1 00:00:06,809 --> 00:00:08,110 >> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. 2 00:00:08,110 --> 00:00:10,546 MY NAME IS ANDREW BREEDAN A 3 00:00:10,546 --> 00:00:11,814 PROGRAM OFFICER AT THE NATIONAL 4 00:00:11,814 --> 00:00:13,249 INSTITUTE OF MENTAL HEALTH AND 5 00:00:13,249 --> 00:00:15,217 MEMBER OF THE WORKSHOP PLANNING 6 00:00:15,217 --> 00:00:15,618 TEAM. 7 00:00:15,618 --> 00:00:16,819 ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM I'M 8 00:00:16,819 --> 00:00:18,988 PLEASED TO WELCOME YOU TO THE 9 00:00:18,988 --> 00:00:21,190 SECOND DAY OF THE BRAIN 10 00:00:21,190 --> 00:00:21,857 INITIATIVE WORKSHOP ON 11 00:00:21,857 --> 00:00:24,393 OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES FOR 12 00:00:24,393 --> 00:00:26,062 COORDINATED EFFORTS TO ADVANCE 13 00:00:26,062 --> 00:00:28,698 HUMAN NEUROSCIENCE WITH 14 00:00:28,698 --> 00:00:30,299 STIMULATION AND RECORDING 15 00:00:30,299 --> 00:00:30,599 APPROACHES. 16 00:00:30,599 --> 00:00:32,201 SO FOR THOSE WHO MAY BE JUST 17 00:00:32,201 --> 00:00:34,503 JOINING US TODAY AS YOU CAN SEE 18 00:00:34,503 --> 00:00:36,339 IN OUR AGENDA, YESTERDAY OUR 19 00:00:36,339 --> 00:00:38,474 PANELISTS HAD GREAT HIGH-LEVEL 20 00:00:38,474 --> 00:00:39,542 DISCUSSION ORGANIZED AROUND 21 00:00:39,542 --> 00:00:40,943 THREE KEY THEMES. 22 00:00:40,943 --> 00:00:42,712 FIRST, WHAT TYPES OF 23 00:00:42,712 --> 00:00:45,848 PERTURBATION ARE VALUABLE FOR 24 00:00:45,848 --> 00:00:47,283 EXPLAINING COGNITION AND 25 00:00:47,283 --> 00:00:48,351 BEHAVIOR AND KEY CONSIDERATIONS 26 00:00:48,351 --> 00:00:51,520 FOR THE USE OF BEHAVIORAL 27 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,122 ASSESSMENTS AND PERTURBATION 28 00:00:53,122 --> 00:00:54,857 RECORDING INSTRUMENTS AND WHAT 29 00:00:54,857 --> 00:00:56,859 LEVELS OF UNDERSTANDING CAN WE 30 00:00:56,859 --> 00:00:58,694 GAIN USING THESE APPROACHES. 31 00:00:58,694 --> 00:01:01,330 I WANT TO FIRST THANK OUR 32 00:01:01,330 --> 00:01:02,331 PANELISTS FOR EXTREMELY 33 00:01:02,331 --> 00:01:03,032 INSIGHTFUL DISCUSSIONS AND LATER 34 00:01:03,032 --> 00:01:05,401 IN THE DAY WE'LL HAVE A MORE 35 00:01:05,401 --> 00:01:06,969 EXTENSIVE RECAP OF THE KEY 36 00:01:06,969 --> 00:01:08,337 THEMES DISCUSSED IN THE SESSIONS 37 00:01:08,337 --> 00:01:10,439 BUT THIS WILL HAPPEN DIRECTLY 38 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:12,174 ABOUT OUR FINAL SESSION FOCUSSED 39 00:01:12,174 --> 00:01:13,943 ON PRACTICAL QUESTIONS IN ORDER 40 00:01:13,943 --> 00:01:16,379 TO SET THE STAGE FOR THIS 41 00:01:16,379 --> 00:01:16,679 DISCUSSION. 42 00:01:16,679 --> 00:01:25,287 SO YOU CAN SEE ON THE AGENDA THE 43 00:01:25,287 --> 00:01:26,489 THEME OF THE SESSION WILL BE HOW 44 00:01:26,489 --> 00:01:29,458 THEORY AND MODELLING CAN BE 45 00:01:29,458 --> 00:01:32,128 INTEGRATED WITH PERTURBATION TO 46 00:01:32,128 --> 00:01:34,764 UNDERSTANDED OBSERVED BEHAVIOR 47 00:01:34,764 --> 00:01:37,400 AND THIS WILL BE CHAIRED BY 48 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,535 DR. BUTSON AND CLAYTON AND WE'LL 49 00:01:39,535 --> 00:01:41,837 HAVE A RECAP OF THE MEETING 50 00:01:41,837 --> 00:01:43,205 FOLLOWING THAT AND THEN 51 00:01:43,205 --> 00:01:44,774 TRANSITION TO SESSION 5 AND 6. 52 00:01:44,774 --> 00:01:46,175 THESE SESSIONS WILL CONSISTENT 53 00:01:46,175 --> 00:01:47,510 OF MORE IN DEPTH PANEL 54 00:01:47,510 --> 00:01:48,811 DISCUSSIONS OF THE PRACTICAL 55 00:01:48,811 --> 00:01:50,045 QUESTIONS NEEDED TO INFORM 56 00:01:50,045 --> 00:01:50,946 COORDINATED STIMULATION 57 00:01:50,946 --> 00:01:54,116 RECORDING EFFORTS IN HUMANS. 58 00:01:54,116 --> 00:01:57,953 SESSION 5 WILL BE CHAIRED BY 59 00:01:57,953 --> 00:02:00,923 DOCTORS MICHAEL FOX AND 60 00:02:00,923 --> 00:02:05,995 FRANKOWSKI AND SESSION 6 CHAIRED 61 00:02:05,995 --> 00:02:16,505 BY DR. QUINLAN AND WE WANT TO 62 00:02:16,872 --> 00:02:17,807 PROMOTE DISCUSSION AMONG 63 00:02:17,807 --> 00:02:18,541 PANELISTS AND LIKE YESTERDAY 64 00:02:18,541 --> 00:02:20,476 HOPE TO HEAR A RANGE OF 65 00:02:20,476 --> 00:02:21,444 DISCUSSIONS. 66 00:02:21,444 --> 00:02:22,478 WHILE CONVERGENCE COULD BE A 67 00:02:22,478 --> 00:02:23,913 BONUS IT'S NOT NECESSARY IN 68 00:02:23,913 --> 00:02:26,282 HEARING A DIVERSITY OF OPINIONS 69 00:02:26,282 --> 00:02:29,618 COULD BE REALLY USEFUL AS WELL. 70 00:02:29,618 --> 00:02:30,986 AND WE'RE ALSO REALLY INTERESTED 71 00:02:30,986 --> 00:02:35,391 TO HEAR FROM OUR ATTENDEES TOO. 72 00:02:35,391 --> 00:02:36,492 THOSE JOINING ONLINE LISTENING 73 00:02:36,492 --> 00:02:38,427 TO THE WORKSHOP TODAY WE'D 74 00:02:38,427 --> 00:02:40,629 WELCOME YOUR INPUT AND TO DO SO 75 00:02:40,629 --> 00:02:41,864 WE HAVE A REQUEST FOR 76 00:02:41,864 --> 00:02:43,566 INFORMATION THAT'S ACTIVE YOU 77 00:02:43,566 --> 00:02:47,269 CAN SEE HERE. 78 00:02:47,269 --> 00:02:48,971 YOU CAN USE THIS TO PROVIDE 79 00:02:48,971 --> 00:02:50,539 THEMES OF THE WORKSHOP AND 80 00:02:50,539 --> 00:02:52,641 QUESTIONS AND RELATED MATTERS 81 00:02:52,641 --> 00:02:56,479 AND YOU CAN USE THIS QR CODE OR 82 00:02:56,479 --> 00:03:02,184 LEARNING TO GO TO THE R 5 TO 83 00:03:02,184 --> 00:03:03,853 PROVIDE YOUR E-MAIL AND MULTIPLE 84 00:03:03,853 --> 00:03:04,954 RESPONSES ARE ALLOWED. 85 00:03:04,954 --> 00:03:06,322 IF YOU'RE LISTENING TO ONE 86 00:03:06,322 --> 00:03:07,523 SESSION AND HAVE A SPECIFIC 87 00:03:07,523 --> 00:03:09,458 THOUGHT AND THEN YOU'RE 88 00:03:09,458 --> 00:03:10,426 LISTENING TO A LATER SESSION 89 00:03:10,426 --> 00:03:12,528 THROUGHOUT THE WORKSHOP YOU CAN 90 00:03:12,528 --> 00:03:13,963 SEND MULTIPLE RESPONSES AND THAT 91 00:03:13,963 --> 00:03:16,932 IS CERTAINLY ALLOWED AND 92 00:03:16,932 --> 00:03:18,267 WELCOME. 93 00:03:18,267 --> 00:03:21,036 SO NOW THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED SOME 94 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:21,871 GENERAL HOUSEKEEPING ITEMS I'LL 95 00:03:21,871 --> 00:03:25,107 TURN IT OVER TO OUR SESSION 4 96 00:03:25,107 --> 00:03:27,443 CHAIRS, DR. CHRIS BUTSON FROM 97 00:03:27,443 --> 00:03:30,179 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AND 98 00:03:30,179 --> 00:03:31,714 DR. BINGHAM FROM NINDS AND OUR 99 00:03:31,714 --> 00:03:33,782 SESSION 4 PANELISTS. 100 00:03:33,782 --> 00:03:35,751 JOIN US IN WELCOMING YOU ARE 101 00:03:35,751 --> 00:03:39,154 CHAIRS AND PANELISTS. 102 00:03:39,154 --> 00:03:41,824 >> THANK YOU. 103 00:03:41,824 --> 00:03:52,368 I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND SHARE 104 00:04:13,956 --> 00:04:14,123 SLIDES. 105 00:04:14,123 --> 00:04:24,333 ONE SECOND. 106 00:04:28,737 --> 00:04:30,573 >> CAN YOU SEE THAT OKAY? 107 00:04:30,573 --> 00:04:32,708 >> WE'RE SEEING THE PRESENTER 108 00:04:32,708 --> 00:04:33,409 VIEW. 109 00:04:33,409 --> 00:04:35,210 COULD YOU HIT THE SWAP 110 00:04:35,210 --> 00:04:44,587 DISCOVERIES BUTTON AT THE TOP. 111 00:04:44,587 --> 00:04:47,823 HIT USE SLIDE SHOW. 112 00:04:47,823 --> 00:04:57,967 >> YEP. 113 00:05:05,007 --> 00:05:08,210 >> SO I JUST WANT TO EXPRESS A 114 00:05:08,210 --> 00:05:12,281 THANK YOU TO THE ORGANIZERS AND 115 00:05:12,281 --> 00:05:13,282 MY FELLOW SPEAKERS AND 116 00:05:13,282 --> 00:05:14,183 DISCUSSANTS ON THE PANEL FOR 117 00:05:14,183 --> 00:05:14,717 JOINING TODAY. 118 00:05:14,717 --> 00:05:17,886 I KNOW GETTING THIS WORKSHOP 119 00:05:17,886 --> 00:05:19,688 TOGETHER WAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT 120 00:05:19,688 --> 00:05:22,057 OF WORK OVER A LONG PERIOD OF 121 00:05:22,057 --> 00:05:27,162 TIME AND ONE OF THE THINGS 122 00:05:27,162 --> 00:05:32,334 INVOLVED WITH THAT WORK AMONG 123 00:05:32,334 --> 00:05:34,103 OTHER PROGRAM STAFF WAS TAKING 124 00:05:34,103 --> 00:05:38,540 RICH AND ABSTRACT IDEAS AND 125 00:05:38,540 --> 00:05:42,678 ORGANIZING THEM IN A WAY THAT IS 126 00:05:42,678 --> 00:05:45,514 LOGICAL AND REALLY FACILITATES 127 00:05:45,514 --> 00:05:47,116 IN DEPTH DISCUSSION. 128 00:05:47,116 --> 00:05:48,751 I THINK IN ACADEMIA AND SCIENCE 129 00:05:48,751 --> 00:05:53,288 WE'RE USED TO WORKING WITH 130 00:05:53,288 --> 00:05:55,424 ABSTRACT IDEAS BUT THE TOPIC OF 131 00:05:55,424 --> 00:05:57,459 THEORY AND MODELLING OFTEN ADDS 132 00:05:57,459 --> 00:06:01,664 A WHOLE OTHER LAYER OF 133 00:06:01,664 --> 00:06:01,964 ABSTRACTION. 134 00:06:01,964 --> 00:06:05,267 FOR THEORY AND MODELLING, 135 00:06:05,267 --> 00:06:06,101 MATHEMATICS IS ITS NATIVE 136 00:06:06,101 --> 00:06:06,902 LANGUAGE. 137 00:06:06,902 --> 00:06:14,977 THIS IS BECAUSE IT CAN CONCISELY 138 00:06:14,977 --> 00:06:17,813 DESCRIBED DATA AND SYSTEMS AND 139 00:06:17,813 --> 00:06:21,283 IN THE PRACTICE OF MODELLING 140 00:06:21,283 --> 00:06:23,185 WE'LL TAKE THE MATHEMATICAL 141 00:06:23,185 --> 00:06:28,090 MODELLING AND CODIFY THEM TO 142 00:06:28,090 --> 00:06:34,897 PYTHON AND JULIA AND USE 143 00:06:34,897 --> 00:06:36,665 ADDITIONAL SPECIALIZED LANGUAGES 144 00:06:36,665 --> 00:06:38,267 AND THESE ARE MORE FAMILIAR TO 145 00:06:38,267 --> 00:06:39,301 SOME THAN OTHERS. 146 00:06:39,301 --> 00:06:44,339 PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THAT AND 147 00:06:44,339 --> 00:06:46,575 BECAUSE PEOPLE USE THESE 148 00:06:46,575 --> 00:06:48,877 TECHNIQUES ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE 149 00:06:48,877 --> 00:06:52,147 LANGUAGES IT'S EASY TO VEER OFF 150 00:06:52,147 --> 00:06:54,783 COURSE INTO REALLY ESOTERIC 151 00:06:54,783 --> 00:06:56,785 IDEAS AND CONCEPTS. 152 00:06:56,785 --> 00:06:59,321 I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO 153 00:06:59,321 --> 00:07:01,557 BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE MODELLING 154 00:07:01,557 --> 00:07:04,359 PROCESS OF TAKING THEORY AND 155 00:07:04,359 --> 00:07:06,962 DATA AND TURNING IT INTO 156 00:07:06,962 --> 00:07:08,897 SOMETHING USEFUL AND PREDICTIVE. 157 00:07:08,897 --> 00:07:13,268 SO THE WAY THAT I DESCRIBE THIS 158 00:07:13,268 --> 00:07:16,371 PROCESS IS REALLY CREATING A NEW 159 00:07:16,371 --> 00:07:18,440 SPECIES OF WILD ANIMAL THAT HAS 160 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:28,984 NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE AND THAT 161 00:07:29,885 --> 00:07:36,358 HAS TAB TAMED TO BE USEFUL AND 162 00:07:36,358 --> 00:07:42,131 CAN TAKE A 100 TIMES LONGER AND 163 00:07:42,131 --> 00:07:52,674 INVOLVES THIS INVOLVES A PROCESS 164 00:07:53,142 --> 00:07:54,943 OF HOW DO I MAKE IT STABLE AND 165 00:07:54,943 --> 00:07:57,045 MAKE IT UNDERSTANDABLE AND LEARN 166 00:07:57,045 --> 00:08:02,317 ITS BEHAVIOR AND TRAIN IT. 167 00:08:02,317 --> 00:08:11,193 IN THE END WE HAVE TO PASS A 168 00:08:11,193 --> 00:08:12,828 LITMUS TEST AND SENSITIVE TO 169 00:08:12,828 --> 00:08:13,395 INITIAL CONDITIONS. 170 00:08:13,395 --> 00:08:15,297 THIS PROCESS CAN BE VERY 171 00:08:15,297 --> 00:08:18,200 INSTRUCTIVE BECAUSE IT CAN 172 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,435 IDENTIFY PARAMETERS AND LATENT 173 00:08:20,435 --> 00:08:21,770 VARIABLES THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE 174 00:08:21,770 --> 00:08:23,806 BEEN OBVIOUS AT THE OUTSET. 175 00:08:23,806 --> 00:08:25,140 I'M SORRY, I SKIPPED OVER 176 00:08:25,140 --> 00:08:26,508 SOMETHING IN THE BEGINNING. 177 00:08:26,508 --> 00:08:30,579 I'M JUST GOING TO TOUCH ON THAT 178 00:08:30,579 --> 00:08:31,980 NOW. 179 00:08:31,980 --> 00:08:34,783 I PUT THIS SLIDE TOGETHER JUST 180 00:08:34,783 --> 00:08:37,085 TO EXPRESS GRATITUDE FOR THE 181 00:08:37,085 --> 00:08:39,087 BRAIN INITIATIVE AND I JUST WANT 182 00:08:39,087 --> 00:08:41,557 TO HIGHLIGHT THE FACT THAT AS A 183 00:08:41,557 --> 00:08:47,029 RESULT OF THE BRAIN INITIATIVE 184 00:08:47,029 --> 00:08:48,831 WE WERE ABLE TO, I ALONG WITH 185 00:08:48,831 --> 00:08:51,166 MANY COLLABORATORS IN MULTIPLE 186 00:08:51,166 --> 00:08:52,434 INSTITUTIONS IN THESE STUDIES, 187 00:08:52,434 --> 00:08:54,736 WERE ABLE TO PROSPECTIVELY TEST 188 00:08:54,736 --> 00:08:57,739 NEW THERAPIES IN HUMANS IN WAYS 189 00:08:57,739 --> 00:09:03,345 THAT PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE 190 00:09:03,345 --> 00:09:05,013 BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE BRAIN 191 00:09:05,013 --> 00:09:05,314 INITIATIVE. 192 00:09:05,314 --> 00:09:08,016 ONE OF THESE STUDIES IS NOW 193 00:09:08,016 --> 00:09:10,519 COMPLETE AND PUBLISHED IN 194 00:09:10,519 --> 00:09:11,820 DECEMBER AND THREE MORE ARE 195 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:16,091 STILL ONGOING. 196 00:09:16,091 --> 00:09:18,126 SO ALL OF THESE STUDIES LISTED 197 00:09:18,126 --> 00:09:21,530 WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE OF 198 00:09:21,530 --> 00:09:22,564 THEM IS GEARED TOWARDS 199 00:09:22,564 --> 00:09:25,234 DEVELOPING NEW THERAPIES FOR 200 00:09:25,234 --> 00:09:27,502 PATIENTS WITH INTRACTABLE 201 00:09:27,502 --> 00:09:29,004 NEUROLOGICAL OR PSYCHIATRIC 202 00:09:29,004 --> 00:09:30,706 CONDITIONS. 203 00:09:30,706 --> 00:09:33,909 SO THIS IS REALLY ENABLED US TO 204 00:09:33,909 --> 00:09:35,177 KIND OF CHANGE WHAT WE CAN DO 205 00:09:35,177 --> 00:09:37,246 AND THE WAY THAT WE'RE THINKING 206 00:09:37,246 --> 00:09:47,789 ABOUT THESE PATIENT POPULATIONS. 207 00:09:48,857 --> 00:09:49,925 SORE ROY ABOUT SKIPPING THAT IN 208 00:09:49,925 --> 00:09:50,659 THE BEGINNING. 209 00:09:50,659 --> 00:09:52,361 THE PROCESS OF LEARNING HOW THE 210 00:09:52,361 --> 00:09:53,462 MODEL BEHAVES AND WHAT IT'S 211 00:09:53,462 --> 00:09:58,233 SENSITIVE TO CAN BE REALLY 212 00:09:58,233 --> 00:09:58,533 INSTRUCTIVE. 213 00:09:58,533 --> 00:10:01,303 YOU CAN IDENTIFY PARAMETERS AND 214 00:10:01,303 --> 00:10:03,071 LATENT VARIABLES THAT MIGHT NOT 215 00:10:03,071 --> 00:10:04,973 HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS AND GO THROUGH 216 00:10:04,973 --> 00:10:07,342 THE PROCESS OF UNDERSTANDING, 217 00:10:07,342 --> 00:10:12,681 OKAY, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THESE 218 00:10:12,681 --> 00:10:12,948 VARIABLES. 219 00:10:12,948 --> 00:10:13,982 SOMETIMES THOSE INCLUDE 220 00:10:13,982 --> 00:10:16,018 VARIABLES WE CAN MEASURE 221 00:10:16,018 --> 00:10:16,385 PHYSIOLOGICALLY. 222 00:10:16,385 --> 00:10:18,320 WHEN YOU FIND THOSE YOU GET THE 223 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,122 FEELING YOU'RE POTENTIALLY ON TO 224 00:10:20,122 --> 00:10:20,789 SOMETHING. 225 00:10:20,789 --> 00:10:26,161 THEN YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS 226 00:10:26,161 --> 00:10:27,496 OF ASKING IS THIS MODEL 227 00:10:27,496 --> 00:10:29,164 SUFFICIENTLY PRECISE AND 228 00:10:29,164 --> 00:10:31,934 ACCURATE FOR THE EXPERIMENTS 229 00:10:31,934 --> 00:10:42,411 WE'RE CONDUCTING. 230 00:10:42,411 --> 00:10:45,113 AND MODELS ARE TIGHTLY 231 00:10:45,113 --> 00:10:47,582 INTEGRATED INTO BEHAVIORAL 232 00:10:47,582 --> 00:10:51,386 STUDIES, PHYSIOLOGICAL STUDIES, 233 00:10:51,386 --> 00:10:53,722 PERTURBATION STUDIES, INVASIVE 234 00:10:53,722 --> 00:10:57,125 OR NON-INVASIVE. 235 00:10:57,125 --> 00:10:59,127 THIS PROCESS OF WEAVING IN THE 236 00:10:59,127 --> 00:11:04,399 MODELLING INTO THE REST OF THE 237 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:07,135 STUDIES CAN TAKE WEEKS OR EVEN 238 00:11:07,135 --> 00:11:08,837 MONTHS TO PLAN THOSE 239 00:11:08,837 --> 00:11:09,204 EXPERIMENTS. 240 00:11:09,204 --> 00:11:15,410 THIS IS REALLY A PAINSTAKING 241 00:11:15,410 --> 00:11:15,644 PROCESS. 242 00:11:15,644 --> 00:11:17,813 THEN WE'LL ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT 243 00:11:17,813 --> 00:11:21,116 CAN THIS MODEL BE VALIDATED? 244 00:11:21,116 --> 00:11:23,418 BUT IN THE END WE ASK CAN THIS 245 00:11:23,418 --> 00:11:25,687 BE USED TO MAKE TESTABLE 246 00:11:25,687 --> 00:11:25,988 PREDICTIONS? 247 00:11:25,988 --> 00:11:29,825 AND IF WE BELIEVE THE ANSWER IS 248 00:11:29,825 --> 00:11:33,562 YES, THEN WE START DESIGNING 249 00:11:33,562 --> 00:11:35,530 EXPERIMENTS THAT CAN TEST THOSE 250 00:11:35,530 --> 00:11:35,998 IDEAS AND TEST THOSE 251 00:11:35,998 --> 00:11:38,033 PREDICTIONS. 252 00:11:38,033 --> 00:11:40,635 ONCE WE GET TO THAT POINT, THEN 253 00:11:40,635 --> 00:11:45,907 WE HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT 254 00:11:45,907 --> 00:11:48,643 SCIENTIFIC VISUALIZATION. 255 00:11:48,643 --> 00:11:51,847 THIS IS A PROCESS THAT CAN 256 00:11:51,847 --> 00:11:53,415 REALLY TAKE AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT 257 00:11:53,415 --> 00:12:00,355 OF TIME AND EFFORT ON ITS OWN. 258 00:12:00,355 --> 00:12:02,991 AND TRYING TO CONCISELY DESCRIBE 259 00:12:02,991 --> 00:12:04,026 SOMETIMES VERY LARGE AND COMPLEX 260 00:12:04,026 --> 00:12:06,895 DATA SETS IN WAYS THAT ARE 261 00:12:06,895 --> 00:12:08,363 UNDERSTANDABLE FOR DISSEMINATION 262 00:12:08,363 --> 00:12:12,868 AND ALSO IN WAYS THAT ARE 263 00:12:12,868 --> 00:12:15,871 UNDERSTANDABLE FOR FOR EXAMPLE 264 00:12:15,871 --> 00:12:17,005 CLINICAL DECISION SUPPORT OR 265 00:12:17,005 --> 00:12:18,540 UNDERSTANDING IN A POTENTIALLY 266 00:12:18,540 --> 00:12:20,208 NOVEL THERAPY HOW IT SHOULD BE 267 00:12:20,208 --> 00:12:27,149 APPLIED IN INDIVIDUALS. 268 00:12:27,149 --> 00:12:30,652 IN THE END THE LITMUS TEST FOR 269 00:12:30,652 --> 00:12:33,488 THIS PROCESS IS ASKING IS IT 270 00:12:33,488 --> 00:12:34,856 UNDERSTANDABLE AND IMPORTANTLY 271 00:12:34,856 --> 00:12:37,793 DO THE VISUALIZATIONS CREATE NEW 272 00:12:37,793 --> 00:12:39,428 INSIGHTS WE DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE? 273 00:12:39,428 --> 00:12:45,901 IF YOU GET THROUGH ALL THAT 274 00:12:45,901 --> 00:12:47,569 YOU'RE NEARING THE END OF THE 275 00:12:47,569 --> 00:12:49,538 PROCESS AND GET THE VERY 276 00:12:49,538 --> 00:12:51,206 GRATIFYING FEELING OF PUTTING A 277 00:12:51,206 --> 00:12:57,112 NEW TOOL IN YOUR TOOLBOX. 278 00:12:57,112 --> 00:12:59,247 MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU HAVE 279 00:12:59,247 --> 00:13:01,349 SOMETHING THAT HOPEFULLY CAN BE 280 00:13:01,349 --> 00:13:03,385 INTEGRATED INTO THE REPERTOIRE 281 00:13:03,385 --> 00:13:05,253 OF SCIENTIFIC TOOLS TO ASK 282 00:13:05,253 --> 00:13:07,756 QUESTIONS AND TEST NEW 283 00:13:07,756 --> 00:13:08,056 HYPOTHESES. 284 00:13:08,056 --> 00:13:10,525 SO I JUST PUT TOGETHER THIS 285 00:13:10,525 --> 00:13:11,893 BRIEF INTRODUCTION BECAUSE I 286 00:13:11,893 --> 00:13:14,129 WANTED TO GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF 287 00:13:14,129 --> 00:13:15,764 WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE THE 288 00:13:15,764 --> 00:13:17,132 EXPERIMENTAL SCIENCE OF 289 00:13:17,132 --> 00:13:20,368 MODELLING AND I HOPE WE CAN USE 290 00:13:20,368 --> 00:13:21,803 IT AS A CONSTRUCT FOR 291 00:13:21,803 --> 00:13:22,104 DISCUSSION. 292 00:13:22,104 --> 00:13:27,576 AS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS PROCESS I 293 00:13:27,576 --> 00:13:31,146 WANT TO POINT OUT THIS REVIEW 294 00:13:31,146 --> 00:13:32,581 PAPER PUBLISHED FROM THREE WELL 295 00:13:32,581 --> 00:13:34,082 KNOWN NEURO SCIENTISTS. 296 00:13:34,082 --> 00:13:35,550 AS A REVIEW PAPER IT'S NOT 297 00:13:35,550 --> 00:13:37,285 TRYING TO SHOW RESULTS. 298 00:13:37,285 --> 00:13:38,687 IT'S TRYING TO EXPRESS IDEAS. 299 00:13:38,687 --> 00:13:41,456 I LOVE THIS FIGURE ESPECIALLY 300 00:13:41,456 --> 00:13:44,159 PART D ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE. 301 00:13:44,159 --> 00:13:46,161 IN THE PAPER THEY DON'T TALK 302 00:13:46,161 --> 00:13:49,197 ABOUT WHAT DATA WAS COLLECTED 303 00:13:49,197 --> 00:13:51,600 PHYSIOLOGICALLY OR WHAT WAS THE 304 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,603 MODELLING THOUGH MODELLING HAD 305 00:13:54,603 --> 00:13:56,771 TO BE USED, THEY BEAUTIFULLY 306 00:13:56,771 --> 00:13:58,840 WOVE EVERYTHING TOGETHER TO A 307 00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,875 SINGLE UNIFYING PRESENTATION 308 00:13:59,875 --> 00:14:02,444 THAT EXPRESSES HOW INTRACELLULAR 309 00:14:02,444 --> 00:14:05,147 AND EXTRA CELLULAR ACTIVITY 310 00:14:05,147 --> 00:14:07,349 EVOLVED IN TIME AND SPACE. 311 00:14:07,349 --> 00:14:12,888 IN THIS CASE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL 312 00:14:12,888 --> 00:14:13,555 NEURON. 313 00:14:13,555 --> 00:14:15,624 SO I USE THIS IN TEACHING AND 314 00:14:15,624 --> 00:14:17,726 USE THIS AS AN EXAMPLE OF KIND 315 00:14:17,726 --> 00:14:24,966 OF THE CULMINATION OF THIS 316 00:14:24,966 --> 00:14:25,267 PROCESS. 317 00:14:25,267 --> 00:14:26,735 I'LL WRAP UP THERE. 318 00:14:26,735 --> 00:14:29,037 I WANT TO SAY I ENJOYED THE 319 00:14:29,037 --> 00:14:31,106 SESSION YESTERDAY AND NOTED A 320 00:14:31,106 --> 00:14:33,008 FEW THEMES WE MIGHT INCLUDE IN 321 00:14:33,008 --> 00:14:35,810 THE DISCUSSION TODAY INCLUDING 322 00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:40,382 MECHANISMS, WHERE AND HOW ENERGY 323 00:14:40,382 --> 00:14:43,084 IS DELIVERED DURING PERTURBATION 324 00:14:43,084 --> 00:14:47,722 AND QUANTITATIVE COMPARISONS 325 00:14:47,722 --> 00:14:50,125 AMONG DIFFERENT STIMULATION 326 00:14:50,125 --> 00:14:58,900 MODALALITIY -- MODALITIES I'M 327 00:14:58,900 --> 00:14:59,935 PLEASED TO BE JOINED BY 328 00:14:59,935 --> 00:15:04,573 DR. RITTER, DR. KUCEYESKI AND 329 00:15:04,573 --> 00:15:15,116 DR. SHINE AND DR. PETRACHEF AND 330 00:15:20,055 --> 00:15:27,128 DR. SHANECHI. 331 00:15:27,128 --> 00:15:31,733 >> I'M SHARE MY SCREEN. 332 00:15:31,733 --> 00:15:34,369 I WANT TO SHARE THE LATEST 333 00:15:34,369 --> 00:15:38,073 DEVELOPMENTS AND BRING THAT WORK 334 00:15:38,073 --> 00:15:41,309 MODELLING AND WHAT WE'RE DOING 335 00:15:41,309 --> 00:15:44,246 WE RECONSTRUCT INDIVIDUAL BRANDS 336 00:15:44,246 --> 00:15:50,552 OF ANIMALS OR HUMANS AND THIS 337 00:15:50,552 --> 00:15:53,922 GIVES US A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO 338 00:15:53,922 --> 00:15:58,927 UNDERSTAND HOW DIFFERENT 339 00:15:58,927 --> 00:16:04,065 ENTITIES ARE GENERATING TO ARE 340 00:16:04,065 --> 00:16:06,668 OBSERVATIONS AND THE FRAMEWORK 341 00:16:06,668 --> 00:16:11,306 WE'RE USING HAS BEEN DEVELOPED 342 00:16:11,306 --> 00:16:19,514 SOME TIME AGAIN AND WE WORKED 343 00:16:19,514 --> 00:16:21,416 WITH OTHERS COORDINATING THE 344 00:16:21,416 --> 00:16:23,251 INITIATIVE THAT WAS FIRST 345 00:16:23,251 --> 00:16:26,421 AVAILABLE IN 2013 I THINK OR 346 00:16:26,421 --> 00:16:29,257 2012 EVEN AS A SOFTWARE AND NOW 347 00:16:29,257 --> 00:16:31,293 IT'S GETTING FURTHER ADVANCED. 348 00:16:31,293 --> 00:16:35,997 NOTICE WE HAVE MIGHTY SPEAR 349 00:16:35,997 --> 00:16:37,899 MODELS AND THERE'S OTHER 350 00:16:37,899 --> 00:16:40,001 COMPONENTS OF THE BRAIN ARE 351 00:16:40,001 --> 00:16:42,037 SIMULATED AS CAUSAL RESOLUTION 352 00:16:42,037 --> 00:16:45,940 AND ALL KINDS OF NEURONAL 353 00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:47,175 ACTIVITY AS A RESULT OF COMPLEX 354 00:16:47,175 --> 00:16:48,276 INTERACTIONS OF DIFFERENT 355 00:16:48,276 --> 00:16:51,346 ELEMENTS IN THE BRAIN THAT ARE 356 00:16:51,346 --> 00:16:53,615 INFORMED BY THE DATA THE IMAGING 357 00:16:53,615 --> 00:16:56,184 DATA OF THE INDIVIDUAL SUBJECTS. 358 00:16:56,184 --> 00:16:58,486 TO GIVE YOU TWO QUICK EXAMPLES 359 00:16:58,486 --> 00:17:02,390 OF RECENT WORK WHERE WE 360 00:17:02,390 --> 00:17:03,391 UNDERSTOOD PRINCIPLES OF HOW THE 361 00:17:03,391 --> 00:17:05,960 BRAIN DYNAMICS EVOLVED. 362 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,232 WE UNDERSTOOD THE MECHANISM OF 363 00:17:11,232 --> 00:17:13,401 GENERATING THESE TRAVELLING 364 00:17:13,401 --> 00:17:15,103 WAVES FRONTS THAT TRAVEL OVER 365 00:17:15,103 --> 00:17:17,038 THE BRAIN GLOBALLY AND CAN BE 366 00:17:17,038 --> 00:17:21,810 ALSO FOUND ON ALL KIND OF 367 00:17:21,810 --> 00:17:25,747 SPATIAL SCALES AND THE POTENTIAL 368 00:17:25,747 --> 00:17:34,155 SUCH WAVE FORMS HAVE 369 00:17:34,155 --> 00:17:36,624 SYNCHRONIZING POTENTIAL AND 370 00:17:36,624 --> 00:17:38,326 BUILDING PLASTICITY AROUND CAN 371 00:17:38,326 --> 00:17:41,996 BE SIMULATED WITH RULES AND THE 372 00:17:41,996 --> 00:17:42,297 SIMULATION. 373 00:17:42,297 --> 00:17:43,531 ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE WE'VE 374 00:17:43,531 --> 00:17:45,667 LINKED THE DYNAMICS SIMULATED TO 375 00:17:45,667 --> 00:17:47,068 THE BEHAVIOR AND THERE'S A 376 00:17:47,068 --> 00:17:49,738 RECENT STUDY WHERE WE USE THE 377 00:17:49,738 --> 00:17:54,008 HUMAN CONNECTOME DATA ACTUALLY 378 00:17:54,008 --> 00:17:57,312 TO BUILD 50 SUCH VIRTUAL BRAINS 379 00:17:57,312 --> 00:18:03,184 AND PLUCKED CIRCUIT MODELS IN 380 00:18:03,184 --> 00:18:06,788 THE FRONTAL PARIETAL CORTEX 381 00:18:06,788 --> 00:18:09,791 INDEPENDENT OF THE GLOBAL 382 00:18:09,791 --> 00:18:11,993 ACTIVITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL'S 383 00:18:11,993 --> 00:18:12,227 BRAINS. 384 00:18:12,227 --> 00:18:15,430 AND VALUABLE TO PREDICT THE 385 00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:17,665 PERFORM OF THESE INDIVIDUALS 386 00:18:17,665 --> 00:18:20,068 ALSO MEASURED FINDING THEORY HOW 387 00:18:20,068 --> 00:18:24,005 THE DIFFERENCES CAN BE EXPLAINED 388 00:18:24,005 --> 00:18:28,877 AND THE SPEED OF STIGS MAKE -- 389 00:18:28,877 --> 00:18:30,645 DECISION MAKING AND THE FINAL 390 00:18:30,645 --> 00:18:31,780 GOAL IS TO BRING INNOVATIONS TO 391 00:18:31,780 --> 00:18:37,852 THE CLINIC TO MAKE THE PATIENTS 392 00:18:37,852 --> 00:18:42,090 BENEFIT AND DEVELOPING MODELS 393 00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:47,429 FOR DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION AND 394 00:18:47,429 --> 00:18:51,766 WITH OTHERS WHAT YOU SEE IS NICE 395 00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:53,401 POTENTIAL DATA INTEGRATION. 396 00:18:53,401 --> 00:19:03,011 WE HAVE THE DATA OF A PATIENT 397 00:19:03,011 --> 00:19:05,413 BUT ALSO DETAILED DATA AND THE 398 00:19:05,413 --> 00:19:08,483 ADDITIONAL DEGREE OF DETAIL CAN 399 00:19:08,483 --> 00:19:13,721 BE INCLUDED BECAUSE OF OUR 400 00:19:13,721 --> 00:19:15,457 PATIENT SPECIFIC BRAIN FOLLOWS 401 00:19:15,457 --> 00:19:17,125 SPECIFIC STANDARDS AND USES THE 402 00:19:17,125 --> 00:19:19,661 STANDARDS TO INTEGRATE THE 403 00:19:19,661 --> 00:19:21,663 INFORMATION AND BUILD MODELS AND 404 00:19:21,663 --> 00:19:27,802 THE BASIC UNDER LAYER OF FINE 405 00:19:27,802 --> 00:19:29,070 DEGREE OF DETAIL TO UNDERSTAND 406 00:19:29,070 --> 00:19:30,972 THE IMPACT OF DEEP BRAIN 407 00:19:30,972 --> 00:19:32,607 STIMULATION OR THE DYNAMICS AND 408 00:19:32,607 --> 00:19:36,711 THE LOCAL NETWORK AROUND THE 409 00:19:36,711 --> 00:19:38,313 THALAMUS AND GLOBALLY AROUND THE 410 00:19:38,313 --> 00:19:43,051 REST OF BRAIN. 411 00:19:43,051 --> 00:19:45,820 THE FINAL SLIDE IS ABOUT TESTING 412 00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:46,921 TRUSTWORTHINESS BEFORE GOING TO 413 00:19:46,921 --> 00:19:49,157 THE PATIENT AND NEED TO BE 414 00:19:49,157 --> 00:19:54,095 VALIDATED AND CERTIFIED AND 415 00:19:54,095 --> 00:19:59,200 DEVICE REGULATION AND THE FIRST 416 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,906 OF LEGAL FRAMEWORK FOR A.I. AND 417 00:20:04,906 --> 00:20:10,912 WE HAVE THE TESTING FACILITY TO 418 00:20:10,912 --> 00:20:15,383 DEFINE STANDARDS AND TO ENSURE 419 00:20:15,383 --> 00:20:17,151 THAT SUCH COMPLEX APPLICATIONS 420 00:20:17,151 --> 00:20:20,688 THAT RELY ON MATHEMATICS AND ARE 421 00:20:20,688 --> 00:20:23,424 ALSO CONTEXT DEPENDENT, SO 422 00:20:23,424 --> 00:20:29,864 CHANGE OF INPUT CAN CHANGE THE 423 00:20:29,864 --> 00:20:31,432 BEHAVIOR THAT THEY CAN BE 424 00:20:31,432 --> 00:20:35,837 ASSESSED FOR RISK DEPENDING ON 425 00:20:35,837 --> 00:20:42,944 THE APPLICATION AND PATIENTS. 426 00:20:42,944 --> 00:20:44,812 I HOPE I WAS ABLE TO SHOW YOU 427 00:20:44,812 --> 00:20:46,114 THE POTENTIAL I SEE IN THE BRAIN 428 00:20:46,114 --> 00:20:47,248 MODELLING AND THANK YOU VERY 429 00:20:47,248 --> 00:20:50,652 MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO 430 00:20:50,652 --> 00:20:52,687 DISCUSS THIS AND LOOKING FORWARD 431 00:20:52,687 --> 00:20:54,255 TO THE OTHER PRESENTATION AND 432 00:20:54,255 --> 00:20:54,556 DISCUSSION. 433 00:20:54,556 --> 00:20:57,559 THANK YOU. 434 00:20:57,559 --> 00:20:59,460 >> THANKS SO MUCH. 435 00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:03,831 IT'S A MAJOR UNDERTAKING 436 00:21:03,831 --> 00:21:04,766 CROSSING A LOT OF DOMAINS 437 00:21:04,766 --> 00:21:09,137 INCLUDING REGULATORY. 438 00:21:09,137 --> 00:21:13,274 NEXT WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO OUR 439 00:21:13,274 --> 00:21:19,948 NEXT SPEAKER, DR. KUCEYESKI. 440 00:21:28,957 --> 00:21:34,896 >> OKAY, SHARE MY SCREEN. 441 00:21:34,896 --> 00:21:36,698 >> SO YEAH, FIRST I WANT TO SAY 442 00:21:36,698 --> 00:21:37,932 THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME. 443 00:21:37,932 --> 00:21:39,701 IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE. 444 00:21:39,701 --> 00:21:41,636 ESPECIALLY TO CHRIS AND CLAYTON 445 00:21:41,636 --> 00:21:42,770 FOR INVITING US AND PUTTING 446 00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:45,807 TOGETHER THIS FANTASTIC PANEL. 447 00:21:45,807 --> 00:21:49,510 AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT 448 00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:51,546 DR. RITTER'S PRESENTATION THERE 449 00:21:51,546 --> 00:21:54,616 WAS BEAUTIFUL AND IT'S A GOOD 450 00:21:54,616 --> 00:21:58,920 INTRODUCTION TO MINE BUT SO NAME 451 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,555 IS AMY KUCEYESKI FROM CORNELL 452 00:22:00,555 --> 00:22:04,158 MEDICINE A PROFESSOR IN THE 453 00:22:04,158 --> 00:22:05,293 RADIOLOGY DEPARTMENT AND BRAIN 454 00:22:05,293 --> 00:22:08,396 AND MIND INSTITUTE AND WORK IN 455 00:22:08,396 --> 00:22:10,064 BRAIN BEHAVIOR MAPPING USING 456 00:22:10,064 --> 00:22:11,099 DIFFERENT COMPUTATIONAL 457 00:22:11,099 --> 00:22:12,000 APPROACHES AND A.I. AS WELL. 458 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,635 IT'S A PERFECT INTRODUCTION. 459 00:22:13,635 --> 00:22:15,470 THIS IDEA OF THE BRAIN IN A BOX 460 00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:17,572 OR DIGITAL TWIN IS A WAY OF 461 00:22:17,572 --> 00:22:20,174 INTEGRATING DIFFERENT SOURCES OF 462 00:22:20,174 --> 00:22:21,409 INFORMATION ABOUT A PARTICULAR 463 00:22:21,409 --> 00:22:25,113 PERSON TO SORT OF MAKE A 464 00:22:25,113 --> 00:22:29,517 COMPUTATIONAL MODEL THAT IS IN A 465 00:22:29,517 --> 00:22:30,618 VIRTUAL ENVIRONMENT WHICH YOU 466 00:22:30,618 --> 00:22:32,186 CAN THEN PROBE TO SORT OF SEE 467 00:22:32,186 --> 00:22:37,425 WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BRAIN IF YOU 468 00:22:37,425 --> 00:22:40,061 APPLY DIFFERENT MODEL OF THE 469 00:22:40,061 --> 00:22:41,596 STIMULATION AND FREQUENCY AND 470 00:22:41,596 --> 00:22:42,764 DURATION OF THE STIMULATION AND 471 00:22:42,764 --> 00:22:47,835 TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE PERSON'S 472 00:22:47,835 --> 00:22:52,073 ANATOMY AND PHYSIOLOGY AND MRI 473 00:22:52,073 --> 00:22:58,446 AND AS WELL AS THEIR ANATOMICAL 474 00:22:58,446 --> 00:23:01,315 CORTICAL FOLDING AND ALSO TOOK 475 00:23:01,315 --> 00:23:03,551 INTO ACCOUNT TE BRAIN STATES AND 476 00:23:03,551 --> 00:23:04,619 RECORDING STIMULATION INCLUDING 477 00:23:04,619 --> 00:23:07,155 THINGS OVER ALL AROUSAL OR THE 478 00:23:07,155 --> 00:23:08,523 PERSON'S ACTIVITY PATTERN AT THE 479 00:23:08,523 --> 00:23:10,291 POINT OF STIMULATION DELIVERY. 480 00:23:10,291 --> 00:23:11,759 AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S BRAIN 481 00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:12,994 BEHAVIOR MODELS. 482 00:23:12,994 --> 00:23:15,296 I WORK A LOT IN THIS USING A.I. 483 00:23:15,296 --> 00:23:17,131 OR STATISTICAL APPROACHES TO MAP 484 00:23:17,131 --> 00:23:21,536 BRAIN ACTIVITY OR FUNCTIONAL 485 00:23:21,536 --> 00:23:24,038 ACTIVITY TO BEHAVIOR. 486 00:23:24,038 --> 00:23:26,307 IF WE HAVE THIS END TO END TWIN 487 00:23:26,307 --> 00:23:28,009 OF A PERSON WE CAN FIND 488 00:23:28,009 --> 00:23:29,577 PARAMETERS TO GET A PARTICULAR 489 00:23:29,577 --> 00:23:31,345 BEHAVIORAL OUTCOME. 490 00:23:31,345 --> 00:23:34,849 WE COULD ALSO SKIP -- THIS MAY 491 00:23:34,849 --> 00:23:36,117 BE A CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT FOR 492 00:23:36,117 --> 00:23:40,154 THE PANEL BUT SKIP THE BIO 493 00:23:40,154 --> 00:23:41,189 PHYSICAL MODEL AND TAKE IN 494 00:23:41,189 --> 00:23:42,056 INFORMATION ABOUT THE PARADIGM 495 00:23:42,056 --> 00:23:48,329 AND PREDICT THE OUTCOME 496 00:23:48,329 --> 00:23:48,796 ALTOGETHER. 497 00:23:48,796 --> 00:23:51,532 SOME OF THE APPROACHES ARE 498 00:23:51,532 --> 00:23:55,369 NETWORK CONTROL THEORY TO MODEL 499 00:23:55,369 --> 00:23:56,404 ACTIVATION. 500 00:23:56,404 --> 00:23:59,173 THIS PRINCIPLE IS A CONNECTED 501 00:23:59,173 --> 00:24:00,608 DYNAMICAL SYSTEM THAT CAN BE 502 00:24:00,608 --> 00:24:02,944 CONTROLLED. 503 00:24:02,944 --> 00:24:03,778 SO IN THIS CASE THE COMPLEX 504 00:24:03,778 --> 00:24:05,847 SYSTEM IS THE BRAIN AND HAS THE 505 00:24:05,847 --> 00:24:06,948 DIFFERENT STATES OF ACTIVATION 506 00:24:06,948 --> 00:24:09,484 AND WHEN I SAY STATE I MEAN 507 00:24:09,484 --> 00:24:10,685 PATTERN OF BRAIN ACTIVITY AT 508 00:24:10,685 --> 00:24:12,553 THAT TIME AND MOVE THROUGH THE 509 00:24:12,553 --> 00:24:17,258 STATES WITH SOME LEVEL OF 510 00:24:17,258 --> 00:24:18,960 REGULAR PROBABILITIES. 511 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,865 THIS WAS FIRST INTRODUCED BY 512 00:24:23,865 --> 00:24:25,333 DANNY'S LAB AND GLAD TO HEAR 513 00:24:25,333 --> 00:24:27,368 FROM THEM YESTERDAY AND A WAY TO 514 00:24:27,368 --> 00:24:30,605 INTEGRATE THE STRUCTURAL 515 00:24:30,605 --> 00:24:32,273 CONNECTOME WITH THE FUNCTIONAL 516 00:24:32,273 --> 00:24:33,608 PATTERNS OVER TIME USING A 517 00:24:33,608 --> 00:24:35,409 SYSTEM OF DIFFERENTIAL 518 00:24:35,409 --> 00:24:37,078 EQUATIONS, I WON'T GO INTO 519 00:24:37,078 --> 00:24:39,080 DETAIL BUT A WAY OF PREDICTING 520 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,048 BRAIN ACTIVITY FROM CURRENT 521 00:24:41,048 --> 00:24:41,249 STATE. 522 00:24:41,249 --> 00:24:43,017 WE APPLIED THIS IN MANY 523 00:24:43,017 --> 00:24:45,653 DIFFERENT CASES. 524 00:24:45,653 --> 00:24:48,523 WE'VE SEEN NETWORK CONTROL 525 00:24:48,523 --> 00:24:49,957 THEORY BASED NETWORKS CALLED 526 00:24:49,957 --> 00:24:51,058 TRANSITION ENERGY THE AMOUNT OF 527 00:24:51,058 --> 00:24:53,094 ENERGY YOU NEED TO INJECT IN THE 528 00:24:53,094 --> 00:24:55,663 SYSTEM TO COMPLETE STATE 529 00:24:55,663 --> 00:24:56,597 TRANSITIONS AND SEE THE 530 00:24:56,597 --> 00:24:57,698 TRANSITION ENERGY IS DECREASED 531 00:24:57,698 --> 00:25:00,134 IN PSYCHEDELICS AND INFECTIOUSED 532 00:25:00,134 --> 00:25:02,436 IN PEOPLE WITH HEAVY ALCOHOL USE 533 00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:06,207 AND INCREASED IN MILD TBI AND 534 00:25:06,207 --> 00:25:09,043 DECREASED AND INCREASED ACROSS 535 00:25:09,043 --> 00:25:10,144 DISABILITY AND PEOPLE WITH 536 00:25:10,144 --> 00:25:11,045 MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS. 537 00:25:11,045 --> 00:25:14,615 I'LL TALK ABOUT A CASE STUDY THE 538 00:25:14,615 --> 00:25:18,519 MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD STUDY WITH 539 00:25:18,519 --> 00:25:22,356 DATA FROM PEOPLE WHO HAD AN LSD 540 00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:32,900 SESSION AND ANOTHER DATA WITH 541 00:25:34,135 --> 00:25:36,671 OTHERS SUBSTANCES AND IT COULD 542 00:25:36,671 --> 00:25:39,006 BE RELATED TO TRANSITION ENERGY 543 00:25:39,006 --> 00:25:43,578 NEEDED TO COMPLETE STATE 544 00:25:43,578 --> 00:25:44,779 ADMINISTRATIONS. 545 00:25:44,779 --> 00:25:51,485 WE SET OUT TO TEST IT AFFECTED 546 00:25:51,485 --> 00:26:02,029 THE FRAMEWORK AND FOUND IT AND 547 00:26:09,303 --> 00:26:10,671 YOU SEE THE TIME TRANSITION 548 00:26:10,671 --> 00:26:12,940 ENERGY AND AFTER THE PSILOCYBIN 549 00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:15,176 INFUSION WE SEE A GREAT DECREASE 550 00:26:15,176 --> 00:26:16,744 THAT REMAINS CONSISTENT ACROSS 551 00:26:16,744 --> 00:26:19,380 THE INFUSION. 552 00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:22,483 WE ALSO WANTED TO TEST ON 553 00:26:22,483 --> 00:26:23,751 INDIVIDUAL SUBJECT LEVEL IF THE 554 00:26:23,751 --> 00:26:25,853 AMOUNT OF DECREASED ENERGY WAS 555 00:26:25,853 --> 00:26:27,822 RELATED TO INCREASES IN ENTROPY 556 00:26:27,822 --> 00:26:32,894 AND SEE THIS IS TRUE OR 557 00:26:32,894 --> 00:26:33,794 CORRELATIONS ACROSS THE METRICS 558 00:26:33,794 --> 00:26:35,529 BETWEEN SUBJECTS AND 559 00:26:35,529 --> 00:26:37,164 INDEPENDENTLY VALIDATED IN 560 00:26:37,164 --> 00:26:39,901 ANOTHER DATA SET WHERE THEY DID 561 00:26:39,901 --> 00:26:44,605 PLASMA SAMPLING OF THE SINNOSIN 562 00:26:44,605 --> 00:26:47,008 LEVEL AND FOUND CORRELATED WITH 563 00:26:47,008 --> 00:26:48,309 THE ENTROPY OF THE BRAIN 564 00:26:48,309 --> 00:26:49,510 ACTIVATION. 565 00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:52,947 MECHANISTICALLY WE KNOW 566 00:26:52,947 --> 00:26:57,818 PSILOCYBIN AND LSB ACT ON THE 567 00:26:57,818 --> 00:27:01,555 SEROTONIN RECEPTORS AND HAD PET 568 00:27:01,555 --> 00:27:06,827 DATA WHERE WE HAD SEROTONIN 569 00:27:06,827 --> 00:27:07,962 CONCENTRATION MAPS AND 570 00:27:07,962 --> 00:27:09,196 INTEGRATED THAT IN OUR FRAMEWORK 571 00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:12,033 TO SEE WHAT IT WOULD DO TO THE 572 00:27:12,033 --> 00:27:14,502 CONTROL ENERGIES IN THE VIRTUAL 573 00:27:14,502 --> 00:27:14,802 ENVIRONMENT. 574 00:27:14,802 --> 00:27:22,777 THE 5H T2A RECEPTOR SEEMS TO 575 00:27:22,777 --> 00:27:24,445 HAVE PERFECT THE BEST LOWERING 576 00:27:24,445 --> 00:27:26,247 OF TRANSITION ENERGY COMPARED TO 577 00:27:26,247 --> 00:27:27,848 OTHER SEROTONIN MAPS. 578 00:27:27,848 --> 00:27:29,250 YOU CAN INTEGRATE NEURAL 579 00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:30,651 TRANSMITTER INFORMATION. 580 00:27:30,651 --> 00:27:31,986 I'M AT SIX MINUTES SO I'LL SAY 581 00:27:31,986 --> 00:27:35,189 WE ALSO VALIDATED THIS IN AN DMT 582 00:27:35,189 --> 00:27:35,489 STUDY. 583 00:27:35,489 --> 00:27:41,395 WE SAW A PERSISTENT ENERGY 584 00:27:41,395 --> 00:27:42,897 CORRELATED WITH ENERGY AND 585 00:27:42,897 --> 00:27:43,564 PERSISTENT ACCEPTANCE SO I'LL 586 00:27:43,564 --> 00:27:53,774 STOP THERE. 587 00:27:57,511 --> 00:27:59,146 >> THANK YOU, AMY. 588 00:27:59,146 --> 00:28:04,552 THOSE ARE FANTASTIC EXAMPLES 589 00:28:04,552 --> 00:28:06,020 MUCH WEAVING THE THEORY 590 00:28:06,020 --> 00:28:08,122 MODELLING AND MEASUREMENTS WE 591 00:28:08,122 --> 00:28:10,391 CAN PERFORM. 592 00:28:10,391 --> 00:28:18,833 THE NEXT SPEAKER IS DR. SHINE. 593 00:28:18,833 --> 00:28:19,500 >> ALL RIGHT. 594 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,804 CAN YOU SEE THAT? 595 00:28:23,804 --> 00:28:30,111 YES. 596 00:28:30,111 --> 00:28:32,279 >> AWESOME. 597 00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:34,548 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. 598 00:28:34,548 --> 00:28:35,816 MY NAME IS MAC. 599 00:28:35,816 --> 00:28:36,851 I'M SPEAKING TO YOU FROM THE 600 00:28:36,851 --> 00:28:39,653 DARK UNDER SIDE OF THE WORLD IN 601 00:28:39,653 --> 00:28:40,821 AUSTRALIA WHERE IT'S JUST PAST 602 00:28:40,821 --> 00:28:50,131 MIDNIGHT SO APOLOGIES IF I SLUR 603 00:28:50,131 --> 00:28:51,732 MY WORDS ORDER THROW IN SWEAR 604 00:28:51,732 --> 00:28:53,100 WORDS AND PLEASED TO PRESENT 605 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:54,568 SOME OF OUR WORK. 606 00:28:54,568 --> 00:28:57,338 WE ARE DOING MODELS EXACTLY LIKE 607 00:28:57,338 --> 00:28:58,472 THE KINDS YOU JUST HEARD ABOUT 608 00:28:58,472 --> 00:29:00,341 THE DIGITAL TWINS BUT USING 609 00:29:00,341 --> 00:29:02,777 MODELS FRAMED AT THE SAME SCALE 610 00:29:02,777 --> 00:29:04,779 THINKING ABOUT THAT MACRO SCALE 611 00:29:04,779 --> 00:29:06,680 ORGANIZATION AND TRYING TO 612 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,382 UNDERSTAND WHAT WE CALL THE 613 00:29:08,382 --> 00:29:10,951 SYSTEMS LEVEL ORGANIZATION OF 614 00:29:10,951 --> 00:29:11,519 THE BRAIN. 615 00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:14,321 AND SO I THINK ONE THING THAT IS 616 00:29:14,321 --> 00:29:16,123 ABUNDANTLY CLEAR WHEN WE LOOK AT 617 00:29:16,123 --> 00:29:18,492 THE NEUROSCIENCE FROM AFAR AND 618 00:29:18,492 --> 00:29:22,096 ZOOM OUT IS THAT WE ARE STILL EN 619 00:29:22,096 --> 00:29:23,998 OUR INFANCY AND TRYING TO MAP 620 00:29:23,998 --> 00:29:26,267 THE BRAIN IN FRONT OF US IN THE 621 00:29:26,267 --> 00:29:29,303 RIGHT WAY AND YOU SEE A TON OF 622 00:29:29,303 --> 00:29:32,706 BEAUTIFUL AT WHAT WE CALL THE 623 00:29:32,706 --> 00:29:34,008 MICROSCOPIC SCALE AND INDIVIDUAL 624 00:29:34,008 --> 00:29:35,242 NEURONS OR POPULATIONS OF 625 00:29:35,242 --> 00:29:37,211 NEURONS RECORDED WITH SOME OF 626 00:29:37,211 --> 00:29:40,081 THESE COOL NEW TECHNIQUES AND 627 00:29:40,081 --> 00:29:42,383 CALCIUM ENERGIES AND PHOTON 628 00:29:42,383 --> 00:29:43,951 IMAGES TO GIVING A RICH DETAILED 629 00:29:43,951 --> 00:29:47,888 UNDERSTANDING OF THE ANATOMY OF 630 00:29:47,888 --> 00:29:50,858 THE BRAIN AND ARE FORCED TO TAKE 631 00:29:50,858 --> 00:29:53,294 THE TELESCOPE AND USE WHOLE 632 00:29:53,294 --> 00:29:59,033 BRAIN IMAGING AND MEG AND 633 00:29:59,033 --> 00:30:00,267 FUNCTIONAL MRI AND THE TRICKY 634 00:30:00,267 --> 00:30:02,536 PART IS THE DATA YOU COLLECT AT 635 00:30:02,536 --> 00:30:03,537 DIFFERENT SCALES OFTEN LOOKS 636 00:30:03,537 --> 00:30:05,039 DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER AND 637 00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:07,575 IT'S DIFFICULT TO MAKE STRONG 638 00:30:07,575 --> 00:30:08,809 CONNECTION BETWEEN ONE OF THE 639 00:30:08,809 --> 00:30:10,744 BEAUTIFUL CAUSAL WORK DONE AT 640 00:30:10,744 --> 00:30:12,680 THE MICROSCALE AND THE EMERGENT 641 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,218 PROPERTIES WE SEE WHEN WE 642 00:30:17,218 --> 00:30:18,385 MEASURE MASS NEURAL ACTIVITY. 643 00:30:18,385 --> 00:30:25,059 TO MAKE PROGRESS ON THE FRONT 644 00:30:25,059 --> 00:30:27,228 AND WE THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT THE 645 00:30:27,228 --> 00:30:29,163 ORGANIZATION BRAIN AND THEN TRY 646 00:30:29,163 --> 00:30:32,833 TO MAP WHAT WE SEE TO THE NEURAL 647 00:30:32,833 --> 00:30:34,368 IMAGING SCALE AND THE WHOLE 648 00:30:34,368 --> 00:30:36,270 BRAIN SCALE AND THE WAY WE DO 649 00:30:36,270 --> 00:30:39,507 THAT IS PUT COMPUTATIONAL MODELS 650 00:30:39,507 --> 00:30:41,976 AND BIO PHYSICAL MODELS AND TRY 651 00:30:41,976 --> 00:30:42,643 TO BRIDGE ACROSS THE DIFFERENT 652 00:30:42,643 --> 00:30:46,147 SCALES. 653 00:30:46,147 --> 00:30:47,948 SO SO WHEN YOU COME AS AN 654 00:30:47,948 --> 00:30:50,651 OUTSIDER I HAVE A BACKGROUND IN 655 00:30:50,651 --> 00:30:52,219 MEDICINE RATHER IN PHYSICS, WHEN 656 00:30:52,219 --> 00:30:54,155 YOU COME IN AS AN OUTSIDER AS 657 00:30:54,155 --> 00:30:56,090 CHRIS MENTIONED AT THE START 658 00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:58,092 MODELLING CAN SEEM INTIMIDATING 659 00:30:58,092 --> 00:31:00,461 AND IT CAN EVEN BE TO PEOPLE 660 00:31:00,461 --> 00:31:02,429 THAT WILL ARE CAREERISTS IN 661 00:31:02,429 --> 00:31:04,398 THESE DIFFERENT FIELDS. 662 00:31:04,398 --> 00:31:07,868 I THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO THINK 663 00:31:07,868 --> 00:31:10,337 WHAT MODELS ARE OUT THERE AND A 664 00:31:10,337 --> 00:31:13,474 SIMPLE WAY TO PARS THINGS AT THE 665 00:31:13,474 --> 00:31:14,575 START IS TO THINK WHETHER THE 666 00:31:14,575 --> 00:31:16,710 MODEL IS ATTEMPTING TO HAVE RICH 667 00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:19,647 ANATOMICAL DATA AND TRY TO MIMIC 668 00:31:19,647 --> 00:31:23,751 EVERY TYPE OF CELL IN THE 669 00:31:23,751 --> 00:31:28,255 CORTICO THALAMIC LOOP AND THE 670 00:31:28,255 --> 00:31:29,857 PROBABILITY CONNECTIONS IN THAT 671 00:31:29,857 --> 00:31:34,028 SECTOR -- CIRCUIT APPROACH AND 672 00:31:34,028 --> 00:31:37,464 HERE WE MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING 673 00:31:37,464 --> 00:31:40,568 LIKE THE FAMOUS ICING MODEL OF 674 00:31:40,568 --> 00:31:43,437 MAGNETISM IT'S A BIT LIKE A 675 00:31:43,437 --> 00:31:44,805 BRAIN AND THE BRAIN NEURON 676 00:31:44,805 --> 00:31:46,740 FIRING AND THE BLUE MAY BE THE 677 00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:47,441 BRAIN NOT FIRING. 678 00:31:47,441 --> 00:31:50,211 HERE WE HAVE GOOD CONTROL OVER 679 00:31:50,211 --> 00:31:51,345 MATHEMATICS BUT IT'S NOT LIKE 680 00:31:51,345 --> 00:31:51,779 THE BRAIN. 681 00:31:51,779 --> 00:31:53,647 IT'S HELPFUL TO THINK OF THE 682 00:31:53,647 --> 00:31:55,683 BENEFITS AND COSTS OF EACH OF 683 00:31:55,683 --> 00:31:58,786 THESE DIFFERENT TYPES. 684 00:31:58,786 --> 00:32:02,256 IN THE ANATOMICAL CASE WE HAVE 685 00:32:02,256 --> 00:32:06,527 EXPLICIT NEURAL ANATOMY AND WHAT 686 00:32:06,527 --> 00:32:07,895 SOME OF THE CONS AND THERE'S 687 00:32:07,895 --> 00:32:09,730 NUMEROUS PARAMETERS AND IT'S 688 00:32:09,730 --> 00:32:15,869 REALLY DIFFICULT TO DRAW LINKS 689 00:32:15,869 --> 00:32:18,672 TO CLINICAL IMAGING. 690 00:32:18,672 --> 00:32:20,174 INTERPRETABLE MATHEMATICALLY YOU 691 00:32:20,174 --> 00:32:22,343 CAN OFTEN GET ANALYTICAL 692 00:32:22,343 --> 00:32:24,211 SOLUTIONS AND PUSH THE 693 00:32:24,211 --> 00:32:26,380 MATHEMATICS AROUND DEEPLY AND 694 00:32:26,380 --> 00:32:27,848 UNDERSTAND AND SCALE THEM. 695 00:32:27,848 --> 00:32:30,618 ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THE MODELS 696 00:32:30,618 --> 00:32:33,554 OFTEN DON'T MATCH TO THE 697 00:32:33,554 --> 00:32:43,430 COMPLEXITY OF NEURAL ANAT -- 698 00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:44,131 ANATOMY. 699 00:32:44,131 --> 00:32:47,301 AND EYE -- 700 00:32:49,737 --> 00:32:52,506 AND A TRADE-OFF IS TO USE THE 701 00:32:52,506 --> 00:32:54,241 LURE OF RANDOMNESS TO OUR 702 00:32:54,241 --> 00:32:55,509 ADVANTAGE. 703 00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:57,878 WITH CAN TAKE AN INDIVIDUAL 704 00:32:57,878 --> 00:32:59,747 FIRING OF A LITTLE NEURON ON THE 705 00:32:59,747 --> 00:33:00,648 LEFT AND IMAGINE THE AMOUNT OF 706 00:33:00,648 --> 00:33:02,483 CURRENT WE HAVE TO INJECT IN THE 707 00:33:02,483 --> 00:33:05,286 NEURON TO GET IT TO SPIKE AT 708 00:33:05,286 --> 00:33:05,452 ALL. 709 00:33:05,452 --> 00:33:08,222 WE KNOW FROM OUR UNDER GRADUATE 710 00:33:08,222 --> 00:33:10,324 NEUROSCIENCE IT TAKES A BIT TO 711 00:33:10,324 --> 00:33:12,926 GET PAST THE FIRING POTENTIAL IT 712 00:33:12,926 --> 00:33:16,363 THEN GETS TO ITS CEILING. 713 00:33:16,363 --> 00:33:17,197 IF WE TAKE THE SIMPLEST 714 00:33:17,197 --> 00:33:19,333 ASSUMPTION A GROUP OF NEURONS WE 715 00:33:19,333 --> 00:33:20,701 HAVE AT SOME SCALE IS RANDOM FOR 716 00:33:20,701 --> 00:33:22,102 ONE ANOTHER AND THIS IS 717 00:33:22,102 --> 00:33:23,237 OBVIOUSLY AN ASSUMPTION THAT 718 00:33:23,237 --> 00:33:24,338 COMES WITH SOME CAVEATS IF WE 719 00:33:24,338 --> 00:33:27,975 MAKE THAT WE CAN ASSUME THAT 720 00:33:27,975 --> 00:33:29,810 VARIABLE THAT IS NOW SMOOTHED 721 00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:32,413 OUT AND WE ESSENTIALLY GET BACK 722 00:33:32,413 --> 00:33:34,715 THIS SIGMOID MARKER YOU OFTEN 723 00:33:34,715 --> 00:33:37,217 SEE A TON IN THE NEURAL MASS 724 00:33:37,217 --> 00:33:37,885 MODELLING LITERATURE. 725 00:33:37,885 --> 00:33:39,753 NOW WE CAN MESS AROUND WITH A 726 00:33:39,753 --> 00:33:40,754 WELL KNOWN FUNCTION ON THE RIGHT 727 00:33:40,754 --> 00:33:44,091 AND SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HOW THE 728 00:33:44,091 --> 00:33:46,093 MASS ACTS OF THE NERVOUS SYSTEM 729 00:33:46,093 --> 00:33:47,328 MAY HAVE WORKED WITH THE 730 00:33:47,328 --> 00:33:47,728 ASSUMPTIONS. 731 00:33:47,728 --> 00:33:49,196 THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE BEST 732 00:33:49,196 --> 00:33:50,631 ASSUMPTION BUT IT GIVES US A 733 00:33:50,631 --> 00:33:51,965 TICKET TO THE GAME TO START 734 00:33:51,965 --> 00:33:53,267 MAKING CHANGES AT THIS MORE 735 00:33:53,267 --> 00:33:56,470 ABSTRACT LEVEL BUT IN A WAY THAT 736 00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:58,906 HAS SOME NEURAL PLAUSIBILITY. 737 00:33:58,906 --> 00:34:01,475 LET ME WALK YOU THROUGH ONE CASE 738 00:34:01,475 --> 00:34:01,675 STUDY. 739 00:34:01,675 --> 00:34:05,779 THIS IS ONE OF THE COOLEST 740 00:34:05,779 --> 00:34:06,680 RESULTS I'VE SEEN IN THE LAST 741 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,885 FEW YEARS AND WE WENT IN AND 742 00:34:11,885 --> 00:34:16,190 ANESTHETIZED A NUMBER OF MACAQUE 743 00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:18,659 MONKEYS AND PUT THIS IN THE 744 00:34:18,659 --> 00:34:22,596 CENTRAL LATERAL THALAMUS AND 745 00:34:22,596 --> 00:34:23,430 STIMULATED WITH 50 HERTZ 746 00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:25,599 STIMULATION AND WAKE THE ANIMAL 747 00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,168 UP FROM ANESTHESIA WHICH IS COOL 748 00:34:28,168 --> 00:34:31,872 AND MAKE CHANGES IN THE 749 00:34:31,872 --> 00:34:33,240 ELECTROPHYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES 750 00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:35,776 FROM THE MACAQUE AND WE WERE 751 00:34:35,776 --> 00:34:38,545 INTERESTED WHETHER WE CAN 752 00:34:38,545 --> 00:34:41,115 RECREATE THIS IN A NEURONAL MASS 753 00:34:41,115 --> 00:34:44,051 MODEL AND WENT TO AN OVERLOOKED 754 00:34:44,051 --> 00:34:47,020 FEATURE OF THE THALAMIC ANATOMY 755 00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:48,756 AND THE THALAMUS CONTAINS TWO 756 00:34:48,756 --> 00:34:51,291 TYPES OF PROJECTIONS TO THE 757 00:34:51,291 --> 00:34:52,793 CEREBRAL CORTEX THE ONE IS ON 758 00:34:52,793 --> 00:34:54,628 THE CORE TYPE. 759 00:34:54,628 --> 00:34:57,731 YOU CAN IMAGINE THE RETINAL CELL 760 00:34:57,731 --> 00:35:00,434 HITTING AND PASSING IT ON TO THE 761 00:35:00,434 --> 00:35:01,335 CEREBRAL CORTEX. 762 00:35:01,335 --> 00:35:06,140 THE AREA STIMULATED IS MORE RICH 763 00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:10,177 IN THE MATRIX TYPE AND PROJECTS 764 00:35:10,177 --> 00:35:14,815 TO THE GRANULAR OF THE CORTEX. 765 00:35:14,815 --> 00:35:16,183 THE COOL THING IS WE CAN BUILD 766 00:35:16,183 --> 00:35:19,086 OF MODEL OF THIS AND TAKE A 767 00:35:19,086 --> 00:35:21,989 NEURAL MASS MODEL BUILT ON THE 768 00:35:21,989 --> 00:35:24,491 CORTICO THALAMIC LOOP AND WIRE 769 00:35:24,491 --> 00:35:27,661 IN THIS POPULATION AND THEN GO 770 00:35:27,661 --> 00:35:31,131 IN THIS MODEL AND LOOKS LIKE 771 00:35:31,131 --> 00:35:33,801 ANESTHETIZED AND WAKE IT UP AND 772 00:35:33,801 --> 00:35:36,203 RECOVER DIFFERENT SIGNATURES WE 773 00:35:36,203 --> 00:35:37,638 SEE IN THE COMMUNITY AND PUSH 774 00:35:37,638 --> 00:35:39,540 THE MODEL AND FIGURE OUT WHY IT 775 00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:44,077 DOES WHAT IT DOES AND TURNS OUT 776 00:35:44,077 --> 00:35:45,779 STIMULATING THESE AS YOU WAKE UP 777 00:35:45,779 --> 00:35:46,847 THE REST OF THE BRAIN MORE 778 00:35:46,847 --> 00:35:49,450 QUICKLY THAN YOU CAN IN THE 779 00:35:49,450 --> 00:35:49,817 CORTEX. 780 00:35:49,817 --> 00:35:50,884 THE REASON PEOPLE IN THE 781 00:35:50,884 --> 00:35:53,654 COMMUNITY MIGHT BE INTERESTED IS 782 00:35:53,654 --> 00:35:56,657 IT TURNS OUT IN PARKINSON'S 783 00:35:56,657 --> 00:35:59,860 DISEASE THEY CONTACT THESE TYPES 784 00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:04,598 IN THE ANTERIOR VENTRAL NUCLEUS 785 00:36:04,598 --> 00:36:06,700 AND CAN COMBINE THE PROBES IN 786 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:08,769 THIS CASES AND COME WITH THE 787 00:36:08,769 --> 00:36:09,803 ASSUMPTIONS WE MAKE BUT THEY'RE 788 00:36:09,803 --> 00:36:11,572 INTERESTING BECAUSE WE CAN START 789 00:36:11,572 --> 00:36:13,106 TO MAKE PROGRESS UNDERSTANDING 790 00:36:13,106 --> 00:36:16,510 THE LINKS BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT 791 00:36:16,510 --> 00:36:16,743 SCALES. 792 00:36:16,743 --> 00:36:17,644 THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WE'LL BE 793 00:36:17,644 --> 00:36:18,712 HAPPY TO CHAT IN THE DISCUSSION. 794 00:36:18,712 --> 00:36:19,646 >> THANK YOU. 795 00:36:19,646 --> 00:36:22,349 THAT WAS GREAT. 796 00:36:22,349 --> 00:36:26,520 I THINK IT ILLUSTRATES FROM THE 797 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:27,187 PRAGMATIC STANDPOINT SOMETIMES 798 00:36:27,187 --> 00:36:31,024 THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, WHAT 799 00:36:31,024 --> 00:36:33,627 MODEL SHOULD I USE IS THE 800 00:36:33,627 --> 00:36:35,195 SIMPLEST ONE I CAN FIND. 801 00:36:35,195 --> 00:36:37,498 BUT YOU SACRIFICE THINGS IN THAT 802 00:36:37,498 --> 00:36:40,901 AND SORT OF MISS THE OPPORTUNITY 803 00:36:40,901 --> 00:36:42,536 TO EXPLORE UNDERLYING BEHAVIOR 804 00:36:42,536 --> 00:36:44,404 AND DETAILS. 805 00:36:44,404 --> 00:36:47,875 THANKS VERY MUCH. 806 00:36:47,875 --> 00:36:53,814 THAT WAS GREAT. 807 00:36:53,814 --> 00:36:59,286 OUR LAST SPEAKER IS DR 808 00:36:59,286 --> 00:36:59,887 DR. PETERCHEV. 809 00:36:59,887 --> 00:37:03,123 >> HELLO AND THANK YOU FOR THE 810 00:37:03,123 --> 00:37:03,423 INVITATION. 811 00:37:03,423 --> 00:37:06,293 I WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE MOST 812 00:37:06,293 --> 00:37:11,798 GRANULAR LEVEL SO FAR WITH 813 00:37:11,798 --> 00:37:13,166 MODELLING. 814 00:37:13,166 --> 00:37:15,669 WE HAVE THE INPUT SIDE OF TRANS 815 00:37:15,669 --> 00:37:17,671 CRANIAL STIMULATION AND ELECTRIC 816 00:37:17,671 --> 00:37:22,309 AND MAGNETIC STIMULATION. 817 00:37:22,309 --> 00:37:25,145 AND THIS IS APPROVED FOR VARIOUS 818 00:37:25,145 --> 00:37:28,115 THERAPEUTIC INDICATIONS 819 00:37:28,115 --> 00:37:31,385 INCLUDING DEPRESSION, OBSESSIVE 820 00:37:31,385 --> 00:37:34,955 COMPULSIVE DISORDER AND 821 00:37:34,955 --> 00:37:36,390 MIGRAINES AND RESEARCHED FOR 822 00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:40,794 BASIC AND CLINICAL APPLICATIONS. 823 00:37:40,794 --> 00:37:42,963 SO HOW DO THEY WORK? 824 00:37:42,963 --> 00:37:46,066 HOW CAN WE LEVERAGE THIS 825 00:37:46,066 --> 00:37:53,907 UNDERSTANDING TO GET TO NEW 826 00:37:53,907 --> 00:37:54,174 PARADIGMS? 827 00:37:54,174 --> 00:37:55,576 AND GOING FROM THE BUILDING 828 00:37:55,576 --> 00:37:57,210 MODELS AND UNDERSTANDING AND OF 829 00:37:57,210 --> 00:37:59,713 COURSE THE FIRST LEVEL OF 830 00:37:59,713 --> 00:38:00,881 INFORMATION IS WHERE YOU PLACE 831 00:38:00,881 --> 00:38:03,984 THE COIL OR ELECTRODES AND WHAT 832 00:38:03,984 --> 00:38:06,420 CURRENT YOU SEND THROUGH THEM. 833 00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:08,889 THIS ALREADY HAS EXPLANATORY 834 00:38:08,889 --> 00:38:12,092 POWER AND YOU GET THE FINGER 835 00:38:12,092 --> 00:38:12,326 TWITCH. 836 00:38:12,326 --> 00:38:15,095 HOWEVER IT STARTS TO GETS 837 00:38:15,095 --> 00:38:15,462 COMPLICATED. 838 00:38:15,462 --> 00:38:17,464 DEPENDING ON THE CHARACTERISTICS 839 00:38:17,464 --> 00:38:18,865 OF THE PULSE TO THE CORTEX YOU 840 00:38:18,865 --> 00:38:23,236 HAVE DIFFERENT RESPONSES. 841 00:38:23,236 --> 00:38:24,771 WE CAN START TO CREATE MODELS 842 00:38:24,771 --> 00:38:26,440 THAT REACH THE BRAIN BECAUSE 843 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,543 THERE'S THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT OF 844 00:38:29,543 --> 00:38:30,911 STIMULATION AND THIS CAN ADD 845 00:38:30,911 --> 00:38:32,379 MORE EXPLANATORY POWER. 846 00:38:32,379 --> 00:38:34,748 OF COURSE, WHAT REALLY MATTERS 847 00:38:34,748 --> 00:38:38,418 IS HOW THE ELECTRIC FIELD 848 00:38:38,418 --> 00:38:40,954 PRODUCES NEURONS IN THE CORTEX 849 00:38:40,954 --> 00:38:42,856 AND GET MORE EXPLANATORY POWER 850 00:38:42,856 --> 00:38:45,359 LY FROM THAT AS WELL. 851 00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:47,327 YOU CAN THINK OF THIS AS 852 00:38:47,327 --> 00:38:49,463 PERTURBATION TO THE LEVEL OF THE 853 00:38:49,463 --> 00:38:53,200 PULSE YOU SEND EXTERNALLY TO 854 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,034 PERTURBATIONS IN THE ELECTRIC 855 00:38:54,034 --> 00:38:55,869 FIELD AND NEURAL RECRUITMENT AND 856 00:38:55,869 --> 00:39:00,173 CAN KEEP GOING AND CAN HAVE 857 00:39:00,173 --> 00:39:01,208 PERTURBATIONS IN THE MICRO 858 00:39:01,208 --> 00:39:03,644 COLUMNS AND KEEP GOING AND LINK 859 00:39:03,644 --> 00:39:07,080 WITH ALL THESE BEAUTIFUL MODELS 860 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,715 MY COLLEAGUES JUST PRESENTED OF 861 00:39:08,715 --> 00:39:10,150 COURSE THERE'S CHALLENGES WITH 862 00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:10,350 THAT. 863 00:39:10,350 --> 00:39:13,553 THERE'S MORE AND MORE KNOWN IN A 864 00:39:13,553 --> 00:39:18,458 CERTAIN PARAMETER AND 865 00:39:18,458 --> 00:39:20,861 COMPUTATION COMPLEXITY. 866 00:39:20,861 --> 00:39:23,597 THIS FOR A WHOLE FIELD TO 867 00:39:23,597 --> 00:39:23,830 HANDLE. 868 00:39:23,830 --> 00:39:30,070 I WANTED TO SHOW A COUPLE 869 00:39:30,070 --> 00:39:36,276 EXAMPLES FROM OUR WORK. 870 00:39:36,276 --> 00:39:39,279 SO ONE VERY TRIVIAL ASPECT IS 871 00:39:39,279 --> 00:39:41,581 THE KIND OF MINUTIA OF THE DATA 872 00:39:41,581 --> 00:39:47,054 YOU FEED INTO THE MODELS. 873 00:39:47,054 --> 00:39:51,091 AND ONE I THINK SO INCREASE HAIR 874 00:39:51,091 --> 00:39:51,391 THICKNESS. 875 00:39:51,391 --> 00:39:56,363 AN EXTRA ONE ONE MILLIMETER OF 876 00:39:56,363 --> 00:39:59,132 HAIR THICKNESS INCREASES THE TMS 877 00:39:59,132 --> 00:40:00,500 IN THE BRAIN AND ON AVERAGE IT'S 878 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:04,271 2 MILLIMETERS WITH A PRETTY WIDE 879 00:40:04,271 --> 00:40:04,471 RANGE. 880 00:40:04,471 --> 00:40:07,741 SO WELL, WE NOW HAVE A TOOL TO 881 00:40:07,741 --> 00:40:10,677 MEASURE IT AND ADD TO OUR TMS 882 00:40:10,677 --> 00:40:11,645 MODELS. 883 00:40:11,645 --> 00:40:19,219 WE GO FROM EXPLAINING 27% WITH 884 00:40:19,219 --> 00:40:21,121 THE INDIVIDUAL THRESHOLDS TO 31% 885 00:40:21,121 --> 00:40:24,391 WHICH SOUND SMALL BUT IT'S 886 00:40:24,391 --> 00:40:26,259 REMARKABLE GIVEN HAIR THICKNESS 887 00:40:26,259 --> 00:40:31,832 ACCOUNTS FOR 10% OF THE COIL TO 888 00:40:31,832 --> 00:40:33,266 BRAIN DISTANCE. 889 00:40:33,266 --> 00:40:34,267 THEN GETTING IN THE BRAIN IT 890 00:40:34,267 --> 00:40:36,369 GETS MORE COMPLICATED. 891 00:40:36,369 --> 00:40:38,572 THERE YOU HAVE ALL KINDS OF 892 00:40:38,572 --> 00:40:40,407 NEURONS AND CORTICAL LAYERS AND 893 00:40:40,407 --> 00:40:44,344 SO ON AND CAN MAKE MODELS OF 894 00:40:44,344 --> 00:40:50,851 THESE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE 895 00:40:50,851 --> 00:40:52,052 ELECTRIC FIELD MODELS AND YOU 896 00:40:52,052 --> 00:40:53,620 CAN DO VALIDATION OF THESE BUT 897 00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:55,021 ALWAYS GOOD TO DO MORE. 898 00:40:55,021 --> 00:41:00,961 WHAT CAN WE DO ONCE WE HAVE THE 899 00:41:00,961 --> 00:41:01,394 MODELS? 900 00:41:01,394 --> 00:41:08,235 ONE INTERESTING EXAMPLE BUT 901 00:41:08,235 --> 00:41:10,103 CHANGE THE POLARITY OF THE 902 00:41:10,103 --> 00:41:10,303 FIELD. 903 00:41:10,303 --> 00:41:15,008 SAY YOU HAVE ONE PULSE FROM 904 00:41:15,008 --> 00:41:20,380 POSTERIOR TO INTERIOR IN THE 905 00:41:20,380 --> 00:41:23,617 CORTEX WHICH ACTIVATES THE 906 00:41:23,617 --> 00:41:25,418 MUSCLES IN THE HAND AND MEASURE 907 00:41:25,418 --> 00:41:27,854 THE FINGER TWITCHING AND HAVE 908 00:41:27,854 --> 00:41:29,923 ONE LATENCY AND THEN YOU CHANGE 909 00:41:29,923 --> 00:41:31,291 THE PULSE DIRECTION. 910 00:41:31,291 --> 00:41:32,392 NOTHING ELSE JUST THE POLARITY 911 00:41:32,392 --> 00:41:42,402 OF THE FIELD BASICALLY AND HAVE 912 00:41:42,402 --> 00:41:46,740 THE LONGER FINGER TWITCH. 913 00:41:46,740 --> 00:41:47,607 WE'RE ACTIVATING A DIFFERENT 914 00:41:47,607 --> 00:41:48,809 NEURAL POPULATION. 915 00:41:48,809 --> 00:41:50,143 MAYBE THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING 916 00:41:50,143 --> 00:41:52,012 BUT WE DON'T KNOW REALLY HOW IT 917 00:41:52,012 --> 00:41:54,347 HAPPENS AND CAN USE THE 918 00:41:54,347 --> 00:41:56,817 MULTI-SCALE MODELLING TO 919 00:41:56,817 --> 00:42:02,322 ACTUALLY EXPLAIN THAT 920 00:42:02,322 --> 00:42:07,060 PHENOMENON. 921 00:42:07,060 --> 00:42:11,898 YOU SEE THE CROSS SECTIONS AND 922 00:42:11,898 --> 00:42:16,369 YOU ACTIVATE MORE POSTERIOR 923 00:42:16,369 --> 00:42:22,108 NEURONS AND WITH AND THE OTHER 924 00:42:22,108 --> 00:42:28,582 YOU ACTIVATE MORE ANTEARIOR -- 925 00:42:28,582 --> 00:42:32,953 AN ANTERIOR DIRECTION AND YOU 926 00:42:32,953 --> 00:42:38,425 END UP WITH ACTIVATING MORE 927 00:42:38,425 --> 00:42:41,461 POSTERIOR NEURONS IN THE GYRUS 928 00:42:41,461 --> 00:42:46,900 AND MORE ANTERIOR WITH THE 929 00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:48,635 ANTERIOR-POSTERIOR PULSE. 930 00:42:48,635 --> 00:42:52,339 WE NOW FROM MORE INVASIVE 931 00:42:52,339 --> 00:42:53,406 NON-HUMAN PRIMATE THEY HAVE 932 00:42:53,406 --> 00:42:55,642 CONNECTS WITH THE SPINAL TRACT 933 00:42:55,642 --> 00:42:58,745 AND MORE INTERIOR NEURONS HAVE 934 00:42:58,745 --> 00:43:02,482 MORE INDIRECT CONNECTIONS. 935 00:43:02,482 --> 00:43:04,117 AND SO SIGNAL TRAVELS TO 936 00:43:04,117 --> 00:43:09,489 SYNAPSES BEFORE GOING TO THE 937 00:43:09,489 --> 00:43:15,462 CORTICAL SPINAL NEURONS DRIVING 938 00:43:15,462 --> 00:43:15,729 THE TRACK. 939 00:43:15,729 --> 00:43:19,466 WHY DOES IT MATTER? 940 00:43:19,466 --> 00:43:24,371 WELL, WITH THE APPLICATIONS OF 941 00:43:24,371 --> 00:43:27,841 MODULATION AND WHEN YOU 942 00:43:27,841 --> 00:43:28,808 STIMULATE REPEATEDLY WITH PULSES 943 00:43:28,808 --> 00:43:29,910 WITH DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS YOU 944 00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:32,846 CAN GET VERY DIFFERENT RESULTS. 945 00:43:32,846 --> 00:43:37,384 WITH T.A. PULSES YOU GET STRONG 946 00:43:37,384 --> 00:43:37,717 FACILITATION. 947 00:43:37,717 --> 00:43:39,853 WITH THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION YOU 948 00:43:39,853 --> 00:43:43,556 HAVE STRONG INHIBITION AND BY 949 00:43:43,556 --> 00:43:45,325 BASIC PULSES OF ALL DIRECTIONS 950 00:43:45,325 --> 00:43:47,727 YOU GET IN BETWEEN EFFECT. 951 00:43:47,727 --> 00:43:52,232 IT MATTERS FOR THE MODULATION. 952 00:43:52,232 --> 00:43:57,337 SO THIS ALSO STARTS OUR 953 00:43:57,337 --> 00:44:00,640 DISCUSSION AND HOW MULTI-SCALE 954 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:01,641 MODELLING INCLUDING COUPLING 955 00:44:01,641 --> 00:44:05,445 BETWEEN THE STIMULUS AND NEURAL 956 00:44:05,445 --> 00:44:06,279 ACTIVATION CAN HELP INCLUDING 957 00:44:06,279 --> 00:44:10,250 WITH MECHANISTIC INSIGHTS TO 958 00:44:10,250 --> 00:44:13,053 INFORM NOVEL PARADIGMING AND 959 00:44:13,053 --> 00:44:14,187 INDIVIDUALIZED DOSING 960 00:44:14,187 --> 00:44:18,158 POTENTIALLY AND COMPARE 961 00:44:18,158 --> 00:44:24,364 NON-INVASIVE WITH INVASIVE 962 00:44:24,364 --> 00:44:26,800 RESULTS AND USE MRI AND HAIR 963 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,236 THICKNESS AND MORE DYNAMICS AND 964 00:44:30,236 --> 00:44:33,473 OPPORTUNITY THAT I HOPE WE'LL 965 00:44:33,473 --> 00:44:36,376 ALL DISCUSS IT'S THE DATA AND 966 00:44:36,376 --> 00:44:39,212 THERE'S TRIVIAL ASPECTS THE 967 00:44:39,212 --> 00:44:39,679 LOW-HANGING FRUIT. 968 00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:42,115 JUST RECORD ALL THE STIMULATION 969 00:44:42,115 --> 00:44:43,616 PARAMETERS AND RECORD THE HAIR 970 00:44:43,616 --> 00:44:43,883 THICKNESS. 971 00:44:43,883 --> 00:44:46,453 LIKE ALL THIS MATTERS. 972 00:44:46,453 --> 00:44:47,988 DOCUMENT THAT TO MAKE SENSE OF 973 00:44:47,988 --> 00:44:49,889 THE EXPERIMENTAL DATA AND MODEL 974 00:44:49,889 --> 00:44:50,056 IT. 975 00:44:50,056 --> 00:44:52,592 SOME THINGS ARE EASIER AND IF WE 976 00:44:52,592 --> 00:44:54,394 HAVE ALL THE PIECES AND 977 00:44:54,394 --> 00:44:56,129 EVERYTHING IS RELATIVELY EASIER. 978 00:44:56,129 --> 00:44:58,064 IT'S HARDER BUT I THINK WHAT 979 00:44:58,064 --> 00:45:01,668 WE'LL GET IN THE FUTURE IS 980 00:45:01,668 --> 00:45:03,269 INCORPORATING UNDERSTANDING OF 981 00:45:03,269 --> 00:45:06,306 THE NEURAL RESPONSE TO EXTEND 982 00:45:06,306 --> 00:45:11,044 NEURAL MODELLING AND THE 983 00:45:11,044 --> 00:45:16,316 PRECISION OF METHODS LIKE THE 984 00:45:16,316 --> 00:45:19,719 BRAIN SHIFTS DOING MRI SCANS AND 985 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,821 THE MORPHOLOGY ALL COMPLEX PUT 986 00:45:21,821 --> 00:45:23,023 THERE'S DATA COMING AND 987 00:45:23,023 --> 00:45:23,923 VALIDATION IS VERY IMPORTANT. 988 00:45:23,923 --> 00:45:27,727 THERE HAS TO BE MORE AND MORE OF 989 00:45:27,727 --> 00:45:27,927 THAT. 990 00:45:27,927 --> 00:45:30,864 AND DOING NON-INVASIVE 991 00:45:30,864 --> 00:45:32,265 STIMULATION AND DATA SHARING AND 992 00:45:32,265 --> 00:45:35,068 CURATION IS IMPORTANT TO ENABLE 993 00:45:35,068 --> 00:45:35,468 MODELLING STUDIES. 994 00:45:35,468 --> 00:45:37,704 THANK YOU. 995 00:45:37,704 --> 00:45:42,742 >> THANK YOU. 996 00:45:42,742 --> 00:45:45,678 I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS YOUR 997 00:45:45,678 --> 00:45:47,814 TALK HIGHLIGHTS IS THAT IN THESE 998 00:45:47,814 --> 00:45:50,083 AREAS OF RESEARCH WE'RE OFTEN 999 00:45:50,083 --> 00:45:51,151 INTERESTED IN THE TEMPORAL 1000 00:45:51,151 --> 00:45:53,119 DYNAMICS AND HOW THINGS UNFOLD 1001 00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:54,954 OVER TIME RANGING FROM 1002 00:45:54,954 --> 00:45:57,023 MILLISECONDS TO SECONDS TO 1003 00:45:57,023 --> 00:46:00,093 MINUTES, HOURS, DAYS, WEEKS, 1004 00:46:00,093 --> 00:46:00,326 MONTHS. 1005 00:46:00,326 --> 00:46:02,529 AND WHAT CAN BE INSTRUCTIVE IN 1006 00:46:02,529 --> 00:46:05,265 THE MODELS IS IF YOU WANT TO 1007 00:46:05,265 --> 00:46:07,467 LOOK OVER SOME TIME SCALE OUT TO 1008 00:46:07,467 --> 00:46:10,904 SECONDS OR MINUTES OR HOURS OR 1009 00:46:10,904 --> 00:46:13,273 LONGER YOU NEED TO HAVE 1010 00:46:13,273 --> 00:46:15,408 MECHANISMS IN YOUR MODEL THAT 1011 00:46:15,408 --> 00:46:16,543 WORK OVER THOSE TIME SCALES. 1012 00:46:16,543 --> 00:46:19,179 AND IF YOU DON'T, THEN IT'S AN 1013 00:46:19,179 --> 00:46:21,147 OPPORTUNITY TO THINK OH, WHAT IS 1014 00:46:21,147 --> 00:46:22,048 IT MISSING. 1015 00:46:22,048 --> 00:46:25,452 WE GET TO ASSEMBLE THESE MODELS 1016 00:46:25,452 --> 00:46:27,754 AND PUT IN THE FEATURES WE WANT 1017 00:46:27,754 --> 00:46:31,458 AND IT CAN OFTEN HIGHLIGHT 1018 00:46:31,458 --> 00:46:32,292 POTENTIAL NEW MECHANISMS THAT 1019 00:46:32,292 --> 00:46:33,993 MIGHT HELP THAT. 1020 00:46:33,993 --> 00:46:38,631 SO I WANT TO NOW JUST OPEN IT UP 1021 00:46:38,631 --> 00:46:43,636 TO THE PANELISTS FOR QUESTION 1022 00:46:43,636 --> 00:46:53,880 AND DISCUSSION. 1023 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:54,914 I DON'T KNOW. 1024 00:46:54,914 --> 00:46:58,618 SOMETIMES I DON'T ALWAYS NOTICE 1025 00:46:58,618 --> 00:47:02,388 THE HANDS IF PEOPLE ARE RAISING 1026 00:47:02,388 --> 00:47:03,256 THEIR HANDS. 1027 00:47:03,256 --> 00:47:05,425 >> I WOULD SAY THAT I THINK IT'S 1028 00:47:05,425 --> 00:47:07,026 REALLY FASCINATING SEEING ALL 1029 00:47:07,026 --> 00:47:11,898 THE MODELS AT DIFFERENT SCALES. 1030 00:47:11,898 --> 00:47:14,667 I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES TO 1031 00:47:14,667 --> 00:47:17,904 COUPLE THEM. 1032 00:47:17,904 --> 00:47:20,273 I WAS SHOWING SEVERAL STAGES OF 1033 00:47:20,273 --> 00:47:22,775 BOTTOM UP, GROUND UP MULTI-SCALE 1034 00:47:22,775 --> 00:47:25,111 MODELS AND THAT DASH ARROW 1035 00:47:25,111 --> 00:47:29,048 DIRECTLY LINKS WITH MODELS 1036 00:47:29,048 --> 00:47:30,350 SHOWED BY MY COLLEAGUES AND CAN 1037 00:47:30,350 --> 00:47:35,889 BE FASCINATING TO DO THAT AND GO 1038 00:47:35,889 --> 00:47:38,424 TO THE MACROSCOPIC SCALE PIECING 1039 00:47:38,424 --> 00:47:41,928 THE MODELS TOGETHER AND THEN 1040 00:47:41,928 --> 00:47:43,129 LOOK AT THE TIMEOUTS AND DO IT 1041 00:47:43,129 --> 00:47:44,964 IN HEALTHY SUBJECTS. 1042 00:47:44,964 --> 00:47:47,834 IT'S VERY SAFE AND USED 1043 00:47:47,834 --> 00:47:55,441 CLINICALLY AND HIGH RELEVANCE SO 1044 00:47:55,441 --> 00:48:00,113 THEN GO FROM STIMULUS AND 1045 00:48:00,113 --> 00:48:02,582 COMPARE THIS EXPERIMENTAL DATA 1046 00:48:02,582 --> 00:48:12,225 LIKE IMAGING AND fMRI AND 1047 00:48:12,225 --> 00:48:16,329 OPPORTUNITIES FOR MULTI-SCALE 1048 00:48:16,329 --> 00:48:17,897 MODELLING. 1049 00:48:17,897 --> 00:48:21,768 >> ANDREAS HAS HAS A HAND UP. 1050 00:48:21,768 --> 00:48:28,575 >> IT WAS A FANTASTIC PANEL. 1051 00:48:28,575 --> 00:48:31,211 >> ONE QUESTION ABOUT I THINK WE 1052 00:48:31,211 --> 00:48:32,011 HAD SIMILAR DISCUSSION YESTERDAY 1053 00:48:32,011 --> 00:48:37,283 BUT YOU ARE THE EXPERTS ON THIS 1054 00:48:37,283 --> 00:48:40,119 WITH THE IDEA OF WHAT TYPE OF 1055 00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:42,922 ANSWERS WILL WE GET AS A LOWER 1056 00:48:42,922 --> 00:48:46,693 HANGING FRUIT USING DYNAMICAL 1057 00:48:46,693 --> 00:48:48,394 SYSTEMS AND WILL THEY BE IN THE 1058 00:48:48,394 --> 00:48:51,664 FORM OF WE HAVE GOOD MODELS TO 1059 00:48:51,664 --> 00:48:53,433 SIMULATE THINGS OR CAN MAYBE 1060 00:48:53,433 --> 00:48:56,169 CONDENSE THEM DOWN YOU THINK IN 1061 00:48:56,169 --> 00:48:58,871 THE FUTURE LIKE UP REGULATE THE 1062 00:48:58,871 --> 00:49:00,974 CIRCUIT OR THAT AND WONDERING 1063 00:49:00,974 --> 00:49:03,810 WHAT ARE WE HOPING FOR IN THE 1064 00:49:03,810 --> 00:49:06,279 NEARER FUTURE AND MAYBE IN THE 1065 00:49:06,279 --> 00:49:06,946 LONGER FUTURE. 1066 00:49:06,946 --> 00:49:07,947 WE'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS 1067 00:49:07,947 --> 00:49:14,087 ON THIS. 1068 00:49:14,087 --> 00:49:24,430 >> NICE TO SEE YOU. 1069 00:49:25,565 --> 00:49:29,035 WE ARE COLLABORATING AND I THINK 1070 00:49:29,035 --> 00:49:35,942 DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION IS A GOOD 1071 00:49:35,942 --> 00:49:36,242 OPPORTUNITY. 1072 00:49:36,242 --> 00:49:38,311 ALSO THE CONSIDERATIONS ARE NOT 1073 00:49:38,311 --> 00:49:40,113 SO DRAMATIC. 1074 00:49:40,113 --> 00:49:42,682 SO BECAUSE YOU USUALLY DO THE 1075 00:49:42,682 --> 00:49:46,519 MANUAL TUNING ANYWAYS AND SIDE 1076 00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:51,624 EFFECTS AND THERE'S NOT THE 1077 00:49:51,624 --> 00:49:54,327 DANGER OF DOING THAT. 1078 00:49:54,327 --> 00:49:56,696 FOR ME IT'S A LOW HANGING FRUIT 1079 00:49:56,696 --> 00:49:59,832 AND I'M HAPPY ABOUT OUR 1080 00:49:59,832 --> 00:50:02,735 COLLABORATION AND WORKING WITH 1081 00:50:02,735 --> 00:50:04,771 CONTACT TO CLINICAL GROUPS AND 1082 00:50:04,771 --> 00:50:06,639 GETTING THE DATA SO THIS IS 1083 00:50:06,639 --> 00:50:07,674 FANTASTIC AND COMBINING WITH 1084 00:50:07,674 --> 00:50:13,946 WHAT YOU HAVE DONE SO FAR AND 1085 00:50:13,946 --> 00:50:21,087 LOOKING AT THE PREDICTION OF THE 1086 00:50:21,087 --> 00:50:23,556 OUTCOME AND BASED ON STAFFIC CON 1087 00:50:23,556 --> 00:50:25,425 EKSZ AND INCLUDE THE DYNAMICS 1088 00:50:25,425 --> 00:50:27,493 AND SEE IF IT'S BENEFICIAL FOR 1089 00:50:27,493 --> 00:50:28,494 THE PATIENT AND MAYBE NOT WE'LL 1090 00:50:28,494 --> 00:50:33,066 FIND IT OUT. 1091 00:50:33,066 --> 00:50:40,373 >> THANK YOU. 1092 00:50:40,373 --> 00:50:42,942 I VIKTOR HAD HIS HAND UP FIRST. 1093 00:50:42,942 --> 00:50:43,876 >> THANK YOU. 1094 00:50:43,876 --> 00:50:45,411 HELLO EVERYONE. 1095 00:50:45,411 --> 00:50:47,013 THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE 1096 00:50:47,013 --> 00:50:51,517 LOVELY PRESENTATIONS ALL FOUR OF 1097 00:50:51,517 --> 00:50:52,151 YOU. 1098 00:50:52,151 --> 00:50:57,190 YOU WERE ALL TALKING OR 1099 00:50:57,190 --> 00:51:05,898 ACKNOWLEDGING THE MULTISCALE OF 1100 00:51:05,898 --> 00:51:11,904 THE BRAIN AND THERE'S ONE ASPECT 1101 00:51:11,904 --> 00:51:13,373 THAT GENERATES LOTS OF ISSUES 1102 00:51:13,373 --> 00:51:19,412 FOR ALL OF US IN TERMS OF MODEL 1103 00:51:19,412 --> 00:51:21,547 VALIDATION AND IS THE 1104 00:51:21,547 --> 00:51:23,850 MULTI-SCALE NATURE OF THE BRAIN. 1105 00:51:23,850 --> 00:51:26,953 EVERY MULTI-SCALE SYSTEM HAS AS 1106 00:51:26,953 --> 00:51:31,858 A CONSEQUENCE DUE TO THE 1107 00:51:31,858 --> 00:51:36,963 MODELLING NATURE HAS THE 1108 00:51:36,963 --> 00:51:39,665 PROPERTY OF THE GENEROUSITY OF 1109 00:51:39,665 --> 00:51:43,836 THE SYSTEM ON ONE HAND AND ON 1110 00:51:43,836 --> 00:51:45,905 ONE SIDE DEGENEROUSITY IS GOOD 1111 00:51:45,905 --> 00:51:47,507 AND YOU CAN SHOW THIS 1112 00:51:47,507 --> 00:51:47,874 MATHEMATICALLY. 1113 00:51:47,874 --> 00:51:53,880 ON THE ONE SIDE WE DEAL WITH 1114 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,382 DEGENERASY AND IT HELPS THE 1115 00:51:56,382 --> 00:52:02,321 BRAIN AND STILL GENERATE THE 1116 00:52:02,321 --> 00:52:04,657 SYNC UP BUT YOU WANT TO DEAL 1117 00:52:04,657 --> 00:52:06,626 WITH THE SIGNALS AND DEALING 1118 00:52:06,626 --> 00:52:10,596 WITH NON-IDENTIFIABLE ISSUES. 1119 00:52:10,596 --> 00:52:12,932 THIS IS A HUGE OBSTACLE FOR US 1120 00:52:12,932 --> 00:52:15,768 WHEN TRYING TO INTERPRET THE 1121 00:52:15,768 --> 00:52:16,002 SIGNAL. 1122 00:52:16,002 --> 00:52:19,639 SIMPLE OPTIMIZATION DOES NOT 1123 00:52:19,639 --> 00:52:22,975 WORK BECAUSE OF THE ISSUES IN 1124 00:52:22,975 --> 00:52:27,780 TERMS OF NON-IDENTIFIABILITY CAN 1125 00:52:27,780 --> 00:52:31,050 COME IN THROUGH DE-GENEROUSITY 1126 00:52:31,050 --> 00:52:32,852 ON ONE SIDE OR THE SYSTEM IS NOT 1127 00:52:32,852 --> 00:52:35,154 WELL CONSTRAINED. 1128 00:52:35,154 --> 00:52:36,389 NONE OF YOU HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT 1129 00:52:36,389 --> 00:52:39,892 MODEL VALIDATION BUT WE'RE 1130 00:52:39,892 --> 00:52:41,394 RUNNING INTO THIS ISSUE IN THE 1131 00:52:41,394 --> 00:52:42,628 MULTISCALE SYSTEM AND WOULD LIKE 1132 00:52:42,628 --> 00:52:43,830 YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS BECAUSE IF 1133 00:52:43,830 --> 00:52:47,366 WE WANT TO BRING THE MODELS INTO 1134 00:52:47,366 --> 00:52:51,204 CLINICAL APPLICATIONS AS PETRA 1135 00:52:51,204 --> 00:52:52,939 JUST SAID WE NEED TO KNOW HOW 1136 00:52:52,939 --> 00:52:53,906 WELL WE UNDERSTAND THE SIGNALS 1137 00:52:53,906 --> 00:52:57,376 WHETHER WE CAN IDENTIFY THE 1138 00:52:57,376 --> 00:52:57,977 MECHANISMS OR JUST CORRELATE 1139 00:52:57,977 --> 00:53:01,080 THEM. 1140 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,149 >> I SEE MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE 1141 00:53:03,149 --> 00:53:04,383 THEIR HANDS UP. 1142 00:53:04,383 --> 00:53:05,685 MAYBE WE'LL STAY ON THE TOPIC 1143 00:53:05,685 --> 00:53:09,922 FOR A MOMENT AND I KNOW MIRIAM 1144 00:53:09,922 --> 00:53:12,158 YOU HAND YOUR HANDS UP AND MAYBE 1145 00:53:12,158 --> 00:53:15,027 THEY'RE ON DIFFERENT TOPICS SO 1146 00:53:15,027 --> 00:53:16,762 WE'LL COME BACK IN A MINUTE. 1147 00:53:16,762 --> 00:53:21,834 AMY, GO AHEAD. 1148 00:53:21,834 --> 00:53:27,673 >> SO AND I THINK MOST 1149 00:53:27,673 --> 00:53:29,275 COMPUTATIONAL MODELERS THINK OF 1150 00:53:29,275 --> 00:53:31,143 THE CURSE OF DIMENSIONALITY AND 1151 00:53:31,143 --> 00:53:32,311 THE FINER SCALE WITH MODELS THE 1152 00:53:32,311 --> 00:53:34,213 MORE PARAMETERS WE HAVE TO FIT. 1153 00:53:34,213 --> 00:53:36,382 IT'S GOING TO NEED MORE AND MORE 1154 00:53:36,382 --> 00:53:37,984 DATA IN ORDER TO GET RELIABLE 1155 00:53:37,984 --> 00:53:39,385 ESTIMATES OF THOSE. 1156 00:53:39,385 --> 00:53:46,058 SO I THINK ONE BIG THINK -- 1157 00:53:46,058 --> 00:53:48,628 THING WE COULD DO IS COMBINE 1158 00:53:48,628 --> 00:53:54,734 DATA SETS AND MAKE A LARGE SCALE 1159 00:53:54,734 --> 00:53:57,103 EFFORT HA HARMONIZE DATA SETS 1160 00:53:57,103 --> 00:53:58,638 AND HAVE LARGE DATA SETS TO WORK 1161 00:53:58,638 --> 00:54:02,241 WITH TO IDENTIFY SOME SORT OF 1162 00:54:02,241 --> 00:54:05,678 PERHAPS CANONICAL LAWS THAT 1163 00:54:05,678 --> 00:54:07,446 OCCUR IN THE BRAIN IN EVERYONE'S 1164 00:54:07,446 --> 00:54:10,783 BRAINS AND THEN ALSO BE ABLE TO 1165 00:54:10,783 --> 00:54:11,884 HAVE MODELS THAT ARE -- HAVE 1166 00:54:11,884 --> 00:54:14,253 ENOUGH PARAMETERS TO CAPTURE 1167 00:54:14,253 --> 00:54:17,557 THAT DIVERSITY ACROSS POPULATION 1168 00:54:17,557 --> 00:54:21,794 BUT NOT SO MUCH WE HAVE 1169 00:54:21,794 --> 00:54:23,262 NON-IDENTIFIABILITY TO A CERTAIN 1170 00:54:23,262 --> 00:54:23,496 EXTENT. 1171 00:54:23,496 --> 00:54:30,069 SO I THINK THESE LARGE SCALE 1172 00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:32,905 COMPILATIONS OF DATA WOULD HELP 1173 00:54:32,905 --> 00:54:36,042 IN THAT REGARD AS WELL AS 1174 00:54:36,042 --> 00:54:36,642 INTERCOMBRATING MULTI-SCALE 1175 00:54:36,642 --> 00:54:39,045 MODELS AND PROBING WHAT SCALE WE 1176 00:54:39,045 --> 00:54:40,379 NEED TO GET USEFUL INFORMATION 1177 00:54:40,379 --> 00:54:40,680 CLINICALLY. 1178 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,382 IF WE ONLY NEED TO KNOW THE 1179 00:54:43,382 --> 00:54:44,884 MACRO SCALE ACTIVATION PATTERN 1180 00:54:44,884 --> 00:54:46,686 CHANGES THAT OCCUR IN RESPONSE 1181 00:54:46,686 --> 00:54:48,187 TO A STIMULATION, THEN MAYBE 1182 00:54:48,187 --> 00:54:55,094 THAT'S ALL WE NEED TO MODEL. 1183 00:54:55,094 --> 00:54:56,696 >> ONE THING THAT PROBABLY GOES 1184 00:54:56,696 --> 00:55:02,134 WITH THAT IS WHEN THE NUMBER OF 1185 00:55:02,134 --> 00:55:04,370 PARAME 1186 00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:07,506 PARAMETERS EXPLODE DO A 1187 00:55:07,506 --> 00:55:11,877 SENSITIVITY ANALYSIS AND PETRA I 1188 00:55:11,877 --> 00:55:19,485 THINK YOU WERE. 1189 00:55:19,485 --> 00:55:20,453 >> CONSIDER THE PROBLEM WIN FIVE 1190 00:55:20,453 --> 00:55:21,721 MINUTES AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO 1191 00:55:21,721 --> 00:55:24,256 GO IN DEPTH TO THE TOPIC. 1192 00:55:24,256 --> 00:55:28,361 WHAT I WANT TO EMPHASIZE IS THIS 1193 00:55:28,361 --> 00:55:33,633 IS THE NATURE OF OUR BRAIN AS 1194 00:55:33,633 --> 00:55:36,068 SAID BY VIKTOR TO BE REDUNDANT 1195 00:55:36,068 --> 00:55:37,637 AND EMBRACE IT. 1196 00:55:37,637 --> 00:55:39,138 IT'S NOT THE BACK OF OUR 1197 00:55:39,138 --> 00:55:40,473 MODELLING APPROACH BUT IT 1198 00:55:40,473 --> 00:55:41,641 REFLECTS WHAT THE BRAIN IS. 1199 00:55:41,641 --> 00:55:43,843 THEREFORE WE NEED TO COME UP 1200 00:55:43,843 --> 00:55:46,278 WITH METHODS AND WHAT WE'RE 1201 00:55:46,278 --> 00:55:47,213 DOING LIKE PARAMETER LEARNING. 1202 00:55:47,213 --> 00:55:50,583 THIS IS WHAT HE THIS BRAIN DOES. 1203 00:55:50,583 --> 00:55:54,687 WE BASICALLY USE METHODS TO 1204 00:55:54,687 --> 00:55:57,757 GENERALIZE. 1205 00:55:57,757 --> 00:56:01,227 SO IT'S A NICE A.I. AND THE 1206 00:56:01,227 --> 00:56:02,828 MODELLING COMING CLOSER AND 1207 00:56:02,828 --> 00:56:03,429 CLOSER. 1208 00:56:03,429 --> 00:56:13,973 AND THE BORDERS ARE FWETH MORE 1209 00:56:14,540 --> 00:56:16,275 -- BECOMING MORE FUZZY AND LESS 1210 00:56:16,275 --> 00:56:17,443 CLEAR. 1211 00:56:17,443 --> 00:56:18,911 AND WE'RE GOING AWAY FROM 1212 00:56:18,911 --> 00:56:21,714 STATISTICAL AND USE A MODELLING 1213 00:56:21,714 --> 00:56:22,848 TOOL PARAMETER LEARNING WHICH 1214 00:56:22,848 --> 00:56:24,750 MIMICS WHAT OUR BRAIN IS DOING 1215 00:56:24,750 --> 00:56:25,251 WHEN IT IS LEARNING AND 1216 00:56:25,251 --> 00:56:29,055 DEVELOPING. 1217 00:56:29,055 --> 00:56:30,890 BUT WITH WHAT I WOULD BE 1218 00:56:30,890 --> 00:56:33,092 INTERESTED IN AND YOU ARE 1219 00:56:33,092 --> 00:56:34,460 THINKING ABOUT IT A LOT VIKTOR 1220 00:56:34,460 --> 00:56:40,366 AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THE 1221 00:56:40,366 --> 00:56:41,467 PROBLEM? 1222 00:56:41,467 --> 00:56:42,268 >> CAN I ANSWER? 1223 00:56:42,268 --> 00:56:43,969 CAN I RESPOND TO THIS? 1224 00:56:43,969 --> 00:56:44,570 >> SURE. 1225 00:56:44,570 --> 00:56:47,907 I'LL TRY TO KEEP THE ANSWER VERY 1226 00:56:47,907 --> 00:56:52,845 SHORT. 1227 00:56:52,845 --> 00:56:55,081 PETRA, I LIKE YOUR RESPONSE. 1228 00:56:55,081 --> 00:56:57,016 WHEN YOU SAID WE NEED TO EMBRACE 1229 00:56:57,016 --> 00:56:59,585 IT BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE 1230 00:56:59,585 --> 00:57:04,156 NATURE SO WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY 1231 00:57:04,156 --> 00:57:07,927 THE PARAMETER IF YOU WISH THAT 1232 00:57:07,927 --> 00:57:08,828 ALLOW DIFFERENT REALIZATIONS OF 1233 00:57:08,828 --> 00:57:09,762 THE BRAIN. 1234 00:57:09,762 --> 00:57:13,132 WE NEED TO LIVE WITH 1235 00:57:13,132 --> 00:57:14,366 NON-IDENTIFIABILITY BECAUSE IT 1236 00:57:14,366 --> 00:57:15,768 CAN COME EITHER BECAUSE THE 1237 00:57:15,768 --> 00:57:16,869 PROBLEM NOT SUFFICIENTLY 1238 00:57:16,869 --> 00:57:19,405 CONSTRAINED OR BECAUSE THE 1239 00:57:19,405 --> 00:57:22,541 PROBLEM IS ACTUALLY 1240 00:57:22,541 --> 00:57:24,777 INTRINSICALLY AND ENDOGENOUSLY 1241 00:57:24,777 --> 00:57:26,345 IDENTIFIED AND THIS IS WHAT THE 1242 00:57:26,345 --> 00:57:30,015 BRAIN WORKS WITH ALSO. 1243 00:57:30,015 --> 00:57:32,084 THE WAY I THINK ABOUT THIS AND I 1244 00:57:32,084 --> 00:57:33,486 FULLY AGREE WE SHOULD EMBRACE 1245 00:57:33,486 --> 00:57:34,420 IT. 1246 00:57:34,420 --> 00:57:37,790 THE WAY TO WHY EMBRACE IT IS TO 1247 00:57:37,790 --> 00:57:39,959 ADAPT THE TOOLS NOT TRYING TO 1248 00:57:39,959 --> 00:57:44,396 FIND THE BEST PARAMETER SETTING 1249 00:57:44,396 --> 00:57:47,900 BUT WORKING WITH DISTRIBUTIONS 1250 00:57:47,900 --> 00:57:51,570 SAMPLING MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS 1251 00:57:51,570 --> 00:57:53,372 PROVIDING US FOR EVIDENCE OR 1252 00:57:53,372 --> 00:57:54,874 LIKELIHOOD FOR POSSIBLE 1253 00:57:54,874 --> 00:57:58,377 SOLUTIONS AND IF WE GET THE 1254 00:57:58,377 --> 00:57:59,845 INFORMATION OUT OF THIS MEANING 1255 00:57:59,845 --> 00:58:03,449 WE CANNOT INFER ANYTHING BECAUSE 1256 00:58:03,449 --> 00:58:05,851 THE PROBLEM IS NOT CONSTRAINED 1257 00:58:05,851 --> 00:58:08,354 AND WE MUST KNOW THAT. 1258 00:58:08,354 --> 00:58:11,757 THE CLINICIAN MUST KNOW THAT 1259 00:58:11,757 --> 00:58:14,426 WHEN HE, SHE IS MAKING A 1260 00:58:14,426 --> 00:58:15,628 DECISION AND THE PROBLEM IS NOT 1261 00:58:15,628 --> 00:58:16,829 WELL CONSTRAINED. 1262 00:58:16,829 --> 00:58:19,665 THE ONLY WAY OF DEALING WITH 1263 00:58:19,665 --> 00:58:24,937 THAT IS IN A PROBABILISTIC WAY 1264 00:58:24,937 --> 00:58:27,773 AND IF IT'S IN A DIFFERENT 1265 00:58:27,773 --> 00:58:28,908 MANNER IT DOESN'T MATTER. 1266 00:58:28,908 --> 00:58:31,877 THAT'S NOT THE POINT. 1267 00:58:31,877 --> 00:58:32,311 >> THANKS. 1268 00:58:32,311 --> 00:58:35,347 >> THAT TOUCHES ON THE TOPIC OF 1269 00:58:35,347 --> 00:58:37,082 UNCERTAINTY QUANTIFICATION. 1270 00:58:37,082 --> 00:58:41,287 THAT'S AN OBSCURE TERM AND 1271 00:58:41,287 --> 00:58:43,722 QUANTIFYING AND VISUALIZING 1272 00:58:43,722 --> 00:58:44,023 VARIABILITY. 1273 00:58:44,023 --> 00:58:47,393 I WANT TO BRING IN THE OTHER TWO 1274 00:58:47,393 --> 00:58:47,726 DISCUSSANTS. 1275 00:58:47,726 --> 00:58:49,361 I DON'T KNOW WHO RAISED THEIR 1276 00:58:49,361 --> 00:58:49,829 HAND FIRST. 1277 00:58:49,829 --> 00:58:54,633 MARYAM I SAW YOU FIRST. 1278 00:58:54,633 --> 00:58:55,734 >> GREAT. 1279 00:58:55,734 --> 00:58:57,903 THE TOPIC I WANTED TO DISCUSS 1280 00:58:57,903 --> 00:59:01,340 RELATE TO WHAT WAS JUST 1281 00:59:01,340 --> 00:59:02,875 DISCUSSED AND VALIDATE THE 1282 00:59:02,875 --> 00:59:03,542 MODELS. 1283 00:59:03,542 --> 00:59:09,982 THE WORK ON A.I. AND STATISTICAL 1284 00:59:09,982 --> 00:59:11,617 MODELLING FOCUSSED ON THE 1285 00:59:11,617 --> 00:59:16,355 PREDICTION OF MODEL AS OBTAINED 1286 00:59:16,355 --> 00:59:21,060 TO CORRELATION. 1287 00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:22,828 WE HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY 1288 00:59:22,828 --> 00:59:25,264 PERHAPS FOR CAUSAL VALIDATION 1289 00:59:25,264 --> 00:59:27,066 BECAUSE WE NOT ONLY ARE 1290 00:59:27,066 --> 00:59:30,903 OBSERVING THE OUTPUT OF THE 1291 00:59:30,903 --> 00:59:35,908 SYSTEM BUT PERTURB IT THROUGH 1292 00:59:35,908 --> 00:59:37,877 INPUT AND CAUSALLY VALIDATE 1293 00:59:37,877 --> 00:59:40,279 MODEL PREDICTIONS AND HOW DO WE 1294 00:59:40,279 --> 00:59:42,648 BUILD THE MOLES AMENABLE TO 1295 00:59:42,648 --> 00:59:43,883 CAUSAL PREDICTION. 1296 00:59:43,883 --> 00:59:47,019 THAT RELATES TO CONTROL THEORY. 1297 00:59:47,019 --> 00:59:52,258 IF YOU BUILD A COMPLICATED MODEL 1298 00:59:52,258 --> 00:59:54,226 PERHAPS YOU CANNOT BUILD THE 1299 00:59:54,226 --> 00:59:57,096 OPTIMAL INPUTS YOU CAN THEN USE 1300 00:59:57,096 --> 00:59:59,298 TO PERTURB THE OUTPUT OF THE 1301 00:59:59,298 --> 00:59:59,498 MODEL. 1302 00:59:59,498 --> 01:00:05,070 I WANTED TO TOUCH ON THIS 1303 01:00:05,070 --> 01:00:08,440 TRADE-OFF BETWEEN MODEL 1304 01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,676 COMPLEXITY TO GET CAUSAL VALLING 1305 01:00:10,676 --> 01:00:16,215 DAY -- -- VALIDATION IN MY WORK 1306 01:00:16,215 --> 01:00:17,816 AND I LOOK AT THE OPPORTUNITY AS 1307 01:00:17,816 --> 01:00:21,020 A FIELD TO THINK OF MODELS 1308 01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:22,721 CONTROLLABLE SO WE CAN CAUSALLY 1309 01:00:22,721 --> 01:00:25,925 VALIDATE PREDICTIONS. 1310 01:00:25,925 --> 01:00:28,560 I WANTED TO SEE WHAT THE OTHER 1311 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,562 PANEL MEMBERS AND SPEAKERS THINK 1312 01:00:30,562 --> 01:00:31,297 ABOUT THAT AS WELL. 1313 01:00:31,297 --> 01:00:35,734 >> MARYAM, THANKS. 1314 01:00:35,734 --> 01:00:40,239 CAN YOU TAKE A MOMENT AND 1315 01:00:40,239 --> 01:00:42,541 EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE BECAUSE WE 1316 01:00:42,541 --> 01:00:44,510 COLLECTIVELY HAVE USED THE WORD 1317 01:00:44,510 --> 01:00:45,945 MODEL IN A BUNCH OF WAYS AND 1318 01:00:45,945 --> 01:00:50,849 THAT WORD IS OFTEN FAMILIAR AND 1319 01:00:50,849 --> 01:00:53,886 WE CONTEXT SWITCH QUICKLY. 1320 01:00:53,886 --> 01:00:57,222 AND WE HAVE A DATA-DRIVEN MODEL 1321 01:00:57,222 --> 01:01:05,898 OPPOSED TO STARTING FOR A BIO 1322 01:01:05,898 --> 01:01:08,367 PHYSICAL MODEL. 1323 01:01:08,367 --> 01:01:11,136 AND YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THE DATA 1324 01:01:11,136 --> 01:01:16,141 DRIVEN MODELS ARE. 1325 01:01:16,141 --> 01:01:18,077 >> YEAH. 1326 01:01:18,077 --> 01:01:20,179 FROM A DATA-DRIVEN PERSPECTIVE 1327 01:01:20,179 --> 01:01:23,983 USUALLY WHAT WE BUILD THE MODELS 1328 01:01:23,983 --> 01:01:26,418 TO DO IS TO FOR EXAMPLE DESCRIBE 1329 01:01:26,418 --> 01:01:29,621 THE EVOLUTION OF NEURAL ACTIVITY 1330 01:01:29,621 --> 01:01:30,856 PATTERNS. 1331 01:01:30,856 --> 01:01:32,925 THIS WE CALL UNSUPERVISED 1332 01:01:32,925 --> 01:01:34,226 MODELLING BECAUSE WE'RE 1333 01:01:34,226 --> 01:01:36,795 MODELLING THE BRAIN DATA 1334 01:01:36,795 --> 01:01:38,664 AGNOSTIC TO ANY BEHAVIORAL 1335 01:01:38,664 --> 01:01:41,734 CONTEXT AND YOU HAVE NEURAL AND 1336 01:01:41,734 --> 01:01:44,403 DATA AS WELL AS BEHAVIORAL 1337 01:01:44,403 --> 01:01:46,572 LABELS AND BUILD THE SUPERVISED 1338 01:01:46,572 --> 01:01:51,377 MODELS TO RELATE IT TOGETHER. 1339 01:01:51,377 --> 01:01:53,012 THESE BRAIN BEHAVIOR MODELS THAT 1340 01:01:53,012 --> 01:01:56,648 ARE DATA DRIVEN LARGELY FOCUS ON 1341 01:01:56,648 --> 01:01:57,583 PREDICTION TO ESTABLISH 1342 01:01:57,583 --> 01:01:57,983 CORRELATION. 1343 01:01:57,983 --> 01:02:00,586 YOU BUILD A MODEL AND USE IT TO 1344 01:02:00,586 --> 01:02:03,722 PREDICT BEHAVIOR AND THEN LOOK 1345 01:02:03,722 --> 01:02:07,226 AT THE CORRELATION OF TWO 1346 01:02:07,226 --> 01:02:08,994 BEHAVIORAL LABELS A WAY OF 1347 01:02:08,994 --> 01:02:09,928 VALIDATING THE MODELS. 1348 01:02:09,928 --> 01:02:11,830 WHAT I'M TRYING TO BRING UP IS 1349 01:02:11,830 --> 01:02:14,099 WHAT IF WE WANT TO CAUSALLY 1350 01:02:14,099 --> 01:02:15,467 VALIDATE THE MODELS. 1351 01:02:15,467 --> 01:02:18,804 WHAT WE CAN DO IS MODEL THE 1352 01:02:18,804 --> 01:02:20,072 EFFECT OF PERTURBATION IN THE 1353 01:02:20,072 --> 01:02:23,042 MODELS AND HAVE A MODEL THAT 1354 01:02:23,042 --> 01:02:24,877 DESCRIBES HOW DOES THIS 1355 01:02:24,877 --> 01:02:26,111 PERTURBATION AND CHANGES THE 1356 01:02:26,111 --> 01:02:29,248 BEHAVIORAL OUTCOMES AND THEN 1357 01:02:29,248 --> 01:02:31,550 APPLY THAT UNVALIDATED AND MAKE 1358 01:02:31,550 --> 01:02:33,118 THE RIGHT PREDICTION. 1359 01:02:33,118 --> 01:02:35,220 THAT WOULD ESSENTIALLY MOVE US 1360 01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:38,991 TOWARDS CAUSAL VALIDATION OF THE 1361 01:02:38,991 --> 01:02:39,792 MODELS RATHER THAN 1362 01:02:39,792 --> 01:02:41,894 CORRELATION-BASED VALIDATION. 1363 01:02:41,894 --> 01:02:43,996 BY DATA DRIVEN MODELS 1364 01:02:43,996 --> 01:02:45,898 ESSENTIALLY DESCRIBING DYNAMIC 1365 01:02:45,898 --> 01:02:47,699 DATA AND RELATIONSHIP TO 1366 01:02:47,699 --> 01:02:48,834 BEHAVIORAL LABELS AND 1367 01:02:48,834 --> 01:02:50,469 POTENTIALLY WHAT I'M ARGUING FOR 1368 01:02:50,469 --> 01:02:53,705 IS TO MODEL THE OF PERTURBATION 1369 01:02:53,705 --> 01:02:56,875 SUCH THAT WE CAN SALVAGE 1370 01:02:56,875 --> 01:02:57,776 CAUSALITY. 1371 01:02:57,776 --> 01:02:58,577 >> SURE, THANKS. 1372 01:02:58,577 --> 01:03:08,821 SO I JUST WANT TO ASK, IG NACIO, 1373 01:03:08,821 --> 01:03:10,589 LET'S HEAR WHAT MAC SAYS ON THE 1374 01:03:10,589 --> 01:03:12,825 TOPIC AND THEN I'LL COME TO YOU. 1375 01:03:12,825 --> 01:03:17,529 THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE. 1376 01:03:17,529 --> 01:03:17,896 >> NO WORRIES. 1377 01:03:17,896 --> 01:03:19,331 I DON'T HAVE SOLUTIONS TO REAL 1378 01:03:19,331 --> 01:03:22,267 PROBLEMS BUT I WANTED TO PUT AN 1379 01:03:22,267 --> 01:03:24,269 INTERESTING FLAG OUT THERE FOR 1380 01:03:24,269 --> 01:03:26,171 US THAT THERE ARE NOW MORE THAN 1381 01:03:26,171 --> 01:03:31,810 EVER THESE AMAZING DATA SETS OUT 1382 01:03:31,810 --> 01:03:34,313 THERE WITH CAUSAL PERTURBATION 1383 01:03:34,313 --> 01:03:38,717 OF SPECIFIC CELL LINES IN MODELS 1384 01:03:38,717 --> 01:03:42,187 OFTEN OF RECEPTORS OR NEURAL 1385 01:03:42,187 --> 01:03:45,791 TARGETS THEN MATCHED TO WHOLE 1386 01:03:45,791 --> 01:03:56,335 BRAIN IMAGING OR PHYSIOLOGICAL 1387 01:03:58,537 --> 01:04:04,343 DATA AND I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN 1388 01:04:04,343 --> 01:04:11,116 OTHER GREAT MEASURES AND WILL 1389 01:04:11,116 --> 01:04:13,685 MAKE IMPACT IN THE LONG RUN BUT 1390 01:04:13,685 --> 01:04:14,720 CONCERNED WE DON'T HAVE 1391 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:19,324 OBSERVATIONAL MODELS OF WHAT ARE 1392 01:04:19,324 --> 01:04:20,626 CAUSED BY THE STIMULATION 1393 01:04:20,626 --> 01:04:22,528 PARAMETERS AND EMBRACE THE IDEA 1394 01:04:22,528 --> 01:04:24,596 OF USING THE ANIMAL MODELS FOR 1395 01:04:24,596 --> 01:04:28,901 WHAT THEY'RE GOOD FOR AND I'M IN 1396 01:04:28,901 --> 01:04:32,571 THE HITTING THE CELLS AND NOT 1397 01:04:32,571 --> 01:04:36,108 THE GABAERGIC CELLS AND NOT 1398 01:04:36,108 --> 01:04:42,881 OTHER POPULATIONS VERSUS HITTING 1399 01:04:42,881 --> 01:04:45,784 ELECTROSTIMULATION AND IF WE CAN 1400 01:04:45,784 --> 01:04:52,191 TAKE THAT WE CAN START TO DEAL 1401 01:04:52,191 --> 01:04:55,394 WITH THE CHALLENGES AND WHETHER 1402 01:04:55,394 --> 01:04:59,464 IT'S MORE OF THE BIO PHYSICAL 1403 01:04:59,464 --> 01:05:00,432 MODEL. 1404 01:05:00,432 --> 01:05:03,068 IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO 1405 01:05:03,068 --> 01:05:05,037 EMBRACE BOTH WORLDS GOING 1406 01:05:05,037 --> 01:05:05,270 FORWARD. 1407 01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:05,804 >> THANKS. 1408 01:05:05,804 --> 01:05:08,307 ONE THING THAT GETS TO AND I 1409 01:05:08,307 --> 01:05:09,841 DIDN'T MENTION THIS IN THE INTRO 1410 01:05:09,841 --> 01:05:12,377 IS ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF 1411 01:05:12,377 --> 01:05:15,047 MODELLING IS INFINITE 1412 01:05:15,047 --> 01:05:15,414 INSTRUMENTATION. 1413 01:05:15,414 --> 01:05:17,282 THAT'S A BLESSING, SOMETIMES A 1414 01:05:17,282 --> 01:05:17,616 CURSE. 1415 01:05:17,616 --> 01:05:18,784 YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO 1416 01:05:18,784 --> 01:05:24,089 DO WITH IT ALL AND MAKE SURE 1417 01:05:24,089 --> 01:05:26,425 IT'S REALISTIC BUT SOMEWHAT 1418 01:05:26,425 --> 01:05:29,061 RELATED TO THAT IS IN MODELS 1419 01:05:29,061 --> 01:05:32,864 WE'RE OFTEN TO DO THE CIRCUITRY 1420 01:05:32,864 --> 01:05:36,335 WE'RE LOOKING AT AND WE'RE ABLE 1421 01:05:36,335 --> 01:05:39,004 TO TEST IDEAS AND DO EXPERIMENTS 1422 01:05:39,004 --> 01:05:46,345 THAT WOULD BE DIFFICULT OR 1423 01:05:46,345 --> 01:05:48,380 IMPOSSIBLE TO DO 1424 01:05:48,380 --> 01:05:50,382 PHYSIOLOGICALLY. 1425 01:05:50,382 --> 01:05:51,650 I WANTED TO START AND HIGHLIGHT 1426 01:05:51,650 --> 01:05:55,954 THOSE THINGS BECAUSE I THINK 1427 01:05:55,954 --> 01:05:57,689 THOSE ARE REASONS WE TAKE FOR 1428 01:05:57,689 --> 01:05:59,024 GRANTED AND DON'T ALWAYS STOP 1429 01:05:59,024 --> 01:06:03,795 AND ARTICULATE BUT IT'S A HUGE 1430 01:06:03,795 --> 01:06:05,931 ADVANTAGE WHAT WE HAVE AS 1431 01:06:05,931 --> 01:06:07,099 EXPERIMENTALISTS TO COMBINE ALL 1432 01:06:07,099 --> 01:06:11,303 THE DATA WE CAN WHETHER IT'S 1433 01:06:11,303 --> 01:06:14,806 SYNTHETIC OR PHYSIOLOGICAL. 1434 01:06:14,806 --> 01:06:17,609 AMY, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT ON 1435 01:06:17,609 --> 01:06:19,745 THIS TOPIC? 1436 01:06:19,745 --> 01:06:20,545 >> YES. 1437 01:06:20,545 --> 01:06:21,580 TWO QUICK POINTS. 1438 01:06:21,580 --> 01:06:24,816 THE DATA DRIVEN MODELS ARE 1439 01:06:24,816 --> 01:06:25,884 INTERESTING IN DIFFERENT WAYS 1440 01:06:25,884 --> 01:06:28,954 AND ONE IS IN THE AREA OF AN 1441 01:06:28,954 --> 01:06:30,122 EXAMPLE OF INDIVIDUAL 1442 01:06:30,122 --> 01:06:31,623 NEUROSCIENCE WHERE PEOPLE ARE 1443 01:06:31,623 --> 01:06:34,826 STUDYING THE HUMAN VISUAL SYSTEM 1444 01:06:34,826 --> 01:06:35,927 AND THEY'RE TRAINING ARTIFICIAL 1445 01:06:35,927 --> 01:06:37,796 NEURAL NETWORKS TO DO THE SAME 1446 01:06:37,796 --> 01:06:40,365 THING WHEN WE DO IMAGES, SEGMENT 1447 01:06:40,365 --> 01:06:42,901 OR IDENTIFY THE CONTENT OF AN 1448 01:06:42,901 --> 01:06:43,502 IMAGE. 1449 01:06:43,502 --> 01:06:46,905 THERE'S REALLY COOL WORK FROM 1450 01:06:46,905 --> 01:06:49,074 VARIOUS PEOPLE LOOKING AT HOW 1451 01:06:49,074 --> 01:06:51,643 THE ARTIFICIAL NEURAL NETWORK 1452 01:06:51,643 --> 01:06:53,879 TRAINING PROCESS RESULTS IN 1453 01:06:53,879 --> 01:06:55,113 SIMILAR ARCHITECTURES TO WHAT 1454 01:06:55,113 --> 01:06:57,282 OCCURS IN THE BIOLOGICAL SYSTEM. 1455 01:06:57,282 --> 01:06:59,885 I WANTED TO EMPHASIZE 1456 01:06:59,885 --> 01:07:01,086 DATA-DRIVEN MODELS MAY TELL US 1457 01:07:01,086 --> 01:07:02,921 SOMETHING ABOUT THE BIOLOGICAL 1458 01:07:02,921 --> 01:07:03,188 SYSTEM. 1459 01:07:03,188 --> 01:07:05,557 IT'S NOT JUST A BLACK BOX WE'RE 1460 01:07:05,557 --> 01:07:06,391 FEEDING IN SOME THING AND 1461 01:07:06,391 --> 01:07:08,293 GETTING OUT WHAT THE BRAIN IS 1462 01:07:08,293 --> 01:07:09,728 GOING TO DO WHEN YOU STIMULATE 1463 01:07:09,728 --> 01:07:10,495 IT IN THIS WAY. 1464 01:07:10,495 --> 01:07:12,064 IT CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THE 1465 01:07:12,064 --> 01:07:13,432 DYNAMICS OF THE SYSTEM. 1466 01:07:13,432 --> 01:07:16,668 AND THE OTHER ONE IS ONE OF THE 1467 01:07:16,668 --> 01:07:17,903 BENEFITS OF USING ARTIFICIAL 1468 01:07:17,903 --> 01:07:20,439 NEURAL NETWORKS IF YOU MAKE THE 1469 01:07:20,439 --> 01:07:21,506 ARCHITECTURE IN AN APPROPRIATE 1470 01:07:21,506 --> 01:07:23,775 WAY IT COWL GIVE A LOWER 1471 01:07:23,775 --> 01:07:25,243 DIMENSION REPRESENTATION WHICH 1472 01:07:25,243 --> 01:07:26,912 AGAIN GOES BACK TO OUR PROBLEM 1473 01:07:26,912 --> 01:07:29,581 WE HAVE IF WE HAVE TOO MUCH DATA 1474 01:07:29,581 --> 01:07:32,150 OR WE HAVE TOO MANY SORT OF 1475 01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:33,585 MODELS THAT WE'RE USING IT CAN 1476 01:07:33,585 --> 01:07:36,555 TELL US WHICH MODELS MIGHT BE 1477 01:07:36,555 --> 01:07:39,224 BETTER AND PROVIDE A WAY TO 1478 01:07:39,224 --> 01:07:40,492 REDUCE THE DIMENSIONALITY 1479 01:07:40,492 --> 01:07:41,893 WITHOUT LOSING DIMENSION FROM 1480 01:07:41,893 --> 01:07:46,231 EACH REGION. 1481 01:07:46,231 --> 01:07:46,732 >> THANKS. 1482 01:07:46,732 --> 01:07:51,336 >> THAT TOUCHES ON THE CONCEPT 1483 01:07:51,336 --> 01:07:53,071 OF EXPLAINABILITY A LOT OF TIMES 1484 01:07:53,071 --> 01:07:59,311 PURELY DATA-DRIVEN MODELS ARE 1485 01:07:59,311 --> 01:08:04,349 SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN 1486 01:08:04,349 --> 01:08:06,551 AND MARYAM MENTIONED SUPERVISED 1487 01:08:06,551 --> 01:08:09,855 TRAINING AND TECHNIQUE TO 1488 01:08:09,855 --> 01:08:12,424 CONSTRAIN THAT AND SCIENTISTS 1489 01:08:12,424 --> 01:08:17,162 AND RECENTLY ONE THAT I'M AWARE 1490 01:08:17,162 --> 01:08:19,531 OF IS CHRIS ROSELL USING 1491 01:08:19,531 --> 01:08:20,899 SECONDARY A.I. MODELS TO MAKE 1492 01:08:20,899 --> 01:08:23,101 THE PRIMARY A.I. MODELS 1493 01:08:23,101 --> 01:08:28,774 EXPLAINABLE AND IDENTIFY LATENT 1494 01:08:28,774 --> 01:08:31,309 VARIABLES WHICH SEEMS CLEVER AND 1495 01:08:31,309 --> 01:08:39,518 A GOOD APPROACH. 1496 01:08:39,518 --> 01:08:41,119 ALSO IN THE INTRODUCTION I WAS 1497 01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:43,021 JOKING WHEN YOU MAKE A MODEL 1498 01:08:43,021 --> 01:08:44,122 IT'S LIKE AWHILE ANIMAL YOU HAVE 1499 01:08:44,122 --> 01:08:45,757 TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH 1500 01:08:45,757 --> 01:08:45,924 IT. 1501 01:08:45,924 --> 01:08:53,698 THERE'S PLENTY EXAMPLES OF LARGE 1502 01:08:53,698 --> 01:08:56,001 DATA-DRIVEN MODELS THAT BEHAVED 1503 01:08:56,001 --> 01:08:57,536 BADLY IN WAYS WE DIDN'T 1504 01:08:57,536 --> 01:08:58,870 ANTICIPATE AND MAY THINK OF HOW 1505 01:08:58,870 --> 01:09:02,274 TO CONSTRAIN THAT AND MAKE SURE 1506 01:09:02,274 --> 01:09:02,908 WE HAVE EXPLAINABILITY IN THE 1507 01:09:02,908 --> 01:09:08,046 END. 1508 01:09:08,046 --> 01:09:09,481 CLAYTON, GO AHEAD. 1509 01:09:09,481 --> 01:09:11,817 >> THIS IS A WONDERFUL 1510 01:09:11,817 --> 01:09:12,217 CONVERSATION. 1511 01:09:12,217 --> 01:09:13,318 OBVIOUSLY WE CAN HAVE SEVERAL 1512 01:09:13,318 --> 01:09:15,387 SESSIONS ON THIS. 1513 01:09:15,387 --> 01:09:21,026 I DO WANT TO COME BACK TO THE 1514 01:09:21,026 --> 01:09:22,894 CONTEXT OF COORDINATED EFFORT. 1515 01:09:22,894 --> 01:09:25,263 >> CLAYTON, WE'RE GETTING A 1516 01:09:25,263 --> 01:09:27,332 BUNCH OF REVERBERATION WHEN 1517 01:09:27,332 --> 01:09:37,609 YOU'RE TALKING. 1518 01:09:43,181 --> 01:09:44,182 >> THIS IS A WONDERFUL 1519 01:09:44,182 --> 01:09:46,485 CONVERSATION AND CAN DO THIS FOR 1520 01:09:46,485 --> 01:09:46,751 DAYS. 1521 01:09:46,751 --> 01:09:48,019 IT WOULD BE VALUABLE TO RECORD 1522 01:09:48,019 --> 01:09:49,321 THE CONTEXT OF COORDINATED 1523 01:09:49,321 --> 01:09:50,655 EFFORTS FROM DATA WE'RE LIKELY 1524 01:09:50,655 --> 01:09:52,023 TO GET FROM THOSE KINDS OF 1525 01:09:52,023 --> 01:09:52,357 STUDIES. 1526 01:09:52,357 --> 01:09:55,727 AND ON THAT POINT, ONE THING 1527 01:09:55,727 --> 01:09:57,796 THAT I HAVE BEEN HEARING AND I 1528 01:09:57,796 --> 01:09:59,397 THINK MAC TOUCHED ON A LITTLE 1529 01:09:59,397 --> 01:10:02,000 BIT BUT HAVE SEEN IT IN SEVERAL 1530 01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,201 DIFFERENT DISCUSSIONS IS THE USE 1531 01:10:03,201 --> 01:10:09,341 OF NON-INVASIVE IMAGES FOR 1532 01:10:09,341 --> 01:10:10,175 MODELS BEING USED. 1533 01:10:10,175 --> 01:10:12,644 I'M GOING IT MAKE A STATEMENT. 1534 01:10:12,644 --> 01:10:13,912 I'M NOT TRYING TO BE 1535 01:10:13,912 --> 01:10:14,880 CONTROVERSIAL BUT WOULD LOVE A 1536 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:20,151 RESPONSE FROM THE PANEL ON THIS 1537 01:10:20,151 --> 01:10:22,654 AND THAT IS THAT FOR ALL THE 1538 01:10:22,654 --> 01:10:26,925 WONDERFUL INSIGHTS WE'VE GOTTEN 1539 01:10:26,925 --> 01:10:29,027 FROM DIFFUSION MRI AT THE END OF 1540 01:10:29,027 --> 01:10:31,162 THE DAY STREAMLINES ARE NOT 1541 01:10:31,162 --> 01:10:32,864 AXONS AND WOULD BE USEFUL TO 1542 01:10:32,864 --> 01:10:34,132 HEAR TO THE PANEL RESPOND TO 1543 01:10:34,132 --> 01:10:36,868 THAT AND DISCUSS WHAT THE 1544 01:10:36,868 --> 01:10:38,904 IMPLICATIONS ARE FOR MODELLING 1545 01:10:38,904 --> 01:10:41,907 AT LARGE BE IT BY PHYSICAL OR 1546 01:10:41,907 --> 01:10:52,117 DATA DRIVEN. 1547 01:10:58,657 --> 01:11:00,959 >> I COME FROM THE DIFFUSION 1548 01:11:00,959 --> 01:11:02,928 IMAGING FIELD AND THEY SRGED OUT 1549 01:11:02,928 --> 01:11:04,963 HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS AND AT A 1550 01:11:04,963 --> 01:11:08,366 HIGH LEVEL AND EMBRACE ALL THE 1551 01:11:08,366 --> 01:11:08,667 CHALLENGES. 1552 01:11:08,667 --> 01:11:10,702 THEY'VE MADE GREAT PROGRESS BUT 1553 01:11:10,702 --> 01:11:14,973 EVEN WITH THE CHALLENGES THEY'RE 1554 01:11:14,973 --> 01:11:17,876 JUST MAPPING CORTICAL ACTIVITY 1555 01:11:17,876 --> 01:11:22,013 AND I WOULD ARGUE WITH WHAT'S 1556 01:11:22,013 --> 01:11:23,815 GOING WRONG IN DEMENTIA, 1557 01:11:23,815 --> 01:11:25,584 PARKINSON'S DISEASE AND OTHER 1558 01:11:25,584 --> 01:11:28,053 DISORDERS ARE LIKELY PROBLEMS 1559 01:11:28,053 --> 01:11:31,590 WITH THE CORTICAL SYSTEM AND IT 1560 01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:36,361 DEVELOPS TAU PATHOLOGY AND CAN'T 1561 01:11:36,361 --> 01:11:37,862 MODULATE ANOTHER SUBCORTICAL 1562 01:11:37,862 --> 01:11:39,097 STRUCTURE AND IT'S MAYBE 1563 01:11:39,097 --> 01:11:41,099 DETECTABLE AT THE CORTICAL 1564 01:11:41,099 --> 01:11:41,299 LEVEL. 1565 01:11:41,299 --> 01:11:42,767 WE'RE STARTING TO I THINK 1566 01:11:42,767 --> 01:11:44,636 EMBRACE THE MOTION OF THE SYSTEM 1567 01:11:44,636 --> 01:11:46,471 OF THE BRAIN WORKING AS A WHOLE 1568 01:11:46,471 --> 01:11:48,873 REQUIRES US THINKING CAREFULLY 1569 01:11:48,873 --> 01:11:50,342 WHETHER THE MEASURES ARE 1570 01:11:50,342 --> 01:11:51,843 CONSTRAINING THE FUNCTION OF THE 1571 01:11:51,843 --> 01:11:52,777 SYSTEM OR ANOTHER MEASURE. 1572 01:11:52,777 --> 01:11:54,579 UNTIL WE TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY 1573 01:11:54,579 --> 01:11:56,748 WE'RE GOING TO KEEP MEASURING A 1574 01:11:56,748 --> 01:11:58,817 PART AND TAKING IT FOR THE 1575 01:11:58,817 --> 01:11:59,651 WHOLE. 1576 01:11:59,651 --> 01:12:01,252 I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY THE SKY'S 1577 01:12:01,252 --> 01:12:03,254 FALLING, I THINK WE CAN MAKE 1578 01:12:03,254 --> 01:12:04,623 GREAT PROGRESS HERE. 1579 01:12:04,623 --> 01:12:07,125 THERE'S EXCELLENT ANATOMICAL 1580 01:12:07,125 --> 01:12:09,127 DATA FOR EXAMPLE THE ALLEN BRAIN 1581 01:12:09,127 --> 01:12:14,733 MAPPED THE MOUSE CONNECTOME IN 1582 01:12:14,733 --> 01:12:16,267 EXCRUCIATING DETAIL AND USE THEM 1583 01:12:16,267 --> 01:12:18,103 TO ASK HOW THEY RELATE TO THE 1584 01:12:18,103 --> 01:12:21,906 HUMAN WHEN YOU PUSH THE NEEDLE 1585 01:12:21,906 --> 01:12:22,507 FORWARD. 1586 01:12:22,507 --> 01:12:23,842 IT WILL TAKE ENGINEERING AS WELL 1587 01:12:23,842 --> 01:12:26,177 AS UNDERSTANDING AND THOSE TWO 1588 01:12:26,177 --> 01:12:27,078 WORKING TOGETHER WILL BE GREAT 1589 01:12:27,078 --> 01:12:29,681 TO WATCH BUT IF WE DO THIS AS A 1590 01:12:29,681 --> 01:12:30,949 COMMUNITY WE'LL GET BETTER 1591 01:12:30,949 --> 01:12:32,517 ANSWERS ABOUT THE KINDS OF 1592 01:12:32,517 --> 01:12:33,918 EFFECTS WE EXPECT TO SEE TO 1593 01:12:33,918 --> 01:12:38,189 RECOVER FUNCTION. 1594 01:12:38,189 --> 01:12:42,661 >> THANKS. 1595 01:12:42,661 --> 01:12:45,497 I THINK ALSO YOU BROUGHT UP THE 1596 01:12:45,497 --> 01:12:49,334 LIMITS OF DIFFUSION IMAGING AND 1597 01:12:49,334 --> 01:12:59,878 IN THE BEST CASE RIGHT NOW THE 1598 01:13:01,246 --> 01:13:07,919 TACTOGGRAPHY WE GET ARE AND HAVE 1599 01:13:07,919 --> 01:13:14,025 TO BE CAREFUL BASED ON THE DATA. 1600 01:13:14,025 --> 01:13:15,694 AND WHAT WE'VE USED IS 1601 01:13:15,694 --> 01:13:18,396 CONVERGING EVIDENCE. 1602 01:13:18,396 --> 01:13:23,668 IF WE USE A TRACTOGRAPHY BASED 1603 01:13:23,668 --> 01:13:25,136 MODEL WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO 1604 01:13:25,136 --> 01:13:29,908 CONFIRM DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY 1605 01:13:29,908 --> 01:13:34,779 USING OTHER MODELS OR 1606 01:13:34,779 --> 01:13:36,281 PHYSIOLOGICAL RECORDINGS DURING 1607 01:13:36,281 --> 01:13:39,150 EEG OR IN TERMS OF FUNCTIONAL 1608 01:13:39,150 --> 01:13:40,852 IMAGING OR THE LIST GOES ON BUT 1609 01:13:40,852 --> 01:13:45,223 I THINK THAT'S A REALLY 1610 01:13:45,223 --> 01:13:47,525 IMPORTANT POINT AND MAYBE 1611 01:13:47,525 --> 01:13:50,962 SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON 1612 01:13:50,962 --> 01:13:53,898 SO MUCH HERE IS INTEGRATING THE 1613 01:13:53,898 --> 01:13:57,469 DIFFERENT TYPES OF DATA AND 1614 01:13:57,469 --> 01:14:07,946 SAYING WE HAVE A PREDICTIVE 1615 01:14:11,282 --> 01:14:21,359 RESULT. 1616 01:14:28,433 --> 01:14:30,135 >> THERE'S GERL POINTS 1617 01:14:30,135 --> 01:14:31,136 COLLECTIVELY ACROSS DIFFERENT 1618 01:14:31,136 --> 01:14:31,402 QUESTIONS. 1619 01:14:31,402 --> 01:14:35,940 I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THERE'S 1620 01:14:35,940 --> 01:14:38,576 A FAMOUS QUOTE THAT ALL MODELS 1621 01:14:38,576 --> 01:14:49,053 ARE WRONG, SOME ARE USEFUL. 1622 01:14:49,354 --> 01:14:53,658 WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THERE'S NOT 1623 01:14:53,658 --> 01:14:54,793 A PERFECT MODEL OF THE BRAIN. 1624 01:14:54,793 --> 01:14:59,697 THE WAY I THINK OF THE MODELLING 1625 01:14:59,697 --> 01:15:00,932 EFFORT IS THAT WE ARE WORKING 1626 01:15:00,932 --> 01:15:04,369 ONE BRIDGE AT A TIME. 1627 01:15:04,369 --> 01:15:07,505 IT'S A COMPLEX EDIFICE WE'RE 1628 01:15:07,505 --> 01:15:14,646 BUILDING AND IT'S A MULTISCALE 1629 01:15:14,646 --> 01:15:15,547 SYSTEM AND A LOT OF THE 1630 01:15:15,547 --> 01:15:20,385 VALIDATION CAN BE DONE AT THE 1631 01:15:20,385 --> 01:15:23,655 GIVEN SCALE RATHER THE WHOLE 1632 01:15:23,655 --> 01:15:26,524 MODEL AND WE HAVE THE NEW 1633 01:15:26,524 --> 01:15:29,360 MEASUREMENT AND VALIDATE. 1634 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:30,395 THAT'S ONE SCALE. 1635 01:15:30,395 --> 01:15:31,996 AND IT FEED FORWARD FROM THERE 1636 01:15:31,996 --> 01:15:33,531 TO THE OTHER SCALES. 1637 01:15:33,531 --> 01:15:35,900 WE'RE FORTUNATE THERE'S FEEDBACK 1638 01:15:35,900 --> 01:15:46,311 IN THAT PARTICULAR SCALE. 1639 01:15:46,311 --> 01:15:49,180 YOU CAN GET INSIGHTS AT EACH 1640 01:15:49,180 --> 01:15:50,748 SCALE AND BE LIKE OKAY IF YOU 1641 01:15:50,748 --> 01:15:52,350 COUPLE TO THE NEURONS IN THE 1642 01:15:52,350 --> 01:15:54,886 CORTEX WE SEE THIS PHENOMENA 1643 01:15:54,886 --> 01:15:55,954 THAT MAY EXPLAIN THE 1644 01:15:55,954 --> 01:15:57,722 OBSERVATIONS BECAUSE WE KNOW 1645 01:15:57,722 --> 01:16:00,792 WHEN YOU PERTURB PARAMETERS OF 1646 01:16:00,792 --> 01:16:02,861 STIMULATION THE COUPLING HAPPENS 1647 01:16:02,861 --> 01:16:03,928 AT THE INDIVIDUAL NEURON LEVEL 1648 01:16:03,928 --> 01:16:09,500 AND IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN SOMETHING 1649 01:16:09,500 --> 01:16:18,009 THERE IT CAN BUILD IN OTHER 1650 01:16:18,009 --> 01:16:18,243 MODELS. 1651 01:16:18,243 --> 01:16:21,646 AND I LIKE CONVERGING EVIDENCE 1652 01:16:21,646 --> 01:16:23,882 IN THE CONCEPT OF WE DON'T HAVE 1653 01:16:23,882 --> 01:16:26,317 ONE BIG MODEL THAT EXPLAINS 1654 01:16:26,317 --> 01:16:28,386 EVERYTHING MAYBE SOME TIME SOON 1655 01:16:28,386 --> 01:16:30,321 BUT THE EFFORT OF HAVING A LOT 1656 01:16:30,321 --> 01:16:32,891 OF MODELS AT DIFFERENT SCALES SO 1657 01:16:32,891 --> 01:16:35,526 NOT ONLY MULTI-SCALE BUT ALSO 1658 01:16:35,526 --> 01:16:36,694 PARALLEL EFFORTS WITH DIFFERENT 1659 01:16:36,694 --> 01:16:41,900 MODELLING APPROACHES SAY WHETHER 1660 01:16:41,900 --> 01:16:48,940 IT'S TRIPTOGRAPHY AND IF YOU 1661 01:16:48,940 --> 01:16:51,442 HAVE CONVERGING EVIDENCE, GREAT, 1662 01:16:51,442 --> 01:16:56,414 YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING. 1663 01:16:56,414 --> 01:17:03,421 I ENCOURAGE AND MORE AND MORE 1664 01:17:03,421 --> 01:17:05,657 DATA IS AVAILABLE. 1665 01:17:05,657 --> 01:17:06,824 THAT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR 1666 01:17:06,824 --> 01:17:09,060 MODELS AND WE CALL FOR MORE 1667 01:17:09,060 --> 01:17:09,661 INTEGRATION AND CONVERGENCE 1668 01:17:09,661 --> 01:17:15,400 GOING FORWARD. 1669 01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,002 >> THANKS. 1670 01:17:18,002 --> 01:17:20,538 THAT ALSO HIGHLIGHTS WHAT FOR 1671 01:17:20,538 --> 01:17:30,081 MANY OF US IS AN ITERATIVE 1672 01:17:30,081 --> 01:17:31,349 PROCESS AND LOOK AT THE DATA AND 1673 01:17:31,349 --> 01:17:35,119 SEE IF IT HOLDS UP AND RUN MORE 1674 01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:36,487 EXPERIMENTS AND GO BACK TO THE 1675 01:17:36,487 --> 01:17:38,556 MODEL AND KEEP REFINING TO SEE 1676 01:17:38,556 --> 01:17:40,425 IF THERE'S EMERGENT BEHAVIOR OR 1677 01:17:40,425 --> 01:17:43,528 NEW INSIGHT THAT CAN COME OUT OF 1678 01:17:43,528 --> 01:17:45,096 THAT PROCESS WHEN IT'S REALLY 1679 01:17:45,096 --> 01:17:47,332 TIGHTLY INTEGRATED TOGETHER. 1680 01:17:47,332 --> 01:17:55,773 THANKS. 1681 01:17:55,773 --> 01:17:56,007 IGNACIO. 1682 01:17:56,007 --> 01:18:06,250 >> THANK YOU. 1683 01:18:08,419 --> 01:18:11,389 I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT OUTSIDE 1684 01:18:11,389 --> 01:18:12,657 THE BRAIN AND WE'VE TALKED OF 1685 01:18:12,657 --> 01:18:16,361 NEURAL DYNAMICS AND THINGS THAT 1686 01:18:16,361 --> 01:18:17,295 HAPPEN WITHIN THE BRAIN AND THE 1687 01:18:17,295 --> 01:18:20,131 OTHER PART IS FOR THE MOST PART 1688 01:18:20,131 --> 01:18:21,799 HOW WE'LL BE VALIDATING THE 1689 01:18:21,799 --> 01:18:23,601 OUTCOME OF THE STIMULATION WHICH 1690 01:18:23,601 --> 01:18:25,670 IS BEHAVIOR AND TRANSLATIONAL 1691 01:18:25,670 --> 01:18:27,705 APPLICATIONS IN CLINICAL SCALES 1692 01:18:27,705 --> 01:18:33,111 AND SO ON, THIS IS SOMETHING 1693 01:18:33,111 --> 01:18:36,914 THAT OFTEN TIMES IT'S A BIT OF 1694 01:18:36,914 --> 01:18:38,182 AN AFTERTHOUGHT. 1695 01:18:38,182 --> 01:18:40,284 WE WANT TO DO THE DATA-DRIVEN 1696 01:18:40,284 --> 01:18:44,589 MODELLING OF THE CONSEQUENCE OF 1697 01:18:44,589 --> 01:18:46,724 STIMULATION IN THE END AND TRY 1698 01:18:46,724 --> 01:18:50,461 TO MAP THAT TO A SIMPLE CLINICAL 1699 01:18:50,461 --> 01:18:52,363 SCALE WITH LOW TEMPORAL 1700 01:18:52,363 --> 01:18:54,832 RESOLUTION IF ANY AND IT'S 1701 01:18:54,832 --> 01:18:56,367 REALLY DIFFICULT PROBLEM THAT 1702 01:18:56,367 --> 01:19:00,371 IMPEDES HOW WE'RE GOING TO BE 1703 01:19:00,371 --> 01:19:03,041 USING THESE THINGS AND IT IN 1704 01:19:03,041 --> 01:19:06,177 SOME ASPECT AND SOME CONTEXT IT 1705 01:19:06,177 --> 01:19:09,113 KIND OF DOESN'T MATTER HOW 1706 01:19:09,113 --> 01:19:11,215 SOPHISTICATED THE MODELLING IS 1707 01:19:11,215 --> 01:19:12,150 IF WE CAN'T IMPACT THE CLINICAL 1708 01:19:12,150 --> 01:19:13,985 SCORES. 1709 01:19:13,985 --> 01:19:15,520 THIS IS POTENTIALLY RELEVANT TO 1710 01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,923 SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS WE'VE 1711 01:19:18,923 --> 01:19:23,594 HAD IN SESSION 2 YESTERDAY ABOUT 1712 01:19:23,594 --> 01:19:23,861 BEHAVIORS. 1713 01:19:23,861 --> 01:19:25,963 AND WE DO HAVE COMPUTATIONAL 1714 01:19:25,963 --> 01:19:30,668 MODELS OF BEHAVIOR AND USEFUL 1715 01:19:30,668 --> 01:19:33,438 SCALES SAYING WE CAN MAYBE MAP 1716 01:19:33,438 --> 01:19:35,573 ON TO THOSE OR DO CLINICAL 1717 01:19:35,573 --> 01:19:37,842 SCORES AND BETTER MAP THAT OUT. 1718 01:19:37,842 --> 01:19:43,481 SO THE IDEA OF ALGORITHMIC 1719 01:19:43,481 --> 01:19:45,249 TARGETING THINKING HOW THIS 1720 01:19:45,249 --> 01:19:46,584 PROCESSES ARE REPRESENTED IN THE 1721 01:19:46,584 --> 01:19:48,853 BRAIN AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT WE 1722 01:19:48,853 --> 01:19:52,323 WANT TO MEASURE OR THE 1723 01:19:52,323 --> 01:19:54,459 SOPHISTICATION OF BEHAVIORAL AND 1724 01:19:54,459 --> 01:19:55,660 CLINICAL COMPLEXITY OF THESE 1725 01:19:55,660 --> 01:19:57,495 THINGS I THINK IS KIND OF A 1726 01:19:57,495 --> 01:20:00,198 DIFFERENT LAYER OF MODELLING 1727 01:20:00,198 --> 01:20:01,766 THAT I THINK WE SHOULD CONSIDER 1728 01:20:01,766 --> 01:20:03,134 AS A GROUP FUP. 1729 01:20:03,134 --> 01:20:04,569 HOW DO WE ESTIMATE THOSE AND HOW 1730 01:20:04,569 --> 01:20:06,437 DO WE MAP ON TO THOSE AND OFTEN 1731 01:20:06,437 --> 01:20:07,672 TIMES WE'RE GOING TO BE THINKING 1732 01:20:07,672 --> 01:20:13,010 ABOUT THOSE AS THE READ OUTS. 1733 01:20:13,010 --> 01:20:17,915 >> AND THOSE BEHAVIORAL READOUTS 1734 01:20:17,915 --> 01:20:22,019 ARE ACQUIRED AT DRAMATICALLY 1735 01:20:22,019 --> 01:20:22,553 TEMPORAL SCALES. 1736 01:20:22,553 --> 01:20:24,922 IT MAY BE ONCE A WEEK OR ONCE A 1737 01:20:24,922 --> 01:20:26,624 MONTH OR ONCE A DAY AND HOW DO 1738 01:20:26,624 --> 01:20:29,861 YOU CONNECT MODELS WORKING OVER 1739 01:20:29,861 --> 01:20:30,862 MILLISECONDS OR SECONDS OR 1740 01:20:30,862 --> 01:20:35,032 WHATEVER TIME SCALE TO THOSE. 1741 01:20:35,032 --> 01:20:39,103 THAT'S AN INTERESTING PROBLEM. 1742 01:20:39,103 --> 01:20:40,705 MIR 1743 01:20:40,705 --> 01:20:41,405 MIRIAM, DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT 1744 01:20:41,405 --> 01:20:43,274 ABOUT THAT? 1745 01:20:43,274 --> 01:20:46,444 >> I THINK THAT WAS A FANTASTIC 1746 01:20:46,444 --> 01:20:50,348 POINT IGNACIO RAISED AND A MAJOR 1747 01:20:50,348 --> 01:20:51,616 BOTTLENECK IN OUR MODELLING 1748 01:20:51,616 --> 01:20:53,384 BECAUSE OF THE SPARSE LABELS. 1749 01:20:53,384 --> 01:20:58,322 THIS IS THE CHALLENGE WE DEAL 1750 01:20:58,322 --> 01:20:59,891 WITH IN THE BRAIN DATA ANALYSIS 1751 01:20:59,891 --> 01:21:03,895 AND IT RAISES MULTIPLE 1752 01:21:03,895 --> 01:21:05,229 OPPORTUNITIES FOR RESEARCH. 1753 01:21:05,229 --> 01:21:10,301 ONE ENRICH THE MEASUREMENTS AND 1754 01:21:10,301 --> 01:21:12,470 THERE'S BEAUTIFUL WORK ON VIDEO 1755 01:21:12,470 --> 01:21:14,372 MONITORING, SPEECH, 1756 01:21:14,372 --> 01:21:15,273 PHYSIOLOGICAL MEASURES. 1757 01:21:15,273 --> 01:21:17,308 PERHAPS ALL OF THESE AT 1758 01:21:17,308 --> 01:21:20,778 DIFFERENT SCALES CAN ENRICH 1759 01:21:20,778 --> 01:21:21,879 BEHAVIORAL MEASURES BEYOND 1760 01:21:21,879 --> 01:21:23,614 SELF-REPORTS AND CLINICAL 1761 01:21:23,614 --> 01:21:23,948 ASSESSMENTS. 1762 01:21:23,948 --> 01:21:26,284 THAT'S ONE AREA OF BEHAVIORAL 1763 01:21:26,284 --> 01:21:27,885 MODELLING AND BEHAVIORAL 1764 01:21:27,885 --> 01:21:28,920 MEASUREMENTS THAT CAN ENRICH 1765 01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:29,487 THIS DIRECTION. 1766 01:21:29,487 --> 01:21:31,222 THE OTHER IS ON THE MACHINE 1767 01:21:31,222 --> 01:21:32,890 LEARNING SIDE. 1768 01:21:32,890 --> 01:21:38,529 FOR EXAMPLE, WE CAN THINK ABOUT 1769 01:21:38,529 --> 01:21:39,864 AGGREGATING DATA ACROSS PATIENTS 1770 01:21:39,864 --> 01:21:42,366 IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER TO HAVE 1771 01:21:42,366 --> 01:21:45,870 MORE AND MORE BEHAVIORAL LABELS 1772 01:21:45,870 --> 01:21:48,272 IN THE MANNER DONE IN A.I. AND 1773 01:21:48,272 --> 01:21:52,276 THEN FINE TUNE TO AN INDIVIDUAL. 1774 01:21:52,276 --> 01:21:54,412 AND HAVE A RICHER AND LESS 1775 01:21:54,412 --> 01:21:58,416 SPARSE MEASURES. 1776 01:21:58,416 --> 01:22:00,151 THERE'S OTHER IDEAS IN THE 1777 01:22:00,151 --> 01:22:04,989 MODELLING SIDE TO ADDRESS THE 1778 01:22:04,989 --> 01:22:05,690 LABELS. 1779 01:22:05,690 --> 01:22:08,659 I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITY 1780 01:22:08,659 --> 01:22:11,929 PRECISELY RELATED TO THE 1781 01:22:11,929 --> 01:22:14,565 MODELLING AND SENSING SIDE THAT 1782 01:22:14,565 --> 01:22:16,367 WE COLLECTIVELY ALL SHOULD BE 1783 01:22:16,367 --> 01:22:16,867 THINKING ABOUT. 1784 01:22:16,867 --> 01:22:27,178 >> THANKS, PETRA. 1785 01:22:28,246 --> 01:22:30,114 >> THERE'S DIFFICULTY TO SEE IN 1786 01:22:30,114 --> 01:22:34,352 THE BACKGROUND BUT IT WAS NOT 1787 01:22:34,352 --> 01:22:36,354 SPOTTED SO I'LL GO TO VIKTOR 1788 01:22:36,354 --> 01:22:44,395 FIRST. 1789 01:22:44,395 --> 01:22:47,131 >> I MISSED IT. 1790 01:22:47,131 --> 01:22:52,103 >> DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK, VIKTOR? 1791 01:22:52,103 --> 01:22:53,638 >> NO, I TRIED TO CHANGE THE 1792 01:22:53,638 --> 01:23:04,081 COLOR BUT I DOESN'T WORK. 1793 01:23:07,718 --> 01:23:09,387 I WANT TO RESPOND TO CLAYTON AND 1794 01:23:09,387 --> 01:23:10,988 CHRIS WHEN YOU WERE TALKING 1795 01:23:10,988 --> 01:23:14,859 ABOUT THE DATA-DRIVEN MODELLING 1796 01:23:14,859 --> 01:23:17,928 BUT FITS WITH THE COMMENTS 1797 01:23:17,928 --> 01:23:26,203 IGNACIO MADE, SO FAR MOST OF THE 1798 01:23:26,203 --> 01:23:27,638 DISCUSSION WAS GOING AROUND AT 1799 01:23:27,638 --> 01:23:29,340 LEAST IMPLICITLY AROUND THE 1800 01:23:29,340 --> 01:23:32,743 TOPIC OF DATA MODELLING. 1801 01:23:32,743 --> 01:23:34,845 WE ARE MODELLING THE DATA WE 1802 01:23:34,845 --> 01:23:35,046 SEEK. 1803 01:23:35,046 --> 01:23:38,549 I'D LIKE TO INVITE A DIFFERENT 1804 01:23:38,549 --> 01:23:40,351 PERSPECTIVE. 1805 01:23:40,351 --> 01:23:47,425 I'LL TELL YOU WHY. 1806 01:23:47,425 --> 01:23:49,327 WHAT ARE MODELS? 1807 01:23:49,327 --> 01:23:58,002 THEY'RE COMPUTATIONAL 1808 01:23:58,002 --> 01:24:00,338 REPRESENTATIONS OF OUR KNOWLEDGE 1809 01:24:00,338 --> 01:24:04,275 AND WHAT WE BELIEVE AND THINK 1810 01:24:04,275 --> 01:24:06,177 COMMUNICATION HAPPENS HOI S ARE 1811 01:24:06,177 --> 01:24:09,714 WORKING, HOW DYNAMICS, EVOLVE, 1812 01:24:09,714 --> 01:24:10,014 ETCETERA. 1813 01:24:10,014 --> 01:24:10,648 THEY'RE A REPRESENTATION OF OUR 1814 01:24:10,648 --> 01:24:15,986 KNOWLEDGE. 1815 01:24:15,986 --> 01:24:21,592 THE DETAIL IS COMING FROM 1816 01:24:21,592 --> 01:24:22,526 KNOWLEDGE. 1817 01:24:22,526 --> 01:24:23,861 IT DEPENDS ON THE SCALE AND 1818 01:24:23,861 --> 01:24:25,363 CHOOSE A PARTICULAR SCALE. 1819 01:24:25,363 --> 01:24:27,832 AT SOME POINT THE MODELS GET 1820 01:24:27,832 --> 01:24:29,900 SEPARATED AND THE ADDITIONAL 1821 01:24:29,900 --> 01:24:34,872 DETAIL AND KNOWLEDGE WILL NOT 1822 01:24:34,872 --> 01:24:40,978 ADD THE PREDICTIVE POWER BECAUSE 1823 01:24:40,978 --> 01:24:42,580 IT WON'T IMPROVE THE PREDICTS. 1824 01:24:42,580 --> 01:24:45,816 HAVING SAID THIS, I WANT YOU TO 1825 01:24:45,816 --> 01:24:47,118 RECOGNIZE THE KNOWLEDGE SPACE 1826 01:24:47,118 --> 01:24:48,886 DESCRIBED BY OUR MODELS IS 1827 01:24:48,886 --> 01:24:49,520 TYPICALLY LARGER THAN THE DATA 1828 01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,021 SPACE. 1829 01:24:51,021 --> 01:24:58,262 WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THE 1830 01:24:58,262 --> 01:24:59,930 MODEL CAN BE TYPICAL OR LARGER 1831 01:24:59,930 --> 01:25:02,566 AND EXPLAIN THE PHENOMENA WE DO 1832 01:25:02,566 --> 01:25:06,303 NOT SEE IN THE DATA WITH MACHINE 1833 01:25:06,303 --> 01:25:08,372 LEARNING APPROACHES YOUR 1834 01:25:08,372 --> 01:25:09,440 ENTERING INTO THE DATA AND 1835 01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:10,608 TRYING TO EXTRACT THE STRUCTURE 1836 01:25:10,608 --> 01:25:11,842 IN THE DATA. 1837 01:25:11,842 --> 01:25:14,345 WHEN YOU LINK A CAUSAL MODEL -- 1838 01:25:14,345 --> 01:25:17,047 A GENERATIVE MODEL TO DATA ONE 1839 01:25:17,047 --> 01:25:18,482 WAY OR ANOTHER SAY FOR INSTANCE 1840 01:25:18,482 --> 01:25:21,585 YOU ARE ACTUALLY ABLE TO MAKE 1841 01:25:21,585 --> 01:25:22,420 STATEMENTS THAT GO BEYOND THE 1842 01:25:22,420 --> 01:25:23,554 DATA SPACE. 1843 01:25:23,554 --> 01:25:24,922 I'LL GIVE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF OUR 1844 01:25:24,922 --> 01:25:29,794 OWN WORK WHERE WE WORK WITH 1845 01:25:29,794 --> 01:25:30,594 EPILEPSY. 1846 01:25:30,594 --> 01:25:34,965 BUILDING NETWORK MODELS THE WAY 1847 01:25:34,965 --> 01:25:37,768 PETRA, MAC VERY WELL DESCRIBED. 1848 01:25:37,768 --> 01:25:40,404 WE'RE MODELLING THE FULL BRAIN 1849 01:25:40,404 --> 01:25:42,039 NETWORK SPACE. 1850 01:25:42,039 --> 01:25:47,077 THE PATIENTS WE EXPLORE HAVE A 1851 01:25:47,077 --> 01:25:48,879 FINITE NUMBER OF ELECTRODES 1852 01:25:48,879 --> 01:25:49,146 IMPLANTED. 1853 01:25:49,146 --> 01:25:54,385 KNEES ARE THE DATA WE USE TO 1854 01:25:54,385 --> 01:25:58,923 BIAS THE MODELS AND MAKE 1855 01:25:58,923 --> 01:26:00,558 PREDICTIONS WHERE THE EPILEPTIC 1856 01:26:00,558 --> 01:26:01,225 ZONE IS. 1857 01:26:01,225 --> 01:26:02,960 WE'RE FINDING IT IN THE ONLY IN 1858 01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:05,396 THE PLACES SO THROUGH THE 1859 01:26:05,396 --> 01:26:07,898 PROCESS WHERE THE ELECTRONS WERE 1860 01:26:07,898 --> 01:26:10,334 LOCATED BUT OUTSIDE OF THIS. 1861 01:26:10,334 --> 01:26:13,237 AND THE PLACES NOT ACCESSIBLE TO 1862 01:26:13,237 --> 01:26:14,205 THE CLINICIANS. 1863 01:26:14,205 --> 01:26:16,907 WHEN YOU TEN THIS PUT THIS IN 1864 01:26:16,907 --> 01:26:17,975 RETROSPECTIVE DATA AND ANALYSIS 1865 01:26:17,975 --> 01:26:20,411 IT TURNS OUT THAT PREDICTIVE 1866 01:26:20,411 --> 01:26:22,713 POWER OF THE MODELS IS DIG 1867 01:26:22,713 --> 01:26:25,249 SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN THE 1868 01:26:25,249 --> 01:26:26,617 ACTUAL CLINICAL DECISION MAKING 1869 01:26:26,617 --> 01:26:29,820 THAT WAS PERFORMED AND IN 30%, 1870 01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:33,424 29% OF ALL THE CASES THE 1871 01:26:33,424 --> 01:26:35,359 ADDITIONAL EPILEPTIC ZONES ARE 1872 01:26:35,359 --> 01:26:37,294 OUTSIDE OF THE AREAS THAT WERE 1873 01:26:37,294 --> 01:26:37,928 CLINICALLY ACCESSIBLE. 1874 01:26:37,928 --> 01:26:38,963 DUE TO THE MODEL AND SOMETHING 1875 01:26:38,963 --> 01:26:40,598 LIKE THIS YOU CAN ACCESS ONLY 1876 01:26:40,598 --> 01:26:42,433 WITH THE MODEL BECAUSE YOU 1877 01:26:42,433 --> 01:26:43,234 CANNOT MEASURE THERE. 1878 01:26:43,234 --> 01:26:46,504 SO THIS IS A POINT I WANTED TO 1879 01:26:46,504 --> 01:26:50,207 MAKE HERE AND MODEL IS A 1880 01:26:50,207 --> 01:26:52,276 FORMALIZATION OF OUR KNOWLEDGE 1881 01:26:52,276 --> 01:26:54,678 AND CAN BE MUCH VASTER THAN THE 1882 01:26:54,678 --> 01:26:57,715 DATA SPACE SO THE PROSPECTIVE IS 1883 01:26:57,715 --> 01:27:00,351 A MODEL DOES NOT ONLY EXPLAIN 1884 01:27:00,351 --> 01:27:01,785 THE DATA. 1885 01:27:01,785 --> 01:27:06,190 THE MODEL CAN GO WAY BEYOND THAT 1886 01:27:06,190 --> 01:27:07,825 AND TOGETHER USING THE MODELLING 1887 01:27:07,825 --> 01:27:10,027 AND DATA APPROACH WE WILL BE 1888 01:27:10,027 --> 01:27:12,296 ABLE TO MAKE PREDICTIONS THAT 1889 01:27:12,296 --> 01:27:14,231 CANNOT BE MADE WHEN WE WORK WITH 1890 01:27:14,231 --> 01:27:14,832 DATA ALONE OR WITH THE MODEL 1891 01:27:14,832 --> 01:27:23,941 ALONE. 1892 01:27:23,941 --> 01:27:26,477 SORRY THAT WAS LENGTHY. 1893 01:27:26,477 --> 01:27:28,479 >> I APPRECIATE IT AND A GREAT 1894 01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:29,914 ILLUSTRATION OF WHAT WE'RE 1895 01:27:29,914 --> 01:27:31,448 TRYING TO ACHIEVE, USING THEORY 1896 01:27:31,448 --> 01:27:33,984 AND MODELLING ALONG WITH 1897 01:27:33,984 --> 01:27:35,119 PHYSIOLOGICAL IS GREATER THEREIN 1898 01:27:35,119 --> 01:27:36,720 TE SUM OF ITS PARTS AND CAN 1899 01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:37,988 GENERATE NEW INSIGHTS. 1900 01:27:37,988 --> 01:27:40,691 ONE OF THE THINGS WE FOUND WE 1901 01:27:40,691 --> 01:27:44,395 HAVE TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT AND 1902 01:27:44,395 --> 01:27:46,163 PETRA TOUCHED ON THIS SPEAKING 1903 01:27:46,163 --> 01:27:47,998 AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SESSION 1904 01:27:47,998 --> 01:27:52,770 IS WHAT I CALL BY 1905 01:27:52,770 --> 01:27:56,073 OVERINTERPRETATION OF THE DATA. 1906 01:27:56,073 --> 01:28:01,245 WE MAID VISUALIZATIONS WE 1907 01:28:01,245 --> 01:28:04,381 THOUGHT WERE APPROPRIATE AND 1908 01:28:04,381 --> 01:28:05,749 CIRCUMSPECT AND UNINTENTIONALLY 1909 01:28:05,749 --> 01:28:07,551 PEOPLE WHO SAW THEM CAME TO 1910 01:28:07,551 --> 01:28:09,186 CONCLUSIONS THE MODELLING DID 1911 01:28:09,186 --> 01:28:12,856 NOT SUPPORT AND WE SAID HOLD ON 1912 01:28:12,856 --> 01:28:16,160 YOU'RE OVER INTERPRETING THIS OR 1913 01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:19,129 PUT A FEATURE IN THE 1914 01:28:19,129 --> 01:28:20,230 VISUALIZATION LEADING THE 1915 01:28:20,230 --> 01:28:20,965 INTERPRETATION ASTRAY. 1916 01:28:20,965 --> 01:28:23,934 WE NEED TO FIX THAT AND ADDRESS 1917 01:28:23,934 --> 01:28:26,337 THAT. 1918 01:28:26,337 --> 01:28:28,372 PETRA, I TOUCHED ON THIS IN YOUR 1919 01:28:28,372 --> 01:28:32,076 SLIDES WHEN YOU WERE TALKING 1920 01:28:32,076 --> 01:28:32,710 ABOUT GETTING THROUGH THE 1921 01:28:32,710 --> 01:28:34,812 PROCESS ALL THE WAY TO THE END 1922 01:28:34,812 --> 01:28:36,747 AND GOING THROUGH REGULATORY 1923 01:28:36,747 --> 01:28:40,084 PROCESSES AND MAKING SURE THAT 1924 01:28:40,084 --> 01:28:41,485 SYSTEMS USED NOT NECESSARILY IN 1925 01:28:41,485 --> 01:28:42,686 RESEARCH BUT IN CLINICAL 1926 01:28:42,686 --> 01:28:44,421 DECISION MAKING ARE WELL 1927 01:28:44,421 --> 01:28:51,428 DEFINED. 1928 01:28:51,428 --> 01:28:55,866 >> IF MAY GO TO WHAT VIKTOR SAID 1929 01:28:55,866 --> 01:28:57,167 FITS NICELY TO THE POINT I 1930 01:28:57,167 --> 01:29:00,371 WANTED TO MAKE AND ON YOUR 1931 01:29:00,371 --> 01:29:03,607 STATEMENT, VIKTOR, SO YOU WERE 1932 01:29:03,607 --> 01:29:09,580 SPEAKING OF A KNOWLEDGE SPACE 1933 01:29:09,580 --> 01:29:11,615 AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO BEST 1934 01:29:11,615 --> 01:29:16,887 PRONOUNCE THE FIRST NAME BUT YOU 1935 01:29:16,887 --> 01:29:18,322 WERE MENTIONED WE HAVE A LOT OF 1936 01:29:18,322 --> 01:29:19,723 WORK TO DO AND START AT THE 1937 01:29:19,723 --> 01:29:24,161 GRAND SCALE AND DO OUR WORK ON 1938 01:29:24,161 --> 01:29:27,031 MODELS THAT EXPLAIN CERTAIN 1939 01:29:27,031 --> 01:29:27,364 OBSERVATIONS. 1940 01:29:27,364 --> 01:29:29,933 AND FILL UP THE KNOWLEDGE SPACE 1941 01:29:29,933 --> 01:29:35,606 THAT WAS DESCRIBED BY VIKTOR TWO 1942 01:29:35,606 --> 01:29:38,342 POINTS I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE. 1943 01:29:38,342 --> 01:29:40,611 THE FIRST POINT IS THAT NORD TO 1944 01:29:40,611 --> 01:29:44,148 ACHIEVE THIS WE NEED PROPER 1945 01:29:44,148 --> 01:29:47,317 ANNOTATIONS OF THE MODELS. 1946 01:29:47,317 --> 01:29:49,687 THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF 1947 01:29:49,687 --> 01:29:51,655 APPROACHES AND CAN BRING THEM 1948 01:29:51,655 --> 01:29:52,856 TOGETHER FOR THE BIOLOGICAL 1949 01:29:52,856 --> 01:29:54,258 MEANING OF THE ELEMENTS AND 1950 01:29:54,258 --> 01:29:55,793 POTENTIAL MAPPING OF THE 1951 01:29:55,793 --> 01:30:00,397 ELEMENTS WE CAN COMBINE AND WE 1952 01:30:00,397 --> 01:30:04,368 NEED NOT ONLY THE EXPERIMENTAL 1953 01:30:04,368 --> 01:30:08,105 DATA BUT NEED ALSO AN ANNOTATION 1954 01:30:08,105 --> 01:30:10,607 OF OUR COMPUTATIONAL MODELS TO 1955 01:30:10,607 --> 01:30:12,943 MAKE THEM ON TOP OF OTHER AND 1956 01:30:12,943 --> 01:30:17,948 THE SECOND THING IS I WOULD HAVE 1957 01:30:17,948 --> 01:30:25,856 MY DOUBTS ABOUT THE KNOWLEDGE 1958 01:30:25,856 --> 01:30:28,859 SPACE AND WE ONLY CAN LEARN WITH 1959 01:30:28,859 --> 01:30:29,960 TIME IF IT'S TRUE KNOWLEDGE IF 1960 01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:35,599 WE CANNOT QUANTIFY THE MODELS 1961 01:30:35,599 --> 01:30:45,843 AND KNOW IF THERE'S INFORMATION 1962 01:30:45,843 --> 01:30:47,945 OF THE MODEL THEORY. 1963 01:30:47,945 --> 01:30:49,813 IT'S STILL HYPOTHESIS AND 1964 01:30:49,813 --> 01:30:52,015 INTERESTING AND WHAT WE NEED. 1965 01:30:52,015 --> 01:30:54,418 WE NEED THEORIES OF PRINCIPLES 1966 01:30:54,418 --> 01:30:56,653 AND TRY TO FORTIFY AND IF WE 1967 01:30:56,653 --> 01:30:59,957 FAIL ON THAT, THAT MIGHT BE 1968 01:30:59,957 --> 01:31:05,429 TRUE. 1969 01:31:05,429 --> 01:31:07,865 >> IF THE COMMENT IS ON TOPIC, 1970 01:31:07,865 --> 01:31:08,499 WE SHOULD GO THERE FIRST. 1971 01:31:08,499 --> 01:31:16,073 >> OKAY. 1972 01:31:16,073 --> 01:31:17,641 >> GREAT POINTS WERE MADE. 1973 01:31:17,641 --> 01:31:19,543 I THINK THE DIFFERENTIATION 1974 01:31:19,543 --> 01:31:21,845 BETWEEN KNOWLEDGE AND DATA IS 1975 01:31:21,845 --> 01:31:23,147 SUPER IMPORTANT AND THEY OF 1976 01:31:23,147 --> 01:31:24,381 COURSE ARE RELATED. 1977 01:31:24,381 --> 01:31:25,883 WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE 1978 01:31:25,883 --> 01:31:29,286 HISTORY OF PHYSICS WHERE THERE'S 1979 01:31:29,286 --> 01:31:30,320 A BASIC SUCCESSFUL EXAMPLE OF 1980 01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:33,724 GOING FROM DATA TO MODELS TO NEW 1981 01:31:33,724 --> 01:31:39,563 DATABASE AND THE MODELS AND THIS 1982 01:31:39,563 --> 01:31:41,965 WAS A SYNTHESIS OF EXPERIMENTAL 1983 01:31:41,965 --> 01:31:43,500 OBSERVATIONS AND THEY PRODUCED 1984 01:31:43,500 --> 01:31:45,302 NEW PREDICTIONS BECAUSE THERE 1985 01:31:45,302 --> 01:31:49,873 WAS A MODELLING STAGE AND THEN 1986 01:31:49,873 --> 01:32:00,184 THIS LED TO DISCOVERY OF 1987 01:32:00,184 --> 01:32:01,552 ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES AND 1988 01:32:01,552 --> 01:32:03,453 EINSTEIN WENT FROM THAT TO THE 1989 01:32:03,453 --> 01:32:06,990 THEORY OF RELATIVELY AND ALL THE 1990 01:32:06,990 --> 01:32:08,625 NEW PREDICTS OF GRAVITY AND SO 1991 01:32:08,625 --> 01:32:09,126 ON. 1992 01:32:09,126 --> 01:32:12,129 IT'S CLEAR WE NEED DATA TO MAKE 1993 01:32:12,129 --> 01:32:13,463 MODELS AND BASED ON 1994 01:32:13,463 --> 01:32:14,231 GENERALIZATION OF THE MODEL AND 1995 01:32:14,231 --> 01:32:16,066 LEAD TO PREDICTIONS WE THEN HAVE 1996 01:32:16,066 --> 01:32:17,601 TO TEST WITH EXPERIMENTS AND 1997 01:32:17,601 --> 01:32:23,340 HAVE DATA AND KEEP BUILDING ON 1998 01:32:23,340 --> 01:32:23,674 THAT. 1999 01:32:23,674 --> 01:32:26,210 I WANTED TO CONSIDER THE ROLE 2000 01:32:26,210 --> 01:32:28,912 THAT FUNDING AGENCIES LIKE THE 2001 01:32:28,912 --> 01:32:31,014 NIH AND RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS 2002 01:32:31,014 --> 01:32:32,916 AND OF COURSE INDIVIDUAL 2003 01:32:32,916 --> 01:32:37,521 INVESTIGATORS PLAY IN THE BIG 2004 01:32:37,521 --> 01:32:40,490 QUESTION FOR AND DATA FOR THAT. 2005 01:32:40,490 --> 01:32:45,262 AND THIS SPEAKS TO THE FACT THAT 2006 01:32:45,262 --> 01:32:50,033 WE'RE EXPONENTIALLY PRODUCING 2007 01:32:50,033 --> 01:32:52,436 MORE DATA AND DATA CURATION AND 2008 01:32:52,436 --> 01:32:54,404 DATA STANDARDIZATION I THINK 2009 01:32:54,404 --> 01:32:56,607 IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. 2010 01:32:56,607 --> 01:32:59,810 I THINK THERE HAS TO BE MORE 2011 01:32:59,810 --> 01:33:01,678 INVESTMENT IN THAT BECAUSE IT IS 2012 01:33:01,678 --> 01:33:03,780 IT'S HARD FOR ME TO DO. 2013 01:33:03,780 --> 01:33:06,450 I THINK IT HAS TO BE MADE EASIER 2014 01:33:06,450 --> 01:33:07,351 BY DIFFERENT INSTITUTIONS AND 2015 01:33:07,351 --> 01:33:09,987 AMOUNT OF RESOURCES BY THE 2016 01:33:09,987 --> 01:33:11,321 EMPHASIS PLACED ON THAT AND BY 2017 01:33:11,321 --> 01:33:12,389 HOW MUCH THE INSTITUTION 2018 01:33:12,389 --> 01:33:15,492 PROVIDES PEOPLE WHO HELP WITH 2019 01:33:15,492 --> 01:33:17,527 THAT. 2020 01:33:17,527 --> 01:33:21,098 AND THAT'S HOW WE CAN GENERATE 2021 01:33:21,098 --> 01:33:27,237 KNOWLEDGE TO SYNTHESIZE MORE AND 2022 01:33:27,237 --> 01:33:28,572 MORE DATA AND THERE HAS TO BE 2023 01:33:28,572 --> 01:33:31,041 MORE EMPHASIS ON THAT. 2024 01:33:31,041 --> 01:33:36,680 AND THE AMOUNT OF PUBLICATIONS 2025 01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:40,517 IS EXPONENTIAL EXPLANATION OF 2026 01:33:40,517 --> 01:33:43,387 THE DATA IS PROLIFERATING. 2027 01:33:43,387 --> 01:33:45,255 THERE SHOULD BE INSTITUTIONAL 2028 01:33:45,255 --> 01:33:46,857 INVESTMENTS LIKE THE NIH 2029 01:33:46,857 --> 01:33:52,162 INVESTMENT IN USING THE GREAT 2030 01:33:52,162 --> 01:33:53,430 ADVANCEMENT IN MACHINE LEARNING 2031 01:33:53,430 --> 01:33:55,198 FOR LITERATURE AND WE HAVE 2032 01:33:55,198 --> 01:33:58,101 AMAZING DEVELOPMENTS IN THAT BUT 2033 01:33:58,101 --> 01:34:00,103 SPECIFICALLY HOW CAN WE EXTRACT 2034 01:34:00,103 --> 01:34:00,971 SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE FROM THE 2035 01:34:00,971 --> 01:34:04,775 RESEARCH LITERATURE? 2036 01:34:04,775 --> 01:34:10,847 HOW CAN WE SYNTHESIZE PUB MED 2037 01:34:10,847 --> 01:34:13,817 INTO INSIGHTS TO TO HELP US 2038 01:34:13,817 --> 01:34:14,718 RATHER THAN PAPERS THAT CAME OUT 2039 01:34:14,718 --> 01:34:21,325 IN THE LAST WEEK. 2040 01:34:21,325 --> 01:34:27,230 THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND 2041 01:34:27,230 --> 01:34:34,871 EXTRACTING FROM THAT AND THERE'S 2042 01:34:34,871 --> 01:34:36,974 AN AREA OF INVESTMENT TO BE ABLE 2043 01:34:36,974 --> 01:34:41,378 TO CONVERGE THE DATA TO 2044 01:34:41,378 --> 01:34:42,579 KNOWLEDGE AND GENERATE MORE 2045 01:34:42,579 --> 01:34:43,880 HYPOTHESIS AND MORE DATA AND 2046 01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:54,324 MORE KNOWLEDGE AND SO ON. 2047 01:34:57,361 --> 01:34:59,496 WHEN YOU DO MODEL EXPERIMENTS IT 2048 01:34:59,496 --> 01:35:03,066 SHOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN WET LAB 2049 01:35:03,066 --> 01:35:04,634 EXPERIMENTS. 2050 01:35:04,634 --> 01:35:07,237 YOU KEEP A NOTEBOOK AND DO 2051 01:35:07,237 --> 01:35:10,607 EVERYTHING YOU DO AND ENDS UP 2052 01:35:10,607 --> 01:35:11,942 BEING THE METADATA THAT GUYS TO 2053 01:35:11,942 --> 01:35:12,709 YOUR EXPERIMENTS. 2054 01:35:12,709 --> 01:35:15,245 IT'S NOT JUST HAVING YOUR 2055 01:35:15,245 --> 01:35:19,282 VERSION CONTROL ON GITHUB. 2056 01:35:19,282 --> 01:35:23,954 IT'S KEEPING THE IDEAS YOU WERE 2057 01:35:23,954 --> 01:35:26,089 TESTING AND THE WAY THAT WAS 2058 01:35:26,089 --> 01:35:28,392 ENTERED INTO THE MODEL TO TEST 2059 01:35:28,392 --> 01:35:38,468 IT. 2060 01:35:38,702 --> 01:35:40,270 AND HAVE BETTER TOOLS TO DO THAT 2061 01:35:40,270 --> 01:35:46,643 IN A MORE AUTOMATED WAY. 2062 01:35:46,643 --> 01:35:47,611 CLAYTON? 2063 01:35:47,611 --> 01:35:49,579 >> WE HAVE ABOUT 10 MINUTES LEFT 2064 01:35:49,579 --> 01:35:50,714 AND WANT TO MAKE EVERYONE AWARE 2065 01:35:50,714 --> 01:35:53,183 AND PUT FORWARD ONE QUESTION 2066 01:35:53,183 --> 01:35:57,454 THAT'S ROUGHLY RELATED TO SOME 2067 01:35:57,454 --> 01:35:58,388 KIND OF CHAT DIALOGUE THAT'S 2068 01:35:58,388 --> 01:36:01,291 BEEN GOING ON AND ONE AREA OF 2069 01:36:01,291 --> 01:36:02,125 OPPORTUNITY FOR COORDINATED 2070 01:36:02,125 --> 01:36:04,828 EFFORTS AND MODELLING IN THAT 2071 01:36:04,828 --> 01:36:07,831 CONTEXT IS THINKING CRITICALLY 2072 01:36:07,831 --> 01:36:11,034 ABOUT HOW STRATEGIES FOR 2073 01:36:11,034 --> 01:36:12,836 INTEGRATING EXPERIMENTAL OR 2074 01:36:12,836 --> 01:36:16,406 EMPIRICAL INSIGHTS THAT UTILIZE 2075 01:36:16,406 --> 01:36:22,245 VARYING MODALITIES THAT WE DON'T 2076 01:36:22,245 --> 01:36:26,817 TYPICALLY THINK OF AS WE 2077 01:36:26,817 --> 01:36:29,419 GENERALLY STRUGGLE TO INTEGRATE 2078 01:36:29,419 --> 01:36:32,789 THE RESULTS, THE OUTCOMES OF 2079 01:36:32,789 --> 01:36:34,157 THOSE PERTURBATIONS. 2080 01:36:34,157 --> 01:36:37,894 I THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL IF 2081 01:36:37,894 --> 01:36:39,062 THERE'S AGREEMENT TO TRY AND 2082 01:36:39,062 --> 01:36:39,896 ADDRESS THAT JUST FOR THE LAST 2083 01:36:39,896 --> 01:36:50,207 COUPLE OF MINUTES. 2084 01:36:57,247 --> 01:36:59,449 >> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A 2085 01:36:59,449 --> 01:37:00,016 SILVER BULLET HERE. 2086 01:37:00,016 --> 01:37:01,785 I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD. 2087 01:37:01,785 --> 01:37:06,123 YOU HAVE TO WORK CAREFULLY WITH 2088 01:37:06,123 --> 01:37:07,157 PEOPLE SPENDING AND COLLECTING 2089 01:37:07,157 --> 01:37:12,963 THE DATA. 2090 01:37:12,963 --> 01:37:14,764 AND I WAS TRAINED TO DIFFERENT 2091 01:37:14,764 --> 01:37:16,666 TYPES OF MODALITIES USING THINGS 2092 01:37:16,666 --> 01:37:22,906 LIKE CALCIUM IMAGES, NEURAL 2093 01:37:22,906 --> 01:37:26,109 PICTURES AND WE TRIED TO 2094 01:37:26,109 --> 01:37:29,346 INTERROGATE DATA SETS FOR THE 2095 01:37:29,346 --> 01:37:31,381 EXPERTISE AND IT WAS MIND 2096 01:37:31,381 --> 01:37:32,349 BLOWING HOW MANY CHALLENGES 2097 01:37:32,349 --> 01:37:33,383 THERE ARE THAT ARE DIFFERENT AND 2098 01:37:33,383 --> 01:37:35,352 THE ONES WE DEAL WITH fMRI. 2099 01:37:35,352 --> 01:37:37,187 YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT 2100 01:37:37,187 --> 01:37:41,424 ABOUT fMRI BUT THAT FIELD HAS 2101 01:37:41,424 --> 01:37:43,226 BEEN THROUGH THE PRESSURE COOKER 2102 01:37:43,226 --> 01:37:47,030 IN TERMS OF BEING EXPOSED TO ALL 2103 01:37:47,030 --> 01:37:48,298 THE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES. 2104 01:37:48,298 --> 01:37:50,700 THE SOLUTION FOR US IN THE LONG 2105 01:37:50,700 --> 01:37:51,735 RUN WAS WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE 2106 01:37:51,735 --> 01:37:56,106 PEOPLE WHO COLLECTED THE DATA, 2107 01:37:56,106 --> 01:37:57,107 UNDERSTANDING WHAT KIND OF BUGS 2108 01:37:57,107 --> 01:37:58,808 AND FEATURES THEY SEE IN THE 2109 01:37:58,808 --> 01:38:01,978 DATA AND WHAT THEY CONSIDER 2110 01:38:01,978 --> 01:38:03,213 EFFECTIVE PROCESSING 2111 01:38:03,213 --> 01:38:04,614 TECHNOLOGIES, ETCETERA. 2112 01:38:04,614 --> 01:38:08,718 THAT UNDER SCORES A DIALOGUE 2113 01:38:08,718 --> 01:38:12,556 BETWEEN THE GROUPS IS CRITICAL. 2114 01:38:12,556 --> 01:38:14,324 A CRITICAL FEATURE IS WE CAN'T 2115 01:38:14,324 --> 01:38:16,760 DO IT ON OUR OWN AND HAVE TO 2116 01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:18,261 BRING PEOPLE WITH EXPERTISE 2117 01:38:18,261 --> 01:38:19,696 TOGETHER AND HAVE THEM FIND A 2118 01:38:19,696 --> 01:38:21,932 COORDINATED OUTCOME THEY WANT TO 2119 01:38:21,932 --> 01:38:23,567 WORK ON AND WORK TOGETHER TO 2120 01:38:23,567 --> 01:38:26,002 INVEST AND SOLVE. 2121 01:38:26,002 --> 01:38:28,138 IF YOU WANTED TO UNDERSTAND 2122 01:38:28,138 --> 01:38:29,639 CAUSAL PERTURBATION OF THE BRAIN 2123 01:38:29,639 --> 01:38:32,375 THAT'S HARD TO MEASURE WITH fMRI 2124 01:38:32,375 --> 01:38:33,944 I WOULD THINK OTHER SYSTEMS IS 2125 01:38:33,944 --> 01:38:34,477 IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND. 2126 01:38:34,477 --> 01:38:35,979 YOU NEED TO WORK WITH PEOPLE WHO 2127 01:38:35,979 --> 01:38:38,248 DO THE WORK DOWN AT THAT SCALE 2128 01:38:38,248 --> 01:38:42,385 AND UNDERSTAND THE CELLULAR 2129 01:38:42,385 --> 01:38:43,453 ARCHITECTURE OF THE SYSTEM AND 2130 01:38:43,453 --> 01:38:45,855 THEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT 2131 01:38:45,855 --> 01:38:47,891 PEOPLE TO STIMULATE THE SYSTEM 2132 01:38:47,891 --> 01:38:48,725 AND FIGURE OUT WHO CAN ANALYZE 2133 01:38:48,725 --> 01:38:56,199 THE DATA. 2134 01:38:56,199 --> 01:38:59,636 AND THERE ARE CAREERS WE NEED TO 2135 01:38:59,636 --> 01:39:02,272 EMBRACE THE MULTI-DOMAIN AND 2136 01:39:02,272 --> 01:39:03,139 INTERDISCIPLINARY AND THAT 2137 01:39:03,139 --> 01:39:04,507 SHOULD BE PART OF WHATEVER 2138 01:39:04,507 --> 01:39:15,051 SYSTEMS WE SET UP GOING FORWARD. 2139 01:39:15,619 --> 01:39:18,521 >> HAVE THOSE PEOPLE SIT NEXT TO 2140 01:39:18,521 --> 01:39:20,357 EACH OTHER FOR A WHILE LIKE A 2141 01:39:20,357 --> 01:39:27,931 FEW MONTHS OR YEARS. 2142 01:39:27,931 --> 01:39:30,000 AND UNINTENDED BENEFITS FROM 2143 01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:33,069 BEING CO-HOEKTED. 2144 01:39:33,069 --> 01:39:35,772 -- COLOCATED. 2145 01:39:35,772 --> 01:39:37,240 CLAYTON DID THAT ADDRESS YOUR 2146 01:39:37,240 --> 01:39:38,742 QUESTION OR HAVE FOLLOW-ON IDEAS 2147 01:39:38,742 --> 01:39:39,576 ABOUT THE TOPIC? 2148 01:39:39,576 --> 01:39:49,953 >> THAT WAS WONDERFUL. 2149 01:39:52,455 --> 01:39:53,857 >> IT'S A PERSISTENT CHALLENGE 2150 01:39:53,857 --> 01:39:57,560 FOR US TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO 2151 01:39:57,560 --> 01:39:58,528 INTEGRATE KNOWLEDGE FROM ALL 2152 01:39:58,528 --> 01:40:01,564 THESE DIFFERENT DOMAINS THAT 2153 01:40:01,564 --> 01:40:02,599 OFTEN HAVE DIFFERENT 2154 01:40:02,599 --> 01:40:03,900 VOCABULARIES FOR DESCRIBING IT 2155 01:40:03,900 --> 01:40:05,835 AND DIFFERENT MENTAL CONSTRUCTS 2156 01:40:05,835 --> 01:40:07,704 FOR HOW THEY THINK ABOUT AND 2157 01:40:07,704 --> 01:40:11,041 INTERPRET IT. 2158 01:40:11,041 --> 01:40:14,444 AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE 2159 01:40:14,444 --> 01:40:18,381 PANELISTS BUT MY EXPERIENCE HAS 2160 01:40:18,381 --> 01:40:23,286 BEEN THAT IT WOULD BE RARE FOR A 2161 01:40:23,286 --> 01:40:25,221 COLLABORATOR OUTSIDE OF MY AREAS 2162 01:40:25,221 --> 01:40:27,257 OF EXPERTISE IN MODELLING TO 2163 01:40:27,257 --> 01:40:29,592 ADAPT THEIR BEHAVIOR TO THE 2164 01:40:29,592 --> 01:40:30,226 MODELS. 2165 01:40:30,226 --> 01:40:33,430 IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT WE NEED TO 2166 01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:35,765 ADAPT OUR KNOWLEDGE AND 2167 01:40:35,765 --> 01:40:39,502 VOCABULARY AND MODELS TO THE 2168 01:40:39,502 --> 01:40:40,770 PROBLEMS THE PHYSIOLOGICAL 2169 01:40:40,770 --> 01:40:42,305 PROBLEMS THEY'RE STUDYING. 2170 01:40:42,305 --> 01:40:43,707 OKAY, IN A LOT OF WAYS THAT'S 2171 01:40:43,707 --> 01:40:43,907 GREAT. 2172 01:40:43,907 --> 01:40:47,977 THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO BE 2173 01:40:47,977 --> 01:40:50,680 HEADED BUT IT IS EXTRA WORK TO 2174 01:40:50,680 --> 01:40:53,149 LEARN HOW TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE 2175 01:40:53,149 --> 01:40:54,784 AND TAKE THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND 2176 01:40:54,784 --> 01:41:00,156 THE DIFFERENT MENTAL CONSTRUCTS 2177 01:41:00,156 --> 01:41:02,092 THAT ARE SOMETIMES -- SO ACROSS 2178 01:41:02,092 --> 01:41:04,361 SCIENCE JUST SO BAKED IN BUT IT 2179 01:41:04,361 --> 01:41:07,297 CAN BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO 2180 01:41:07,297 --> 01:41:08,398 ARTICULATE WHAT THEY ARE. 2181 01:41:08,398 --> 01:41:11,267 IT'S SORT OF LIKE THE WAY WE 2182 01:41:11,267 --> 01:41:16,373 THINK. 2183 01:41:16,373 --> 01:41:17,006 ALL RIGHT. 2184 01:41:17,006 --> 01:41:18,341 WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTE LEFT ANY 2185 01:41:18,341 --> 01:41:19,209 LAST QUESTIONS OR IDEAS FROM THE 2186 01:41:19,209 --> 01:41:29,319 PANEL? 2187 01:41:29,919 --> 01:41:30,653 PRETTY QUIET. 2188 01:41:30,653 --> 01:41:31,621 MAYBE I'LL TAKE A COUPLE MINUTES 2189 01:41:31,621 --> 01:41:34,090 AND WRAP UP. 2190 01:41:34,090 --> 01:41:36,493 FIRST I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY. 2191 01:41:36,493 --> 01:41:38,928 THAT WAS GREAT QUESTIONS AND 2192 01:41:38,928 --> 01:41:39,229 DISCUSSION. 2193 01:41:39,229 --> 01:41:41,965 I REALLY ENJOYED IT AND I HOPE 2194 01:41:41,965 --> 01:41:45,135 WE KEPT IT PRACTICAL AND 2195 01:41:45,135 --> 01:41:47,737 GROUNDED ENOUGH FOR THE GENERAL 2196 01:41:47,737 --> 01:41:48,004 AUDIENCE. 2197 01:41:48,004 --> 01:41:53,977 AT THE BEGINNING I WAS SORT OF 2198 01:41:53,977 --> 01:41:59,082 TALKING ABOUT GETTING INTO SOME 2199 01:41:59,082 --> 01:42:01,351 ESOTERIC AREAS AND I THINK THERE 2200 01:42:01,351 --> 01:42:03,787 IS SOME DISCUSSION IN THE CHAT 2201 01:42:03,787 --> 01:42:14,330 ABOUT DEGENERACEY AND MAY BE TOO 2202 01:42:18,034 --> 01:42:20,470 DETAILED TO GET INTO THIS DURING 2203 01:42:20,470 --> 01:42:28,378 THE PANEL AS INTERESTING AS IT 2204 01:42:28,378 --> 01:42:30,980 IS. 2205 01:42:30,980 --> 01:42:33,016 AND WHY DO WE USE MODELS? 2206 01:42:33,016 --> 01:42:36,853 WE DO IT BECAUSE IT OFFERS US 2207 01:42:36,853 --> 01:42:41,624 SOME INSIGHT OR ADVANTAGE OR 2208 01:42:41,624 --> 01:42:43,359 UNDERSTANDING AND THAT 2209 01:42:43,359 --> 01:42:45,528 UNDERSTANDING DOESN'T NECESSARY 2210 01:42:45,528 --> 01:42:46,429 COME FROM THE FINAL RESULT. 2211 01:42:46,429 --> 01:42:49,499 IT GOES INTO THE PAPER. 2212 01:42:49,499 --> 01:42:50,633 IT COMES ALSO THROUGH THE 2213 01:42:50,633 --> 01:42:52,635 PROCESS OF STUDYING YOUR SYSTEM 2214 01:42:52,635 --> 01:42:54,504 AND LEARNING HOW IT BEHAVES AND 2215 01:42:54,504 --> 01:43:00,376 WATCHING IT AND TRYING TO TRAIN 2216 01:43:00,376 --> 01:43:00,844 IT. 2217 01:43:00,844 --> 01:43:09,185 AND SOMETIMES AND YOU HEAR AND 2218 01:43:09,185 --> 01:43:11,020 IT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE. 2219 01:43:11,020 --> 01:43:13,223 IT'S INSANELY DIFFICULT TO GET A 2220 01:43:13,223 --> 01:43:15,892 LOT OF THESE MODELS TO BEHAVE 2221 01:43:15,892 --> 01:43:17,961 THE WAY WE WANT THEM TO AND IN 2222 01:43:17,961 --> 01:43:18,828 BEHAVE IN WAYS THAT ARE 2223 01:43:18,828 --> 01:43:25,368 UNDERSTANDABLE. 2224 01:43:25,368 --> 01:43:26,469 OKAY, THANK YOU, EVERYONE. 2225 01:43:26,469 --> 01:43:29,305 THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTIONS AND 2226 01:43:29,305 --> 01:43:30,673 THE PARTICIPATION FROM THE 2227 01:43:30,673 --> 01:43:32,509 SPEAKERS AND THE DISCUSSIONANTS. 2228 01:43:32,509 --> 01:43:38,815 I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. 2229 01:43:38,815 --> 01:43:39,682 >> I CAN ALSO BRIEFLY THANK 2230 01:43:39,682 --> 01:43:41,918 EVERYONE AND FOR CHRIS AND THE 2231 01:43:41,918 --> 01:43:43,987 EFFORT AND DEEP THINKING HE'S 2232 01:43:43,987 --> 01:43:45,622 PUT INTO THE CONTENT OF THE 2233 01:43:45,622 --> 01:43:45,855 SESSION. 2234 01:43:45,855 --> 01:43:46,289 THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 2235 01:43:46,289 --> 01:43:47,991 >> THANK YOU. 2236 01:43:47,991 --> 01:43:54,831 >> THANK YOU, BYE-BYE. 2237 01:43:54,831 --> 01:43:56,599 >> I WANT TO ECHO THAT THANKS. 2238 01:43:56,599 --> 01:43:58,768 THAT WAS A FANTASTIC SESSION AND 2239 01:43:58,768 --> 01:44:00,169 THREW TO OUR SESSION 4 SPEAKERS 2240 01:44:00,169 --> 01:44:01,905 FOR THAT GREAT DISCUSSION. 2241 01:44:01,905 --> 01:44:03,706 NOW WE'LL MOVE INTO A BRIEF 2242 01:44:03,706 --> 01:44:06,576 RECAP OF THE WORKSHOP THUS FAR. 2243 01:44:06,576 --> 01:44:08,378 THIS RECAP IS INTENDED TO SET 2244 01:44:08,378 --> 01:44:15,685 THE STABLE -- STABLE FOR HOW WE 2245 01:44:15,685 --> 01:44:22,091 USE INVASIVE AND NON-INVASIVE 2246 01:44:22,091 --> 01:44:23,626 EFFORTS AND THERE WERE MANY 2247 01:44:23,626 --> 01:44:25,061 TOPICS ACROSS YESTERDAY AND THIS 2248 01:44:25,061 --> 01:44:25,295 MORNING. 2249 01:44:25,295 --> 01:44:27,497 SO MY SUMMARY WILL ONLY SCRATCH 2250 01:44:27,497 --> 01:44:29,599 THE SURFACE BUT A FULL RECORDING 2251 01:44:29,599 --> 01:44:31,334 OF THE MEETING WILL BE AVAILABLE 2252 01:44:31,334 --> 01:44:34,871 ON THAT NIH VIDEOCAST SYSTEM IN 2253 01:44:34,871 --> 01:44:35,805 THE NEAR FUTURE. 2254 01:44:35,805 --> 01:44:36,773 I'LL HIGHLIGHT SOME KEY THEMES 2255 01:44:36,773 --> 01:44:39,709 THAT EMERGED IN THE LAST DAY AND 2256 01:44:39,709 --> 01:44:40,510 A HALF. 2257 01:44:40,510 --> 01:44:42,145 YESTERDAY WE HEARD ABOUT 2258 01:44:42,145 --> 01:44:43,212 EXAMPLES OF PERTURBATION 2259 01:44:43,212 --> 01:44:44,881 APPROACH USED IN HUMANS AND 2260 01:44:44,881 --> 01:44:46,950 VALUE FOR PROVIDING EXPLANATION 2261 01:44:46,950 --> 01:44:48,918 OF COGNITION AND BEHAVIOR AT 2262 01:44:48,918 --> 01:44:49,686 DIFFERENT LEVEL. 2263 01:44:49,686 --> 01:44:53,957 AND UTILITY OF INTRACRANIAL EEG 2264 01:44:53,957 --> 01:45:03,499 AND NON-INVASIVE APPROACHES LIKE 2265 01:45:03,499 --> 01:45:04,634 ELECTROSTIMULATION AND NETWORKS 2266 01:45:04,634 --> 01:45:06,069 INVOLVED IN BEHAVIORAL FUNCTION 2267 01:45:06,069 --> 01:45:09,906 AND DYSFUNCTION. 2268 01:45:09,906 --> 01:45:11,774 FOLLOWED BY HOW THE APPROACHES 2269 01:45:11,774 --> 01:45:13,242 COULD BE USEFUL IN COORDINATED 2270 01:45:13,242 --> 01:45:14,110 EFFORT. 2271 01:45:14,110 --> 01:45:17,747 THERE WAS BROAD AGREEMENTS 2272 01:45:17,747 --> 01:45:19,048 THERE'S UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY SPACE 2273 01:45:19,048 --> 01:45:25,388 FOR MAPPING OUT BRAIN CIRCUITS 2274 01:45:25,388 --> 01:45:28,057 AND FUNCTION AND AGGREGATION CAN 2275 01:45:28,057 --> 01:45:30,760 BE IMPORTANT AMONG SPECIALIZED 2276 01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:32,862 GROUP AND DATA AGGREGATION COULD 2277 01:45:32,862 --> 01:45:34,364 BE NOT ONLY USEFUL BUT SOME 2278 01:45:34,364 --> 01:45:36,232 NEEDS IN THAT AREA IS IT COULD 2279 01:45:36,232 --> 01:45:39,135 BE BETTER SUPPORTED BY COMPLETE 2280 01:45:39,135 --> 01:45:41,871 METADATA AND SHARING OF RAW DATA 2281 01:45:41,871 --> 01:45:46,242 AND COMPLETE DATA SET AND COMMON 2282 01:45:46,242 --> 01:45:47,710 TOOLS FOR AGGREGATING DATA 2283 01:45:47,710 --> 01:45:48,711 ACROSS SITES. 2284 01:45:48,711 --> 01:45:50,079 AND THERE MAY BE OPPORTUNITIES 2285 01:45:50,079 --> 01:45:51,881 NOT JUST TO AGGREGATE DATA 2286 01:45:51,881 --> 01:45:54,083 WITHIN THE SPECIFIC MODALITIES 2287 01:45:54,083 --> 01:45:56,085 DISCUSSED BUT TO MERGE DATA FROM 2288 01:45:56,085 --> 01:45:58,454 DIFFERENT MODALITIES IN 2289 01:45:58,454 --> 01:46:02,091 SYSTEMATIC WAYS TO PROVIDE 2290 01:46:02,091 --> 01:46:03,493 CONVERGENT EVIDENCE AND INCREASE 2291 01:46:03,493 --> 01:46:04,727 THE CONFIDENCE IN OBSERVED 2292 01:46:04,727 --> 01:46:06,696 BEHAVIORAL RELATIONSHIPS AND 2293 01:46:06,696 --> 01:46:08,765 BECAUSE EACH HAVE THEIR OWN 2294 01:46:08,765 --> 01:46:11,000 NUANCES AND BIAS TO CREATE A 2295 01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:12,802 MORE WHOLISTIC PICTURE. 2296 01:46:12,802 --> 01:46:14,170 IT'S IMPORTANT TO COUNT FOR 2297 01:46:14,170 --> 01:46:15,538 VARIABILITY AND IN-PERSON 2298 01:46:15,538 --> 01:46:15,872 LOCALIZATION. 2299 01:46:15,872 --> 01:46:19,342 IT'S A TIMELY TOPIC IN LIGHT OF 2300 01:46:19,342 --> 01:46:20,977 SOPHISTICATED METHODS AVAILABLE 2301 01:46:20,977 --> 01:46:22,779 TO DEFINE VARIABILITY IN THE 2302 01:46:22,779 --> 01:46:23,846 FUNCTIONAL ARCHITECTURE OF BRAIN 2303 01:46:23,846 --> 01:46:28,184 NETWORKS AND REGIONS AND PROVIDE 2304 01:46:28,184 --> 01:46:28,785 OPPORTUNITIES TO UNDERSTAND 2305 01:46:28,785 --> 01:46:30,720 WHERE STIMULATION IS OCCURRING 2306 01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:33,956 AND HOW ITS AFFECTS MAY BE 2307 01:46:33,956 --> 01:46:35,391 PROPAGATING WITHIN INDIVIDUALS 2308 01:46:35,391 --> 01:46:37,226 AND DISCUSS QUESTIONS AND 2309 01:46:37,226 --> 01:46:39,629 CHALLENGES TO MEET THE NEED FOR 2310 01:46:39,629 --> 01:46:42,198 MORE STANDARDIZED WAYS OF 2311 01:46:42,198 --> 01:46:43,700 LOOKING AT THE 2312 01:46:43,700 --> 01:46:45,935 NEUROLOGICALESQUES OF 2313 01:46:45,935 --> 01:46:46,936 STIMULATION AND IMPORTANCE OF 2314 01:46:46,936 --> 01:46:48,204 CONSIDERING THE COMPLEX 2315 01:46:48,204 --> 01:46:51,107 PARAMETER SPACE THAT MAY BE 2316 01:46:51,107 --> 01:46:52,475 BEHAVIORALLY RELEVANT AND 2317 01:46:52,475 --> 01:46:54,544 DIFFERENT TYPES OF STIMULATION 2318 01:46:54,544 --> 01:46:57,814 HAVE DIFFERENT AFFECTS AND ARE 2319 01:46:57,814 --> 01:47:00,249 IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER ACUTELY 2320 01:47:00,249 --> 01:47:01,918 AND CHRONICALLY AND LOOK AT 2321 01:47:01,918 --> 01:47:04,587 EFFECTS ON LOCAL FUNCTION FROM 2322 01:47:04,587 --> 01:47:06,923 DISTRIBUTED INTERACTIVE NETWORK 2323 01:47:06,923 --> 01:47:07,190 FUNCTIONS. 2324 01:47:07,190 --> 01:47:09,392 AND OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES 2325 01:47:09,392 --> 01:47:11,160 THE PANEL DISCUSSED THE 2326 01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:12,528 IMPORTANCE NEUROETHICAL 2327 01:47:12,528 --> 01:47:13,696 PRINCIPLES THAT NEED TO BE 2328 01:47:13,696 --> 01:47:16,299 CONSIDERED AND THERE'S NO NEURAL 2329 01:47:16,299 --> 01:47:18,468 ETHICAL FRAMEWORK BUT CAREFUL 2330 01:47:18,468 --> 01:47:19,635 EXPECTATION OF WHAT IS STIMULATE 2331 01:47:19,635 --> 01:47:20,737 AND PATIENT CONSENT AND UNDER 2332 01:47:20,737 --> 01:47:24,373 THING THE EFFECTS OF STIMULATION 2333 01:47:24,373 --> 01:47:25,808 MAY HAVE DIVERSE EFFECTS ON 2334 01:47:25,808 --> 01:47:26,976 PEOPLE'S LIVES INSIDE AND 2335 01:47:26,976 --> 01:47:28,444 OUTSIDE THE CLINIC. 2336 01:47:28,444 --> 01:47:29,746 THE SECOND SESSION FOCUSSED ON 2337 01:47:29,746 --> 01:47:31,414 KEY CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE USE 2338 01:47:31,414 --> 01:47:34,317 OF BEHAVIORAL ASSESSMENTS. 2339 01:47:34,317 --> 01:47:39,288 OUR SPEAKERS OUTLINED A VARIETY 2340 01:47:39,288 --> 01:47:41,457 OF PARADIGMS ACROSS LEADING AND 2341 01:47:41,457 --> 01:47:46,496 LANGUAGE AND SOCIALISTIC 2342 01:47:46,496 --> 01:47:47,663 BEHAVIOR LOOKING AT STIMULATION 2343 01:47:47,663 --> 01:47:49,799 OF NETWORK NEURAL MODULATION AND 2344 01:47:49,799 --> 01:47:52,301 EEG RECORDINGS TO NAME A FEW. 2345 01:47:52,301 --> 01:47:54,103 THESE TALKS INFORM THE PANEL 2346 01:47:54,103 --> 01:47:54,637 DISCUSSION. 2347 01:47:54,637 --> 01:47:56,472 FIRSTLY IT'S IMPORTANT TO 2348 01:47:56,472 --> 01:47:57,473 UNDERSTAND HOW STIMULATION 2349 01:47:57,473 --> 01:47:59,542 DISRUPTS AND ENHANCED BEHAVIOR. 2350 01:47:59,542 --> 01:48:00,977 AND THAT ESPECIALLY IF ONE IS 2351 01:48:00,977 --> 01:48:06,048 TRYING TO SHIFT DYNAMICAL BRAIN 2352 01:48:06,048 --> 01:48:07,984 STATES EN ENHANCEMENT IT'S 2353 01:48:07,984 --> 01:48:09,018 IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND ONGOING 2354 01:48:09,018 --> 01:48:13,256 BRAIN ACTIVITY. 2355 01:48:13,256 --> 01:48:15,224 THEY DISCUSSED HOW THEY'RE 2356 01:48:15,224 --> 01:48:16,959 CHOSEN IN STIMULATION STUDIES 2357 01:48:16,959 --> 01:48:19,362 AND THERE'S CONCEPTUAL AND 2358 01:48:19,362 --> 01:48:19,629 PRACTICAL. 2359 01:48:19,629 --> 01:48:21,164 ONE IS CHOOSING THE RIGHT TO 2360 01:48:21,164 --> 01:48:22,532 PROBE THE NETWORK OF INTEREST 2361 01:48:22,532 --> 01:48:24,834 AND ANOTHER IS WHERE ELECTRODES 2362 01:48:24,834 --> 01:48:27,670 ARE PLACED CLINICALLY AND 2363 01:48:27,670 --> 01:48:28,404 THEORIZED BEHAVIORAL FUNCTIONS 2364 01:48:28,404 --> 01:48:29,305 OF THE REGIONS. 2365 01:48:29,305 --> 01:48:32,308 IN ADDITION, WHEN TASKS ARE 2366 01:48:32,308 --> 01:48:33,976 CONDUCTED IN THE CLINICAL 2367 01:48:33,976 --> 01:48:38,014 CONTEXT WHAT TASKS MIGHT PROVIDE 2368 01:48:38,014 --> 01:48:39,615 UNIQUE OPPORTUNITIES FOR STUDIES 2369 01:48:39,615 --> 01:48:44,187 IN HUMANS SUCH AS THOSE NOVELING 2370 01:48:44,187 --> 01:48:45,988 MOTION AND LANGUAGE AND THERE'S 2371 01:48:45,988 --> 01:48:48,291 OTHER PARADIGMS STUDYING NATURAL 2372 01:48:48,291 --> 01:48:50,827 BEHAVIORS AND UNIQUE VNKS AND 2373 01:48:50,827 --> 01:48:51,594 HELPING UNDERSTAND THE 2374 01:48:51,594 --> 01:48:53,229 MECHANISMS OF THE BEHAVIOR 2375 01:48:53,229 --> 01:48:54,330 ITSELF THERE COULD BE 2376 01:48:54,330 --> 01:48:55,998 OPPORTUNITIES TO UNDERSTAND HOW 2377 01:48:55,998 --> 01:48:57,767 LONGER TERM FLUCTUATIONS IN 2378 01:48:57,767 --> 01:48:59,302 SYSTEMS OVER HOURS OR DAYS 2379 01:48:59,302 --> 01:49:04,140 RELATES TO LONGER TERM 2380 01:49:04,140 --> 01:49:08,377 BEHAVIORAL OR SYSTEM VARIATION. 2381 01:49:08,377 --> 01:49:09,812 ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY IS PERM 2382 01:49:09,812 --> 01:49:11,280 PATIENT REPORT AFTER 2383 01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:11,814 STIMULATION. 2384 01:49:11,814 --> 01:49:14,917 SUCH AS FOCUS ON INTERNAL VERSUS 2385 01:49:14,917 --> 01:49:15,551 EXTERNAL STATE. 2386 01:49:15,551 --> 01:49:17,720 ANOTHER THEME WAS HOW BEHAVIORAL 2387 01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,356 APPROACHES CAN BE INTEGRATED AT 2388 01:49:20,356 --> 01:49:20,556 SCALE. 2389 01:49:20,556 --> 01:49:22,625 ARE THERE BEHAVIORS THAT CAN BE 2390 01:49:22,625 --> 01:49:25,561 AGREED UPON IN STANDARDIZED WAYS 2391 01:49:25,561 --> 01:49:30,032 OPPOSED TO IDIOSYNCRATIC 2392 01:49:30,032 --> 01:49:30,566 BEHAVIORS. 2393 01:49:30,566 --> 01:49:31,701 THIS MAY DEPEND ON THE LEVEL AT 2394 01:49:31,701 --> 01:49:33,135 WHICH WE WANT TO DRAW 2395 01:49:33,135 --> 01:49:33,436 INFERENCES. 2396 01:49:33,436 --> 01:49:36,973 IF THE GOAL IS TO UNDERSTAND 2397 01:49:36,973 --> 01:49:38,274 GENERAL BRAIN FUNCTION AND 2398 01:49:38,274 --> 01:49:40,276 STANDARD TASKS CAN BE USED WHERE 2399 01:49:40,276 --> 01:49:45,648 ALL CAN DO EQUALLY WELL WHEREAS 2400 01:49:45,648 --> 01:49:47,216 UNDERSTANDING VARIABILITY AMONG 2401 01:49:47,216 --> 01:49:50,019 PEOPLE AND THAT TASKS SHOULD BE 2402 01:49:50,019 --> 01:49:51,454 CHOSEN WITH MORE VARIABILITY AND 2403 01:49:51,454 --> 01:49:55,758 DATA ROUTINELY COLLECTED AS 2404 01:49:55,758 --> 01:49:57,927 CLINICAL CARE IS USABLE AND 2405 01:49:57,927 --> 01:49:59,395 SCALABLE ESPECIALLY WITH LEVEL 2406 01:49:59,395 --> 01:50:01,631 OF HARMONIZATION OR DATA 2407 01:50:01,631 --> 01:50:02,298 CURATION INVOLVED. 2408 01:50:02,298 --> 01:50:03,499 THE THIRD SESSION WAS DEDICATED 2409 01:50:03,499 --> 01:50:06,102 THE DISCUSSIONS OF THE LEVELS OF 2410 01:50:06,102 --> 01:50:09,071 EXPLANATION THAT CAN BE GAINED 2411 01:50:09,071 --> 01:50:13,342 FROM COORDINATED EFFORTS USING 2412 01:50:13,342 --> 01:50:14,877 PERTURBATION RECORDING AND 2413 01:50:14,877 --> 01:50:17,313 LEVELS OF EXPLANATION ACHIEVED 2414 01:50:17,313 --> 01:50:19,448 AND UNDERSTANDING THE 2415 01:50:19,448 --> 01:50:23,252 TOPOLOGICAL ARRANGEMENT USING 2416 01:50:23,252 --> 01:50:24,287 DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION AND HOW 2417 01:50:24,287 --> 01:50:25,755 IT CAN PROVIDE BIOMARKERS OF 2418 01:50:25,755 --> 01:50:27,323 DIRECT AND INDIRECT CONNECTIONS 2419 01:50:27,323 --> 01:50:29,859 AND ECOLOGICAL COMPUTATIONAL 2420 01:50:29,859 --> 01:50:32,795 PARADIGMS CAN BE USED BETWEEN 2421 01:50:32,795 --> 01:50:35,831 LEVELS OF UNDERSTANDING AND 2422 01:50:35,831 --> 01:50:37,700 TOPOLOGY CAN BETTER UNDERSTAND 2423 01:50:37,700 --> 01:50:40,469 DEPRESSION AND TRANSLATIONAL 2424 01:50:40,469 --> 01:50:42,171 IMPLICATIONS FOR THERAPEUTIC 2425 01:50:42,171 --> 01:50:43,339 NEURAL MODULATION. 2426 01:50:43,339 --> 01:50:45,574 THIS SETS THE STAGE FOR KEY 2427 01:50:45,574 --> 01:50:46,575 THEMES. 2428 01:50:46,575 --> 01:50:47,710 FIRSTLY, FOR PERTURBATION 2429 01:50:47,710 --> 01:50:49,011 STUDIES WHAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF 2430 01:50:49,011 --> 01:50:52,615 UNDERSTANDING NEURAL DYNAMICS. 2431 01:50:52,615 --> 01:50:55,151 WHEN PERTURBING DYNAMICAL 2432 01:50:55,151 --> 01:50:58,854 SYSTEMS IT THE CHANGE OUT OF ITS 2433 01:50:58,854 --> 01:50:59,889 HOMEOSTATIC STATE AND SINCE IT 2434 01:50:59,889 --> 01:51:02,658 HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR 2435 01:51:02,658 --> 01:51:04,126 UNDERSTANDING MECHANISMS HOW CAN 2436 01:51:04,126 --> 01:51:08,431 IT BE ALIGNED BY ANATOMY AND 2437 01:51:08,431 --> 01:51:10,132 DYNAMICAL STATE AND HOW CAN WE 2438 01:51:10,132 --> 01:51:12,969 DO THIS AND HOW CAN THIS BE 2439 01:51:12,969 --> 01:51:14,904 INFORMED BY THE THEORETICAL 2440 01:51:14,904 --> 01:51:15,204 FRAMEWORKS. 2441 01:51:15,204 --> 01:51:17,506 THERE WAS DISCUSSION 2442 01:51:17,506 --> 01:51:19,909 TECHNOLOGIES THAT MAY BE INCLUDE 2443 01:51:19,909 --> 01:51:22,878 APPROACH LIKE CLOSE LOOP MAY BE 2444 01:51:22,878 --> 01:51:23,913 INFORMATIVE AND THE MODELLING 2445 01:51:23,913 --> 01:51:26,549 MIGHT DEPEND ON THE LEVELS OF 2446 01:51:26,549 --> 01:51:27,883 EXPLANATION BEING SOUGHT. 2447 01:51:27,883 --> 01:51:30,619 FOR ONE TRYING TO DEVELOP A 2448 01:51:30,619 --> 01:51:32,254 CLINICAL INTERVENTION AND 2449 01:51:32,254 --> 01:51:34,023 UNDERSTANDING DYNAMICS. 2450 01:51:34,023 --> 01:51:36,559 ANOTHER THEME WAS HOW TO ACHIEVE 2451 01:51:36,559 --> 01:51:39,795 THE LEVELS OF EXPLANATION TO 2452 01:51:39,795 --> 01:51:40,730 ACCOUNT FOR DIFFERENCES 2453 01:51:40,730 --> 01:51:41,497 FOLLOWING UP FROM THE 2454 01:51:41,497 --> 01:51:42,832 DISCUSSIONS NOTICE FIRST TWO 2455 01:51:42,832 --> 01:51:44,300 SESSIONS FURTHER DISCUSSION OF 2456 01:51:44,300 --> 01:51:47,236 NEWER TOOLS TO DO PRECISION 2457 01:51:47,236 --> 01:51:48,871 FUNCTIONAL MAPPING IN WITH LESS 2458 01:51:48,871 --> 01:51:50,406 AMOUNT OF CLINICAL DATA FOR 2459 01:51:50,406 --> 01:51:52,541 CLINICAL COHORTS WHICH COULD BE 2460 01:51:52,541 --> 01:51:55,044 USEFUL TO ALIGN INDIVIDUALS NOT 2461 01:51:55,044 --> 01:51:59,515 JUST BASED ON ANATOMY AND 2462 01:51:59,515 --> 01:52:01,917 UNDERSTAN 2463 01:52:01,917 --> 01:52:03,552 UNDERSTAN 2464 01:52:03,552 --> 01:52:05,187 UNDERSTANDING INDIVIDUAL 2465 01:52:05,187 --> 01:52:06,822 RESPONSE AND STEPS THAT COULD 2466 01:52:06,822 --> 01:52:08,424 FACILITATE AND GENERATE 2467 01:52:08,424 --> 01:52:10,893 EXPLANATIONS WE ARE SEEKING. 2468 01:52:10,893 --> 01:52:12,862 THESE INCLUDE TASKS THAT ALIGN 2469 01:52:12,862 --> 01:52:14,764 WITH COMPUTATIONAL MODELS AND 2470 01:52:14,764 --> 01:52:16,332 DEVELOPING BETTER INFORMATICS 2471 01:52:16,332 --> 01:52:17,833 TOOLS TO ENHANCE MINING OF 2472 01:52:17,833 --> 01:52:19,502 STIMULATION DATA AND ACCESS TO 2473 01:52:19,502 --> 01:52:22,538 LARGER NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS 2474 01:52:22,538 --> 01:52:24,206 ACROSS SITES AS WELL AS THE SAME 2475 01:52:24,206 --> 01:52:25,608 STIMULATION SITES ACROSS PEOPLE 2476 01:52:25,608 --> 01:52:29,412 AND ACCESS TO BETTER MANUALLY 2477 01:52:29,412 --> 01:52:31,347 CURATED CONNECTOME ANALYSIS TO 2478 01:52:31,347 --> 01:52:33,049 ALIGN WITH STIMULATION DATA. 2479 01:52:33,049 --> 01:52:34,784 IN THE FOURTH DATA WE HAD A NICE 2480 01:52:34,784 --> 01:52:37,253 DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW A THEORY OF 2481 01:52:37,253 --> 01:52:40,356 MODELLING CAN BEST BE INTEGRATED 2482 01:52:40,356 --> 01:52:41,557 WITH PERTURBATION AND I'LL 2483 01:52:41,557 --> 01:52:42,825 SUMMARIZE THE SESSION. 2484 01:52:42,825 --> 01:52:44,527 IN TERMS OF THERE WAS A NICE 2485 01:52:44,527 --> 01:52:46,195 DISCUSSION OF A VARIETY OF TYPES 2486 01:52:46,195 --> 01:52:49,999 OF MODELS BOTH DATA DRIVEN AND 2487 01:52:49,999 --> 01:52:51,167 PHYSIOLOGICALLY REALISTIC FROM 2488 01:52:51,167 --> 01:52:52,835 NETWORK CONTROL MODELS TO 2489 01:52:52,835 --> 01:52:54,970 MULTI-SCALE MODELS AND HOW THEY 2490 01:52:54,970 --> 01:52:56,439 CANNOT ONLY INFORM STIMULATION 2491 01:52:56,439 --> 01:52:58,274 APPROACH AND CLINICAL AND 2492 01:52:58,274 --> 01:53:02,545 NON-CLINICAL CONTEXT BUT ALSO TO 2493 01:53:02,545 --> 01:53:03,579 BRIDGE SCALES OF UNDERSTANDING 2494 01:53:03,579 --> 01:53:05,448 AND WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT 2495 01:53:05,448 --> 01:53:07,550 THE BRAIN AND POTENTIALLY BE 2496 01:53:07,550 --> 01:53:09,919 ABLE TO PREDICT DYNAMICS AND 2497 01:53:09,919 --> 01:53:11,620 DATA BEYOND WHAT THE DATA MIGHT 2498 01:53:11,620 --> 01:53:15,658 REVEAL. 2499 01:53:15,658 --> 01:53:17,626 EXPERIMENTALLY AND HOW 2500 01:53:17,626 --> 01:53:20,362 COORDINATED EFFORTS WITH LARGER 2501 01:53:20,362 --> 01:53:21,464 SCALE AGGREGATION PLAY CREATE 2502 01:53:21,464 --> 01:53:24,066 DATA AT FINER SCALE AND ENABLE 2503 01:53:24,066 --> 01:53:25,968 VALIDATION IN A CAUSAL CONTEXT 2504 01:53:25,968 --> 01:53:27,369 AND ENRICH BEHAVIORAL MODELLING 2505 01:53:27,369 --> 01:53:29,772 ACROSS DOMAINS OF BEHAVIOR. 2506 01:53:29,772 --> 01:53:33,442 AND MAY BE HELPFUL IN DATA 2507 01:53:33,442 --> 01:53:35,277 COLLECTION THROUGH PROVIDING 2508 01:53:35,277 --> 01:53:36,378 SENSITIVITY ANALYSIS AROUND 2509 01:53:36,378 --> 01:53:37,413 VARIABLES THAT COULD BE 2510 01:53:37,413 --> 01:53:43,152 CHALLENGING TO FULLY EXPLORE 2511 01:53:43,152 --> 01:53:43,519 EXPERIMENTALLY. 2512 01:53:43,519 --> 01:53:45,621 THESE ARE NICELY OUTLINED 2513 01:53:45,621 --> 01:53:46,589 COORDINATED STIMULATION 2514 01:53:46,589 --> 01:53:48,357 RECORDING EFFORTS IN HUMANS. 2515 01:53:48,357 --> 01:53:49,625 THEY ALSO LAID THE FOUNDATION 2516 01:53:49,625 --> 01:53:51,660 FOR A DEEPER DIVE INTO PRACTICAL 2517 01:53:51,660 --> 01:53:53,195 CONSIDERATIONS NEEDED TO INFORM 2518 01:53:53,195 --> 01:53:55,097 SUCH COORDINATED EFFORTS. 2519 01:53:55,097 --> 01:53:57,766 AND SO AFTER THE BREAK WE'LL 2520 01:53:57,766 --> 01:53:59,435 TRANSITION TO PANEL DISCUSSIONS 2521 01:53:59,435 --> 01:54:00,703 FOCUSSED ON THIS AND SO EXAMPLES 2522 01:54:00,703 --> 01:54:03,272 OF TOPICS THAT MAY BE HELPFUL 2523 01:54:03,272 --> 01:54:04,406 FOR MORE IN DEPTH DISCUSSION 2524 01:54:04,406 --> 01:54:07,243 INCLUDE HOW AMENABLE THE VARIOUS 2525 01:54:07,243 --> 01:54:09,278 APPROACHES ARE TO 2526 01:54:09,278 --> 01:54:10,779 STANDARDIZATION ACROSS LABS. 2527 01:54:10,779 --> 01:54:16,352 WHAT EXPERIMENTAL PARADIGMS 2528 01:54:16,352 --> 01:54:20,356 FACILITATE EFFORTS AND ACCOUNT 2529 01:54:20,356 --> 01:54:26,929 FOR HETEROGENEITY IN THINGS LIKE 2530 01:54:26,929 --> 01:54:30,199 ELECTRODE PLACEMENT AND ACCOUNT 2531 01:54:30,199 --> 01:54:31,767 FOR DYNAMICS AND MEASURE. 2532 01:54:31,767 --> 01:54:33,302 THESE ARE A FEW EXAMPLES OF THE 2533 01:54:33,302 --> 01:54:37,406 TYPES OF QUESTIONS THAT MIGHT BE 2534 01:54:37,406 --> 01:54:41,043 FRUITFUL ONE IS ON INVASIVE AND 2535 01:54:41,043 --> 01:54:42,778 ANOTHER ON NONINVASIVE 2536 01:54:42,778 --> 01:54:43,979 APPROACHES AND SINCE THE TALKS 2537 01:54:43,979 --> 01:54:47,583 HAVE SET THE STAGE THE NEXT TWO 2538 01:54:47,583 --> 01:54:48,884 SESSIONS WILL HAVE A DISCUSSION 2539 01:54:48,884 --> 01:54:49,518 AMONG PANEL MEMBERS. 2540 01:54:49,518 --> 01:54:51,453 WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THE 2541 01:54:51,453 --> 01:54:52,421 DISCUSSIONS AND WE'LL RETURN FOR 2542 01:54:52,421 --> 01:54:54,690 THESE SESSIONS AFTER THE BREAK. 2543 01:54:54,690 --> 01:54:57,793 SO WE WILL SEE YOU BACK AT 1:00 2544 01:54:57,793 --> 01:54:59,328 P.M. EASTERN TIME AND I JUST 2545 01:54:59,328 --> 01:55:01,664 WANT TO THANK AGAIN ALL OF OUR PANELISTS, THIS MORNING AND 2546 01:55:01,664 --> 01:55:03,032 YESTERDAY FOR SOME FANTASTIC, ENGAGING AND ILLUMINATING DISCUSSIONS. 2547 01:55:03,032 --> 01:55:05,966 THANKS SO MUCH. SEE YOU SOON. 2548 01:55:08,655 --> 01:55:10,224 >> THAT TRANSITIONS TO OUR NEXT 2549 01:55:10,224 --> 01:55:11,992 DISCUSSION AND NICE WAY TO KICK 2550 01:55:11,992 --> 01:55:13,260 OFF THE DISCUSSION. 2551 01:55:13,260 --> 01:55:15,763 WELCOME BACK EVERYONE FROM THE 2552 01:55:15,763 --> 01:55:16,663 BREAK. 2553 01:55:16,663 --> 01:55:18,766 I'M HAPPY TO INTRODUCE OUR FINAL 2554 01:55:18,766 --> 01:55:21,568 TWO SESSIONS CONSISTENT OF PANEL 2555 01:55:21,568 --> 01:55:22,169 DISCUSSIONS SURROUNDING THE 2556 01:55:22,169 --> 01:55:25,139 PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS NEEDED 2557 01:55:25,139 --> 01:55:26,240 TO INFORM COORDINATED RECORDING 2558 01:55:26,240 --> 01:55:27,908 EFFORTS IN HUMANS. 2559 01:55:27,908 --> 01:55:30,477 YOU CAN SEE OUR FIRST SESSION 2560 01:55:30,477 --> 01:55:34,548 WILL FOCUS ON EVASIVE APPROACHES 2561 01:55:34,548 --> 01:55:38,018 CHAIRED BY DR. SHETH AND MEGAN 2562 01:55:38,018 --> 01:55:43,690 FRANKOWSKI AND THE SECOND ON NON 2563 01:55:43,690 --> 01:55:46,627 INVASIVE APPROACHES BY JOEL VOS 2564 01:55:46,627 --> 01:55:48,295 AND ERIN QUINLAN. 2565 01:55:48,295 --> 01:55:49,563 IF YOU'RE A PANELIST FOR THE 2566 01:55:49,563 --> 01:55:51,832 FIRST SESSION ON THE LEFT IF YOU 2567 01:55:51,832 --> 01:55:52,466 CAN PLEASE NOW TURN YOUR CAMERA 2568 01:55:52,466 --> 01:55:54,234 ON. 2569 01:55:54,234 --> 01:55:58,272 WITH THAT JOIN ME IN WELCOMING 2570 01:55:58,272 --> 01:56:00,908 OUR CHAIRS, DR. FOX AND 2571 01:56:00,908 --> 01:56:02,042 DR. FRANKOWSKI AND I'LL TURN IT 2572 01:56:02,042 --> 01:56:04,178 OVER TO YOU. 2573 01:56:04,178 --> 01:56:05,045 >> THANKS A LOT. 2574 01:56:05,045 --> 01:56:07,381 I HAVE THE PLEASURE OF KICKING 2575 01:56:07,381 --> 01:56:12,886 OFF THE THIS FIRST OF TWO 2576 01:56:12,886 --> 01:56:17,457 PRACTICAL SESSIONS YESTERDAY AND 2577 01:56:17,457 --> 01:56:18,692 THIS MORNING FILLED WITH 2578 01:56:18,692 --> 01:56:20,360 INTERESTING DISCUSSIONS. 2579 01:56:20,360 --> 01:56:22,596 THE HOPE NOW IS TO SYNTHESIZE 2580 01:56:22,596 --> 01:56:28,936 PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS. 2581 01:56:28,936 --> 01:56:31,138 IT'S GREAT TO BE JOINED BY 2582 01:56:31,138 --> 01:56:33,006 DR. MICHAEL FOX WHO SPOKE 2583 01:56:33,006 --> 01:56:36,243 YESTERDAY AND MODERATED THE 2584 01:56:36,243 --> 01:56:38,378 FIRST SESSION YESTERDAY FROM 2585 01:56:38,378 --> 01:56:40,347 BRIGHAM AND MASS GENERAL AND 2586 01:56:40,347 --> 01:56:43,884 MEGAN FRANKOWSKI FROM NINDS AND 2587 01:56:43,884 --> 01:56:46,286 OUR PANELISTS ARE FANTASTIC AND 2588 01:56:46,286 --> 01:56:48,555 I WANT TO JUST OVER THE COURSE 2589 01:56:48,555 --> 01:56:51,992 OF A MINUTE OR TWO MENTION WHO 2590 01:56:51,992 --> 01:56:54,761 THEY ARE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN 2591 01:56:54,761 --> 01:56:57,598 PREPARE FOR ALL THEIR GREAT 2592 01:56:57,598 --> 01:57:02,870 REMARKS AND DIVERSITY OF 2593 01:57:02,870 --> 01:57:04,805 BACKGROUND THOUGHT, EXPERIENCE 2594 01:57:04,805 --> 01:57:09,443 ACROSS THIS QUESTION HOW TO 2595 01:57:09,443 --> 01:57:11,144 STIMULATE AND RECORD AND INFORM 2596 01:57:11,144 --> 01:57:12,512 UNDERSTANDING OF THE BASIS OF 2597 01:57:12,512 --> 01:57:15,749 PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS. 2598 01:57:15,749 --> 01:57:21,755 WE HAVE THE NAMES HERE. 2599 01:57:21,755 --> 01:57:27,861 KARA JOHNSON WHO IS IN NEUROLOGY 2600 01:57:27,861 --> 01:57:33,267 AT UNIVERSITY IN FLORIDA AND HER 2601 01:57:33,267 --> 01:57:38,605 EXPERTISE IN NEURAL MODULATION 2602 01:57:38,605 --> 01:57:46,213 AND WE HAVE EXPERTISE IN BIO 2603 01:57:46,213 --> 01:57:47,915 ENGINEERING AND NEURAL 2604 01:57:47,915 --> 01:57:48,949 PHYSIOLOGICAL AND UNIVERSITY 2605 01:57:48,949 --> 01:57:53,553 FROM SUNSHINES IN NURSE SURGERY 2606 01:57:53,553 --> 01:57:54,721 AND BRINGING A PARTICULAR 2607 01:57:54,721 --> 01:57:59,693 BACKGROUND OF ENGINEERING AND 2608 01:57:59,693 --> 01:58:06,133 NEURAL DYNAMICS EXPERTISE AND 2609 01:58:06,133 --> 01:58:09,736 UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA WHO IS 2610 01:58:09,736 --> 01:58:11,405 AN EXPERT IN NEURAL 2611 01:58:11,405 --> 01:58:15,409 MONTHLYLATION OF MANY SORTS, 2612 01:58:15,409 --> 01:58:18,412 NEENKING AND PSYCHIATRIC 2613 01:58:18,412 --> 01:58:18,679 DISORDERS. 2614 01:58:18,679 --> 01:58:23,016 HELEN MAYBERG AT MOUNT SINAI IN 2615 01:58:23,016 --> 01:58:28,322 NEW YORK NEUROLOGY AND 2616 01:58:28,322 --> 01:58:30,290 PSYCHOLOGY AND EXPERIENCED 2617 01:58:30,290 --> 01:58:32,025 EXPERTISE IN THE NEURAL BASIS OF 2618 01:58:32,025 --> 01:58:33,126 DEPRESSION AND ITS TREATMENT 2619 01:58:33,126 --> 01:58:35,595 WITH A VARIETY OF TECHNIQUES AND 2620 01:58:35,595 --> 01:58:44,871 BRAIN CONNECTIVITY IN GENERAL. 2621 01:58:44,871 --> 01:58:46,673 STANFORD UNIVERSITY 2622 01:58:46,673 --> 01:58:49,977 REPRESENTATIVE WITH EXPERTISE IN 2623 01:58:49,977 --> 01:58:53,447 NEURAL MODULATION IN 2624 01:58:53,447 --> 01:58:55,682 NON-INVASIVE METHODS AND NEURAL 2625 01:58:55,682 --> 01:59:05,859 CIRCUITS. 2626 01:59:19,740 --> 01:59:21,108 >> DID WE LOSE SAMEER? 2627 01:59:21,108 --> 01:59:26,947 >> NO, I LOST MY POWER POINT. 2628 01:59:26,947 --> 01:59:37,257 ZOOM IS NEW TO ME. 2629 01:59:44,898 --> 01:59:51,671 WOE HAVE AN EXPERT IN BIOETHICS 2630 01:59:51,671 --> 01:59:58,412 AND DAMIEN FAIR WITH AN 2631 01:59:58,412 --> 01:59:59,679 EXPERTISE IN BRAIN RESEARCH WHO 2632 01:59:59,679 --> 02:00:06,720 IS REALLY AN EXPERT IN BAYESIAN 2633 02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:07,788 MODELLING AND MODELLING IN 2634 02:00:07,788 --> 02:00:08,021 GENERAL. 2635 02:00:08,021 --> 02:00:10,190 THERE'S A NUMBER OF TOPICS I 2636 02:00:10,190 --> 02:00:15,429 THINK WE CAN FOCUS THIS SESSION 2637 02:00:15,429 --> 02:00:20,934 ON DID A NICE JOB OF SUMMARIZING 2638 02:00:20,934 --> 02:00:23,270 THE FIRST DAY AND A HALF TO THIS 2639 02:00:23,270 --> 02:00:24,171 SESSION RIGHT BEFORE THE BREAK 2640 02:00:24,171 --> 02:00:28,708 AND I WANT TO PULL IN A COUPLE 2641 02:00:28,708 --> 02:00:30,277 THEMES FROM THAT AS WELL AS THE 2642 02:00:30,277 --> 02:00:32,646 DISCUSSION WE HAD AS A GROUP OF 2643 02:00:32,646 --> 02:00:34,314 PANELISTS A WEEK OR TWO AGO TO 2644 02:00:34,314 --> 02:00:38,885 JUST START FRAMING THE 2645 02:00:38,885 --> 02:00:41,621 DISCUSSION AND SUGGEST SOME 2646 02:00:41,621 --> 02:00:44,024 TOPICS TO FOCUS ON. 2647 02:00:44,024 --> 02:00:47,294 ONE IS THIS OPPORTUNITY ACROSS 2648 02:00:47,294 --> 02:00:48,095 ENVIRONMENTS SITUATION AND WE 2649 02:00:48,095 --> 02:00:51,298 TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE FIRST 2650 02:00:51,298 --> 02:00:52,365 TWO SESSIONS YESTERDAY. 2651 02:00:52,365 --> 02:00:55,735 WHAT I MEAN BY THIS IS KIND OF 2652 02:00:55,735 --> 02:00:58,138 THE EVOLUTION AND AMALGAMATION 2653 02:00:58,138 --> 02:00:59,673 OF DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS WITHIN 2654 02:00:59,673 --> 02:01:01,875 WHICH WE CAN STUDY THE 2655 02:01:01,875 --> 02:01:05,278 RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN NEURAL 2656 02:01:05,278 --> 02:01:10,417 DYNAMICS, SYMPTOMS/BEHAVIORS AND 2657 02:01:10,417 --> 02:01:20,927 THE PERTURBATIONS AND CAUSAL 2658 02:01:25,198 --> 02:01:26,233 MANIPULATIONS WE CAN USE THE 2659 02:01:26,233 --> 02:01:29,469 ONLY WAY TO STUDY BRAIN DYNAMICS 2660 02:01:29,469 --> 02:01:32,672 TO DO RECORDINGS AND 2661 02:01:32,672 --> 02:01:34,341 PERTURBATIONS AND STIMULATION OF 2662 02:01:34,341 --> 02:01:36,443 LESION, ETCETERA. 2663 02:01:36,443 --> 02:01:43,350 THE WORLD OF THE INTRA-HOSPITAL 2664 02:01:43,350 --> 02:01:52,225 AND ENVIRONMENTS LIKE THAT HE'S 2665 02:01:52,225 --> 02:01:54,361 BEEN THE WORKHORSE AND WE RECORD 2666 02:01:54,361 --> 02:01:55,262 DIVERSE REGIONS OF THE BRAIN AND 2667 02:01:55,262 --> 02:02:00,834 PERHAPS IN A SELECTED TYPE OF 2668 02:02:00,834 --> 02:02:02,869 PATIENT POPULATION BASED UP 2669 02:02:02,869 --> 02:02:04,171 EPILEPSY AND TALKED ABOUT WAYS 2670 02:02:04,171 --> 02:02:07,240 TO MITIGATE POTENTIAL BIAS AND 2671 02:02:07,240 --> 02:02:11,545 MANIPULATE CIRCUITS FOR CAUSAL 2672 02:02:11,545 --> 02:02:16,716 INFLUENCE AND WE HAVE DEVICES TO 2673 02:02:16,716 --> 02:02:27,260 RECORD AS WELL AS STIMULATE QUE 2674 02:02:28,695 --> 02:02:31,198 CAN DO PERTURBATIONS AND WE CAN 2675 02:02:31,198 --> 02:02:37,204 FOCUS THE DISCUSSION OF HOW TO 2676 02:02:37,204 --> 02:02:47,647 BETTER DESIGN WHAT COMMON 2677 02:02:58,391 --> 02:03:08,868 ELEMENTS TO LOOK ACROSS STUDIES 2678 02:03:16,076 --> 02:03:25,585 THE MORE WE SINK KNOW 2679 02:03:25,585 --> 02:03:36,096 SYNCHRONIZE TO AGGREGATE DATA. 2680 02:03:39,332 --> 02:03:41,101 WE ARE FRAMING DISORDERS AND 2681 02:03:41,101 --> 02:03:43,036 CLUSTERS OF SYSTEMS AND IN OTHER 2682 02:03:43,036 --> 02:03:45,839 WAYS THERE'S MANIFESTATIONS OF 2683 02:03:45,839 --> 02:03:49,809 CIRCUITS GONE AWRY AND THAT'S 2684 02:03:49,809 --> 02:03:51,845 PERHAPS ONE OF THE MORE USEFUL 2685 02:03:51,845 --> 02:03:53,113 WAYS OF THINKING ABOUT THEM AND 2686 02:03:53,113 --> 02:03:56,750 WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE 2687 02:03:56,750 --> 02:03:57,751 FIRST SESSION YESTERDAY. 2688 02:03:57,751 --> 02:04:00,587 HOW DO WE LOOK AT COMMONALITIES 2689 02:04:00,587 --> 02:04:03,256 ACROSS CIRCUITS AND 2690 02:04:03,256 --> 02:04:06,126 UNDERSTANDING SIMILARITIES AT A 2691 02:04:06,126 --> 02:04:08,261 CIRCUIT LEVEL BETWEEN DISORDERS 2692 02:04:08,261 --> 02:04:09,729 AND MODELLING WITH ACTUAL 2693 02:04:09,729 --> 02:04:13,099 COMPUTATIONAL AND QUANTITATIVE 2694 02:04:13,099 --> 02:04:13,433 METHODS. 2695 02:04:13,433 --> 02:04:15,168 HOW NECESSARY ARE BOTH OF THESE 2696 02:04:15,168 --> 02:04:16,803 AND HOW SUFFICIENT ARE EITHER OF 2697 02:04:16,803 --> 02:04:17,103 THESE. 2698 02:04:17,103 --> 02:04:18,538 ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS. 2699 02:04:18,538 --> 02:04:22,342 BY THAT I DON'T NECESSARILY MEAN 2700 02:04:22,342 --> 02:04:24,444 TO DEFINE BY THE OPPOSITE OF 2701 02:04:24,444 --> 02:04:27,681 ETHICAL I DON'T THINK WE'RE 2702 02:04:27,681 --> 02:04:34,587 TALKING ETHICAL VERSUS UNETHICAL 2703 02:04:34,587 --> 02:04:37,057 BUT HOW TO BRING CAREGIVERS' 2704 02:04:37,057 --> 02:04:37,957 INTERESTS INTO THE CONVERSATION 2705 02:04:37,957 --> 02:04:41,728 IN A VERY INTENTIONAL WAY. 2706 02:04:41,728 --> 02:04:43,263 HOW MUCH ARE THE STUDIES AND ADD 2707 02:04:43,263 --> 02:04:47,167 TO THE BURDEN OF THE INDIVIDUALS 2708 02:04:47,167 --> 02:04:49,636 ALREADY DEALING TO HELP TREAT 2709 02:04:49,636 --> 02:04:51,404 AND HOW TO WE CONSIDER THEM 2710 02:04:51,404 --> 02:04:52,405 PARTNERS IN THE RESEARCH AND 2711 02:04:52,405 --> 02:04:54,474 BENEFICIARY FOR THE RESEARCH AND 2712 02:04:54,474 --> 02:04:55,675 PARTNERS IN DEVELOPING THE KIND 2713 02:04:55,675 --> 02:04:57,644 OF QUESTIONS WE WANT TO SPEND 2714 02:04:57,644 --> 02:05:00,880 AND STUDYING THINGS THAT ARE 2715 02:05:00,880 --> 02:05:01,181 MEANINGFUL. 2716 02:05:01,181 --> 02:05:03,650 ARE THEY ALSO OWNERS OF SOME OF 2717 02:05:03,650 --> 02:05:10,690 THE DATA AND THE PROPERTIES. 2718 02:05:10,690 --> 02:05:12,058 I'LL STOP WITH THAT. 2719 02:05:12,058 --> 02:05:14,728 WE'LL SEE IF THEY WANT TO ADD 2720 02:05:14,728 --> 02:05:16,763 COMMENTS IN TERMS OF FRAMING THE 2721 02:05:16,763 --> 02:05:17,397 DISCUSSION AND THEN OPENING IT 2722 02:05:17,397 --> 02:05:19,666 UP. 2723 02:05:19,666 --> 02:05:22,335 >> NO, BRILLIANT SET OF 2724 02:05:22,335 --> 02:05:24,404 QUESTIONS AND TOPICS AND AT THE 2725 02:05:24,404 --> 02:05:26,039 END OF THE WORKSHOP MOVING 2726 02:05:26,039 --> 02:05:27,240 TOWARDS PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS 2727 02:05:27,240 --> 02:05:27,674 AS WELL. 2728 02:05:27,674 --> 02:05:29,342 HOW DO WE BALANCE OUR WISH LIST 2729 02:05:29,342 --> 02:05:31,444 OF EVERYTHING WE MIGHT WANT TO 2730 02:05:31,444 --> 02:05:32,912 COLLECT WITH A MORE PRACTICAL 2731 02:05:32,912 --> 02:05:34,681 LIST OF WHAT MAY BE ACHIEVABLE 2732 02:05:34,681 --> 02:05:36,249 AT SCALE. 2733 02:05:36,249 --> 02:05:39,352 I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR WHAT OUR 2734 02:05:39,352 --> 02:05:44,924 PANELISTS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT. 2735 02:05:44,924 --> 02:05:46,693 >> MEGAN, ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT 2736 02:05:46,693 --> 02:05:46,960 TO ADD. 2737 02:05:46,960 --> 02:05:48,928 >> NOTHING ADDITIONAL I AGREE 2738 02:05:48,928 --> 02:05:51,030 WITH WHAT MICHAEL SAID AT THE 2739 02:05:51,030 --> 02:05:52,832 GLOBAL LEVEL OF WHAT WE CAN DO 2740 02:05:52,832 --> 02:05:55,435 TO GET AS MUCH AS THIS USE OF WE 2741 02:05:55,435 --> 02:05:57,170 CAN AND WHAT WOULD BE NEEDED 2742 02:05:57,170 --> 02:06:00,573 FROM AN ORGANIZATIONAL AND 2743 02:06:00,573 --> 02:06:01,808 INSTITUTION LEVEL AND RESEARCH, 2744 02:06:01,808 --> 02:06:12,285 RESOURCE LEVEL AND FUNDERS. 2745 02:06:31,337 --> 02:06:34,974 >> DOES ANYONE WANT TO START? 2746 02:06:34,974 --> 02:06:39,045 ALL RIGHT. 2747 02:06:39,045 --> 02:06:42,882 HOW WITH THIS ISSUE OF AND THIS 2748 02:06:42,882 --> 02:06:45,752 ISSUE OF THE DIFFERENT 2749 02:06:45,752 --> 02:06:47,754 ENVIRONMENTS TO BE HAD. 2750 02:06:47,754 --> 02:06:49,689 WE HAVE MINUTES TO HOURS AND 2751 02:06:49,689 --> 02:06:50,824 MINUTES TO TENS OF MINUTES AND 2752 02:06:50,824 --> 02:06:55,228 WITHIN THE MIDDLE OF A SURGICAL 2753 02:06:55,228 --> 02:06:59,098 PROCEDURE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE 2754 02:06:59,098 --> 02:07:02,335 HOURS AND DAYS IN AN IN-PATIENT 2755 02:07:02,335 --> 02:07:05,038 SETTING WITH INDIVIDUALS IN THE 2756 02:07:05,038 --> 02:07:09,476 EXAMPLE FOR SITUATIONS AND THEN 2757 02:07:09,476 --> 02:07:15,682 WE HAVE WEEKS AND MONTHS AND 2758 02:07:15,682 --> 02:07:18,151 YEARS IN INDIVIDUALS WHERE 2759 02:07:18,151 --> 02:07:19,686 INDIVIDUALS ARE LIVING THUR 2760 02:07:19,686 --> 02:07:23,289 LIVES. 2761 02:07:23,289 --> 02:07:25,525 HOW CAN WE DESIGN STUDIES TO 2762 02:07:25,525 --> 02:07:27,560 TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THESE 2763 02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:29,262 COMPLIMENTARY ABILITIES THAT WE 2764 02:07:29,262 --> 02:07:31,297 HAD ACROSS THE ENVIRONMENTS TO 2765 02:07:31,297 --> 02:07:32,232 LEARN SOMETHING MEANINGFUL? 2766 02:07:32,232 --> 02:07:35,568 BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE ANY 2767 02:07:35,568 --> 02:07:38,972 PARTICULAR DYSFUNCTION DISORDER 2768 02:07:38,972 --> 02:07:43,977 OR OPATHY WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND 2769 02:07:43,977 --> 02:07:46,012 IT IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE 2770 02:07:46,012 --> 02:07:47,146 ACROSS THE TIME SCALE AND 2771 02:07:47,146 --> 02:07:48,014 DOESN'T DEPEND ON WHAT TIME 2772 02:07:48,014 --> 02:07:49,716 SCALE YOU LOOK AT. 2773 02:07:49,716 --> 02:07:57,090 THE DISORDER'S NOT CHANGING 2774 02:07:57,090 --> 02:08:05,131 BASED ON THE TEMPORAL LINES. 2775 02:08:05,131 --> 02:08:07,767 >> I WANT TO REFRAME IT A LITTLE 2776 02:08:07,767 --> 02:08:09,502 BIT OTHERWISE I THINK WE'LL ALL 2777 02:08:09,502 --> 02:08:11,704 CONTINUE TO NOT KNOW WHEN TO 2778 02:08:11,704 --> 02:08:11,938 JUMP IN. 2779 02:08:11,938 --> 02:08:14,607 I THINK WHAT I LEARNED FROM ALL 2780 02:08:14,607 --> 02:08:17,076 THE OTHER SESSIONS WAS IS YOUR 2781 02:08:17,076 --> 02:08:18,344 QUESTION HOW TO UNDERSTAND HOW 2782 02:08:18,344 --> 02:08:23,516 THE BRAIN WORKS AND THEN WE CAN 2783 02:08:23,516 --> 02:08:24,551 DISCUSS AT WHAT LEVEL OF 2784 02:08:24,551 --> 02:08:31,457 RESOLUTION BUT I'M GOING TO COME 2785 02:08:31,457 --> 02:08:34,594 IN FROM MY POINT OF VIEW IF WE 2786 02:08:34,594 --> 02:08:35,828 HAVE A CLINICAL PROBLEM AND WANT 2787 02:08:35,828 --> 02:08:38,231 TO SOLVE IT WE WANT TO KNOW HOW 2788 02:08:38,231 --> 02:08:40,967 IT WORK NOT JUST SO WE CAN DO 2789 02:08:40,967 --> 02:08:42,135 WHAT WE'RE DOING BETTER, IT WILL 2790 02:08:42,135 --> 02:08:44,737 LEAD TO UNDERSTANDING THE 2791 02:08:44,737 --> 02:08:47,273 DISEASE MODEL, IE, HOW THE BRAIN 2792 02:08:47,273 --> 02:08:51,678 WORKS BUT IT WILL ALSO 2793 02:08:51,678 --> 02:08:55,848 POTENTIALLY SCALE AND GENERALIZE 2794 02:08:55,848 --> 02:09:00,486 TO OTHER NEURAL MODULATION OR 2795 02:09:00,486 --> 02:09:01,487 NEURAL DEVICE INDICATIONS FOR 2796 02:09:01,487 --> 02:09:02,522 THE APPLICATION. 2797 02:09:02,522 --> 02:09:03,556 SINCE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE ON 2798 02:09:03,556 --> 02:09:05,091 THIS THAT STUDY DEPRESSION, 2799 02:09:05,091 --> 02:09:08,027 THAT'S THE ONLY THING I KNOW 2800 02:09:08,027 --> 02:09:09,362 ABOUT, THAT THAT USE CASE KIND 2801 02:09:09,362 --> 02:09:13,366 OF COVERS THIS IDEA OF ALL THE 2802 02:09:13,366 --> 02:09:15,969 DIFFERENT LEVELS. 2803 02:09:15,969 --> 02:09:17,770 SO IN THE MOST INVASIVE SPACE 2804 02:09:17,770 --> 02:09:19,672 WHERE YOU HAVE THE MOST 2805 02:09:19,672 --> 02:09:21,374 OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN THE MOST 2806 02:09:21,374 --> 02:09:22,508 ABOUT THE BRAIN BUT ONLY FOR A 2807 02:09:22,508 --> 02:09:24,944 SORT PERIOD OF TIME. 2808 02:09:24,944 --> 02:09:26,713 THE NEW DEVICE ALSO LETS YOU GO 2809 02:09:26,713 --> 02:09:28,982 NOT QUITE AS GOOD ABOUT THE 2810 02:09:28,982 --> 02:09:31,184 BRAIN BUT YOU CAN COLLECT 2811 02:09:31,184 --> 02:09:37,190 INFORMATION ALL THE TIME LIKE 2812 02:09:37,190 --> 02:09:38,224 WITH THE SENSING SYSTEMS AND 2813 02:09:38,224 --> 02:09:39,692 WHAT IS PRACTICAL AND WHAT DO 2814 02:09:39,692 --> 02:09:42,328 YOU WANT TO KNOW AND HOW OFTEN 2815 02:09:42,328 --> 02:09:43,663 DO YOU COLLECT IT BECAUSE YOU 2816 02:09:43,663 --> 02:09:45,365 HAVE TO GET THE BUY-IN OF THE 2817 02:09:45,365 --> 02:09:50,303 COLLABORATOR, THE PATIENT, WHO 2818 02:09:50,303 --> 02:09:51,904 IS REALLY HAS INTEREST TO HAVE 2819 02:09:51,904 --> 02:09:55,675 THIS THING TO GET THEM BETTER. 2820 02:09:55,675 --> 02:09:59,412 BUT WHAT WE'RE CLEARLY LEARNING 2821 02:09:59,412 --> 02:10:02,448 IS THAT GETTING BEST IS 2822 02:10:02,448 --> 02:10:03,583 DIFFERENT AND WHAT YOU KNOW 2823 02:10:03,583 --> 02:10:05,318 ABOUT THE BRAIN IS DIFFERENT THE 2824 02:10:05,318 --> 02:10:06,419 LONGER YOU HAVE THE DEVICE. 2825 02:10:06,419 --> 02:10:11,924 SO IF YOU HAVE AN IMPLANTED 2826 02:10:11,924 --> 02:10:13,226 DEVICE IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT 2827 02:10:13,226 --> 02:10:15,194 SETTING OF THE TRAJECTORY OF 2828 02:10:15,194 --> 02:10:15,962 EXPERIMENT BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY 2829 02:10:15,962 --> 02:10:26,172 INDEFINITE. 2830 02:10:27,073 --> 02:10:28,741 IF YOU HAVE AN EXPERIMENT THAN 2831 02:10:28,741 --> 02:10:32,045 INTIMATE THE DESIGN IS 2832 02:10:32,045 --> 02:10:32,712 DIFFERENT. 2833 02:10:32,712 --> 02:10:34,747 I WANT IT MAKE SURE THAT'S THERE 2834 02:10:34,747 --> 02:10:36,182 ALONG THE CONTINUUM BECAUSE 2835 02:10:36,182 --> 02:10:37,450 FRANKLY THE PATIENT WILL 2836 02:10:37,450 --> 02:10:40,153 CONTINUE TO HELP YOU 2837 02:10:40,153 --> 02:10:40,687 INDEFINITELY IF THERE'S 2838 02:10:40,687 --> 02:10:42,422 SOMETHING IN IT FOR THEM AND 2839 02:10:42,422 --> 02:10:44,757 THAT MAY BE LESS ABOUT KNOWING 2840 02:10:44,757 --> 02:10:50,530 HOW THE BRAIN WORKS BUT INFORMED 2841 02:10:50,530 --> 02:10:53,399 OF HOW IT WORKS AND WHERE PEOPLE 2842 02:10:53,399 --> 02:10:55,668 CAN SHARE DATA BECAUSE DIFFERENT 2843 02:10:55,668 --> 02:10:59,605 PEOPLE WILL ENTER INTO THE 2844 02:10:59,605 --> 02:11:01,441 LINEAR DYNAMICAL SYSTEM GOING 2845 02:11:01,441 --> 02:11:07,046 FORWARD AT DIFFERENT EPICS. 2846 02:11:07,046 --> 02:11:14,020 SO IT MAY BE THAT NON-INVASIVE 2847 02:11:14,020 --> 02:11:17,356 MODULATION COMES CLOSE TO A 2848 02:11:17,356 --> 02:11:18,624 MODULATION STORY. 2849 02:11:18,624 --> 02:11:19,792 I CAN OFFER A SOLUTION BUT 2850 02:11:19,792 --> 02:11:21,027 WANTED TO FRAME IT I KNOW I'M 2851 02:11:21,027 --> 02:11:26,899 GOING TO THINK ABOUT THIS ENTIRE 2852 02:11:26,899 --> 02:11:28,701 DISCUSSION THROUGH THAT POINT OF 2853 02:11:28,701 --> 02:11:28,901 VIEW. 2854 02:11:28,901 --> 02:11:30,570 IT'S NOT ONE EXPERIMENT BUT 2855 02:11:30,570 --> 02:11:31,604 ONGOING SERIES OF EXPERIMENTS 2856 02:11:31,604 --> 02:11:33,573 AND PATIENT WILL HELP IF I THAT 2857 02:11:33,573 --> 02:11:38,111 SEEK IT'S ADDED VALUE FOR THEM 2858 02:11:38,111 --> 02:11:40,713 AND I'M HAPPY TO SHARE WHAT KIND 2859 02:11:40,713 --> 02:11:42,115 OF DATA PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO DO 2860 02:11:42,115 --> 02:11:44,517 AND WHETHER IT'S VALUABLE OR NOT 2861 02:11:44,517 --> 02:11:45,084 IN THE BIG PICTURE. 2862 02:11:45,084 --> 02:11:55,228 THANKS. 2863 02:12:09,308 --> 02:12:14,680 >> BUILDING OFF WHAT HELEN SAID 2864 02:12:14,680 --> 02:12:19,685 NOT EITHER/OR AND OUR COLLEAGUES 2865 02:12:19,685 --> 02:12:21,187 IN GENOMICS HAVE THE PROBLEM OF 2866 02:12:21,187 --> 02:12:23,523 HOW TO REASSEMBLE A COMPLETE 2867 02:12:23,523 --> 02:12:26,125 VIEW OF THE SYSTEM WHEN I KEEP 2868 02:12:26,125 --> 02:12:27,460 GETTING LITTLE FRAGMENTS. 2869 02:12:27,460 --> 02:12:29,428 WHAT DID THEY DO WHEN THEY 2870 02:12:29,428 --> 02:12:30,563 INVENTED SHOTGUN SEQUENCING AND 2871 02:12:30,563 --> 02:12:32,832 THEY INVENTED THE IDEA IF YOU 2872 02:12:32,832 --> 02:12:36,569 CAN FIND ENOUGH OVERLAP YOU CAN 2873 02:12:36,569 --> 02:12:39,672 EVENTUALLY BUILD THE COMPLETE 2874 02:12:39,672 --> 02:12:40,139 STORY. 2875 02:12:40,139 --> 02:12:43,109 SO I'M GLAD CORY HAS THEIR HAND 2876 02:12:43,109 --> 02:12:44,777 UP BECAUSE SOME OF THIS WORK IS 2877 02:12:44,777 --> 02:12:47,280 AN EXAMPLE OF THAT WE HAVE TWO 2878 02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:50,216 TECHNIQUES BEING USED TOGETHER. 2879 02:12:50,216 --> 02:12:57,490 WHAT WE DON'T DO WE DO AT fMRI 2880 02:12:57,490 --> 02:13:00,660 WORK OR DEVICE-BASED RECORDING 2881 02:13:00,660 --> 02:13:02,762 WORK BUT DON'T OFTEN HAVE THE 2882 02:13:02,762 --> 02:13:05,164 CASE WE DO BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY 2883 02:13:05,164 --> 02:13:09,902 AND NO THE SAME SIGNAL LOOKS 2884 02:13:09,902 --> 02:13:12,638 LIKE DURING EEG AND ONBOARD 2885 02:13:12,638 --> 02:13:13,973 DEVICE AND THROUGH fMRI AT THE 2886 02:13:13,973 --> 02:13:18,678 SAME TIME. 2887 02:13:18,678 --> 02:13:22,348 NOW, OBVIOUSLY EACH ONE OF 2888 02:13:22,348 --> 02:13:27,653 THOSE -- LIKE DOING ONE MODALITY 2889 02:13:27,653 --> 02:13:30,857 AND WITH AN AND IS EXPONENTIALLY 2890 02:13:30,857 --> 02:13:32,358 HARDER AND A PLACE WHERE WE 2891 02:13:32,358 --> 02:13:33,926 WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT EACH 2892 02:13:33,926 --> 02:13:34,727 CAN TELL TO ANOTHER. 2893 02:13:34,727 --> 02:13:45,104 THE WAY TO GET THERE. 2894 02:13:49,976 --> 02:13:51,677 >> YOU HAVE EXPERIMENTS THAT ARE 2895 02:13:51,677 --> 02:13:52,778 NOT CONTINUOUS ALL THE TIME. 2896 02:13:52,778 --> 02:14:00,186 WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS? 2897 02:14:00,186 --> 02:14:02,121 >> IT COMES DOWN TO SCALES AND 2898 02:14:02,121 --> 02:14:03,689 WE HEARD FROM OUR MODELERS 2899 02:14:03,689 --> 02:14:07,126 FRIENDS AND WHEN WE THINK OF 2900 02:14:07,126 --> 02:14:08,294 TEMPORAL SCALES IN THE 2901 02:14:08,294 --> 02:14:10,129 LONGITUDINAL MONITORING, YOU CAN 2902 02:14:10,129 --> 02:14:12,832 ONLY DO SOME THINGS SO WELL. 2903 02:14:12,832 --> 02:14:17,003 SO YES, WE CAN MEASURE 2904 02:14:17,003 --> 02:14:26,746 INTRACRANIAL AND SCALP EDG AND 2905 02:14:26,746 --> 02:14:34,620 SOME LOOK AT LONGER TERM 2906 02:14:34,620 --> 02:14:35,354 LONGITUD 2907 02:14:35,354 --> 02:14:36,188 LONGITUD 2908 02:14:36,188 --> 02:14:39,125 LONGITUDINAL MEASUREMENT AND WE 2909 02:14:39,125 --> 02:14:40,626 NEED TO ALIGN WITH COLLEAGUES TO 2910 02:14:40,626 --> 02:14:44,530 FOCUS ON OUR EXPERTISE AND BE IN 2911 02:14:44,530 --> 02:14:46,065 DISCUSSION WITH SPATIAL AND 2912 02:14:46,065 --> 02:14:47,700 TEMPORAL SCALE TO PUT THIS ALL 2913 02:14:47,700 --> 02:14:47,967 TOGETHER. 2914 02:14:47,967 --> 02:14:50,236 IT'S ALL VERY DIFFICULT. 2915 02:14:50,236 --> 02:14:53,105 AND SO WHEN WE THINK OF 2916 02:14:53,105 --> 02:14:53,940 INTRAOPERATIVE IT'S A DIFFERENT 2917 02:14:53,940 --> 02:14:56,642 SKILL SET THAN LOOKING AT 2918 02:14:56,642 --> 02:14:58,444 LONGITUDINAL MONITORING LIKE 2919 02:14:58,444 --> 02:14:59,679 HELEN DOES OVER MONTHS TO YEARS 2920 02:14:59,679 --> 02:15:01,013 AND IT'S HARD TO DO IT ALL 2921 02:15:01,013 --> 02:15:11,223 REALLY WELL. 2922 02:15:14,226 --> 02:15:15,594 ALL RIGHT, COOL POINT. 2923 02:15:15,594 --> 02:15:21,067 AND I THINK I'M NOT USED TO 2924 02:15:21,067 --> 02:15:22,635 SEEING A LOT OF GRANTS AND 2925 02:15:22,635 --> 02:15:24,236 PROJECTS LIKE THIS GROUP WILL DO 2926 02:15:24,236 --> 02:15:26,072 THE ACUTE AND PRODUCT THING AND 2927 02:15:26,072 --> 02:15:30,776 WE ALL ARE TRYING TO DO BOTH 2928 02:15:30,776 --> 02:15:36,816 IT'S LIKE A PARADIGM OF 2929 02:15:36,816 --> 02:15:40,152 COLLABORATION WHERE THE TIME 2930 02:15:40,152 --> 02:15:40,586 SCALES DIFFERENT. 2931 02:15:40,586 --> 02:15:47,660 IS THAT ONE THING YOU WERE 2932 02:15:47,660 --> 02:15:48,427 REFERRING TO? 2933 02:15:48,427 --> 02:15:55,735 OKAY. 2934 02:15:55,735 --> 02:16:00,439 >> WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS 2935 02:16:00,439 --> 02:16:03,309 TRECH ALONG THE SAME LINES AS AC 2936 02:16:03,309 --> 02:16:05,044 EX AND CORY AND THINKING ABOUT 2937 02:16:05,044 --> 02:16:07,680 THE DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS AND 2938 02:16:07,680 --> 02:16:09,248 ACUTE VERSUS LONGITUDINAL IT 2939 02:16:09,248 --> 02:16:13,386 WOULD BE HELPFUL I THINK FOR A 2940 02:16:13,386 --> 02:16:15,688 LOT OF PEOPLE HERE AND WHO ARE 2941 02:16:15,688 --> 02:16:19,191 NOT HERE IF THERE WERE SOME SORT 2942 02:16:19,191 --> 02:16:23,562 OF GUIDANCES TO WHETHER WE CAN 2943 02:16:23,562 --> 02:16:24,830 ADD THINGS LIKE AN fMRI PROTOCOL 2944 02:16:24,830 --> 02:16:27,733 AND PATIENT ENROLLED IN A STUDY 2945 02:16:27,733 --> 02:16:29,435 AND THERE'S A LOT OF LOGISTICS 2946 02:16:29,435 --> 02:16:30,302 THAT GO INTO IT HIT BUT FOR 2947 02:16:30,302 --> 02:16:34,440 INSTANCE WE GET IMAGING ON EVERY 2948 02:16:34,440 --> 02:16:44,950 PATIENT WE DO DBS OR ESEG WE 2949 02:16:54,860 --> 02:16:56,996 WERE ALL DOING THE SAME THING 2950 02:16:56,996 --> 02:17:02,134 WITH THE PARAMETERS AND COULD BE 2951 02:17:02,134 --> 02:17:04,270 WE HAVE NON-INVASIVE PEOPLE 2952 02:17:04,270 --> 02:17:04,970 DOING TMS. 2953 02:17:04,970 --> 02:17:10,443 SHOULD THEY BE BUILT INTO 2954 02:17:10,443 --> 02:17:13,679 PROTOCOLS SOME EMS PROTOCOL. 2955 02:17:13,679 --> 02:17:16,415 THESE ARE THINGS IN THE 2956 02:17:16,415 --> 02:17:20,486 COLLABORATIVE SPIRIT SPECIALLY 2957 02:17:20,486 --> 02:17:31,030 DOABLE AND CAN BE USEFUL AND TOE 2958 02:17:49,748 --> 02:17:55,354 ADD TO THE SKUGS A DIFFERENT 2959 02:17:55,354 --> 02:17:59,992 PERSPECTIVE, I THINK THERE'S 2960 02:17:59,992 --> 02:18:01,093 BEEN SCIENTIFIC QUESTIONS AND 2961 02:18:01,093 --> 02:18:02,561 DESIGNING THE EXPERIMENTS BUT 2962 02:18:02,561 --> 02:18:04,196 THERE'S ALSO A MAJOR OPPORTUNITY 2963 02:18:04,196 --> 02:18:08,000 IN USING THE DATA THAT WE 2964 02:18:08,000 --> 02:18:11,170 COLLECT AS PART OF CLINICAL 2965 02:18:11,170 --> 02:18:11,370 CARE. 2966 02:18:11,370 --> 02:18:15,074 THAT'S WHAT WE FOCUSSED IN OUR 2967 02:18:15,074 --> 02:18:17,076 LAB AND THE INTRAOPERATIVE AND 2968 02:18:17,076 --> 02:18:19,011 HOSPITAL ENVIRONMENT OF USING 2969 02:18:19,011 --> 02:18:23,449 THE IMAGING AND 2970 02:18:23,449 --> 02:18:26,986 ELECTROPHYSIOLOGICAL RECORDINGS 2971 02:18:26,986 --> 02:18:28,888 AND DO TEST STIMULATION AND 2972 02:18:28,888 --> 02:18:30,990 RECORDINGS OF LFPs DURING THOSE. 2973 02:18:30,990 --> 02:18:34,059 THERE'S TONS OF DATA WE COLLECT 2974 02:18:34,059 --> 02:18:35,528 AND I'M SURE OTHER CENTERS 2975 02:18:35,528 --> 02:18:37,997 COLLECT AS WELL THAT COULD BE 2976 02:18:37,997 --> 02:18:41,233 POTENTIALLY AGGREGATED ACROSS 2977 02:18:41,233 --> 02:18:41,867 CENTERS. 2978 02:18:41,867 --> 02:18:46,005 THAT'S ONE ADVANTAGE I SUPPOSE 2979 02:18:46,005 --> 02:18:48,274 OF THE INTRAHOSPITAL ENVIRONMENT 2980 02:18:48,274 --> 02:18:49,608 IS WE HAVE A LOT OF DATA THAT 2981 02:18:49,608 --> 02:18:51,644 ALREADY EXISTS JUST THAT WE CAN 2982 02:18:51,644 --> 02:18:59,018 COLLECT DURING STANDARD OF CARE. 2983 02:18:59,018 --> 02:19:03,255 >> PERFECT, THANKS. 2984 02:19:03,255 --> 02:19:03,923 >> IT'S FUN HEARING THE 2985 02:19:03,923 --> 02:19:06,058 CONSENSUS AROUND THE IDEA OF 2986 02:19:06,058 --> 02:19:11,197 OPEN DATA AND DATA SHARING IN 2987 02:19:11,197 --> 02:19:15,034 THIS SPACE BECAUSE THIS IS A 2988 02:19:15,034 --> 02:19:16,936 CHALLENGE AND CULTURE CHANGE AND 2989 02:19:16,936 --> 02:19:18,537 BEFORE IT CAN BE REALIZED. 2990 02:19:18,537 --> 02:19:22,408 ON TOP OF JUST THE IDEA OF THE 2991 02:19:22,408 --> 02:19:26,045 DATA SHARING IS KIND OF TOOLS OF 2992 02:19:26,045 --> 02:19:26,712 INFORMATICS INFRASTRUCTURE TO 2993 02:19:26,712 --> 02:19:28,480 SET STANDARDS AND MAKE IT PEOPLE 2994 02:19:28,480 --> 02:19:30,849 TO SHARE DATA IS SOMETHING THAT 2995 02:19:30,849 --> 02:19:36,722 NOW IN NEURAL IMAGING IS 2996 02:19:36,722 --> 02:19:38,624 BECOMING MORE COMMON. 2997 02:19:38,624 --> 02:19:42,328 IN OTHER SPACES FOR LIKE NEURAL 2998 02:19:42,328 --> 02:19:43,696 PHYS AND OTHER DATA THAT MAY 2999 02:19:43,696 --> 02:19:44,730 COME OUT IT'S LESS. 3000 02:19:44,730 --> 02:19:49,034 AND THE REALITY IS LIKE THE DATA 3001 02:19:49,034 --> 02:19:51,003 BEING COLLECTED AND I'M GETTING 3002 02:19:51,003 --> 02:19:53,172 A REALITY CHECK BECAUSE WE'RE 3003 02:19:53,172 --> 02:19:56,175 LOOKING AT THE DATA IT'S 3004 02:19:56,175 --> 02:19:57,977 MASSIVE. 3005 02:19:57,977 --> 02:20:02,448 THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION IS 3006 02:20:02,448 --> 02:20:03,015 HUGE. 3007 02:20:03,015 --> 02:20:05,884 THERE'S A WHOLE INFORMATICS 3008 02:20:05,884 --> 02:20:06,986 INFRASTRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE 3009 02:20:06,986 --> 02:20:08,520 BUILT TO REALIZE THE IDEA OF 3010 02:20:08,520 --> 02:20:09,488 SHARING AND LEARNING FROM EACH 3011 02:20:09,488 --> 02:20:12,091 OTHER AND GRABBING PIECES OF 3012 02:20:12,091 --> 02:20:14,360 DATA FROM OTHER GROUPS AND ONCE 3013 02:20:14,360 --> 02:20:18,264 YOU HAVE THAT THEN THE POTENTIAL 3014 02:20:18,264 --> 02:20:18,564 ACCELERATES. 3015 02:20:18,564 --> 02:20:20,532 SO I LIKE THE DISCUSSION BUT 3016 02:20:20,532 --> 02:20:22,668 THERE'S THIS LAYER. 3017 02:20:22,668 --> 02:20:25,337 AND YOU NOTICE -- I DON'T KNOW 3018 02:20:25,337 --> 02:20:27,539 HOW MANY INFORMATICS PEOPLE ARE 3019 02:20:27,539 --> 02:20:30,109 ON THE CALL BUT THAT'S PROBABLY 3020 02:20:30,109 --> 02:20:32,511 ONE OF THE BOTTLENECKS TO BE 3021 02:20:32,511 --> 02:20:34,246 SOLVED TO MAKE THE REALITY OF 3022 02:20:34,246 --> 02:20:36,815 THE DATA SHARING COME TRUE. 3023 02:20:36,815 --> 02:20:45,057 >> YEAH, THAT'S SUPER IMPORTANT. 3024 02:20:45,057 --> 02:20:46,659 CLINICAL TRIALS, NINDS IS 3025 02:20:46,659 --> 02:20:52,631 IMPORTANT TO PLUG INTO THIS 3026 02:20:52,631 --> 02:20:52,865 EXAMPLE. 3027 02:20:52,865 --> 02:20:58,637 THE IDEA AND WE NEED A SIMILAR 3028 02:20:58,637 --> 02:21:01,407 INFRASTRUCTURE FOR AGGREGATING 3029 02:21:01,407 --> 02:21:07,179 AND STORING AND ANALYZING DATA. 3030 02:21:07,179 --> 02:21:09,882 IT WOULD ALLOW GROUPS THAT DON'T 3031 02:21:09,882 --> 02:21:12,584 HAVE THAT EXPERTISE TO PLUG INTO 3032 02:21:12,584 --> 02:21:13,952 IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM AVAILABLE 3033 02:21:13,952 --> 02:21:14,353 TO GROUPS. 3034 02:21:14,353 --> 02:21:17,089 >> THAT'S PART OF IT AND THE 3035 02:21:17,089 --> 02:21:19,992 OTHER PART IS THAT WHEN YOU ARE 3036 02:21:19,992 --> 02:21:22,061 SHARING THE DATA IT SITS ON TOP 3037 02:21:22,061 --> 02:21:24,663 OF A BASIC STANDARD TO THE BASIC 3038 02:21:24,663 --> 02:21:28,133 INFORMATION CAN BE AGGREGATED. 3039 02:21:28,133 --> 02:21:32,104 I USED TO MAKE A JOKE AND I HAVE 3040 02:21:32,104 --> 02:21:34,273 ALL THESE Ph.D.s AND POSTDOC AND 3041 02:21:34,273 --> 02:21:35,541 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRAINING FOR 3042 02:21:35,541 --> 02:21:38,310 THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS AND WHAT 3043 02:21:38,310 --> 02:21:40,779 THEY'RE DOING HALF THEIR TIME IS 3044 02:21:40,779 --> 02:21:41,814 FIGURING OUT HOW TO CONNECT THE 3045 02:21:41,814 --> 02:21:49,021 DATA ALL TOGETHER. 3046 02:21:49,021 --> 02:21:52,324 AND FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS IF YOU 3047 02:21:52,324 --> 02:22:00,099 CAN GET THE CULTURE TO SHIFT YOU 3048 02:22:00,099 --> 02:22:02,568 WILL HAVE Ph.D.s DOING WORK. 3049 02:22:02,568 --> 02:22:04,169 THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE BASIC 3050 02:22:04,169 --> 02:22:07,005 STANDARDS IN CULTURE SHIFT AND 3051 02:22:07,005 --> 02:22:09,875 THEN ALL THIS CAN BECOME MUCH 3052 02:22:09,875 --> 02:22:10,943 MORE FEASIBLE. 3053 02:22:10,943 --> 02:22:18,217 >> IF I CAN PULL A THREAD FOR 3054 02:22:18,217 --> 02:22:21,220 ANOTHER ROUND, THERE ARE NIH 3055 02:22:21,220 --> 02:22:23,222 FUNDED DATA ARCHIVES RIGHT NOW 3056 02:22:23,222 --> 02:22:27,126 WHETHER AS THE GENOMICS OR OTHER 3057 02:22:27,126 --> 02:22:27,326 DATA. 3058 02:22:27,326 --> 02:22:29,728 I'M GUESSING THERE'S SOMETHING 3059 02:22:29,728 --> 02:22:33,599 THAT THEY'RE MISSING TO MAKE 3060 02:22:33,599 --> 02:22:38,704 THESE COMMENTS, RIGHT. 3061 02:22:38,704 --> 02:22:44,510 WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS THAT WILL 3062 02:22:44,510 --> 02:22:45,744 WOULD HELP [INDISCERNIBLE]. 3063 02:22:45,744 --> 02:22:48,080 >> PART OF THAT IS 3064 02:22:48,080 --> 02:22:48,447 STANDARDIZATION. 3065 02:22:48,447 --> 02:22:48,814 >> YEAH. 3066 02:22:48,814 --> 02:22:51,283 THAT'S RIGHT AND THE TOOLS TO BE 3067 02:22:51,283 --> 02:22:53,952 ABLE TO HANDLE -- WE'RE NOT 3068 02:22:53,952 --> 02:22:57,089 GOING TO BE NECESSARILY BUILDING 3069 02:22:57,089 --> 02:22:59,458 IT OURSELVES BUT IF SOMEONE HAS 3070 02:22:59,458 --> 02:23:01,493 TOOLS FOR THE MASSIVE DATA TYPES 3071 02:23:01,493 --> 02:23:03,662 OUT HERE BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO IT 3072 02:23:03,662 --> 02:23:03,929 OURSELVES. 3073 02:23:03,929 --> 02:23:08,000 THAT'S GOT TO BE SOMEBODY WITH 3074 02:23:08,000 --> 02:23:09,868 THE RIGHT TOOLS TO LEVERAGE FOR 3075 02:23:09,868 --> 02:23:20,078 THE PURPOSE. 3076 02:23:40,265 --> 02:23:44,570 >> THERE TO BE DATA TO BE USEFUL 3077 02:23:44,570 --> 02:23:45,971 ACROSS MODALITIES BUT IT'S 3078 02:23:45,971 --> 02:23:48,707 IMPORTANT FROM THE BEGINNING TO 3079 02:23:48,707 --> 02:23:51,710 FIGURE OUT HOW TO EXPLAIN THESE 3080 02:23:51,710 --> 02:23:56,281 THINGS IN A WAY THAT THE 3081 02:23:56,281 --> 02:23:57,182 PATIENTS CAN BECOME PARTNERS 3082 02:23:57,182 --> 02:24:00,819 AROUND IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT 3083 02:24:00,819 --> 02:24:05,023 HAVING PATIENTS ALSO PROVIDING 3084 02:24:05,023 --> 02:24:06,892 DATA LONG-TERM THAT WE START 3085 02:24:06,892 --> 02:24:09,595 BUILDING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS 3086 02:24:09,595 --> 02:24:10,329 EARLY ON. 3087 02:24:10,329 --> 02:24:13,332 THEY ARE OFTEN TIMES UNDERGOING 3088 02:24:13,332 --> 02:24:14,399 CERTAIN CLINICAL PROCEDURES THAT 3089 02:24:14,399 --> 02:24:17,169 ARE IN THIS CASE WE'RE TALKING 3090 02:24:17,169 --> 02:24:22,174 ABOUT INVASIVE TECHNOLOGIES. 3091 02:24:22,174 --> 02:24:24,943 THESE ARE THINGS THAT WILL 3092 02:24:24,943 --> 02:24:26,245 THEY'VE BEEN TRYING MANY 3093 02:24:26,245 --> 02:24:26,912 DIFFERENT THINGS BEFORE THEY GET 3094 02:24:26,912 --> 02:24:37,356 TO A LOT OF THESE STUDIES. 3095 02:24:38,023 --> 02:24:42,828 IF WE'RE GOING TO DO A SERIES OF 3096 02:24:42,828 --> 02:24:43,462 EXPERIMENTS AND COLLECT DATA 3097 02:24:43,462 --> 02:24:46,098 LATER WE HAVE A WAY TO HELP 3098 02:24:46,098 --> 02:24:47,466 COMMUNICATE WHAT ARE EACH OF 3099 02:24:47,466 --> 02:24:48,901 THESE STUDIES HELPING PROVIDE 3100 02:24:48,901 --> 02:24:54,439 AND WHAT IS IT AS RESEARCHERS 3101 02:24:54,439 --> 02:25:04,983 WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH AND 3102 02:25:18,263 --> 02:25:19,431 START WORKING FROM THE PATIENTS 3103 02:25:19,431 --> 02:25:21,867 FROM THE BEGINNING AND HELPING 3104 02:25:21,867 --> 02:25:23,936 UNDERSTAND THE EXPERIMENTS AND 3105 02:25:23,936 --> 02:25:24,870 HOW THEY CONTRIBUTE TO WHAT 3106 02:25:24,870 --> 02:25:30,809 WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE. 3107 02:25:30,809 --> 02:25:33,445 >> I THINK WE'VE ALL SEEN AND 3108 02:25:33,445 --> 02:25:37,716 THIS IS A NEW THING SUBJECTS, 3109 02:25:37,716 --> 02:25:38,884 PATIENTS, PARTICIPANTS AND 3110 02:25:38,884 --> 02:25:40,752 CO-AUTHORS ON PAPERS EVEN PART 3111 02:25:40,752 --> 02:25:41,153 OF GRANTS. 3112 02:25:41,153 --> 02:25:48,193 CERTAIN PARTICIPANTS AND 3113 02:25:48,193 --> 02:25:49,061 WORKSHOPS. 3114 02:25:49,061 --> 02:25:54,900 OKAY. 3115 02:25:54,900 --> 02:25:58,136 >> MY EXPERIENCE IS ON DBS 3116 02:25:58,136 --> 02:26:00,105 STUDIES LONG TERM AND REQUIRE 3117 02:26:00,105 --> 02:26:02,441 EFFORTS FROM PATIENTS TO DO 3118 02:26:02,441 --> 02:26:03,542 RECORDINGS AND MONITOR THEIR 3119 02:26:03,542 --> 02:26:03,775 DEVICES. 3120 02:26:03,775 --> 02:26:06,178 WE NEED TO THINK HOW TO MAKE IT 3121 02:26:06,178 --> 02:26:11,350 WORTH IT FOR THE PATIENTS LONG 3122 02:26:11,350 --> 02:26:21,893 TERM AND SOME PATIENTS MAKE THIS 3123 02:26:23,061 --> 02:26:25,530 PART OF THEIR ROUTINE AND ONCE 3124 02:26:25,530 --> 02:26:27,666 THEY GET BETTER IT FALLS A PART 3125 02:26:27,666 --> 02:26:28,834 BUT IT'S THEY'RE BETTER BUT 3126 02:26:28,834 --> 02:26:31,670 THEY'RE NOT REALLY PARTICIPATING 3127 02:26:31,670 --> 02:26:33,005 IN THE RESEARCH AT THE SAME 3128 02:26:33,005 --> 02:26:34,339 LEVEL ANYMORE. 3129 02:26:34,339 --> 02:26:35,574 IT'S IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER 3130 02:26:35,574 --> 02:26:36,642 CHANGING THE PROTOCOL DEPENDING 3131 02:26:36,642 --> 02:26:38,110 ON THE CLINICAL STATUS OF THE 3132 02:26:38,110 --> 02:26:40,112 PATIENT BUT ALSO THINKING ABOUT 3133 02:26:40,112 --> 02:26:42,481 HOW DO WE MAKE THIS WORTH IT FOR 3134 02:26:42,481 --> 02:26:42,881 PATIENTS. 3135 02:26:42,881 --> 02:26:44,616 HOW MUCH DO WE COMPENSATE 3136 02:26:44,616 --> 02:26:46,118 PATIENTS FOR TIME AT HOME AND 3137 02:26:46,118 --> 02:26:47,886 FILLING OUT SELF-REPORT SURVEYS 3138 02:26:47,886 --> 02:26:48,887 AND DOING OTHER ACTIVITIES AT 3139 02:26:48,887 --> 02:26:58,997 HOME. 3140 02:27:03,869 --> 02:27:04,936 THEY'VE BEEN THINKING HOW TO 3141 02:27:04,936 --> 02:27:07,039 BACK UP OUR DATA IN A BETTER 3142 02:27:07,039 --> 02:27:07,439 WAY. 3143 02:27:07,439 --> 02:27:10,409 SO IN THE ENU WHEN YOU HAVE A 3144 02:27:10,409 --> 02:27:15,647 PATIENT FOR 10 DAYS AND THEN 3145 02:27:15,647 --> 02:27:18,917 DATA COLLECTION IS OVER YOU 3146 02:27:18,917 --> 02:27:21,386 DON'T GET MORE DATA YOU ZIP UP 3147 02:27:21,386 --> 02:27:25,090 THE FOLDER AND SEND IT TO THE 3148 02:27:25,090 --> 02:27:27,893 CLOUD OR BACKUP SERVICE BUT AT 3149 02:27:27,893 --> 02:27:30,028 THAT POINT IN THE NEW PATIENT 3150 02:27:30,028 --> 02:27:31,830 YOU MIGHT CONSIDER SHARING THE 3151 02:27:31,830 --> 02:27:34,199 DATA BUT IN DBS STUDIES WHEN THE 3152 02:27:34,199 --> 02:27:35,934 EXPERIMENT IS ESSENTIALLY 3153 02:27:35,934 --> 02:27:37,436 INDEFINITE AT WHAT POINT DO YOU 3154 02:27:37,436 --> 02:27:38,837 BACK IT UP? 3155 02:27:38,837 --> 02:27:40,906 AT WHAT POINT DO YOU SHARE IT. 3156 02:27:40,906 --> 02:27:43,775 AND A LOT OF THE DATA WE COLLECT 3157 02:27:43,775 --> 02:27:46,078 IS NOT EXACTLY A PART OF A 3158 02:27:46,078 --> 02:27:50,749 CLINICAL TRIAL PER SE, LIKE KARA 3159 02:27:50,749 --> 02:27:56,555 WAS SAYING WE RECORD ON TOP OF 3160 02:27:56,555 --> 02:28:02,527 ONGOING CLINICAL CARE. 3161 02:28:02,527 --> 02:28:03,662 WHAT ABOUT THE DATA SENT DON'T 3162 02:28:03,662 --> 02:28:06,598 HAVE A FIVE-YEAR, TWO-YEAR END 3163 02:28:06,598 --> 02:28:07,499 POINT AND HOW DO YOU SHARE THAT 3164 02:28:07,499 --> 02:28:17,776 AND ORGANIZE IT? 3165 02:28:22,180 --> 02:28:27,652 >> THE BRAIN SOMETHING ABOUT THE 3166 02:28:27,652 --> 02:28:32,858 BRAIN MAY HAVE TO CHANGE AND THE 3167 02:28:32,858 --> 02:28:35,127 WINDOW IS ONE HOUR AND YOU'LL 3168 02:28:35,127 --> 02:28:36,795 SEE SOMETHING BUT IF THAT HOUR 3169 02:28:36,795 --> 02:28:39,831 IS ONE OF MANY HOURS STREWN 3170 02:28:39,831 --> 02:28:41,133 ACROSS MONTHS AND YEARS OF 3171 02:28:41,133 --> 02:28:43,001 COURSE THE NEURAL CIRCUITRY IS 3172 02:28:43,001 --> 02:28:43,201 PRAS. 3173 02:28:43,201 --> 02:28:43,835 NOT CHANGING AND THE EXPERIMENT 3174 02:28:43,835 --> 02:28:54,045 IS ONGOING. 3175 02:29:03,722 --> 02:29:09,394 >> SORRY, I THOUGHT THERE WERE 3176 02:29:09,394 --> 02:29:19,805 OTHER PEOPLE BEFORE ME. 3177 02:29:22,507 --> 02:29:24,309 >> BACK TO THE DATA CRITICAL 3178 02:29:24,309 --> 02:29:26,778 GOING BACK TO THE RESOURCES AND 3179 02:29:26,778 --> 02:29:28,713 I THINK BACK TO THE CLINICAL 3180 02:29:28,713 --> 02:29:30,682 ISSUE OF WHAT DO YOU WANT TO 3181 02:29:30,682 --> 02:29:31,650 SAVE AND WHY? 3182 02:29:31,650 --> 02:29:34,953 I THINK THERE'S A HOARDING 3183 02:29:34,953 --> 02:29:35,954 PHENOMENON IF YOU COLLECT DATA 3184 02:29:35,954 --> 02:29:41,226 ARE YOU POINTING AT ME, ELLEN, 3185 02:29:41,226 --> 02:29:42,794 IT'S THE FEAR OF MISSING OUT. 3186 02:29:42,794 --> 02:29:45,697 WE ALL HAVE OCD AND NEED A 3187 02:29:45,697 --> 02:29:47,165 DEVICE FOR OUR OCD. 3188 02:29:47,165 --> 02:29:49,935 WE DESIGN AN IDEA AND KNOW WE 3189 02:29:49,935 --> 02:29:51,770 DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING AND ADD 3190 02:29:51,770 --> 02:29:52,370 MORE DATA. 3191 02:29:52,370 --> 02:29:56,808 WE'RE DROWNING IN DATA AND 3192 02:29:56,808 --> 02:29:58,977 CERTAIN THINGS WE INTRINSICALLY 3193 02:29:58,977 --> 02:30:01,413 KNOW IS ENOUGH. 3194 02:30:01,413 --> 02:30:03,248 WE KNOW FROM THE EXPERIENCE THE 3195 02:30:03,248 --> 02:30:05,116 MOST IMPORTANT DATA BUT THE 3196 02:30:05,116 --> 02:30:07,285 SCIENTIFIC MINDS SAY WE'RE 3197 02:30:07,285 --> 02:30:08,386 THOUGHT THAT SMART. 3198 02:30:08,386 --> 02:30:09,621 SOME SMARTER PERSON WILL LOOK AT 3199 02:30:09,621 --> 02:30:10,889 OUR DATA AND KNOW WHAT THEY 3200 02:30:10,889 --> 02:30:11,957 WOULD DO WITH OUR DATA. 3201 02:30:11,957 --> 02:30:13,525 I FEEL THAT WAY EVERY TIME I 3202 02:30:13,525 --> 02:30:14,459 LISTEN TO THE MODELERS. 3203 02:30:14,459 --> 02:30:17,762 THEY'LL COME UP WITH A NEW MODEL 3204 02:30:17,762 --> 02:30:26,805 IN AN UNSUPERVISED OR DATA 3205 02:30:26,805 --> 02:30:29,274 DRIVEN AWAY OPPOSED TO WHAT I 3206 02:30:29,274 --> 02:30:30,442 WANT TO SAVE. 3207 02:30:30,442 --> 02:30:32,878 IT'S CLEAN DATA SETS OF IMAGING. 3208 02:30:32,878 --> 02:30:34,913 I WANT A RULE BOOK THAT SAYS 3209 02:30:34,913 --> 02:30:36,014 COLLECT IT THIS WAY. 3210 02:30:36,014 --> 02:30:38,617 ENOUGH EXPERTS KNOW IT'S GOOD. 3211 02:30:38,617 --> 02:30:41,586 LIKE ABCD OR THE HUMAN 3212 02:30:41,586 --> 02:30:42,120 CONNECTOME DID. 3213 02:30:42,120 --> 02:30:44,756 I'M SURE THERE'S A BETTER WAY 3214 02:30:44,756 --> 02:30:46,258 BUT THAT'S A GOOD ENOUGH WAY AND 3215 02:30:46,258 --> 02:30:49,928 IF EVERYBODY AGREED TO I AGREE 3216 02:30:49,928 --> 02:30:51,796 ON SOMETHING UNDER THE SAME 3217 02:30:51,796 --> 02:30:55,533 DEVICE, THEN YOU GET MAYBE NOT 3218 02:30:55,533 --> 02:30:57,469 THE ONLY COMMON DATA ELEMENTS 3219 02:30:57,469 --> 02:31:00,005 BUT YOU GET SOME KEEPER COMMON 3220 02:31:00,005 --> 02:31:10,548 DATA ELEMENTS AND WHEN THERE'S A 3221 02:31:13,184 --> 02:31:14,185 SHARED EQUIPMENT EVERYBODY WOULD 3222 02:31:14,185 --> 02:31:17,222 LEARN IS IT HIGH ENOUGH 3223 02:31:17,222 --> 02:31:19,090 RESOLUTION, IS IT ACCURATE AND 3224 02:31:19,090 --> 02:31:19,324 PRECISE? 3225 02:31:19,324 --> 02:31:22,193 YOU LEARN IN WHAT DIRECTION TO 3226 02:31:22,193 --> 02:31:27,933 THROW IT ALL OUT AND START 3227 02:31:27,933 --> 02:31:33,638 TOTALLY OVER OR ITERATE AROUND 3228 02:31:33,638 --> 02:31:35,473 AND WE KEEP SAYING WE'LL COLLECT 3229 02:31:35,473 --> 02:31:37,642 IT THIS WAY AND NEVER GET TO 3230 02:31:37,642 --> 02:31:39,844 WHERE WE PICK SOMETHING WE ALL 3231 02:31:39,844 --> 02:31:41,980 AGREE TO DO EXCEPT THE HAMILTON 3232 02:31:41,980 --> 02:31:43,348 DEPRESSION RATING SCALE WHICH WE 3233 02:31:43,348 --> 02:31:49,387 KNOW DOESN'T GET AT WHAT WE WANT 3234 02:31:49,387 --> 02:31:49,621 EITHER. 3235 02:31:49,621 --> 02:32:00,065 THE OTHER THING IS I HAVE 3236 02:32:02,267 --> 02:32:05,036 PATIENTS WHO CONTINUE TO COLLECT 3237 02:32:05,036 --> 02:32:07,772 DATA EVERY DAY, TWICE A DAY, 3238 02:32:07,772 --> 02:32:09,808 BRING DATA, VIDEOS, WHY? 3239 02:32:09,808 --> 02:32:11,609 BECAUSE I'M GOING TO TAKE 3240 02:32:11,609 --> 02:32:13,044 SOMETHING AWAY FROM THEM? 3241 02:32:13,044 --> 02:32:13,211 NO. 3242 02:32:13,211 --> 02:32:14,245 THEY'RE HEARING THE GOAL IS AND 3243 02:32:14,245 --> 02:32:14,846 THEY'RE WORRIED. 3244 02:32:14,846 --> 02:32:16,815 CAN YOU HAVE A SIGNAL THAT WILL 3245 02:32:16,815 --> 02:32:19,517 TELL ME I'M GETTING INTO 3246 02:32:19,517 --> 02:32:19,751 TROUBLE? 3247 02:32:19,751 --> 02:32:21,152 NOT THAT JUST DOES SOMETHING 3248 02:32:21,152 --> 02:32:21,353 ALONE. 3249 02:32:21,353 --> 02:32:23,855 WHEN I FEEL BAD I CAN CHECK MY 3250 02:32:23,855 --> 02:32:25,657 DEVICE, MAYBE I KNOW WHAT IT IS. 3251 02:32:25,657 --> 02:32:27,926 WHAT DATA DO I NEED SO THAT 3252 02:32:27,926 --> 02:32:29,194 PATIENT HAS THAT AND COLLECT THE 3253 02:32:29,194 --> 02:32:35,667 DATA TO HELP US SOLVE IT. 3254 02:32:35,667 --> 02:32:37,302 OR WHAT'S A WAY TO KNOW THERE'S 3255 02:32:37,302 --> 02:32:39,304 AN ALARM AND ADVANCE BEFORE THEY 3256 02:32:39,304 --> 02:32:40,405 KNOW ANYTHING'S WRONG. 3257 02:32:40,405 --> 02:32:41,339 THEY'LL COLLECT THE DATA TO HELP 3258 02:32:41,339 --> 02:32:43,675 US KNOW THAT BECAUSE THAT MEANS 3259 02:32:43,675 --> 02:32:44,809 THEY WON'T KNOW. 3260 02:32:44,809 --> 02:32:47,645 THAT ALSO TELLS US HOW WE PUSH 3261 02:32:47,645 --> 02:32:50,382 THE FUNDERS, THE REGULATORS, THE 3262 02:32:50,382 --> 02:32:52,650 DEVICE BUILDERS TO BUILD US 3263 02:32:52,650 --> 02:32:54,919 STUFF THAT WE NEED WHETHER WE'VE 3264 02:32:54,919 --> 02:32:56,554 IDENTIFIED THINGS WE WANT. 3265 02:32:56,554 --> 02:32:58,890 SO THE PATIENTS DO TELL US WHY 3266 02:32:58,890 --> 02:33:00,825 THEY WANT THESE DEVICES OTHER 3267 02:33:00,825 --> 02:33:05,196 THAN MAKE ME WELL AND THAT 3268 02:33:05,196 --> 02:33:07,265 INFORMS THE DATA AND WE ALL 3269 02:33:07,265 --> 02:33:09,200 AGREE, YEAH, I DON'T THINK 3270 02:33:09,200 --> 02:33:11,703 THAT'S COOL AND I'LL GET A FIVE 3271 02:33:11,703 --> 02:33:14,406 ON MY INNOVATION LINE ON MY 3272 02:33:14,406 --> 02:33:15,607 GRANT AND THAT'S INFORMATION 3273 02:33:15,607 --> 02:33:16,775 EVERYBODY CAN SHARE AND BUILD A 3274 02:33:16,775 --> 02:33:21,346 MODEL AND THROW IT OUT OR SAVE 3275 02:33:21,346 --> 02:33:24,082 IT AND SOMEBODY SMARTER COMES IN 3276 02:33:24,082 --> 02:33:25,717 BUT JUST HAVING AN ORTHOGONAL 3277 02:33:25,717 --> 02:33:31,022 CONVERSATION FOR A WHILE AND 3278 02:33:31,022 --> 02:33:33,792 IT'S BECAUSE THE STRAIGHTFORWARD 3279 02:33:33,792 --> 02:33:36,928 THINGS WE FIGURED OUT AREN'T 3280 02:33:36,928 --> 02:33:38,263 COOL ENOUGH BUT CAN HELP SOLVE 3281 02:33:38,263 --> 02:33:39,631 THE PROBLEMS TO MAKE PATIENTS 3282 02:33:39,631 --> 02:33:50,175 COLLECT MORE DATA FOR US LATER. 3283 02:33:50,442 --> 02:33:51,676 >> THANKS, HELEN. 3284 02:33:51,676 --> 02:33:51,843 WES. 3285 02:33:51,843 --> 02:33:54,145 >> I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO SAID 3286 02:33:54,145 --> 02:33:58,116 THIS AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT 3287 02:33:58,116 --> 02:33:59,651 COLLECTING MULTIPLE MODALITIES 3288 02:33:59,651 --> 02:34:02,087 TO INFORM EACH OTHER AND THAT'S 3289 02:34:02,087 --> 02:34:04,255 DIFFICULT AND NOT MANY WILL DO 3290 02:34:04,255 --> 02:34:04,456 THIS. 3291 02:34:04,456 --> 02:34:07,192 THIS NOT MY FIELD SO A QUESTION. 3292 02:34:07,192 --> 02:34:11,696 WHAT ARE OTHER WAYS THE STUDIES 3293 02:34:11,696 --> 02:34:15,733 COULD BE DESIGN TO MAXIMALLY 3294 02:34:15,733 --> 02:34:17,068 INFORM AND NOT JUST A COLLECTION 3295 02:34:17,068 --> 02:34:19,270 OF STUDIES BUT DESIGN FEATURES 3296 02:34:19,270 --> 02:34:23,241 OR ELEMENTS OR DATA YOU COULD 3297 02:34:23,241 --> 02:34:24,309 COLLECT THAT COULD INFORM THE 3298 02:34:24,309 --> 02:34:26,678 DIFFERENT TYPES OF STUDIES 3299 02:34:26,678 --> 02:34:36,387 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. 3300 02:34:36,387 --> 02:34:46,798 THERE'S A LINE OF HANDS. 3301 02:34:52,370 --> 02:34:54,405 >> I RAISED MY REAL HAND AND GOT 3302 02:34:54,405 --> 02:34:56,174 PROMOTED TO THE FRONT OF THE 3303 02:34:56,174 --> 02:34:56,407 HINE. 3304 02:34:56,407 --> 02:34:58,576 IT ALIGNS WITH WHAT I WAS GOING 3305 02:34:58,576 --> 02:35:01,112 TO ASK TO MAKE PRACTICAL MOVES 3306 02:35:01,112 --> 02:35:03,748 FORWARD TOWARDS THIS COORDINATED 3307 02:35:03,748 --> 02:35:05,617 EFFORT AND THERE'S A LIMITLESS 3308 02:35:05,617 --> 02:35:07,952 NUMBER OF COOL SCIENTIFIC THINGS 3309 02:35:07,952 --> 02:35:09,020 WE COULD DO INCLUDING 3310 02:35:09,020 --> 02:35:10,989 MULTI-MODAL COLLECTIONS THAT 3311 02:35:10,989 --> 02:35:12,090 ALLOW US TO TRANSCEND DIFFERENT 3312 02:35:12,090 --> 02:35:14,058 LEVEL OF RECORDING AND 3313 02:35:14,058 --> 02:35:15,960 STIMULATION AND ANALYSES. 3314 02:35:15,960 --> 02:35:18,363 AND A HIGH HANGING FRUIT AND I 3315 02:35:18,363 --> 02:35:20,899 WAS STRUCK BY WHAT DAMIEN SAID 3316 02:35:20,899 --> 02:35:21,933 THERE ARE CERTAIN EXAMPLES WHERE 3317 02:35:21,933 --> 02:35:24,135 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO 3318 02:35:24,135 --> 02:35:29,841 STANDARDIZE PARAMETERS AND 3319 02:35:29,841 --> 02:35:31,843 COLLECTIONS AND GABRIEL'S POINT 3320 02:35:31,843 --> 02:35:33,311 ABOUT THESE ARE CLINICAL 3321 02:35:33,311 --> 02:35:35,547 PATIENTS AND WE HAVE TO REMEMBER 3322 02:35:35,547 --> 02:35:36,748 THERE'S COOL NEUROSCIENCE WE CAN 3323 02:35:36,748 --> 02:35:37,849 DO BUT THE PATIENTS THAT JUST 3324 02:35:37,849 --> 02:35:39,617 WANT TO GET BETTER. 3325 02:35:39,617 --> 02:35:41,853 I'M TRYING TO ORGANIZE PEOPLE'S 3326 02:35:41,853 --> 02:35:43,221 COMMENTS INTO ALMOST LOW-HANGING 3327 02:35:43,221 --> 02:35:46,324 FRUIT FOR A COORDINATED EFFORT. 3328 02:35:46,324 --> 02:35:48,159 THINGS CLOSE TO SOME TYPE OF 3329 02:35:48,159 --> 02:35:50,061 STANDARD WE CAN DO ACROSS 3330 02:35:50,061 --> 02:35:52,063 DIFFERENT SITES. 3331 02:35:52,063 --> 02:35:55,667 MAYBE IMAGING OR STIMULATION 3332 02:35:55,667 --> 02:35:56,601 SITE CLOSE TO THE LOW-HANGING 3333 02:35:56,601 --> 02:35:58,102 FRUIT AND ON THE CLINICAL SIDE 3334 02:35:58,102 --> 02:36:00,838 MAYBE THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT IS 3335 02:36:00,838 --> 02:36:02,540 THE STUFF WE CAN COLLECT 3336 02:36:02,540 --> 02:36:07,645 INVOLVED IN THE CARE IS THEIR 3337 02:36:07,645 --> 02:36:09,080 DEPRESSION OR PARKINSON'S 3338 02:36:09,080 --> 02:36:10,248 DISEASE SCORE GETTING BETTER AND 3339 02:36:10,248 --> 02:36:12,183 AT THE TOP OF THE FREE AN 3340 02:36:12,183 --> 02:36:14,185 ENDLESS NUMBER OF NEUROSCIENCE 3341 02:36:14,185 --> 02:36:16,354 THINGS WE CAN DO OR COLLECT AND 3342 02:36:16,354 --> 02:36:18,122 MAYBE THEY'RE HARDER TO 3343 02:36:18,122 --> 02:36:19,224 STANDARDIZE AND COLLECT IN A 3344 02:36:19,224 --> 02:36:20,792 COORDINATED WAY AND HARDER TO 3345 02:36:20,792 --> 02:36:23,461 STORE OR GET ETHICALLY BECAUSE 3346 02:36:23,461 --> 02:36:24,229 THEY'RE NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN 3347 02:36:24,229 --> 02:36:26,231 THE CLINICAL CARE. 3348 02:36:26,231 --> 02:36:28,533 I THROW THAT OUT AS WE THINK HOW 3349 02:36:28,533 --> 02:36:29,767 WE MOVE TOWARDS THE COORDINATED 3350 02:36:29,767 --> 02:36:38,076 EFFORT. 3351 02:36:38,076 --> 02:36:41,613 >> AS A DIRECT COMMENT ON TO 3352 02:36:41,613 --> 02:36:44,282 THAT AND ADDING TO THE THINGS 3353 02:36:44,282 --> 02:36:45,083 HELEN WAS SAYING. 3354 02:36:45,083 --> 02:36:47,418 ONE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW WE DO 3355 02:36:47,418 --> 02:36:48,119 NEURAL STIMULATION RESEARCH 3356 02:36:48,119 --> 02:36:50,154 RIGHT NOW AND YOU LOOK AT THE -- 3357 02:36:50,154 --> 02:36:54,692 WHAT ARE THE MODELS FOR GRAND 3358 02:36:54,692 --> 02:36:57,462 PUBLIC DATA FOR UNDERSTANDING? 3359 02:36:57,462 --> 02:36:59,130 IT'S THE HUMAN GENOME PROJECT 3360 02:36:59,130 --> 02:37:01,032 AND NOW ALL OF US. 3361 02:37:01,032 --> 02:37:03,835 THOSE ARE SPECIFIC MODELS. 3362 02:37:03,835 --> 02:37:06,537 INVESTIGATORS WERE CONTRACTED TO 3363 02:37:06,537 --> 02:37:07,438 CREATE DATA FROM THE BEGINNING 3364 02:37:07,438 --> 02:37:08,406 FOR THE COMMUNITY. 3365 02:37:08,406 --> 02:37:14,312 THERE WAS AN UNDERSTANDING UP 3366 02:37:14,312 --> 02:37:15,747 FRONT THIS IS NOT 3367 02:37:15,747 --> 02:37:16,147 [AUDIO DIGITIZING] 3368 02:37:16,147 --> 02:37:18,182 IT'S FOR THE BROADER COMMUNITY. 3369 02:37:18,182 --> 02:37:20,151 WAS THE MODEL WHERE ALL OF US 3370 02:37:20,151 --> 02:37:25,590 RIGHT NOW ARE GENERATING DATA 3371 02:37:25,590 --> 02:37:31,829 AND EVEN THE MODEL VILL 3372 02:37:31,829 --> 02:37:33,431 INVESTIGATOR COLLECTS DATA TO 3373 02:37:33,431 --> 02:37:34,832 ANSWER THEIR OWN QUESTION AND 3374 02:37:34,832 --> 02:37:36,868 BOLTS ON STUFF THAT MAYBE WOULD 3375 02:37:36,868 --> 02:37:47,278 BE USEFUL DOWN THE ROAD. 3376 02:37:54,352 --> 02:37:57,055 THE CLOSEST ANALOGY WAS WHEN 3377 02:37:57,055 --> 02:38:00,792 THEY CALLED OFF A BUNCH AND YOU 3378 02:38:00,792 --> 02:38:03,628 CAN DO YOUR SMALL PIECE BUT 3379 02:38:03,628 --> 02:38:05,263 WE'RE ALL DOING THIS BIG THING 3380 02:38:05,263 --> 02:38:06,230 TOGETHER FOR THE BROADER THEME 3381 02:38:06,230 --> 02:38:08,366 OF LEARNING AND MEMORY. 3382 02:38:08,366 --> 02:38:10,435 IF WE WANTED A COLLECTIVE EFFORT 3383 02:38:10,435 --> 02:38:11,502 OF THE THAT'S HOW WE HAVE TO 3384 02:38:11,502 --> 02:38:12,704 THINK ABOUT IT FROM THE GROUND 3385 02:38:12,704 --> 02:38:15,039 UP WE AGREE WE'RE DOING THIS FOR 3386 02:38:15,039 --> 02:38:25,583 TOGETHERNESS NOT FOR OURSELVES. 3387 02:38:33,358 --> 02:38:35,526 >> WE DO ALL THESE COGNITIVE 3388 02:38:35,526 --> 02:38:36,894 TASKS IN EMU AND DIFFERENT 3389 02:38:36,894 --> 02:38:38,296 GROUPS HAVE DIFFERENT VERSIONS 3390 02:38:38,296 --> 02:38:41,299 OF TASKS AND HOW CAN WE 3391 02:38:41,299 --> 02:38:44,402 STANDARDIZE THAT. 3392 02:38:44,402 --> 02:38:47,638 IN AN IDEAL TASK I'D LIKE A TASK 3393 02:38:47,638 --> 02:38:50,675 REPOSITORY TO SEE WHAT CONSTRUCT 3394 02:38:50,675 --> 02:38:51,876 DO I WANT TO RUN AND DOWNLOAD 3395 02:38:51,876 --> 02:38:55,146 THE TASK FROM THERE. 3396 02:38:55,146 --> 02:38:57,648 I GET REQUESTS FROM MULTIPLE 3397 02:38:57,648 --> 02:38:59,784 PEOPLE, CAN YOU SHARE THE CODE. 3398 02:38:59,784 --> 02:39:02,854 WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THE CODE 3399 02:39:02,854 --> 02:39:03,654 SOMEWHERE. 3400 02:39:03,654 --> 02:39:04,589 IT'S ABOUT DATA SHARING AND 3401 02:39:04,589 --> 02:39:09,660 COMPARING RESULTS WITH ANOTHER 3402 02:39:09,660 --> 02:39:20,338 GROUP I DON'T KNOW IF WHAT I'M 3403 02:39:20,338 --> 02:39:25,743 SEEING IS A DIFFERENT TASK AND 3404 02:39:25,743 --> 02:39:30,515 WE SHOULD GO GROUND UP AND TRY 3405 02:39:30,515 --> 02:39:31,749 TO CREATE A COGNITIVE TASK WHICH 3406 02:39:31,749 --> 02:39:34,819 IS I WOULDN'T SAY EASIER BUT 3407 02:39:34,819 --> 02:39:37,522 MORE APPROACHABLE THAN THINKING 3408 02:39:37,522 --> 02:39:38,489 OF SHARING DATA IN THE FIRST 3409 02:39:38,489 --> 02:39:38,689 PLACE. 3410 02:39:38,689 --> 02:39:41,592 THE SAME APPLIES FOR WHEN WE 3411 02:39:41,592 --> 02:39:44,529 MOVE FROM IN-HOSPITAL TO THE 3412 02:39:44,529 --> 02:39:45,630 WILD, FOR EXAMPLE. 3413 02:39:45,630 --> 02:39:47,165 HOW DO WE TRANSLATE THE 3414 02:39:47,165 --> 02:39:50,301 COGNITIVE TASKS WE PERFORM IN A 3415 02:39:50,301 --> 02:39:52,737 CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT INTO LIKE 3416 02:39:52,737 --> 02:39:55,673 A FREE ENVIRONMENT HOW DO THESE 3417 02:39:55,673 --> 02:39:58,142 MATCH UP OR IF I'M DOING A 3418 02:39:58,142 --> 02:39:58,843 COGNITIVE TASK IN THIS 3419 02:39:58,843 --> 02:40:02,380 ENVIRONMENT HOW WOULD THAT 3420 02:40:02,380 --> 02:40:02,647 TRANSLATE? 3421 02:40:02,647 --> 02:40:04,515 THESE ARE SOME BASIC QUESTIONS 3422 02:40:04,515 --> 02:40:07,518 THAT WE FIRST NEED TO FIGURE OUT 3423 02:40:07,518 --> 02:40:09,420 EVEN BEFORE WE TAKE OFF THE DATA 3424 02:40:09,420 --> 02:40:15,159 THAT'S RESULTING FROM IT. 3425 02:40:15,159 --> 02:40:19,697 >> I THINK YOU HIT A NERVE ZOOM 3426 02:40:19,697 --> 02:40:26,304 IS BUBBLING UP ALL KINDS OF 3427 02:40:26,304 --> 02:40:27,905 ICONS AND NOW THERE'S FOUR TIMES 3428 02:40:27,905 --> 02:40:31,676 AS MANY HANDS AS BEFORE. 3429 02:40:31,676 --> 02:40:36,747 YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 3430 02:40:36,747 --> 02:40:47,258 REPOSITORIES OF TASK AND CODE 3431 02:40:57,068 --> 02:41:01,939 >> A REPOSITORY AND I NEED A 3432 02:41:01,939 --> 02:41:09,380 TASK TO LOOK INTO COGNITIVE 3433 02:41:09,380 --> 02:41:15,286 CONTROL OR WORKING MEMORY AND I 3434 02:41:15,286 --> 02:41:16,721 KNOW ANOTHER GROUP USED THAT AND 3435 02:41:16,721 --> 02:41:18,789 CAN COMPARE RESULTS WITH THEM. 3436 02:41:18,789 --> 02:41:23,694 >> COULD THAT BE SIMILAR TO THE 3437 02:41:23,694 --> 02:41:27,098 NIH TOOLBOX FOR TASK-BASED -- 3438 02:41:27,098 --> 02:41:28,099 >> YEAH. 3439 02:41:28,099 --> 02:41:30,001 THERE'S EVEN CODING THE TASKS AS 3440 02:41:30,001 --> 02:41:31,969 EVERYBODY USES A DIFFERENT CODE. 3441 02:41:31,969 --> 02:41:33,604 IF SOMEBODY HAS ALREADY CODED 3442 02:41:33,604 --> 02:41:35,506 IT, I DON'T THINK ANOTHER GROUP 3443 02:41:35,506 --> 02:41:36,574 SHOULD WASTE TIME TRYING TO CODE 3444 02:41:36,574 --> 02:41:46,817 THE SAME TASK. 3445 02:41:55,192 --> 02:41:57,595 >> WE CAN USE THE EXISTING 3446 02:41:57,595 --> 02:41:59,697 INFRASTRUCTURE IN A NEW USEFUL 3447 02:41:59,697 --> 02:42:00,765 WAY. 3448 02:42:00,765 --> 02:42:02,667 >> BROWN WERE TRYING TO GO 3449 02:42:02,667 --> 02:42:04,569 TOWARDS THAT AIM AND I THINK OF 3450 02:42:04,569 --> 02:42:09,941 SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE 3451 02:42:09,941 --> 02:42:18,416 HUGELY USEFUL 3452 02:42:18,416 --> 02:42:21,218 >> I WAS INVOLVED WITH BROWN HAS 3453 02:42:21,218 --> 02:42:29,694 A VERY NICE CENTER FOR COMPUTING 3454 02:42:29,694 --> 02:42:30,094 AND VISUALIZATION. 3455 02:42:30,094 --> 02:42:31,162 THE CCCV. 3456 02:42:31,162 --> 02:42:32,663 WE WERE WORKING WITH THEM TO 3457 02:42:32,663 --> 02:42:38,002 CREATE BEHAVIORAL TASKS THAT 3458 02:42:38,002 --> 02:42:39,236 WERE LIKE DEPLOYED AND 3459 02:42:39,236 --> 02:42:42,940 EXECUTABLE TO BE EASILY 3460 02:42:42,940 --> 02:42:44,208 INSTALLED IN MULTIPLE LOCATIONS 3461 02:42:44,208 --> 02:42:45,876 AND SHARE COLLABORATORS. 3462 02:42:45,876 --> 02:42:47,545 YOU DON'T NEED A SPECIFIC 3463 02:42:47,545 --> 02:42:49,513 VERSION OF LAB RUNNING THAT'S 3464 02:42:49,513 --> 02:42:52,617 ABLE TO PLAY NICELY WITH THE 3465 02:42:52,617 --> 02:42:53,918 TOOLBOX AND LEADS TO WHEN YOU'RE 3466 02:42:53,918 --> 02:42:57,488 RUNNING THE TASK AND DON'T HAVE 3467 02:42:57,488 --> 02:43:02,994 TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO DEBUG ON 3468 02:43:02,994 --> 02:43:04,428 SITE. 3469 02:43:04,428 --> 02:43:10,001 I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I 3470 02:43:10,001 --> 02:43:12,903 THINK SHE WAS GETTING AT WAS 3471 02:43:12,903 --> 02:43:15,606 STANDARDIZING DATA COLLECTION. 3472 02:43:15,606 --> 02:43:19,510 THAT'S IMPORTANT LIKE EVEN WHEN 3473 02:43:19,510 --> 02:43:23,114 I SHARE MY DATA IT REQUIRES 3474 02:43:23,114 --> 02:43:23,447 CONVERSATIONS. 3475 02:43:23,447 --> 02:43:25,983 SO I THINK THAT STANDARDIZING 3476 02:43:25,983 --> 02:43:28,019 COLLECTION IS IMPORTANT. 3477 02:43:28,019 --> 02:43:28,953 ANOTHER THING A COUPLE THINGS 3478 02:43:28,953 --> 02:43:34,925 PEOPLE HAVE TOUCHED ON IS HOW DO 3479 02:43:34,925 --> 02:43:37,595 WE UNIFY THE DIFFERENT MODALS. 3480 02:43:37,595 --> 02:43:39,030 IF WE COLLECT DAIT ACROSS 3481 02:43:39,030 --> 02:43:43,467 DIFFERENT MODALITIES I FEEL LIKE 3482 02:43:43,467 --> 02:43:48,005 THEY'RE SILOED. 3483 02:43:48,005 --> 02:43:50,374 YOU PUBLISH PAPER AND WE NEED TO 3484 02:43:50,374 --> 02:43:53,244 BE LIKE INTEGRATING THINGS MORE 3485 02:43:53,244 --> 02:43:55,646 AND I THINK LIKE A GOOD WAY TO 3486 02:43:55,646 --> 02:43:56,914 DO THAT WOULD BE TRYING TO 3487 02:43:56,914 --> 02:43:59,417 FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE 3488 02:43:59,417 --> 02:44:00,851 OVERARCHING HYPOTHESIS THEY CAN 3489 02:44:00,851 --> 02:44:03,688 HAVE ACROSS ALL THESE MODALITIES 3490 02:44:03,688 --> 02:44:10,895 AND HOW DO YOU INTEGRATE EACH 3491 02:44:10,895 --> 02:44:11,062 ONE. 3492 02:44:11,062 --> 02:44:21,806 ANOTHER THING HILLELEN SAID THE 3493 02:44:26,544 --> 02:44:28,245 SHARING THE DATA AND PEOPLE LIKE 3494 02:44:28,245 --> 02:44:29,714 WEARABLES BECAUSE IT'S FUN TO 3495 02:44:29,714 --> 02:44:34,018 SEE THE DATA AND I THINK IF WE 3496 02:44:34,018 --> 02:44:34,985 COULD THINK ABOUT LIKE HOW MUCH 3497 02:44:34,985 --> 02:44:39,790 YOU'RE SLEEPING AT NIGHT OR HOW 3498 02:44:39,790 --> 02:44:43,294 STRESSED ARE YOU OVER TIME? 3499 02:44:43,294 --> 02:44:47,665 THOSE ARE THINGS APPLE WATCH CAN 3500 02:44:47,665 --> 02:44:49,700 TELL YOU AND IF WE CAN GIVE THE 3501 02:44:49,700 --> 02:44:55,139 DATA BACK TO INFORM PATIENTS IT 3502 02:44:55,139 --> 02:44:57,942 MAY BECOME MORE OF A SYNTHESIS. 3503 02:44:57,942 --> 02:45:02,780 >> I WARRANT TO -- WANT IT MAKE 3504 02:45:02,780 --> 02:45:07,585 ONE COMMENT IN BETWEEN TO 3505 02:45:07,585 --> 02:45:12,656 FOLLOW-UP ON AND MAYBE GABE WHEN 3506 02:45:12,656 --> 02:45:23,200 WE GET TO YOUR HAND AND TALKING 3507 02:45:31,609 --> 02:45:33,077 ABOUT OCD PATIENTS AND SAY WE'RE 3508 02:45:33,077 --> 02:45:35,279 DOING THIS IN PATIENTS WITH PD. 3509 02:45:35,279 --> 02:45:37,114 THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TERM 3510 02:45:37,114 --> 02:45:40,718 OF HOW THAT PATIENT HAS A 3511 02:45:40,718 --> 02:45:44,488 DISCUSSION ABOUT GETTING DBS OR 3512 02:45:44,488 --> 02:45:45,923 WHATEVER INVASIVE NEURAL 3513 02:45:45,923 --> 02:45:48,659 STIMULATION AND A DIFFERENT 3514 02:45:48,659 --> 02:45:49,627 CONVERSATION WITH DEPRESSION 3515 02:45:49,627 --> 02:45:55,065 WITH TE STATE OF THERAPY AND 3516 02:45:55,065 --> 02:46:05,609 ROLE OF RESEARCH AND THEY KNOW 3517 02:46:06,377 --> 02:46:07,444 IT'S INVESTIGATIONAL AND 3518 02:46:07,444 --> 02:46:08,012 PARTICIPATING IN A RESEARCH 3519 02:46:08,012 --> 02:46:11,982 MISSION. 3520 02:46:11,982 --> 02:46:13,551 THAT PLAYS A BIG ROLE. 3521 02:46:13,551 --> 02:46:19,089 I THINK THAT PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN 3522 02:46:19,089 --> 02:46:24,695 TERM OF ENGAGEMENT OF THE 3523 02:46:24,695 --> 02:46:25,763 RESEARCH AND MAY MOTIVATE IN 3524 02:46:25,763 --> 02:46:27,064 DIFFERENT WAYS TO PARTICIPATE OR 3525 02:46:27,064 --> 02:46:32,837 NOT OVER THE COURSE OF TIME. 3526 02:46:32,837 --> 02:46:39,677 ULTIMATELY THESE PEOPLE WANT TO 3527 02:46:39,677 --> 02:46:40,678 GET BETTER AND AFFECT THEIR 3528 02:46:40,678 --> 02:46:43,047 LIVES WITHOUT TALKING TO US AND 3529 02:46:43,047 --> 02:46:44,849 THAT'S TRUE WITH SOME 3530 02:46:44,849 --> 02:46:50,154 INDIVIDUALS AND MAYBE NOT 3531 02:46:50,154 --> 02:46:50,387 OTHERS. 3532 02:46:50,387 --> 02:46:53,724 THERE'S A BIG LOAD STATE OF 3533 02:46:53,724 --> 02:46:54,191 THERAPY PLAYS IN THIS. 3534 02:46:54,191 --> 02:47:04,268 WES. 3535 02:47:09,807 --> 02:47:13,444 >> I'LL CONNECT A FEW LINES I 3536 02:47:13,444 --> 02:47:19,683 THINK WOULD HELP FOR THAT. 3537 02:47:19,683 --> 02:47:22,753 SO, WE CAN DO THAT AND EVERYBODY 3538 02:47:22,753 --> 02:47:24,922 TAKE A TURN AND WHEN IT'S YOUR 3539 02:47:24,922 --> 02:47:26,156 TURN, PLEASE DO YOUR COMMENT AND 3540 02:47:26,156 --> 02:47:33,364 ADD TO THAT. 3541 02:47:33,364 --> 02:47:36,600 >> FLIES OTHER SOURCES OF 3542 02:47:36,600 --> 02:47:38,569 VARIATION BETWEEN STORAGE AND 3543 02:47:38,569 --> 02:47:43,908 COLLECTION AND PERSONAL-LEVEL 3544 02:47:43,908 --> 02:47:51,448 VARIABLES AND GETTING A 3545 02:47:51,448 --> 02:47:52,716 COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF WHAT THE 3546 02:47:52,716 --> 02:47:53,851 VARIABLES CAN BE SO PEOPLE CAN 3547 02:47:53,851 --> 02:47:59,089 ACCOUNT FOR SOURCES OF VARIATION 3548 02:47:59,089 --> 02:48:02,359 ACROSS MEASURING VARIABLES 3549 02:48:02,359 --> 02:48:07,631 OPPOSED TO WONDERING DIFFERENT 3550 02:48:07,631 --> 02:48:16,040 CIRCUMSTANCES. 3551 02:48:16,040 --> 02:48:17,508 >> THERE'S STANDARDIZED 3552 02:48:17,508 --> 02:48:19,944 BEHAVIORAL TASKS ACROSS SITES. 3553 02:48:19,944 --> 02:48:21,478 IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA. 3554 02:48:21,478 --> 02:48:23,681 IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE USEFUL 3555 02:48:23,681 --> 02:48:26,383 AND EASY TO IMPLEMENT AND IT'S 3556 02:48:26,383 --> 02:48:29,553 INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO 3557 02:48:29,553 --> 02:48:31,588 STANDARDIZE COGNITIVE TASKS TO 3558 02:48:31,588 --> 02:48:33,090 ENSURE UNIFORM PERFORMANCE 3559 02:48:33,090 --> 02:48:34,191 ACROSS SITES. 3560 02:48:34,191 --> 02:48:35,459 IT REQUIRES A LOT OF TRAINING 3561 02:48:35,459 --> 02:48:37,361 AROUND CARE AND CONSIDERATION 3562 02:48:37,361 --> 02:48:39,797 AND CAN GO POORLY AND LEAD TO 3563 02:48:39,797 --> 02:48:41,065 JUNK IN, JUNK OUT KIND OF 3564 02:48:41,065 --> 02:48:45,502 PROBLEMS IF YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD 3565 02:48:45,502 --> 02:48:47,671 STANDARD AND PROCESSES CONTROL 3566 02:48:47,671 --> 02:48:49,506 SET IN. 3567 02:48:49,506 --> 02:48:50,641 SAME THING APPLIES TO THE KIND 3568 02:48:50,641 --> 02:48:53,477 OF DATA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 3569 02:48:53,477 --> 02:48:54,078 SHARING AND WONDERING IF YOU 3570 02:48:54,078 --> 02:48:56,246 GUYS ARE GOING TO GET INTO HOW 3571 02:48:56,246 --> 02:49:00,818 YOU ENSURE THAT KIND OF 3572 02:49:00,818 --> 02:49:03,187 STANDARDIZATION AND QUALITY IN 3573 02:49:03,187 --> 02:49:04,855 INTERCRANIAL STIMULATIONS AN 3574 02:49:04,855 --> 02:49:05,656 RECORDINGS AND IF THERE'S 3575 02:49:05,656 --> 02:49:07,424 SPECIFIC FACTORS YOU HAVE TO 3576 02:49:07,424 --> 02:49:09,026 ACCOUNT FOR MAKING SURE YOUR 3577 02:49:09,026 --> 02:49:10,027 STIMULATION IS GETTING IN THE 3578 02:49:10,027 --> 02:49:12,329 BRAIN AND HOW DO YOU VALIDATE 3579 02:49:12,329 --> 02:49:15,532 THAT AND MAKE SURE IT'S STANDARD 3580 02:49:15,532 --> 02:49:17,234 USED ACROSS SITES AND WONDER IF 3581 02:49:17,234 --> 02:49:26,744 THAT TOPIC HAS COME UP AT ALL. 3582 02:49:26,744 --> 02:49:27,378 >> THERE'S A LOT OF DETAIL YOU 3583 02:49:27,378 --> 02:49:34,818 MENTIONED AS WELL. 3584 02:49:34,818 --> 02:49:36,620 IF YOU'RE NOT COLLECTING IT 3585 02:49:36,620 --> 02:49:37,388 YOURSELF AND HAVEN'T SEEN THE 3586 02:49:37,388 --> 02:49:39,623 PATIENT DO IT, WHAT ARE YOU 3587 02:49:39,623 --> 02:49:45,129 MISSING IN TERMS OF SOMATIC 3588 02:49:45,129 --> 02:49:46,730 INFORMATION 3589 02:49:46,730 --> 02:49:50,367 >> I WANT TO MAKE A QUICK PLUG 3590 02:49:50,367 --> 02:49:53,704 WHAT WITH WAS SAID. 3591 02:49:53,704 --> 02:49:59,243 GOOD DATA SHARING COMES WHEN 3592 02:49:59,243 --> 02:50:04,681 THERE'S FUNDING INVOLVED AND THE 3593 02:50:04,681 --> 02:50:07,384 RAM PROJECT AND THERE'S THE 3594 02:50:07,384 --> 02:50:08,819 INVESTIGATOR DRIVEN SUBMIT TO 3595 02:50:08,819 --> 02:50:10,921 NDA WITH THE COUPLE THOUSAND 3596 02:50:10,921 --> 02:50:12,289 DOLLARS ALLOCATED ON THE BUDGET. 3597 02:50:12,289 --> 02:50:13,424 THAT DOESN'T WORK AS WELL AS 3598 02:50:13,424 --> 02:50:14,124 WE'VE SEEN. 3599 02:50:14,124 --> 02:50:15,259 I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S 3600 02:50:15,259 --> 02:50:19,997 SOMETHING IN BETWEEN THAT IF 3601 02:50:19,997 --> 02:50:21,632 THERE'S A SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING 3602 02:50:21,632 --> 02:50:24,268 TO PROVIDE A PERCENTAGE OF RA 3603 02:50:24,268 --> 02:50:25,469 TIME THAT SPANS ACROSS PROJECTS 3604 02:50:25,469 --> 02:50:29,173 THAT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 3605 02:50:29,173 --> 02:50:29,973 INNOVATIVE STIMULATION AND 3606 02:50:29,973 --> 02:50:31,708 RECORDING WE'RE LOOKING AT 3607 02:50:31,708 --> 02:50:33,310 SINGLE PULSE RESPONSES AND I 3608 02:50:33,310 --> 02:50:35,679 REACH OUT TO HELEN AND SAMEER 3609 02:50:35,679 --> 02:50:37,181 AND OTHER WHO HAVE THEIR OWN 3610 02:50:37,181 --> 02:50:38,982 FUNDED GRANTS AND THERE'S A 3611 02:50:38,982 --> 02:50:40,451 SUPPLEMENT ALLOWED TO COLLECT 3612 02:50:40,451 --> 02:50:42,953 DATA IN A STANDARDIZED WAY AND 3613 02:50:42,953 --> 02:50:44,288 SHARE THAT DATA IN A 3614 02:50:44,288 --> 02:50:45,689 STANDARDIZED WAY AND THAT WOULD 3615 02:50:45,689 --> 02:50:47,391 BE VALUABLE I THINK TO THE 3616 02:50:47,391 --> 02:50:49,126 COMMUNITY AND WE COULD STILL DO 3617 02:50:49,126 --> 02:50:51,829 OUR OWN PROJECTS AND OUR OWN 3618 02:50:51,829 --> 02:50:53,063 WORK BUT COLLABORATE TOGETHER TO 3619 02:50:53,063 --> 02:50:55,132 MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE 3620 02:50:55,132 --> 02:50:57,234 COLLECTED IN A STANDARDIZED WAY. 3621 02:50:57,234 --> 02:50:59,002 I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE 3622 02:50:59,002 --> 02:51:03,674 OR EXISTS BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS 3623 02:51:03,674 --> 02:51:10,047 INTERESTING. 3624 02:51:10,047 --> 02:51:16,453 >> THANKS, CORY. 3625 02:51:16,453 --> 02:51:26,597 DAMIEN. 3626 02:51:26,864 --> 02:51:28,198 >> THERE'S AN EDUCATION 3627 02:51:28,198 --> 02:51:31,001 COMPONENT TO THE STATE OF 3628 02:51:31,001 --> 02:51:33,036 AFFAIRS OF THESE KINDS OF 3629 02:51:33,036 --> 02:51:34,238 INVASIVE TECHNIQUES AND FOR 3630 02:51:34,238 --> 02:51:36,039 TREATING PATIENTS AND LEARNING 3631 02:51:36,039 --> 02:51:37,007 NEUROSCIENCE. 3632 02:51:37,007 --> 02:51:38,175 WE'RE NOTICING A LOT OF TIMES 3633 02:51:38,175 --> 02:51:40,577 PARTICULARLY IN THIS SPACE IT'S 3634 02:51:40,577 --> 02:51:44,248 ALWAYS PATIENTS AND A LOT OF 3635 02:51:44,248 --> 02:51:46,016 TIMES FOLKS EVEN CLINICIANS AND 3636 02:51:46,016 --> 02:51:49,486 PRIMARY CARE AND OTHERS NOT AT 3637 02:51:49,486 --> 02:51:50,821 ADVANCED CENTERS IN THE WEEDS 3638 02:51:50,821 --> 02:51:53,457 FEEL LIKE A LOT OF THE 3639 02:51:53,457 --> 02:51:55,826 EXPERIMENTS ARE THE COWBOYS 3640 02:51:55,826 --> 02:52:01,231 GOING IN AND POKING BRAINS AND 3641 02:52:01,231 --> 02:52:02,499 THINGS WITHOUT A PROPER 3642 02:52:02,499 --> 02:52:07,004 EDUCATION WHERE THINGS ARE AT 3643 02:52:07,004 --> 02:52:10,340 TODAY BECAUSE I FEEL THE 3644 02:52:10,340 --> 02:52:13,410 ADVANCEMENTS ARE HIGH TO DO 3645 02:52:13,410 --> 02:52:15,679 GREAT THINGS. 3646 02:52:15,679 --> 02:52:19,149 MAYBE BUTTRESSED BY NOT HAVING 3647 02:52:19,149 --> 02:52:21,685 PROPER EDUCATION IN THE MEDICAL 3648 02:52:21,685 --> 02:52:26,390 ARENA AND OUTSIDE OUR IMMEDIATE 3649 02:52:26,390 --> 02:52:28,058 SPHERES WE COLLABORATE WITH AND 3650 02:52:28,058 --> 02:52:29,826 A TOPIC I THOUGHT I'D THROW OUT 3651 02:52:29,826 --> 02:52:30,160 THERE. 3652 02:52:30,160 --> 02:52:34,464 >> I WONDER IF ANOTHER PART OF 3653 02:52:34,464 --> 02:52:36,667 THIS MENTIONED IS A HIGH START 3654 02:52:36,667 --> 02:52:41,939 UP COST FOR GETTING INTO THIS 3655 02:52:41,939 --> 02:52:52,115 BUSINESS. 3656 02:52:58,922 --> 02:53:03,060 AND YOU CAN COLLABORATE AND 3657 02:53:03,060 --> 02:53:04,361 THERE'S CROSS-VALUE FOR 3658 02:53:04,361 --> 02:53:07,364 EDUCATION AND HOW TO DO THIS AND 3659 02:53:07,364 --> 02:53:08,966 HOW TO CONTRIBUTE ERN A 3660 02:53:08,966 --> 02:53:19,009 MEANINGFUL WAY. 3661 02:53:19,009 --> 02:53:20,377 >> I WANTED TO BRING UP THE 3662 02:53:20,377 --> 02:53:22,112 IMPORTANCE OF HELPING 3663 02:53:22,112 --> 02:53:23,080 RESEARCHERS UNDERSTAND NOT JUST 3664 02:53:23,080 --> 02:53:27,117 THE RESEARCHERS HERE BUT 3665 02:53:27,117 --> 02:53:29,319 UNDERSTAND THE UTILITY OF 3666 02:53:29,319 --> 02:53:34,024 SHARING DATA AND HOW CAN YOU 3667 02:53:34,024 --> 02:53:35,692 ACTUALLY PROMOTE PROGRESS AND 3668 02:53:35,692 --> 02:53:38,295 HOW DOES THIS ACTUALLY WORK? 3669 02:53:38,295 --> 02:53:40,764 SO IF THERE'S SOME KIND OF 3670 02:53:40,764 --> 02:53:43,634 PROGRAM AS WAS DISCUSSED BEFORE, 3671 02:53:43,634 --> 02:53:46,703 SOMETHING THAT WHERE YOU CAN 3672 02:53:46,703 --> 02:53:52,509 DEVELOP AN A DEAL MODEL AND TRY 3673 02:53:52,509 --> 02:53:53,510 THIS WITH RESEARCH GROUPS AND IT 3674 02:53:53,510 --> 02:53:55,612 WILL TAKE TIME BUT THEN PEOPLE 3675 02:53:55,612 --> 02:53:58,749 COULD SEE A FEW YEARS DOWN THE 3676 02:53:58,749 --> 02:54:03,754 LINE LIKE WHAT WAS THIS MODEL OR 3677 02:54:03,754 --> 02:54:05,188 PROGRAM ABLE TO ACHIEVE BY 3678 02:54:05,188 --> 02:54:06,156 WORKING TOGETHER AND BRINGING 3679 02:54:06,156 --> 02:54:08,125 TOGETHER ALL THE DIFFERENT 3680 02:54:08,125 --> 02:54:08,492 MODALITIES. 3681 02:54:08,492 --> 02:54:11,094 I THINK THAT WOULD REALLY HELP 3682 02:54:11,094 --> 02:54:14,598 RESEARCHERS FOR EXAMPLE IN 3683 02:54:14,598 --> 02:54:17,434 GENOMICS, YES, INSIDE GENETICS, 3684 02:54:17,434 --> 02:54:20,270 FOR EXAMPLE, WASN'T UNTIL YOU 3685 02:54:20,270 --> 02:54:22,105 START BRINGING TOGETHER ALL 3686 02:54:22,105 --> 02:54:23,640 THESE DIFFERENT SAMPLES THAT 3687 02:54:23,640 --> 02:54:25,742 PEOPLE START MAKING PROGRESS AND 3688 02:54:25,742 --> 02:54:30,981 IDENTIFYING GENOMIC LOCI AND THE 3689 02:54:30,981 --> 02:54:34,484 STUDIES TEND TO BE INVASIVE 3690 02:54:34,484 --> 02:54:37,554 NEURAL TYPE STUDIES TEND TO BE 3691 02:54:37,554 --> 02:54:38,488 RELATIVELY SMALL. 3692 02:54:38,488 --> 02:54:42,025 IT ALSO TAKES TIME TO BE ABLE TO 3693 02:54:42,025 --> 02:54:45,729 SAY SOMETHING MEANINGFUL ABOUT 3694 02:54:45,729 --> 02:54:46,363 THE EFFECTIVENESS OR SAFETY OF 3695 02:54:46,363 --> 02:54:56,573 THE DEVICES. 3696 02:54:57,741 --> 02:55:03,380 AND EXPLAIN THE UTILITY OF IT 3697 02:55:03,380 --> 02:55:13,690 WOULD BE CRITICAL. 3698 02:55:17,627 --> 02:55:20,731 >> DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT 3699 02:55:20,731 --> 02:55:21,998 THE PATIENT POPULATION AND 3700 02:55:21,998 --> 02:55:28,839 THERAPY WHERE SOMEONE IS 99.9% 3701 02:55:28,839 --> 02:55:39,182 THERE TO GET BETTER. 3702 02:55:40,917 --> 02:55:43,387 >> ALTRUISM COMES UP REGARDLESS 3703 02:55:43,387 --> 02:55:48,392 OF THE TYPE OF PATIENT. 3704 02:55:48,392 --> 02:55:50,160 SO YOU THINK THERE'S A LOT OF -- 3705 02:55:50,160 --> 02:55:51,928 WELL, FOR MANY OF THESE 3706 02:55:51,928 --> 02:55:55,699 PARTICIPANTS THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE 3707 02:55:55,699 --> 02:55:56,967 EXPERIENCE AS A SEVERE CONDITION 3708 02:55:56,967 --> 02:55:58,568 FOR QUITE A LONG TIME. 3709 02:55:58,568 --> 02:56:01,371 AND SO THERE IS AN AFFINITY AND 3710 02:56:01,371 --> 02:56:04,674 SOME EMPATHY THEY WANT TO BE 3711 02:56:04,674 --> 02:56:06,076 ABLE TO HELP OTHERS WHO MAY BE 3712 02:56:06,076 --> 02:56:08,445 IN A SIMILAR SITUATION. 3713 02:56:08,445 --> 02:56:13,116 SO IN THAT SENSE, EVEN IF SOME 3714 02:56:13,116 --> 02:56:15,986 PARTICIPANTS ARE MOTIVATED 3715 02:56:15,986 --> 02:56:19,055 PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT 3716 02:56:19,055 --> 02:56:19,890 FOR EXAMPLE DBS FOR DIFFERENT 3717 02:56:19,890 --> 02:56:22,092 MOVEMENT DISORDERS IS MORE 3718 02:56:22,092 --> 02:56:24,361 ADVANCED THAN DBS FOR SOME 3719 02:56:24,361 --> 02:56:29,099 PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS. 3720 02:56:29,099 --> 02:56:31,001 THERE'S STILL THAT ALTRUISM AND 3721 02:56:31,001 --> 02:56:33,837 SIMILAR TO UTILITY WITH 3722 02:56:33,837 --> 02:56:34,137 RESEARCHERS. 3723 02:56:34,137 --> 02:56:36,339 IF WE CAN HELP THE PATIENTS ALSO 3724 02:56:36,339 --> 02:56:38,675 SEE WHAT THE UTILITY IS FOR THE 3725 02:56:38,675 --> 02:56:40,477 FIELD FOR ADVANCING THE SCIENCE 3726 02:56:40,477 --> 02:56:42,512 AROUND AS HELEN WAS SAYING, IF 3727 02:56:42,512 --> 02:56:45,849 THERE'S SOME KIND OF UTILITY YOU 3728 02:56:45,849 --> 02:56:50,320 CAN ALSO IDENTIFY FOR THE 3729 02:56:50,320 --> 02:56:51,221 PATIENTS THEMSELVES THAT WILL 3730 02:56:51,221 --> 02:56:53,390 GET YOU A LONG WAY BECAUSE THESE 3731 02:56:53,390 --> 02:56:58,995 ARE PEOPLE THAT OFTEN WANT TO BE 3732 02:56:58,995 --> 02:57:00,697 ABLE TO HELP AND MAKE MEANING 3733 02:57:00,697 --> 02:57:02,199 FROM THEIR EXPERIENCE AND HELP 3734 02:57:02,199 --> 02:57:02,799 OTHERS THAT HAVE HAD SIMILAR 3735 02:57:02,799 --> 02:57:07,003 EXPERIENCES. 3736 02:57:07,003 --> 02:57:07,370 YOU 3737 02:57:07,370 --> 02:57:10,407 >> LET ME ALL ASK YOU ONE MORE 3738 02:57:10,407 --> 02:57:11,508 PRACTICAL DISCUSSION. 3739 02:57:11,508 --> 02:57:15,111 WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE IDEA 3740 02:57:15,111 --> 02:57:18,148 OF PAYMENT COMPENSATION FOR 3741 02:57:18,148 --> 02:57:19,282 PATIENT PARTICIPANTS WHETHER 3742 02:57:19,282 --> 02:57:23,487 IT'S ACUTELY IN THE O.R. OVER 3743 02:57:23,487 --> 02:57:25,856 LONG PERIOD OF TIME, COERCION, 3744 02:57:25,856 --> 02:57:26,423 UNDUE INFLUENCE. 3745 02:57:26,423 --> 02:57:29,626 ARE THESE FACTORS AT ALL. 3746 02:57:29,626 --> 02:57:32,762 SHOULD THEY BE PAID, NEVER BE 3747 02:57:32,762 --> 02:57:33,463 PAID? 3748 02:57:33,463 --> 02:57:34,764 WHAT COMPENSATION IS REASONABLE? 3749 02:57:34,764 --> 02:57:39,669 IS IT ALL ALTRUISM? 3750 02:57:39,669 --> 02:57:40,570 HOW MUCH IS THE MINIMUM OR TOO 3751 02:57:40,570 --> 02:57:46,276 MUCH? 3752 02:57:46,276 --> 02:57:51,681 NOT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT. 3753 02:57:51,681 --> 02:57:54,184 >> OKAY. 3754 02:57:54,184 --> 02:57:55,619 SO I THINK ONE IMPORTANT PART 3755 02:57:55,619 --> 02:57:59,422 AND AS YOU KNOW LIKE MANY OF THE 3756 02:57:59,422 --> 02:58:01,458 PATIENTS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE 3757 02:58:01,458 --> 02:58:03,927 TRIALS MAY NOT BE FROM AROUND 3758 02:58:03,927 --> 02:58:05,295 THE AREAS WHERE THESE CLINICS 3759 02:58:05,295 --> 02:58:08,565 ARE LOCATED. 3760 02:58:08,565 --> 02:58:10,667 SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT COSTS 3761 02:58:10,667 --> 02:58:12,369 ASSOCIATED WITH PARTICIPATING 3762 02:58:12,369 --> 02:58:14,771 THAT I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT 3763 02:58:14,771 --> 02:58:17,741 TO HELP THEM COVER THOSE COSTS. 3764 02:58:17,741 --> 02:58:23,680 BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT SOME 3765 02:58:23,680 --> 02:58:26,049 COMPENSATION CAN HELP DEFRAY 3766 02:58:26,049 --> 02:58:27,717 SOME COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH 3767 02:58:27,717 --> 02:58:29,486 PARTICIPATING WE KNOW OFTEN 3768 02:58:29,486 --> 02:58:32,722 THESE ARE PATIENTS THAT MAY HAVE 3769 02:58:32,722 --> 02:58:35,158 HAD DIFFICULTIES MAINTAINING A 3770 02:58:35,158 --> 02:58:37,093 JOB OR WORKING AT THE LEVEL THEY 3771 02:58:37,093 --> 02:58:40,830 WOULD LIKE TO BE WORKING BECAUSE 3772 02:58:40,830 --> 02:58:47,337 OF THE TYPE OF CONDITION. 3773 02:58:47,337 --> 02:58:50,607 IT COULD BE HELPFUL BUT A 3774 02:58:50,607 --> 02:58:51,708 CONVERSATION THAT WOULD REQUIRE 3775 02:58:51,708 --> 02:58:54,511 A LONGER DISCUSSION TO EXPLORE 3776 02:58:54,511 --> 02:58:57,047 WHAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. 3777 02:58:57,047 --> 02:58:58,114 >> YEAH. 3778 02:58:58,114 --> 02:59:01,284 IT'S TOUGH. 3779 02:59:01,284 --> 02:59:03,687 YOU THINK WE CAN AGREE THERE 3780 02:59:03,687 --> 02:59:05,455 COULD BE TOO MUCH AND A VERSION 3781 02:59:05,455 --> 02:59:09,759 THAT IS TOO MUCH. 3782 02:59:09,759 --> 02:59:11,328 NOT ENOUGH WOULD BE WHERE A LOT 3783 02:59:11,328 --> 02:59:12,929 OF US HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME. 3784 02:59:12,929 --> 02:59:17,300 AND THIS QUESTION IS IS THERE A 3785 02:59:17,300 --> 02:59:21,471 GOLDILOCKS POINT AND I WOULD 3786 02:59:21,471 --> 02:59:24,541 HAZARD FOR A LOT OF THESE THINGS 3787 02:59:24,541 --> 02:59:25,842 IT'S PROBABLY ZERO BUT THERE'S A 3788 02:59:25,842 --> 02:59:27,644 LOT TO DISCUSS. 3789 02:59:27,644 --> 02:59:30,647 ANYWAY, BACK TO THE MAIN THEME, 3790 02:59:30,647 --> 02:59:30,847 KARA. 3791 02:59:30,847 --> 02:59:32,582 IS THIS ABOUT A QUESTION I HAD 3792 02:59:32,582 --> 02:59:33,850 FOR YOU? 3793 02:59:33,850 --> 02:59:34,884 >> YES, IT IS. 3794 02:59:34,884 --> 02:59:38,021 A QUESTION YOU ASKED A WHILE AGO 3795 02:59:38,021 --> 02:59:38,188 NOW. 3796 02:59:38,188 --> 02:59:40,957 BUT NICELY PIGGY BACKS AND 3797 02:59:40,957 --> 02:59:42,993 SAYING ABOUT DIFFERENT PATIENT 3798 02:59:42,993 --> 02:59:43,293 POPULATIONS. 3799 02:59:43,293 --> 02:59:45,595 A LOT OF OUR EXPERIENCE LATELY 3800 02:59:45,595 --> 02:59:46,162 HAS BEEN WITH PARKINSON'S 3801 02:59:46,162 --> 02:59:48,164 DISEASE PATIENTS WHICH WE KNOW 3802 02:59:48,164 --> 02:59:52,235 ARE OLDER AND ARE OFTEN 3803 02:59:52,235 --> 02:59:59,676 UNDERGOING ARE DBS BECAUSE OF 3804 02:59:59,676 --> 03:00:06,182 VERY SIGNIFICANT DISABILITIES 3805 03:00:06,182 --> 03:00:07,250 THERE'S PARTICIPATION UP 3806 03:00:07,250 --> 03:00:08,985 RESEARCH GROUP AND ONE REASON IS 3807 03:00:08,985 --> 03:00:10,987 ABILITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE 3808 03:00:10,987 --> 03:00:13,223 RESEARCH AS WE MOVE MORE TO THE 3809 03:00:13,223 --> 03:00:13,857 CHRONIC RECORDING DOMAIN. 3810 03:00:13,857 --> 03:00:15,659 WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE 3811 03:00:15,659 --> 03:00:19,629 AUTOMATED OR SEMI-AUTOMATED 3812 03:00:19,629 --> 03:00:21,665 METHODS AS MUCH POSSIBLE TO 3813 03:00:21,665 --> 03:00:24,367 REDUCE BURDEN BUT COMES WITH THE 3814 03:00:24,367 --> 03:00:26,302 NEED FOR TECHNOLOGY SAVVY AND 3815 03:00:26,302 --> 03:00:27,604 WITH AN OLDER POPULATION A LOT 3816 03:00:27,604 --> 03:00:30,173 OF THIS BURDEN CAN FALL ON THE 3817 03:00:30,173 --> 03:00:31,641 CARE PARTNER. 3818 03:00:31,641 --> 03:00:34,144 SO THAT'S ONE CONSIDERATION FOR 3819 03:00:34,144 --> 03:00:36,680 SOME PATIENTS THAT WE RECRUIT TO 3820 03:00:36,680 --> 03:00:38,915 OUR STUDIES AND WILL I KNOW HOW 3821 03:00:38,915 --> 03:00:41,518 TO DO THIS AND CAN I BE 3822 03:00:41,518 --> 03:00:43,453 COMPLIANT FOR THE DATA WE NEED 3823 03:00:43,453 --> 03:00:44,521 AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT AND 3824 03:00:44,521 --> 03:00:45,522 THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO. 3825 03:00:45,522 --> 03:00:46,156 THAT THE ONE CRITICAL PIECE OF 3826 03:00:46,156 --> 03:00:47,957 IT. 3827 03:00:47,957 --> 03:00:49,225 THE OTHER PART YOU'VE ASKED 3828 03:00:49,225 --> 03:00:54,397 ABOUT WAS MOTIVATION TO 3829 03:00:54,397 --> 03:00:58,168 PARTICIPATE IN RESEARCH AND I 3830 03:00:58,168 --> 03:01:02,072 AGREE ALTRUISM IS A FACTOR AND 3831 03:01:02,072 --> 03:01:03,473 MANY ARE ALREADY UNDERGOING 3832 03:01:03,473 --> 03:01:06,543 THERAPY AND WANT TO HELP THE 3833 03:01:06,543 --> 03:01:08,111 BROADER COMMUNITY OF PATIENTS 3834 03:01:08,111 --> 03:01:09,079 FACING THE CHALLENGES WE ARE 3835 03:01:09,079 --> 03:01:11,748 FACING AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO 3836 03:01:11,748 --> 03:01:13,083 UNDER GO THE THERAPY -- THEY 3837 03:01:13,083 --> 03:01:14,784 DON'T NEED TO PARTICIPATE IN 3838 03:01:14,784 --> 03:01:16,453 RESEARCH IN ORDER TO GET THE 3839 03:01:16,453 --> 03:01:17,320 THERAPY. 3840 03:01:17,320 --> 03:01:19,289 IT'S LIKE ADDING IT ON AS PART 3841 03:01:19,289 --> 03:01:20,323 OF THEIR EXPERIENCE. 3842 03:01:20,323 --> 03:01:24,794 AND I THINK SOME PATIENTS ARE 3843 03:01:24,794 --> 03:01:26,129 PROUD OF THAT. 3844 03:01:26,129 --> 03:01:27,163 I THINK ANOTHER POTENTIAL 3845 03:01:27,163 --> 03:01:28,965 MOTIVATING FACTOR IS FINDING 3846 03:01:28,965 --> 03:01:31,568 WAYS TO ENGAGE THE PATIENT BASED 3847 03:01:31,568 --> 03:01:32,302 ON CHALLENGES AND SPECIFIC 3848 03:01:32,302 --> 03:01:42,412 NEEDS. 3849 03:01:43,646 --> 03:01:46,516 SOME ARE FACING PSYCHIATRIC 3850 03:01:46,516 --> 03:01:53,256 SYMPTOMS AND DEPRESSION AND 3851 03:01:53,256 --> 03:01:53,656 OUG 3852 03:01:53,656 --> 03:01:57,026 AUTONOMIC ISSUE AND THAT WHAT 3853 03:01:57,026 --> 03:02:03,666 NEEDS TO BE EXPLORED MORE WITH 3854 03:02:03,666 --> 03:02:04,234 DBS. 3855 03:02:04,234 --> 03:02:14,477 >> THANK YOU. 3856 03:02:16,846 --> 03:02:19,983 >> WE HAVE A 10-MINUTE WARNING. 3857 03:02:19,983 --> 03:02:25,355 WHEN IS THIS THE SESSION OVER? 3858 03:02:25,355 --> 03:02:27,157 >> QUARTER PAST. 3859 03:02:27,157 --> 03:02:28,725 >> I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE 3860 03:02:28,725 --> 03:02:29,559 LIST OF THINGS. 3861 03:02:29,559 --> 03:02:31,694 IF WE'RE TRYING TO SHARE DATA 3862 03:02:31,694 --> 03:02:34,564 PART OF THE REASON IS GIVE 3863 03:02:34,564 --> 03:02:38,134 INCENTIVE AND SOMETHING YOU 3864 03:02:38,134 --> 03:02:40,303 SAID, SAMEER THE COST TO GET 3865 03:02:40,303 --> 03:02:43,640 STARTED IS HARD. 3866 03:02:43,640 --> 03:02:45,842 WHEN YOU HAVE TEAMS THAT ARE 3867 03:02:45,842 --> 03:02:49,479 DEEP AND KNOW HOW TO BE IN AN 3868 03:02:49,479 --> 03:02:51,948 O.R. AND GET FROM THE LAB TO THE 3869 03:02:51,948 --> 03:02:55,685 HOME TO HAVE MULTI-MODAL THINGS 3870 03:02:55,685 --> 03:02:57,720 THAT MANY TEAMS HAVE BEEN BUILT 3871 03:02:57,720 --> 03:02:59,856 DEEP AND INTEGRATIVE AND 3872 03:02:59,856 --> 03:03:00,156 OPERATIONS. 3873 03:03:00,156 --> 03:03:03,493 THAT PROVIDES A FOUNDATION TO 3874 03:03:03,493 --> 03:03:04,894 ADD AN EXPERIMENT ON FROM 3875 03:03:04,894 --> 03:03:06,462 SOMEWHERE ELSE. 3876 03:03:06,462 --> 03:03:08,431 WE'VE DONE THIS EFFECTIVELY BY 3877 03:03:08,431 --> 03:03:12,769 HAVING PEOPLE DO A TASK IN THE 3878 03:03:12,769 --> 03:03:12,936 O.R. 3879 03:03:12,936 --> 03:03:15,672 THAT'S SHORT AND ALREADY ON TOP 3880 03:03:15,672 --> 03:03:17,707 OF SOMETHING GOING ON AND WITHIN 3881 03:03:17,707 --> 03:03:19,342 AN INSTITUTION PEOPLE ARE 3882 03:03:19,342 --> 03:03:21,678 SHARING THE OPPORTUNITY AND 3883 03:03:21,678 --> 03:03:23,713 PATIENTS CAN PARTICIPATE AND ADD 3884 03:03:23,713 --> 03:03:25,315 THINGS THAT ADD TO WHAT WE KNOW 3885 03:03:25,315 --> 03:03:27,217 ABOUT THAT PATIENT. 3886 03:03:27,217 --> 03:03:30,520 I THINK CORY'S VERY PRAGMATIC 3887 03:03:30,520 --> 03:03:33,356 SUGGESTION IS EVERYBODY WANTS TO 3888 03:03:33,356 --> 03:03:34,891 KNOW WHAT DBS IS AND ARE YOU IN 3889 03:03:34,891 --> 03:03:38,161 THE RIGHT PLACE? 3890 03:03:38,161 --> 03:03:40,263 I CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT TRACT OG 3891 03:03:40,263 --> 03:03:42,332 GRAPHY AND IMAGING IS ONE WAY 3892 03:03:42,332 --> 03:03:46,603 BUT MAYBE YOU WANT TO VERIFY. 3893 03:03:46,603 --> 03:03:47,637 ELECTROPHYSIOLOGY COULD BE THE 3894 03:03:47,637 --> 03:03:49,005 WAY TO VERIFY. 3895 03:03:49,005 --> 03:03:53,042 YOU MAY BE ABLE TO DO A 3896 03:03:53,042 --> 03:03:58,882 NON-INVASIVE PROBE OR THE 3897 03:03:58,882 --> 03:03:59,415 BAYLO 3898 03:03:59,415 --> 03:04:01,417 BAYLOR-UCS TEAM DOES IT IN WOMAN 3899 03:04:01,417 --> 03:04:04,254 LOTS OF ELECTRODES AND KEEP THEM 3900 03:04:04,254 --> 03:04:06,356 IN THE HOSPITAL BUT SHOULD BE 3901 03:04:06,356 --> 03:04:07,423 ABLE TO SCALE IT TO WHAT 3902 03:04:07,423 --> 03:04:11,694 EVERYBODY ELSE CAN DO LIKE HIGH 3903 03:04:11,694 --> 03:04:17,734 DENSITY EEG OR WITH TMS AND EEG 3904 03:04:17,734 --> 03:04:24,274 AND HAVE A CROSS-METHODS AND 3905 03:04:24,274 --> 03:04:26,576 EXPERTS AND CORY IS AN EXPERT 3906 03:04:26,576 --> 03:04:29,145 BUT TO TAKE AN IDEA AND SAY IF I 3907 03:04:29,145 --> 03:04:31,681 CAN DO THAT AT THE INVASIVE 3908 03:04:31,681 --> 03:04:34,417 LEVEL, WHERE'S THE TEAM I COULD 3909 03:04:34,417 --> 03:04:34,951 DO THAT? 3910 03:04:34,951 --> 03:04:37,253 YOU SHARE THE RESOURCES. 3911 03:04:37,253 --> 03:04:41,190 IF WE HAD A BUNCH OF INVASIVE 3912 03:04:41,190 --> 03:04:45,495 TEAMS DOING THE SAME EXPERIMENT, 3913 03:04:45,495 --> 03:04:46,963 EPILEPSY PEOPLE DO THIS ALL THE 3914 03:04:46,963 --> 03:04:47,330 TIME. 3915 03:04:47,330 --> 03:04:49,899 THERE WAS A WHOLE NETWORK SET UP 3916 03:04:49,899 --> 03:04:51,067 IN THE EPILEPSY COMMUNITY TO DO 3917 03:04:51,067 --> 03:04:52,735 TASKS ACROSS DIFFERENT PATIENTS 3918 03:04:52,735 --> 03:04:55,038 BECAUSE NO ONE TEAM HAD ENOUGH 3919 03:04:55,038 --> 03:04:55,305 PATIENTS. 3920 03:04:55,305 --> 03:04:57,407 SO THERE'S SO MANY EXAMPLES I 3921 03:04:57,407 --> 03:05:01,311 THINK CORY'S SUGGESTION OF 3922 03:05:01,311 --> 03:05:02,278 INCENTIVIZING WHETHER IT'S A 3923 03:05:02,278 --> 03:05:04,280 SUPPLEMENT, YOU GET TO USE THE 3924 03:05:04,280 --> 03:05:06,282 INFRASTRUCTURE OF A TEAM THAT 3925 03:05:06,282 --> 03:05:07,684 EXISTS, THAT'S ADDED VALUE TO 3926 03:05:07,684 --> 03:05:08,251 THAT TEAM. 3927 03:05:08,251 --> 03:05:11,888 THEY LEARN ABOUT A NEW IDEA, 3928 03:05:11,888 --> 03:05:13,957 IT'S A METHOD THAT MIGHT BE DONE 3929 03:05:13,957 --> 03:05:16,092 THAT CAN SCALE IN AND OUT SIDE 3930 03:05:16,092 --> 03:05:19,662 OF AN O.R. AND THIS HAND OFF 3931 03:05:19,662 --> 03:05:22,198 LIKE THE REPLAY RACE OF VERY 3932 03:05:22,198 --> 03:05:24,934 INVASIVE TO LESS INVASIVE AND 3933 03:05:24,934 --> 03:05:26,936 NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME TASK 3934 03:05:26,936 --> 03:05:28,571 BUT PEOPLE SOPHISTICATED ABOUT A 3935 03:05:28,571 --> 03:05:30,573 QUESTION THAT CAN MOVE ACROSS 3936 03:05:30,573 --> 03:05:32,108 SCALE AND ACROSS TIME SO YOU GET 3937 03:05:32,108 --> 03:05:38,548 THE DYNAMIC TIME SCALE OVER TIME 3938 03:05:38,548 --> 03:05:40,817 AND PEOPLE CAN DO THE 3939 03:05:40,817 --> 03:05:41,985 EXPERIMENTS THEY CARE ABOUT AT 3940 03:05:41,985 --> 03:05:42,919 EVERY LEVEL OF RESOLUTION. 3941 03:05:42,919 --> 03:05:44,687 I THINK IT HITS THAT POINT AND 3942 03:05:44,687 --> 03:05:46,055 THEN YOU CAN SHARE ALL THAT DATA 3943 03:05:46,055 --> 03:05:50,460 AND PEOPLE WOULD BE VERY 3944 03:05:50,460 --> 03:05:51,661 INCENTIVIZED TO BE ABLE TO USE 3945 03:05:51,661 --> 03:05:56,532 AND LOOK AT THEIR APPROACH DOWN 3946 03:05:56,532 --> 03:06:01,871 SAMPLING OR UP SAMPLING. 3947 03:06:01,871 --> 03:06:03,706 >> THANKS, HELEN. 3948 03:06:03,706 --> 03:06:07,176 I THINK IT'S A NEXT GENERATION 3949 03:06:07,176 --> 03:06:08,378 COLLABORATION THAT WE REALLY 3950 03:06:08,378 --> 03:06:15,051 NEED TO INCORPORATE TO MOVE THIS 3951 03:06:15,051 --> 03:06:15,685 FORWARD. 3952 03:06:15,685 --> 03:06:18,287 I SHITA. 3953 03:06:18,287 --> 03:06:21,057 IF WE WANT TO EXPAND THE 3954 03:06:21,057 --> 03:06:22,792 NETWORK WHERE WE DO THIS KIND OF 3955 03:06:22,792 --> 03:06:24,527 DATA COLLECTION IT'S NOT JUST 3956 03:06:24,527 --> 03:06:26,195 PATIENT EDUCATION BUT NOT EVERY 3957 03:06:26,195 --> 03:06:28,164 CENTER HAS CLINICIANS INVESTED 3958 03:06:28,164 --> 03:06:38,441 IN THE RESEARCH. 3959 03:06:40,810 --> 03:06:42,812 AND CONSENTING WOULD BE USEFUL 3960 03:06:42,812 --> 03:06:44,614 FOR CENTERS THAT MAY NOT BE 3961 03:06:44,614 --> 03:06:49,619 ENGAGED IN RESEARCH IN THAT 3962 03:06:49,619 --> 03:06:51,921 EXTEND TO HAVE LIKE INCORPORATE 3963 03:06:51,921 --> 03:06:52,655 CENTERS FOR RESEARCH. 3964 03:06:52,655 --> 03:06:55,691 I THINK I WANTED TO BRING UP 3965 03:06:55,691 --> 03:06:56,526 THAT POINT. 3966 03:06:56,526 --> 03:06:57,660 IT HAS BEEN A LEARNING CURVE FOR 3967 03:06:57,660 --> 03:07:02,131 ME AND I TOOK FOR GRANTED EVERY 3968 03:07:02,131 --> 03:07:04,634 CLINICIAN KNEW HOW TO TALK TO 3969 03:07:04,634 --> 03:07:07,970 PATIENTS AND I HAVE HAD PATIENTS 3970 03:07:07,970 --> 03:07:10,573 WHO HAVE BEEN DENIED TO DO A 3971 03:07:10,573 --> 03:07:12,241 STUDY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T EXPLAIN 3972 03:07:12,241 --> 03:07:12,608 IT WELL. 3973 03:07:12,608 --> 03:07:13,910 I THINK EDUCATION ON THAT PART 3974 03:07:13,910 --> 03:07:17,914 IS ALSO IMPORTANT. 3975 03:07:17,914 --> 03:07:19,682 THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR ENGAGING 3976 03:07:19,682 --> 03:07:29,859 PATIENTS. 3977 03:07:42,205 --> 03:07:43,639 >> ONE INTERESTING POINT IS 90% 3978 03:07:43,639 --> 03:07:46,142 OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IS NOT 3979 03:07:46,142 --> 03:07:49,745 SPECIFIC TO INTRACRANIAL AND I 3980 03:07:49,745 --> 03:07:50,546 THINK THAT'S FINE. 3981 03:07:50,546 --> 03:07:52,715 IN FACT I THINK THIS WAS BE 3982 03:07:52,715 --> 03:07:53,416 PLANNED AND THERE'S DISCUSSION 3983 03:07:53,416 --> 03:07:58,921 WHETHER TO SEPARATE THEM OR NOT. 3984 03:07:58,921 --> 03:08:08,364 AS THE NIH ORGANIZATIONERS ARE 3985 03:08:08,364 --> 03:08:10,399 TO BE CROSSED OVER BETWEEN 3986 03:08:10,399 --> 03:08:12,201 INVASIVE AND NON-INVASIVE 3987 03:08:12,201 --> 03:08:12,535 OPPORTUNITIES. 3988 03:08:12,535 --> 03:08:14,337 >> ONE QUICK THING THAT'S A HUGE 3989 03:08:14,337 --> 03:08:17,073 DIFFERENCE AND RELATES TO WHERE 3990 03:08:17,073 --> 03:08:20,943 WE'VE BEEN THE PAST FIVE OR 10 3991 03:08:20,943 --> 03:08:24,247 MINUTES, YOU CAN DO NON-INVASIVE 3992 03:08:24,247 --> 03:08:25,615 RECORDING AND BRAIN STIMULATION 3993 03:08:25,615 --> 03:08:29,919 FOR PEOPLE WITH NO DISEASE AND 3994 03:08:29,919 --> 03:08:33,990 AS OF NOW NOBODY HAS VENTURED 3995 03:08:33,990 --> 03:08:39,362 INTO LETS TAKE IT INTO A HEALTHY 3996 03:08:39,362 --> 03:08:40,429 PERSON TO 3997 03:08:40,429 --> 03:08:40,830 [AUDIO DIGITIZING] 3998 03:08:40,830 --> 03:08:44,200 AND LET'S JUST THROW SOMEONE IN 3999 03:08:44,200 --> 03:08:47,570 FOR 30 DAYS WHO IS OSTENSIBLY A 4000 03:08:47,570 --> 03:08:48,237 HEALTHY CONTROL. 4001 03:08:48,237 --> 03:08:51,107 THAT WOULD BE A FASCINATING 4002 03:08:51,107 --> 03:08:52,375 EXPERIMENT AND WOULD NEED A 4003 03:08:52,375 --> 03:08:53,976 NEURAL CONFERENCE TO GET THERE 4004 03:08:53,976 --> 03:08:58,481 BUT THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. 4005 03:08:58,481 --> 03:09:03,853 EVERYTHING WE HAVE DONE SO FAR 4006 03:09:03,853 --> 03:09:08,491 HAS TO BE ONE STEP OVER FROM THE 4007 03:09:08,491 --> 03:09:12,295 BENEFITS AND GETTING TO ALLEN'S 4008 03:09:12,295 --> 03:09:13,930 POINT OF TAKING WHAT WE'RE DOING 4009 03:09:13,930 --> 03:09:16,432 AND MAKE IT EPSILON BETTER 4010 03:09:16,432 --> 03:09:19,268 VERSUS HOW DOES THE BRAIN WORK 4011 03:09:19,268 --> 03:09:20,803 CURIOSITY DRIVEN. 4012 03:09:20,803 --> 03:09:31,347 MAYBE BOB HAS A FURTHER COMMENT. 4013 03:09:34,150 --> 03:09:36,552 >> MY VIDEO'S BLOCKED. 4014 03:09:36,552 --> 03:09:38,521 A COUPLE POINTS TO WHAT HELEN 4015 03:09:38,521 --> 03:09:40,089 SAID AND WE'VE HAD A CONSORTIUM 4016 03:09:40,089 --> 03:09:44,460 OF THREE TO FIVE MED CENTERS AND 4017 03:09:44,460 --> 03:09:51,400 THAT YOU LO -- THAT ALLOWS TO 4018 03:09:51,400 --> 03:09:55,705 DO TESTS TO ACCUMULATE DATA 4019 03:09:55,705 --> 03:10:01,711 BETTER AND A MIKE -- MICROLEVEL 4020 03:10:01,711 --> 03:10:04,313 AND I'VE BEEN POSTING ON JOURNAL 4021 03:10:04,313 --> 03:10:05,047 WEBSITES FOREVER AND NOBODY 4022 03:10:05,047 --> 03:10:06,983 SEEMS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THEM. 4023 03:10:06,983 --> 03:10:09,051 WHETHER THAT WOULD BE A VALUABLE 4024 03:10:09,051 --> 03:10:11,988 OR NOT I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW BUT 4025 03:10:11,988 --> 03:10:16,692 HAVING COLLABORATIONS ACROSS 4026 03:10:16,692 --> 03:10:17,860 THREE OR FOUR DBS SITES WHERE 4027 03:10:17,860 --> 03:10:20,563 YOU DO DIFFERENT TASKS AND DOING 4028 03:10:20,563 --> 03:10:22,898 A DIFFERENT PERSON TASKS YOU'LL 4029 03:10:22,898 --> 03:10:24,033 GET A LOT OF DATA QUICKER. 4030 03:10:24,033 --> 03:10:29,672 I THINK THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO GO 4031 03:10:29,672 --> 03:10:31,407 AND YOU'RE COMMUNICATING THE 4032 03:10:31,407 --> 03:10:32,908 OTHER THING ABOUT THE ETHICS 4033 03:10:32,908 --> 03:10:35,177 PART AND WHAT WORKS BASED ON 4034 03:10:35,177 --> 03:10:37,580 INPUT FROM WINSTON CHUNG I DON'T 4035 03:10:37,580 --> 03:10:39,315 KNOW IF YOU DISCUSSED IT A 4036 03:10:39,315 --> 03:10:40,082 MISSED A SESSION YESTERDAY, 4037 03:10:40,082 --> 03:10:50,359 TEACH TO LEARN. 4038 03:10:56,932 --> 03:10:58,401 AND IF THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE 4039 03:10:58,401 --> 03:11:01,270 TALKING ABOUT THEY'RE DONE AND 4040 03:11:01,270 --> 03:11:02,338 TWO THINGS THEY DON'T GET RIGHT 4041 03:11:02,338 --> 03:11:05,408 YOU GO BACK AND GO OVER THAT ON 4042 03:11:05,408 --> 03:11:08,077 THE CONSENT JUST TO REALLY MAKE 4043 03:11:08,077 --> 03:11:10,012 SURE THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT 4044 03:11:10,012 --> 03:11:12,114 YOU'RE DOING. 4045 03:11:12,114 --> 03:11:15,451 SO I THINK WE'LL BE STARTING 4046 03:11:15,451 --> 03:11:16,018 THAT IN THE NEXT SERIES OF 4047 03:11:16,018 --> 03:11:26,195 PATIENTS. 4048 03:11:26,896 --> 03:11:29,231 >> I THINK WE'RE AT TIME. 4049 03:11:29,231 --> 03:11:31,100 THANKS FOR THE RICH DISCUSSION. 4050 03:11:31,100 --> 03:11:32,868 I THINK WE'VE GOT A LOT OF THE 4051 03:11:32,868 --> 03:11:40,943 JUICE SQUEEZED OUT. 4052 03:11:40,943 --> 03:11:43,546 BACK TO ANDREW. 4053 03:11:43,546 --> 03:11:45,681 >> I THANK ALL THE PANELISTS FOR 4054 03:11:45,681 --> 03:11:46,849 THE RICH DISCUSSION I THINK 4055 03:11:46,849 --> 03:11:48,484 COULD HAVE GONE ON LONGER FOR 4056 03:11:48,484 --> 03:11:49,251 THE INTERESTING AND COMPLEXITIES 4057 03:11:49,251 --> 03:11:59,495 TOE CONSIDER. 4058 03:11:59,929 --> 03:12:02,298 AND WE HAVE THE NEXT SESSION AND 4059 03:12:02,298 --> 03:12:04,433 IT'S MY PLEASURE TO HAND IT OVER 4060 03:12:04,433 --> 03:12:05,401 FOR THE NEXT SESSION. 4061 03:12:05,401 --> 03:12:10,573 >> WELCOME TO THE FINAL SESSION. 4062 03:12:10,573 --> 03:12:15,478 I THINK A LOT OF THE CONTENT 4063 03:12:15,478 --> 03:12:17,480 WOULD BE CONGRUOUS WITH THE LAST 4064 03:12:17,480 --> 03:12:19,949 SESSION AND WOULD LIKE TO GET 4065 03:12:19,949 --> 03:12:21,417 INTO NON-INVASIVE SPECIFIC 4066 03:12:21,417 --> 03:12:26,489 TOPICS AND USE OUR PRESENCE TO 4067 03:12:26,489 --> 03:12:28,457 CONSIDER THE NON-INVASIVE 4068 03:12:28,457 --> 03:12:31,894 STIMULATION PARTICULARLY TO THE 4069 03:12:31,894 --> 03:12:34,230 GENERAL QUESTIONS AND BIG 4070 03:12:34,230 --> 03:12:35,965 PICTURE IDEA FOR DATA 4071 03:12:35,965 --> 03:12:36,732 HARMONIZATION AND EFFORTS AND 4072 03:12:36,732 --> 03:12:40,136 THE NITTY-GRITTY. 4073 03:12:40,136 --> 03:12:42,338 THIS IS BY SOMETHING WISE THAT 4074 03:12:42,338 --> 03:12:43,773 MIKE FOX BROUGHT UP IN THE LAST 4075 03:12:43,773 --> 03:12:47,243 SESSION WAS THAT I THINK YOU 4076 03:12:47,243 --> 03:12:49,011 SAID THERE'S AN INFINITE NUMBER 4077 03:12:49,011 --> 03:12:51,080 OF COOL THINGS WE COULD DO AND 4078 03:12:51,080 --> 03:12:52,415 HOW DO WE CONSTRAIN WHAT WE'RE 4079 03:12:52,415 --> 03:12:53,883 DOING BASED ON WHAT WE CAN DO 4080 03:12:53,883 --> 03:12:56,452 AND WHAT OUR GOALS ARE? 4081 03:12:56,452 --> 03:12:59,321 I'D LIKE TO HAVE A BIT OF A 4082 03:12:59,321 --> 03:13:00,489 CONVERSATION TO NARROW DOWN THAT 4083 03:13:00,489 --> 03:13:06,295 SPACE A LITTLE BIT. 4084 03:13:06,295 --> 03:13:07,062 AND CONSIDERATIONS WITHIN THE 4085 03:13:07,062 --> 03:13:10,366 VERY BROAD NON-INVASIVE 4086 03:13:10,366 --> 03:13:11,567 STIMULATION ECO SYSTEM MOST 4087 03:13:11,567 --> 03:13:17,206 USEFUL FOR ADDRESSING THE 4088 03:13:17,206 --> 03:13:18,040 CONCEPTUAL GOALS THAT WERE 4089 03:13:18,040 --> 03:13:19,975 RAISED DURING DAY ONE AND IN THE 4090 03:13:19,975 --> 03:13:30,286 MODELLING SESSION. 4091 03:13:47,436 --> 03:13:48,871 >> THANK YOU, ALEC FOR SETTING 4092 03:13:48,871 --> 03:13:49,371 ME UP. 4093 03:13:49,371 --> 03:13:51,740 WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT 4094 03:13:51,740 --> 03:13:52,908 INVASIVE STIMULATION AND 4095 03:13:52,908 --> 03:13:54,510 RECORDING METHODS FOR THE LAST 4096 03:13:54,510 --> 03:13:56,145 COUPLE DAYS AND SO I WANT TO 4097 03:13:56,145 --> 03:14:01,951 GIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF SOME OF 4098 03:14:01,951 --> 03:14:12,127 THE PROS AND CONS AND LOOK AT 4099 03:14:12,127 --> 03:14:13,028 DISORDERED AND HEALTHY BRAINS. 4100 03:14:13,028 --> 03:14:16,098 THIS ALLOWS TO TEST QUESTIONS 4101 03:14:16,098 --> 03:14:21,737 AND FACILITATE INFERENCES ABOUT 4102 03:14:21,737 --> 03:14:25,341 TYPICAL BRAIN FUNCTION. 4103 03:14:25,341 --> 03:14:26,976 IN PARTICULAR REGIONS AND NOT 4104 03:14:26,976 --> 03:14:30,179 LIMITED TO EPILEPSY NETWORKS OR 4105 03:14:30,179 --> 03:14:40,623 OTHER AFFECTED LOCATIONS. 4106 03:14:40,956 --> 03:14:43,792 YOU ONLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME WITH 4107 03:14:43,792 --> 03:14:45,628 A PATIENT IN THE O.R. SO MUCH 4108 03:14:45,628 --> 03:14:51,667 TIME THEY'RE ABLE TO PAY 4109 03:14:51,667 --> 03:14:55,070 ATTENTION IN THE EPILEPSY 4110 03:14:55,070 --> 03:14:56,605 MONITORING UNITS AND CAN PEOPLE 4111 03:14:56,605 --> 03:14:57,806 IN FOR MULTIPLE SESSIONS THAT 4112 03:14:57,806 --> 03:15:00,242 CAN LAST FOR HOURS AND RUN 4113 03:15:00,242 --> 03:15:01,110 THROUGH STIMULATION PARAMETER 4114 03:15:01,110 --> 03:15:03,546 SPACES WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO 4115 03:15:03,546 --> 03:15:04,813 TEST THINGS OUT AND MEANS IT'S 4116 03:15:04,813 --> 03:15:06,749 NOT TOO DIFFICULT TO INTEGRATE 4117 03:15:06,749 --> 03:15:08,817 WITH BEHAVIORAL MEASURES OF ANY 4118 03:15:08,817 --> 03:15:09,752 NECESSARY COMPLEXITY YOU WANT TO 4119 03:15:09,752 --> 03:15:20,229 TRY TO STUDY OR INCORPORATE. 4120 03:15:22,598 --> 03:15:25,734 THE SPECIFICITY IS HORE THAN 4121 03:15:25,734 --> 03:15:27,670 EVASIVE SIMULATION. 4122 03:15:27,670 --> 03:15:30,105 THE EXPERIMENTAL DESIGNS MUST 4123 03:15:30,105 --> 03:15:34,109 ACCOUNT FOR SALIENT SIDE EFFECTS 4124 03:15:34,109 --> 03:15:35,844 AND FEELINGS YOU HAVE WHEN 4125 03:15:35,844 --> 03:15:38,747 YOU'RE STIMULATED AND PAINFUL 4126 03:15:38,747 --> 03:15:40,382 AND DISTRACTFUL AND POTENTIAL 4127 03:15:40,382 --> 03:15:44,853 OFF TARGET ON THE PERIPHERAL 4128 03:15:44,853 --> 03:15:46,655 NERVOUS SYSTEM AND CRANIAL 4129 03:15:46,655 --> 03:15:46,889 NERVES. 4130 03:15:46,889 --> 03:15:52,194 AND NON-IAN VASIVE METHODS 4131 03:15:52,194 --> 03:15:53,562 UNLIKE INVASIVE STIMULATION 4132 03:15:53,562 --> 03:15:55,664 WHERE YOU CAN RECORD AND RO USE 4133 03:15:55,664 --> 03:15:58,667 THE ELECTRODES FOR DELIVERING 4134 03:15:58,667 --> 03:16:00,603 AND NON-INVASIVE STIMULATION 4135 03:16:00,603 --> 03:16:02,605 DOESN'T PLAY WELL WITH THE 4136 03:16:02,605 --> 03:16:05,307 METHODS AND THE IMMEDIATE IMPACT 4137 03:16:05,307 --> 03:16:07,376 ON NEURAL ACTIVITY. 4138 03:16:07,376 --> 03:16:08,877 YOU INJECT FAIRLY LARGE 4139 03:16:08,877 --> 03:16:11,981 AMPLITUDES OF ELECTRICITY OR 4140 03:16:11,981 --> 03:16:15,050 MAGNETIC FIELDS ON THE OUTSIDE 4141 03:16:15,050 --> 03:16:16,218 THEIR HEAD DISRUPTS NEURAL 4142 03:16:16,218 --> 03:16:18,120 RECORDING METHODS ELECTRICAL OR 4143 03:16:18,120 --> 03:16:28,330 fMRI BASED. 4144 03:16:28,797 --> 03:16:31,100 I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT RELEVANT 4145 03:16:31,100 --> 03:16:35,404 THEMES FROM DAY ONE I HOPE TO 4146 03:16:35,404 --> 03:16:37,673 ADDRESS AS A PANEL AND LET'S 4147 03:16:37,673 --> 03:16:39,241 TAKE A BREAK AND INTRODUCE 4148 03:16:39,241 --> 03:16:49,752 EVERYBODY ON THE PANEL FIRST. 4149 03:16:50,486 --> 03:16:53,756 I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GREAT IF 4150 03:16:53,756 --> 03:16:55,624 EVERYBODY CAN SAY HELLO AND AN A 4151 03:16:55,624 --> 03:16:57,960 WORD OR TWO ABOUT YOUR 4152 03:16:57,960 --> 03:17:00,562 CONNECTION TO INVASIVE OR 4153 03:17:00,562 --> 03:17:02,798 NON-INVASIVE BRAIN STIMULATION 4154 03:17:02,798 --> 03:17:03,065 APPROACH. 4155 03:17:03,065 --> 03:17:05,901 I'M JOEL WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF 4156 03:17:05,901 --> 03:17:15,911 CHICAGO AND WORK IN NON-INVASIVE 4157 03:17:15,911 --> 03:17:18,147 AND STUDIES IN EPISODIC MEMORY. 4158 03:17:18,147 --> 03:17:27,222 THE NEXT PERSON IS BRUCE LUBER. 4159 03:17:27,222 --> 03:17:30,492 >> I'M IN THE INTERIM PROGRAM AT 4160 03:17:30,492 --> 03:17:32,194 THE NIMHD. 4161 03:17:32,194 --> 03:17:34,863 I'VE SPENT THE LAST 25 YEARS 4162 03:17:34,863 --> 03:17:39,902 DOING TMS RESEARCH TRYING TO 4163 03:17:39,902 --> 03:17:44,840 FIND WAYS TO ENHANCE PERFORMANCE 4164 03:17:44,840 --> 03:17:49,211 IN EXECUTIVE PROCESS. 4165 03:17:49,211 --> 03:17:52,715 >> NEXT IS ELISA. 4166 03:17:52,715 --> 03:17:56,452 >> I'M AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT 4167 03:17:56,452 --> 03:17:58,187 THE NEW JERSEY INSTITUTE OF 4168 03:17:58,187 --> 03:17:59,088 TECHNOLOGY. 4169 03:17:59,088 --> 03:18:03,926 I DO COMBINED TMS WITH NEURAL 4170 03:18:03,926 --> 03:18:08,230 PHYSIOLOGICAL AND TMS EMG AND 4171 03:18:08,230 --> 03:18:12,534 STUDY HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS AND 4172 03:18:12,534 --> 03:18:12,801 PATIENTS. 4173 03:18:12,801 --> 03:18:14,002 >> EARL MILLER. 4174 03:18:14,002 --> 03:18:18,407 >> I'M AT M.I.T. AND STUDY 4175 03:18:18,407 --> 03:18:22,077 NON-HUMAN PRIMATES AND INVASIVE 4176 03:18:22,077 --> 03:18:26,882 AND NON-INVASIVE AND THE GOAL IS 4177 03:18:26,882 --> 03:18:27,516 TO DEVELOP NON-INVASIVE TO BE 4178 03:18:27,516 --> 03:18:33,088 USED EVENTUALLY IN HUMANS. 4179 03:18:33,088 --> 03:18:43,632 >> I'M ALEX OPI TZ IN MINNESOTA 4180 03:18:45,134 --> 03:18:48,937 AND I'M A BASIC PHYSICS AND 4181 03:18:48,937 --> 03:18:51,440 TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPER. 4182 03:18:51,440 --> 03:18:54,476 >> AND DAMIEN FAIR. 4183 03:18:54,476 --> 03:18:56,245 >> I'M ALSO FROM THE UNIVERSITY 4184 03:18:56,245 --> 03:19:01,450 OF MINNESOTA AND CO-DIRECTOR OF 4185 03:19:01,450 --> 03:19:02,951 THE INSTITUTE FOR THE DEVELOPING 4186 03:19:02,951 --> 03:19:06,588 BRAIN AND DO IMAGING WITH 4187 03:19:06,588 --> 03:19:09,858 FUNCTI 4188 03:19:09,858 --> 03:19:10,926 FUNCTIONAL MRI AND HIGH 4189 03:19:10,926 --> 03:19:12,461 RESOLUTION INDIVIDUALS AND 4190 03:19:12,461 --> 03:19:16,064 GETTING PULLED IN THE HUMAN 4191 03:19:16,064 --> 03:19:18,033 INVASIVE AND NON-INVASIVE 4192 03:19:18,033 --> 03:19:18,667 MODULATION REALM LEVERAGING THE 4193 03:19:18,667 --> 03:19:26,241 TOOLS. 4194 03:19:26,241 --> 03:19:27,743 >> COREY KELLER. 4195 03:19:27,743 --> 03:19:30,813 >> I USE MODALITIES IN HUMANS TO 4196 03:19:30,813 --> 03:19:32,247 UNDERSTAND HOW REPETITIVE 4197 03:19:32,247 --> 03:19:35,117 PATTERNS OF INDUCED PLASTICITY 4198 03:19:35,117 --> 03:19:38,187 ELEVATE SYMPTOMS OF MENTAL 4199 03:19:38,187 --> 03:19:39,588 HEALTH DISORDERS. 4200 03:19:39,588 --> 03:19:45,227 >> AND GABRIEL LAZARO MUNOZ. 4201 03:19:45,227 --> 03:19:47,362 >> AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL AND 4202 03:19:47,362 --> 03:19:54,069 PSYCHIATRY AND I FOCUS ON 4203 03:19:54,069 --> 03:19:56,338 ETHICAL, LEGAL AND IMPLICATIONS 4204 03:19:56,338 --> 03:19:58,273 OF TECHNOLOGIES. 4205 03:19:58,273 --> 03:20:02,578 >> I'M AT THE LAUREATE INSTITUTE 4206 03:20:02,578 --> 03:20:03,478 OF BRAIN RESEARCH. 4207 03:20:03,478 --> 03:20:05,113 I'M THE DIRECTOR OF BIO 4208 03:20:05,113 --> 03:20:09,218 STATISTICS FOR THE ATLAS BRAIN 4209 03:20:09,218 --> 03:20:11,854 DEVELOPMENT STUDY AND HCD STUDY. 4210 03:20:11,854 --> 03:20:15,490 I'M CURIOUS IF WE COULD COMMENT 4211 03:20:15,490 --> 03:20:17,426 OR DISCUSS HOW OBSERVATIONAL 4212 03:20:17,426 --> 03:20:20,162 STUDIES CAN INFORM STUDY AND 4213 03:20:20,162 --> 03:20:21,196 HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET TO THAT IN 4214 03:20:21,196 --> 03:20:22,598 THE CONVERSATION. 4215 03:20:22,598 --> 03:20:33,075 >> AND FINALLY THE CO-CHAIR. 4216 03:20:46,755 --> 03:20:49,291 >> I'M A PROGRAM DIRECTOR IN THE 4217 03:20:49,291 --> 03:20:53,462 BASIC AND MECHANISTIC BRANCH AT 4218 03:20:53,462 --> 03:20:57,933 THE NATIONAL CENTER FOR 4219 03:20:57,933 --> 03:20:59,067 COMPLEMENTARY AND INTEGRATIVE 4220 03:20:59,067 --> 03:21:03,505 HEALTH AND WE FOCUSSED ON THE 4221 03:21:03,505 --> 03:21:04,806 DEVELOPMENT OF NEW NON-INVASIVE 4222 03:21:04,806 --> 03:21:05,807 IMAGING TOOLS AND TECHNOLOGIES. 4223 03:21:05,807 --> 03:21:08,443 I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE 4224 03:21:08,443 --> 03:21:09,611 WONDERFUL DISCUSSION ALL OF YOU 4225 03:21:09,611 --> 03:21:09,878 WILL LEAD. 4226 03:21:09,878 --> 03:21:19,655 THANK YOU SO MUCH. 4227 03:21:19,655 --> 03:21:23,592 >> I'D LIKE TO DO EYE HIGHLIGHT 4228 03:21:23,592 --> 03:21:24,927 OF RELEVANT THEMES FROM DAY ONE 4229 03:21:24,927 --> 03:21:26,061 THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN 4230 03:21:26,061 --> 03:21:35,904 MIND TO MOTIVATE OUR DISCUSSION 4231 03:21:35,904 --> 03:21:41,076 AND SOME THEMES TO SUMMARIZE 4232 03:21:41,076 --> 03:21:45,047 THAT IT'S BENEFICIAL TO MEASURE 4233 03:21:45,047 --> 03:21:46,581 THE IMPACT OF STIMULATION ON 4234 03:21:46,581 --> 03:21:52,254 BRAIN ACTIVITY DIRECTLY. 4235 03:21:52,254 --> 03:21:55,657 AND EXTRA HELPFUL IF THEY 4236 03:21:55,657 --> 03:21:58,126 CAPTURE DYNAMICS WHERE PEOPLE 4237 03:21:58,126 --> 03:22:00,696 MEANT HIGH SPATIAL, TEMPORAL 4238 03:22:00,696 --> 03:22:01,897 RESOLUTION TO MEASURE 4239 03:22:01,897 --> 03:22:03,832 BI-DIRECTION INFLUENCES OF BRAIN 4240 03:22:03,832 --> 03:22:05,000 ACTIVITY AND STIMULATION. 4241 03:22:05,000 --> 03:22:06,535 PEOPLE WERE SAYING BRAIN 4242 03:22:06,535 --> 03:22:08,537 ACTIVITY PROVIDES A CONTEXT THAT 4243 03:22:08,537 --> 03:22:11,873 CAN MODIFY THE EFFECT OF 4244 03:22:11,873 --> 03:22:13,642 STIMULATION ON THE BRAIN AND 4245 03:22:13,642 --> 03:22:14,543 STIMULATION AFFECTS BRAIN 4246 03:22:14,543 --> 03:22:14,843 ACTIVITY. 4247 03:22:14,843 --> 03:22:16,578 IF YOU WANT TO RESOLVE THAT 4248 03:22:16,578 --> 03:22:18,347 COMPLEX INTERPLAY IT WOULD BE 4249 03:22:18,347 --> 03:22:19,781 HELPFUL TO HAVE THOSE 4250 03:22:19,781 --> 03:22:27,656 MEASUREMENTS AND METHODS THAT 4251 03:22:27,656 --> 03:22:35,130 CAN RECORD THOSE AND IT'S 4252 03:22:35,130 --> 03:22:36,264 IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER A WIDE 4253 03:22:36,264 --> 03:22:38,166 VARIETY OF FORMS FROM BRAIN 4254 03:22:38,166 --> 03:22:40,535 STRUCTURE LIKE CONNECTIVITY AND 4255 03:22:40,535 --> 03:22:43,205 PHYSIOLOGY AND PATTERNS TO 4256 03:22:43,205 --> 03:22:48,643 BEHAVIORS OF PERFORMANCE AND TRY 4257 03:22:48,643 --> 03:22:53,248 TO ACCOUNT FOR THOSE WHEN TRYING 4258 03:22:53,248 --> 03:22:55,784 TO UNDERSTAND THE EFFECTS OF 4259 03:22:55,784 --> 03:22:58,020 STIMULATION AND LOOK AT 4260 03:22:58,020 --> 03:22:58,820 SOPHISTICATED BEHAVIORAL 4261 03:22:58,820 --> 03:23:05,160 MEASURES WITH A WIDE RANGE OF 4262 03:23:05,160 --> 03:23:06,962 WHAT THEY THOUGHT BE FROM 4263 03:23:06,962 --> 03:23:08,563 NATURALISTIC TO CONSTRAINED AND 4264 03:23:08,563 --> 03:23:18,640 LABORATORY BASED. 4265 03:23:18,640 --> 03:23:20,809 AND UNDERSTANDING IN ORDER TO 4266 03:23:20,809 --> 03:23:24,379 USE STIMULATION AS A TOOL TO 4267 03:23:24,379 --> 03:23:25,514 UNDERSTAND HOW BRAIN SUPPORTS 4268 03:23:25,514 --> 03:23:25,781 COGNITION. 4269 03:23:25,781 --> 03:23:27,482 UNDERSTAND THE LOCAL EFFECTS OF 4270 03:23:27,482 --> 03:23:29,451 STIMULATION AND THE DISTRIBUTED 4271 03:23:29,451 --> 03:23:31,653 EFFECTS OF STIMULATION 4272 03:23:31,653 --> 03:23:33,455 THROUGHOUT THE NETWORK. 4273 03:23:33,455 --> 03:23:38,627 AND THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO 4274 03:23:38,627 --> 03:23:45,500 UNDERSTAND THESE ARE TERMS AND 4275 03:23:45,500 --> 03:23:47,269 UNDERSTAND BOTH DISRUPTION AND 4276 03:23:47,269 --> 03:23:49,204 PERTURBATION IN MANIPULATIONS 4277 03:23:49,204 --> 03:23:50,872 AND ENHANCEMENT LIKE EFFECTS 4278 03:23:50,872 --> 03:23:54,142 WHAT PEOPLE WERE CALLING 4279 03:23:54,142 --> 03:23:54,643 STIMULATION. 4280 03:23:54,643 --> 03:23:56,912 AND THAT THE EFFECTS OF 4281 03:23:56,912 --> 03:23:59,648 STIMULATION AND ESPECIALLY FOR 4282 03:23:59,648 --> 03:24:02,484 THE ENHANCEMENT EFFECTS MAY 4283 03:24:02,484 --> 03:24:05,954 DEPEND ON SOME WAY OF MATCHING 4284 03:24:05,954 --> 03:24:06,822 STIMULATION TO BRAIN STATE. 4285 03:24:06,822 --> 03:24:09,224 IT'S A TOPIC THAT CAME UP 4286 03:24:09,224 --> 03:24:13,161 CONSISTENTLY OPPOSED TO USING 4287 03:24:13,161 --> 03:24:14,496 HIGH-FREQUENCY STIMULATION TO 4288 03:24:14,496 --> 03:24:16,731 MEASURE THE BRAIN STATE AND 4289 03:24:16,731 --> 03:24:19,634 MEASURE SOME PATTERN STIMULATION 4290 03:24:19,634 --> 03:24:21,069 TO MIMIC WHAT THE BRAIN IS DOING 4291 03:24:21,069 --> 03:24:22,938 TO IMPROVE ITS FUNCTION. 4292 03:24:22,938 --> 03:24:24,706 AND THE FINAL THEME WAS THAT IT 4293 03:24:24,706 --> 03:24:27,042 WILL BE IMPORTANT TO USE METHODS 4294 03:24:27,042 --> 03:24:32,147 THAT CAN BE INCORPORATED TO 4295 03:24:32,147 --> 03:24:34,349 RELEVANT NON-HUMAN ANIMAL MODELS 4296 03:24:34,349 --> 03:24:36,118 TO GO BEYOND IN TERM OF 4297 03:24:36,118 --> 03:24:37,619 MECHANISTIC DETAILS WHAT IS 4298 03:24:37,619 --> 03:24:40,388 POSSIBLE TO ACCOMPLISH IN HUMANS 4299 03:24:40,388 --> 03:24:41,823 AND FOCUSSING ON THE AREAS WHERE 4300 03:24:41,823 --> 03:24:51,233 YOU CAN MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS. 4301 03:24:51,233 --> 03:24:52,267 MOTIVATED BY THE THEMES TRYING 4302 03:24:52,267 --> 03:24:53,702 TO COME UP WITH QUESTIONS TO 4303 03:24:53,702 --> 03:25:04,179 KICK OFF OUR CONVERSATIONS. 4304 03:25:06,715 --> 03:25:09,518 LOOKING AT NON-INVASIVE 4305 03:25:09,518 --> 03:25:11,920 SIMULATION STUDIES WHAT ARE THE 4306 03:25:11,920 --> 03:25:16,291 CHALLENGES AND CONSTRAINTS IN 4307 03:25:16,291 --> 03:25:19,661 USING SIMULATION TO ADDRESS THE 4308 03:25:19,661 --> 03:25:23,231 CONCEPTUAL IMPORTANCE OF THOSE 4309 03:25:23,231 --> 03:25:23,932 WHO HAVE SPOKEN TO THE FIELD. 4310 03:25:23,932 --> 03:25:25,534 ONE MORE POINT IS THE DATA 4311 03:25:25,534 --> 03:25:27,869 NEEDED TO BE AMENABLE TO 4312 03:25:27,869 --> 03:25:30,005 MODELLING THE EFFECTS OF 4313 03:25:30,005 --> 03:25:32,807 STIMULATION ON BRAIN BEHAVIOR 4314 03:25:32,807 --> 03:25:34,409 RELATIONSHIPS. 4315 03:25:34,409 --> 03:25:36,478 SO HERE ARE THE FIVE DISCUSSION 4316 03:25:36,478 --> 03:25:37,412 QUESTIONS I THOUGHT WE COULD 4317 03:25:37,412 --> 03:25:40,615 START OFF WITH. 4318 03:25:40,615 --> 03:25:42,217 SO THE FIRST ONE IS ON THIS 4319 03:25:42,217 --> 03:25:45,654 THEME OF PAIRING NON-INVASIVE 4320 03:25:45,654 --> 03:25:46,721 STIMULATION METHODS AND NEURAL 4321 03:25:46,721 --> 03:25:48,523 RECORDING METHODS. 4322 03:25:48,523 --> 03:25:50,692 SO WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES IN 4323 03:25:50,692 --> 03:25:52,294 TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO STIMULATE 4324 03:25:52,294 --> 03:25:54,296 AND RECORD TO MEASURE LOCAL AND 4325 03:25:54,296 --> 03:25:55,664 NETWORK LEVEL EFFECTS OF 4326 03:25:55,664 --> 03:26:04,639 STIMULATION. 4327 03:26:04,639 --> 03:26:08,410 AND SATISFY THE NEED OF 4328 03:26:08,410 --> 03:26:09,077 ANATOMICAL AND SPECIFICITY TO 4329 03:26:09,077 --> 03:26:10,779 ADDRESS DYNAMICS. 4330 03:26:10,779 --> 03:26:14,182 WHAT LEVELS OF THESE 4331 03:26:14,182 --> 03:26:22,023 STIMULATIONS AND RECORDINGS AND 4332 03:26:22,023 --> 03:26:25,694 HOPEFULLY THAT'S A GOOD KICKOFF 4333 03:26:25,694 --> 03:26:25,961 QUESTION. 4334 03:26:25,961 --> 03:26:36,471 WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO JUMP IN? 4335 03:26:42,043 --> 03:26:44,079 >> TALKING ABOUT MODULATED 4336 03:26:44,079 --> 03:26:47,616 STIMULATION CONNECTED TO A 4337 03:26:47,616 --> 03:26:49,117 NON-INVASIVE RECORDING IN HUMANS 4338 03:26:49,117 --> 03:26:55,490 AND HELPING PARTICIPANTS OR 4339 03:26:55,490 --> 03:26:58,260 MEASURES LIKE EEG, fMRI, THIS IS 4340 03:26:58,260 --> 03:27:03,798 AT THE RECORDING LEVEL IS 4341 03:27:03,798 --> 03:27:04,266 LIMITED. 4342 03:27:04,266 --> 03:27:06,301 AND HAVE INNOVATIVE RECORDING 4343 03:27:06,301 --> 03:27:10,805 AND WANTED TO MAKE A BRIDGE TO 4344 03:27:10,805 --> 03:27:14,876 THE EARLIER SESSION HIGHLIGHTING 4345 03:27:14,876 --> 03:27:16,478 INVASIVE MEASUREMENTS IN 4346 03:27:16,478 --> 03:27:22,550 OCCUPATIONS OR IN NON-HUMAN 4347 03:27:22,550 --> 03:27:26,454 PRIMATES FOR EXAMPLE STUDY THE 4348 03:27:26,454 --> 03:27:28,123 MECHANISM OF NON-INVASIVE 4349 03:27:28,123 --> 03:27:29,791 STIMULATION AND SIGNALS THAT ARE 4350 03:27:29,791 --> 03:27:35,664 SOMEWHAT TRANSLATIONAL TO 4351 03:27:35,664 --> 03:27:39,634 NON-INVASIVE RECORDING AND 4352 03:27:39,634 --> 03:27:44,606 THERE'S BEEN A GREAT OPPORTUNITY 4353 03:27:44,606 --> 03:27:52,814 TO STUDY THAT 4354 03:27:52,814 --> 03:27:55,283 >> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT 4355 03:27:55,283 --> 03:27:59,087 SPECIFICITY THERE'S SPATIAL 4356 03:27:59,087 --> 03:28:01,156 SPECIFICITY AND FOR THE 4357 03:28:01,156 --> 03:28:03,658 INFLUENCES OF THESE ONGOING 4358 03:28:03,658 --> 03:28:09,264 DYNAMICS AND OSCILLATIONS, THEY 4359 03:28:09,264 --> 03:28:12,100 ACTUALLY PRODUCE NETWORK EFFECTS 4360 03:28:12,100 --> 03:28:14,002 AND SPATIAL SPECIFICITY IS THERE 4361 03:28:14,002 --> 03:28:16,004 AND MAYBE BE LESS IN TERMS OF 4362 03:28:16,004 --> 03:28:18,406 INFLUENCE BUT IN TERMS OF THE 4363 03:28:18,406 --> 03:28:20,909 AFFECTS YOU WANT SOME 4364 03:28:20,909 --> 03:28:21,743 SPECIFICITY IN THE ACTION. 4365 03:28:21,743 --> 03:28:24,045 I WANT TO MAKE A POINT THAT I 4366 03:28:24,045 --> 03:28:28,283 THINK PEOPLE WILL ASSUME THERE'S 4367 03:28:28,283 --> 03:28:30,085 A RELATIVELY STRAIGHT 4368 03:28:30,085 --> 03:28:32,253 CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE ACTIVITY 4369 03:28:32,253 --> 03:28:34,322 INSIDE THE BRAIN AND SKULL. 4370 03:28:34,322 --> 03:28:36,391 IT'S A FILTERING PROBLEM THE 4371 03:28:36,391 --> 03:28:38,259 SKULL AND MUSCLES GET RID OF THE 4372 03:28:38,259 --> 03:28:40,295 FREQUENCIES BUT IT'S NOT 4373 03:28:40,295 --> 03:28:42,764 NECESSARILY THE CASE. 4374 03:28:42,764 --> 03:28:46,000 MARCUS SIEGEL DID A STUDY 4375 03:28:46,000 --> 03:28:47,736 SHOWING THE CORRESPONDENCE FROM 4376 03:28:47,736 --> 03:28:49,537 EEG INSIDE THE SKULL AND OUTSIDE 4377 03:28:49,537 --> 03:28:52,307 THE SKULL OF THE MONKEYS YOU GET 4378 03:28:52,307 --> 03:28:58,913 MORE DEEP LAYER ACTIVITY FROM 4379 03:28:58,913 --> 03:29:00,415 EEG IN THE VISUAL CORTEX. 4380 03:29:00,415 --> 03:29:02,350 THE CROSS-SPECIES CONNECTIONS 4381 03:29:02,350 --> 03:29:02,984 ARE VERY IMPORTANT. 4382 03:29:02,984 --> 03:29:04,953 WE'RE DOING WORK WHERE WE'RE 4383 03:29:04,953 --> 03:29:07,021 DOING RECORDING AND STIMULATION 4384 03:29:07,021 --> 03:29:09,290 INSIDE THE SKULL AND RECORDING 4385 03:29:09,290 --> 03:29:11,459 THE EEG OUTSIDE OF THE SKULL TO 4386 03:29:11,459 --> 03:29:14,763 FIGURE OUT WHAT THE RULES ARE. 4387 03:29:14,763 --> 03:29:16,498 AND MAYBE THE RULES ARE 4388 03:29:16,498 --> 03:29:19,634 RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND 4389 03:29:19,634 --> 03:29:20,969 THEN WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S 4390 03:29:20,969 --> 03:29:21,736 GOING ON OUTSIDE THE SKULL 4391 03:29:21,736 --> 03:29:31,880 BETTER. 4392 03:29:34,482 --> 03:29:40,522 >> AND MY LAB USE TMS fMRI AND 4393 03:29:40,522 --> 03:29:43,892 THERE'S INTRACRANIAL EEG FOR 4394 03:29:43,892 --> 03:29:44,726 TEMPORAL SPECIFICITY. 4395 03:29:44,726 --> 03:29:47,629 WHAT COULD BE USED AT SCALE AND 4396 03:29:47,629 --> 03:29:53,334 WHAT ARE PRACTICAL CHALLENGES TO 4397 03:29:53,334 --> 03:29:58,206 USING THEM AT SCALE? 4398 03:29:58,206 --> 03:30:00,809 AND SIMULTANEOUS THE STUDY AND 4399 03:30:00,809 --> 03:30:04,579 MY MIND IS EXPLODING AT THE 4400 03:30:04,579 --> 03:30:07,482 METHODS AND WOULD BE GREAT WHICH 4401 03:30:07,482 --> 03:30:09,017 METHODS YOU USE AND HOW SPECIFIC 4402 03:30:09,017 --> 03:30:11,319 THEY ARE THAT IN TERMS OF THE 4403 03:30:11,319 --> 03:30:13,288 SPATIAL AND TEMPORAL EFFECTS YOU 4404 03:30:13,288 --> 03:30:14,456 CAN MEASURE ON THE BRAIN. 4405 03:30:14,456 --> 03:30:16,724 HOW SPECIFIC CAN YOU BE AND HOW 4406 03:30:16,724 --> 03:30:17,392 PRACTICAL IS IT TO SCALE THOSE 4407 03:30:17,392 --> 03:30:27,569 THINGS UP. 4408 03:30:28,136 --> 03:30:30,572 >> YOU TALKED ABOUT TEMPORAL AND 4409 03:30:30,572 --> 03:30:32,740 SPATIAL RESOLUTIONS. 4410 03:30:32,740 --> 03:30:36,211 SO ALSO WITH COMBINING WITH EMD 4411 03:30:36,211 --> 03:30:38,079 WE CAN ALSO GO INTO SYSTEMS 4412 03:30:38,079 --> 03:30:43,952 SPECIFIC THINGS. 4413 03:30:43,952 --> 03:30:48,656 TMS ACTIVATES DIFFERENT NEU 4414 03:30:48,656 --> 03:30:53,127 NEUROTRANSMITTER AND THE 4415 03:30:53,127 --> 03:30:55,730 EXCITATORY SYSTEMS AND COMBINING 4416 03:30:55,730 --> 03:30:56,498 TMS WITH EEG WE CAN 4417 03:30:56,498 --> 03:31:06,975 DIFFERENTIATE THOSE SYSTEMS. 4418 03:31:08,276 --> 03:31:10,278 WE CAN DO SOME SYSTEMS SPECIFIC 4419 03:31:10,278 --> 03:31:11,513 THINGS WHEN WE COMBINE WITH THE 4420 03:31:11,513 --> 03:31:18,520 METHODS. 4421 03:31:18,520 --> 03:31:22,023 >> WHAT IS THE METHOD LEVEL 4422 03:31:22,023 --> 03:31:22,323 SPECIFICITY? 4423 03:31:22,323 --> 03:31:26,861 A THEME THAT CAME UP IS DTI 4424 03:31:26,861 --> 03:31:30,298 CONNECTIVITY PREDICT THE 4425 03:31:30,298 --> 03:31:30,865 SIMULATION. 4426 03:31:30,865 --> 03:31:34,936 CAN YOU GET AT THAT IN TERMS OF 4427 03:31:34,936 --> 03:31:36,771 THE CHALLENGES WITH USING EEG OR 4428 03:31:36,771 --> 03:31:43,344 OTHER METHODS TO GET AT THAT? 4429 03:31:43,344 --> 03:31:44,746 >> THERE ARE SOME KNOWLEDGE OF 4430 03:31:44,746 --> 03:31:46,915 PREVIOUS STUDIES HAVE SHOWN LIKE 4431 03:31:46,915 --> 03:31:48,683 THE EARLY RESPONSES WOULD BE 4432 03:31:48,683 --> 03:31:49,784 MORE LOCAL AND THE LATER 4433 03:31:49,784 --> 03:31:57,425 RESPONSES IS MORE GLOBAL. 4434 03:31:57,425 --> 03:31:58,159 THAT'S SOMETHING WE DON'T FULLY 4435 03:31:58,159 --> 03:32:03,097 UNDERSTAND. 4436 03:32:03,097 --> 03:32:04,132 DAMIEN? 4437 03:32:04,132 --> 03:32:09,504 >> I'M BIASSED ON THIS 4438 03:32:09,504 --> 03:32:11,673 PARTICULAR QUESTION OBVIOUSLY 4439 03:32:11,673 --> 03:32:18,313 BUT AND THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO 4440 03:32:18,313 --> 03:32:25,420 DO ANY NEURAL MODULATION STUDY 4441 03:32:25,420 --> 03:32:29,624 UNLESS YOU GET PRECISION 4442 03:32:29,624 --> 03:32:34,729 FUNCTION AND WE'RE SEEING AND 4443 03:32:34,729 --> 03:32:35,663 THERE'S SPATIAL FESTIVITY FOR 4444 03:32:35,663 --> 03:32:44,005 THE TARGETS AND APPLICATION AND 4445 03:32:44,005 --> 03:32:45,440 INFORMED BY PRECISION DATA 4446 03:32:45,440 --> 03:32:46,341 METHOD. 4447 03:32:46,341 --> 03:32:49,510 IT DEPENDS ON THE SPECIFICS THE 4448 03:32:49,510 --> 03:32:51,079 QUESTION. 4449 03:32:51,079 --> 03:32:52,413 NON-INVASIVE STIMULATION COMES 4450 03:32:52,413 --> 03:33:02,457 IN SEVERAL FORMS. 4451 03:33:02,457 --> 03:33:05,026 THERE'S OTHER ADVANCED IMAGING 4452 03:33:05,026 --> 03:33:09,497 TECHNIQUE AND IMAGING AND OTHERS 4453 03:33:09,497 --> 03:33:14,435 ARE IMPORTANT BUT THAT'S THE 4454 03:33:14,435 --> 03:33:17,672 SPATIAL PART THAT'S IMPORTANT 4455 03:33:17,672 --> 03:33:20,408 AND COMBINING THAT WITH THE 4456 03:33:20,408 --> 03:33:23,978 TEMPORAL INFORMATION WHERE YOU 4457 03:33:23,978 --> 03:33:26,114 CAN ESSENTIALLY TIME THE 4458 03:33:26,114 --> 03:33:26,848 STIMULATION TO SPECIFIC POINTS 4459 03:33:26,848 --> 03:33:30,418 AND LAYERS OF ACTIVITY I THINK 4460 03:33:30,418 --> 03:33:35,657 IS COMBINED HAS A HIGH POTENTIAL 4461 03:33:35,657 --> 03:33:36,791 TO REALLY ADVANCE AT THE 4462 03:33:36,791 --> 03:33:37,392 TREATMENT LEVEL AMONGST OTHER 4463 03:33:37,392 --> 03:33:41,095 THINGS. 4464 03:33:41,095 --> 03:33:44,232 AND I'LL LEAVE IT TO MY EXPERT 4465 03:33:44,232 --> 03:33:46,801 FRIENDS TO EXPLAIN THE TEMPORAL 4466 03:33:46,801 --> 03:33:47,535 PIECE. 4467 03:33:47,535 --> 03:33:49,303 >> COREY, YOU'VE HAD YOUR HAND 4468 03:33:49,303 --> 03:33:49,470 UP. 4469 03:33:49,470 --> 03:33:50,738 >> GREAT QUESTION. 4470 03:33:50,738 --> 03:33:54,308 I THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT 4471 03:33:54,308 --> 03:33:59,781 THOSE TOOLS THAT SCALE ARE 4472 03:33:59,781 --> 03:34:00,815 MECHANISTICALLY MORE AMBIGUOUS 4473 03:34:00,815 --> 03:34:02,817 THAN THOSE THAT DON'T AND YOU 4474 03:34:02,817 --> 03:34:04,752 USUALLY HAVE POORER SPATIAL OR 4475 03:34:04,752 --> 03:34:06,821 TEMPORAL RESOLUTION. 4476 03:34:06,821 --> 03:34:10,124 WE HAVE INVASIVE RECORD WITH 4477 03:34:10,124 --> 03:34:11,526 NICE SPATIAL AND TEMPORAL 4478 03:34:11,526 --> 03:34:12,927 RECORDING BUT DON'T SCALE TO 4479 03:34:12,927 --> 03:34:13,494 MANY POPULATIONS OR TO MANY 4480 03:34:13,494 --> 03:34:14,729 PEOPLE. 4481 03:34:14,729 --> 03:34:20,001 I THINK THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO 4482 03:34:20,001 --> 03:34:27,675 USE INVASIVE RECORDINGS LIKE TMS 4483 03:34:27,675 --> 03:34:29,377 EEG AND fMRI TO BETTER 4484 03:34:29,377 --> 03:34:30,445 UNDERSTAND THE TOOLS THAT SCALE 4485 03:34:30,445 --> 03:34:30,812 BETTER. 4486 03:34:30,812 --> 03:34:32,447 IN DOING SO WE CAN THEN MOVE TO 4487 03:34:32,447 --> 03:34:39,487 THAT LEVEL. 4488 03:34:39,487 --> 03:34:41,556 BEFORE THAT WE NEED TO LEARN A 4489 03:34:41,556 --> 03:34:44,192 LOT AND THE QUESTION OF fMRI 4490 03:34:44,192 --> 03:34:46,260 VERSUS EEG, I'M BIASSED. 4491 03:34:46,260 --> 03:34:47,361 I THINK THE TEMPORAL RESOLUTION 4492 03:34:47,361 --> 03:34:50,198 IS CRITICAL BUT OF COURSE THE 4493 03:34:50,198 --> 03:34:51,032 SPATIAL RESOLUTION IS AS WELL. 4494 03:34:51,032 --> 03:34:53,701 PAIRING THE NON-INVASIVE TOOLS 4495 03:34:53,701 --> 03:34:55,803 WE HAVE TOGETHER IS ABSOLUTELY 4496 03:34:55,803 --> 03:34:58,406 CRITICAL. 4497 03:34:58,406 --> 03:34:59,907 >> I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING 4498 03:34:59,907 --> 03:35:02,143 THAT MIGHT COME UP LATER ON BUT 4499 03:35:02,143 --> 03:35:03,945 THAT SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT PRESENT 4500 03:35:03,945 --> 03:35:06,247 ITSELF AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR 4501 03:35:06,247 --> 03:35:08,116 COORDINATED EFFORTS IN TERM OF 4502 03:35:08,116 --> 03:35:10,451 DIFFERENT LABS THAT FOCUS ON 4503 03:35:10,451 --> 03:35:14,055 DIFFERENT PIECES OF THAT PUZZLE 4504 03:35:14,055 --> 03:35:17,291 USING DIFFERENT METHODS. 4505 03:35:17,291 --> 03:35:19,694 >> TO DO THESE TECHNICAL 4506 03:35:19,694 --> 03:35:22,163 MODALITIES WELL WHETHER IT'S 4507 03:35:22,163 --> 03:35:24,398 TMS, EEG OR fMRI, IT TAKES A LOT 4508 03:35:24,398 --> 03:35:27,335 OF TIME AND EFFORT AND IS HARD 4509 03:35:27,335 --> 03:35:29,704 TO SCALE EVEN ACROSS LABS THAT 4510 03:35:29,704 --> 03:35:32,006 DO IT WELL. 4511 03:35:32,006 --> 03:35:35,042 SO THESE COORDINATED EFFORTS 4512 03:35:35,042 --> 03:35:36,878 COLLABORATIONS ACROSS LABS WHO 4513 03:35:36,878 --> 03:35:37,445 HAVE THESE EXPERTISE IS 4514 03:35:37,445 --> 03:35:46,821 DEFINITELY CRITICAL. 4515 03:35:46,821 --> 03:35:48,990 >> ASK I THINK DAMIEN JUST SAID 4516 03:35:48,990 --> 03:35:51,225 SOMETHING WE ALWAYS DO WHICH IS 4517 03:35:51,225 --> 03:35:54,328 YOU HAVE TO HAVE TOTAL CONTROL 4518 03:35:54,328 --> 03:35:55,897 OVER YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL TASK. 4519 03:35:55,897 --> 03:35:57,665 YOU HAVE TO KNOW ALL ABOUT IT 4520 03:35:57,665 --> 03:35:58,900 BEFORE YOU EVER BRING ANYBODY 4521 03:35:58,900 --> 03:36:01,936 INTO A SCANNER OR GIVE THEM TMS. 4522 03:36:01,936 --> 03:36:02,970 THAT'S JUST SOMETHING I DON'T 4523 03:36:02,970 --> 03:36:05,573 THINK IS DONE WELL ENOUGH AND 4524 03:36:05,573 --> 03:36:06,841 I'M AN EXPERIMENTAL PSYCHOLOGIST 4525 03:36:06,841 --> 03:36:10,745 AND MAY BE BIASSED BUT IT'S NOT 4526 03:36:10,745 --> 03:36:12,146 DONE WELL ENOUGH THAT YOU HAVE 4527 03:36:12,146 --> 03:36:13,781 TO HAVE CONTROL OVER YOUR TASK 4528 03:36:13,781 --> 03:36:15,917 AND BEHAVIOR BEFORE YOU EVER DO 4529 03:36:15,917 --> 03:36:16,384 ANYTHING ELSE. 4530 03:36:16,384 --> 03:36:21,022 BUT I ALSO WANTED TO AGREE WITH 4531 03:36:21,022 --> 03:36:25,226 JOEL ABOUT I WOULD LOVE SCALING 4532 03:36:25,226 --> 03:36:26,894 UP TMS fMRI. 4533 03:36:26,894 --> 03:36:30,765 BUT WE'RE JUST STARTING A 4534 03:36:30,765 --> 03:36:32,033 REAL-TIME NEURAL FEEDBACK TMS 4535 03:36:32,033 --> 03:36:34,368 EXPERIMENT AND TAKING US A YEAR 4536 03:36:34,368 --> 03:36:38,606 AND A HALF TO GET IT ALL SET UP. 4537 03:36:38,606 --> 03:36:42,476 AND THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING 4538 03:36:42,476 --> 03:36:42,677 PARTS. 4539 03:36:42,677 --> 03:36:47,148 WE'RE ALSO USING ARE HIGHER 4540 03:36:47,148 --> 03:36:48,583 NUMBER OF CHANNELS FROM THE 4541 03:36:48,583 --> 03:36:51,118 GROUP THAT MAY MAKE IT MORE 4542 03:36:51,118 --> 03:36:51,385 DIFFICULT. 4543 03:36:51,385 --> 03:36:55,656 THAT'S WHAT COULD BE SCALED UP 4544 03:36:55,656 --> 03:36:59,160 AND ONE LAST THING WHICH IS 4545 03:36:59,160 --> 03:37:01,896 USING THIS WITH fMRI 4546 03:37:01,896 --> 03:37:05,433 CONCURRENTLY AND EEG ARE MY 4547 03:37:05,433 --> 03:37:06,868 DREAM. 4548 03:37:06,868 --> 03:37:14,909 I WORKED WITH PAUL SHIDA AT 4549 03:37:14,909 --> 03:37:16,878 COLUMBIA JUST DOING OBJECT 4550 03:37:16,878 --> 03:37:22,450 DISCRIMINATION WITH NOISE ADDED 4551 03:37:22,450 --> 03:37:24,452 AND THERE'S GREAT PSYCHO 4552 03:37:24,452 --> 03:37:27,788 PHYSIOLOGY AND DID EEG AND FOUND 4553 03:37:27,788 --> 03:37:33,094 COMPONENTS AND THE RIGHT TIMING 4554 03:37:33,094 --> 03:37:36,097 TO DO WITH EEG COMPARED TO THE 4555 03:37:36,097 --> 03:37:39,667 COMPONENTS AND WHAT THE 4556 03:37:39,667 --> 03:37:44,305 COMPONENTS WERE DOING AND FOUND 4557 03:37:44,305 --> 03:37:46,908 THREE NETWORKS ASSOCIATED WITH 4558 03:37:46,908 --> 03:37:50,811 THE ABJECT DECISION PROCESS 4559 03:37:50,811 --> 03:37:52,313 FOCUSSED ON THE LATERAL COMPLEX 4560 03:37:52,313 --> 03:37:55,182 AND GAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION WE 4561 03:37:55,182 --> 03:37:57,218 KNEW TO STIMULATE AT A CERTAIN 4562 03:37:57,218 --> 03:37:58,886 TIME AND STIMULATED DIFFERENT 4563 03:37:58,886 --> 03:38:03,090 TIMES AND WHEN WE STIMULATED 4564 03:38:03,090 --> 03:38:06,193 AROUND 200 MIL SECONDS WE WERE 4565 03:38:06,193 --> 03:38:07,662 ABLE TO DISRUPT THAT DECISION 4566 03:38:07,662 --> 03:38:12,033 PROCESS. 4567 03:38:12,033 --> 03:38:15,770 AND USING THE EEG TOGETHER WITH 4568 03:38:15,770 --> 03:38:26,314 THE MRI ALLOWED US TO FOCUS WHAT 4569 03:38:27,715 --> 03:38:28,649 TO DO. 4570 03:38:28,649 --> 03:38:31,986 >> I HOPE WE GENERATE A LAUNDRY 4571 03:38:31,986 --> 03:38:33,988 LIST OF IDEAS WHAT PEOPLE 4572 03:38:33,988 --> 03:38:35,456 PRIORITIZE IN TERMS OF THE 4573 03:38:35,456 --> 03:38:36,824 METHODS LATER ON WE CAN TALK 4574 03:38:36,824 --> 03:38:38,225 ABOUT THE CHALLENGES TO SCALE 4575 03:38:38,225 --> 03:38:41,329 THEM UP AND DOING THEM ACROSS 4576 03:38:41,329 --> 03:38:47,568 SITES OR IN A LARGER WAY. 4577 03:38:47,568 --> 03:38:47,835 ALEX. 4578 03:38:47,835 --> 03:38:50,371 >> I THINK I WANT TO RESPOND AT 4579 03:38:50,371 --> 03:38:56,143 THE INTERSECTION OF DAMIEN AND 4580 03:38:56,143 --> 03:38:59,246 EARL BECAUSE WE POINTED OUT ALL 4581 03:38:59,246 --> 03:39:01,749 LEVELS OF SPECIFICITY NEED TO BE 4582 03:39:01,749 --> 03:39:01,983 MAPPED. 4583 03:39:01,983 --> 03:39:04,352 AT THE SAME TIME, DAMIEN IS 4584 03:39:04,352 --> 03:39:09,824 RIGHT THAT IF YOU DON'T IMAGE 4585 03:39:09,824 --> 03:39:12,259 EVERYBODY WITH THE SAME PROTOCOL 4586 03:39:12,259 --> 03:39:13,060 YOU'RE DROPPING DATA ON THE 4587 03:39:13,060 --> 03:39:13,260 FLOOR. 4588 03:39:13,260 --> 03:39:22,103 I WANTED TO KEEP COMING BACK TO 4589 03:39:22,103 --> 03:39:23,838 THE OVERLAP OF LEVELS OF 4590 03:39:23,838 --> 03:39:31,645 ANALYSIS AND YOU MAP THE 4591 03:39:31,645 --> 03:39:39,053 FUNCTIONAL NETWORK AND YOU COULD 4592 03:39:39,053 --> 03:39:44,325 MAP THE WEAR BY PRECISION 4593 03:39:44,325 --> 03:39:45,159 MAPPING AND THE OSCILLATION EARL 4594 03:39:45,159 --> 03:39:48,129 WAS TALKING ABOUT AND THOSE 4595 03:39:48,129 --> 03:39:49,363 TECHNIQUES CAN BE COMBINED TO 4596 03:39:49,363 --> 03:39:50,197 TEACH US MORE THAN ANY 4597 03:39:50,197 --> 03:39:51,065 INDIVIDUAL ONE AND THAT'S AGAIN 4598 03:39:51,065 --> 03:39:54,835 THE SAME THING IF YOU CAN 4599 03:39:54,835 --> 03:39:55,669 PROVIDE INVASIVE AND 4600 03:39:55,669 --> 03:39:56,270 NON-INVASIVE TOGETHER YOU'LL 4601 03:39:56,270 --> 03:40:03,611 LEARN MORE. 4602 03:40:03,611 --> 03:40:04,912 >> YOUR NAME IS TOO MUCH LIKE 4603 03:40:04,912 --> 03:40:13,621 ALEX SO I'M GOING TO CALL YOU 4604 03:40:13,621 --> 03:40:14,889 WIDGE FROM NOW ON. 4605 03:40:14,889 --> 03:40:16,957 >> WE'RE BOTH FROM MINNESOTA. 4606 03:40:16,957 --> 03:40:23,531 AND HIGHLIGHTING THE TEMPORAL 4607 03:40:23,531 --> 03:40:23,864 ASPECT. 4608 03:40:23,864 --> 03:40:30,104 I THINK WE LEARN SO MUCH AND IT 4609 03:40:30,104 --> 03:40:32,706 DEPENDS ON THE STATE OF THE 4610 03:40:32,706 --> 03:40:36,243 MOTOR CORTEX SO IF YOU ALIGN 4611 03:40:36,243 --> 03:40:37,745 STIMULATION AT DIFFERENT PHASES 4612 03:40:37,745 --> 03:40:39,080 YOU GET DIFFERENT RESPONSES 4613 03:40:39,080 --> 03:40:42,183 SHOWN AT SIMILAR TIMES AND 4614 03:40:42,183 --> 03:40:46,720 PEOPLE ARE NOW REALIZING FOR 4615 03:40:46,720 --> 03:40:49,423 OTHER BRAIN AREAS THE PREFRONTAL 4616 03:40:49,423 --> 03:40:52,626 BETA THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO 4617 03:40:52,626 --> 03:40:59,967 DO THOSE REAL TIME STIMULATION 4618 03:40:59,967 --> 03:41:01,102 AND TMS EEG. 4619 03:41:01,102 --> 03:41:11,612 IT'S A BIG OPPORTUNITY THERE. 4620 03:41:16,984 --> 03:41:19,553 >> FOR EVERYONE ON THE CALL I 4621 03:41:19,553 --> 03:41:21,188 WANT TO BRING UP SOMETHING IN 4622 03:41:21,188 --> 03:41:24,492 THE CHAT AND TO THE POINT ABOUT 4623 03:41:24,492 --> 03:41:26,460 SCALABILITY AND MECHANISTIC. 4624 03:41:26,460 --> 03:41:30,965 AND A NICE FOLLOW-UP POINT IN 4625 03:41:30,965 --> 03:41:35,569 THE CHAT THAT SAYS UNDERSTANDING 4626 03:41:35,569 --> 03:41:38,672 ARE TWO DISTINCT AND PARALLEL 4627 03:41:38,672 --> 03:41:40,541 APPROACH AND APPROACH MAY BE 4628 03:41:40,541 --> 03:41:42,176 SCALED BUT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 4629 03:41:42,176 --> 03:41:43,744 NEAT FOR EARLY STAGE MECHANISTIC 4630 03:41:43,744 --> 03:41:53,621 QUESTIONS. 4631 03:41:53,621 --> 03:41:54,321 >> THANK YOU. 4632 03:41:54,321 --> 03:42:03,397 I ACTUALLY CAN'T SEE THE CHAT. 4633 03:42:03,397 --> 03:42:05,266 >> GREAT. 4634 03:42:05,266 --> 03:42:07,601 IN THE INTEREST OF TIME LET'S -- 4635 03:42:07,601 --> 03:42:10,437 OKAY, HERE WE GO. 4636 03:42:10,437 --> 03:42:12,373 I ACCIDENTALLY CLICKED THE 4637 03:42:12,373 --> 03:42:16,177 ADVANCE BUTTON ANYWAY. 4638 03:42:16,177 --> 03:42:17,278 IN TERMS OF NON-INVASIVE 4639 03:42:17,278 --> 03:42:18,913 STIMULATION IT WOULD BE GOOD TO 4640 03:42:18,913 --> 03:42:20,080 TALK ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL 4641 03:42:20,080 --> 03:42:22,183 DIFFERENCES AND QUESTION AND 4642 03:42:22,183 --> 03:42:24,318 STRATEGIES FOR HOW DO YOU ASSESS 4643 03:42:24,318 --> 03:42:28,189 INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES IN A WAY 4644 03:42:28,189 --> 03:42:30,591 THAT I'M COMING FROM THE TMS 4645 03:42:30,591 --> 03:42:33,327 PERSPECTIVE WHERE YOU MIGHT WANT 4646 03:42:33,327 --> 03:42:35,930 TO MEASURE EACH PERSON'S MVP TO 4647 03:42:35,930 --> 03:42:38,032 MAKE SURE YOU'RE CALIBRATING 4648 03:42:38,032 --> 03:42:44,705 YOUR SYSTEM SIMILARLIY AND TAKE 4649 03:42:44,705 --> 03:42:46,740 THAT MEASURE TO ACCOUNT IN YOUR 4650 03:42:46,740 --> 03:42:54,582 STUDY AND MAY BE THING FOR TRANS 4651 03:42:54,582 --> 03:42:56,183 ELECTRICAL STIMULATION AND WAYS 4652 03:42:56,183 --> 03:42:58,519 TO LOOK AT DIFFERENCES AND HOW 4653 03:42:58,519 --> 03:42:59,887 EACH PERSON RESPONDS TO 4654 03:42:59,887 --> 03:43:01,055 STIMULATION AND HOW DO YOU 4655 03:43:01,055 --> 03:43:04,225 ACCOUNT FOR EACH PERSON'S STATE 4656 03:43:04,225 --> 03:43:05,426 AND, YEAH. 4657 03:43:05,426 --> 03:43:10,531 I THINK COREY, YOU HAD YOUR HAND 4658 03:43:10,531 --> 03:43:11,098 UP ALREADY. 4659 03:43:11,098 --> 03:43:14,835 >> I'M REFRAME IT. 4660 03:43:14,835 --> 03:43:17,504 I THINK ONE QUESTION IS HOW DO 4661 03:43:17,504 --> 03:43:19,974 WE DETERMINE IF THESE ARE ACTUAL 4662 03:43:19,974 --> 03:43:22,409 INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES? 4663 03:43:22,409 --> 03:43:23,911 WE ENSURE OUR DATA QUALITY IS 4664 03:43:23,911 --> 03:43:25,813 SUCH THAT WE CAN ANSWER THAT 4665 03:43:25,813 --> 03:43:27,147 QUESTION. 4666 03:43:27,147 --> 03:43:31,185 SO WES HAD A GREAT COMMENT 4667 03:43:31,185 --> 03:43:34,321 ASSESSING PARTICIPANTS WOULD BE 4668 03:43:34,321 --> 03:43:35,923 GOOD FOR SOURCING 4669 03:43:35,923 --> 03:43:36,824 DIFFERENTIATING VARIATION AND 4670 03:43:36,824 --> 03:43:41,362 THE STATE IS CRITICAL LIKE ALEX 4671 03:43:41,362 --> 03:43:43,497 MENTIONED AND GETTING AN MEP 4672 03:43:43,497 --> 03:43:44,865 FROM FIVE MINUTES TO THE NEXT 4673 03:43:44,865 --> 03:43:46,433 DEPENDING ON ALERTNESS AND A 4674 03:43:46,433 --> 03:43:49,770 MILLION OTHER THINGS IN AN 4675 03:43:49,770 --> 03:43:50,070 INDIVIDUAL. 4676 03:43:50,070 --> 03:43:52,606 AND THE MEASUREMENT TOOL. 4677 03:43:52,606 --> 03:43:55,376 WE USE TMS EEG AND THE SIGNAL TO 4678 03:43:55,376 --> 03:43:56,710 NOISE IS PRETTY LOW. 4679 03:43:56,710 --> 03:43:59,213 HOW DO WE BOOST THAT TO GET THE 4680 03:43:59,213 --> 03:44:00,314 SAME MEASUREMENT EVERY SINGLE 4681 03:44:00,314 --> 03:44:03,417 TIME TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THE 4682 03:44:03,417 --> 03:44:03,751 QUESTIONS? 4683 03:44:03,751 --> 03:44:07,421 THERE'S SOURCES OF VARIABILITY 4684 03:44:07,421 --> 03:44:08,155 NOT NECESSARILY INDIVIDUAL 4685 03:44:08,155 --> 03:44:10,591 VARIABILITY I THINK WE NEED TO 4686 03:44:10,591 --> 03:44:11,158 DO BETTER AT ANSWERING THAT 4687 03:44:11,158 --> 03:44:17,765 QUESTION. 4688 03:44:17,765 --> 03:44:24,171 >> ALEX. 4689 03:44:24,171 --> 03:44:27,308 >> THIS GETS TO THE PROBLEM OF 4690 03:44:27,308 --> 03:44:35,449 THE CONTROLS AND HOW TO ENSURE 4691 03:44:35,449 --> 03:44:40,754 AND FOR TMS WE HAVE THE MEASURE 4692 03:44:40,754 --> 03:44:48,128 OF THRESHOLD FROM PROMOTER 4693 03:44:48,128 --> 03:44:58,605 CIRCUITS AND YOU CAP USE A 4694 03:44:59,673 --> 03:45:04,345 SIMULATION FOR EACH PARTICIPANT 4695 03:45:04,345 --> 03:45:06,146 AND CAN DELIVER THOSE AND THEY 4696 03:45:06,146 --> 03:45:07,648 VARY A LOT AND THIS IS SOMETHING 4697 03:45:07,648 --> 03:45:10,984 THE FIELD HAS NOT REALLY FOUND 4698 03:45:10,984 --> 03:45:13,821 GREAT TOOLS TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT 4699 03:45:13,821 --> 03:45:23,697 AND SOME VARIABILITY IS ON THE 4700 03:45:23,697 --> 03:45:27,368 MODELS OUT ABOUT NOT PERFECT AND 4701 03:45:27,368 --> 03:45:30,604 MEASURING MAY BE A WAY TO ENSURE 4702 03:45:30,604 --> 03:45:33,273 MORE HARMONIZATION BASED ON JUST 4703 03:45:33,273 --> 03:45:33,907 THE DELIVERED DOSE OF BRAIN 4704 03:45:33,907 --> 03:45:44,118 SIMULATION. 4705 03:45:44,852 --> 03:45:45,853 >> HAVE THERE BASKETBALL KEY 4706 03:45:45,853 --> 03:45:48,522 VARIABLES ACROSS SITES TO MAKE 4707 03:45:48,522 --> 03:45:50,124 SURE YOU'RE DOING THINGS IN A 4708 03:45:50,124 --> 03:45:55,629 STANDARDIZED WAY IN TERMS OF 4709 03:45:55,629 --> 03:45:57,865 APPLICATIONS? 4710 03:45:57,865 --> 03:45:59,133 AND LOOKING AT INDIVIDUAL 4711 03:45:59,133 --> 03:46:00,701 DIFFERENCES AND THE VARIATION 4712 03:46:00,701 --> 03:46:11,111 ISN'T JUST DUE TO NOISE. 4713 03:46:16,550 --> 03:46:26,226 >> MAYBE HARMONIZE IT SO YOU CAN 4714 03:46:26,226 --> 03:46:27,828 HAVE SIMULATION AND MEASURE THAT 4715 03:46:27,828 --> 03:46:33,867 AND DO HARMONIZATION BASED ON 4716 03:46:33,867 --> 03:46:44,344 THE DELIVERY OF BRAIN STATE. 4717 03:46:49,850 --> 03:46:51,118 >> DOSING AND TARGETING HAVE 4718 03:46:51,118 --> 03:46:53,420 BEEN WORKED ON AND WE ALWAYS DO 4719 03:46:53,420 --> 03:46:54,455 A MOTOR THRESHOLD. 4720 03:46:54,455 --> 03:46:57,891 THERE'S ARGUMENTS ABOUT THAT 4721 03:46:57,891 --> 03:47:03,197 ONCE YOU LEAVE THE MOTOR CORTEX 4722 03:47:03,197 --> 03:47:06,733 AND THERE'S WAYS TO GET THE ACT 4723 03:47:06,733 --> 03:47:08,335 DOSE AND USING THE MODELLING AND 4724 03:47:08,335 --> 03:47:09,503 A LOT OF WORK IS BEING DONE WITH 4725 03:47:09,503 --> 03:47:11,738 THAT AND PROBABLY MORE SHOULD BE 4726 03:47:11,738 --> 03:47:14,241 DONE SO WE HAVE SOME 4727 03:47:14,241 --> 03:47:14,541 CONCLUSIONS. 4728 03:47:14,541 --> 03:47:18,679 AND RELATED TO THAT IS TARGETING 4729 03:47:18,679 --> 03:47:22,783 WHERE EVERYBODY OBVIOUSLY VARIES 4730 03:47:22,783 --> 03:47:25,719 AND TAR GETTING INDIVIDUALIZED 4731 03:47:25,719 --> 03:47:34,194 fMRI AND SO YOU WANT TO FOR 4732 03:47:34,194 --> 03:47:36,063 INSTANCE FROM 2009 COMPARE 4733 03:47:36,063 --> 03:47:37,364 ACROSS VARIOUS METHODS AND FOUND 4734 03:47:37,364 --> 03:47:39,433 THAT TO BE THE BEST AND WE ALL 4735 03:47:39,433 --> 03:47:41,735 THOUGHT IT WOULD IN. 4736 03:47:41,735 --> 03:47:44,204 THE PLACE BEING STIMULATED IS 4737 03:47:44,204 --> 03:47:46,139 DIFFERENT IN PEOPLE AND HOW FAR 4738 03:47:46,139 --> 03:47:48,108 AFIELD CAN YOU GO AND HOW BIG DO 4739 03:47:48,108 --> 03:47:49,977 I MAKE THE MASK? 4740 03:47:49,977 --> 03:47:52,312 WHAT'S THE ACTUAL FUNCTIONAL 4741 03:47:52,312 --> 03:47:53,714 AREA INVOLVED. 4742 03:47:53,714 --> 03:47:56,550 YOU DON'T WANT TO LEAVE TO BE 4743 03:47:56,550 --> 03:47:59,853 ABLE TO STILL STIMULATE THE SAME 4744 03:47:59,853 --> 03:48:01,788 NETWORK BUT ACCOUNT FOR 4745 03:48:01,788 --> 03:48:04,458 VARIABILITY AND ANATOMY AND WITH 4746 03:48:04,458 --> 03:48:05,392 ELECTRICAL STIMULATION I DON'T 4747 03:48:05,392 --> 03:48:08,028 KNOW WHAT TO DO BECAUSE YOU 4748 03:48:08,028 --> 03:48:10,531 STICK ELECTRODES ON THE HEAD AND 4749 03:48:10,531 --> 03:48:12,199 JUST SEE IN DIFFERENT PEOPLE HOW 4750 03:48:12,199 --> 03:48:13,901 IT CREATES A DIFFERENT SET OF 4751 03:48:13,901 --> 03:48:16,036 CIRCUMSTANCES BASED ON THEIR 4752 03:48:16,036 --> 03:48:18,639 ANATOMY IN THEIR BRAIN AND WHERE 4753 03:48:18,639 --> 03:48:19,640 THE ELECTRICITY GOES. 4754 03:48:19,640 --> 03:48:25,612 THAT HAS TO BE WORKED OUT TOO 4755 03:48:25,612 --> 03:48:26,713 FOR ELECTRICAL STIMULATION TO BE 4756 03:48:26,713 --> 03:48:27,748 A MATURE SCIENCE. 4757 03:48:27,748 --> 03:48:30,784 >> LATER WE CAN TALK WHETHER 4758 03:48:30,784 --> 03:48:32,586 THERE ARE AVAILABLE PARAMETERS 4759 03:48:32,586 --> 03:48:36,557 AND METHODS FOR EASE OF EASILY 4760 03:48:36,557 --> 03:48:37,558 PULLING OUT THE DATA TO 4761 03:48:37,558 --> 03:48:48,035 AGGREGATE THAT ACROSS SITES. 4762 03:48:53,307 --> 03:48:55,542 >> THINKING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL 4763 03:48:55,542 --> 03:48:59,479 DIFFERENCES -- SO IN GENETICS 4764 03:48:59,479 --> 03:49:00,314 THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT 4765 03:49:00,314 --> 03:49:00,948 RETURNING CLINICALLY RELEVANT 4766 03:49:00,948 --> 03:49:06,153 RESULTS. 4767 03:49:06,153 --> 03:49:11,525 IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS PART 4768 03:49:11,525 --> 03:49:22,202 OF THE NEURO EDTHICS DEBATE IN 4769 03:49:25,606 --> 03:49:26,440 THIS SPACE. 4770 03:49:26,440 --> 03:49:27,074 I GUESS NOT. 4771 03:49:27,074 --> 03:49:30,544 BUT JUST TO BRING THAT UP THAT 4772 03:49:30,544 --> 03:49:32,646 HEY, YOU MAY GET TO A POINT 4773 03:49:32,646 --> 03:49:35,282 WHERE YOU ARE GENERATING 4774 03:49:35,282 --> 03:49:37,417 CLINICALLY RELEVANT INFORMATION 4775 03:49:37,417 --> 03:49:39,353 IN THE RESEARCH AND IT'S 4776 03:49:39,353 --> 03:49:41,121 IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER WHAT KIND 4777 03:49:41,121 --> 03:49:43,724 OF RESPONSIBILITIES WE MAY HAVE 4778 03:49:43,724 --> 03:49:45,258 TO RETURN SOME OF THAT 4779 03:49:45,258 --> 03:49:46,960 INFORMATION I THINK COULD BE 4780 03:49:46,960 --> 03:49:47,527 CLINICALLY USEFUL. 4781 03:49:47,527 --> 03:49:50,764 >> IT'S TRUE. 4782 03:49:50,764 --> 03:49:55,335 I THINK THE NON-INVASIVE 4783 03:49:55,335 --> 03:49:57,838 STIMULA 4784 03:49:57,838 --> 03:50:00,340 STIMULA 4785 03:50:00,340 --> 03:50:01,742 STIMULATION CAN WORK WITH THE 4786 03:50:01,742 --> 03:50:04,311 DISEASE MODELS AND STATES AND 4787 03:50:04,311 --> 03:50:05,779 POTENTIAL FOR AGGREGATING DATA 4788 03:50:05,779 --> 03:50:07,547 PART OF TMS TREATMENTS FOR 4789 03:50:07,547 --> 03:50:09,950 THINGS LIKE DEPRESSION AND LIKE 4790 03:50:09,950 --> 03:50:11,284 SOMETHING SHAN TALKED ABOUT 4791 03:50:11,284 --> 03:50:11,752 YESTERDAY. 4792 03:50:11,752 --> 03:50:18,225 THE QUESTIONS ARE VERY RELEVANT 4793 03:50:18,225 --> 03:50:21,094 BUT OUR SILENCE SHOWS OUR 4794 03:50:21,094 --> 03:50:31,605 IGNORANCE OF CONSIDERING THEM. 4795 03:50:32,639 --> 03:50:35,308 >> I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THEMES 4796 03:50:35,308 --> 03:50:40,714 COMING HERE AS WE HAVE IN THE 4797 03:50:40,714 --> 03:50:44,751 LAST PANEL WHERE INVESTMENTS IN 4798 03:50:44,751 --> 03:50:46,386 BUILDING BASIC STANDARDS AND 4799 03:50:46,386 --> 03:50:51,825 SHARED ACROSS DIFFERENT UNITS. 4800 03:50:51,825 --> 03:50:53,894 INVESTMENTS IN TYPES OF WHAT CAN 4801 03:50:53,894 --> 03:50:57,030 BE SHARED, EASILY USED BY 4802 03:50:57,030 --> 03:50:59,232 MULTIPLE GROUPS TO INTEGRATE 4803 03:50:59,232 --> 03:51:01,568 THIS INFORMATION ACROSS METHODS 4804 03:51:01,568 --> 03:51:07,941 AND PERSONALIZED METHODS. 4805 03:51:07,941 --> 03:51:11,678 YOU CAN SEE MOST THESE 4806 03:51:11,678 --> 03:51:12,813 ACTIVITIES WERE PEOPLE RUNNING 4807 03:51:12,813 --> 03:51:14,414 THEIR OWN LABORATORIES. 4808 03:51:14,414 --> 03:51:21,154 THAT MAKES IT HARD TO REPLICATE 4809 03:51:21,154 --> 03:51:23,356 AND THE DIFFICULTIES WE'RE 4810 03:51:23,356 --> 03:51:28,462 TALKING ABOUT YOU CAN IMAGINE IF 4811 03:51:28,462 --> 03:51:33,133 THERE ARE SOME INVESTMENTS IN 4812 03:51:33,133 --> 03:51:35,368 TOOLS TO BUILDING STANDARDS SO 4813 03:51:35,368 --> 03:51:36,770 PARAMETERS CAN BE EASILY SHARED 4814 03:51:36,770 --> 03:51:39,406 AND INTEGRATED INTO THEIR 4815 03:51:39,406 --> 03:51:41,875 SYSTEMS THEN IT WILL MAKE THESE 4816 03:51:41,875 --> 03:51:51,752 IDEAS A LOT MORE FLUID. 4817 03:51:51,752 --> 03:51:52,686 >> GREAT POINT. 4818 03:51:52,686 --> 03:51:53,987 >> THE REASON NOBODY ANSWERED IS 4819 03:51:53,987 --> 03:51:58,358 WE HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE 4820 03:51:58,358 --> 03:51:59,159 BASICALLY WE'RE NOT GOOD FLUFF 4821 03:51:59,159 --> 03:52:02,963 AT -- ENOUGH TO CHANGING THE 4822 03:52:02,963 --> 03:52:03,196 BRAIN. 4823 03:52:03,196 --> 03:52:07,334 WE HAVE POTENTIAL BUT WE DON'T 4824 03:52:07,334 --> 03:52:09,736 DO THAT MUCH DAMAGE OR CREATE SO 4825 03:52:09,736 --> 03:52:12,639 MUCH ENHANCEMENT THAT THE 4826 03:52:12,639 --> 03:52:14,040 QUESTIONS HAVE BECOME PERTINENT 4827 03:52:14,040 --> 03:52:14,875 RIGHT AWAY. 4828 03:52:14,875 --> 03:52:18,411 I'M HOPING THEY WILL BE. 4829 03:52:18,411 --> 03:52:22,315 >> TO COMMENT QUICKLY, EVEN IN 4830 03:52:22,315 --> 03:52:24,551 HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS THAT YOU MAY 4831 03:52:24,551 --> 03:52:26,019 BE STUDYING YOU PLAY GET TO A 4832 03:52:26,019 --> 03:52:28,255 POINT WHERE YOU START 4833 03:52:28,255 --> 03:52:34,060 IDENTIFYING CERTAIN SIGNALS THAT 4834 03:52:34,060 --> 03:52:36,496 MAY SUGGEST SOMETHING CLINICALLY 4835 03:52:36,496 --> 03:52:36,763 RELEVANT. 4836 03:52:36,763 --> 03:52:38,832 SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND. 4837 03:52:38,832 --> 03:52:48,975 >> ALEX. 4838 03:52:51,111 --> 03:52:56,516 >> THERE'S DETE SHARING AND DATA 4839 03:52:56,516 --> 03:53:02,422 AGGREGATION BECAUSE OF THE 4840 03:53:02,422 --> 03:53:04,157 STANDARDS DEVELOPED AND THEY 4841 03:53:04,157 --> 03:53:07,928 DEVELOPED FOR THE BRAIN 4842 03:53:07,928 --> 03:53:12,999 STIMULATION FIELD YOU MAKE THE 4843 03:53:12,999 --> 03:53:19,372 EFFORTS FOR THE DEVICE AND 4844 03:53:19,372 --> 03:53:22,409 PLACEMENT AND MAKE THE LARGER 4845 03:53:22,409 --> 03:53:24,311 SCALE EFFORTS MORE FEASIBLE SO 4846 03:53:24,311 --> 03:53:29,349 THAT WOULD BE A NEED FOR THOSE 4847 03:53:29,349 --> 03:53:30,483 SOFTWARE TOOLS AS DAMIEN 4848 03:53:30,483 --> 03:53:30,784 MENTIONED. 4849 03:53:30,784 --> 03:53:33,086 >> HOW BIG OF AN ENDEAVOR THAT 4850 03:53:33,086 --> 03:53:36,389 WOULD BE, ALEX? 4851 03:53:36,389 --> 03:53:38,692 I'M THINKING OF THE VARIATION 4852 03:53:38,692 --> 03:53:44,064 AND DO YOU NEED COIL MODELS FOR 4853 03:53:44,064 --> 03:53:45,532 EVERY TMS SYSTEM? 4854 03:53:45,532 --> 03:53:52,873 THAT'S A GREAT POINT. 4855 03:53:52,873 --> 03:53:56,443 THE INFRASTRUCTURE DOES EXIST 4856 03:53:56,443 --> 03:54:00,080 AND WILL RECORD THOSE AND HAVE 4857 03:54:00,080 --> 03:54:03,984 DIFFERENT COILS TO ESTIMATE THE 4858 03:54:03,984 --> 03:54:06,186 DOSE AND IT'S MORE LIKE BRINGING 4859 03:54:06,186 --> 03:54:07,721 THE EXISTING PARTS TOGETHER AND 4860 03:54:07,721 --> 03:54:13,326 THEN GET BUY IN FROM THE FIELD 4861 03:54:13,326 --> 03:54:14,961 AT LARGE AND EVERYONE NEEDS TO 4862 03:54:14,961 --> 03:54:17,364 PULL THE DATA IN THE FORM AND 4863 03:54:17,364 --> 03:54:23,970 SHARE THAT AND PUSH THAT. 4864 03:54:23,970 --> 03:54:29,409 THERE'S SOFTWARE TOOLS AND THAT 4865 03:54:29,409 --> 03:54:39,519 LINE. 4866 03:54:39,986 --> 03:54:45,625 >> I WANTED TO BRING UP THE 4867 03:54:45,625 --> 03:54:51,531 VARIANCE AND WITH TO THE RIGHT 4868 03:54:51,531 --> 03:54:54,034 DESIGN IS POSSIBLE FOR 4869 03:54:54,034 --> 03:54:58,538 EXPERIMENTAL ERROR AND EXPLAIN 4870 03:54:58,538 --> 03:55:00,473 VARIATION AND DUE TO THE STUDY 4871 03:55:00,473 --> 03:55:03,643 AND WONDERING IF PERHAPS THIS IS 4872 03:55:03,643 --> 03:55:06,646 WHERE A LARGE LONGITUDINAL STUDY 4873 03:55:06,646 --> 03:55:17,190 LIKE ABCD COULD BE HELPFUL AND 4874 03:55:18,658 --> 03:55:23,263 WONDERING IF YOU CAN WEIGH IN? 4875 03:55:23,263 --> 03:55:24,931 >> IT'S ALREADY POSSIBLE AND 4876 03:55:24,931 --> 03:55:28,335 BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN AND 4877 03:55:28,335 --> 03:55:29,703 SOURCES ARE FOR OTHER 4878 03:55:29,703 --> 03:55:30,070 CHARACTERISTICS. 4879 03:55:30,070 --> 03:55:34,941 I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE 4880 03:55:34,941 --> 03:55:40,480 WHAT IS HELPFUL TO KNOW ABOUT 4881 03:55:40,480 --> 03:55:46,820 INDIVIDUAL VARIATION VERSUS 4882 03:55:46,820 --> 03:55:47,821 RANDOM ERRORS AND WONDERING IF 4883 03:55:47,821 --> 03:55:49,556 ANYONE CAN COMMENT ON THAT? 4884 03:55:49,556 --> 03:55:54,995 >> ONE WAY TO COMMENT ON THAT 4885 03:55:54,995 --> 03:55:58,164 FRONT WAS THAT WE'VE BEEN 4886 03:55:58,164 --> 03:56:03,269 LEVERAGING THESE STUDIES WITH 4887 03:56:03,269 --> 03:56:10,410 REGARD TO NEURAL MODULATION. 4888 03:56:10,410 --> 03:56:20,954 IT'S CRITICAL AND THERE WILL BE 4889 03:56:23,056 --> 03:56:24,357 SCENARIOS WHERE GETTING THAT 4890 03:56:24,357 --> 03:56:27,694 TYPE OF DATA IS JUST NOT 4891 03:56:27,694 --> 03:56:37,871 POSSIBLE. 4892 03:56:40,473 --> 03:56:44,778 MAYBE THE NEXT BEST THING IS 4893 03:56:44,778 --> 03:56:46,913 GENER 4894 03:56:46,913 --> 03:56:48,948 GENERATE PROBABILITY AND LEVEL 4895 03:56:48,948 --> 03:56:51,184 OFF THE POPULATION STYLE DATA. 4896 03:56:51,184 --> 03:56:54,421 WE PUBLISHED A FEW MONTHS AGO A 4897 03:56:54,421 --> 03:56:55,855 PAPER IN NATURE AND NEUROSCIENCE 4898 03:56:55,855 --> 03:57:02,162 THAT BEGAN TO EXPLORE THE IDEA 4899 03:57:02,162 --> 03:57:03,997 OF PROVIDING WHAT DO WE DO WE 4900 03:57:03,997 --> 03:57:06,366 DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION TO DO 4901 03:57:06,366 --> 03:57:08,068 THE PERSONALIZED TARGETING. 4902 03:57:08,068 --> 03:57:09,669 DO YOU GO BIND OR THE NEXT THING 4903 03:57:09,669 --> 03:57:10,937 IS BASED ON POPULATION 4904 03:57:10,937 --> 03:57:21,147 STATISTICS? 4905 03:57:35,228 --> 03:57:36,796 >> COREY. 4906 03:57:36,796 --> 03:57:38,731 >> ONE ON THE DATA SHARING 4907 03:57:38,731 --> 03:57:43,203 EFFORTS WOULD BE INTERESTING TO 4908 03:57:43,203 --> 03:57:43,470 IMPLEMENT. 4909 03:57:43,470 --> 03:57:46,906 WE SHARE EEG fMRI DATA AND 4910 03:57:46,906 --> 03:57:48,908 COORDINATES OF OUR STIM HAITIAN 4911 03:57:48,908 --> 03:57:52,512 SITE AND THE INTRICACIES OF EACH 4912 03:57:52,512 --> 03:57:55,315 PULSE ALONG A THREE-HOUR 4913 03:57:55,315 --> 03:58:03,256 STIMULATION RECORDING IN ANGLE, 4914 03:58:03,256 --> 03:58:07,694 LOCATION, INTENSITY WOULD LEND 4915 03:58:07,694 --> 03:58:12,465 ITSELF TO INTERESTING ANALYSIS. 4916 03:58:12,465 --> 03:58:13,933 ON HOW THEY IMPACT THE 4917 03:58:13,933 --> 03:58:16,069 STIMULATION AND HOW IT'S 4918 03:58:16,069 --> 03:58:18,138 DELIVERED, IT'S A GREAT POINT. 4919 03:58:18,138 --> 03:58:20,673 I DON'T THINK WE KNOW THAT MUCH 4920 03:58:20,673 --> 03:58:21,441 RIGHT NOW. 4921 03:58:21,441 --> 03:58:23,243 I THINK THERE'S GREAT EFFORTS BY 4922 03:58:23,243 --> 03:58:28,815 SEAN AND NOLAN AND OTHER PEOPLE 4923 03:58:28,815 --> 03:58:34,954 AROUND HOW TO INFLUENCE HOW TMS 4924 03:58:34,954 --> 03:58:39,659 IS DELIVER AND WHERE WITHIN THE 4925 03:58:39,659 --> 03:58:41,961 PREFRONTAL CORTEX FOR TREATMENT 4926 03:58:41,961 --> 03:58:43,663 OF DEPRESSION AND THERE'S BRAIN 4927 03:58:43,663 --> 03:58:47,700 STATE AND LEVEL OF ALERTNESS IS 4928 03:58:47,700 --> 03:58:52,705 KEY PERCEPTION OF THE TMS PULSES 4929 03:58:52,705 --> 03:58:56,242 INFLUENCES THE NEURAL EFFECTS 4930 03:58:56,242 --> 03:58:58,711 AND THE UNDERLYING CIRCUITS IS 4931 03:58:58,711 --> 03:59:03,716 SOMETHING WE NEED TO BETTER 4932 03:59:03,716 --> 03:59:05,919 UNDERSTAND YOU WE DON'T HAVE 4933 03:59:05,919 --> 03:59:08,888 GREAT TOOLS TO MEASURE THE 4934 03:59:08,888 --> 03:59:09,789 FUNCTIONAL CONNECTIVITY 4935 03:59:09,789 --> 03:59:11,691 DIFFERENCES AT BOX AND PERTURB 4936 03:59:11,691 --> 03:59:13,526 AND MEASURE THE NEURAL EFFECTS 4937 03:59:13,526 --> 03:59:15,628 OF THE CHANGES AT THE CIRCUIT 4938 03:59:15,628 --> 03:59:15,828 LEVEL. 4939 03:59:15,828 --> 03:59:18,898 SO I THINK HELEN ASKED A GREAT 4940 03:59:18,898 --> 03:59:21,034 QUESTION BUT I DON'T KNOW IF WE 4941 03:59:21,034 --> 03:59:23,002 HAVE THE TOOLS RIGHT NOW TO 4942 03:59:23,002 --> 03:59:27,674 DESIGN THE STUDIES TO ADDRESS 4943 03:59:27,674 --> 03:59:29,042 THOSE QUESTIONS. 4944 03:59:29,042 --> 03:59:30,843 MAYBE SOMEONE WOULD SAY THAT'S 4945 03:59:30,843 --> 03:59:32,345 NOT TRUE. 4946 03:59:32,345 --> 03:59:36,950 CERTAINLY FROM A TMS EEG POINT 4947 03:59:36,950 --> 03:59:39,552 OF VIEW WE CAN MEASURE THE 4948 03:59:39,552 --> 03:59:42,455 CONNECTIVITY WITH fMRI BUT WHEN 4949 03:59:42,455 --> 03:59:44,924 WE DO EEG WE DON'T LOOK AT THE 4950 03:59:44,924 --> 03:59:47,126 NET ABLE OR ABLE TO LOOK AT IT 4951 03:59:47,126 --> 03:59:47,727 THAT MUCH. 4952 03:59:47,727 --> 03:59:50,330 WE USUALLY LOOK AT LOCAL 4953 03:59:50,330 --> 03:59:52,031 EXCITABILITY AND YOU CAN DO SOME 4954 03:59:52,031 --> 03:59:53,967 OF THAT WITH SOURCE IMAGING AND 4955 03:59:53,967 --> 03:59:56,736 MAYBE WITH BRUCE'S APPROACH OF 4956 03:59:56,736 --> 04:00:02,175 PAIRING EEG AND fMRI WE CAN GET 4957 04:00:02,175 --> 04:00:04,978 AT THAT QUESTION BUT IT'S 4958 04:00:04,978 --> 04:00:05,211 TRICKY. 4959 04:00:05,211 --> 04:00:10,450 >> WHAT ABOUT YOUR WORK WITH 4960 04:00:10,450 --> 04:00:12,218 STEREO EMS AND AMENABLE TO 4961 04:00:12,218 --> 04:00:14,053 CAPTURING THE STATE AT A 4962 04:00:14,053 --> 04:00:15,989 SPECIFIC LOCATION AND MEASURING 4963 04:00:15,989 --> 04:00:26,466 HOW THAT IMPACTS THE TMS OR 4964 04:00:30,403 --> 04:00:30,637 STIMULATION. 4965 04:00:30,637 --> 04:00:33,072 >> THERE'S CAVEATS AND THE 4966 04:00:33,072 --> 04:00:35,975 SENSORY EFFECTS OF TMS AND HOW 4967 04:00:35,975 --> 04:00:38,044 IT AFFECTS THE NEURAL ACTIVITY 4968 04:00:38,044 --> 04:00:39,679 AND CONFOUNDS INTERPRETATION IS 4969 04:00:39,679 --> 04:00:41,014 STILL THERE WHEN YOU MEASURE 4970 04:00:41,014 --> 04:00:42,315 INSIDE THE BRAIN TOO. 4971 04:00:42,315 --> 04:00:44,017 THERE'S STILL LOTS OF ARTIFACTS 4972 04:00:44,017 --> 04:00:46,919 FROM TMS THAT SHOW UP INSIDE THE 4973 04:00:46,919 --> 04:00:47,487 BRAIN. 4974 04:00:47,487 --> 04:00:50,657 SO WHILE IT DOES YIELD HIGH 4975 04:00:50,657 --> 04:00:52,592 SPATIAL TEMPORAL RESOLUTION WITH 4976 04:00:52,592 --> 04:00:55,895 INTRACRANIAL EEG AND QUAN 4977 04:00:55,895 --> 04:01:01,200 ADDRESS SOME COMMENTS HELEN'S 4978 04:01:01,200 --> 04:01:02,502 LOOKING AT SPATIAL AND NEURALLY 4979 04:01:02,502 --> 04:01:04,570 LOCAL RESPONSES TO TMS IS STILL 4980 04:01:04,570 --> 04:01:08,975 IN A VERY UNIQUE POPULATION. 4981 04:01:08,975 --> 04:01:11,377 AND DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN IT'S 4982 04:01:11,377 --> 04:01:13,880 ALSO DIFFICULT TO STANDARDIZE 4983 04:01:13,880 --> 04:01:16,683 THE LOCATION AND INTENSITY AND 4984 04:01:16,683 --> 04:01:19,152 THIS IS IN A NEURO SURGICAL 4985 04:01:19,152 --> 04:01:20,787 POPULATION AND NOT EASY TO GET 4986 04:01:20,787 --> 04:01:31,197 GREAT RECORDINGS EITHER. 4987 04:01:34,334 --> 04:01:37,470 >> I KNOW MY VIDEO MAY NOT WORK 4988 04:01:37,470 --> 04:01:38,604 BUT I'LL JUST TALK. 4989 04:01:38,604 --> 04:01:40,206 I GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND WHY 4990 04:01:40,206 --> 04:01:46,145 IT DOESN'T SEEM POSSIBLE. 4991 04:01:46,145 --> 04:01:55,688 BECAUSE NEURAL NAV PEOPLE AREN'T 4992 04:01:55,688 --> 04:01:59,559 GETTING THIS AT BASELINE WHETHER 4993 04:01:59,559 --> 04:02:02,528 IT'S TOMOGRAPHY AND BASELINE AND 4994 04:02:02,528 --> 04:02:03,396 THE INTEGRITY OF THE WHITE 4995 04:02:03,396 --> 04:02:05,598 MATTER WHERE YOU THINK YOU'RE 4996 04:02:05,598 --> 04:02:07,667 STIMULATING AND FOR US THE DBS, 4997 04:02:07,667 --> 04:02:10,036 YOU KIND OF CAN MODEL THE EXACT 4998 04:02:10,036 --> 04:02:11,604 BIG BUNDLES YOU'RE IN. 4999 04:02:11,604 --> 04:02:18,544 AS I READ THE TMS LITERATURE AND 5000 04:02:18,544 --> 04:02:25,418 THE WORK YOU KIND OF YOU DON'T 5001 04:02:25,418 --> 04:02:26,652 HAVE THE PROBLEM BUT ACCURACY 5002 04:02:26,652 --> 04:02:28,421 COULD BE MODELLED BY HOW THE 5003 04:02:28,421 --> 04:02:30,123 OUTCOME IS AND YOU HAVE PEOPLE 5004 04:02:30,123 --> 04:02:32,525 WITH MORE DURABLE OUTCOME, LESS 5005 04:02:32,525 --> 04:02:33,693 DURABLE OUTCOME. 5006 04:02:33,693 --> 04:02:35,695 WE FOUND THAT THE DAMAGE TO THE 5007 04:02:35,695 --> 04:02:40,767 WHITE MATTER EVEN IN PEOPLE WHO 5008 04:02:40,767 --> 04:02:44,804 GET BETTER DELAYS HOW LONG IT 5009 04:02:44,804 --> 04:02:48,608 TAKES TO GET STABLY WELL AND IF 5010 04:02:48,608 --> 04:02:51,344 EXTRAPOLATED YOU COULD START TO 5011 04:02:51,344 --> 04:02:54,580 LOOK AT MAPS OF DAMAGE AND STA 5012 04:02:54,580 --> 04:02:59,485 ARE THE TO RELATE THESE MACHINE 5013 04:02:59,485 --> 04:03:01,187 LEARNING METHODS MAYBE IN A WAY 5014 04:03:01,187 --> 04:03:03,055 THAT ISN'T AS GRAN YOU AS NOW 5015 04:03:03,055 --> 04:03:13,466 BUT MAY ADD A LAYER OF 5016 04:03:20,239 --> 04:03:21,207 EXPLAINABILITY AND MERGE DATA 5017 04:03:21,207 --> 04:03:29,148 SETS TO COLLECT DATA THAT COULD 5018 04:03:29,148 --> 04:03:32,585 RULE IT IN OR OUT AND I'LL STEP 5019 04:03:32,585 --> 04:03:33,686 OUT BUT WANTED TO THROW THAT IN 5020 04:03:33,686 --> 04:03:44,030 FOR THE DISCUSSION. 5021 04:03:45,398 --> 04:03:48,968 >> DOES ANYONE WANT TO FOLLOW-UP 5022 04:03:48,968 --> 04:03:51,504 BEFORE WE CONTINUE? 5023 04:03:51,504 --> 04:03:54,674 IN TERMS OF DESIGNING IF WE WANT 5024 04:03:54,674 --> 04:03:58,010 TO USE STIMULATION AS A TOOL TO 5025 04:03:58,010 --> 04:04:00,613 UNDERSTAND BRAIN BEHAVIOR 5026 04:04:00,613 --> 04:04:03,216 RELATIONSHIPS, MECHANISMS OF 5027 04:04:03,216 --> 04:04:05,451 COGNITION, IT HAS TO BE DONE IN 5028 04:04:05,451 --> 04:04:08,187 THE CONTEXT OF COGNITIVE TASKS. 5029 04:04:08,187 --> 04:04:10,089 ARE THERE BEST PRACTICES TO MAKE 5030 04:04:10,089 --> 04:04:11,390 SURE YOU CAN INTEGRATE DIFFERENT 5031 04:04:11,390 --> 04:04:17,730 FORMS OF BRAIN STIMULATION WITH 5032 04:04:17,730 --> 04:04:19,732 THE COGNITIVE TASKS WE MAY BE 5033 04:04:19,732 --> 04:04:20,766 INTERESTED IN AND SUBJECTIVE 5034 04:04:20,766 --> 04:04:22,468 SIDE EFFECTS OF STIMULATION AND 5035 04:04:22,468 --> 04:04:24,904 MAKE SURE THOSE THINGS AREN'T 5036 04:04:24,904 --> 04:04:26,439 INFLUENCING TASK PERFORMANCE AND 5037 04:04:26,439 --> 04:04:27,473 NON-SPECIFIC WAYS YOU CAN 5038 04:04:27,473 --> 04:04:29,575 INTERPRET THE EFFECTS OF 5039 04:04:29,575 --> 04:04:30,710 STIMULATION ON BEHAVIOR? 5040 04:04:30,710 --> 04:04:34,213 I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE TO 5041 04:04:34,213 --> 04:04:34,947 HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THINGS 5042 04:04:34,947 --> 04:04:39,285 PEOPLE TYPICALLY DO TO HANDLE 5043 04:04:39,285 --> 04:04:40,786 THESE SOURCES OF DISRUPTION IN 5044 04:04:40,786 --> 04:04:43,990 TERMS OF YOUR INFERENCES WHEN 5045 04:04:43,990 --> 04:04:44,724 YOU PUT BRAIN SIMULATION AND 5046 04:04:44,724 --> 04:04:53,299 BEHAVIOR TOGETHER. 5047 04:04:53,299 --> 04:04:54,934 >> YOU TRY TO CREATE THE BEST IF 5048 04:04:54,934 --> 04:05:00,940 YOU WANT TO DO ONE CONTROL OF 5049 04:05:00,940 --> 04:05:11,484 SHAM FOR INSTANCE AND FEELING IN 5050 04:05:13,653 --> 04:05:15,955 THE CORTEX THAT CONTRACTS 5051 04:05:15,955 --> 04:05:19,425 MUSCLES AND TRY TO USE 5052 04:05:19,425 --> 04:05:20,860 ELECTRICAL STIMULATION BUILT 5053 04:05:20,860 --> 04:05:31,203 INTO HAD MY SYSTEM. 5054 04:05:33,105 --> 04:05:38,878 YOU CAN CREATE THE TMS ON THE 5055 04:05:38,878 --> 04:05:44,784 BRAIN AND HOPE YOU CAN SEE A 5056 04:05:44,784 --> 04:05:46,319 PERFORMANCE TEST AND WITH 5057 04:05:46,319 --> 04:05:48,487 BEHAVIORAL MEASUREMENTS IN TERMS 5058 04:05:48,487 --> 04:05:49,188 OF INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES AND 5059 04:05:49,188 --> 04:05:54,360 STRATEGY AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO 5060 04:05:54,360 --> 04:06:02,168 KEEP IN MIND USING A REACTION 5061 04:06:02,168 --> 04:06:06,606 TIME AND WE SAW NOTHING AND 5062 04:06:06,606 --> 04:06:09,008 USING DRIFT MODELS TO TAKE IN 5063 04:06:09,008 --> 04:06:11,344 DISTRIBUTION AND SUBJECTIVE 5064 04:06:11,344 --> 04:06:16,649 STRATEGIES WE FOUND A POWERFUL 5065 04:06:16,649 --> 04:06:19,151 EFFECT. 5066 04:06:19,151 --> 04:06:22,221 USING A GOOD PHYSICAL MODEL IS A 5067 04:06:22,221 --> 04:06:32,698 GOOD ASPECT TO THIS AS WELL. 5068 04:06:33,366 --> 04:06:38,104 >> I THINK THE SLIDE RAISES THE 5069 04:06:38,104 --> 04:06:38,838 QUESTION NICELY. 5070 04:06:38,838 --> 04:06:41,207 WE'VE BEEN FOCUSSED ON DATA 5071 04:06:41,207 --> 04:06:42,942 COLLECTION INITIATIVES AND 5072 04:06:42,942 --> 04:06:44,310 MECHANISTIC STUDIES BUT YOUR 5073 04:06:44,310 --> 04:06:46,012 QUESTION HAS UNIQUE CHALLENGES 5074 04:06:46,012 --> 04:06:48,547 AND POTENTIALLY UNIQUE VALUE TO 5075 04:06:48,547 --> 04:06:48,714 IT. 5076 04:06:48,714 --> 04:06:51,417 I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT ONE THING 5077 04:06:51,417 --> 04:06:53,919 THE NATURALISTIC TMS WE DO FOR 5078 04:06:53,919 --> 04:06:55,688 DEPRESSION WHERE WE ADMINISTER 5079 04:06:55,688 --> 04:07:01,460 30 TO 50 SESSIONS ACROSS 5080 04:07:01,460 --> 04:07:08,334 MULTIPLE WEEKS OR AND OUTCOMES 5081 04:07:08,334 --> 04:07:10,302 TAKE WEEKS OF STIMULATION. 5082 04:07:10,302 --> 04:07:12,138 THE DEPRESSION DOESN'T GET 5083 04:07:12,138 --> 04:07:14,140 BETTER UNLESS YOU'VE DONE THREE 5084 04:07:14,140 --> 04:07:16,776 WEEKS OF DAILY TMS SESSION. 5085 04:07:16,776 --> 04:07:18,010 IT'S IMPORTANT TO COMPLIMENT THE 5086 04:07:18,010 --> 04:07:19,945 DATA COLLECTION INITIATIVES WITH 5087 04:07:19,945 --> 04:07:22,615 A NATURALISTIC DATA COLLECTION 5088 04:07:22,615 --> 04:07:24,517 INITIATIVE OF PEOPLE GETTING 5089 04:07:24,517 --> 04:07:26,252 CLINICAL TMS BECAUSE YOU'RE 5090 04:07:26,252 --> 04:07:27,920 TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT SESSIONS 5091 04:07:27,920 --> 04:07:30,489 AND TIME SCALES AND I THINK 5092 04:07:30,489 --> 04:07:31,624 THERE ARE NATURAL EXPERIMENTS 5093 04:07:31,624 --> 04:07:34,226 GOING ON OUT THERE THAT CAN BE 5094 04:07:34,226 --> 04:07:35,895 SCALABLE AND CAN BE CAPITALIZED 5095 04:07:35,895 --> 04:07:36,829 ON TO UNDERSTAND THE STIMULATION 5096 04:07:36,829 --> 04:07:46,972 EFFECTS. 5097 04:07:55,948 --> 04:07:57,316 >> THERE'S TMS OVER LONG PERIODS 5098 04:07:57,316 --> 04:07:59,819 LIKE OVER TWO, THREE HOURS. 5099 04:07:59,819 --> 04:08:02,054 MANY LABS HAVE FOUND THEIR OWN 5100 04:08:02,054 --> 04:08:05,658 INTERNAL WAYS TO MAKE SURE THE 5101 04:08:05,658 --> 04:08:08,360 INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT FALL ASLEEP 5102 04:08:08,360 --> 04:08:11,230 OR OF SOMETHING AND SOME PEOPLE 5103 04:08:11,230 --> 04:08:13,365 SHOW THEM LIKE A MOVIE OF A 5104 04:08:13,365 --> 04:08:15,501 TRAIN OR SOMETHING AND SOME 5105 04:08:15,501 --> 04:08:21,173 LOOKED AT PHOTOS WHERE SOME 5106 04:08:21,173 --> 04:08:25,644 PEOPLE TALK TO THE PARTICIPANTS 5107 04:08:25,644 --> 04:08:27,680 AND LOOK AT THEIR OWN STRATEGIES 5108 04:08:27,680 --> 04:08:30,182 AND NOT THAT THE PART OF THIS 5109 04:08:30,182 --> 04:08:32,418 KIND OF REPORTING OF OUTCOMES. 5110 04:08:32,418 --> 04:08:38,791 I THINK IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING 5111 04:08:38,791 --> 04:08:47,900 SHOULD BE PART OF RECORDING. 5112 04:08:47,900 --> 04:08:51,670 >> ONE THING I'VE BEEN THINKING 5113 04:08:51,670 --> 04:08:55,775 ABOUT AS WE MOVE TOWARDS BOTH 5114 04:08:55,775 --> 04:08:58,410 INVASIVE AND STIMULATE NOT JUST 5115 04:08:58,410 --> 04:09:00,012 IN THE LAB BUT POTENTIALLY 5116 04:09:00,012 --> 04:09:02,948 WEARABLE STIMULATION THIS 5117 04:09:02,948 --> 04:09:04,884 QUESTION OF BEHAVIORAL 5118 04:09:04,884 --> 04:09:06,786 ASSESSMENT AND NATURALISTIC 5119 04:09:06,786 --> 04:09:14,426 VERSUS LABORATORY BASED BECOME 5120 04:09:14,426 --> 04:09:14,994 BURDENING. 5121 04:09:14,994 --> 04:09:19,665 WHAT ARE THE CLOSED LOOP AND 5122 04:09:19,665 --> 04:09:23,669 REAL WORLD METRICS AND MARKERS 5123 04:09:23,669 --> 04:09:26,472 WE WOULD WANT TO BE ACTUALLY 5124 04:09:26,472 --> 04:09:29,008 MEASURING GIVEN THAT ULTIMATELY 5125 04:09:29,008 --> 04:09:31,443 THAT'S WHERE THE SYMPTOMS APPEAR 5126 04:09:31,443 --> 04:09:33,445 AND WHERE THE SYMPTOMS HAVE 5127 04:09:33,445 --> 04:09:35,181 EFFECTS ON EVERY DAY LIVES AND 5128 04:09:35,181 --> 04:09:38,450 SO CONNECTING OUR LABORATORY 5129 04:09:38,450 --> 04:09:41,887 METRICS TO REAL WORLD BEHAVIORS 5130 04:09:41,887 --> 04:09:43,455 AND OUTCOMES IS GOING TO BECOME 5131 04:09:43,455 --> 04:09:50,663 REALLY IMPORTANT. 5132 04:09:50,663 --> 04:09:55,100 >> IT FEELS LIKE RESEARCH ON THE 5133 04:09:55,100 --> 04:09:56,502 OBJECTIVES CAN SPLIT AT SOME 5134 04:09:56,502 --> 04:09:59,038 LEVEL WITH MECHANISTIC AND HIGH 5135 04:09:59,038 --> 04:10:02,007 LEVELS OF CONTROL AND INFERENCES 5136 04:10:02,007 --> 04:10:03,175 ABOUT WHAT YOUR SIMULATION IN 5137 04:10:03,175 --> 04:10:04,610 THE BRAIN FUNCTION VERSUS 5138 04:10:04,610 --> 04:10:06,545 INTERVENTIONAL THINGS. 5139 04:10:06,545 --> 04:10:07,913 YOU TALK ABOUT CLOSED LOOP AND 5140 04:10:07,913 --> 04:10:09,315 THINGS LIKE THAT. 5141 04:10:09,315 --> 04:10:11,517 THAT MAY BE EASY TO IMPLEMENT IN 5142 04:10:11,517 --> 04:10:12,484 THE LABORATORY SETTING BUT YOU 5143 04:10:12,484 --> 04:10:13,919 HAVE TO HAVE FULL CONTROL OVER 5144 04:10:13,919 --> 04:10:15,754 THE INPUTS TO START TO THINK 5145 04:10:15,754 --> 04:10:20,559 ABOUT PUTTING TOGETHER A 5146 04:10:20,559 --> 04:10:21,660 CLOSED-LOOP SYSTEM. 5147 04:10:21,660 --> 04:10:24,163 THIS IS A POINT WHERE IT'S 5148 04:10:24,163 --> 04:10:25,764 IMPORTANT TO DO GOAL SETTING IN 5149 04:10:25,764 --> 04:10:28,767 TERMS OF THE SCIENTIFIC OR 5150 04:10:28,767 --> 04:10:30,336 CLINICAL OBJECTIVES BECAUSE THEY 5151 04:10:30,336 --> 04:10:31,670 CONSTRAIN HEAVILY THE METHODS WE 5152 04:10:31,670 --> 04:10:41,881 NEED TO USE. 5153 04:10:51,490 --> 04:10:53,192 YOU I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION 5154 04:10:53,192 --> 04:10:54,426 RELEVANT TO THE THEMES AND 5155 04:10:54,426 --> 04:10:57,930 INTEGRATION WITH THE NON-HUMAN 5156 04:10:57,930 --> 04:10:59,398 ANIMAL MODELS. 5157 04:10:59,398 --> 04:11:00,766 WHAT ARE PROMISING THINGS PEOPLE 5158 04:11:00,766 --> 04:11:04,570 ARE DOING IN THIS SPACE AND THE 5159 04:11:04,570 --> 04:11:06,972 CHALLENGES AND ANY KINDS OF 5160 04:11:06,972 --> 04:11:08,173 QUESTIONS MORE SUITABLE TO BE 5161 04:11:08,173 --> 04:11:10,943 ADDRESSED WITH METHODS THAT ARE 5162 04:11:10,943 --> 04:11:13,913 CURRENTLY AVAILABLE? 5163 04:11:13,913 --> 04:11:19,685 ANY THINGS THAT ARE HARDER WITH 5164 04:11:19,685 --> 04:11:22,154 METHODS TO BE AVAILABLE? 5165 04:11:22,154 --> 04:11:27,559 WHAT ARE EFFECTIVE AND 5166 04:11:27,559 --> 04:11:29,028 INEFFECTIVE MODELS. 5167 04:11:29,028 --> 04:11:31,664 YOU START WITH STIMULATION 5168 04:11:31,664 --> 04:11:31,897 PHYSICS. 5169 04:11:31,897 --> 04:11:36,669 YOU PUT THE TMS OVER THE HUMAN 5170 04:11:36,669 --> 04:11:40,739 OR MOUSE IT WILL GET THE 5171 04:11:40,739 --> 04:11:44,810 DIFFERENT FIELD AND ELECTRIC 5172 04:11:44,810 --> 04:11:45,511 STIMULA 5173 04:11:45,511 --> 04:11:45,811 STIMULATION. 5174 04:11:45,811 --> 04:11:47,713 THOSE ARE THINGS THAT MAKE A BIG 5175 04:11:47,713 --> 04:11:50,683 DIFFERENCE. 5176 04:11:50,683 --> 04:11:55,688 ANIMAL MODELS AND CLOSER TO WHAT 5177 04:11:55,688 --> 04:12:02,394 A HUMAN CAN DO MORE TRANSLATION 5178 04:12:02,394 --> 04:12:05,264 EFFORTS AND ONE GREAT ADVANTAGE 5179 04:12:05,264 --> 04:12:08,367 IS ANIMAL MODELS CAN HAVE A 5180 04:12:08,367 --> 04:12:10,836 PRECISE DOSE CONTROL. 5181 04:12:10,836 --> 04:12:18,477 YOU DO INVASIVE MEASUREMENTS AND 5182 04:12:18,477 --> 04:12:22,047 YOU CAN HAVE A VALUABLE EFFORT 5183 04:12:22,047 --> 04:12:25,517 PAUSE THEY CAN COMPARE TO SAY 5184 04:12:25,517 --> 04:12:28,287 STIMULATION THAT WE HAVE IN THE 5185 04:12:28,287 --> 04:12:28,520 HUMANS. 5186 04:12:28,520 --> 04:12:32,324 I'M A BIG FAN OF THE DOSE 5187 04:12:32,324 --> 04:12:33,125 CONTROL THAT'S POSSIBLE IN THOSE 5188 04:12:33,125 --> 04:12:41,100 ANIMAL MODELS. 5189 04:12:41,100 --> 04:12:43,168 >> ONE RELEVANT QUESTION IN 5190 04:12:43,168 --> 04:12:44,603 TERMS OF LARGER SCALE EFFORTS IS 5191 04:12:44,603 --> 04:12:49,408 HOW TO INCENTIVE IT AS WELL. 5192 04:12:49,408 --> 04:12:52,177 WHEN YOU START APPLYING 5193 04:12:52,177 --> 04:12:53,112 NON-INVASIVE STIMULATION METHODS 5194 04:12:53,112 --> 04:12:56,682 THAT CAN BE USED IN HUMANS FOR 5195 04:12:56,682 --> 04:13:01,086 EXAMPLE NON-PRIMATE LEVELS 5196 04:13:01,086 --> 04:13:05,224 YOU'RE AT LEVEL COARSER TO WHAT 5197 04:13:05,224 --> 04:13:06,725 IS THE CUTTING-EDGE METHOD IN 5198 04:13:06,725 --> 04:13:08,761 THE ANIMAL MODEL TO IDENTIFY 5199 04:13:08,761 --> 04:13:09,094 QUESTIONS. 5200 04:13:09,094 --> 04:13:12,131 HOW DO YOU MOTIVATE PEOPLE TO 5201 04:13:12,131 --> 04:13:16,168 ACROSS ACROSS LEVELS AND USELESS 5202 04:13:16,168 --> 04:13:18,070 SOPHISTICATED APPROACHES TO 5203 04:13:18,070 --> 04:13:20,572 UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN 5204 04:13:20,572 --> 04:13:22,875 THE HUMAN BRAIN? 5205 04:13:22,875 --> 04:13:24,576 CORY YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP. 5206 04:13:24,576 --> 04:13:25,611 >> ONE QUICK COMMENT. 5207 04:13:25,611 --> 04:13:27,679 I THINK IT'S WORTH WHETHER YOU 5208 04:13:27,679 --> 04:13:29,314 ARE TALKING ABOUT TEMPORAL 5209 04:13:29,314 --> 04:13:35,954 SCALES OR ANIMAL MODELS TO NOT 5210 04:13:35,954 --> 04:13:37,689 VEER TOO FAR FROM YOUR INITIAL 5211 04:13:37,689 --> 04:13:37,890 STUDY. 5212 04:13:37,890 --> 04:13:39,591 AS YOU GO DEEPER AND DEEPER IN 5213 04:13:39,591 --> 04:13:42,127 THE ANIMAL MODEL WORK AND WORK 5214 04:13:42,127 --> 04:13:44,663 WITH MICE AND OPTOGENETIC 5215 04:13:44,663 --> 04:13:45,998 STIMULATION AND TRYING TO RELATE 5216 04:13:45,998 --> 04:13:49,968 THAT TO TMS AND EEG IN HUMANS 5217 04:13:49,968 --> 04:13:53,305 YOU MAY LOSE THE THREAT A LITTLE 5218 04:13:53,305 --> 04:13:54,706 BIT AND THERE'S SO MANY 5219 04:13:54,706 --> 04:13:59,344 APPROACHES IT'S DIFFICULT. 5220 04:13:59,344 --> 04:14:02,915 IF YOU GO TO NON-HUMAN PRIMATE 5221 04:14:02,915 --> 04:14:03,549 AND USE EMS COIL YOU'LL BE ABLE 5222 04:14:03,549 --> 04:14:04,917 TO FOLLOW THE THREAT. 5223 04:14:04,917 --> 04:14:08,487 SIMILARLY IF YOU LOOK AT SCALP 5224 04:14:08,487 --> 04:14:10,923 EEG AND DIVE INTO SINGLE UNIT 5225 04:14:10,923 --> 04:14:13,959 RECORDINGS YOU MAY BRING IN THE 5226 04:14:13,959 --> 04:14:14,760 INVASIVE WORK IN BETWEEN AND 5227 04:14:14,760 --> 04:14:16,428 THAT MAY GET THERE. 5228 04:14:16,428 --> 04:14:18,630 ON THE TEMPORAL SCALE TOO IF YOU 5229 04:14:18,630 --> 04:14:21,600 LOOK ACUTE EFFECTS OF A SINGLE 5230 04:14:21,600 --> 04:14:24,369 SESSION OF DATA BURST FOR THREE 5231 04:14:24,369 --> 04:14:27,673 MINUTES AND LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS 5232 04:14:27,673 --> 04:14:28,874 WHAT HAPPENS WITHIN THE FIRST 5233 04:14:28,874 --> 04:14:32,044 MINUTE OF TMS AND LONGITUDINAL 5234 04:14:32,044 --> 04:14:33,045 RECORDINGS IN PATIENTS WITH 5235 04:14:33,045 --> 04:14:35,380 DEPRESSION AND TRYING TO ALIGN 5236 04:14:35,380 --> 04:14:39,017 THOSE THREADS, IT'S TRICKY. 5237 04:14:39,017 --> 04:14:40,652 YOU NEED TO WALK ALONG SLOWLY 5238 04:14:40,652 --> 04:14:42,421 WHICH CAN BE LESS EXCITING 5239 04:14:42,421 --> 04:14:42,955 INITIALLY BUT IS REALLY 5240 04:14:42,955 --> 04:14:45,357 IMPORTANT. 5241 04:14:45,357 --> 04:14:47,226 >> WE JUST GOT A 10 MINUTE 5242 04:14:47,226 --> 04:14:47,926 REMAINING WARNING. 5243 04:14:47,926 --> 04:14:58,303 I GOT MY CHAT WORKING. 5244 04:15:01,940 --> 04:15:03,375 >> WHEN EN YOU DO STIMULATION 5245 04:15:03,375 --> 04:15:07,980 AND NON-STIMULATION IN ANIMAL 5246 04:15:07,980 --> 04:15:09,548 MODELS MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE 5247 04:15:09,548 --> 04:15:11,984 LITHE THE THICKNESS OF THE SKULL 5248 04:15:11,984 --> 04:15:14,920 AND MUSCLE IN THE SKULL. 5249 04:15:14,920 --> 04:15:16,155 THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 5250 04:15:16,155 --> 04:15:20,659 HUMANS AND PRIMATES AND WORKING 5251 04:15:20,659 --> 04:15:24,263 OUT THOSE DIFFERENCES AND WE 5252 04:15:24,263 --> 04:15:32,604 HAVE MORE WORK DO. 5253 04:15:32,604 --> 04:15:36,275 AND YOU CAN HAVE A GENTLE 5254 04:15:36,275 --> 04:15:38,710 MASSAGING OF THE BRAIN AND THE 5255 04:15:38,710 --> 04:15:39,811 THICKNESS OF THE SKULL AND 5256 04:15:39,811 --> 04:15:42,748 MUSCLES WILL ALL EFFECT BE WHICH 5257 04:15:42,748 --> 04:15:45,551 FREQUENCIES YOU GRAB AND THE 5258 04:15:45,551 --> 04:15:47,052 EXTENT OF THE STIMULATION. 5259 04:15:47,052 --> 04:15:47,786 I GUESS MUCH SAYING MORE WORK TO 5260 04:15:47,786 --> 04:15:51,890 DO. 5261 04:15:51,890 --> 04:15:57,596 >> I THINK WE ONLY HAVE SO 5262 04:15:57,596 --> 04:16:02,834 MINUTES SO WE HAVE A LOT OF 5263 04:16:02,834 --> 04:16:08,407 BIGGER PICTURE QUESTIONS AND 5264 04:16:08,407 --> 04:16:11,310 MOVE TO LARGE SCALE STUDIES AND 5265 04:16:11,310 --> 04:16:11,710 DESIGN. 5266 04:16:11,710 --> 04:16:13,412 WE TOUCHED ON THE IDEAS I THINK 5267 04:16:13,412 --> 04:16:15,547 IT WOULD BE GOOD TO REVISIT 5268 04:16:15,547 --> 04:16:20,085 THEM. 5269 04:16:20,085 --> 04:16:27,192 WE TALKED ABOUT A WHOLE LIST OF 5270 04:16:27,192 --> 04:16:28,760 THINGS AND ACCOUNTING FOR 5271 04:16:28,760 --> 04:16:29,494 INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES AND 5272 04:16:29,494 --> 04:16:32,664 EFFORTS USED TO TRY TO TRACK 5273 04:16:32,664 --> 04:16:34,066 THESE VARIABLES, I'M WONDERING 5274 04:16:34,066 --> 04:16:35,667 IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO TALK 5275 04:16:35,667 --> 04:16:38,437 ABOUT BEST PRACTICES IN TERMS OF 5276 04:16:38,437 --> 04:16:40,239 WHAT VARIABLES COULD BE 5277 04:16:40,239 --> 04:16:41,773 ACCOUNTED FOR WITH LARGER SCALE 5278 04:16:41,773 --> 04:16:43,542 ACROSS SITES AND NON-INVASIVE 5279 04:16:43,542 --> 04:16:46,311 BRAIN STIMULATION AND STUDIES. 5280 04:16:46,311 --> 04:16:48,747 WHAT ARE THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO 5281 04:16:48,747 --> 04:16:51,149 CAPTURE AND ANY THOUGHTS HOW TO 5282 04:16:51,149 --> 04:17:01,426 STANDARDIZE IT. 5283 04:17:10,469 --> 04:17:15,374 >> THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE WITH 5284 04:17:15,374 --> 04:17:16,608 THE CLINICAL SETTING WE DO IN 5285 04:17:16,608 --> 04:17:18,577 OUR LAB. 5286 04:17:18,577 --> 04:17:19,911 I WORRY ABOUT STANDARDIZING DATA 5287 04:17:19,911 --> 04:17:24,850 COLLECTION AND PARADIGMS BECAUSE 5288 04:17:24,850 --> 04:17:27,019 A LOT OF THEE DISCOVERIES MADE 5289 04:17:27,019 --> 04:17:29,788 OVER THE YEARS ARE MADE WITH 5290 04:17:29,788 --> 04:17:31,623 INNOVATIVE PARADIGMS AND 5291 04:17:31,623 --> 04:17:33,125 STANDARDIZING THE PARADIGM LIKE 5292 04:17:33,125 --> 04:17:35,494 YOU PUT BLINDERS ON AND FORCED 5293 04:17:35,494 --> 04:17:36,995 DOWN CERTAIN CHANNELS. 5294 04:17:36,995 --> 04:17:42,467 AND THAT MAY WORK WORK VERY WELL 5295 04:17:42,467 --> 04:17:48,307 IN THE APPROPRIATE OR CLINICAL 5296 04:17:48,307 --> 04:17:51,043 SETTING BUT STANDARDIZE TEXTS 5297 04:17:51,043 --> 04:17:52,477 ARE COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. 5298 04:17:52,477 --> 04:17:54,012 >> IT'S A WONDERFUL POINT THAT'S 5299 04:17:54,012 --> 04:17:55,213 COME UP A FEW TIMES. 5300 04:17:55,213 --> 04:17:59,851 IT'S GOOD TO HAVE SOME 5301 04:17:59,851 --> 04:18:02,454 STANDARDIZED TOOLS PEOPLE CAN 5302 04:18:02,454 --> 04:18:08,493 USE IF THEY WANT TO DRAW A 5303 04:18:08,493 --> 04:18:11,063 COGNITIVE FUNCTION AND DESPITE 5304 04:18:11,063 --> 04:18:13,298 ALL THE VAGRANCIES AND 5305 04:18:13,298 --> 04:18:15,567 EXPERIMENTAL GOALS HOW DO WE PUT 5306 04:18:15,567 --> 04:18:19,004 DATA IN A FORMAT TO ALLOW IT TO 5307 04:18:19,004 --> 04:18:20,772 BE AGGREGATED IN THE FUTURE AND 5308 04:18:20,772 --> 04:18:23,508 ANALYZED IN A WAY BEYOND OUR 5309 04:18:23,508 --> 04:18:23,842 LABORATORIES. 5310 04:18:23,842 --> 04:18:27,679 >> AND THAT STANDARDIZING TOOL 5311 04:18:27,679 --> 04:18:29,815 KITS FOR DATA AND WE CAN DO ALL 5312 04:18:29,815 --> 04:18:30,449 THAT. 5313 04:18:30,449 --> 04:18:35,087 THE EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN IS WHERE 5314 04:18:35,087 --> 04:18:37,022 I GET WORRIED. 5315 04:18:37,022 --> 04:18:39,191 >> THERE'S MODELS IN THE NEURO 5316 04:18:39,191 --> 04:18:44,563 IMAGING FIELD AND IT WOULD BE 5317 04:18:44,563 --> 04:18:55,107 GREAT TO HAVE IDEAS AND LOOK AT 5318 04:18:59,444 --> 04:19:01,847 FOR 5319 04:19:01,847 --> 04:19:02,080 FORMATS. 5320 04:19:02,080 --> 04:19:03,648 >> MAKE SOFTWARE TOOLS AVAILABLE 5321 04:19:03,648 --> 04:19:04,416 TO THE COMMUNITY AND MAKE IT 5322 04:19:04,416 --> 04:19:09,020 EASY TO USE. 5323 04:19:09,020 --> 04:19:11,890 ELECTRIC MODELS HAS TO COME AS A 5324 04:19:11,890 --> 04:19:15,060 STANDARD TOOL THAT'S BEEN NOW 5325 04:19:15,060 --> 04:19:19,030 USED AND BASICALLY MANY NOT ALL 5326 04:19:19,030 --> 04:19:20,132 NON-INVASIVE BRAIN STIMULATION 5327 04:19:20,132 --> 04:19:22,567 STUDIES AND THE TOOLS BECOME SO 5328 04:19:22,567 --> 04:19:25,871 EASY TO USE AND YOU DOWNLOAD 5329 04:19:25,871 --> 04:19:33,678 YOUR DATA TO THAT. 5330 04:19:33,678 --> 04:19:35,280 THERE'S INTEGRATION AND OTHER 5331 04:19:35,280 --> 04:19:39,551 IMAGING DATA AND CREATING NEW 5332 04:19:39,551 --> 04:19:40,886 STANDARDS FOR EXAMPLE I THINK 5333 04:19:40,886 --> 04:19:46,458 MAKING IT EASY TO EVERYONE CAN 5334 04:19:46,458 --> 04:19:46,792 USE THAT. 5335 04:19:46,792 --> 04:19:52,864 I THINK YOU CAN USE THAT IN THE 5336 04:19:52,864 --> 04:19:53,899 FIELD. 5337 04:19:53,899 --> 04:19:54,199 >> BRUCE. 5338 04:19:54,199 --> 04:20:04,743 >> IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE 5339 04:20:10,816 --> 04:20:12,884 STIMULATING AND THE OBVIOUS 5340 04:20:12,884 --> 04:20:14,186 THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT DOSING 5341 04:20:14,186 --> 04:20:15,954 AND TARGETING. 5342 04:20:15,954 --> 04:20:18,890 THERE'S VERY SIMPLE THINGS THAT 5343 04:20:18,890 --> 04:20:22,394 COULD BE STANDARDIZED THAT 5344 04:20:22,394 --> 04:20:23,562 PROBABLY SHOULD BE THOSE ARE A 5345 04:20:23,562 --> 04:20:33,905 COUPLE OF EXAMPLES. 5346 04:20:34,306 --> 04:20:37,042 >> LESSONS LEARNED FROM PREVIOUS 5347 04:20:37,042 --> 04:20:40,445 LARGE SCALE EFFORTS I THINK 5348 04:20:40,445 --> 04:20:41,713 THESE ARE A BROAD SPACE TO 5349 04:20:41,713 --> 04:20:46,017 CONSIDER BUT ALONG THE IDEA OF 5350 04:20:46,017 --> 04:20:47,919 THE INCENTIVE STRUCTURES TO 5351 04:20:47,919 --> 04:20:51,623 CREATE A LARGE SCALE EFFORT. 5352 04:20:51,623 --> 04:20:54,226 WE TALKED ABOUT THE IDEA THERE'S 5353 04:20:54,226 --> 04:21:02,234 INCENTIVES FOR OTHER PURPOSES 5354 04:21:02,234 --> 04:21:03,368 AND WE'LL ALL TRY TO ADDRESS THE 5355 04:21:03,368 --> 04:21:05,971 SAME THING AND HARMONIZE ACROSS 5356 04:21:05,971 --> 04:21:16,081 LABS. 5357 04:21:17,449 --> 04:21:18,316 AND INTERESTING TO THINK ABOUT 5358 04:21:18,316 --> 04:21:19,417 WHAT ARE THE INCENTIVES AND 5359 04:21:19,417 --> 04:21:28,493 CHALLENGES. 5360 04:21:28,493 --> 04:21:30,896 >> WE'RE TOLD FROM NOW ON ALL 5361 04:21:30,896 --> 04:21:34,533 OUR DATA HAS TO BE SHARED AND ON 5362 04:21:34,533 --> 04:21:36,501 THE VARIOUS PLATFORMS AT THE NIH 5363 04:21:36,501 --> 04:21:41,006 AND HAVE A FEELING THE 5364 04:21:41,006 --> 04:21:44,042 INCENTIVIZATION IF YOU WANT A 5365 04:21:44,042 --> 04:21:45,777 GRANT OR NOT THE DATA HAS FOR 5366 04:21:45,777 --> 04:21:49,781 SHARED MAY SOLVE ITSELF. 5367 04:21:49,781 --> 04:21:51,182 >> THERE'S A NEED TO WORK OUT 5368 04:21:51,182 --> 04:21:53,985 HOW TO MAKE IT USEFUL. 5369 04:21:53,985 --> 04:21:55,654 I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HAVE TRADE 5370 04:21:55,654 --> 04:21:59,724 TO PULL DATA FROM OTHER STUDIES 5371 04:21:59,724 --> 04:22:02,894 TO RE-ANALYZE THEM. 5372 04:22:02,894 --> 04:22:05,530 I HAVE NOT BECAUSE IT'S A 5373 04:22:05,530 --> 04:22:06,197 TREMENDOUS CONFUSING HEADACHE TO 5374 04:22:06,197 --> 04:22:16,308 DO SO. 5375 04:22:19,244 --> 04:22:25,183 THERE'S CONSENSUS ON THE DATA TO 5376 04:22:25,183 --> 04:22:26,484 AGREE ON SOME STRUCTURE FOR 5377 04:22:26,484 --> 04:22:28,954 WHAT'S GOING TO GET SHARED AND 5378 04:22:28,954 --> 04:22:33,725 HOW TO MAKE IT USABLE WITHOUT AN 5379 04:22:33,725 --> 04:22:36,294 EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF HAND HOLDING 5380 04:22:36,294 --> 04:22:38,063 OF THE PEOPLE WHO CREATED THE 5381 04:22:38,063 --> 04:22:41,099 DATA WHICH IS COMMON AND YOU 5382 04:22:41,099 --> 04:22:42,167 BETTER GET COMFORTABLE WITH 5383 04:22:42,167 --> 04:22:52,344 WHOEVER COLLECTED THE DATA. 5384 04:22:52,344 --> 04:22:56,414 >> FOR THE TMS, EMG FIELD SO 5385 04:22:56,414 --> 04:22:57,449 THERE'S AN INTERNATIONAL 5386 04:22:57,449 --> 04:23:00,619 CONSORTIUM WHERE WE TRIED TO 5387 04:23:00,619 --> 04:23:02,721 ESTABLISH AND HAS OVER 30 LABS 5388 04:23:02,721 --> 04:23:04,489 AROUND THE WORLD SO TO DO THE 5389 04:23:04,489 --> 04:23:07,158 STUDY WHERE WE WOULD ALL DO THE 5390 04:23:07,158 --> 04:23:08,426 SAME THING THOUGH WE HAVE 5391 04:23:08,426 --> 04:23:09,794 SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DEVICES AND 5392 04:23:09,794 --> 04:23:13,632 LOOK AT THE RESULTS. 5393 04:23:13,632 --> 04:23:18,136 THEN THE START OF THE STUDY HAS 5394 04:23:18,136 --> 04:23:20,405 BEEN DELAYED BECAUSE OF 5395 04:23:20,405 --> 04:23:22,841 INTERNATIONAL -- WE ALL HAVE 5396 04:23:22,841 --> 04:23:29,347 DIFFERENT HIPAA RULES AND ALSO 5397 04:23:29,347 --> 04:23:33,985 AND WHAT IS IDENTIFIABLE DATA. 5398 04:23:33,985 --> 04:23:37,255 SO SOME IRB'S ARGUE THAT EEG'S 5399 04:23:37,255 --> 04:23:42,394 ARE IDENTIFIABLE AND IT'S NOT 5400 04:23:42,394 --> 04:23:46,331 REALLY CONSENSUS IN THEORY WITH 5401 04:23:46,331 --> 04:23:47,732 THE MACHINE LEARNING THINGS YOU 5402 04:23:47,732 --> 04:23:49,300 COULD IDENTIFY EVERYTHING AND 5403 04:23:49,300 --> 04:23:59,844 THEN LIKE THAT HAS SLOWED DOWN 5404 04:24:00,912 --> 04:24:02,480 TMS IS CONSIDERED NON-INVASIVE 5405 04:24:02,480 --> 04:24:03,948 AND IN EUROPE THEY'RE TRYING TO 5406 04:24:03,948 --> 04:24:07,318 CHARGE THE CLASSIFICATIONS SO 5407 04:24:07,318 --> 04:24:10,355 THAT TMS WOULD BE THE SAME RISK 5408 04:24:10,355 --> 04:24:18,763 LEVEL AS INVASIVE STIMULATION 5409 04:24:18,763 --> 04:24:22,534 AND INTERNATIONAL 5410 04:24:22,534 --> 04:24:23,668 COLLABORATIONS. 5411 04:24:23,668 --> 04:24:26,471 >> EXCELLENT POINT. 5412 04:24:26,471 --> 04:24:29,941 ALEC WIDGE SAID THAT'S RED TAPE 5413 04:24:29,941 --> 04:24:35,480 THAT NEEDS CUTTING WITH DATA 5414 04:24:35,480 --> 04:24:45,957 SHARING AND IT NEEDS TO BE 5415 04:24:46,558 --> 04:24:47,659 SHARED AND HELP MOTIVATE 5416 04:24:47,659 --> 04:24:48,259 INSTITUTIONS TO DO SO AT SOME 5417 04:24:48,259 --> 04:24:58,369 LEVEL. 5418 04:25:03,408 --> 04:25:05,744 THERE'S A COMMENT IN THE CHAT 5419 04:25:05,744 --> 04:25:08,613 AND SAMPLE SIZE IS THE 5420 04:25:08,613 --> 04:25:13,852 PRECONDITION FOR SOME TOPICS. 5421 04:25:13,852 --> 04:25:16,488 >> IT'S OBVIOUS. 5422 04:25:16,488 --> 04:25:18,656 YOU NEED MORE THAN SAMPLE SIZE 5423 04:25:18,656 --> 04:25:28,900 BUT IT'S A PLARGE SAMPLE SIZE 5424 04:25:28,900 --> 04:25:29,400 THAT'S CRUCIAL. 5425 04:25:29,400 --> 04:25:31,069 >> THIS IS A COMMENT YOU BROUGHT 5426 04:25:31,069 --> 04:25:32,604 UP BEFORE THE MEETING AS WELL 5427 04:25:32,604 --> 04:25:36,107 WHICH IS THE QUESTION ABOUT ARE 5428 04:25:36,107 --> 04:25:38,676 THERE DATA FROM NON-INVASIVE 5429 04:25:38,676 --> 04:25:40,612 BRAIN STIMULATION OR STIMULATION 5430 04:25:40,612 --> 04:25:42,814 IN GENERAL TO HELP MOTIVATE 5431 04:25:42,814 --> 04:25:45,950 CONSIDERATION OF EFFECT SIZE AND 5432 04:25:45,950 --> 04:25:46,651 EXPERIMENT DESIGN. 5433 04:25:46,651 --> 04:25:48,920 THAT THE A REALLY INTERESTING 5434 04:25:48,920 --> 04:25:49,187 QUESTION. 5435 04:25:49,187 --> 04:25:51,656 I THINK THERE ARE A TON MY TAKE 5436 04:25:51,656 --> 04:25:57,095 IS THERE'S SMALL END STUDIES OUT 5437 04:25:57,095 --> 04:26:03,701 THERE THAT AND THERE MAY BE WORK 5438 04:26:03,701 --> 04:26:07,438 IN EXISTING DATA TO THEN HAVE A 5439 04:26:07,438 --> 04:26:10,008 DECENT SAMPLE TO ESTIMATE EFFECT 5440 04:26:10,008 --> 04:26:14,646 SIZE FOR EXPERIMENT DESIGN IS A 5441 04:26:14,646 --> 04:26:14,913 QUESTION 5442 04:26:14,913 --> 04:26:17,515 >> AND MORE DIVERSE SAMPLES WILL 5443 04:26:17,515 --> 04:26:21,519 BE MORE DIVERSE IN DIFFERENT 5444 04:26:21,519 --> 04:26:22,320 WAYS GOING BACK TO THE 5445 04:26:22,320 --> 04:26:24,489 INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES AND 5446 04:26:24,489 --> 04:26:27,659 ACCOUNTING FOR THAT WILL BE IF 5447 04:26:27,659 --> 04:26:30,562 THOSE COULD TEND TO WASH OUT 5448 04:26:30,562 --> 04:26:32,330 EFFECT SIZES IN SMALLER, 5449 04:26:32,330 --> 04:26:37,335 TARGETED STUDIES TO SOME EXTENT. 5450 04:26:37,335 --> 04:26:40,872 >> FOR SOME INVASIVE STIMULATION 5451 04:26:40,872 --> 04:26:43,241 STUDIES IT CAN GET IN THE SINGLE 5452 04:26:43,241 --> 04:26:45,410 DIGITS. 5453 04:26:45,410 --> 04:26:46,211 MAYBE THAT'S OKAY. 5454 04:26:46,211 --> 04:26:47,679 EARL, YOU'RE ON HERE AND YOUR 5455 04:26:47,679 --> 04:26:50,949 SAMPLE SIZES ARE ONE OR TWO. 5456 04:26:50,949 --> 04:26:52,617 IS THERE A TENSION BETWEEN 5457 04:26:52,617 --> 04:26:53,785 GETTING A LOT OF DATA FROM A 5458 04:26:53,785 --> 04:26:58,756 SMALL NUMBER OF SUBJECTS THAT 5459 04:26:58,756 --> 04:27:04,295 ARE HIGHLY REPUBLLICABLE VERSUS 5460 04:27:04,295 --> 04:27:05,997 OTHER SUBJECTS? 5461 04:27:05,997 --> 04:27:08,066 >> THAT'S THE NATURE OF OUR 5462 04:27:08,066 --> 04:27:08,333 MEASURES. 5463 04:27:08,333 --> 04:27:09,968 WE DO OBSERVATION SPACED OUT 5464 04:27:09,968 --> 04:27:15,573 OVER TIME IN HUGE NUMBERS OF 5465 04:27:15,573 --> 04:27:21,312 SUBJECTS RATHER WE CAN'T EVEN 5466 04:27:21,312 --> 04:27:25,350 APPROACH THOSE QUESTIONS IN 5467 04:27:25,350 --> 04:27:31,222 NON-HUMAN PRIMATES BUT IT'S 5468 04:27:31,222 --> 04:27:36,761 SPACED OUT. 5469 04:27:36,761 --> 04:27:40,632 >> WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING IN LIKE 5470 04:27:40,632 --> 04:27:44,903 MIKE AND SHAN WERE TALKING ABOUT 5471 04:27:44,903 --> 04:27:46,170 FOR MANY WEEKS OF STIMULATION 5472 04:27:46,170 --> 04:27:48,373 EVERY DAY AND MAY BE POSSIBLE TO 5473 04:27:48,373 --> 04:27:50,074 LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL REPLICABILITY 5474 04:27:50,074 --> 04:27:51,676 OVER MANY SESSIONS OF SOME OF 5475 04:27:51,676 --> 04:27:59,217 THE VARIABLES. 5476 04:27:59,217 --> 04:28:00,018 >> IT'S A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION 5477 04:28:00,018 --> 04:28:02,253 BUT WE'RE RUNNING ABOUT THREE 5478 04:28:02,253 --> 04:28:03,354 MINUTES OVER. 5479 04:28:03,354 --> 04:28:04,289 I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING REAL 5480 04:28:04,289 --> 04:28:06,491 QUICK AND TURN IT OVER TO 5481 04:28:06,491 --> 04:28:06,724 CLAYTON. 5482 04:28:06,724 --> 04:28:13,965 >> I JUST WANTED TO THANK THE 5483 04:28:13,965 --> 04:28:15,733 ORGANIZATION AND TAKING THE 5484 04:28:15,733 --> 04:28:17,702 NEBULOUS IDEAS AND TURNING THEM 5485 04:28:17,702 --> 04:28:19,270 INTO LOTS OF TOPICS FOR 5486 04:28:19,270 --> 04:28:20,371 CONVERSATIONS THE LAST FEW DAYS. 5487 04:28:20,371 --> 04:28:22,507 IT'S BEEN EXCITING AND 5488 04:28:22,507 --> 04:28:22,807 MOTIVATING. 5489 04:28:22,807 --> 04:28:24,742 THIS IS THE LAST SESSION AND 5490 04:28:24,742 --> 04:28:26,945 HAVE A SLIDE SO I GET TO HAVE 5491 04:28:26,945 --> 04:28:28,413 THE FINAL MEME TO END. 5492 04:28:28,413 --> 04:28:35,653 I HOPE IT'S MOTIVATING. 5493 04:28:35,653 --> 04:28:38,723 >> THANK YOU, JOEL, AARON AND 5494 04:28:38,723 --> 04:28:40,558 YOU WILL OF YOU FOR A GREAT 5495 04:28:40,558 --> 04:28:40,792 SESSION. 5496 04:28:40,792 --> 04:28:44,896 IT'S BEEN FANTASTIC. 5497 04:28:44,896 --> 04:28:47,899 WE STARTED OFF WITH A BANG AND 5498 04:28:47,899 --> 04:28:49,400 FORTUNATE TO CLOSE WITH ANOTHER 5499 04:28:49,400 --> 04:28:49,701 BANG. 5500 04:28:49,701 --> 04:28:53,338 SO HERE TO OFFER HIS REMARKS IS 5501 04:28:53,338 --> 04:28:56,441 THE DIRECTOR OF THE NIH BRAIN 5502 04:28:56,441 --> 04:28:58,443 INITIATIVE, DR. JOHN NGAI 5503 04:28:58,443 --> 04:28:59,677 BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS WHO HE IS 5504 04:28:59,677 --> 04:29:02,613 I'M GOING TO FIGHT BACK MY 5505 04:29:02,613 --> 04:29:04,048 TEMPTATION TO LAUNCH INTO 5506 04:29:04,048 --> 04:29:05,616 PERSONAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND SAY 5507 04:29:05,616 --> 04:29:08,386 HOW GRATEFUL WE ARE FOR HIS 5508 04:29:08,386 --> 04:29:10,488 VISIONARY LEADERSHIP AT THE 5509 04:29:10,488 --> 04:29:13,458 BRAIN INITIATIVE AND AFTER HIS 5510 04:29:13,458 --> 04:29:14,692 REMARKS I'LL BE BACK TO POINT 5511 04:29:14,692 --> 04:29:17,962 EVERYONE TO IMPORTANT RESOURCES 5512 04:29:17,962 --> 04:29:19,464 FOR KEEPING THE CONVERSATIONS 5513 04:29:19,464 --> 04:29:20,098 FROM TODAY AND YESTERDAY MOVING 5514 04:29:20,098 --> 04:29:23,668 FORWARD. 5515 04:29:23,668 --> 04:29:24,035 DR. NGAI. 5516 04:29:24,035 --> 04:29:25,503 >> THANKS, CLAYTON. 5517 04:29:25,503 --> 04:29:28,206 THANK YOU, BONNIE, ANDREW AND 5518 04:29:28,206 --> 04:29:30,174 EVERYONE ON THE PLANNING EQUITY 5519 04:29:30,174 --> 04:29:36,080 AND OUR COLLEAGUES AT ROSE LEE & 5520 04:29:36,080 --> 04:29:38,182 ASSOCIATES FOR PUTTING TOGETHER 5521 04:29:38,182 --> 04:29:40,918 THE WORKSHOP. 5522 04:29:40,918 --> 04:29:43,354 WE HEARD ENTHUSIASM INVOLVING 5523 04:29:43,354 --> 04:29:45,523 STIMULATION AND RECORDING IN 5524 04:29:45,523 --> 04:29:45,957 HUM 5525 04:29:45,957 --> 04:29:51,596 HUMANS WHICH IS A COOL IDEA AND 5526 04:29:51,596 --> 04:29:52,864 WE HEARD GOOD THOUGHT DISCUSSION 5527 04:29:52,864 --> 04:29:55,833 ON QUESTIONS AND CHALLENGES THAT 5528 04:29:55,833 --> 04:29:58,569 NEED THOROUGH CONSIDERATION TO 5529 04:29:58,569 --> 04:29:59,670 INFORM SUCH COORDINATED EFFORT 5530 04:29:59,670 --> 04:30:04,275 SUCH AS THE NEED FOR MORE 5531 04:30:04,275 --> 04:30:04,976 STANDARDIZED WAYS OF 5532 04:30:04,976 --> 04:30:07,045 UNDERSTANDING THE EFFECTS OF 5533 04:30:07,045 --> 04:30:08,179 STIMULATION AND WHETHER IT'S ON 5534 04:30:08,179 --> 04:30:10,648 ASSAYS OR TESTS OR DATA IS 5535 04:30:10,648 --> 04:30:11,716 SOMETHING THAT WILL HAVE TO 5536 04:30:11,716 --> 04:30:12,884 UNFOLD OVER TIME. 5537 04:30:12,884 --> 04:30:15,420 AND HEARING FROM THE STIMULATION 5538 04:30:15,420 --> 04:30:19,624 EXPERT THE THEME EMERGED 5539 04:30:19,624 --> 04:30:21,592 CONVERGENT CAUSES OF INFORMATION 5540 04:30:21,592 --> 04:30:23,594 CAN INFORM STIMULATION TARGETS 5541 04:30:23,594 --> 04:30:24,829 AND NETWORKS OF BEHAVIORAL 5542 04:30:24,829 --> 04:30:25,930 FUNCTION AND DYSFUNCTION. 5543 04:30:25,930 --> 04:30:30,501 FROM THE BEHAVIORAL SESSION WE 5544 04:30:30,501 --> 04:30:35,907 HEARD HOW TESTS ARE CHOSEN AND 5545 04:30:35,907 --> 04:30:36,941 INNOVATION STUDIES AND WHAT 5546 04:30:36,941 --> 04:30:38,609 CONVERSATIONS ARE NEEDED GOING 5547 04:30:38,609 --> 04:30:41,813 FORWARD DURING THE LEVELS OF 5548 04:30:41,813 --> 04:30:42,980 EXPLANATION SESSION WE HEARD 5549 04:30:42,980 --> 04:30:47,051 DYNAMICS AND THE IMPACT OF 5550 04:30:47,051 --> 04:30:47,785 DYNAMIC SYSTEMS AND SEEMS THE 5551 04:30:47,785 --> 04:30:50,421 FIELD IS READY TO TAKE ON 5552 04:30:50,421 --> 04:30:51,689 DYNAMICS MORE AGGRESSIVELY AND 5553 04:30:51,689 --> 04:30:53,825 HEARD COORDINATED EFFORT MAY BE 5554 04:30:53,825 --> 04:30:55,660 ABLE TO FACILITATE DIFFERENT 5555 04:30:55,660 --> 04:30:58,162 LEVELS OF EXPLANATION OF 5556 04:30:58,162 --> 04:31:06,003 COGNITION NOT JUST THE DATA 5557 04:31:06,003 --> 04:31:08,673 AGGREGATION FOUL WITH ARTIFICIAL 5558 04:31:08,673 --> 04:31:10,508 INTELLIGENCE AND ALGORITHMS ARE 5559 04:31:10,508 --> 04:31:11,442 EXCITING. 5560 04:31:11,442 --> 04:31:12,176 CONVERSATIONS DURING THE MODEL 5561 04:31:12,176 --> 04:31:14,946 SYSTEM ENFORCE THE NEED FOR 5562 04:31:14,946 --> 04:31:16,481 STRONG COLLABORATION BETWEEN 5563 04:31:16,481 --> 04:31:19,550 EXPERIMENTAL AND MODELLING 5564 04:31:19,550 --> 04:31:23,654 EXPERTESE FROM THE BEGINNING AND 5565 04:31:23,654 --> 04:31:25,490 LOOKING AT DIFFERENT MODELS AND 5566 04:31:25,490 --> 04:31:27,391 NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR UNCOVER 5567 04:31:27,391 --> 04:31:28,626 INSIGHTS ON FUNDAMENTAL BEHAVIOR 5568 04:31:28,626 --> 04:31:31,662 AND CLINICAL OUTCOMES. 5569 04:31:31,662 --> 04:31:33,898 AND AT AN OPERATIONAL LEVEL 5570 04:31:33,898 --> 04:31:42,840 FINDING PATHS TOWARDS COMMON 5571 04:31:42,840 --> 04:31:43,741 METADATA STANDARD AND LEVERAGE 5572 04:31:43,741 --> 04:31:46,077 THE APPRECIATION DATA RESOURCES 5573 04:31:46,077 --> 04:31:48,212 TO CREATE TRUE KNOWLEDGE BASES 5574 04:31:48,212 --> 04:31:49,714 FOR BROADER BENEFIT. 5575 04:31:49,714 --> 04:31:51,649 AND STRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF 5576 04:31:51,649 --> 04:31:52,583 EMBEDDING THEORY WITH 5577 04:31:52,583 --> 04:31:53,351 EXPERIMENT. 5578 04:31:53,351 --> 04:31:56,521 THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE 5579 04:31:56,521 --> 04:31:57,255 OVERSTATED. 5580 04:31:57,255 --> 04:31:57,788 ANOTHER RECURRING THEME 5581 04:31:57,788 --> 04:31:59,657 THROUGHOUT HAS BEEN 5582 04:31:59,657 --> 04:32:00,992 UNDERSTANDING AND ACCOUNTING FOR 5583 04:32:00,992 --> 04:32:01,859 INDIVIDUAL VARIABILITY AND 5584 04:32:01,859 --> 04:32:04,762 POPULATION HETEROGENEITY. 5585 04:32:04,762 --> 04:32:06,264 STUDY DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS 5586 04:32:06,264 --> 04:32:08,366 WHETHER THE GOAL IS TO 5587 04:32:08,366 --> 04:32:09,867 UNDERSTAND BRAIN FUNCTIONS 5588 04:32:09,867 --> 04:32:13,404 ACROSS INDIVIDUALS OR UNDERSTAND 5589 04:32:13,404 --> 04:32:15,006 POPULATION HETEROGENEITY WITHIN 5590 04:32:15,006 --> 04:32:15,273 PEOPLE. 5591 04:32:15,273 --> 04:32:18,109 THE DISCUSSION FROM THE LAST TWO 5592 04:32:18,109 --> 04:32:19,677 PANELS HAVE BEEN GREAT AND 5593 04:32:19,677 --> 04:32:22,580 HELPED CRYSTALIZE THE CONCEPT 5594 04:32:22,580 --> 04:32:24,348 AND PLACE THEM IN THE PRACTICAL 5595 04:32:24,348 --> 04:32:27,652 CONTEXT OF WORKING ON AND WITH 5596 04:32:27,652 --> 04:32:29,787 ACTUAL HUMANS AND HOW TO 5597 04:32:29,787 --> 04:32:33,891 MAXIMIZE THE DATA OF THEIR 5598 04:32:33,891 --> 04:32:35,593 PARTICIPATION. 5599 04:32:35,593 --> 04:32:39,230 AND WHEN IT COMES TO STIMULATION 5600 04:32:39,230 --> 04:32:44,969 AND PERTURBATION IN HUMANS ONLY 5601 04:32:44,969 --> 04:32:49,507 ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR 5602 04:32:49,507 --> 04:32:51,309 VULNERABLE POPULATION AND KEEP 5603 04:32:51,309 --> 04:32:52,643 FRONT AND CENTER THESE ARE 5604 04:32:52,643 --> 04:32:54,545 PEOPLE LIVES AND LOOK AT SAFETY 5605 04:32:54,545 --> 04:32:56,480 AND THE ISSUES INCLUDE BUT NOT 5606 04:32:56,480 --> 04:32:58,816 LIMITED TO DIVERSITY OF STUDY 5607 04:32:58,816 --> 04:33:01,118 COHORTS TO MAXIMIZE THE UTILITY 5608 04:33:01,118 --> 04:33:03,054 AND GENERALIZABILITY OF THE 5609 04:33:03,054 --> 04:33:03,287 STUDIES. 5610 04:33:03,287 --> 04:33:07,792 DATA PRIVACY AND RISKS OF 5611 04:33:07,792 --> 04:33:08,893 RE-IDENTIFICATION IN LIGHT OF 5612 04:33:08,893 --> 04:33:10,828 RAPID ADVANCES OF DATA 5613 04:33:10,828 --> 04:33:12,063 TECHNOLOGY AND DATA OWNERSHIP 5614 04:33:12,063 --> 04:33:13,731 AND LONGEVITY AND ACCESSIBILITY 5615 04:33:13,731 --> 04:33:15,032 AND WITH ALL THE CONSIDERATIONS 5616 04:33:15,032 --> 04:33:17,568 IN MIND STRATEGIES FOR MORE 5617 04:33:17,568 --> 04:33:21,138 EFFECTIVE DATA TO MAXIMIZE VALUE 5618 04:33:21,138 --> 04:33:22,940 OF OUR RESEARCH SUBJECTS' 5619 04:33:22,940 --> 04:33:23,274 PARTICIPATE. 5620 04:33:23,274 --> 04:33:27,211 SO ON BEHALF OF THE BRAIN 5621 04:33:27,211 --> 04:33:30,047 INITIATIVE THANK YOU TO THE 5622 04:33:30,047 --> 04:33:31,649 PARTICIPANTS FOR WHAT COULD BE 5623 04:33:31,649 --> 04:33:32,350 THE NEXT EXCITING OPPORTUNITIES 5624 04:33:32,350 --> 04:33:35,019 IN HUMANS TO ALLOW US TO UNRAVEL 5625 04:33:35,019 --> 04:33:38,089 CORE PRINCIPLES OF THE BIOLOGY 5626 04:33:38,089 --> 04:33:39,590 THAT UNDER LIES HUMAN BEHAVIOR 5627 04:33:39,590 --> 04:33:41,792 AND ENCOURAGE YOU TO THINK OF 5628 04:33:41,792 --> 04:33:45,429 BUILDING COLLABORATIONS AN 5629 04:33:45,429 --> 04:33:46,097 CONSORTIA TO LEVERAGE DIVERSE 5630 04:33:46,097 --> 04:33:47,598 EXPERTISE AND THOSE OF THE 5631 04:33:47,598 --> 04:33:49,133 RESEARCH PARTICIPANTS THEMSELVES 5632 04:33:49,133 --> 04:33:51,035 TO PURSUE AND CRATE UNIQUE 5633 04:33:51,035 --> 04:33:55,673 OPPORTUNITIES TO STUDY THE 5634 04:33:55,673 --> 04:33:58,909 LIVING HUMAN BRAIN WITH RAPIDLY 5635 04:33:58,909 --> 04:33:59,410 GROWING TECHNOLOGIES. 5636 04:33:59,410 --> 04:34:00,211 BACK TO CLAYTON. 5637 04:34:00,211 --> 04:34:01,379 >> THANK YOU. 5638 04:34:01,379 --> 04:34:02,880 THIS CONCLUDES OR FORMAL AGENDA 5639 04:34:02,880 --> 04:34:05,082 I WANT TO DOUBLE DOWN AND DIRECT 5640 04:34:05,082 --> 04:34:07,084 EVERYONE TO THE REQUEST FOR 5641 04:34:07,084 --> 04:34:11,188 INFORMATION THAT IS NOW OPEN. 5642 04:34:11,188 --> 04:34:14,525 IT WILL REMAIN OPEN TO AUGUST 1. 5643 04:34:14,525 --> 04:34:15,192 WE'RE INTERESTED IN THE DIVERSE 5644 04:34:15,192 --> 04:34:17,161 PERSPECTIVE BES OF ALL COMMUNITY 5645 04:34:17,161 --> 04:34:18,763 MEMBERS AND STAKEHOLDERS WHO 5646 04:34:18,763 --> 04:34:21,165 HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THE 5647 04:34:21,165 --> 04:34:25,469 OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES FOR 5648 04:34:25,469 --> 04:34:26,270 COORDINATED EFFORTS TO ADVANCE 5649 04:34:26,270 --> 04:34:27,305 THROUGH NEURAL STIMULATION 5650 04:34:27,305 --> 04:34:27,605 RECORDING. 5651 04:34:27,605 --> 04:34:30,941 LASTLY ON BEHALF OF THE NIH 5652 04:34:30,941 --> 04:34:33,244 PLANNING COMMITTEE I WANT TO 5653 04:34:33,244 --> 04:34:35,246 EXTEND A SINCERE THANK YOU TO 5654 04:34:35,246 --> 04:34:36,881 ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE 5655 04:34:36,881 --> 04:34:39,417 WORKSHOP AND OUR WONDERFUL 5656 04:34:39,417 --> 04:34:44,088 CHAIRS AND ANALYSTS AND HAVEN'T 5657 04:34:44,088 --> 04:34:45,990 CONTRACTOR, ROSE LEE&ASSOCIATES 5658 04:34:45,990 --> 04:34:48,392 AND THE FOLKS AT NIH MANAGEMENT 5659 04:34:48,392 --> 04:34:51,262 WHO SET UP OUR SIMULTANEOUS 5660 04:34:51,262 --> 04:34:51,529 VIDEOCAST. 5661 04:34:51,529 --> 04:34:53,297 WE CAN'T EXPRESS ENOUGH 5662 04:34:53,297 --> 04:34:55,066 GRATITUDE FOR THE TIME, ENERGY 5663 04:34:55,066 --> 04:34:56,734 AND BRAIN POWER THAT'S COME 5664 04:34:56,734 --> 04:34:58,202 TOGETHER TO MAKE THE MEETING 5665 04:34:58,202 --> 04:34:58,536 HAPPEN. 5666 04:34:58,536 --> 04:35:00,705 THREW ALL AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO 5667 04:35:00,705 --> 04:35:02,773 LEARNING FROM YOUR RFI 5668 04:35:02,773 --> 04:35:03,140 RESPONSES. 5669 04:35:03,140 --> 04:35:03,207