781
THOUGHTS ON, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE

3316
01:48:38,781 --> 01:48:40,449
ENSURE, LIKE OBVIOUSLY WE WANT A

3317
01:48:40,449 --> 01:48:41,951
BIG THING IS THAT WE WANT PEOPLE

3318
01:48:41,951 --> 01:48:43,152
TO HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR

3319
01:48:43,152 --> 01:48:44,119
INDIVIDUAL DATA WHEN IT'S

3320
01:48:44,119 --> 01:48:46,455
CONTRIBUTE TO GO A STUDY, BUT

3321
01:48:46,455 --> 01:48:49,058
ALSO HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT LIKE

3322
01:48:49,058 --> 01:48:50,926
IT'S FRAMED IN SUCH A WAY SO

3323
01:48:50,926 --> 01:48:52,995
THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT --

3324
01:48:52,995 --> 01:48:55,297
OR LIKE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL DATA

3325
01:48:55,297 --> 01:48:57,600
ISN'T ACTUALLY HARMFUL TO THE

3326
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,803
PERSON WHEN IT'S MAYBE NOT -- WE

3327
01:49:00,803 --> 01:49:03,606
DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION ABOUT

3328
01:49:03,606 --> 01:49:04,940
WHETHER OR NOT THIS PARTICULAR

3329
01:49:04,940 --> 01:49:09,011
DATA POINT IS GOING TO BE USEFUL

3330
01:49:09,011 --> 01:49:11,614
ON LIKE AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, IF

3331
01:49:11,614 --> 01:49:13,582
THAT MAKES SENSE.

3332
01:49:13,582 --> 01:49:16,652
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

3333
01:49:16,652 --> 01:49:16,852
SORRY.

3334
01:49:16,852 --> 01:49:18,621
 I WOULD KIND OF GO
ALMOST IN

3335
01:49:18,621 --> 01:49:19,288
REVERSE ORDER.

3336
01:49:19,288 --> 01:49:21,690
SO ONE THING THAT THERE'S A LOT

3337
01:49:21,690 --> 01:49:23,325
OF PATERNALISM IN TERM OF HOW

3338
01:49:23,325 --> 01:49:24,627
THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY VIEWS THE

3339
01:49:24,627 --> 01:49:26,195
IDEA OF GIVING PEOPLE ACCESS TO

3340
01:49:26,195 --> 01:49:27,796
THE DATA THAT WE'VE COLLECTED

3341
01:49:27,796 --> 01:49:29,431
FROM THEM IN THE COURSE OF

3342
01:49:29,431 --> 01:49:30,533
RESEARCH STUDY.

3343
01:49:30,533 --> 01:49:31,433
LARGELY I THINK THAT'S ABOUT

3344
01:49:31,433 --> 01:49:32,535
POWER AND CONTROL OVER THE DATA

3345
01:49:32,535 --> 01:49:34,069
AND JUST SIMPLY NOT WANTING TO

3346
01:49:34,069 --> 01:49:37,673
SHARE IT, AND IS KIND OF ROOTED

3347
01:49:37,673 --> 01:49:39,074
IN TRADITIONAL SORT OFLIKE THE

3348
01:49:39,074 --> 01:49:40,276
SAME REASONS WHY DOCTORS DIDN'T

3349
01:49:40,276 --> 01:49:41,377
WANT PATIENTS TO BE ABLE TO READ

3350
01:49:41,377 --> 01:49:42,912
THEIR NOTES, LIKE OH, IT COULD

3351
01:49:42,912 --> 01:49:45,848
HURT THEM.

3352
01:49:45,848 --> 01:49:47,716
LIKE MM, BUT OKAY, PEOPLE HAVE A

3353
01:49:47,716 --> 01:49:49,118
NEW NORM NOW, RIGHT?

3354
01:49:49,118 --> 01:49:50,452
PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW THE LAB

3355
01:49:50,452 --> 01:49:53,722
RESULTS, THEY WANT TO KNOW THEIR

3356
01:49:53,722 --> 01:49:55,758
DATA, AND THAT HAS THE POTENTIAL

3357
01:49:55,758 --> 01:49:58,260
TO BE HARMFUL BUT SORT OF PEOPLE

3358
01:49:58,260 --> 01:50:01,063
GENERALLY KNOW THAT AND YOU CAN

3359
01:50:01,063 --> 01:50:03,065
SAY THIS ALSO MIGHT NOT BE

3360
01:50:03,065 --> 01:50:04,233
USEFUL, IT MIGHT STRESS YOU OUT

3361
01:50:04,233 --> 01:50:06,201
TO FIND THAT OUT, BUT I THINK

3362
01:50:06,201 --> 01:50:07,369
CONCERNS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL

3363
01:50:07,369 --> 01:50:09,271
HARM OF THAT INFORMATION IS

3364
01:50:09,271 --> 01:50:10,806
NEVER GOING TO BE REALLY A

3365
01:50:10,806 --> 01:50:12,107
LEGITIMATE REASON TO WITHHOLD

3366
01:50:12,107 --> 01:50:12,341
IT.

3367
01:50:12,341 --> 01:50:13,108
THAT'S ONE.

3368
01:50:13,108 --> 01:50:15,177
THEN THE SECOND POINT I THINK

3369
01:50:15,177 --> 01:50:16,412
WHAT'S CRITICAL IS THAT IF YOU

3370
01:50:16,412 --> 01:50:17,913
TRULY PROPERLY CONSIDER

3371
01:50:17,913 --> 01:50:19,515
INCLUDING PARTICIPANTS AS

3372
01:50:19,515 --> 01:50:21,283
MEMBERS OF THE RESEARCH TEAM AND

3373
01:50:21,283 --> 01:50:22,751
THAT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT GIVING

3374
01:50:22,751 --> 01:50:24,153
THEM THEIR OWN DATA, BUT IT'S

3375
01:50:24,153 --> 01:50:25,921
ACTUALLY SAYING LIKE HERE IS THE

3376
01:50:25,921 --> 01:50:29,959
DATASET WE'VE COLLECTED, YOU'RE

3377
01:50:29,959 --> 01:50:32,494
LINE 18 AND, YOU KNOW, HERE IS

3378
01:50:32,494 --> 01:50:33,796
THE DRAFT OUR -- LIKE WE'RE

3379
01:50:33,796 --> 01:50:35,431
DOING RIGHT NOW FOR ONE OF OUR

3380
01:50:35,431 --> 01:50:37,166
PROJECTS, I'M SENDING TO LIKE

3381
01:50:37,166 --> 01:50:38,601
1,000 RESEARCH PARTICIPANTS THE

3382
01:50:38,601 --> 01:50:39,768
DRAFT THE MANUSCRIPT THAT I'M

3383
01:50:39,768 --> 01:50:40,803
WRITING ABOUT THE STUDY THAT

3384
01:50:40,803 --> 01:50:43,305
THEY PARTICIPATED IN, AND FOR

3385
01:50:43,305 --> 01:50:45,507
THEIR COMMENTS, FEEDBACK,

3386
01:50:45,507 --> 01:50:48,077
THOUGHTS, LIKE IT'S KIND OF

3387
01:50:48,077 --> 01:50:49,778
NERVE WRACKING, AND I'M SENDING

3388
01:50:49,778 --> 01:50:51,714
THEM THE DATASETS DEIDENTIFIED,

3389
01:50:51,714 --> 01:50:53,048
OF COURSE, WITH THE ABILITY TO

3390
01:50:53,048 --> 01:50:55,250
PERSONAL AM IDENTIFY THEMSELVES

3391
01:50:55,250 --> 01:50:57,019
WITHIN THE DATA THAT ACTUALLY

3392
01:50:57,019 --> 01:51:02,157
SAYS, WELL, TREAT THEM LIKE TRUE

3393
01:51:02,157 --> 01:51:03,525
COLLABORATORS, AND THEY CAN, YOU

3394
01:51:03,525 --> 01:51:05,327
KNOW, SOME OF THEM ARE VERY

3395
01:51:05,327 --> 01:51:06,428
SOPHISTICATED, SOME OF THEM HAVE

3396
01:51:06,428 --> 01:51:08,063
AI TOOLS THAT ARE VERY

3397
01:51:08,063 --> 01:51:08,931
SOPHISTICATED THIS THEY MIGHT

3398
01:51:08,931 --> 01:51:10,032
WANT TO LOOK AT THAT DATA

3399
01:51:10,032 --> 01:51:11,367
THEMSELVES OR AT LEAST HAVE THE

3400
01:51:11,367 --> 01:51:14,737
ABILITY TO OR THE ABILITY TO

3401
01:51:14,737 --> 01:51:17,006
OBTAIN ANOTHER OPINION.

3402
01:51:17,006 --> 01:51:18,507
I THINK IT'S PARTIALLY ABOUT

3403
01:51:18,507 --> 01:51:22,978
REALLY JUST BASIC INCLUSION, AND

3404
01:51:22,978 --> 01:51:24,580
AGAIN, THE STRUCTURES THAT MIGHT

3405
01:51:24,580 --> 01:51:25,714
PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING I

3406
01:51:25,714 --> 01:51:27,750
THINK HAVE A LOT MORE TO DO WITH

3407
01:51:27,750 --> 01:51:29,518
THE PROPRIETARY NATURE OF THAT

3408
01:51:29,518 --> 01:51:30,753
DATA AND NOT ABOUT LIKE WHAT WE

3409
01:51:30,753 --> 01:51:32,154
THINK IS ACTUALLY GOOD FOR

3410
01:51:32,154 --> 01:51:35,324
PEOPLE, WHAT WE THINK IS

3411
01:51:35,324 --> 01:51:36,425
ACTUALLY JUST.

3412
01:51:36,425 --> 01:51:40,129
>> YEAH, THANK YOU.

3413
01:51:40,129 --> 01:51:41,130
>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE

3414
01:51:41,130 --> 01:51:43,198
TO CUT OFF.

3415
01:51:43,198 --> 01:51:44,166
>> WE CAN TALK MORE.

3416
01:51:44,166 --> 01:51:45,668
>> BUT THIS IS A GREAT
DOFERTION

3417
01:51:45,668 --> 01:51:47,269
PICK UP WHEN WE ALL MEET THE

3418
01:51:47,269 --> 01:51:48,170
FELLOWS AND YOU.

3419
01:51:48,170 --> 01:51:49,538
KEEP ALL THAT IN MIND.

3420
01:51:49,538 --> 01:51:50,372
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

3421
01:51:50,372 --> 01:51:52,741
THANK YOU.

3422
01:51:52,741 --> 01:51:59,214
[APPLAUSE]

3423
01:51:59,214 --> 01:52:02,818
>> THANKS, EVERYBODY, IT'S

3424
01:52:02,818 --> 01:52:03,018
10:23.

3425
01:52:03,018 --> 01:52:04,653
WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK

3426
01:52:04,653 --> 01:52:07,623
TOGETHER AT 10:35 FOR OUR THIRD

3427
01:52:07,623 --> 01:52:10,893
LECTURE TODAY, WHICH IS BE ON

3428
01:52:10,893 --> 01:52:11,427
GENERATIVE ARTIFICIAL

3429
01:52:11,427 --> 01:52:12,961
INTELLIGENCE AND LARGE LANGUAGE

3430
01:52:12,961 --> 01:52:13,195
MODELS.

3431
01:52:13,195 --> 01:52:14,695
THANK YOU.

3432
01:52:16,690 --> 01:52:19,260
WELCOME BACK EVERYONE, THIS IS A

3433
01:52:19,260 --> 01:52:20,461
BITTERSWEET LAST LECTURE IN OUR

3434
01:52:20,461 --> 01:52:23,864
CLASS THIS YEAR.

3435
01:52:23,864 --> 01:52:27,401
IT'S MY PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE

3436
01:52:27,401 --> 01:52:29,336
VASILIKI RAHIMZADEH, WE GET TO

3437
01:52:29,336 --> 01:52:31,805
CALL HER VASO, SHE IS AN

3438
01:52:31,805 --> 01:52:32,573
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE

3439
01:52:32,573 --> 01:52:34,174
CENTER FOR MEDICAL ETHICS AND

3440
01:52:34,174 --> 01:52:37,111
HEALTH POLICY AT BAYLOR MEDICAL

3441
01:52:37,111 --> 01:52:38,646
COLLEGE, AND SHE INVESTIGATES

3442
01:52:38,646 --> 01:52:40,948
THE ETHICAL, LEGAL AND SOCIAL

3443
01:52:40,948 --> 01:52:44,118
ISSUES OF HEALTH DATA SHARING

3444
01:52:44,118 --> 01:52:45,853
ACROSS EMERGING COMPUTING

3445
01:52:45,853 --> 01:52:46,186
ENVIRONMENTS.

3446
01:52:46,186 --> 01:52:48,055
THE GOALS OF HER RESEARCH ARE TO

3447
01:52:48,055 --> 01:52:49,790
INFORM DATA GOVERNANCE POLICY

3448
01:52:49,790 --> 01:52:51,892
AND PRACTICE, WHICH MAXIMIZES

3449
01:52:51,892 --> 01:52:53,661
THE SCIENTIFIC VALUE OF HEALTH

3450
01:52:53,661 --> 01:52:55,496
DATA AND RESPECTS THE RIGHTS AND

3451
01:52:55,496 --> 01:52:57,464
INTERESTS OF INDIVIDUALS AND

3452
01:52:57,464 --> 01:52:57,765
COMMUNITIES.

3453
01:52:57,765 --> 01:53:02,069
AND QUICK SIDE NOTE, VASO IS THE

3454
01:53:02,069 --> 01:53:03,837
CO-CHAIR OR CHAIRS THE ASTRO

3455
01:53:03,837 --> 01:53:05,573
ETHICS AFFINITY GROUP, WHICH

3456
01:53:05,573 --> 01:53:06,674
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE HER COME

3457
01:53:06,674 --> 01:53:08,642
BACK AND TALK ABOUT ASTRO ETHIC

3458
01:53:08,642 --> 01:53:09,643
AT A LATER TIME.

3459
01:53:09,643 --> 01:53:11,278
SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO HAND

3460
01:53:11,278 --> 01:53:17,785
IT OVER TO VASO.

3461
01:53:17,785 --> 01:53:19,453
>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.

3462
01:53:19,453 --> 01:53:20,588
YOU CAN HEAR ME OKAY?

3463
01:53:20,588 --> 01:53:21,922
THANKS SO MUCH FOR THAT

3464
01:53:21,922 --> 01:53:23,991
SUPER-KIND INTRODUCTION AND FOR

3465
01:53:23,991 --> 01:53:25,092
HAVING ME WITH YOU TODAY.

3466
01:53:25,092 --> 01:53:30,064
I WISH I COULD BE THERE IN

3467
01:53:30,064 --> 01:53:31,799
PERSON, YET COVID STRIKES AGAIN,

3468
01:53:31,799 --> 01:53:34,301
WE ARE CONTINUING TO LIVE WITH

3469
01:53:34,301 --> 01:53:34,568
IT.

3470
01:53:34,568 --> 01:53:36,937
BUT THANKS TO TECHNOLOGY, I'M

3471
01:53:36,937 --> 01:53:38,906
ABLE TO STILL BE ABLE TO SHARE

3472
01:53:38,906 --> 01:53:40,574
HAD SOME THOUGHTS AND SOME

3473
01:53:40,574 --> 01:53:43,110
DISCUSSIONS WITH YOU TODAY ABOUT

3474
01:53:43,110 --> 01:53:46,146
THE ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS OF

3475
01:53:46,146 --> 01:53:49,316
USING GENERATIVE AI FOR RESEARCH

3476
01:53:49,316 --> 01:53:53,587
WITH HUMAN SUBJECTS.

3477
01:53:53,587 --> 01:53:56,890
SO, YOU KNOW, I'LL START OFF BY

3478
01:53:56,890 --> 01:53:59,259
SAYING WE'RE REALLY IN QUITE AN

3479
01:53:59,259 --> 01:54:01,028
UNPRECEDENTED ERA AS FAR AS

3480
01:54:01,028 --> 01:54:02,663
ADVANCEMENTS IN AI ARE

3481
01:54:02,663 --> 01:54:03,097
CONCERNED.

3482
01:54:03,097 --> 01:54:06,500
SO THE INTEGRATION OF GENERATIVE

3483
01:54:06,500 --> 01:54:07,835
AI IN SPECIFIC AND WE'LL TALK

3484
01:54:07,835 --> 01:54:12,106
ABOUT LLM'S OR LARGE LANGUAGE

3485
01:54:12,106 --> 01:54:15,242
MODELS IN PARTICULAR HAS THIS

3486
01:54:15,242 --> 01:54:16,577
REALLY UNIQUE ABILITY TO

3487
01:54:16,577 --> 01:54:18,412
TRANSFORM QUITE LITERALLY HOW WE

3488
01:54:18,412 --> 01:54:20,848
DO CLINICAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCE,

3489
01:54:20,848 --> 01:54:22,716
ENHANCING BOTH THE PRECISION AND

3490
01:54:22,716 --> 01:54:23,917
EFFICIENCY OF SOME OF THOSE

3491
01:54:23,917 --> 01:54:25,853
CLINICAL STUDIES, WHILE ALSO

3492
01:54:25,853 --> 01:54:27,454
POTENTIALLY ENABLING BROADER

3493
01:54:27,454 --> 01:54:29,423
REACH AND REPRESENTATION OF

3494
01:54:29,423 --> 01:54:31,825
PARTICIPANT POPULATIONS THAT WE

3495
01:54:31,825 --> 01:54:34,194
KNOW HAVE BEEN UNDERREPRESENTED

3496
01:54:34,194 --> 01:54:35,996
IN RESEARCH TO DATE.

3497
01:54:35,996 --> 01:54:41,902
BUT AS WITH ANY TECHNOLOGICAL

3498
01:54:41,902 --> 01:54:43,003
ADVANCES, GENERATIVE AI IN

3499
01:54:43,003 --> 01:54:45,272
SPECIFIC HAS RAISED SOME

3500
01:54:45,272 --> 01:54:47,274
ADDITIONAL RESEARCH ETHICS,

3501
01:54:47,274 --> 01:54:49,677
TENSIONS, ALBEIT MANIFESTING IN

3502
01:54:49,677 --> 01:54:51,945
NOVEL WAYS AND HAVE ALSO RAISED

3503
01:54:51,945 --> 01:54:53,714
ENTIRELY NEW ETHICAL ISSUES

3504
01:54:53,714 --> 01:54:55,449
WHERE OUR EXISTING FRAMEWORKS

3505
01:54:55,449 --> 01:54:57,785
MAY BE INSUFFICIENT TO REALLY

3506
01:54:57,785 --> 01:55:01,255
HELP US FIND ALL THE ANSWERS.

3507
01:55:01,255 --> 01:55:02,923
SO I HOPE TO EXPLORE AND DISSECT

3508
01:55:02,923 --> 01:55:04,425
SOME OF THOSE ISSUES WITH YOU

3509
01:55:04,425 --> 01:55:07,161
TODAY IN PRAGMATIC WAYS THAT

3510
01:55:07,161 --> 01:55:09,029
REALLY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT SOME OF

3511
01:55:09,029 --> 01:55:10,864
THOSE REALISTIC AREAS THAT AI

3512
01:55:10,864 --> 01:55:13,600
CAN HELP IN MAKING HUMAN

3513
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:15,936
SUBJECTS RESEARCH MORE RIGOROUS

3514
01:55:15,936 --> 01:55:18,672
AND TRUSTWORTHY BUT ALSO

3515
01:55:18,672 --> 01:55:19,873
ACKNOWLEDGING THEIR VERY REAL

3516
01:55:19,873 --> 01:55:20,174
LIMITATION.

3517
01:55:20,174 --> 01:55:21,842
SO I AM GOING TO ARGUE TODAY

3518
01:55:21,842 --> 01:55:24,011
REALLY AT THE VERY CORE OF THE

3519
01:55:24,011 --> 01:55:26,113
INTERSECTION OF MACHINE AND

3520
01:55:26,113 --> 01:55:27,748
INTELLIGENCE AND HUMAN HEALTH

3521
01:55:27,748 --> 01:55:29,283
RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT CONSENT

3522
01:55:29,283 --> 01:55:32,352
AND TRANSPARENCY AND PRIVACY AND

3523
01:55:32,352 --> 01:55:34,121
EQUITY, AS WELL AS THE OVERALL

3524
01:55:34,121 --> 01:55:37,791
INTEGRITY OF THE SCIENTIFIC

3525
01:55:37,791 --> 01:55:38,058
ENDEAVOR.

3526
01:55:38,058 --> 01:55:40,094
AND I'M GOING TO START OFF WITH

3527
01:55:40,094 --> 01:55:42,496
A VERY SIMPLE TEMPERATURE CHECK

3528
01:55:42,496 --> 01:55:46,233
OF YOU ALL IN THE ROOM AND

3529
01:55:46,233 --> 01:55:48,736
ONLINE, AND I'M GOING TO SWITCH

3530
01:55:48,736 --> 01:55:58,746
SCREENS FOR THIS.

3531
01:55:58,746 --> 01:56:00,347
I'M GOING TO ASK YOU VERY

3532
01:56:00,347 --> 01:56:01,415
SIMPLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WORDS

3533
01:56:01,415 --> 01:56:03,984
COME TO MIND WHEN YOU THINK OF

3534
01:56:03,984 --> 01:56:05,219
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE?

3535
01:56:05,219 --> 01:56:07,321
THEY CAN BE IN THE HEALTH SPACE,

3536
01:56:07,321 --> 01:56:11,992
THEY CAN BE IN THE RESEARCH

3537
01:56:11,992 --> 01:56:13,327
SPACE, AND THE WAY THAT YOU

3538
01:56:13,327 --> 01:56:15,496
ANSWER THIS POLL IS BY GOING ON

3539
01:56:15,496 --> 01:56:18,766
YOUR SMART DEVICE OR ON YOUR

3540
01:56:18,766 --> 01:56:25,239
LAPTOP TO

3541
01:56:25,239 --> 01:56:25,873
POLLEV.COM/NIHBIOETHICS, YOU CAN

3542
01:56:25,873 --> 01:56:27,541
SUBMIT YOUR ANSWERS VIA E IT OR

3543
01:56:27,541 --> 01:56:36,617
YOU CAN SIMPLY SCAN THE QR CODE.

3544
01:56:36,617 --> 01:56:38,252
I'LL GIVE PEOPLE A FEW MINIMUM

3545
01:56:38,252 --> 01:56:40,754
TTS TO DO THAT, OR 30 SECONDS,

3546
01:56:40,754 --> 01:56:43,290
WE'LL SAY -- A FEW MINUTES TO DO

3547
01:56:43,290 --> 01:56:44,925
THAT OR 30 SECONDS, WE'LL SAY,

3548
01:56:44,925 --> 01:56:55,135
TO DO THAT.

3549
01:57:04,244 --> 01:57:14,321
[PAUSE]

3550
01:57:16,223 --> 01:57:17,958
ALL RIGHT.

3551
01:57:17,958 --> 01:57:21,195
WE'LL SEE HOW WE'RE GOING.

3552
01:57:21,195 --> 01:57:22,062
NICE.

3553
01:57:22,062 --> 01:57:25,465
SO CHATGPT REALLY REIGNING

3554
01:57:25,465 --> 01:57:27,434
SUPREME HERE.

3555
01:57:27,434 --> 01:57:29,303
ROBOTS, WE'VE GOT REPLACEMENT, I

3556
01:57:29,303 --> 01:57:34,575
THINK THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

3557
01:57:34,575 --> 01:57:38,445
COMPUTERIZED, WE'LL KEEP GOING.

3558
01:57:38,445 --> 01:57:46,286
I LOVE IT.

3559
01:57:46,286 --> 01:57:54,394
FIVE MORE SECONDS.

3560
01:57:54,394 --> 01:57:54,962
OKAY.

3561
01:57:54,962 --> 01:57:56,396
SUPER.

3562
01:57:56,396 --> 01:57:58,465
ROBOTS, CHATGPT, MACHINES REALLY

3563
01:57:58,465 --> 01:58:01,802
KIND OF COMING TO THE FORE HERE

3564
01:58:01,802 --> 01:58:04,605
WITH SOME GREAT ONES I HAVEN'T

3565
01:58:04,605 --> 01:58:08,175
HEARD WHEN I HAVE DONE THIS

3566
01:58:08,175 --> 01:58:10,177
ACTIVITY BEFORE, SO THINGS LIKE

3567
01:58:10,177 --> 01:58:15,883
I THINK I SEE CYBORGS AND

3568
01:58:15,883 --> 01:58:16,850
INVASIVENESS, REALLY

3569
01:58:16,850 --> 01:58:20,354
INTERESTING, UNPREDICTABLE,

3570
01:58:20,354 --> 01:58:23,357
UNBELIEVABLE, I SEE

3571
01:58:23,357 --> 01:58:25,092
DISCRIMINATORY, ALEXA KIND OF

3572
01:58:25,092 --> 01:58:27,294
PEEPING IN THERE, THAT'S REALLY

3573
01:58:27,294 --> 01:58:27,527
AWESOME.

3574
01:58:27,527 --> 01:58:29,563
SO YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S

3575
01:58:29,563 --> 01:58:32,199
REALLY INTERESTING TO HIGHLIGHT,

3576
01:58:32,199 --> 01:58:34,501
YOU KNOW, HOW MANY ASSOCIATIONS

3577
01:58:34,501 --> 01:58:35,802
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS IN

3578
01:58:35,802 --> 01:58:38,238
THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS TO

3579
01:58:38,238 --> 01:58:39,907
DATE, YOU KNOW, THE WAY WE'RE

3580
01:58:39,907 --> 01:58:41,008
EXPOSED TO THESE TECHNOLOGIES

3581
01:58:41,008 --> 01:58:43,610
ARE REALLY A FEATURE OF THE

3582
01:58:43,610 --> 01:58:45,913
MEDIA WE CONSUME, THE

3583
01:58:45,913 --> 01:58:48,548
TECHNOLOGIES AND THE AREAS OF

3584
01:58:48,548 --> 01:58:51,084
RESEARCH WE HAVE MOST PROXIMITY

3585
01:58:51,084 --> 01:58:55,455
TO, AND I THINK THIS WORD CLOUD

3586
01:58:55,455 --> 01:58:57,291
EXERCISE REALLY HELPS KIND OF

3587
01:58:57,291 --> 01:58:59,159
UNVEIL SOME OF THOSE EXPOSURES

3588
01:58:59,159 --> 01:59:00,928
WITHIN THE BROADER PUBLIC.

3589
01:59:00,928 --> 01:59:02,462
SO THANKS FOR THAT.

3590
01:59:02,462 --> 01:59:05,399
WE'RE GOING TO DO ONE MORE, AND

3591
01:59:05,399 --> 01:59:08,468
THIS NEXT QUESTION I HAVEN'T

3592
01:59:08,468 --> 01:59:10,337
POSED BEFORE, BUT I THINK IS

3593
01:59:10,337 --> 01:59:12,706
REALLY ONE THAT'S TOP OF MIND

3594
01:59:12,706 --> 01:59:14,708
FOR US AS EARLY CAREER

3595
01:59:14,708 --> 01:59:17,544
RESEARCHERS AND THOSE WHO WILL

3596
01:59:17,544 --> 01:59:19,846
REALLY ENTER INTO THE RESEARCH

3597
01:59:19,846 --> 01:59:22,683
ENDEAVOR WITH SOME OF THESE

3598
01:59:22,683 --> 01:59:23,784
TECHNOLOGIES BEING VERY

3599
01:59:23,784 --> 01:59:25,419
INTEGRATED, AND THAT'S, WOULD

3600
01:59:25,419 --> 01:59:29,456
YOU EVER CONSIDER USING CHATGPT

3601
01:59:29,456 --> 01:59:31,525
TO DRAFT A SPECIFIC AIMS PAGE

3602
01:59:31,525 --> 01:59:35,896
FOR AN NIH GRANT YOU MIGHT BE

3603
01:59:35,896 --> 01:59:36,330
SUBMITTING?

3604
01:59:36,330 --> 01:59:38,098
AND THIS IS COMPLETELY

3605
01:59:38,098 --> 01:59:39,700
ANONYMOUS, SO NOBODY, NONE OF

3606
01:59:39,700 --> 01:59:41,702
THE PROGRAM OFFICERS ACROSS THE

3607
01:59:41,702 --> 01:59:46,473
WAY ON CAMPUS WILL KNOW WHAT YOU

3608
01:59:46,473 --> 01:59:50,711
WROTE HERE, BUT I AM

3609
01:59:50,711 --> 01:59:54,014
SUPER-CURIOUS TO HEAR WHETHER

3610
01:59:54,014 --> 02:00:00,354
YOU WOULD CONSIDER DOING THIS.

3611
02:00:00,354 --> 02:00:10,764
[PAUSE] HAD WE'LL GIVE.

3612
02:00:13,667 --> 02:00:16,536
WE'LL GIVE IT JUST A FEW MORE

3613
02:00:16,536 --> 02:00:16,770
SECONDS.

3614
02:00:16,770 --> 02:00:17,871
ALL RIGHT.

3615
02:00:17,871 --> 02:00:18,872
REALLY INTERESTING.

3616
02:00:18,872 --> 02:00:19,406
ALL RIGHT.

3617
02:00:19,406 --> 02:00:24,644
SO WE'VE GOT 71% WOULD CONSIDER

3618
02:00:24,644 --> 02:00:27,614
USING IT, AND AROUND 20%, ABOUT

3619
02:00:27,614 --> 02:00:29,916
20% SAYING NO, AND THAT A

3620
02:00:29,916 --> 02:00:31,585
HEALTHY 10% I'M NOT SURE.

3621
02:00:31,585 --> 02:00:35,288
SO THANKS ARE FOR ENGAGING IN

3622
02:00:35,288 --> 02:00:38,125
THAT EXERCISING I THINK WE'LL

3623
02:00:38,125 --> 02:00:39,226
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT

3624
02:00:39,226 --> 02:00:40,994
MIGHT BE SOME OF THE ETHICAL

3625
02:00:40,994 --> 02:00:44,931
RATIONALES FOR WHY IT MIGHT BE

3626
02:00:44,931 --> 02:00:48,001
APPROPRIATE OR ACCEPTABLE TO USE

3627
02:00:48,001 --> 02:00:50,070
CHATGPT IN WRITING GRANT

3628
02:00:50,070 --> 02:00:51,705
PROPOSALS OR IN THE GRANT

3629
02:00:51,705 --> 02:00:53,573
WRITING PROCESS AND WHAT

3630
02:00:53,573 --> 02:00:56,209
CHALLENGES THAT MIGHT POSE.

3631
02:00:56,209 --> 02:00:58,812
SO THANKS FOR THAT.

3632
02:00:58,812 --> 02:01:05,218
I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO MY

3633
02:01:05,218 --> 02:01:06,820
PRESENTATION.

3634
02:01:06,820 --> 02:01:10,490
ALL RIGHT.

3635
02:01:10,490 --> 02:01:12,025
SO, YOU KNOW, TODAY I'M REALLY

3636
02:01:12,025 --> 02:01:15,629
GOING TO START BY RIGHT OUT THE

3637
02:01:15,629 --> 02:01:16,930
GIT-GO SHARING TWO UNDERLYING

3638
02:01:16,930 --> 02:01:19,766
POSITIONS I HOLD WITH RESPECT TO

3639
02:01:19,766 --> 02:01:21,401
GENERATIVE AI AND ENABLING

3640
02:01:21,401 --> 02:01:22,769
RESPONSIBLE CONDUCT OF RESEARCH.

3641
02:01:22,769 --> 02:01:24,771
THE FIRST IS THAT GENERATIVE AI

3642
02:01:24,771 --> 02:01:26,273
CAN ADVANCE ETHICAL HUMAN

3643
02:01:26,273 --> 02:01:28,442
SUBJECTS RESEARCH WHEN APPLIED

3644
02:01:28,442 --> 02:01:31,411
IN WAYS THAT COMPLEMENT HUMAN EN

3645
02:01:31,411 --> 02:01:34,581
DEFERS TO ENSURE -- ENDEAVORS TO

3646
02:01:34,581 --> 02:01:36,883
ENSURE RIGOR AND TRUSTWORTHINESS

3647
02:01:36,883 --> 02:01:38,552
WITHIN THE RESEARCH ECOSYSTEM

3648
02:01:38,552 --> 02:01:39,953
AND ACROSS RESEARCH PROCESSES,

3649
02:01:39,953 --> 02:01:42,389
AND I REALLY BELIEVE IT'S OUR

3650
02:01:42,389 --> 02:01:44,991
JOB AS BIOETHICIST, AS PEOPLE,

3651
02:01:44,991 --> 02:01:48,395
AS RESEARCHERS WHO INVOLVE

3652
02:01:48,395 --> 02:01:50,263
HUMANS IN THE RESEARCH WE DO TO

3653
02:01:50,263 --> 02:01:52,332
IDENTIFY, YOU KNOW, REALLY WHEN

3654
02:01:52,332 --> 02:01:54,401
AND WHERE RIGOR AND

3655
02:01:54,401 --> 02:01:56,169
TRUSTWORTHINESS ARE MOST

3656
02:01:56,169 --> 02:01:58,572
THREATENED BY GENERATIVE AI AND

3657
02:01:58,572 --> 02:02:01,241
LLM'S IN PARTICULAR, AND HOW TO

3658
02:02:01,241 --> 02:02:05,378
MITIGATE THOSE THREATS.

3659
02:02:05,378 --> 02:02:07,581
AND THE SECOND IS THAT, YOU

3660
02:02:07,581 --> 02:02:09,916
KNOW, REGARDLESS ABOUT OUR OWN

3661
02:02:09,916 --> 02:02:11,651
BELIEFS OF THE TECHNOLOGY, WE DO

3662
02:02:11,651 --> 02:02:14,421
HAVE THIS RESPONSIBILITY TO

3663
02:02:14,421 --> 02:02:17,157
UNDERSTAND ITS IMPACT ON

3664
02:02:17,157 --> 02:02:17,524
RESEARCH.

3665
02:02:17,524 --> 02:02:19,392
SO MY SECOND POSITION, MY SECOND

3666
02:02:19,392 --> 02:02:21,461
POINT IS THAT THE RESEARCH

3667
02:02:21,461 --> 02:02:22,996
ETHICS COMMUNITY HAS AN

3668
02:02:22,996 --> 02:02:24,097
ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT ROLE TO

3669
02:02:24,097 --> 02:02:28,802
PLAY IN HOW GENERATIVE AI IS NOT

3670
02:02:28,802 --> 02:02:30,770
ONLY DEVELOPED AND INNOVATED BUT

3671
02:02:30,770 --> 02:02:32,973
ALSO THAT WE NEED ETHICISTS TO

3672
02:02:32,973 --> 02:02:34,941
BE PRESENT ON THE GROUND FLOOR

3673
02:02:34,941 --> 02:02:37,878
OF THIS DEVELOPMENT TO ALSO

3674
02:02:37,878 --> 02:02:40,413
RESPONSIBLY SHAPE ITS

3675
02:02:40,413 --> 02:02:40,780
IMPLEMENTATION.

3676
02:02:40,780 --> 02:02:43,717
SO IN THE COURSE OF THE NECK --

3677
02:02:43,717 --> 02:02:45,452
IN THE COURSE OF NEXT 30 MINIMUM

3678
02:02:45,452 --> 02:02:47,521
TTS OR 60 MINUTES WE HAVE

3679
02:02:47,521 --> 02:02:49,256
TOGETHER, I HOPE WHAT WE DISCUSS

3680
02:02:49,256 --> 02:02:51,358
WILL INSPIRE SOME PERSONAL

3681
02:02:51,358 --> 02:02:52,759
REFLECTION ON SEVERAL KEY

3682
02:02:52,759 --> 02:02:54,728
QUESTIONS THAT I'VE BEEN ASKING

3683
02:02:54,728 --> 02:02:56,363
MYSELF, WHICH PRIMARILY IS, YOU

3684
02:02:56,363 --> 02:02:58,665
KNOW, IS IT EVER ETHICAL TO USE

3685
02:02:58,665 --> 02:03:01,968
GENERATIVE AI IN LLM'S IN

3686
02:03:01,968 --> 02:03:04,271
PARTICULAR TO DESIGN AND/OR

3687
02:03:04,271 --> 02:03:06,439
CONDUCT AND/OR DISSEMINATE OR

3688
02:03:06,439 --> 02:03:08,408
PEER REVIEW RESEARCH?

3689
02:03:08,408 --> 02:03:11,945
AND IF SO, WHEN AND HOW?

3690
02:03:11,945 --> 02:03:13,246
SO I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO

3691
02:03:13,246 --> 02:03:15,649
DEMONSTRATE THAT IT CAN BE, WHEN

3692
02:03:15,649 --> 02:03:18,485
IT DOESN'T VIOLATE REALLY

3693
02:03:18,485 --> 02:03:20,020
CROSS-CUTTING ETHICAL PRINCIPLES

3694
02:03:20,020 --> 02:03:22,989
AND PRIORITIES THAT UNDERGIRD

3695
02:03:22,989 --> 02:03:28,562
RESEARCH RIGOR AND SOCIALLY JUST

3696
02:03:28,562 --> 02:03:30,764
SCIENCE.

3697
02:03:30,764 --> 02:03:32,499
I'VE MOSTLY BEEN THINKING ABOUT

3698
02:03:32,499 --> 02:03:34,701
LLM'S IN THE CONTEXT OF

3699
02:03:34,701 --> 02:03:35,936
BIOETHICS AND LEARNING, I

3700
02:03:35,936 --> 02:03:38,338
RECENTLY PUBLISHED A PAPER WITH

3701
02:03:38,338 --> 02:03:39,206
COLLEAGUES ON THE CENTER FOR

3702
02:03:39,206 --> 02:03:41,908
MEDICAL ETHICS AND HEALTH POLICY

3703
02:03:41,908 --> 02:03:43,543
AT BAYLOR THINKING ABOUT WHAT

3704
02:03:43,543 --> 02:03:45,779
SOME APPLICABLE USES OF CHATGPT

3705
02:03:45,779 --> 02:03:47,280
TO BIOETHICS TEACHING AND

3706
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:48,181
LEARNING MIGHT BE, BUT PREPARING

3707
02:03:48,181 --> 02:03:49,916
FOR THIS TALK REALLY RAISED

3708
02:03:49,916 --> 02:03:50,884
ACTUALLY SOME NEW QUESTIONS

3709
02:03:50,884 --> 02:03:53,753
ABOUT HOW WE AS THE RESEARCH

3710
02:03:53,753 --> 02:03:55,155
COMMUNITY CONCEPTUALIZE THINGS

3711
02:03:55,155 --> 02:04:00,660
LIKE NOVELTY AND ATTRIBUTION IN

3712
02:04:00,660 --> 02:04:02,195
RESEARCH AND HOW THAT'S POSING

3713
02:04:02,195 --> 02:04:05,232
NEW CHALLENGES AND ISSUES WHEN

3714
02:04:05,232 --> 02:04:09,302
USING THINGS LIKE DHAT GPT TO --

3715
02:04:09,302 --> 02:04:10,570
CHATGPT TO HELP US POSE NEW

3716
02:04:10,570 --> 02:04:12,239
RESEARCH QUESTIONS, MAYBE

3717
02:04:12,239 --> 02:04:13,273
EXPRESS IDEAS THROUGH RESEARCH

3718
02:04:13,273 --> 02:04:15,208
ARTICLES AND OTHER TEXTS AND HOW

3719
02:04:15,208 --> 02:04:16,876
IT HELPS SUPPORT US DOING THAT

3720
02:04:16,876 --> 02:04:18,178
AND WHETHER THIS QUESTION ABOUT

3721
02:04:18,178 --> 02:04:19,312
WHETHER HUMANS ARE REALLY THE

3722
02:04:19,312 --> 02:04:21,448
ONLY ONES THAT ARE CAPABLE OF

3723
02:04:21,448 --> 02:04:27,387
THIS NOVELTY.

3724
02:04:27,387 --> 02:04:29,656
I'VE ORK NILESED MY REFLECTIONS

3725
02:04:29,656 --> 02:04:33,827
ON LLM'S ON FOUR LIFETIMES,

3726
02:04:33,827 --> 02:04:34,728
STARTING WITH RESEARCH DESIGN

3727
02:04:34,728 --> 02:04:36,663
THROUGH TO A SCIENTIFIC AND

3728
02:04:36,663 --> 02:04:40,834
ETHICS PEER REVIEW AND ONTO THE

3729
02:04:40,834 --> 02:04:42,669
ACTUAL CONDUCT OF RESEARCH AND

3730
02:04:42,669 --> 02:04:44,237
FINALLY DISSEMINATION OF

3731
02:04:44,237 --> 02:04:45,005
RESEARCH PRODUCTS.

3732
02:04:45,005 --> 02:04:47,440
SO FOLLOWING EACH SECTION, I'LL

3733
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:49,609
PROVIDE WHAT I'M CALLING AN

3734
02:04:49,609 --> 02:04:51,278
EMERGENT APPLICATION OR AN

3735
02:04:51,278 --> 02:04:53,246
EVOLVING USE CASE OF AN LLM THAT

3736
02:04:53,246 --> 02:04:54,781
REALLY PUTS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES

3737
02:04:54,781 --> 02:05:00,687
WE DISCUSS INTO RELIEF.

3738
02:05:00,687 --> 02:05:01,988
I PROPOSE AT LEAST WE SHOULD

3739
02:05:01,988 --> 02:05:04,024
CONSIDER FIVE ETHICAL PRIORITIES

3740
02:05:04,024 --> 02:05:06,159
THAT CAN HELP US GUIDE WHETHER,

3741
02:05:06,159 --> 02:05:08,762
HOW AND WHY WE USE LLM'S FOR

3742
02:05:08,762 --> 02:05:12,165
RESEARCH AT ANY STAGE IN THE

3743
02:05:12,165 --> 02:05:13,366
RESEARCH PROCESS.

3744
02:05:13,366 --> 02:05:15,135
SO I'VE ORGANIZED THEM IN TERMS

3745
02:05:15,135 --> 02:05:18,972
OF RIGOR AND CREDIBILITY, DATA

3746
02:05:18,972 --> 02:05:20,940
FELT, WHICH IS A COMBINATION OF

3747
02:05:20,940 --> 02:05:23,009
BOTH THE QUALITY AND THE

3748
02:05:23,009 --> 02:05:24,978
SUFFICIENCY OF THAT DATA TO

3749
02:05:24,978 --> 02:05:27,814
ANSWER SCIENTIFIC QUESTIONS,

3750
02:05:27,814 --> 02:05:28,815
NATURALLY QUESTIONS ABOUT

3751
02:05:28,815 --> 02:05:31,418
PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY COME

3752
02:05:31,418 --> 02:05:33,620
UP, AS WELL AS THINGS LIKE

3753
02:05:33,620 --> 02:05:35,822
JUSTICE AND TRANSPARENCY.

3754
02:05:35,822 --> 02:05:38,958
SO AS WE ADVANCE IN OUR

3755
02:05:38,958 --> 02:05:39,959
DISCUSSIONS, MY OVERALL GOALS

3756
02:05:39,959 --> 02:05:42,295
FOR TODAY REALLY ARE TO HELP YOU

3757
02:05:42,295 --> 02:05:45,231
GAIN PERHAPS A BETTER CONCEPTUAL

3758
02:05:45,231 --> 02:05:47,400
UNDERSTANDING OF THE TECHNICAL

3759
02:05:47,400 --> 02:05:49,069
CAPABILITIES AS WELL AS

3760
02:05:49,069 --> 02:05:50,804
LIMITATIONS OF LARGE LANGUAGE

3761
02:05:50,804 --> 02:05:52,472
MODELS AND HOW THEY'RE

3762
02:05:52,472 --> 02:05:54,240
DISTINGUISHED FROM OTHER

3763
02:05:54,240 --> 02:05:55,642
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE

3764
02:05:55,642 --> 02:05:57,510
TECHNOLOGIES, AND SECOND TO

3765
02:05:57,510 --> 02:05:58,812
REALLY CONSIDER AND WORK THROUGH

3766
02:05:58,812 --> 02:06:00,780
SOME OF THOSE ETHICAL, LEGAL AND

3767
02:06:00,780 --> 02:06:02,716
SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF LLM'S AT

3768
02:06:02,716 --> 02:06:06,786
EACH THOSE PHASES IN THE

3769
02:06:06,786 --> 02:06:08,388
RESEARCH PROCESS.

3770
02:06:08,388 --> 02:06:09,956
SO FOR SOME OF YOU THIS MAY BE

3771
02:06:09,956 --> 02:06:12,125
THE FIRST EXPOSURE TO THE

3772
02:06:12,125 --> 02:06:13,993
TECHNICAL SIDE OF AI, SO THE

3773
02:06:13,993 --> 02:06:15,995
NEXT FEW SLIDES ARE REALLY MEANT

3774
02:06:15,995 --> 02:06:17,397
TO COMPLEMENT SOME OF THE

3775
02:06:17,397 --> 02:06:18,732
SUGGESTED READINGS I HAD FOR

3776
02:06:18,732 --> 02:06:22,469
TODAY AND PROVIDE A BRIEF PRIMER

3777
02:06:22,469 --> 02:06:26,206
AND EXPAND YOUR AI VOCABULARY A

3778
02:06:26,206 --> 02:06:26,406
BIT.

3779
02:06:26,406 --> 02:06:30,310
SO AI DESCRIBES A TECHNIQUE

3780
02:06:30,310 --> 02:06:32,078
WHERE COMPUTERS ARE QUITE SIMPLY

3781
02:06:32,078 --> 02:06:34,614
PROGRAMMED TO MIMIC HUMAN

3782
02:06:34,614 --> 02:06:36,316
INTELLIGENCE AND ANALYTIC

3783
02:06:36,316 --> 02:06:36,583
BEHAVIORS.

3784
02:06:36,583 --> 02:06:38,218
AND ONE METHOD BY WHICH

3785
02:06:38,218 --> 02:06:40,920
COMPUTERS ARE ABLE TO ENABLE AI

3786
02:06:40,920 --> 02:06:42,689
IS THROUGH MACHINE LEARNING.

3787
02:06:42,689 --> 02:06:44,524
SO MACHINE LEARNING USES THESE

3788
02:06:44,524 --> 02:06:46,960
LARGE DATASETS THAT HUMANS

3789
02:06:46,960 --> 02:06:49,896
ESSENTIAL GIVE IT TO IDENTIFY

3790
02:06:49,896 --> 02:06:51,331
PATTERNS IN DATA THAT CAN BE

3791
02:06:51,331 --> 02:06:53,633
USEFUL FOR THINGS LIKE

3792
02:06:53,633 --> 02:06:55,602
PREDICTION, CALCULATING RELATIVE

3793
02:06:55,602 --> 02:06:58,204
RISK AND ISOLATING CAUSAL

3794
02:06:58,204 --> 02:06:58,538
INFERENCE.

3795
02:06:58,538 --> 02:07:01,074
AND THESE PATTERNS CAN BE USED

3796
02:07:01,074 --> 02:07:03,143
TO CREATE MODELS THAT THE

3797
02:07:03,143 --> 02:07:05,345
MACHINE EVOLVES OVER TIME IN

3798
02:07:05,345 --> 02:07:07,547
RESPONSE TO NEW DATA IT'S FED

3799
02:07:07,547 --> 02:07:09,749
AND NEW INPUTS THAT IT'S

3800
02:07:09,749 --> 02:07:10,083
PROVIDED.

3801
02:07:10,083 --> 02:07:12,051
AND THIS IS THE LEARNING PART OF

3802
02:07:12,051 --> 02:07:14,687
MACHINE LEARNING, WHICH CAN

3803
02:07:14,687 --> 02:07:17,957
OCCUR IN A SUPERVISED, THAT IS

3804
02:07:17,957 --> 02:07:20,260
WITH HUMAN INTERVENTION OR

3805
02:07:20,260 --> 02:07:23,530
WITHOUT IN AN UNSUPERVISED

3806
02:07:23,530 --> 02:07:23,763
FASHION.

3807
02:07:23,763 --> 02:07:26,399
SO UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF MACHINE

3808
02:07:26,399 --> 02:07:27,467
LEARNING ARE SYSTEMS CAPABLE OF

3809
02:07:27,467 --> 02:07:29,002
DIFFERENT TYPES OF ANALYTICS.

3810
02:07:29,002 --> 02:07:31,638
SO THERE'S THIS SUBSET OF AI

3811
02:07:31,638 --> 02:07:33,506
CALLED DEEP LEARNING WHICH

3812
02:07:33,506 --> 02:07:34,808
TEACHES COMPUTERS TO PROCESS

3813
02:07:34,808 --> 02:07:37,444
DATA IN A WAY THAT IS ACTUALLY

3814
02:07:37,444 --> 02:07:39,179
INSPIRED BY WHAT WE KNOW OF THE

3815
02:07:39,179 --> 02:07:41,514
HUMAN BRAIN ITSELF.

3816
02:07:41,514 --> 02:07:43,149
SO IN THIS SPACE BETWEEN DEEP

3817
02:07:43,149 --> 02:07:46,019
LEARNING AND MACHINE LEARNING,

3818
02:07:46,019 --> 02:07:48,221
WE HAVE GENERATIVE AI.

3819
02:07:48,221 --> 02:07:51,024
HAD GENERATIVE AI IS THIS

3820
02:07:51,024 --> 02:07:53,092
SUBCLASS OF DEEP LEARNING MODELS

3821
02:07:53,092 --> 02:07:56,629
THAT TAKE SOME RAW DATA, SAY

3822
02:07:56,629 --> 02:07:59,132
IT'S ALL OF THE DATA FROM NIH

3823
02:07:59,132 --> 02:08:00,667
REPORTER OR EVERY ARTICLE

3824
02:08:00,667 --> 02:08:02,869
WRITTEN IN THE WASHINGTON POST

3825
02:08:02,869 --> 02:08:06,906
AND LEARNS TO PREDICT THE MOST

3826
02:08:06,906 --> 02:08:07,774
STATISTICALLY PROBABLE NEXT

3827
02:08:07,774 --> 02:08:10,210
STRING OF TEXT IN RESPONSE TO A

3828
02:08:10,210 --> 02:08:11,611
USER'S PROMPT.

3829
02:08:11,611 --> 02:08:15,114
AND IT CAN BE TEXT, IT CAN BE 3D

3830
02:08:15,114 --> 02:08:19,953
IMAGES, IT CAN BE OTHER CONTENT

3831
02:08:19,953 --> 02:08:21,588
THAT'S BASED ON THIS RAW DATA

3832
02:08:21,588 --> 02:08:23,690
THAT MODELS ARE TRAINED ON.

3833
02:08:23,690 --> 02:08:25,859
SO COMMON TYPES OF DATA INCLUDE

3834
02:08:25,859 --> 02:08:27,827
CODE, THEY CAN INCLUDE TEXT,

3835
02:08:27,827 --> 02:08:29,562
WHICH IS WHAT I THINK PEOPLE ARE

3836
02:08:29,562 --> 02:08:32,765
FAMILIAR WITH WITH CHATGPT,

3837
02:08:32,765 --> 02:08:39,138
EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES LIKE AM

3838
02:08:39,138 --> 02:08:40,773
DOLL-E RESPONDS IT TEXT

3839
02:08:40,773 --> 02:08:43,276
RESPONSES IT GENERATES IMAGES

3840
02:08:43,276 --> 02:08:44,711
THAT ARE ASSOCIATED OR ARE

3841
02:08:44,711 --> 02:08:46,713
PREDICTED TO BE SOASHED WITH

3842
02:08:46,713 --> 02:08:47,914
THOSE -- ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE

3843
02:08:47,914 --> 02:08:48,581
TEXT INPUTS.

3844
02:08:48,581 --> 02:08:51,518
SO IN ESSENCE, THE RESPONSE YOU

3845
02:08:51,518 --> 02:08:54,387
GET FROM AN LLM AND BY PROMPTING

3846
02:08:54,387 --> 02:08:55,889
GENERATIVE AI STOOLS A SUMMARY

3847
02:08:55,889 --> 02:08:58,625
OF ALL THAT DATA IT'S TRAINED

3848
02:08:58,625 --> 02:09:01,361
ON, AND IT'S BEEN SYNTHESIZED

3849
02:09:01,361 --> 02:09:03,563
AND CREATED BY THE TOOL.

3850
02:09:03,563 --> 02:09:05,832
SO THAT SUMMARY IS SIMILAR TO

3851
02:09:05,832 --> 02:09:07,901
BUT NOT ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL TO

3852
02:09:07,901 --> 02:09:10,003
THE RAW DATA THAT IT'S TRIEND,

3853
02:09:10,003 --> 02:09:11,304
AND THIS IS PROBABLY THE --

3854
02:09:11,304 --> 02:09:12,839
TRAINED ON, AND THIS IS PROBABLY

3855
02:09:12,839 --> 02:09:14,173
THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE OF

3856
02:09:14,173 --> 02:09:15,708
GENERATIVE AI BECAUSE IT DOES

3857
02:09:15,708 --> 02:09:17,343
RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LIMITS

3858
02:09:17,343 --> 02:09:18,545
OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY,

3859
02:09:18,545 --> 02:09:19,946
PLAGIARISM, WHICH ACTUALLY WE

3860
02:09:19,946 --> 02:09:22,615
SAW AS PART OF THE WORD CLOUD,

3861
02:09:22,615 --> 02:09:24,350
AND AGAIN THE NOVELTY OF

3862
02:09:24,350 --> 02:09:27,720
RESEARCH IDEAS.

3863
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:29,689
SO LLM'S ARE INTERNAL VERY GOOD

3864
02:09:29,689 --> 02:09:32,325
AT SUMMATION, VERY GOOD AT

3865
02:09:32,325 --> 02:09:34,193
CLASSIFICATION AND PREDICTION OF

3866
02:09:34,193 --> 02:09:36,696
VARIOUS TYPES OF INPUTS AND

3867
02:09:36,696 --> 02:09:38,031
RESEARCH CAN REALLY --

3868
02:09:38,031 --> 02:09:39,666
RESEARCHERS CAN REALLY LEVERAGE

3869
02:09:39,666 --> 02:09:42,168
THOSE STRENGTHS AND PUT THEM TO

3870
02:09:42,168 --> 02:09:43,636
EFFECTIVE USE IN THEIR RESEARCH.

3871
02:09:43,636 --> 02:09:45,838
SO LLM'S HAVE RISEN IN

3872
02:09:45,838 --> 02:09:47,040
POPULARITY LARGELY THANKS ON

3873
02:09:47,040 --> 02:09:51,411
OPEN AI'S CHATGPT BUT THE LLM

3874
02:09:51,411 --> 02:09:52,612
MARKET ITSELF IS ACTUALLY

3875
02:09:52,612 --> 02:09:55,682
SATURATED AND EXPANDING QUITE

3876
02:09:55,682 --> 02:09:55,915
RAPIDLY.

3877
02:09:55,915 --> 02:09:59,986
SO WE ALSO HAVELY POM2, THIS IS

3878
02:09:59,986 --> 02:10:03,056
GOOLGS COMPETITIVE LLM TO

3879
02:10:03,056 --> 02:10:05,992
CHATGPT, NOT TO BE OUTDONE BY

3880
02:10:05,992 --> 02:10:07,660
CLOD HE A NEW PRODUCT RELEASED

3881
02:10:07,660 --> 02:10:11,664
BY A COMPANY CALLED ANTHROPIC.

3882
02:10:11,664 --> 02:10:13,299
I SHARE THESE JUST TO GIVE A

3883
02:10:13,299 --> 02:10:15,068
SENSE OF HOW MANY DIFFERENT

3884
02:10:15,068 --> 02:10:17,103
PRODUCTS ARE BEING RELEASED ON

3885
02:10:17,103 --> 02:10:19,639
THE MARKET BECAUSE THERE'S AN

3886
02:10:19,639 --> 02:10:21,708
EVOLVING DEMAND FOR THEM ACROSS

3887
02:10:21,708 --> 02:10:23,943
VARIOUS SECTORS.

3888
02:10:23,943 --> 02:10:27,246
SO GIVEN ITS UNIQUE STRENGTH AND

3889
02:10:27,246 --> 02:10:28,514
IS CAPABILITIES IT'S IMPORTANT

3890
02:10:28,514 --> 02:10:31,117
TO DISTINGUISH WHAT AN LLM IS

3891
02:10:31,117 --> 02:10:31,351
NOT.

3892
02:10:31,351 --> 02:10:33,086
GENERATIVE AI CAN COMMONLY BE

3893
02:10:33,086 --> 02:10:35,488
MISTAKEN AS AN INFORMATION

3894
02:10:35,488 --> 02:10:37,590
REPORTING TOOL OR A SEARCH

3895
02:10:37,590 --> 02:10:39,325
ENGINE, WHEN IN FACT IT'S

3896
02:10:39,325 --> 02:10:41,294
NOTHING MORE THAN AN INFORMATION

3897
02:10:41,294 --> 02:10:43,596
PARROT OR A SYNTHESIZING TOOL.

3898
02:10:43,596 --> 02:10:46,232
SO AS IN THE CASE OF CHATGPT,

3899
02:10:46,232 --> 02:10:48,167
IT'S ALSO PERPETUALLY STUCK IN

3900
02:10:48,167 --> 02:10:52,238
THE YEAR 2021, SO IT WOULDN'T BE

3901
02:10:52,238 --> 02:10:54,307
ABLE TO PROVIDE ANY TIMELY

3902
02:10:54,307 --> 02:10:55,942
UPDATES ON, FOR EXAMPLE,

3903
02:10:55,942 --> 02:10:58,411
RECENTLY PASSED LAWS, ANY

3904
02:10:58,411 --> 02:11:00,380
CURRENT EVENTS OR SOCIAL CHANGES

3905
02:11:00,380 --> 02:11:03,983
THAT ARE HAPPENING IN REALTIME

3906
02:11:03,983 --> 02:11:06,052
BUT WOULD INEVITABLY AFFECT THE

3907
02:11:06,052 --> 02:11:10,790
RESPONSES YOU GET.

3908
02:11:10,790 --> 02:11:13,092
ANOTHER THING LLM'S ARE NOT ARE

3909
02:11:13,092 --> 02:11:14,727
STORAGE CENTERS OR REPOSITORIES,

3910
02:11:14,727 --> 02:11:16,029
SO DHOANLT STORE DATA IN THE

3911
02:11:16,029 --> 02:11:17,664
SAME WAY -- THEY DON'T STAR DATA

3912
02:11:17,664 --> 02:11:19,866
IN THE SAME WAY THAT A DATABASE

3913
02:11:19,866 --> 02:11:23,936
OR A LITERATURE SEARCH ENGINE

3914
02:11:23,936 --> 02:11:27,440
MIGHT DO AND IMPORTANTLY THEY'RE

3915
02:11:27,440 --> 02:11:28,875
AT ANY TIME A VERIFIABLE SOURCE,

3916
02:11:28,875 --> 02:11:31,944
SO LLM'S CAN'T TESTIFY TO THE

3917
02:11:31,944 --> 02:11:33,246
TRUTHFULNESS OR INTEGRITY OR

3918
02:11:33,246 --> 02:11:35,181
VERACITY OF THE DATA THAT IT'S

3919
02:11:35,181 --> 02:11:36,082
GENERATING AND SPITTING BACK TO

3920
02:11:36,082 --> 02:11:37,617
YOU, AND THIS IS REALLY

3921
02:11:37,617 --> 02:11:39,152
CONSEQUENTIAL FOR RESEARCH RIGOR

3922
02:11:39,152 --> 02:11:45,391
AND DATA INTEGRITY.

3923
02:11:45,391 --> 02:11:47,560
SO DETION SPITE THE REALLY

3924
02:11:47,560 --> 02:11:48,494
EXPLOSIVE POPULARITY RECENTLY

3925
02:11:48,494 --> 02:11:50,630
AND PUBLIC INTEREST ACROSS MEDIA

3926
02:11:50,630 --> 02:11:52,198
COVERAGE IN THE LAST YEAR,

3927
02:11:52,198 --> 02:11:54,167
GENERATIVE AI ITSELF IS NOT ONLY

3928
02:11:54,167 --> 02:11:56,769
LIMITED TO LLM'S LIKE CHATGPT

3929
02:11:56,769 --> 02:11:58,504
BUT IT'S ALSO NOT NEW.

3930
02:11:58,504 --> 02:12:01,274
SO GENERATIVE AI HAS THIS REALLY

3931
02:12:01,274 --> 02:12:03,242
RICH THEORETICAL AND APPLIED

3932
02:12:03,242 --> 02:12:04,110
MATHEMATICAL HISTORY THAT DATES

3933
02:12:04,110 --> 02:12:07,346
BACK AT LEAST TO THE 1930S, AND

3934
02:12:07,346 --> 02:12:10,683
HAS BEEN HEAVILY INFLUENCED IN

3935
02:12:10,683 --> 02:12:17,256
THE EARLY YEARS BY WORK FROM

3936
02:12:17,256 --> 02:12:21,394
LINGUIST CHOMSKY AND FIRST CHAT

3937
02:12:21,394 --> 02:12:24,697
BOT CALLED WHY ELIZA IN THE LATE

3938
02:12:24,697 --> 02:12:25,798
19LY 0S.

3939
02:12:25,798 --> 02:12:27,667
IN DECADES THAT FOLLOWED WE SEE

3940
02:12:27,667 --> 02:12:30,036
REFINE REFINEMENT OF GENERATIVE

3941
02:12:30,036 --> 02:12:31,637
AI TECHNOLOGIES THAT CONVERGE

3942
02:12:31,637 --> 02:12:33,339
WITH THE BOOM OF COMPUTERRING

3943
02:12:33,339 --> 02:12:35,408
POWER AND BIG DATA ANALYTICS, IN

3944
02:12:35,408 --> 02:12:38,277
THE EARLY 2000S THE ERCHTS IS

3945
02:12:38,277 --> 02:12:39,579
INNOVATION FOR -- THE CENTERS

3946
02:12:39,579 --> 02:12:43,316
FOR INNOVATION FOR ARTIFICIAL

3947
02:12:43,316 --> 02:12:44,817
INTELLIGENCE SLOWLY MOVED OUT OF

3948
02:12:44,817 --> 02:12:46,252
ACADEMIA AND DEFENSE LABS TO

3949
02:12:46,252 --> 02:12:47,987
LARGE TECH COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE

3950
02:12:47,987 --> 02:12:49,522
AND MICROSOFT JUST REALLY

3951
02:12:49,522 --> 02:12:51,057
DOMINATE THAT INNOVATION SPACE

3952
02:12:51,057 --> 02:12:52,592
AT PRESENT.

3953
02:12:52,592 --> 02:12:54,560
SO, YOU KNOW, EQUIPPED WITH KIND

3954
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:56,529
OF THIS BASIC ALBEIT

3955
02:12:56,529 --> 02:12:57,230
FOUNDATIONAL UNDERSTANDING OF

3956
02:12:57,230 --> 02:13:00,733
WHAT LLM'S DO AND GENERATIVE AI

3957
02:13:00,733 --> 02:13:01,934
GENERALLY, WE'LL START TO EMBARK

3958
02:13:01,934 --> 02:13:04,570
ON THIS TOUR OF HOW LLM'S ARE

3959
02:13:04,570 --> 02:13:05,772
TRANSFORMING THE RESEARCH

3960
02:13:05,772 --> 02:13:08,608
ECOSYSTEM AND THE ETHICAL ISSUES

3961
02:13:08,608 --> 02:13:09,709
THAT REQUIRE CONSIDERATION ALONG

3962
02:13:09,709 --> 02:13:10,243
THE WAY.

3963
02:13:10,243 --> 02:13:12,979
AND WE'LL START WITH RESEARCH

3964
02:13:12,979 --> 02:13:15,515
DESIGN AND CONDUCT.

3965
02:13:15,515 --> 02:13:17,150
SO ONE OF THE MAIN MOTIVATIONS

3966
02:13:17,150 --> 02:13:19,752
FOR ADOPTING LLM'S IS THAT THEY

3967
02:13:19,752 --> 02:13:22,321
CAN HELP RESEARCHERS ACCELERATE

3968
02:13:22,321 --> 02:13:24,190
SPEED, EFFICIENCY OF DESIGNING

3969
02:13:24,190 --> 02:13:26,492
STUDIES, REALLY TRYING TO HELP

3970
02:13:26,492 --> 02:13:28,461
SPARK CREATIVE THINKING AND

3971
02:13:28,461 --> 02:13:31,631
IDEATION AND OVERCOME SOME

3972
02:13:31,631 --> 02:13:32,498
RATE-LIMITING STEPS IN THE

3973
02:13:32,498 --> 02:13:34,033
DESIGN PROCESS.

3974
02:13:34,033 --> 02:13:36,536
SO AT THE DESIGN STAGE, LLM'S

3975
02:13:36,536 --> 02:13:38,838
CAN REALLY CONFER SEVERAL

3976
02:13:38,838 --> 02:13:39,839
ADVANTAGES HAD.

3977
02:13:39,839 --> 02:13:41,808
BECAUSE THEY'RE TRAINED ON

3978
02:13:41,808 --> 02:13:44,110
ESSENTIALLY ALL THE INFORMATION

3979
02:13:44,110 --> 02:13:46,078
PUSHILY AVAILABLE ON THE

3980
02:13:46,078 --> 02:13:48,181
INTERNLTD, THEY CAN -- INTERNET

3981
02:13:48,181 --> 02:13:50,583
THEY CAN BE REALLY EFFECTIVE AT

3982
02:13:50,583 --> 02:13:51,651
ANALYZING KEY CONCEPTS AND

3983
02:13:51,651 --> 02:13:53,386
ENTIRE FIELDS OF LITERATURE,

3984
02:13:53,386 --> 02:13:55,288
HELPING RESEARCHERS ARRIVE AT

3985
02:13:55,288 --> 02:13:55,955
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS SOONER OR

3986
02:13:55,955 --> 02:13:58,457
HELPING TO EXPOSE KNOWLEDGE GAPS

3987
02:13:58,457 --> 02:14:01,594
THAT MIGHT REQUIRE YEARS --

3988
02:14:01,594 --> 02:14:04,730
MONTHS IF NOT YEARS TO DO

3989
02:14:04,730 --> 02:14:05,932
COMPREHENSIVE LITERATURE

3990
02:14:05,932 --> 02:14:07,366
SEARCHES, AS MANY OF YOU MIGHT

3991
02:14:07,366 --> 02:14:10,336
BE FAMILIAR WITH DOING.

3992
02:14:10,336 --> 02:14:12,638
LLM'S CAN ALSO BE HELPFUL IN HIM

3993
02:14:12,638 --> 02:14:14,373
INNING REAL PATTERNS IN HUMAN

3994
02:14:14,373 --> 02:14:15,675
LANGUAGE, SO CREATING

3995
02:14:15,675 --> 02:14:17,777
OPPORTUNITIES TO STUDY HUMAN

3996
02:14:17,777 --> 02:14:19,879
BEHAVIORS AND INTERACTIONS THAT

3997
02:14:19,879 --> 02:14:22,849
ARE EITHER INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT

3998
02:14:22,849 --> 02:14:24,150
OR PERHAPS DANGEROUS TO CAPTURE

3999
02:14:24,150 --> 02:14:26,886
IN THE NATURAL WORLD, SO IT

4000
02:14:26,886 --> 02:14:28,621
REALLY SUPPORTS DATA COLLECTION

4001
02:14:28,621 --> 02:14:31,490
AND ANALYSIS, AND IN THIS WAY,

4002
02:14:31,490 --> 02:14:33,593
LLM'S CAN ACTUALLY HELP CORRECT

4003
02:14:33,593 --> 02:14:35,561
PERHAPS ISSUES OF

4004
02:14:35,561 --> 02:14:36,963
UNDERREPRESENTATION AMONG

4005
02:14:36,963 --> 02:14:38,197
PARTICIPANT GROUPS AND ENABLE

4006
02:14:38,197 --> 02:14:41,567
STUDIES THAT MIGHT OTHERWISE BE

4007
02:14:41,567 --> 02:14:43,536
INFEASIBLE OR IMPRACTICABLE TO

4008
02:14:43,536 --> 02:14:45,304
CARRY OUT, AND WE'LL TALK A

4009
02:14:45,304 --> 02:14:46,172
LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW THEY

4010
02:14:46,172 --> 02:14:47,907
DO THIS LATER ON.

4011
02:14:47,907 --> 02:14:50,243
LLM'S CAN ALSO SUPPORT MAKING

4012
02:14:50,243 --> 02:14:53,412
KEY DECISIONS ABOUT DESIGN BY

4013
02:14:53,412 --> 02:14:56,549
PROPOSING VARIABLES TO STUDY, TO

4014
02:14:56,549 --> 02:14:58,117
HELP DEVISE CONTROL GROUPS FOR

4015
02:14:58,117 --> 02:15:01,954
TRIALS OR TO ASSIST IN

4016
02:15:01,954 --> 02:15:02,922
RANDOMIZING CONTROL GROUPS

4017
02:15:02,922 --> 02:15:04,657
WITHIN STUDIES.

4018
02:15:04,657 --> 02:15:06,092
AND THERE'S BEEN CONSIDERABLE

4019
02:15:06,092 --> 02:15:07,393
DEBATES OF LATE REGARDING THE

4020
02:15:07,393 --> 02:15:11,564
USE OF LLM'S TO SUPPORT GRANT

4021
02:15:11,564 --> 02:15:13,733
WRITING AND AS IT WAS I THINK

4022
02:15:13,733 --> 02:15:15,368
DEMONSTRATED IN THE SURVEY THAT

4023
02:15:15,368 --> 02:15:17,803
WE TOOK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LOTS

4024
02:15:17,803 --> 02:15:20,306
TO TALK ABOUT, WHETHER CHATGPT

4025
02:15:20,306 --> 02:15:23,142
CAN ACTUALLY HELP IMPROVE GRANT

4026
02:15:23,142 --> 02:15:25,444
OUTCOMES BY MODELING SUCCESSFUL

4027
02:15:25,444 --> 02:15:27,880
GRANTEE WRITING STYLES AND

4028
02:15:27,880 --> 02:15:28,180
STRUCTURES.

4029
02:15:28,180 --> 02:15:29,849
SO ANYONE WHO HAS TAKEN, YOU

4030
02:15:29,849 --> 02:15:33,219
KNOW, AN NIH WRITING CLASS KNOWS

4031
02:15:33,219 --> 02:15:37,790
THAT NIH REALLY LIKES TO, YOU

4032
02:15:37,790 --> 02:15:39,825
KNOW, STANDARDIZE THE WAY THAT

4033
02:15:39,825 --> 02:15:42,128
GRANT APPLICATIONS ARE

4034
02:15:42,128 --> 02:15:43,462
FORMATTED, AND THIS KIND OF

4035
02:15:43,462 --> 02:15:45,097
TRANSLATES TO SPECIFIC TYPES OF

4036
02:15:45,097 --> 02:15:47,266
LANGUAGE.  SO CHATGPT YOU CAN

4037
02:15:47,266 --> 02:15:49,902
ENVISION CAN HELP PAVE THE WAY

4038
02:15:49,902 --> 02:15:52,204
FOR MAYBE IMPROVED EQUITY GAINS

4039
02:15:52,204 --> 02:15:53,506
IN THE GRANT SUBMISSION PROCESS

4040
02:15:53,506 --> 02:15:55,374
FOR PEOPLE LIKE FIRST-TIME

4041
02:15:55,374 --> 02:15:56,709
APPLICANTS WHO HAVE NEVER

4042
02:15:56,709 --> 02:15:59,412
SUBMITTED A GRANT BEFORE, OR

4043
02:15:59,412 --> 02:16:01,614
PRIMARILY FOR PEOPLE FOR WHOM

4044
02:16:01,614 --> 02:16:05,117
ENGLISH MAY NOT BE THEIR FIRST

4045
02:16:05,117 --> 02:16:05,451
LANGUAGE.

4046
02:16:05,451 --> 02:16:08,054
SO THESE BENEFITS SHOULD NOT

4047
02:16:08,054 --> 02:16:09,922
THEMSELVES DRIVE LLM USE.

4048
02:16:09,922 --> 02:16:11,357
RATHER, YOU KNOW, REFLECTIONS

4049
02:16:11,357 --> 02:16:13,626
ABOUT WHETHER LLM'S ARE INDEED

4050
02:16:13,626 --> 02:16:15,094
CONDUCIVE TO THE SPECIFIC

4051
02:16:15,094 --> 02:16:17,530
RESEARCH TASK OR QUESTION OF

4052
02:16:17,530 --> 02:16:19,799
INTEREST SHOULD REALLY DRIVE

4053
02:16:19,799 --> 02:16:20,166
THOSE DECISIONS.

4054
02:16:20,166 --> 02:16:22,335
SO NOT ALL RESEARCH TASKS ARE

4055
02:16:22,335 --> 02:16:25,171
DESIGNED ALIKE, SO THERE SHOULD

4056
02:16:25,171 --> 02:16:27,039
BE THIS CONSIDERATION ABOUT

4057
02:16:27,039 --> 02:16:29,642
WHETHER LLM'S ARE APPROPRIATE TO

4058
02:16:29,642 --> 02:16:33,612
THE RESEARCH TASK OR QUESTION OF

4059
02:16:33,612 --> 02:16:33,980
INTEREST.

4060
02:16:33,980 --> 02:16:35,047
THERE'S ALSO A QUESTION ABOUT

4061
02:16:35,047 --> 02:16:36,682
WHETHER IT'S THE MOST RIGOROUS

4062
02:16:36,682 --> 02:16:40,152
WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT TASK, AND

4063
02:16:40,152 --> 02:16:41,587
RELATELY WHETHER IT'S THE MOST

4064
02:16:41,587 --> 02:16:45,091
FEASIBLE WAY TO DO THAT AS WELL.

4065
02:16:45,091 --> 02:16:49,895
AND I REALLY APPRECIATE HOW ALEX

4066
02:16:49,895 --> 02:16:51,530
LONDON ACTUALLY HELPS US THINK

4067
02:16:51,530 --> 02:16:55,134
THROUGH THE STRUCTURAL TYPES OF

4068
02:16:55,134 --> 02:16:57,436
PROBLEMS THAT AI HELPS US

4069
02:16:57,436 --> 02:16:58,337
OVERCOME IN THE RESEARCH

4070
02:16:58,337 --> 02:17:00,606
PROCESS, SO HE HAS THIS REALLY

4071
02:17:00,606 --> 02:17:04,243
HELPFUL DIAGRAM ABOUT, YOU KNOW,

4072
02:17:04,243 --> 02:17:10,916
HOW AI IN GENERAL IS, CAN BE

4073
02:17:10,916 --> 02:17:11,650
INTEGRATED WITHIN HEALTHCARE

4074
02:17:11,650 --> 02:17:13,419
SYSTEMS AND TO SUPPORT PATIENT

4075
02:17:13,419 --> 02:17:15,921
CARE, BUT I THINK MANY OF HIS

4076
02:17:15,921 --> 02:17:17,790
OBSERVATIONS LIKEWISE ARE REALLY

4077
02:17:17,790 --> 02:17:19,091
APPLICABLE TO RESEARCH, HE IS

4078
02:17:19,091 --> 02:17:21,961
SPESHLY REGARDING THE IMPACTS

4079
02:17:21,961 --> 02:17:24,363
THAT DATA FROM WHICH AI MODELS

4080
02:17:24,363 --> 02:17:27,833
ARE BUILT WILL HAVE ON THE

4081
02:17:27,833 --> 02:17:29,268
RESEARCH ENVIRONMENTS THAT AI

4082
02:17:29,268 --> 02:17:30,903
SYSTEMS ARE EVENTUALLY

4083
02:17:30,903 --> 02:17:31,370
IMPLEMENTED IN.

4084
02:17:31,370 --> 02:17:32,772
SO I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS PAPER

4085
02:17:32,772 --> 02:17:36,809
THAT CAME OUT IN CELL REPORTS, I

4086
02:17:36,809 --> 02:17:39,578
BELIEVE, IN 2022-H AND I THINK

4087
02:17:39,578 --> 02:17:41,547
WITH SO MUCH TALK OF MEDICAL AI,

4088
02:17:41,547 --> 02:17:42,848
THERE'S ALSO THIS TENDENCY TO

4089
02:17:42,848 --> 02:17:45,151
THINK LLM'S MAY JUST BE RELEVANT

4090
02:17:45,151 --> 02:17:46,685
FOR CLINICAL OR BIOMEDICAL

4091
02:17:46,685 --> 02:17:48,320
RESEARCH, BUT THERE'S THIS

4092
02:17:48,320 --> 02:17:49,622
GROWING ENTHUSIASM FOR

4093
02:17:49,622 --> 02:17:51,824
APPLICATIONS OF LLM'S TO SOCIAL

4094
02:17:51,824 --> 02:17:54,326
SCIENCE RESEARCH AS WELL.

4095
02:17:54,326 --> 02:17:56,662
SO HERE I'M EXCERPTING A PAPER

4096
02:17:56,662 --> 02:17:58,164
FROM GROSSMAN AND COLLEAGUES

4097
02:17:58,164 --> 02:18:00,366
THAT WROTE IN A RECENT PIECE,

4098
02:18:00,366 --> 02:18:02,001
EXCELLENT PIECE IN SCIENCE THAT

4099
02:18:02,001 --> 02:18:04,637
REALLY THESE ADVANCES IN LLM'S

4100
02:18:04,637 --> 02:18:05,738
ARE OFFERING OPPORTUNITIES TO

4101
02:18:05,738 --> 02:18:07,807
TEST THEORIES AND HYPOTHESES

4102
02:18:07,807 --> 02:18:10,543
ABOUT HUMAN BEHAVIOR AT GREAT

4103
02:18:10,543 --> 02:18:13,179
SCALE AND SPEED, THEY WRITE,

4104
02:18:13,179 --> 02:18:14,380
BECAUSE, QUOTE, THEY CAN

4105
02:18:14,380 --> 02:18:15,915
REPRESENT MYRIAD HUMAN

4106
02:18:15,915 --> 02:18:17,917
EXPERIENCES AND PERSPECTIVES,

4107
02:18:17,917 --> 02:18:19,685
POSSIBLY GIVING THEM A HIGHER

4108
02:18:19,685 --> 02:18:21,620
DEGREE OF FREEDOM TO GENERATE

4109
02:18:21,620 --> 02:18:23,956
DIVERSE RESPONSES AND WITH

4110
02:18:23,956 --> 02:18:25,524
HIGHER FIDELITY THAN HAS BEEN

4111
02:18:25,524 --> 02:18:26,692
PREVIOUSLY POSSIBLE WITH

4112
02:18:26,692 --> 02:18:28,527
CONVENTIONAL HUMAN PARTICIPANT

4113
02:18:28,527 --> 02:18:32,698
MODELS.

4114
02:18:32,698 --> 02:18:35,000
SO WITH THAT WE'VE COME TO OUR

4115
02:18:35,000 --> 02:18:36,202
FIRST EMERGENT APPLICATION AND

4116
02:18:36,202 --> 02:18:38,037
YOU'LL KNOW IT'S AN EMERGENT

4117
02:18:38,037 --> 02:18:39,805
APPLICATION WITH THAT LITTLE

4118
02:18:39,805 --> 02:18:41,307
SUNRISE ICON IN THE UPPER

4119
02:18:41,307 --> 02:18:42,875
LEFT-HAND CORNER AND THIS IS

4120
02:18:42,875 --> 02:18:45,077
LLM'S GENERATION OF SYNTHETIC

4121
02:18:45,077 --> 02:18:45,511
DATA.

4122
02:18:45,511 --> 02:18:47,480
SYNTHETIC DATA ARE ARTIFICIAL

4123
02:18:47,480 --> 02:18:49,348
DATA THAT'S CREATED BY

4124
02:18:49,348 --> 02:18:50,449
ALGORITHMS BUT CAN BE USED TO

4125
02:18:50,449 --> 02:18:53,619
TRAIN LLM'S, AND THEY CAN BE

4126
02:18:53,619 --> 02:18:55,488
USED, SYNTHETIC DATA CAN BE USED

4127
02:18:55,488 --> 02:18:56,822
TO SUPPLEMENT REAL WORLD DATA,

4128
02:18:56,822 --> 02:18:58,124
CAN BE INSPIRED BY REAL WORLD

4129
02:18:58,124 --> 02:19:00,759
DATA OR TO CREATE NEW DATA SETS

4130
02:19:00,759 --> 02:19:02,728
ALTOGETHER USING REAL WORLD DATA

4131
02:19:02,728 --> 02:19:05,264
AS A BASIS.

4132
02:19:05,264 --> 02:19:06,665
BUT SYNTHETIC DATA IS

4133
02:19:06,665 --> 02:19:08,100
ADVANTAGEOUS BECAUSE THEY ARE

4134
02:19:08,100 --> 02:19:10,302
GENERALLY NOT PERSONALLY

4135
02:19:10,302 --> 02:19:10,636
IDENTIFIABLE.

4136
02:19:10,636 --> 02:19:12,571
SO STUDIES WHICH USE OR

4137
02:19:12,571 --> 02:19:14,340
GENERATE, YOU KNOW, SYNTHETIC

4138
02:19:14,340 --> 02:19:16,108
DATA ARE THEREFORE NOT

4139
02:19:16,108 --> 02:19:17,209
CONSIDERED HUMAN SUBJECTS

4140
02:19:17,209 --> 02:19:18,844
RESEARCH AND WOULD LIKELY NOT

4141
02:19:18,844 --> 02:19:21,814
FALL UNDER THE AMBIT OF THE

4142
02:19:21,814 --> 02:19:24,416
COMMON RULE OR UNDER IRB REVIEW.

4143
02:19:24,416 --> 02:19:26,218
SO THE ADVANTAGE OF USING

4144
02:19:26,218 --> 02:19:28,387
SYNTHETIC DATASETS FOR RESEARCH

4145
02:19:28,387 --> 02:19:31,056
MIGHT THEREFORE BE TWOFOLD.

4146
02:19:31,056 --> 02:19:33,092
THEY COULD BETTER PROTECT

4147
02:19:33,092 --> 02:19:34,293
PARTICIPANT PRIVACY BECAUSE THEY

4148
02:19:34,293 --> 02:19:38,330
DON'T CONTAIN THIS PERSONALLY

4149
02:19:38,330 --> 02:19:39,098
IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION, AND

4150
02:19:39,098 --> 02:19:41,167
THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN

4151
02:19:41,167 --> 02:19:41,867
DEIDENTIFIED INFORMATION WHICH,

4152
02:19:41,867 --> 02:19:44,136
YOU KNOW, CAME FROM SOMETHING

4153
02:19:44,136 --> 02:19:44,770
THAT'S PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE

4154
02:19:44,770 --> 02:19:47,640
AND THEN HAD SEVERAL IDENTIFIERS

4155
02:19:47,640 --> 02:19:49,842
REMOVED IN ORDER TO MAKE IT

4156
02:19:49,842 --> 02:19:50,409
DEIDENTIFIED.

4157
02:19:50,409 --> 02:19:53,245
SO SYNTHETIC DATA AT THE GIT-GO

4158
02:19:53,245 --> 02:19:55,114
DOESN'T CONTAIN ANY OF THOSE

4159
02:19:55,114 --> 02:19:56,849
IDENTIFIERS NOR HAD IT REMOVED

4160
02:19:56,849 --> 02:19:58,484
AT ANY POINT.

4161
02:19:58,484 --> 02:20:01,053
AND IT CAN BE USED, IT CAN BE

4162
02:20:01,053 --> 02:20:04,657
CREATED TO CONTROL FOR BIASES AS

4163
02:20:04,657 --> 02:20:05,090
WELL.

4164
02:20:05,090 --> 02:20:07,159
SO SYNTHETIC DATA CAN HELP

4165
02:20:07,159 --> 02:20:08,827
RESEARCHERS FILL IN GAPS WHERE

4166
02:20:08,827 --> 02:20:10,930
MAYBE THERE'S MISSING DATA, AND

4167
02:20:10,930 --> 02:20:13,666
THIS MISSING DATA LIMITS

4168
02:20:13,666 --> 02:20:14,867
POTENTIALLY THE INTERNAL OR

4169
02:20:14,867 --> 02:20:16,936
EXTERNAL VALIDITY OF FINDINGS,

4170
02:20:16,936 --> 02:20:19,038
AND IN THE PROCESS OF THAT

4171
02:20:19,038 --> 02:20:20,873
REALLY REDUCE THE RESOURCES

4172
02:20:20,873 --> 02:20:22,508
NEEDED TO COLLECT ADDITIONAL

4173
02:20:22,508 --> 02:20:25,244
DATA TO TRAIN THEIR ALGORITHMS.

4174
02:20:25,244 --> 02:20:27,313
AND THERE'S THIS REALLY

4175
02:20:27,313 --> 02:20:29,848
EXCELLENT REPORT FROM THE ROYAL

4176
02:20:29,848 --> 02:20:32,818
SOCIETY ON KIND OF THE WHO,

4177
02:20:32,818 --> 02:20:34,553
WHAT, WHEN, WHERE AND WHY OF

4178
02:20:34,553 --> 02:20:37,189
SYNTHETIC DATA ASK AND SOME NEW

4179
02:20:37,189 --> 02:20:38,958
SCHOLARSHIP COMING OUT ABOUT HOW

4180
02:20:38,958 --> 02:20:40,159
WE SHOULD TREAT SYNTHETIC DATA

4181
02:20:40,159 --> 02:20:43,762
IN COMPARISON TO DEIDENTIFIED OR

4182
02:20:43,762 --> 02:20:46,065
PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION.

4183
02:20:46,065 --> 02:20:48,801
SO ALL THESE BENEFITS ARE

4184
02:20:48,801 --> 02:20:50,536
POSSIBLE IF WE ASSUME SOME

4185
02:20:50,536 --> 02:20:52,071
PRETTY FOUNDATIONAL REALITIES

4186
02:20:52,071 --> 02:20:54,673
ABOUT THE ACTUAL DATA UPON WHICH

4187
02:20:54,673 --> 02:20:56,308
LLM'S ARE TRAINED ON, THAT CAN

4188
02:20:56,308 --> 02:21:01,380
BE SYNTHETIC OR REAL WORLD DATA,

4189
02:21:01,380 --> 02:21:02,815
AND I REALLY THINK ABOUT THEM IN

4190
02:21:02,815 --> 02:21:05,117
TERMS OF THREE PRIMARY SOURCES

4191
02:21:05,117 --> 02:21:06,752
OF BIAS OF THAT DATA.

4192
02:21:06,752 --> 02:21:09,054
SO THEY REALLY STEM FROM THE

4193
02:21:09,054 --> 02:21:10,889
QUALITY AND REPRESENTATIVENESS

4194
02:21:10,889 --> 02:21:16,395
OF THE TRAINING DATA AND THEY

4195
02:21:16,395 --> 02:21:18,664
ALSO CAN EMBED IN THE METHODS

4196
02:21:18,664 --> 02:21:19,765
AND CHOICES AROUND VALIDATION

4197
02:21:19,765 --> 02:21:23,168
AND FINALLY IN REAL WORLD

4198
02:21:23,168 --> 02:21:23,535
IMPLEMENTATION.

4199
02:21:23,535 --> 02:21:26,105
SO I THINK IT COMES AS NO

4200
02:21:26,105 --> 02:21:27,873
SURPRISE THAT, YOU KNOW,

4201
02:21:27,873 --> 02:21:29,074
LEARNERS IN THE ROOM THAT IF

4202
02:21:29,074 --> 02:21:33,012
DATA IS UNREMITTIVE --

4203
02:21:33,012 --> 02:21:33,879
UNREPRESENTATIVE OR QUALITY OF A

4204
02:21:33,879 --> 02:21:36,115
PHENOMENON OF INTEREST, MAYBE

4205
02:21:36,115 --> 02:21:37,316
THE MODEL WILL NOT LEARN THE

4206
02:21:37,316 --> 02:21:38,884
RELEVANT INFORMATION AS

4207
02:21:38,884 --> 02:21:40,519
EFFECTIVELY, AND AS A RESULT,

4208
02:21:40,519 --> 02:21:42,054
THIS HAS MAJOR SIGNIFICANCE ON

4209
02:21:42,054 --> 02:21:44,456
AN AI MODEL'S PERFORMANCE, IT'S

4210
02:21:44,456 --> 02:21:47,393
LIKELY TO SUFFER WITHOUT

4211
02:21:47,393 --> 02:21:50,262
APPROPRIATE REPRESENTATION FROM

4212
02:21:50,262 --> 02:21:51,697
POPULATIONS OF INTEREST, LEADING

4213
02:21:51,697 --> 02:21:53,198
TO THINGS LIKE INACCURATE

4214
02:21:53,198 --> 02:21:55,100
PREDICTIONS OR IN THE CASE OF

4215
02:21:55,100 --> 02:21:57,803
HEALTH RESEARCH, PERHAPS REDUCED

4216
02:21:57,803 --> 02:22:00,105
DIAGNOSTIC YIELD OR CAPABILITY.

4217
02:22:00,105 --> 02:22:03,842
WE REALLY WORRY ABOUT THINGS

4218
02:22:03,842 --> 02:22:07,112
LIKE GENERALIZEABILITY, SO IF WE

4219
02:22:07,112 --> 02:22:09,281
DON'T PUT IN QUALITY DATA, WE

4220
02:22:09,281 --> 02:22:12,017
WON'T BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY

4221
02:22:12,017 --> 02:22:13,786
GENERALIZE THOSE PATTERNS AND

4222
02:22:13,786 --> 02:22:16,088
FINDINGS ACROSS BROADER

4223
02:22:16,088 --> 02:22:16,622
PARTICIPANT POPULATIONS.

4224
02:22:16,622 --> 02:22:19,692
AND THAT MAY GUIDE SCIENTIFIC --

4225
02:22:19,692 --> 02:22:22,094
MAY MISGUIDE SCIENTIFIC

4226
02:22:22,094 --> 02:22:25,030
PRIORITIES AND ULTIMATELY LEAD

4227
02:22:25,030 --> 02:22:27,333
TO ASYMMETRICAL BENEFIT SHARING

4228
02:22:27,333 --> 02:22:29,601
AND BURDEN AND DISCRIMINATION,

4229
02:22:29,601 --> 02:22:32,371
AS AGAIN WE SAW IN THE WORD

4230
02:22:32,371 --> 02:22:32,738
CLOUD.

4231
02:22:32,738 --> 02:22:35,674
SO THE KEY TAKE AWAYS IS THAT

4232
02:22:35,674 --> 02:22:37,643
LLM'S, ESPECIALLY COMMERCIAL

4233
02:22:37,643 --> 02:22:41,280
LLM'S, ARE NOT REALLY DESIGNED

4234
02:22:41,280 --> 02:22:43,482
WITH RESEARCH OR CLINICAL DATA

4235
02:22:43,482 --> 02:22:45,751
PRIVACY COMPLIANCE IN MIND.

4236
02:22:45,751 --> 02:22:48,287
SO INPUT DATA THAT'S NEEDED TO

4237
02:22:48,287 --> 02:22:50,689
TRAIN, OPERATE OR REFINE LLM'S

4238
02:22:50,689 --> 02:22:52,358
MAY NOT NECESSARILY REQUIRE

4239
02:22:52,358 --> 02:22:54,193
EXPLICIT CONSENT FROM

4240
02:22:54,193 --> 02:22:55,728
INDIVIDUALS OR COMMUNITIES ABOUT

4241
02:22:55,728 --> 02:22:58,030
WHOM THAT DATA RELATE,

4242
02:22:58,030 --> 02:23:00,232
ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF THINGS

4243
02:23:00,232 --> 02:23:02,201
LIKE SYNTHETIC DATA, AND STUDIES

4244
02:23:02,201 --> 02:23:04,603
THAT USE LLM'S TRAINED ON

4245
02:23:04,603 --> 02:23:05,904
SYNTHETIC DATASETS ARE REALLY

4246
02:23:05,904 --> 02:23:07,439
UNLIKELY TO EVER RECEIVE FORMAL

4247
02:23:07,439 --> 02:23:09,041
ETHICS REVIEW OR APPROVAL, SO

4248
02:23:09,041 --> 02:23:10,709
WE'RE ESSENTIALLY TAKING OUT,

4249
02:23:10,709 --> 02:23:13,812
YOU KNOW, A HUGE SECTION OF

4250
02:23:13,812 --> 02:23:15,981
RESEARCH THAT WOULD OTHERWISE

4251
02:23:15,981 --> 02:23:19,485
UNDERGO SOME SORT OF ETHICS

4252
02:23:19,485 --> 02:23:21,353
OVERSIGHT FROM THE PIPELINE.

4253
02:23:21,353 --> 02:23:23,856
SO THE ASSOCIATIONS BETWEEN DATA

4254
02:23:23,856 --> 02:23:28,227
INPUTS AND OUTPUTS MAKE

4255
02:23:28,227 --> 02:23:28,994
POTENTIALLY SENSITIVE HEALTH

4256
02:23:28,994 --> 02:23:31,964
DATA INVOLVING PARTICIPANTS

4257
02:23:31,964 --> 02:23:33,999
RATHER RISKY WHEN WE USE THEM IN

4258
02:23:33,999 --> 02:23:36,335
THE CONDUCT OF RESEARCH.

4259
02:23:36,335 --> 02:23:38,203
SO IN LIGHT OF THOSE RISKS, THIS

4260
02:23:38,203 --> 02:23:40,506
IS A PAPER BY WATKINS THAT

4261
02:23:40,506 --> 02:23:42,374
REALLY PROVIDES WHAT SYNC A

4262
02:23:42,374 --> 02:23:43,675
HELPFUL GUIDE FOR RESEARCHERS

4263
02:23:43,675 --> 02:23:46,111
AND POTENTIALLY ALSO IRBS, LIKE

4264
02:23:46,111 --> 02:23:48,747
ABOUT THE ETHICAL ISSUES TO

4265
02:23:48,747 --> 02:23:51,383
CONSIDER WHEN USING LLM'S INTO

4266
02:23:51,383 --> 02:23:54,686
ACTUAL RESEARCH WORKFLOWS.

4267
02:23:54,686 --> 02:23:57,222
SO THEY WRITE ABOUT OR PROPOSE

4268
02:23:57,222 --> 02:23:59,625
THAT RESEARCHERS SHOULD ASK

4269
02:23:59,625 --> 02:24:01,460
QUESTIONS LIKE HOW TRAINING DATA

4270
02:24:01,460 --> 02:24:03,662
ARE MADE MORE TRANSPARENT TO

4271
02:24:03,662 --> 02:24:05,764
DATA CONTRIBUTORS AND USERS F

4272
02:24:05,764 --> 02:24:09,368
HOW LLM OUTPUTS WILL ENABLE

4273
02:24:09,368 --> 02:24:11,670
REPRODUCIBILITY STUDIES, AND

4274
02:24:11,670 --> 02:24:14,840
ASKING WHETHER THOSE OUTPUTS ARE

4275
02:24:14,840 --> 02:24:18,043
BEING TREATED IN A

4276
02:24:18,043 --> 02:24:19,244
NONANTHROPOMORPHIC MANNER, SO WE

4277
02:24:19,244 --> 02:24:22,414
HAVE A TENDENCY TO ASCRIBE A

4278
02:24:22,414 --> 02:24:25,250
SENSE OF AUTHORITY AND

4279
02:24:25,250 --> 02:24:28,754
LEGITIMACY TO NUMBERS AND

4280
02:24:28,754 --> 02:24:30,956
MACHINE-GENERATED OUTPUTS THAT

4281
02:24:30,956 --> 02:24:33,992
WE DON'T ALWAYS CONSIDER WHEN

4282
02:24:33,992 --> 02:24:35,527
THOSE OUTPUTS ARE BEING

4283
02:24:35,527 --> 02:24:36,829
GENERATED BY A HUMAN.

4284
02:24:36,829 --> 02:24:39,698
SO THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY

4285
02:24:39,698 --> 02:24:43,202
INTERESTING STS RESEARCH, SOCIAL

4286
02:24:43,202 --> 02:24:44,203
STUDIES SCIENCE RESEARCH LOOKING

4287
02:24:44,203 --> 02:24:45,938
AT THE AUTHORITY THAT'S GIVEN TO

4288
02:24:45,938 --> 02:24:48,340
OUTPUTS OF ALGORITHMS IN

4289
02:24:48,340 --> 02:24:49,441
COMPARISON TO HUMANS, AND I

4290
02:24:49,441 --> 02:24:51,376
WOULD BE REALLY HAPPY TO --

4291
02:24:51,376 --> 02:24:53,278
THAT'S A WHOLE ANOTHER TOPIC OF

4292
02:24:53,278 --> 02:24:54,246
CONVERSATION AND LOTS OF

4293
02:24:54,246 --> 02:24:56,215
SCHOLARS TO LOOK AT WHO ARE

4294
02:24:56,215 --> 02:24:57,416
DOING REALLY INTERESTING WORK IN

4295
02:24:57,416 --> 02:24:59,184
THAT REALM.

4296
02:24:59,184 --> 02:25:03,121
SO IT'S WORTH NOTING IN THIS

4297
02:25:03,121 --> 02:25:05,324
NEXT PHASE OF THE RESEARCH

4298
02:25:05,324 --> 02:25:08,494
PROCESS IN RESEARCH PEER REVIEW

4299
02:25:08,494 --> 02:25:10,762
THAT THE NIH RECENTLY RELEASED

4300
02:25:10,762 --> 02:25:12,097
AN OFFICIAL POSITION ON THE USE

4301
02:25:12,097 --> 02:25:16,368
OF LLM'S AND CHATGPT I THINK

4302
02:25:16,368 --> 02:25:17,903
REALLY THEIR COMMENTARY IS

4303
02:25:17,903 --> 02:25:19,872
DIRECTED AT CHATGPT, BAN BEING

4304
02:25:19,872 --> 02:25:22,274
THE USE OF THEM SPECIFICALLY IN

4305
02:25:22,274 --> 02:25:25,110
NIH PEER REVIEW.

4306
02:25:25,110 --> 02:25:30,716
SO THIS I THINK WAS REALLY AN

4307
02:25:30,716 --> 02:25:33,352
IMPORTANT POSITION TAKEN BY A

4308
02:25:33,352 --> 02:25:35,521
FEDERAL GRANTING AGENCY BECAUSE

4309
02:25:35,521 --> 02:25:38,824
GRANT APPLICATIONS AND CONTRACT

4310
02:25:38,824 --> 02:25:39,925
PROPOSAL MATERIALS ARE REALLY

4311
02:25:39,925 --> 02:25:41,627
PRIVILEGED INFORMATION THAT NIH

4312
02:25:41,627 --> 02:25:43,395
PROHIBITS FROM BEING SHARED OR

4313
02:25:43,395 --> 02:25:45,464
DISSEMINATED IN ANY MEANS

4314
02:25:45,464 --> 02:25:45,797
WHATSOEVER.

4315
02:25:45,797 --> 02:25:52,704
SO THE USE OF CHATGPT, THEY PUT

4316
02:25:52,704 --> 02:25:54,673
OUT IN THIS RELEASE, REALLY

4317
02:25:54,673 --> 02:25:56,408
VIOLATES THIS SHARING

4318
02:25:56,408 --> 02:25:57,175
PROHIBITION THAT THEY HAVE

4319
02:25:57,175 --> 02:25:59,144
BECAUSE IT REQUIRES SUBSTANTIAL

4320
02:25:59,144 --> 02:26:02,080
AND DETAILED INFORMATIONAL

4321
02:26:02,080 --> 02:26:02,414
INPUT.

4322
02:26:02,414 --> 02:26:04,082
SO THERE'S NO GUARANTEE OF WHERE

4323
02:26:04,082 --> 02:26:08,754
DATA ARE BEING SENT, SAVED, USED

4324
02:26:08,754 --> 02:26:10,389
OR HOW THAT DATA MIGHT BE USED

4325
02:26:10,389 --> 02:26:12,491
IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE ONCE WE

4326
02:26:12,491 --> 02:26:16,228
PROMPT CHATGPT WITH MAYBE SOME

4327
02:26:16,228 --> 02:26:17,963
SUPPORT WITH HOW AN APPLICATION

4328
02:26:17,963 --> 02:26:21,133
SHOULD BE REVIEWED OR EVALUATED,

4329
02:26:21,133 --> 02:26:23,235
WE HAVE NO IDEA KIND OF WHERE

4330
02:26:23,235 --> 02:26:24,436
THAT DATA END UP.

4331
02:26:24,436 --> 02:26:26,438
SO I THINK THAT NIH WAS VERY

4332
02:26:26,438 --> 02:26:28,140
WELL PLACED TO MAKE KIND OF THIS

4333
02:26:28,140 --> 02:26:31,877
BLANK EPT PROHIBITION ON CHAT GP

4334
02:26:31,877 --> 02:26:33,845
CHATGPT AND LLM'S IN THE PEER

4335
02:26:33,845 --> 02:26:36,481
REVIEW PROCESS.

4336
02:26:36,481 --> 02:26:38,016
SO I THINK WE'LL TALK BRIEFLY

4337
02:26:38,016 --> 02:26:40,953
ABOUT THE LIMITS OF IRB REVIEW

4338
02:26:40,953 --> 02:26:42,287
IN OVERSIGHTS.

4339
02:26:42,287 --> 02:26:43,355
WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT

4340
02:26:43,355 --> 02:26:45,557
IN TERMS OF SYNTHETIC DATA, BUT

4341
02:26:45,557 --> 02:26:47,759
IT'S ALSO WORTH MENTIONING HOW

4342
02:26:47,759 --> 02:26:49,494
IRB'S ARE LIMITED IN THE SCOPE

4343
02:26:49,494 --> 02:26:52,030
OF THE REVIEWS FROM MANY

4344
02:26:52,030 --> 02:26:54,232
AI-BASED STUDIES, DUE IN PART TO

4345
02:26:54,232 --> 02:26:57,636
HOW ONE PART OF THE 4R5 CFR 46

4346
02:26:57,636 --> 02:26:59,771
IS INTERPRETED, REGARDING THE

4347
02:26:59,771 --> 02:27:02,374
LONG RANGE EFFECTS OF RESEARCH.

4348
02:27:02,374 --> 02:27:04,476
SO SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES

4349
02:27:04,476 --> 02:27:07,079
ALTHOUGH DAVID MAGNIS THE

4350
02:27:07,079 --> 02:27:08,046
ASTANFORD WRITE ABOUT THIS

4351
02:27:08,046 --> 02:27:09,615
SPECIFIC IRB LIMITATION IN THE

4352
02:27:09,615 --> 02:27:12,017
CON TESKS AI RESEARCH

4353
02:27:12,017 --> 02:27:13,652
GENERALLY -- CONTEXT OF AI

4354
02:27:13,652 --> 02:27:14,753
RESEARCH GENERALLY.

4355
02:27:14,753 --> 02:27:16,054
ONE INTERPRETATION IS QUESTIONS

4356
02:27:16,054 --> 02:27:17,689
WHETHER IRB'S CAN CONSIDER

4357
02:27:17,689 --> 02:27:20,759
THINGS LIKE GROUP HARMS OR LONG

4358
02:27:20,759 --> 02:27:22,894
RANGE EFFECTS OF AI RESEARCH AND

4359
02:27:22,894 --> 02:27:24,496
THE OUTPUTS THAT ARE GENERATED

4360
02:27:24,496 --> 02:27:27,566
BY AI RESEARCH UNDER THIS

4361
02:27:27,566 --> 02:27:30,035
PARTICULAR CLAWS.

4362
02:27:30,035 --> 02:27:33,639
SO I WOULD -- CLAWS, SO I WOULD

4363
02:27:33,639 --> 02:27:35,841
ALSO -- CLAUSE, SOILED ALSO

4364
02:27:35,841 --> 02:27:37,476
REFER PEOPLE TO HIS WORK IN

4365
02:27:37,476 --> 02:27:38,477
ESTABLISHING NEW ROLES OR TRYING

4366
02:27:38,477 --> 02:27:40,212
TO CHANGE ROLES FOR IRB'S IN THE

4367
02:27:40,212 --> 02:27:45,851
WAKE OF NEW HARMS AND BENEFITS

4368
02:27:45,851 --> 02:27:47,619
THAT AI REALLY POSES.

4369
02:27:47,619 --> 02:27:50,489
SO IN SOME IRB'S MAY BE LIMITED

4370
02:27:50,489 --> 02:27:51,757
IN THE DEGREE OF ETHICS

4371
02:27:51,757 --> 02:27:54,626
OVERSIGHT AND INTERVENTION THEY

4372
02:27:54,626 --> 02:27:55,827
CAN HAVE BECAUSE MANY STUDIES

4373
02:27:55,827 --> 02:27:58,797
THAT USE LLM TOOLS FALL OUTSIDE

4374
02:27:58,797 --> 02:28:00,532
THE DEFINITION OF HUMAN SUBJECTS

4375
02:28:00,532 --> 02:28:02,434
RESEARCH, MAYBE TO THE EXTENT

4376
02:28:02,434 --> 02:28:03,635
THEY'RE CONSIDERED HUMAN

4377
02:28:03,635 --> 02:28:05,270
SUBJECTS IRB'S ARE ALSO

4378
02:28:05,270 --> 02:28:06,371
INFREGHTLY STAFFED WITH

4379
02:28:06,371 --> 02:28:09,074
REQUISITE AI AND ML EXPERTISE

4380
02:28:09,074 --> 02:28:13,845
AND DATA PRIVACY EXPERTS TO

4381
02:28:13,845 --> 02:28:15,914
ASSESS AND ATEST THE BALANCING

4382
02:28:15,914 --> 02:28:18,517
OF THOSE REALISTIC HARMS AND

4383
02:28:18,517 --> 02:28:21,887
BENEFIT, AND I'M PART OF A GROUP

4384
02:28:21,887 --> 02:28:26,825
THAT HOLLY TAYLOR LEADS CALLED

4385
02:28:26,825 --> 02:28:28,894
THE AREA CONSORTIUM AND OUR

4386
02:28:28,894 --> 02:28:30,529
SMALL WORKING GROUP HAS STUDIED

4387
02:28:30,529 --> 02:28:33,965
THIS ISSUE OF IRB EXPERTISE AND

4388
02:28:33,965 --> 02:28:35,901
WHETHER AND WHEN THEY USE

4389
02:28:35,901 --> 02:28:43,542
EXTERNAL CONSULTANTS TO FILL IN

4390
02:28:43,542 --> 02:28:44,743
EXPERT GAPS IN THE REVIEW OF

4391
02:28:44,743 --> 02:28:47,813
CERTAIN PROTOCOLS AND DATA

4392
02:28:47,813 --> 02:28:49,448
PRIVACY AND AI WERE SPECIFICALLY

4393
02:28:49,448 --> 02:28:51,416
NOTED IN SOME OF THE INTERVIEWS

4394
02:28:51,416 --> 02:28:53,485
WE CONDUCTED WITH IRB MEMBERS

4395
02:28:53,485 --> 02:28:54,686
ACROSS THE COUNTRY ON THIS ISSUE

4396
02:28:54,686 --> 02:29:02,461
OF EXPERTISE AND MEMBERSHIP SHIP

4397
02:29:02,461 --> 02:29:04,763
EVE DISCUSSED THE TIME IR B'S

4398
02:29:04,763 --> 02:29:07,165
FACE WHEN REVIEWING RESEARCH BUT

4399
02:29:07,165 --> 02:29:10,368
WHAT ABOUT IRB'S OWN USE OF LLM?

4400
02:29:10,368 --> 02:29:11,570
I'VE BEEN REALLY INTERESTED IN

4401
02:29:11,570 --> 02:29:13,872
GROWING MOVEMENTS TOWARDS AND

4402
02:29:13,872 --> 02:29:15,407
TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS OF

4403
02:29:15,407 --> 02:29:16,608
AUTOMATED DECISION SUPPORT

4404
02:29:16,608 --> 02:29:18,376
SYSTEMS FOR ETHICS GOVERNANCE

4405
02:29:18,376 --> 02:29:20,445
AND I HAVE NAMELY LOOKED AND

4406
02:29:20,445 --> 02:29:21,646
RESEARCHED THIS IN THE CONTEXT

4407
02:29:21,646 --> 02:29:24,816
OF DATA ACCESS MANAGEMENT, BUT

4408
02:29:24,816 --> 02:29:26,685
THERE MIGHT BE CONCEIVABLE

4409
02:29:26,685 --> 02:29:32,724
APPLICATIONS OF LLM'S TO IRB

4410
02:29:32,724 --> 02:29:32,958
REVIEW.

4411
02:29:32,958 --> 02:29:36,762
SO COULD LLM'S BE USED TO MAYBE

4412
02:29:36,762 --> 02:29:41,900
SYN THINK SYNTHESIZE -- WITH

4413
02:29:41,900 --> 02:29:44,202
PRIOR PROTOCOLS TO ENSURE IRB

4414
02:29:44,202 --> 02:29:47,272
PRECEDENT AND COULD WE THEN

4415
02:29:47,272 --> 02:29:48,807
AUDIT IRB DECISIONS AND

4416
02:29:48,807 --> 02:29:50,108
HIGHLIGHT, YOU KNOW, ELEMENTS

4417
02:29:50,108 --> 02:29:51,877
THAT RATE WITHIN PROTOCOLS THAT

4418
02:29:51,877 --> 02:29:53,278
RAISE ETHICAL ISSUES TO ENSURE

4419
02:29:53,278 --> 02:29:55,881
THAT THOSE ARE BEING DECIDED ON

4420
02:29:55,881 --> 02:29:59,785
IN A CONSISTENT MANNER?

4421
02:29:59,785 --> 02:30:01,853
AS WE MENTIONED, LLM'S ARE

4422
02:30:01,853 --> 02:30:03,588
REALLY GREAT AT SCREENING AND

4423
02:30:03,588 --> 02:30:04,923
SYNTHESIZING, COULD THEY SCREEN

4424
02:30:04,923 --> 02:30:06,658
DOCUMENTS FOR READABILITY AND

4425
02:30:06,658 --> 02:30:08,093
COMPREHENSION AND POTENTIALLY

4426
02:30:08,093 --> 02:30:09,728
SIMULATE PARTICIPANT PERCEPTIONS

4427
02:30:09,728 --> 02:30:14,833
OF A STUDY AS A POINT OF

4428
02:30:14,833 --> 02:30:18,036
COMMUNITY MEMBERSHIP OR

4429
02:30:18,036 --> 02:30:19,538
COMMUNITY REVIEW, SO SOMETHING

4430
02:30:19,538 --> 02:30:21,106
TO CONSIDER IN TERMS OF AN

4431
02:30:21,106 --> 02:30:25,343
EMERGENT APPLICATION THERE MUCH

4432
02:30:25,343 --> 02:30:26,878
THE LAST PIECE WE'LL TALK ABOUT

4433
02:30:26,878 --> 02:30:28,313
IS DISSEMINATION AND DATA

4434
02:30:28,313 --> 02:30:29,948
SHARING, SO REALLY DATA SHARING

4435
02:30:29,948 --> 02:30:34,052
I SPEND A LOT OF MY ACADEMIC

4436
02:30:34,052 --> 02:30:36,788
RESEARCH TIME ON HOW WE MORE

4437
02:30:36,788 --> 02:30:39,090
WIDELY AND SECURELY SHARE DATA

4438
02:30:39,090 --> 02:30:41,159
AND IT'S NO SURPRISE THAT IT'S A

4439
02:30:41,159 --> 02:30:42,694
CORNERSTONE OF REALLY PROMOTING

4440
02:30:42,694 --> 02:30:44,229
RIGOROUS BIOMEDICAL RESEARCH AND

4441
02:30:44,229 --> 02:30:46,965
IT ENABLES BROADER POPULATION

4442
02:30:46,965 --> 02:30:50,068
INCLUSIVITY, REDUCES WASTE, CAN

4443
02:30:50,068 --> 02:30:52,237
AVOID DUPLICATION AND HELPS

4444
02:30:52,237 --> 02:30:54,105
FOSTER RICH SCIENTIFIC EXCHANGE.

4445
02:30:54,105 --> 02:30:55,740
SO FOR ALL THESE REASONS AND

4446
02:30:55,740 --> 02:30:58,210
MORE, THE NIH AND OTHER RESEARCH

4447
02:30:58,210 --> 02:31:00,011
AGENCIES LIKE IT MAKE DATA

4448
02:31:00,011 --> 02:31:03,849
SHARING A CONDITION OF RESEARCH

4449
02:31:03,849 --> 02:31:04,082
FUNDING.

4450
02:31:04,082 --> 02:31:06,484
SO THESE ARE JUST SOME EXAMPLES

4451
02:31:06,484 --> 02:31:08,153
OF RESEARCH FUNDERS, LARGE

4452
02:31:08,153 --> 02:31:09,354
RESEARCH FUNDERS AROUND THE

4453
02:31:09,354 --> 02:31:12,424
WORLD THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW,

4454
02:31:12,424 --> 02:31:14,492
EXPLICIT RULES AND POLICIES

4455
02:31:14,492 --> 02:31:16,895
AROUND SHARING DATA THAT STEM

4456
02:31:16,895 --> 02:31:21,833
FROM PROJECTS WITH FUNDING.

4457
02:31:21,833 --> 02:31:25,871
S ENTS RECENTLY THE WHITEHOUSE

4458
02:31:25,871 --> 02:31:26,538
OFFICE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

4459
02:31:26,538 --> 02:31:27,839
POLICY ANNOUNCED IT WOULD

4460
02:31:27,839 --> 02:31:30,041
MANDATE SHARING OF SCIENTIFIC

4461
02:31:30,041 --> 02:31:34,012
DATA STEMMING FROM FEDERALLY

4462
02:31:34,012 --> 02:31:35,547
FUNDED RESEARCH THAT IS OF

4463
02:31:35,547 --> 02:31:36,514
SUFFICIENT QUALITY TO VALIDATE

4464
02:31:36,514 --> 02:31:37,849
AND REPLICATE THE FINDINGS AND

4465
02:31:37,849 --> 02:31:39,284
TO MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THE

4466
02:31:39,284 --> 02:31:41,586
PUBLIC BY DEFAULT AT LEAST UPON

4467
02:31:41,586 --> 02:31:43,054
PUBLICATION.

4468
02:31:43,054 --> 02:31:47,559
SO MY COLLEAGUE KATE SPECTOR AT

4469
02:31:47,559 --> 02:31:48,560
THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN WROTE

4470
02:31:48,560 --> 02:31:50,996
IN A PIECE ELOQUENTLY ABOUT THE

4471
02:31:50,996 --> 02:31:52,530
IMPLICATIONS OF GENERATIVE AI

4472
02:31:52,530 --> 02:31:54,165
FOR THINGS LIKE DATA INTEGRITY,

4473
02:31:54,165 --> 02:31:55,700
THAT DATA SHARING AND THE

4474
02:31:55,700 --> 02:31:57,435
INTEGRITY OF THAT DATA AGAIN IS

4475
02:31:57,435 --> 02:31:59,905
REALLY THE BACKBONE OF THE

4476
02:31:59,905 --> 02:32:02,374
MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH

4477
02:32:02,374 --> 02:32:04,309
ENTERPRISE BUT WE'VE STRUGGLED

4478
02:32:04,309 --> 02:32:06,077
TO ENFORCE AND ENSURE STANDARDS

4479
02:32:06,077 --> 02:32:09,381
FOR THINGS LIKE VALIDITY,

4480
02:32:09,381 --> 02:32:12,217
REPRODUCIBILITY, TRANSPARENCY

4481
02:32:12,217 --> 02:32:15,820
AND REPLICABILITY AS IT IS.

4482
02:32:15,820 --> 02:32:18,323
SO I THINK THIS REALLY, YOU

4483
02:32:18,323 --> 02:32:20,892
KNOW, RAZORS AGAIN HOW SYNTHETIC

4484
02:32:20,892 --> 02:32:22,894
DATASETS GENERATED BY LLM'S CAN

4485
02:32:22,894 --> 02:32:25,864
BE SHARED AND COULD THEY EVER BE

4486
02:32:25,864 --> 02:32:28,934
SUFFICIENT QUALITY TO ENABLE

4487
02:32:28,934 --> 02:32:30,435
REPLICABILITY AS REQUIRED UNDER

4488
02:32:30,435 --> 02:32:32,904
THE NEW REGS.

4489
02:32:32,904 --> 02:32:34,539
AND I THINK I WOULD BE REMISS IF

4490
02:32:34,539 --> 02:32:36,608
I DIDN'T ALSO DRAW ATTENTION TO

4491
02:32:36,608 --> 02:32:40,078
A REALLY RECENT EXECUTIVE ORDER

4492
02:32:40,078 --> 02:32:42,514
THAT WAS RECENTLY RELEASED BY

4493
02:32:42,514 --> 02:32:44,049
PRESIDENT BIDEN ON SAFE, SECURE

4494
02:32:44,049 --> 02:32:45,583
AND TRUSTWORTHY AI.

4495
02:32:45,583 --> 02:32:47,018
SO WHILE NOT SPECIFIC TO DATA

4496
02:32:47,018 --> 02:32:48,420
SHARING PER SE, I WANTED TO TAKE

4497
02:32:48,420 --> 02:32:52,357
A MOMENT TO REVIEW THIS REALLY

4498
02:32:52,357 --> 02:32:53,692
SIGNIFICANT EVENT THAT HAPPENED

4499
02:32:53,692 --> 02:32:57,762
JUST TWO DAYS AGO AND HIGHLIGHT

4500
02:32:57,762 --> 02:33:01,566
SOME OF THE NEW STANDARDS THAT

4501
02:33:01,566 --> 02:33:03,535
WILL BE COMING DOWN THE

4502
02:33:03,535 --> 02:33:04,402
PIPELINE.

4503
02:33:04,402 --> 02:33:07,372
PRESIDENT BIDEN IS INVOKING THE

4504
02:33:07,372 --> 02:33:08,773
DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT TO DO

4505
02:33:08,773 --> 02:33:09,808
KIND OF ALL OF THE FOLLOWING

4506
02:33:09,808 --> 02:33:11,409
THAT'S LISTED ON THIS SLIDE, AND

4507
02:33:11,409 --> 02:33:14,245
I'LL HIGHLIGHT JUST ONE BEFORE

4508
02:33:14,245 --> 02:33:16,348
WE GO TO QUESTIONS AND

4509
02:33:16,348 --> 02:33:17,649
DISCUSSION THAT I THINK WILL BE

4510
02:33:17,649 --> 02:33:18,616
OF PARTICULAR RELEVANCE TO

4511
02:33:18,616 --> 02:33:19,651
RESEARCHERS AND USERS OF

4512
02:33:19,651 --> 02:33:21,486
COMMERCIAL LLM'S, AND THAT'S

4513
02:33:21,486 --> 02:33:24,089
UNDER THE SUPPORT FOR CONSUMERS,

4514
02:33:24,089 --> 02:33:24,856
PATIENTS AND STUDENTS.

4515
02:33:24,856 --> 02:33:27,292
SO THE ORDER WILL COMPEL

4516
02:33:27,292 --> 02:33:30,228
COMPANIES AND DEVELOPERS TO TAG

4517
02:33:30,228 --> 02:33:31,529
AI-SUPPORTED OR GENERATED

4518
02:33:31,529 --> 02:33:33,832
CONTENT AND TO MAKE THAT CONTENT

4519
02:33:33,832 --> 02:33:36,234
TRANSPARENT TO USERS.

4520
02:33:36,234 --> 02:33:38,103
SO I THINK THAT'S OF PARTICULAR

4521
02:33:38,103 --> 02:33:40,739
RELEVANCE WHEN RESEARCHERS ARE

4522
02:33:40,739 --> 02:33:43,375
USING DIFFERENT TYPES OF LLM'S

4523
02:33:43,375 --> 02:33:46,978
ACROSS THE RESEARCH PROCESS.

4524
02:33:46,978 --> 02:33:48,279
SO I'M GOING TO LEAVE IT THERE

4525
02:33:48,279 --> 02:33:49,581
AND PERHAPS IN THE TIME WE HAVE

4526
02:33:49,581 --> 02:33:53,551
FOR DISCUSSIONS, WE'LL SHOW A

4527
02:33:53,551 --> 02:33:56,955
LIVE DEMONSTRATION OF -- THAT

4528
02:33:56,955 --> 02:33:58,056
HIGHLIGHTS HOW SOME OF THESE

4529
02:33:58,056 --> 02:34:01,092
TOPICS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MIGHT

4530
02:34:01,092 --> 02:34:03,294
BE USED BY USING CHATGPT.

4531
02:34:03,294 --> 02:34:10,268
SO I'LL STOP SHARING NOW.

4532
02:34:10,268 --> 02:34:11,469
AND OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS.

4533
02:34:11,469 --> 02:34:14,973
>> THANKS, VASO, BIG ROUND
OF

4534
02:34:14,973 --> 02:34:15,974
APPLAUSE FROM YOUR EIGHT OR NINE

4535
02:34:15,974 --> 02:34:19,811
OF US WHO ARE IN PERSON.

4536
02:34:19,811 --> 02:34:25,383
WE HAVE THOSE IN PERSON WHO HAVE

4537
02:34:25,383 --> 02:34:26,418
MICS THAT THEY CAN ASK QUESTIONS

4538
02:34:26,418 --> 02:34:27,685
AND THEN I ALSO HAVE SOME

4539
02:34:27,685 --> 02:34:29,521
QUESTIONS FROM OUR VIRTUAL

4540
02:34:29,521 --> 02:34:31,189
AUDIENCE, BUT JASMINE IS AT THE

4541
02:34:31,189 --> 02:34:33,024
MIC AND SHE'S GOING TO ASK HER

4542
02:34:33,024 --> 02:34:33,525
FIRST QUESTION.

4543
02:34:33,525 --> 02:34:34,192
>> HI.

4544
02:34:34,192 --> 02:34:36,327
>> HI, JAZZ ZION THANKS
FOR

4545
02:34:36,327 --> 02:34:36,761
THIS.

4546
02:34:36,761 --> 02:34:40,899
SO I THOUGHT THIS SYNTHETIC DATA

4547
02:34:40,899 --> 02:34:42,434
BIT THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT

4548
02:34:42,434 --> 02:34:44,636
WAS REALLY FASCINATING.

4549
02:34:44,636 --> 02:34:47,572
AND I WAS HOPING YOU COULD TALK

4550
02:34:47,572 --> 02:34:51,743
A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.

4551
02:34:51,743 --> 02:34:53,478
SPECIFICALLY, I'M INTERESTED IN

4552
02:34:53,478 --> 02:34:55,113
LIKE SYNTHETIC DATA WAS KIND OF

4553
02:34:55,113 --> 02:34:58,116
A STRIKING NAME, AND FROM A LOT

4554
02:34:58,116 --> 02:34:59,517
OF YOUR DISCUSSION OF IT, IT

4555
02:34:59,517 --> 02:35:00,952
REALLY SOUNDS MORE LIKE IT'S

4556
02:35:00,952 --> 02:35:03,588
LIKE MODELING OR SOMETHING.

4557
02:35:03,588 --> 02:35:05,690
SO I GUESS IN WHAT SENSE DO YOU

4558
02:35:05,690 --> 02:35:10,929
THINK IT REALLY IS DATA, AND DO

4559
02:35:10,929 --> 02:35:13,865
YOU THINK THAT'S LIKE A

4560
02:35:13,865 --> 02:35:15,133
DELIBERATE MISNOMER, OR DO YOU

4561
02:35:15,133 --> 02:35:16,401
THINK IT'S LIKE ACCURATE AND

4562
02:35:16,401 --> 02:35:18,470
FAIR IN SOME WAYS?

4563
02:35:18,470 --> 02:35:19,704
I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A LITTLE

4564
02:35:19,704 --> 02:35:22,474
BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.

4565
02:35:22,474 --> 02:35:24,175
>> ALL REALLY PRESS AND GO

4566
02:35:24,175 --> 02:35:26,778
RECURRING QUESTIONS THAT I ASK

4567
02:35:26,778 --> 02:35:29,013
MYSELF THE SAME THING, JASMINE.

4568
02:35:29,013 --> 02:35:30,949
I THINK THE SYNTHETIC PART IS A

4569
02:35:30,949 --> 02:35:34,219
BIT OF A MISNOMER BECAUSE IT

4570
02:35:34,219 --> 02:35:35,487
ASSUMES THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS

4571
02:35:35,487 --> 02:35:38,423
DATA HAS NO RELEVANCE TO

4572
02:35:38,423 --> 02:35:40,091
INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE OR COMMUNITIES

4573
02:35:40,091 --> 02:35:42,260
OR PHENOMENON, AND SO I THINK

4574
02:35:42,260 --> 02:35:43,795
FROM THAT RESPECT, YOU KNOW,

4575
02:35:43,795 --> 02:35:47,532
PEOPLE HAVE THIS I THINK

4576
02:35:47,532 --> 02:35:50,602
INCORRECT OR FALSE SENSE OF

4577
02:35:50,602 --> 02:35:55,306
SECURITY THAT IT WILL BE ABLE TO

4578
02:35:55,306 --> 02:35:58,810
CIRCUMVENT ALL OUR PRIVACY AND

4579
02:35:58,810 --> 02:36:02,981
CONFIDENTIALITY ISSUES, WHEN

4580
02:36:02,981 --> 02:36:04,482
THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE.

4581
02:36:04,482 --> 02:36:05,850
I DO THINK IT IS DATA AND I

4582
02:36:05,850 --> 02:36:07,819
THINK THIS IS SORT OF A LARGER

4583
02:36:07,819 --> 02:36:08,887
ALMOST PHILOSOPHY OF SCIENCE

4584
02:36:08,887 --> 02:36:10,722
QUESTION ABOUT WHAT IS DATA, BUT

4585
02:36:10,722 --> 02:36:14,492
I THINK, YOU KNOW, DATA THAT ARE

4586
02:36:14,492 --> 02:36:16,361
REPRESENTATIVE OF PHENOMENON,

4587
02:36:16,361 --> 02:36:18,663
THAT'S HOW I BROADLY CONSTRUE

4588
02:36:18,663 --> 02:36:21,266
WHAT DATA ARE, THAT I THINK IT

4589
02:36:21,266 --> 02:36:24,869
IS STILL CONSIDERED DATA, BUT I

4590
02:36:24,869 --> 02:36:31,009
WORRY ABOUT HOW IT -- IT DOES

4591
02:36:31,009 --> 02:36:32,110
INNATELY FALL UNDER THE

4592
02:36:32,110 --> 02:36:33,311
REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS FOR DATA

4593
02:36:33,311 --> 02:36:35,613
AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST, AND I

4594
02:36:35,613 --> 02:36:39,117
THINK WILL BE USED TO, YOU KNOW,

4595
02:36:39,117 --> 02:36:40,652
CIRCUMVENT ETHICAL OVERSIGHT

4596
02:36:40,652 --> 02:36:43,488
PROCESSES LIKE IRB REVIEW, LIKE

4597
02:36:43,488 --> 02:36:45,890
HIPAA WHEN, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY

4598
02:36:45,890 --> 02:36:48,426
STILL BE THREATS THAT BOTH OF

4599
02:36:48,426 --> 02:36:52,030
THOSE SAFEGUARDS ARE IMPLEMENTED

4600
02:36:52,030 --> 02:36:53,698
TO HELP PROTECT.

4601
02:36:53,698 --> 02:36:57,569
SO THIS IS A REALLY EVOLVING

4602
02:36:57,569 --> 02:36:59,103
QUESTION AND ISSUE AND CERTAINLY

4603
02:36:59,103 --> 02:37:02,807
NOT ONE THAT I THINK IRB'S AND

4604
02:37:02,807 --> 02:37:04,209
TRADITIONAL INSTITUTIONAL ETHICS

4605
02:37:04,209 --> 02:37:05,777
OVERSIGHT BODIES HAVE

4606
02:37:05,777 --> 02:37:07,745
ENCOUNTERED BEFORE.

4607
02:37:07,745 --> 02:37:09,247
>> THANK YOU.

4608
02:37:09,247 --> 02:37:11,482
>> THANKS.

4609
02:37:11,482 --> 02:37:13,851
WE HAVE CHLOE ALSO HERE IN THE

4610
02:37:13,851 --> 02:37:14,152
AUDITORIUM.

4611
02:37:14,152 --> 02:37:15,486
>> I ALSO HAVE A
CLARIFYING

4612
02:37:15,486 --> 02:37:17,255
QUESTION ON THE SYNTHETIC DATA.

4613
02:37:17,255 --> 02:37:18,489
I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY

4614
02:37:18,489 --> 02:37:20,992
INTERESTING HEARING YOUR

4615
02:37:20,992 --> 02:37:21,292
PERSPECTIVE.

4616
02:37:21,292 --> 02:37:23,628
BUT I DON'T REALLY SEE HOW IT'S

4617
02:37:23,628 --> 02:37:24,829
THAT NOVEL BECAUSE TO ME, IT

4618
02:37:24,829 --> 02:37:27,599
SEEMS LIKE THE SAME THING IS

4619
02:37:27,599 --> 02:37:29,901
BOOTSTRAPPING AND LIKE IS

4620
02:37:29,901 --> 02:37:31,669
THERE -- ARE THERE MORE AVENUES

4621
02:37:31,669 --> 02:37:33,171
FOR SYSTEMATIC BIAS TO CREEP IN

4622
02:37:33,171 --> 02:37:34,806
THAT WE CAN'T DETECT RS OR IS IT

4623
02:37:34,806 --> 02:37:36,908
KIND OF THE SAME AS

4624
02:37:36,908 --> 02:37:38,009
BOOTSTRAPPING WHERE AS LONG AS

4625
02:37:38,009 --> 02:37:39,110
THE INITIAL SAMPLE IS ALL RIGHT,

4626
02:37:39,110 --> 02:37:40,278
THERE'S NOT REALLY THAT MANY

4627
02:37:40,278 --> 02:37:43,915
AVENUES FOR MORE BIAS?

4628
02:37:43,915 --> 02:37:47,185
>> I THINK IT'S I'VE GREAT

4629
02:37:47,185 --> 02:37:47,952
OBSERVATION, AND THE ONE WAY

4630
02:37:47,952 --> 02:37:51,356
THAT I THINK IT COULD BE

4631
02:37:51,356 --> 02:37:53,758
DIFFERENT IS THERE'S SOME

4632
02:37:53,758 --> 02:37:56,394
SCHOLARS WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT

4633
02:37:56,394 --> 02:37:59,130
THE POSSIBILITY OF THERE BEING A

4634
02:37:59,130 --> 02:38:01,299
SYNTHETIC DATA COLLAPSE, SO AT

4635
02:38:01,299 --> 02:38:03,801
SOME POINT IN THE LEARNING

4636
02:38:03,801 --> 02:38:05,303
PROCESS, YOU ARE FEEDING, YOU

4637
02:38:05,303 --> 02:38:07,305
KNOW, NEW INPUTS, YOU'RE

4638
02:38:07,305 --> 02:38:09,173
GENERATING BETTER REFINED

4639
02:38:09,173 --> 02:38:11,909
OUTPUTS, BUT IF THOSE INPUTS ARE

4640
02:38:11,909 --> 02:38:14,646
FROM AI-GENERATED CONTENT

4641
02:38:14,646 --> 02:38:15,847
ITSELF, YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS

4642
02:38:15,847 --> 02:38:19,917
KIND OF CIRCUITOUS LOOP OF

4643
02:38:19,917 --> 02:38:20,918
AI-GENERATED CONTENT BEING FED

4644
02:38:20,918 --> 02:38:23,621
IN AND AI-GENERATED CONTENT

4645
02:38:23,621 --> 02:38:26,257
BEING FED OUT AND ALTHOUGH SOME

4646
02:38:26,257 --> 02:38:29,527
POINT IT WILL CREATE A

4647
02:38:29,527 --> 02:38:30,728
COLLAPSE -- AND AT SOME POINT IT

4648
02:38:30,728 --> 02:38:32,497
WILL CREATE A COLLAPSE OF THE

4649
02:38:32,497 --> 02:38:33,464
WHOLE MODEL AND THE WHOLE

4650
02:38:33,464 --> 02:38:35,366
SYSTEM, SO I THINK IN THIS THAT

4651
02:38:35,366 --> 02:38:36,668
WAY THIS PHENOMENON OF COLLAPSE

4652
02:38:36,668 --> 02:38:38,636
IS DIFFERENT THAN BOOTSTRAPPING

4653
02:38:38,636 --> 02:38:40,605
AND I THINK POSES A GREATER

4654
02:38:40,605 --> 02:38:43,875
THREAT TO, YOU KNOW, RIGOR AND

4655
02:38:43,875 --> 02:38:44,976
REPRODUCIBILITY THAT

4656
02:38:44,976 --> 02:38:46,844
BOOTSTRAPPING CAN ACTUALLY,

4657
02:38:46,844 --> 02:38:48,913
BECAUSE IT'S HUMAN SUPERVISED

4658
02:38:48,913 --> 02:38:52,083
AND OVERSEEN, THAT IT CAN

4659
02:38:52,083 --> 02:38:53,951
OVERCOME BETTER THAN SYNTHETIC

4660
02:38:53,951 --> 02:38:54,285
DATA.

4661
02:38:54,285 --> 02:38:57,221
SO I THINK IN ONE WAY, THAT'S

4662
02:38:57,221 --> 02:39:00,224
ONE ASPECT, I THINK IT'S A

4663
02:39:00,224 --> 02:39:00,825
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

4664
02:39:00,825 --> 02:39:03,661
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT TO SAY THAT

4665
02:39:03,661 --> 02:39:05,630
COMPUTATIONALLY THIS IS A

4666
02:39:05,630 --> 02:39:09,267
SIMILAR IDEA, BUT THAT BECAUSE

4667
02:39:09,267 --> 02:39:13,538
THERE'S LESS HUMAN INTERVENTION,

4668
02:39:13,538 --> 02:39:16,174
THIS COLLAPSE SPROB A REAL

4669
02:39:16,174 --> 02:39:16,941
ISSUE.

4670
02:39:16,941 --> 02:39:18,376
-- COLLAPSE PROBLEM IS A REAL

4671
02:39:18,376 --> 02:39:18,576
ISSUE.

4672
02:39:18,576 --> 02:39:19,677
>> THANK YOU.

4673
02:39:19,677 --> 02:39:20,978
SYNTHETIC TOUCHED A LOT OF

4674
02:39:20,978 --> 02:39:22,080
NERVES, I GUESS, SO WE HAVE A

4675
02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:23,715
QUESTION FROM LAURA HERE.

4676
02:39:23,715 --> 02:39:25,683
YOU MENTIONED SYNTHETIC DATA CAN

4677
02:39:25,683 --> 02:39:28,419
BE USED TO CONTROL FOR BIASES.

4678
02:39:28,419 --> 02:39:29,620
CONSIDERING, HOWEVER, THAT A LOT

4679
02:39:29,620 --> 02:39:32,156
OF REAL WORLD DATA CAN BE SKEWED

4680
02:39:32,156 --> 02:39:33,891
TOWARDS WHITE SUBJECTS, FOR

4681
02:39:33,891 --> 02:39:37,395
EXAMPLE, STLINLT A RISK OF EX-S

4682
02:39:37,395 --> 02:39:39,497
A -- STLINT A RISK OF EX---

4683
02:39:39,497 --> 02:39:44,435
ISN'T THERE A RISK OF EXACERBATE

4684
02:39:44,435 --> 02:39:44,635
ING --

4685
02:39:44,635 --> 02:39:46,270
>> I THINK EXACERBATION
COMES

4686
02:39:46,270 --> 02:39:48,072
FROM RESEARCHERS AND THOSE

4687
02:39:48,072 --> 02:39:49,674
CONDUCTING THE RESEARCH TO NOT

4688
02:39:49,674 --> 02:39:53,978
THINK THAT REPRESENTATION IS A

4689
02:39:53,978 --> 02:39:56,681
HALLMARK OF RIGOROUS RESEARCH.

4690
02:39:56,681 --> 02:39:58,783
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT

4691
02:39:58,783 --> 02:40:01,753
SYNTHETIC DATA TRIES TO DO IS IT

4692
02:40:01,753 --> 02:40:03,721
ACKNOWLEDGES THOSE MISSING DATA

4693
02:40:03,721 --> 02:40:06,791
OR UNDERREPRESENTATIONS AT THE

4694
02:40:06,791 --> 02:40:09,861
FIRST INSTANCE AND TRIES TO

4695
02:40:09,861 --> 02:40:12,230
MITIGATE BY OVERSAMPLING OR BY,

4696
02:40:12,230 --> 02:40:16,567
YOU KNOW, FITTING THE DATA WITH

4697
02:40:16,567 --> 02:40:19,504
MORE DIVERSE DATA POINTS.

4698
02:40:19,504 --> 02:40:22,573
SO I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY AN

4699
02:40:22,573 --> 02:40:24,876
OPPORTUNITY FOR BIAS TO BE

4700
02:40:24,876 --> 02:40:26,878
EXACERBATED WHEN DIVERSITY ISN'T

4701
02:40:26,878 --> 02:40:29,580
A PRIORITY AMONG RESEARCHERS AND

4702
02:40:29,580 --> 02:40:33,317
THOSE WHO, YOU KNOW, ARE

4703
02:40:33,317 --> 02:40:36,154
COMMITTED TO CONVENIENCE

4704
02:40:36,154 --> 02:40:39,524
SAMPLING AND FITTING DATA THAT

4705
02:40:39,524 --> 02:40:41,826
WILL EVENTUALLY COME TO THE

4706
02:40:41,826 --> 02:40:44,228
ANSWER THAT RESEARCHERS WANT.

4707
02:40:44,228 --> 02:40:47,298
SO I THINK THE SAME ISSUE OF

4708
02:40:47,298 --> 02:40:49,367
OVERFITTING AND NOT RECOGNIZING

4709
02:40:49,367 --> 02:40:51,836
THE IMPORTANCE OF DIVERSITY IN

4710
02:40:51,836 --> 02:40:53,438
THE DATASET STILL REMAINS,

4711
02:40:53,438 --> 02:40:55,306
WHETHER YOU USE SYNTHETIC DATA

4712
02:40:55,306 --> 02:40:56,941
OR REAL WORLD DATA.

4713
02:40:56,941 --> 02:41:02,180
SO IT'S ABSOLUTELY AN IMPORTANT

4714
02:41:02,180 --> 02:41:02,380
POINT.

4715
02:41:02,380 --> 02:41:02,980
>> GREAT.

4716
02:41:02,980 --> 02:41:04,949
A COUPLE OTHER QUESTIONS FROM

4717
02:41:04,949 --> 02:41:06,350
OUR VIRTUAL AUDIENCE.

4718
02:41:06,350 --> 02:41:08,085
SO ONE, THEY'RE BOTH A LITTLE

4719
02:41:08,085 --> 02:41:11,155
MORE, I'LL CALL THEM A LITTLE

4720
02:41:11,155 --> 02:41:13,691
MORE PHILOSOPHICAL, AND I KNOW

4721
02:41:13,691 --> 02:41:14,759
YOU'RE UP FOR THAT.

4722
02:41:14,759 --> 02:41:17,495
THE FIRST ONE IS, IN TERMS OF

4723
02:41:17,495 --> 02:41:19,864
ORIGINALITY AND GENERATIVE AI,

4724
02:41:19,864 --> 02:41:22,767
MOST OF THE TIMES I FIND AI

4725
02:41:22,767 --> 02:41:24,602
IDEAS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, TO BE

4726
02:41:24,602 --> 02:41:25,837
PREDICTABLE AND SOMETIMES

4727
02:41:25,837 --> 02:41:28,439
INFERIOR TO HUMAN-GENERATED

4728
02:41:28,439 --> 02:41:30,007
IDEAS, UNLESS THE HUMAN IS

4729
02:41:30,007 --> 02:41:31,542
OVERWORKED AND OVERSTRESSED.

4730
02:41:31,542 --> 02:41:33,578
IN A WORLD WHERE AI IS USED

4731
02:41:33,578 --> 02:41:36,647
OFTEN TO ACCELERATE OUTPUT,

4732
02:41:36,647 --> 02:41:37,949
BURNOUT MIGHT BE MORE LIKELY TO

4733
02:41:37,949 --> 02:41:40,585
OCCUR, THUS POTENTIALLY INCREASE

4734
02:41:40,585 --> 02:41:42,920
BEING OUR DEPENDENCY ON AI.

4735
02:41:42,920 --> 02:41:46,724
ARE WE POTENTIALLY CREATING A

4736
02:41:46,724 --> 02:41:47,825
POSITIVE FEEDBACK LOOP THAT

4737
02:41:47,825 --> 02:41:49,260
MAKES US MORE DEPENDENT?

4738
02:41:49,260 --> 02:41:51,329
>> IT'S ALMOST LUNCHTIME.

4739
02:41:51,329 --> 02:41:53,097
>> YES, I KNOW, EXACTLY
RIGHT.

4740
02:41:53,097 --> 02:41:54,732
A FEEDBACK LOOP THAT MAKES US

4741
02:41:54,732 --> 02:41:58,970
MORE DEPENDENT ON AI.

4742
02:41:58,970 --> 02:42:03,841
>> IT IS A PHILOSOPHICAL

4743
02:42:03,841 --> 02:42:06,878
QUESTION ABOUT THE NATURE OF

4744
02:42:06,878 --> 02:42:09,313
LABOR, I THINK VERCH A TYPE OF

4745
02:42:09,313 --> 02:42:10,948
LABOR -- VERCH A TYPE OF

4746
02:42:10,948 --> 02:42:12,717
LABOR -- RESEARCH IS A TYPE OF

4747
02:42:12,717 --> 02:42:13,885
LABOR, INTELLECTUAL LABOR, AND

4748
02:42:13,885 --> 02:42:17,522
OUR DEMAND FOR AI IS EXACTLY

4749
02:42:17,522 --> 02:42:18,923
REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NEEDS WE

4750
02:42:18,923 --> 02:42:22,927
SEE IN OUR EVERYDAY LIFEMENT SO,

4751
02:42:22,927 --> 02:42:25,062
YOU KNOW, THE THREAT OF BURNOUT,

4752
02:42:25,062 --> 02:42:27,798
THE THREAT OF INCENTIVES THAT

4753
02:42:27,798 --> 02:42:29,300
INSTITUTIONS AND RESEARCH

4754
02:42:29,300 --> 02:42:30,635
STRUCTURES, YOU KNOW, IMPOSE ON

4755
02:42:30,635 --> 02:42:34,338
THOSE OF US TO CONTINUOUSLY

4756
02:42:34,338 --> 02:42:36,874
INNOVATE, TO COME UP WITH NOVEL

4757
02:42:36,874 --> 02:42:39,944
RESEARCH IDEAS, THAT'S I THINK

4758
02:42:39,944 --> 02:42:42,246
WHAT DRIVES PEOPLE OR

4759
02:42:42,246 --> 02:42:44,348
INCENTIVIZES PEOPLE TO LOOK FOR

4760
02:42:44,348 --> 02:42:47,285
WAYS TO IMPROVE EFFICIENCY AND

4761
02:42:47,285 --> 02:42:50,121
TO GENERATE THESE PRODUCTS THAT

4762
02:42:50,121 --> 02:42:51,656
WE'RE OBVIOUSLY REWARDED BY,

4763
02:42:51,656 --> 02:42:52,957
THING LIKE PUBLICATION,

4764
02:42:52,957 --> 02:42:54,225
PROMOTION, ET CETERA.

4765
02:42:54,225 --> 02:42:57,094
SO I ABSOLUTELY THINK THAT

4766
02:42:57,094 --> 02:42:58,396
CONSIDERING RESEARCH AS A TYPE

4767
02:42:58,396 --> 02:43:03,868
OF HUMAN LABOR, WHICH AI CAN

4768
02:43:03,868 --> 02:43:06,070
HELP OVERCOME, YOU KNOW,

4769
02:43:06,070 --> 02:43:07,371
RATE-LIMITING STEPS AND THE

4770
02:43:07,371 --> 02:43:10,841
REASONS FOR WHY WE INTEGRATE AI

4771
02:43:10,841 --> 02:43:13,177
INTO DIFFERENT WORKFLOWS IS A

4772
02:43:13,177 --> 02:43:16,180
DIRECT COMMENTARY ON AREAS OF,

4773
02:43:16,180 --> 02:43:18,516
YOU KNOW, OUR CURRENT LABOR THAT

4774
02:43:18,516 --> 02:43:22,153
WE WEREN'T ABLE TO MEET OR WE

4775
02:43:22,153 --> 02:43:23,688
STRUGGLE TO MEET.

4776
02:43:23,688 --> 02:43:26,958
AND THOSE ARE ENVIRONMENTAL AND

4777
02:43:26,958 --> 02:43:28,926
SOCIAL CONDITIONS, IN MY

4778
02:43:28,926 --> 02:43:29,360
PERSPECTIVE.

4779
02:43:29,360 --> 02:43:31,128
BUT IT'S FOR SURE I THINK

4780
02:43:31,128 --> 02:43:32,763
REMINISCENT OF THIS LARGER

4781
02:43:32,763 --> 02:43:33,631
PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION ABOUT

4782
02:43:33,631 --> 02:43:37,034
WHAT IS LABOR, HUMAN LABOR, AND

4783
02:43:37,034 --> 02:43:42,940
HOW CAN AI SUPPORT SOME OF THE

4784
02:43:42,940 --> 02:43:44,675
REDUNDANCIES IN HUMAN LABOR

4785
02:43:44,675 --> 02:43:46,143
WHILE FREEING UP THE MIND TO

4786
02:43:46,143 --> 02:43:47,411
DO -- THE HUMAN MIND WHAT IT

4787
02:43:47,411 --> 02:43:49,180
DOES BEST, WHICH I THINK IS

4788
02:43:49,180 --> 02:43:53,517
INNOVATE AND CREATE AND BE NOSM.

4789
02:43:53,517 --> 02:43:55,519
BUT I LOVE THE QUESTION -- AND

4790
02:43:55,519 --> 02:43:56,387
BE NOVEL.

4791
02:43:56,387 --> 02:43:58,255
BUT I LOVE THE QUESTION, AND I

4792
02:43:58,255 --> 02:44:00,424
WOULD WELCOME ANY TYPE OF

4793
02:44:00,424 --> 02:44:02,526
COLLABORATION THAT HELPS TO

4794
02:44:02,526 --> 02:44:04,528
EXPLORE IT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.

4795
02:44:04,528 --> 02:44:06,330
>> MORE FOOD FOR THOUGHT
IN THAT

4796
02:44:06,330 --> 02:44:06,764
CASE.

4797
02:44:06,764 --> 02:44:08,466
>> MORE FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

4798
02:44:08,466 --> 02:44:09,266
>> OKAY.

4799
02:44:09,266 --> 02:44:11,802
SO WE'LL TAKE THIS ONE LAST

4800
02:44:11,802 --> 02:44:12,069
QUESTION.

4801
02:44:12,069 --> 02:44:13,537
COULD YOU TALK -- THIS IS FROM

4802
02:44:13,537 --> 02:44:13,771
MICHAEL.

4803
02:44:13,771 --> 02:44:15,539
COULD YOU TALK A BIT MORE ABOUT

4804
02:44:15,539 --> 02:44:17,274
THE SUBJECT OF ORIGINALITY IN

4805
02:44:17,274 --> 02:44:20,778
REGARDS TO AI AND HUMAN RESEARCH

4806
02:44:20,778 --> 02:44:22,213
PROCESS GENERATION -- RESEARCH

4807
02:44:22,213 --> 02:44:23,147
PROCESS GENERATION?

4808
02:44:23,147 --> 02:44:26,250
IF THE LLM'S ARE AT THE MOMENT

4809
02:44:26,250 --> 02:44:27,885
PARROTING, QUOTE, UNQUOTE,

4810
02:44:27,885 --> 02:44:29,220
EXISTING INFORMATION, HOW COULD

4811
02:44:29,220 --> 02:44:33,591
IT GENERATE NEW RESEARCH

4812
02:44:33,591 --> 02:44:33,858
QUESTIONS?

4813
02:44:33,858 --> 02:44:37,795
YEAH, THIS IS THE EXACT

4814
02:44:37,795 --> 02:44:40,097
QUESTION I ASK MYSELF, AND EVEN

4815
02:44:40,097 --> 02:44:44,335
STEPPING BACK, IS ORIGINALITY A

4816
02:44:44,335 --> 02:44:45,670
NOVELTY NECESSARY IN THE

4817
02:44:45,670 --> 02:44:47,304
RESEARCH PROCESS?

4818
02:44:47,304 --> 02:44:49,607
AND SO I THINK TO THE EXTENT

4819
02:44:49,607 --> 02:44:54,178
THAT YOU PROMPT LLM'S TO, YOU

4820
02:44:54,178 --> 02:44:56,714
KNOW, SUMMATE INFORMATION OR

4821
02:44:56,714 --> 02:44:57,782
SYNTHESIZE INFORMATION, YOU

4822
02:44:57,782 --> 02:44:59,016
KNOW, THERE ARE DIFFERENT TASKS

4823
02:44:59,016 --> 02:45:02,620
YOU CAN POSE LLM'S TO DO.

4824
02:45:02,620 --> 02:45:05,022
SO I THINK IN A CERTAIN CONTEXT,

4825
02:45:05,022 --> 02:45:09,727
YOU COULD HAVE AN LLM, YOU KNOW,

4826
02:45:09,727 --> 02:45:13,230
SUMMARIZE AN ENTIRE FIELD OF

4827
02:45:13,230 --> 02:45:16,634
RESEARCH, AND THAT SUMMARY HELPS

4828
02:45:16,634 --> 02:45:18,803
YOU, AS I SAID, IDENTIFY CERTAIN

4829
02:45:18,803 --> 02:45:21,338
GAPS THAT ARE RELEVANT OR WITHIN

4830
02:45:21,338 --> 02:45:22,740
YOUR OWN RESEARCH CONTEXT BE

4831
02:45:22,740 --> 02:45:26,911
ABLE TO APPLY THAT SYNTHESIS AS

4832
02:45:26,911 --> 02:45:28,779
SORT OF A LAUNCH POINT FOR

4833
02:45:28,779 --> 02:45:31,749
SOMETHING ELSE.

4834
02:45:31,749 --> 02:45:33,484
SO I THINK IT IS NOVEL IN THE

4835
02:45:33,484 --> 02:45:36,654
SENSE THAT IT HELPS PUT PEN TO

4836
02:45:36,654 --> 02:45:38,856
PAPER, WHICH IS SOMETIMES A

4837
02:45:38,856 --> 02:45:39,757
RATE-LIMITING STEP IN THE

4838
02:45:39,757 --> 02:45:42,927
RESEARCH PROCESS, WHETHER IT CAN

4839
02:45:42,927 --> 02:45:45,529
GENERATE ENTIRELY NEW IDEAS

4840
02:45:45,529 --> 02:45:47,298
THEMSELVES, NO, FOR THE EXACT

4841
02:45:47,298 --> 02:45:49,700
REASONS YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I

4842
02:45:49,700 --> 02:45:52,002
THINK WHEN PAIRED WITH THE HUMAN

4843
02:45:52,002 --> 02:45:54,205
MIND, THAT'S WHEN THE NOVELTY

4844
02:45:54,205 --> 02:45:55,840
AND ORIGINALITY OCCURS.

4845
02:45:55,840 --> 02:45:57,708
BUT THIS FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION

4846
02:45:57,708 --> 02:46:02,513
ABOUT WHETHER ORIGINALITY IS

4847
02:46:02,513 --> 02:46:04,081
NECESSARY TO BE GOOD RESEARCH I

4848
02:46:04,081 --> 02:46:06,350
THINK IS ALSO A PHILOSOPHICAL

4849
02:46:06,350 --> 02:46:08,753
QUESTION THAT WARRANTS

4850
02:46:08,753 --> 02:46:09,053
REFLECTION.

4851
02:46:09,053 --> 02:46:09,754
>> GREAT.

4852
02:46:09,754 --> 02:46:11,055
WELL, WE'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

4853
02:46:11,055 --> 02:46:12,156
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING

4854
02:46:12,156 --> 02:46:12,389
US.

4855
02:46:12,389 --> 02:46:14,258
SORRY IT COULDN'T BE IN PERSON.

4856
02:46:14,258 --> 02:46:14,525
[APPLAUSE]

4857
02:46:14,525 --> 02:46:16,293
>> ME TOO.

4858
02:46:16,293 --> 02:46:17,862
>> NEXT TIME.

4859
02:46:17,862 --> 02:46:19,497
WHEN WE HAVE YOU BACK TO TALK

4860
02:46:19,497 --> 02:46:20,831
ABOUT SPACE SCIENCE.

4861
02:46:20,831 --> 02:46:22,333
>> YES.

4862
02:46:22,333 --> 02:46:23,868
AND SYNTHETIC DATA IN SPACE, HOW

4863
02:46:23,868 --> 02:46:24,535
ABOUT THAT?

4864
02:46:24,535 --> 02:46:27,605
>> OH, THAT SOUNDS
AWESOME.

4865
02:46:27,605 --> 02:46:29,673
SO THANK YOU AGAIN, AND WE'LL BE

4866
02:46:29,673 --> 02:46:31,809
IN TOUCH ABOUT THIS AFTERNOON.

4867
02:46:31,809 --> 02:46:32,276
VERY GOOD.

4868
02:46:32,276 --> 02:46:34,512
GOOD.

4869
02:46:34,512 --> 02:46:36,680
AND THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO ARE

4870
02:46:36,680 --> 02:46:38,315
HERE AND YOU AOF THOSE IN THE

4871
02:46:38,315 --> 02:46:40,718
VIRTUAL AUDIENCE FOR

4872
02:46:40,718 --> 02:46:42,353
PARTICIPATING THIS YEAR.

4873
02:46:42,353 --> 02:46:44,221
IT'S BEEN A GREAT OPPORTUNITY

4874
02:46:44,221 --> 02:46:44,989
FOR ME.

4875
02:46:44,989 --> 02:46:47,424
I LEASHED A TON -- I LEARNED A

4876
02:46:47,424 --> 02:46:48,259
TON.

4877
02:46:48,259 --> 02:46:50,261
AND FIP INITIAL UP THOSE QUIZZES

4878
02:46:50,261 --> 02:46:52,269
BY THE FIFTEENTH OF NOVEMBER --
BE SENDING OUT YOUR CERTIFICATES