>> I WANT TO WELCOME EVERYONE TO
THE 21st MEET AND I SERVE AS THE
DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL FOR
THIS WORK GROUP.
WE HAVE SEVERAL NEW MEMBERS
JOINING US TODAY AND WE HAVE
SEVERAL WHO WILL BE ROTATING OFF
AND DR. NGAI WILL GIVE A FORM
INTRODUCTION AND FAREWELL TO
THOSE WHO ARE LEAVING AND THE
SUCCESS OF THE BRAIN INITIATIVE.
AS A REMINDER FOR MOST AND
INTRODUCTION FOR NEW MEMBERS,
THE MULTI-COUNCIL WORKING GROUP
IS NOT A FORMAL ADVISORY GROUP.
I DOESN'T FALL UNDER THE FEDERAL
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ACT BUT
ESTABLISHED WHEN BRAIN WAS
ESTABLISHED BECAUSE OF THE
RECOGNIZED NEED FOR WIDE RANGING
AND DIVERSE EXPERTISE IN ORDER
TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY EVALUATE
THE RESEARCH BEING SUPPORTED
UNDER BRAIN.
EACH OF THE 10 INSTITUTES AND
CENTERS HAS A REPRESENTATIVE ON
THE MULTICOUNCIL WORKING GROUP
MOST FROM THE RESPECTIVE
ADVISORY COUNCILS BUT WE ALSO
HAVE SEVERAL AT-LARGE MEMBERS TO
COMPLIMENT THE EXPERTISE OF THE
COUNCIL MEMBERS AND SEVERAL
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS WHO ARE PART
OF NIHs FEDERAL PARTNERS
INVOLVED IN THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE.
THE MULTICOUNCIL WORK GROUP HAS
SEVERAL FUNCTIONS.
THEY ONGOING OVERSIGHT OF OF THE
SCIENTIFIC VISION AND PROGRESS
OF THE BRAIN INITIATIVE.
WE ASK FOR YOUR FEEDBACK ON
CONCEPT CLEARANCES THAT ARE
EXPECTED TO LEAD TO FUNDING
ANNOUNCEMENTS AND IN CLOSED
SESSION WE WANT YOUR INPUT ON
THE FUNDING PLANS.
WHEN WE TRANSITION TO CLOSED
SESSION, I'LL GO OVER SOME OF
THE OPERATING PROCEDURES AND IT
WILL BEGIN AFTER A 45-MINUTE
BREAK WHEN THE OPEN SESSION
COMPLETES WHICH SHOULD BE AT
AROUND 2:30.
THERE'S A SEPARATE ZOOM LINK FOR
THE CLOSED SESSION THAT WILL
ONLY BE AVAILABLE TO MEMBERS OF
COUNCIL AND GOVERNMENT
EMPLOYEES.
AS A REMINDER, THE OPEN SESSION
IS BEING VIDEO RECORDED AND IT
WILL BE POSTED ON THE NIH AND
BRAIN WEBSITE.
A FEW HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS, PLEASE
MUTE YOUR LINE AND TURN OFF YOUR
VIDEO WHEN NOT SPEAKING.
THIS IS HELPFUL FOR THE
VIDEOCAST.
AND PLEASE TURN ON YOUR VIDEO
DURING THIS DISCUSSION AND USE
THE RAISED HAND OPTION IF YOU
HAVE QUESTIONS AND WE'LL CALL ON
YOU TO UNMUTE YOURSELF.
THIS CHAT WILL NOT BE VISIBLE TO
THOSE ON VIDEOCAST SO WITH THE
RAISED HAND OPTION.
I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES
WHOSE HARD WORK GOES INTO THIS
MEETING.
THEY'RE WONDERFUL COLLEAGUES TO
WORK WITH AS I'M SURE MOST OF
YOU KNOW FROM INTERACTING WITH
THEM AND UNCOMPROMISING IN THEIR
DETAILS WHICH ALLOWS THIS TO RUN
SMOOTHLY.
WE'LL BEGIN WITH DR. JOHN NGAI
AND THE CO-CHAIR OF THE WORK
GROUP DR. HANK GREELY AND
FINALLY WE'LL BE DISCUSSING A
NEW CONCEPT THAT WILL BE
PRESENTED BY DR. SHUMIN WANG.
>> THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE
AND BIG SHOUT OUT TO YOU, SUSAN
AND OTHERS FOR PUTTING THIS
MEETING TOGETHER.
WE'LL SEE IF IT WILL RUN
SMOOTHLY WE'LL SEE IF I MANAGE
TO RUN IT OFF THE RAILS IF I DO
IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT AT ALL.
I WANTED TO GIVE A BRIEF UPDATE
ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE.
CAN YOU SEE THE PROPER SLIDE?
>> YES.
>> SO JUST A BRIEF UPDATE OF THE
GOINGS ON WHEN WE LAST MET IN
AUGUST.
WE HAVE SOME MEMBERS CYCLING OFF
THIS COMMITTEE.
BEFORE I JOINED BRAIN IN MAY OF
2020 FOLKS WERE APPOINTED TO THE
WORKING GROUP WITH AN INDEFINITE
TERM AND STARTING TO SLOWLY
CYCLE PEOPLE OFF TO GIVE THEIR
LIVES BACK AND THANK YOU FOR
YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS.
CYCLING OFF THIS ROUND IS EMMERY
BROWN AND EVE MARD ARE AND JIM
DESH.
WE APPRECIATE ALL THEY'VE GIVEN
US.
WE'LL BOTH HONOR AND RESPECT
YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS MOVING
FORWARD WITH BRAIN TO MAKE IT
ALL IT'S MINUTE TO BE.
A PROFOUND DEBT OF GRATITUDE TO
ALL OF YOU.
WE'RE ALSO WELCOMING TODAY THREE
I.C. REPS.
EACH OF THE BRAIN INSTITUTE OR
CENTERS HAS A REPRESENTATIVE ON
THE BRAIN MULTICOUNCIL WORK
GROUP.
THE FIRST IS TED ABEL AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF IOWA.
TED WORKS ON MOLECULAR
MECHANISMS OF MEMORY AND THE
MOLECULAR EMPHASIS OF
PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER AND
REPRESENTING THE NATIONAL
INSTITUTE OF MENTAL HEALTH
ADVISORY COUNCIL.
WELCOME.
AND WELCOME OUR COLLEAGUE JOHN
MAUNSELL THE DIRECTOR OF THE
GROSSMAN INSTITUTE FOR
NEUROSCIENCE.
AND JOHN'S RESEARCH ARE IN
ATTENTION, VISION AND USING
OPTIGENETICS AND COMPUTATIONAL
TECHNIQUES AND REPRESENTING THE
NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR
NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS AND
STROKE.
SORRY, THE CAFFEINE IS KICKING
IN TOO FAST THIS MORNING.
AND THE THIRD REP IS DR. TIRIN
MOORE FROM STANFORD AND LOOKS AT
THE NEURO MECHANISMS OF
VISUAL-MOTOR INTEGRATION.
HE IS HOOVER REPRESENTING THE
NATIONAL EYE INSTITUTE.
WITH ALSO HAVE TWO NEW MEMBERS
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS FROM NSF.
WELCOME, MICHELLE.
AS WELL AS KATRINA GWINN
REPRESENTING OUR FEDERAL PARTNER
AT THE FOOD AND DRUG
ADMINISTRATION.
SHE IS THE ACTING CHIEF MEDICAL
OFFICER IN THE OFFICE OF CHIEF
TECHNOLOGY.
THESE ARE OUR NEW MEMBERS AND
LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH
THEM IN THE COMING YEARS.
I'LL START WITH MY IMMEDIATE
LEADERSHIP TEAM AND FOLKS WHO
WORK WITH GREAT SCIENCE GEEKZ
WHO TALK ABOUT AND IT'S WITHOUT
THESE FOLKS NOTHING HERE WOULD
BE POSSIBLE.
THEY'RE TRYING TO KEEP SCIENCE
MOVING TO HELP THEIR FOLKS IN
THE EXTRAMURAL FIELD KEEP THEIR
PROJECTS GOING WHILE MANY OF
WHOM ARE ALSO DEALING WITH
FAMILY AND OTHER ISSUES IMPOSED
BY COVID.
BIG BIG NOTE OF GRATITUDE TO THE
PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT WORK.
OUR SCIENCE IS ORGANIZED INTO
SCIENTIFIC PROJECT TEAMS.
I JUST WANT TO CALL OUT A CHANGE
IN THE NEUROETHICS TEAM NOW
CO-LED BY JAY CHURCHILL AND NINA
HSU.
WHILE WE DO MISS KARA AND ALL
THESE CONTRIBUTED HERE, WE'RE
LOOKING FORWARD TO NINA'S
ONGOING CONTRIBUTIONS SHOES
ALREADY DONE SO MUCH TO PUSH OUR
EFFORTS IN THE NEURO ETHICS
DOMAIN AND OTHER AREAS.
I WANT TO TOUCH BASE IN TERMS OF
OUR BUDGET.
THIS IS THE BUDGET OUTLOOK
STARTING IN 2014 THROUGH 2026.
SO EACH ANNUAL BUDGET IS SPLIT
INTO TWO PIECES.
IN THE RED THIS REPRESENTS THE
SO-CALLED BASE FUNDING WHICH
COMES TO US AS LINE ITEMS IN THE
ANNUAL ALLOCATION TO EACH OF THE
10 PARTICIPATING BRAIN I.C.s.
ON YELLOW, IN AM BER ARE FUNDS
FROM THE CURES ACT WHICH ENDS IN
2026.
THIS IS THE ONLY THING WITH A
HARD ENDING THE CURES ACT FUNDS.
RIGHT HERE WE'RE IN FISCAL '22.
NOTE FROM 2020 TO 2021, WE
RECEIVED FROM CONGRESS A $100
MILLION INCREASE TO OUR BASE
ALLOCATION.
THIS BROUGHT US IN 2021 TO
FUNDING LEVEL OF $560 MILLION.
NOW IN THE BRAIN 2025 REPORT THE
RECOMMENDATION WAS WE SHOULD AIM
FOR A $500 MILLION ANNUAL BUDGET
WHICH IS ABOUT WHERE WERE RIGHT
NOW.
OKAY.
ANOTHER THING TO NOTE IS IN 2023
WE GOT THIS GIGANTIC INCREASE
FROM THE CURES ACT $350 MILLION
ON TOP OF THIS BASE FUNDING SO
IN 2021, THE BASE FUNDING WAS
$460.
IF ALL GOES TO THE FUNDING LEVEL
WE'D HAVE A FUNDING LEVEL NORTH
OF $900 MILLION AND THERE'S A
BUT.
THE BUT IS RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN AN
ONGOING CONTINUING RESOLUTION
CAPS US AT THE BASE BUDGET FOR
2021.
WE HOPE THE BUDGET ISSUE WILL BE
RESOLVED SOON AND CAN GET ACCESS
TO OUR FULL FUNDING LEVEL WHICH
IS PROJECTED, EXPECTED TO BE AT
$612 MILLION WITH THE $152
MILLION ADDITIONAL FROM THE
CURES ACT FUND.
STAY TUNED.
THESE ARE ALL ESTIMATES RIGHT
NOW LOOKING TO THE FUTURE BUT I
ARGUE THE FUTURE LOOKS QUITE
BRIGHT FOR BRAIN.
SO A COUPLE ANNOUNCEMENTS.
I WANT TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO
A FEW THINGS.
SAVE THE DATE.
THE EIGHTH ANNUAL BRAIN
INITIATIVE MEETING HELD JUNE 21
THROUGH 22.
THE MEETING WEBSITE AND ABSTRACT
SUBMISSION SITE WILL BE OPEN
VERY SOON.
AND WE ARE ENCOURAGING ANYBODY
WITH AN INTEREST IN WHAT BRAIN
DOES OR COULD DO OR HOW IT MIGHT
CONTRIBUTE TO BRAIN IS
ENCOURAGED TO PARTICIPATE.
THIS IS NOT JUST FOR BRAIN
INITIATIVE FUNDING INVESTIGATORS
AND CERTAINLY NOT JUST FOR BRAIN
P.I.s.
SO A COUPLE DEADLINES NOTED HERE
IN LATE BREAKING NEWS WE SECURED
THREE KEY NOETE SPEAKERS.
WITH WILL BE MAKING A DECISION
FOR WHETHER THE MEETING WILL BE
HEADLINE IN A FULL VIRTUAL MOTOR
HYBRID MODE COMING IN MARCH.
WAY I THINK IT WILL BE A
FANTASTIC MEETING.
TWO WORKSHOPS I WANT TO DRAW
YOUR ATTENTION TO.
LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THE
SYNCHRONIZATION CONCEPT AND
MENTIONED WE'D BE HOLDING A
SERIES OF WORKSHOPS TO HAMMER
OUT THE DETAILS OF WHERE WE
SHOULD BE GOING.
DELIGHTED TO LET YOU KNOW A
DOCTOR FROM UCLA AND ANOTHER
FROM PRINCETON WILL BE
CO-CHAIRING THIS MEETING.
THANK YOU FOR THAT EFFORT.
THIS GOAL WILL BE SCIENTISTS AND
ENGINEERS ACROSS MULTIPLE
DOMAINS TO SEE WHAT WE CAN
LEVERAGE IN TERMS OF NEW
TECHNOLOGIES TO BETTER
UNDERSTAND BOTH HUMAN AS WELL AS
NON-HUMAN BEHAVIORS AND
SYNCHRONIZE THE DATA TO COME UP
WITH THE CAUSAL BASE OF
BEHAVIOR.
THIS IS IN EARLY MARCH.
THERE'S ALSO UPCOMING A WORKSHOP
TO THE BRAIN ACROSS THE LINE
SPAN.
THIS IS BEING ORGANIZED BY OUR
COLLEAGUES AT NICHD IN
COLLABORATION WITH THE BILL AND
MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION.
IT HAS A KEEN INTEREST IN THIS.
WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVES ON THAT
WORKSHOP AND PLANNING COMMITTEE
AS WELL AND WE SEEK TO IDENTIFY
THE STATE OF THE ART IN TOOLS TO
MEASURE CHANGES IN BRAIN
CELLULAR IDENTITY, CONNECTIVITY
OVER THE LIFE SPAN.
MARK YOUR COLORS -- CALENDARS
AND WE'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW THAT
GOES.
WE'VE TALKED QUITE A BIT ABOUT
ACHIEVING EXCELLENCE THROUGH
INCLUSIVITY.
WE PUBLISHED A POSITION PIECE IN
NEURON LAST OCTOBER AROUND THE
NEUROSCIENCE MEETING.
BRAIN IS COMMITTED TO INCREASING
INCLUSIVITY IN OUR WORKFORCE AND
ALL WE DO WHERE THERE ARE THREE
MAIN PILLARS TO THIS APPROACH.
THE FIRST IS TRAINING THE N
GENERATION IN SCIENTIFIC LEADERS
AND HAVE AWARDS AND OUR
DIFFERENCE TI FOCUSSED F99K00
AND K99R00 PATHWAY TO
INDEPENDENCE AWARDS FOCUSSED ON
WOMEN AND UNDER REPRESENTATIVES
GROUPS.
WE'RE ALSO FUNDING QUITE A FEW
DIVERSITY SUPPLEMENTS TO ALLOW
CURRENTLY FUNDED BRAIN
INVESTIGATORS TO BRING IN
TRAINEES AT VARIOUS LEVELS OF
EDUCATION FROM DIVERSE
BACKGROUNDS TO GET THEM
INTERESTED IN WHAT WE DO IN
BRAIN AND NEUROSCIENCE MORE
GENERALLY AND HOPEFULLY GIVE
THEM A PATH TOWARDS SECURING
INDEPENDENT FUNDING AS THEY MOF
ON IN THESE AREAS.
WE'RE ALSO INTERESTED IN
ENGAGING NEW PARTNERS AND
CAPACITY BUILDING AND HAVE A U24
TO SUPPORT CAPACITY BUILDING AT
MINORITY SERVING AND IDEA
ELIGIBLE INSTITUTION FOR
GENERATING PERFECT CISION CELL
AXIS REGION IN COLLABORATION
WITH TOOL DEVELOPERS AND EXPECT
AND HOP THEY'LL BE INVOLVED IN
THE EARLY R&D EFFORTS AS WELL.
FINALLY WE'RE COMMITTED TO
FOSTERING RESEARCH INCLUSIVE
ENVIRONMENTS.
OUR PLAN FOR ENHANCING DIVERSE
PERSPECTIVES WE TALKED ABOUT
BEFORE, HAVE BEEN ROLLED OUT
INTO NINE-CURRENT BRAIN FOAs AND
THEY'LL BE ROLLED OUT
CONTINUOUSLY AS OUR NEW FOAs ARE
ISSUED OR CURRENT ONES ARE
RE-ISSUED.
THE PDPs BEEN PICKED UP ACROSS
NIH.
THERE'S EIGHT RFAs TO MANY
COUNCIL WITH REQUIREMENTS --
SORRY, FOR US AND MORE GENERALLY
ACROSS NIH THE PDP IS PICKED UP
ACROSS 10 NON-BRAIN AREAS AND
MECHANISMS INCLUDING THE COMMON
FUND AND VARIOUS I.C.s.
THIS IS ALL WORK IN PROGRESS BUT
I THINK BRAIN HAS LAID OUT A
GOOD STRATEGY FOR INCREASING THE
DIVERSITY AND INCLUSIVITY IN OUR
WORKFORCE WITH AN EYE TOWARDS
ACHIEVING SCIENTIFIC EXCELLENCE.
SO WE'VE HAD INTERESTING
PROJECTS WITHIN BRAIN.
OUR SCHOLAR IS AN ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR AT MICHIGAN STATE AND
THE CHALLENGE IS TO HAVE A WAY
OF HOW IDEAS, THEORIES FIELD
OVER TIME AS A WAY TO PREDICT
WHERE FIELDS MAY BE GOING AND
THERE'S SUCH AN AVALANCHE OF
INFORMATION AND DATA OUT THERE,
PROBABLY NO ONE OF US COULD
FULLY GRASP WHAT'S FULLY OUT
THERE.
MOHAMED TOOK ON THE BRAIN WORKS
PROJECT WHICH IS DEVELOPED A WEB
APPLICATION USING NATURAL
LANGUAGE PROCESSING TO MINE THE
DATA IN THIS CASE THE LITERATURE
TO SEE IF WE CAN IDENTIFY
EMERGING FIELD AND INTERACTIONS
BETWEEN FIELDS FROM THE DATA.
HERE IS WHAT WE CALL THE
DIFFERENT NODE AND TOPICS AND
THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THEM AND
SOME SEEM QUITE INTUITIVE,
OTHERS WONKY AND WE CAN SEE HOW
DIFFERENT FIELDS MIGHT HAVE
EMERGED.
WE HOPE TO GET THIS WRITTEN UP
THIS YEAR AND MAKE IT GENERALLY
AVAILABLE FOR OTHERS TO HELP IN
THEIR ANALYSIS OF THE LITERATURE
AND HOW SCIENTIFIC FIELDS
EVOLVE.
STAY TUNED ON THAT.
OKAY.
AND BUILDING THE RESOURCE WE
BUILD ON BRAINS IS IMPORTANT.
OUR BRAIN INITIATIVE ALLIANCE
WEBSITE STARTED A RESOURCE WHERE
PEOPLE CAN SUBMIT SYNOPSISES AND
TOOLS THEY'RE DEVELOPING AND PUT
UP IN A RESOURCE PAGE AND
THERE'S A WEB FORM AND
NEWSLETTER AS WELL.
IF YOU HAPPEN TO GO OVER TO THE
BRAIN INITIATIVE ALLIANCE
WEBSITE YOU CAN FIND TERRIFIC
INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S
AVAILABLE THERE AND WE LOOK
FORWARD TO DEVELOPING THIS AS WE
GO ALONG IN TIME.
TOGETHER WITH OUR OTHER BRAIN
INITIATIVE PARTNERS.
WE HAVE SEVERAL NEW FUNDING
OPPORTUNITIES ON THE STREET.
I'LL GO THROUGH THESE FAIRLY
QUICKLY.
WE HAVE OUR U24 FOR TECHNOLOGY
RESEARCH DISSEMINATION AGAIN
DISSEMINATION AND THAT BEING KEY
AND A NEW NOTICE FOR
TRANSLATIONAL DEVICE.
WE'RE PARTNERING WITH THE BLUE
TOOTH MED TECH PROGRAM TO ASSIST
EARLY STAGE DEVELOPMENT OF BOTH
INVASIVE AND NON-INVASIVE
TECHNOLOGIES FOR INTERVENING AND
MODULATION IN HUMANS.
MUCH OF THE CHALLENGES PEOPLE
HAVE IN DEVELOPING NEW
TECHNOLOGIES IS GETTING THROUGH
EARLY REGULATORY HURDLES AS WELL
AS OTHER TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
HURDLES AND THE BLUEPRINT MED
TECH PRAC IS DESIGNED TO ASSIST
INVESTIGATORS THROUGH THE EARLY
STAGES.
VERY MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO
SEEING HOW TO PARTNER WITH
BLUEPRINT IN FACILITATING SOME
STUDIES.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE'LL BE
MAKING DECISIONS ON LATER THIS
SPRING AND HAVE A ROLLING
SUBMISSION PROCESS THROUGH APRIL
OF THIS YEAR.
FINALLY, I'LL TOUCH ON THIS A
BIT LATER IS OUR UPCOMING FOAs
TO SPORT THE BRAIN INITIATIVE
CONNECTIVITY ACROSS SCALES OR
BRAIN CONNECTS PROJECTS.
THESE RFAs WILL BE ISSUED IN THE
SPRING WITH DUE DATES LATER THIS
SUMMER.
OKAY.
I PUBLISHED A COMMENTARY WITH AN
OVERVIEW OF THE SO-CALLED BRAIN
2.0 TRANSFORMATIVE PROJECTS.
THESE ARE PROJECTS THAT WERE
CONCEIVED WITH THE URGING AND IN
COURAGEMENT OF THE BRAIN 2.0 TO
FIND AN STAND UP LARGE PROJECTS
THAT COULD POTENTIALLY TRANSFORM
THE WAY WE CONDUCT RESEARCH AND
APPLY IT TO THE TREATMENT OF
HUMAN BRAIN AND FOCUSSING ON
HUMANS.
THE WHOLE BRAIN MICROCONNECTIST
PROJECT AND THE PROJECT TO
DEVELOP TOOLS FOR PRECISION
ACCESS.
IF YOU READ THROUGH THE
COMMENTARY THE POINT I HOPE WE
MADE WAS A, THE IMPACT THE
PROJECTS MAY HAVE ON
NEUROSCIENCE RESEARCH AND THE
WAY THESE PROJECTS MUTUALLY
SUPPORT EACH OTHER FOR PROJECTS
TO REVOLUTIONIZE THE STUDY OF
THE ANNIVERSARY SYSTEM IN
PARTICULAR.
I SHOWED SOME INVESTIGATION OF
THIS SLIDE IN THE LAST COUPLE
MEETING.
I'LL GIVE A QUICK EVERY VIEW AND
GET TO WHERE WE ARE WITH SOME
BRIEF UPDATES.
THE BRAIN INITIATIVE CELL ATLAS
NETWORK AND WE RECEIVE THE
APPLICATION FOR THIS PROJECT.
THEY'RE BEING REVIEWED THIS
SPRING.
WE'LL BE COMING BACK TO YOU
LATER THIS YEAR.
THE FIRST ROUND HAS BEEN FUNDED
AND THERE'S A CAPACITY RFA FOR
WHAT WE ALREADY RECEIVED THE
FIRST ROUND AND THE CONNECTIVITY
ANALYSIS AND WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT
THE FOAs.
THESE ARE THE THREE PROJECTS IN
FISCAL YEAR AP 21 OF WHAT WE
RECEIVED IN THE BASE FUNDING $60
MILLION WERE SO-CALLED
CONGRESSIONALLY DIRECTED FUNDS
TO ACCELERATE THE PROJECTS.
THESE WERE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE
CELL ATLAS PROJECT AND
ARMAMENTARIAN PROJECT AND LAST
YEAR WE FUNDED APPROXIMATELY $40
MILLION ACROSS 10 AWARDS.
TWO PROJECTS THAT WERE FOCUSSED
ON DEVELOPING SCALABLE TOOLS FOR
STUDYING BIG BRAINS.
THESE WERE FROM ONGOING RFAs WE
HAD BEFORE AND I THINK THIS WILL
HELP US GET A HEAD START ON
DEVELOPING A WHOLE HUMAN BRAIN
CELL ATLAS AND THEN WE APPLIED
$16 MILLION OF THESE FUNDS TO
OUR PROJECTS IN THE AREA OF
PRECISION CELL ATLAS ACCESS,
THREE OF THE FOUR OF THESE WERE
ACTUALLY FROM THE RFA I JUST
DESCRIBED AND WE'RE EXCITE
EXCITED ABOUT WHERE THE PROJECTS
ARE GOING.
MANY THANKS TO OUR FRIENDS ON
THE HILL FOR GIVING US THE EXTRA
FUNDS TO GOT THE PROJECTS
STARTED SOONER RATHER THAN
LATER.
I WANT TO GIVE YOU TWO
HIGHLIGHTS WITH REGARDS TO THE
PROJECTS AND END WITH A BRIEF
UPDATE ON WHERE WE ARE WITH THE
CONNECTIVITY PROJECT.
SO LAST FALL WAS A GOOD ONE FOR
US.
THE BRAIN INITIATIVE CELL CENSUS
NETWORK PUBLISHED ED ED A TRANCHE OF
17 ARTICLES AND 10 ARTICLES IN
SISTER JOURNALS AND THEY SET
THIS STAGE FOR THE COLLABORATION
THAT WILL BE NECESSARY TO STAND
UP A WHOLE HUMAN BRAIN CELL
ATLAS.
I'VE SHOWN MANY OF THIS TO YOU
BEFORE BUT I'LL REPEAT AGAIN
BRIEFLY, WHAT WE'VE DONE HERE IS
CREATED A MULTI-MODAL ANALYSIS
THAT INTEGRATE THE
CHARACTERISTICS ACROSS MULTIPLE
MODALITIES INCLUDING MOLECULAR,
INFORMATION, SPATIAL
DISTRIBUTION, MORPHOLOGY,
PHYSIOLOGY AND CONNECTIVITY AND
AN EFFORT AND HELPED IDENTIFY
PRINCIPLES OF DIVERSIFICATION OF
BRAIN CELL TYPE AND SEE
DIFFERENCES AND SETS THE STAGE
FOR THE BRAIN CELL AND IN TERMS
OF ORGANIZATION IT SHOWS IN THE
RIGHT PLACE AND THE RIGHT TIME,
THE POWER OF TEAM SCIENCE THERE
WERE OVER 250 RESEARCHERS ON
THIS PROJECT FROM OVER 45
INSTITUTIONS AND THREE
CONTINENTS.
THIS IS A FIRST FOR NEUROSCIENCE
RESEARCH.
IT WAS A GREAT TEAM TO WORK
WITH.
I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING A
P.I. ON THE PROJECT ON MY FORM
ARE LIFE AND LOOKING FORWARD TO
SEE WHAT THE NEW GROUP CAN DO
MOVING FORWARD ON THE PROJECT.
IN TERMS OF GAINING PRECISION
ACCESS TO CELL TYPES, THERE'S
BEEN A LOT OF PROGRESS GOING ON
IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT FIELD.
IN PARTICULAR IN THE ENGINEERING
OF ADENO VIRUSES AND HERE'S DAT
FROM A RECENT PAPER FROM KAL --
CAL TECH AND THEY USED
DISTRICTED EVOLUTION TO IDENTIFY
CAPSID MUTANT OR VARIANTS WITH
VARIOUS PROPISMS FOR THE BRAIN
AND A -- TROPISMS AVOIDING THE
LIVER AND FOUND MULTIPLE CELL
TYPES IN THE BRAIN AND
IMPORTANTLY AVOIDING THE LIVER
YOU CAN SEE THIS HERE THIS
AVOIDANCE TO THE LIVER HERE AND
IMPORTANTLY THE WORK IS NOT ONLY
IN MICE BUT MARMOSETS AND WE'RE
GETTING CLOSE TO REGIONS THAT
ONE DAY COULD BE KEY FOR DRIVING
GENE THERAPY APPROACHES IN THE
HUMAN BRAIN.
SO STAY TUNED.
I THINK THIS IS A VERY EXCITING
AREA AND OTHERS WORKING IN THIS
AREA ARE WORKING TOWARDS SIMILAR
GOALS AS WELL.
LET ME CLOSE WITH A BRIEF
SUMMARY OF THE BRAIN
CONNECTIVITY PROJECT.
BASED ON THE WORKSHOP WE HELD
LAST YEAR IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR
THE TASK WILL BE DAUNTING.
I THINK THE UPSHOT WAS IT COULD
BE FEASIBLE OR SHOULD BE
FEASIBLE TO DO IN A MOUSE BRAIN
AND PROBABLY FEASIBLE TO DO AT
THE AX ON LEVEL IN A HUMAN BRAIN
AND WE DON'T YET HAVE THE
TECHNOLOGY TO DO THAT IN A
TIMELY WAY.
WE DECIDED TO SPLIT THIS EFFORT
INTO TWO PHASES OVER THE NEXT 10
YEARS AND THE GOALS FOR PHASE 1,
THE FIRST FIVE YEARS IS TO
ASSESS AND DEVELOP DIFFERENT
APPROACHES THAT COULD WORK IF WE
WERE TO SCALE THEM UP.
AND ALONG THE WAY TO LEARN
BIOLOGY ABOUT THAT.
IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT WE'LL BE
EXPECTING OF FOLKS THAT WE FUND
IS TO DEVELOP NEW TECHNIQUES BUT
TO HAVE SOME GOOD USE CASES SO
WE CAN LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT
RELEVANT NEURO CIRCUITS WHILE WE
DEVELOP THE TECHNOLOGIES.
AND THEN WE'LL EVALUATE
STRATEGIC CHOICES FOR WHICH
TECHNOLOGIES TO STAND UP IF ALL
GOES WELL TO DEVELOP A PLAN FOR
IMPLEMENTATION FOR THE SCALE UP
PHASE WHICH IS PHASE 2.
WE'RE ANTICIPATING A MIX OF
DIFFERENT KINDS OF FUNDING
OPPORTUNITY ANNOUNCEMENTS AND
THEY'RE SUMMARIZED HERE.
WE'LL STAND UP COMPREHENSIVE
CENTERS THAT WILL BE AIMED AT
CAPACITY BUILDING, TECHNOLOGY
AND DEVELOPMENT AND
DEMONSTRATION, DATA INTEGRATION,
NEW KNOWLEDGE, IN OTHER WORDS,
WE WANT TO LEARN TECHNIQUES AND
THESE WILL BE FOCUSSED IN THE
BIG BRAINS OR MOUSE BRAINS AT
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF RESOLUTION.
WE ALSO EXPECT TO FUND SMALLER
PROJECTS AIMED AT DEVELOPING
PERHAPS LESS WELL DEVELOPED
TECHNOLOGIES THAT COULD ENHANCE
THE EFFORT OVERALL AND BE
INCORPORATED AND LOOKING AT LESS
DEVELOPMENT AND POTENTIALLY RISK
RISKIER TECHNIQUES WITH AN
UPSTATE AND AN EFFORT FOR DATA
COORDINATION AND EXPECT AN
INTEGRATION ACROSS ALL THE
GROUPS.
WE WERE USING THE BICCN AS A
MODEL FOR HOW TO SET UP AND
COORDINATE EFFORTS ACROSS THE
BOARD IN WHAT I EXPECT TO BE A
HIGHLY COLLABORATIVE EFFORT TO
ATTACK THIS VERY SIGNIFICANT AND
DEEP PROBLEM.
SO WITH THAT -- I DON'T KNOW IF
WE HAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS,
SUSAN.
I'LL STOP HERE.
>> WE HAVE FOUR MINUTES AND WE
CAN ALWAYS GO OVER BECAUSE WE
HAVE A LONG BREAK IN BETWEEN
OPEN AND CLOSED.
ANY
>> YOU HIGHLIGHT THE IMAGE ON
THE BRAIN INVESTIGATORS' EFFORTS
IN PUTTING THIS DIAGRAM
TOGETHER.
HAS HE BEEN ABLE TO USE THIS FOR
NEUROSCIENCE IN GENERAL AND
SCREENING GENERAL NEUROSCIENCE
AND NEURONAL AND ALL THAT?
IS IT DIFFERENT FOR THE BRAIN
INVESTIGATOR?
>> GREAT QUESTION.
I BELIEVE MOHAMMAD PULLED INTO
HIS DATABASE OVER 100 MILLION
FROM PUB MED.
ONE CAN LOOK AT THE LITERATURE
AND LOOK TO SEE HOW FIELDS
DEVELOP AND WHERE THE EDGES
DEVELOP.
YOU CAN SAY TO YOURSELF, WE DID
IT AS KIND OF A TEST AND LOOK AT
CERTAIN FIELD AND CERTAIN
DISCOVERIES SPARK A NEW AREA OF
INVESTIGATION AND YOU CAN SEE
THO
THOSE NODES AND EDGES DEVELOP
OVER TIME AND WE THINK THIS IS A
GREAT TOOL FOR LOOKING AT HOW
RESEARCH AREAS HAVE DEVELOPED
ACROSS THE BIOMEDICAL
LITERATURE.
NOW, THE ORIGINAL GOAL -- AND I
THINK IT'S STILL AN ASPIRATIONAL
GOAL, COULD WE BUILD A TOOL THAT
WOULD ALLOW US TO PREDICT WHERE
FIELDS ARE GOING.
CAN WE USE THIS COMPUTER
INTELLIGENCE TO HELP US THERE?
SO FAR NOT WHY THE BUT WE SAW IT
WAS A GOOD IDEA TO LOOK
RETROSPECTIVELY FOR HOW FIELDS
DEVELOPED AND PER YOUR LAST
QUESTION, ONE THING WE'D LIKE TO
KNOW IS WHETHER AND HOW BRAIN IS
MAKING A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
OTHER 95% OF NIH-FUNDED
NEUROSCIENCE RESEARCH SO WE CAN
ASK CERTAIN QUESTIONS.
ARE WE SEEING GREATER CONNECTS
BETWEEN FIELD LOOKING AT
BRAIN-FUNDED RESEARCH VERSUS
OTHER.
THAT'S A VERY QUICK EXAMPLE.
THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS WE
WANT TO LOOK AT TO ASSESS WHAT
OUR IMPACT IS TO MAKE
ADJUSTMENTS TO PUSH HARDER IN
AREAS THAT ARE WORKING AND AREAS
THAT MAY BE LACKING.
>> THANK YOU, JOHN.
LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING IT.
>> TED.
>> HI.
I'M JUST JOINING THE GROUP.
THANKS.
I HAVE -- FIRSTLY, I WANT TO
SAY, JOHN, THANK YOU AND THIS
GROUP AND SUSAN FOR PUSHING THE
ENVELOPE FOR ALL OF US.
IN OUR RESEARCH AREAS.
THE REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF
DIVERSITY AND THE EXPANSION YOU
ALL HAVE DRIVEN HAS IMPACTED
EVERYONE AT NIH AND ACROSS ALL
INSTITUTIONS AND IT'S BEEN GREAT
TO SEE HOW NIMBLE YOU CAN BE AND
HAVING A GREAT IMPACT.
I'VE BEEN STRUCK BY SOME OF MY
COLLEAGUES WORKING ON
CONNECTIONS TO METABOLISM --
EVEN CONNECTIONS TO CANCER OF
NEURAL CONNECTIONS TO CANCER.
STRUCK BY THE WORKSHOP AND
REVIEW PAPER ON THE NEUROSCIENCE
OF INTEROCEPTION.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BUT THE
NERVOUS SYSTEM IS MORE THAN THE
BRAIN AND I THINK SOME OF THE
PERIPHERAL AREAS CAN IMPACT THE
WELL BEING OF SOME PATIENTS AND
MAY EVEN BE THERAPEUTIC WITH
SOME CANCERS.
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE
PERIPHERAL SYSTEM AND SEEMS LIKE
THERE'S IMPACT WE CAN MAKE IN
THE PERIPHERY SO I WONDER ABOUT
THAT.
>> CLEARLY THE CENTRAL
INFORMATION SYSTEM IS
INTERACTING AND THERE'S QUITE A
BIT GOING ON IN THE GUT-BRAIN
AXIS AS WELL.
SO WE ARE VERY KEEN TO EXPLORE
THESE CONNECTIONS BOTH
FIGURATIVELY AND LITERALLY
SPEAKING.
I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO IS COME
AT IT FROM A CNS PERSPECTIVE AND
MEET THE OTHER STUDIES SOMEWHERE
ALONG THE WAY.
SO WE DO HAVE PROGRAMS FOR
EXAMPLE THE SPARK PROGRAM
FOCUSSED ON THE PERIPHERAL
SYSTEM AND THE NCCIH THE INTERO
INFORMATION SYSTEM AND WE CAN
FIND A WAY TO PARTNER AND
PROMOTE COLLABORATIONS AND
PROJECT LOOK AT THE NERVOUS
SYSTEM MORE HOLISTICALLY BUT
FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.
LOOK, THE MOTOR NEURON THE
REASON TO EXIST IS TO MOVE
MUSCLES AND TO SAY WE'RE NOT
INTERESTED IN MUSCLES IS A
LITTLE BIT SILLY TO MAXIMIZE THE
POSSIBILITIES.
>> THANKS, JOHN.
>> MAYBE WE CAN MOVE ON TO HANK
ON UPDATES AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU
WANT TO INFORM US ABOUT.
>> WELCOME TO THE NEW MEMBERS OF
NEWG AND RETURNING MEMBERS.
I THINK YOU'LL HEAR SOMETHING
YOU HEARD BEFORE.
SOME BACKGROUND ON THE
NEUROETHICS WORKING GROUP FONDLY
KNOWN AS THE NEWG FOR THE NEW
MEMBERS.
THE NEWG GOES BACK IN ONE FORM
OR ANOTHER TO 2016.
IT STARTED AFTER THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE.
WE HAVE ABOUT 10 MEMBERS,
NEUROSCIENTISTS AND A COLLECTION
OF PEOPLE I SAY ABOUT 10 BECAUSE
JOHN IS IMPLEMENTING TERMS AND
TERM LIMITS.
PEOPLE ARE ROTATING ON AND OFF
AND I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT COUNT
TODAY.
FOUR ARE MEMBERS OF THE MCWG AND
ARE HERE TODAY AND WEARING TWO
HATS.
I WANT TO MENTION DR. TARA RAMOS
WHO WAS THERE FROM THE BEGINNING
AND COMMITMENT AND DEEP INTEREST
IN NEURO ETHICS AND LEFT US NOT
BECAUSE SHE WAS ROTATED OFF BUT
TO TAKE A NEW POSITION WITH THE
DATA FOUNDATION PURSUING
INTEREST IN NEURO ETHICS AND WAS
CRUCIAL TO THE FORMATION OF THE
NEWG.
WE GENERALLY MEET TWICE A YEAR.
USUALLY THE DAY BEFORE THE MCWG
MEETINGS IN JANUARY AND AUGUST
AND WE PROVIDE INPUT BUT NEVER
ADVICE TO THE BRAIN INITIATIVE
SOMETIMES THROUGH THE MEETINGS
AND SOMETIMES THROUGH THE
MEETINGS AND PAY PLAN AND THE
CON -- CONCEPTS AND PORTFOLIO
ANALYSIS OF THE ENTIRE
APPROXIMATE LOOKING FOR GRANTS
THAT MAY HAVE NEUROETHICS
ISSUES.
WE PUBLISHED AT LEAST FOUR
PUBLICATIONS HAVE COME OUT BASED
ON NEWG ACTIVITIES.
WE HELD SOME WORKSHOPS IN THE
PAST.
WE HAVE TWO PLANNED FOR LATER
THIS YEAR.
ONE ON POST-TRIAL
RESPONSIBILITIES WHICH HAS BEEN
A MAJOR ISSUE OF DISCUSSION
THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THE
NEWG AND THE OTHER ON DATA
SHARING WHICH HAS ALSO BEEN
MAJOR WITH THE CHANGES IN THE
NIH DATA SHARING POLICIES IS
BECOMING EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.
SO WE'LL BE DOING THOSE LATER
THIS YEAR AND IT'S NOT CERTAIN
BUT IT IS MY EXPECT THERE'LL
PROBABLY BE PUBLICATIONS COMING
OUT OF THAT.
YESTERDAY'S MEETING WAS OF
COURSE BY ZOOM.
THE MAIN PART OF IT WAS A
DISCUSSION OF ETHICAL CHALLENGES
AND IMPLANTED NEURAL DEVICE
RESEARCH WITH HUMAN
PARTICIPANTS.
THIS IS MODERATE MY CO-CHAIR
FROM NIH AND FEATURED A COUPLE
PRESENTATIONS.
ONE FROM ASHLEY FINESINGER FROM
UCLA AND ONE FROM THE UNIVERSITY
OF WASHINGTON.
ASHLEY'S WAS A PRESENTATION AND
DISCUSSION AND PAPER CALLED
INVESTIGATOR PERSPECTIVES ON
ETHICAL COMMITMENTS, PRINCIPLES
AND PRACTICES GUIDING
INTRACRANIAL RESEARCH IN HUMANS.
LONG TITLE.
IT'S NOW I THINK OUT OF EMBARGO
AND PUBLISHED IN NEURON AND HAD
A NICE GENESIS.
THE BRAIN INITIATIVE P.I.s
WORKING IN THAT AREA GOT
TOGETHER AS A RESEARCH ON HUMANS
GROUP AND DECIDED TO START
TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES
THEMSELVES.
THERE WERE SOME INTERACTION WITH
THE NEWG AND THIS PAPER CAME OUT
AND PUT S OUT WHAT INVESTIGATORS
SEE AS THE ETHICAL ISSUES WHICH
WAS A REALLY INTERESTED MODEL
GROUND UP FROM THE INVESTIGATORS
COMING FORWARD DISCUSSION OF
ETHICS AND I THINK THE NEWG WILL
PROBABLY BE INTERESTED IN
THINKING MORE ABOUT AS A WAY OF
GOING FORWARD IN THE FUTURE.
SARAH GERRING WORKED WITH
IMPLANTS TALKING ETHICAL
CONSIDERATIONS FOR ETHICAL
CONSIDERATIONS FOR LONG-TERM
STUDIES AND LEADING TO A
DISCUSSION WITH ASHLEY AND SARAH
AND WITH JAMES JOHNSON WHO IS A
BCI BRAIN-COMPUTER INTERFACE
RESEARCH PARTICIPANT.
WAS A STUNNINGLY POWERFUL
PARTICIPANT IN THE PANEL AS
SOMEONE WHO HAS THE IMPLANT AND
LIVING THROUGH THE RESEARCH.
AND COMING OUT OF THAT, ONE OF
THE THINGS WE NOW HAVE TO DO IS
THE NEWG LEADERSHIP HAS TO
FIGURE OUT WHERE TO GO FROM HERE
BUT THINK THE ISSUES OF
LONG-TERM HIGHLY INTERACTIVE
STUDIES, INVASIVE STUDIES,
FIGURING OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE
UNIVERSE OF RELEVANT ISSUE
STUDIES IS A BIT OF A TRICKY
QUESTION BUT WE THINK THERE'S
MORE ETHICAL DISCUSSIONS TO BE
HAD AND MORE POTENTIALLY
GUIDANCE OR INSIGHTS TO BE
SHARED.
THEN WE TALKED ABOUT IN A PART
MODERATE ME WE TALKED ABOUT THE
NEWG'S PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
AND WHERE WE MIGHT BE HEADED.
SO THAT IN APPROXIMATELY SIX
MINUTES IS THE NEWG AND I'M GLAD
TO SEE SUSAN SMILE AT ME KEEPING
US ON TIME AND I'M HAPPY TO TRY
TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.
I'M ALSO HAPPY TO ANSWER NO
QUESTION.
I'M REALLY GOOD AT ANSWERING NO
QUESTIONS.
>> ANY QUESTIONS?
>> IN THE ABSENCE OF QUESTIONS
I'LL SAY ONE MORE THING.
PARTICIPATING IN THE NEWG HAS AT
LEAST FOR ME AND I THINK ALL MY
FELLOW MEMBERS, BEEN A REALLY
FASCINATING OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK
AT THE TRULY INTERESTING ETHICS
ISSUES RAISED BY NEUROSCIENCE
AND I THINK I DON'T HAVE TO TELL
NEUROSCIENTISTS AND WHAT HUGE
ETHICAL ISSUES IT RAISES.
I'M REALLY PLEASED THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE HAS TAKEN THE
NEUROETHICS ISSUES SERIOUSLY AND
I KNOW JOHN AND I HAD REGULAR
LENGTHY DISCUSSIONS SOMETIMES WE
STICK STRICTLY TO BUSINESS AND
SOMETIME WE GO OFF ON BROADER
QUESTIONS OF NEUROETHICS.
I APPLAUD THE BRAIN INITIATIVE
AND NCWG FOR TAKING THESE
SERIOUSLY AND THEY'RE INFINITELY
FASCINATING TO GET A CHANCE TO
PLAY WITH AND I SEE A HAND.
I WAS GOING POSE YOU ASK A
QUESTION TO THE GROUP WHICH
ASKED YESTERDAY WHICH IS NAMELY
TO GET INPUT ON WHERE YOU THINK
THE ISSUES NEWG SHOULD BE
DEALING WITH WE SHOULD BE THINK
AND HELPING NEWG PLAN.
WE HAVE THE REPORT FROM THE
ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO THE
DIRECTOR ON NEUROETHICS AND
BRAIN.
THAT'S A GUIDANCE THAT'S OUT
THERE PIPPEN -- THERE.
I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A LOOK
AT AND GET INPUT TO PRIORITIZE
WHAT THE NEWG SHOULD BE TALKING
ABOUT.
>> IF I CAN ADD TO THAT, SILLY
FOR THE NEW MEMBERS JOINING US
HERE BUT ALSO AS A REMINDER FOR
ALL OF US WHO HAVE WORKED ON
THIS OVER THE LAST YEAR.
A LOT OF WHAT WE GOT DONE IN
BRAIN WE SAW THE ROLLOUT OF THE
PLAN FOR ENHANCED PERSPECTIVES
AND SAW THE ROLLOUT OF THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE CELL ATLAS NETWORK
AND FOR BOTH OF THESE LARGE
EFFORTS, WE HAD TO DIG DOWN DEEP
AND THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT
WHO IS DOING THE EXPERIMENTING
AND WHO IS DOING THE DECIDING
AND THEREFORE WHO IS GOING TO BE
BENEFIT FROM THE RICHES THAT WE
INTEND TO CREATE HERE.
AND THESE REALLY CAME OUT OF
DISCUSSIONS NOT JUST AT MCWG AND
NEWG BUT JOINT DISCUSSIONS.
I REALLY THINK IT SPEAKS TO THE
POWER OF COLLABORATION OF
BRINGING DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES TO
BEAR ON EXAMINING AND THEN
FINDING A WAY TO ADDRESS KEY
ISSUES OF OUR TIME.
CLEARLY WE HAVE A WORKFORCE AND
DIVERSITY ISSUE AND I THINK
BRAIN IS LEADING A WAY TO A
BETTER PLACE ON THIS.
IN TERMS OF THE CELL CENSUS
PROJECT WE THOUGHT WHO IS IT WE
NEED TO STUDY TO GET THE BEST
INFORMATION OUT IN ORDER TO A,
UNDERSTOOD HOW THE HUMAN BRAIN
IS PUT TOGETHER AND TREAT AS
MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE AND HAD
WE NOT HAD AN INTENSE DISCUSSION
ABOUT EQUITY AND INCLUSION, I'M
NOT SURE WE WOULD HAVE COME TO
THIS PLACE WE CAME TO.
ALL LOOKING FORWARD TO A WORK IN
PROGRESS BUT SPEAKS TO THE
INCREDIBLE POWER OF POWER OF
COLLABORATION AND LAST YEAR WE
HAD A JOINT SESSION BETWEEN THE
TWO GROUPS AND NOT TO OVER
BURDEN EVERYONE HERE BUT AS
WALTER ASKED, WE'D LIKE YOUR
INPUT ON AREAS YOU FEEL WE
SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO
BEYOND THE SPECIFIC EXPERIMENTS
THAT WE'RE FUNDING.
>> THIS YEAR MARKS, I THINK,
MANY PEOPLE IN THE FIELD THINK
THE 20th ANNIVERSARY FROM A
NEURO ETHICS MEETING AND HASN'T
BEEN JUST A TOY FOR PHILOSOPHERS
AND LAWYERS AND IT'S HAD BUY IN
AND PARTICIPATION FROM NEURO
SCIENTISTS AND CLINICIANS AND WE
SEE IT ON THE CURRENT NEWG AND
EVER IN THE MCWG IS ALMOST BY
DEFINITION QUALIFIED TO OFFER
USING THOUGHTS, NOT ADVICE, BUT
USEFUL THOUGHTS AND INPUTS ON
THE NEURO ETHICS ISSUES AND IT'S
CRUCIAL TO GO FORWARD THERE BE A
CONTINUING DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE
SCIENTISTS, CLINICIANS AND
ETHICS PEOPLE AND PARTICIPANTS
ALL GOING TO STRONGLY SECONDING
WALTER'S SUGGESTION AND WOULD
LOVE TO HEAR THOUGHTS ON WHAT
THE NEWG SHOULD BE DOING.
SUSAN, I THINK THERE'S 30
SECONDS LEFT.
>> WE HAVE A BREAK SCHEDULED NOW
BEFORE THE CONCEPT TO FEEL FREE
TO CONTINUE TO THINK ABOUT THIS
AND PROVIDE INPUT TO JOHN AND TO
HANK AND I THINK THERE'LL BE
OPPORTUNITIES TO HEAR YOU FROM
AND WE THINK WE WILL.
OKAY, THEN, I WILL -- NOT SEEING
HANDS I'LL CALL THE BREAK AND
WE'LL BE BACK AT 1:00 FOR THE
CONCEPT PRESENTATION BY DR. SHUM
SHUMIN WANG ON NON-INVASIST
BRAIN FUNCTIONING IMAGING
TECHNOLOGIES.
THANK YOU BOTH.
MY NAME IS SHUMIN WANG PROGRAM
DIRECTOR AT THE NATIONAL
INSTITUTE OF BIOENGINEERING AND
I'M GOING PRESENT NON-INVASIVE
BRAIN FUNCTIONAL IMAGING
TECHNOLOGY CONCEPT.
BECAUSE IT'S IMPLEMENTATION
MANAGED BY IBIB I HAVE ALSO
PRESENTED A WEEK AGO AT A
COUNCIL MEETING AND RECEIVED A
HIGHLY VALUABLE COMMENTS.
SO I'M GOING PRESENT THE CONCEPT
HERE AGAIN TODAY AND BRING UP
THOSE COMMENTS DURING MY
PRESENTATION AND THEN WELCOME
DISCUSSION ON THOSE POINTS.
FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO GIVE A
BIG SHOUT OUT TO OUR TASK FORCE
MEMBERS WHO COME FROM DIFFERENT
PARTICIPATING I.C.s OF THE
INITIATIVE.
WE HAVE MULTIPLE MEETINGS AND
PRESENTED THIS CONCEPT AT
DIFFERENT LEVELS WITHIN NIH.
THIS IS TRULY A TEAM WORK.
SO THIS CONCEPT IS SUPPOSED TO
MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE
FOLLOWING THREE PRIORITY AREAS
IN THE BRAIN 2025 REPORT.
AREA TWO MATCH WORKFORCE SKILLS
FOR DIAGRAMS INTRODUCE FROM
SYNAPSIS TO THE WHOLE BRAIN.
FOR IMAGING WE ARE PRIMARY
INTERESTED IN MICROSCOPY
RESOLUTION AND MESO SCALE DOWN
TO 100 MICRONS AND HOPEFULLY
DURING THE SECOND PHASE OF OUR
INITIATIVE WE CAN MAKE A SPATIAL
SKILL AND THE BRAIN ACTION STO
PRODUCE THE DYNAMIC PICTURE OF
THE FUNCTIONING BRAIN BY
DEVELOPING AND APPLYING METHOD
FOR LARGE-SCALE MONITORING OF
NEURAL ACTIVITY AND TALKING
ABOUT DYNAMIC RANGE SPANS THREE
OTHER MAGNITUDES TO HUMAN
DYNAMICS AND ALL THE WAY TO A
TENTHS OF A SECOND FOR MOLECULAR
IMAGING SO THE THREE OTHER FOR
THE RANGE IS ALSO HUGE.
FINALLY THE PRIORITY AREA NUMBER
6 IS THE HUMAN NEUROSCIENCE TO
DEVELOP METHODOLOGIES FOR
HEALTHY HUMAN SUBJECT.
IN 2019 THE BRAIN INITIATIVE
ORGANIZED A WORKING GROUP 2.0 TO
EVALUATE THE FIRST PHASE OF OUR
INITIATIVE AND ALSO MADE SOME
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE NEXT
PHASE.
HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES RELATED
TO NON-INVASIVE IMAGING.
THE NUMBER 3 IN PRIORITY AREA 2
IS TO DEVELOP HIGH RESOLUTION
FMRI WITH THE RESOLUTION AND
CONSIDERED CURRENTLY THE BEST AS
WE SPEAK.
THE RESOLUTION OF FMR IS 0.01
CUBIC MILLIMETER SO IT
REPRESENTS ORDER OF MAGNITUDE
WITH IMPROVEMENT WHICH IS HUGE.
SHORT TERM GOAL NUMBER 4 IN AREA
3 IS TO DEVELOP TOOLS FOR
REALISTIC BEHAVIOR AND THINKING
OF PEOPLE WALKING ON THE STREET
OR TALKING TO EACH OTHER.
CONVENTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES SUCH
AS MRI OR PET ARE DESIGNED FOR
IMAGING STATIONARY SUBSET OF
PATIENTS.
WE THOUGHT IT IT'S IMAGINABLE TO
SOMEONE WALKING FREELY MOVING
FREELY AND AS YOU CAN SEE THE
CHALLENGE IS HUGE.
THE QUESTION IS CAN WE ACTUALLY
ACHIEVE THOSE GOALS.
THIS CONCEPT HAS SOME PRECEDING
ONES.
WE HAVE RO1 PROOF OF CONCEPT RFA
AND ALSO A U1 DURING THE FIRST
PHASE OF THE BRAIN INITIATIVE.
IN ORDER TO EVALUATE WHERE WE
ARE NOW AND WHERE WE CAN GO IN
10 YEARS WE HAD A WORKSHOP AND
THE FIRST WAS A DISSEMINATION
WORKSHOP IN FEBRUARY FOCUSSING
ON EVALUATING THE SUCCESS AND
INVESTMENT THE BRAIN INITIATIVE
MADE TO NON-INVASIVE
TECHNOLOGIES DURING THE FIRST
PHASE.
THE SECOND IS A TRANSFORMATIVE
WORKSHOP WHICH FOCUSES ON
POSSIBLE NEW TECHNOLOGIES THAT
COULD BE DEVELOPED IN THE NEXT
FIVE TO 10 YEARS AND SOLICITED
PUBLIC INPUT BASED ON THE
OUTCOMES OF THE TWO WORK SHOPS
AND RFI HERE.
FIRST OF ALL, ACCOMPANYING NEW
MODALITIES TO BROADEN THE
APPLICABILITY AND THIS IS
CURRENTLY BEING INVOLVED BY A
RESEARCH GROUP WOULD ENABLE
TAKING CORTICO HUMAN DYNAMICS
INFORMATION FROM SUBJECT MOVING
FREELY IN A LAB OR ON THE STREET
OR TALKING TO ANOTHER PERSON.
SO THIS CAPABILITY CANNOT EXIST
PRIOR TO THE BRAIN INITIATIVE.
FOR EXISTING MODALITIES SUCH AS
MEG, PET AND F MRI WE ASSIST THE
TECHNOLOGY AS YOU CAN SEE FROM
THE LOWER LEFT CORNER THIS IS A
HIGH RADIO FREQUENCY RECEIVER TO
ENABLE THE PRECISION OF 400
MICRON LEVEL SO IMPROVEMENT IS
POSSIBLE IN THE NEXT YEAR OR
TWO.
SO MOST THE PROJECTS MOVES TO
THIS YEAR AND WE DO EXPECT TO
DELIVER PRODUCT.
SO BECAUSE OF THIS MUCH IMPROVED
SENSITIVITY, WE COULD GET MUCH
BETTER RESOLUTION DOWN TO THE
MESO SCALE LEVEL BY USING THESE
DEVICES WHICH WOULD NOT BE DONE
PRIOR TO THE BRAIN INITIATIVE.
DESPITE THE ACHIEVEMENT WE'RE
NOT NEAR THE END OF THE ROPE.
WE HAVE OPPORTUNITIES THAT EXIST
AND LIST ON THE NEXT SLIDE.
HERE'S ALTERNATIVES WE
SUMMARIZED I WANT TO EMPHASIZE
THE TOP TWO.
THE FIRST ONE IS KNOX
INTEGRATIVE SYSTEM TO ASSESS
MULTIPLE SCALES TALKING ABOUT
MESO SCALE TO MACRO SKILL.
AND THE ASPECT OF BRAIN
FUNCTIONAL CONNECTIVITY SO USING
INDIVIDUAL MODALITIES WITH
DYNAMICS AND MOLECULAR IMAGING
HAS SEEN IMPROVEMENT AND THE
INTEGRATED SYSTEM CAN PROVIDE A
COMPLETE AND COMPLIMENTARY
PICTURE OF ACTIVITIES STILL
LACKING.
WE RECOGNIZE THIS IS A GREAT
OPPORTUNITY ESPECIALLY FOR
DEVELOPMENT AND GONE TO A
SPECIAL EMPHASIS.
THE SECOND BULLET IS ON MACHINE
LEARNING AND THE TECHNIQUES.
BOTH ARE COMPLETION BASED.
THIS IS SORT OF INDEPENDENT FROM
HARDWARE DEVELOPMENT.
SO WE HAVE A GREAT EXAMPLES IN
THE PORTFOLIO THAT DEMONSTRATE
SUCH MEASURES CAN IMPROVE THE
PERFORMANCE OF VERY COSTLY
EFFECTIVE MANNER.
FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE AWARDEE
DEVELOPED THE DATA-DRIVEN
TECHNOLOGY AND APPLIED IT TO
PROCESS HUMAN CONNECTOME PROJECT
DATA.
AND HE WAS ABLE TO IMPROVE
SPATIAL RESOLUTION FOR DIFFUSION
IMAGING FROM 1.5 METER CUBIC TO
0.375 METER CUBIC REPRESENTING
THE SENSITIVITY IMPROVEMENT
WITHOUT RE-WRITING THE ENTIRE
EXPERIMENT.
WE BELIEVE BY EMPHASIZING THIS
COMPETITION-BASED TECHNOLOGY
THIS COST-EFFECTIVENESS COULD
PROPAGATE VERY SOON TO OTHER
AREAS OF NON-INVASIVE IMAGING
AND MAKE A BIGGER IMPACT TO THE
COMMUNITY.
SO ENCOURAGED BY THE NEW
OPPORTUNITIES WE PROPOSED THE
CONCEPT.
THE CONCEPT IS THREEFOLD.
FIRST IS TO CONTINUE THE
MOMENTUM WITH THE INTEGRATIVE
APPROACH FOR BRIDGING THE GAP
BETWEEN MULTIPLE SKILLS AND
ASPECTS.
THIS IS CORRESPONDING TO THE
FIRST BULLET IN THE PREVIOUS
SLIDE.
THE SECOND IS TO GUIDE FURTHER
DEVELOPMENT BY EMPHASIZING
TECHNOLOGIES SUGGESTED AT A
WORKSHOP INSTEAD OF LETTING
INVESTIGATORS IN THE FIELD.
THE FIRST IS TO ENCOURAGE OUT OF
THE BOX THINKING.
WE DO BELIEVE THE TECHNOLOGIES
CANNOT BE CONCEIVED BY
CONVENTIONAL WISDOM MAY MAKE A
HUGE IMPACT IN THE FIELD.
HOWEVER, WE REALLY DON'T KNOW
WHAT THE TECHNOLOGIES ARE AS A
RESULT WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE SUCH
THINK.
THAT IS OUR GOAL.
WHAT IS OUR STRATEGY TO ACHIEVE
THAT?
WE BELIEVE IT'S A PHASED AWARD
MECHANISM IS THE BEST TO PROMOTE
INNOVATION WHILE REDUCING THE
RISK.
BECAUSE SOME OF THE TECHNOLOGY
OCCURRED HERE OF HIGH RISK.
WE DO NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE
FEASIBILITY BEFORE THE CONCEPT
CANNOT BE FOR HUMAN IMAGING
WITHOUT RISKING TOO MUCH MONEY
ON THAT.
THIS IS THE GENERAL STRATEGY.
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW WE CAN
IMPLEMENT IT.
I SHOULD MENTION WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT CONCEPT HERE AND CAN HAVE
DIFFERENT APPROACHES.
I THINK WE THINK THIS IS A GOOD
EXAMPLE.
DOESN'T MEAN THIS IS THE ONLY
EXAMPLE.
SO DURING THE PHASE 1, WE WILL
ALLOW UP TO THREE YEARS OF THE
BUDGET TO LET THE INVESTIGATOR
PROVE THE FEASIBILITY OF NEW
CONCEPT.
HERE'S THE TECHNOLOGY
FEASIBILITY WHETHER YOU CAN VIEW
IT OR NOT AND ALSO IS THE
PROJECT FEASIBILITY.
THAT MEANS YOU WANT TO BUILD IT
WITHIN THE GIVEN TIME FRAME AND
WHAT IS THE SCOPE OF THE
PROJECT.
AFTER FIGURING OUT THE
FEASIBILITY OF THE TECHNOLOGY OR
PROJECT, THE PROJECT CAN GO TO
THE SECOND PHASE WHICH GIVEN
MORE TIME AND BUDGET TO FULLY
DEVELOP THE FUNCTIONAL PROTOTYPE
WITH FIRST IN HUMAN IMAGING
RESULT AND THIS IS WHERE WE
RECEIVED SOME COMMENTS.
SOME MEMBERS SUGGEST GIVEN THE
FIVE YEAR GRANT SO FOR TRULY
INNOVATIVE IDEA FOR OUT OF THE
BOX THINKERS IS PROBABLY TOO
SHORT TO DEVELOP THE CONCEPT ALL
THE WAY TO FIRST IN HUMAN
IMAGING.
WE THINK THIS IS POSSIBLE
DEPENDING ON THE NATURE OF THE
TECHNOLOGY AND THE STARTING
POINT, FOR INSTANCE, FOR SOME
AGENTS MAY TAKE FIVE OR 10 YEARS
TO DEVELOP A CONCEPT FOR A FIRST
IN HUMAN SUBJECT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, WE SHOULD
KEEP A SIGNIFICANT CONCEPT IN
MIND IF YOU ALLOW INVESTIGATOR
TO STOP SHORT OF HUMAN IMAGING
PROBABLY WOULD HURT THE
SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROJECT.
SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE IS
PROBABLY
PROBABLY IS BETTER AND WE
WELCOME INPUT IN THE DISCUSSION
SESSION.
SO THE TASK FORCE ALSO
CHALLENGED OURSELVES WITH THE
QUESTION, CAN WE DO IT BETTER?
LOOKING AROUND THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE THERE'S MANY EXAMPLES
OF TEAM-BASED SCIENCE.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE CELLS CONSORTIUM AND
THE BRAIN INITIATIVE CELL CENSUS
NETWORK THE BICCN WHICH JOHN HAS
PRESENTED A MOMENT AGO.
THIS CONSORTIUM COORDINATED
PROJECTS AND THERE WAS A
PUBLISHING OF PAPERS IN THE
PRIMARY MOTOR CORTEX ACROSS
DIFFERENT SPECIES INTO 14
CATEGORIES AND MORE THAN 100
TYPES.
SO LOOKING BACK INTO OUR
NON-INVASIVE TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT, THIS KIND OF
TEAM-BASED SCIENCE IS REALLY
LACKING ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT
TO ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPMENT OF
A HIGHLY-INTERGREAT GRATED SYSTEM AND
WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE THE
CROSS-TALK BETWEEN DIFFERENT
DEVELOPERS.
AS A RESULT WE THINK A
CONSORTIUM WILL BE MUCH NEEDED
IN THE NEXT PHASE OF THE BRAIN
INITIATIVE JUST COMPROMISED OF
STIMULATION OF THE RESEARCH
IDEAS AND WE WOULD ORGANIZE
MULTIPLE ANNUAL MEETINGS ON
TOPICS OF BRAIN IMAGING, ASK AN
INVESTIGATOR TO PRESENT THEIR
PROJECT PROGRESS AND FUND THE
NEURO TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT TO
PARTICIPATE.
WE ALSO PLAN TO FORM AN AD HOC
SUBGROUP ON ISSUES OF CONCERNS
ACROSS THE CONSORTIUM AS TWO
WORK SHOPS AND A BIG CONCERN IS
THE PRACTICE AND STANDARDIZE THE
DATA FORMAT TO ALLOW OTHER
GROUPS TO ANALYZE THE DATA
ACQUIRED BY SOME AWARDEES.
THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND THE
FUNCTIONAL MR COMMUNITY TO
IMPROVE THE EFFECT SIZE OF SOME
STUDIES AND THIS KIND OF
CROSS-SITE ISSUES WILL BE
DISCUSSED BY THE AD HOC GROUPS
AND WE THINK BY USING THIS MAXIM
WE CAT GET BETTER INNOVATIVE
TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT AND WE'RE
PUTTING IT TO THE FUNDING
OPPORTUNITY ANNOUNCEMENT AND
NOTICE OF WARD.
AS A RESULT THE INVESTIGATORS
FUNDED BY THE CONCEPT WILL BE
REQUIRED TO PARTICIPATE THIS
CONSORTIUM.
NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
THAT'S IT.
I HOPE THIS GIVES YOU A PICTURE
OF THIS CONCEPT AND I'LL OPEN
THE FLOOR FOR FURTHER COMMENTS,
DISCUSSION.
>> THANK YOU, SHUMIN.
WE TYPICALLY IS OUR MEMBERS TO
DO A MORE IN DEP -- DEPTH LOOK
AT THE CONCEPT AND START THE
DISCUSSION.
BRUCE.
>> STARTING OUT WITH WHAT MAY
NOT BE A GREAT SURPRISE OVERALL
I'M VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THIS
IDEA.
LOTS OF CLEAR THOUGHT HAS GONE
INTO THE GROUP.
I THINK SHUMIN AND HIS TEAM'S
ARTICULATION OF WHEN THE
PROGRESS MADE IS ON THE MARK BUT
MOST IMPORTANT HIS CONCLUSION
THERE'S SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONAL
PROGRESS TO BE MADE I THINK IS
LIES SUPPORTED BY WHERE WE ARE
AND AREAS FLOATING IN THE
COMMUNITY.
SOME OF THE THEMES I THOUGHT
WERE STRONG AND MIGHT EVEN BE
HIGHLIGHTED WHEN AN ULTIMATE RFA
MIGHT APPEAR, THE PUSH FROM
MACRO SCALE TO MESO SCALE IS
CERTAINLY ONE THAT SHUMIN HAS
ALLUDED TO.
I THINK WE'RE REALLY ON THE
THRESHOLD NOW OF USING SOME OF
OUR TOOLS AND CERTAINLY MR TODAY
AND PROGRAMS IN THE FUTURE
INTEGRATION OF OPTICS AND
ACOUSTICS, FOR EXAMPLE, TO BE
ABLE TO MEASURE BRAIN ACTIVITY
AT DIFFERENT LEVELS AND ONE
THESE THINGS WHERE EVEN
RELATIVELY MODEST IMPROVEMENTS
IN THE TECHNOLOGY CAN TAKE US TO
THE POINT WHERE WE CAN RELIABLY
DO THESE EXPERIMENTS ACROSS THE
ENTIRE BRAIN WHICH I THINK WILL
MAKE A PROFOUND IMPACT BECAUSE
WE REALLY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT
HUMAN BRAIN MESO SCALE
ARCHITECTURE AND FUNCTION AND
YET I THINK WE'RE GAINING ON THE
ABILITY TO DO THAT.
IN A SIMILAR VEIN, THE TEMPORAL
RESOLUTION TO USE THE TECHNIQUES
ESPECIALLY THOSE MAYBE BASED ON
HUMAN DYNAMICS IS FOR BEHAVIOR
IN THE DELTA RANGE AND SLOW
WAVES.
IF WE CAN CONTINUE TO PUSH
THROUGH ON THE SENSITIVITY
ISSUES SHUMIN LAID OUT, I THINK
THAT SHOULD ALLOW US TO LOOK AT
WHOLE BRAIN INTEGRATION OF
BEHAVIORS AT SOME FREQUENCIES
AND THEN WITH THE INTEGRATION OF
TECHNOLOGIES THE
ELECTROPHYSIOLOGICAL TOOLS
CERTAINLY PUSH TO A BROAD RANGE
OF COHERENT FREQUENCIES WE CAN
LOOK AT WHICH HIGHLIGHTS ANOTHER
ELEMENT SHUMIN REINFORCED HERE
WHICH IS THE NOTION OF
ENCOURAGING THE INTEGRATION OF
TECHNOLOGIES.
CERTAINLY THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF
PROGRESS IN THE PAST AND THINGS
LIKE INTEGRATING MR AND PET BUT
I THINK THE INTEGRATION OF
OPTICS AND ACOUSTICS WE'VE SEEN
GOOD PROGRESS BUT MORE TO BE
DONE PUSHING THAT IN THE HUMAN
REALM AND ACOUSTICS AND HUMAN
PHYSIOLOGY AND WE'VE SEEN THE
BEGINNINGS OF ACTIVITY BUT THESE
DOMAINS ARE REALLY ONES THAT ARE
RIPE FOR CREATIVE INPUT AND
SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS TO PUSH
THEM THROUGH AND HOLD GREAT
PROMISE AT LEAST IN STUDYING THE
CORTEX TO BE ABLE TO ROUTINE GET
US TO SENSITIVITY AND SPATIAL
AND TEMPORAL RESOLUTIONS AT THE
MESO SCALE WE'RE LOOKING AT.
I THINK ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY THAT
WAS KIND OF ALLUDED TO AND
SOMETHING WE CAN CONSIDER BEING
MORE EXPLICIT ABOUT IS THE
NEURAL CHEMICAL SIDE OF THINGS
AND SHUMIN POINTED OUT THE
INVESTMENT IN PET TECHNOLOGY
REALLY OFFER ONE OF THESE ORDER
OF MAGNITUDE IN IMPROVEMENT IN
SENSITIVITY AND MAYBE WITH A.I.
TOOLS MAYBE EVEN MORE THAN THAT.
SOME SAY UPWARDS OF A FACTOR OF
100 IN SENSITIVITY.
THAT'S A BIG DEAL.
THAT THEN ALLOWS YOU TO IMAGINE,
FOR EXAMPLE, STUDYING CHILDREN
WITH NUCLEAR TECHNIQUES WHICH
YOU WOULDN'T OTHERWISE CONSIDER
UNDER CURRENT DOSE REGIMES BUT
WHEN THEY'RE NO GREATER THAN
WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM A
MODERN AIRLINE FLIGHT NOW THE
IRB MAY LOOK UPON THOSE
DIFFERENTLY.
AND I THINK THERE'S
OPPORTUNITIES NATIONALLY TO NET
EFFORTS IN DEVELOP THE
NEUROCHEMICAL ARMAMENTARIAN WORK
AND NOT SURE HOW IT WOULD FIT
WITH THE RFA THERE BUT MAYBE
THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES TO
ENCOURAGE LINKAGE BETWEEN THE
NEURAL CHEMICAL OPPORTUNITIES
AND ALL THE GREAT WORK HAPPENING
IN THE CELL CENSUS I THINK IS A
GREAT OPPORTUNITY.
ONE OF THE CHALLENGES I THINK
WE'LL HAVE AS A FIELD, AND WE
SAW THIS FROM THE VERY FIRST
ROUND, I REMEMBER THE FIRST RFAs
WHICH WERE PRETTY EXPLICIT IN
LOOKING FOR OUT OF THE BOX
IDEAS.
IN FACT THERE WAS EVEN LANGUAGE
WRITTEN IN IT SHOULDN'T BE
CONVENTIONAL THINGS BUT WE HAVE
RETURN ON INVESTMENT IN BIG
MAGNETS.
THAT'S WHAT THE STUDY SECTION
WENT FOR.
SO I THINK ONE OF THE REAL
CHALLENGES WE HAVE IN THIS IS
OUT OF THE BOX THINKING IS NOT
LIES ACCOMMODATED BY A
CONVENTIONAL STUDY SECTION
DYNAMICS.
SO THAT'S A CHALLENGE I KNOW YOU
FOLKS UNDERSTAND BUT ESPECIALLY
IMPORTANT WHEN YOU REALLY WANT
TO PUSH IDEAS THAT DON'T HAVE A
LOT OF PRELIMINARY DATA AND
PEOPLE AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH BUT
ALMOST BY DEFINITION THERE'S NOT
GOING TO BE A ROOM OF PEOPLE WHO
UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY AND
DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE IF IT WERE
IT WOULDN'T BE OUT OF THE BOX
ANYMORE.
HOW TO GET THOSE IDEAS THROUGH
STUDY SECTIONS WILL HAVE TO
DEPEND ON HOW THE RFA'S WRITTEN
AND SOMETHING TO THE DEGREE OF
HOW WE ORGANIZE THOSE GROUPS.
THE CONSORTIUM IS A GREAT IDEA.
ONE THING I MIGHT ADD TO THAT
AND THE NIH TALKS ABOUT DATA
SHARING AS ROUTINE.
I THINK THIS IS A DOMAIN WHERE
CONCERTED EFFORTS AROUND
INCLUDING EXPLICIT PLANS AROUND
DATA SHARING AND RESOURCES THAT
PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THEY
HAVE TO RESOURCE DATA SHARING.
THEY CAN'T JUST SAY THEY'RE
GOING SHARE IT.
IT TAKES EFFORT AND MONEY TO
MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
I WOULD AT LEAST ENCOURAGE THAT
TO BE SOMETHING EXPLICIT
EVALUATION CRITERIA AND MAKE IT
CLEAR WE EXPECT THAT IT DOESN'T
COME FOR FREE.
THEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE ISSUE
OF TIMING AND A LOVE THE
TWO-PHASED MECHANISM.
IT MAKES SENSE BUT THE NOTION
YOU WOULD WANT TO GET TO FIRST
IN HUMAN USE IS GREAT BUT OF
COURSE DOING THAT IN FIVE YEARS
IS CHALLENGING AND IF GETTING TO
HUMANS IN FIVE YEARS IS A REVIEW
CRITERIA, THAT MAY DISCOURAGE
SOME OF THE OUT OF THE BOX THINK
YOU'D LIKE WHERE THOSE TIME
FRAMES ARE LIKELY TO BE LONGER
AND REVIEWERS MIGHT
REALISTICALLY UNDERSTAND AND HOW
TO BALANCE THOSE I LIKE THE FAZE
PHASED APPROACH TO REJECT AREAS
THAT AREN'T MAKE PROGRESS BUT TO
MAKE SURE PROGRESS DON'T GET
KILLED BECAUSE REVIEWERS
PERCEIVE THE NEED TO GET IT INTO
HUMANS IN THAT FIVE-YEAR TIME
FRAME I FIND THAT AS TOO GREAT A
HURDLE.
WE WOULDN'T WANT TO REJECT THOSE
IDEAS.
I KNOW WE WOULDN'T WANT TO
REJECT THE IDEAS AND SOMETHING I
ENCOURAGE TO THINK ABOUT MORE
AND PLENTY OF GREAT STUFF HERE
AND LOTS OF GREAT OPPORTUNITIES
TO BEGIN TO CONNECT WHAT WE'RE
DOING FROM THE TOP DOWN TO WHAT
OF COURSE IS HAPPENING AT THE
CELL CENSUS AND
ELECTROPHYSIOLOGICAL LEVEL FROM
THE BOTTOM UP.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, BRUCE, FOR
YOUR SUPPORT AND GREAT COMMENTS.
AS TO THE FIRST IN HUMAN TEST,
IT'S TRULY ASPIRATIONAL IN A
SENSE.
ALSO BECAUSE IT GOES TO SUPPORT
HUMAN NEUROSCIENCE.
IT'S SORT OF DIFFICULT FOR US TO
GO LOWER AND ON THE OTHER SIDE I
CONSIDER YOUR COMMENTS
ESPECIALLY WHETHER THE OUT OF
THE BOX THINKERS CAN MAKE IT TO
HUMAN IN FIVE YEARS.
WE LOOK AT OUR PORTFOLIO AND
THERE'S CHANGE TO LARGE ANIMALS
IN FIVE YEARS AND DO NEED A
TARGET OTHERWISE WE CAN PROPOSE
SOMETHING WITH NO END RESULT.
>> I WONDER IF THE TARGET WOULD
BE RATHER THAN HAVING THE
PROTOTYPE WORK IN HUMANS,
BASICALLY EITHER THAT FOR HAVING
DETAILED MODELLING AND
PRELIMINARY DATA TO GO TO THE
BRAIN AND GEOMETRY OF SKULL
THICKNESS FOR HUMANS AND A WAY
TO SHOW IT'S HUMAN CAPABLE EVEN
IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE ALL THE
ENGINEERING TO GET TO THAT POINT
BECAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU, IT
SHOULD BE DEVOTED TO WHAT IT
TAKES TO IMAGE THE BRAINS OF
HUMANS.
THAT MAY BE ANOTHER WAY TO
PHRASE THINGS EITHER
DEMONSTRATION OR CLEAR
DEMONSTRATION BASED ON MODELLING
AND DATA AND LARGE ANIMALS IT
WILL BE FEASIBLE TO MOVE TO
HUMANS.
THAT MAY BE ANOTHER WAY TO CUT
IT.
AND THAT SHOULD BE DOABLE IN
FIVE YEARS, I AGREE.
>> BRUCE, THAT'S A GREAT POINT.
WHAT WE WANT IS A CLEAR PATH NOT
JUST A PROMISE.
THANK YOU.
SUSAN, SHOULD WE MOVE TO THE
NEXT DISCUSSANTS AND THEN CIRCLE
BACK FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION?
THANK YOU, BRUCE.
>> SURE.
BRUCE, YOU SAID SO MUCH AND I'LL
TRY TO HIGHLIGHT IT.
IT WAS FANTASTIC.
I'M HUGELY SUPPORTIVE BECAUSE IT
WILL BE A HUGE IMPACT IN CIRCUIT
DIAGRAMS AND ACTIVITY IN THE
DYNAMIC RANGE AND TO THINK ABOUT
SPATIAL AND TEMPORAL
CONSIDERATIONS AS WE SCALE UP TO
HUMAN TO THINK ABOUT CIRCUITS OF
BEHAVIOR AND ALSO CIRCUIT
DISORDERS IS OF PROFOUND
IMPORTANCE AND AT THE POINT WE
SHOULD ASPIRE TO DO THAT WITH
OTHER AREAS GETTING ATTENTION IN
THE BRAIN AND USING A USE CASE
IS IMPORTANT WHY NOT GAIN
SOMETHING ABOUT A BEHAVIOR OR
EVEN A DISORDER.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE THINK
HARD ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD
CHARACTERIZE AS AN IMPORTANT USE
CASE AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS
DEVELOPMENT, THIS SPECTRUM IS
WHERE THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING.
AND MANY DISORDERS COULD VERY BE
VERY ADAPTABLE TO A KNOWN LESION
IN A CONNECTION PATHWAY THAT
COULD MAKE IT VERY GOOD PROOF OF
PRINCIPLE FOR YOU.
I ALSO GIVEN I'M REPRESENTING
NICHD AS WELL AND ACROSS THE
LIFE SPAN, I THINK WE HAVE TO
CONSIDER HOW WE'RE GOING THINK
ABOUT DEVELOPING BRAIN VERSUS
AGE BRAIN.
THERE'S ANOTHER DYNAMIC RANGE
THERE IN THE SAME BRAIN AND WHAT
DOES HOW ARE WE GOING THINK
ABOUT THAT MAYBE AT THE ANIMAL
LEVEL BUT STILL AS WE SCALE TO
THE HUMAN, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO
CONSIDER IN A DEGENERATING BRAIN
VERSUS A DEVELOPING BRAIN WHERE
FROM ONE WEEK TO THE NEXT IT'S
QUITE DIFFERENT.
SO TO REMEMBER THAT.
I THINK THAT I WANTED TO PICK UP
ON SOMETHING SAID EARLIER WHERE
TED ABEL WAS TALKING ABOUT BEING
BRAIN/NERVOUS SYSTEM CENTRIC.
AS WE THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX CAN
WE THINK CONNECTING THE ENTERIC
NERVOUS SYSTEM AND THE TERRIFIC
RAL SYSTEM AND I THINK WE'RE
READY TO DO IT AT SOME LEVEL
MAYBE NOT IN THE HUMAN BUT MAYBE
IN SOME EXPERIMENTAL MAN MODELS.
THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING
PIECE TO CONSIDER.
I THINK FOR TAKING IT TO THE
NEXT LEVEL, INTO THE PHASE 1-2
ADMINISTRATIONS I AGREE
CONSORTIUM ARE KEY.
WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT U
MECHANISMS OUTSIDE THE R01 AND
THINK OF GO/NO-GO EXAMPLES LIKE
THE SHARK TANK APPROACH USED BY
THE IMAGE INSTITUTE AND
ANTICIPATING HOW WOULD YOU MAKE
THOSE CHOICES AND HOW WOULD YOU
SET THAT UP SO IT'S JUSTIFIED.
DON'T FORGET TO EXPLICITLY THINK
OF HOW WE'LL REACH OUT TO THE
NON-NEURAL SCIENTISTS THE
ENGINEERS AND THE A.I. AND HOW
TO BUILD THAT BECAUSE OF COURSE
IT'S GOING TO BE KEY.
THE OTHER THING IS I THINK THE
PHASE 2,IT'S HARD TO SAY FIVE
YEARS.
I THINK THAT MAY NEED TO BE
QUALIFIED OR REMOVED AT THIS
POINT BECAUSE IT COULD CONSTRAIN
PEOPLE TO THINK SMALL BECAUSE
THEY HAVE TO GET SOME PLACE IN
FIVE YEARS AND IF YOU'RE TRYING
TO GO BIG AND GO OUTSIDE THE BOX
YOU MIGHT NOT.
THEN FINALLY, I THOUGHT THAT YOU
MIGHT WANT TO ALSO THINK ABOUT
HOW WE'LL USE NEURO ETHICS TEAM
HAVING HEARD FROM DR. GREELY
EARLIER.
THIS IS KEY BECAUSE YOU MAY BE
UNCOVERING SOME -- AS YOU MOVE
INTO THE HUMANS YOU MAY HAVE
THINGS THAT TO BE SHARED OR
MANAGED LIKE WE CAN ALL THESE
OTHER KINDS OF EXPERIMENTAL
PARADIGMS.
SO I THINK I'LL STOP THERE.
THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS TO ADD TO
THE AMAZING SUMMARY THAT BRUCE
GAVE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, FRANCES.
>> TODD, DID WANT TO COMMENT AND
THEN WE CAN HAVE A MORE GENERAL
DISCUSSION?
>> SURE, BRUCE AND FRANCES BOTH
SAID MANY OF THE COMMENTS I
WOULD GOING TO SAY SO THANK YOU
FOR DOING ALL THAT WORK.
I'LL JUST ECHO A FEW OF THE ONES
I REALLY THINK ARE CRITICAL.
THE NEUROETHICS ONE TO FINISH
WHERE FRANCES LEFT OFF TO ME IS
SOMETHING THAT DID AND FROM
HANK'S SUMMARY OF THE NEWG, THIS
IS PARTICULARLY A PLACE WHEN
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW
NONINVASIVE HUMANS AND THE NEURO
ETHICS ISSUES AND WHO WITH
BENEFIT AND YOU CAN IMAGINE
BUILDING IN SOMETHING LIKE THE
PARALLEL TO THE PDP WHERE YOU'RE
GOING TO HAVE A COMPONENT WHERE
YOU SAY, LIKE WHAT ARE THE
ETHICAL ISSUES THE NEURAL ETHICS
ISSUES YOU CAN ANTICIPATE.
HAVE YOU TALKED TO CONSULTANTS
ON THIS AND IT SEEMS LIKE IN
THIS TYPE OF DESIGN AND OF
PROGRAM THAT CAN BE SOMETHING
THAT MAY BE PARTICULARLY
IMPORTANT.
IN TERMS OF WHERE THE
TECHNOLOGIES ARE GOING,
OBVIOUSLY THESE ARE GOING TO BE
CRITICAL.
I DO SUPPORT AND THIS IS A
FANTASTIC IDEA AND I'M VERY
SUPPORTIVE OF IT.
THE NEURAL CHEMICAL, I WANT TO
ECHO BRUCE'S IDEA AND FRANCES,
THINKING ABOUT CONNECTIONS
BETWEEN BRAIN AND OTHER BODILY
SYSTEMS ARE GOING TO BE REALLY
IMPORTANT COMING FROM NCCIH AND
ONE OF THE THINGS EMPHASIZED IS
THE WHOLE PERSON APPROACHES.
SO THINKING ABOUT KANG WE THINK
OF THE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN
THINGS LIKE THE BRAIN AND
HORMONAL SYSTEM AND THINK ABOUT
THE MUSCLES.
ARE THERE GOING TO BE SUPPORT
FOR TECHNOLOGY ENCOURAGING THOSE
KINDS OF TECHNOLOGIES AND THAT
MAY BE AT A VERY EARLY STAGE AND
THINKING BEYOND THE CNS SEEMS
LIKE AN IMPORTANT DIRECTION.
A QUESTION I HAD I WOULD LIKE TO
HEAR MORE ABOUT, IT SEEMED THERE
WAYS SLIGHT DISCONNECT BETWEEN
THE TECHNOLOGY AND METHODOLOGY
FOCUSSED APPROACHES FROM THE
ONES THAT ARE MORE ANALYTIC OR
SOFTWARE THAT MACHINE LEARNING
AND A.I. IN TERMS OF THAT IF YOU
HAD A PROJECT HOW IT WILL BE
PRIMARILY ON THAT DIRECTION WILL
NOT FIT IN WITH THIS PHASED
APPROACH AS WELL BECAUSE THE
USED CASE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE USING
MACHINE LEARNING ARE MODEL BASED
AND NEED NETWORKS TO IMPROVE
RESOLUTION FROM AS A SECONDARY
DATA ANALYSIS OF HUP.
IS THAT GOING TO FIT INTO THIS
AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
ENCOURAGE OR WILL THAT BE A
PIECE OR TECHNOLOGY AND SOFTWARE
ANALYTICS PART THAT WILL BE
INTEGRATED OR CAN PEOPLE HAVE
PROJECTS THEY ARE PROPOSING THAT
WILL BE FULLY NON-HARDWARE TYPES
OF PROJECT AND HOW WILL THAT FIT
IN WITH THIS AGREEMENT?
THAT'S SOMETHING I WAS THINKING
ABOUT AND WANT TO ECHO THE IDEA
OF THINKING CAREFULLY ABOUT
THESE GO/NO-GO MILESTONES AND
BEING CREATIVE ABOUT THAT I
THINK IT WILL BE IMPORTANT
BECAUSE HOW YOU GET FROM THE
DECISION OF THE PHASE 1 TO PHASE
2 AND THE CRITERIA USED IN
MAKING THE CLEAR TO THE
INVESTIGATORS IS ALSO USEFUL.
FINALLY, THESE TEAMS.
I LOVE THIS IDEA OF THE
CONSORTIUM.
ECHOING AGAIN, THE IDEA OF
PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT THE CASE
OF THESE AND HOW THEY MET ON THE
TEAM THAT YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT
WHAT ARE THESE TECHNOLOGIES
GEARED FOR IN TERMS OF THE KEY
NEUROSCIENCE THEORETICAL
QUESTIONS THEY'LL BE AIMED AT I
THINK WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT AS
WELL AND TO HAVE THAT CONSORTIUM
TO FACILITATE.
JUST WANT TO ECHO THIS IS GREAT
AND SUPPORTIVE OF IT AND THANK
YOU FOR BRINGING IT TO US.
I'LL STOP THERE.
>> THANK YOU, SO MUCH, TODD FOR
YOUR COMMENTS.
>> WE HAD A COMMENT IN THE CHAT.
WOULD YOU MIND IN MUTING
YOURSELF AND ASKING OR MAKING
THE SUGGESTION SO VIDEOCAST
PEOPLE CAN HEAR IT AS WELL?
>> YEAH, THE THOUGHT WAS A LOT
OF TIMES DWOE REQUEST OR TRY TO
GET INTO HUMAN WITHIN FIVE YEARS
OF A PROGRAM AND IT IS
AGGRESSIVE WITHOUT QUESTION BUT
SOMETIMES FIT LOOKS LIKE AS WE
GET -- IF IT LOOKS AS WE GET IN
THE PROGRAM TWO OR THREE YEARS
IN IT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE, WE
THEN TRY TO ASK, CAN WE AT LEAST
GET INTO THE FDA WITH THE
PRE-SUB SO WE HAVE A LOT OF THE
SAFETY AND EFFICACIES STUDIES
DONE AND MAYBE NOT IN HUMAN YET
BUT A HUGE STEP FORWARD RATHER
THAN JUST DOING ANIMAL STUDIES
AND THE GRANT ENDS WITHOUT
HAVING GOT TO THE FDA AT ALL.
AND WHAT WE LEARNED IS HELPFUL
IS INFORMATIONAL MEETINGS WITH
THE FDA BEFORE PRE-SUBS BUT A
TIME FOR THE P.I. TO DISCUSS
WHAT THE PROGRAM IS AND THE TYPE
OF TECHNOLOGIES TO BE DEVELOPED.
SOME OF THAT STUFF THE FDA MAY
NOT HAVE HEARD OF OR BE READY
FOR YET SO HAVING AN EARLY
INDICATOR AS TO WHERE THE
RESEARCH MAY GO UNDER THE GRANT
CAN BE REALLY HELPFUL.
I WANTED TO SHARE THAT AND HAS
WORKED ALL WET ON THE DARPA
SIDE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> TED, DOW DID YOU HAVE A
COMMENT OR QUESTION?
>> YES, HI.
THIS IS VERY INTERESTING.
I WANTED TO ECHO THE COMMENTS ON
NEURO CHEMISTRY AND DEVELOPMENT.
THEY'RE BOTH IMPORTANT ISSUES TO
HIGHLIGHT AND SOMETHING THAT'S
NOT JUST FROM NINDS BUT DIRECTOR
AND NEURO CHEMICALLY IT'S
INTERESTING HOW MUCH PHYTO
PHOTOMETRY HAVE INFLUENCED AND I
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.
I ALSO WANTED TO COMMENT ON THE
FIVE-YEAR DELIVERY THINGS.
OTHER ORGANIZATIONS DO THIS
QUITE DIFFERENTLY WHERE DARPA,
FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD START WITH A
GROUP OF INVESTIGATORS AT THE
BEGINNING AND MAYBE END WITH
ONLY ONE OR TWO OF THEM NOT ALL
SIX OR SEVEN.
NIH DOESN'T EXACTLY WANT TO DO
THAT BUT THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY MORE
FOCUSSED ON OUTCOME AND YOU GET
KICKED OFF THE ISLAND IF YOU'RE
NOT DOING THE THING.
THERE'S MORE AGGRESSIVE WAYS TO
MAKE A DELIVERY HERE IF THAT'S
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
LASTLY, I WANT TO MAKE A GENERAL
POINT I MADE WITH THE ORIGINAL
CONNECTOME PROJECT DECADE AGO OR
15 YEARS AGO AND THAT IS A
FUNDAMENTAL HALLMARK OF THE
INFORMATION SYSTEM IS IT'S
PLASTICITY.
IT WILL DRIVE OUR ABILITY TO
RESPOND TO EXPERIENCE AND
REMEMBER EXPERIENCE AND WHAT
DRIVES A LOT OF DISEASE AND
COMPENSATION BECAUSE OF THAT
PLASTICITY CAN HELP PEOPLE
FUNCTION BUT CAN ALSO MAKE THEM
WORSE OR WORSE IN DIFFERENT
WAYS.
SO I JUST WANT TO UNDER SCORE
HOW MUCH PLASTICITY IS INVOLVED
IN THESE THINGS.
IT'S ONE THING TO KNOW HOW THESE
THINGS ARE CONNECTED BUT IF WE
GO TO SLEEP AND WAKE UP AGAIN,
THEY'LL CHANGE.
AND I REMEMBER COMMENTING ON A
MICROSCALE AT HARVARD WHERE THEY
WERE COUNTING SYNAPSES WITH
EVERY BIOLOGY MAJOR WAS COUNTING
SYNAPSES IN THE MOUSE CORTEX AND
IF THE MOUSE FELL ASLEEP OR
CHANGED IT WOULD HAVE CHANGED
AND THINKING ABOUT PLASTICITY IS
AN IMPORTANT CONCEPT AND WE MAY
KNOW HOW IT CHANGES AND THAT IS
VERY IMPORTANT.
TO ME WE LOSE TRACK OF THAT
PLASTICITY AND DO IN THE GENETIC
BASIS OF BRAIN DISORDERS BECAUSE
WE DON'T THINK HOW THAT'S READ
OUT, WE THINK OF WHAT IT IS.
THAT'S A SOAPBOX OF MINE I
THOUGHT I WOULD JUMP ON.
I HOPE THAT'S OKAY.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR
COMMENTS, TED.
>> FRANCES.
>> THE ISSUE OF PLASTICITY I
REMEMBER I CAME OUT WHEN JOHN
AND I HAD OUR ONE-ON-ONE CALL.
THERE'S NO OTHER ORGAN SYSTEM
WHERE THE CELLS ARE CHANGING BY
THE MICROSECOND.
WHAT IS AN INTERESTING THING TO
CAPTURE, WHICH I DIDN'T MENTION
THIS, TRYING TO MAP AT WHAT
LEVEL AT CONNECTIVITY MAP IS
THERE A HIGH DEGREE OF CHANGE IN
THE MILLISECOND VERSUS YEARS OR
NONE.
AND GETTING A SENSE OF THAT
RANGE IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE
DIFFERENT BETWEEN SPECIES AND
CERTAINLY BETWEEN OUR BRAIN
AREAS BUT COULD BE A FASCINATING
OUTSIDE OF THE BOX ENDEAVOR TO
THINK ABOUT IN SOME WAY FOR SOME
GROUPS IN INTERPRETING HUMAN
BEHAVIOR AND WHAT IS REVERSIBLE
VERSUS WHAT IS NOT.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> I'LL JUMP IN AND SAY THE
COMMENT ABOUT PLASTICITY SAY
GREAT COMMENT.
I COMPLETELY AGREE AND REINFORCE
THE BROAD DEFINITION OF WHAT
WE'RE AFTER HERE WHEN WE TALK
ABOUT BRAIN FUNCTION.
THAT'S NOT A SINGULAR THING SO
MAKING CLEAR WHEN WE USE THAT WE
DON'T MEAN NECESSARILY FUNCTION
IN THE WAY SAY SOMEBODY DOING
THAT DOES BUT MAY PART OF IT BUT
INCORPORATES ALL THE LINK
ELEMENTS INCLUDING MEASUREMENTS
OF PLASTICITY AND NEUROCHEMICAL
CHANGES AND OVER THE TIMES OF
RANGE OF TIME FRAMES FRANCES
TALKED ABOUT ALL RELEVANT NOR
FUNCTION OF THE BRAIN.
WE WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT WE'RE
USING WHAT I CAUGHT BIG F
FUNCTIONAL IMAGING NOT LITTLE F
FUNCTIONAL IMAGING.
>> THERE'S ALREADY A RO1 OUT
THERE ABOUT NEURO IMAGING
RESEARCH AND PORTABLE MRIs
ALREADY HAS A NEUROETHICS MORE
INTERACTIONS WITH THE
NEUROETHICS FOLKS AND THE NEWG
AND THE NEURO ETHICS GROUP WOULD
BE EXCITED ABOUT THE
INTERACTIONS.
>> WE DID ONE AND WE HAD A
RECIPIENT OF THE SUPPLEMENTAL
AWARD FROM THE UL1 GRANT AND
STARTED A TOOL FOR THAT ONE.
WE DO KEEP IN MIND AND WILL
CONTINUE DOING THAT IN THE
FUTURE.
IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC.
>> -- ALSO TO THE NEURO
CHEMICAL SIDE THERE'S ONGOING
DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW TO SEPARATE
THAT.
IT'S A HUGE TOPIC AND
PRELIMINARY FROM AN
IMPLEMENTATION RESEARCH AND
SAFETY AND THERE'S A HUGE
DISCUSSION AND HOPE THERE'S NEW
OPPORTUNITY IN THE FUTURE AND
WITH OTHER PARTS IS A BIGGER
CHALLENGE.
NOW YOU WANT TO INVESTIGATE
OUTSIDE THE BRAIN AND HAVEN'T
DONE MUCH DEVELOPMENT IN THAT
IMAGING.
IT'S A NEW OPPORTUNITY AND
BROADER AND LARGER SCALE AND
TRULY EXCITING.
>> I'M NOT SEEING ANY OTHER
HANDS RAISED.
CLEARLY A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM FOR
THIS CONCEPT AND SOME ADDITIONAL
THINGS TO THINK ABOUT.
THANK YOU ALL.
I'M GOING ASSUME THE GENERAL
FEELING IS THIS IS A GOOD
CONCEPT FOR BRAIN TO BE
SUPPORTING AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS, SPEAK
NOW?
WELL, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.
AGAIN, THIS HAS BEEN A VERY RICH
CONVERSATION AND I THINK ALL OF
YOUR INPUT IS REALLY HELPFUL.
ALSO, I WANTED TO REMIND PEOPLE
THE NEUROETHICS WORKING GROUP
MEETING FROM YESTERDAY WILL BE
ON THE NIH VIDEOCAST SIDE AND
ARCHIVED THERE SO FOR THOSE
INTERESTED IN TRYING TO PUT IN
ADDITIONAL IDEAS OF HOW THAT
GROUP CAN MOVE FORWARD, THAT
WILL BE AVAILABLE IF YOU MISSED
IT YESTERDAY.
>> I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR
YOUR GREAT COMMENTS.
I WILL WRITE MY NOTES AND TAKE
THEM INTO FULL CONSIDERATION AND
IMPLEMENTATION.
THANK YOU AGAIN.
>> SO WE ARE READY FOR A BREAK
FOR LUNCH BREAK OR SOME KIND OF
BREAK.
WE'LL BE RESUMING AT 2:30 AND
THAT WILL BE THE CLOSED SESSION
AND THAT WILL AGAIN BE WITH JUST
THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AND FEDERAL
EMPLOYEES.
SO LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING TO
YOU THEN AND THERE IS A SEPARATE
ZOOM LINK TO GET ON TO THE
CLOSED SESSION.
>> THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR GREAT
COMMENTS.
WE WILL DEFINITELY TAKE THESE
UNDER CAREFUL CONSIDERATION AND
FOR THE COUNCIL MEMBERS WORKING
GROUP WE'LL SEE YOU IN HALF AN
HOUR OR SO?
MORE?
2:30.
>> 40 MINUTES.
>> GREAT.
THANKS SO MUCH.