>> HELLO.
HI, EVERYBODY.
I AM THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF
THE NIH FEDERAL ASIAN PACIFIC
COUNCIL, AND ALSO DIVISION
DIRECTOR AT THE NATIONAL
INSTITUTE ON MINORITY HEALTH AND
HEALTH DISPARITIES.
I WELCOME YOU ALL TO THIS ANNUAL
EVENT OF VIVEK MURTHY
DISTINGUISHED LECTURE SERIES ON
PUBLIC HEALTH LEADERSHIP.
THIS EVENT, WE HAVE IT ANNUALLY,
IS IN CELEBRATION OF THE ASIAN
AMERICAN AND NATIVE HAWAIIAN
PACIFIC ISLANDER HERITAGE MONTH,
AND THIS IS BEING SPONSORED BY
NIH, NIMHD, HHS, HHS OFFICE OF
EQUAL OPPORTUNITY DIVERSITY AND
INCLUSION, AND OUR OTHER SISTER
AGENCIES FROM CDC, HRSA, SAMH
SAMHSA, -- AND MANY OTHERS WHO
HAVE HELPED WITH THIS EVENT.
SO WE KNOW THAT OUR HEALTH OF
OUR DIVERSE POPULATION DEPENDS
ON OUR GREAT PUBLIC HEALTH
LEADERS, SO TODAY'S EVENT IS
REALLY GREAT THAT WE -- FROM THE
AANHPI COMMUNITY, BECAUSE WE
HAVE WITH US OUR U.S. SURGEON
GENERAL, VIVEK MURTHY, AND
DR. HAHRIE HAN, TWO GREAT AANHPI
LEADERS TO INSPIRE US AND OUR
NEXT GENERATIONS.
TO START THIS EVENT IT'S MY
GREATEST PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE
DR. MICHAEL CHIANG, DIRECTOR OF
THE NATIONAL EYE INSTITUTE AT
NIH.
HE'LL BE GIVING US SOME WELCOME
REMARKS TO KICK THIS EVENT OFF.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
LET ME ADD MY WELCOME TO THE
FOURTH VIVEK MURTHY LECTURE
SERIES EVENT.
AS SAID, MY NAME IS MICHAEL
CHIANG, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL
EYE INSTITUTE AT THE NIH AND IT
REALLY MY PRIVILEGE TO MAKE A
FEW INTRODUCTORY REMARKS ON
BEHALF OF ALL OF US AT THE NIH.
THE REASON WE'RE ALL HERE IS
THAT MAY IS ASIAN AMERICAN,
NATIVE HAWAIIAN AND PACIFIC
ISLANDER HERITAGE MONTH, AND
THAT'S A CELEBRATION OF THOSE
COMMUNITIES IN THE U.S., AND
WE'RE PROUD TO BE ABLE TO
PARTICIPATE IN TODAY'S
CELEBRATION AND IT'S REALLY
FITTING THAT WE HAVE TWO
FABULOUS ASIAN AMERICAN LEADERS
WITH US TODAY.
THE GOAL OF THE DISTINGUISHED
LECTURE SERIES IS TO FIRST
RECOGNIZE DR. MURTHY, WHO'S THE
SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED
STATES.
AND OF COURSE TO RECOGNIZE A
PUBLIC HEALTH HEEDER WHOSE
EFFORTS HAVE MADE A REALLY
SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON ADVANCING
PUBLIC HEALTH.
AND TODAY, DR. MURTHY IS
RECOGNIZING DR. HAHRIE HAN,
WHO'S A PROFESSOR AND FOUNDING
DIRECTOR OF THE STAVROS NIARCHOS
FOUNDATION AGORA INSTITUTE AT
JOHNS HOPKINS FOR HER LEADERSHIP
IN FOSTERING SOCIAL CONNECTION
TO ENHANCE HEALTH AND
WELL-BEING.
SO TODAY DRS. MURTHY AND HAN ARE
GOING TO DISCUSS THEIR PERSONAL
REFLECTIONS ON PUBLIC HEALTH
LEADERSHIP, COMBATING SOCIAL
ISOLATION AND LONELINESS AND
ALSO DEVELOPING COMMUNITY
CONNECTIONS TO ADDRESS HEALTH
INEQUITIES.
THIS IS GOING TO BE A GREAT
CONVERSATION AND I LOVE IT
INCLUDES TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE OF
ASIAN DESCENT.
WE HAVE A SUPERB MODERATOR,
DR. MONICA WEBB HOOPER, DEPUTY
DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL
INSTITUTE ON MINORITY HEALTH AND
HEALTH DISPARITIES, NIMHD, AT
THE NIH.
SO DR. WEBB HOOPER, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR DOING THIS.
REALLY EXCITED, AND LET ME TURN
TO YOU, PLEASE.
THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, DR. CHIANG, AND
WELCOME, EVERYONE, I AM REALLY
JUST DELIGHTED AND HONORED TO
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MODERATE
THE FOURTH YEAR OF THIS EVENT.
WE ARE INDEED CELEBRATING ASIAN
AMERICAN, NATIVE HAWAIIAN AND
PACIFIC ISLANDER HERITAGE MONTH,
AND I'VE BEEN REALLY LOOKING
FORWARD TO THIS EVENT AND THIS
CONVERSATION.
THE FORMAT OF THE VIVEK A.
MURTHY DISTINGUISHED LECTURE
SERIES FOR PUBLIC HEALTH
LEADERSHIP IS A VIRTUAL
CONVERSATION OR A FIRESIDE CHAT
RATHER THAN AS THE NAME
SUGGESTS, A LECTURE OR A FORMAL
PRESENTATION.
TODAY WE WILL BE TALKING WITH
THESE TWO DISTINGUISHED
INDIVIDUALS, BENEFITING FROM
THEIR PERSONAL REFLECTION, AND
THEN INCORPORATING QUESTIONS
FROM THE AUDIENCE.
NOW THE AUDIENCE, YOU CAN SUBMIT
QUESTIONS USING THE SEND LIVE
FEEDBACK BUTTON ON THE
VIDEOCAST, AND WE'LL DO OUR BEST
TO INCORPORATE THEM.
SO FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO
INTRODUCE OUR GUESTS BY SHARING
JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE, JUST A
SMALL SELECTION OF THE REALLY
IMPRESSIVE AND IMPACTFUL
CAREERS.
VICE ADMIRAL MURTHY WAS
CONFIRMED BY THE U.S. SENATE TO
SERVE AS THE 21ST SURGEON
GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES.
AS THE NATION'S TOP DOCTOR,
DR. MURTHY HELPS TO ADVANCE THE
HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF ALL
AMERICANS, AND HAS WORKED TO
ADDRESS CRITICAL PUBLIC HEALTH
ISSUES.
HE HAS ISSUED SURGEON GENERAL'S
ADVISORIES ON THE YOUTH MENTAL
HEALTH CRISIS AND SOCIAL MEDIA'S
IMPACT ON YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH,
THE EPIDEMIC OF LONELINESS AND
ISOLATION, AND ALSO ON BURNOUT
IN THE HEALTH WORKER COMMUNITY.
DR. MURTHY ALSO ISSUED A SURGEON
GENERAL'S FRAMEWORK ON MENTAL
HEALTH IN THE WORKPLACE AND HE
IS THE FIRST SURGEON GENERAL TO
HOST A PODCAST.
IT'S CALLED HOUSE CALLS WITH DRE
INVITES GUESTS AND LISTENERS TO
REALLY EXPLORE HOW WE CAN ALL
BUILD MORE CONNECTED AND
MEANINGFUL LIVES.
SO AS VICE ADMIRAL OF THE U.S.
PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE COMMISSION
CORPS, DR. MURTHY OVERSEES MORE
THAN 6,000 DEDICATED PUBLIC
HEALTH OFFICERS, SERVING
UNDERSERVED AND VULNERABLE
POPULATIONS.
DR. MURTHY PREVIOUSLY SERVED AS
THE 19TH SURGEON GENERAL UNDER
PRESIDENT OBAMA.
HE WAS RAISED IN MIAMI AND HE
RECEIVED HIS BACHELOR'S DEGREE
FROM HARVARD, HIS MEDICAL DEGREE
FROM YALE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE,
AND HIS MASTER'S DEGREE IN
BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION FROM THE
YALE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT.
AND TODAY'S HONOREE, DR. HAHRIE
HAN IS THE INAUGURAL DIRECTOR OF
THE STAVROS NIARCHOS FOUNDATION
AGORA INSTITUTE.
SHE IS THE PROFESSOR OF
POLITICAL SCIENCE AND FACULTY
DIRECTOR OF THE P3 RESEARCH LAB
AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY.
SHE IS AN AWARD WINNING AUTHOR
OF FOUR BOOKS AND NUMEROUS
ARTICLES PUBLISHED IN LEADING
SCHOLARLY OUTLETS INCLUDING THE
AMERICAN POLITICAL SCIENCE
REVIEW, THE AMERICAN
SOCIOLOGICAL REVIEW, NATURE
HUMAN BEHAVIOR, PNAS, AND THE
JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL
ASSOCIATION AND ALSO OTHER
OUTLETS.
SHE'S ALSO WRITTEN FOR TOP
OUTLETS SUCH AS "THE NEW YORK
TIMES," "THE WASHINGTON POST,"
AS WELL AS OTHERS.
SHE'S ALSO AN EE LEBTED MEMBER
OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF ARTS
AND SCIENCES.
SHE WAS ALSO NAMED A 2022 SOCIAL
INNOVATION THOUGHT LEADER OF THE
YEAR BY THE WORLD ECONOMIC
FORUM'S SCHWAB FOUNDATION AND
DR. HAN DELIVERED THE
PRESTIGIOUS TANNER LECTURES AT
HARVARD UNIVERSITY IN 2024.
SHE ALSO HAS A NEW BOOK THAT
WILL BE RELEASED, HER FIFTH
BOOK.
IT WILL FOCUS ON FAITH AND RACE
IN AMERICA, WITH A FOCUS ON
EVANGELICAL MEGA CHURCHES, AND
THAT WILL BE PUBLISHED LATER
THIS FALL.
SO DR. MURTHY, IT IS GREAT TO
SEE YOU AGAIN, AND DR. HAN, IT'S
REALLY GREAT TO MEET YOU.
THERE ARE A FEW TOPICS THAT
WE'RE GOING TO COVER TODAY THAT
WILL FIT WITHIN THIS THEME OF
FOSTERING SOCIAL CONNECTION TO
ENHANCE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING.
AND THEN OF COURSE WE'D LIKE TO
HOPEFULLY HAVE A FEW MINUTES FOR
AUDIENCE QUESTIONS.
SO BEFORE I MOVE ANY FURTHER TO
START THE CONVERSATION,
DR. MURTHY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO
SAY A FEW WORDS TO START US OFF?
>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH,
MONICA, FOR THAT KIND
INTRODUCTION, AND TO YOU AND THE
ENTIRE TEAM AT OUR COUNCIL.
I JUST WANT TO THANK THEM FOR
ALL OF THEIR LEADERSHIP IN
MAKING THIS LECTURE POSSIBLE
OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND FOR
MAKING IT ACCESSIBLE TO SO MANY
PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
THIS IS -- HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE
OF MY FAVORITE EVENTS, AND SO
REALLY GLAD THAT WE'RE DOING
THIS AGAIN.
AND I'M SO GLAD IN PARTICULAR
THAT WE'RE DOING THIS WITH
DR. HAHRIE HAN.
HAHRIE HAS BEEN SOMEONE I'VE
ADMIRED FOR MANY, MANY YEARS AND
SOMEONE I'M PRIVILEGED TO CALL,
YOU KNOW, A DEAR FRIEND.
WE MET YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS --
I WAS WORKING ON BUILDING A
HEALTHCARE ADVOCACY EFFORT TO
TRY TO GATHER DOCTORS TOGETHER
AROUND THE COUNTRY TO HELP SHAPE
IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR HEALTHCARE
SYSTEM THAT WOULD HOPEFULLY
BETTER SERVE OUR PATIENTS, BUT I
DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF SKILL
IN KNOWING HOW TO THINK ABOUT
THAT OR HOW TO ORGANIZE THAT,
AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE I WAS
REALLY BLESSED TO MEET ALONG THE
WAY WAS HAHRIE HAN, WHO, WITH
HER SORT OF TRADEMARK KINDNESS
AND EXPERTISE, HELPED ME THINK
THROUGH LIKE WHAT IT WOULD BE
LIKE TO TRULY BUILD A -- AN
EFFECTIVE MOVEMENT, AN ADVOCACY
MOVEMENT FOR BETTER HEALTHCARE.
EVER SINCE I MET HAHRIE, I'VE
SORT OF -- IT WAS CLEAR FROM THE
VERY BEGINNING THAT SHE'S
BRILLIANT AND EXTRAORDINARILY
SHARP AND INSIGHTFUL, YOU'LL
HEAR THAT AND SEE THAT TODAY,
BUT I ALSO FOUND THAT ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT'S UNUSUAL ABOUT
HAHRIE AS FAR AS ACADEMIA IS
CONCERNED IS SHE BRINGS AN
UNUSUAL LEVEL OF ON THE GROUND
EXPERIENCE AS WELL TO HER
ACADEMIC WORK, AND THAT, I THINK
HAS MADE HER EXTRAORDINARILY
EFFECTIVE IN HER WRITING AND IN
HER OVERALL IMPACT ON THE FIELD.
AND FINALLY TO WHAT'S MOST
IMPORTANT TO ME ABOUT HAHRIE IS
JUST THE VALUES, WHERE SHE COMES
FROM.
SHE IS SOMEBODY WHO CARES DEEPLY
ABOUT THE WELL-BEING OF PEOPLE
ACROSS THE BOARD AND ABOUT
LIFTING UP THE WELL-BEING OF
PEOPLE AT SCALE, AND THE WORK
THAT SHE HAS DONE HAS HELPED, I
THINK, STRENGTHEN OUR ABILITY
HOW TO THINK THROUGH HOW TO DO
THAT, OF BUILDING EFFECTIVE
SOCIAL MOVEMENTS.
SHE TO ME IS SOMEBODY WHO THINKS
IS REALLY AT THE INTERSECTION OF
SCIENCE AND SOCIETY AND
HUMANITY, AND SHE BRINGS ALL
THREE OF THOSE THREADS INTO HER
WORK.
SO I'M JUST INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL
TO YOU, HAHRIE, FOR AGREEING TO
DO THIS WITH US TODAY, AND I'M
EAGER FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE A
CHANCE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
SO BACK TO YOU, MONICA.
>> GREAT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SOUNDS LIKE AN IMPORTANT CAREER
THAT YOU'VE HAD THUS FAR,
DR. HAN, AND WE ARE LOOKING
FORWARD TO GETTING TO KNOW MORE
ABOUT YOU.
AND I GUESS I'LL START WITH THE
FIRST QUESTION.
ALONG THESE LINES, YOU'VE HAD
SUCH A ROBUST CAREER IN SOCIAL
SCIENCE AND WE'RE INTERESTED IN
IF YOU COULD SHARE WHAT
MOTIVATED YOU TO PURSUE SOCIAL,
POLITICAL SCIENCE AND SOCIAL
MOVEMENT AS A CAREER AND WITH
THAT, WE'RE INTERESTED IN
WHETHER YOU CAN ARTICULATE ANY
SPECIFIC CHALLENGES THAT YOU
FACED AS A FEMALE PROFESSIONAL
OF ASIAN AMERICAN HERITAGE, AND
ARE THERE ANY LESSONS LEARNED
THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHARE?
>> SURE.
THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION.
BUT LET ME JUST START BY SAYING
HOW HONORED I AM TO BE HERE AND
WHAT'S AN INCREDIBLE
OPPORTUNITY, OF COURSE, TO BE IN
CONVERSATION WITH DR. MURTHY,
BUT ALSO HOW GRATEFUL I AM TO
THE ENTIRE TEAM FOR INVITING ME
TO DO THIS AND FOR LETTING ME BE
IN CONVERSATION WITH YOU.
SO I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO
OUR WHOLE CONVERSATION.
BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION,
WHEN I START TO THINK ABOUT HOW
I GOT INTO THIS WORK, I ALWAYS
START BY THINKING ABOUT MY
GRANDPARENTS.
MY GRANDPARENT WERE REFUGEES
FROM NORTH KOREA TO SOUTH KOREA,
AND YOU KNOW, MY GRANDFATHER
MOVED SOUTH.
THE COUNTRY WAS SPLIT IN TWO
WITHOUT THEM BEING ABLE TO
ANTICIPATE THAT WOULD HAPPEN, SO
MY GRANDFATHER LOST TOUCH WITH
HIS MOTHER BECAUSE OF THAT, AND
I THINK BECAUSE OF THAT, WE
ALWAYS GREW UP WITH THE SENSE
FROM MY GRANDPARENTS ABOUT HOW
FRAGILE THE THINGS THAT WE HOLD
SACRED CAN BE, AND HOW IMPORTANT
IT IS FOR US TO TRY TO PROTECT
THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY LOVE.
BUT THEN MY FATHER AND MY
PARENTS GREW UP IN KOREA MOSTLY,
AND THEN EMIGRATED TO THE UNITED
STATES WHERE I WAS BORN SO I WAS
BORN IN THE U.S.
THE OTHER PIECE OF THAT FAMILY
STORY THAT REALLY SHAPED MY
UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORLD IS
THE FACT OF JUST BEING A CHILD
OF IMMIGRANTS, AND I GREW UP
MOSTLY IN HOUSTON, TEXAS AND
LOVED AND STILL LOVE HOUSTON.
MY PARENTS STILL LIVE THERE.
BUT I THINK GROWING UP AS A
CHILD OF IMMIGRANTS, NOT BECAUSE
ANYONE NECESSARILY SAID THE
WORDS TO ME BUT JUST IT WAS KIND
OF LIKE IN THE AIR THAT WE
BREATHE WAS THIS IDEA OF
TRANSFORMATION, THAT PART OF
WHAT WE DO AS HUMANS IS TRY TO
TRANSFORM OURSELVES, TRANSFORM
OUR COMMUNITIES, TRANSFORM THE
WORLD AROUND US.
IT'S NOT ONLY POSSIBLE BUT IT
JUST PART OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE
HUMAN IN THIS WORLD.
AND SO THAT'S -- I THINK I GREW
UP WITH BOTH OF THOSE IDEAS IN
KIND OF THE BACKGROUND OF MY
LIFE.
BUT DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW
TO CHANNEL IT INTO ANYTHING
UNTIL I WENT TO COLLEGE, AND
THROUGH TOTAL HAPPENSTANCE GOT
INVOLVED IN ACTIVISM, SOCIAL
MOVEMENTS, ALL THESE DIFFERENT
KIND OF THINGS AND I THINK IT
REALLY RESONATED WITH ME BECAUSE
ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT
IS REALLY UNIQUE ABOUT MOVEMENTS
IS THAT THEY WORK BY
TRANSFORMING PEOPLE, THAT THEY
WORK NOT BY TRYING TO SELL
PEOPLE PRODUCTS THAT THEY
ALREADY WANT OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT, BUT THEY'RE TRYING TO SORT
OF TRANSFORM PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO
BECOME ARCHITECTS OF THEIR OWN
FUTURE.
AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK I REALLY
LOVED ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE OF
BEING INVOLVED IN ACTIVISM IN
COLLEGE, AND REALLY
UNDERSTANDING FOR THE FIRST TIME
WHAT IT MEANT TO BE A PERSON
ACTING WITH DIGNITY IN THE
PUBLIC SPHERE, AND SO I THINK
ONE WAY TO KIND OF CHARACTERIZE
MY CAREER IS AFTER HAVING HAD
THAT EXPERIENCE MYSELF, I SPENT
THE REST OF MY CAREER TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT MADE THAT
EXPERIENCE SO INTOXICATING AND
SO MAGICAL, AND THEN HOW DO WE
RE-CREATE IT FOR OTHER PEOPLE,
HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE
OF ALL BACKGROUNDS AND ALL KINDS
HAVE THAT ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ABLE TO BE A
PERSON WHO ACTS WITH DIGNITY,
WHO CAN BE AN ARCHITECT OF THEIR
OWN FUTURE, WHO CAN SORT OF
PROMOTE THEIR OWN WELL-BEING AND
THE WELL-BEING OF THE PEOPLE
THAT THEY LOVE.
AND SO THAT'S A LOT OF THE
RESEARCH THAT I DO AND SO I
THINK THAT CERTAINLY BEING AN
ASIAN WOMAN HAS DEFINITELY
SHAPED THAT CAREER IN PART JUST
BECAUSE IT SHAPES WHO I AM, THE
VALUES AND PRINCIPLES I BRING TO
THIS WORK.
I THINK ANY OF US DOING THIS
KIND OF WORK IN THE PUBLIC
SPHERE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SET
OF PRINCIPLES TO HELP YOU
NAVIGATE ALL THE UNCERTAINTY
THAT'S OUT THERE.
SO I THINK JUST HAVING THAT
COMPASS FROM MY PARENTS AND
GRANDPARENTS REALLY SHAPED THE
WAY IN WHICH I COME TO THIS WORK
AND THE WAY IN WHICH I WANT TO
PARTNER WITH THE DIFFERENT
COMMUNITIES WE TRY TO WORK WITH
IN OUR RESEARCH.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I REALLY CAN APPRECIATE THAT
THREAD WHEN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR
FAMILY BACKGROUND AND SOME OF
THE THINGS THAT YOU SHARED IN
TERMS OF THE IDEA OF
TRANSFORMATION AND HOW FOR YOU,
THAT SEEMS TO BE A THREAD THAT
STARTED FROM YOUR CHILD
EXPERIENCE, CARRYING THAT
FORWARD INTO YOUR WORK, AND I
THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO
THINK ABOUT THE SOCIAL
MOVEMENTS.
WE SEE THEM HAPPENING ALL AROUND
US, BUT I THINK THAT THAT IS
IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT IT AS
ANOTHER FORM OF HELPING PEOPLE
TRANSFORM.
SO I CAN REALLY APPRECIATE THAT,
THAT'S REALLY FANTASTIC.
WE'RE GOING TO TALK A BIT
ABOUT -- MY NEXT SET OF
QUESTIONS IS REALLY JUST FOCUSED
ON THE THEME FOR THIS YEAR,
WHICH AGAIN IS ON FOSTERING
SOCIAL CONNECTION TO ENHANCE
HEALTH AND WELL-BEING.
AND I SUPPOSE SOME FORM OF
WEALTH.
AND YOU KNOW, DR. MURTHY, YOU'VE
FOCUSED A LOT ON THIS, AND SO I
WANT TO POINT TO SOME RESEARCH
AND SOME RECENT FINDINGS TO ASK
FOR YOUR ELABORATION.
THE SUBSTANCE USE AND MENTAL
HEALTH SERVICE ADMINISTRATION IN
2022 CONDUCTED A NATIONAL SURVEY
ON DRUG USE AND HEALTH.
AND AMONG THE FINDINGS WAS THAT
ASIAN ADULTS WITH A MENTAL
ILLNESS WERE 55% LESS LIKELY TO
RECEIVE TREATMENT COMPARED WITH
RESPONDENTS WHO SELF-IDENTIFIED
AS WHITE OR OF MULTIPLE RACIAL
BACKGROUNDS.
SO I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR
THOUGHT ON THIS FINDING.
FOR EXAMPLE, IS THIS RELATED TO
SYSTEMIC STRUCTURAL FACTORS,
ACCESS, OR CULTURAL FACTORS
IMPACTING PERCEPTIONS OF MENTAL
HEALTH AND WELL-BEING, PERHAPS?
>> WELL, I DO THINK IT'S -- AND
PLEASE CALL ME VIVEK, I'M VERY
INFORMAL, SO YOU CAN JUST CALL
ME BY MY FIRST NAME.
I STILL THINK OF DR. MURTHY AS
MY FATHER SO I'M THINKING ABOUT
HIM WHENEVER PEOPLE USE THAT
WORD.
BUT I THINK THERE ARE ACTUALLY A
FEW INTERESTING THINGS MIND
THAT, THIS DISPARITY THAT YOU
MENTION.
I THINK FIRST OF ALL IT'S REALLY
STRIKING THAT ASIAN AMERICANS
ARE SO MUCH LESS LIKELY TO
RECEIVE TREATMENT, AND I THINK
AT LEAST A FEW OF THE FACTORS I
WOULD CONSIDER IS THAT NUMBER
ONE, I THINK MANY OF US FROM THE
COMMUNITY KNOW THAT WE STILL
HAVE A LOT OF CULTURAL STIGMA
AROUND TALKING ABOUT MENTAL
ILLNESS.
THE SECOND THING TO RECOGNIZE IS
THAT I THINK MANY PEOPLE IN THE
COMMUNITY KNOW, IT'S NOT A
MONOLITHIC COMMUNITY, THERE ARE
MANY PARTS OF THE ASIAN AMERICAN
COMMUNITY WHICH ARE, SO MAY NOT
BE SO WELL OFF, MAY BE FROM A
LOWER SOCIOECONOMIC SORT OF
STATUS, AND MAY NOT -- MAY HAVE
A LOT OF THE BARRIERS THAT OTHER
COMMUNITIES FACE, YOU KNOW, IN
LOWER SES COMMUNITIES IN TERMS
OF NOT HAVING ACCESS TO CARE OR
HAVING MORE OBSTACLES TO
ACTUALLY GETTING TO A CLINIC,
NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD SOME OF
THE CHARGES THAT MAY COME WITH
SEEKING OUT REGULAR CARE.
BUT I THINK ON TOP OF ALL OF
THAT, YOU HAVE TO ADD IN
LANGUAGE BARRIERS, WHICH I THINK
ARE REAL, AND OFTEN PREVENT
PEOPLE NOT JUST FROM BEING ABLE
TO GET CARE BUT FROM EVEN ASKING
FOR HELP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
AND THEN FINALLY, I THINK FROM A
CULTURAL PERSPECTIVE, I THINK
THE MORE WE UNDERSTAND ABOUT
THINGS LIKE ANXIETY AND
DEPRESSION, WE REALIZE THAT
THESE SHOW UP A LITTLE
DIFFERENTLY IN DIFFERENT
CULTURAL CONTEXTS.
SO THE WAY THAT -- LIKE I THINK
ABOUT MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY, FOR
EXAMPLE, OF MY PARENTS'
GENERATION, WHO HAVE STRUGGLED
WITH DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY, AND
I REALIZE THAT THE SYMPTOMS WERE
A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT
I HAD LEARNED IN MEDICAL SCHOOL.
AGAIN YOU'D HAVE TO KNOW SORT OF
THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO ASK, AND
THEY MAY NOT, FOR EXAMPLE,
HAVE -- ESPECIALLY WHEN I THINK
ABOUT MY PARENTS' GENERATION WHO
CAME HERE AS IMMIGRANTS AND WERE
VERY DRIVEN TO DO THEIR WORK AND
FELT LIKE THEY NEEDED TO DO THAT
FOR THE SURVIVAL OF THEIR
FAMILIES, ET CETERA, SO WHEN
THEY WERE STRUGGLING WITH
DEPRESSION IT DIDN'T ALWAYS SHOW
UP AS A LACK OF INTEREST IN
THEIR WORK.
IF YOU ASKED THEM THAT QUESTION,
FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE ARE YOU
FEELING LESS INTERESTED IN WORK
OR LESS INCLINED TO GO TO WORK,
MY PARENTS WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND
THAT QUESTION.
LIKE THEY WOULDN'T QUITE KNOW
WHAT YOU MEANT.
THEY WOULD SAY, WELL, OF COURSE
WE WOULD GO TO WORK.
THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.
YOU KNOW, IT'S SORT OF ENGRAINED
IN THEM CULTURALLY.
SO I DO THINK UNDERSTANDING THAT
CULTURAL CONTEXT MATTERS WHEN
YOU'RE A CLINICIAN, AND YOU'RE
SCREENING SOMEBODY.
IT ALSO MATTERS IF YOU'RE A
FRIEND, YOU KNOW, A WELL WISHER
WHO MAY HAVE A NEIGHBOR, A BUDDY
IN THE AAPI COMMUNITY.
IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE
THAT THESE SYMPTOMS PRESENT A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY GIVEN
DIFFERENT CULTURAL CONTEXTS.
>> THANK YOU FOR THAT VERY
IMPORTANT -- I STRONGLY SUGGEST
TO OUR AUDIENCE THAT THEY READ
AND REFERENCE THE 2023 U.S.
SURGEON GENERAL'S ADVISORY ON
THE HEALING EFFECTS OF SOCIAL
CONNECTION AND COMMUNITY.
IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT SEMINAL
PIECE OF WORK.
SO ONE OF THE DATA POINTS IN
THAT ADVISORY IS THAT ACROSS
STUDIES, THE DATA INDICATE THAT
SOCIAL CONNECTIONS INCREASE
SURVIVAL ODDS BY 50%.
AND WE KNOW THAT MANY
INDIVIDUALS IN THE U.S. FACE
SOCIAL ISOLATION BECAUSE FOR
EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE CHALLENGES
BUILDING SOCIAL CONNECTIONS AND
MAINTAINING THEM, AND THERE'S A
QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE THAT
VERY MUCH RELATES TO THIS TOPIC.
SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN
INCORPORATE IT.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS VERY
SERIOUS ISSUE OF SOCIAL
ISOLATION AND CONNECTEDNESS, A
QUESTION THAT COMES IN FROM THE
AUDIENCE IS, WHAT TYPES OF
INTERVENTIONS ARE BEING
CONDUCTED OR PROMOTED IN ORDER
TO COMBAT SOCIAL ISOLATION AND
LONELINESS?
AND HOW DO WE INTERVENE AMONGST
A RANGE OF AGES, CULTURES, AND
SOCIAL NORMS?
AND THAT'S A QUESTION FOR VIVEK
TO START.
>> TO ADDRESS LONELINESS AND
ISOLATION, I THINK THERE ARE A
NUMBER OF PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE
SEEING BUILD AND DEVELOP AROUND
THE COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY OVER THE
LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
BUT THERE'S CERTAINLY NEED FOR A
LOT MORE.
I'LL SAY ON A POLICY LEVEL, THAT
WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS WE'VE SEEN A
GROWING NUMBER OF FEDERAL LEDGE
LEGISLATORS AS WELL AS STATE
LEGISLATORS START TO PUT FORWARD
BILLS AND MEASURES THAT WOULD
CREATE REAL TANGIBLE INVESTMENTS
IN BOTH MEASURING AND
UNDERSTANDING LONELINESS,
INVESTING RESEARCH, BUT ALSO IN
SUPPORTING COMMUNITY PROGRAMS
THAT WILL HELP TO BRING
COMMUNITY MEMBERS TOGETHER TO
CULTIVATE HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS.
AT A MORE COMMUNITY LEVEL, WHAT
WE'RE SEEING IS THAT THERE ARE
MORE SCHOOLS THAT ARE
RECOGNIZING THAT EQUIPPING YOUNG
PEOPLE WITH THE TOOLS TO
UNDERSTAND THEIR EMOTIONS, TO
MANAGE THEIR EMOTIONS, TO
UNDERSTAND THE EMOTIONS OF OTHER
PEOPLE AND BUILD HEALTHY
RELATIONSHIPS, THE PROGRAMS TO
DO THIS, INCLUDING SOCIAL
EMOTIONAL LEARNING PROGRAMS,
THESE AREN'T LUXURIES ANYMORE.
THEY'RE BECOMING NECESSITIES.
AND ESPECIALLY AS WE THINK ABOUT
A WORLD IN WHICH INCREASINGLY
YOUNG PEOPLE ARE ONLINE AND
RELATIONSHIPS ARE SHIFTED ONLINE
FROM WHAT USED TO BE IN-PERSON
RELATIONSHIPS, WHEN WE THINK
ABOUT THE CHALLENGE OF THE
PANDEMIC AND HOW THAT FIRST YEAR
IN PARTICULAR, WHEN THERE WAS A
SIGNIFICANT SEPARATION AND
ISOLATION AMONG PEOPLE, THAT
REALLY IMPACTED THE SOCIAL
DEVELOPMENT OF MANY CHILDREN,
AND GIVEN THOSE FACTORS IN
PARTICULAR, WE CAN'T JUST ASSUME
THAT YOUNG PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
GROW UP WITH A STRONG SKILLSET
WHEN IT COMES TO NAVIGATING
RELATIONSHIPS, BUILDING THEM,
MAINTAINING THEM, AND
NEGOTIATING CONFLICT.
AND SO THESE KIND OF PROGRAMS
WHICH WE'RE SEEING MORE AND MORE
IN SCHOOLS, I THINK ARE REALLY
IMPORTANT.
THE LAST COUPLE THINGS I'LL
MENTION IS WE'RE ALSO SEEING
STUDENTS THEMSELVES STEP UP TO
BUILD PROGRAMS IN THEIR
COMMUNITIES THAT HELP BRING EACH
OTHER TOGETHER.
I THINK ABOUT THE -- DIFFERENCES
PROGRAM THAT DPAN IN MARIN
COUNTY, SAN FRANCISCO, HAS NOW
SPREAD TO OVER 10,000 SCHOOLS,
WHICH ESSENTIALLY ENTAILS HIGH
SCHOOL STUDENTS MENTORING MIDDLE
SCHOOL STUDENTS AS THOSE
STUDENTS THEN SEEK TO BRING IN
YOUNG MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO
ARE LONELY OR ISOLATED INTO A
FOLD, INTO A COMMUNITY.
THAT'S A VERY POWERFUL WAY THAT
YOU CANNOT ONLY ADDRESS
LONELINESS, BUT DO IT IN A WAY
THAT EMPOWERS YOUNG PEOPLE.
BUT THERE ARE ALSO OTHER
MOVEMENTS AS WELL.
THERE'S A GROUP CALLED THE
LOGOFF MOVEMENT WHICH WAS
STARTED BY STUDENTS WHICH IS
ACTUALLY WORKING TO HELP YOUNG
PEOPLE MANAGE THEIR USE OF
SOCIAL MEDIA SO THEY CAN
ACTUALLY BUILD IN PERSON HEALTHY
RELATIONSHIPS MORE READILY, AND
MANY OF THEM ARE ABLE TO DO.
SO LIKE THIS, WE ARE SEEING MORE
AND MORE PROGRAMS CROP UP,
WHETHER THEY'RE THE ONES I
MENTIONED, AND EVEN
WORKPLACE-BASED PROGRAMS WHERE
MANAGERS AND WORKPLACES ARE
REALIZING THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE
MORE CONNECTED TO ONE ANOTHER,
IT ACTUALLY INCREASES AND
IMPROVES THEIR CREATIVITY, THEIR
PRODUCTIVITY, THEIR ENGAGEMENT
IN THE WORKPLACE, SO WHILE ALL
THIS IS VERY PROMISING, ONE OF
MY HOPES LAST YEAR WHEN WE
ISSUED THE ADVISORY IS THAT WE
COULD TAKE A MORE SYSTEMATIC
APPROACH TO THIS WORK, THAT WE
COULD TRY TO RESET WHAT THE NORM
SHOULD BE.
SO JUST LIKE THE NORM IN SCHOOL
IS YOU'D THINK WELL, A CHILD
SHOULD LEARN HOW TO DO BASIC
MATH AND READ AND WRITE IN
SCHOOL, MY HOPE IS THAT OVER
TIME, WE CAN SHIFT NORMS IN
WORKPLACES AND SCHOOLS SUCH THAT
BUILDING A SOCIAL CONNECTION AND
THE SKILLS TO CREATE IT BECOMES
PART OF THE NORM AND EDUCATION
AND AT WORK.
>> DR. HAN, I'M INTERESTED IN IF
YOU COULD OPINE A BIT, THINKING
ABOUT HOW SOCIAL CONNECTIONS AND
ISOLATION OR JUST OVERALL
EMOTIONAL WELL-BEING IN THAT
SENSE, HOW THAT CONNECTS TO YOUR
WORK WITH SOCIAL MOVEMENTS.
DO YOU SEE THAT THERE'S A ROLE
FOR SOCIAL MOVEMENTS IN HELPING
PEOPLE DEVELOP -- ESPECIALLY
YOUNG PEOPLE, DEVELOPING
MEANINGFUL SOCIAL CONNECTIONS?
>> YEAH.
DEFINITELY.
I CAN DEFINITELY OPINE ABOUT
LOTS OF THINGS, INCLUDING THIS.
AND SO YEAH, JUST TO BUILD ON
WHAT VIVEK WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW,
I THINK AS A SOCIAL SCIENTIST, I
JUST WANT TO START BY THINKING
ABOUT WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF
SOCIAL CONNECTIONS THAT WE WANT
PEOPLE TO CREATE, AND THERE'S A
DISTINCTION THAT SOCIAL
PSYCHOLOGISTS MAKE BETWEEN
SOCIAL INTERACTIONS AND SOCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS.
AND SO I GO THROUGH MY DAY AND I
HAVE INTERACTIONS WITH LOTS OF
DIFFERENT KINDS OF PEOPLE,
ONLINE, I READ A POST, I MIGHT
"LIKE" IT, I MIGHT TALK TO THE
CHECKER AT THE GROCERY STORE,
THINGS LIKE THAT.
THOSE ARE ALL SOCIAL
INTERACTIONS, BUT A RELATIONSHIP
IS DISTINCT FROM AN INTERACTION
HAVE AN EXPECTATION FOR A SHARD
FUTURE, FOR SOMETHING THAT IS
ONGOING, AND THAT'S WHAT
DIFFERENTIATES A RELATIONSHIP
FROM AN INTERACTION.
SO OFTEN WHEN WE THINK ABOUT
LONELINESS, WHAT WE'RE TRY DOG
IS HELP PEOPLE BUILD SOCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS BECAUSE WE LIVE IN
A WORLD RIGHT NOW WHERE PEOPLE
TEND TO HAVE LOTS OF
INTERACTIONS BUT WE SEE THAT
PEOPLE HAVE FEWER RELATIONSHIPS.
AND THEN SOCIOLOGISTS ALSO MAKE
A DISTINCTION THEN BETWEEN
TRANSACTIONAL RELATIONSHIPS AND
WHAT WE MIGHT CALL DIFFERENT
KINDS OF RELATIONSHIPS.
SO A TRANSACTIONAL RELATIONSHIP
IS A RELATIONSHIP WHERE BOTH
PEOPLE HAVE AN EXPECTATION FOR A
SHARED FUTURE, BUT EVERYONE IS
TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR
SELF-INTEREST.
SO THIS MIGHT BE THE KIND OF
RELATIONSHIP I HAVE WITH MY
MECHANIC.
I GO TO THE SAME MECHANIC, WE
HAVE EXPECTATION FOR SHARED
FUTURE, WE BOTH -- BUT WE'RE
BOTH TRYING TO PROTECT OUR
SELF-INTEREST.
I WANT TO GET MY CAR FIXED FOR
AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE AND I WANTS
TO MAKE MONEY.
SO THAT'S A TRANSACTION NAAL
RELATIONSHIP.
THE KIND THAT GETS PEOPLE A
SENSE OF FULFILLMENT, BELONGING,
TEND TO BE WHAT WE CALL SOCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS, WHICH MEANS THAT
PEOPLE PUT INTO THINGS WITHOUT
KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE
GOING TO GET BACK.
SO I HAVE A SOCIAL RELATIONSHIP
WITH MY COLLEGE ROOMMATE, IN THE
SENSE THAT IF SHE NEEDS
SOMETHING, THEN I GIVE THINGS TO
HER WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT
THAT TRANSACTION IS GOING TO BE
IN THE PAST.
AND SO IN A LOT OF THE WORK THAT
WE DO, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE
KIND OF SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS WE
WANT PEOPLE TO CONSTRUCT, I LIKE
TO THINK ABOUT IT AS SIMILAR TO
THE WAVY VEK WAS DESCRIBING IT,
WHAT I THINK OF AS LIKE A
SUPPLY-SIDE PROBLEM.
SO IT'S NOT JUST THAT PEOPLE ARE
MORE ISOLATED, THINGS LIKE THAT,
ALL OF WHICH IS TRUE, BUT WHAT
IS -- THE QUESTION WE WANT TO
ASK IS WHAT IS THE RANGE OF
OPPORTUNITIES THAT PEOPLE ARE
EXPOSED TO THROUGH WHICH THEY
CAN BUILD THE KIND OF SOCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE KNOW HELP
PEOPLE FEEL CONNECTED TO EACH
OTHER.
IF WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE MOST
OF THE PEOPLE LIVE THEIR LIVES
ONLINE AND IN SETTINGS THAT
PROMOTE INTERACTIONS MORE THAN
RELATIONSHIPS OR THAT PEOPLE
ONLY HAVE RELATIONSHIP WITH
PEOPLE WITH WHOM THEY ARE
ENGAGED IN SOME KIND OF
TRANSACTION, THEN YOU HAVE A
SOCIETY OF PEOPLE THAT FEEL
REALLY LONELY, SO THE QUESTION
IN A WAY IS, EVEN AS WE THINK
BEYOND CHILDHOOD INTO ADULTHOOD,
WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF SETTINGS
THROUGH WHICH PEOPLE BUILD THOSE
KINDS OF ONGOING SOCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS THAT HUMANS NEED
SO IN THE WORK I DO, WE THINK A
LOT OF THE KIND OF CIVIC
INFRASTRUCTURE, PLACES WHERE
PEOPLE GO, FAITH COMMUNITIES,
HOBBY ORGANIZATIONS,
RECREATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS,
PLACES WHERE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE
TO MEET OTHER PEOPLE WHERE
YOU'RE NOT JUST ENGAGED IN A
TRANSACTION BUT AN ONGOING KIND
OF SOCIAL RELATIONSHIP.
AND WE KNOW THAT THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE IS REALLY -- HAS
REALLY DECAYED IN THE PAST, YOU
KNOW, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN DECADES
IN AMERICAN LIFE, AND PART OF
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS NOT
ONLY CHANGE PEOPLE'S BEHAVIORS
BUT ALSO KIND OF REBUILD THAT
KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
>> THANK YOU.
THAT'S GREAT.
THERE'S A QUESTION THAT'S COME
IN FROM THE AUDIENCE THAT I WILL
INCORPORATE, AND THIS IS ONE OF
OUR AUDIENCE MEMBERS WHO'S
REALLY APPRECIATING, VIVEK, SOME
OF YOUR EXAMPLES EARLIER, SO I
WANT TO MAKE SURE WE INCORPORATE
IT.
AND THE QUESTION IS, WHAT
CONSIDERATIONS IN INTERVENTIONS,
POLICY AND CULTURALLY COMPETENT
PRACTICES ARE ESPECIALLY
IMPORTANT FOR SUPPORTING THE
SOCIAL CONNECTION SPECIFICALLY
OF ASIAN AMERICANS, AND ALSO
WHAT WOULD CULTURALLY COMPETENT
INTERVENTIONS OR POLICY LOOK
LIKE?
>> VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, AND
I THINK A FEW CONSIDERATIONS I
THINK ARE CRITICAL.
ONE IS WHEN YOU'RE DESIGNING
THESE INTERVENTIONS, I THINK
IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO SO IN
PARTNERSHIP WITH MEMBERS OF THE
COMMUNITY BECAUSE CULTURAL
CONTEXT REALLY MATTERS, AND THEN
THE SECOND, BEING ABLE TO BUILD
REAL EVALUATION INTO THESE
INTERVENTIONS FROM THE GET-GO IS
REALLY ESSENTIAL.
THERE ARE A LOT OF WELL-INTENDED
INTERVENTIONS THAT MAY OR MAY
NOT MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE OR MAY
MAKE A SHORT-TERM DIFFERENCE BUT
NOT A SUSTAINABLE DIFFERENCE,
AND BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND
WHICH INTERVENTIONS WORK AND
DON'T IS CRITICAL FOR LARGER
POLICY INVESTMENTS.
AND I THINK THAT THE PIECE THAT
HAHRIE WAS TOUCHING ON I THINK
IS REALLY IMPORTANT, JUST TO
RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE
DIFFERENT TYPES OF RELATIONSHIPS
THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD
HERE.
AND YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY
DIFFERENT WAYS THAT PEOPLE HAVE
SORT OF CARVED OUT THE KIND OF
RELATIONSHIPS THAT MATTER AND
THEY ALL HAVE DIFFERENT SORT OF
MERIT TO THEM.
ONE OF THE WAYS THAT I TRY TO
THINK ABOUT THIS VERY SIMPLY IS
THAT WE HAVE -- YOU KNOW, AS
HAHRIE MENTIONED, WA WE'VE GOT
TRANSACTION NAM RELATIONSHIPS,
THE PERSON WE'RE CROSSING PATHS
WITH ON THE SIDEWALK WHEN WE'RE
WALKING IN TO WORK, AND THEN WE
HAVE PEOPLE WHO WE RELY ON IN A
DEEP WAY, YOU KNOW, AS
CONFIDANTS, AS INTIMATE
PARTNERS, AS CLOSE FRIENDS.
ALL OF THOSE REALLY MATTER, AND
I THINK THE PANDEMIC WAS
INTERESTING BECAUSE IT WAS AN
EXPERIENCE I THINK THAT
HIGHLIGHTED FOR MANY OF US NOT
JUST HOW MUCH WE NEED SOCIAL
CONNECTION, BUT HOW EVEN THE
KIND OF LOOSE TIES, IF YOU WILL,
OR WHAT WE THINK OF AS CURSORY
INTERACTIONS, WITH SOMEBODY AT A
COFFEE SHOP OR SOMEBODY ON THE
STREET, HOW MUCH DO THOSE
ACTUALLY MATTER?
I REMEMBER THINKING TO MYSELF
MANY TIMES DURING THE PANDEMIC,
I WISH I COULD JUST GO TO A
COFFEE SHOP AND JUST BE THERE
WITH OTHER PEOPLE, EVEN IF I
DIDN'T REALLY KNOW THEM.
THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THE
PRESENCE OF OTHERS THAT REALLY
MATTERS.
BUT I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO
DESIGNING INTERVENTIONS,
UNDERSTANDING HOW WE'RE
DESIGNING FOR THOSE DIFFERENT
TYPES OF RELATIONSHIPS, THAT
MATTERS TOO.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE TRYING
TO CREATE MORE GENERAL
ENGAGEMENT AND INTERACTION, SO
PEOPLE SEE EACH OTHER, THEY FEEL
THEY'RE PART OF A COMMUNITY AS
OPPOSED TO SITTING INSIDE THEIR
HOMES, DOING EMAIL, STREAMING
CONTENT AND GETTING GROCERIES
DELIVERED, THEN YOU MAY WANT TO
DESIGN A COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF
LIKE -- IN TERMS OF URBAN DESIGN
OR IN RURAL DESIGN, YOU MAY WANT
TO DESIGN A COMMUNITY SO THAT
THERE ARE MORE COMMON WALKWAYS
SO THAT YOU'RE MIXING COMMERCIAL
AND RESIDENTIAL SPACES TOGETHER,
SO THERE ARE PARKS, THERE'S
WATER AND OTHER SPACES THAT WILL
COMPEL PEOPLE TO MORE READILY
GATHER.
VERSUS IF YOU'RE TRYING TO THINK
HOW DO WE ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE TO
CULTIVATE DEEP, MEANINGFUL
RELATIONSHIPS, THAT'S A
DIFFERENT TYPE OF THOUGHT
PROCESS THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO,
AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
ARE THE BARRIERS TO DOING THAT
RIGHT NOW.
I'LL GIVE YOU JUST ONE EXAMPLE,
I HAD JUST FINISHED A COLLEGE
TOUR, THE WAY WE WERE DOING
BASICALLY FOCUS ON THE ISSUE OF
LONELINESS AND ISOLATION, GOING
TO DIFFERENT CAMPUSES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY.
I'LL TELL YOU PARENTHETICALLY
THAT THESE WERE -- OF ALL THE
EVENTS I'VE DONE OVER TWO TERMS
AS SURGEON GENERAL, IT WAS THE
MOST DEMANDING ENGAGEMENTS OF
ANY OTHER EVENT WE'VE DONE AND I
THINK IT'S BECAUSE OF HOW DEEPLY
AFFECTED YOUNG PEOPLE ARE IN
ISOLATION, BUT WHEN YOU ASK THEM
WHAT IS THE BARRIER TO REALLY
BUILDING THE KIND OF TRUSTED
RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE WHO --
WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE THAT
PERSON'S GOT MY BACK, I CAN GO
TO THAT PERSON IN A CRISIS, THAT
PERSON IS GOING TO SUPPORT ME
AND HELP ME WHEN I'M HAVING A
HARD TIME, IT TURNS OUT THAT
THERE ARE A FEW CHALLENGES THEY
TALK ABOUT.
THEY TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT
THEIR EXPERIENCE OF SOCIAL
MEDIA, WHILE IT'S COMMON, THAT
IT OFTEN DOESN'T LEAD THEM TO
BUILD THOSE KIND OF
RELATIONSHIPS, IT ALLOWS THEM TO
STAY IN TOUCH WITH A LOT OF
PEOPLE TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT'S
GOING ON IN PEOPLE'S LIVES, BE
COGNIZANT OF ACTIVITIES, TO GET
KNEWS IN WAYS THAT MAYBE THEY
OTHERWISE WOULDN'T BUT IT'S
HELPING THEM BUILD THOSE
RELATIONSHIPS, THE FLIP IS
ACTUALLY TRUE, THEY FIND
THEMSELVES COMPARING THEMSELVES
TO OTHER PEOPLE ALL THE TIME AND
WHEN YOUR SELF-ESTEEM ERODES,
YOUR CONFIDENCE IN GOING OUT AND
STARTING CONVERSATIONS WITH
OTHER PEOPLE THAT, DIMINISHES.
THE OTHER THING THEY TELL US IS
EVEN THIS BASIC SKILLSET FOR
BEING ABLE TO GO UP TO SOMEBODY,
A NEW STUDENT IN A CAFETERIA,
AND HAVE A CONVERSATION, OR
BEING ABLE TO HAVE A NEW
ROOMMATE, FOR EXAMPLE, FRESHMAN
YEAR, AND NEGOTIATE THINGS LIKE
HEY, I GET UP EARLY, I GET UP
LATE, HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THAT,
OR I'M MESSY, YOU'RE NEAT, I
LIKE TO HAVE VISITORS OVER, YOU
DON'T.
THESE ARE OFTEN CRITICAL FOR
BUILDING FRIENDSHIPS.
WE THINK ABOUT MANY PEOPLE, WHEN
THEY WENT TO COLLEGE, SOME OF
THEIR ROOMMATES -- THEY BECAME
SOME OF THEIR CLOSEST FRIENDS.
MY BEST FRIEND TODAY WAS A
STRANGER I MET AT ORIENTATION
WEEK IN THE DINING HALL AT THE
FSH MAN UNION, WHERE EVERYONE
ATE.
SO WHAT YOU REALIZE WHEN YOU
TALK TO YOUNG PEOPLE IS THAT THE
SKILLS AND COMFORT WITH THOSE
KIND OF INTERACTIONS HAS
ACTUALLY DIMINISHED AS WELL.
SO IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A SORT
OF MORE INTIMATE CONNECTIONS AND
FRIENDSHIPS, YOU HAVE TO THINK
HOW DO I DESIGN INTERVENTIONS
THAT BOTH EQUIP YOUNG PEOPLE
WITH THAT, THAT THEY CAN
ACTUALLY INTERACT IN PERSON,
WHEREAS CURRENTLY, MORE AND MORE
OF THEIR INTERACTION IS
HAPPENING ONLINE, SO ANYWAY,
THOSE ARE A FEW CONSIDERATIONS I
WOULD KEEP IN MIND OF THE MANY.
I MEAN, THIS IS SOMETHING HAHRIE
IS A -- SOMEBODY WHO'S ALWAYS
BEEN AT THE INTERSECTION OF
RESEARCH AND DESIGN AND SORT OF
PRACTICAL IMPLEMENTATION
PROGRAMS WILL HAVE PROBABLY MUCH
MORE THOUGHTFUL INPUT ON THIS.
BUT I WOULD LOVE ACTUALLY TO
HEAR WHAT HAHRIE'S THOUGHTS ARE.
>> I THINK I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU
SAID.
I MEAN, I THINK THE THING
THAT -- YOU KNOW, THAT I WOULD
ADD IS IT'S NOT JUST A -- IT'S
NOT JUST ABOUT -- OR MAYBE IT'S
MORE JU JUST LIKE EMPHASIZING WT
YOU SAID, I THINK IT'S
ABSOLUTELY TRUE THAT PEOPLE HAVE
LOST A SET OF SKILLS AROUND
THAT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT WHAT ARE THE CONTAINERS
THAT WE CREATE FOR PEOPLE TO BE
ABLE TO LEARN THOSE SKILLS, TO
BE ABLE TO PRACTICE THOSE
SKILLS.
I MEAN, THESE ARE ALL THINGS
THAT THE SAME WAY WE HAVE TO GO
TO THE GYM TO BUILD OUR MUSCLES,
WE HAVE SOCIAL MUSCLES WE HAVE
TO BUILD TOO AND WE'VE LOST THE
KIND OF PROVERBIAL GYMS IN A WAY
WHERE PEOPLE WOULD GO AND LEARN
HOW TO ENGAGE IN THESE KINDS OF
ACTIVITIES.
THEN WHEN THEY'RE THROWN INTO
THESE SETTINGS, IT BECOMES
REALLY COMPLICATED.
ON THE POINT THAT VIVEK WAS
MAKING ABOUT NEGOTIATION, ONE OF
THE THINGS -- WE TALK TO OUR
CHILDREN ABOUT IS, WHEN MY
HUSBAND AND I FIGHT, WE CAN
FIGHT LIKE WE WANT TO STAY
MARRIED OR LIKE WE WANT TO GET
DIVORCED AND OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE
WE'RE COMMITTED TO STAYING
MARRIED, LIKE, OUR BEHAVIORS
FLOW FROM THE COMMITMENTS THAT
WE HAVE TO EACH OTHER.
AND I SHOULD JUST QUALIFY THAT
WE'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR 25 YEARS,
SO EVERYTHING IS GOING REALLY
WELL.
YOU KNOW, SO WE'VE LEARNED HOW
TO NEGOTIATE THAT CONFLICT, BUT
IT'S BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT WE HAD
THIS COMMITMENT TO A LONG-TERM
FUTURE TOGETHER, AND SO WE ACTED
ACCORDINGLY BECAUSE WE HAD THAT.
SO THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE KIND
OF CONTAINERS THAT WE CREATE
SHAPE THE KIND OF COMMITMENTS
THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO MAKE,
AND THEN THERE'S A SET OF
BEHAVIORS THAT FLOW FROM THERE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE
RIGHT NOW IS THAT BECAUSE
THERE'S SUCH A MULTIPLICITY OF
KIND OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE
TO HAVE SOCIAL INTERACTIONS,
WHETHER THEY ARE THESE DIGITAL
COMMUNITIES OR OTHER KINDS OF
PLACES LIKE THAT, THAT IT KIND
OF ENCOURAGES THIS HABIT OF EXIT
AND WHAT SOCIAL SCIENCE MIGHT
CALL EXIT.
SO WHEN THINGS START TO GET
UNCOMFORTABLE IN A SOCIAL MEDIA
COMMUNITY OR THE CONVERSATION IS
GETTING TOO HEATED, I JUST LEAVE
AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
ONCE YOU DEVELOP WHAT THAT
HABIT, WHAT IT MEANS YOU'RE NOT
DEVELOPING THE HABIT OF WHAT IT
MEANS TO LEARN TO COMMIT TO A
SET OF PEOPLE, LIKE YOU KNOW
WHAT, WE'RE GOING TO WORK
TOGETHER, WE'RE GOING TO WORK
THIS OUT WHICH MEANS I'M GOING
TO BEHAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY
THAN I MIGHT IF I THOUGHT I WAS
JUST GOING TO WALK OUT THE DOOR
WHENEVER THINGS GOT HARD.
SO THINKING ABOUT KIND OF WHAT
THE STRUCTURE OF THOSE KIND OF
PLACES IS IS DEFINITELY REALLY
IMPORTANT, AND ONE LAST THING
I'LL SAY TOO, I THINK AS WAS
MENTIONED, I'VE BEEN DOING A LOT
OF WORK WITH EVANGELICAL MEGA
CHURCHES IN AMERICA, WHICH
INCIDENTALLY, THEY ARE A SOCIAL
INSTITUTION THAT'S ACTUALLY BEEN
GROWING IN SIZE SO THE AVERAGE
MEGA CHURCH IN AMERICA GRAW BY
34%, I THINK, IN THE LAST
DECADE, SO PEOPLE ARE LIKE
FLOCKING OR GOING TOWARDS THESE
CHURCHES, AND I THINK THERE'S A
LOT MORE POLITICAL HETEROGENEITY
IN THESE CHURCHES THAN IS
COMMONLY UND UNDERSTOOD, BUT A O
A LOT OF THESE CHURCHES HAVE,
THIS IDEA THAT BELONGING COMES
BEFORE BELIEF.
AND THE IDEA IS THAT BEING A
PART OF OUR COMMUNITY DOES NOT
DEPEND ON WHAT YOU BELIEVE OR
WHO YOU ARE.
BY THE MERE FACT OF EXISTING,
WE'RE GOING TO WELCOME YOU WITH
OPEN ARMS INTO THE COMMUNITY
THAT WE HAVE, AND SO A LOT OF
THESE CHURCHES, EVEN IF THEY ARE
CHRISTIAN CHURCHES, THEY'RE VERY
EXPLICIT ABOUT WHAT THEY STAND
FOR, THEY'LL SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT,
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IN OUR
GOD, YOU ARE STILL A PART OF OUR
COMMUNITY AND WE WELCOME YOU
WITH OPEN ARMS.
SO THEY CREATE THAT COMMUNITY OF
BELONGING, WHICH IS PART HOW I
THINK THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO DRAW
PEOPLE IN, BECAUSE I THINK
PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY FOR PLACES
LIKE THAT, BUT SO MANY OF THE
SOCIAL SPACES THAT WE HAVE IN
OUR WORLD RIGHT NOW PUT BELIEF
BEFORE BELONGING.
YOU KNOW, FIRST YOU HAVE TO SHOW
THAT YOU AGREE WITH US ON A SET
OF THINGS OR THAT YOU SHARE OUR
PRINCIPLES, AND THEN WE'LL
WELCOME YOU INTO OUR COMMUNITY.
SO I THINK THERE ARE WAYS IN
WHICH WE CAN FLIP SOME OF THOSE
CONVENTIONS ON ITS HEAD TO
CREATE BIGGER AND BROADER
COMMUNITIES.
>> CAN I JUST BUILD -- ADD TO
ONE THING HAHRIE SAID, IT'S SUCH
AN IMPORTANT POINT AND I THINK
THE WAY YOU TBRAIMED FRAMED IT Y
RIGHT, THAT WHEN WE'RE COMMITTED
TO EACH OTHER, OUR BEHAVIOR
FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES.
AND I THINK WHEN I REFLECT ON
SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS I'VE
HAD WITH COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE
BEEN THE MOST SORT OF PAINFUL
AND SAD IN SOME WAYS, IT'S THE
CONVERSATIONS WHERE I HEAR FROM
PEOPLE WHO SAY, I JUST AM
WORRIED THAT ANY SORT OF EXPRESS
OF KINDNESS, ET CETERA, THAT
IT'S ALL CONDITIONAL.
IF I SAY THE WRONG THING, I'M
GOING TO BE CAST OUT.
IF I DISAGREE ON A PARTICULAR
ISSUE, I'M GOING TO BE SEEN AS
THE OTHER.
AND THE WHOLE WORLD FEELS
CONDITIONAL, LIKE IN THAT WAY.
ACTUALLY ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE LITERATURE
ON EARLY CHILDHOOD DEVELOPMENT
AND WHAT REALLY MAKES A
DIFFERENCE IN THE LIFE OF A
CHILD, IT'S OFTEN SECURE
RELATIONSHIPS EARLY ON, BECAUSE
THEN YOU KNOW, OKAY, THERE'S
SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT MY BACK, YOU
KNOW, MAYBE I HAVE ONE DAY WHERE
I DO SOMETHING WRONG OR MY
BEHAVIOR IS LIKE OFF OR MAYBE
I'M RUDE OR WHATEVER, BUT THAT
DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT PERSON IS
GOING TO WALK AWAY FROM ME.
AND THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, WHEN
YOU HAVE THOSE, CAN REALLY MAKE
A BIG DIFFERENCE.
BUT I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT WE
NEED THOSE THROUGHOUT OUR LIFE,
WHERE WE KNOW THAT THE LOVE THAT
WE HAVE FOR SOMEBODY AND THAT
THEY HAVE FOR US, THAT IT'S NOT
SO EASILY DISLODGED BY A BAD
CONVERSATION OR A DISAGREEMENT
ON AN ISSUE.
AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK THAT
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN THE
TYPE OF RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE
OFTEN SEE CULTIVATED ONLINE
VERSUS IN PERSON, IS THAT AS
HAHRIE WAS MENTIONING, IT'S A
LOT EASIER TO DISCONNECT TO PUSH
SOMEONE OUT, ET CETERA, ONLINE,
IT'S A LITTLE TOUGHER TO DO THAT
IN PERSON WHEN YOU'RE ACTUALLY
SEEING SOMEONE FACE-TO-FACE.
BUT THAT IS SORT OF I THINK THE
QUESTION, IS WHERE ARE THE
CIRCLES OF COMMITMENT THAT
PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE TODAY,
WHERE THEY CAN FEEL AND DEVELOP
AND CULTIVATE A SENSE OF
BELONGING AND HOW DO WE ALLOW
THEM TO THEN PULL OTHER PEOPLE
INTO THAT SPACE OF BELONGING.
I JUST THINK PEOPLE
FUNDAMENTALLY BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY
WHEN THEY KNOW THAT THEY HAVE
PLACE WHERE THEY BELONG VERSUS
WHEN THEY DON'T.
WHEN YOU FEEL FUNDAMENTALLY JUST
AT SEA, ON YOUR OWN, AND NOBODY
HAS GOT YOUR BACK, IT ACTUALLY
PUTS YOU IN A STATE OF
HYPERVIGILANCE, IT ACTUALLY
LEADS YOU TO BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY
TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD, ET CETERA,
VERSUS WHEN YOU KNOW THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO HAVE YOUR BACK, YOU
CAN DEAL, I THINK MORE READILY,
WITH ADVERSITY.
AGAIN, I'M MAKING BROAD
GENERALIZATIONS HERE, BUT I
DON'T THINK THAT THE
POLARIZATION THAT WE'RE SEEING
IN SOCIETY RIGHT NOW, I DON'T
THINK THAT THE RISE IN MENTAL
HEALTH CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE
SEEING IN SOCIETY RIGHT NOW, I
DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS
COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT FROM
WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THIS LOSS
OF BELONGING AND THIS GROWTH IN
LONELINESS.
I THINK THERE'S A VERY STRONG
CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO,
WHICH IS WHY I THINK REBUILDING
CONNECTION IS NOT JUST A HEALTH
ISSUE.
IT'S AN ECONOMIC, EDUCATIONAL,
NATIONAL SECURITYISH YOU'LL.
IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE HEALTH
AND WELL-BEING OF SOCIETY.
>> I WANT TO ADD IN A QUO THAT
I'M GOING TO TIE IN TO WHAT
YOU'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, WHICH IS
REALLY FASCINATING, AND THIS IS
A QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE
ABOUT IN EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT THE
DIFFERENT TYPES OF INTERACTIONS,
THE NEED TO BUILD SOCIAL
CONNECTION AND HOW SOME OF THE
TECHNOLOGY HAS IMPACTED THAT
SKILLSET TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT,
AND YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT MIGHT
BE EXACERBATED FOR PEOPLE WHO
MIGHT BE MORE NATURALLY
INTROVERTED, AND THIS IS FOR
BOTH OF YOU, DO YOU THINK THAT
TECHNOLOGY LIKE APPS CAN BE USED
AS A TOOL, IN THIS CASE, TO HELP
BUILD CONFIDENCE, CREATE A SAFER
SPACE, SLOWLY HELP BUILD CLOSE
CONNECTIONS AND RELATIONSHIPS, E
ENVIRONMENT OR THE ECOSYSTEM IS
SET CORRECTLY, WHICH WOULD THEN
ALLOW PEOPLE TO POTENTIALLY
START INDIRECT CONVERSATIONS
WITH OTHERS LIKE IN -- PLACES
THEY GO, LIKE MAYBE MEETING
PEOPLE ONLINE FROM THEIR
SPECIFIC THIRD PLACE, AND A
THIRD PLACE, YOU KNOW, AS THE
AUDIENCE MEMBER WRITES, THE
THIRD PLACE IS THE SOCIAL
SURROUNDINGS THAT ARE SEPARATE
FROM PEOPLE'S FIRST PLACE, WHICH
IS USUALLY THEIR HOME
ENVIRONMENT, AND SECOND PLACE,
WHICH IS USUALLY THEIR
WORKPLACE.
SO WOULD IT HELP GIVE PEOPLE THE
TOOLS AND THE SPACE FOR THEM TO
HELP THEM MAKE THAT LEAP FROM
CONVERSATION TO CONNECTION?
>> I CAN JUMP IN HERE AND I KNOW
THAT VIVEK WILL HAVE A LOT TO
SAY HERE ALSO.
SO I JUST WANT TO STEP BACK FOR
A SECOND BUILDING OFF THIS
QUESTION AND THEN ALSO WHAT WE
WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT.
THERE'S THIS LIKE WONDERFUL VERY
SHORT LITTLE BOOK THAT WAS
WRITTEN IN THE MID 20TH CENTURY
BY AN ECONOMIST NAMED ALBERT
HIRSCHMAN CALLED EXIT VOICE IN
LOYALTY THAT I REALLY LOVE.
HE SORT OF AR TECH LATES THE
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT
KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE
THIS KIND OF NOTION OF
COMMITMENT AT THE CORE VERSUS
THOSE WHO DON'T.
SO HE ARGUES THAT THERE'S A
WHOLE SET OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT
WE HAVE UNTIL OUR SOCIETY THAT
OPERATE ON THE LOGIC OF EXIT
WHICH MARINES THAT WHEN I DON'T
LIKE THE PRODUCT OR WHAT THE
ORGANIZATION IS DOING, I JUST GO
CHOOSE ANOTHER ONE.
SO THE EXIT THE ORGANIZATION AND
GO TO THE OTHER.
SO FOR EXAMPLE WHEN I GO TO THE
GROCERY STORE AND PICK OUT
CEREALS, IF I DON'T LIKE CHEX
ANYMORE, I BUY CHERRIOS.
I'M JUST A CONSUMER OF THE
OBJECTS GIVEN TO ME.
BUT THERE'S THE OTHER SIDE WHAT
HE CALLS THE LOGIC OF VOICE,
WHICH MEANS WHEN I DON'T LIKE
WHAT THE ORGANIZATION IS DOING
OR WHAT'S HAPPENING OR I DON'T
LIKE THE PRODUCT, QUOTE-UNQUOTE,
THEN I HAVE TO SORT OF SAY, HEY,
CAN WE TRY TO CHANGE IT?
THEN I TRY TO EXERCISE MY VOICE
IN A WAY TO MAKE THE CHANGES
THAT I WANT.
HE ARGUES THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE
SOME ORGANIZATIONS IN SOCIETY
THAT REALLY OPERATE ON THAT
LOGIC OF VOICE, BECAUSE THAT'S
HOW YOU BUILD A BIGGER TENT.
A LOT OF OUR SOCIAL -- ECONOMIC
ORGANIZATIONS CAN OPERATE ON THE
LOGIC OF EXIT BECAUSE IT'S A
MARKET BASED SYSTEM, BUT OUR
SOCIAL AND POLITICAL
ORGANIZATIONS, THEY NEED TO
BUILD BIG TENTS.
THEY CAN'T BE LOSING PEOPLE WHO
DISAGREE SO THAT'S WHY YOU NEED
TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU BUILD
THOSE KINDS OF COMMITMENTS.
SO TO THE POINT THAT THE
QUESTIONER WAS MAKING, I DO
AGREE IN THE SENSE THAT WE CAN
DPEDEFINITELY DOING A MUCH BETTR
JOB DESIGNING OUR DIGITAL
COMMUNITIES IN WAYS THAT ENHANCE
THE KIND OF INTERACTIONS AND
RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE NEED, BOTH
WEAK TIES AND STRONG TIES AND
ALL THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF
THINGS BUT I THINK ONE THING
THAT IS INHERENTLY DIFFERENT
ABOUT THE DIGITAL SPACE IS THAT
THE SORT OF COMBINATION OF SCALE
AND FRAGMENTATION IN THE
STRUCTURE OF THE INTERNET MEANS
THAT THEY ALMOST ALWAYS OPERATE
ON THIS LOGIC OF EXIT.
SO THAT PEOPLE KIND OF SHOP FOR
COMMUNITIES THAT MEET THEIR
NEEDS AND AT ANY GIVEN TIME WHEN
THEY STOP MEETING THEIR NEEDS,
THEY JUST SHIFT TO ANOTHER
COMMUNITY.
AND SO THIS JUST RELATES TO WHAT
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WHILE
THERE ABSOLUTELY IS A ROLE FOR
THAT KIND OF SOCIAL COMMUNITY IN
PEOPLE'S LIVES, IF THAT'S THE
ONLY KIND OF COMMUNITY THAT YOU
HAVE, THEN THERE'S A WHOLE SET
OF SOCIAL SKILLS THAT ARE
NECESSARY FOR LONG TERM
CONNECTION THAT PEOPLE MISS.
SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT IT MORE AS LIKE A BOTH
>> Dr. Anderson: NOT A BOTH A
REPLACEMENT OF THE KIND OF
NATURAL HUMAN COMMUNITIES THAT
PEOPLE HAVE BEEN BUILDING FOR A
MILLENNIA NOW.
I'M VERY CURIOUS WHAT VIVEK
WOULD SAY AND HOW YOU THINK
ABOUT THAT.
>> I ACTUALLY VERY MUCH AGREE.
I DON'T -- I THINK THE ONLINE
DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY CAN WORK BEST
WHEN IT'S A BRIDGE TO OFFLINE
CONNECTION AND IN-PERSON
CONNECTION, AND YO THE CHALLENGE
HAVE, IT SOMETIMES FEELS EASIER
FROM AN EFFORT PERSPECTIVE TO
ENGAGE SOMEBODY ONLINE, AND TO
GO THROUGH THE TROUBLE OF MAKING
PLANS WITH SOMEBODY, MEETING UP
WITH THEM AND SCHEDULING IT, OR
THE TREPIDATION OF LIKE
ENCOUNTERING A STRANGER AND
TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ON
THE TRAIN.
THESE CAN FEEL LIKE THEY'RE
HIGHER ENERGY, HIGHER ENERGY
BARRIERS TO DOING THEM, BUT THEY
ARE ESSENTIAL.
THEY ARE NOT REPLACEABLE WITH
DIGITAL ALONE.
ONE OTHER THING I'LL JUST SAY IS
I THINK THE INCREASED MOBILITY
OF PEOPLE HAS INCREASED OVER
TIME.
USING THE LANGUAGE THAT HAR EE
WAS REFERENCING, IT'S CREATED A
TENDENCY -- IT MAKES IT EASIER.
IT USED TO BE WHEN WE LIVED IN
THE SAME COMMUNITY, WENT TO HIGH
SCHOOL THERE, STAYED THERE
AFTER, WENT TO WORK.
YOU MAY HAVE HAD A SPAT WITH
SOMEBODY IN HIGH SCHOOL BUT
YOU'RE STILL SEEING THEM AROUND
AFTERWARD, YOU'RE STILL PART OF
THE COMMUNITY, YOUR FAMILIES
STILL PROBABLY KNOW EACH OTHER,
SO THAT CREATES SOME NOTION
THAT, OKAY, WE'RE STILL PART OF
SOMETHING.
WE MAY NOT LOVE EACH OTHER BUT
WEAR NOT GOING TO CAST EACH
OTHER OUT, PER SE.
WHEREAS I THINK NOW, WHEN YOU
MOVE AROUND A LOT, NOT JUST
MOVING AROUND GEOGRAPHICALLY,
WHEN YOU CHANGE WORKPLACES
OFTEN, ET CETERA, LIKE ALL OF
THESE CHANGES MEAN THAT THE
CONNECTIONS WE BUILD, THEY'RE
NOT JUST TRANSIENT BUT THEY FEEL
REPLACEABLE.
AND SO WHEN WE LACK AT LOOK AT
RELATIONSHIPS THAT WAY MORE AS
COMMODITIES THAN ANYTHING ELSE,
I DO THINK IT MAKES IT HARDER TO
BUILD MEANINGFUL RELATIONSHIPS
AND ACTUALLY TO COMMIT, BECAUSE
I THINK THAT SOMEBODY ONCE ASKED
ME, A JOURNALIST, THEY SAID, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE SO MUCH MORE
CHOICE NOW THAN THEY DID 50, 60,
70 YEARS AGO.
ISN'T THAT A GREAT THING?
I WAS LIKE, IT IS GREAT TO HAVE
CHOICE IN SOME WAYS, BUT IT CAN
ALSO BE PARALYZING TO HAVE
CHOICE, TOO MUCH CHOIZ.
IT CAN BE PROBLEMATIC TO HAVE A
LOT OF CHOICE WHEN YOU DON'T
NECESSARILY HAVE A COMPASS
THAT'S GUIDING YOU AS TO TO WHAO
PROVIDE OR ADVERTISE.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF
CHOICE BUT SOCIETY IS TELLING
YOU THE NUMBER ONE MOST
IMPORTANT THING FOR YOU TO DO IS
TO OPTIMIZE YOUR INCOME, YOU
KNOW, OVER THE LIFETIME OF YOUR
CAREER.
YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE VERY
DIFFERENT CHOICES THAN IF
SOCIETY IS TELLING YOU, YOU KNOW
WHAT, THE MOST IMPORTANT
DETERMINANT OF YOUR FULFILLMENT
AND HAPPINESS LONG TERM IS GOING
TO BE CREATING AND BUILDING
HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS.
YOU CAN PURSUE ALL THE OTHER
THINGS.
YOU CAN HAVE GREAT JOBS, YOU CAN
LIKE HAVE FANCY JOBS, YOU CAN
MAKE LOTS OF MONEY IN CERTAIN
JOBS, YOU CAN DO ALL THOSE
THINGS, BUT IN TERMS OF YOUR
PRIORITIES, PRIORITIZE
RELATIONSHIPS, YOU'LL MAKE
DIFFERENT CHOICES.
I THINK ONE OF THE -- I THINK
IT'S GREAT WE HAVE A LOT OF
CHOICES, BUT ESPECIALLY WHAT I
HEAR ECHOED IN THE CONVERSATIONS
WITH COLLEGE STUDENTS ALL THE
TIME, THIS NOTION THAT THEY FEEL
SOCIETY IS DRIVING THEM TO MAKE
CHOICES BASED ON A CERTAIN
PRIORITY SET, AND THAT PRIORITY
SET IS SAYING THAT THEIR SUCCESS
IS DEPENDENT ON THEM MAKING A
LOT OF MONEY, BEING FAMOUS,
ACQUIRING POSITIONS OF POWER,
BEING WELL PUBLISHED, AND
GETTING THEIR NAME OUT THERE.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT
SOCIETY IS TELLING YOU THEY NEED
YOU TO BE SUCCESSFUL, AND THEY
FEEL IF THEY'RE NOT SUCCESSFUL,
THEY'RE NOT WORTHY.
TO MY MIND, THAT IS ACTUALLY A
VERY DANGEROUS EQUATION BECAUSE
THAT LEAD YOU TO DO THINGS AND
TO MAKE CHOICES AMONG THOSE MANY
OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE THAT MAY
OPTIMIZE SUCCESS IN THE
TRADITIONAL SENSE, BUT ACTUALLY
DON'T OPTIMIZE FOR HEALTH AND
HAPPINESS.
I THINK NOW WE'VE SEEN THAT
STUDY AFTER STUDY HAS SHOWN US,
INCLUDING THE HARVARD STUDY, THE
LONGEST RUNNING ONE OF A COHORT
STARTING FROM 1938 UNTIL NOW.
BUT ALL OF OUR RESEARCH HAS
CONTINUED TO SHOW US THAT IF YOU
HAD TO PICK ONE DETERMINANT THAT
WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT, IN TERMS
OF PEOPLE'S HAPPINESS OVER THEIR
LIFETIME, IT IS THE PRESENCE OF
HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS IN THEIR
LIFE, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO
CLOSE A GAP NOW WHEN IT COMES TO
MAKING SURE THAT THAT SCIENTIFIC
REALITY IS REFLECTED IN THE
PRIORITIES THAT WE SHARE WITH
YOUNG PEOPLE, WITH HOW WE DEFINE
SUCCESS AS A SOCIETY, BECAUSE
RIGHT NOW I THINK THERE IS A BIG
GAP.
>> CAN I JUST CHIME IN ONE
THING, I CAN'T RESIST, ONE OF
THE HATS I WEAR IS I LEAD AN
INSTITUTE AT THE HOPKINS THAT
THINKS A LOT ABOUT QUESTIONS
ABOUT DEMOCRACY AND HOW IT IS WE
STRENGTHEN DEMOCRACY.
SOMETHING VIVEK WAS TALKING
ABOUT WAS SO RELEVANT, I THINK,
TO THIS QUESTION THAT -- THE
CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE HAVING
ABOUT SOCIAL CONNECTION AND
WELL-BEING, BECAUSE ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN IN
SOCIETIES WHERE YOU HAVE A LOT
OF BACK SLIDING IS THIS
CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT IS IT
THAT WE OPTIMIZE HAS KIND OF
DISAPPEARED FROM PUBLIC
CONVERSATION IN A WAY.
SO WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME
THINKING ABOUT HOW TO OPTIMIZE
THINGS AND WE THINK ABOUT
MARKETS AND TECHNOLOGIES AND
DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ALLOW US
TO BECOME MORE EFFICIENT TO
THOOPTIMIZE, BUT PEOPLE HAVE TO
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE
CHOICES ABOUT WHAT ARE THE
THINGS THAT I HOLD SACRED IN MY
LIFE, AND THEN HOW DO I ORGANIZE
MY LIFE AROUND THE THINGS THAT
ARE SACRED TO ME, BUT WE DON'T
REALLY CREATE THOSE KIND OF
OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE
OR, YOU KNOW, FOR EVEN ADULTS TO
REALLY THINK THROUGH THEM.
NOW SOME FAITH COMMUNITIES DO,
CERTAINLY SOME SCHOOLS DO, BUT
IT'S NOT THIS KIND OF UNIVERSAL
SORT OF BROAD THING THAT WE
ENGAGE, AND THAT REALLY -- WHEN
YOU THINK ABOUT THAT AT SCALE,
THAT'S WHAT POLITICS SHOULD BE,
POLITICS IS A CONVERSATION
BETWEEN DIFFERENT GROUPS ABOUT
WHAT SHOULD WE OPTIMIZE AND THEN
WE FIGURE THAT OUT, BUT IT'S HAD
THESE DOWNSTREAM CONSEQUENCES
THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT AND SO
I THINK THAT VERY OFTEN WHEN
PEOPLE DO GRAPPLE WITH THAT
QUESTION AND THEY COME BACK TO
THIS QUESTION ABOUT
RELATIONSHIPS AND THE PEOPLE WHO
ARE CLOSE TO ME, BUT WE HAVE TO
GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
REALLY GRAPPLE WITH THAT
QUESTION SO THEY COME TO OWN THE
ANSWERS THEMSELVES AS OPPOSED TO
SAYING I'M DOING THIS BECAUSE
THAT'S WHAT SOMEONE TOLD ME I
SHOULD DO, SO THERE'S A REAL
DIFFERENCE IN THAT.
OF
>> SO IN OUR LAST FEW MINUTES, I
REALLY WANT TO HIGHLIGHT AND
MAKE THIS AUDIENCE AWARE,
DR. HAN, OF SOME OF THE WORK
YOU'RE WORKING ON NOW.
ONE OF THE PROJECTS I WANTED TO
HIGHLIGHT IS THE LEAD LOCAL
PROJECT, WHICH IS A
COLLABORATIVE OF WELL RESPECTED
LOCAL COMMUNITY LEADERS WHO ARE
WORKING TO EXAMINE THOSE
RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN COMMUNITY
POWER AND HEALTH EQUITY.
SO WOULD YOU BRIEFLY DISCUSS WHY
YOU DECIDED TO WORK ON THIS
TOPIC AND HOW COMMUNITY POWER
BUILDING CAN ENHANCE HEALTH
EQUITY?
>> YEAH, SO AS SO MANY PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN HAVING CONVERSATION
FOR SO LONG, WE ALL KNOW HEALTH
IS MORE THAN THE INTERACTIONS
PEOPLE HAVE WITH THEIR DOCTORS
IN KIND OF MEDICAL SETTINGS.
THE AVERAGE PERSON YOU PULL OFF
THE STREET, YOU ASK THEM HOW
HEALTHY THEY ARE, THEY MIGHT
TALK ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP TO
THEIR DOCTOR, THAT REALLY IT'S
ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAT'S GEG ON
IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.
AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE
WORK THAT WOVE DONE IN TRYING TO
THINK ABOUT THAT IS THINKING
ABOUT HOW DO WE STRENGTHEN THE
ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE ABLE TO
PROMOTE WELL-BEING BY
BUILDING COMMUNITY POWER, AND I
THINK THE COMMUNITY POWER
MATTERS ON A COUPLE DIFFERENT
LEVELS.
FIRST WHEN YOU HAVE
COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS
THAT CAN EXERCISE REAL POWER,
THEN THEY'RE ABLE TO ADVOCATE
FOR THE NEEDS AND INTERESTS OF
THE CONSTITUENCIES THAT THEY
REPRESENT.
SO THERE'S A KIND OF LIKE
ADVOCACY ANGLE THERE.
BUT SECOND, I THINK RELATED TO
WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT,
IS THAT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE
THE ABILITY TO REALLY EXERCISE
POWER ARE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT
QUESTION LIKE WHAT SHOULD WE TO,
YOU KNOW, WHEN THINGS GET REALLY
HARD, HOW DO WE COME TOGETHER AS
A COMMUNITY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT
SHOULD WE DO.
THAT'S WHAT WE THINK OF AS
SOMEONE'S SENSE OF THEIR OWN
AGENCY.
BUT THAT'S A HARD QUESTION TO
ANSWER WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.
IT'S HARD FOR A GROUP OF PEOPLE
ESPECIALLY IN A DIVERSE
COMMUNITY COME TOGETHER AND KNOW
HOW TO ANSWER THAT.
SO THE INVESTMENTS IN COMMUNITY
POWER BUILDING ARE REALLY ABOUT
EQUIPPING COMMUNITIES TO BE ABLE
TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION BECAUSE
WHEN PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY CAN
PUT THEIR HANDS ON THE LEVERS OF
CHANGE, WHEN PEOPLE FEEL LIKE
THEY CAN BE ARCHITECTS OF THEIR
OWN FUTURE, THEN WHAT WE SEE IS
THAT SENSE OF AGENCY ALSO
PROMOTES THEIR SENSE OF
WELL-BEING.
IT HAS EFFECTS NOT ONLY THROUGH
THE KIND OF ADVOCACY THAT THEY
MIGHT DO, BUT ALSO THROUGH KIND
OF THEIR SENSE OF THEIR OWN
ABILITY TO SORT OF REALIZE THE
FUTURES THAT THEY WANT FOR
THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES.
>> THAT REMINDS ME A GREAT DEAL
ABOUT COMMUNITY-BASED
PARTICIPATORY RESEARCH AND AREAS
WHERE IN COMMUNITY ENGAGED
RESEARCH WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO
HELP COMMUNITIES BUILD AGENCY TO
ASK QUESTIONS AND UNDERSTAND
WHAT THE RESEARCH NEEDS OF THEIR
COMMUNITIES ARE, AND IN MANY
SENSES, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT
THE WAY YOU JUST DESCRIBED IT,
SO I DEFINITELY ENCOURAGE THE
AUDIENCE TO REALLY LOOK MORE AT
THIS FRAMING FOR THE WORK WE'RE
DOING IN COMMUNITY ENGAGED
RESEARCH IN THE BIOMEDICAL
RESEARCH SPACE.
SO I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION AND
THEN WE'LL SEE IF -- WE'LL BE
PREPARED PROBABLY TO CLOSE.
NOW, DR. HAN, YOU DID MENTION
THE WORK YOU'RE DOING IN TERMS
OF THE IMPACT OF FAITH IN
DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.
SO I DID WANT TO TALK A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT YOUR FIFTH BOOK THAT
WILL BE RELEASED LATER THIS
YEAR, INTERESTED IN HEARING MORE
ABOUT THIS TOPIC AND
SPECIFICALLY WHY YOU FOCUSED ON
THE IMPACT OF FAITH AND WHAT
MIGHT WE EXPECT WHEN WE READ THE
BOOK?
>> YEAH, SO MAYBE I'LL START
WITH A COUPLE DATA POINTS THAT
GOT ME INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC.
SO FAITH COMMUNITIES STILL PLAY
A REALLY LARGE ROLE IN KIND OF
FORMING THE SOCIAL FABRIC OF
PEOPLE'S LIVES.
ONE PROJECT WE'VE UNDERTAKEN AT
MY INSTITUTE AT HOPKINS IS TO
TRY TO MAP CIVIC INFRASTRUCTURE
IN THE UNITED STATES AND WE'RE
TRYING TO LOOK AT WHERE ARE THE
PLACES WHERE PEOPLE GO TO FIND
THE KIND OF CONNECTION WE'VE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT TODAY, AND WE
FIND I THINK THAT IN SOMETHING
LIKE 83% OF COUNTIES IN AMERICA,
THE TOP PROVIDERS OF CIVIC
OPPORTUNITY ARE STILL LIKE
SOCIAL FRATERNAL ORGANIZATIONS
AND FAITH INSTITUTIONS.
THEY STILL PLAY A REALLY, REALLY
BIG ROLE, AND WHILE IT'S TRUE
THAT A LOT OF CHURCHES ARE
DECLINING IN SIZE RIGHT NOW,
MEGA CHURCHES HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN
GROWING OVER THE PAST DECADE AS
WE TALKED ABOUT.
SO I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE
THESE FAITH INSTITUTIONS ARE
PLAYING SUCH A BIG ROLE AND WHAT
CAN WE LEARN FROM THESE
INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY
DRAWING MORE PEOPLE INTO THEM,
LIKE WHY ARE PEOPLE FLOCKING TO
THEM, AND SO WHAT THE BOOK DOES
IS IT PROFILES A GROUP OF
MULTI-RACIAL PEOPLE, THE THIRD
LARGEST MEGA CHURCH IN THE
UNITED STATES TRYING TO ORGANIZE
AROUND RACIAL JUSTICE WITHIN THE
CONTEXT OF A WHITE DOMINANT
EVANGELICAL MEGA CHURCH, SO THE
POLITICALLY KIND OF POLITICALLY
DIVERSE COMMUNITY LOCATED IN
CINCINNATI, OHIO.
THE BOOK PUBLISHED BY KNAFF, IT
TRACES THE NARRATIVES OF FOUR
PEOPLE, A BLACK MAN, WHITE MAN,
PLAQUE WOMABLACK WOMAN AND WHITO
GO THROUGH THIS JOURNEY WHERE
THEY BECOME ANIMATED TO WORK ON
ISSUES OF ANTI-RACISM BUT THEN
EXPERIENCE BACKLASH AND IT KIND
OF ASKS THIS QUESTION OF WHAT
ARE THE STRUCTURES AND
SCAFFOLDING WE NEED AROUND US TO
BE ABLE TO STAY COMMITTED TO A
SET OF VALUES THAT WE REALLY
CARE ABOUT.
AND SO THE BOOK IS REALLY
FOCUSED ON TRYING TO UNPACK THAT
STORY THROUGH THE NARRATIVES OF
THESE PEOPLE, AND I WILL SAY
THAT I THINK WHAT I CAME INTO
THIS PROJECT SORT OF BY ACCIDENT
BY COMING ACROSS THIS COMMUNITY,
BUT I'VE LEARNED SUCH AN
ENORMOUS AMOUNT ABOUT WHAT IT
TAKES TO DO THE THINGS THAT
WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TODAY
TO CREATE COMMUNITIES OF
BELONGING, TO NAVIGATE
DIFFERENCE, TO STAY COMMITTED
EVEN WHEN THE GOING GETS HARD,
AND TO REALLY LEARN HOW IT IS
THAT WE NAVIGATE WITH THE
COMPASSES THAT WE ALL NEED TO
CONSTRUCT IN A VERY COMPLEX AND
DIVIDED WORLD.
>> FANTASTIC.
YOU ARE BOTH SUCH INSPIRING
PEOPLE.
VIVEK, YOU ALWAYS INSPIRE ME AND
I COULD LISTEN TO YOU TALK FOR
MANY MORE HOURS.
DR. HAN, REALLY PHENOMENAL
DISCUSSION.
AS WE WRAP UP, THIS HAS BEEN A
REALLY INFORMATIVE
THOUGHT-PROVOKING ORGANIZATION,
CONVERSATION.I'LL ASK ACTUALLY F
YOU MIGHT WANT TO HELP CLOSE US
OUT.
>> DR. WEBB COOPER, THANK YOU.
LET ME JUST CLOSE WITH A FEW
WORDS OF THANKS.
FIRST TO DRS. MURTHY AND HAN,
ALL OF US AT NIH ARE REALLY
APPRECIATIVE TO ALL OF YOU FOR
THIS FANTASTIC CONVERSATION.
HAHRIE, YOUR STORY RESONATED
WITH ME, SOUTH KOREA, --
HOUSTON, MY STORY WAS DETROIT,
VIVEK, THE ANECDOTE YOU SHARED
ABOUT YOUR PARENTS NOT
CONSIDERING TO TAKE A BREAK
COULD HAVE BEEN TOLD WORD FOR
WORD ABOUT YOUR PARENTS.
I THINK THIS CONVERSATION IS A
GREAT REMINDER THAT ALL OF US IN
THIS COUNTRY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT
OUR SPECIFIC COUNTRIES AND
CITIES ARE, HAVE OUR OWN
AMERICAN STORIES, AND SOME OF
THOSE STORIES ARE REALLY COMP
COMPLEX.
SO SECONDLY TO MONICA, THANK YOU
FOR DOING A GREAT JOB OF
MODERATING, AS ALWAYS.
YOU KNOW, WE HAD A INTERACTION
LAST YEAR WHEN I FLIPPANTLY
REFERRED TO YOU AS MY WORK
SISTER, AND I'M GLAD I CHOSE A
GOOD SIBLING FOR THAT.
AND FINALLY, TO JUST ALL THE
ORGANIZERS, ESPECIALLY TO NIMHD,
AND THE NIH CHAPTER, TO THE
PLANNING COMMITTEE AND TO ALL
THE CO-SPONSORS OF THIS EVENT, I
HOPE TODAY'S CONVERSATION IS
GOING TO GIVE US ALL A LITTLE
BIT MORE TO THINK ABOUT DURING
AAMHPI HERITAGE MONTH.
SO THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR
ATTENDING AND HAVE A GREAT
AFTERNOON.
>> THANK YOU.