>> GOOD AFTERNOON. UNFORTUNATELY ONE OF OUR SPEAKERS FOUND IT UNABLE TO BE HERE TODAY SO I'M GOING TO FILL IN AS THE HEART SURGEON. SO THESE ARE THE TOPICS WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER. A FEW THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION. WHY IS PRIMARY CANCER OF THE LIVER DIFFERENT FROM ALL OR MOST OTHER SOLID TUMORS. WE TEND TO LUMP ALL THESE THINGS TOGETHER IN THINKING ABOUT MECHANISMS OF TUMOR FORMATION. BUT THE REASONS ARE LISTED HERE. FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM. AND THE NECESSARY DENSE CONTINUES TO INCREASE WORLDWIDE. SECONDLY EXPERIMENTALLY AND CLINICALLY, WE KNOW THE EAT TAWLG OF MOST -- ETIOLOGY OF MOST CAUSES OF PRIMARY CANCER OF THE LIVER AND EXPERIMENTALLY WE UNDERSTAND THE PATHOGENESIS IN SOME INSTANCES AND ACTUALLY IN GREAT DETAIL. RESPONSE TO PREVENT 50% OF PRIMARY CANCER OF THE LIVER, BUT THE OBSTACLES ARE THAT SOCIETY AROUND THE WORLD IN PARTICULAR DOESN'T WANT TO INVEST IN THE MEANS TO DO THIS. WHERE THEY HAVE, THE RESULTS ARE DRAMATIC, WHICH I'LL SHOW YOU. NOW OF GREAT INTEREST AND BIOLOGICAL CHALLENGE, PARTICULARLY TO BASIC SCIENTISTS, THE FASCINATING THING THAT PRIMARY CANCER OF THE LIVER IS USUALLY ENTRANCEALLY RESISTENT FROM ALMOST ANY ANTI-CANCER DRUG THAT'S USED. NOW MOST CANCERS BECOME RESISTENT AT THEIR PARYK AND HAVE BEEN TREATED PARTICULARLY -- AT THEIR PEAK AND HAVE BEEN TREATED PARTICULARLY WITH SINGULAR TREATMENTS AND GIVEN IN COMBINATION WITH MULTIPLE ONES. BUT PRIMARY CANCER ON THE LIVER HAS A BIT OF A UNIQUE FUTURE THAT IN THE VERY BEGINNING BEFORE ANYBODY RECEIVES ANY ANTI-CANCER DRUG, THEY SHOW MANIFESTATIONS OF MULTIDRUG RESISTENT. THAT PRIMARY CANCER OF THE LIVER IS A SILENT KILLER. IN MOST PATIENTS, PARTICULARLY IN THE EARLY STAGES WHEN SOMETHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT, THE PATIENTS ARE ASYMPTOMATIC. AND THE DISEASE PROGRESSES AND PRODUCES SYMPTOMS ONLY WHEN THE TUMOR INVADES SOME CRITICAL STRUCTURE. WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. THERE ARE ALSO TECHNIQUES FOR SCREENING THE DEVELOPMENT, WHO GETS PRIMARY LIVER CANCER AND SCREEN THOSE PATIENTS, PARTICULARLY BY IMAGING TECHNIQUES AND ZONOGRAPHY. BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LARGE POPULATIONS THAT WE'RE GOING TO ENUMERATE, SCREENING ALTHOUGH IT MAY BE EFFECTIVE TO AGREE IT'S NOT VERY PRACTICAL. AS YOU'LL SEE AT THE MOMENT, THERE ARE NO CONSISTENT MARKERS THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE. NOW CURIOUSLY, THE PEOPLE CAN BE CURED IF IT'S DISCOVERED THAT THEY HAVE SMALL TUMOR, AND THEIR LIVER IS TRANSPLANTED. THAT COSTS ABOUT HALF A MILLION DOLLARS AND IS NOT A READILY AVAILABLE EVENT. SO THIS IS SORT OF A PANOPLY OF TOPIC THAT I'M GOING TO COVER AND COMMENT ABOUT, SHOW YOU SOME DATA IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR. AND THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT MAKE PRIMARY LIVER CANCER QUITE SEPARABLE FROM MANY OF THE OTHER SOLID TUMORS. SO I THOUGHT WE OUGHT TO BEGIN AT THE BEGINNING WAS PROBABLY NOT MANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE MORPHOLOGY OF THE LIVER SO I THOUGHT I WOULD SHOW YOU WHAT A NORMAL LIVER LOOKS LIKE. IT LOOKS LIKE A FOOTBALL AND IT'S UNDER YOUR RIGHT RIB CAGE. AND THE MORPHOLOGY IS SUCH THAT IT'S PREDOMINANTLY A VASCULAR ORGAN. THE PREDOMINANT CELLS ARE THE HUH MATT SITES WHICHEPATOCYTES WHICH ARE R ATHER DULL LOOKING AND AFTER UNDER GOING MITOSIS ONCE A YEAR. THEY FORM THESE LONG CHANLTDZ, CORDS WHERE THE BLOOD FLOWS IN ONE DIRECTION FROM THE INFLOW SIDE, FROM THE INTESTINE AND THE ARTERY, TO THE OUTFLOW SIDE WHERE IT GOES BACK UP TO THE HEART. AND THE BIODUCTS ARE REPRESENTED AS BETWEEN THE ROWS OF HEPATOCYTES. AND THAT'S THE STRUCTURE. IT'S NO WHERE NEAR DRAMATIC AS LOOKING AT A BONE MARROW WHERE YOU SEE CELLS IN MULTIPLE STAGES OF CHANGE. NOW THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S A CANCER. THE SOLID LIVER HAS MULTIPLE AREAS THAT ARE SLIGHT LY WIDER IN COLOR AND THEY REPRESENT PRIMARY CANCER IN THE LIVER FOR REASONS WE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS FREQUENTLY MULTICENTRIC. IT DOESN'T ALWAYS JUST BE ONE THING. THERE MAY BE ONE AREA OF ONE LOBE AND ANOTHER AREA OF ANOTHER LOBE. WE ONLY HAVE SOME VERY LOOSE IDEAS ABOUT WHETHER THOSE OF THE SAME COLONIAL TUMORS THAT ARE PRESENT. THESE SOME EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THEY ARE. AND THEN THERE'S A ZONE OWE GRAPH ON THE TOP WHEN YOU'RE DOING ZONOGRAPHY OVER THE LIVER. IF YOU LOOK OVER HISTOLOGY YOU CAN ELIMINATE SOME OF THE PROBLEM. IT'S NOT A PROBLEM TO DIAGNOSE IT UNDER A MICROSCOPE BUT WHEN YOU VISUALIZE THOSE TUMOR CELLS ARE JUST SORT OF INFILTRATING THE NORMAL CELLS. UNLESS THEY FORM A BIG MASS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DETECT IT. BE IT BY IMAGING OR CERTAINLY BY PHYSICAL EXAM. NOW THIS IS ONE OF THE BIG PROBLEMS. CIRRHOSIS OF THE LIVER, SCARRING ON THE LIVER IS A MAJOR RISK FACTOR REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE EAT TAWLG FOETIOLOGY FOR THAT IS. WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN A MINUTE. THAT'S A SA SAW RATTIC LIVER AT THE TOP. IT LOOKS LIKE MULTIPLE HOLES IN THE LIVER. HIS YOHISTOLOGICALLY YOU CAN SEE THESE ARE ROUND AREAS OF REGENERATION. WHEN THE LIVER'S DAMAGED, IT REGENERATES. BUT IF THERE'S A LOT OF SCARRING, IT ONLY REGENERATES IN A RESTRICTIVE WAY SO IT PRODUCES WHAT'S CALLED A NODULE. THE BIG PROBLEM IS HOW DO YOU TELL A NODULE FROM A TUMOR IN A SAW RATTIC LIVER. CIRRHOSIS IS A RISK LIVER. PRIMARY LIVER CANCER IS A MAJOR PROBLEM WORLDWIDE. IT'S ESTIMATED THERE ARE OVER 700,000 NEW CASES DIAGNOSED EACH YEAR AROUND THE WORLD. IN THE INCIDENCE IT'S THE FIFTH MOST COMMON CANCER IN THE WORLD AND THE THIRD MOST COMMON CAUSE OF CANCER-RELATED DEATHS. AT LEAST THOSE ARE APPROXIMATIONS BASED UPON VARIOUS SURVEYS. SO THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. SO LET ME TELL YOU BRIEFLY ABOUT THREE INDIVIDUAL PATIENTS. BECAUSE THESE ARE A BACKGROUND TO THE DIFFERENT WAYS IN WHICH THIS DISEASE PRESENTS ITSELF. FIRST IS A VERY HEALTHY 23-YEAR OLD MOZAMBIQUE GOLD AMERICAN. HE WORKS A MILE AND-A-HALF DOWN IN THE WORTH. EATS MAYBE 5,000 CALORIES A DAY. IS IN GREAT PHYSICAL CONDITION. AND WHEN HE NOTICES A LUMP IN THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS ABDOMEN, THE DIAGNOSIS IS PRIMARY LIVER CANCER AND HE'S DEAD WITHIN A YEAR. THE SECOND IS A 55 YEAR OLD AMERICAN FEMALE WHOSE HAD CHRONIC HEPATITIS AND CIRRHOSIS, FIBROSIS FOR MAYBE 20 YEARS. AND A MASS IN THE LIVER IS DISCOVERED BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DOING SERIAL ULTRA COUNTED LOOKING FOR SOMETHING -- ULTRASOUND LOOKING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT MASS AND IT APPEARS IT'S PRIMARY CANCER. THAT'S PROBABLY THE MAJOR FORMAT IN WHICH WE SEE IT IN THIS COUNTRY. BUT THE THIRD IS ALSO VERY COMMON. A 70 YEAR OLD CHINESE GENTLEMAN COMES TO AMERICA 15 YEARS AGO. HAS A CHECK UP, HAS A LIVER MASS, PRIMARY LIVER CANCER. NOW WHAT THESE PEOPLE ALL HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT THEY ARE CARRIES OF HEPATITIS B VIRUS AND/OR HEPATITIS C VIRUS. LET'S TALK A MINUTE ABOUT HOW A CLINICIAN DIAGNOSIS THIS DISEASE. I TOLD YOU THAT MOST PRIMARY LIVER CANCERS ARE NOT SYMPTOMATIC AND THE REASON IS, AS YOU COULD SEE FROM THE HISTOLOGY, AND ALSO BECAUSE THE LIVER DOESN'T HAVE SENSORY NERVE ENDINGS. THE ONLY TIME YOU GET PAIN FROM THE LIVER IS WHEN SOMETHING EITHER STRETCHES THE CAPSULE WHICH IS A LYNN LAYER OF CELLS THAT -- THING LAYER OF CELLS THAT SURROUNDS IT OR IF A TUMOR HAPPENS TO INVADE IT, THEN YOU GET ACUTE PAIN. BUT OTHERWISE THERE MAY BE A DULL ACHE IF THERE'S A BIG TUMOR. SO IT'S NOT AT THE TREATABLE STAGE WITH MUCH SYMPTOMS. THE SYMPTOMS ARE DUE TO THE BEHAVIOR OF THE TUMOR. OF THESE TUMORS HAVE A UNIQUE PROPERTY WHICH WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND FOR INVADING BLOOD VESSELS. PRIMARY LIVER CANCER CAN ACTUALLY CLIMB UP THE HEPATIC VEIN. THAT'S THE WAY BLOOD GETS FROM THE LIVER BACK TO THE HEART, CAN ACTUALLY CLIMB UP INTO THAT VESSEL AND THROMBOSE THE WHOLE THING. LEADING TO A MAJOR MAYBE HAPPEN QUICKLY OR SLOWLY BUT A MAJOR CONSEQUENCE. THEN YOU CAN DIAGNOSE IT. OR IT INVADES THE PORTAL VEIN WHICH DELIVERS BLOOD FROM THE INTESTINE TO THE LIVER PROCESSING WHAT'S CALLED PORTAL HYPERTENSION. PEOPLE CAN BLEED FROM THAT. OR SOMETIMES IT ACTUALLY INVADES BIO DUCTS AND PRODUCES BIL BILL REA -- IT HAS TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE IT BECOMES OBVIOUS FOR THE MOST PART. AND ALTHOUGH PEOPLE CAN COMPLAIN OF WEAKNESS IS TIREDNESS AND LOSS OF APPETITE, THERE ARE MANY THING THAT CAN CAUSE THAT SO IT'S NOT SO SPECIFIC. SO IT'S NOT A SURPRISE THAT IN EARLY DIAGNOSIS IN A BERN WHO DOESN'T HAVE A MAJOR RISK FACTOR IS NOT A COMMON EVENT. SOMETIMES THESE TUMORS DO REALLY STRANGE THINGS THEY REARRANGE THEIR DNA AND STARTS MAKING HORMONES. ONE OF THE HORMONES IT CAN MATE IS EPO -- MAKE IS EPO. THAT STIMULATES RED CELL PRODUCTION. SO YOU CAN HAVE VERY HIGH HEMOGLOBIN LEVELS. THEY MAKE SOMETHING CALLED PARATHYROID HORMONE AND THAT FROZE THE CALCIUM LEVELS. THESE ARE VERY RARE PHENOMENA BUT IT SHOWS THE POTENTIAL OF IT. SO THIS IS THE WORLDWIDE INCIDENCE OF THIS DISEASE, THE BLACK ONES ARE THE MORE SEVERE. SO YOU SEE IT'S A DISEASE OF THE ORIENT. A DISEASE FOR THE SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA AND ANOTHER CENTERS AROUND THE WORLD. BUT IT'S A WORLD-WIDE DISEASE. AND IT SORT OF MATCHES UP, THIS IS AN OLD SLIDE OF THE PREVALENCE OF A MARKER FOR HEPATITIS B VIRUS, 1997. THERE'S SIMILAR AND THE HEPATITIS C PARALLELS IT BUT MAYBE -- WILL COMMENT ON THE ACCURACY OF THEM THIS IS THE SUPER IMPOSITION OF THE CANCER AND THE HEPATITIS B THAT WAS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT LED THE DISCOVERERS OF THE HEPATITIS B TO THINK THAT THIS MAY ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE CANCER. AND SO HERE ARE THE ESTIMATED US CANCER DEATHS. THE IMPORTANT THING IS THIS IS A DISEASE THAT IS MORE COMMON IN MEN THAN WOMEN. WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY, IT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH THE VIRUS ETIOLOGY AND THE REACTION OF THE DIFFERENT GENDERS TO VIRUSES. BUT IT'S THE FIFTH MOST COMMON CANCER DEATH CAUSE IN MALES AT THE 7TH OR 8TH IN FEMALES. IT'S NOT AN UNCOMMON DISEASE. AND DUE TO THE IMMIGRATION IN THE UNITED STATES, PARTICULARLY FROM THE ORIENT, DEATHS FROM HEPATITIS -- FROM PRIMARY LIVER CANCER ARE INCREASING IN THE UNITED STATES. AND SO THIS IS THE U.S. INCIDENCE OF PRIMARY LIFERLT CANCER OVER A PERIOD OF SEVEN YEARS, AND I THINK THE MORE RECENT DATA MERELY SHOW THAT THIS TREND IS CONTINUING. THE NUMBER OF DEATHS PROGRESSIVELY INCREASES. CORRESPONDINGLY, THE SAME THING'S TRUE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. AND HERE'S A SLIDE SHOWING THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IN JAPAN IN THE PAST 44 YEARS. AND YOU WILL NOTICE THAT AFTER ABOUT 1976-1979, THE FREQUENCY OF DEATHS FROM THIS DISEASE INCREASES SUBSTANTIALLY. YOU'LL ALSO NOTICE SOMETHING ELSE, THAT THIS IS PREDOMINANTLY A DISEASE OF OLDER INDIVIDUALS. THIS IS NOT A DISEASE OF CHILDHOOD OR VERY YOUNG ADULTS. THE FREQUENTLY REALLY GOES UP WHEN YOU GET TO BE IN YOUR, OH, LATE 50'S AND UPWARD. NOW, IT'S ONE OF THE FEW CANCERS WHERE THERE ARE WELL-DEFINED MAJOR RISK FACTORS AND ALL KINDS OF EPIDEMIOLOGICAL AND OTHER STUDIES, EXEXPERIMENTAL STUDIES CONFIRM THIS. THE MAJOR RISK FACTORS ARE THE HEPATITIS B AND HEPATITIS C. THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE THAT ALCOHOL IS A RISK FACTOR. NOT THE OCCASIONAL FORT FRIDAY NIGHT WINE KIND OF ALCOHOL BUT SAW ROSE AND OTHER FORMS -- CIRRHOSIS AND OTHER FORMS OF LIVER DISEASE. TALK ENGINES PLAY A PART ESPECIALLY SOUTH AFRICA WAS THOUGHT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE ACCELERATED RATE OF TUMORRED -- LIKE FOR EXAMPLE IN THE MOZAMBIQUE GOLD MINE. NOW THIS WAS A YOUNG MAN THESE PEOPLE GOT HEPATITIS B FROM THEIR MOTHERS ALTHOUGH THEY'VE HAD IT FROM 20 YEARS BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE CIRRHOSIS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO ALWAYS FEELING THAT SOMETHING ELSE WAS GOING ON AND THERE WAS A LOT OF OF LOW TOXIN AROUND. IT'S SHOWN THAT AFLOTOXIN HAS A SPECIFIC TARGET ON P53, ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT CAN BE MUTATED IN THIS DISEASE. NOW THE OTHER IS A METABOLIC DISEASE, IRON STORAGE DEAL. HEMO CHROME TOASTS WHERE IRON AND EXCESS EXERTS A SPHREE RADICAL EFFECT WHICH ACTS AS A TUMOR GENIC. YOU'LL NOTICE A COUPLE OF INTERESTING THINGS BOTH AS GEOGRAPHIC DISTRIBUTION IN WHAT'S THOUGHT TO BE THE ETIOLOGIC FACTOR, MOST NOTABLY IN ASIA AND AFRICA, HEPATITIS B VIE RUSSIAN, DESPITE THE AVAILABILITY OF AN EFFECTIVE VACCINE WHICH HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR 20 OR MORE YEARS NOW, HEPATITIS B VIRUS IS THE MAJOR CAUSE OF PRIMARY LIVER CANCER IN AFRICA. THERE'S BEEN A SHIFTER IN THE REST OF THE -- SHIFT IN THE REST OF THE WORLD MORE TOWARD HEPATITIS C BEING THE PREDOMINANT. NOW HERE'S AN INTERESTING THING TO KEEP IN MIND. WHAT IS A RISK FACTOR? EVERYONE IS CONCERNED ABOUT BEING IN A RESTAURANT WHERE THERE'S SECONDARY SMOKE. YOU SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT THE SURGEON GENERAL REPORTED THAT A MAC A DAY SMOKERS HAVE A 20-FOLD RELATIVE INCREASE IN DEVELOPING PRIMARY LUNG KARNLINGS WHEN COMPARED TO NON--- CANCER WHEN COMPARED TO NON-SMOKERS WHERE CHRONIC HEPATITIS B CARRIERS HAVE A HUNDRED FOLD RELATIVE RISK OF DEVELOPING PRIMARY CANCER. SO THIS IS A MAJOR RISK FACTOR. IT'S SO MAJOR THAT PEOPLE THINK OF IT EAT LOGICALLY, NOT -- EAT LOGICALLY, NOT IN SOME ASSOCIATED KIND OF WAY. SO THIS IS A SLIDE SHOWING THAT THE ETIOLOGY CHANGED -- WELL IT CHANGED BECAUSE THIS IS IN JAPAN PRIOR TO 1988 OR SO THERE WAS NO WAY OF DETECTING HEPATITIS C. SO MOST OF THIS BARRED PRIOR TO THEN OR YELLOW BECAUSE THEY WERE UNKNOWN. BUT THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WHICH WERE UNKNOWN TURNED OUT TO BE HEPATITIS C. WHICH YOU'LL ALSO NOTICE THAT THE FREQUENCY OF HEPATITIS B AS SHOWN IN THE GRAY-LIKE BARS DECREASES AND I THINK THAT'S PRIMARY ASSOCIATED WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF VACCINE AND PREVENTION OF THE MATERNAL CHILD SEQUENCE, THE PERINATAL INFECTION. IN THE UNITED STATES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT INFORMATION IS AS TO THE DISTRIBUTION. MY GUESS IS HEPATITIS C IS PREDOMINANTLY FOUND IN PATIENTS WITH PRIMARY LIVER CANCER. I MEAN HERE IN 2003 IT'S, 47%. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS NOW. OKAY. BUT THE POINT HERE IS IF YOU TAKE A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WITH PRIMARY LIVER CANCER AND YOU LOOK, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM HAVE HEPATITIS C OR HEPATITIS B. AND SOME OF THEM HAVE BOTH. NOW THE OTHER THING THAT'S EMERGED, DIABETES. AND SOMEWHAT LESS CLEAR, OBESITY IS A RISK FACTOR. SO THIS WAS A STUDY FROM A LARGE GROUP OF DIABETIC PATIENTS AND IT WAS FELT THAT JUST DIABETES ALONE CONFERRED LIKE TWICE TWO-FOLD INCREASE. YOU MIGHT ASK IF SOMEBODY HAS CIRRHOSIS, WHAT'S THE RISK OF THEM DEVELOPING PRIMARY LIVER CANCER. SO HERE IS SOME DATA THAT GIVE A CLUE THAT WITH VIRAL INFECTION, IF YOU HAVE CIRRHOSIS, THE CHANCES ARE SEVERAL FOLD GREATER OF DEVELOPING PRIMARY LIVER CANCER THAN IF YOU DON'T. BUT IT ALSO SAYS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE CIRRHOSIS IN ORDER TO DEVELOP PRIMARY LIVER CANCER ASSOCIATED WITH EITHER OF THESE TWO MAJOR VIRUSES. IF YOU HAVE BOTH OF THEM UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE A CARRY OF BOTH THEN THE RISK FACTORS GO UP SUBSTANTIALLY WHETHER YOU HAVE CIRRHOSIS OR NOT. NOW THIS IS AN INTERESTING CUMULATIVE INCIDENCE OF CANCER. IN CIRRHOTIC PATIENTS, AND THERE'S ONE THING THAT'S SORT OF INTERESTING AS SHOWN HERE ON YOUR LEFT, THE TOP ONE. YOU SORT OF WONDER WHY PEOPLE WITH HEPATITIS C IN JAPAN SEEM TO HAVE A MUCH HIGHER RISK OF PRIMARY LIVER CANCER THAT THEY DID IN THE OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. AND YET THEY ARE ALL CARRIERS OR INFECTED WITH HEPATITIS C. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S AN ANSWER TO THAT BUT WE'LL SEE. ON THE OTHER SIDE IS JUST SHOWING RISK FACTORS WITH OTHER FORMS OF CIRRHOSIS, HEMATOMA CHROME TOASTS, THE RISK IS LESS, ALCOHOL IS LESS AND PRIMARY BILLIARY CIRRHOSIS IS PROBABLY JUST SLIGHTLY ABOVE WHAT THE NORMAL POPULATION WOULD BE. IF YOU ADJUST FOR AGE THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT RACE HAS TO DO WITH IT. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER RACE IS THE RIGHT WORD HERE BUT WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE WHITE, BLACK AND OTHER AND THE OTHER IS PRIMARILY CAUCASIANS -- ORIENTALS WHO HAVE A MUCH HIGHER INCIDENCE. RATE. IT'S CONSISTENTLY AFRO AMERICANS AT A MUCH SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER INCIDENCE RATE THAN CAUCASIANS. AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHY THAT HAPPENS. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT CAN BE DONE FOR THIS DISEASE. THE BIG THING THAT CAN BE DONE IS TO PREVENT IT. YOU CAN'T PREVENT THE WHOLE THING BUT THE HEPATITIS B VACCINE, ACCORDING TO THIS AUTHORITY, WAS DESIGNED TO PREVENT A MAJOR HUMAN CANCER. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO THAT. IT TURNED OUT TO DO THAT AND IT WAS HOPED IT WOULD DO IT. AND HE REMAINS THE ONLY SUCH VACCINE IN WIDE USE, WIDE USE. THERE'S A PAT LOAM AWE VIRUS VACCINE BUT THAT'S NOT IN WIDE USE. THAT PREVENTS. >POLY OWE MAINFECTION OF THE UTERUS AND SO FORTH. WHAT HAPPENS IN THE COMMUNITY WHEN YOU HAVE A HIGH FREQUENCY OF HELP TIE PISS B AND YOU VASCULAR -- HEPATITIS B AND YOU VACCINATE PEOPLE AND YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE TIME WITH CANCER. SUCH A COMMUNITY WAS ON THE ISLAND OF TAIWAN WHERE THE FREQUENCY OF HEPATITIS B INFECTION WAS EXTREMELY HIGH. AND IN 1984, THEY STARTED A NATION-WIDE EVERYBODY GOT VACCINATED. AND THEN HOVER OVER A PERIOD OF TIME THEY FOLLOW THE ANNUAL INCIDENCE AND IT PROGRESSIVELY DECREASE. NOW THESE DATA ENDED IN 1994. I HAVE BEEN TOLD, THAT THE INCIDENCE CONTINUES TO DECLINE. BUT THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT VACCINATION AGAINST HEPATITIS B WHICH WAS VERY COMMON IN TAIWAN AND ALMOST UNIVERSAL IN PEOPLE WITH PRIMARY LIVER CANCER, THEIR VACCINATION AGAINST THAT VIRUS PREVENTED IT. PROBABLY THE MOST EFFECTIVE ANTI-CANCER AGENT FOR SOLID TUMORS THAT WE KNOW OF. SO WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT. WELL, SADLY NOT VERY MUCH. AND THIS IS THE AREA OF CHALLENGE AND I'LL END BY POINTING OUT WHAT WE DO KNOW AND WHERE THE CHALLENGING. THE ONLY CURE IS SURGERY WHEN THE POLYMER'S EXTREMELY SMALL. THAT CAN EITHER BE BY RESECTION, REMOVING PART OF A LIVER OR TRANSPLANTING IT. THOSE ARE THE ONLY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE ANYBODY HAS EVER BEEN CURED WITH THE DISEASE. SO THE BIG PROBLEM IS HOW DO YOU DETECT PRIMARY LIVER CANCER EARLY. PARTICULARLY IN INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE UNDERLYING CIRRHOTIC DISEASE. SO THAT'S KIND OF EASY. YOU CAN'T SCREEN A WHOLE POPULATION AT LEAST USING SCANNING AND SONOGRAMS. BUT IF YOU HAVE PATIENTS WHO HAVE THESE CHRONIC VIRAL INFECTIONS AND MAYBE CHRONIC ALCOHOLICS AND CIRRHOSIS AND ALL, A PHYSICIAN WOULD SCREEN THEM AT SOME REGULAR INTERVAL. EXACTLY WHAT THAT INTERVAL SHOULD BE IS A LITTLE BIT UNCLEAR AND HOW FAR YOU SHOULD GO IN USING PARTICULARLY EXPENSIVE TECHNOLOGY FOR SCREENING IS ALSO NOT CLEAR. THAT'S THE AREA. THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF THERE WAS SOME SEROLOGICAL MARKER. OR A GROUP OF MARKERS WHICH COULD BE DONE FROM BLOOD TEST TO PROVIDES A CLUE AS TO WHO SHOULD THEN BE INVESTIGATED MORE FULLY. AND THIS IS AN AREA OF SUBSTANTIAL INVESTIGATION BIT. SO HAS HERE'S A LIST OF THE MARKERS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED AT DIFFERENT TIMES. AND THIS IS BASED UPON EXPERIMENTAL STUDIES AND VARIOUS SOME MOLECULAR BIOLOGY STUDIES, MICRO SATELLITE DNA MARKERS. NOW MICRO RNA'S. AT THE MOMENT A LOT OF THESE ARE BEING EXPLORED AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THERE'S A COMBINATION OF THEM THAT GIVES A CLUE. WHAT DOES IT MEAN IF SOMEBODY HAS ONE OF THESE MARKERS ALL BY ITSELF. THE SITUATION IS COMPLICATED BECAUSE THE CHRONIC LIVER DISEASE ON WHICH THE TUMOR IS INGRAFTED OFTEN ALTERS THE EXPRESSION OF THESE PROTEINS. SO IT'S NOT A CLEAR CUT THING. THIS IS AN AREA THAT REALLY IS A UNION BETWEEN THE NEED OF MORE BASIC SCIENCE TO INVESTIGATE THIS MORE FULLY THAT BIOLOGY OF THE TUMOR. WE'RE GOING TO SKIP OVER THE TGF ONE FOR NOW. SO I TOLD YOU THE TREATMENT FALLS INTO THESE TWO GROUPS, THE CURATIVE AND I'LL SHOW YOU THE RESULTS OF THAT. AND THEN THERE ARE A WHOLE SERIES OF WHAT YOU CALL SEMI SURGICAL ATTEMPTS INJECTING ALCOHOL INTO A TUMOR TO SHRINK IT, TO REDUCE SYMPTOMS, SIDE EFFECTS. THERE'S RADIO FREQUENCY AWK LATION AND MICROWAVE A LATION AND EVEN CRYOAB LATION. -- SO MANY ARE IN THE FORM OF HIGH CONCENTRATION OF ANTI-TUMOR DRUGS. OTHERS ARE AGENTS THAT OCCLUDE THE BLOOD VESSELS. INCLUDING CHEMOTHERAPY. NONE OF THESE ARE VERY SUCCESSFUL ALTHOUGH THEY CAN REDUCE THE SIZE OF TUMORS AND PERHAPS INCREASE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR A WHILE. BUT THEY DON'T AFFECT LIFE SPAN, THAT'S FOR SURE. SO INITIALLY WHEN SMALL LESIONS WERE FOUND, THEY WERE TREATED BY REMOVING A PART OF THE LIVER. NOT THE WHOLE LIVER. AND THE ORIGINAL GUIDELINES WERE THAT THE TUMOR HAD TO BE SMALL, MAYBE NO MORE THAN THREE THAT YOU COULD SEE. THAT'S WHAT YOU CAN SEE. BUT YOU SAW WHAT THE HI TAWLG THAT THOSE -- HIS TAWL HISTOLOGY. YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE BUT THE SURGEONS ARE ABLE TO LIKE DERIVE THE LIVER ASIDE FROM ITS LOBES, THERE ARE LIKE SEGMENTS DEPENDING ON THE BLOOD SUPPLY. SO YOU CAN REMOVE A SEGMENT WEIGHT THE PERSON BLEEDING TO DEATH BECAUSE THE BLOOD SUPPLY IS SPARSE AND THOSE ARE CLEAVAGE AREAS. THOSE ARE PRETTY HIGH TECHNOLOGY SURGERY. IT'S NOT JUST GET IN THERE AND CUT IT OUT. NOW IF YOU REMOVE THE SURGICAL RESECTION, REMOVE ONE LOBE OF THE RECEIVE LIVER WHERE THE TUMOR IS HUH LOOK OVER HERE AT THE FIVE YEAR SURVIVALS. THEY LOOK PRETTY GOOD BUT THESE ARE EARLY CANCERS. THE LIFE SPAN WHEN CANCERS ARE DETECTED THEY ARE NOT ALL AS LETHAL AS THE CASE I MENTIONED TO YOU WITH THE GOLD MINER. SO PATIENTS LIF LIVE FOR THREE, FOUR, TIMES FIVE YEARS. THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT THE CONTROL GROUP IS FOR THIS. NOW THE IMPORTANT THING THOUGH IS ABOUT 70% OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE A RECURRENCE AFTER PARTIAL RESECTION. AND THIS SLIDE SHOWS IT. IT WAS THIS FINDING THAT LED TO THE REALIZATION THAT MAYBE SMALL TUMORS SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE TRANSPLANTING THE WHOLE LIFER BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON'T -- WHOLE LIVER BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW WHERE THESE LITTLE ISLANDS OF TUMORS ARE THAT YOU CAN'T DETECT BY ANY OTHER MEANS. AND THEN AFTER RESECTION, VARIOUS THINGS WERE GIVEN IN AN ATTEMPT TO PREVENT RECURRENCE. NONE OF THEM REALLY HAVE WORKED OUT. SO THEN CAME LIVER TRANSPLANTATION, TRANSPLANT THE WHOLE ORGAN. AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE CONTRAINDICATIONS THAT SURGEONS USE BEFORE DOING IT. THEY ARE PRETTY SELF EXPLANATORY. THE PSYCHOSOCIAL SUPPORT THING IS SOMETHING I DON'T WANT TO COMMENT ABOUT BECAUSE HAVING A LIVER TRANSPLANT IS NOT, YOU HAVE IT, YOU'RE BETTER, EVERYTHING'S THE SAME. ON THE CONTRARY, LIFE IS NOT THE SAME AND IT REQUIRES A WHOLE SUPPORT MECHANISM DRUGS THAT INHIBIT THE IMMUNE RESPONSE. BUT LIFE IS MUCH BETTER THAN HAVING A TUMOR, OF COURSE. AND SO HERE ARE RESULTS OF ACTUARIAL SURVIVALS, FIVE YEARS IN THESE PATIENTS. THE LIVER, THESE ARE CURED. THESE ARE NOT RECURRENTS. I MEAN, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO RECUR FROM. THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HAPPEN IS MAYBE THERE WAS A METASTASIS THAT WAS RECOGNIZED BUT THESE BASICALLY ARE CURES. NOW THE PROBLEM OF COURSE IS THAT THE SCAN HAPPENED OVER NIGHT. THERE'S A HUGE WAITING TIME. YOU MAY BE AWARE THAT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE SUPPLY OF THE LIVER MAY BE I GUESS GLOBALLY IS 5,000 OR IS THAT THE UNITED STATES? I'M NOT SURE. BUT THE POINT IS THERE ARE AT LEAST THREE TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THE WAITING LIST FOR THIS. AND SO IT TAKES A LONG TIME BEFORE YOUR NUMBER COMES UP AND YOU CAN HAVE A LIVER. THERE ARE OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE NEEDED. SO THIS IS THE AREA WHERE PEOPLE DONATE PART OF THEIR LIVER. THE LIVING DONOR, PARTICULARLY I SUPPOSE IF YOU'RE AN IDENTICAL TWIN, THAT'S A PERFECT SITUATION. BUT YOU CAN REMOVE HALF OF A PERSON'S LIVER AND IF YOU'RE WOOZY FOR A WHILE BUT THE LIVER REGENERATES WITHIN A PERIOD OF SEVERAL WEEKS OR SO. AND THIS IS A VERY EFFECTIVE THING BECAUSE IT'S NOT DONE IN SOME EMERGENCY. IF SOMEBODY TYPES ON A HIGHWAY, ON AN ACCIDENT THAT HAS AGREED TO HAVE THEIR LIFER USED FOR TRANSPLANT -- LIVER USED FOR TRANSPLANT, IT HAS TO BE HARVESTED, IT HAS TO BE KEPT ALIVE WHICH CAN ONLY BE DONE FOR A PERIOD OF MAYBE EIGHT OR NINE HOURS. AND THE PATIENT HAS TO BE BROUGHT IN AND EVERYTHING IS, YOU KNOW. AND THAT'S QUITE DIFFERENT FROM A LIVING DONOR WHERE YOU WALK INTO THE HOSPITAL AND HAVE AN APPOINTMENT AND CROSS YOUR FINGERS. THESE ARE THE RESULTS OF THESE DIFFERENT A BLATEIVE THERAPIES WHICH CONTROL THINGS TO SOME EXTENT BUT NOT VERY MUCH. IT HAS BEEN UNREWARDING FOR THESE DISEASES FOR REASONS YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT. THEN THERE ARE A WHOLE SERIES OF SYSTEMIC THERAPIES. THE ONE RIGHT AT THE TOP -- WHICH YOU'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT FROM JEAN PIERRE. THIS IS A UNIQUE DRUG WHICH WAS THE ONLY DRUG THAT WAS LICENSED BY THE FDA TO TREAT PRIMARY CANCER OF THE LIVER. IT WAS DEVELOPED TO THE TREATMENT OF RENAL CELL CARCINOMA. WHAT MAKES IT UNIQUE IS THAT THE PROPERTIES OF THE DRUG ARE THAT IT INHIBITS A VARIETY OF TYROSINE AND SOME SYRIAN KINASES. IT'S THE MAC KINASE PATH WAY. SO THAT'S WHAT WILL HOPEFULLY BE A SERIES OF DRUGS THAT ARE TARGETED TO INHIBIT ONE OR MORE OF THE MANY PATHWAYS WHICH ARE DISTURBED IN THIS DISEASE. IN THE ONE PUBLISHED CLINICAL TRIAL IN THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, SURVIVAL WAS INCREASED BY A MATTER OF ABOUT THREE TO FOUR MONTHS. BUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE HAS NOT CHANGED. AND IT'S A STEP IN HOPEFULLY A RIGHT DIRECTION. NOW THIS IS THE SAD FACT. THAT ALMOST NO MATTER WHAT'S DONE, THE SURVIVAL WITH PRIMARY LIVER CANCER IS NOT GOOD. AND YOU CAN SEE HERE BY FOUR YEARS THE VAST MAJORITY OF PATIENTS HAVE DIED. AND THIS IS IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THEY HAVE UNDERLYING CIRRHOSIS WHICH COMPLICATES THE SITUATION OR NOT. SO THIS IS REALLY A BAD DISEASE. IT'S PREVENTIBLE. SO WHAT HAVE I SAID FROM THE CLINICAL PERSPECTIVE. THAT THE CHANGING GEOGRAPHIC DISTRIBUTION IS LARGELY DUE TO THE CHANGING DISTRIBUTION OF HEPATITIS C. THE MIGRATION FROM THE ORIENT TO THE UNITED STATES, CASE THREE FROM THE ONE THAT I GAVE YOU. THE DIAGNOSIS IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE CURABLE LESIONS ARE ASYMPTOMATIC. PROBABLY ABOUT HALF OF THE CASES CAN BE PREVENTED BY VACCINATION AGAINST HEPATITIS B VIRUS. FOR THOSE WHO ARE HEPATITIS B POSITIVE OR, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE DESTINED TO BECOME I GUESS. THE ONLY CURE IS LIVER TRANSPLANTATION FOR SMALL LESIONS. NOW, THIS IS JUST THE CURRENT STATUS OF CLINICAL FRUSTRATION. WHAT GIVES GREAT HOPE IS THE ENORMOUS INTEREST AND EXCELLENT STUDIES IN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE MOLECULAR BASIS OF CARCINOGENESIS AND THE ROLE OF THE VIRUS. THERE WERE STUDIES SOME OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PRESENTED HERE AT OUR COURSE, PARTICULARLY BY -- FERGUSON, YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE VIDEO ARCHIVE. AS TO MECHANISMS OF CARCINOGENESIS IN THIS DISEASE. WHY ARE, WHY IS THIS TUMOR INVARIABLY DRUG RESISTENT. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JEAN PIERRE IS GOING TO ADDRESS. IT COULD VERY WELL BE THAT EVEN THOUGH THE PATIENTS NEVER HAD AN ANTICANCER DRUG, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT MOST ANTI-CANCER DRUGS ARE EITHER PRODUCTS OF BACTERIA OR THEY ARE PLANTS OR THEY ARE SOMETHING ELSE AND THE FUNCTION OF THE LIVER OF COURSE WAS TO TAKE ALL THAT STUFF, SOME'S GOOD, SOME'S GARBAGE THAT WE EAT AND IT COMES AND ABSORBED THROUGH THE MORTAL SYSTEM AND IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE LIVER. THE LIVER GETS A HEAVY DOSE OF THESE POLY CYCLIC COMPOUND PROBABLY EVERY DAY OF OUR OUR LIVES. SO MAYBE THAT'S THE SOURCE OF THE PRIOR DRUG ADMINISTRATION. THAT IS CONJECTURAL. ARE THESE KREAL CELLS GENOMICLY IDENTICAL IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE LIVER. WHAT DIFFERENTIATES THOSE TUMORS THAT DO WEIRD THINGS LIKE GROW BLOOD VESSELS. THEY ALL DON'T DO IT. WHY DO SOME DON'T METASTASIZE WIDELY TO OTHER ORGANS BUT EXTENSIVELY WITHIN THE LIVER. WHAT ACCOUNTS FOR THEIR UNUSUAL PHENOTYPE AND DOES THAT INFLUENCE THE PROGNOSIS. SO UNDERSTANDABLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE OF HIGH THROUGHPUT ANALYSIS, WHETHER IT'S LOOKING AT NOW MICRO RNAs OR MESSENGER RNAs OR INDIVIDUAL PROTEINS, GENE EXPRESSION. ALL OF THESE TECHNIQUES INCLUDING THE TAB LAWNICS IS BEING BROUGHT TO BEAR ON THESE DISEASE. AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL BE THE AVENUE BY WHICH GOOD THINGS WILL HAPPEN BUT OTHERWISE IS A VERY DISMAL PROPOSITION. SO TO DISCUSS THIS, WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE JEAN PIERRE GILLET WHO IS IN THE MICRO -- LABORATORY AT THE NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE. JEAN PIERRE GOT HIS PH.D. IN BELGIUM AND HAS BEEN AT NIH FOR FIVE YEARS NOW. AND WAS RECENTLY GIVEN A FORMAL APPOINTMENT. AND HE HAS DONE SOME REALLY ELEGANT WORK WHICH HE'S GOING TO TELL US ABOUT AND DISCUSS THE BROADER PICTURE OF THE CONTRIBUTION OF HIGH THROUGHPUT STUDIES TO THIS DISEASE. IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, PARTICULARLY COURT ONES, WE CAN CONSIDER THEM -- SHORT ONES, WE CAN CONSIDER THEM AT THIS TIME. >> [INDISCERNIBLE] >> YOU HAVE BEEN TO ENOUGH OF THESE DISCUSSIONS WHERE THEY HAD SESSIONS ON HEPATITIS C BY EXPERTS FROM THE NIH TO KNOW THAT IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED VIRUS. AND IT HAS SO FAR DEFIED VACCINE DEVELOPMENT. I REFER YOU TO LOOK AT THAT MATERIAL WHICH IS ON THE LEFT. >> JUST ONE COMMENT ABOUT WHY JAPAN HAS HIGHER RATES OF CARCINOMA THAN THE U.S. IF YOU DIDN'T MARK YOUR -- YOU CAN SHOW THAT THE VIRUS HAS BEEN IN THE JAPANESE POPULATION LONGER. 30 YEARS LONGER THEIR GENOTYPE IS INVENTED IN THE 9 1930'S AND 40'S WHILE WE WERE AT WAR AND WE DIDN'T TARGET THE VIRUS UNTIL 1968 WITH THE DRUG EPIDEMIC. SO OVER THE NEXT TWO DECADES OR THREE HE CA DECADES WE'RE GOING TO CATCH UP WITH JAPAN UNLESS WE TREAT PEOPLE. >> HOW DO YOU THINK THEY GOT IT DURING THE WAR. >> IT'S PRETTY CLEAR NOW THEY GOT IT FROM NEEDLES. THEY GOT IT FROM MASS IMMUNEIZATIONS BUT MOSTLY THEY GOT IT FROM SHOOTING UP FEMALES -- ANT AT THAMAMPHETAMINES SHOOTING UP WITH NEEDLES. I'M SURE IT'S SPREAD AMONG THE MILITARY WHICH WAS ALMOST THE ENTIRE MALE POPULATION. >> SO DO YOU THINK THAT THAT CURVE THEN IS GOING TO BE TRANSPOSED FROM THE ORIENT TO NORTH AMERICA SUCH THAT OUR POPULATION WILL REPLICATE THE RISING. >> IF YOU LOOK INTO JAPAN'S CURVE, IT STARTS GOING UP. IF YOU GO AGE-AGE DISTRIBUTION CURVE, IT'S AROUND AGE 60 IS WHEN IT STARTS TO TAKE OFF. IN MOST OF THE CASES WHEN PEOPLE WERE 70 AND 80 YEARS OLD AND THEY GOT IT IN THEIR 20'S OR 3078S. IT'S THE -- 20'S OR 307S. IT WAS IN INFECTION OR DIMINISHING OF THE OLD AGE. THE U.S. CURVE IS PEAKING AROUND AGE 45 OR SO, 49. SO WE'RE ABOUT 30 YEARS BEHIND THEM. AND ALL WILL CATCH UP, AND WE ARE CATCHING UP ALREADY, YOU'LL SEE IT. JIECIAL>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. >> JOB. > -- [INDISCERNIBLE]>> YES, THEY WERE ALL KAMAKAZI PILOTS, ETCETERA. >> THANK YOU. GOING BACK TO A GRAPH THAT YOU SHOWED EARLIER HOW THERE'S SHARP INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF CASES, HOW MUCH IS IT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH THIS TYPE OF CANCER AND HOW MUCH IS IT THAT WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY NOW THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DETECT THOSE CANCERS AT THE EARLY STAGE AS OPPOSED TO THE SAME RATE EARLIER BUT NOW WE HAVE BETTER TECHNOLOGY. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION. >> I'M SORRY I CAN'T QUITE FOLLOW THE QUESTION. >> [INDISCERNIBLE] >> THE DIAGNOSTIC TESTS FOR HEPATITIS C AND B ARE READILY AVAILABLE. THAT ASPECT OF IT IS NOT HIGH TECHNOLOGY ANYMORE. >> THE REASON WHY OR THE REASONS WHY I ASK THESE QUESTIONS IS BECAUSE YOU SAID DOES IT HAVE DOMINANT SYMPTOMS, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO DETECT WHEN YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF CANCER SO I FIGURE THAT MAYBE IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LITTLE BIT AND THAT WE DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH. AND YOU ALSO MENTIONED THE FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT MANY MARKERS OR WE DO HAVE MARKERS BUT THERE'S NUT ONE THAT'S VERY -- NOT ONE THAT'S VERY SPECIFIC FOR THIS TYPE OF CANCER. >> DO YOU WANT TO ANSWER THAT? >> [INDISCERNIBLE] TUMORS WILL JUST PROGRESS UNTIL I THINK THE ACTUAL INCIDENCE WILL BE THE SAME, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW SOON YOU FIND IT. SO IT'S A REAL INCREASE IN A NUMBER OF CASES AND THE NUMBER OF CASES ARE INCREASING BECAUSE PARTICULARLY WITH HEPATITIS C BECAUSE HEPATITIS C BECAME EPIDEMIC IN THE 1960'S AND 70'S AND NOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE 40, 50 YEARS DOWN THE PIKE AND THEY'RE STARTING TO GET THE CANCERS. >> I THINK FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW HARVEY IS A REAL EXPERT IN HEPATITIS C, HAVING BEEN ONE OF THE DISCOVERERCOVERERS OF HELHEPATITIS B. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT? OKAY, JEAN PIERRE. >> >> GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE. I DIVIDED THIS PRESENTATION IN TWO SHORTS THE FIRST PART IS THE MECHANICKIC USE -- OF CANCER AND THE SECOND PART IS THE NEW STRATEGIC TO REVERSE -- RESISTANCE IN HEPATO -- CARCINOMA. YOU WILL FILED OUT IT CAN BE APPLIED TO ANY TYPE OF TUMORS. THE MAIN GOAL OF OUR RESEARCH IN THE LAB IS TO UNDERSTAND WHY SOME CANCERS DO NOT -- RELAPSE AFTER TREATMENT. IN ORDER TO FIND WAYS TO REVERSE THIS SO-CALLED DRUG RESISTANCE AND THEREFORE IMPROVE THE RESPONSE OF PATIENTS TO TREATMENTS. SO THE REASON -- CLASSES OF DRUGS GIVE ME A DRUG, I WILL GIVE YOU THE MECHANISMS FOR RESISTANCE. THE TRICKY PAR IS CELLS BECOME RESISTENT TO -- MECHANICALLY UNRELATED CLUGZ IN ADDITION TO THE DRUGS INITIALLY ADMINISTERED. IT'S KNOWN AS DRUG RESISTANCE. SO THERE ARE MULTIPLE MECHANISMS AND I WON'T GO HERE INTO DETAILS, I JUST WANT TO SIDE SERCHLSEVERAL MECHANISMS THAT INCLUDES DRUG INCREASE -- OR INCREASED DRUG -- RESTORATION, INCREASE EXPIRATION OF PHASE ONE AND PHASE TWO METABOLISM. INCREASE EXPRESSION OF DNA REPAIR GENES. APOPTOSIS DIVISION AND SO FORTH. IT'S REALLY A NO PLUS TASK TO OVERCOME DRUG RESISTANCE AND IT'S WELL-KNOWN THAT -- WHICH IS PROBABLY THE MOST STUDIED DRUG TRANSPORTER IS CORRELATED WITH AN ADVERSE OUTCOME IN -- LEUKEMIA. NUMEROUS CLINICAL TRIALS HAVE BEEN PERFORMED TO TRY TO MODULATE THIS TRANSPORTER. THE LAST ONE TRY -- AND MOST OF THOSE TRIALS HAVE FAILED. IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE SEEN COMMENTARY IN BLOOD THAT USES THE EXPRESSION FROM THE NATIVE AMERICAN THAT SAYS WHEN YOU ARRIVE A DEAD HORSE IT'S WISER TO DISMOUNT IT. IN THAT COMMENTARY IT SUGGESTS THAT WE SHOULD SOMEHOW GIVE UP THOSE KIND OF -- AND PUT ALL THE EFFORT AND RESOURCES TO OTHER STRATEGIES. SO YES IT SO DIFFICULT TO TRANSLATE TO THE CLINIC WHAT WE HAVE FOUND THOSE LAST 30 YEARS IN THE LAB. SO THE QUESTIONS WE'VE TRIED TO ANSWER IN THE LAB IS THE REAL RELEVANCE OF GENE EXPRESSION HAS BEEN FALLING THROUGH CANCER CELLS FOR -- TO DO THIS WE NEED TO BEAR IN MIND VERY IMPORTANT THING, IS THAT MOST OF THE GENES BELONG TO HOMOLOGOUS GENE FAMILIES. SO THE VERY FIRST QUESTIONS THAT WE NEED TO ANSWER TO IS WHAT'S THE BEST ASSAY TO ASSESS THIS. AND FEW YEARS AGO, WE HAVE THE CURRENT GENE EXPRESSION FOR FINDING ASSAYS AND I WANTED TO EL ADMINISTRATE THE POINT HERE WITH THE EXPRESSION OF ABCB1 IN THE NCI60 PAM DETECTED BY THREE TECHNIQUES. WHOLE GENOME MACRO RAY AND TWO -- PTR USING TWO DIFFERENT CHEMISTRIES, SICKE CYBER GREEN AND -- WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS THE -- WHICH IS NOT REALLY A SURPRISE. BUT WHEN YOU COMPARE BOTH REACT PCR TECHNIQUE YOU SEE AND THE TAKE HOME MESSAGE IS THAT USING -- PCR, YOU CAN BE MUCH MORE SENSITIVE AND SPECIFIC THAN THE OTHER TECHNIQUES. THE OTHER QUESTION WE TRIED TO ANSWER IS THAT WELL OKAY, IF WE START DOING THIS KIND OF THINGS, STUDYING GENE EXPRESSION PROFILE, CAN WE REALLY BELIEVE THAT WE CAN FIND PROTEIN EXPRESS AND CAN WE REALLY BELIEVE THAT THIS PROTEIN IS FUNCTIONAL. SO AGAIN WE USE THE NCI60 BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW -- DATA BASE OF LI BIOLOGICAL FORMATION -- FOR THE OLD TRANSPORTERS USING -- QRTPCR AND WE TRIED TO REFINE WITH RESUPPOSITORY THAT WAS PUBLISHED BY OUR -- REPOSITORY THAT WAS PUBLISH BY OUR LAB A YEW YEARS AGO TO SCREEN OUT ANTI-CANCER DRUGS IN THE EARLY STAGES OF DRUG DISCOVERY TO SCREEN OUT POTENTIAL -- OF MAJOR ABC TRANSPORTERS. SO WE DID THAT, WE CORRELATED THE IC50 VALUES WITH THE ABC TRANSPORTER EXPRESSION. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE -- IF YOU GET THE STRONG CORRELATION WHEN THESE -- BETWEEN THOSE TWO VALUES THEN YOU HAVE -- AND ACTUALLY WE WERE ABLE TO REFINE THAT REPOSITORY. AND THIS IS ONE EXAMPLE HERE. SO FROM THE MESSENGER RNA EXPRESSION LEVEL, WE WERE ABLE ACTUALLY WHO FINE PROTON SUBSTRATES OF THE TRANSPORTERS. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE FOR -- A WHICH IS SUBSTRATE OF ABC -- USING A PAIR OF -- ONE EXPRESSING AN EMPTY VICTOR AND ONE EXPRESSING THE TRANSPORTER OF INTEREST. HERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE FOR ANOTHER TRANSPORTER. SO AT LEAST FOR THE TRANSPORTER WE CAN ASSUME THAT IF WE DID THAT WITH THE MESSENGER RNA WE BELIEVE WE WILL FIND THE PROTEIN AND THAT THIS TRANSPORTER COULD BE FUNCTIONAL. SO WE COME BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION. WHAT'S THE CLINICAL -- SO WE DECIDED TOOK WITH THE PACK MAC CHEMISTRY AND WE WENT BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD -- OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS AND WE LISTED ALL THE GENES THAT SOME WERE RELATED TO DRUG RESISTANCE AND WE NEED TO REMEMBER TWO THINGS. THE FIRST ONE MOST OF THOSE GENES COME FROM STUDIES OF -- COUNTERCELLS. THE SECOND THING IS THAT THOSE GENES CAN MAYBE ADD RESISTANCE EAT INTRINSICALLY OR ACQUIRED -- EITHER INTRINSICALLY OR ACQUIRED. AND THOSE GENES TO BE RESISTANCE IN A PARTICULAR -- TYPES OF CANCER. SO AS AN INTEREST IN PROTEIN RESISTANCE TO STUDY THIS KIND OF RESISTANCE CHEMICALLY WITH CHILDREN WHO HAVE CANCER. SO WHAT WE DID IS THAT WE STUDIED THE EXPRESSION OF 400 GREENS -- IN 80 PRIMARY SERVICE -- CAS CARCINOMA IN BLUE AND WE STUDIED THOSE GENES IN ABOUT 40 EFFICIENT SYMPTOMS ORIGINATED FROM THE SAME CANCER. I DO NOT SHOW IT HERE BECAUSE IT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THE PRESENTATION THAT WE FOUND A GENE SIGNATURE THAT PREDICTS SURVIVAL OF THESE PATIENTS. SO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO IS TO IDENTIFY MODEL TO PLAY WITH THESE GENES IN ORDER TO TRY MODULATING THE RESISTANCE OF THAT CANCER. SO WHAT WE DID, WE SCREENED VARIOUS OVARIAN CANCER CELL LINES -- THOSE CANCER LINES WERE EITHER IN 2D OR 3D USING DIFFERENT SCAFFOLDS. THERE WAS ALSO IN VIVO -- AND THEN WE PERFORMED -- TRYING TO SEE WHAT KIND OF MODEL WOULD CLUSTER WITHIN THE CLINICAL CIRCLES. WE MADE THE STRIKING OBSERVATION THAT NONE OF THE E VARIANCE CANCER CELL LINES THAT WE TESTED MATCHED ANY CLUSTER WITH ANY CLINICAL SAMPLES. SO AT THIS STAGE, I -- LET'S TRY TO ADD THE INFORMATION GENERATED FROM THE OTHER CANCER CELL LINES OF THE NCI60 THAT BELONGS TO THE CANCER TIN. SO THEN WE SHOULD SEE A THIRD GROUP ON THE LEFT OR RIGHT OR WHATEVER, A THIRD GROUP WITH ALL THESE CELL LINES THAT WOULD CLUSTER FROM THE OVERALL CANCER AND APART FROM THE CLINICAL CANCER. AND THOSE ARE THE CELL LINES REPRESENTED WITH MAGENTA. AND STRIKINGLY WE FOUND THAT ALL THE CELL LINES EITHER WERE IN VITRO OR IN VIVO. THERE'S MORE RESEMBLANCE TO THE CENTERS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO MODEL. INTERESTINGLY SO BEFORE I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, THIS UPREGULATION ACROSS ALL CANCER TYPE IS CONSISTENT WITH THE IDEA THAT EXPRESSION OF THE GENES THAT WE ARE STUDYING ARE NECESSARY FOR THE CELL LINES TO TRY IN THEIR IN VITRO -- IN OTHER WORDS THE ESTABLISHED CANCER CELL LINES ARE ALREADY HIGHLY SELECTED FOR THE EXPRESSION OF GENES ASSOCIATED WITH DRUG RESISTANCE. WE MADE THE SIMILAR OBSERVATION FOR ALL THE TYPE OF -- INCLUDING BLASTOMA, BREAST CANCER, MICRO DISSECTED MELANOMA WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT'S USING FEWER CENTERS THAN THE PRESENT STUDY. WE MADE A SIMILAR OBSERVATION WITH LEUKEMIA SAYING THAT THIS KIND OF OBSERVATION IS NOT CONFINED TO SOLID TUMORS. SO IN CONCLUSION, WE NEED BETTER MODELS TO STUDY DRUG RESISTANCE MECHANISM THAT MORE CLOSELY MIMIC THE IN VIVO CANCER C -- SO TO AVOID RADICAL CHANGES IN PROFILES -- AND THIS IS AN ONGOING RESEARCH IN THE LAB. SO WE HAVE SEVERAL LEADS. FIRST WE SUGGEST TO WORK WITH PRIMARY TUMOR. WE SHOULD GO WITH SHORT-TERM CULTURE. LOW OXYGEN TENSION EXAMINE WE SHOULD WORK WITH A MORE CONTROLLED MEDIUM. THE MOST IMPORTANT OBSERVATION THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER IS THAT TUMOR IN THE BODY ARE SLOW GROWING AS OPPOSED TO THE CULTURE OF CANCER CELLS IN THE LAB THAT ARE GROWING QUICKLY. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IN THE PRO PARAMETERS WE NEED TO STUDY AND REFLECT. SO IF IT'S REALLY THE SAME OBSERVATION FOR THE LIVER CANCER. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EXPRESSION PROFILE OF HEPATOCYTES, WHAT OBSERVATION YOU CAN MAKE IS THAT THE SIMILAR GENE EXPRESSION PROFILES OF NORMAL HEPATOCYTES AND NORMAL RESIST ELSE IENCE IS STRIKING. YOU CAN SEE HEPATOCYTES OVEREXPRESSED THE GENES -- DRUG RESISTANCE, THESE ARE DRUG TRANSPORTERS, UPTAKE TRANSPORTERS, NOT TO MENTION CYTOKINE -- MANY HAVE USED THIS ANALOGY TO DID JECKL DR. JECKLE AND MR. HYDE. IT'S A GREAT GUIDE FOR THE BODY BUT WHEN A -- VASCULAR GENE EXPRESSION PATTERN RENDERS IT TO RESIST ANY KIND OF CHEMICAL TREATMENT. THERE IS POSITIVE RESEARCH ON THE ENTRUSTABILITY OF HCC FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF -- DRUG RESISTANCE. THERE ARE A LOT OF STUDIES THAT FOCUS ON PRODUCTIVE OF GENE SIGNATURES OVER THE SURVIVAL OF PATIENTS WITH HCCN. AT THE NC IMPLET W CI WE HAVE WORLDWIDE EXPORTS -- ATTENTION IS ALSO BEING DIRECTED TOWARDS GENE SIGNATURES ASSOCIATED WITH PATHOGENIC PROCESS AS WE INTRODUCE IT. AND HERE WE HAVE REQUISITE MECHANISMS IN CLINICAL SAMPLES OF NORMAL LIVER AND -- CARCINOMA WITH HBB. SO WE WERE FORTUNATE TO COLLABORATE WITH -- WHO GAVE US ACCESS TO THE REPOSITORY. AND WE HAVE CHOSEN TO REINTERROGATE ABOUT 40 SAMPLES OF LIFER CANCER. CANCER -- LIVER CANCER. THEY WERE CHARACTERIZED BY A GROUP USING -- AND USING THE EXPRESSION PROFILE THEY WERE ABLE TO DISCRIMINATE THOSE PATIENTS IN TWO GROUPS WHEREAS ON THE SURVIVAL. SO THE FIRST QUESTION WE ASKED WAS WHILE WE HAVE 400 GENES, DO THEY PROVIDE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN THOSE THREE ENTITIES. AND THEY DO. FURTHER ANALYSIS WITH THE 45 GENE SIGNATURE THAT WE VALIDATED USING AN INDEPENDENT COHORT OF 53 PATIENTS. SO WE CAN PREDICT THE OVERALL SURVIVAL OF THESE PATIENTS WITH 45 GENE SIGNATURE. SO THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF PAPERS THAT WE POST GENE SIGNATURES. SO FROM THAT, WHAT DO YOU DO. SO AS I SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING, ONE OF THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF THIS WORK IS TO REVERSE DRUG RESISTANCE AND FOR THAT WE NEED TO PINPOINT NEW TREATMENTS. AND WE HAVE AN INTERESTING PAPER IN SCIENCE A FEW YEARS AGO ABOUT THE CONNECTIVITY. VERY BRIEFLY AS I CANNOT GET INTO TOO MUCH DETAILS HERE, WHAT THE CONNECTIVITY MAP PROVIDES YOU IS GAM GENE EXPRESSION PROFILE AND TWO PROVIDE AN ALGORITHM THAT COMPARES THE DIRECTION OF GENE EXPRESSION CHANGE BETWEEN ONE TO ANOTHER IS THE CHANGE DO TO DRUG TREATMENT. SO IN OUR STUDY, WE WERE INTERESTED IN FINDING DRUGS THAT CAN POTENTIALLY INCREASE THE SENSITIVITY OF GROUP PATIENTS WHO ARE MEASURES WITH SURVIVOR TO DIRECT TREATMENTS. SO THE PURPOSE WAS WHEN WE, WHEN COMPARED TO THE GROUP A PATIENTS, THE GENE EXPRESSIONS FOR THE PATIENTS OF SURVIVAL CAN BE CONSIDERED TO BE INDICATIVE OF DRUG SENSITIVITY. SO USING THIS GENE EXPRESSION PROFILE, WE INTERROGATED THIS DATA BASE AND WE WERE GOING TO FIND DRUGS GROW FLAVONE THAT MIGHT REVERSE THE EXPRESSION PROFILE FROM POOR RESPONDERS TO GOOD RESPONDERS. SO EVER WE COULDN'T FIND ANY PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO PLAY THE GUINEA PIGS. SO WE WENT BACK TO THE BENCH AND WE INTERROGATED ABOUT 20 TO 40 CELL LINES THAT WE FELT WERE REFLT. REFLT -- RELEVANT. USING THE GENE SIGNATURE WE WERE ABLE TO FIND CELL LINES ACTUALLY AS OPPOSED TO THE OTHER CANCER I'VE SHOWN CAN CLUSTER WITHIN THE CLINICAL SAMPLES. SO WE PICKED TWO CELL LINES THAT WERE PLC AND -- THAT WE TREATED WITH A DOSE O SUBLETHAL DOSE OF THE COMPONENTS WE FOUND MANY WHEN WE INTERROGATED THIS 45 GENE SIGNATURE, WE WERE ACTUALLY, SO WE WERE ABLE TO OBSERVE THAT THESE WERE TREATMENT REVERSE THE EXPRESSION PROFILE OF THE CELL LINES FROM THAT OF POOR OVERALL SURVIVAL TO THAT OF GOOD OVERALL SURVIVAL. SO NOW WE CAN REVERSE THE EXPRESSION AND SO PATIENTS MIGHT LIVE A LITTLE BIT LONGER. BUT THAT'S THE TREATMENT, THAT'S THIS REVERSAL, RESENSITIZED THE TUMOR. AND I SAY YES, IT DOES. SO WHAT WE DID IS THAT WE FIRST TREATED THE CELL LINE WITH THE REVERSAL AGENTS, EITHER 60G OR -- WE ALSO TREATED WITH CONVENTIONAL CHEMOTHERAPY ALONE SUCH AS -- FOR INSTANCE AND THEN WE COMBINE THE TREATMENT. SO WE PRETREATED FIRST FOR SIX HOURS, REMOVED THE MEDIUM AND THEN TREATED WITH THE CONVENTIONAL AGENTS. AND WE FIND THAT ACTUALLY THIS PRETREATMENT SENSITIZED THOSE CELLS TO PROMOTIONAL THERAPY. THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE TO SOME, TEMPSOME -- TO SOME EXTENT IT WORKS AND HERE WITH SOME RAFENIB. WE TRIED TO IDENTIFY THE MECHANISM OF FRACTION THAT WORKS. SO I PUT ASIDE THAT THESE DRUGS COULD ACT AS HISTONE ACETYL ASE INHIBITORS. SO WE HAVE THE -- SO WHAT WE DID IS THAT WE COMPARE THE UNTREATED CELL LINE TO TREATED CELL LINES WITH THE THREE AGENTS AND ALSO WITH CONTROL WERE KNOWN IN THE INHIBITORS WHICH ARE -- SO YOU CAN SEE THAT ACTUALLY THE TREATMENT INCREASES THE AWE SETTLATION STATUS OF HISTONE NOT AS DRAMATICALLY AS THE PEPTIDE FOR INSTANCE BUT IT DOES. THIS IS THE SAME RESULT, SAME OBSERVATION WITH ANOTHER CELL LINE AND WITH THE THIRD ONE. SO YOU SEE AN INCREASE MODERATE THAN AN INCREASE IN ARTICULATION STATUS OF HISTONE H3. SO IF THERE IS AN INCREASE IN THE CIRCULATION, WE COULD THINK THAT WE SHOULD AWK VERV OBSERVE AS WELL A CHANGE IN THE MEDIATION STUDIES. SO WE DID NOT DO ANY VERY EXPENSIVE -- EXPERIMENTS TO STUDY MANIPULATION STUDIES. WHAT WE DID IS THAT WE FIRST LOOKED AT THE REGION OF THE 45 GENE TO SEE HOW MUCH, HOW MANY OF THEM SOMETIMES CPGI AND 32 OUT OF THE 45 GENE SIGNATURE. SO WE USED THE OLD VERY EFFICIENT METHOD THAT UPON TWO ENZYME -- AND WE FOLLOWED THIS UP WITH -- HERE IS AN ADMINISTRATION WITH FIVE CLINICAL SAMPLES. WHAT WE DID IS WE HAD STUDY OF 12 GENES IN TUMOR CELLS AND IN THE MUCH SURROUNDING LIVER. AND WE COULDN'T SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN THE METHYLATION STATUS BETWEEN THE SURROUNDING LIVER WHICH WE WOULD HAVE SAW THAT IT WOULD BE UNMETHYLATED WHILE THE TUMOR IS MET LATED. THESE ARE THE TECHNIQUES FOR THE STUDIES. WHAT ABOUT THE CELL LINES THAT WE USED. SO THERE ARE THREE CELL LINES THAT CLUSTERED WITH PATIENTS WITH GOOD SURVIVAL AND MOSTLY THEY ARE AT LEAST FOR THE 12 GENES AGAIN WE ARE UNMETHYLATED. FOR PATIENTS WITH SURVIVAL STILL WE OBSERVED UNMETHYLATION. THERE ARE SOME GENES THAT ARE -- AND FOR THOSE GENES WHEN YOU TREAT THE CELL LINE WITH EITHER PEPTIDE THAT'S CONTROL 6TG, YOU CAN SEE SLIDE DECREASE IN THE METHYLATION STUDIES. SO THE MAIN CONCLUSIONS OF THAT WORK IS THAT WE IDENTIFY THREE COMPONENTS THAT ADD THE ABILITY TO COME FROM THE OTHER GENE EXPRESSION PROFILE CELL LINES FROM ONE MUCH IN MEASURES WITH POOR OVERALL SURVIVAL TO ONE WITH GOOD SURVIVAL CHARACTERS BY INCREASING HISTONE AWE SETTLE LATION RESULTING THE SENSITIZATION OF TUMOR CELLS. THIS IS GENE EXPRESSION PROFILING AND CONNECTIVE THITY DATA WHERE DISEASE WHERE NO EFFECTIVE TREATMENT. MORE IMPORTANTLY THE CURRENT STUDY WITH THESE A NEW STRATEGIC TO SENSITIZE ANY TYPE OF RETRACT RETRACT -- REFRACTORY CONFERENCE -- I WOULD LIKE TO THANK -- WHO I HAVE BEEN WORKING IN THE PAST SIX YEARS -- WITH PROVIDING US CLINICAL SAMPLES AND FROM BEING A GREAT SUPPORT -- WHO HAS BEEN EXTREMELY -- AND THANKS FOR YOUR ATTENTION. [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THESE ARE SOME EXCITING OBSERVATIONS, THE STUDY OF CELL LINES [INDISCERNIBLE] >> WOULD [INDISCERNIBLE] HOW MANY OF THEM CARROTS T CORRESPONDS TO THE [INDISCERNIBLE] >> MOST OF THESE GENES I WOULD SAY. SO WE STUDIED TO BE 380 GENES. POST OF THEM ARE EXPRESSED IN THE NCI -- AND WE DID NOT ONLY STUDY NCI60 PANEL BUT WE, TO INTERGATE DRUG RESISTANCE, WE USED ADDITIONAL OVARIAN CANCER MODELS ISOLATED EITHER FROM PATIENTS WHO UNDERWENT BEEN TREATMENT AND ISOLATED SOME PATIENTS WHO RELAPSE AFTER TREATMENT WHO DID NOT ON THE FIRST CHEMO. SO IT'S NCI -- >> A SHORT QUESTION. SO WHAT IN THE LIVER MAKES THEM SO MULTIDRUG RESISTANT BECAUSE PROBABLY THIS IS SAVING US FROM THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE [INDISCERNIBLE] >> IT'S THE ORGAN, SO IT EXPRESSES A LOT OF THE GENES THAT WE LISTED FROM THE -- MAYBE DRUG RESISTANT. AND BASICALLY LIVER IS THERE TO PROTECT US AGAINST -- SO THAT'S HOW WE CAN EXPLAIN IT. >> WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING BEFORE THERE'S AN INTERESTING PAPER IN THIS WEEK'S ISSUE OF HEPITOLOGY SAY THAT THE MICRO RNA THAT REGULAR LAY THESE ABC TRANSPORTERS WHICH ARE UP THEMSELVES UPREGULATED IN MANY PRIMARY LIVER CANCER PATIENTS, THE MY RO MICRO RNA'S ARE ACTUALLY SUPRESSED. AND SO THIS IS A STUDY WHICH SUGGESTS THAT CIRCULATING MICRO RNA'S MAY ACTUALLY BE EFFECTIVE IN TURN SUPPRESSING THE OVER EXPRESSION OF THE ABC TRANSPORTS. >> [INDISCERNIBLE] >> I AGREE, YES. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY. LISTEN JEAN PIERRE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THAT WAS VERY EXCITING WORK.